Oh, Bcat was an off-code. Originally in Bitcoin.
Used to concatenate, which is a fancy word for join.
Satoshi Nakamoto said, hmm, that's cool. I don't know though.
Could be used to D-D-O-S. Think it's best if I remove this?
Oh, Bcat, they wanna bring you back to data sets on elements. Put it back into the stack.
Kittycat, do it be so simple. It's just ten lines of code.
It's a fuzzy soft fork like Taproot three years ago.
But some people think things shouldn't change. Bitcoin should also fly.
But the Taproot wizards have their quantum cat you can't buy.
Oh, Bcat, they wanna bring you back to data sets on elements. Put it back into the stack.
Oh, Bcat, are you just with Bitcoin legs?
Are the missiles lifting things to bring all the innovation back?
In stack size, I'ma do the join for a spell type. And if each one's stack type,
might as well do the foul type. And if each can stack type, minus one,
each one, insert, each one dot. And if each could begin, each can die.
And if stack type, minus one dot size, over five thousand, over five thousand,
return. Oh, Bcat, they wanna bring you back to data sets on elements. Put it back into the stack.
Oh, Bcat, are you just with Bitcoin legs? Are the missiles lifting things to bring
all the innovation back? Oh, Bcat, they wanna bring you back to data sets on elements.
Oh, Bcat, are you just with Bitcoin legs? Are the missiles lifting things to bring
all the innovation back? Eric, do you want me to give you one more time to sing it?
Next time, I need to practice this. Next space, I'll do a whole thing.
Okay, okay. Next space, I'll sing the song.
Okay, I thought I would give you one now, but that's okay. How are you doing tonight,
today, whatever time it is for you, Eric? You know, you remember that you told me to buy these
threaded headphones, like doing Twitter spaces with actual threaded headphones?
You mean with the wire? Yeah, with the wire. Yes.
Yeah, so I'm such a fucking time optimist that every time we're doing these spaces,
I'm like frantically trying to unbundle the tangle of those wires and get the cable
into my phone like the seconds before the spaces start, every single time.
But I'm good. I'm in Costa Rica. Really? Yeah, things are good. What are you doing there?
Actually, I was planning to meet you guys in Miami, so I was just making a stop here
and waiting to meet you guys in Miami. But I saw someone posting on Twitter that
the Taproot Wizards are fucking around, and they're listening to 1990s
rave music in the forest, and they're not releasing their quantum cats.
So now everything is postponed, and I'm stuck here in Costa Rica, basically,
waiting for you guys to meet me in Miami. So you wanted to be in our time zone? Is
that what you're trying to say, Eric? Yeah, pretty much.
Is that the point of this long explanation? That was the... Yeah.
No, it's great. It's great. Let's see, who else do everyone say? Because you're a complete idiot.
Let's see. We have Violetta. She's actually... Does she know? Does Violetta know?
Violetta, do you know? What?
I don't know. Do I? Do you know that you won?
Does she know? Yes, I know. Okay.
Yeah, we just... I don't know if that's what we were doing. So, yes, I know. Thank you so much.
I'm so excited. I never win anything. What are you talking about? This is your second Taproot
Wizards win. No, I know. I only win with you guys. Otherwise, I've never won anything in my life.
So, I don't know. Maybe it's my lucky era. I don't know. Shout out to my teammates as well.
Yeah. So, congratulations. Violetta and her team produced an amazing music video.
She's gonna... The reason she's on stage is because she's gonna sing the song later.
But they produced an amazing video and they did win a free Quantum Cat for it. We announced the
list of 20 winners just a few minutes ago. It's Nisbo, which is Eric's cat that picked all of the
winners and he's gonna handle the free cats, too. So, you should thank him. It really wasn't
our decision. He's a pretty cool cat. What's the name of his cat? We've gone over this so many
times. It changes what you can call him Nisbo. He's a Portuguese cat. So, he's like tax client
and everything. So, he's the one. Nisbo. It's actually named after a dead Swedish rapper
and then we just added the name Ball at the end. So, it's Nisbo. Yeah. So, pretty much.
It's Udi, by the way. No one ever asks, how are you doing? You never get to answer that question
yourself. Do you want to ask me? Yes. How are you doing, Udi? Well, I'm doing great. Thank you for
asking. I'm really excited about finally not delaying the Quantum Cat's mid. So, it's gonna
be tomorrow. To me, that's very exciting. Violetta, by the way, I wanted to ask, you know, I love your
music. I love your songs, but I would absolutely love to at some point hear you sing like your
Italian rendition of the Jonathan Mann song that Udi played in the beginning, like a slow-paced,
smooth, you know, like, because that one is so fat. That gets me pumped up, but I need something
that I can, you know, kick back to and relax at the end of the day, but like still, you know,
tasting the same lyrics. Do you want me to translate them to Italian? Because that would be fun.
Maybe there's a mix. Maybe there's a mix you can do, like half Italian, half English.
Be able to. Did we lose Eric? There is.
Okay, I'll work on it. Maybe I'll have it tomorrow for the minute.
That sounds like a good plan. I can't work with that. We also have on stage two cats,
Ryan Dale and Tyler, two troublemakers. Ryan Dale's already raising his hand. What's going on?
I was just trying to wave, but I pushed the wrong button because, like, there's two hand
buttons next to each other. And we have Randall's terminal enemy NVK.
How are you doing this semi-noon NVK? Are you okay? I am on the same land as Eric right now.
Where are you in Costa Rica, Eric? Don't tell him, Eric. Don't tell him. You don't know this guy.
I have absolutely no idea why I'm on the stage. I just bumped into Quantum Cat. It's a kid's
book that I read to my kids. And then somebody called me to the stage. So,
Randall is here. I feel safe. So, I figured I come up.
I don't know if I'm going to be able to pronounce it correctly. I think it's called
Guanacaste Tamarindo or something like that. I don't even know.
Oh, okay. So, you're all the way up there. No, I am where the hippies bunker coin guys are.
Okay. Yeah, there was a big rave here, like a big festival called the BPM festival. So,
maybe some of the rumors of why the cat mint is delayed. Maybe it's true. Maybe it is because
of the rave music in the forest.
I think somebody just probably did the wrong pills and forgot the keys.
This ball lost the keys. The cat lost the keys.
I wanted to ask one question that I had on my mind. Has everyone on the space watched that? I
don't know if whoever talked about it before. Pete Rizzo went on Peter McCormack's podcast and
laid out this like epic narrative for ordinals that like how it's an attack on the cryptocurrency
complex. I wasn't even aware of that. I thought that we were trolling the Bitcoin maxim list,
but it turns out that if you actually go and listen to that show, we're participating in this
amazingly strategic warfare on the entire Silicon Valley cryptocurrency complex.
I don't know if you guys had a chance to listen to that episode yet, because that was like,
that was pretty mind blowing.
I listened to some of the McCormack's notes from that episode. Does that count?
No, that takes away more than you would have learned from like not listening at all.
I thought it was a good interview. I mean, well, it was a good speech by Rizzo.
