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NFTs - The Next Billion in Liquidity?🎙
Recorded: Dec. 12, 2023 Duration: 2:50:43Space Recording
Full Transcription
Back in the day of Clubhouse, I opened up rooms and met a lot of you guys.
And for 30 consecutive nights, we dived into the securities and just learning more about
and tried to help people really, you know, get better educated on the NFT space.
So like all of you, you know, we've kind of stepped back, but I do believe there's a stronghold.
And I guess one of the questions that I want to just pose to you guys, you know, I mean,
they're kind of talking about that the NFT winter is finally giving away.
And, you know, I mean, do you feel we're going to see more artists and celebrities coming
back in and embracing the NFTs?
Like, what do you feel is going to it's going to take to kind of kickstart?
Not to bring up another question, but I'm just kind of curious what your guys' thoughts are.
Well, DGENs are DGENs, right?
I mean, it's unfortunate.
It's a DGENing is a disease and you'll see the craziest of things ungodly pump for absolutely
no reason because DGENs come in all size of wallets, right?
It can come into the guy that's investing 10 US dollars into something or let's say 0.01
ETH to the guy that's investing, you know, a thousand ETH or a hundred thousand ETH and
spread across different things.
So it's the gambling addiction that, you know, unfortunately is a disease and people
get into things heavier than they should, right?
So we look at this volume and mind you, this is just my obviously opinion, some speculative,
some of, you know, past logic, that kind of deal and cases.
But if you look at what is transpiring now, we still have absolutely nothing for volume
compared to the volume that we came from, right?
When we had this, uh, August to, um, November run in NFTs, right?
August to November, it was just absolutely ungodly, right?
The, the, you know, unfortunately that the, the market that held the majority of the volume
was OpenSea.
So if you look at what OpenSea was back then, it, you know, it had billions of dollars of
volume of monthly volume, billions, billions, right?
Where are we at now?
Right.
I mean, yes, it's more diluted now, as far as we have a, a crap load of marketplaces all
over the place.
Okay.
But yeah, but it's, it's all, it's all kind of like, you know, spread out in, in the liquidity
is really spread out, but then you can aggregate it, right?
You can look at, you know, tools that, that I've mentioned there.
Um, and there's others too, as well, where you can look at different metrics.
I mean, we're, we're still, even us as a, as crypto, right.
Um, or blockchains called that with blockchain investing, even the non NFT world.
I mean, we're still nowhere near, you know, the, the, the volume that we had before.
I mean, we're kind of, you know, as far as total market cap, we're kind of approaching
there, but look at what the total market cap was when, you know, NFTs boomed out and where
we were in the crypto side.
So, you know, they do kind of correlate cause it, you know, in essence, people do, you know,
they, they're holding these, these, these other coins and whatever chains are there.
So I, I don't think we're really kind of, you know, shouldn't judge it for that.
But yes, celebrities did have a big, um, run up for us.
Right.
But are we just going to invest?
It's kind of getting harder and harder to correlate all the data nowadays because there's
just so many chains, just so many marketplaces.
Nobody's aggregating them all yet.
It's right.
Cause I know, okay.
AX just came in and just ate a whole bag of fucking open seas lunch.
They're over a billion dollars in a day, I think, or something like that.
So they're, they're, they're eating it up.
Does anybody, does anybody have any of the, uh, mad labs?
Um, I think that was a big boost in Solana's, uh, NFT market.
Um, has anybody looked at them or seen where they want, went?
Oh, the mad labs are doing great.
And their, their backpack, uh, sort of thing they're doing is really promising because it
offers a lot of functionality.
So that not, it wasn't just the mad labs.
It was the mad labs plus the back backpack.
Plus they were doing a lot of actual work.
That's what really made them.
And it wasn't just like, ah, it's a picture and it's all we got.
No, they had a whole ecosystem of, of goods and services and new ideas that really came
out.
And I think that's, that's what it's going to take to be perfectly honest, to get a
lot of these, uh, celebrities and artists and all these things.
I don't think we have a system in place right now that, how can I put this, uh, protects
their ass because they are getting absolutely railed, um, everywhere they go.
I don't know if you just saw this, but what was a soccer dude, right?
Um, soccer dudes getting sued in, in court.
Uh, this guy's getting sued in court.
These guys, so yes, something has to be there to prevent them from getting.
So, uh, yeah, take it specifically, specifically creator led brands, the idea of celebrity
or creator led brands.
So where you have your, your Kevin Hart's releasing their own collection.
First off, I mean, that was, that was, I think a strong canary in the coal mine, strong
top signal, right?
For, for market was a force for him to come in and try to just leverage a celebrity.
So getting celebrities to come in and willingly put their, their image and likeness on the
line as the initial IP that launches a collection, I don't see the next NFT bull market leading
with that.
And it might not even be halfway through.
It might not even be like, it might potentially be the next top signal again, because celebrities
are historically extremely risk averse.
They built their careers doing entirely separate things and then built up the value of their stock,
so to speak, uh, their celebrity stock.
And then, uh, licensing their image and likeness.
They're very particular about it.
In the 1980s, the case in point, right?
Pre, pre blockchain, all this other stuff, but not pre celebrity in the 1980s and nineties,
super common for Hollywood celebrities to do any commercial work that they wanted to do
overseas.
And I mean, Japan, uh, Eastern block, former Eastern block countries, if they had brands
that would be willing to pay it, Western European countries, of course.
That was pretty Michael Jordan though, right?
That, that was pretty Michael Jordan.
Yes, the correct.
That was pretty Michael Jordan, but it was also during Michael Jordan's time.
It was in a world where, where air Jordans existed and where, and where Nike was creating
that new mold.
Right.
Um, but yeah, I mean, pro shoes hadn't, it's not like they hadn't been tried before.
All I mean to say is, uh, to, to kind of draw a fractal there, if you will, of like, of
how celebrities are, are kind of, you know, they're, they're actually kind of laggards
when it comes to adoption of this stuff.
You had some of these Hollywood a-listers who frankly had more global, uh, recognition
than Michael Jordan did.
Why did Jordan get the deal?
Cause he was niched down enough.
He was specific enough.
And that it's stuck until just recently.
Right.
Um, so getting celebrities involved to lend their IP to something, it needs to be a net
credit to what they're already doing.
And NFTs, frankly, so far just haven't been at all.
So when you get these, these celebrities coming in to endorse anything in our industry, it winds
up being because the treasury of that group is, is, is flush enough with cash that they
can pay the commercial rate of that celebrity to lend their image at that point.
So we would need to see another blue chip collection come, uh, you know, we need to
see something really wild come out of left field for a celebrity to come in and say,
all right, cool.
You can pay me, you know, X, you know, whatever my eight figure retainer is, but you can pay
me X amount to talk about your brand.
Well, let me run the numbers in my head.
Hopefully if I don't, at this point, if I don't violate securities law and, and get
Kim Kardashian and have my entire fee get clawed back, then I should be able to withstand
any potential negative outcomes.
And, and yeah, maybe I can jump in, but, but it's, it's probably going to look a lot more
like commercial work all over again.
Just endorsements, not necessarily new IP.
I think, well, I think the other part of that too, is there's no protection for them.
Right.
I mean, their, their identity is, you know, their brand is their identity and you know,
who they are.
And if there aren't any safeguards, you know, and like you said, we're seeing the lawsuits
come in now, um, you know, that's the, you know, that's a warning sign to them.
And so until I, you know, I feel until we see some more guidelines that are, you know,
protecting, you know, their, their images and their brand.
Um, I don't think we're going to see a huge bandwagon jumping onto it right away, but I
do believe that, um, you know, the ticket way, you know, you guys were talking earlier
about, uh, using the tickets and, uh, I see, um, uh, Colbin just sold the Mavericks.
So it's coming to Vegas.
Let's see if, uh, they use somebody jumps on the bandwagon with them and gets crypto in
there.
That'll be interesting.
Tickets are one of the, one of the original like ideas for this stuff that people, Oh, we
can just, and then, you know, you own it and then the scalper thing, and there's the
whole verification that it's a real one and, uh, versus some fake thing that somebody printed
out possibly, or, um, but it may come in the technology may come in the form of some sort
of, uh, you know, IP protection or legal protection, or the technology may come from, uh, some form
of capital protection so that less people are likely to sue.
There's some sort of financial wizardry.
If you actually had utility, people probably wouldn't feel the need to sue.
I hope we never have.
Yeah.
So we did in the past, to be honest, because this PFP, NFT stuff, that phase is over.
I think we need real utility because there's like NFTs touch so many industries and can bring
real value, probably more utility than anything else in crypto, but everybody's focused on like
depending, depending on what, depending on what it's solving.
Well, that's, that's mostly, yeah, go ahead, Jay.
Oh, no, I was going to say, and, and, and somebody I want to, wanted to touch up this about,
and, and it's weird, hold on, because I just saw a profile pic for Doc that had like a,
like a, like the European wigs, whatever the hell those things are called, the judge wigs,
whatever they are.
So I don't know what the hell just happened because it was there.
Now it's not there.
Doc, what, yeah, you're blowing my mind here.
I can put the picture up if you give me a second, but let me jump in here a second.
A couple of things to say.
I thought I was tripping, man.
I was like, wait a minute.
Is somebody hacking the system here?
Cause he's like having something, he's not having something.
No, you know, a lot of what I've done the last year or so since Elon restored this account
has been legal analysis, not just here, but, but also in Europe.
And, and I've got a follower who, as a fan, I was commenting on some British law stuff and
he threw that, that thing on my head and people thought it's pretty funny, but let me, let me
shit on the whole NFT thing here just to sort of balance the room out.
Not that I just, I agree completely with what Gamer Tag just mentioned.
Um, so I, I just came into the industry, you know, I don't know, about a year ago and I'm
learning a lot and I'm, I'm the dumb boomer who doesn't understand web three and crypto,
uh, looks at the DGEN, you know, community and the, the rug pulling, uh, which you always
hear about.
And my background is in, in, uh, well, I was a series seven broker for Lehman brothers
back in the late eighties, early nineties.
So my, my perspective on the industry is from a conventional finance.
standpoint and, and, and investor standpoint from, you know, I hear it in these rooms
all the time from the, from the generation that has all the money and, you know, we need
to get, you know, people like me and involved.
And so that's why, uh, Noah and Moby and, uh, and the community has sort of embraced me
with a badge.
And so I can flip my pictures around and it's really the best use for it with the profile
pics.
But, so I think a couple of things are happening when I come into the, the NFT discussion in
the, in the midst of the worst bear market, you know, ever.
Um, and I think that there's a couple of dynamics that are working against this recovery.
Um, and I think the only savior for that would be the sort of new use cases that you're talking
about.
Uh, I think Seth, it was, you mentioned, um, you know, uh, pairing up, uh, a purchase of
a ticket for the world cup this year with, you know, uh, some sort of a discount, uh, with,
uh, with an NFT for the next two years.
Cool.
Cool stuff.
Right.
Marketing one-on-one, right.
Once you've got a customer on the hook, you know, try and keep them on the hook.
And if you can introduce a technology that, you know, is, can provide some, uh, additional
advantages beyond marketing.
Um, that's great.
But, but I, I think what's happening is with what the rise in Bitcoin and, and the trailing
rise in ETH, uh, is a reflection in, in part, not in whole, but in part of the coming, um,
uh, acceptance of the Bitcoin ETFs.
And with that is coming, increasing, uh, regulatory oversight and need for the regulatory oversight
so that people in my generation and people in your generation, whatever generation you
might be can, can trust it as a, as a, not just an investment vehicle, but, uh, but, but
with all the, all the benefits that, that Bitcoin brings in terms of, you know, curing
your own net worth around in, in your head, if you can remember your 12 seed cases.
So I think the real opportunity that people are looking at, if they look at the broader
Web3 crypto market is going to be, um, in, in Bitcoin and its adoption and its, um,
whatever, uh, X we can get in growth with, uh, you know, more participation from, from,
uh, people like myself.
So in, in the face of that, I think, uh, people, my, you know, people that I know, people
my age will look at a, um, uh, a Bitcoin sort of opportunity in that vein and, and be appreciative
of, of, uh, of a, of a two X or a three X or four X or whatever that might be.
I, I, I, I do think it's going to pull back before it breaks old, the old ceiling of the
65 or whatever it was.
I think that's where the interest is going to be for a while.
And in terms of the older NFT market, uh, I think it needs to reinvent itself.
It also has to find ways, um, to deal with the security risks in the DGN community.
Um, and I'll just land it with this, that when you mentioned that the crypto punks and, uh,
you know, they're always going to be part of the culture.
I think the culture is part of the issue, um, for, for people like myself.
So that's just my general thoughts.
I hadn't written any of this down, but just that's my reflections.
And, and, uh, I hope to be wrong, you know, because I know a lot of people tried very,
very hard, um, to, to make this thing work and I'm not hostile to it generally.
That's just, uh, I guess my perspective.
Sure.
Well, doc, thanks for, thanks for bringing that up.
I definitely appreciate those points.
And, and, uh, so you, you mentioned, I want to double click on something a little bit with
the group.
I heard NFT Godmother come off, uh, come off of mute.
So before I defer over there and also, uh, I think it might be Nathan that's behind the crypto
bags account.
We'll get to your hands as well, but I wanted to double click just a little bit on what you said
about, uh, potentially the culture being the problem.
Cause Jay mentioned earlier, the, the issue with DJ and culture, it's, you know, it's
easy money.
This happens in every industry where, wherever there's a perception of easy money that there
is a, a bit of a lowest common denominator effect and that culture can grow.
