testing testing I think we're coca give me a thumbs up you can hear this I think
we're I think I think we are good to go oh baby let's get this so give us a
second we're about to have English roll-on through thank you guys thank you
for the thumbs up we're gonna have English roll-on through we have in the
background holy crap 24 to 7 lions over over the Niners right now we're cooking
we're cooking with gas give me like give me a few minutes here
how's English I go yard I'm going to go yard him have you tuning in on the
recording give us like five minutes and we'll be ready to roll it's gonna be a
good time tonight that's fact okay what's up Scotty by the way sub chatter it's
good to see you guys likewise brother just came to hang out this is where the
alphas at tonight so couldn't miss this one fact factual except where the hell
is English I'm gonna I'm gonna yell I'm literally gonna beat his ass he's
finishing up on the space he'll be over here oh my god that's so funny but by
the way good Sunday's been good plenty of work today plenty of stuff to do but it
went well so far so good okay I think I've seen it just by looking at some of the
charts but and like looking at looking at the whatever it's called blanking the
lone walls and bid walls but not looked close enough but again we'll dive into
that surely no it's a sure microphone it's a sure yeah just give me like two
minutes I guess we're gonna have like the starting hiccups as always but there
we go I see him now bless all right once he gets up here I'll shut my mouth up
for a few minutes as we get things rolling here we go yes is it working I
think it's working there we go all right what's up English let's hit it
Oh is it oh this is being fumbled but it's okay it's okay English is your is
your is your phone working today he's had this happen before he has
performance anxiety sometimes I'm only messing I thought somebody was talking
nobody else is talking beside you right I was getting insider information day
tonight I forgot about the spaces I'm sorry that's so funny all right crank it
let's hit some M&M it's Detroit day you're muted English oh Jesus dude I'm so
fucking you want to wait for the music dude no I want to hear some music let's
get things into it cuz I need to send out the invite so right now and we'll also
update so a couple things one this is an arcade sponsor for anyone that's just
coming in now we're gonna get into some music and then do a full reset after the
music is is cute but for the time being this is an arcade sponsored space not
your usual TDA space although we do of course still as always support the TDA
and we're gonna have Cyrus come up shortly he's just you know listening I
guess because he's watching the game which fair enough dude lions are
trouncing and looking like they're gonna go to the Super Bowl and we've
also got Taylor Swift in the Super Bowl so god bless gonna be hilarious I think
we're all lions fans for the next few weeks not because of Taylor Swift
necessarily I like her but uh but let's go let's go lions I want to see them the
losers finally get their win yeah other than that we're gonna hop into things
we have a massive discussion tonight about NFT fine all all different types of
sources cross the board are we ready with the music English this is not
looking good and then give me two more seconds
I know it was a good one that we picked too but I'm just so unprepared it's I'm
having technical I'm having performance anxiety Eddie how that's okay all right
all right well you know we can do you know we can do we can start without the
music and you wanted to test if we do like a music intermission so maybe
maybe we'll we'll get that kicking let's just get the spaces started is it
just actually real curious is it like broken it's not broken dude like it's the
music's not going through the Spotify I'm sure there's like some button that I
didn't press that was right I went to like from Spotify to YouTube and now
I'm getting like the spinning wheel of death like things are just not good on
my end dude so like just save me save me the trouble dude all right I mean
you can sing for us if you want and no absolutely now what's up guys welcome
we are here on another Sunday a lovely Sunday as always we run this puppy every
Sunday 830 Eastern time p.m. not a.m. that would be crazy and tonight we've got
a big docket ahead of us all right we're talking about NFT phi generally and
and all of its incantations but this specifically is an arcade arcade dot xyz
sponsored space which if you want to go know where the actual best place to go
get loans on your NFTs it's actually arcade some of you guys might be like
oh what about blend if you want to get a loan on literally any NFT and not be
worried about like two or three wallets it's literally two or three wallets
dictating the dictating the terms of your loan and you want like clarity on
your loans and stuff like that and just actually really really good both terms
especially on pudgy penguins right now the liquidity and pudgy penguins is
excellent on arcade it's the place to go anyway I did see I think like a pie
chart by stats and so that was specific to to one lending platform cuz that was
blend it was blends okay yeah cuz it was like 40% or 60% or some crazy number
yeah two or three people controlled it all right so just generally speaking it's
the best place to get loans for your NFTs and I've used it I actually really
enjoy the platform I think it's great it's made by some killers and aces
across the board like it's been excellent for the better part of the
last what two three years been the leader in the space so to say that they're
excellent what they do is an understatement I'm a proud ambassador to
be working with them so yeah just overall very happy we'll get into that
more later on in the space for now that's you know that's the setting
that's the setup that's where we're at and again Detroit Lions I think now
hard charging so we'll see how things roll in that end welcome guys some
rules for the space just to set the set the groundwork as we as we go
through things here I like to kind of run this without hands I see you Nico we
don't I don't really like hands these spaces are meant to be like a okay well
just be careful don't cut your finger and I don't want to yeah I don't want you
distracted but it's the way that I like to run these spaces right just kind of
free-flowing I want organic and fun conversations and today talking about
loans talking about basically all things NFT phi because let's just be real
it's going to matter for all of the trading that goes on for the better part
of the next year and a half especially as these platforms become more and more
used more and more integrated into like many of the ways that we consider
trading you have wasabi now with Perpetuals which are really good and
really powerful you have flooring doing like actually moving serious serious
volume through their fractional ization right like that's that's a game-changer
compared to last cycle and actually I believe they now have apes and penguins
on Wu a centralized exchange which is crazy like eventually it's it's not too
far off to think that eventually we'll have fractional ized tokens of apes or
penguins or whatever that might be on something like Coinbase like that that
is not it's not that far out of the picture right so we've got massive
changes and how to expect trading for the cycle and all that said I'm just gonna
hop into things here so guys welcome and we'll talk things over to let me just say
something quick I got just a little funny anecdote here I got a ping in my
discord in a group chat says English down bad in spaces laugh out loud and I
responded in FR FR so all right that's my piece of humor for everybody I
continue nicely done English amazing
thing last time he's not a village idiot anywhere where to keep was that was
that just basis was that another that was another spaces wasn't it that was
in another space yeah that was my spaces that was my spaces with with good
things and and Patrick yeah that's the everything word will show so yeah I'm
consistent if nothing else and also told me about arcade I love it by the way I
started using it right after like well not right after but whatever that's how I
took the loan from the seal and I did a loan to my monkey and then I switched
everything back and just so I can move the monkey toward and those I mean been
using the quidium to hell yeah let's go see this one's saying by the way
there's all like a burgeoning number of users that are starting to use these
platforms that have previously never used it and I've started to hear it more
and more come into like the the general chatter of the space so I think like
these kinds of discussions are critically important so let's hop into things all
right I'm not gonna waste any time because I know that Cyrus is a busy man
we basically never get a chance to talk to him so dude what's up for anyone
that's in wombo you've known that I've been literally harassing this man for
the better part of the last two months begging for him to come to one
of my spaces we finally got him Cyrus man how you doing I'm doing all right man
it's good to hear a voice again it's good to get away from this TV and stop
watching my money light on fire do you put on the Niners I did unfortunately I
took the spread and the rest of my friends all took the line so it's
good good to get outside and get away from this from this clown show that's
going on on the TV excited to be here and talk about NFT finances something
that actually makes money I cannot believe you bet against Eminem that's
crazy yeah that's on me yeah new to football as you can see I just realized
we're literally gonna have the potentially the Eminem versus Taylor so
Super Bowl that's crazy that is yeah that's a good one I'm that is with
this one Wow that's a hell of a that's a hell of a game oh my yeah that's
gonna be a good one please don't schedule spaces during it please for your
own good yeah I will not I will not that way that would be so dumb anyway good
idea how you doing dude how's that so um so talk to me man what's on your mind
anything special uh you know I I tend to be pretty boring and just stick to the
same thing that's working I've been you know in NFT finance for the last
couple years basically just farming the APY farming the tokens and you know you
can if you pay attention to NFT finance you can kind of get a heads up on what's
going on in the in the NFT market at least for the blue chips at least which
is which is nice so I kind of just stick to what works I'm not like chasing
anything on ordinals chasing anything on Solana it's a little more boring but
that's usually what works I've never met anyone who's a master of no trades they
got rich it's better to be a master of one than to be a jack-of-all so yeah you
know nothing too crazy just just mostly NFT finance giving loans paying
attention to who's leveraged who's not sometimes every couple weeks you know
every every month or so you get one of these collections that gets over leveraged
and and people start panicking like pudgy penguins a couple days ago but I think
from what I checked in like a couple hours ago I think pudgy penguins are
and maybe all boring yeah let's back stuff for a sec because a bunch of people
do know you and they've seen you around but first off I like I don't want you to
do a crazy introduction yourself because basically everyone knows who you are
but but what I'm more curious about is like talk to me about how you view
things because we're not the reason why I really respect you in this space but
when I think about like you you're trading style I'm actually like I've not