The other half of the interview was McCormack talking. I don't know, whatever. But like the
half where Rizzo was talking was, I mean, I wouldn't say that I agree with him on every
single word that he said over there, but it was a very interesting take. And I think a lot of it
is true. Like there's no doubt that a lot of kind of traditionally crypto people are now looking
much more closely into Bitcoin way more than they ever have, I guess.
I mean, do we care? Do we need the VCs?
I mean, I think it's okay if some people don't care, right? So we can be, I guess, ambivalent
to it. But obviously, for some people, it's good. Like if you're an entrepreneur who's building on
Bitcoin, then I guess you'd rather have more VC interest in lists, right?
Do you think they would invest in things that are not like Bitcoin replacement kind of projects?
I think they already are. But I mean, yeah, basically, I would say, yes, I think that if
if there's more interest in in like Bitcoin stuff from VCs, then, you know, every every
Bitcoin entrepreneur will have some benefit from that. And sure, you could you could argue that,
like, okay, the the ones who would maybe raise the most or would do the best are going to be like
some scammy pump and dumps. And maybe that's not inaccurate. But there's also there's there's
still going to be like this long tail of other types of more serious businesses that I think
will enjoy that, too. I mean, take for example, BitVm, like, I think BitVm, if if like the BitVm
people themselves wanted to raise funds, I think it'll be very easy for them to do that now.
From, you know, at a higher valuation than what they would have been able to do a year ago.
Bigger seed round or whatever round it would be. You know, that's, and that's not a shitcoin,
right? Like, so that's great. And I think a bunch of other stuff. Similarly,
there's just have better opportunities now that they had a year ago.
Okay, I think I was like, let's let's bring all the all the scams to Bitcoin, because I want all
the shit coins to die. Right. I mean, like, that's a reasonable point of view. But then, you know,
the the cats and all the JPEGs and all the shit came and it kind of sucks with the fees. But
at the same time, it is inevitable. So, you know, I mean, I don't like participating, but
it kind of, you know, it makes it I mean, you're free to do whatever you want. I,
you know, I believe in freedom. I think his point was like, if I understood
Rezo correctly, I think his point was like, look, if people are going to buy cat JPEGs,
it's better that they'll be on Bitcoin than on Ethereum. Now I, if you ask me, I have,
I have some reasons to believe that the cat JPEGs are actually good for Bitcoin. But even if you
think that's bullshit, I mean, you'd be wrong. But like, even if you think that's bullshit,
it's still I think everyone should be happier that it happens on Bitcoin than on Ethereum. I don't
know. I mean, like, listen, there's like retards on all sides, you know, like, there's a lot of
like people who have absolutely no idea how Bitcoin works. And they're like, you know,
like, very, very intense Bitcoiners. And, you know, there's a lot of like, people who are not
scammers doing dick butts on on chain, right? I mean, Rindell is a great example. So, yeah,
I mean, you know, there's all kinds of people. I mean, like, it's because money is like US dollar,
right? I mean, cartels use it. And also, like, good people use it. It's just, it's just a moral money.
Well, when all the scammers come to Bitcoin, they're gonna have to solve the problem of like,
how do we scam? Like, I need to be able to scam more people per second. So they're actually gonna
have to like work out a functional infrastructure that allows people to send them money using the
Bitcoin technology in some kind of way. So if we just like get enough of the scammers trying to
use the Bitcoin technology to scam them with it, then we get the scammers to actually work
in our favor so that they'll
and then can pick up the remains. They're running to the same problem as the Bitcoin Lattice people.
Like the Lattice people and the scammer people don't understand through
Putin, Bitcoin, and they're gonna have to find some L3, L2 solution for them.
Anyways, you said there's a lot of people who don't understand Bitcoin. I kind of pushed back. I mean,
sure there are a lot, but I've noticed in my ordinals escapades that actually most people
who interact with ordinals, one, most of them are relatively new to Bitcoin, but also two,
they seem to get Bitcoin really well. Like they understand technically what's going on
better than most kind of Bitcoin Twitter people because they interact with it a lot. So they
understand very deeply what a UTXO is. They understand what PSBTs are very deeply. They
understand the fee dynamics in the fee market very well. They actually tend to get it pretty
well technically. And also because they come from other crypto ecosystems, or many of them at least
come from other crypto ecosystems, they get the differences fundamentally between crypto and
Bitcoin. Because once they started interacting with Bitcoin in the last 12 months, it becomes
very obvious to them why Bitcoin is fundamentally different. So even if you put aside, they're like,
okay, fine. Most of the day we're playing around with ordinals and we're trading JPEGs and JSONs
cool, but they also use BTC in order to trade these and they try to accumulate more BTC by
trading these. And I think they understand fundamentally what makes BTC different from
Ethan's soul and so on. I actually feel like these guys tend to get it more than the kind of
always online laser eye Bitcoin maxis on Twitter who read a lot about Bitcoin and they consumed a
lot of podcasts about it, but they don't really interact with it a lot. I think what you're
describing is like demand side solutions and products versus supply side. For example,
if you were doing the dick butts on chain, you had to understand what's the first
sack of that transaction, right? So that you could not lose your dick butt, even though I don't
think that there's losing your ownership and all this stuff is all stupid. I'm sorry if I think
that way, but I do. But regardless of my personal sort of beliefs about ordinal theory, you have a
poor UX environment in the beginning of a technology, but you do have demand, right? Because
you do want to pretend you own those dick butts. That means you have to overcome the hurdle of
understanding, right? Like it's kind of no difference than some of the tickles here in Bitcoin
jungle, right? Like they don't care that they're not going to be able to accept sats for...
I don't know. It's Bitcoin jungle, man. Come on. I haven't been in that side of Twitter for a long
time. It's a Bitcoin jungle. Really cool. It's really cool. So essentially you can use Bitcoin
anywhere in Costa Rica, okay? Anywhere. It's based on phone number, shit. Anyways, they sort it out.
Okay. Costa Rica... Wait, Eric is there right now. Eric, do you see the Bitcoin jungle in your
concert? Download the Bitcoin jungle app, Eric. And seriously, it's quite remarkable. But the
difference here is that this is not a scam country, right? So they're not like advertising is for the
people here. But anyways, the point is it's also demand side, right? They don't care that in five
years from now, they're not going to be able to transact on Ching anymore because they're
economically irrelevant, right? But right now they're happy to accept their Bitcoin here
everywhere, especially in the south of Costa Rica. Like you can buy coconuts at the fucking beach
from some dude that like absolutely no idea what Bitcoin is. Wait, I can buy coconuts for Bitcoin
right now? Yes. Like, yes, it is quite amazing. I know it sounds weird, but yes, it's no difference
than JPEGs, I guess. Same economical value. But the point is it's demand side, right? These are
people who don't care about the Bitcoin Bitcoiner between quotes, ethos or whatever, or, you know,
the like, or any of the stuff like what they care is this shit works for me. Right. And, and,
and I need the solution. And, you know, it might just, yeah, no, I love it. I love it.
Well, I'm sorry, I killed the coconut conversation. Rob,
did you ever try to buy a coconut with, with Bitcoin?
No, I've not bought a coconut with Bitcoin.
So you're not a real Bitcoiner then.
