We'll start in just a few minutes as Lucas Navicas from Proteus Finance joins us and Gabrielle is here Gabrielle.
We have to have you here just waiting for Lucas to join in through the Proteus Finance Account.
We should be starting in just a few minutes.
I think Lucas should be coming in in just a minute or so.
This is starting as a phone again.
and Roro, Gladys could make it as well.
Hope you guys are doing well today.
in whichever part of the world you're in.
This is our fourth Twitter space and this is getting to be a lot of fun actually. Create learnings and interactions with various people in the DeFi and the crypto ecosystem.
Shortest finances joined. Hi guys, how's it going, Lucas here? Hi Lucas, how are you? Really good, really good. What about your ahold?
Thank you so much and thank you so much for taking the time out and great to have you here. Sure, awesome.
Great. So yeah, it's 4 o'clock and for about 4 o'clock my time is 12 30 PM CET in your time zone. So let's just get started. Great to be here. This is our fourth Twitter spaces chat with eMoney. Thank you guys for tuning in.
and Rahul Jaffiani, managing partnerships and business development for E-Money. E-Money is a project that's built on the Cosmos chain and issues of fully collateralized and asset back to European stablecoin. We've started out with the E-Uro and soon we're going to follow it up with the East Swiss franc.
The Swiss franc, as well as the Scandinavian currency, is the Swedish crooner, the Norwegian crooner and the Danish crooner. Most importantly, we are very compliant. We are regularly audited for proof of funds by Ernst and Young. And we are also registered with the Danish Finance
and we believe that projects like ours are renewing the confidence of investors and traders in this current bear market in the crypto space. We've achieved a few milestones in the recent past and I just want to give you guys a quick recap before we officially move on to our guest. We have recently published
are quarterly ordered by Ernst & Young for Proof of Funds. We have integrated with Axelon Network to enable cross-chain asset transfers. So users across different blockchains can start accessing our stablecoin solutions. We've also partnered with RETOC, a real estate tokenization platform. So they
So they're going to use the euro to distribute credit card and debit card. So mainstream adoption is coming soon guys. So passing your seat belts. And with that,
I'd like to officially introduce Lucas Navicus. Welcome Lucas Navicus. Lucas is a CEO of Proteus Finance. Lucas, can you tell us a little bit more about your background? What was the idea behind Proteus Finance? And most importantly, what is Proteus Finance do now?
Sure, yeah, so my name is Lucas as you already introduced me so very quickly about me I started investing in crypto 2017 just before the bull run right like most of us and wasn't the crypto space for last four or four to five years now Start produce funds last year actually after analyzing the market after finding the opportunity
in the terrorist base, right? And started C5D5 company called Produce Fines together with Gabriel and Peltar and the other other people from the team. And now as you know, Tera collapse like a few months ago, one and a half months ago, and basically now, totally changing direction and not totally changing direction.
actually preserving the same vision but adjusting the product to the current circumstances. Okay, so you know you guys started off I think trying to create a lending and borrowing protocol or was it like a yield project?
Yeah, so let me tell you a little bit about what the initial idea behind Portages was, right? So Portages basically was a DeFi aggregator. It's like one stop shop where users could come there and choose wherever they would like to invest in. So we essentially present different DeFi strategies for users, right?
and users generally killed in that in that way. Now, everything was nice and clean and we saw this opportunity because we have a few players that do a similar job like SwissBorgon, Celts, the where quite successful companies at that time, right? And we saw this opportunity in the terrorist business because we found out
a lot of different strategies, especially on USD and the Luna space. We said, "Okay, we can have a bigger yield, be in an ecosystem that is relatively new, but super interesting." We said, "Yeah, why not creating in that space?" We had this opportunity in the tourist, because I'm going to
happen, you know, we already know what happens. And we couldn't continue basically doing the same in the terrorist space and the space and we have to adjust our product to make it really chain agnostic, right? And that's what we are currently doing and basically, I can tell you a little bit what we did after that, so we basically
We've closed the doors and really worked on the product itself in the last one and a half month. And we're ready to present our new branding, which will be called Rosie Wales, and which will have essentially the most important strategy that we developed using protein finance. But it will be completely chain-agnosed. Right.
Right. So what is your thought process initially behind launching your project on Dera over any other dream? What made you choose Dera to begin with? Yeah, basically we analyzed the competition. We saw that Ethereum has the biggest TVL, a lot of people are in Ethereum and we have great protocols already on it.
