I said what's up and nobody can hear me because I was muted. I have a very very special intro for this. Oh goodness is this singing another song? It's a song yeah it's a song
I like nerd out and I cannot lie. You other brothers can't deny. When I'm going into this face and I get it from your face with this wrapped in your face, you get sprung. There's my nerd out. Wrap for the
today. Oh my goodness, always a joy. And also you can tell that of the two of us, you're the writer of the group. I thought about on the right home. All right, well, let's go ahead and
get into it definitely. Yeah, let's get started. Everybody's here. Amazing. Everybody here? Yeah. Hello, guys. Can you hear me? All right. We can. Nice to hear. We can.
Let's see here. All right, so I'm Jason Michael Primrose, author and creative director of LCOA 2052. It's an art literature music infused sci-fi universe that champions diversity, resilience, and unleashing our inner potential. Born in web 3, pioneering born and
Web 2 actually pioneering Web 3. And we're minting now, which is very exciting. If you're into sci-fi, definitely check out at LCOA2052. Amazing. Hi, Jason. And I am Tara Fung. I'm the co-founder and CEO here at Cocreate. We enable innovative brands to unlock the power
of community utilizing the tools of Web3. And so we're an API first platform, which means that we allow our brand partners and creators and organizations to really take the forefront and build custom, exciting, engaging experiences, but just embed Web3 underneath the hood to power ownership and interoperability and game of experience.
So super excited for our show today. For those of you who are new here to nerd out, welcome. This is our nerdy playground where we come together to build bridges between the old or current internet and the next internet for our audience using curiosity, thoughtfulness,
and connection as our driving forces. So please be sure to retweet the space. Be ready and thinking of your questions. We'll save time for Q&A at the end as well as follow the host Jason and I and our guests to stay involved throughout. And also we will have a special announcement at the end of the show. So stay tuned.
I feel like we have that in the template. It's me, I don't always be true. But yes. So yes, for everyone that's here, definitely invite two to three friends, it's in the DM, no one's going to, yeah,
it like you or be like, I can't believe you set me this amazing show. So definitely invite people dropping into discord. We're going to have a really great conversation about intellectual property, which is kind of an enigma to most people. We have a lot of people that are creating and people that are kind of consuming and web 2 and web 3
And they know that there's an importance to intellectual property, but they don't know exactly how important it is. And I think that as we move deeper into Web 3 and decentralization and those types of concepts, we will start to see shifts in how IP is--
regulated and protected and all of that and also expanded. So one of those and thank yous out to Rug Radio, to Tara for your amazing hosting abilities and to Bad Girls Creative Club for bringing us together, the panelists and all of you audience members
for joining. Like I said in the space, we'll be unraveling the mystery of IP. Most importantly, defining what IP is and where the WebBree offers different rules of monetization path for storytellers and creatives in the future. We're really fortunate to have Powerhouse panelists with us to discuss this topic. So, Justin, I don't know how to pronounce
name. It's Alan East. Alan East. Oh, I would not have gotten that. Okay, Jess and Alan East of Story Co and Harold again, I would guess, but I don't know. A 10. A 10. Okay, Founder and Particle Collection. So hello, welcome.
Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you. You're good to meet you guys. Me too. So we want to start with an icebreaker, then we'll do introductions. We're going to play a quick game of "Would You Rather?" "Would You Rather Only Be Abel To Write For The Rest Of Your Life?" Or "Only Be Abel To Draw For The Rest Of Your Life?"
and we'll start with you, Justin.
I'm not much of a drawer, so I'd have to go with writing. It's something I'd like to do more of, honestly. But when you're building, most of my writing tends to be to investors or via email these days, unfortunately, and I get to witness all the amazing writing that's happening on our platform.
Yeah, I had to understand that, Harold. I would, I mean, I'm not much of a drawer either, but I would have to say to draw. Funnily, you know, my English is, I did my, all my schooling in English, but it's not my first language. I don't think I have a mother tongue.
I speak also French and so I actually don't, I never feel like I've mastered one language so maybe drawing is where I'd be able to express myself the best. I've never actually properly tried but I would say drawing for the purpose of that question.
love it. Tara what do you think? So I think a picture is worth a thousand words and I often use the thing I want to be able to show you versus tell you what I mean. I think there's so
much power in that because it doesn't take translation so as much as I love writing and I think that of the two I'm definitely a better writer than I am an artist I would definitely choose drawing but what about you Jason as someone who is an author?