Hey, I can send you a coconut picture and you can pay me the Bitcoin.
I buy, you know, shelters at Bitcoin Park with Bitcoin with the BTC pay terminal using Lightning.
Haven't had a payment sale yet.
So, you know, if you want, send me a picture of the coconuts that you bought. I'll
inscribe them. We can do a short run of coin type coconuts and it'll be great.
Why don't we just programmatically generate coconuts so then you can mint infinite coconuts.
Isn't that how the system works? Yeah. Now you're talking. But, you know,
like I completely agree about the whole demand side thing. The thing that got me really excited
about the Ordinal ecosystem last year was because, you know, you, you saw people willing to download,
compile and run command line rust wallets in order to interact with, you know, the speculative game
that is ordinals trading. And when there's that much demand, you can start, you know,
building stuff and iterating and trying to meet that demand and building products and services
that actually meet like real problems that people have and are willing to pay for is very different
from, you know, saying, Hey, we've got this cool bag of cryptographic tricks. Let's, let's try to
stitch them together into products that we imagine that somebody in the future might possibly want.
Right. So, you know, I'm really hoping that this next phase of Bitcoin application development is
driven way more by demand by, you know, what are the problems that people actually want to use
Bitcoin for and how do we build things to meet those problems instead of, you know, building
apps and tools that nobody actually needs, which I think is something that we've fallen into a
little bit over the last couple of years. Well, that's natural, right? Like, I mean,
almost all technology works like that. Remember, like, you know, I don't know, I don't want to
dox you, but like, you know, you're not 15 anymore, right? So like, you remember early internet days,
right? I'm not talking about like fucking like, you know, like beginning of the internet. I'm
talking about early actual internet days, internet, as most people understand, you know, almost
everything there does not exist anymore, because it was all supply side, right? Like pet.com.
You know, and it's just it's just how it works. But like, you have all the nerds,
the nerds create the tech, and then they think that the market is going to want all this cool
shit, and then they create all this cool shit, and then nobody uses it. And then comes the business
people, and the business people go and they work with the nerds to create shit that the market wants.
Right? Yep, I just heard nerds. I don't know. I just heard nerds and which which kind of
takes me to a segue. Because you said nerds, I really want to ask Eric about op cat.
How do you how do you feel about the op cat campaign in the last few weeks? Eric,
you think it's getting getting somewhere? I'm in the middle of getting lost in this
Bitcoin jungle map. I think I found a place called Malaine Snow massage where I can
pay with Bitcoin. That's pretty close. Sorry, what was your question? What I think about the op cat?
The op cat campaign? Do you think it's going to happen? What's your take?
Yeah, so we're through a few weeks into that. Is that meeting your expectations?
Tell me what you think. One thing that absolutely
was very nice to see was Jeremy Rubin himself joining the team alive. The op cat is a live team
and tweeting content that he feels like is supportive or maybe not supportive of op cat.
I think the things that he mentioned was like he referenced the blog post
of how you can do lamport signatures with op cat. He mentioned how you can do covenants
with op cat and I think he also referenced the fact that his software proposal CTV references
op cat nine times which is kind of funny because op cat is also a cat and has nine lives and the
code is nine lines of code. So even like Jeremy is on board with fucking around with op cat. I
think that pretty much everyone that understands Bitcoin at the technical level feels that there's
something that has to be done and for me the goal with op cat is not necessarily like it has to be
like this particular op code or this particular way of improving Bitcoin. I think what needs to
happen is that there needs to be something that addresses the stalemate situation in Bitcoin.
There was another thing that I listened to you know these Bitcoin op tech
Twitter spaces that they do where core devs and other important
core infrastructure builders get together and they talk about like the one of the things that
they talked about recently was the problems that they have with the current BIP process. So basically
you had Vivoria referencing the fact that you know it's really like she tried to not use vulgar
words but she was extremely upset with the fact that they're trying to like test upgrades on
Bitcoin and they can't because in order to just get like an upgrade on the Bitcoin
signet called Inquisition you have to get a bit number from this guy who apparently eats cats with
Junior and there's it feels like there it's come to the point now where there's a there's an
awakening. They actually did something Anthony Townes has now created a different process for
how to get a Bitcoin improvement proposal number. I think it was partially our fault by the way.
That they kind of have a small new process. That will make me happy if that was the case. I mean
we did we have been trying to make sure that the op cat BIP that Ethan Heilman has written.
Specifically I think it's Tyler's fault. Tyler do you have any yeah any yeah yeah I think it's
just my fault for making Bitplan. I did share I added I need to get Tristan to add this to our
website but I did I did draw the update to Bitplan the binana boat which when it's added
instead of going to the counts you'll you'll get to flip a coin and decide whether you go to the
count or just you get to take the the pleasant binana boat straight over to signet. Wait wait
I think I think we have to explain this. We have to break this down. I'm gonna break this down.
I'm gonna break this down. I think here's what I think happened. I think what happened was there's
so there's this there's this kind of Bitcoin test net that is run by a volunteer. Okay it's just
he's running it on his computer I think or somewhere and and he he just you know just does
that as a hobby and he's trying to help developers who want to test new features for Bitcoin.
And he decided just for I don't know to be orderly or for whatever reason that in order to get into
his test net that he's running he wants the the upgrade to have a BIP number. And I think he
viewed it as just some arbitrary requirement just to make things orderly and but to get a BIP number
you need to get Luke Dasher who happens to also eat cats. You need to get him to give you the
BIP number. That's just the way it works. For some reason people who propose BIPs apparently cannot
come up with their own number. They need to ask Luke to give them a number like they don't know
which numbers exist or something. I don't I don't know why but that that's the way the process
worked. But here's the trick. Luke didn't know that his expertise in picking numbers is required
in order to get features tested. Like he just he wasn't aware that that the so-called test net
Bitcoin acquisition is is kind of dependent on him assigning numbers. He just didn't know that.
So he didn't do anything on purpose. He just didn't know that it's critical for those developers to
get a BIP number. So you know he just didn't do it. And it turns out that that's like a very silly
situation because the Bitcoin Inquisition doesn't really need upgrades to have BIP numbers. And Luke
doesn't really need not to give them. It's really just a case of people not talking to each other.
They're not figuring out that there's a silly problem in the process. It's absolutely surreal.
It's surreal. It's completely surreal. It's pretty surreal. Like what happened was there's been
multiple months. I know this specifically for OpCAD but it's probably true for other potential
upgrades too that were waiting for multiple months. They were ready ready to be tested
but they were waiting to get a BIP number from Luke. So that's why they didn't start testing
for that completely arbitrary reason. And that has been going on for probably for years. So what
happened then is Tyler published BIP plan alongside the quantum cats and on BIP plan it was
visually laid out that you cannot get to test on Bitcoin Inquisition unless you have a BIP number.
And then everyone was when it was finally laid out visually in a way that's easy to see
the devs that were involved in that process were looking at it. They're like okay that's stupid.
