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NEW DEFI STRATEGIES UNLOCKED: NEUTRON NATION
Recorded: May 29, 2025 Duration: 1:12:33Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, the launch of innovative DeFi applications Super and Delta Mars was announced, aimed at simplifying complex strategies for users. Delta Mars is set to provide attractive yield opportunities while Bull Bear celebrates a remarkable $10 million in trading volume, reflecting significant growth in the ecosystem.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you Hey guys, hope everyone is doing tonight.
Welcome, welcome.
Already seeing some chads pile into the audience.
I'm just going to give me a minute here.
We'll let some more people come in and I can share the links around.
One second. Thank you. All right, all right. Welcome to this Thursday night. How's everyone doing?
Hey, folks, doing great. How about you guys?
Doing good. Maybe we can do a mic check with Deploy Don.
with deployed on and yeah just uh my browser decided to log out of absolutely everything and
decide to switch dark mode to super bright mode so trying to fix all that is your browser canadian
it must be it's just garbage it's the worst like if you're one of those people that keeps your tabs open as a reminder
to do your tasks
and you have like 500 tabs open
just
it's awful when you lose it
let's see how many do I got right now
I got 184 tabs
between 8 windows
and each of those tabs is a new
deployed on app just like waiting to be
published
yeah pretty much Windows. And each of those tabs is a new Deploydon app just waiting to be published?
Yeah, pretty much.
Maybe only like 15 of those.
Maybe only like 15. Only 15.
That's outrageous,
actually. Go back to work, man.
No space for you. Only 15 apps?
Come on.
Okay, bye.
So, Like, no space for you. Only 15 apps? Come on. Okay, bye. So I invited Delta Mars up as a speaker.
When you get a chance, you can accept that.
So just as an overview for today's space,
we're going to be hearing from Deploy Don
talk about one of the most recent many applications
he launched called Super,
and then also from Delta Mars, who have released an application called Delta Mars as the namesake.
Both of these are kind of highlighting two important strategies that are possible on Neutron,
which we'll be able to dig into later.
And both of them are using the underlying smart contracts of Mars Protocol.
So they're here also to talk about that. So yeah, maybe we can start with Deploy Don,
introduce yourself, say a little bit about yourself, and we can move on to Delta Mars.
Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at the, who's in this spaces right now. And I think,
I think I know everybody here,
so I think everybody knows me.
So I don't know if there's much of an intro
really needed there.
So I think we can jump ahead to the Delta Mars side.
I mean, people may not be entirely familiar on that.
I think everybody here is familiar with me
or just every single name in here is familiar.
Everyone here loves Deploy Don.
I hear what you're saying.
You said it.
Should I jump in?
Intercept?
Yeah.
All you.
Yeah. So, yeah, I guess I can start off by saying what Delta Mars is.
Essentially, it's a sort of a wrapper around the Mars protocol that allows you with one click to essentially deploy delta neutral strategies. And that is basically the basis trait.
So you supply or you lend the collateral,
and then you can use that to short the underlying,
not the underlying, but the derivative or the perp of that.
So essentially you're neutral in terms of price exposure,
and you get both the lending rates as well as the funding rate
if it's positive.
If it's negative, then you actually pay.
So it's not an automated thing,
but it allows you to deploy and get out,
and you can monitor that however you like.
So that's a very quick introduction.
That's great.
That's pretty dope.
What compelled you to build
the app, the front end, for
making these strategies?
I'm a core contributor to Mars,
actually, so I do have
a good understanding of what our product
is. And essentially, we are a Gen 3 protocol, which allows you to do several stuff. But I felt
like, you know, a lot of people actually do this strategy. And, you know, a lot of people might not
know that this exists if they're not really, you DeFi or finance in general and how these things work.
So I think a one button or to abstract all the things you don't need and actually do strategies is something that's really up and coming in the Ethereum world.
And because we have this cross-collateralization with a a gen three protocol it allows you to to do
all these things um you know within one or two transactions so i guess it's like a newbie um
you know way to to start investing with advanced strategies like what's happening behind
can be advanced but you don't have to know that you just click one button and everything happens
to know that you just click one button and everything happens it's funny because i think
delta mars and what i did on super started at the exact same time because i was like the mars chat
and i saw delta mars get linked i was like oh this is what i was doing the last two three days as
well and then i dropped mine and then um i mean at the delta mars yeah there does a lot more than what Super does. I just wanted to make a fun spinning UI for it.
But yeah, it's just both kind of started at the exact same time
and were basically released at the same time
within like a 24-hour window, which is pretty funny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think both of them actually leaked.
So both of them weren't completely ready once they were out.
But yeah, both of them now are, I think, fully operational.
I have no idea where this is coming from.
Yeah, Sandro.
Yeah, I don't know either.
I don't know if you look at the contract I opened for yesterday, but ultimately...
For once, I claim absolutely no responsibility in those leaks.
It's already embedded in the culture, I would say.
You did a great job.
I don't know if you took a look at that contract that was over the first,
but ultimately it would work between the same, between both of them.
All it really does is handle all the actions all in one shot
so you can open the account and deposit and transfer
on behalf of the user.
So, yeah, I mean, ultimately, I think we did similar approaches
in trying to simplify the whole UI.
Are you also the same one that built,
what's the other lending side?
Neve or Neva.
No, that's actually Linky's side project.
He did while we were on our off-site.
And he felt he wanted to be included.
So he did that in a weekend too.
Everyone wants to be included in the new Mars UI.
Yeah, definitely.
I actually, I did a fork of Neve, of Neve.
I don't know what he's calling it,
the way he pronounces it,
but I think it's Neve.
Yeah, so I basically forked that
and built upon it.
So, you know, it's like Legos with these things.
Yeah. With Mars entirely,
like every piece you can kind of tap into and like a full bear does the same.
Jade does the same. And now we've got Delta Mars and super.
So there's a lot of different things that can come of it.