It can, it can grow in a very interesting and maybe artistic way because of the niche
that we occupy, right.
And the culture of, of trying to build community surrounding art and, uh, and then continue to
have price appreciation surrounding art.
So if you've ever been around fine art, you know, there's a very strange culture around,
around anything where there's a perception of, of easy or perhaps just big money.
So doc, uh, help, help us explore just a little bit more.
What do you mean by the culture maybe being the problem?
Do you mean that it's because there's that D gen easy money attitude or is there some other
aspect?
No, I mean, everyone's in favor of easy money, right?
But along with the easy money, you know, you have people getting a hundred X or 200 X and that's
great.
A lot of times that's because of a, uh, what I call this initial offering pump, you know,
and then, and then the investors pull out and you know, who, who knows, you know, where
it goes from there because the base support is gone.
And it's not dissimilar to what happens in the conventional markets when you're doing
a stock IPO, right?
The, the, uh, the, uh, the brokerage house that's leading that initial public offering,
they, they take a position in it, right?
They get treasury shares, they get a shit ton of options.
And once the option window opens and that stuff gets sold to a large extent.
And, and so what you might, might initially have as a pump of conventional stocks, you
you'll see in the charts that a lot of times you'll see a drop, particularly if, you know,
it's just doesn't have the innate value that, uh, the, um, uh, you know, the parties who brought
it to market thought it had.
And of course, some stuff just explodes right up because the market's ready for it.
And I do think that the Bitcoin ETFs are, are going to drive a lot of that going forward
in this, in this sector, but, but, um, yeah, I, I think that there's good players and bad
players in every industry, but the difference between this industry and conventional is that
this industry really sort of started and embraced the counterculture, uh, the quote unquote,
the D gen crowd.
And this was a place that, you know, not just artists and athletes explored.
It's a, it's a, it's a place where criminals and drug dealers and, uh, pedophiles and that
sort of place explored as well.
So these sorts of, Hey, GSC down there, uh, what's wrong with you?
What?
Yeah, I know.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm just going to say, uh, also just for, just for the record, I, I don't know of
any smart, uh, human traffickers that are using NFTs to display their wares.
I think the FBI would love that if they did.
It's, it's all a narrative, right?
It's all immediate, you know, CNN narrative.
Yeah, but he's a Fox news guy.
That's the point.
The point is that there's shit.
Oh, you say, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Hold on.
Do you think Fox news is different than CNN?
No, what I'm trying to say is that exactly all news outlets, all, all media hates crypto.
So, so there, there, I just say, I just say CNN because it's the easiest, you know, liberals
are easier to kind of point, but, but look, look at, look at this doc, like, cause you
brought up something about the standardized markets, right?
The, the, the, you know, the, the non crypto side of the world.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When I, when, um, I was, uh, I was heavy into options trading back in, uh, the old
Under Armour days when the rock got in there.
I don't know if you guys remember that back in 2013, 14, whatever.
Um, so I, uh, I remember this, they actually regulate volatility.
So I, I, I, I, I understand there's a, there's a kind of a sort of a need for that, but not
really because why are you telling me how much I should earn on my money that I'm investing
Yeah, I don't know if they're, uh, regulating volatility or just making sure they don't
get their ass blown out by some bad, dark pool, short, uh, cause I, from, I mean, not
looking up the rules, but I think it was like a seven or 8% movement.
Then there's a 20% movement and they just, they, what they do is they completely halt trading
on that specific stock.
Now imagine that being a crypto.
Oh my God, everything would freeze all the time.
Right.
Because we're just so violent and, and our, our liquidity is, is much lower and it just
easier to move.
But if that, if that, if that sort of right, David, if that sort of regulatory oversight
can be brought into, into the NFT market.
It's bad.
You can't, you can't curb, you can't unnaturally curb risk.
You can't, that's what they're doing.
They're curving risk.
Yes.
They're curving risk, dude.
And that doesn't let the natural order of whatever should happen at the company.
Listen, if something internal is happening, right, let's take a look at Disney.
What's happening now, right?
Disney got famous cases right now of having, you know, VPs doing whatever they doing in
their, in their spare time, which is fucking disgusting.
But, you know, and, and then now, now they're, you know, openly supporting a platform that
is promoting the same thing, you know, and that kind of deal.
So it's kind of catching wind a little bit.
And, and even though their parts are still filled up there, their overall structure of,
of, of, of their stock model is, is, is, is kind of dying.
So what's to happen when that 20% movement down, because I don't want to invest there.
They're telling me that if I don't get in at the right time, I can't trade that, even
though I want to get out.
So if that volatility spike moves down 20% or whatever, they're trying to front run on
that.
Then they're telling me that I can't, I can't get my money out, even though I put, I, they,
they let me freely put the money in, but they are not letting me take my money out.
So, dude, that, that's, that's a censorship control that, you know, us being, that's
probably, that's probably necessary, that's probably necessary and beneficial.
It might, it might impact you, you know, individually in terms of getting your money
out.
But the reason, the reason that those guardrails are put in place is, wait, did we just, uh,
did I just lose everybody?
Oh, I hear.
Oh, I hear.
Oh, no, I think you're going to finish with, because the large money positions don't want
to lose their asses, and so they hedge against the average day bear, and that doesn't exist
in crypto.
Let me finish my sentence.
Okay, so that wasn't what you were going to say?
You jumped in right in the middle fidget.
I think we need to do a round, Jay.
I think we need to do a round where Doc is allowed to finish all of Fidget's sentences
and vice versa.
Both.
I can do it, but I don't want to do it.
Are you guys virtually married?
Because this is like a, you know, husband-husband relationship or whatever you want to call it.
No, it's, it's, it's just unrequited sexual tension.
Go on.
No, I'm very gay for Doc, but go ahead.
Yeah, it's, you know, it's mutual.
So anyway, this is why you guys interrupt me.
You can't interrupt a boomer because they just lose their train of thought.
No, the reason that those sorts of regulatory guardrails are put in place in the conventional
markets is, is yes.
Does it hurt the big guys that have the original positions, the guys that did the IPO?
Yeah, maybe so.
But also what they're doing is they're projecting the larger community in the marketplace from,
you know, really severe spike drops.
And those, those regulatory restrictions typically don't last that long.
So maybe you might lose a little bit of an opportunity there, but it's for the overall,
I think there is the case to be made that it is also for the overall safety of the environment
and the investors in that particular opportunity.
Okay, Ian.
So, so I'm hearing, Doc, from you, I'm hearing that, that, that you're welcoming some kind
of what you would consider balanced regulation that is a bit more specific to digital assets
and NFTs and collectibles.
Sure.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's not going to happen.
The ETFs for Bitcoin aren't going to happen unless you have some sort of agreement.
Right.
And that's being discussed now.
Europe just, I think Moby put something out.
I mean, it was Noah put something out about the new regulatory oversight that's been agreed
to in Europe.
So, yeah, I think that there has to be an embrace and adoption of some limited regulatory oversight.
How that happens, I don't know.
That's one of the reasons why I think I bring value to these discussions is because I can
bring the perspective of how those same type of regulations in the regular markets have
both helped and hurt and how they've been taken advantage of, how it's enabled people
to defraud and also to prevent fraud.
So nothing's going to be perfect.
But I think to get people like myself involved in, for example, the NFTs, is you have to
have some assurance of security beyond what we have right now.
Amazing.
Well, so that's, thank you for clarifying some of that.
We've got a couple people on stage that we brought up and we didn't actually say hello
So CryptoMag, thanks for having your hand up.
I'm going to jump over you though, to say hello to Prometheus, who we brought on stage like
30 minutes ago.
It's been a while.
No, I'm grateful and I've just been listening and also just going over the data on Messario
and a few other places for the NFT marketplace.
And I generally agree with Doc.
You know, good to see you, Doc, Digital and Noah and everybody else on stage.
But no, my perception is that the use cases of this technology are hardly being truly explored
as of yet.
And without going into too much detail, my team and I are exploring, for example, a real
estate solution using NFTs.
And I think that's going to be a huge play if it's done properly.
And then same with, you know, like services that you can, you know, through some degree
of transparency track.
You know, I do see like the next billion in liquidity coming from a non like non traditional
in this space.
Can you even call it that?
It's so new.
But, you know, like a new blue ocean set of use cases, because the technology, as you mentioned,
my, you know, it's it is blockchain, you know, and I think blockchain is just truly in its
infancy.
I think as we see greater collapses in the traditional financial sector, those who use this technology
wisely, right?
Like with great power comes great responsibility kind of thing.
And you're not just here for the rug pulls.
You're not just here for like the next shill.
You actually use it for, you know, real world use cases that, you know, the boomers and co can
get behind.
And it's simple and fairly straightforward to use.
I think that's where we're going to see real value.
Amazing.
Totally agreed.
And thank you for joining us.
Thank you for chiming in.
Gamertax.
Did we haven't, have we actually heard from you yet?
You've had a couple of comments.
I mean, to what Prometheus said, I personally think the billion, next billion is actually
going to come from gaming.
Obviously, I might feel a bias, but when it comes to.
No, I agree with you.
I 100% agree with you.
Wait a minute.
You're mean to tell me that the eight year old with daddy's credit card is going to go
ahead and just buy crypto here.
Yeah, bro.
From all the daddy's credit cards all around the world for all of them.
Are you kidding me?
Of course they are.
They do it anyway.
The minute daddy, the minute daddy sees Harry Potter in you, Elon Doge in his, in his, in
his purchase of his credit card.
You think what you know is going to happen?
My guy, you know, it's going to happen, bro.
No, but think about it the other way, Jay, when they start pulling the fucking money from
selling an item or a character to another player, to another person back out onto the
credit card for daddy.
Now think about that.
How much is that going to change everything for all of these parents that their entire
lives, they've been like, oh no, video games, you can't make money doing that.
That's a free time.
You're wasting your time.
So you're saying that you're saying the other way, you're saying that when daddy looks at
the credit card statement, he's actually going to thank little, little, little, uh, little
Jimmy, little Richard.
He's actually going to thank him and be like, Hey, thank you so much for running up that
$5,000 bill without my permission.
That's what, no, I think we're talking about different days.
I think wet three games bringing the adults because the adults don't game anymore because
they have to go out and make money somewhere.
But if they can play a game and actually earn for the time, Oh dude, you know, you're going
to get more adults to start playing games.
B three.
I've got, no, no, I've got, I've got, I've got some news for the three X.
Let me, let me, let's harken back to the game show.
Let's go back to the web three specific, the web three gaming specific trade show three
I went there with the only children present, mind you, they were mine.
Cause I brought them and, uh, and I observed how they interacted with a lot of the web three
installations and interacting with a lot of the, the web three creators.
And they all treated my kids with complete and utter indifference.
That's the, that's the people that didn't treat them with disdain.
We're the ones that treated them with complete indifference.
Talk to some of the publishers there, talk to some of the builders there said, Hey, I
just wanted to give you some feedback.
What I'm seeing organically from my kids behavior is they were really drawn to this
game, that game, that display, that, that marketing footprint that you set up there.
Just head, just heads up.
You guys might be interested.
And these, a couple of these groups stared at me, dead pan, right in the eyes and said,
Oh, we don't really make our games for kids.
And then they just moved on.
They don't give a shit.
They don't care what the kids want.
There's a little bit of, um, uh, fear there as well.
There's a little bit of fear there with, uh, marketing things to children because there's
a little bit of fear there because then people start really going at you.
They want to see what you're putting out to the, they want to see it all.
They want to see every little, and then you get a microscope on you when you start selling
things to children.
So that may be a portion of, of why they're like, yeah, it's just not, it's, it's, it's
just much easier to sell something to an adult.
I can just, I mean, so here's the cheat or whatever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But here, here's the cheat code.
We used to have this thing in Hollywood called PG 13.
And before that, just PG.
And when you, and when you made films that conformed to a relatively general standard, you could
sell to everybody and you didn't make it about targeting children.
It was just selling to everybody was still that board of people that had to microscope
your butthole, check every hair on it and make sure it was PG 13.
And that's no, no, literally all you have to do is not say fuck twice.
Literally all you have to do is not say fuck twice and show more than one titty.
That's it.
That's the bar is so low and nobody wants to go there.
I remember when they went to titty.
Let me just add real quick before, before we, we proceed on, you know, our, our lovely
friend and European counterpart, owner of the largest crypto publication globally has
been patiently waiting, biting his tongue, probably cursing us out in mute.
Well, and I love that this, I love that the safe word was a fucks and titties.
Let's go.
Crypto mags.
With that, we hand it to you.
Because listen, just a little bit of history.
Well, well, there's an intro.
There's two words.
I weren't expecting to come into that intro.
Nathan's first crypto mag here, the account run by Nathan Hill, his first experience in
NFT.
I deflowered him.
So let's go, baby.
Let's go.
What we got, Nathan?
Talk to me, buddy.
Talk to me.
How you guys doing?
You all good?
What's going on, brother?
Yes, sir.
Brilliant to be here.
Brilliant to be.
I love you guys.
Yeah, and I've just been sitting here listening and so many valid points made.
Kind of Doc had, and again, Doc, I come from a very similar background to yourself, traditional
business.
By trade, I'm a business and marketing consultant.
So I look at things in a completely different way.
And like Jay Crypto just said, I was always looking at NFTs as, well, look, why would I
even want to get into it?
He kind of, the only value they have is what someone else is willing to pay for it.
And any NFT questions come up, anything I needed to know, I'd turn to these guys and say, look, I'm not an NFT expert.