Why are we waiting? Why are we waiting for Luke to give us a number before we can start testing
that makes no sense? And they resolved it within a couple of days. So I would say it's 100% true
that it is because of BIP plan and quantum cats that this issue has been resolved. And the one
thing that I just want to add to that is that this is not like when you want to get controversial
soft fork upgrades into Bitcoin or like do silly dick putt stuff. Like this is literally like
Gloria who's working on important packet relay stuff on Bitcoin. Like she is trying to test
her very important like non-controversial mempool optimizations. And she's like
why the fuck am I waiting for this guy to assign me a number so that I can test this code.
And I mean and that's the situation. That is like a snapshot picture of the
inefficient and like the lack of logic in the Bitcoin improvement process that we're in. Like
this is like something that is sort of endemic through the entire process of how we improve the
Bitcoin protocol. So people think that you know oh you know there's this elegant logic to the
messiness. But sometimes you know it's actually just really dumb and we have this made up numbers
that we coordinate through like these BIP numbers. But there's no there's nothing in the consensus
code that even knows about BIP numbers. It's just like a social process that became a certain way
after some people joined and some people left. I think Amir Taki was actually the person who
invented the BIP process originally. And he's not like involved anymore. It's just like the remainders
of some type of organizational structure. The dead shell of that process is still
trying to be held up by new entrants in that system. You know but I think the main problem
is that like people forget that Bitcoin is anarchy and like anyone can do whatever the fuck they want.
But like humans are inherently programmed to go ask for permission instead of just trying to do shit.
You know like and there is also the growing pains problem right. I mean this project had
you know like first like you know just a few hundred people who were working on the core software
and it was still manageable to be worked this way. It's gonna take years right like to start
this out. It's only 15 years old. You know like look for all his you know like you may call it
weird. Some people may call it cool. Whatever it is like you know I don't care about people.
Do you call it cool to eat cats? Yeah why not. I mean people eat dogs in China. So
do you eat cats? No I like I like horse tartar. Very happy horse tartar. I would say that's
very different from cats. Is it? Is it though? Yes the answer is yes. Okay fine anyways
I'll give you that. But anyways my point is like it's okay like to like be a little inefficient a
little complicated and things are gonna get sorted out. I feel like people just like bash on the shit
because it's just easy. It's an easy target. You know he made a joke about cats once and then
now he's the eating cat guy right. So it's easy to sort of go shit on him. But the guy puts a lot
of effort into Bitcoin. It's just it's just more like we just need to chill a little. Jesus Christ
people you know like go walk on grass or something. So I think we're pretty chill. I think I think
what we're trying to do is just to help improve the process where we can while while also making
fun of look for eating cats. But that that's like a secondary goal. I mean listen I have to give it
to you guys. The way you guys throw people who take shit too seriously it's quite remarkable. I mean
like it's it really is funny. I mean for for a long time with the you know I've been saying don't
don't fall for the Udi. Like don't like he's trolling you. This is the man who invented
have fun staying poor. Meme just don't like they don't listen. Even when I tell them even when I
tell them look guys I'm I'm I'm trolling you and I know I'm using the attention for my own literally
saying it. Yeah I'm telling them like guys whenever you like come at me it helps it helps
me. So just stop and even though I know that I can tell them that because I know they won't stop.
So it's fine I can I can't tell them and it doesn't matter.
Anyways I wanted to go to Donnie because he's been very patient raising his hand.
Unlike and I don't think he eats cats. No I don't I don't have something to say about that if this is
the place for it. But I raised my hand initially because earlier when you guys were talking about
people who have come over from other chains and moved on to learning about Bitcoin and have like
or trying to acquire at least a pretty deep understanding of how it works and what's going
on for the first time. You're just you were talking about me and I was wondering if you had
any questions if you wanted to play like ask an idiot about my motives or motives of people like
me. I also wanted to say that the difference in my mind and maybe just really in real life between
eating a horse and eating a cat is that cats have eyes on the front of their head and horses have
eyes on the side of their head. And if you look at most of the things that we eat that move and
breathe and they're like you know sort of like us they all have eyes on the side of their head
except pigs. I don't know man lobsters can turn their eyes and look right at you as they go into
the pot and I still eat. That's true. I feel like I now have to reevaluate every animal that I eat
and see where its eyes are. Screw that. We don't eat predators. That's the point. Sorry. Okay just
fucking eat the shit. Stop. No don't listen to this guys. So Donny I'm curious like as you've
been learning about Bitcoin what did you find interesting about it that you didn't think you
would because like I've been watching a lot of people come over especially from like the Solana
ecosystem and have one set of ideas about what Bitcoin is how it works what it's good for what
it's not good for and it's been really interesting to me to hear like the properties or the points
of Bitcoin that that they kind of latch onto and say oh this is this is interesting like I was
wrong about this or I didn't know what existed like I'm curious if you've had any any discoveries
like that. Yeah lots. I started it was probably like four years ago early pandemic when I started
just obsessively reading about blockchain like what what the concept of blockchain was why it was
invented and how it was being executed and what all these like tons of alt chains whether layer
one or layer two were trying to solve problems and there were problems that I saw in the real world
and I was just obsessed with that they were and I guess the the most exciting feature that I thought
they had was the concept of decentralization and I guess like ownership enabling true ownership of
something like like avoiding the intermediary turning turning the middleman into an algorithm
and I thought that all of the other chains I was messing around with primarily Solana actually is
where I spent most of my time dicking around I thought that solved that problem and I thought
Bitcoin was boring the Bitcoin was just like this just like antique that people found in the ground
and all still valued and like held on to because there are a lot of things like that in the world
and when you don't know why someone is selling like a million dollar coin to someone else
it looks absurd until you learn about the history of the coin and why the people want the coin or
whatever and maybe this is a bad example but it turns out that at the dawn of ordinals
at least in my understanding of things it proved to me that Bitcoin could be used to actually solve
the problems that I thought were being solved by other chains that I was you know using and talking
about and like you know doing what I would call informal research on so I think the thing what's
the switch sorry go ahead MDK yeah what did you think about the UTXO system versus the account
system that all this coins had I don't even know if I knew what that was until this past year I
didn't even know what UTXO stood for or what it was so I don't really think I thought anything
like are you stacking Bitcoin too now do you do you question actually you know this is a better
way of phrasing this do you now feel that the the altcoins or the shit coins however you want
to define them all these other coins like are still worth sort of stacking or or like because
we like all money tends towards monopoly right that's just like how these things tend to go
like do you feel this innately like you feel like you you know you probably should dump
these other things because they will lose value versus Bitcoin I think if if I were a trader which
I'm not I'm not like notoriously just bad at that I'm like the oh no fuck traders I'm asking you
because you sound like not a retard trader oh thank you that's actually the nicest thing anyone
said to me today um so I in terms of like time horizon and things I like and want more of versus
what I wanted like three years ago I was like let's buy all the Solana and Ethereum we can possibly
buy and die holding it like that was that was my idea I didn't do that but like that's what
I would want to do if you gave me a million dollars if you gave me a million dollars today
I would buy Bitcoin entirely with that million dollars and I would probably start selling off
some of it above a price target like like maybe 25 percent just in case it goes to shit 25 percent
like enough during the bull run to like make my life easier so I don't have to think about money