And I hope in open source in that contract that now it's,
it's a decent base where anyone can now
use it to trigger opening credit accounts depositing and just getting an understanding
of how to directly interact with it because the mar size is pretty there pretty solid but
i mean everything in one ui some is a little confusing but abstracting some of the core
pieces out seems to be really liked.
I'm sure a lot of people aren't even aware that Bull Bear is powered entirely by Mars underneath,
but it simplifies that one aspect.
Then you have the Delta Mars if you want to do the strategies,
if you want to do stable lending through other things.
So all these little pieces make the huge base,
I guess the huge beast that is Mars,
a little easier and less overwhelming for some average users.
But I mean, if you are a professional user
and you use everything all in one,
using the Mars UI directly,
you can get even more advanced by, I guess,
borrowing against all your deposits and using perps and lending and doing this
and doing that. So it's pretty cool how they all kind of tie together so you can
do an infinite number of things. And actually,
Elijah messaged me yesterday. He said, Hey, let's hop on a call this week and
figure out what else we can do. So.
That's cool. I actually totally forgot about Jade and how that was also built on Mars.
I made a post the other day about how there's already like four applications
built on top of Mars.
And I guess I should change that to five.
Yeah.
I mean, Jade,
I think because the lending rates on USCC has gone down so. And now on the Jade side, it's also fairly low.
So it was fun.
It was definitely fun to make.
The usage isn't entirely there.
But I think there's still like 50 to 70,000 just sitting there,
just earning 2% or 3%.
It's slightly higher than Mars, not by much,
primarily because i have
some of the uh lp added in there so i basically am giving up my yield to boost everyone else's
for the people yeah i think what don brought up is like really important thing. Like so many like side projects
or like builders doing stuff around Mars right now.
I think that that's really needed.
Like in my opinion, like Mars is a sophisticated protocol,
right?
So, and I think it's great to have like a start, right?
Like most people who start with defi
or like with a little bit more complex stuff in defy they don't want to do like the full uh suit
right so they want to do parts of it so maybe they start without peeing and then they get interested
in in perps trading uh and i think what is like really really a great feature or like the
basis for mars is like credit accounts right so like cross uh yeah like you can use like your
whole collateral it's cross collateral size so um but this requires so yeah like some degree of
knowledge and i think like uh like apps like Bull and Bear and now Delta Mars,
they are like doing a great job, right,
to just pick like a segment of it and then simplify it.
And once a user is like confident, right,
so after a certain time, I really sense and data shows as well, right?
So we have like a dashboard so anyone can uh make his own conclusions
but um you can see what's going on like volume wise open interest wise on um on bulimare and then
what's uh the difference right so what's the total what's on mars so there's like really clear indication. So like a lot of users using Bull and Bear, right?
Testing it with like more moderate capital, I would say. Sorry. And after a while, some of those users
going to Mars directly. And I think that should be the way, right? So then you can use like
Colorado features, maybe URLP as a backup, stuff like that.
And this needs time.
And I think those apps are doing such a tremendously great job at the moment.
And it also has like a lot of benefits, right?
So especially like the funding rate are like Delta Mars.
It's like really, really neat for Mars itself, right?
Which is like the back of those apps,
almost like the infra, funding rates are sometimes really high on Mars,
and have a simplified other side.
People can just earn it as a USDC EARM product, of course like with other risks right so so people need to be
aware uh what kind of risk are involved but i think delta mars is doing a great job they have
like docs they have a good uh explanations on on the ui itself um so yeah it's really, really fun to see at the moment what's going on.
I think, yeah, fuck yeah, I'm excited about it.
But I'm actually starting to realize that there might be,
so we're getting a lot more people into the space now,
which is exciting.
Not everybody might be super familiar with the strategy that we're talking about, nor the applications.
Myself, I have three brain cells.
So why don't you guys walk me through,
I suggest since we have two protocols,
let's do one after the other,
maybe starting with Super since like,
that's a simpler strategy, I would say.
How does that sound with you guys?
Like I have my ledger with me,
I'm gonna make deposits to both of the apps
to try them out and you just walk me through through it and why it makes sense uh why i might be interested
to do this strategy for my portfolio as well how does it sound oh you definitely don't want
investment advice from me because yeah like the inverse clusters always perform the best if you
if you want to do well just do the opposite of what i tell you there
are only two rules in finance counter trade jim kramer counter trade deployed on if you can
counter trade both at the same time your portfolio explodes yeah um all right so so let's talk about
four strategies um d neutro neutro and d adam adam tia tia and statum and atom um essentially
it's just a different ui for the high leverage strategy section of mars um so you can deposit
um for example in the d neutron one you can deposit d neutron choose your leverage it will
borrow that much neutron loop it in and basically you'll be farming that funding rate so if you go max you can earn up
the 24 on it okay so i have some i have some interior in my wallet right now i'm gonna
connect to super so i'm on an app called super.zone right uh you can you can you can have a look at it. It has a very interesting style.
So, okay.
S-O-O-P-E-R.zone.
Yeah, S-O-O-P-E-R.zone.
So I have ntrn into my account,
and I see that that's not what I'm supposed to deposit.
I need dntrn, right?
No, you need dntrn, yes.
All right.
So I'm first going to go to app.drop.money.
Right.
I have, let's say, about 15k NTRN.
I'm going to stake the vast majority of that.
I get a little bit less DNTRN since DN one dnteran is worth more than one nteran.
And I'm going to do that staking transaction.
So with my dnteran, I now get the staking rewards on Neutron, which are about 3% per year.
And I get droplets, which are rewards that are distributed by the drop
protocol as part of its launch process.
So maybe I will get a share of the drop airdrop for these points.
Cool.
I now have my...
