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Neofinance & Omnichain RWAs w. Layer Zero x Canto
Recorded: Oct. 25, 2023 Duration: 0:41:54Space Recording
Full Transcription
We'll be right back.
but there are certain unique characteristics.
I think that's a really good call-out.
Layer 0 is not just a value transfer layer.
You can do that on top of Layer 0.
Stargate, for example, is the largest value transfer layer.
It's a DAP built on top of Layer 0.
But Layer 0 is a general messaging protocol.
It allows you to send messages between chains.
So Layer 0 sits in the protocol between chains
and allows you to send value, state, data,
anything you really want between chains as a developer.
So when you look at what that means for an OFT as it moves,
it means that you can actually do complex interaction on the back end.
So, for example, the idea of Note as an OFT
means that somebody could acquire Note
or somebody could interact with Note on some other chain,
pick a chain that's not Cantal,
and that could trigger a message that sends state somewhere
that updates some kind of effect on Canto.
It could send Note back to Canto
and do something with it on behalf of the user.
It could do this all with the user
never actually touching or using Canto
because gas is completely abstracted.
So you can all of a sudden start to have these interactions
that expose other people to blockchains
they've never heard of, talked to, used
because that's where a great product is built.
So it'll ask people to build a great product
wherever they want to build it
and then expand it to any chain they want.
But again, product is not just value.
It can be interaction.
It can be really anything.
I see.
That makes sense.
I guess another thing for education as well,
this is a common question that comes up,
is what are kind of, I guess,
when people look at Layer 0
and when they evaluate other bridges,
it's just like,
what kind of makes Layer 0 quite unique
from, I guess, a security perspective?
I know it's kind of a house cleaning question,
but it is something I think that is important.
Yeah, so I think it's a great question
because everyone sees the headline and says,
okay, when you look at the majority of hacks
that happened over, you know, within DeFi,
bridges are by far the biggest loss-leading category.
The typical thing there is,
we're talking about mint and burn bridges,
so the, sorry, lock and mint bridges,
the idea that somebody locks an asset on chain A
and mints an IOU of the asset on chain B.
Layer 0 is not a bridge like that.
Layer 0 is a messaging protocol.
So all the security gets put in the hands
of the end developer.
So all of the assumptions that the developer makes,
they choose.
So in the same way you would trust somebody
to use their smart contract
when you're interacting with their application
or product on chain,
they have the same flexibility and the same trust
when they're building with Layer 0.
They select the entities
that help secure their messaging.
That can be, you know,
using ZK Proofs with Polyhedra.
It can be using Google Cloud
to help secure your messaging
or Chainlink or a variety of other people.
You can set your finality,
depending on what you want,
in your validation library.
And then when you look at cross-chain messaging,
Layer 0 has moved close to $100 billion
of value so far in the past year.
And, you know, without loss.
And it's really because the messaging protocol
follows three core principles.
It is permissionless.
Anyone can build on it.
It's censorship resistant.
And it's immutable.
So the idea is it's been battle-tested.
It's in production.
And that's why Layer 0 is the leading protocol
to send cross-chain messages.
So when you talk about security,
it comes down to do you trust the person,
you know, that you're interacting with their,
you know, with their actual product or offering.
Because the messaging protocol itself is there,
is immutable, and, you know,
everyone, you know, inherits
that same battle-tested framework.
That makes sense.
So I have an interesting kind of comment and question.
And, again, correct me if I'm wrong.
It's, like, usually when people look at,
even when you integrate Layer 0
or, like, other forms of bridges,
usually from my understanding is, like,
whether it's an application
that's approaching you guys.
And I guess from here, the scenario,
you guys have pretty much,
obviously, supported Kanto as a chain.
But also, you've also, like,
I think right now it's Kanto outbound.
And then also, like,
Kanto inbound, outbound, right?
And then also, like, Ceno in and out.
So I think the curious also is just, like,
is this one of the, like,
usually when people integrate
or leverage Layer 0 stack or technology,
it's mostly, like, for a specific,
I want to go from point A to point B,
and that becomes, like,
this general road that everyone uses.