but I wouldn't even consider selling off the rest of the 75 percent because I now think that Bitcoin
is the future of money like as as a person who's as educated as I am which is I don't know if like
what percentile I fall into but it's become something that I it's the only thing I take
seriously at the moment how many cats would buy as many again that's a percentage of wealth kind
of thing you know like if I had 4300 dollars I'd buy one if I had 8600 dollars I'd buy two
and if I had 40 million dollars I'd buy as many as you'd let me
uh do you like you don't have to talk to just this don't answer if you don't want to
like on your daily job like is it related to this industry like what do you do this week actually I
now work full time in this industry and I've been working part time in this industry for another
layer one and a DeFi protocol over the last like three years but I've been in the restaurant
industry for 25 years full time and this literally like yesterday is my first day full time in this
space it's a lot more foul than the restaurant industry there's that's that's that's debatable
Eric did you see um Andrew Pulschner did a podcast with uh Vlad Costa and Andrew's comment
was that he believes op cat is the next soft work to happen in Bitcoin yeah look I was trying to
listen to that I was driving around in Costa Rica with the I only have 3g here so I only heard like
small snippets of what he was saying uh but no could you please uh elucidate for the rest of the
audience um I mean I know from way back that uh Andrew Polstra who is the director of research
at Blockstream and the co-inventor of Taproot um is like largely in favor of if we had to pick
one op code to soft work as the next upgrade for Bitcoin it should be op cat but did he like
elaborate a little bit as to why uh like did he lay out a coherent argument for why he feels that
now basically it's a lot of the original like points that he's made in that mailing list post
that it's only you know 11 lines of code so it's very easy to review it's a generalizable tool
um it's something that it was basically on his sequencing of things he'd want to have
like sort of like simplicity which is like 10 years out let's say but um you know he would also
say that he was hoping that eventually there would also just be first class covenant op codes like
some sort of like specific dedicated because I know um Rindell here has done an op cat covenant
and it's an ungodly sin against all of Bitcoin's script to do 26 op cats oh Rob Rob there's more
cats coming the cats are not done yet oh Jesus no oh Jesus there's there's one there's one really
interesting thing that I think about Andrew Polstra and uh in relation to op cat so uh the trick uh
of um using snore signatures to create a type of covenant is using op cat that might be like
the most you know esoteric brilliant complicated advanced thing that I think anyone has achieved
with the op cat uh op code like in the history of Bitcoin that's by far like the most impressive
thing uh that I've seen and you have all these people that are talking about like the dangers
of um of op cat like how dangerous it is but like when you talk to the people that do these
kinds of snore tricks with op cat then for some reason they're not afraid of op cat at all and
like Ethan Heilman for example and for for the people that don't know Ethan Heilman he's the
guy who wrote the uh the recent well he's many things he's he were he I don't know if he still
works but he used to work for the MIT digital currency initiative he was the one that found
the hash collisions in the iota uh self-rolled uh hash algorithm like he's a bona fide
cryptographer uh he likes op cat he wants to reactivate it so he the bip that is written
that we're now trying to get activated is um basically just rewriting uh op cat in as a tap
script op code uh and he was the reason that like he and Ethan he and Andrew Polstra are not
uh afraid of op cat is that they've been like challenging each other over the years like can
you come up with like what's the most like terrible thing that you can come up with with op cat and
they like none of them have like uh an answer to what what is the terrible thing uh with op cat
and then when you think about it okay if they're so if there's nothing terrible
and it's just nine lines of code i mean having op codes and softworks in bitcoin being very very
simple is i think that might be like an underappreciated element of when you're supposed to
choose something because a lot of these upgrades that we've had in bitcoin like segregated witness
taproot like it's difficult for uh engineers to overview what exactly is this code touching like
what are all the pieces of the code base that it's touching so when you have something that's
like very neatly encapsulated into just nine lines and it does something very simple
then i think that's that might be the reason why it's appealing i i agree with you i mean we
haven't had a single op code upgrade since check sequence verify in 2016 right to do relative
time locks which was put in place for the lightning network and in the path between now and then
there's been segwit and taproot which were massive massive overhauled changes and we have
like being able to say like hey this is a 10 line of code for cat or it's a 110 line code for like
ctv right like these are everyone like wants to compare the most recent like upgrades in the
context of like all of them are that big but they don't necessarily have to be that big i think the
the possible i'll just be i'll i'll say the possible downsides of cat would be the introduction
of mev and more advanced things i think that may already be on its way anyway i really did
appreciate eric your podcast with quart talking about like the mev ecosystem and eth and i think
that just tragically like if these things start coming to bitcoin people haven't really been
preparing for like how do you um mitigate that because it seems like whenever you try and fix
it in one part of the stack it just moves to a different part of the stack um i think that's
like the it's not a explicit this thing like breaks bitcoin it's kind of like does it shift
the game theoretic incentives of how bitcoin works and is that inevitable anyway you know
like right now we don't have to worry about mev right and and this does open the door
well that's well that's not really true that is not really true i i would really recommend
uh there's a twitter account called t4 t5 his name is tristan edwards he's one of the
he's on the team wizards he works with me he wrote actually an extremely compelling
uh blog post about why the halving block itself uh has so much mev in it now because
there are new like so casey wrote the ordinals protocol right but he's also working on another
protocol called the runes protocol which uh embeds a fungible token standard into bitcoin in sort of
a neat way instead of the junky brc20 type way but many of these things activate specifically
with the halving block so if you want to reserve a namespace in the sort of rune uh in the in the
rune token you know hallucination then you've got to be first into that halving block and there's
also you know people are trading these like rare sats now and in the halving block there's apparently
something called an epic sat so if if you as a miner if you get prior if you are the one that
actually mines the halving block then the things that you can do with these meta protocols
uh can accrue so much value that you are now like if you actually go in and read the blog post
tristam lays out an excellent case for riots i don't i don't disagree with uh with the happening
like i i totally give it to that but that's like kind of like a special moment that happens you
know every four years the the issue is you know but you're missing you're missing why it's happening
it's happening because people chose that date to launch a new protocol oh absolutely absolutely
and and people are also choosing other dates to launch new protocols this is the only one
and there there's already many opportunities you know for example whenever a brc20 token
goes through deployment and the minting process there is mev during that period if it's popular
enough but wait wait wait wait this is yeah this is not how i want to phrase this conversation
though because i actually agree with rob and ndk and i think we can if we if we can focus on the
part that we agree on which is that i mean opcat i mean there's there's there's this weird disconnect
here right you have uh and repulsor and ethan heilman saying there's nothing dangerous with
with opcat and you have like people on the bitcoin cash side that has had this opcode
activated in the bitcoin cash protocol since 2018 and you have liquid yeah okay so uh okay so let's
talk about liquid let's talk about liquid right no actually but actually i mean bitcoin cash that
there's you know there there's uh even though people don't use it that much there's still like
uh i don't know billions of dollars of coins or at least hundreds of millions that you could possibly
possibly sell if you could figure out a way to exploit that upcode but um what i find is
extremely interesting is that meanwhile there are um you know these people that understand
the opcode extremely well uh they feel like they cannot do anything that like there's there's no
danger to upgrading opcat but we know like we the people here on this stage know that actually opcat
is rather powerful because if you're able to create a covenants and specifically a recursive
type of covenant you you do open the door to be able to do more interesting i mean the reasons