So on the super side, when it has to create you a credit account, it will
create your credit account, do your deposit, then it's also going to
transfer that credit account right back to you so that way you earn the droplets and now you can
essentially manage that account on super.zone or if you go straight to mars it'll be there as well
so you're not locked to super now you can have access to that on mars that's really cool. Do you want to, Delta Mars, do you want to explain to us really quick like what the credit account is?
Yeah, so essentially what it is, like in essence, it's an NFT that the owner of that is your wallet essentially.
And it sort of acts like a bank account as well as like a brokerage account, if you're familiar with TradFi terms.
So yeah, it's essentially like a sub-account
if you would use like Pybit or Binance
or all of these centralized exchanges.
Basically, the goal of that is to isolate your collateral
within that account.
And then there's default accounts,
and then there's HLS accounts.
So, I don't know, would you like me to go
into actual Mars
terms or should I?
I think we can talk about HLS
afterwards, but well, actually
really quick, like deployed on, do you use HLS
or do you use normal accounts for D and
Terran and Terran looping? Well, for
the super... It's all HLS, right?
Yeah. Okay, so then let's compare
what they do.
Standard side of pounce.
For now, for now.
We can get into that later.
For now, yes.
I've been hearing that for a while.
I don't know the timelines, though.
Well, we'll get into that, too.
Interesting conversations.
Let's leak some stuff.
But first, like, okay,
what's the difference
between a normal HLS account?
Well, sorry, a normal and a HLS account.
Would you like me to go ahead with that?
Yeah, before I could probably go ahead with it.
Okay, cool. So basically default accounts, you can have basically lend and borrow,
that's called the Red Bank, and then you can have perps as well as farming and staking.
And that's all cross-collateralized, essentially.
And you can have as many of those sub-accounts or credit accounts,
the default ones, as you want.
But we also have this thing called HLS,
which stands for High Leverage Staking.
And you can only have one per wallet.
And what that does essentially is you supply basically one of a derivative asset.
So, you know, DNTRN.
And you deploy into a DNTRN or NTRN.
Let me start over because I'm rumbling.
So basically you can have drop
or stride derivatives of assets,
and then you deploy into NLP
that has both the staked asset
as well as the actual asset, the underlying asset.
And then you can achieve very high leverage through that
because the two prices are very connected
and there's not too much price movement between them.
So what that allows you to do is, yeah.
Let me try to feed that back to you.
So normal accounts, all of the assets are supported.
I can do pretty much anything.
So I have full flexibility, but I have some constraints on how aggressive I can go.
My max leverage is sort of limited, but I can do anything.
And then HLS accounts are sort of isolated and they're optimized for doing one thing, but really, really aggressively.
And so I have restrictions on the types of assets, the types of trade I can do.
But those trades that I can do, I can go really, really far and push the leverage very, very far.
Is that correct?
Yes, basically. Because these have very tight price difference and the change isn't that big,
we can essentially allow with our risk framework a very higher max leverage than a traditional default account so
you mentioned something that's interesting because i had no clue about it uh and i'm going to change
the color of my super blooper for some reason to accompany this discussion it's a it's a new chapter
uh is that i can only have one hls accounts per like in my in my wallet is that correct because
i already have one and i'm farming some DATOM atom already.
You can have multiple,
but you can only have one position per account.
Per HLS.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, that makes sense.
All right.
So I'm on super.
It's now looking blue with a nice navy background.
I have my 15k DNTRN in there.
So I selected it in the input.
And now I see a slider that says leverage 1X.
And I can go up to 7X.
What are the risks that I'm taking here once I make this transaction?
I mean, ultimately to me like and again my financial advice is probably not the best
but because these are both essentially uh an asset and then the lst version of the asset
as long as there's no massive dpeg event you should not get liquidated correct i believe yeah that's that's the idea yeah yeah
yeah so i mean i haven't gotten liquidated in hls strategy yet and if i haven't gotten liquidated
that's a pretty good sign it has to be basically impossible just kidding um yeah yeah so the idea is the idea is that uh mars allows
me to borrow a lot of assets uh and as long as my collateral is worth enough to cover that debt then
i i don't have to get liquidated and because we're in hls we can be very aggressive so the
differential between like every every time i do a loop um I can borrow a large amount. So I can go to up to
like pretty high leverage. And as long as DNTRN doesn't de-peg, e.g. change price violently
versus NTRN, as long as it stays close to the redemption rate, then I shouldn't be liquidated
or lose money. Now, Fluffy, do you want to tell us a bit about what the dow has done to
try and like help prevent these kinds of circumstances and make the interior more
viable lst oh on on a side note it looks like on on through mars directly so you can go up to 7.1
x leverage and on super you can go up to 7.14 so i imagine the mars ui scaled it back slightly just so you have a bit more of a buffer
rather than going full some point so i i should maybe even scale this one back slightly just so
you can't be right on let me let me just get instantly liquidated i don't think you would
I don't think he would still, but we can leave some dust there just in case.
still but if john hasn't got some dust there just in case
I'm going to do one at the absolute peak just to see what happens.
I also, just like as a tiny, tiny summary for this strategy, like the people, people
might be asking like, why would I want to do this?
And the people that want to do this strategy are those who are very bullish on the underlying
asset and want to get the most amount of exposure,
like the most, they want exposure to this asset, and they want the most amount of yield on this
asset. And you can do this with no LPN, like, you know, single asset exposure to these assets. So
you have Neutron, TIA, Atom right now, in the future, we might have other assets. But for now,
atom right now in the future we might have other assets but for now this is like the best way to
get single asset yield on these um on these at tokens so for neutron the staking rate is only
three percent apr and so you're thinking well if i want to if i'm bullish on neutron how do i get
the most the highest staking yield on neutron this is the answer and the reason this is is because
like people
said previously, there's a difference between the borrow, what you pay to borrow it and what you earn
by holding the liquid staking token. And when you leverage up multiple times, you're able to
multiply that difference and earn a much higher staking rate. So in this case, what is it right
now? It's paid like 20% APR on just holding Neutron. So you're able to really maximize your yield on the single token.
