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NEUTRON NATION
Recorded: March 26, 2025 Duration: 0:59:10Space Recording
Short Summary
The discussion covers the Mercury upgrade's impact on Neutron, highlighting improvements in performance, cross-chain interoperability, and validator roles. Innovations in blockchain governance and yield opportunities are expected to drive growth and attract more developers to the ecosystem.
Full Transcription
Hey, folks. How's everyone doing?
Doing great. How are you doing?
Doing pretty decently. I had the most insane day yesterday.
I started to work at like, probably like midday or something, and I finished working at about 10 or 11 a.m., which was not recommended, but it worked.
It was fun. I was in the zone.
Little light work, 23-hour work session.
Yeah, well, you know, I've got to do what you've got to do, right?
No, fair.
It's like my third day here.
I feel like I got to step it up to at least a 30-hour shift if I'm going to keep up.
Yeah, we're on Chinese worst schedules, man.
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah, I'm bringing dishonor to you, man.
Hey, Dano.
How are you doing?
Hey, guys.
How are you going on?
Going well, going well.
How about you, sir?
Good, good.
Good.
Will you be doing as the pleasure of hosting and needing the conversation today?
Yes, I can.
So welcome everyone to this week's Neutron Nation.
Super excited because we have a new guest on the space today, who is Clyde.
He's a brand new hire at Neutron, and he's the developer-relations engineer.
And I'm super curious to hear what he's going to be working on, what he's got planned, and how he's going to contribute to the ecosystem.
I think you're going to be seeing more of him soon, so...
Let's hear it. Clyde, you want to introduce yourself?
Yes. Thanks for the warm welcome, everybody. I'm Clyde.
And as Devro-Engineer with Neutron, I'm going to be kind of at the center between bridging
technical capabilities of Neutron, everything we have to offer with the developer community around it.
And it's going to be about
Yeah, mainly making Neutron's specific unique infrastructure more accessible, helping people understand what integrated architecture really is, what the advantages there are.
And that also means making technical tutorials showing real world implementations of how to actually use our tech and all kinds of tech content around that and showing what Neutron really offers in terms of defa that you can't find elsewhere.
And it's also going to be about just reducing friction points for users, devs, for everyone, all the beautiful members of this community.
We got some exciting stuff immediately on the pipeline really related to that point.
I know Spade has on his agenda that he's been getting me up the date on.
And yeah, I'm super pumped to be joining us.
Thanks for the welcome.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I mean, I feel like I have crafted...
an art or at least I would like to say I try and make DFI strategies into words and language that's more accessible to even your introductory defy user.
But the kind of the back end side of how things work on the dev side, it's completely foreign to me.
So I think there's so much that Neutron has to offer from their tech stack and seeing you come on with the skill to be able to translate to me and everyone else is awesome.
No, yeah, there's so many.
I love how.
Go ahead, go ahead, speak.
Just had a quick comment to say, I love how it literally collides like second or third day and we're already grilling him on his face.
Yes, literally what I said in the tweet, like, come grill.
Come grill flyd. Tell him what you want.
No, I'm ready to get baked.
If there's any community members listening in right now,
and you want to come at me a little bit or have some comments,
just let it fly.
Let me hear what's going on.
But, yeah, I mean, we got plenty to talk about Mercury upgrade hitting within two weeks, right?
Indeed, sir.
I'm excited about it.
I was probably going to tweet about it later today, but I was...
I was kind of like talking to a bunch of validators today and such.
And it sort of reminded me of, I think one of the underrated part of Mercury is kind of like how it can like fixes a lot of the issue of proof of stake in the ecosystem so far.
Right. Like, you know, generally speaking, we've seen a bunch of kind of like recurring symptoms of like, hey, one, you know, chains inflate to death really, really, really quickly.
And they'll do so in ways that don't actually add a lot of value.
There's this kind of concept of like a hurdle right, right, where it's like,
oh, if I can earn kind of like the Air Corps risk-free rate, e.g.
Like, you know, high yield, but with low risk on that position,
then why would I even consider doing something in Defi?
Because, you know, it's just like way more worth it to do less effort and get at least as much money or even in some cases more, right?
And so you end up like like shooting your ecosystem in the foot.
So those few things, there's also like kind of like, you know,
you have a bunch like governance throughout the ecosystem is kind of like this,
this thing that is both like a source of pride for cosmos,
but also something that has been like very dysfunctional to a number of like
in a number of ways, right?
Like you have, for example,
validators are not just expected to be great infrastructure providers.
They're also expected to be experts in every protocol that they validate.
But they also have to validate a whole bunch of them if they want to survive.
And so the results you have is that, like,
you have folks making decisions with tremendous impact due to delegations that don't necessarily actually have that much context or that much steps and such, right?
It's not to say anything about the validators, right?
A lot of them are actually putting a lot of efforts into this, but it's kind of like a whole separate job that now you're tacking onto validation and stuff.
And there's a host of other problems that the current model can like,
perpetuates and like Mercury's design right is like hey let's simplify all of that stuff away let's
One, separate the roles of being governors and being infrastructure providers,
so that developers can focus on being infrastructure providers,
do that really well and get paid consistently for that service, right?
So they don't have to lose money during the bar market.
They don't have to, you know, make millions of dollars for basically the same service that they were already providing.
During the bull market, they just, you know, they provide a service.
They reliably make money on it, just like a normal business should operate.