Everyone's got to start somewhere.
And yeah, I actually bought a recommendation of Jay Crypto.
He recommended I go and get one NFT.
I think I bought 36 of them.
And yeah, I mean, I think they're still more than what I paid at the time.
But I think the problem, as I see it, and again, I'm very much a facts, figures, and problem-solving kind of guy.
And I think the problem that I see, and when we're running surveys, when we're talking to people, even experienced investors in Web3, and we're saying to them, kind of, do you invest in NFTs?
The answer is generally no.
Or not generally, but a lot of the times it's, well, no.
And when you ask them why, it's, well, I just don't see the value in them.
And I think the NFT industry, by its very nature, is flawed.
I don't think it's built to be sustainable.
Even down to when you look at the platforms like Rarity, like Blur, like OpenSea, the whole, everything's incentivized to go down.
So when people are selling NFTs, you put your NFT up for sale.
And now if someone needs to get that money, there's no liquidity to pull from.
So not like a token, like a coin.
So when they come to sell, the next person now has to, if they want the best chance of selling, is actually list that NFT at a lower price.
And you're constantly incentivizing the industry to go down.
And looking at this as a problem, I think until you actually solve the problems itself, you're never going to grow an industry.
And again, if you look at it globally, only 4% to 5% of the world's population have ever invested in crypto.
That's not currently does.
That's have ever invested.
Some people have jumped in, been scammed, jumped out, never to return again.
But that's Web3 in general.
And I'm unsure.
I mean, Seth and Jay Crypto and David, you guys might have a better idea of actually how many people invest in NFTs globally, percentage-wise.
But I'd really be surprised if it's even half of the total Web3 space whole NFT.
No, it's about 1%, Nate.
It's about 1%.
Yeah.
I mean, that all comes down to the perceived value, effectively, in my opinion.
It comes down to the human.
And it's much harder to calculate humans than it is to calculate numbers.
And crypto, being fungible tokens, doesn't take into account the human aspect.
So most people don't invest in NFTs because they don't understand the market.
And they don't want to deal with the mathematics and the metrics that is human.
Well, they don't invest in NFTs because there's nothing more you can use for them other than your display picture.
That's what everybody's perception of them is right now.
That's an excuse.
Now, gaming actually adopted it more.
And Web3 used NFTs and actually had a purpose for them, where there were weapons, armor, items, consumable items,
things like that, where as you're playing the game, there's an actual use case for them.
Then people are going to go to the marketplace and they're going to buy them.
They're going to be more incentivized to buy these NFTs rather than just display it as a picture.
You understand that's not understanding the – well, that's okay, by the way.
You're allowed to skip over this monetary ecosystem.
But what you're skipping over, if you're choosing to say that it doesn't have value,
what you're choosing to do is not understand digital identity and not understand representation in a value proposition,
which is okay to get towards the utility that makes sense, which is gaming.
But if you pass over the understanding of the value proposition of immutable digital identity,
you will fail as gaming.
Well, and Fiji, to your point also, Gamertags and Fiji, you bring up valuable perspectives.
There's another one as well, and that is distribution right now.
Distribution is key.
You've got Epic Games delisting Web3.
I mean, we thought we were in the clear, right?
We thought that the earliest titles like Axie Infinity and Gods Unchained
should have quite a bit of clarity surrounding their distribution.
Well, no, Epic Games just delisted Gods Unchained.
They didn't fully delist them.
They reclassified them as being for adults only because of some of the things that Gamertags you're talking about.
Even though there is no adult content there, again, there are not an excessive number of F-words,
and there's not an excessive number of areolas in their game.
They don't need to be classified as adult only.
But they are classified as adult only because you have to be able to stand legally accountable
for the value being transacted in the in-game items or any of the other digital currency or digital assets
that are being traded there.
But them doing that, it's going to drastically decrease the amount of organic exposure
that Gods Unchained gets in a gaming marketplace.
So the whole, like, the whole air quotes holy grail of making a Web3 game that normies want to play,
well, you've just effectively limited it by labeling this as something that's only suitable for adults.
It's not even rated M, right, by the ESRB ratings.
It's rated M for adults only.
Not to be a dick, but I can guarantee you, crypto already.
Good point.
This has been a running thesis in Art Basel.
But most people appreciate the dick.
Let that set it.
Oh, my God.
I was going to say, are you here in Florida, bro?
I have been in Florida, yes.
Then you came with that comment.
I'm like, you know what?
I'm not going to be here.
Yeah, you know what I love is that this fidgetal mentioning, like, bringing up his dick is actually the shortest comment he's ever made.
I am just...
Okay, okay, okay.
Let me get back to the point.
Any gaming institution that is not...
And this is...
I think this is super important.
Any gaming institution that is not deep into NFTs and understanding what drove this meta
and understand the psychology that's going to go into their games is going to find themselves at the ass end of the gaming infrastructure.
Yeah, 100%.
So, right now, a bunch of the gaming models and a bunch of the gaming companies and all of the things that are major titles and major names that are switching over to blockchain currently,
not that they have games released now, but they have land in some of these metaverses and stuff.
They do have teams that are set to build things on those and whatever and have signed contracts.
And so, there are things that are being built out, even though they're not available right now.
But all of them, from the major studios, they are not adopting a new economy model that sits well with the Web3 functions
and capabilities of smart contracts, token-gated vaulting, the actual valuation of the, you know,
cosmetic purchases versus the cryptocurrency that would be the in-game gold.
They are not adopting a Web3 new econ model to go with switching over to blockchain.
They're just taking their same model that they have now and just putting it on-chain, and that's not going to work.
So, there's a lot of things that, like, from a ground standpoint of a game, I mean, way back in, like, the 1997, 98, 99, 2000,
free-to-play and engagement being the currency of the game was a thing way back once upon a time.
It's not anymore.
And in the gaming industry, everything has shifted to a lot more subscription models, pay-to-win models, gotcha games, all kinds of different things.
But way back in the day, there was a very capable bunch of models that are still used today and taught in the virtual econ books for MIT, Harvard, Cambridge,
bunch of these major, like, schools.
Anyways, that exists, and that model is not being used for Web3 currently because it didn't work out the first time around.
But the reason it didn't work was because the game companies couldn't make any money off of anything that happened inside of the game.
They can now.
There is a way to make that possible.
And if they were to switch and actually adopt a Web3 model as any major studio, they would crush everything forever.
And literally, you don't need mass adoption if you have a game because that world has already adopted your currency.
The marketplace, all the items inside of it, all the NPCs, the consumables, the entire economy is already functioning for your token.
So all you need is a player base.
If you do it right and you build it correctly where every player earns from playing and has the ability to make money from playing and trade their characters,
all of the black market things that you do today in the gaming industry that can get you banned from a game,
you just support all of them and take a percentage of all of those trades as the gaming company instead.
Yeah, but we've seen that fail as well, though.
I mean, respectfully, we've absolutely seen that model fail as well, right?
Like Axie did not have tokenomics that would scale correctly.
No, Axie is not a free-to-play game.
Axie is a purchase-to-play game.
You have to have three Axies in order to be able to play.
Not anymore, but when they first launched and all the way up until they switched over to Ronin,
you had to purchase three Axies before you could even log into the game.
That is not a free-to-play game.
You had to pay to access.
Okay, so let's take that entirely.
I think the economic, the scaling of a free-to-play game the way that you're saying,
where there's an infinite token emission for all new players that want to enter,
but there's still some kind of a dev fee that's going back to the studio.
I think that when the market is made for that, there will be some problems there, too,
because of the inflation within that token supply.
No, no, no, no, not an infinite token.
So what you would need is you would have to quantify the token.
You would also have to quantify every single item in the game would have to have a maximum amount of anything that it could have.
Wood, stone, every metal, every craftable, every consumable, every ammunition, every single thing would have to have a quantity.
That entire database would then be put on chain, and you would have an oracle that read all of the clients for all the games.
You would need a rebase.
The numbers where they need to go.
You would need a rebase token, and you would need a stable token.
Yeah, you would.
And you would need a token that would.
It's not complicated.
Yeah, and then you need literally your token is your gold.
And then if you have a purchase model of any kind where people can buy cosmetics of any kind in the game,
all of that money goes towards the liquidity of the token.
That token for the gold has a maximum amount.
As you get closer to the maximum of the gold, just like Bitcoin has a happening,
you could have a happening in the RNG drop of the gold in the game from all the things that you do when you kill a creature,
when you loot things, when all of those things, you could literally cut the RNG drop of the gold as it goes closer to the maximum amount.
That works very well, Tripp.
But let me tell you this, okay?
Okay, I'm going to step back a little bit.
So your ecosystem works very well for a very minor, ultra, super minuscule, micro niche of a field.
Okay?
And let me just go this route.
And for three months.
Because I want you to get the grasp of this.
Because I know you and I talk about this.
We go back and forth.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So let me, and I think this is where, you know, a lot of very intellectual people miss this point.
Okay?
They miss this point quite a bit.
You said something specifically.
Yeah, they're going to grab mommy and daddy's credit card.
Okay, great.
That means that Apple and Google will have to 100% change the terms and conditions.
Not if you don't use the stores, bro.
You don't have to put your stuff on Steam and on the PlayStories and whatever.
Hey, I'm not going to do this often.
I'm not going to do this often.
But let's try to keep lines clear, guys.
We do the whole popcorn style as long as everyone lets everybody else finish.
Except for Doc and Vigil because they're fucking married.
We're good, buddy.
No, no.
But Tripp, let me get this right.
So, because look at the, look at, you can look at the revenue and market share, revenue and market share.
If your game is not mobile or console ready, the computer guys don't like us.
They absolutely hate us with a massive passion, with a massive passion.
It is like their heart bleeds to just get crypto out of here.
That's computer guys, right?
That's computer guys.
What's the computer guys' market share?
Very, you know, comparative to mobile.
Comparative to the console.
They're a little bit under the console.
But the lion's share of where all these hundreds of billions of dollars is going to come and do, we're nowhere near that.
We're eons away.
You know, now, mind you, there is one case that there are a lot of eyes on.
And that's the first.
Yeah, you can thumb all the way down, Gamertag.
I know you're a maxi of this shit, but look, you can, there's one case that there's a lot of eyes on this thing, right?
And if you guys have been paying attention, a lot of you in this audience, if you've been paying attention to this, look for Godzilla.
I am dying to see what happens.
What kind of like either massive wreckage is going to happen or what kind of thing.
Now, it is a free-to-play, open world, kind of like Battle Royale, Call of Duty Blackout or Warzone type of play, which is fantastic.
And not shilling them.
Listen, I don't have a dime in that thing.
I actually passed on them because I was kind of futted out from how they were doing their races before.
But, you know, I kind of, yeah, I missed out.
But regardless, it's still a step forward.
So I'm okay talking about them, even though I'm not invested in their ecosystem, because it's going to set the precedence for how we're going to move from here.
So, right, console, then mobile.
Mobile right now is not allowing you to freaking earn anything, right?
That what games are on mobile right now grabbing that, you know, 50% to 60% of the global market share, hundreds of billions of dollars in actual revenue of an industry, right?
Because mobile is, it's on your wrist.
We're all on, most of us are on mobile right now.
You look at where the kids are playing, where the young adults are playing, where the majority of the liquidity, what they're doing in gaming, it all comes from your hand, your device right now.
Or, yeah, that's because that's your most accessible thing, Jay.
So, like, think about, like, the Game Boy, right, way back in the day.
That did really well because kids could carry it around with them and put it in their pocket and whenever and pull out their game and play it whenever.
They didn't have to go find a computer, which was somewhere, right, at the library or in their parents' room or wherever, somewhere in the house, maybe, if they were lucky.
You know, when we were young, not everybody even had a computer at the house, right?
A lot of kids went to the library for that thing.
So, like, you're going to go to the library and play video games, like, every day?
Yeah, that's, like, cool.
Okay.
You know, so it was a little bit different way back then.
And so, like, now that games can be on your phone and you have your phone in your hand to work, right, you have your phone in your hand to take calls from your family and your friends and all these other people all the time, you check your social medias, you do all these other things on your phone, it makes a lot more sense for you to just also click an app, right?
Um, secondarily, to your point, I agree with you in the fact that mobile gaming is the actual, like, place where most of the money actually sits right now and you can make the most off of, right?
Um, because in terms of, like, from a professional gaming standpoint where you buy and sell and trade and build accounts and characters and items and things and sell them for money, uh, you could do, you do way better in mobile games, way better, uh, way better.
Items are worth way more money, um, because the people have way more money and they're used to spending more money on the game.
Um, but the reason that most of these games are not doing an engaged to earn model in any type of way through the blockchain system is specifically because if you do that, you can't launch onto, like, the Play Store or the Apple Store or the, and you, which means you're not going to get the exposure that you're going to get doing it.
Right, right, so yeah, as I mentioned before, it's the distribution, just like how you had Epic.
Those things to begin with, right?
You can still create a mobile version.
Yeah, just like how you had Epic Games delisting, uh, like, a, a legacy game now, God's Unchained.
Yeah.
You're never going to, Apple is never going to allow for anyone to cut in on their revenue share or have their revenue share threatened.
They've already, they've already delisted wallets, just wallets.
I mean, what are they going to do when, when there's entire ecosystems where you, uh, where you start bragging about whatever multi-billion dollar market caps in these ecosystems, a value locked in these ecosystems.
Do you think Apple's going to take that line down?
Hell no.
In Google.
So, okay.
But, but League of Legends is a, it was not in the Steam, right?