But the theorem is doing everything right. There are so many games trading everything happens on the theorem blockchain, right? And what we saw in there is that they really specialize in DeFi, decentralized funds. First of all, we launched their decentralized stablecoin, which we really believed in, right? And we thought, okay, that's that
That's something super interesting for us. And we really say, okay, we are creating a financial product, so it doesn't make sense to stick with the theorem that does a little bit of everything. Why does it better to choose a chain that actually specializes in something? And that's how basically we chose to choose the right USD to build the product upon.
So another argument, there was no competitor at that time that was doing anything similar on the entire space, right? We saw a few defibrillable spopping up, but we saw a really great business opportunity there. Right. So as you mentioned, similar to Sporg and Feltz, which are on other chains.
you wanted to do something similar, a model that I'd already probably worked, but you wanted to do it on Terra so you kind of like had your niche market there. Correct, but it was not a copy of a sales user or a smismer by any means, right? Because let's say we see what sales user is doing, right? It's basically taking the
deposits of people investing in protocols that you don't even know where. And our idea was to be really in between the C-Fine, to be in between the C-Fine D-Fine, really to show everything what happens at the background, show where the money go and really be able to allow users to be able to track everything what happens
when they deposit money, where they send it, and how much yield they generate, how much yield the platform takes, and so on. Right. And you're in a unique position at the moment because I'm sure you had some funds locked in Terra. And now you are trying to reinvent your company, perhaps even pivot to a different
business model. So what's the ground reality? How difficult is it right now, especially with macroeconomic headwinds where it's probably difficult to raise around money? And given that there's so much fun, and perhaps rightfully so in the crypto market, how hard is it to
to a different business model. Well, the thing for us is that we don't have to completely pivot into a different business model because we stay with the same vision, right? And the vision is that people can safely invest their money and safely grow their capital. So the vision does the same. It's still a financial sector that we are doing. Now what happens is
Because yes, you're right, the macroeconomic elements, they change a little bit, right? It's much difficult to raise money. There are less people that are interested in crypto at the moment, and less people that trust crypto, so to say, right? Well, for us, we have a strong team, and that's our biggest advantage. Number one, and number two, we'll
I already had, let's say, 95% of the product done. We have to adjust the product and just continue with the same vision that we had. That's what we are doing basically. In the next week, we're going to present to our initial investors what we have created. We're going to present our product, which we actually
already adjusted. So that's basically the situation. Okay, so you know, look as I wanted to ask you, and I've been always curious since you're pretty well versed with this space, how does, you know, a project like yours make money when you're off
high yield, right? And you've already clarified that you're not trying to copy Celsius or Swissborg, but you know there are similarities in your business model and their business model and what's happened with Celsius as well as really unfortunate and a lot of those functions that are automated
are actually very manualized functions, right? There's securities lending, market making, and so on and so forth. How do projects like yours make money given that we've seen similar projects have not the same fail recently? Yeah, sure.
So basically the most popular way is you take a percentage of the few, right? So let's say user deposit $1,000 into your platform, right? And he chooses where she chooses to invest in a specific protocol that generates 10% yield a year. So basically take a part of this yield or you
Or you also take a fee associated with the investment right and that's a fairly simple model and that's actually the model that we We wanted to incorporate and produce as well and what we had now difference to a C Celsius is that they actually take the money and they do They're less transparent
So you don't actually know what happened with your money. They take your money, they take a leverage position, they basically borrow more money, they take a leverage position on Bitcoin, Ethereum, or any other asset that they think will grow in value. And they try to actually, you know, they really hope for crypto market to go up. They long and they
They tried to make money in this way. So we knew that this is actually a self-destructing path. So we never thought about leveraging or basically using users money for any other reason than really allowing users to decide what they want to invest and just take a small percentage of their investment.
I actually really don't know why why Celsius is risking that much or voyager and the other company with you know, it's essentially the greed you know that takes those companies It's from a user's perspective. It's a black box right because you're putting in funds and
And everyone is sucked into it with the potential of high returns and high yields. And you have no idea what these guys are doing with your money. So how is your project different? Are you guys using any kind of automated bots or AI to ensure that users get a high yield?
So, before the produce finds, we were investing into different tar protocols and aggregating compound tar protocols. And we were allowing users to choose what they want to invest their money, right? So it's basically 100% transparency users just come to the platform, they choose a strategy that they prefer or a protocol directly, they invest and we take a small percentage.