So you're thinking, okay, where does this come from?
And how does the market maybe balance or realize this potential?
And this is because the Neutron DAO has seeded a lot of Neutron tokens into Mars,
into the lending side of Mars, such that the
borrowing capacity is much cheaper and much larger for people to leverage this strategy.
And so it means that right now it's extremely cheap to borrow the neutron token. And you can
do this loop many times and profit off of every loop that you perform. And so, okay, so that's how that, so what I've
addressed so far is who are the people that want to use this? Okay, you're bullish on the neutron
token and want to get the most amount of yield or the same thing for the Atom and TIA tokens.
Why it happens? Because there's a discrepancy between the borrow amount and the staking rate
of these assets. And three, like, what are the risks and how do we
protect ourselves against the risks? So people have already touched on that. And that's, well,
as long as the liquid stake token does not DPEG, then you're fine. It's, I would say,
more of like a mid to long term strategy, because the longer you're in this, the more
you'll be able to soak up those rewards. and of course with every strategy there are entry and
exit fees and so the longer you're in any strategy including this one the more likely you are to
remain profitable in the end okay so what is neutron doing to like protect the peg basically
if this is one of our our premier strategies so we have Astroport, which is a DEX.
We have Super Vaults, which are a special kind of LP.
And we have Duality, which is an order book.
And in order to make liquid state tokens,
kind of the baseline for DeFi in Neutron,
they need to have good liquidity,
they need to have good execution,
and they need to stay on peg.
And so the three apps I just mentioned create a baseline liquidity layer for making sure that liquid stake tokens have good liquidity, good execution on trades.
And if those two things are able to be accomplished, then this strategy becomes much more powerful and much more appealing.
to be accomplished then this strategy becomes much more powerful and much more appealing
all right so now that we have the full context let me go and lose uh general generational wealth on
this app so i've um i've set up all of my dn turen i've selected uh max leverage. So it looks like your health becomes 3%.
So it's fairly close to liquidation if you fully max it out.
Okay, okay.
I put 7x, not 7.14x.
So not a full max.
I should be on the edge.
So please drop, do not de-peg.
I believe in you.
So one piece of information is the Neututral DAO has provided shit tons of liquidity to help secure the peg, basically. And so using, like,
hopefully based on that, I don't think that, you know, and this is just my personal
belief, right? Like, do your, like, you know,
think about it yourself when you're making these decisions
and don't get wrecked.
But I personally feel safe with that.
So I created a pretty aggressive position.
Okay, I just signed the transaction.
So I deposited about 14K DNTRN at 7x leverage.
That created a position which is 90k DNTRN in total size
because I am borrowing about 75k DNTRN,
using it to mint DNTRN,
and then using that as collateral again
and repeating this thing, right?
And since I'm earning about 3% on my DNTRN and then using that as collateral again and repeating this thing right and since I'm earning
about three percent on on my dnTRN and I'm paying 0.9 percent on my nTRN that I'm borrowing from
Mars um I'm earning the difference every time right so like these two percents every time and
I'm doing this almost 10 times so I'm getting a nice 20 percent APR out of this. And my health is 20%.
Yeah, Neutron also deposited into the Neutron pool as well, right?
So you reduced the borrow rates?
Or did you only provide D-Neutron Neutron liquidity?
So the Neutron DAO did both.
Neutron DAO staked some NTRN with a drop in order to mint the NTRN.
And then it provided this and additional treasury NTRN into an Astroport pool in order to help create deep liquidity for the asset.
It also deployed, I believe, 4 million NTRN into lending on Mars.
Tieran into lending on Mars. And Mars itself, the reason why the borrowing rates are so low
is because both the Neutron Dow provided a lot of lending supply, but also because Mars itself
updated its utilization curve in order to adjust it to the staking rewards such that
how you adjust it to the staking rewards such that the staking rewards yield or cost is only reached around the optimal utilization instead of way before,
which makes the strategy way more appealing for users, basically.
And I guess it was safe for them to do so because of the high liquidity deposit, right? So if they ever had to roll back a position, they have the heavy liquidity.
So that way they don't have to worry about slippage and bad debt.
Yeah.
And it's also like, you know, the optimal utilization, like where the optimal utilization was did not change, right?
Like the MARS as a protocol was already targeting about you know 70 utilization eg 70
of the internet being lent on mars um the protocol was happy lending out um so that didn't change
it's just that like before the curve was very very flat eg at uh 20 utilization the borrowing
cost would be like 2.5 already whereas now Whereas now what it does is that it starts much lower,
right? Like right now it's like 0.9, right? So much lower and it sort of like gradually ramps
up. And it's only after the sort of like the target utilization that it increases very rapidly
in order to like encourage people to close their positions. Whereas before it was way more so like
stable. So like basically basically, the strategy was
pretty much unprofitable at all, at all utilization points. But there wasn't this kind of like a
rapid increase afterwards. So it's, it's more so just like how the curve itself of like how
the boring is managed that that was updated, which, which I think is, is fine. I'll be talking
under you guys's control. since we're not experts here.
We're just rehashing the context that we have,
but you might be able to share more specifically.
In any case, I would say that my position is open.
I'm now leverage looping on super on Mars.
I'd love to now open a delta neutral position on delta Mars.
Do you want to run me through this, perhaps?
Yeah, sure.
So essentially, for the moment, and I'm saying for the moment
because this might change, you will need to go to app.delta-mars.com.
And essentially here, you will see a list of delta mutual
strategies that you can actually execute.
And so to do so, you would need the collateral asset.
If you don't, you would see bridge slash swap and deploy.
Well, so I have $600 of DTA
if we want to
play around with that, maybe.
Cool. Yeah, we can do it with that.
So you should
see now deploy
strategy on the DTA
slash TTA pair on
the main screen.
Yeah, I see it.