Well, I feel like I'm already going to spend my life writing. I actually think that I feel like I can tell more or say more with words, with literature. So I think I'd choose writing. I love to draw, but I don't know that I'd want to draw for the rest of my life.
I'll leave that to somebody else. Yeah. Well, so now that we are all loose, Justin and Harold, for those that don't know you, can you take a moment and briefly introduce yourself and share what you're up to? Let's try to keep it to two minutes because we've got some great content that we definitely want to get to after this.
Go ahead, Jason. Since I'm first in line here, I'll go first. I suppose. Thanks, Harold. I'm Justin. I'm co-founder of Storyco with my brother, JP. My brother comes from a production in Hollywood background. I come from more of a traditional startup background, started a tech company in
2013 was acquired in 2018 jumped into the world of Web 3 shortly after that got involved in some of the early investment downs that are out there and started to meet amazing entrepreneurs and founders in the space and started to see what was actually happening behind the scenes and started to really believe in the idea
of new ownership models and new access models that Web3 offered. And it was about a year and a half ago where my brother and I got together decided to start story co based off our collective experiences. We saw collectively that well my brother really witnessed through his work in Hollywood how broken the
traditional system is that you have to get an agent, get a manager, move to Hollywood, move to LA, and work your way up through this very broken system. That's full of nepotism and sexism and racism and all these other things. And we thought that there was a better way ultimately to create premium
content and that's how StoryCo was born. And StoryCo is a platform that we are building to allow creators from anywhere and everywhere to be able to create new premium content and build that content out, release that content, distribute it to a group of fans, bring those fans in,
monetize those fans and make those fans co-creators and co-owners of their IP. And we are building out our first production right now. It's called the Disco Ball. We're releasing it actually next week and to our producer token community, which is a kind of private collection that we've established within our ecosystem.
And we have some amazing Hollywood talent that's building that, but now we're starting to actually give ownership over that IP to our creative community that we're bringing in to help extend and expand the Discombal, which is very exciting. Amazing and so happy to have you here. Harold, why don't you go?
Sure, just in that sense, obviously very very cool and really interesting on my end my background also is in the startup world I Worked at a company called rocket internet for us for some years where we launched let's say the whole idea there was a
idea to launch businesses in 90 days or idea to revenue. So the bed a few times and then went on my own entrepreneurial journey and spanning different sectors from health foods to MedTech more recently and in 2020
Part of the topic is about the fact that we are in the process of making sure that we are not in the process of making sure that we are not in the process of making sure that we are not in the process of making sure that we are not in the process of making sure that we are not in the process of making sure that we are not in the process of making sure that we are not in the process of making sure that we are not in the process of making#
We tokenized Banksy's love as in the air. The psychonic work on canvas, you've most likely seen the image, it's the protagonist kind of throwing a bouquet of flowers rather than a mulch of cocktail. And essentially we split up the ownership of that work of art in 10,000 ways.
and we had 2,800 unique collectors of that piece. And more recently, a couple of weeks ago, we just tokenized HR Geeger's alien sculpture. So this crazy 3 meter long sculpture of an alien that we unveiled in Lisbon, it was the basis for
the alien in the 1979 movie Alien that became the franchise Alien Predator etc. And yeah the idea is really to allow to democratize the fine art experience for most people to for more people to be able to to collectively own and govern fine art.
incredible. I've invested in some fine art myself that was fractionalized. It wasn't tokenized through master works and I think that makes so much sense to open up. Yeah, that's kind of the nuance that we're doing while we're using you know
the RCC 721s or NFTs specifically. So you wouldn't be saying you invested in the Banksy, you'd be saying you collected because you'd have unique pieces of that work. But yeah, the cool that you've experienced the masterworks more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's go ahead and
And I've been, welcome both. Thank you for being here. This today's show is a show about unraveling IP. And one of the things that we really like to do is while this is nerd out so often, we talk about terms and everyone uses them without actually having a deep understanding or on a definitions level of what that term actually means.