You, you didn't have to go to Steam to get it.
You didn't go to a marketplace to go get it.
You just went to their website and downloaded it, right?
And then League had an incentivized invite system from player to player where you and whoever you invited, and if you guys got to certain levels and did certain things in the game and played together and whatever, you all earned way more stuff and got special skins and all kinds of shit that no one else got.
And so, like, way back in the day, you couldn't trade it on a dex for four or five figures, like how you're, like, you're, you're getting some of these kids to pay profits out of play to earn games.
It's a vastly different value proposition.
Yeah, so my point is that you don't have to put it on the marketplaces if you just make it available and then have a really dope invite system in your game that benefits everybody for inviting everybody.
Technically, you don't have to put it on the Google Play Store.
You don't have to put it on the Apple Store.
That's true.
Technically, you don't, but there have been no games to date that have been able to get that same type of success.
This is, this is like, this is the one thing about, about having an aspirational talk about Web3 gaming and how it's going to compare to the current ecosystem.
Is it in the same way that, I mean, you said, oh, well, you know, mobile, they're making money hand over fist trip.
Look, that was, that was traditional wisdom in like 2010 to try to go mobile with games and then start doing in-app purchases after that.
And there, there was a huge bifurcation in the mobile and sort of like Lazy Tycoon or, you know, whatever social type gaming, idle style games where people just mindlessly click.
There's this massive chasm between, between the companies that like absolutely fold and the companies that make even any profit at all versus just living on investor money.
Um, it is, uh, it's not all sunshine and roses over there, uh, in, in, in working with mobile first, like, yes, it's a necessary component, but there's no guarantee of success.
Like just listing it and just having a referral system and just having a token this way.
I mean, it's this confluence.
If you wanted to draw a Venn diagram, it'd be like 15 fucking circles that have to overlap.
Right.
In order for this thing to really succeed the way you're, the way you're outlining it.
Like this is such an intersectional edge case.
Just real, just real quick to chime in here.
Um, I, I think that the, the nuance realistically of what we're talking about in terms of economies at scale here, when it comes to, you know, concepts of inflation in macroeconomics as an entirety, I think, I think a lot of web three has a huge portion of blame when it comes to the way that we approach the way that, uh, this type of technology would be adopted.
Um, I mean, realistically, if we think about inflation, right on a macroeconomics level, there's obviously there's a supply and then there's an aggregate of demand and the higher the demand rises, the more inflation can occur.
Um, it just so happens we already have, you know, uh, with the protocols and blockchain technology we have here and have had for many years, already measures to kind of keep this at play.
Um, I think a big portion of responsibility when it comes to adoption of gaming, uh, in the web three world needs to come from a place of how do we utilize the technology best, not for hyper profits and revenue generation events, but more so a sustainable figure.
Um, and there's a lot of fantastic IPs that are hopping into web three right now.
You, you can see fantastic studios hopping into the space that are going to be integrating, you know, blockchain technology into what they're building with some rumors.
Um, you even, you know, starting up with GTA six implementing a fantastic way to, to, to utilize this technology.
Um, I don't think that the issues that we are going to face here in web three are ever going to revolve around inflationary measures, um, unless you have a very responsible founder that is just doing disgusting things with the supply.
I don't, this is something that I don't think people should, um, have as a use case for concern.
But what I will say is this, you know, if we're going to have a mass adoption event, that is going to be something that, you know, um, will come in the form of a AAA title.
It'll be just that, um, it'll be a sophisticated team that is already using some of the tactics and practices.
For example, the axi utilized fell a little bit short on, and, uh, they're going to do it in a way where it's more play to own.
And what I mean by this is, you know, there's going to be provisions and rakes already baked into the way that the money is generated on chain.
Um, this can happen in the event of, for example, a shooter, uh, you know, let's say that, you know, uh, the, the maps themselves are tokenized in portions of them and the proceeds of the action taking place on them takes a rake.
This is things that will prevent inflation and it needs to be slowly baked.
You cannot have an all or nothing, uh, economic revenue model where people are making significant profits and have longevity in the game.
The game will die quickly.
So, you know, I, I agree with everything that everybody's saying here, and I see both sides of the aisle, but I just kind of wanted to point out the elephant in the room.
Um, and that's kind of web three has to take responsibility.
And, you know, if we're going to consider the idea of there being an ultra successful triple a title, you can't have it be a monetary system where people are going to make a shit ton of money.
You know, part of my French, um, it's just not, it's not economically feasible for the longevity of anything.
Uh, it's just not possible.
So that's all I want to say.
Yeah.
You know, you know, what's a blue ship, you know what the solution is for this.
I, I, I, I mean, I, I consult this quite a bit.
I, you know, gamer tags, he's a, he's got a product, um, that's a deal with the world of gaming.
It's not necessarily a game itself, but, um, I, I asked him this very, very near and dear question that, you know, when, when I get pinged in to, to go consult for, for tokenomics and all this.
And I, I asked him, why do you need a token or do you want a token?
And, you know, gay, gamer tags has been very, uh, you know, he's, he's, he's more on the intelligence side.
He's like, no, you know what?
You're absolutely right.
I don't, I don't need one.
And everybody else, they just have deers with the headlights.
Like, oh my gosh, I can't believe he asked that.
Why do you need a token?
Oh, no, no, wait.
You want a token.
That's what it is because you need to cash grab and pay yourself double salary.
Right.
Cause here, let me, oh, this, this is a great, this is a great topic here.
So, um, yesterday, um, over at crypto street squad, ladies and gentlemen, where we're open 24 seven, let's go voice chat.
But, um, anyways, this was late at night and, uh, we were going over it's the worst thing in the world.
So it's a bunch of old semi white people.
Oh, yo, yo, yo, yo, listen, don't, don't, don't get scared.
He got rid of you.
I ran away.
He was like, what are you guys talking about?
You guys talking about too much knowledge anyway.
So, um, it might, it might've been all the talk about titties and, and, um, I don't know.
There's some other stuff too.
Oh, it does get a little out of pocket.
Let's be very honest.
Zero alpha.
So let's look at, let's, let's look at it.
Let's look at how, um, they, cause what, what is, what is a token?
A token, basically they take, make tokenomics and they try to mirror what was done in the stock market, right?
Fractionized reserves, all these lending companies and, and whatever crypto, they copy something.
So, so worry, we haven't invented anything new, which is taking an old system and try to, you know, cash grab it on this one.
That's call it for what it is.
Let's take a look at how the salary game, right?
This is something Seth and I've talked to quite about, quite a bit about in Silicon Valley.
You go for a raise or a, a, uh, um, liquidity grab starter, fair launch, right?
Whatever, whatever you want to do.
And, um, you raise a certain amount of money, right?
What they won't, they'll show you these elaborate tokenomics where everything is, you know, team is only taking 10%, a developer is this, but it's all locked and locked and go.
What they won't show you is the statement for all of the tether that, or the USD coin that they've, that they've millions of dollars that they've received.
Why? Because you would ask the question as if, wait a minute, your team is taking 15% of the supply, but you have $30 million here and you're paying yourself with that $30 million as well.
How does that kind of go?
Oh, oh, you're, you're saying you don't work for free.
So you're going to double grab.
That's what you're doing.
And then God forbid, if there's a tax on the token, let's say for example, on a pre-sale shit coin, starter coin, whatever it is, then your tax is actually paying you as well.
So it's like a triple dip on this, right?
It's, it's, it's, it's the, the cash grabness of, of what the majority of the space has, has transferred, you know, we have evolved to.
Yeah. Jay, that broke everything, everything.
That's a fantastic.
Yeah. So Jay, to the comment on that really fast, I apologize, blue ship.
I want to, because he invoked the conversations that we have over at, over at Blocks Media Group, got a little pin post up in the Jumbotron.
Chat us up about any of the stuff if you want to, if you want to, you know, offline, convo, advisory, consulting, whatever.
But, but as far as like, yeah, the Silicon Valley model, yeah, it is triple dip.
It's quadruple dip.
It's, it's, it's dip 15 different ways.
If you can, if you can reasonably get away with it.
I mean, there are rules and regulations.
There are, there are laws regarding investment and there are laws regarding, regarding how you hold these assets and how they're awarded.
At least traditionally when it comes to the IPO, right?
Not where we're in less clear territory with, with crypto assets.
But you have plenty of startup founders in Silicon Valley who, yes, like in a, in an air quotes, lean startup are awarding themselves, you know, approaching a half million dollar salary while they're, while they're, you know, air quotes, tightening their belt and building the product.
But then also have massive options that are being awarded them.
And then also have written into their contract, a gold, functionally a golden parachute.
Like there's literally no way they can possibly lose by committing to some of the, the air quotes, lean startups.
This, this is a little bit less the case right now, but certainly in the heyday of Silicon Valley, you could show up and just mention things like just vague hand wavy terms.
Like, oh yeah, we're going to use machine learning in our, in our, in our stack.
Let me use machine learning in our backend.
There's an extra $5 million raised.
Oh yeah.
We're thinking about maybe writing to a blockchain, just casually throw it in the pitch deck.
Cool.
Another two and a half million dollars that you just raised, like basically by using the right buzzword.
Um, and so, yeah, they would award themselves massive salaries and also carve themselves off a massive chunk of equity.
And then also, yeah, if they ever had to bail out before they're, uh, before they hit their cliff investing, well, boo hoo, they have to console themselves with a huge stack of cash, um, on the way out.
But if they make it past vesting, then they get both the massive stack of cash and all of the equity.
Now, a lot of these same minds are coming in, have been in blockchain since the earliest days of there being a sort of, um, industrial blockchain block, right?
So, or like group, right?
Commercial blockchain industry as it's been growing right from the earliest cottage days.
And they've just applied the same logic.
It's just that simple.
They're like, oh, cool.
This is even better than the IPO.
It's even better than that than the equity because I can rehypothecate or I can reissue or I can do token splits.
I can do NFTs.
I can add these other digital assets.
Oh, we're doing a game.
We have all these, these rare items in the game.
Cool.
Give me some of that shit too.
And so, yeah, they're paying themselves 15 different ways.
Um, and then, and then you wonder like, wait a second, you've spoken on stages 30 times in a year.
How did you fly to every single location all around the world internationally if you're such a lean startup, right?
Like, yeah, clearly, right?
Investor, investor money.
I apologize.
I'll, I'll land up in there.
Blue ship.
Thanks for letting me ramble.
Real quick question, Steph.
How many Red Bulls have you had this morning?
Exactly.
Not enough.
Exactly.
Not enough to get down to the bottom.
I do not drink Red Bull, sir.
I, I literally measure my own.
Doc, you'll love this.
Actually, you'll, you'll, you'll really love this.
I actually drink my own reverse osmosis purified water.
No, no, no, no, no.
Doc, if you, if you think I'm not into that therapy, you're in for a treat.
Yes, exactly.
Yes.
Yes.
And every possible intervention.
No, I, I, I consume, I consume purified water with, with a, uh, a digital scale measured
caffeine anhydrous mix that I personally, there was once upon a time I wanted to do nootropics.
That's a different conversation for another time, but yes, I'm feeling very good this morning,
Doc.
We have to, we have to be careful about talking about what version of him, uh, it might look
like if he did take a Red Bull, cause we might see a derivative mean coin spinoff, but,
uh, rehypothecate all the things.
Seriously.
Let me just say something.
Don't listen.
I promise you, I have a point and reason for making that statement.
Listen, I, I think that, you know, when it comes down to, you know, the basic economic
practice that a lot of people put into the web three ecosystem very early things is something
as simple as staking.
It has a very clear economic purpose and model.
You see a, a, a, a principle where you can reinvest or re divvy into a system to increase
its security, um, make it stronger, make the network work better.
Really, you could provide any purpose you want, but the, the principle is simple.
When you have a lock-in like this, you see APRs, uh, you know, decrease.
And this is the, the, um, you know, the inflation model at play at a very micro level.
But, you know, I, I think the concern that a lot of people have, including big institutions
is not necessarily how do we utilize this, um, this technology to, you know, take advantage
of, of, of, of what's there, I think it's really kind of, uh, it's the realization that
we're still in, in, um, uh, in uninformed speculation period of web three.
I think we are still very, very early, um, you know, take a look at David Atkinson's,
for example, from, from hollow, uh, fantastic conversations being produced in, in, in protocols
for, you know, uh, creating more or less the, uh, the, the adoption principles that will
kind of set the, uh, the blueprint for allowing, uh, assets to not only just live on a game,
but live on every game.
Um, these are the, the type of innovations that will make web three gaming like really
special.
Uh, it's, it's not necessarily we're at a place that we're getting limited by, you
know, our economies of scale.
It's just, I, I think our users should have more realistic expectations.
And, you know, with that being said, you know, these phases that we go through where we
have this uninformed speculation over and over and over through bears and bulls, meme
coins, NFTs, same cut and paste strategies and technology, you know, that has already
been spoken about.
It's very harmful to our reputation.
Um, and the sooner that we start rejecting these types of, you know, quick money grab schemes,
and we understand that, you know, products take time and it's okay for founders to take
money back to, it really is fine.
It's just, what are they doing with it?
You know, and that, that is a, you know, a fantastic point that you brought up as well,
uh, there, Seth.
And I, I, I think that, you know, if we start holding each other a little, just a little
bit accountable, um, you know, these web three games that are being produced right now, they're
fun enough as is for people to play them at scale.
Um, I can guarantee you that I've, I've had the privilege of taking a look at.
Yeah.
Which, which ones?
Which ones?
