If you can hear us, please wave in the audience.
All right, I see the waves coming up.
All right, so we are live at NFC, Liz, which is super exciting. I love the ambiance of this room. It's great. Yeah, it's like it's high energy. So I'll describe it. Yeah, I think it's a little bit sci-fi too. It's got like this purple.
Vibe I love the way they did the boost setup. I love the open floor and it feels like more of an experience than a sales Floor. Yeah, which I think is really really good. There's not everywhere. It's just like people but not too many people. It's yeah, great vibe. Yeah, it's kind of like Lisbon because it's like people but not too many people here
I love that we're here together after over a year of like communications and surviving the bear. So we spoke about education recently when it comes to newcomers in the space and also existing people looking to deepen their knowledge of the technology. I'm curious what you think comes first.
More friendly tech and experiences or more education about what exists now.
I mean, they both work together so closely. I think that we can have as much education as we want about stuff that work now, but like by the time people consume that content, that stuff's going to be outdated. And so it's like a constant battle.
to stay up to date on the current tech. And it's going to keep happening because it's necessary. But the end goal is getting to a point where the tech is so good that no one needs to be on board it. No one really needs to be on board it on how to use an iPhone or a laptop.
top or the internet or a website or you don't need onboarding for that. When that disappears is when crypto and web 3 and F is mainstream. The tech has a few leaps and bounds to go but we'll get there.
like when we are in a more tech friendly, like environment. I mean, I think then it's how to use the tech to create products and services and experiences instead of like, currently so much of it is
How do you tech? Understanding the tech, how to download Metamask and like set up a ledger, a cold wallet, uh, as what is that? But when that is abstracted away, then it'll be like how to use the tech to do cool things. And that's like currently it's very complex. The barrier to entry is so high. But then
What experiences can you create what worlds can you create what relationships between fan or customer or consumer and creator and and grand company like those of the interesting things that I think people will be working on now but because of how much on boarding to understand how to use a wallet and everything it's like
It's difficult to really get that massive option, but once it's very easy, then It'll be like all creativity and all experiential and yeah, it'll be really exciting Yeah, we I had a conversation with Tara my co-host on the show and we talked about the issue is that
technology is the hero of the story, not the story itself or not the product. And so when they demo new Apple products or whatever, they're not telling you what they used to so that your eyes could follow objects and then pinpoint what things that you highlight in the
user is just the end result is just the end result. You're just excited about that. And and if you had to explain to someone that they needed to know like how the technology interacted with their their eye in order to select those items. I mean, you're you're losing people there. So you said that you love writing, which I think is really cool.
I love you too. I think we're on opposite sides though. I'm fiction. You're very nonfiction. Yeah. I'm very nonfiction. So where did that love of writing come from? And what's your perfect scenario for your career as a writer and educator? Yeah, I mean, I guess, ever since I can remember I was reading because a kid I was like, you know, the kid with the
torch under the covers reading books and then during school my favorite subject is English and like English literature reading and writing and like I wanted to be a lawyer which is a very different type of writing and I'm glad I didn't get on that path but it's
You're gonna write a front end. Yes. Yes. It's like that may seem like a reasonable upstanding career that makes you want to blow your brains out. No offense to lawyers out there. No, I'm sure it's fun in other ways, but so I've always had that love for writing back when I was a poker player. I had a poker blog and I just I just like writing. I tried to start other blogs.
that never took off because they were like traveling through like there's a bazillion of those and so when I got into web 3 I was like oh I like this space and I like writing let me start writing about it and it's just like that's when it clicked and so my ideal writing scenario I guess is honestly just like away from all
And then it comes together and then editing. So it's just like having the freedom in the space to just write and create is like my ideal scenario. And I'm trying to get back to that. I had that before and then I tried taking on a lot of different initiatives, which was fun and a great learning experience. But now I'm trying to strip away a lot of the noise and get back to.
