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NFTs in SEC's gunsights ? BRICS to adopt $BTC? DC Roundtable #53
Recorded: Sept. 15, 2023 Duration: 1:29:30Space Recording
Full Transcription
They're actually Tai quote.
Even though it sucks that the artist can't get that minting fee, I think this might be, you know, I'm just giving options out here that basically what I'm saying is this industry is not going to die.
Pandora's box is open.
The cat's out of the box.
This industry is very interesting.
People love NFTs.
Having digital ownership is valuable for not just art, but property deeds and authentication of physical goods.
I mean, the possibilities for it are truly endless.
You can't even have like securities as NFTs or as tokens.
So, like, I think people will find workarounds if they want access to the U.S. markets, if they don't want access to the U.S. markets and they want it, they would rather just target global markets.
I mean, I think what will probably happen is we'll have this kind of bifurcated system where you'll have like your global markets and you'll have your U.S. enabled markets.
So, you know, you'll have like Coinbase and BlackRock who will give you like your kind of kosher Bitcoin, your U.S. kosher Bitcoin.
And you'll have, you know, you might have even people were building for a long time and I'm sure still are building chains which have like a KYC for like so you could have you can prove you're an accredited investor and things.
So, you might end up having a bifurcated system where there's like the worlds that can interact that the U.S. approves and you'll have them in the global world.
And, you know, maybe things like USDC becomes a bank someday and that becomes part of the U.S. kind of kosher world.
And then you'll have other stable coins which are outside of the U.S., which are not marketed to the U.S., which maybe even have to geoblock the U.S.
that I think will have a lot larger market caps anyways over time.
But I think that's probably what's going to happen.
I just I just think it's like the world wants this.
And by the way, I'll even go out so far as to say the world wants actually securities with less regulation.
And the world wants securities that can be traded globally, not on just the stock market, you know, Eastern Standard Time, you know, whatever it is, 8 or 9 or I think 9 a.m. PST or so 6 a.m. EST to like 1 or whatever.
People don't like that.
People want global markets.
They want markets that can trade all the time and they want they want easier access to these markets.
They want, you know, a small business should be able to launch a token, I believe.
And I'm not saying like I'm not saying this is not a security or anything like that.
But I think people do want a situation where the smallest business in the world could launch a token to fund their business growth.
And should that be an equity?
Maybe.
But I think the world doesn't give a shit about the U.S.'s equity laws.
I think they're they're archaic and they've done more harm than good.
And I think people will just people will bypass them in other countries.
Because why should they play the U.S.'s game?
Why should someone in another country who's trying to raise funding have to care about the laws in the United States?
It's it's ridiculous.
Japan has been, for example, notoriously late with with everything related to crypto and regulations and everything like that.
But just last week they there were rumors and that that that that came from from from from there that said that they are looking into allowing companies doing just that.
Like tokenizing their releasing tokens to fund companies now how how it will work.
It's not not not very clear at the moment, but it's a rumor that what which places Japan above
the USA in regards to this because, well, the SEC is trying to regulate by by by by punishing and and restricting.
Japan is trying to do it by regulating and allowing to exist by within regulations.
So it's it's it's it's it's interesting because, as I said, Japan has been notoriously late with these things.
They have haven't really taken any major steps in regulating cryptocurrencies or or NFTs or anything crypto block chain related.
And this is like a major step in that direction that they're taking, which is very interesting to see,
especially when it's come when it comes when the SEC is is going after NFT projects or declaring everything that's on Coinbase as security or something like that.
It's it's it's they're they're they're pushing the the agenda a little bit further.
Well, the cool thing about all of this is that it to me, it really emulates what we see with countries like Hong Kong, Singapore, UAE, Dubai,
you know, Isle of Man, places like this where, like, for example, Singapore, if anyone of you have been to Singapore,
maybe some of you were there for token 2049. But Singapore is a great country.
And what's very interesting about it is that only like 60 to 100 years ago, it was a fishing village, like a legitimate just fishing village.
And because they opened up their country to use other currencies, not just their own, the US dollar.
And they opened the country up to using English.
These are, you know, these are kind of the currency and the language of business in the world.
They opened these things up. They had minimal taxes and they had, you know, great regulations for businesses and basically said,
hey, we're not going to try to attack you if you build businesses here.
We're going to try to help you succeed. And, you know, you saw this in Singapore and in, you know, 60 years,
it's become one of the most highest, you know, per capita, like wealth, I guess.
And it's like one of the most technologically advanced cities.
It's an incredible hub of, you know, business and finance and commerce in the world.
Same thing happened with Hong Kong for until until China kind of got their grip back on Hong Kong.