But what I'm trying to get at is,
is this, like,
I feel like this is kind of a unique scenario
for us because it's mostly, like,
Ceno is essentially, as we said, right,
tokenized, is a unit of account
backed by tokenized RWAs,
in this case, T-bills.
Is this, like, one of those unique
kind of use cases or flows
where it's not just point A to point B,
it's point A, but point A,
aka Kanto, to, like, A, B, C, D,
or whatever endpoints
kind of Layer 0 support.
So what I'm trying to say is that
we're using Layer 0 as a distribution channel,
which I feel like made,
I could be wrong, but it's, like,
I've never seen that
at this scale, potentially.
Yeah, Layer 0 allows,
and, I mean,
we're thrilled that, you know,
is doing it, and, you know,
it allows you to sort of
select your pathways, right?
So you can go from A to B,
you can go from B to C,
it allows horizontal composability
across your offerings.
On a traditional sort of bridge structure,
if you look at, let's say,
an L1 to L2, you know,
canonical bridge structure,
you go one way,
but you can't go horizontally
between different L2s.
Layer 0 is a framework
that allows, you know,
builders to pick
where they want things to go.
So any of the near 50 support chains
on Layer 0,
you can choose to expand to,
and I think that's also important
because it provides
some future-proofing as well.
If you want to expand to a new chain,
it's as simple as deploying
a contract there
and hooking it up.
And all of a sudden,
that chain is integrated
with every other support chain
and C-Notes there natively as well.
So you,
and the important thing there,
and when I say natively,
it's really important
because when we talk about security,
the thing with Layer 0 is,
you know,
the owners of the project
own all of their own contracts.
Layer 0 is not a custodial platform,
right?
It's a protocol.
It's not a platform,
it's not a service,
it's a protocol.
you know,
the idea that there's no third party
that owns control of your token supply,
there's no third party
that's holding something
where if something happens to them,
you're in trouble,
which we've seen
with a bunch of these bridge hacks
where,
you know,
the supply gets compromised
and projects have nothing to do with any of it
just get wrecked
because a bunch of their supply
gets put out there.
That does not happen within Layer 0
because of how the protocol
is fundamentally designed,
and that then allows C-Note
to really go and expand anywhere.
That makes sense.
Yeah,
I was just going to hand it to you.
I'll kind of add on to that.
like,
obviously,
like,
the OFTs
are really cool,
but,
like,
kind of like you guys were mentioning,
that's really just,
like,
value transfer
between that,
because different ecosystems.
I think what's really cool
like,
Layer 0 is,
like,
generalized,
sort of,
like,
cross-chain messaging,
which Max kind of touched on,
and I think there's,
like,
a really interesting design space
to explore
in terms of,
like,
allowing protocols
like,
integrate C-Note
into their,
sort of,
like,
architecture,
like,
more seamlessly.
And,
like,
okay,
so I guess the other thing
we should talk about
like,
other than just being,
like,
a stable store of value,
like,
what is C-Note?
I think one of the use cases
that we're envisioning
is that it can be a really great
sort of form of collateral,
whether that's for,
like,
other lending markets
on other ecosystems
or maybe,
like,
protocols,
things of that nature.
If we can,
like,
use,
like,
Layer 0's distribution
and also,
like,
give developers the freedom
to kind of,
like,
develop their own
sort of
systems around it,
I think that makes C-Note,
like,
a lot more powerful,
if that makes sense.
Yeah,
I think that makes sense to me
and I guess,
is that something,
I guess,
is that how
kind of you guys,
you approach your ecosystem
like,
the devs that are your community,
at least people working
and integrating on Layer 0?
Is that kind of the right approach
or right way to think
about it?
Mostly to Max,
I guess.
Yeah,
I think,
I think we,
I'm just thinking through,
like,
I think that we
are fairly agnostic
about,
about what people
build on top of Layer 0.
we just try to empower people
to try and build
the best experience
of whatever they want to build,
right?
So that's why I hesitate to say
we think about this
in one way or another
because,
frankly,
I see things built
on top of Layer 0
on a near daily basis
that,
like,
change the way
that I think about
what's possible
or potential
for the protocol
or how people
could use it.
That's why
I don't really have a,
like,
yeah.
For sure.