that we want opcat is not because it's like this uh opcode that you cannot do anything with we want
opcat specifically because it does get us like for example opcat could be a stepping stone that
could be bring bitcoin closer to something like having zk rollups on bitcoin so it it it enables
you to emulate a type of state machine on bitcoin if you can get the covenants thing working correctly
with opcat uh so it does like open this door to like uh more expressive use cases on bitcoin and
the reason that i'm interested in that the reason that i still think that that's the direction
that's worth going in is because i think we need better layer 2 solutions we need something that
is not like requires you to have inbound channel capacity so i think if you if you are sort of
disillusioned with lightning then i don't know if there's that much else you can do then opening up
the door for something like zk rollup to excessive bitcoin can i can i put this question differently
so what because you know i like ctv right like i i wish we we would get ctv because i want to
um why like i guess like have you put some thought into how do we protect bitcoin's
economic incentives with mining with mev coming in or being exacerbated through some covenants
uh in bitcoin i guess like the idea is like what do we do then yeah so we we don't so here's the
thing so we don't we don't know for sure how we do that but here's what i do know every time that
anyone starts to talk about ctv um you meet these ogres and trolls and house gurus in the
bitcoin ecosystem that say well why don't you like go and prove out like ctv on on liquid or
something like that and what we need to establish that agreement in the community that we need
something very very narrow like ctv that is very restricted in terms of what we can do
and then we go and actually activate that or we admit that software proposals like the ones that
block streams are working on like simplicity and maybe opcat also in this bucket are too dangerous
and we're not going to pursue them simply cannot be activated is a hundred thousand diff it would
never be activated ever yes but this is this is where the conversation is bike shed right now
every time you start talking about ctv they say well no go to um go to um liquid and prove it out
there uh demonstrate that you have the demand and if you can tell those people okay well if
that's your argument what's your argument against opcat and if they don't have if the arguments that
they're using against ctv don't work against opcat then you can sort of push these people to have to
choose one way way or the other so it's um like pushing the conversations you know why i think
this is happening eric yeah i i think it's happening because there's not enough people
involved in the conversation i think it's like it's that's a symptom of having like a conversation
between like 10 nerds and instead of you know bitcoin is a what an almost trillion dollar
asset now it held by what i don't know 50 million a hundred million people around the world
it should be a conversation with way way more participants and that's i i mean i think that's
a big reason of why the conversation kind of shifted as soon as the quantum cats community
got into this because suddenly it went from 10 people talking about it to like 5 000 people
talking about it 6 000 10 000 people talking about it it's not enough i think it should be way more
i think it should be orders of magnitude more but it's a good i think it's a good start and yeah i
think i think your throat did uh make a bit of a difference but you have to remember that
unfortunately like i i tried to dissuade jeremy to do this but like he tried to to to do the
uasf for ctv when it was way too early right and and normally like when you try to to like force
something into bitcoin oh but we're not we're not we're chill man we're not trying to force anything
well we're trying to get more people talking about it sorry no no sorry you're you're understanding
me wrong like i don't that's not what i meant what i meant is that ctv sort of rubbed a little
too many people the wrong way because he was kind of forced onto people years ago so now people
sort of have to swallow their pride swallow their ego and sort of like try to accept the ctv is a
great fucking thing right and like as and as you know autistic people cannot handle that
no yeah i'm with you i think i think that's i think that's why like brute forcing and throwing
thousands of people the problem kind of helps because it it's like okay fine because you can
you know the the five autistic people can stay autistic forever unless there's a forcing function
that forces them to kind of start changing their minds or or do something because otherwise they
can just not do anything forever but i mean i think once you throw thousands of people at the problem
and you you make the cover search conversation like more accessible then um we can suddenly
talk about okay cats versus ctv maybe ctv is better you know maybe like maybe cat is just a
meme and ctv is actually a better choice i'm i'm i'm great with that yeah cool with that i mean but
in order to have the conversation you have to start having people care about it i think that's
one of the really cool things about about the quantum cats community i feel like they made
people care about up cat so here's something i have not seen is i have not like recognized yet
enough like economic nodes that are like of real sort of weight uh sort of like start signaling
you know just socially speaking towards anything if anything like the majority of of the economic
nodes that are of weight that i've talked to are all sort of like fuck i don't want any changes
to bitcoin right now and are you saying that you want us to like uh maybe socially incentivize
people to start signaling for stuff no no i i think no i think there'll be a terrible thing
right now like i i really like i really think that would would put off people in the and and
it would just cause more strife i think we we sort of like i think people are finally sort of like
dealing with the fact that like cats will be sorry not cats a dick but will be on chain
so i i think like people need time to to cope with that uh but it's coming uh but like i i think that
a polite discrete uh conversation with like you know people who have a lot to lose right like
uh in terms of like large entities holding bitcoin or like you know people people who actually have
bitcoin um in terms of like you know where do people sit on things because you know if
you were part of uasf like you were would you like you you understand like you know there's
a lot of people who are not on twitter who couldn't give less of a shit if you want cats
or if you want dick butts right it's just that like please don't screw my money right and and
like you know like where do we go from here right like i i personally want
covenants because i want to up vault because up vault is great for bunker coin right like
i can't why is it hard screwing the money though and not the developers that have had like 10 years
to do their jobs not dude like sorry like you're just you're just emotional pulling this is a
different sorry i i don't mean to be disregarding you but like i'm just making a quick point then
you can go um sorry so so like you know vaults and with ctv is very useful to anybody with like
you know a lot of coins they want to protect their coins and and you can hopefully not even
need a harder wallet anymore if we do this very well right so like to me that's essentially the
sales pitch to have covenants in bitcoin right like i i don't think the majority of the economic
value in bitcoin like really cares about either cats or or no cats uh sorry and and rent i think i
think the i love vaults and ctv i think that vaults and ctv faced the exact same problem
in that there's only 10 nerds talking about them and if we have any hope of of you know one day
making them a thing that is part of bitcoin we have to make the conversation more accessible
so that's what we've been doing with quantum cats we're trying to make the conversation more
accessible and by the way not exclusively about op cat like if you if you look through the
thousands of submissions we've had uh for the quantum cats quest many of them are actually
explaining why they think op cat is not the right choice and some of them are even talking about
other options instead of it which which we encourage i i just think that like we need to
open up this conversation it cannot be just you know five podcasters and ten quarters on github
that's not enough in order to kind of move the needle and nvk i know that you know like okay
well we just need to be patient we need to let the oddest time to to save face but i actually
don't think we have to be extremely patient you know like it's it's um i think that bitcoin should
be deliberate in the way that it's upgrading right so i mean i wouldn't expect to upgrade next week
it's bitcoin you're free like we're all free to fucking do whatever we want i just i just
want to win so like you know like if we're gonna win as a coin right like i want to like do this
in the way that's more winningful and that loses the least amount of people along the way let's
put it this way by the way the cats website i told you down on the pod before uh it was masterful
uh like really good website uh and and but i i take the take that often people don't which
is like you know it should be excruciatingly horrible for you to try to change anything in