And now it's been kind of deteriorating a bit. But what we see is when you get government out of the way, like Dubai, another example.
Also, that one's kind of skewed a bit because it was funded a lot by oil.
But but, you know, they're really trying to shift because they know the oil money won't last forever.
So they're trying to shift to like business and tech friendly.
You see El Salvador doing this now with no tax on tech companies that come there and no tax, no capital gains on Bitcoin.
And now they're, you know, their crime is down 99 percent.
Their tourism is up hundreds, thousands of percent.
It's a great place to be. People want to build businesses there.
So you're going to see this kind of jurisdictional arbitrage happen because companies are now so much digital.
There are so much remote. Right.
And I think what's cool about crypto is it's taking that idea of open economy, like open business friendly economy and global reach of Hong Kong and Singapore.
They're taking that model. I mean, we are taking that model and it's now crypto is now this global open border, low regulation system where you can just allow commerce to work freely without the government getting involved.
And that means there's a lot of pros and cons that come with that.
There's going to be more scams. There's going to be more things breaking faster.
There's going to be rugs and all kinds of shitty stuff like that.
But it's a it's this system that can grow so fast.
It's this wild west. It's like when America was built and didn't have all the regulations.
It's the reason America is the most powerful country in the world is because we didn't have those regulations early on.
And I think those regulations now are going to start are definitely stifling our growth.
There's no doubt about it. But we're going to move the world wants to move to this, I think, lower regulation, less government involvement.
People don't trust the government right now.
Trusting governments, trust in institutions, trust in banks is at the lowest it's ever been in the history of mankind.
And it helps that we have an information age now where people could share information about the corruption that's happened and the negatives of all this stuff and modern monetary theory and Keynesian economics.
Now we're people are waking up and seeing that, you know, the world doesn't need governments to be so big and so overbearing.
And now it's and it's not just, you know, the people saying it to the governments, it's the government saying it to the governments.
You know, all these BRICS nations, you know, that's in the headline today.
These BRICS nations are telling the United States and other Western countries, hey, you can't control us.
We are our own nation. Get out of our way.
We're not going to play this game anymore.
And so I think eventually we'll I think society generally moves in a better direction and we see progress.
There's times where things get bad, but society always improves.
If you look back far enough, everything improves from old times for the most part.
Interestingly enough, I'm seeing that, for example, banks are trying to get a grip on the crypto space because they see that they're actually losing on on something.
And apparently Deutsche Bank is trying to apply for crypto custodianship so people could keep their crypto within within their banks, for example, which is not why crypto was created.
But it just shows that banks are finally understanding that people are actually interested in this.
They see a value in the crypto space and they want a piece of it.
Of course, if they of course, if they become custodians of their their their their clients, crypto, they will gain their fees.
They will they will be able to place their Bitcoin here and there like the notorious Celsius Voyager, etc.
What they did before and hopefully it doesn't go to this.
I'm really not a proponent of centralized ownership or custodianship by a third party custodianship for for crypto, Bitcoin, etc.
But the thing is that if you want this to go mainstream, things like ETFs and bank custodianship of crypto might be a way in to to mainstream.
Even though it's it's detrimental, really, for the industry, because the first thing that that people need to understand is that when they buy Bitcoin, they own the Bitcoin and they they with the key they have, they they have full control of it.
If they deposit this in a bank, all of that is lost.
Well, maybe, but maybe the bank, I mean, maybe the bank has just one of your keys and maybe some other entity has a key and you have a key, for example.
That's that's a I think an acceptable option for some people.
Or to be honest, I think and I said this early on, I said this many years ago and as like, you know, Bitcoin maximization, decentralization, maxi and self custody maxi.
I mean, I think we shouldn't be totally close minded.
I think that there are people who would be more comfortable and frankly, should be more comfortable.
You know, very old people who don't even know how to use the Internet should not try to custody their own Bitcoin.
I'm going to say it.
I've said it before.
I even, you know, myself as advanced as I am and, you know, having been one of the first lightning network nodes and running Bitcoin node in 2000 and 15 or 16 and all these things.
I personally would actually open my mind to keeping.
And I said this many years ago and I got so much crap online on, I think, Twitter or Reddit.
I forget, but I would personally be I would consider holding five percent of my my crypto in Bank of America or something just as a hedge against like what if ledgers get hacked?
What if my you know, someone holds a gun to my head or holds me hostage and and, you know, for for a year and makes me like get all my Bitcoin keys from around the world and give them to them or something.
I think I think having some in a bank could make sense for even someone like myself.