So given y'all's experience in this space starting off with a softball, how would you define intellectual property and Justin, why don't we start with you? Man, I don't know if I'm going to give you a perfect definition here, but the way I think about
intellectual properties is something that you can own essentially and you can build off of. That's the way we think about it. We think about it very specifically from an entertainment landscape where IP is really the kernel of the thing that has value and the extensions of that IP are the things
that ultimately you can create value out of it, you can monetize. So, you know, the IP in Star Wars' case is all the characters of Star Wars. It's the actual canon of Star Wars. And then an extension of that is, and the monetization of that is the movies and the theme parks and the movies.
and the conference is and everything else that comes out of it. So that's kind of the way we think about it is that it's the corpus of the thing that has value ultimately. Yeah, no, that's great. And Harold, would you add anything to that? No, that's
That's a good definition, right? It's kind of the protection for something that's intangible that allows, you know, for, it's kind of like an invisible fence that allows for innovation to flourish, to protect, to protect
what people have created and to allow for those creators to be able to earn a living off of it and kind of like their passports to explore more of what they've come up with. Yeah and tied to this a quick follow up question. So, historic
in what ways has the use of IP fueled innovation, bridged equity gaps and fostered creativity and maybe on the flip side how have you seen it intellectual property in the use of it be exploited? Do either of you have thoughts on either side of that question?
I think historically the way we've seen intellectual property really work and the creativity around it has been very centralized in nature. Right? If you think about Disney as probably the most interesting example, Disney started what now over
100 years ago and Disney has a corporation that is centralized they control their IP very very closely and they guard it very very closely. In fact if you as a fan want to use their IP in any way if you want to create a side scan or a car in fact this was this happened
where Disney actually sued someone who was building a lightning-be-Queen car and they didn't want that. And so they wanted to control it. They wanted to be part of their ecosystem. They want to control the way that the brand grows ultimately. And as fans, you get to participate in that intellectual property in very specific ways, in ways in which they want
I want you to participate in it. And so that's traditionally, I think, the way that I think about IP and the current landscape of IP. Now Web 3 is obviously changing that a bit and I'm sure we'll talk about that. But that's the perspective that I've kind of always seen IP through. Absolutely. Harold, anything that you want to add
I mean look, it depends on what sphere we're thinking of, right? It of course fuels innovation when you're talking about pharmaceuticals. Of course there's the yin and the yang of each side.
pharmaceutical companies, of course, they're incentivized to do research because they can patent the drugs and generate revenue off it. Of course, there's the other side of that. For artists, it's what allows them to protect what they're doing and build
build off of it. Now of course the other side of it is on the legal side is the patent trolls that whole IP or you have either the big centralized corporations like Justin was talking about but then you have these individuals or
entities that go and buy up a bunch of patents and then increase the costs and generate more risk for other businesses and other kind of creators trying to use it. So it's a double-edged sword, I think, and in many, in the one case for me, that's the most, or the one that I've kind of
looked at the most and the one that I think is the biggest gray areas that is that fair use, right? And I guess you have, and what Justin was talking about with the McQueen car, what constitutes as fair use. And there's been a few recent examples where some fair use precedent has been a little bit thrown up in
the year. So it's, it is an interesting topic. I'm no lawyer, right? So I'll stick to what I know. But yeah, there's also some really interesting pieces of IP that have now become part of the public domain. Very recently, I think Winnie the Pooh is one of them, right? So the recent like thriller
or horror movie about Winnie the Pooh came out and I don't know the Disney umbrella. We're going to see some of this IP also start to become part of the public good and now all of a sudden the public can start to use these pieces of IP that have historically been contained within these ecosystems, these centralized companies.
Disney now to be able to expand on them and do interesting things with them. And so we're just at the beginning of that. I think Dorothy and Alice are coming as well. And so we're just at the beginning of this Mickey Mouse is coming also, but Disney has protected like own has protected new versions of Mickey Mouse, but not the original.
original steamboat Willie Mickey Mouse and so some of the some of these public domain pieces of IP it will be really interesting to see what the public actually does with them. No, that's so great and Jason I know you want to get in here. I mean when I think about IP it's like intellectual property is the foundation which encourages
and rewards works of creativity or development like net new development because it allows you to protect and to monetize your works and that can be used for good. It can be used to encourage that development or it can be used for bad. It can be used to actually carve out and stop innovation because you're like, "Uh-uh, this is mine.
can't build on it, they can't create with it. So it's two sides of the same coin and it's fascinating to see and to think through some of the use cases of where intellectual property is going into the public domain like oh my goodness what are people going to do with Mickey Mouse? It's probably going to be worse than when he the poo. But Jason I know you want to get in here.