And at the same time,
having this kind of like way more manageable inflation
that one doesn't end up kind of like,
you know, because we don't adjust for
targeting a high-staking ratio,
we don't need high-stakes because the Dow is already securing the network.
We can talk about that later.
We can basically instead target an inflation rate,
which means that we can stimulate the economy by slowly rewarding people who
liquid stake and do things in the ecosystem with this extra yield,
which opens like new positions and opportunities without actually kind of like completely diluting everyone
and like, you know, hammering the market with like a whole bunch of new supply for doing nothing.
So, yeah, some of the things that were in my mind.
It's starting to sound a little central bankish
talking about stimulating the economy with inflation spade.
I don't know.
Be careful with that.
Yeah, I mean, like, look, I actually think this is like, you know,
In this case, the central bank is like the Dow, right?
Which is also like the community of people who own the tokens, right?
So it's kind of like, you know, if everybody who had dollars could set the monetary policy of dollars, like, okay, that's kind of like a very different model, right?
But this is kind of like what's what we're talking about here.
And yeah, like arguably,
economic theories that apply to real world economies and stuff,
like can apply to blockchain networks.
And so, you know, just trying to not do exactly the opposite,
like because basically most blockchains today are trying to basically have the monetary policy of like Venezuela, right?
I'm not sure that that's necessarily like a great idea, you know.
And so what we see in practice is that like moderate, sustained, predictable inflation is actually great for the economy because what it does is that like you know that there will be more money in the economy first.
Right. So you don't, you're not incentivized to just hold and do nothing ever with it. Right.
which is one of the problems with deflation.
And two, it kind of like creates like yield opportunities that people can trade around and stuff.
And this creates like activity, it creates like TVL.
And this is exactly what we want for the network to grow, right?
So like, okay, maybe it sounds like central bankish, but I feel like if it grows the ecosystem, it's one.
It makes total sense. Yeah, no, it's that's a plot.
What I'm really interested in with a mercury upgrade is the performance,
improvements and benefits and what that's also going to bring just between
throughput and faster block times.
I'm curious what new use cases, what new infront apps you think that could bring for
new Tron Spade, just the raw performance that's coming our way.
Yeah, I mean, I think what we've seen in the industry so far is that like
there is some kind of like, there's induced demand is a real phenomenon, right?
Like for example, on Solana, like, you know, blockchain used to be slow and expensive.
Solana comes around, now it's like super cheap and super fast, boom, meme coins explode, right?
This was a use case that previously did not make sense because it was just too expensive to trade like, you know, coins for the sake of it.
And so, you know, that didn't really take off before, but then that
just sheer performance and raw supply of block space
suddenly enables that kind of use kits, right?
Same thing for roll-ups, right?
You look at, like, Ethereum DA pretty limited, right?
So, like, you have roll-ups and such,
but they're kind of, like, trying to really optimize
how much DA that they're consuming.
They're trying to, like, you know, be conservative
with, like, the performance that they're offering
and such as a result of these limitations.
So Lestia comes around, boom, now you have, like,
ample block space that you can try, you won't even be able to saturate it, right?
And so you start seeing, like, folks who offer, like, really insane performance threshold on trading and stuff,
and, like, they can afford to use all of that lock space because now it's, like, so cheap and such, right?
So basically, just generally speaking, breaking through technical barriers on performance
can lead to new use cases that weren't viable previously, becoming, like, you know,
very mainstream and basically exploding, right?
So I don't know exactly what that will be,
but I expect that that pattern will likely occur.
And it also just like makes every existing use case way better, right?
Like if you're trading today on Neutron, two seconds isn't bad, right?
Sure.
But it's definitely not as good as like not even being able to see that,
you know, the network had to do something in the background.
It's just like I clicked on the button and then it happened, you know.
That's a much better trading experience.
Part of it is bringing like the UI, it needs to feel like a Web2 application.
When you're on a blockchain pressing buttons doing defy strategies or trading, you want your experience.
You just feel like you're on a regular Web2 website where you click and things happen immediately.
Things are resolved immediately.
No, yeah.
I think and also maybe more on your wheelhouse, I know, is just the...
Just the raw increase in capital efficiency.
You could probably see some more sophisticated risk models coming into play with lesser block times now.
I'm excited to see what new crazy delta neutral D5 strategies you can cook up with with one second block times.
And then not to mention new composable yield strategies that you will be able to get in the picture.
All this yield orchestration could have.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think like another thing I want to talk about with the Mercury upgrade,
something that I know Diploid Don was excited about was the total gas amount.
And I feel like maybe we could break that down a little bit because in the announcement,
it was saying that there are higher, higher guess amounts now.
Like maybe if someone was reading that and they're like, a higher guess,
like I don't want to pay more for transaction.
But what does that actually mean to the end user that there's higher gas allocations?
Great news, folks. We just 11x the price of doing shit. No, just kidding. Yeah, no, you're right. Actually, that probably deserves an explanation. All right. So first, like, what is gas? Why do blockchain have gas? And Clyde, feel free to, like, correct me here if I'm not perfectly correct. But the TLD is like, okay, you have a blockchain, right? A blockchain is multiple computers coming to agreement on the state of reality, right? The things that happened, right? And so...
you don't know what kind of hardware each of the nodes are running, right?
And if you want the network to be decentralized,
you kind of want to ensure that even the smaller, less beefing machines are able to keep track
of what's going on in the chain, right?