I think we shouldn't be so close minded about anything in life.
No, I agree.
I agree, especially for the mainstream consumer.
This is this is a big step forward.
And hopefully it will allow people to understand how the technology works and they will just allocate.
A small percentage of their portfolio to the bank and keep the rest for themselves.
But, you know, 90 percent of the America.
I don't maybe I'm wrong on this number, but a majority of America's money is kept in banks.
So what would you rather have as a as a U.S., you know, or any country citizen?
Would you rather have your money in banks and fiat, which rapidly gets inflated away and the value goes down?
Or would you rather have it as Bitcoin in a bank?
It's a stepping stone until you get comfortable and and also until self-custody gets a little better.
It's improving.
There's a lot of things we can do to make it better.
And there's things we haven't even thought of yet.
You know, MPC wallets and account abstraction and different kind of multi signature like social backup wallets and things.
There's a lot of things that will come over time and it's it's really not ready for mainstream completely.
So as that improves, maybe we won't have to have so much in the bank.
Maybe they'll have some in the bank and maybe they'll have some in a hardware wallet, you know, with phrases backed up for a rainy day.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Oh, by the way, did you guys see the Jack?
Jack was joking the other day in the in the LDA chat about, you know, big companies making wonders like it was supposedly people.
But then it came out that it was Paxos that did a $2,000 Bitcoin transaction and they paid like $500,000, 19.2 Bitcoin in transaction fees for for that transaction.
But it was Paxos.
In any case, the the minor the minor pool that received the reward will reimburse the really the company.
Yeah, it came it came out today that they will reimburse the entirety of the of the transaction fee to who?
Yeah, what's the mining pool?
It was Block.io, I think.
Let me check.
Just just a sec.
I I went.
That's kind of crazy.
I wonder.
That's very interesting.
I mean, I don't know.
I don't know that they legally would have to.
I'm trying to think of like the math behind this.
Because if you start reimbursing mistakes like that, but other people don't, it means you're getting a lower return on investment and you're becoming less competitive.
I mean, there's a lot of things that come to mind with this.
It's weird.
Yeah, it was F2 pool that sent back the 19.8 Bitcoin fee overpayment back to Paxos.
It's also kind of cool to see like, you know, the Bitcoin community being able to self-regulate themselves.
There's no law about that, I don't think.
There can't be.
So for them to return that money that was a mistake to a big company like Paxos, it's actually very interesting and kind of probably a good sign to regulators about the industry in a way.
That's interesting.
Very interesting.
What the article says here is that F2 pool actually asked on Twitter, their following, what would they do if this happened?
What should they do?
And even though the community voted like to distribute everything to other miners, they didn't take that advice from the community and they just reimbursed Paxos.
That's very interesting.
Very, very interesting.
It's kind of cool.
Also kind of like raises a lot of questions about precedent that that sets and things, but that's very interesting.
Yeah, I don't know if we explained that well enough though, but what happened is there was a fee or there was a transaction that went through where someone accidentally put the, I think, I don't know what they did exactly.
Maybe they put the actual transaction, they put it in the fee area, their, their, their, their, their software, or maybe manually, who knows.
No, it was, it was automatic.
Apparently it was, it was a machine error.
A bug in their wallet software or whatever.
So yeah.
Something like that.
Like $500,000 gas fee got sent to F2 pool.
That's pretty interesting.
Crazy to see Paxos.
Like this is what I, when I say like the world's not really ready for everyone to be self-custidied.
I think, you know, if you're, look, if you're a technical person or even like interested in tech, you should definitely learn it.
A hundred percent.
You should learn it.
And I personally have all of my funds in cold storage.
But I just don't expect everyone else to be as tech, you know, savvy as myself or, or whatnot.
So, and there's other people that just aren't even allowed to do that.
You know, there's big businesses who can't do that.
They're not allowed to.
There's, there's pensions and sovereign wealth funds and family offices that have, you know, their mandates or bylaws that say, you know, where they're allowed to hold funds.
And self-custody Bitcoin is probably not in most contracts right now.
It's probably things like, you know, ETFs are approved, publicly traded stocks, stuff like that.
You know, big, big top, top 10 banks in the United States.
Third party, third party custodians for sure.
Because first party custodianship, it requires a lot of security measures.
You know, even if it's just on a ledger or anything like that, you need that to be very, very safely secured.
Who holds the ledger, you know?
Exactly.
Is it the guy in accounting and he just gets on a plane and leaves to Cuba?
That, that's the, that, that's the issue with the, with Bitcoin.