One sec. Let me just withdraw my DTF from Mars
because it's already in my credit account, actually.
You can actually use, if it's just there,
you can actually use it directly
because you can select credit accounts
from the top right.
Oh, yeah, I see it.
So if you're already in Mars,
you can use them directly from the credit account.
So once you click that,
you should see your assets there,
and you can select how much you want to deploy.
Will it create it into the same credit account,
or is it going to create a dedicated credit account afterwards
that it does the strategy in pick?
So if you have selected the assets from within an existing credit account,
you should use the same one.
Because elsewhere, you would have to withdraw
and then create a new one.
So if you have them inside an existing credit account,
it will use that to deploy, essentially.
But if you have them in your wallet,
you can select to deploy into a specific credit account
or just do it in a new one.
Okay, that makes sense.
I'm going to move my funds, like my DTA, because I have a few positions already open in that credit account.
So I'm going to switch credit accounts. So as you were saying, right, like Mars has this ability to,
just like you would on a centralized exchange or something, if you want to track your position
better, or if you want to isolate the risk of positions, you can split your position and your collateral
across multiple types of accounts
and across multiple sub-accounts itself.
So here I'm taking my DTA,
I'm putting it into another credit account
that will just have this.
This way I'm going to be able to track my P&L cleanly
cleanly and see if that made me money or lost me money. And I now see it on Delta Mars.
and see if that made me money or lost me money.
So if I don't have the asset, it tells me bridge and deploy. If I do have the asset
in a current account somewhere, then it just tells me, let me check that I'm using the right account.
Which one is this?
That is 100.
Okay.
Where did I put my money?
Oh, I created a new account.
Yeah, I created a new, that's why I was surprised.
Never mind.
Don't do this, like, you know, professionals are doing this. Don't do this. Professionals are doing this.
Don't do this at home, kids.
Okay, there we go. Yes, so I see it.
Okay, I can now deploy into the strategy.
So what is it going to do?
So I have my DTN and Mars Credit account right now.
Yeah, so the idea behind it is you deploy and lend the collateral asset. So you earn both the lending
as well as any staking rewards that there is.
So if you do just TIA, the standard TIA,
you'll just have the lending rate.
But if you do DTIA, which is not borable or lendable,
you can deploy it though.
You can supply it to your credit account.
You will actually receive the underlying drop staking APY
as well as the droplets, of course.
So by doing this strategy, essentially,
you lend the collateral
and then you take the USD value of that amount.
Then you short the corresponding perpetual
we have for that asset.
So if you do DTIA, it's going to short the PERP on TIA to essentially be fully delta neutral.
So what that means again is you have no price exposure.
So if TIA price or DTIA price jumps, essentially your short will cover the no, the other way, if it dumps, I mean,
your short will cover the loss
and the other way around, of course, too.
So then what you actually only receive
is the lending or staking from the collateral
and then the funding rate from shorting the perp.
So it's like basically a stable APY.
Yeah, which is really exciting.
So for example, if I had stables, like here, I already had the asset.
I already had a position in basically all of the assets that are supported.
I have Intrn, Atom, Intrn, so I could already use these things.
But for example, if I only had stable coins, I could get into that position
and not expect a ton of volatility, just expect to make the yield,
which is pretty interesting.
It's also interesting that you created this UI
in a way that I can use both the native asset itself,
like TIA, for example,
or the liquid staking token.
Every time I was thinking about it,
I only thought about doing it with the LST.
But what's interesting is that
there's kind of like a synergy
between the leverage looping and like Super Looper and the Delta Neutral strategy in the sense that because leverage looping is possible, if the borrowing cost, e.g. the lending APR, is much lower than the staking rewards, then people are encouraged to leverage loop, right? So to use the LST as collateral, borrow the native asset.
And in doing so, in borrowing more and more in order to do the leverage loop, they're actually
bringing the lending APY up, right? So at the end of the day, it's actually pretty close to the
staking rewards. So I can do the two trades here. And I see from Delta Mars that if I do it with TI itself,
I get 90% APR with the current funding rates and everything.
And if I do it with DTI, I get 92%.
So really, really close, actually.
And most of that comes from the funding rates,
not from the staking rewards.
Okay, so let me go ahead and uh deploy i am going to put a hundred percent of
my position there and is it possible to do that trade on leverage because like here i assume
we're doing um for one tia as collateral yeah um so it's one x explorer but would i be able to do
this on leverage if i wanted
to maximize my yield uh and i was comfortable with with some risk what would be the the trade-offs
and so yeah so you you can do it with leverage not a lot of leverage um but you can actually do
this manually on mars um the idea is to at some point have something like 1.5x, which is almost liquidatable.
It's right there on the edge.
So theoretically, you can do this at around 1.5x leverage,
this whole strategy.
So what you would do is, once you have lent the collateral,
then you would borrow some USDC
and then swap that back to your collateral.
So now you have
leverage, essentially, exposure
to your collateral.
And then you can short more
of the perp to match that new size.
And that would achieve around
1.5 with some quick maths
on the whole position.
So, for example, here
it would be like 140-5 uh percent okay so yeah
i see that that makes sense but i guess the the trade-off there is that i'm now paying the usdc
borrowing like if i if i did on leverage i would also be paying the this cost and such and might
not be be worth it and it's also a bit more risky, but okay. So anyway, that's not how Delta Mars currently functions. I've just signed my transaction. So now I have this position open.
I'm getting 86% combined yield on the size of my position. Now I see, and this is great,
actually, you guys display the P&L from the get-go. So I know exactly how much money I
made or I lost. And right now I'm already at a loss.
I lost 82 cents, the grand total of 82 cents.
Can you walk me through where that's from?
So we don't actually take any fees before you say anything about that.
It's actually the cost of opening the purpose positions on the March protocol.
So that includes all the opening fees and just the realized, not the Mars protocol. So that includes all the opening fees
and just the realized, not the unrealized.