Talk to me.
I feel the same way.
I need to hear some, I need to hear some of the magical games.
I also, and, and, and that are eight big graphics that are actually production value.
Okay.
Please tell me, I have not found one that isn't a try to rip off of league of legends or,
you know, rip off the classic plans or rip off.
Hey, Jay, Jay, I'll have you know that over the weekend I, I added a web three login to
Gary's mod.
So I've got all your bases covered there.
Blue, tell me, listen, it's nice to be friendly with, with other gaming, you know, cause it's
a community thing.
I under, listen, I understand.
Listen, what gaming, see, gaming is obviously has been around for a massively long time.
It kind of taught us, right.
That in crypto, right.
Us being in crypto, you need unity, right.
Because it's, you know, we're, we're, and I, I, again, talking to this yesterday in crypto
sweet squad, ladies and gentlemen, um, we are, we are, you know, obviously humans, humans
are an emotional, you know, being right.
So that emotion, regardless of how robotic you think you are, digital, you are still
emotional, right.
There, there's still some kind of, um, some kind of, um, either attraction or whatever
it is that, that comes in, that comes into, uh, into a community, right.
And when you're in a community, you're around light, either like-minded individuals, or if
you're a troll and you like the troll you're in, it doesn't matter where the spectrum of,
of, of this you're in that, that set the standard to where we are now.
Now combining those two, it's, it's just to us here, it makes sense.
You know, unfortunately the computer gamers, they absolutely hate us.
It is what it is.
That's just a perception that's there because of what CNN and Fox, whatever, whatever's
there, you know, cash grab all this stuff.
But then again, we do it to ourselves.
So if you're, if you're looking at that, yes, I like the way that, that, for example,
sunflower farm has a massive community back then.
It did, it had a massive community, right?
Um, what, what, what else is around?
There's a couple others that, that are still around that, that have a great community together.
That doesn't mean the game is fucking fun.
Sorry, the game is fun, but the community is fantastic because they're all just, you
know, they, they, they found a way to bring all those together, even though they're probably
playing other games, you know, whatever's there.
So it's, it's, again, forget the community aspect.
Let's go to the raw technical.
Give me a game that is genuinely fun to play.
And I know this is very subjective, but that is fun to play well-produced.
And, and I can do this right now in mobile and not, and not have, and not have a second,
a second thought of, you know, oh my God, bro, this is now, you know, a, uh, I'm not
going to shit on another game, but you know, this is, this is now not, not worth my time.
It's, it's there's okay.
So I'll do this.
I'll, I'll give you guys some titles that I would, I would spend some time doing some
due diligence into, and then I'll tease you guys a little bit as well on what's to come.
Um, I, I think that if you're keeping your eyes on the market, I think that, uh, what
was mentioned earlier, I think that that is a good title to keep your eye on.
What is it?
It's called Godzilla or something like that.
Um, that, that shows some promise on AAA quality.
Another title that has yet to put out any PR or really any heavy marketing that's coming
from some, some notable teams, such as mass effect, um, would be spoils of war.
This is coming from a studio, uh, called the mortal studios.
Um, that looks to be AAA quality.
Um, and I've had the privilege of having to sit down with their, with the development team.
And, um, they also have, and I can't disclose which team, uh, this developer comes from, but
one of the earliest, uh, um, blockchain technology providers, they have, uh, one of those gentlemen
working on the backend of the play to own model.
Um, and I think that's a very fascinating concept that is, that warrants some investigation
as well.
Play to own, um, not play to earn, but more or less having a model that, you know, everything
in the game can be potentially broken down into ownership models.
And that's what they're doing very well at spoils of war.
Um, so I do recommend them, um, in terms of just AAA, uh, quality, but maybe not there
yet.
Uh, a really good one to keep your eye on is going to be Hot Knife Studios.
Um, those guys are passionate gamers, uh, on base.
If you're a VC, you're looking at it, they don't come from any gaming hubs.
So you might be a little concerned about that, but there's a lot of examples like these small
guys that are at indie level that are creating pretty solid games.
Another notable worth mentioning that could end up being pretty good is Planet Quest.
Um, this is a game that's been in development now for, I believe, two and a half years.
And it's coming from, um, uh, some founders that have had some former exits, both in finance
and, uh, traditional business.
Uh, so I, I think that could show some promise.
Now, let me say this.
Um, there are big IPs in the world of web two that are starting to merge over into web three
with licenses, uh, that are lasting into about 2027.
Um, now these are titles that everybody will have heard of before.
Um, and they include, uh, you know, some of the, uh, largest entertainment industries in
the world, um, that are starting to take their IPs and consider the licensing in, in, uh, in,
in the blockchain world.
And they're not being picked up by indie developers, guys.
They're not like schmucks, like, you know, um, you know, uh, that, that want to make a
small little clicker game that are somehow for moosing these people out of their licenses.
On many occasions, they are going to be, you know, large funds for gaming purposes.
Uh, if, if you want to keep your, uh, your, your hand to the pulse, keep an eye on galactic
entertainment, they're mousing, uh, amassing a large amount of money and they are supporting
a lot of games.
And they're coming from former Disney games heads, uh, and, and other notable, um, you
know, uh, gaming industry, um, you know, titles, I suppose.
But, um, I know for a fact that those guys are going to be pushing out some pretty heavy
titles, uh, over the next five years, six years.
So there's a lot to look forward to.
Um, it's just have good expectations for yourself.
That's my only point.
You have to have reasonable expectations.
You can't get rich.
Okay.
Playing games.
All right.
I'm sorry to admit this to anyone.
I don't want to get rich.
I just want to have fun playing it while maybe a little bit of crypto or sell some NFTs.
That's all I want to do.
But it's apparently it's not what's happening.
Listen, you, you mentioned of things that are coming.
Now watch this.
There was something that came and as fast as it came, it left.
Ha ha.
That's what she said, Seth.
Anyways, that that's, um, that's one of the largest brands in all of gaming.
Ubisoft.
What did they launch?
You ever heard of Ubisoft?
Quartz?
Oh no, probably not.
Maybe you have, have no idea.
This was back in 2021, right?
They launched Ubisoft Quartz.
Holy hell.
This was a billion, multi-billion dollar gaming titan that knew what they were doing.
They milked the Assassin's Creed franchise to, to let bled dry.
People still pay it and play it in the millions.
So, you know, you figure, oh, this is great.
This is what's coming.
And then they, they're here.
And look what happens.
It absolutely wrecked.
I have to be careful what I say because I am, uh, under contract to, uh, Ubisoft licenses.
But, uh.
Yeah.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
But I, no, no.
Regardless of that, the courts, the courts, the courts, uh, the courts, uh, we can all agree that courts didn't perform the way that it was, that they thought it would have done.
There's, there's, there's, there's, there's two, there's two things at play here if I'm being brutally honest.
Right.
What I said, taken with a grain of salt.
Um, I, I mean, you have to, there has to be good due diligence of the licenses being handed out by the company that is, you know, trying to have Web3 adoption take place.
Now, I'm not going to sit here and say Ubisoft has done it wrong, okay?
Uh, even if it was true, you wouldn't hear it come out of my mouth.
Uh, but, um.
Yeah, of course.
The second arm here is like, we as the community are, are in part to blame too, because we don't need to be quick to rush just a big title.
We need to hold them accountable to what they're actually implementing.
Um, so it's a, it's a dual arm prong here.
We can't just jump on the hype wagon and equally companies can't just hand licenses out willy nilly on their IPs in hopes that they can cash grab.
Um, we need to call that shit out and we need to hold them accountable.
So, right, because look at the other, the other aspect of this, the, the Zynga co-founder in Gala, right, launched Townstar, right?
Am I finding it the right way?
Townstar is Gala's ecosystem, right?
And, um, and look at, look at the, the, the transition of a Farmville type of, you know, game, right?
Which Farmville was Facebook's, one of Facebook's largest games outside of what Zynga made.
Um, you know, and, and, you know, it was great for like a good few months, right?
Maybe five, six months, whatever it was.
Townstar nodes, fantastic investment in the beginning.
Um, not financial advice, but that's what I was told.
We have a few, um, we have quite a few, uh, of the, of the node guys that, that run it through the chat.
Yeah, but I think they changed the model from the Townstar nodes and they, they rolled it up all into Gala nodes now.
The Gala nodes.
I think they're consolidating a lot of their stuff.
Right.
Quick thing though, don't forget about metaverses.
Don't forget about metaverses.
There's an aspect of gaming and metaverses and we have some coming out pretty quick.
Like I think Star Atlas is out.
Like you can go, Star Atlas is there.
What's the next one?
Illuvium, I think, coming out.
What's happening with Web3 Gaming is the same thing to me is what's happening before Bitcoin really became fully adopted.
How many attempts were made at digital currencies before one finally made it, right?
It's, that's to me, what's happening with Web3 Gaming.
It's a very complicated, you know, structure that needs to be in place and perfected.
And, you know, we're just going through that.
I mean, Jay, you just, you, you, you, you're, you're, you're, we're too greedy, dude.
Listen, the greed of this is what's stopping us from scaling, dude.
That's why I have the models I have, Jay, man.
That's why I put them out.
That's why I wrote the articles.
Speaking of articles.
It's a, it's a fine, it's a fine balance, though.
So, I agree.
Like, like Jay's saying, if there's a financial incentive at all, even when you have some guardrails in, you, you cannot, you, you cannot guard against the mechanical Turk that eventually is built for every new game economic system.
So, you can tell yourself that you're putting, putting tokenomic guardrails in place.
Fidil brought it up earlier.
Without, without pairing that to aggressive KYC or, or digital identity, then you're going to continue to run into the same roadblock.
Rather, you're going to keep getting hit in the, in the, the, the teeth by the same two by four of some enterprising person that's got a lot of friends in Southeast Asia, uh, going and asking them to bring in 10 additional friends each to go and, uh, spam the shit out of your, your game.
And then collect the shit out of your token network to the point that you, you just, you can't beat the, uh, the economies of scale for the labor market.
So, no matter what you do, if you try to make earning the main feature, then like, like Jay's saying, I'm just agreeing in a different way.
Yeah.
Greed will ruin the ecosystem.
No matter what you, you try to put in place by way of tokenomic guardrails.
It's horrible.
You and I see it all the time.
We're, we're, we're, we're, I mean, we get approached by gaming projects left and right.
That's still, you know, unfortunately, you know, they, they were going through their long development, whether they under raised back in, you know, the end of 21 or, or beginning of 22, they didn't have the full structure that, you know, they were, they were going to hold, they were going to build this entire time.
Maybe they have launched or haven't launched.
Those that haven't launched are kind of stuck.
Now they're having to do a second, a second or third series race.
And so even in that isolated web three, that happens in gaming, even in web two.
I mean, it's tough to make a good game, but, but no, no, but wait a minute.
Yes, it is tough to make it, but how do they, wait a minute.
When you look at the aspect of web two, right.
In web two, there is no other real income, right.
Besides the raise itself, you, you're allowed for salaries and go forward here.
You got a lot of these ones that did raise.
Maybe they did launch their tokens without having the product.
The product is coming.
Then it doesn't come, but then guess what?
Now the cash grab is a token come.
And those, those specific, which I pissed off at, they ended up losing their ass off.
I mean, Animoca is, yeah.
Animoca, they've been, you know, kind of like the, the, the gaming, the, the lead gaming VC
for all of these ecosystems.
And I can, I, I, I mean, I, I was investing behind them, which is my mistake because their
portfolio was actually a whole lot larger than mine and they could really cast a massively
wide net.
So all they really need is two or three to really hit.
And then, and, uh, and then 90 other investments can go to absolute zero.
Well, who's, who's going to say which one is the two or three, right?
That that's, that's how wide they went.
And, uh, and, you know, majority of their portfolio on those games absolutely died.
And, you know, fortunately I had the pleasure of investing behind some of those and my portfolio
on those specific allocations of gaming absolutely died either bankrupt or the treasuries were
in a, Oh fuck's sake, Celsius or Luna or some kind of anchor system.
Oh my God.
It was, it was incredible.
And, and, uh, again, they're, they, they can try to supplement by pre-launching or, or
try to get, you know, getting that greed aspect of it.
And it's dude, it's, it's not, it doesn't work, dude.
It doesn't work where we're, we are very early, but then again, how do we, um, how do
we progress from here?
Right.
What's the solution here?
Cause David says, listen, you can complain all day long, right?
Which is true.
You can complain all day long.
You can just, you know, you know, until you're blue in the face, not breathing all this shit
and just get upset.
But then what are we doing about it?
Right.
What, well, we can educate, right?
Well, it just so happens I'm building a protocol to fix that.
And what?
Oh, there's the soft shield.
There's the soft shield.
All right.
No, seriously.
I don't know.
Anyway.
I think, I think education is probably the best solution here.
I mean, even just at the, the highest level of investing in web three, whether it be Bitcoin
or Ethereum, there's still a ton of people that have no idea what the hell this is.
Um, and now it gets even more convoluted if we're considering the gaming element of it,
cause they've been burnt.
They've been burnt.
So, you know, I think for me a lot, when I talk about this with gaming friends, I talk
about what excites me, the possibility of ownership a little bit more in depth.
Right now, gamers have no ownership of the actual title sitting in their steam account.
If steam servers go down tomorrow, DRM, uh, you know, technology and, and, and all that
anti-piracy stuff, it prohibits you from playing without online connectivity.
Steam goes down, your games are gone.
You don't own them.
They're already custodial.