While, while it's a huge advantage to, to be able to transport it easily, it's all, it can also easily, you know, put the private key in a pocket, even though it's a, and a ledger in another pocket and you're good to go with $5 million in your pocket.
I just, I suspect some of the hacks that have happened over the years are people who stole the money and just said, oops, I got hacked.
I lost it in a boating accident.
Oh yeah, yeah, that's for sure.
The multi-chain incident, for example, there's a lot of speculation that's the family that, that just disappeared with the money.
So, yeah.
Either family or Chinese government, we can't figure out.
Maybe we'll know more when the guy, apparently the guy, maybe getting out of jail or out on bail or something, the actual CEO of multi-chain, there's rumor that he's getting out soon and maybe we'll be able to talk.
But then again, if he's in China, he may not be allowed to talk.
But my point in this is that even Paxos, which is supposed to be a custodianship company of, like, dollar assets and they issue stable coins, they were able to do such a blunder.
You really need to be careful in this industry.
I mean, this is incredible that a company like Paxos would do such a moronic thing and send $500,000 worth of transaction fees on Bitcoin of all networks.
I mean, it's pretty insane to think.
And I don't know what happens with the trust of the companies that are actually using Paxos to mint stable coins.
Oh, it's surely a hit against their trust, for sure.
I mean, like, if you're a company, I mean, you have to look at these.
They have a resume.
What's their security resume?
Have they been hacked?
Have they had blunders?
For sure.
People have to, of course, any business who's, they do their own due diligence too, just like us, right?
Do your own research.
Great, I was, uh, I went to, wanted to drink on the fountain and, uh, this woman just let her dog lick the fountain.
So, I'm going to skip.
Oh, okay.
But, in reality, how many dogs have licked that fountain and you just didn't know it would work?
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Or how many people have spit on it or something like that.
I don't know.
I'm just going to buy a bottle of water, I think.
Or if you're in the United States, a homeless person, or in California, a homeless person probably pissed on it.
Or worse.
So, in any case, guys, uh, yeah, so, uh, that's, that's about the, the, pretty much the topics of news that we had in the industry.
We can get to, uh, bricks now.
So, yeah, we can do a little bit of a, uh, uh, a clickbait here.
But, um, this is a clickbait that I think, uh, has, hold on, let me reconnect.
Okay.
It has some weight.
Yeah, it's not just a clickbait, uh, uh, just, just to bait clicks.
It really has some weight behind it.
Otherwise, we wouldn't put it in.
It's not, it's not our way to, uh, to just put click, clickbaited titles and not discuss them.
Let me get somewhere more, more quiet.
Yeah, we can hear you.
Let me get some, somewhere more quiet as well, because, uh, this playground is, uh, is, uh, swarming with children.
No problem.
So, um, you know, this actually plays into what we were talking about earlier, that, um, basically, governments around the world are a bit tired of the U.S.'s, um,
it's not just dominance, but it's control.
You know, it's one thing for their, if, if a country was the number one in GDP and, and has the biggest military and they, they leave everyone alone.
But if they start trying to tell you how to do your business and how to, you know, how your people should act and how, you know, uh, what laws you should change and things, um, people get a bit tired of that.
And we're seeing that with the BRICS nations.
So the BRICS nations are, um, Brazil, Russia, uh, India, uh, China and South Africa.
And now there's like another five or so that have been added five or six that are being added now.
Uh, and so that coalition is getting stronger and, uh, what they, this has actually been around for a long time.
I don't think people realize this has been around for decades, but, um, it hasn't really gotten any traction.
It's more of a posturing thing, it seems, but, uh, they, they had intentions of making their own, uh, like, uh, kind of like the IMF.
They wanted to have their own kind of bank to get issue funds for countries in the coalition that need help.
They, it's more of like trade alliances.
Like, okay, if you're in the BRICS, then, you know, we should be able to trade with each other, not using the dollar.
Let's use our own local currencies because why are we gonna, you know, uh, like the guy from South Africa has been saying it a lot lately.
Um, why are we like, if I do trade and I'm South African, I do trade with Russia or someone, why are we using the U S dollar?
Why is the U S dollar anywhere involved in our transactions and why are they censoring us and, and, um, uh, sanctioning us?
So they've been now talking about possibly making a commodity backed currency or basket of currencies.
Um, now I don't think they're going to do that very well, or if I just don't think it'll even happen, but if it does happen, I think there'll be a lot of issues with it.
How are you going to get countries like India and China who are having these like basically land wars and, and skirmishes, uh,
and have very different opinions, um, and China who has very different opinions than a lot, how are you going to get these countries to like issue a currency together and then decide who can print more of it and who gets it and, you know, what the inflation should be on it.