I love to hear how what kind of took you and these new these other directions and then what brought you back to what you really were passionate like our passionate about. Yeah, so I mean like in Web 3 it's it's very easy to get pulled in a lot of directions and
I'm sure you know. I mean, it happens to everyone, especially during the bull run. It's like, oh, that's a great idea. Let's do it. Oh, yeah, let's partner. Let's collaborate. Uh, you want to jump on a 30 minute call and how about you have this discord bot to your server? How about you launch this and come to this event? It's just, it's very easy. And like for me#
I've always been, I guess, like,
my default is like saying yes to things. I'm like a people pleaser, but like also just like very open-minded and like, yeah, that's great. Let's do it. That sounds fun. Let's let's go for it. And it was never a problem before because I use a professional poker player and like I didn't get asked for that that much stuff. And so like my calendar in a week was like, I didn't never had a#
Oh, lunch on Thursday if I had one with a friend or with someone like so getting into this space when all of a sudden these these like opportunities started popping up. I was like, yeah, let's do that. Let's do that. And then with Zenn Academy, which we launched in November 2021, it started off like I didn't have a roadmap and it was a big plus. It's like double edge sword, which like, all right, let's#
And then all of a sudden I look back now a year, 18 months later, it's like, oh, we did all these things. Do they really move the needle that much? And some of the many of the things we did I'm very proud of, but a lot of the things we did are just like, eh, is like probably the best way of putting it. And now I'm like, all right, let's try and strip away that and get#
Honestly, personally, I want to create more educational content. That's what I love doing. And I miss it. I want to get back to that. But I want to ask you, what's your ideal scenario for writing? And I mean, you've been doing this for a very long time as well. Yeah. So yeah, I think 30 years of writing is about mostly fiction.
I'm not a big blog person. I really don't know. I don't know. I don't like I like time the truth. That's not it. I like to to to mask my beliefs inside of like fantasy worlds because I think it's easier to digest them that way. But my ideal scenario is
is like writing in the country side of Europe somewhere and all I'm doing is like writing novels and writing comics and like putting them out. And to your point, I mean conferences are amazing. I love the experience like I've been to Comic Con standing at Comic Con and different Comic Con's actually around the world. And I love getting to meet people.
people that have read my book are interested in it. And that person to person experiences really how you build really strong community. But when I'm writing, I don't have friends like we're not talking. I'm in a hole. I'm in my world. I'm crafting. I'm ideating. I'm synthesizing. And I've got to get it all out.
I can't have anything interrupting that experience. And then I normally come out of that, you know, send somebody else an editor and then I go back into it when I'm editing. And it's the same thing because you can't, you can't produce with all the noise. You know, it's really difficult to be focused and it's really difficult to produce.
at the maybe the rate that you want to when you're being pulled in a lot of different directions. So I totally totally understand that it's it's kind of scaling back for me it was remembering that I'm an author first and which leads me to my next question. Did you know you were going to be a CEO and so
So what was that like because yeah, when I got funded by Beatsdown for example, I basically went from one to the CEO like a week. Yeah, and I was like, wait a minute. What's happening? I'm so curious to hear about your experience with that. Uh, no. The answer is no. I never in my life thought I would be a CEO. It's still very weird to think about myself as that.
I like launch an academy and after launch I didn't think of myself as the CEO found or anything I was like hey, I just put a project out there Let's figure it out as we go along. We got a discord. We got a community. Let's go and then it was probably like I don't know two or three months later I was doing I don't know if I was coming to an event or during some interviews on the NA hospital
like what is your title or role or bio and I didn't really have one. I sat down and I looked at other people and I was like, I guess like I am that's kind of my title now. I'm off of the Academy of Art Company, a business and a team and I'm the CEO. When else is someone has to be so I guess it's got to be me and I've learned I'm not a good CEO.
It's like one of those things that like you don't know until you try maybe I can get to a point where I am one but like There's a reason they get paid the big bucks There's a reason that it's such a big role. It's because you need experience like managing a team project management Resource management time management. It's like it's a lot of management and operational
stuff, which I don't have the background in. So I've been learning along the way and it's been a fascinating and fun learning experience. And I think I've done some things well and many other things not as well. But I've just come to terms with the fact that it's not the thing that I'm that I love doing or inherently good at. And so
I'm trying to now sort of like find other people who are really good at operational stuff and give them the business side of things to run. And I've always sort of wanted to do that, but I've never really succeeded in probably delegating that much of that much of the business. And then I just want to be all for first, right? First content creator first.
And then everything else seconds. Yeah. I mean, is it similar for you? Oh my god. Well, see the problem is that I spent a lot of years doing Brandon project management. So I'm I think I was supposed to do this yesterday. I'm used to being the creative behind the creative. So I'm a very much an executor. Yeah. When it comes to initiatives. But I'm not.
a process person because I'm creative and businesses cannot function without process. Yes. And so if I can't not I can set up processes, but I'm not really good at doing them myself. Yeah. And there's been so when you're building a team, you really need to know like how people work. And so there's like an idea to process.