That they're able to synchronize, that they're able to sort of like stay in sync with the rest of the network
so that they can do their, you know, their verifications and whatever else they're doing.
And so gas is a limit.
It's a self-imposed constraints on the amounts of compute and resources that can be used by the network in its general operations that ensures that smaller less beefing nodes are able to follow, basically.
before it was really, really conservative, basically. Now we're increasing that limit dramatically,
which allows more complex use cases, allows more expressiveness, allows more stuff to happen per block,
such that basically like defy gets way more powerful. The trade-off of this is like the, like if you
were running neutral on a raspberry pie before, like that might not work super well right now. But
My point on this would be that while Ethereum itself is trying to be the world computer,
focus on home stakers, have everybody run their client and nodes and stuff,
this is not something that like tenement blockchains are capable of doing realistically anyway.
And so it doesn't really make sense to sort of limit the performance and the capabilities of the blockchain for an objective that it won't meet anyway.
Right. And so by removing this barrier, we're just getting like freebies on like the ability of the change to really service this more advanced use cases, which really are kind of like what what Neutron and Mars uniquely offered, right?
Like these ability to have really deeply integrated, really capital efficient kind of like use cases if that makes sense.
Did I get that right roughly kind?
Yeah.
I think if I were trying to put it in an analogy, I might think of something more like comparing it to highway where the old gas limit of 30 million is something like a two lane highway where traffic can only flow at a certain capacity when things getting congested things slowed down.
But now upgrading to the new gas limit is more like a 22 lane super highway, not in the grossly inefficient sense.
But now we can accommodate larger, more complex vehicles.
And okay, so maybe it's a little bit harder now for the.
for the two-seeded really small car to operate in the middle of that 22-lane superhighway,
but we're going to be able to accommodate more flow.
And devs are going to be able to write more complex smart contracts with more sophisticated calculations
in a single transactions.
Yeah, Mars is going to be able to support more complex risk calculations and collateral
evaluations for each block and...
protocols are going to be able to bundle operations together in one transaction.
So it's going to be really making those interchain transactions more effective, I'd say.
Something like this might be the knowledge I'd take to take the Devrel approach here.
Yeah, I'm in Saarrafans.
I like the analogy. It breaks down a little bit when talking about the nodes, like, what are those like the pillars of the highway or something?
But yeah, I agree. I think that's a good analogy.
Another quick thing that can be on the block time point, I guess three points, right?
First point is another thing that block that higher performance improves is crushing interoperability.
What's amazing about tendermint blockchains,
is that they finalize in one slot, right?
We make a block as soon as the block is accepted, boom, it's finalized, right?
Single slot finality, instant finality.
That's great because it allows us to do cross-chain transactions that are like,
okay, get included in one block on one side, cool, that's finalized.
We can go to the other blockchain, get included, boom, that's finalized.
Just have to return and confirm things on the first blockchain.
Boom, the entire flow is completed, right?
So that means that the total time for a cross-in interaction between two chains is equal to basically three blocks in the happy scenario where the reliers are being very, very efficient, right?
Now, while most of the interchain was like seven-second blocks, your IBC transaction takes like, oh, 30 seconds or something.
Really good compared to, you know, like the 20, 30 minutes of like Ethereum.
But now imagine like, you know, Neutron interacting with another chain that is like,
you know, sub-second finality, right? Like let's say, like, I don't know, like say, right?
Like Neutron, boom, 100 milliseconds, say, boom, 400 milliseconds,
return to Neutron 100 milliseconds. But in one second, you've done your crushing transaction, right?
Like, you've moved funds around, you've triggered some kind of activity, like,
whatever it is that you're doing. It's like that too almost gets to the point where it's like,
you don't feel yourself waiting for it to happen. It's just like, boom, that's done. So you get the
experience of like one single chain, but actually across like multiple chains now, which is pretty
sick in my opinion. Yeah, that's cool. That'll make drop, the interface would drop much
even better too, because I'm assuming that'll make up their interchain, their interchain accounts
even faster. So when you're,
Because drop is an application based on neutrons, but it, through interchane accounts,
you can mint and unstake their liquid stake tokens from neutron,
and it performs those actions on those other chains.
Like currently, for example, on the Celestria Hub and the Cosmos Hub,
and soon from Inisha.
And so the faster block times will just make that experience even better for the user.
I had another question regarding the validators.
We were just talking about it a second ago.
Do you think like the current setup or the setup that will happen with their recur upgrade
regarding validators and how they're kind of different from the traditional proof of state
governance system is more appealing or less appealing to the validators that you've been talking
Because in one hand, they probably have less upside potential in a bull market, but then
on the, for them, the benefit is that they have like a secure bottom line that they know they're going to be making and staying on their business.
Clyde, I'd love to get your thoughts on this.
Since like, you know, you have experience.
Yeah.
I didn't actually mention to the spaces here that my background has been mostly on the validator side in Cosmos up until now.
I also did some protocol work at EVMOS.
You know, I can say, I know I see a couple of Voditors in here.
I see Bro and Bro in here.
I see Voted us.
And it's.