It's going to be very hard.
We've already seen like with the Euro there, that's a much more homogenous, uh, you know, group of countries and they have had so much trouble.
That's why you have Brexit and a lot of people think, you know, uh, you know, joining that, uh, the Euro was actually bad for a lot of these countries because if like one country has more exports or one country has more revenue, uh, they might like bent or they have less, they might benefit.
If they have more, maybe they don't, et cetera, et cetera.
It's hard to have a currency like that.
Uh, and so what I think will happen is I think they're going to use Bitcoin and I, and I would actually say I would give a 70% chance that within the next five to 10 years, uh, and I actually think it's very possible.
It could happen even in the next year or even the next six months or something, but I think they're going to realize them trying to make a new currency together is going to be very hard.
Uh, maybe they just keep their own currencies that they could use in their countries and they can print more of it to pay themselves and, and keep on that fun.
But for global trade, they should just use Bitcoin, uh, or Ethereum or even Doge.
Uh, I mean, these are, all these things are much better than them trying to make their own currency and are almost liquid enough.
I mean, Bitcoin is the only one that's probably close to being liquid enough for like, you know, massive trade between like Russia and China, for example.
Um, but I, I really think that in the near future, and I'm, I'm saying five to 10 years conservatively, but realistically, I think within the next few years, there's a very high chance that many countries will start going this route.
And they might not go this route completely.
They might not do all of their trade in Bitcoin, but they're going to start playing with it.
And I think they're going to start holding some of their reserves in it.
And we've seen this happen with El Salvador and some other island nations already.
And I, I think over the next years, especially as we have so much turmoil in the world, uh, questions about, you know, different things like U S dollar supremacy and, you know, interest rates and inflation around the world.
So I think there is a very, very high chance that these countries will move into Bitcoin, uh, or, you know, other currencies.
Uh, and I think when that happens, I mean, it's, it's good for them.
Similar to how, like when Elon Musk and, um, and Tesla, for example, said, they're going to buy Bitcoin.
The cool thing about when a big entity gets into Bitcoin is that they can go long and get loud.
That means they buy the ass, they start buying it, and then they tell everyone, uh, and when they tell everyone that makes other people buy it.
And now their asset through, you know, self-fulfilling kind of prophecy goes up in battle.
Bricks nations all started saying, we're going to do our trade between each other in Bitcoin.
Are we even going to just experiment to do this?
And they front ran it and bought a bunch of Bitcoin themselves.
And then said this, their Bitcoin would be just factually worth more, right?
Like, there's almost no way that if the Bricks nations all agreed to do this together, that Bitcoin wouldn't go up.
So it would be an immediate play for them.
Like, you know, they would make money from this play and they would solve their problem of being able to trade with each other, with countries that you are at.
You could even trade with Bitcoin at countries you are at war with or enemies, friends, does not matter.
It doesn't care.
And nobody can cheat the trade.
Nobody could reverse the trade.
The U.S. can't censor the trade.
They can't take your reserves.
This would solve all of their issues.
So I think there's a very high chance that I know that they're already looking at it.
That's for sure, because they've already mentioned they're looking at it.
Russia's mentioned multiple times they're considering cryptocurrencies for trade.
And so I'm sure all of these countries are looking at this and they're just thinking of the best way to do it.
Anyone have any opinions on that?
I think, yeah, I think it might be possible.
But what I'm wondering is, a lot of these countries, they have restricted or even banned retail trading of Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies.
So what they might do is they keep these restrictions and let only the government actually trade with these assets, which is not super awesome for the countries, for the people in the countries instead.
But even if your country is buying Bitcoin and you believe in it now, you cannot buy it yourself and cannot trade it.
It's a huge detriment to actually having these assets.
Of course, there are workarounds.
Because, I mean, we've seen in India, even when crypto was banned for so long, it was one of the countries that still traded crypto the most in the world.
So it doesn't mean it will go through.
But I'm not sure how they are going to approach this issue because a lot of these countries have been very opposed to retail trading of cryptocurrencies in general.
Like China, like Russia has been on and off with the faucet.
We like crypto.
We don't like it.
We tax it.
We don't tax it.
We allow mining and we restrict mining and we put people in jail because they're mining.
I mean, Russia has been all over the place with the regulation.
You never know what you can do.
They have been jumping just on different things to regulate and fine, maybe even, to get the most money from fines and punishing.
The people that are actually trading or mining.
But I'm wondering how they're going to approach this issue that they have at the moment because it's really not a black and white thing with them.
China has been, lately, has been a bit more lenient and started releasing a little bit of information.