I've referenced you as someone that doesn't do trades and someone that does
instead plays like I feel like when you when you approach I don't know a
decision you take extremely low risk positions like 95% of the time things
that you're basically effectively fully confident have a extreme high chance of
success and you do things like for example you made a crap ton of money on
sourcing gamers for for Dookie Dash right like things that most people are not
thinking about like most people think about okay I'm just gonna buy at X
price and sell at Y price but that's that's generally at least like on some
of your bigger wins not been the strategy so talk to me about like how you
consider the space what's your approach stuff like that because it's apparently
effective yeah so I mean I think it's interesting that you say low risk
because it depends who you know if I'm talking to my parents they think I'm
the most high-risk DGN of all time they think I need to pull my all my
money out of crypto and you know to get into real estate and all that but when
you when you talk to people in the space relative to them I am definitely more of
a low-risk guy I'm not the guy who's taking a 5% chance to hit like a 5x I'm
the guy who's taking like a 98% chance to hit like a 10 plus 1.2 X or something
like that so that's basically been the way that I've been doing things since
since basically the beginning you know how I got started in NFTs was just I
realized I got into Top Shot early on I realized that people were paying premiums
for lower serial numbers and I was like flipping little serial numbers and then
all of my friends who I met in Top Shot got into board apes and I was like oh
you guys are you guys are out of your mind I remember watching that mid board
apes and I was like you guys have lost your mind like Top Shot was fun that
mania was fun but now we're minting like these cartoon muggy like you guys have
fun and then eventually once they got to like 15 eighth and I couldn't afford one
I was like okay there's probably something here so I dove in and kind of
did the same thing that I was doing in Top Shot which was like flipping low
serial numbers but instead of like in if you if you haven't been on Top Shot
low serial numbers are basically the rares because all the cards are the
same but when I got to NFTs I was like okay there's rarity here too you can
people will pay premiums on on certain certain items so the spread the spread
isn't just the bit in the ask at the floor it's the bit at that bit in the
ask at specific traits so I jumped into first NFT ever bought was like a
derivative of a derivative of crypto punks McDonald's tiny head punks or
something like that and I had on my first three flips I had like success
buying like the a couple of the rares on on bid and selling at the ask which was
like a 35 like 40% spread like I bought one for I don't know like point five
east and sold for like point eight five or point nine and I was like oh my
goodness like and at the time he was like three or four thousand so you'd
end out at the at the time that was most of my Ethereum so I was like holy
shit like if you can do this a few times a day like and you're getting 30 to 40
percent a day that's gonna add up really really quick so so I kind of like took
that strategy and applied it to a few different collections like first lions and
then eventually when I could mutants and then eventually when I could board
apes so yeah my strategy has always been more low risk shorter term high
success rate smaller win percentage it's not like the sexy 100x play on on that
you see going viral on Twitter it's just like the sticking to what works over and
over and over and over again yeah that's exactly because I wanted to frame
things right I wanted to frame things for the listeners it's like how you
actually approach things cuz I think it's I think it's actually genuinely
vastly different from most because most people are like alright what can I do
that takes my money and two X's or three X's or 10 X's right like that's mostly a
lot of people are playing shitters right like shit coins and and we're talking
about crazy crazy multiples but when you look at things you're like I don't want
the 5% to do a 5x I want the 98% of a 1.2 X like that's so vastly different
approach but it's one that's worked out pretty well by the way two things one
we've got Brock Purdy bringing the 49ers within seven with a laser to
crazy that was holy I don't even have the game in front of me so that's good news
for me yeah today don't worry I know because I know a bunch of people here
kind of in the background right so that's crazy bring in the within seven if
you're like this I think next Sunday right and then separately guys if he
was want to do me a favor would very much appreciate bottom right purple
button likes retweets they go a long way you don't have to but I do really
appreciate it so bottom right likes retweets great and actually if anyone in
the crowd has a question for Cyrus you could throw it in the comments there and
if I get a chance I would I'll take a look through and see if I could ask
some sorry so I got a question here right with that in mind like I'm pretty
sure that a lot of people who are listening in don't just want like an
autobiography and they're like alright cool like how am I gonna make money in
the next one week right so I want you to tell me like you're looking at this
both the in terms of like the ecosystem right so you're looking at things like
wasabi arcade blend etc you have all these platforms that are doing
interesting stuff and beyond that you have the you know greater NFT market as
a whole so just from a general perspective what's your next like one to three
month outlook like like how are you approaching things how do you approach
things on a day-to-day right now and you're one of those guys that's like if
this is not the literal most high EV thing that you could be doing at any one
time you're probably not doing it so what are you doing yeah that's that's a
good question I would say basically like as things have changed a lot over the
last year and a half and in crypto and NFTs and and whatnot but one thing
that stayed the same is that NFT lending is the highest yield ethon eth you
know anywhere that you can find on chain like the risk reward for lending on on
NFTs in my opinion if you know what you're doing basically everything that I
did for my first year year and a half in NFTs was like being able to value
rares mid rares better than most people or you know anyone could and knowing
exactly what something is worth that gives you a pretty big edge in NFT
lending when I realized that I was like okay I should I should probably pivot
from lending I mean pretty bit from like trading one or two NFTs a day to like
deploying as much as I can into into lending against NFTs because you're
basically you're like it's like if you're familiar with the options market
in stocks it's like selling puts against you know selling puts against stocks but
selling puts against specific NFTs that you you know you feel like you know the
value of and some people are paying a higher premium than you feel they should
you know when I first found NFT lending it was like I don't know it was like April
of 2022 there was I don't know the numbers on how many users there was but
there was not a lot of users people were taking like a hundred percent APY loans
on apes for like so to put this in English or layman's terms like apes for
something like 80th and people were paying like a hundred percent APR to take like
30 to 40 each one month loans so basically as a lender you're betting like
the price of apes is not gonna drop by 50% in a month if it doesn't I earn a
hundred percent APR if it does then I'm forced to buy the ape for half the
prices that it is now which I'm totally fine with like it's never maybe it has
happened where apes have dropped by 50% in a month but it's not very very often
where that happens so yeah I mean I'm sticking to the same thing I'm fully
into NFT lending like I've grown a ton of relationships with borrowers most of
my lending is on like arcade where where people are looking to like borrow long
term and not just a blend is more like perpetual straining where you where
you're taking a position like a 10x leverage trade on on a penguin or
something like you pay one ease for a 15th penguin if it goes up you know if
it goes from 15 to 16 you made a hundred percent gain that's like that's
it's like perpetrating so I do some lending on blend too but I try to
stick to arcade and just or peer-to-peer whatever whatever it may be mostly
arcade and you know just deploy as much as I can into into loans where I feel the
risk reward is there and where I feel I can have a long-term relationship with the
borrower and I've seen tons of borrowers who win on their side well well I get
what I'm happy with on my side and you know yeah so it's kind of boring it's
it's it's it's actually not like it genuinely is not okay I like a lot of
people will think that it's boring but when it comes to things like the the
outsized impact it has in the market it's definitely not like for example
right you take a look at what happened with one pudgies over the past week you
had D gods back in I want to say summer of last year and of course Azuki in
summer last year and you had massive massive effectively dumps and I think
like also right now and Scotty could talk on this in a second but I think there's
right now like some concern over over potential liquidation spirals on the
blanking on Romelio right like there was massive outsized impact as a result of
these activities and some of it is like fairly predictable or some of that you
can kind of figure out that it's gonna happen beforehand I'm just curious like
when when it comes to gauging how these things actually interact on the
market on the whole what's your expectation and also separately just for
your own awareness what lions fumbled the 49ers picked up the ball and they're
driving and they're at the four yard line and they're running in at the
they're at the one they're at the one so they're one
you know I also wanted to say real quick Cyrus just like your your trading
strategy of just taking like super high conviction low-risk bets not targeting
like enormous returns and then also just being safe overall like to me that's like
a great strategy just because you're going against the herd in both of like in
both ways right like you're taking less risk and yeah so I just I love that
strategy I'd also like to point you in the direction of ordinals too because
lending is like brand new on there and there's a ton of inefficiencies in the
lending space there's really there's like one protocol for it it's called
liquidity m and if you look at like the loan-to-value ratios on some of these
projects they're like way out of control and for somebody like you who's familiar
with the lending space you'll be able to capitalize on that really well which I
actually was I was gonna get into it but I don't want to give them all the
else so I breaded me cuz like I will say Cyrus you are definitely missing
serious opportunity on the quitting if you're not touching it because it like
perspective it's amazing it's funny you bring that up because all my friends I
have a few friends who are like trade flipping node monkeys when they first came
out and then once they ran to like point two or whatever and they kind of
consolidated like point one eight and I looked at liquidium and I saw what the
rates were for like fifty percent fifty percent LTV and I was like node
monkeys kind of feels like something that's gonna stay around like I have
all these smart people with my ear who are like actually buying them and like