It's and I think I can speak for us in that a lot of validated work is sort of for the love for the community because it's it's kind of rare to get in a position where a network is going to be solidly profitable for you. So.
for this new situation for neutron validators to actually have that bottom line secured and just
to just to have a network that you know it definitely pays the bills and you get to keep something from
it i think that's i think it's a huge win from an infrastructure perspective uh from a stability
perspective for the network and uh yeah it's it's tough out there as a cosmos validator these days and
you got to find
You know, there's actually so, so many dedicated teams and talented teams, not just from an infrastructure perspective, but teams with really deep knowledge on the protocols and on development that have so much to offer, but there's just sometimes not.
enough opportunity out there to have a large variety of profitable networks.
So I think it's a great move for Neutron to just focus on having a solid set that has their
bottom line secured that allows the validator set to really just focus on their core duties.
Yeah, that's cool.
Yeah.
Do you think it builds kind of like, oh, go for it.
Sorry.
No, no, I was just going to say, yeah, from a business standpoint, I think it makes a lot of sense for them.
but yeah i'm not a validator so i was curious what your opinion was spayed to go for it yeah i was
going to say like i do think that like yeah like basically what it removes from like today
my understanding of how a valider business operates is there's kind of like three arms to the business right
there's
the whole DevOps side of things,
which is running, setting up,
maintaining the infrastructure to run the network properly,
which is the core thing that the network itself cares about, right?
And then there's two other roles that can,
or like depending on the model,
get tacked onto this, that may create like upside
or costs for the validers, right?
Like the other two parts are, you know,
governance experts and community participation and BD in marketing, right?
And those two things are kind of like very related in the sense that
on most networks, you have this competition to attract more stake because this is what determines
whether or not you get paid basically and like how much, right? Like you have a pie of inflation
and then based on your voting power, you will get a larger or smaller share. And like this creates
a situation where like you have a fairly, you have a bunch of like weird incentives in the sense that like
as a validator, like your goal is to maximize your voting power on networks you care about, right?
And this makes total sense, right? But it also leads to a situation whereby, one,
your optimal outcome is to do something that's bad for the network and start getting into the 10% plus voting power of the network itself.
And we see this on a number of blockchains, right?
And especially centralize the exchange validators tend to, because they have this vertically integrated distribution channel,
they have a massive advantage in that stake acquisition, right?
And so they end up in situations like, for example, Coinbase right now is like something like 11 or 12% of the Cosmos Hub's voting power, right?
And it's like at this point,
you're creating a really serious issue
for the networks like resilience and liveness,
which is, you know, it's a weird situation to find yourself in
because on the one hand,
you want to do everything that you can
to make your business successful,
but you also probably don't want to hurt
the networks you're participating in, right?
And so by removing this entire competition from the landscape, right,
you sort of like resolve these things where it's like,
it simplifies the relationship towards,
hey, the network needs infrastructure.
If you provide it and you do a good job at it,
you know, you get paid.
That's it, you know.
You don't have to compete for stake and whatever.
And it allows you as a validator to even start like acting altruistically, right?
So for example, I was talking to some of the largest holders of NTRN and they were like,
hey, how should we approach like,
you know, delegating and stuff.
Like generally speaking,
we run our own validator,
so we would delegate everything
to our own validator.
And I was like, yeah,
there's no, like, you know,
when you delegate,
you'll get your staking rewards anyway.
And so you're actually the best move you can do,
and there's also no slashing, right?
So you don't have to,
It's like you don't have to be afraid of losing your principle by delegating to a validator that can misbehave.
We don't need slashing because we have validerset curation and because we have tombstoning and jailing these kind of like other punishments that directly affect the validators and not their stakers.
But so the TLD is that like large holders that would normally run a validator and stake everything to their validator or use all of their distribution to drive distribution to their own validator can now be empowered to be like, oh, actually,
I'll pick the 10 best validators or the ones that I have the best relationships with and whatever,
and I'll delegate across all of these guys instead.
And so what you end up with is a set that is hopefully way more distributed in the sense that every validator has roughly the same amount of stake.
And what this does is actually really important.
What this does is if you have a set of 200 validators, but 70% of the voting power is in 10,
your actual set is kind of 10 validators.
If you have 20 validators,
but the set is evenly distributed among them,
they all matter just as much, right?
And so that means that you can actually get better decentralization,
resilience, censorship resistance, collusion resistance,
like way better security properties out of a smaller set
by having a more flat distribution of stake,
than by having a massive set whereby,
there are a few validators that get the entire pie.
And then the last 100 plus validators are like fighting
for tiny amounts of stake here and there.
And it's kind of like the rat race
where everybody's like competing each other towards like lower
commissions and such and making the whole set
like less economically sustainable.
If that makes sense.
And so yeah, I think it's going to be like just a much
chiller blockchain to validate it.
If that makes sense while also enabling the network
to really function with a high degree of performance
and reliability.
Yep, fully agree, Spade.
I like that you mentioned kind of the game theoretical angle of it allowing validers to act more altruistically when you take out that just that dog-eat-dog kind of competing for voting power dynamic.
And with Valiator experience, I can say that those BD efforts of just trying to get a little bit more foundation delegation or trying to get one more whale or just like grinding to get more VP is just.
so draining not only on your, you know, as it pertains to other validators, but just in terms of internal resources and mental energy.
And I think just sorting that out with what Mercury upgrade is going to bring is I think all that attention and effort is going to be able to be more directed toward, okay, now maybe we have some resources to actually contribute to Neutron as.
you know and lift the bottom line for everyone how can we help drive more activity in this ecosystem
that's that's what it's it incentivizes now right not just competing for voting power but
wanting to raise the bottom line in the network so i think it's it's really exciting in that sense
yeah i agree and it also creates like
you know, flexibility for valid, because like, there are a bunch of really talented validators
that have the kind of like, either governance or like community building kind of like experiences.