Now with the Rosie will, what are we going to do? We don't even take the deposits anymore because we really think now that the centralised way means that your key is your crypto. At this very moment, how are the strategies you work with?
it money into a centralized exchange. They have to connect with the API keys with us and basically they turn on the strategy. And that's the strategy works on behalf of the users. And the vision here is actually not to work on this on a decentralized exchange on long run but to go decentralized and to allow users to run
And again, sending a sum percentage, a small percentage to us is a platform fee. And so, yeah, that's actually how, how will it be?
it work? Right, and you know a lot of people thought that some of these other projects are blowing up were D5 but in actuality there were C5 projects and they were very centralized and what you're proposing now is that you want to go more in the decentralized direction or is that going to be somewhere in between
Yeah, exactly, exactly. We're not going to hold users money in custody. And that's very important. I think, you know, if in 2022 you're still holding users money, you're doing something wrong in the crypto space. So we definitely not going to hold users money. First of all, it will work through exchanges and later on, it will work through the ledger.
So users are responsible to hold their own funds and then hold their own keys. Right. And coming back to projects that are now looking to a either pivot or perhaps even resurrect on different chains, what sort of support are you getting from the ecosystem, right?
So are you migrating to other chains since you already mentioned you want to be chain agnostic, but are other chains offering you support or grants to make that move? Yeah, so actually once the Terra collapse we saw different articles saying that chains actually
We invite third-developers and that's completely true. There are different grants and we will start applying for grants once we have our marketing material done. Now regarding the help from third-self, at this moment there was not much help, but there will be an emergency fund for every
everybody who actually had a terror product and would like to support tearing the future, right? Would like to support terror to change. And they said that they will be a fund for this. So sure, for us, that would be a great help. But until now there was there was actually nothing right. So we have to we had to fund the development. Let's say in the past
months from our own pocket, but that's totally fine. And as I mentioned before, the goal is to have strategies that are chain-agnostic, and that's what we currently have, and I'm very happy about this, you know, so it really still doesn't matter on what chain we're executing the trades.
Right. And similarly, lots of projects across that ecosystem would have raised funds from investors. Have you had the opportunity to perhaps present a new use case to some of your investors? And what's that conversation like? Are they open to the idea of
putting in more money in case some of your funds that were locked on another blockchain have been lost are they open to you raising additional rounds and when I say you it's not just you it could be generally you know all most of the projects that were on that ecosystem. Sure so interestingly enough we're going to actually go to our investors
in the next few days once we have our marketing material done once we have the MVP also exposed right so cannot comment much on that but what they see from the crypto space in general there is much less investment that are being done from a smaller players and a lot of investments that are being done from a big player so for instance I had a chance now a month ago to be an awesome
in the US and consensus. Exactly. Exactly. And basically, you know, quickly showed what we have right now. And there was a lot of interest from big players. Right. I don't want to mention their names because we have we're going to have calls with all of them, right? And there's nothing written on the paper yet. But from what we have from
Our idea was very interesting for the big players, for the big VC companies, very well-known VC companies. And what I see from a, there's much, much less interest, let's say, from a small players, because I think they lost an substantial amount of money in what happened in the last few months. So I think it's normal, you know, probably bigger players.
they have much more capital, they deploy capital in different ways maybe they take less risks. Right, so in fact this is not just wiped out some of the projects, this is also wiped out some of the VCs that were existing in this space and it's just shake out of not just people who are building in this space and building projects and protocols but it's also
shake out for the investors and it seems like there's a consolidation and it's just the big players for now that are surviving and hopefully moving forward, the ecosystem will bring up new projects and new investors as well. Exactly. I really hope of the same but what I also want to say to you other great, it's very, very
important to have a great team that can deliver a product at least an MVP version without a huge external investment because basically you both take a big risk when you're taking investment, right? And if you can deliver a product is exactly what we're doing now without an investment then it's my
It's much better for the whole crypto space because then really only valuable projects will survive and that's what we need actually. You know, I covered this in our last two spaces as well and one of the critiques we keep hearing about the crypto ecosystem is that crypto is a solution in search of a product.