actually trade flipping them so I missed out on the whole fucking minting them and
point point oh three to fill you whatever they went to point three in a
week so I was like okay once they get a little pullback I'll sell some puts on
them all I'll give them some loans on them so I put some offers out on
liquidium and surely enough like I'm pretty sure the first time I heard
about liquidium was through one of your tweets Eddie and I was like okay there's
a lending platform on BTC like I had to check it out I checked it out and I saw
the offers and I was like wow there are not it is not as competitive as these so
I took whatever Bitcoin I had and I placed some loan offers on on node
monkeys like I in my head I was like I don't think these are gonna go to like
point wall they were at like point three and the best lending offers were
like point one one or something and I was like okay 66 to 70 percent drawdown I
don't think that happens in the next 14 to 30 days so you know and if it does
cool I'll get I'll get my first node monkey whatever I'll join the movement
so yeah I mean shout out to you for for purporting liquidity amount and they're
doing like points or whatever so I was like okay end of the day even if I end
up with a loss I'll get some points for for this first lending protocol I
don't know if it's the first lending protocol on BTC for it is for ordinals
yeah so yeah you know when things like that happen it feels like the risk is
worth it anytime the risk reward is worth it I'll toss the money behind it
I don't mind exactly see like this you know this is why I'm by the way just
will say out of respect to you wombo labs is like wombo labs and momentum are
my two only and favorite quote-unquote alpha groups in the space just killers
like actually some of the most intelligent people in there so props
props unlike creating that community but yeah dude I mean I wouldn't call it an
alpha group it's more of yeah I know I know permanently online like you know
jokesters on the internet freemen that that turned into something bigger than I
expected at times I regret it at times I don't yeah yeah it's a good it's a cool
place to be it's fun yeah so an alpha group I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm messing
with you so all right real quick I want to hop back to the question that I had
earlier and then I kind of want to open up the conversation make it a little bit
more like free flowing rather than just strictly an interview so you so I was
just asking basically looking at the market right like looking at some of
these nft5 protocols whether it's blend arcade wasabi etc etc I'm curious if you
feel like understanding that gives you in a sense a predictive ability right so for
example one of our friends Titan TYTA and when I think the pudgies were at
like seven based off the loan liquidity that he was seeing and both OTC and
just like what was present in terms of offers on chain he was like yeah these
are going past ten like these must these are basically guaranteed to be going
past ten I think he made that call at around six and they did because he was
just able to look at the loan liquidity and was like this is this is where the
money wants to get this too so I'm curious if you feel like just looking at
loan presents stuff like that you get some level of predictive ability of
what's going forward and how like how do you actually ascertain that I would
say I know Titan he's a really smart guy I would say a hundred percent paying
attention to to loan liquidity and and what's going on over there and where the
borrowers are positioned and where lenders are moving their money hundred
percent can give you an edge especially like a year ago when no one was
paying attention to it I you know the way I kind of think about where prices are
going is almost entirely based on where the lending liquidity is so a year and a
half ago I think it was when nobody was talking about NFT finance nobody even
knew that you could take loans on your NFTs that was when the apes and Ben Dow
had their first little crisis that kind of went viral on which by the way there
are there are founders of lending protocols that have messaged people being
like stop selling your apes my my wife is getting liquidated that was a funny
story but we don't have to get into that one yeah I just remember bringing it up
for the first time that there was a bunch of apes that are about to get
liquidated and you guys should watch out and I have like I had a post that
went more viral than I thought it would I had like people from from
Bloomberg and like New York Times messaging me like I was like oh man I
did not I was just trying to you know inform the people who who care and then
it just blew up and turned into this whole thing and apes went from like 65
to I don't even know what it was like 35 in July 2022 or something like that and
yeah that was when I first really dove into NFT finance because I was like this
is something that no one's paying attention to that has a massive effect
on the market like if there's like 150 to 200 apes like 2% of the supply
that's about to be for sellers this is probably something you want to pay
attention to as an as an ape holder so I sold all my apes and just well kind of
watched and then you know as a result of that rates kind of skyrocket because
Ben Dow at the time was was the number one lending platform in NFTs by far it
was really easy to come in and take a loan on your ape take a loan on whatever
you had and there was no no duration on the loan it was just like a perpetual
kind of like what blood blend is right now you take a loan at the time it was
like eight to ten percent APR and they had rewards in their own token so it
was like super cheap to borrow I don't know if you guys remember Franklin used
to used to borrow a lot that was so first in context like the way that I
found these things was just because I was trading apes a lot at the time so my job
basically is to watch all the sales all the listings all the transfers see when
people are getting ready to sell see when big holders are moving their wallet
their apes from cold wallets to hot wallets trying to you know in whatever
way I could get ahead of of the selling pressure the listing pressure or
you know the buying pressure whatever it may be so I saw all these transfers
coming from from Ben Dow and I was like what is Ben Dow so and I and I
took a look and I saw that there was like a hundred and fifty to two hundred
apes that were basically guaranteed to get liquidated over the after the other
side men they were like a hundred and fifty and you know every single time
you just had a mint that they rewards their ape holders that the ape itself
takes a big hit mutants other side ape coin whatever it may be they like the
trend has always been that that they take a dump after so they're at 150
there was a bunch of loans at like 80 or 90 East or whatever it was they were
gonna get liquidated the day after other side apes are like a hundred I start
looking at the recent transfers and I saw like you know half of them were from
Ben Dow people either paying off their loans or getting liquidated and I was
like what's Ben Dow so I took a look looked at the dune dashboards looked
at Ben Dow itself saw that there was like I don't know a hundred users on
the platform and and most of the selling those coming from apes was coming
from Ben Dow and I kind of realized that this was a bit of a problem so that was
when I wrote that first bit that was honestly the first time I heard about NFT
finance or anything like that and it blew up it turned in like to like a whole
thing the ape community kind of turned on me a little bit then because they're
like oh you're sweating our bags you're you know you just want to get a
lower entry and I was like I'm gonna make it a point tonight not buy a single
ape over the next until this whole thing clears out I'm not gonna buy a single ape
but what I did do was like okay I'm gonna now that rates have skyrocketed
and the number one NFT platform basically has lost all trust you know
rationally or not I'm gonna I'm gonna dive into this thing and I'm gonna put
into some money now now the premiums that people are paying to to get
insurance on their apes or to to get loans on their apes is worth it to me
because because because the biggest platform that was offering like you know
favorable terms to borrowers is now basically blown up you know now you look
at Ben Dow they're not their volumes are incredibly relatively you know they're
kind of shot down from where they were before so I was like okay I'm gonna put
some money into this and started you know focusing most of my time on NFT
finance and and from there I started to realize that like not a lot of people
there's you know thousand tens of thousands of NFT owners of blue chip
NFTs there's maybe a couple a few a couple hundred if that of people paying
attention to NFT finance and where the liquidity is going before you see it on
blur before you see it on OpenSea blur wasn't even launched back then actually
but before you see it on OpenSea and that is a huge huge edge back then if
there was platforms like wasabi and NFT purpose stuff like that you could have
just yeah if the liquidity was there you could have just the shorts were
there for you to see from from miles away but yeah I don't know if that
answers what you were asking does it does by the way separately guys does
my voice sound better I was told it was way too bassy I think I changed it
yes alright thanks Cody so alright let's do two quick things one gonna quick do a
reset of the space which again guys this is a space that is sponsored by arcade
and I actually had my god my phone just like broke for a second I'm trying to
find the at some talking points that I wanted to mention real quick on behalf
of arcade which if you guys aren't already following them again in my
opinion the actual best place to be taking loans both like providing liquidity
and taking liquidity especially right now if you were if you're working with
pudgies they have like really great opportunities for pudgies which isn't
always the case with with with blur as you saw in the past week like that was a
pretty ridiculous loan of like evacuation that happened on blur but so either way
it's the leading player player to player leading peer-to-peer NFT lending and
platform they have over a hundred seventy five million dollars volume it's
literally like I said the best place to unlock liquidity on rare NFTs top PFPs
like pudgies like I said toward apes and actually GenArt as well which is not
again on blur if you're looking at blend there's like nine and they're all
PFP collections if you want GenArt liquidity which is a very important
thing obviously as that's a lot of money and generally is locked up for
a substantial period of time if you want to unlock some of that liquidity
arcade is a hundred percent the best place to be doing it outside of that
over two and a half million dollars of interest has been earned by lenders and
on the arcade Dow is a decentralized protocol powered by arkd and
governed by the community so guys again like this is a serious platform that I'm
very proud to represent if you guys have any questions like feel free to ask or
regardless follow the account on top turn on notifications and just check it
out like hop to the protocol it's actually a really cool site to check out
also would recommend performing swaps there if you're gonna do a uniswap swap
they have a they have a router and I would do it there just saying anyway so
as I say that I want to kind of like open up into a wider conversation which
again guys thank you for tuning in we run this puppy every Sunday 8 30 p.m.