Yeah, no, this is really great and I think one of the things I realized being a huge fan of Marvel and I mean even technically my story was developed from the intellectual property of a book I read in like
when I was eight and it was this book about a boy who finds a dragon. And I changed everything. However, my imagination really sprung, like the story really sprung forth from this other book that already existed with this other character that was already real. And so I think like that's interesting because
it's like there's so much fanfiction and imagine if there was a world where I could have built on that story, you know, kind of in that ecosystem. The other thing I think about when it comes to intellectual property is really the the idea that you either do it for yourself or you do it for somebody else for the most part. So you have creatives like if you think
about like the creators of Avatar the last airbender, for example, they were working for I think it was Netflix, correct me if I'm wrong, but Netflix owns that. So all of the commercialization of that, the adaptations, all of that, those people were employed by Netflix to create content and Netflix
clicks owns the content they create because of the types of contracts that they were involved with. And so that's a great example of like these people have this wildly, you know, insane idea that then really took off and they really only made, you know, maybe some points on it, but they don't own it. They can't go do anything
with it. Versus maybe someone like, I don't know, JK Rowling or Georgia or Martin or George Lucas for example, someone who owned his IP outright and made $4 million off of it on a sale to Disney, you know, and probably still making some
percentage after I don't really know, but that's how I feel like it's fueled innovation and rich equity guests because you have people that can come in with these great ideas and change the landscape of things like animation, film, television, all of that literature included when it comes to diversity.
And then it's exploited because you can also have people come in and they can basically only say hey, I made that and that's there. That's like the most that they kind of get out of it. So that brings me to unless anyone wants to counter Justin. Well, I was just going to say I totally vibe with what you're saying and it's speaking
speaks to the history of what's happened with the internet and streaming services where streaming services have started to own the content and perpetuity across the world, right? Because of the way that the internet works versus beforehand, you had cable, DVD, you had syndication revenue, and you could have ownership
you could have independent creators creating things, still selling a piece of that to TNT or Paramount or wherever, and still getting ownership and participation in residual sales. But now with Netflix, they buy it outright upfront and they own it in perpetuity forever in every single territory or
across the world. And so it creates this paradigm where creators are no longer incentivized to create new and original pieces of work because they're not going to be able to extend themselves and own it themselves. And we, you know, I think that the calling of Web 3 or at least Parsley Web 3 and now AI is like fused with this.
is that creators can now create new and original work and hopefully distribute those works to a fan community to build out that IP. This is what JK Rowling did. You mentioned it, which George R. Martin did through the lens of books, right? Those are IP incubators, right? Really is what they are. They own that piece of IP and then once they own
they have a fanbase around it, they can then have much more ownership over the way that IP grows and expands and have way more value associated with it that comes back to them. Justin, I don't know, I don't know this, but when you know Netflix right date, I would imagine they're just, so you have creators, I guess, right
writing scripts or pilots or I don't know exactly how it works but then Netflix just buys it up the whole IP or is Netflix or in the likes they actually like putting in resource and basically helping just like a company to hire engineers the code that's
written is owned by the company and that's kind of standard because without the support of the business, then there would be no IP to begin with. Yeah, you go either way, right? I mean, in situation like, let's use Squid Game as an example where he, the founder of Squid Game, had a script and he
been basically trying to sell that script out to Hollywood for a long time. He was in writing rooms himself, graduate of USC Film School, Netflix bought it outright. He made, I think, $5 million on Squid Game and it's worth $900 million to the Netflix ecosystem. He's got no upside now on the second deal where they re-up.
up on Squid Game Season 2, he's going to make a lot more money, right? And he has much more negotiating powers result than that. But Netflix owns that piece of IP outright. Now in a situation like George R. Martin where he wrote Game of Thrones himself, they buy only a piece of that IP. Now you can do it either way, right?
Netflix can buy the entire piece of IP. But more likely what they do is they just buy the television rights or the streaming rights to that IP. And you can still monetize that IP through a game, through merch, through a conference, through a movie, things like that, where you are only selling a piece of the IP to Netflix and you
can charge a lot more to Netflix because you already have this built-in fan base around what you're doing. I think that's like the power of building this community around this original kind of piece of IP versus selling just a script that has no fandom to a Netflix. Yeah, I guess they had them, of course, they know the fact that he was shopping around for so long and they had the
of negotiating power in that case. Yeah, exactly. It really depends on me. Because then you know, there's no Squid Game and there's no, you know, there's no game video game made up the back of it and all that stuff. Right, right. Exactly. So let's move on to our next question.