Um, and you know, when you explain this type of custodial ownership, it starts to become
a little bit more relatable to what we're already doing in web three to adopt new users.
And then for them, the next question is, is okay, but why should I care then?
Um, well, it's simple, you know, you have exact ownership, not only of just the title itself,
but possibly even your efforts, your achievements, you know, the assets such as, you know, your
knives or your gun skins, um, imagine that at scale now, you know, and this is what I say
to try to excite some of these traditional gamer guys, imagine that at scale where now
it's applicable to everything in that publisher's ecosystem.
You can transfer those skins to any experience you want.
You're not being resold and experienced over and over and over, which is something that
is a pain point for traditional gamers right now.
The play to own and free to, excuse me, the free to play model.
Isn't all bad, but you know, there's a fine line between greed there even as well.
So, you know, I, I think just education on a level where people understand the importance
specifically to their interest is going to be important.
Um, and if you explain to them ownership, uh, they will understand very deeply because
everybody can quickly pick up on the fact that they own nothing right now and the way that
the world is moving, that's continuing to be a pace that, you know, our, uh, our economies
are adopting and it's a terrifying thought.
Blockchain technology is put in place for the people and it's decentralized so we can
have some sort of ownership without the use case of any third parties.
And this is always going to stay true and it should continuously be preached, um, and
made relevant to the interests of that individual you're speaking to.
Um, but education is just super important guys.
I, I couldn't agree with you more, Jay.
Um, I, I know you were continuing there, but I wanted to dive in real quick.
No, that's good, man.
Yeah.
I mean, that, that's, you know, for us at, at, at, you know, whatever level of, of either
influence or not, or, or, or whatever's there, I think, you know, just touch one person and
that, you know, maybe doesn't know about this or, or does know about this, but doesn't,
you know, have a direction.
And I think that education is, is, is ideal, right?
Because we're, we're, the majority of us that are here, right?
The majority.
Speaking, speaking of education, sorry for the interruption guys.
Sorry for the interruption.
I briefly, I want to add a new speaker to the panel.
I know we're coming up on two hours, but, uh, but it's so rare that we, uh, that we're,
that we're honored with Shanice best in the space.
So I'm going to put you up on stage and also NFT Godmother.
Thanks for joining us again, for coming back in.
I know we scared, we scared you off by having, by having doc and fidgetal on the panel at all,
but it's okay.
Appreciate you mustering the courage to come back.
Yeah.
So going, going back, but I'm afraid you may be forgetting my point, Seth.
Nevermind.
Well, how do you, how do you educate an industry that hasn't really, you know,
been around for very long?
And the only way to learn is through your mistakes.
Oh, this is it right here.
So doc, doc, you're a, um, uh, practicing and licensed attorney, correct?
I was going to make a joke.
I'm fidgetable.
I was going to make a joke.
I'm fidgetable, but yeah, he's got a phone call or something.
Oh, he got pissed off.
He got pissed off.
Cause he knew I was going to call on you next.
So, so doc, let me, let me ask you this.
Um, I, I don't know.
I, I know you said this before, but I don't remember the area of law you're in, but I
know you're very intelligent in, in the whole full spectrum of this.
Right.
Um, so how does, um, cause obviously we are going to need main support, right?
So that includes obviously sponsorship deals, whether it be, uh, an organization or celebrity
or something of that nature.
How did they, cause I, I, and I did look down to as well.
Um, I, I do see some, some anon accounts that, that I've helped in the past.
I'm not going to call them out, but they are run by, um, by some notable celebrities.
So I'm, I'm going to bring Titans back in, um, where, where do they, where do they fit
into this?
How, how do they protect themselves?
So they don't like, you know, kind of like Ronaldo or whoever, whoever the, the, the,
the messy or whoever else is God forbid getting sued by these, you know, people who just got
absolutely either wrecked or maybe they got in at the wrong time.
And, you know, they, now they have to go to lawsuit.
So how, how did those, you know, elites protect themselves or even organization from something
like this when, when it's like that, so they can produce out some content that does educate
someone to come in, right.
Or, or to maybe have some in open minds on our industry.
Right.
I think the, the wise celebrity or athlete is going to look at, or are there attorneys and
they're, you know, almost all of them have advisors, right.
And, uh, if, if I were in that position, if I was advising someone of that, of that stature
and nature, um, one, there has to be a use case for me as their representative to, to,
to adopt and accept that this is profitable and there's, and there's some, some real profit
in it, but, but I think the whole, the whole space has been damaged by what Sam Bankman
Freed did and the lawsuits that are coming at not just celebrities, but super, super celebrities.
Right.
Um, and I think until those cases work themselves out, right.
And we established some case, some case precedent, some case law, as they call it, where the courts
have weighed in on these questions.
Um, and there is going to be, you know, even though these cases, uh, of celebrities representing,
you know, web three or NFT projects, um, that they're each case is unique in particular,
but generally speaking, this is to my mind, this is a, is a new area of the law that'll
work itself out.
And it's going to take a while.
Um, so if, if you want to bring a celebrity on, you're going to have to figure out a way
to assure their profit participation in a way that doesn't encumber them with any sort
of, uh, legal or litigation risk.
And so one of the ways that just off the top of my head, so you caught me off guard with
the question, but one of the ways that, that you might be able to do that is, is set up
a trust account of an intermediary LLC and, and, um, um, have some ownership interest in
the LLC by that celebrity and some control.
Therefore, uh, it's going to take sort of a hybrid, I guess my, my answer is it's going
to take some sort of a hybrid, uh, creative sort of, uh, uh, contract to, to, to get around
what I think is going to be a continuing and developing legal environment around these
things.
And, and again, just another, another reason why we, we have to look at the, the industry
writ large and how is it going to be perceived by whether it's, you know, the, the, the conventional,
uh, the dollar fiat markets, security, securitizations, um, we're going to have to look at that stuff
and, and understand what the larger legal environment is going to be with a larger financial investment
environment is going to be when you go mainstream.
I mean, the entire crypto web three industry is not mainstream, right?
And purposely it's been, it's been off stream, right?
It's, it's been an alternative, but as we, as we, um, try and find ways to profit and create profit
and opportunities and new work cases for, for this industry, we're going to have to frame it in a way
that protects you legally and, and is competitive in terms of a, uh, security standpoint from, from,
you know, to the conventional markets, if that makes sense.
It's, it's, it's not, there's no, there's nothing out of the box right now.
It's going to answer your question.
I guess it's what I'm saying.
Yeah, it's not, it's not as cut and dry.
I know that it's very sensitive when it comes to, when it comes to what that legality topic.
Now, you know, obviously that, you know, shell company or, or, or whatever's there, you still
have to deal with the likeness and perpetuity.
Right.
So, so that's, that's what, uh, Dave Chappelle was stripped off of back in the day by comedy
central and CVS was, uh, you know, was his exact name and image, right?
That name and image, even though if, if, you know, if it's, if you yourself as a person,
you have to kind of think of it, you know, into, into two kind of entities, right?
You have you, you're, it's funny the way, the way this works, you are yourself, right?
You are your, your, your physical body is one thing.
And then you're in that realm, your lane, your name and likeness is a completely separate
entity, even though they don't sue the person, they sue the likeness.
So that likeness is where Matt Damon got in trouble and a lot of others, even Kevin Hart
had some trouble, you know, a lot, a lot of others are still, you know, they're, they're,
they're, you know, they got to bite the bullet, unfortunately.
That raises a thought in my mind, you know, a lot of what's going on in Hollywood over
the last, uh, writers and actors strike was a way, uh, to ensure, uh, some sort of continuing
ownership and the digital, uh, likenesses of, of celebrities, because what they're able
to do now, and, and of course, I think it's going to get much, much more advanced is, is,
uh, example, take a young Harrison Ford, uh, image out of, you know, Raiders of the Lost
Ark, uh, the original one and put it into a new movie.
And they, they did it with, uh, the Mandalorian, I think with, where, uh, uh, Luke Skywalker appeared
at the end of season one.
And people were like, ah, look at that.
But no, there's, there's a fight between the studios and the producers and the owners
of these movies and the actors and actresses and celebrities that are going to appear with
them, not just now, but long into the future to the, even to the extent that after they
pass away, their, their estates will have that control.
So, uh, really interesting stuff legally.
And, um, the law, you know, progresses very, very slowly.
And anyone who's been in court understands, I mean, it takes years for some of these cases
to work themselves through.
So it's going to be a changing legal and regulatory environment.
And the good news is everyone that's in here is in on the ground floor.
They're part of the 1%.
You know, I, everywhere I go, um, and, uh, uh, I'm meeting a lot of new people right now.
I try to tell them, you know, what spaces are going back to your, one of your original comments.
No one knows what the hell spaces are.
So we've got, there's a, there's a great opportunity, a long way to go.
You know, if you're, if you're on the ground floor, even listening to this conversation,
much less being on a stage or being a host or, uh, like we'll be in, you know,
definitely, definitely appreciate that doc.
I'm going to, I'm going to latch onto something you just said there and transition just a little
bit.
I'm going to, and if it's all right, Hey, um, Chinese profits over wages.
I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to kind of punt this one over to you.
We'll juggle a little bit, right?
We've got the soccer ball out.
We've got a little futsal, um, go action going on the tiny ball.
Right.
So it takes a little more coordination.
Doc mentioned that sometimes the legal proceedings will draw stuff out for years after the fact.
Does that mean that actually we kind of do need to chase the bag early on with projects
so that they have the means to withstand legal assault?
Like it seems kind of gray, but I think that you're, that you're the person to answer this.
So please take it away.
First off GM, how are you doing?
Welcome to the stage.
And if you can pick it up from there.
Good morning.
I don't know if you were talking to me, Jay.
My bad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was talking to you.
I called you out specifically.
No, I'll be okay.
Yeah.
Sure.
Good morning GM.
I appreciate you having me here.
Really cool stage.
So, um, in my experience in crypto, you know, for the last seven years, the number one thing
I've seen, um, by bigger companies is eventually the, the government does come after them.
I remember when Binance came out for the very first time, I think it was like seven years
ago.
We all loved it.
It was amazing.
Um, and then slowly, but surely things started to occur as they got bigger.
And I'm using this example because we all know what Binance is.
Not all of us were able to experience it very first for the first time.
I was like one of the first a hundred thousand users, but I say this to say that I, I, I agree
with that sentiment at the same time.
Um, as long as we can be, you know, not irresponsible with how we produce products and how we gain
users.
Um, yes, I, I, I can understand why you say that, right?
We live in a world where we have a big brother.
We have the elites.
We have to abide by certain laws and rules.
And sometimes they don't even abide by their own laws and rules.
Uh, so I understand why you say that, right?
We need to make money so we can have the ability to fight back.
That's the main reason why smaller, amazing businesses go out of business, right?
They don't have the money to fight back to, to, uh, to retaliate towards the things that
change.
So, uh, I do agree with the sentiment.
Obviously it's a, it's a sticky question or rather answer because I don't agree.
Everybody should just go raise, raise, raise for really stupid products because I'm sick
of that.
I'm sick of people getting burnt from, from crappy products.
Um, but I digress.
Right.
Well, and pardon the interruption.
That's, that's why I wanted to lob this one over to you.
Cause, cause I mean, you, you keep it very real for anybody in the audience here who has
not been to your spaces, right?
You've been carrying the torch for people who are like yourself, who've been in for long
enough to see more than one cycle and to see things that come and go to see things
that just outright fail.
Right.
So that's why I'm kind of curious.
It does seem like you're saying it's a gray area.
It's a slippery area.
We spent the last two hours kind of, kind of shitting on projects that we think are more
a little too cash grabby.
But at the same time, we see some of these other projects that have been like the SEC
is just having their way with them in court.
Oh, I about to interrupt.
I said, damn, I missed that, that segment.
I got to come back earlier next time.
Oh, but we got the recording profits.
We got the recording for you.
So, you know, it's ready and prime.
I'm, yeah, that's a near and dear subject to my heart.
It's all about being responsible.
I think the number one thing that I had a conversation about this week during Art Basel in Miami with,
you know, all the events, crypto events, Web3 events included, was that this is such
an easy industry, especially people that was getting onboarded.
There was a lot of people at our events that don't know about NFTs or crypto.
And the number one thing I, at least I found myself saying was this is an industry where
it's very easy to be irresponsible, to not cross your T's and dot your I's, because if
you're, especially if you're anonymous, people want to give you money.
It's just weird.
So that is why there is so much crap.
And that is why that there is so much BS that comes with the amazingness as well.
The cool products, the great products, the great tech that is also here, but it comes
with those, those others as well.
What was the attendance to the event?
Was it pretty high or?
Which one?
Mine?
Yeah, Basel.
What, how did that turn out?
I haven't heard anything.
Oh, Basel itself.
Miami, Basel is always like packed 50,000 plus people come a year.
If you mean overall as like the whole, the whole, cause it's a, it's like an art thing,
right?
There's like a huge thing.
And I was just wondering, did it still stay sold out?
I mean, not sold out, but pretty high attendance.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I think, um, since web three events are a thing now, uh, it's even more cause you have
people coming here that they've never been.
I heard a lot of, I've never been to Miami for our Basel ever.
Like I heard a lot of that as well within the crypto, uh, web three community.
You hear it every year and you hear it more and more every year too.
Cause most of these people have never come to Miami before and just, well, a lot of these
people have been locked up for a minute too.
They're, they're really just starting to get out in the world and, and they're like,
let me go to Miami, see what this is all about.
And it's, it's fire here.
We have a great time.
I still got video of you profits from like two years ago at one of the events.