Like, they're going to regulate instead of banning.
They're going to allow, like, companies to trade it before they allow retail traders.
Russia, I don't know.
Seriously, I don't know what they're doing because every day is something new with them and it's really weird.
Brazil, I'm not sure if I'm not mistaking it with another country, so I'm not going to say anything about them.
But I think they've had their issues as well with crypto on the retail side.
So, I don't know.
I don't know how they're going to approach this.
I mean, look, they're scared, right?
They don't understand it.
And we see already that many of these countries have reversed course and sometimes they've flipped and flopped and flipped and flopped.
But I think they're going to realize the benefits that can come to them.
Of course, like many of these, especially dictators and even democracies, they're less concerned with the people in reality than themselves and control and power.
And if something just benefits the citizens, but it hurts the people at the top and takes away their control and their power, most importantly, to print money, of course, they're going to be skeptical and hesitant to adopt it and run with it with open arms.
But, you know, once if they see that this solves their biggest problem, which is dealing for many of these countries, their biggest problem is dealing with the U.S.
That's their biggest problem is the sanctions and that stuff cripples their entire economies.
They're people, they're citizens, and they're, you know, the people at the top.
So if they see that they find a solution to that, I'll tell you, they'll be much more open to embracing it.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
That's, it's an interesting thing.
It's a long play, of course.
We're not going to see it adopted in any time soon, like, you know, a year or something like that.
So it's more like, as you said, like five to ten years.
They're going to explore this, install some mechanisms for trading.
I mean, it's not an easy thing to do, to switch from the petrodollar to Bitcoin, of all things, especially when it's still so volatile.
But in any case...
It isn't that hard, man.
It isn't as hard as dealing with the petrodollar, I'll tell you that, for these sanctioned countries.
You know why?
Because they're not allowed to deal with the petrodollar, the U.S. dollar.
They're sanctioned.
And if they want to trade with other countries, those countries get punished, too.
So I think, you know, when you...
People use the dollar because it's, I mean, it's the greatest currency of all the fiat currencies.
That's for sure.
But it also has its issues, and they're being squeezed.
You have to realize these countries are being squeezed.
They are being bled.
They are being, their people are literally, in some cases, starving.
So at a certain point, they have to find a solution.
And trying to get all the BRICS countries to agree on creating a currency together, I'm just going to take a wild guess here and say that isn't going to work very easily.
Even if it does work for some short time, there will be differences, and then they'll have the same issue, right?
China will keep getting stronger, and then they'll try to control that currency.
So, like, the answer to everyone's problems, the answer to humanity's problems of the last 10,000 years is Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and DeFi and Doge and Polygon and Ethereum and even maybe, and I'm not a big fan of, but, like, things like XRP as, like, rails for these countries' IOUs.
I don't think that's where it's going to go.
But there's...
Look, let's let the market decide, right?
Let's let people, if people want to use Bitcoin as their store value and to send money between countries, cool.
If they want to use Doge as their currency to buy stuff online and to buy cups of coffee, cool.
If they want to use Lightning Network, cool.
Let's let the public decide.
But the great thing is now we have a...
We built this open system where different monies can compete.
Historically, different monies couldn't compete.
I mean, there were times where we had that.
There were times when banks issued currencies and states issued currencies in the United States.
There were times before that where there were more local currencies.
But now we've gotten to a situation where basically countries with militaries force their citizens to use a certain currency or they put them in a cage.
And then now, even bigger than that, you have bigger countries that tell other countries if they don't use their currency, they'll put them in a cage or, you know, drone bomb them and say they have weapons of mass destruction.
I know I may...
I feel bad here because I sound like I hate America or something and I don't.
I absolutely love this country.
And I think it's the greatest country in the world.
I'll keep saying it.
But we can be better.
And that's, you know, what America is about is trying to find ways to be better.
And when we see problems, we say it.
And that's what every country should be about.
And America has helped opened up so many countries to be able to even voice their opinions about their governments.
But that's my prediction.
Bricks in the next...
I'll go even boldly and say Bricks countries will use some form of crypto, probably Bitcoin, in the next five years.
If anyone wants to bet money on it, I would even put money on it.
But I'll say it here publicly and we'll revisit this.
I would say it's even a high chance in the next couple of years, actually.
So if it happens, I'm going to be on here talking about it.
Even on a smaller scale, for example, in social networks like Twitch, YouTube, etc., you know, donations like Patreon.
I don't know, man.
I don't understand why these people...
I know that the platforms themselves, they bring them a lot of users.
But streamers, for example, they get gutted by this platform so much.
They get control.
They can't say whatever they want.