This is great. That was great back and forth. In Web 3, how do particle collection and story could see the balance between protecting IP and promoting new levels of collaboration? For example, who do we need to protect the community owned IP from? Is there any for protection of IP in this new version of the internet?
I'm curious to hear from you first, Harold, especially because you're dealing with intellectual property right now that already exists. Yeah, look, I think the main thing is you want to, you want to win with art, you want to protect the artists
IP. And that's from other people being able to commercialize it, first of all, because they are the only ones we should be able to. But also from other things like artists should have control over where their art is
Or some say in where there are artists being displayed and a lot of artists they do, right? You need their explicit approval when you're doing or you should have their approval when you're doing a group show. They want to be, you know, they may not want to be shown next to an artist whose values
you know, don't match their own. So I think you want to create the you want to protect the the artists ethos and and and you know their creation. The on on the particle side, right? It's it's a unique one because we're not selling any
We are using the image to illustrate specific ownership in these works of art. So, completely transforming it. You're not buying the image and you don't have
access to the image in high res and you know nothing says that you can go and print it out on t-shirts and sell it so it's a little different but I think the main thing you want to protect is of course the artists copy right
I see very similarly where artists are going to want to protect their intellectual property, regardless of how ultimately that expands. I think that there are ways in which you can create systems
and tools to allow for fans to, you know, fans and creators to come in and expand that IP and make it part of their own and have a piece of IP or a group of pieces of IP that are owned by a collective collective community ultimately. But, you know, the way we think about it at Story Co is that the core
creator, the person who actually creates the original work should be at least should determine how they want that IP to be grown, right? With Disco Ball, our writer, it's kind of co-killing, amazing writer wrote the Halo series on Paramount Plus, there's a bunch of Netflix stuff. We've given him the say over like,
Hey, how do you want the community to co-own this with you and have control over the story, if at all? And what we've determined is that the best way to do that is to have creators who come in and contribute their creativity to that IP. They're adding value to that IP and we want to give them ownership.
of that IP, which is partial ownership, and have some voting control. But that voting control can really then be determined by the core creator to say, "I'm going to be responsible for what goes into core canon." But if somebody wants to come to me and say, "I want to create the version of the Mandalorian," which is this extension of the Star Wars universe, and it's its own separate
world, then that creator should have, then some say or primarily say, over what is Corcannon within the Mandalorian universe. And so I think there's like some semblance of like community-controlled IP that we're developing within the storyco ecosystem that's really a choose your own adventure.
and is the legal block, the building blocks for how ultimately the core creator wants to disseminate that IP and control of that IP. And maybe staying there for a second, Justin, because I think that that's such a helpful example and one of the things that outsiders looking in think about when they hear
And so, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know#
creators, but if you could dive into one example in more detail of how does it work tactically if someone is part of this and they want to create something, what are the web three tools you're using to enable that and what are the control mechanisms that that creator has at their disposal?
Yeah, sure. So within the disco ball Kyle Killing is the writer of the disc balls. I said and we are creating a creator pool of equity ownership over the IP of the disco ball and that is being represented on chain through a synthetic point system that that is not
transferable for the creators who are creating within the disco ball who are answering these what we call bounties, but we call them co-creation opportunities. To come in, we did our first one with this amazing illustrator out of Nigeria named Anu. He's a 21-year-old art student in Lagos, Nigeria. Now he's
working with Kyle Killin and Shelby and Sandy. He's an amazing pro like really a claimed artist out of Los Angeles. Our musicians are great nominated and it's the guy who never be able to enter the Hollywood system. I don't want to say never but very unlikely he'd be able to enter the Hollywood system otherwise. But yet now he's creating these series of illustrations and panels
for a first chapter for the Disco Ball and they're incredible and he's going to get ownership over creative control and ownership over the future of the Disco Ball universe. His points are going to translate to an actual voting system where he can help determine the future of the Quarkannon, the future of directions of future creations within the Disco Ball.