Eastern and would love if you guys tuned in more often but drop a like in
a retweet purple button on the bottom right I do appreciate it and let's just
happen like a more organic natural conversation we've got like what 12
people on stage and it's just been me and Cyrus so I've got questions but
she kind of hit me and guys you don't have to raise your hands you can just
kind of hop in but you're kind of starting us off cool yeah I mean I
guess when there comes the maybe big brain question but you know like I you
know I actually about secure secure transactions it's a law class that you
take I don't even know what year but usually not your first year of law school
and it's insecure transactions it has to do with it's like the law of borrowing and
lending and so yeah I just want to know like within a TFI you know being this
new thing and you know obviously it's still innovative how like how is it in
compliance with like the uniform as a uniform commercial code article 9 and
probably like digital understands what I'm talking about I don't even know he
may not know but secure transactions but yeah like how does it work you know like
what's with the law like lending regulation and anyone from arcade can
answer this or Cyrus yeah hey guys I feel like I don't want to speak for the team
on legal side I think Gabe or Castro would be better people for this one so
Gabriel Castro you want to take this go ahead yeah hey guys this is Gabe my
co-founders of so Gabe hey Eddie what's what's up man yeah so arcade is a D5
platform so first and foremost it's a protocol that's governed by Dow and at
no point does the team have any access the collateral or any of the money
movement so that kind of negates the need for us needing to be a money service
business or a money transmission or needing MTL as my transmission licenses
so we're pure defies permissionless it's an open source protocol regulations are
very gray and defy right now but we think we're going at it in sort of
the best way that defies gonna evolve and that's by being kind of a Dow
governed permissionless protocol and so a lot of those regulations in real life
when like lending and UCC and like perfecting liens and that sort of thing
doesn't really apply to defy as much that being said it is all gray and it's all
being you know we have a close tabs on what's happening on the regulatory front
but yeah this is defy so a lot of those regulations don't really apply well
now I'm gonna back up like they I would say that they do apply you just need
them to like recognize digital assets because like you said you mentioned it
all like all the key terms of you know like perfection when it comes to the
security interests you know with the collateral when you're lingering and
lending and borrowing you know that relationship I mean they just there's
nothing in the in the UCC you know Article 9 there's nothing about digital
assets yet so I think it most definitely does apply this just as a
unique you know like use case you know and the law has not caught up to
this I would definitely say it does apply I it applies where are you
incorporated by the way what I think the answer to your question is where is the
company incorporated oh well of course I mean cuz I know blurs like overseas
somewhere so I don't know where these guys blurs a British Virgin Islands
company by the way also Gabe don't know what you can and can't answer so baby I
don't want to get you and I'm not trying to get you in trouble I'm just asking
questions I'm trying to learn that's all that means he's trying to get you in
trouble the answer should be by virtue of the uniswap decision in the district
of New York code is law and unless you're incentivizing specific actions and
getting rewards for specific actions that encourage certain kind of conduct on a
platform then you're just code which is the proper response no that don't work
with this but okay it doesn't it absolutely does it literally is if you
create code in a platform and people interact in ways that you're not
incentivizing or for being benefited from then the platform is a platform and the
code is the code that's that is the goal okay well we'll see how that
continues to kind of play out like within the courts but it has no no I'm
not saying it's illegal I'm when I was asking like the code hasn't addressed
this kind of action with digital assets so that was my question was well how are
they you know like making like being hardly in compliance and you know
obviously digital set well it just depends on where they're located and so
I would agree with that no no no I do not think it it relies on a real
located what I'm saying is based on the uniswap decision that happened
recently that separated code versus incentivization obviously before that
and I'm sure the company's been around for a good six eight nine months you
would choose incorporation but the goal for people building essentially
autonomous code platforms is that as long as you're not benefiting profiting
or incentivizing certain activities that would otherwise be questionable within
jurisdictions that code is law generally at least from what the uniswap case seem
to imply seems to be the case but again not been fully determined so it's not
like applicable to all courts especially in the US so we'll have to see and
also we'll say don't want this to just be a legalese space that's why I went
first you know so I can bow out and return to the game okay but all right
oopsie I also saw that you had a muted for a second and kind of wanted to just
talk with you about what you were thinking and if you've got any
thoughts and questions for Cyrus hit me well I feel like we're in the middle of
something going on right now which is very topical and maybe worthwhile place
to aim the mental energy here and that's the unwinding and also if you if
you want to take a look at that by the way I don't know if you're by a
computer or not but if you want to take a look because I would actually like your
thoughts as well but go for it so we've got to we've got two wallets one with
about 310 Remilios and one with about 80 completely leveraged to the hillp on
blend like basically they've just continuously been borrowing and against
Remilios and buying more and that all started crashing about within the last 24
hours and I you know whatever insight can be provided into well what's going on
here what this guy's actual play is how this is likely to unfold I don't know
anything about it it's certainly a great real example of things that happen when
you have led NFT lending going on but we also like go ahead watching what he was
doing because we had a space with the Remilios about it cuz obviously they're
concerned about what this is gonna do to the floor price and like while we're
watching this dude like this dude like bought 50 more he's still he's still
buying though right now as a different guy that was a different guy that was
that was a that that's just people trying to seeing the falling prices of
opportunity wrongly and trying to catch falling night but the guy who's
leveraged completely to the hilt and managed to get just enough money like he's
still bidding and so he bid and he caught two more and then he borrowed
against those to buy another one right he's right on the edge half of these
loans are underwater he's you know and it's it's not entirely clear what his
what is a plan is if indeed there is one he's buying like like he's but like
he has 310 that are like like 304 that are about to expire and he's still
buying and they're all like every last one and he's still buying more and doing
the same thing so yes you know you know what then these Cyrus I'm curious
because you've watched these uki liquidation cycles obviously we're
talking about the Ben Dal liquidation whatever cascade like when when would
you know that it's over what would you look for I mean you can never really
know when it's over you can you can see when real lenders not farmers are
stepping in and trying to farm yield on the refinances on blur when they're
willing to take over loans at like 70 to 80 percent LTV usually like it hasn't
happened that many times but usually when they're willing to take over loans
at 70 to 80 percent APY at 50 to 100 percent sorry 70 to 80 percent LTV and
50 to 100 percent APR these terms are probably confusing 90 percent of the
people in here and I apologize for that but if you go to blend you can there's
two columns there's LTV and there's APY when people are taking over loans at the
at the terms that I just said usually in the four or five times that I've seen
these crises has happened that tends to be where the bottom is happening like
like mutants for example three three or four weeks ago had you know a hundred or
two hundred underwater loans that you know like you said someone was taking a
bunch of a farmer was taking a bunch of loans buying buying mutants and then
taking loans or they had more liquidity to farm more points on blur I don't know
I haven't kept up with the remedial situation and I'm actually not by a
computer right now so I can't check but uh I can take a look later usually if
it's if it's just a farmer who's picking up these these loans and their
loans are starting to go underwater they're going to sell they don't have
any long-term interest in the project they don't have any you know their main
goal is to farm points and to lose as little as possible before the season's
over so if you can identify the address and and know who it is doing all this
stuff it helps I have no idea on the rim Leo situation I'll be honest that's one
of the collections that I haven't really paid too much attention to but yeah I
mean that sounds interesting that sounds like I'll definitely take a look
when I get home tonight and and see what's going on there usually when when
when we're all because there's a difference between like a farming lender
someone who's just placing offers to farm blur points and someone who is
actually looking to put their eth out and land against collateral like they're
they're saying like Romeo's aren't going under 0.5 all I'll end point five
against them that 50% APR that's like a ridiculous APR fuck it I'll do it so