It creates, it creates an ability for them to opt in to doing these things rather than be
forced into doing them basically to compete for stake, which means that like, you know, for example,
Neutron might have, um,
governance delegations in the future.
That means that, like,
validators who do want to participate in governance will be able to, like, you know, represent,
like have an impact by having, by receiving governance, like voting power delegations,
basically that will allow them to, like, materially impact effects and stuff, but they don't have to, you know.
So, so.
Yeah, I think, you know, a few sense on like the,
some of the thoughts that went into creating that model.
We actually have a bunch of validers in the, in the space.
So if you guys want to, you know, hop on and like share your thoughts on,
you know, whether you think that what we're saying makes sense,
or if we're, if it's completely garbage and we got it wrong,
always happy to hear some feedback as well.
So feel free to request.
John, like, sorry, I know, I think we're probably going to,
keep it short, I'll have to drop for another call in about five minutes, if that makes sense.
Okay. Could you make me co-host and then you can leave if you need to?
Oh, no, sorry, sorry, sorry. No, my bad. My bad, it's in 30 minutes.
Okay. My calendar invites. It was outdated. Sorry. No worries. Yeah. So, I mean,
it's been good to talk about like why the new system makes sense for validators of the Neutron
network post-mercure upgrade. All
I want to talk about why a user that comes to neutron might be affected or care about this kind of new model for government or for validation on neutron.
Yeah, that's a really good question.
So I think the primary thing is, well, I think there are two primary things.
Well, three actually.
The first one is on other networks,
centralized exchange validators are able to set up
these very vertically integrated staking stack,
which means that they have their exchange,
they have the balances of their users on that exchange,
and they can offer
products around staking these assets, right?
They're also able to run validators so that the delegations from the users go straight to their delegators,
so they can't like profit at every stage, right?
They're taking the commissions, they're taking whatever fees,
and they're keeping their users within the boundaries of their exchange, right?
This is great business for them, but it's not great from the perspective of both the network's decentralization
and the network's ability to onboard users on-chain, right?
The fact that Neutral's validator set is going to be much smaller and that it is going to be opinionated and curated by the Dow and Drop Protocol means that these exchanges are very unlikely to actually get into the set.
And so the result of this is that either option one, which I think is very unlikely, they'll start offering staking products that are delegating to other validators.
I think that's very unlikely, but it's possible.
Or number two, there will be an incentive that's a long-lasting incentive
for users who are holding the tokens on centralized exchanges
to basically onboard to the network so that they can access
the staking yields in the first place, right?
So one, this creates an incentive for people to onboard on-chain
versus just stay on centralized exchanges,
which could lead to more user adoption and such.
Secondly, prior to the Mercury upgrade,
the main reason why you would be holding
and Turen tokens were because you wanted to participate in governance
and or because you were making a bet on the network generally,
on the asset and such.
Now,
And, you know, it was very difficult for you to find like really great use cases for the token on chain.
Like there were a few LP pools that were incentivized and stuff.
So potentially you could do this, but then there's impermanent loss and such.
You might not be looking for providing like volatile liquidity.
And, you know, the more risk, like the lower risk and like positions like, say, lending and herein were fairly unprofitable because there were little
there were a few things to drive demand for borrowing neutral in the first place.
With the mercury upgrade, you know, like thanks to the Dow playing the central banking role,
it creates kind of like this baseline degree of yield that can be packaged into an LST, a liquid staking token,
like D and Turen, that basically creates an incentive
for people to go use that derivative as collateral in order to borrow the underlying asset,
the native asset in T TN, to loop it, right?
And the reason why that incentive exists is because if you can borrow NTR for cheaper than the staking rewards you're getting on D in TN,
then you can get the difference as pure profit and you can repeat that loop it up, right?
The consequence of this is that if the market is rational, if the market is somewhat efficient,
the lending rate should increase because of the demand to close to the staking rewards rate, right?
Which means that you'll be able to passively, like it basically creates these kind of like yield opportunities in other venues
just because of like the arbitrages and the positions that you can take, right?
It also enables a bunch of new liquidity positions,
like correlated liquidity positions that can be really appealing to people
because they have very low and permanent loss and risks in general,
but they can get decent volume and fees and potential incentives and such.
And so these things combine can create a bunch of new use cases, like, oh, I can now use
my intiren as a much more appealing form of collateral.
I can earn by lending.
I can earn by providing correlated liquidity.
I can combine these things into, like, more complex positions and strategies.
It basically incentivizes, like, the neutron token playing a much more interesting role into
the economy of the network, which I think is really interesting because neutron kind of like
like lived on hard mode until now because its own native asset wasn't like, wasn't like
maximally designed to contribute to the growth of the ecosystem. And if you look at other,
at other networks, right, a major chunk of the TBL of these networks is exactly what I'm
describing here, right? If you look at, say, for example, I don't know what the latest numbers are,
50 to 60% of their TVL is basically people lending, um,
stakes say tokens borrowing either USDC to buy more say or boring just native say and like
looping that up. And that's like a vast majority of their TVL. And I'm not like it's not just like
say it's like even Ethereum is like that, right? And the reason for that is it's just a trade that makes
a ton of sense for people to take.
and it benefits the ecosystem as a whole, right?