bitcoin it should be so bad that people quit along the way and die right like it should be like
you know 40 years in the desert style kind of like trying to change bitcoin because we don't
want the bad people to change bitcoin ruin our fucking money right but anyways that that's sort
of like you know where my head is that well i'm like i think that there's something that's
really consistent with that view and what we were talking about a few minutes ago about kind of
supply side upgrades versus demand side upgrades like i think something in bitcoin that enables
fault is a huge win because you know the the use case that's found the most traction with bitcoin
is a store of value and so if you're going to use bitcoin as store of value like making it easier to
have reactive security around your coins like makes a lot of sense and i think one of the places
where the covenants discussion has had trouble is that you know you talk about like different
constructions and all these protocols that you can build and it's it's all like really abstract and
it's hard for people to connect the dots about like why should i care about ctv or apo or cat
or tap leaf update verify or whatever as opposed to like i think the thing that uh james ob did
really well was say you know vault is multi-sig security with single-sig complexity so you know i
think if we get more people talking about and thinking about not you know like what are the
theoretical constructions of these op codes but talking about what are the things that you know
that that would be valuable to do with their bitcoin and how do we you know build those and
then we figure out like what's the safest you know least disruptive way that we can add those
capabilities to bitcoin i i think that's like more productive than having like the 10 nerds get in a
room and say you know what's the what's like like how many bytes should a schmoor signature be
right and the correct answer you know should have been uh well i'm sorry schmoor key it should have
been one more than it was but like that's fine so yeah i mean i i think like vaults i think um
you know off-chain scaling stuff i think i think all of these things as more people get more
interested in them it's going to be easier to have better higher signal conversations about like what
are the trade-offs for these different approaches i think one thing that we should or could establish
is that it's it's fucking time to stop fucking around with the covenants discussion it's 2024
can we like agree that this is the moment when we actually do something and the issue that i see
here is that ctv okay yes nvk ctv could be a great software for bitcoin and i don't know if
people are even aware like the role that adam back was playing in like entertaining ctv initially
and then as soon as we got to the activation discussion like stabbed it in the back and now
when you bring up covenants adam back is talking about well we have opcat on liquid so therefore
we already have like covenants and if you want to do covenant stuff like go and do it on liquid
if if we have enough people that understand what he's actually doing there uh what he's actually
talking about what opcat is and you know people you know either widely hate it or they totally
love it then we can get across that hurdle when adam backs says no not ctv because we have opcat
on liquid if we can sort of crush that bike shedding moment where you start talking about opcat
and then we get we make full progress for ctv then i think that's a great thing like that
then we at least have some progress forward i think what we cannot do is just fuck around for
another year another year every time someone brings up ctv someone says no optx hash and if
someone says optx hash they say no op cap we cannot stay there we have etfs on bitcoin now
people are expecting this system to actually you know scale be uh internet of money and we need
covenants for that and uh something needs to like crush this stranglehold that people are trying to
put on bitcoin and eric uh question for you sorry to interrupt uh i thought it made your finishing
um what if we don't get anything because like you know you could you could like i'm just making the
point of the other side here it's like you can make the point that like you know we already have
etfs it's a great store of value right like technically we don't need anything else i mean
it's doing well then bitcoin is winning right period i mean it's obvious so like you know
what what if we don't get any covenants yeah i mean for me personally that would be a failure
of bitcoin if we cannot non-custodially scale bitcoin to like anyone who wants to use it in
in that way and have a good user experience and manageable fees then i think that okay we
invented a new asset but is that something that i'm gonna like wake up and fight for and be inspired
to to work on no i'll find another hobby i'll go to i'll go into ai or something it's just not like
significantly interesting enough in a world where like the world is changing so rapidly with new
technologies that okay there there was some uh new virtual gold which is still custodially managed
and still has the same dangers that i have another takeaway i have another take eric i i
actually for me personally i don't i don't feel like this is like a do or die moment when you
absolutely have to do covenants or bitcoin fails what i think though is that we're fucking around
and losing time for no reason we need to decide and if we're going to decide we're not going to
do covenants because the community decided it doesn't think we need it i'm fine with that that's
okay but the problem is we've been going in circles for years around this topic and around
other bitcoin upgrades because we're just incapable of making a decision and it's i i would say it
stopped being cute about like two years ago like it's it's it's too long like you can say that okay
we need to be patient whatever bitcoin moves slowly fine but it's been way too long it doesn't
make sense that it takes that long to make a decision i always give the example of like drive
chains and and poles torts pole has been working on this for eight plus years and like you still
cannot draw a line in the sand and say this is not gonna happen like this is still you know why are
we still talking about this well of course you don't like it but like why are we still talking
about this for eight years the problem i think the problem is that we there is no way in the bitcoin
discourse to know when you lost there's no way for you to tell okay because because the process
is so convoluted and fucked up that you can't you can never kind of admit admit defeat and move on
and that's bad because because we want it would be that that's how anarchy works right i mean like
yeah no one so i i i like that story but no one said that bitcoin has to be an anarchy like
anarchy is not i i don't i don't agree with you that it's a desirable outcome
and there should be like some level of progress i i just don't agree with you that the model
that we should you know maybe that's just the optimal the optimal is that so i disagree with
that maybe maybe you think it is but i disagree that anarchy is the idealistic option for bitcoin
here or look i i think that bitcoin itself as an asset yeah we we love that it's decentralized
and doesn't have leaders but the the development process either you know you can say that it's
useless and we don't need development process for bitcoin i guess that's a consistent coherent
position that you can have if you want to but if you if you think that developers are useful
and that they should be working on bitcoin or that they or that it's good that we have people
who want to work on bitcoin then then we have to admit that the way it works right now is completely
broken because they're going in circles for years wasting time on silly arguments and and
and you know flame wars online instead of you know either saying okay we're going to do this
covenant we're going to do opcat we're going to do something else or saying we're not we're not
going to do it that the community decided that we don't want it and we're going to do something
else instead but we don't do any of those two options we just keep going in circles for years
so that's why i think that pushing this like giving this like a forcing function where we
have to like if the result is going to be that everyone says hey those quantum cats are idiots
they're they're they're breaking bitcoin we need to stop them fine okay that's fine but at least
we get to a conclusion i think we really need to have a conclusion no but see that the cat is it's
a great proof of that right like sorry not the cat the jpegs right like nobody can do anything
about it and people are just coping into accepting it um you know there is a good chunk okay in my
view uh of like economic capacity in bitcoin that sort of believe that you know you shouldn't fund
that and you should because you know if you put a bunch of engineers in the room they're going to
come up with like a bunch of new shit right and and you don't necessarily want a bunch of new
shit depending on how your business works so you know there's a lot of people who think that like
maybe you shouldn't and these are not like idiots right like we're just tweeting because
you know they they have like you know a hundred thousand sets right like there's a lot of people
who believe that you you shouldn't even bother like don't fund that like you know like sure some
gardening you know like you can upgrade the client so he works on the new mac os or whatever but like