It was fucking hell, hell of a good times.
Hopefully it was a good video.
It was a good video, right?
I hope so.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's great.
You know, everybody was jamming.
We were, it was a stage and the rappers were rapping.
We were all up on stage, like vibing back and forth.
And it was great.
Have you guys brought up the game of silks?
Have you spoke about that at all?
Yeah.
Yeah.
The horse racing game.
Is that what you're.
Yeah.
So I, no, we haven't.
Yeah, go ahead.
I was just going to say, I interviewed Dan and Troy before they launched.
And then the next day they sold out.
So, you know, you don't see a lot of movement on there, but you know, they did 10,000 avatars
and sold out.
And, you know, but if anybody's not aware of them, they are the first of its kind for
the blockchain in real world utility through the digital ownership of real life racehorses.
So I have one and it's been really fun to kind of watch it.
And then they also, you know, some of the other benefits that they have in that is you
can actually own some land.
Uh, you get the avatar obviously, and then you can earn, um, uh, racehorse passes and
then also, um, stabling and then there's syndication as well.
So it's pretty cool.
If anybody hasn't checked it out.
Um, I just was looking on open sea, they've got a few things open.
Um, I, it's been interesting because I've been getting package deals, um, cause I have
a kind of a rare avatar.
Um, and, uh, so lately I've been getting some package deals where somebody is offering, you
know, three or four different avatars.
And I think even some land to me, uh, but I haven't, you know, taken, I'm, I'm keeping
my avatar.
So it's been fun to watch them as well.
And they're doing a really good job of gamifying it, um, as an NFT.
I just wanted to throw that out for you guys.
If anybody had heard about them.
Someone in the community brought that up, um, when they were, um, kind of started the marketing
a little while back.
And, uh, it reminds, and for some reason I was like, there's already a horse racing on
kind of like the blockchain, but not, not, it wasn't real world.
I, I, I didn't understand it until I looked into it, but cause if you guys remember Zed
run on, on polygon, it was, you know, an amazing volume maker for, for NFT collections.
I mean, they, they, they still still running until today.
Um, and, uh, yeah, that's what I thought that this was, this was going to be, but they're
like, no, no, no, you actually get the actual horse.
I'm like, Oh, what the heck?
That's, that's pretty, uh, it's pretty awesome.
So yeah.
Tokenizing horses.
This is a, this is great.
So we're, we're, we're progressing in the right direction, right?
Maybe.
Yeah.
And I think the big thing, you know, Tony, one of the co-founders, he actually is a thoroughbred
owner and a breeder.
So it's been really cool because, you know, as a, I, my daughter's barrel race.
So, and we raised a quarter horses, it's been good to see real authentic, um, gamification
where it's not, you know, off key.
Um, they've been spot on and everything.
So, um, I think that's probably the, you know, for me as a horse owner, um, but, you know,
cause you see some of those and you're like, dude, that's not even close to it.
Um, but they've been, you know, spot on and everything.
So, um, definitely check them out if you guys are interested in gamification, uh, because
they've been, they've been fun to watch grow up and, uh, that, you know, staying strong.
See, that's amazing.
I, I, I hope, I wish that you could get in touch with the, uh, so not the, so there's
the, there's a longhorn breeders association in Texas, right?
Uh, the whole, like the whole, like ag community, it's, it's, it's this really big thing, right?
So that anybody who's not from a so-called flyover state or, uh, or who, or who spends
time on ranch properties or, or around agriculture, there's this huge industry and it's not, and
I'm not, I'll have to pull up the numbers.
NMC Godmother, you, you might have a ready figure faster than I will.
But there is so much money invested in the bloodlines of, uh, of a lot of these, these
animals, right?
A lot, a lot of these, a lot of these, uh, horses, and then a lot of these cattle as
well, depending on the, like which, um, breeders association you, you get involved with, but
they want to, like, they want provenance, right?
Of the bloodline and they want to, to breed like with, with, with other known animals, not
just racehorses, but, but other known animals, uh, for, for some of the other, other
breeding associations for animal husbandry.
Um, it's this huge thing and blockchain is such a great solution to that.
Um, in terms of adding functionality and then also having really beautiful imagery, really
beautiful art.
Um, that's, that seems like a really smart area to, uh, to enter.
Have you ever heard of anything like that?
And, and NFT godmother, you mentioned owning horses.
You'd have to have a better number at the ready than I do for, for how much people actually
spend on this stuff.
Cause it's, it's spendy.
Oh, you have no idea.
You think people spend a lot of money on NFTs.
You get into, um, the, uh, uh, genetics of breeding and everything.
It's crazy.
You know what I mean?
Like I, uh, just my parents, they were, you know, small little farmers.
They had about a hundred head and I mean, they would spend, you know, five to $6,000 on
their bowl.
Um, and you know, I mean, that was 10 years ago.
So, you know, these guys are spending, you know, tens of thousands of dollars, um, for
the, for the genetics.
Um, and I actually live on the other border.
I'm in North Dakota and, uh, it's a balmy 26 degrees here in North Dakota.
So if you guys are whining about your weather, um, don't whine to me.
Yeah, no, I, I, I like my winters above freezing.
Thank you very much.
But, um, and even in the, you know, the, the horse industry, as far as, you know, breeding,
um, you know, I mean like $300,000, uh, for buying a stud is nothing, um, you know, for
some of these larger breeders and, um, you know, I mean, there's millions of dollars too.
I mean, it's not just, you know, a hundred thousand.
I mean, they'll go up into the millions, um, because, you know, the serum they can reproduce
and, you know, those bloodlines are very, very important.
So, but I do like the idea of the cattle industry.
Um, and, uh, you know, I mean, one of the projects that I'm working on is actually, uh,
doing from a producer to the table and that's, uh, with the, um, processed meat, um, not processed,
but, you know, fresh carcass meat.
And, uh, I love the idea of being able to, you know, look at the bloodlines and actually
marketing and putting an NFT in there, you just kind of put that into my wheelhouse.
So I might add that onto what we're doing here as well.
So, but yeah, there's definitely, um, you know, with the gamification, I think it's pretty
cool that they've bringing it back to the NFT aspect of, uh, the silks.
You can also, you know, earn to play and show up at their events.
Like, so when there are, um, you know, the, the different horse races, they go to several
of them and, um, you know, you also have that community, uh, which the culture is a
big part of the NFT that I feel, um, you know, was underutilized.
People don't realize the power of community and like-minded people where you can have that
networking and that masterminding.
And, um, you know, I think that that's in the educational part, we've got to stand stronger
in, um, really putting that as a true solid asset because, um, you know, that's why we
see these large numbers at these events because people, you know, feel like they're accepted
and they're part of the community as well.
Amazing.
No, I absolutely love it.
Absolutely love it.
Yeah.
And then there's just so many elements that can be, that can be tied into a ledger.
So like you're saying the, the, just the, just transfer bill of sale title, um, the bloodline
itself, maybe even a full breakdown, right.
Of blood work and, and, uh, any other like serum, like you mentioned, there's just, there's
so, there's so much, there's so much that NFTs lend themselves to.
But the big thing is, is you can track it all, right.
Cause it's all in one system.
Now, like give you an example.
If I buy an AQHA, um, I have to send off to AKHA and get that certificate mailed to me.
They have just went online up until last year.
Um, when I sold a horse, um, everything was hand stamped mailed.
Um, you know, and it was the first time that I could actually go online and digitally request,
um, a transfer.
Cause I had a registered AQHA and, um, I sold it to somebody.
So I, you know, prior to that, I had to do everything manually.
Uh, they just went online.
So a lot of these organizations, you know, it's, it's these old duffers in there that don't
want any change.
So I think that that's been kind of the, the stop hold, you know, the, the bottleneck
of a lot of it is because they don't want to embrace the technology.
And, um, I had to kind of on another horse that I had, um, the papers didn't come with
and then the lady actually died.
So I had to go back to the original owner.
And, um, that was, you know, like a nightmare, but luckily he was an old cowboy that liked
me and ended up, you know, transferring the papers to me.
But had it all been, you know, I could have at least had it tracked and done faster, but
you know, it kind of got to be a nightmare.
Um, but yeah.
And I, one of the questions I was going to ask earlier too, why are we not seeing the
real estate, um, you know, industry coming online with this as far as ownership?
Um, I think that that, you know, I mean, there was a lot of talk about that in our rooms,
but I just haven't seen, you know, that connection yet.
And I, I wonder why that hasn't come on yet.
Well, there've been many attempts that we, so last week we talked about tokenized real
world assets where I think, um, I, I think this is, this is a little bit difficult also
when you talk about now that we're mentioning the, uh, the provenance of different bloodlines
and then potential for agriculture and tracking.
And as you mentioned, maybe farm the table, some other applications for full supply chain
management.
I think when you talk about real estate title, you have a whole different list of factors
that have to be, that have to be figured right into, into the equation.
And, um, uh, but titles, they, they should last indefinitely.
Right.
Unlike say agriculture, right.
Where at best, right.
Your horse is only going to live so many years.
And if you get one or two more than that, you're all on borrowed time.
So it is maybe has something more in, uh, in common with, with commodities, right.
And, uh, and, uh, and limited contracts where there might need to be some kind of designation
on an NFT that, that just can know that lets you know whether or not the, uh, the animal
in question, right.
Or a genealogical record, right.
Let's, you know, that the, that the individual in question is alive or dead.
Well, here's the, here's the good, here's a good point.
If you, um, let's take this other project that you, you've interviewed and, and, um, it's
actually a pretty cool idea to tokenize horses.
So, um, they obviously can go for a very astronomical value, right.
Depending on how you look at this.
Um, they're, they're also, again, in the realm of things, sorry.
And I, and I'm an animal lover.
I love all sorts of animals or whatever, but let's look at this.
It's just an animal.
So if you have one of these horses in your wallet and your wallet, let's say get fished
or, oh my gosh, I clicked on a link and you get drained.
Now you lost the horse's tokenization.
Fantastic.
You lost an animal.
That animal is still owned by somebody else, right.
But you just tokenizing it in the game's case, you kind of way.
So let's look at the real estate portion of it.
Hey, this is real property that is, um, that you actually own, right.
Well, really you're renting from whatever government you're in, but you know, let's just call it
for facade.
Let's say, you know, you, you're the owner of this real property or business or whatever's
there.
You're tokenizing this thing and you get drained.
What's going to happen?
Oh my gosh, you just, you just lost your house and now you got to move out of it.
Oh, this is great.
So yeah, that, that, that, um, you know, that part of it is still kind of, uh, if we, we
are stupid early.
I mean, it's just to the brink of it.
Um, again, I, I mentioned this last week where in my area, uh, I'm in Tampa, Florida, um, the
first ever recorded sale of a home that was tokenized as an NFT that actually happened.
But luckily nobody got drained, but regardless, they still had to go through the motions of,
of the title company and all that good stuff.
But, um, but the way they did it is that they, um, own the home through a corporation.
So that LLC, what's actually went through the transaction of the blockchain, right?
Of the, of the actual sale of, of, of the, the NFT asset.
So that NFT owned the corporation, the corporation only owned the home.
So in essence, you're just selling, transferring the, the, the business, uh, equity of it or the
ownership of it through the NFT.
Now that is a, that, that is a great idea and model, but it's, it's, it's something
that is, again, very micro niche that not everyone, right.
Let's say, for example, to the scale where all of us here for homeowners, um, where we
can start doing this right now, because why there's mortgage laws and, you know, whose
name is on a title and, and all that stuff in the U S I know in other countries too, in
Europe.
Um, if you're, if you're borrowing, uh, you know, money to, to buy the home and that
kind of deal, most people don't own their, their homes outright.
Like, so they're not able to, to kind of duplicate that and get it into corporation.
But that is, that is the first step.
So that company's name is Proppy that, that went through that, that full motion where they
sold the very first house on an NFT here, at least in the U S um, I don't know about
the buy, but I know when I, when I followed him here, it was pretty kind of monumentous
because you know, it wasn't Miami.
It was little old Tampa, right?
Tampa, well, Tampa is a young, like kind of tech kind of place, but it was, it was
something that was pretty cool.
So we're, we're moving in that direction in my opinion, right?
I'm again, I'm just a guy on the internet, but in my opinion, we are moving in the right
direction, but we're so like, we, we just, we just in, in the, in, in the ingredient of
all of this, we just barely grabbed the salt.
Right.
And there's a ton of other things to make the whole souffle or whatever the world you
want to analogy you want to use.
So, you know, that, that kind of deal does, does excite me.
Um, I'm actually about to meet someone, um, that, um, that I've gotten to known in the
space, uh, very well, and he belongs to the association here and they talk all the time
on trying to find some kind of real estate solution that can be used for the blockchain.
And they have very intelligent individual data scientists.
They have a government officials, all this stuff.
And it's just one of those same conversations that they have that it's still, you know, we're,
we're incubated really, really super early.
So it's, it's going to take a lot of, a lot of growth and pain for us to get to some kind
of maybe business or real estate.
Now there are things that are coming that NFTs will play a very big role.
And that's going to be in, um, tokenizing the, the, a profit model that goes with some
kind of real world asset business, whether it be, um, a toy factory making interest and
that, that interest is now you're able to kind of, you know, invest in that, or maybe
even a building company building a whole mess of, um, of, you know, properties or shopping
plazas all over the place that you'll be able to capitalize that, um, that, that revenue
model.
So it's coming, it's coming, but we're, we're still kind of, you know, at the very infancy
of all this kind of, kind of my notions.
Yeah.