So once you do that, of course, you will have some loss,
which is by opening the position,
which will theoretically, if you did your math correctly,
be out of the loss at some point very quickly
if you did it with the correct APR.
So that's just being the fees that are... point very quickly if you did with the correct APR. So yeah, I also see that you have a projection of like how much money I should be making at this current yield, knowing that the yield can change, right? Since it depends on the funding rates.
Right now, the app is projecting that I should be making 0.2% every day, right?
So like 86% per year, 0.2 percent every day which accounts to like
about a bucks or so right so like my 82 cents of losses uh if i hold this position until tomorrow
i should be i should be in profits already exactly um yeah now you know we're like we discussed
briefly about where the yield is coming from and it's coming from the funding rates on mars
perpetuals um do you want to do you want to tell us a bit about the risks here because like this
position could turn like it's in terms of exposure it should be fine but in terms of yield it could
it could turn it against me right so if if you if you look before you ape ape in essentially that
you have some stats underneath uh each strategy so So that is total open interest and then perp skew. This essentially tells you what the current state of the perp market is. So if you see, for example, the perp skew right now on TIA is positive, that means that the funding rate will keep climbing.
that the funding rate will keep climbing
or it depends if it's very small, close to zero,
it will actually, and the funding rate is right now
84%, 85%.
That should lower to match that skew.
But if the skew gets negative, for example,
you should expect if no one else enters the market
for the funding rate to go negative, that
means you're now paying to actually keep your short position
open. And the longs essentially are paying the shorts. I mean,
the opposite side, the shorts are paying the longs in that
condition. So you need to be careful and be on top of it. So
the risk here, I guess, would be, you know,
you start to have negative yield on your strategy
and you start losing or paying money to have your position open.
So you would need to watch these, you know,
not let them be and expect returns.
Well, especially for now that Marsh is, like,
Marsh perps are pretty new, so that's
why the market is also volatile
in that sense, like it can, like
the funding rates can go one way
or the other, but as Marsh becomes bigger,
it should become more stable, more predictable,
I guess. Definitely.
And it's also
potentially less juicy.
Less juicy, but it's always a trade-off, right?
When you have more liquidity, you have more players trying to ARP these opportunities.
So you should probably get in sooner rather than later to capture these.
Because now, essentially, what we have here with Delta Mars is essentially matching the people who try to speculate going long on these assets on the perp side.
And we actually, they increase the skew positive.
And with Delta Mars, you essentially get paid sort of like the counterparty vault does in this scenario to take the other side, essentially, which for now, it's very profitable to do so.
Yep, that makes a lot of sense.
Now, so I've opened two strategies today.
One is a leveraged looping strategy,
which means that I have a leveraged exposure
to the price of this asset.
And the other one is a delta neutral strategy,
which means that I don't have any exposure
to the price of the underlying asset anymore.
So depending on how I'm feeling about the assets,
actually, I might want to use one or the other,
but both are pretty high yield actually.
So for example, if I think that TIA or Atom or NTRN
are pretty cheap and that they're going to increase in price, I probably
want to be leverage looping rather than using Delta Mars. But if I think that something is
inflated, like the price is too high and it's going to go down, or that the market is going
to crash, for example, then I would be much better off with a Delta Mars strategy, correct?
then I would be much better off with a Delta Mars strategy, correct?
Yes, that's the idea.
It's for speculators more, I'd say, when you do leverage looping.
And Delta Mars is to reduce your risk to prices.
Yeah, it's like if you have stablecoins laying around and you want to earn yields,
you could consider deploying them into one of
these strategies. Exactly. Yeah, that's really cool. One thing that I expect, so like right now,
the main thing that I'm worried about is, you know, I spend a lot of time working and not
checking my positions. And so my main concern with Delta Mars and with Super Looper actually is,
what happens if the funding rates turns against me, right?
And I wanna close my position
before it sort of like starts eating into my gains.
Do you have any idea of like how you could,
so like help solve that problem for you,
like notify me of that or any of these things?
Yeah, so there's two, I guess, ways to look at this. So one is to, you know,
deploy some sort of external alert or notification service that tells you what happens on this.
I think this isn't really a good idea to rely on these things. It is an active strategy.
It's not something you should probably leave and come back a year later.
But as Mars gets more liquidity, you should see that these funding rates will normalize to what other exchanges have.
So you would expect around a 10 to 15 percent positive funding rate. So that means from the short, you would get around 10 to 15% positive funding rate.
So that means from the short, you would get around 10 to 15% yield per year.
And then depending on the lending rates, you should, you know, if it's like 6 to 7 or 8,
9%, which is the, you know, what Aave usually has, you can expect around a, you know, 20,
25% when Mars goes ballistic with liquidity. So there's the quick and
unnatural way to do it with some Web2 tools to alert you. But I'd say it's better for people to
be aware of what they're doing to not have these left and go away.
Okay, so you were saying it's like,
I should just come in every day, check my position,
and decide whether or not to keep it open?
Well, it depends, right?
Because you can have someone ape in a very big short,
and then funding rates start to decline,
but then they get liquidated,
and then funding rates return. So because the volume isn't that big at the moment, it's sort of a wild west.
You need to be on top of it.
But as more liquidity comes into the market, it should be normalized and smoother, these
changes to funding rate.
Just as a bit of context for the for the delta mars strategies i've had the
the atom strategy open since january and i have not touched it at all and it's netted over 40
apr and the tia one has been open since february and it's been i think 75 apr APR or something. And yes, it flips negative sometimes, but in general,
the funding rates are positive. Meaning, yeah, if you check it every day and you see a negative rate,
you don't need to immediately get concerned because it often flips back. And a tool to help
you navigate that is that there's a stats page on Mars. So on Mars, you can go to stats.marsprotocol.io
and it has like tons of stats on Mars. It has information about liquidations. It has
information about borrow lending. And what's relevant here is it has stats about the perps.