And it's insane that most of them don't even consider crypto when...
Jesus Christ, man.
Sorry.
They don't even consider crypto as an alternative yet because everybody still thinks it's a scam.
So it just shows us how early it is.
Like the Paxos thing, it shows us how early we still are.
Many of these things...
Sorry, go ahead.
No, it's...
I was done.
Many of these things will be commoditized, like these technologies.
Like the internet has become kind of just like an infrastructure, right?
And many parts of the internet don't like...
You're not paying someone to use the rails of the internet, like necessarily.
And you do to some extent, right?
You pay your local data provider to, you know, your ISP to connect to you and things.
But you've got browsers are free.
Email services are free, etc.
All these things become very commoditized as they become cheaper to build and use.
And there's other ways that companies monetize.
But I think like crypto actually is even better because you don't need companies, right?
You can have...
Like Uniswap code is out there in the public and anyone can use it.
And you don't need a company to run that code necessarily, right?
That can be just run by anyone.
People can add liquidity and do swaps.
And Uniswap doesn't even take a fee out of it.
And so I think there'll be things like, you know, whatever, Patreon or Kickstarter or whatever.
All these softwares like you were kind of mentioning, streamers like Twitch.
All these things I think will just be built on blockchains.
And there may be a monetization model.
And likely in a lot of cases there will be.
But there will also be situations where like there isn't a monetization model.
These things just get so easy to build and so commoditized and so open source that they'll just be like, you know...
Like Uniswap, the company could get sued by the SEC and they have and, you know, they're being attacked by the SEC.
But like at the end of the day, that code is open source.
And even if they get shut down, the company, that code is there on the internet for people to use.
The cat's out of the bag.
You can't stop that.
So I think many of these things will just become like open source, you know, public goods.
And that's really what like crypto should be is public goods and preferably without companies behind it.
And in as many areas as we can remove companies and middlemen, that is the beauty of this industry, right?
I mean, now lots of people flock to this industry to make money and build things.
And there's tons of money to be made.
But over time, we should be able to start removing a lot of the middlemen, the rent seekers, the brokers.
Like, you know, what crypto does is, I mean, it's like an escrow service and just a digital escrow service where, you know, like when you buy a house, you go get escrow, you know, an escrow company that helps.
Basically, they take your finances and then they take the deed of the house and they do a bunch of regulatory things.
And then they swap them to make sure that you're not showing up to get a house deed with cash and get robbed as part of it, right?
And that you're obeying like laws.
But you could really just program this stuff into smart contracts eventually where you won't need escrow services and it'll cost.
Now you won't need to pay that $1,000 or $2,000 or whatever it is that the escrow company charges when you buy a house.
You won't need to pay necessarily even a broker like, you know, a real estate person.
Maybe in some cases you will.
Maybe in some cases it'll just be done on chain.
Yeah, with a royalty fee or something like that, maybe.
If you're selling a real estate NFT, there's a royalty of 2.5% that goes to the broker, for example.
But everything is done on chain.
I'm not saying we shouldn't pay these people that are actually doing the work, trying to find the buyer and the seller, etc.
Somebody is actually doing that work, is showing the house, is preparing the house.
They should be paid something.
Pay for services that are needed and that we can't obfuscate, that we can't remove the middlemen.
If they're needed, they're needed.
They should be paid for their time.
I'm all for that.
But wherever we can, let's use technology to remove the necessity to have all of these middlemen.
The less middlemen in the world, the better.
I mean, I'm for, and I think this is something that might upset people, but like AI and self-driving, making it so we don't need truck drivers.
I'm sorry if you're a truck driver.
It's one of the biggest professions in the United States, for example.
But we shouldn't be just paying truck drivers to drive stuff for the sake of paying them and making jobs.
If we can make a self-driving truck do it for free without having the hundreds of thousands a year and the risks of falling asleep at the wheel and all the things that come with it,
like all the benefits that would come with this, I hate to say it, but I think we should be totally open to that.
Wherever we can make people more efficient, we should allow it to happen.
I mean, it would be like, you know, if people were hand carving, you know, or let's say, you know, humans were like hand washing clothes and then you gave them like a little great thing that they use in the river to make it, you know, a little faster.
That's a good thing, right?
We don't say, oh, you're going to take away the work of the people cleaning the clothes.
Because if someone's like, you know, a carpenter is building houses, you don't like if we design some new tool that makes his life easier, you don't say, oh, it's going to make less hours for the carpenters.
Or, you know, if we can make factories to build items instead of making them by hand, we don't say, oh, but then the people that make it by hand will lose their jobs.