Yeah, it's process execution people. Yeah, so they can take processes, but they can't build them. And so I definitely found that I'm not a great CEO. I'm a great chief creative person, which I titled myself Chief Creative Officer. And my ideal partner would be someone who did legal, who did business affair.
I mean, I'm not a tech person, my trade. And so we were building like a
our website last year and the planning of contracts. I needed to learn a lot about us marketing contracts working how they interact with each other and the blockchain. And that was great knowledge, but I never want to do it again. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's kind of like that's kind of the thing. What do you think is the most important, non tangible utility that we
can provide to communities holding on right now. Non-tangible utility. I mean, it might be, I think it's like, it's almost cliche, but like the community, like the network effects, the networking, the, the,
the events and the avenues and the places where people can come and meet each other. Because I think like, especially now at this time in the market, it's like the bubble has popped and the people that are still here, still attending conferences, still treating into Twitter space
is still reading newsletters, still paying attention, are for the most part more serious and legit and here for the long term and the right reasons. And if you're in the space, this is the time to be connecting and networking with people because I bet looking around, I bet there's people in this room that are going to be the next whatever,
jobs. The next founder of UniSwap or OpenC or Blur or whatever platform or protocol or D-gods or Apache penguins or board like it's just like they're here they're like we're rubbing shoulders with them and so for a community if you can provide avenues that they can network and meet each other and connect I really think that's like
the best one of the best utilities in the space is networking and a lot of people on like it's not the easiest thing to just like, I'll just go out there and network like what are you going to just call DM a lot of people or you know just show up to a visit. No, it's like you create an event a space, a get together where community members can get to know one another and then expand this so
and then from there hopefully they will find opportunities and you know this this they say luck is when preparation meets opportunity so people can prepare but then as a community as a leader of a community as a founder you can provide the opportunities for those members to then hopefully thrive.
You know, it actually reminds me a lot of if you remember Comic Con was started I think like 60 or 70 years ago. It's a very old concept and The rooms look like this. Yeah, and the only people that were doing it were these hardcore comic collectors, card collectors and they were coming to the space
that was in like a warehouse or like a tiny the room in a convention center not the whole thing and coming together and nerding out about planning ended nerding out about their about the things that they had you know the things they collected and the artists that they followed and the in the characters that they loved and so
This could be as big as San Diego Comic Con one day where it is the experience hub of technology like a CES, you know. And so I think it's going to be interesting the evolution and the integration of entertainment and technology in that way, where like you can.
I guess you like totally re-imagine that that like nerdy fan and how it intersects. I just want to say something. So I had a conversation with, and this is just a testament to how absolutely insane this world is, but like one of the founders of Comic-Con. I can't remember their name, but like
He was the founder of the co founder decades ago and they were doing some sort of Web 3 NFT project and someone was like they were looking for advisors and I had a call with him and he said a story about how When comic commons first starting It was so powerful because it was a place where like the nerds and the geeks and the comic fans
who they were like outcasts and ostracized and at school they were get bullied and their their family didn't understand and their friends didn't understand but they just loved comics and they loved you know whether it's cosplay or the stories or the lore and so when they got together it was like whether even it was a small group or small room it was this powerful energy and I feel that's very similar to crypto and blockchain
and NFTs where especially now, after the bubble is burst in this bear market, a lot of people, if they tell their friends are into NFTs, they get laughed at or they're like, what are you doing? That's crazy. But then they come here and it's like, oh, my people. And so like, this is the place where the magic happens. Yeah. And look at all those comic book nerds now.