And so you can go to your Adam or Tia or Neutron and look at the funding rate over time.
It has, I think, three months of data.
And so you can go back and see what is the historical funding rate on Neutron.
Is it positive? Is it negative?
When it flips negative, how negative does it go compared to how positive it goes?
And basically, you just want that line to be above zero.
And that means you're in profit.
That's the other benefit of this strategy, using a liquid staking token as your collateral is that in the case of adam even the funding rate
can go down to negative 10 and you're still profiting with this strategy you're still making
like a four percent apr yeah it's nothing to write home about, but 4% is as competitive as some lending protocols.
And that's potentially the low point of the funding rate if you look at the historical chart.
That's a really good point, actually.
I just noticed, well, two things.
How come the stats page is not on the app itself?
It would be great to have a quick shortcut there
because I think a lot of people actually don't know about its existence.
But my question is,
I'm looking at the perps counterparty vault right now.
And the TVL has been increasing very nicely.
It was at 500k. It's now about 600k.
And what caught my attention is the API is at 70%.
What is your read on this?
What is happening?
And do you think that it's going to continue?
What is the trade-offs of that position and such for people to know?
What does their counterparty vault do?
And what should people know about it
sandra do you want to come in here
yeah sure so like our counter party world in its name like counter party right so
so you take the opposite at the opposite position of uh mars purpose rate
like active traders right so and you can deposit into uh the mars counterparty world as spade said
it's uh uh around 70 uh currently so uh if you navigate to uh app.marsprotocol.io you go to the earn tab and then you have three other tabs
go to the right perps vault you see it's yeah 71.6 percent and api uh it's i think a 30-day average
rollover so uh most likely when you see it increasing it's actually the better but of course there
are like risk involved right so and I think in this context like most strategies we talked about
it's yeah it's really important to know like the what is behind or what you're doing right so and this is i would say not like a
simple urn product even if it's tempting right it's 71 on usdc but it's it comes with certain
risk right so i would say it's manageable also based on other protocols, right? Or just like experience, like market observation.
You can, or you could like really put that together
to just like one phrase, like the house always wins.
But I would say like, this is true,
like on a long time scale, right?
But temporarily, I mean, like uh yeah stefano's uh
i think you can say your name uh mentioned as well right it's uh i would say like perp status
it's still volatile it's still early right so it's not like huge numbers yet and therefore things can change faster than I would say like with
10 million deposits right so yeah what is important to note it's a 10 day lock up right so you with your usdc and then it really depends what the traders on mars are doing as mentioned most of the
time house wins so that means just you can also observe that on the stats page it's just about price profits at the end, right? And if Mars traders lose, right?
So like in general, the API goes up.
And that's why 71% API is on that vault currently.
You could argue Mars traders are bad, right?
But you have like similar stats on other protocols, right?
So maybe you're familiar with TIDX, Megawalt, or other.
It's not 100% the same mechanic, but it works in the same way, right?
So yeah, it's important to understand if a trader,
let's say if a big trader will come to Mars, right?
And will be utterly successful, right? So maybe like the counter version currently
of this wind guy on hyper liquid,
which is like-
The contrary of deployed on comes into Mars.
Oh, the contrary of deployed on, right?
So let's say this trader would make bank, right?
With a trade, bam.
Of course, that would influence
then the counterparty world right so because the
counterparty balls pays for his gains and therefore the api would shrink so you could lose temporarily
money so for me it's also it's it's a pretty neat thing for me i would really like i don't recommend like financial strategies or advice but i would
recommend if you do such things uh take enough time right um manage it really closely like uh
the the funding rates uh on delta mars if you take a delta neutral positions because it can flip
and here i would say it's different mechanic and it's uh
i would say um it's more predictable um than than the other rates but uh yeah it needs to be like
managed and you should stay uh in for quite some time right so don't do this just like uh like funding rape stuff for a couple of hours right
so we had a pretty funny inception story right so with a prominent cosmos figure who aped in
quite some junk of money on delta mars and uh yeah turned out uh he wasn't like really aware
what he was doing um and the same could happen on Perp's rights.
But if you know what you're doing,
I think it's a really, really great opportunity
to earn a really high API on stables,
which is really a pretty unique option,
especially in Cosmos currently.
That's sick.
Thank you, folks, for presenting both of these protocols
and giving us so much more context on Mars.
I will leave you in Fluffy's and deploy-ons capable hands
because I have to take a call with a couple of large companies
right now.
We're cooking on Neutron.
But it was great to hang out.
And I'll
see you around. Take care, folks.
See you later, Spade.
Yeah, I gotta get going
shortly as well. I actually
cracked a tooth yesterday, so I gotta go
get it fixed.
Okay, you do that.
Before people,
I mean, you can guard the blade play down i just always want to give
a chance to the community to ask some questions so this is your time to come up um if anyone
any of the speakers need to go i understand we are at time and i got a few extra minutes so if
anyone has any questions we can do that cool yeah so i guess while we're while we're waiting for
any requests of the speakers i also just wanted to out, I see some cutes in the audience.
Man, Steve and Bradva rocking cutes from the new Mint and Barra rocking some quarks from the new Mint.
So if anyone missed that, Super Bolt is the new NFT platform that launched on Neutron and it's live with two ongoing Mints right now.
So check that out if you're interested in NFTs.
Oh, we have a request.
Hello, Mr. Five. How are you?
I see all the cubes down there too, and I love it.
Just had a question because I saw you open source uh supers contracts and
how in relation to that can we do like the clyde's bull bear trading bot you know can
we do like a compounding looper bot as well uh i mean technically I guess you could.
Yeah, but you wouldn't really need the contract for that.
So you could technically make a script that can just deposit.
And see, these HLS strategies automatically compound those.
Oh, okay.
Okay, I didn't know if that was the case.