I mean, we have to progress forward and make, like, make, remove all the friction.
That's what technology is.
That's what capitalism is.
That's what humanity is.
Yeah, this has been like a narrative for the last, what, 100 years, 150 years since the industry, industry age and industrialization of everything.
Way before that.
There's plenty of cases.
Way before.
So, yeah, yeah.
But in a larger scale, I mean, maybe, maybe 160, 200 years.
But in any case, it has always been to be more efficient if you're able to make something faster and provide more for people to be able to do, to purchase items or services that are actually automated.
It's a narrative that exists forever.
I mean, it's not something new.
It's not like AI is going to take our jobs or self-driving cars are going to take the truckers' jobs or anything like that.
If it's able to do it more efficiently, there are other jobs out there.
There are so many other jobs that, and maybe someday utopia, you know, like Isaac Asimov's utopia where robots do everything they can and people do nothing, you know?
They just chill, create art, watch movies, discuss stuff, philosophy, et cetera.
So, yeah, maybe that's the 100 years.
People will always find ways to make themselves valuable and useful, and I don't think we should.
This goes back to the whole, like, the government trying to coddle us and bubble wrap everything and protect us.
Like, you know, humans, not just Americans, but humans are very resilient and strong creatures, and we can do these.
We can protect ourselves.
We can find new jobs.
I feel sorry for the people, like maybe older truckers who can't, you know, learn a new skill or something.
You know, there will be damage.
There will be pain, right?
Like, when factories happen, the people hand-carving goods, their business was, you know, disrupted.
When, you know, the car came out, the, you know, people making horse-drawn carriages, their business was disrupted.
Businesses are disrupted all the time.
It's a good thing for society.
Yeah, for sure.
Just a reminder, Rock, you have a call in five minutes, so we're going to have to cut this space short a little bit.
And we're going to slowly wrap it up for today.
I know it's shorter than usual, but next week we'll have some alpha, most probably, regarding one of the topics, which is social networks, maybe.
So, I'm not going to talk in length about that yet here until we've discussed it with the team and everything that's going to come.
But there's some really cool updates coming for the Dogechain community and the Dogecoin community specifically.
So, yeah, stay tuned for the next, for the next space is number 54 next week, next Friday, same time, 1800 UTC.
And, yeah, thanks everybody for coming.
Sorry to keep this one short, but it was sweet, I guess.
We had a lot of things to talk about.
We've still got a couple minutes.
Let's do some audience shout-outs.
We've got Leslie in the audience, a long-time listener.
We've got PeePee, who I've followed.
And thanks for the follow-back.
And we've got Pennybags.
And we've got Kermit the Dogechain guy.
We've got Abra.
We've got TheHat2K5.
I think you're a newer listener.
Gyozer.e.
Let's see.
Where was the – who's governance at Polygon Labs.
Nice, nice.
Yeah, I always say, like, Polygon, I see as, like –
Dogechain is really – it's like a child of Doge and Polygon is how I look at it.
And then the grandparents are, like, Bitcoin and Ethereum, since Doge was forked from Bitcoin and Polygon is a layer two of Ethereum.
But, yeah, cool.
So we've got Lorenz.
We've got the Crypto Canuck, Shibi.
We've got Shark.
We've got Jim Maker, Druggist, Dogechainian, CIO.
We've got Gaisa, B, Richie Guru.
We've got Queen of Dogechain.
We've got Extra Trails, Bilbo, T. Baggins, Jared.
We've got Sheebsdude with TDH in the name.
We've got Baby Yoda, the best of all.
And we've got – that's not an endorsement of their project.
I just love Baby Yoda.
We've got Baby DC.
We've got Chewy Swap, Fleckus, DSH with some pot leaves on his profile.
We've got Dansky1995 with an RDP – no, not an RDP, a Doge meme in his PFP.
I'll give you a follow.
We've got Dr. Little.
We've got John James Power, Ambles, Hay Fist, Doge Fiona.
That's kind of cute.
It's like Fiona from Shrek with Doge colors and stuff.
Cool.
Or Shrek colors.
We've got Pepe Sprotto Trump.
And, yeah, we'll end it there, guys.
Thanks, everyone.
And, yeah, think about this.
And while you're watching the news and you see Bricks Nations talking about a currency,
think about what we said here and keep an eye out for it because I have a fairly high degree of confidence
that the Bricks Nations and other countries will start using crypto because it just makes sense.
It's just their best option, period.
All right, guys.
Have a great weekend.
Be good to each other.
Call your mothers if you haven't in a while.
And, yeah, bye-bye.
See you, guys.
Thanks a lot.
Bye-bye.