And then we're also creating a point system and a reward system for fandom as well where we have what are called what's called a story pass. It's a NFT, but it's a sold-bound NFT where it's non-transpirable again and you earn rewards what we call story moans.
that get added to your story past for various contributions that you have as a fan to the Disco Ball Universe for engaging in specific chapters and and and consuming them for engaging in certain we have alternative reality game elements to this and solving puzzles and clues and then those fans are also going to be able to get rewards and
points out of them and we also want to be able to give them fans ownership as well. We're talking about this actively with our attorneys, about the how he tests and securities and there's a lot of regulatory kind of issues right now that is happening at the SEC level and ambiguity around that and so but that's how we're thinking about it at this level.
But there's always Kyle has determined that he wants a committee ultimately that's comprised of him, the core creators, fans, and some some of the other creators that are responsible for making kind of a more important decisions around core canon around the universe so that not everything is like this big wide vote right there.
needs to be some sort of delegation, some sort of committee voting process so that you can have more streamlined decisions within an ecosystem and make quicker decisions. And we're still trying to iron out what goes to like an entire band community for voting, what goes the entire creative community for voting and what just goes to this committee for determining what gets
through what makes it cool. Canon, what gets funded, all of those types of decisions. It's so. Yeah. Oh, go ahead, Jason. Now, I was just going to say it's so interesting because I remember like I remember kind of doing research on projects like Forgotten Runes, Wizards called and the way Moonbirds
operates and people like Suzuki, "World of Women," where we were... And I think for me it was this big vision of what if Stanley had basically given everyone who was a Marvel fan, the characters, and said, "You write the comics."
So I think like this a lot of this concept is so experimental and it needs structure and it needs guidance because people are just going to wake up and start writing stories tomorrow or start expanding on intellectual property that they discovered or bought into right away if they've never done it.
it or thought about it, but you know, don't have any experience. So I think the way you're doing is very interesting because, you know, similarly, LCOA, it's like you're giving people a playground to play in because otherwise it's kind of just a bunch of dirt and you would have to build the
that you'd kind of experience on your own with just a PFP, for example. So I like that there are structures in place. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough as like a true CCO or CC0 model where you have these PFPs and you're able to have aesthetically do anything with them like the Board of A.P. Universe as an example.
It creates a really tough dynamic because you get all these threads and so many of them fizz-loud. We've seen that in the Bordea, Biaq Club community already. That's happened. You get all these little threads that happen and people trying to create and people thinking that they're going to create with these PFPs. But the reality is that it doesn't really
It's not a well-wield machine, certainly. And also, I think the biggest problem with it is it's kind of like a franchise model without any help from the actual like mother ship, right? Uglabs doesn't do a lot to help their franchisees.
community to expand their IP and to fund them or do much around that. I know Moonbirds has like a million and a half dollar treasury to be able to do that. But I think it's ultimately somewhat problematic to think that all these creators are going to come in, create with that individual piece of IP, that NFT, what we believe
believe is that people want to tap onto the mothership. And the mothership should be then a helpful agent and provide tooling to help people then expand the core IP more than these random extensions of the IP. That's just our own general thesis. And who knows if it's going to play out correctly.
Well, Harold, I think we'd love to get you in here and just, you know, what you're doing is quite different because you're taking physical paintings and you're tokenizing them. What are some of the traditional legal roadblocks you've run into as you've incorporated Web 3 into your business model?
Yeah, we've explored this quite a lot. The main kind of IP law case that we base what we do on is fair use. And we wouldn't have that problem if we were doing something like the Masterworks model that you
you alluded to where you just own shares and there's no kind of image there at all. You just have shares of a certain painting or whatever work of art. What we believe is that ownership enhances the enjoyment of art and that we want you to actually feel a connection
connection, personal relationship with your ownership in the art, not just say like you did, I've invested in let's say a basket. And so we, the way we've done it with the Banksy is if you imagine a grid of 100 by 100, there's 10,000 unique little plots of land on the painting and you own
One or multiple of them with the sculpture of Geeger's alien sculpture We've we have a 3d model of it We've sliced it up 500 ways and so you have a unique slice which allows you to have that personal relationship with your piece as Close as it gets to actually feeling full ownership of having the entire world
work. But in order to do that, we need to use the image and not sell the image. So the fair use argument that we have is that it's transformative and we're using it to convey a completely different concept and it gives it a
a whole different meaning. So the slice of the alien itself has no similarity or likeness to the whole sculpture. It's digital, it's not physical, of course, as well. And with the Banksy painting, we're using the image, but it's been transformed multiple in multiple ways, which
essentially gives it a whole new meaning. But it's just recently there was this actually, you know, warhol is very famous for having used photographs that he didn't take and transforming them, you know, the Marilyn Monroe or Prince and then making whole new art out of it. But that photograph has
a photographer behind it that owns the IP to it. And he's been on the foundation and himself before that have been immune to that because of fair use. But more recently, there was a case with the Warhol Foundation lost because they licensed a
prints, a warhol painting of prints, which is called orange prints, to a magazine that we're doing the front cover on prints. And they lost the fair use argument because in this case it was being used in the same way as the original photograph would have been used. It was not
being used in this kind of artistic way that Warhol was creating with. And so that's really interesting because it kind of throws a lot of the fair use arguments or decades of fair use arguments out the window, but with a nuance because it was being used with the same intent
that the original photograph would have been used in. So it's all, it's quite, it's an interesting one where we speak to our lawyers that actually work a lot with film and music. It's a bit of a, it's not really a science and it often gets argued
in court, but for us again, we're not very much so we're not kind of selling you any any likeness to that image. It's purely using the image so that everybody who co-owns that work can have their own personal relationship to it.