And so through this, I think we're going to start seeing some pretty decent, like, traction and momentum starting to build on the network leading up into, like, the other kind of like innovations and, like, products launching in the coming months.
Yeah, like that you just mentioned to specific strategies that are going to be unlocked with the NTRN and the Mercury upgrade.
Because now the NTRN will be a yield-bearing token, those strategies become either much more profitable or much more hedged.
So for one example, is the Mars high...
Wow, high liquid staking.
And so that would be you deposit the NTRN, you're earning a 3% yield on that token.
And then with the collateral power of that asset, you're borrowing up to seven times as much as your initial collateral in just native NTRN.
And because of what you said with the foundation putting a bunch of NTRN as supply, that will be really cheap to borrow.
So you're borrowing a bunch of NTRN for cheap.
Your collateral and your borrow are highly correlated assets.
And then you're swapping your borrowed NTR into the NTRN, which is all yield bearing.
And you're earning the delta on the borrow and the earned side of the staked asset.
And so you're still long on NTRN if you want to be along, and you're just getting a boosted stake game.
And then the other one that you touched on is leveraging, leverage longing against USD your NTRN.
And so you can do that now. You can go to Mars or other lending protocols.
You can deposit your NTRN. You borrow USTC and you swap that for NTRN.
That's just leveraging along your bag.
Except how using Drop and Mars and these integrated applications we have made that much more capital efficient is because now you can use not just NTRN as collateral, but now the NTRN, so you're earning 3% on your collateral.
And then when you borrow USC, you can swap that for D NTRN instead of just regular NTRN.
And so you're earning 3% on your like additionally added collateral that you're making from the swap.
And so, yes, that trade is like a speculator bet on the token, but it's normally you would have to pay a bunch for borrowing the USDC, and now you have to pay less because of the staking rewards that you're compounding.
And so, yeah, those two strategies are going to be like an unlock with this mercury upgrade and should attract a bunch of TBL because they're just more efficient strategies of what we already have.
Sounds to me, look, a tutorial video has got to get made, man.
That's way too galaxy brain D5 strategy down now.
But we can make it.
We can bring that down.
I'll make some quick Eli 5D5 video tutorials for those strats.
Sounds great.
Let's do it.
Yeah.
What's really interesting to me as well, and I'd love to have you guys' thoughts on this.
But recently, it's been a couple of weeks, I think now, but the lending APR on intern used to
be really, really low, like really fucking low. But recently,
We've seen it up to 3.4% right now on this thing.
This is going to come down because the Dow is going to provide more lending capacity.
But I wonder, do you have any thesis on what is creating this demand for borrowing
in Tiran pre-mercury upgrade?
I know, like I'm not sure if it's specific to the pre-mercury upgrade,
but I know that rate was changing once Mars released a
the neutron NTRN, USTC, LP as collateral on Mars,
that kind of changed the game for how liquidity is added on AstroPort.
Because traditionally you would have to have all the NTRN
and have all the USDC that you pair it with, and that's what you're depositing.
But when Mars added that LP as collateral,
you can now say you only want to be exposed to USDC and you want to borrow the NTRM
you deposit half of the LP in the USC,
you borrow the NTRN, and then you pair it together,
and in Mars, you can deposit that LP.
And so if, like, it's a much more stabilized way,
and you have LPN, and even if you only want exposure to one side,
you still technically have exposure to the borrowed token,
but since your borrowed token is also in your LP,
it's like a very actually balanced position,
and you're just earning twice as much yield on the LP.
So I feel like when there was caps in that LP, we saw people moving in and out of either the, like, leverage LP and the vanilla LP.
I'm not sure if that's happening now or not.
This makes a lot of this one, actually.
Yeah, yeah, I'm just taking the...
the forms and you're right actually like most of the capacity of what seems to be borrowed right now on Mars
matches with the TVL of the foreign position which are these kind of like LP positions that you can take from Mars protocol itself
so that seems to to validate your thesis actually that's that's really fucking fascinating I had not realized that this had this effect actually hmm
I wonder how that plays with like supervolts.
Imagine super volts on like on Mars, right?
Like the ability to like basically provide hedge liquidity onto the order book
and benefit from sort of like the superior kind of like volume
and capital efficiency of the pools while also like doing so in a hedged way
so that you're kind of like delta neutral just earning the yields.
Could you read that?
Yeah.
Yeah, imagine, so like right now the farms you have on Mars are PCL pools on Astroport, right?
Imagine if like the supervolts get integrated into that and you're able to start like borrowing the volatile asset to farm,
to farm the well, basically to provide liquidity onto the order book.
That feels like a great way to like basically scale
liquidity while also enabling people to like farm in a fairly delta-inual way while earning the rewards and like the trading fees basically.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think anything that's integrated into Mars, like how those LPs are collateral,
it kind of changes how you look at them and how liquidity is scaled.
But as soon as supervolts are introduced into the equation, it'll be really interesting to look at, like, the native swap fees on those super vaults and how those APRs stack up against the borrow rates of the volatile assets and also USDC.
So yeah, you could do what you were saying, where you borrow one of them, deposit and pair on a different app.
Yeah, and I'm going to be interesting.
Yeah, I've got to start trying some of these new Defy strategies from you, I've just been reading the threads.
I've got this getting to get them actually a bot here.