I don't know I mean I don't have the full picture right now but that those are my
thoughts just from hearing what you put out to me well if you doing it for point
farming like what does he think the points are gonna be worth because I
didn't you have to like I've looked at the whole list of the calculation but
he seems to be losing I don't know probably at least we think on each one
most clear farmers are anticipating that per point is roughly like three to
eight dollars in that range so my question would be is this guy buying like
is he market buying them or is he placing bids and getting them dumped on him no e
market bottom all the way up from about point six to about point nine and then
then now we've watched today we've watched the bid go from point nine
back to down to below point six and book and before he started market buying
he was never like buying them through bids he did the first ones he started
buying was market buying I mean I can't testify to that but it was definitely
mostly was he was a market buying and it all started about four months ago I
guess but yeah definitely he's yeah he might have picked up some through bids
but mostly he's been pushing he's been the one pushing the price up like he's
that's the thing it's he's a guy who's moved the price from point six to
point nine over the course of whatever period of time that's that's it's
been a very reflexive activity and now and now the wheels are coming off okay so
if it's someone who's just been buying them on leverage straight up this is like
yeah probably a case of like hyper degeneritis where they're like a bunch
of a bunch of ramellios I'm gonna buy them on 10x leverage and risk like 50
east to buy 500 east ramellios I mean a year ago the guy who the guy who
founded this this strategy was Franklin when he bought like 500 500 right on like
90% basically 10x leverage and with a market that's as illiquid as NFTs like
that's just not gonna end well for you unless like something something
fundamentally changed about the project where there's like a bunch of new
buyers coming in like yeah you bought 500 beans at point whatever point four and
now the price is point seven but where's the liquidity from point four was it
just you or was it like what's the exit plan like actually willing to buy these
things that the price we pushed them at or or was it just you who was willing to
buy them from where they were to where they are now so like I I don't know the
market will will humble you like some people come in and they're like yeah
I've seen a couple people where I look at their wallets and I'm like did these
guys have made like millions of dollars trading on DY DX or like decentralized
per platforms and they come in and they're like oh I can I can leverage
trade these NFTs I can I can push the price up to this and then you know the
bids will pile up at you know five percent away from from from the lowest
listing and I'll be able to dump them and it just does not work that way you
kind of learn the hard way it's really funny because the market is so it's
matured a little bit but but you know over the last year you've seen some some
crazy stuff go on in NFTs like like basically what this guy sounds like in
Remilios if he's just market buying them at high LTVs and high APRs like he was
probably a DJ and crypto trader who thought he could just just push
Remilios up and then you know get the farmers to move their bids up and then
dump on them in the past in the beginning when when Blur farming first
came out totally viable strategy it was like the most inefficient market we've
ever seen but now I think people have kind of learned a little more to pay
attention to what's going on and who's actually buying this thing I think
there's probably more to the story here because he could have as recently as
yesterday sold for a huge profit right like I mean there was a substantial bid
on Remilia that's actually and there was a huge bid available for him he could
have he hasn't but he hasn't instead he's done nothing but increase the position
and even now when he's right at the like edge of solvency if he scrapes up one
he buys another one and dicks out a loan on it he's definitely out there I mean
there there's a there's a sunk cost thing where you're like you know what
maybe maybe if I buy literally all of the dips it can only go up which I will
say with with blurb it's one of the concerns is like you can if you have
enough money you can basically pump the entire price of your own accord and then
all the bids will trace to the top and and you will then be able to just dump
a hundred percent of your position into the top bid and then let it let it fall
of its own accord which big wallets actually do and there's also a lot of
like a lot of trickery going on in the in the blur bid farming world which
a lot of bid for a lot of bidding is managed by bots at the moment so you
can actually like people that know what they're doing have been consistently and
I've actually been evict them once or twice of this have been consistently
tricking prices effectively to or tricking bids into going higher and
higher and higher until they're like all right cool and now I'm gonna dump it
heavily into your bid wall so like this is it does happen but you know
actually speaking on that Cyrus I do have a question what if anything has
been your biggest concern as a result of I guess like the emergence of NFT phi
as pertains the markets like what's what's your biggest concern I guess
damage wise or like what worries you biggest concern I think when blend first
came out I put out a thread about how it all works and what the risks are and
my biggest concern was like it's a great product until it's not you know and
I think that's the way it's intended to work it's more intended to work like a
like a perps platform where DJs can come in and everyone can come express
their level of risk on the risk curve at any given moment which I think is
great like if you want to come in and take a super high-risk play and and buy
something at 95% LTV and and you know pay a thousand percent APY why not like
you should have that option too but when things go wrong it's going to be more
drastic than when this option wasn't there the declines are gonna be more
drastic than they were before with this product available because you
introduce more for sellers that's just you know that's just a matter of fact I
guess so that was my biggest concern from the start with blend was like
people are gonna come in they're not they're these are people who are like
sitting in their parents basement like never you know perpetrated or never had
any lending experience don't know what APY means don't know what LTV means like
they're gonna come in and oh I can buy a pudgy penguin for point five beef when
the price is 15 eighth if it goes up to 15.5 I made a hundred percent like you
saw a good amount of that this week with this with this drawdown I think
pudgies will be fine but but that's just an example of you know blur was a
platform that tens of thousands of people were using before was it before it
had lending as an option and then they did introduce lending as an option made it
one of their their forefront features made it one of the only ways you can
earn points so people who had you know from from my understanding from just
watching their wallet they really did not have that much of an understanding of
how lending and borrowing works came in you know bought on leverage like this
maybe like this from Emilio guy maybe like you know the dozens of either
degen players or on experienced farmers who came in and bought on leverage and
then they're borrowing at 0% and then all of a sudden a week later they're
borrowing at you know 200% now I can't afford to keep this loan anymore I have
to dump it onto the market that was my biggest concern because this stuff is a
lot more complicated I mean it's not super complicated but for the average the
average user it's not like spend X dollars look for Y dollars yeah exactly
exactly yeah it's a little more you got to do a little more research and
understand the risk a little bit more than then what's shown on the front end
I guess I don't know but I think at the same time I'm like people should be able
to come in and express their their desirability of risk like I don't know
it's a it's a fine line between like you're being way too degenerate and like
go ahead take take this gamble fair like you want to take this risk war go ahead I
don't know people should be allowed to do what they did they want to do but you
got to be aware of of the landscape and and what the implications are of people
expressing that level of risk which is great because you can you can just log
on and look at what people are doing and you know you can get a good feel
for the landscape of the lending market and you know just learn from there that's
why it's it's great that there's all this stuff is transparent and open so my
biggest concern will be like people who are inexperienced with lending and
borrowing don't fully understand what what they are buying into taking these
positions and then eventually being like oh I can't afford this and dumping onto
the market the last like five liquidity crisis that we had we're basically from
that outside of like this new landscape we have over the last month where it's
like two lenders who can decide when the market crashes which I guess would be
the second point of what concerns me is like there's two lenders quote-unquote
lenders they're not here to lend they're here to they're not here to
lend and earn ETH on their farming exactly they're they're they're putting
out ETH and their yield is blur points so which is much much different from
someone like myself who's like I'm putting out ETH because I want to earn
ETH on ETH yield I'm not putting out ETH because I want to learn blur on ETH yield
yeah that's like a cherry on top when I'm lending but like it there's like
this whole new landscape where 50 to 60 percent of the lending volume on blur
is is two people who are which is super dangerous because they can just pull