right? A lot of people are not using these protocols and we really need to start building products that you know lead to mainstream adoption and that have a you know certain use case, a real world use case. It could be in the finance industry, the insurance industry. A lot of that is not happening
or perhaps I could be wrong, what are your thoughts? That's very true, because there are a lot of copycats, a lot of copies of other projects or projects that depend on other projects and the main project goes bust, then there are also loses in value. That's the thing that's like a
Wild West Wild Market, right? And everybody wants to invest. Everybody wants to make a buck and they don't make enough. They don't have enough knowledge actually to check the team to check if the project is actually sustainable. So my suggestion, you know, whenever you invest is just invest in a team, don't invest in that specific product because you know, let's say in our case, right, we have to shift the product. We have
the product by maybe 40-50% and it's a lot, but the team says the same, the vision stays the same. I think that's about a lot of other businesses, a lot of other crypto businesses. So if you invest in a team, if you invest in a team's vision, then you're really good to go.
But the teams also, in my opinion, have to start building products that have real world use cases. Take a friend who's not in this space. When's the last time? Are they likely to dip their toes in the crypto ecosystem? Well, if it's solving a real world problem,
Let's say they want an insurance contract or whether they want to register their house deed and if they're able to do that a lot better with the use of a blockchain and crypto, that's when they'll be more likely to enter this space, right? That's very true. That's very true.
really use case scenario is everything. For example, about NFTs, right? I mean, NFTs is an amazing thing, right? I mean, I think that every single company in the world will use, or I cannot say every single company, but I can see more than 50% for sure will use NFTs in the very near future, right? Let's say tickets, right?
I think Emily tickets will be replaced by NFTs because that makes much more sense. You can do much more with the NFTs than with a simple QR code, right? And what happens is that, you know, we still have a lot of projects that just offer some pictures, right, and actually know underlying code underneath them. And that's the issue, right? Why nobody really
goes to the airlines and propose this idea. There are so many great ideas that you could create, but people actually like to copy a lot of creators like to copy the projects and hope for the same success that you know previous project has. So I don't agree with you. It's a real worth scenario that will make the difference in only those businesses. I don't like to call them project only those
crypto business is supposed to arrive. Right, and you write about NFTs, for example, being, you know, you can use it for tickets, you can use it. Your university degree can be an NFT as well, so can your house date. But people coming into the space they hear that, you know, a monkey photo is being sold for, you know,
$300,000 and that would attract right that would attract because you hear it the three three three three hundred care or something like that right and that's why people actually rushing into space because of the greed right so if we eliminate greed then we can then we can have great products and if greed is in the space and you know there will be a lot of a lot of boasting
Right. And yeah, exactly. And you know, one of the things moving on to is stablecoins that have actually provided, you know, a fantastic use case in the crypto ecosystem. Think about, you know, sending money across borders and the kind of
a bank piece that you guys pay. And even in Europe, Christine Lagarde is more concerned about stable coins than she is about bitcoin, right? Because that's something that, you know, that has a use case that directly competes with, you know, fiat currency. But at the same time,
These algorithmic stablecoins continue to be stressed as we have seen with the latest blow up. What do you think is the future of algorithmic stablecoins? Is it safe to say that trust in them has eroded after the recent crash?
and I think there will be much more stablecoins in the market and half of them, many of them will not survive, but maybe one or two or a few of them will survive and will be widely used. I believe in the future of stablecoins, but we are early, so this technology has to be developed.
Yeah, I think perhaps that's where our collateralized stablecoins that are fully asset backed and interest varying have a fantastic use case here, you know, and we've been getting a lot of support.
from projects as well and a lot of curiosity amongst various projects in the space because at a time when trust has eroded and it's safe to say that I think something that's backed by solid funds sitting in a bank in Europe offer of fantastic
to what's out there currently? >> Exactly, exactly. You're offering stable-considered collateralized, and that brings the trust. If you can show a proof that they are collateralized, that's perfectly. That's really helps script adoption.
Right, because people get really taken in by these vanity numbers, right? TBL, you're on your growth, exponential growth, but perhaps, you know, sometimes it's better to go a bit slowly and maybe slow and steady wins the race here.
Right. Right. Look as I you know people keep equating this crash with 2018, you know, but I personally feel that we are much better off because back then there was no proper defi. NFTs weren't really around back then and generally the infrastructure
Although not perfect today, it's a lot better than it was before years ago. So what are you bullish on in the future? Is it DeFi, NFTs, Play2One, gaming? Or do you think we'll continue to see innovation in algorithmic stablecoins or borrow, lend, slash, yield, protocol?