My mind is continually
blown by other people
and what they do.
Let's put it that way.
Fair enough.
Cool.
I guess
that makes sense.
I think we can maybe,
like,
head into more,
just some more stuff
about,
like,
what we're working on
in terms of Canto.
I guess
we did talk about,
from a really high level
about Neo Finance,
and then we also did talk
about
CNote.
I guess a question,
and we did talk briefly,
but I guess,
maybe if you want to
kind of talk about,
like,
the general flows,
like,
how could someone
get CNote today
on Canto?
Like,
maybe if you want to
talk about
general flow,
and then maybe,
yeah,
let's start there,
and then I'll add on
after that.
Yeah,
sure.
I think the easiest way
for people to get CNote
right now
is actually just to
pay for it
on Slingshot.
recently,
we deployed
a CNote USDC pool,
and right now,
it has
quite a bit of
liquidity in it,
so if you're
trying to
acquire CNote,
that's probably
the easiest way
to get it.
Also,
another way
to get it
would be
if you already
have Note,
you can supply
that into the
lending market,
and then you'll
receive CNote.
As I mentioned
before,
it's like
the collateralized
receipt token
for Note
in the
Cantilani market.
those are the two
ways that you can
currently get CNote.
And then I guess
touching on that,
if you do want
to bridge your
CNote out,
currently,
we have that
supported for
Ethereum via
the Layer 0
OFT.
you can just
use the bridge
on Kanto.io
to do that.
There will be
like a CNote
option,
and that way
you can take
CNote from
Kanto
into Ethereum.
That makes sense.
I guess
as we
approach the
latter part of
this space,
I think maybe
we could also
talk about
for the
people,
obviously,
the Kanto
community
especially,
it's like
right now
that's the
way to get
CNote.
Maybe we
could maybe
talk about
some other
potential ways
that
kind of
where CNote
sits
in the
ecosystem
and maybe
we could
talk very
briefly
around
Finance
Coordinator
and stuff
like maybe
very briefly
of what we
anticipate,
what we see
happening in
terms of
later on
down the
road in
terms of
maybe lending
markets or
other forms
of collateral
coming because
we did
announce
Anson,
so maybe
we could
just touch
on quite
briefly
where we
anticipate.
Yep.
So yeah,
I guess
what you're
really talking
about is
use cases
for CNote
and so
one of the
big things
that we're
envisioning
is in
downstream
lending
markets on
Kanto.
So there's
one in the
works that
I know of
right now
that will
be sort
of working
with other
issuers
and the
way that
CNote will
kind of plug
into that
is people
will be able
to take
CNote and
supply it
to that
downstream
lending
market so
that others
can borrow
it using
their RWA
tokens as
collateral.
And so
yeah,
kind of like
it's a
downstream
lending
market,
right?
So it's
downstream
from the
Kanto
lending
market.
And that's
kind of like
what I was
alluding to
before when I
mentioned that
we think that
CNote is a
really good
sort of form
of collateral.
And so
we're going
to kind
of see how
that plays
out.
I think
pretty soon
a lot of
this stuff
should be
releasing.
And then
when
sort of
touching on
the Neo
Finance
coordinator,
this is
something that
I'm not
sure exactly
how much
has been
discussed
yet,
but it's
sort of
like this
protocol
that is
being
developed
on Kanto,
which allows
many lending,
like any
lending market
to kind
of plug
into it.
And it
kind of
works similar
to like
curve
gauges
where it'll
allow people
to sort
of lock
their Kanto
to receive
like vote
escrowed
Kanto,
and then
they can
start voting
on different
lending markets
or different
like lending
like I
guess,
yeah,
lending markets
to send
rewards to.
And so
that's
sort of
one way
that we're
going to
incentivize
like this
initial use
case for
CNote,
right?
Like in
that scenario,
like not only
are you
receiving the
interest on
CNote itself,
but also
you'll be
receiving
rewards
for actually
supplying it
into certain
lending markets.
So that
is what I
would say
is like the
general overview.
I think a
lot more
material about
this kind
of stuff
will be
released
pretty soon.
So definitely
be on the
lookout for
that.
Yeah,
that makes
sense.