because like, mobile, yeah, exactly. Oh my god. When I remember when I saw, I think it was a vanity fair, wrote an article about Guardians of the Galaxy and I said, fuck these people. I was so fucking mad, right? Because I'd been in Marvel fan since I was
like seven six years old. I mean, I didn't play sports because X-Men came on Saturday mornings and I didn't want to miss it. Yeah. So I thought it was really, really, really funny when it hit the mainstream. I knew for it that it was mainstream at that point. I was I was curious how you see
the PDF key evolving over the next few years for those listening that don't know what PFT is a profile pick. It's a yeah, maybe you can actually define it and then give us your thoughts on what it how it will evolve. Does it stick around as a go away? Yeah, so I mean, PFP profile picture. It's like basically
like your avatar on Twitter on whatever social media platform. It's actually funny. I was thinking about this the other day about like the evolution of PFPs where when I was getting into the internet in the late 90s, you go online forums and you have an avatar and it was always very rarely was it your face. You pick something else. And then
Facebook came along and then everyone is using their their real face Facebook and Instagram and it's all like this is me this is my real name my real face and then like Twitter and crypto and everything came along and now we're back to like these anonymous or street anonymous identities and I think What is clear is that the the idea of a PFP of
an avatar, an image or a 3D thing to identify with in the digital world, that's never going anywhere. Whether it's your real face, yourself, could be VR, your actual full body, or something that you choose to be, you could be an A or a cat or an Azuki or whatever.
character you want to be or something else entirely. And it's a way to people to like digitally represent themselves. Just in the similar way, like people will wear t-shirts or have a hairstyle or sneakers and like it's just like a digital way to represent yourself. And so that's not going away in the NFT space.
They've kind of gone crazy like obviously there's just a massive speculative bubble and most people just use PFPs as an avenue to gamble But the concept of owning your identity and taking that with you is really really powerful like you can be able to hire brands around them personal or business or just self and get to know people that's not going anywhere. I just think
I think that it'll look very different in 10 years than what it does now, but it's not going anywhere. I think that's fair. When my friend Tony spoke on the fashion panel yesterday, I referenced Ready Player One because I was like, imagine you could be anyone in the metaverse.
So you would change possibly based on the scenario, based on the theme of an event or where you're going, what kind of universe you're entering, you may change what you're wearing or how you represent. Maybe it's an alien when you're in like another planet, so first real planets and someone posh and
yourself when you're like at a gallop but it's based on earth you know so I think that'd be interesting. I love seeing people come up to you and say hi and seek you out and just want to talk to you in real life you know that that energy. I also love that Sadiq make
I mean, that's like true fandom, right? This is the example we're talking about with Comic-Con. Talk to me about the evolution of Zinn Academy. What do you want people to know about what's next? And what's your vision for those very little community members and holders?
Yes, we had a Zen Academy meet up yesterday here and I was very casual I just picked a place three minutes from the venue in the park and said hey we're gonna meet up there and we had I think 30 40 people came and Sadiq one of our like OG community members is a brand ambassador. He's been there from the beginning is always
He's a wonderful human as well. Obviously in Valition he had a big Zen economy flag made and so he just came and he's waving the flag and as people saw it and they joined and it was really really fun. And to me that's like that's what it's all about. That's community that's bringing people together is a huge part of Zen economy. It's really about
about educational content is what I like to do. And then the people that like that content can talk and connect with each other. And so it's like create content. I can write, I can tweet, I can do whatever. And then if people consume that, that's not a community, that's an audience. But then when
And that audience and when those people interact with each other because they resonate with the content or an idea or a concept or the culture of the community, that's when you build a community. And that's what happened here, like the meetup I was talking to people, but everyone else was in Greek talking to themselves. And now when I walk around and I see like right over there, I see a
a couple of Zen Academy community members talking and they met yesterday and it's just great to see people that met and then they see each other and it's like come together. It's like a microcosm of the microcosm of this whole event where in this whole web three space where people meet and then they see each other at events and make their friendships and networks. So to me that's what it's all about. It's like bringing people together
We're gonna be able to gather. How do you think we can foster more cross-community relationships? Because I feel like people are very... I don't want to use the word "gang mentality" because I'm not like from the streets, so I don't really know how that works. But this kind of mentality where people
stay within their groups and how do we kind of come together and share not only knowledge but yeah I don't know how do we promote cross-cross community engagement experience. Yeah I mean I agree there's some sort of like
antagonism or like competitiveness between certain communities. But I think for the most part, anyone that meets anyone else from this space and NFT, if you have a PFP, you're like, you're still part of the community. And it's really about just like co hosting events with other communities or
It's just larger events where it's not for a specific community. It's like, hey, let's just get together and do things together. And I think that honestly, like for the most part, most people in the space are, I guess there's like different types of people. Like there's certain types that allow going partying and clubbing and maybe certain communities are more focused around
around those people, that demographic, their events are like that. Other communities are more around networking or building and business, building and business and those types of communities will, those people just more organically get together. But I think it's just about trading more events, more events together. Yeah, I think one of the things
things is cross-bite for sharing, like sharing communities basically is doing it without any intention. Like you're going into really authentically provide something, not around like a mince or anything like that. It's like, no, we just like something that I,
I've been offering and I would love to continue to do is offering like character development and world building like workshops. Yeah, I have this whole questionnaire that I've developed to help people figure out their character motivation and their journey throughout their story. So I think there's things like that where you go and it really is about education and inviting people in
to maybe something they thought about but didn't know how to start. And for example, with storytelling, you start with the character. So I think it'd be I think it'd be interesting to see. Yeah, that's like like a Zenokator, where you went around and taught people, especially who are really interested in providing information about the technology.