Yeah, I'm trying to think of what else could you –
like maybe something on the Delta Ne neutral side or the Delta Mars side where you're shorting an asset with funding rates and stuff.
It might make sense to automate some aspects of that where maybe when the funding rate goes negative, you might want to automatically close it out or rebalance the position.
So I think something on the Delta Mars side to automate would make more sense than on the HLS side for things like super or just those strategies, because ultimately they are just the asset with the liquid stake diversion.
So generally you're just farming those rewards that they compound into itself.
But yeah, I'm sure you could do some automations in terms of closing positions on delta mars
gotcha gotcha i just thought i guess i got confused whenever they're saying you know
the actual looping part i thought there was like take the rewards and then compound it back in for
more looping but yeah that's cool i mean i think there's potentially some, I haven't played as much as you have with the bot, but something I was talking to Deploy Don about was if there's a way to time the entry and exit of the high leverage strategies, then you could potentially be more profitable there, like making sure you enter at the right time and exit at the right time.
And so maybe the bot could help with that.
Yeah. making sure you enter at the right time and exit at the right time. And so maybe the bot could help with that. Yeah, that's a good point.
You mentioned regarding HLS.
I think still, I think Spade mentioned in the process,
like that the underlying assets, like the drop assets,
that gets minted.
I think that will happen in
the future right so like direct connection to drop um what happens right now is uh you borrow
and you swap right so um like on Mars but in the back it's connected to Astro port
connected to S report.
So it really, really depends on execution, right?
So also like on pool balance, et cetera.
I think Don mentioned liquidity increase on S report.
I think that that's important, right?
But what will be like way, way better,
and I hope we can ship that in the next coming months is
uh yeah the direct connection to drop right that you actually mint the asset and you don't need to
swap it anymore then and that's yeah that should also like improve the execution part by a lot. And I think maybe a full duality integration at some point
would even improve it further.
Yeah.
So looking forward to that.
Cool.
Well, if we have no other members from the audience that have any questions about either of
the applications we've been mentioning here, which could be Mars Protocol, Delta Mars, or Super,
then we can just proceed to closing the space out. And if you have any other questions,
don't hesitate to join our discord or telegram
and ask your questions there you can find those by going to our the neutron twitter uh twitter
account going to the website and the socials are listed there there's plenty of people that are
happy to chat about defy strategies in fact every week every wednesday at 2 p.m ut. I'm doing a 30 minute AMA for DeFi strategy.
You can also come there. I can share my screen. We can go into any of these
apps and do them together.
If there are no other questions, thank you Deploy Don and Delta Mars
and Mars Protocol for coming and speaking about these cool applications
for Delta and Mars Protocol for coming and speaking about these cool applications for delta neutral
strategies and for leverage looping. These are two extremely profitable strategies if used
correctly, and they're very capital efficient on neutron because of some of the infrastructure we
have in place. So thanks everyone for coming and look forward to next week and what our,
what our neutron nation is about next week. Thanks everyone. See you next week.
Thank you. On a side note,
bull bear did 10 million volume this week.
We hit the 10 million total volume mark, all of it running through Mars.
So that's pretty cool.
That's awesome. 10 million. That's awesome.
10 million and zero fees collected.
At least on the bull bear side. Mars eats all the fees.
Yeah. We need to use that for potential burns.
Oh, while you're still here,
high-level HLS potential burns oh uh while you're still here uh high level uh hls for perps when's that coming
hls for perps like from my understanding there's going to be higher leverage options available oh yeah yeah yeah like uh uh like isolated credit accounts uh like like yeah which allow higher leverage I think I can't name your
date of course but I think it's on the roadmap so probably I can tell you I mean I can leak
another alpha we go next week into like final stage of managed wall testing on mainnet
um i think a little bit after maybe like the team is testing i would say like maybe a week
max and then we invite people like uh fluffy right so like people from the community and who's interested to run a vault so they have a
little head start can get familiar with it so right now uh that's like a really big focus uh
focus of Mars uh to ship managed walls uh fine-tune it afterwards but I think uh yeah
But I think, yeah, this could come potentially maybe end of summer or so.
Do we have any, is it too early to know, but do we have any insights as to what that's going to bring the leverage maximums up to?
Like right now, I think you do like 8x on Bitcoin burps.
Like, do we have an idea?
Like, is that going to go to 15?
Is it going to go to 50?
Or is that still up in the air?
Your internal risk? I don't know the correct number i i think i need to talk with like patiana like she's running
like a risk management mars right so um what i've heard it's something between not like 50x rights i think if the people want the people want 100x give the
people what they want yeah yeah i mean yeah some some people do of course i mean uh uh but i'm not
sure if that's achievable in the current model but uh i think uh we will see yeah some good increase right so i think something around
10 20 x should be possible but uh yeah i don't want to name numbers or disappoint people and
then afterwards it's uh something different but it should increase um yeah so what i'll do on
bull bear is i'll have an option for 100x, but when you deposit into that, it just burns it.
It doesn't even try.
It'll just burn it.
Send it to your wallet.
Yeah, it just sends it to me.
That's where the fees come from.
It's probably 99%.
It's like, sorry you got liquidated.
As soon as you open a position, it's just sorry, liquidated.
Yeah, it seems like a...
The funny thing is, if I was playing with that i'd be like god damn
that makes sense i wouldn't even really look into it but um i broke a tooth eating a burrito
yesterday i gotta go get it fixed so i will be back in a couple hours you're the only one in
the world who has ever said that yeah i know i don't even eat like meat or anything so it's not like i was like
chewing on something hard like no like broke a tooth in half
fun times but anyways um okay it's 20x possibly 20x leverage. That sounds good. Even if it's 15, that's a huge increase.
But we'll work our way to 100x.
We'll get there.
Slowly but surely.
I got to go too, guys.
All right, have a good one.
Talk soon.
Thanks, guys. Thanks, everyone, everyone for coming Talk to you guys later
Bye Thank you.