Thank you,
And also
like we
have kind
of talked
about there
have been
a bunch
of Coderino
competitions
that have
gone out
in the
last month.
So stuff
around
Neo Finance
coordinator,
stuff like
that.
If people
want to
take a
look,
they could
see there
there's
some kind
I don't
know if
you want
to call
it alpha,
but info,
if you will,
about that.
But yeah,
I think
we're
approaching
kind of
the end
of the
general
spaces.
I think
the summary
for me
in terms
of stuff
to look
at moving
forward
before I
open it
up to
is really
excited
for this
integration
with Layer
Zero.
I personally
want to see
and explore
the design
space
of the
messaging
capabilities.
I think
CNote as
an asset
and having
it as
an OFT
and just
accessible
everywhere
Omnichain
is extremely
interesting
from a
distribution
channel.
And I'm
personally,
again,
it's my
opinion,
but personally
super excited
to see
and push
kind of
what that
is capable
to the
limits.
I think
having this
kind of,
again,
my opinion,
kind of
much more
interesting
collateral,
right,
accessible
protocol
developers
just
general
ecosystems
as a
form of
liquidity,
something
that
people
hold
this
yield.
I think
that's
just
quite
fascinating.
And more
importantly,
I think
that's
something
that
general
space
needs,
right,
as we
kind of
exist in
this
regime
of high
interest
rates.
I think
bringing
that
on-chain
making
accessible
through
laser
already
interesting.
But more
importantly,
I think
as this
kind of
finance
develops
becomes
a lot
bigger
mentioned,
CNote
becomes
a lot
more
interesting
from
what
people
also
making
accessible
through
layer
zero.
I think
that's
something
to look
forward
And I
think
the last
point
once
these
kind
liquidity
CNote
starts
increasing
hopefully
then
system
built
think
exploring
messaging
capabilities
building
omni-chain
applications
that
access
CNote
contract
Kanto
build
these
interesting
cases
not only
within
chains
themselves
roll-ups
even
within
protocols
I think
that
design
space
very
early
today
think
that's
where
opinion
where
like
think
that's
where
we'll
seeing
very
interesting
experiments
really
showcase
only
CNote
like
design
space
around
CNote
just
quite
immense
also
showcasing
layer
zero
really
powerful
distribution
layer
for this
type
asset
think
that's
kind
general
closing
thoughts
guys
have
thoughts
well
I'll
just
hand
over
guys
then
we'll
quick
then
wrap
think
that
very
well
eloquent
thing
the only
thing
excited
what
build
explore
design
space
people
that
want
build
create
amazing
things
just
super
excited
to see
that
thanks
do you
have
comments
I think
yeah
I agree
with
everything
that you
and Max
have said
and I'm
also
extremely
excited
to see
what
we can
with
CNote
letter
zero
awesome
cool
I think
open it
up for
questions
give it
around
like
five
minutes
will
wrap
very
soon
right
let's
struggling
to find
out who's
not a
and who's
a bot
seems
like
there's
bots
right
I guess
no one
has any
questions
right now
surely
there must
be some
questions
we just
did such
a good
talking
that
everyone's
like
satisfied
mind
blowing
you know
just
excited
all right
let's
one sec
every time
all right
I don't
know if
this is a
bot or
I'm just
giving you
a disclaimer
and if
it's not
I'm sorry
but here
okay
is this
a real
person
all right
okay
it's a
okay I'm
really bad
at this
okay so
seems like
all the
requests till
now were
bots
okay wait
wait
all right
okay
all right
we have
I brought
some people
crypto
boy do
you have
a question
all right
nothing
there
all right
I don't
think we
have a
question so
if that's
the case
we'll just
wrap it
all right
I'll give
another
minute
I'll add
a few
more
people
okay
all right
I guess
that's it
there's no
questions
people were
content
I can't
complain about
that
well thank
thank you
for having
it's always
always great
to chat
yeah thanks
Matt
I Max
I'm looking
forward to
the next
time we
have spaces
and I
think by
that time
we could
talk about
all the
interesting
use cases
that have
been explored
hopefully
can't can't
wait thanks
so much
thank you
thank you
thanks everyone
thank you
Host
Canto Public
from
Canto Dex