I'm really, yeah, I'm super curious here if anybody listening in from the community wanted to hop on and ask any questions.
I see a really nice blend of people in here.
I know it's near...
It's near impossible to get the community speakers up unless we start really pissing someone off.
But it would be awesome if anyone wanted to hop in.
I wish you could just force people.
I don't know, man. I don't know. That doesn't sound too nice.
Deployed on you here.
He's busy baking bread.
Making bread?
Yep.
Oh, okay. I was going to harass him to come on stage and tell us about clusters,
but I guess we'll have to wait until we hear some of that alpha.
Clyde, have you tried out Bull Bear?
Have you played around with Bull Bear?
Oh, yeah, that was a question to me. Yeah, no. That's when we first were finalizing our
discussion. I hopped on. That was the latest and greatest say. That's what deployed on built, right?
Yeah, that's right.
One of the many.
Among other things, I guess.
What did I see?
I saw recently, I think he posted that just bulls got wrecked, right?
Or no, bears got wrecked the last couple of days.
I think it's a fun kind of measure of sentiment especially.
Yep, that kind of sounds fun around.
Yeah.
No, I love to see.
I think that's also what's fun about apps like these is that it's just you get some new
metrics on community sentiment in a way that you can't really get from
fear and greed meters or something, you know.
It's fun to see who's really in the trenches and how the bears and bulls are actually faring out there.
I think that's really a nice aspect of that.
Yeah, so thanks for building that deployed on.
I see a little heart reaction. Shout out you.
Past that, I'm really curious what, you know,
what Mercury and what the next pivot in neutrons and neutrons life here is going to bring for apps like these or
What we can accelerate and bring on bring to life with
You know with these web two level performance marks well, it's going to bring a something called something something something clusters
like first and foremost
Which is
Yeah, which is going to be pretty exciting.
I think that's making a lot of progress.
I'll let the team have, like, for once I will not leak.
I was about to say for once, it's mad.
People came here for the leaks, and you're letting them down.
Well, people change. People change.
I've seen the errors of my way, and I am trying to be on the path to righteousness, no longer a leaky bucket.
I mean, I kind of like dropped it already by just mentioning clusters in the first place.
But it's going to be cool.
I'm excited about it.
Yeah, I mean, Spade, maybe one other point before we close this out as an aspect of my, as my grilling.
I want to understand from both of you, maybe also from a community perspective, what we need in terms of
Dev experience resources how you know why did you guys hire me what's what's what's what you thinking spade and I maybe I'm kind of
giving you an LA UP here but I'm curious to hear what you what you'd have to say in terms of how we're gonna level up the the
the Dev experience in in the Neutron world and what you know what the Deverell role in here has to play in that.
So before Spade goes, I'll give you a different answer.
There's one reason we hired you, Clyde, and that is because we need you to build a very specific application.
And it's where you take a newt, and it turns into a tomogachi.
And you can feed it every day.
We've all been waiting for this for the entire time, newts have been a thing.
That's the whole point of newts, right?
Yeah.
That's right.
So once you get on that, let us know.
Our deal.
Make the Tamaguchi's great again.
I actually really want to see that app lie at one day.
Like, I was so hyped about it.
For folks who might be newer through the community,
so there's this...
It's not a meme coin.
It's not a meme coin.
It's ultra-slemoner money, basically.
And it's minted on neutral, right?
Industry first.
It's controlled by this Dow called the new Dow,
which is the leading cryptoXAI project in the space, right?
So very serious.
Now, last year, somebody made a proposal to create the future of,
collectible games because you see there is a fundamental flaw in every game that has been made so far, which is, you know, like Axi and such, right?
So you have these these games, right? You can, let's say, breed your creatures and like have them do a bunch of things and whatever, right?
The problem is that they never die. And so...
you end up with an infinite supply of them,
which dilutes the value of every single one of them, right?
Whereas what you want to create actually is you want to create something where that,
that creature becomes a prized possession, a prized, you know, like part of your life, basically, right?
And so you need them to die.
Right? But only if you're careless or you're not doing the things like properly.
Right. And so a congregation of some of the most elite members of the new Dow came together and designed this master plan for the Tamaguchi game, which would be this revolutionary Tamaguchi game, basically.
And a bunch of like the best community members kind of like started like, like, like,
coming together and actually building it.
And I think it went as far as having the contracts finalized or pretty much so
and having some kind of a UI.
But then the tides changed and the new debt was called for another mission.
And so it actually was never launched.
But yeah, I'm bullish on seeing it live actually.
I like that's one of my dreams.
So basically I got to finish that up before we improve any deaf experiences.
That's totally fair.
I think this is...
By order of the new...
Yeah, by order of the new initiation ritual.
That's right.
It's not a cult, by the way, if you were wondering.
Many things, but not a cult.
Yeah, it makes sense.
Maybe we can do with...
Yeah, now...
You can do like an Eliza OS, new integration,
and then they can, you know, do swaps and trades
and have personalities and stuff with Eliza.
That's probably how I'd do it.
But...
It's been now, no.
Oh, Timoghese was like a personal reading and stuff.
Holy shit.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, this is just two conning romance.
Right.
And then they can, you know.
But what happens if you're, what happens if you're nude as a Karen?
Yeah.
You know, Karen deserve love to you, right?
You got a, I guess, yeah.
Fair.
Fair point.
There's any Karen's in here.
We love you.
There you go.
It's a part of my derogatory language.