their their offers at any time and 50% of the borrows on on blend all of a sudden
have to repay their loans in the next 24 hours which in this space you know like
if someone borrows 10 ETH against their pudgy penguin they probably did not just
hold that 10 ETH they probably went and like degenned into Solana shitcoins or
they they you know bought the new mint or whatever they threw it at something
they didn't just hold it there they didn't take that 0% APY loan to just
leave it in their wallet so apparently the Niners are up 10 so that's good news
yeah the other Domino yeah let's go dude oh man I should have been on the space
from the start we've been up 20 but my biggest concern bottom line is like
people don't fully under like they think they can come in take a 0% APY loan and
that loan stay there that is not how this game works like people need to I
feel like when you log into blur before you take a blend loan they need to like
play a video like a five-minute video of like here's exactly how all this can
work here's examples of how this has consistently gone wrong for borrowers
and forced them to sell if you're okay with that yeah press accept and take
this loan for 0% APY like I don't know like it's you know your audience is
probably more experienced in this stuff than than the average user but for most
people who are using blend I have seen some absolute horror stories of like
people putting their forever PFP 0% APY yeah why wouldn't I like the most I
have this 30th 8th why would I not take a 23th loan on this 8th now the most I
could ever lose on it is 7th you know I don't know yeah those that that's my
biggest concern those are my my two three biggest concerns on on lending and
and all that stuff it mostly stems from from blend I guess yeah yeah it sounds
like a lot of consumer protection you know is needed kind of reminds me of the
whole thing with Robin Hood and the issue that they had with that on the
kid to commit a suicide cuz he didn't understand what he was doing so
hopefully that's something that will change but yeah I just wanted to say
for Jeff to speak but Eddie you can like lead that in will and again will know
being very tentatively careful about this becoming a legalese space but here I'll
talk quickly to Jeff and Cyrus I don't know how much more how much longer you
have the like I'm very first off again thank you for coming out like this is
extremely rare basically never get a chance to talk to you Cyrus so I'm not
you're so glad I got to talk to you Cyrus it's a pleasure dude yeah shut up
I've been asking for this guy to come on my space for like two three months
alright I'm actually excited about this mr. gamer nerd anyway I'm gonna say
some shit but I'll be quiet fair enough but yeah dynamic between you two shifts
depending on which space first is actually running it right yeah tends to
yeah yeah so Jeff go for it yeah real very short introduction on myself to
anybody that doesn't know me I am the gen web 3 attorney now but I spent a past
life actually in secured lending so I actually have the answer to some of the
legal discussions that were going on earlier and I'll leave it as basically a
tease that anybody who's interested in how the commercial code deals with digital
assets and digital goods go look up article 11 of the UCC which is actually a
new proposed article that is going to change the definition of a lot of things
and what it means to actually execute a contract and what a digital good is and
what control over that digital good actually is and it's things like you
know multi-sig wallets and what is control look like when you do
something like that and it's really really interesting stuff it's not perfect
actually spoken to stand through that the work closer but not close enough in
a lot of ways so I without getting too far into the legal stuff I will say
that if anybody is interested go look up UCC article 11 because it is out
there and there are people trying to work this out Jeff I actually will event
like maybe not this week because I'm busy as hell this week and I've got a
lot of property work to do but but I actually will I will actually check that
out and there's a reason why I'm in law school right now and it's such that we
can you know hopefully I can help figure that out eventually just definitely not
today like just to be clear I have no legal capability I'm a 1l I'm basically a
child when it comes to law so don't don't take anything that I say for grit
or with any like take it with the biggest grain of salt that you could
find well you're we're not allowed to take anything you have to say as legal
advice exactly exactly get there exactly and I'm gonna say I can't wait for you to
get into secure transactions whatever that happens you know hit up the the legal
chat because that should be interesting to hear your thoughts on what you learn
in that class yeah we have a couple we have a cabal chat it's great but
anyway yeah I won't I won't Jonah I will not bother you
with that chat don't worry also guys just a reminder one this is again a
sponsored space with arcade arcade is again the literal best peer-to-peer
platform for lending as far as I've seen and it's just not close like it's
actually really good and some like some things I just wanted to bring up real
quick oh my god I keep losing it's like DMS on Twitter are among the hardest
thing to work with some points I wanted to point out one it is again the
leading p2p NFT landing platform to over 175 million dollars of volume like
one of the things so I was talking with some developers recently and one of the
concerns was like okay when you're talking about these platforms or
building a platform generally one of the biggest concerns is like is it safe
with the money that you put into it and a lot of times especially with
solidity it's almost impossible to know until you've actually moved some
significant money through it and you have a hundred seventy five million
dollars that's gone through this platform plus like it's battle-tested so
it's really it is genuinely good I'm not just I wouldn't be talking about them if
they weren't amazing best place to unlock liquidity on rare NFTs by the
way so like outside we were talking just blend second ago yes blend has
liquidity on things like pudgies and bait board apes or whatever but
especially if you're looking at something like rare art there's nothing like
there are no other options and when you're talking about the best option
is arcade like it is genuinely amazing for that I've seen massive massive loans
go through I think I think it was on arcade that there is a million dollar
loan what was it on hold on what was it I'm actually curious what was the biggest
loan that you guys have seen go through I paid we we saw a bundle of two
zombie punk crypto punk NFT loans I think at the time the price it was like
four and a half million dollar loan Christ are you serious yeah in fact the the
borrower ended up defaulting well he didn't actually he didn't default he
ended up selling the loan note so he sold his borrower note to a buyer that
wanted to buy the crypt the zombie crypto punks and then that that buyer
paid off the loan and got the crypto punks my god that's actually absurd and
outside of that of course there's a bit over two and a half million dollars of
interest earned by lenders and arcade Dow is a decentralized protocol powered by
arkd and governed by the community so again if you guys aren't following arcade
which is co-host in this space make sure that you do so you turn on
notifications it's like genuinely one of my favorite platforms that exists in
all of crypto I major respect for them and their team and I'm glad to represent
them as an ambassador so with that in mind I want to toss back to Cyrus like
just cuz I'm curious where which collections have you found the most fun
with honestly it changes with that but from the start it was definitely pudgies
pudgies has been the collection I've been highest on for like over a year
now so I was just trying to be like I was trying to take all the pudgy loans that
I could get as soon as I got on the platform but I would say all the all the
all the blue chips all the ones that have proved that they're not like super
volatile I try to stay away from the new collections because part of the
formula of lending is knowing how volatile a collection is and when the
collections only been out for like a couple months you don't really have a
feel for how you know how much volatility they'll get like just to give you a
clear picture like collections like crypto punks the ones that have proven their
level of volatility the most and they've been around for what like four or five
years now those guys can come in and get the floor of crypto punks is I haven't
checked in a while but something like 60th now you could come in and easily
get a 50th loan at like 10 to 15 percent APR which is you know to 99.9 percent of
the world is absolutely ridiculous like you can come in and the average the
average mortgage nowadays in America is like seven to eight percent so you can
come in and get basically the same LTV as a mortgage on your house obviously
shorter duration but yeah like as long as the collateral has proved that it's
not too volatile it's proved that it has staying power it's proved that it's not
like just a fad I'm willing to lend on it so short answer would be like pudgy
penguins I love lending on apes because I just I feel like I have a good good
grasp on apes and where they are in one to two month periods captains I like
captains stuff like that it's never like I said it's never the sexiest option it's
no I like to stick to the boring stuff that people aren't like focusing all
their energy on so that's where I'm at with it I'm sure Fluke is curious you
touch punks at all or you ever consider punks yeah yeah definitely uh I would
say a few months ago and when things were less volatile and people were taking
lower so so the thing is when when things go parabolic like they have the
last three three months in you know all coins Solana various NFTs people lenders
are less willing to lend their money at lower rates so back then like three or