Thank you so much for that amazing example of fair use because I could never have explained the concept in my life, but that it's a very clear cut this kind of idea of if you're taking something and using it the way that it would be used in its original form that that's
is infringement. So that's really, really interesting. I'm glad that you both got to speak a little bit about your kind of your businesses and kind of what you have going on. I think before we close, I'd love to have you kind of just show, you know, what you're minting, what myths you have coming up
and how people can find those things. So I'll ask this question and then we'll do that before we go to questions. What opportunities and challenges do granting commercial days and rights to holders or decentralizing IP ownership present for the creators? Are there any ethical considerations?
with this in a digital realm. Yeah, it's a tough one to answer. I was speaking with a group of punks that we're talking about.
own the IP to your specific punk, the greater IP is owned by Yuga now. But if I now, I don't know, make a cartoon with my crypto punk and he kind of is drinking and doing tons
of drugs and this like cartoon becomes super, I can do whatever I want, right? Okay, I do that. But then I sell my punk, the next person who now owns the IP, they can't go and take down what I've done with it. So there's all this, these kind of things also come into play when you have the
the IP to your in those PFP projects with so I my thoughts are a little all over the place on on that one and I don't think I'm best placed to really answer it but I do I do think that it does allow like Justin was saying of course when
It's fragmented when you don't have the mothership that can support you and steer you in the right direction. But also, what it does do is it allows for even more creativity.
I didn't even think about that about commercializing your PFB and then selling it to somebody else and having that product exist still. That's very interesting. Justin.
Can you repeat the question? What opportunities and challenges do creating commercialization rights to holders or decentralizing happy ownership present for the creators? Are there any ethical considerations?
associated with this in a digital realm. And I don't want to talk about this specifically. I'm talking about generally creating a macro or a trend of this as it pertains to this next version of the internet.
Yeah, I mean, I think we're entering really uncharted waters, especially as it relates to AI and image generation and video generation as it relates to AI and
I think Harold talked about this a little bit with what he was talking about with the idea of IP and the way that artists want to hold on to the IP. And now with AI, there's already ethical concerns over how these AI
models are using existing works of art, existing written works to be able to leverage new pieces of art that are modeled in certain styles. So I think that there's definitely some ethical concerns over that. I don't think that with Web3, I think we've seen some
ethical concerns also the way that certain projects have launched tokens and have tried to bring fans in or people in monetizing them in a way and not living up to the expectations of the project. But on the other hand, I think that there's like a tremendous opportunity for
or all these new technologies, if harness correctly, to unleash a tremendous amount of creativity. But we just need the safeguards in place to protect people, protect IP, protect investments, and those just aren't there yet.
We're in this middle period where I think people are kind of skeptical and people are getting unfortunately, you know, scammed and but I think that all that will be rectified through additional technology and regulation and allow a lot of the creativity to actually flourish at least that's my hope.
All right, well let's do a quick reset for anyone who has joined. If you're new to Nerd Out, welcome. We use this type of panel style format every week to continue building the bridge between Web 2 and Web 3 for our audience. And we bring amazing panelists like Justin, Harold,
to come and share their area of expertise and dive into how the world works across these two areas, if you will. So we're going to go ahead and move on to questions. So be thinking through what you would like to ask the panelists. Please be conscious of keeping it very targeted.
mentioning who you're directing your question to specifically, but while we're waiting for people to raise their hands to quote unquote "come on stage," Justin and Harold, why don't you all share anything that you want to show or that's upcoming for your company that you'd love to inform this group about?