Yeah, to answer your question more seriously, right?
Like, why a Deverell on contributing to Neutron?
I think my read of the situation is the following, right?
Having worked on this for the better part of like two years and some,
what's very clear to me is that if you're an ambitious developer,
there's an array of things that you're taking into account
when choosing where to build whatever your vision is, right?
You're definitely taking into account like,
developer experience, you're taking into account like technical unlocks, like, are there things
like that I need to build that are only possible in a specific environment? You're taking into
account like, you know, do I have relationships or advantages in a specific ecosystem because I
know some of the teams that are building apps or like, you know, contributing to the network itself
or that kind of stuff. And most importantly, you're taking into account like market size, right?
And so for the longest of times, we saw like,
did not prioritize improving developer experience, developer advocacy, and such too much.
We tried to do our best to basically make sure that it was covered,
but we didn't prioritize it much because we knew that the priority was growing the ecosystem.
And now this year with Mercury, with DNTRN and Supervolts and Voldemort,
something, something BTC and such coming on board,
we have a high degree of confidence that the ecosystem is going to grow fairly rapidly.
And so this means that like in the coming months,
if we as an ecosystem are successful at doing this,
we will start getting basically like a lot more organic inbound of devs being like,
hey, I have an idea for something I'd like to build in this ecosystem on this asset or such, right?
And so these guys might not have as much context as the folks who are currently building on Neuchon,
who generally speaking already knew a whole bunch about Cosmwasum,
they already knew about like some of the technologies that we use and such.
And so they didn't need as much handholding to onboard.
But as we sort of pivot into this next phase of
phase of growth, that is going to become way more needed and required.
And so I think there's kind of like two primary things that will be super important
this year, which is like one, being able to clearly articulate what makes Neutron
different in terms of the features that it offers to developers. Because this is something that I think is
extremely underrated, actually.
When we, you know, like most people, most of the devs that we talk to, right, they hear a neutron.
They look at DefyLama perhaps and such.
And they're like, okay, this looks cool, but like, you know, I don't, it doesn't strike me immediately.
And then we tell them about the in protocol oracle and the Cron module.
And they go like, holy shit, the things I could build with this.
And so like making sure that we become as an ecosystem way better at expressing this,
these unique value proposition, communicating about that, making sure that like anybody who would
benefit from them basically knows about them and is able to leverage them is really important.
And the second thing is like for all of those who decide to make the jump and like join the ecosystem,
making sure that they're,
welcomed that they have all of the tools and resources and proper documentation and such that would make that journey like easier is also going to be a major help and like making sure that the ecosystem feels welcome and such and that everybody has the the best chances of getting integrated as possible well putts i'm really excited to play that role good
big tasks, sir. What's your objective? Do you want to make your bet?
My bet. Should we should we bet some, should we put some bull bear positions on?
Some mute?
Or what, yeah. Should we bet some newts on it?
Sure. I'm done.
No, I'm super dumb.
We could figure out what the OKR is.
I also, I think people think people here, built an Oracle,
people hear native Crom module at first.
They're like, huh, what?
But then once you really get into it,
I think it gets the right builders super inspired.
And that's really, I think, the main goal, I think,
is to get some inspiration.
in and around Web 3 as a whole, right?
I mean, we've been historically super cosmos aligned,
but I know we have potential in the different corners of this realm,
and I really want to get out there.
That's the idea for Neutron for sure.
Yeah, exactly.
It's like, you know, you look at, like,
what makes cosmos interesting is the flexibility that gives you as a builder, right?
But, like,
that benefits mostly to folks who aren't in cosmos right now.
And so being able to bring that value proposition,
that flexibility, that power to those folks
is actually the most valuable thing that we could be doing.
So it's time to get folks to build the impossible.
Sorry, go for it.
No, yeah.
I think I just wanted to ask one last bit
if there was anyone else in here that wanted to pose any questions,
because we got like two minutes left, right?
as a last little life vest if anyone out there has got anything they want to ask me personally
i love to yeah that's a devrell's job you know we're king apprish if anyone in here is wants to get me going
What's the best way of reaching out to you if I'm a builder that's interested in like getting
some support for getting started on neutron? Right now, best way to reach out to me so you can tweet at me
you got my you got my ad right here that's at Clyde Dove with two Vs or you can hit me on Telegram
which is the same handle except one last V because the Clyde Dove with one V on Twitter was taken so you know
you got to adapt to overcome
Yeah, so Twitter, Telegram are my best avenues.
And what is going to become very clear from ICOMS going forward is that Neutron has got
a number of resources and avenues forward for potential builders in debts to get integrated
with the integrated finance with integrated architecture and benefit from our network effects.
And yeah, I really hope to be a great point of contact.
I hope there's maybe even one little interested builder
in this space right now that I'd be curious about it.
So reach out to me, please, on Twitter or on Telegram.
Feel free to shoot me a follow.
I'll hit you back for any listeners in here for sure.
And thanks.
Sounds good.
Thanks, Donald, for having me.
And thanks, Bade, for carrying the space
and for sharing so many thoughts strategically here.
Absolutely.
It's always a pleasure.
And on these great notes, we're going to close the space.
Thanks for everybody who joined tonight.
If you have any questions or follow up comments,
hit us up on like Telegram, on Twitter and such.
We're going to continue having a bunch of those.
So looking forward to chatting again soon.
Take care, folks.
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