four months ago lenders were just trying to funnel their money into whatever they
could it whatever low risk will like anything they could they were just trying
to deploy all their lending capital so punks were getting loans at like eight
to ten percent APR so yeah I was at the time I was doing that but now over the
last three months with everything going crazy there's less lenders willing to give
those rates so if you're a punk like I don't really have that much interest
lending against a punk unless it's like 20% sold so the APR is basically
doubled because there's more the rates change the rates are always it's like a
a function of volatility in the market a function of all opportunity in the
market it's constantly changing there's no like perfect formula but a few months
ago I was trying to funnel as much as I could into you know ten to fifteen
percent APR low risk punk punk rates for sure they're like probably the best
collateral that you can get out there for sure yeah that's interesting so that
I think my main point was now that we see the official like punk seven to one
rapper coming out that's going to allow a lot more I guess NFT fire to flow
through that collection oh yeah I was just curious how that would would
affect punks and now that there is more I guess availability at the top end
of lending what does that look like to some of those like don't call them
meaty like collections but second round we'll call them like the Azuki and the
hot juice and things like that yeah I would say the main thing with the 721
thing is it just makes it easier and more trustable for people to rap in a way
wrap their punks because before even I've never wrapped a punk I don't know
what that process is like like the first time I wrap a punk I'm gonna be
scared I'm so scared of thinking about it you know I think with this official
you get stamped like OX quit is the one who developed it like fully trusted
there's probably a guide somewhere of exactly how to do it people are gonna be
more comfortable you know I don't know what if it's called wrapping their punk
now or whatever it's called turning them green background they're gonna be more
comfortable doing it so once you do that most lending platforms or you know
arcade arcade will be able to support you know lending against those tokens so
you know maybe more people will lend or sorry borrow against their their punks in
a more comfortable manner because I think one of the main from talking to
people who have own punks and we're thinking about borrowing a lot of them
were just like worried about wrapping it or keeping it at a wrapping in a wrap
state because it's that friction point right it's just too upset you just
really bad experience I've heard through the contract a hundred percent yeah
hundred percent which by the way there are serious punk holders which so what a
lot of people don't realize is some people use lending for tax advantage
activities right so there are lenders or there are punk holders I should say
like there's one guy I think he has like 80 punks or something like that that
he minted out entirely but there's like punks OTC who just yes like it's a
constantly trading them there's guys like Tony Herrera who minted like a couple of
hundred punks he's sitting on a lot right and one of the things they do fluke is
is they just they take you know let's say they have a hundred punks they
will never sell them or at least they really strongly do not want to sell them
oh wow that was crazy the the Lions almost got the onside kick that they
needed looks like the 49ers are gonna get this dub god bless so there there so
there are there are punk holders that have like dozens if not almost like a
hundred punks or so that have never sold and have not taken any profit there
and they don't want to deal with the tax implications that deal with that as
well and they also just want to hold their punks but they've taken literally
tens of millions of dollars worth of volume on their on their punks and has
given them like unbelievable access of liquidity right and you're looking I
mean just look at the top right you have literally um I think this was like
in the last hour this happened there was a rollover where where one of the
Fidenza's had a hundred and eighty-eighth loan with this like it's 180 okay so
it's a principle of 180 30 day duration 22% APR that's pretty high and that means
that the the the lender is gonna make three ETH in 30 days otherwise they they
get a Fidenza for 180 ETH which I think those sell for like 250 ETH that's a
pretty good deal I think lending in the high-end art market side it's gonna be
absolutely ridiculous that might be where we see that just the biggest driver of
liquidity right it's just this shadowy people that trade high-end art yeah I mean I would say if
you believe that there is going to be high-end art in the end of like that's
going to exist digitally through NFTs then it's basically inevitable that the
lending market is gonna grow because if you look at the traditional art
market this is kind of like a little known fact from the people that I bring it
up to is like there's a decabillion dollar lending market against physical
art that art collectors use that's kind of gate-kept and hard to see like the
only people who are really paying attention is like JP Morgan and City
Bank and those guys like they're lending against you put your art up as
collateral and they'll give you a loan at like 10 to 15 percent something like
that so if you believe that art is going to exist and continue to grow via
NFTs it's basically inevitable that it's gonna grow you know the lending the NFT
lending market is going to grow there's like a huge market market for I mean I
wouldn't say huge but there's but there's a big big market for like the
true collectors who don't want to sell their stuff but they want to tap
liquidity like Eddie was saying there's a few punk holders there's a punk
holder who's literally the biggest NFT borrower of all time who minted like
150 punks basically like never sold any of them except for 10 of them or
something like that if you think about someone in his position if he's living in
America if he sells a punk at the floor for 60 eth he's got a 20% long-term tax
on that so like he technically ends up with something like 46 40 80th right he
can borrow 50 eth against that punk right now in an instant you can get more than
what then what he ends up with by selling at a 10% 10 to 15 percent APR
like to those people NFT lending absolutely makes a ton of sense I know
it's like a small niche but if you think NFT art and and that stuff is gonna
grow then it's going to be applicable to a lot of a lot more people and a lot
more people who you know I guess to have a lot of money I don't know like
yeah a lot a lot more large collectors so yeah I mean especially also as RWAs
start to get more used right you talk about like people that Larry Fink was
talking about this the tokenization of basically everything people start
tokenizing their houses it's you know foreseeable that eventually these loans
and access to global liquidity starts getting utilized on these decentralized
platforms like makes sense a lot of buzzwords but makes sense anyway keep
things rolling and also Cyrus I'm gonna ask you in a sec about soul so just keep
that in your mind but in the meantime Honto and also guys you don't have to
raise your hands Honto you should know this rule it's going yo so that's kind of
sad because I was actually gonna ask here something but we have a rule I know
it's Eddie space but it's about lending so what what are you doing I'm gonna slap
you so serious like how do you manage your order books and collections that are
allowed this is your hour because not gonna say it Jonah hold on Jonah can
you hear Honto he's in the listeners he's talking I didn't get the firmware
update my bad okay so how do you how do you guys manage your order books and
kind of enjoy your he's gone we took care of him okay serious how do you guys
manage order books and kind of generate demand for both sides but also manage
expectations on some of the collections that you have because when I used some
of the platforms on soul there was a period of time when everybody was
defaulting on purpose and they were kind of using it as a leveraged bet on the way
down so look cheer yeah I mean that that's a great question I would say one
of the benefits of NFT lending for borrowers is they could they can
basically use it as insurance so if I have a a tiny whatever NFT and I take
80th loan on it if it falls to 7th and I took an 80th loan on it I get my 80th I
only lose two weeks on the on the NFT and that extra one if I basically say
because I took this insurance I paid the premium to take this loan which is
kind of it's alone but it's acting as insurance at the same time so yeah to
that point yeah some people definitely use this as insurance like you're
saying on Solana things are way more volatile I've kind of explored explored
on there and you get way more defaults on there at least a few months ago you did
I'm not sure about now in terms of managing your order book there are
maybe you know there's not a lot of big lenders who are actually looking to earn
Ethan ethy old on NFTs right now so you know I get I can speak for myself I
don't know about the others but for me I spend two to three hours a day I wake up
and I check check the books I check what new loans have been taken I check the
level of leverage on every collection I check the you know the new listings on
NFTs I I'm looking through the same way I look through every listing and sale on
NFTs when I was when I was starting to trade NFTs I looked through every
listing and and pushed through loan or I guess originated loan on on NFTs there's
a platform called snow Genesis which I would 100% recommend to everyone
listening like you can keep track of those guys are sick oh yeah my buddy
Chris launched that a few months ago I kind of gave him a hand on what to
include what what data to include like what's useful for lenders what's useful
borrowers super nice guy really really smart knowledgeable guy he built this