Sure, we, so like I said, we're currently there's a there's a sale that's live right now for this incredible sculpture by HR Geeger of the alien or Necronome It's it was the it's one of six sculptures. It's the only one that was actually made
by Giger himself, the rest were made by his studio assistants after he passed away. And we've kind of particalized it into 500 particles or NFTs that represent ownership. So getting one of those gets you into the co-ownership of that sculpture. The sculpture travels around the world
it was in Lisbon, it's now in Prague, it'll be going to, I believe it's Hong Kong after that, so in major institutions and galleries to kind of put in front of and build up that artworks, CV if you want, and provenance. And yeah, as a co-owner and as a owner of particles of the specific
work, you get to govern it, decide on where it goes next, and importantly, decide on whether or not you want to sell it, and distribute it out the proceeds of that sale. So if you go to particle collection,
That sounds amazing. Looking forward to that.
I can't wait to be a part of it. I've always wanted to own a premium piece of art so maybe this is the right time for me. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.#
Discord to hang out in learn from other creators So come on in we've got co creation opportunities that we're launching next week to To respond to and and if you win and and and participate in the disco ball and add to the disco ball you get to own a piece of the disco ball
In addition to that, we'll be launching the DiscoBall chapter one in beta. It's this amazing 3D immersive experience that we built out the entire rendering experience 3D experience. It's like almost like you have a 3D camera moving through this environment with amazing
A-list actors, voicing the characters. It's just an absolutely incredible story that has this underlying alternative reality game component. So if you're into puzzles or games, alternative reality games come in and participate and maybe you can also earn a piece of ice
a piece of the DiscoBIP eventually and certainly some future NFTs that will be doing a collection probably in about three, four months maybe. That's going to be epic. It's going to be different than like your traditional PFP. We think that's totally played out and this will have relevance to the
story and it's going to be by Shelby and Sandy, these amazing famous artists who Harold happy to introduce them. It might be interested in either them or their community of like amazing artists. And so yeah come in, be a part of this
storyco ecosystem. It's like shorthand. Amazing Justin. Yeah, let's connect after this as well. Right? Love it. Connected on nerd out. So I don't see any questions. If anyone does want to ask one, feel free to raise your hand. But otherwise, I think we can go ahead and close out for the day Jason.
Yeah, sounds good. Thank you so much to our panelists for joining us today. And absolutely, thank you to our radio for supporting us. And don't forget to check out LCOA 2052.
what we've got going on there, we'll quickly show. We are releasing animated character cards, one character at a time that belong to the larger Welfth Children of Andromeda universe, and each of those characters has their own origin comics. So the first character we're launching is Alistair Adams.
And his origin comic is called the arrival. It is about the the thing that changes the future of humanity, basically, crazy landing witnessed by this little boy, Alistair Adams that, you know, turns him into this.
unlikely hero and that you get to see that all in this very cool 36-page digital comic. And yeah, and then of course co-create is amazing. I'll let Tara speak about that. And yeah.
Yeah, so if you are a creator, if you are a brand or an organization looking to unlock the power of community, we've built a full stack API solution to help you do that where you can focus on your experience layer and your community without having to think about
We're going to be doing a lot of work. We're going to be doing a lot of work. We're going to be doing a lot of work. We're going to be doing a lot of work. We're going to be doing a lot of work. We're going to be doing a lot of work. We're going to be doing a lot of work. We're going to be doing a lot of work. We're going to be doing a lot#
here today. I want to thank you Jason and Harold for taking part. Jason and I are off next week for July 4th holidays, but we will be returning the following with another awesome nerd out episode. So stay tuned and thanks again for being here today everyone.
called Jason Jason which I think is so funny because I was waiting for it happen. I don't know. Justin when you grew up. Well, no, it just happened. Jason all the time. All the time. I was born in the 80s. I was so frustrated getting called Justin and I tried to change my name.
to Joseph. I got in trouble for it actually because my teacher didn't know who I was. But yes, thank you all for coming. I love it. It's a terrible rest and we will see you again soon. Thanks, Teri. Thanks, Jason. Bye guys. Bye.