>> These are different sections of blockchain, of cryptocurrencies. Let's say DeFi is an example. I think DeFi will be huge in the future. I see many people now in Twitter speaking that DeFi passes days, but still not true. For instance, structure products.
It will be placed on chain, right? For example, we have companies like Ribbon Finance or Struck Finance that are doing exactly this. So I think DeFi will be very big, right? We lost more than 50% of the TBL because people lost the trust, got a lunar crash, but DeFi will be big. The same with NFTs, right? NFTs will be very, very big. And as I mentioned before, more than 50%#
the companies in the world will be using NFTs, will be issuing their own NFTs. So the bullish on that as well. I'm pleased to earn a possibility for users to earn while they play their games. So many of those models are unsustainable, right? But the ones worth sustainable, they will survive. So I think all of those areas will go forward really. I mean, these are different areas of
of blockchain. Which one are you particularly bullish on? Sorry to put you on the spot, but if you had to pick one that you think can really go far along the way, which one would that be? Yeah, so I think our algorithmic trading, trading, DeFi and high frequency trading, is that what I mean
interested in actually and what I think it will drive, not maybe the next bull run but the next next bull running. If I look four to five years into the future. So we can look forward to a bull run and another massive crash before we finally take off with D5. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, okay, I just want to
open up the chat for a few questions of people have because I've been getting a few messages as well. If any of you guys have questions feel free to just ping but why do you guys do that? I have a question here from one of the users in my DM and that is
Do you think investors will fund a lot of these so-called MeToo, you know, copycat projects where projects are basically clones of others? Or do you think the space is drying up for something like that? But that's the thing, right? Because we had exactly the same 2017-2018 and the issue is that
Before this bull cycle, we had a lot of new investors coming up that didn't participate in the ICO boom. They did exactly the same mistake. They just put their money anywhere. Being interested in the team and checking out the project and the business. That's what happens when new players
the market. So for instance, the players that already survived this cycle or the previous cycle, they already have the knowledge. They're much more smarter now. So I think that in the next cycle, we still very early, right? So we still have new players that coming up, some new VC funds that say, oh, yes, I would like to make 100 X, you know, and they will be probably still finding some
of the projects without much understanding. But in the long run, investors will get smarter. So we'll see the great of full theory playing out a little bit longer. VCs are generally, because this space is new, right? It's emerging technology. And VCs
to throw a spaghetti at a wall and see what sticks. I'm not saying all of them. I'm sure there's a lot of due diligence, but at the same time it's a high risk high reward game. So yeah, I think that I'm sure that answers the question where I think space for that is drying up for
now, especially in this market, and VCs are getting a little bit more circumspect. Sorry, what's happened to my pronunciation before they, you know, spend a lot of money on projects like these. I have another question.
from one of the users. So he asks, is regulation good for the ecosystem or does this go against the ethos of crypto and decentralization? Some regulations always good, right? I mean, if you leave up to the users, there would be much more scams in the space if you
you would have no regulation, right? But that's the thing, you know, first we must have businesses to drive the economy and then we can see what regulation makes sense. Right, because if you talk to, let's say Bitcoin, Maximilists and a lot of these guys who, you know, prefer to be a libertarian paradise,
They would say regulation is bad, right? But in Europe then in regulation is good for the ecosystem. It's also important but that also leads to more centralization of power and that's against the decentralization. Yes, so that's look that's why we have centralized and decentralized exchanges, right? And that's why we should allow
up to people to decide what they would like to, first of all, store their money, what they would like to exchange their money. People are happy using buy-and-service, that's totally fine. For beginners, it's much, much easier going to the centralized way, which is heavily regulated. For advanced users, more smarter is much more interesting going to the centralized.
right and using the you know having the custody of their own wallet and of their own funds. But don't you think that most governments around the world are a little bit uncomfortable but decentralized exchanges let's say like a uni swap for example where there is no KYC AML and depending on where you are this can pose a
a decent threat as far as the sovereignty of their country's concern and their currency is concerned and also issues like terrorism financing and so on and so forth. Oh, so that's, you know, I'm not really familiar with the let's see terrorism finance and the cryptoscopies, I don't have
information about that. So it cannot comment on that. But I believe that we should have decentralized exchanges and it's a free market, right? Everybody should do their due diligence and be able to launch new tokens and do whatever they actually prefer.