platform where which was really needed for like the small niche of people who
were lending and borrowing that keeps track of every loan that's originated on
aetherium every every bond like default repayment whatever I wake up and I check
every single new line item on that on that platform every day and there's like
a couple two two to three hundred every single day are you serious what are you
looking for yeah what's the alpha the alpha is to filter out the blend loans
because unless there's like a liquidation event going on this is
probably gonna cost me cost me a couple a couple no one no one no one people you
know it's whatever it happens it is but yeah I guess the alpha would be to like
filter out blend because 90% of those are gonna be like 0% the two guys who are
farming all the points on blur you're not gonna gain anything anything from
seeing all the 0% API originated loans on there filter out the blend loans look
at every other platform and see what loans are going through a couple things
you can figure out you can look through the loans and be like wow I would have
lent on erect guy at 0.4 ETH and earned like a hundred percent APR I don't know
like whatever it is like 50 to 60 percent APR at that level of risk for 30
days a hundred percent I would have done that now I'm gonna go and place
some offers so that the next guy who comes in is gonna take my offer
another thing would be like oh there's a bunch of people defaulting on
Ramillio's I should probably take a look at the loan book on Ramillio's
and make sure you know if I'm gonna lend on Ramillio's make sure there's nothing
crazy going on make sure like UUBZ was saying like there's no guy who's bought
like 400 on leverage or something like that it really really really gives you
especially in this market where a higher percentage of people are on
leverage versus a few years ago and not that many people were using NFT
finance because a higher percentage of people in the NFT market who are active
participants are on leverage it really pays off to know to have a nice like
grasp on that entire landscape like what that's like who's in trouble what
collections are organically getting buys not on leverage like you know after a
while you learn what's healthy what's not so yeah that's basically how I
manage my loan book if I see a collection that's starting to look ugly
in my eyes like I'll stop giving loans on them I'll call my loans on blur I'll
you know try try to stay away I guess yeah yeah after a while you kind of get
a hang of of when things are gonna get ugly I think the biggest learning
lesson for me was was when Azuki gate happened and I'm sorry about that that
yeah yeah you know it was a great expensive learning lesson but when
there's big events when there's like an airdrop happening when there's like a lot
of speculation going on typically you want to stay away because that just
introduces volatility and it's just not worth the risk so yeah I mean I it's
just like saying on top of what's going on with with the landscape of
lending with the landscape of like the NFT market itself if you're actually
lending like it like I don't know how to put this but like a decent amount of
capital you kind of have to treat it like a serious venture and stay on top
of the data that comes in and act on that data I guess interesting yeah yeah
I mean like I guess my general question is I mean like I've got plenty of other
questions it's more just like I want to know how you feel about things generally
right now and you know I asked a bunch about like what what had you the most
concerned but I guess and also guys feel free to chime in I'd love to hear
from others as well but what are you most more excited about I guess in
terms of like what to watch with the market mechanics and stuff like that
like looking at things like wasabi is now wasabi is working with a blanking floor
protocol and you have you have pudgies and board apes on a centralized
exchange wasabi has stuff that's cooking with arcade like I guess what do you
what what new what novel mechanisms do you think are worth actually checking out
and probably putting some time into yeah I would say it's funny you brought up
wasabi because I was gonna be my answer was a wasabi like the options protocols
that are popping up I know wasabi is working with arcade so when you buy an
option like this is getting kind of in-depth now and I would assume that
most people this is over most people's heads but like they want to hear it yeah
I mean like when you buy an option on wasabi as far as I know one of the
ways that that gets put through is like a lender has an offer open I've
done this plenty of times like what I have an offer open for 3 ETH on captains
someone wants to buy a 5 ETH call option on captains and the floor price is 4 so
they'll essentially pay 1 ETH to buy this tall option if it goes up to 5 ETH
they're a strike price they'll make you know they'll make 100% I don't want to
go too in-depth to it on it because it's a little boring and over most people's
heads but that's some of the innovation that's like a year ago I would never
even thought of I like the the how do I say it I just like that people are able
to express their their level where they are on the risk curve I think everyone
should be able to express their level of risk on the risk curve openly and
freely that's like part of what all of this is it's a little bit cuz you
don't like but it's also like if you do it the right way you can be calculated
about it and you were just describing selling covered calls right basically I
mean basically what you're doing is a lender is selling puts right like if I
if I if I give a 20 ETH loan on a board a from the board a four is 25 I'm
selling a put well yeah as a lender but the thing you were it sounded like
you were just describing selling covered calls right like it yeah you can you can
also like you do kept what are called cash-secured puts in in regular finance
right and which is effectively what you're doing when you're when you loan
out against an asset that you're willing to buy exactly yeah exactly it
basically works like that so in my eyes like the NFT market is maturing in
some cases it may seem like these things are pushing prices down and and
unhealthy and whatever with with some of the way that some of the ways that blend
has structured it I get it totally get it but I think long term when these
incentives and stuff are gone and people are actually taking these positions
because they feel there's a chance that things are gonna gonna go down they
feels there's a chance that a project that they don't have access to in terms of
buying a whole unit of it is going to go up but they want to you know long it in
some way I think we have come a long way over the last year or two from what I
have seen I actually don't think there's any debate about that but yeah I
mean that's what I'm most excited about the teams like arcade wasabi NFT perp
like those guys are all in the trenches grinding you know doing a really good job
everyone I've talked to snow Genesis like it's just exciting seeing what these
guys come up with like a year ago I would have never thought about any of
these per protocols or anything like that so it's exciting to think about like a
year from now what are the new things they're gonna think about well well
actually I'm glad because finally got a chance to talk to Ilmaw because I
wanted to ask you are you looking at any other chains like are you looking at
Seoul particularly and Ilmaw if you have any questions Ilmaw for anyone that
doesn't know is building tensor right like literally demolishing on Solana and
doing amazing work what probably my favorite marketplace just period to use
like I use blur a lot and I put a lot of effort into blur but tensor is my
single favorite market experience that I've had I think they crush it so yeah
ship it bro yeah are you are you taking a look at any of the other chains
or anything like that yeah they're like like I said earlier the liquidium on
Bitcoin there's a couple protocols on Solana sharkify I'm blanking on the
other ones but there's a couple wolf capital or something like that they're an
aggregate yeah exactly yeah Solana I figured you know if I have a decent
feel for how it works on ETH and maybe you know I took a look on Bitcoin took a
look on on Solana realized that this is kind of feels like what Ethereum was a
year and a half ago with like not many lenders the rates that you're getting as
a lender feel disproportional to the risk that you're actually taking so
yeah definitely definitely have messed around with with some of those
protocols and I think like if there's the bottom line is like if there's going
to be NFTs that that have value long term on those chains then lending is
going to be a thing on those things like a lot of the things that hold value over
a long period of time you're able to borrow against them with like in the
real world whether that's watches whether that's our cars houses whatever
like you know it's just the nature of of things holding value in the real
world I guess you guys just launched like a pretty significant we'll call it
NFT five centric addition to tensor right like what are you guys up to and nice to
see you man yeah nice to see you I don't know if I can step into the shoes that
you'll left for me with all those introductions but good to be here guys
yeah it's just funny how you were talking about wasabi because we just ship like
various more product we're calling it price lock it's sort of a little bit of
many different things but definitely has like elements of lending and
options I guess the main thing we tried doing there was simplifying it a lot so
that it's a lot easier to think about so we sort of removed the dimensions of
calculating the premium and calculating duration so those are fixed and the or
the only dimension that the funder and the taker think about are the price
which is basically the strike price and yeah that's done really well in the
first week to be honest we have like 5 million off volume in the first week and
over 6 million of liquidity sitting there right now
it's like a pretty new product so I guess we'll have to see