So this is amazing.
And this is, we've kind of come full circle at this point.
I'm wondering doc and all of this conversation, have we helped to temper your boomer take on
the NFTs, do you feel better?
Um, well, I always feel better coming to the room and talking to the community.
And of course, uh, to you, Seth and, uh, Jay Crypto, I know you and Fizz will go at it
too.
It's a lot of fun.
Um, yeah, somewhat, you know, I, I, the, the fact that you guys are all enthusiastic about
it and you're, you're not quitting is, uh, is important.
So, uh, and I was just DMing you in the background.
I do have to run.
I, uh, I didn't expect we would run this long, but, uh, appreciate the invite as always.
And I'll talk to you guys later.
Yeah.
No, we're about to wrap up as well.
So thank, thank you for that.
Thanks for co-signing the space.
And yeah, but, and if you got us, or sorry, Godmother.
Yeah.
It's all fine.
Um, I just looked up just cause I want people to, uh, get honest numbers here.
So in the, um, AQHA stallion, first down dash, um, which was an earner of $90.23 million,
but it was indicted into the AQHA hall of fame in 2011.
So that's the dollar amount that, you know, some of these stallions are bringing in.
Um, and then just clarify too, on horses, they can live 25 to 30 years.
And the big reason that I want to see the NFT attached to them is, you know, I mean, I've
bought a lot of horses, um, we, you know, we had 28 horses at one time, so I've bought
a lot of horses, but to be able to track and actually know who has owned them, because
you know, you can understand some of the problems that the horses come with, if you kind of know
who the owner has been.
So, um, you know, a lot of times you're not able to really track who owned, uh, and at
what time.
So that's the big reason as, um, you know, a horse enthusiast of wanting to see the NFT
because then, you know, you do have that lineage of actual ownership.
So for what it's worth, I just wanted to throw that in there before you guys close out.
Amazing.
Thank you so much for that.
And it is very similar to that.
Like we've talked about on other spaces, the provenance for, uh, for fine art and for
some of the other, yeah, for some of the other high, like, uh, high ticket items that
people talk about tokenizing or putting on chain, tracking on chain.
Um, it seems like such an obvious fit with all of the, whatever the different animal breeding
games that we've played on chain for so long now, why not like, you know, why not up the
ante and talk about the real thing and track real bloodlines and real DNA and real ownership.
Um, that makes a lot of sense.
And I'm so glad that you came here to give us that, that context.
Oh, that's incredible.
Yeah.
So, and, and real quick, so you were talking about, uh, racing.
We, we actually, it's the craziest thing in the world.
Um, did you know that they were, uh, tokenizing, uh, hamster races on, uh, you know, it didn't
take off unfortunately, but it was the coolest thing in the world.
And I just kind of, kind of want to bring it out.
They need to do ammo, uh, is it amadillos?
Um, we don't have them up here, but I was in Texas one time and for a conference we had,
we were actually racing them.
So there's another one to add to the pot.
Amazing.
So while we're wrapping up, I just noticed Alma 777, you were brought up on stage as a
speaker.
Just want to say GM, how are you doing?
What are some of your thoughts on NFTs?
Welcome.
Oh, an NFT artist.
Yes.
Alma.
We have an artist out here.
I'm not on the bat.
What's going on?
Alma.
Hello.
Yeah.
Uh, this is Alma.
I'm so happy that I'm with you guys.
Um, um, I want to introduce myself.
It is just six days that I'm in spaces.
One year in NFT, but I had a very, very, very hard year.
Uh, I had losses.
I had two people that I loved that I, and don't have now.
And I'm, I'm better now.
It's been one month and I'm better and I'm back and I'm trying to advertise my art.
Um, I love spaces, NFT spaces, uh, that makes me more happy.
This is, uh, the first time that I'm, uh, I know what spaces are and I'm trying to advertise.
Um, uh, I want to, um, I, I love to, um, pin one of my arts to see who I am, first of
all, and talk about that if it's possible.
Um, and, uh.
Absolutely.
Please do.
Please do pin that.
We would, we would love to see that.
And, uh, and if you're open to it, anybody on stage, uh, we'd love to open it up for
any questions that anybody on stage might have for you.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Thank you very much.
Uh, I just found out how to pin.
I, I'm, uh, I go here and, uh, send me a, uh, I'm so sorry.
I have to ask you something.
How can I, how can I pin?
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Real quick before, before that.
So let me, let me ask you this.
So you're, you, you digitally draw these, um, by hand or, or do you AI prompt these?
Okay.
So, uh, yeah.
So you saw me.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Uh, okay.
Uh, okay.
Uh, I, uh, I, uh, I have been, um, an artist for more than 20 years and I do them with,
uh, hand, uh, collage and my photographies and, uh, putting some textures that I, I, I can
do, I can make.
So they're, they're a combination of all of them, uh, that comes about the, the second
one.
I'm not sure which one you're watching now.
Uh, I'm so sorry.
I'm so new.
Yeah.
Uh, um, the second one that is there is just with hands, but, um, I have with, I have mixed
media with computer and my typographies or with computer, with Photoshop and illustrator
and some just with hands.
Yeah.
Um, I need to share the post and I will right away.
Um, I go to, uh, I can't find the space to share it with.
This is the problem.
I'm so bad in that.
So, um, I don't know.
Can speakers share to the pin or I think it's only just co-host, right?
No, all speakers can, all speakers can share.
So if you, if you're pressing the share button, it should show you a one option that looks like
a little microphone and say, you can share it to this space.
So yeah.
So I go to, I go to, I go to the post and I, I go to the share and I go, I find the, yeah,
there's not, uh, I can't share it with, oh, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm sorry.
I can.
I'm happy that I could.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Uh, this is, uh, one of my just with hand, uh, collages.
And, um, I have another one.
I want to talk about them, but I need another one to be up to show you that it can be just,
uh, with the computer too, like, yeah, perfect.
Now I'm good to talk about them.
Um, uh, I do, uh, the second one is, uh, yeah, it's, yeah, it's an object.
Uh, the, let's talk about the first one, not to, yeah, the first one is, um, a mixed media
that, uh, comes with, um, just collage with some textures and typography that I used to
do like for 15 years, it feels so good to make them for me.
And I, um, and I, um, I'm selling them the, the physical ones for years, like 10 years
and, um, uh, lots of exhibitions.
And, um, this is one of them.
And I minted, uh, a few of mixed medias with the computers that I shared one of the object,
um, links.
I have to find one of them that it is not with the, yeah.
Yeah.
Let me interrupt real quick.
So, so this is more of a, it's cool that we got, um, that we're getting some art from
you.
I love, I love all things, art, things like that.
And now that you're 20 years into the, uh, into the, into the art industry, right?
So, so talk to us about your feelings about NFTs.
I mean, is this, is this something that that's kind of helped you with your progress as far
as, uh, as an artist, or do you see something else transpire with, let's say, for example,
generative art or the AI art, right?
Cause that, that's, that's something that I've always had in the back of my mind.
I haven't had a chance to, to talk to maybe someone that that's been in this, um, in the
art kind of world for, for longer than, um, you know, the computerized part of it.
So, you know, you just kind of get your thoughts on it.
Is this something that that's going to put you out of business or, or, or, are you embracing
it and kind of incorporating it together?
What, what do you, what's your feeling about that?
Um, I love that.
And I'm, I saw a lot of beautiful arts that, uh, honestly, they're, they're just artists.
They have been doing arts like two, three years and they're, they, they're making the
fantastic things, brilliant things.
And, uh, that makes people to explain them themselves and make arts very much easier and
make more professional.
So it's, it's very good to go, uh, to, uh, that part and do that.
Um, and I'm honestly trying to learn, uh, to do that kind of computer arts.
I have been in a computer art, a computer arts for like 25 years, like, um, uh, Photoshop
illustration illustrator, uh, when the Corel draw, what was there?
I don't know if you know, uh, you people, uh, no, and, and also photography, analog photography
for years.
Um, I'm not that old, but I have done that, uh, from high school and before that it's been
so long.
So, um, I love to learn and I'm going to that because, uh, people can sell and can be seen
more with that because, uh, this is the era of that.
It's, it's the time for, for being with more with computers and yeah.
And, um, I love it.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
I think we were just about to, uh, to close down the space.
We've got Fidgetal in the audience, got Action CEO, a few others who, uh, if they wanted to
request speaker, we'd pull them back up and ask any questions, gamer, gamer tags, trip,
Noah, Jay, um, NFT godmother.
Do you have any questions for Alma while she's up on stage?
We, it's rare that we get to speak to an artist, uh, and somebody who's kind of really, really
getting their sea legs in the NFT ecosystem.
But since the topic of the last, you know, two and a half hours has been whether or not
NFTs will be the next billion dollars in crypto liquidity.
Um, let's, let's give some feedback, right?
Let's give some feedback and ask some questions if anybody has any.
And if not, we will, uh, we'll taper things off in just a minute here.
But Alma, again, appreciate you joining us and letting us know, right?
That's the hardest part at first.
It's just, it's just being discovered.
Thank you very much for having me.
Yeah.
I suppose the only question that I have is, as someone who's relatively new to using the
technology, what are some things that you would like to see change in order to
get more people using it or get more artists using it?
Uh, you mean, um, if I agree with, um, having more technology in arts or I don't understand
your question, could you explain more, please?
Sure.
As someone who is new to NFTs, relatively new to NFTs and using the technology, what do
you think needs to happen as far as the technology being improved and innovated on in order for
more people like you to adopt and also use it, particularly artists?
Uh, okay.
You know what?
Um, I think, uh, we should be more, uh, both of them.
Yeah.
I, I mean that we, we should, um, we should be technology people that know a lot perfectly,
uh, how to use computer, how to use AI and, and so, and also sketch every day, read every
day, um, watch Michelangelo, we watch the, uh, the Sistine, um, the church, watch the, um,
arts of Van Gogh, um, Cezanne, uh, Brock, and, uh, I, I talk about my love, loves, yeah.
Picasso, um, this is going to improve NFT and, uh, um, both, both are needed these days because
we're, we're going up or up and up and up and up in, um, technology.
So we need both of them.
I, I see the lack of, um, old schooly, um, uh, things like reading more, uh, doing some,
some, yeah, some exploring in, um, the arts and do sketching, do something with just hands,
um, at least with procreate something, you know, that can be improved, uh, a big improvement,
I think, uh, as, as far as I feel and I, uh, experienced.
Absolutely love that.
Yeah.
The, the encouragement to, uh, to never put down the, never put down the pen, the pencil,
the brush, uh, I have a good brother or a good brother, good grief.
One of my brothers, um, I've got, I've got several, but one of my brothers who studied, uh,
classical art went on to become a, uh, a lead modeler at a visual effects studio.
So going from the, the classics, right.
And the traditional tools into fully computerized, fully digital content creation.
Um, so, uh, but having that, that grounding and that basis in strong anatomy, he told me
that when he, uh, as you mentioned hands, right.
He felt like his, one of his weakest areas was drawing hands.
Well, he drew hands for, I think a thousand days straight.
And then he felt like his, uh, like drawing human, human heads was not very good.
So he started from the skull and did various skull studies, just sketching the skull and
then imagining different phenotypes, right.
Different genetic expressions, right.
Of different races and ethnicities.
And then drawing over from, uh, from the foundation, the skull all the way out, um, and rendering
that in pencil and then trying other tools as well.
So I'll have a, have tremendous respect for what you're endorsing here that people do not
lose sight of the importance of being able to generate art as artists, right.
Without any middle layer, without any technological layer.
Um, it is a very special thing and, uh, and it's endured the test of time.
So hopefully we, we don't ever get too distracted by the newest, shiniest technology.
Um, with that, Alma, thanks for joining us.
Thanks for pinning some of your art to the top.
We, we hope that somebody in the audience is inspired to go lend financial support to
your ongoing study and, uh, and work.
So thank you for that.
And, um, yeah.
Thank you very much for having me.
Yeah.
And beautiful words.
It was so beautiful.
Yeah.
Thank you very much.
Yep.
Thank you so much, Alma.
And guys with that, we're going to, we're going to call it a space talking about NFTs.
Jay, we, uh, we did another one.
Moby media.
Thank you so much for the stage.
Noah, thank you so much for jumping back in, uh, to support and be a part of the conversation.
This for anybody who's, you know, new to the audience, maybe doesn't follow Moby media.
This is what sets them apart is that level of care and attention to detail and, and the
passion that they put into every single one of the spaces, regardless of whether they're,
they're co-hosting or not.
There's, there's absolute passion that's exuded from every one of these spaces.
So thanks for joining ours every Tuesday, 10 AM Eastern standard time.
That's 3 PM UTC.
You'll find Jay crypto myself co-hosting this on behalf of blocks media group.
And just want to thank Moby media yet again, Jay.
I think you're in the middle of a, of a meeting.
So if you can't unmute, I will understand.
And with that, we will, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll call it a space.
We'll, we'll close it out.
Glenn or Noah, whoever has Moby media access.
Thank you so much.
Oh, gamer tags is, is waving.
Are you waving goodbye?
Are you waving?
I have something else to say.
I'm waving farewell.
Well, appreciate the space as always.
Yep.
Appreciate you too.
Glenn, you can take us out and thanks so much, everybody.
We'll see you next week.
Okay.
Yeah.
Everyone for joining Moby media and we'll be back next week with blocks media group.
It's been great.
Uh, uh, listen to the discussion today with Jay crypto and, uh, Seth,
and looking forward to next week.
Take care of everyone.
Take care.