about the use cases about the what brands are doing and kind of show them how to write blogs and things like that. Yeah, I'm gonna say that sounds like a great idea and I think that you exactly right it's about doing things for other communities without the expectation of trying to mint out a project or hump the floor price. It's just like
to the end. How do you just do it for the good of the community and helping people and good things will happen?
Okay, I have one more question and this one is a bit personal so I think you told me this interview but where did Zeneca come from again? So It's directly from the story flush for Seneca. I love stoicism and I have out of about seven
eight years now. And literally when I was creating my Twitter account in like February, March 2021, I just looked around my desk and there was a book from Seneca on my desk and I was like, "Ah, that's cool. Maybe I'll do something with that." And then I didn't want to just do Seneca and copy. And then in my mind, just I like Buddhism,
Zen, Zen Buddhism. I was like, "Oh, I'll just merge the tree together." That was it. From my desk to Twitter and then it kind of stuck. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think I told you this, but there was a race of aliens in my original story.
called the Zinnikin. They were this like race that basically escaped the Milky Way and went to the Andromeda Galaxy. Yeah. And so when I saw that, I was like, oh, the magic of the universe. Right. I'm trying to think if there's anything else I wanted us to chat with chat about.
If anyone has any questions, please feel free to raise your hand. You're welcome to come up and ask a question. We are live in FC Lisbon. So if you want to know what he's here or what's going on. Yeah, if you have any questions, go ahead and raise your hand.
- It's so great here. - I was gonna say, what's your favorite part about NFC Lisbon so far? - The size of this gonna come meet up. - I mean, it's almost like the same answer in a call-pap, like the people.
I think the venue, like it's, it's a really cool old building in the middle of an amazing park. It's just like it's, it's different. It's like, know your standard convention hall on the outskirts of town with like 10 hotels around you. So you walk outside and you're in the middle of this wonderful park.
and yeah, it's really magical. Yeah, so then you was beautiful. It feels like we're in an old castle, like an old parliament building. The main stage is like inside this gorgeous hall with like really beautiful tile. Oh my god, I'm just so gorgeous.
It's really gorgeous. And you're speaking at 305 305 PM playground stage, 305 at the playground stage. You can catch Zinnika there. Thank you all for tuning in. Thank you Zinnika for joining. It's been such a pleasure to meet you and hang out with you this week. And you're lovely to be on say.
So I'm looking forward to maybe I'll get to do bye before you're there. Definitely Australia because you know, I love you know, I love us. Thank you for joining. Tell everybody where they can find you and anything to look out for. Well, thanks so much for having me. It's been just like a pleasure.
There's been so much fun. Every time I see you Jason. Um, where to find me? Yeah, I mean, just follow ads and account of me is probably the best thing I will send people to because we have some exciting stuff coming up with a PFP in the next couple months. I want to say six, eight weeks. Finally, we're getting
And there it's the odd it's coming together looks so good I'm biased but it looks so good. Yeah, I can't wait for you to see it. Yeah, and thanks everyone for tuning in. Yeah. Amazing. I'm definitely gonna ape in on that one. I'm just kidding. I don't use that. I don't use that terminal. I'm like, nah. Yeah, I'm not the ape on a project. I'm like,#
No, I definitely want to support you in your vision and I'm such an advocate for writers writing and especially writers from Mars last backgrounds and I think. Yeah, it's important that our voices are heard and are out there. So appreciate you coming on and we will see you next Wednesday. Terri will be back and yeah, okay.