but there will be, there is a need of education, right? Of much more information, what's actually happening? Because if you go to Uniswap page, right? And you, you know, if you're a new user, you don't know what happens there, right? I mean, you can click two buttons and you can lose all your money, right? So there's a need of much more education in the market. That's what I think#
And perhaps a little bit of regulation as well. So retail investors, the small investor does not click something accidentally and lose all his money or her money. Yeah. Sure. Always some regulation must be there, right? Must be there. I mean, to prevent scams, that's very important to to prevent scams.
my pen for sure. Sure. And yeah, lastly, I have another question and I must say this is not financial advice. We are not offering that here. But what's your friendly opinion on crypto? Should one huddle more Bitcoin and eat in this market? Should
someone buy more or sell it because it's all going to zero and strong regulation is coming. What would you personally like to do? Yeah, so always diversified. That's so important to be diversified in different currencies. The worst thing about Bitcoin, about this market is that it's so Bitcoin driven, right? We see great proto-
It's like near protocol just dumping down when the Bitcoin price is going down. That's pretty sad. But what I think in the future, the BitConominants will slowly go down and then those projects are really giving value. They will decouple a little bit from Bitcoin and then will move their direction. That's what I really hope.
The diversifier portfolio understand the Bitcoin cycles. What happens is that people just, they got their salary, they got some funds and they want to put in the market right now, but timing is important. If you study the Bitcoin cycles, you will understand a little bit how the cryptocurrency market works and you will be able to invest smart to
right? And not risk your funds. Right. And apart from Bitcoin, what's your view on Ethereum on Ether? Also, we see it's a great ecosystem. It's a number two ecosystem and I think it's an amazing technology. Right. And we have competition from polygon and near that I'm actually
very bullish on the moment. Right, so in your opinion, and again, this is not financial advice, you put some money in near and polygon, which is magic, and that's what you're bullish on. In spite of the fact that this regulation is coming, and at least what's happened in
where I am in India and some of the other exchanges as well is that centralised exchanges have restricted withdrawals. So you're not able to take your money out of the exchange and some of these tokens which you mentioned don't have enough liquidity on the exchange and that becomes harder to self-custody as well.
correct correct that that's pretty bad I mean that that's a hard regulation if you cannot withdraw from a centralized exchange that that's pretty bad and that's what I was saying that you know it's better to own your your your keys your crypto right so that's why I have for instance hold try to hold my ledger myself and all the cryptos I tend to hold out
outside of centralized exchanges. Coming back to the market itself, I'm bullish on the market. I'm bullish on the future of cryptocurrencies. What I'm investing in, I'm mostly investing in what we do ourselves in creating the Rosy-Well product, which we are currently creating.
The spare money I tend to diversify at the top 20 or top 30 currencies according to the market cap. Right. There are talks that we could see a little bit more pain in the market. We are witnessing that right now. It's as bad as it's ever been.
But with the Fed typing interest rates sometime in July, I think towards the end of this month, we're going to see more money taking out of crypto and perhaps put in the US dollar. And that could result in some of these prices dropping further. What are your thoughts? Yeah, and that per-perfectly aligns with the Bitcoin cycles, right?
We cannot expect a very quick recovery to 40, 50, 60K and have a new all-time high this year. I don't believe in that beer markets are cruel, you know, and they tend to crush people's funds a lot. And that's why I expect you know also a little bit longer beer markets until the end of the year or at least a few
space where happy that this crash has happened because it also clears out a lot of speculators and now the real projects the ones that can build fantastic projects can move forward. Exactly that's a agree 100% with us and that's what I see that the interest from bigger fronts and from bigger
bigger VC companies, it's much higher now. I remember that when we were raising for produce funds mostly in December, January, February, it was much more difficult to get the attention from big crypto exchanges because they were crushed by thousands of projects. And now they really seek projects themselves and look for projects
that actually can provide value. It's actually a great time to invest in a great time to build. It's not a great time to sit on the sideline and wait for the next bull line. Right. You rightly said, Binance has raised around 500 million A16z, one of the early technology investors has raised
$4.5 billion fund. So, you know, those guys are certainly bullish and I've keenly watched to see what those guys are doing. But thank you so much. Lucas has been fantastic having you here and thank you for answering all these questions. Look forward to hearing more on Proteus Finance.
and staying in touch with you and learning more from you as well. Thank you so much. Thanks, sir. That was great. Thanks, guys. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be back again in a couple of weeks with a new guest and some more fantastic questions. Thank you all. See ya. Tcha-cha. Take care.