you shouldn't just you should just not spend money and effort in this and not change bitcoin
yeah i think it's a on an under an it's an underappreciated element to all of this that
these cat jpegs has caused like well not the cat jpegs themselves but the dick butts and all the
ordinal stuff has demonstrated in like the most visceral way possible to the bitcoin maximalist
that they don't have any actual say or control of their protocol um so you know after the after
the block size wars and during the uasf movement so so many of the current picks on bitcoin
maximalists came away with this like feeling that you know i'm so powerful you know i run this
the the rule set on my own node no one can like uh stop this movement and now like we're fucking
around with ordinals and they you know you have these people that think like that they are the
stewards or sort of the guardians of bitcoin and there's nothing that they can do like they cannot
filter it they cannot do anything and no matter how many tweet threads they write no many how many
podcasts they go on and complaining about this they are now understanding that actually they're
just people that sit around and complain and if you actually do want to do something with bitcoin
if you actually do want to change this in a direction that you feel is necessary then you
have to find more productive ways and that's that's basically where the confidence conversation
comes in that if you want to do something change bitcoin in some way um covenants could be a way
that you could uh change bitcoin basically and not just complaining about about oh i don't like
this or like you actually have to make a code change to make to to make the change uh that you
want to see in the world happen i mean most people don't want freedom right they just want their
version of freedom i'm gonna go to alpha sayon because he he's been raising his hand very
patiently and i'm sure he wants to say something about up cat uh no i've been waiting very
patiently um i have a lot a lot to say actually but i'll keep it very calm today uh but when is
my cat getting to my wallet i gave you like what like four thousand dollars or something like that
and i could just only see a few things like i just want to know when my cat is coming to my wallet
um but no i respect to the the great great engineering team uh i know you guys have a
great engineering team uh i'm an engineer myself if you can't tell by my fucking bio um but yeah
i just want to know who'd eat your cat are you are you is this like an application to join the
engineering team so no no no no no no i have my own engineering team actually so for those so
for those who don't know i don't think there's anyone who doesn't know i'll laugh with you but
i can't do that laugh i'll do my like uh dominican laugh while i'm in norway you're you you're in
norway right now who knows where i am okay so this is what bitcoin does to you you know so it
for those who do not know and i think probably most people do know but we we were supposed to
have the quarter cats mint last monday and uh it might have broke a little bit might have melted
down a little bit um just just a tiny bit and we eventually postpone it uh just a few times
we only postponed it a few times to um to monday so it's happening tomorrow at 12 p.m eastern
finally it's finally gonna work this time so so that's the good news um some people it sounds
like you're one of them actually have been able to mint last monday which is also kind of amazing
because the website simply did not work but amazingly 900 people still managed to mint their
cat uh last week and the answer to your question is everyone uh including people minted last week
but also people mint tomorrow all of them will receive their cats the next day so on tuesday
can i have a follow-up question yeah so your question no wait no no no no follow-up question
i have another question jesus christ you're popular jesus i can't raise my head it's so hard
no raise it back up raise it back up yeah so the reason why china number one yeah i don't
know saying number one saying number one saying number one no so the reason why you should never
do this right like when you are minting you should never spam the the min button because that's going
to delay the site but guess what as a detent i spam the uh the min button and that's what you
should actually do actually um but i'm telling you uh what is the next steps forward for taperu right
like we are talking about layer twos but i am a layer one mfer right like if i'm gonna interact
with another layer one i'm going to interact with a layer one or a layer two i'm gonna interact
with something that's already a layer one like eat or soul like what is what is the purpose of
taproot and uh uh tap do you mean top of wizards yeah yeah no yeah yeah no actually taproot wizards
let's let's say like let's put that in quotations right like if i send an email to you are you
asking about taproot or taproot wizards or both no i would if i send an email i would literally
put that in quotations i would let it be like the taproot part or the both taproot and wizards
like the taproot and then like after that i would put like wizards in like italics
like i would literally do that on purpose and underline it in bold letters like just to be
like alpha saying alpha saying i think we have a new official word mark for taproot
wizards now you write taproot and then you have to put wizards in quotation marks italics
underlined and maybe we can also like change the font to comic sans just for wizards but leave
taproot as like something that has serifs on it no but to be honest i would not be joking about
this email i would say it like this in frustration with like maybe like exclamation point dot dot
dot like what is going on like um do you guys want to be a taproot can you double can you double
click on the frustration for a minute no no no no frustration i wouldn't i wouldn't put it on i
would i would keep it like professional you know like i would like super like lean and like
it looked like i looked at the email like 40 times and wrote it like 55 times i would if i
was in your position i would once i'm done like authoring the email i would also take a screenshot
of the email and put it in the email it also took a long time to get up on the stage like
i i want to become a big cat holder and like it took a long effing time to get on the stage i
think everyone every everything that taproot wizards do is all about uh the weight you know
people have been waiting for taproot wizards for a full year people have been waiting to mint
quantum cats for a week people have been waiting to get on stage for like over an hour that that's
just the way we do things um it's kind of part of the brand jesus that sounds like a little
de-goddish to me dude you should see our weekly planning meetings they're insane you want to see
like i control all the fucking servers in fucking norway do you want to see my fucking meeting you
want to see my like you're an amazon guy so you know green mountain yeah oh my god you have like
you wouldn't even be an amazon guy oh my god randell come fucking battle my battles all right
like why do you think i have my fucking bio as i have my bio like you think i'm fucking joking
no i think you're in norway no no but like let's answer the question if if you're joking about the
bio i don't think you're joking about the bio i think you're you probably are serious about it
no way jose you're not joking
i'm serious about my bio thank you so much for having me later guys i feel like another delay is
coming delay is coming so wait answer the question how close are you udi to frank
how close am i to frank yeah frank de god it's platonic there's no romantic relationship between
the two of us that's your question are you are you a parallel to frank on on bitcoin a parallel
yeah like a parallel you like a multiverse frank oh my god you're going to the metaverse now
no like they're like they're like when they have two spider-mans
is that what you mean like there's only one spider-man but like they live in multiverse
are you frank in bitcoin udi i think frank is the frank in bitcoin
maybe frank jr but like are you frank senior i'm the frank underwood of bitcoin
does that work i have my cat but that does not work that doesn't answer the the question
are you frank senior i'm just confused this is a preposterous conversation udi is the udi of
bitcoin like that's a whole concept in and of itself like you don't need any further explanation
like you you can go and ask like who's the udi of ethereum is i think you can say the udiate of
bitcoin i'm i'm just answering like answering like or asking frank questions like like literally the
american frank you know like the honest question literally being frank yeah no like you know the
front you know like being frank you know that's like that saying in the us uh this is me going
back to boston right like you got to be wicked cool to ask these i'm being frank too yeah i'm
sorry how does any of this help ordinals let's move ordinals forward guys that's the main
question in that entire like no it's it's good i think the question was long it's because i've
been waiting for so long to ask a question so i have to come up with all this fucking bullshit
to ask a question and make udi actually feel like frank you know so like this is the this is well
to be frank uh sehan i um i i do feel like frank but i'm also the udi out of bitcoin and i think
i think that'll be fair no i wanted to get that's fair i wanted to get feel it on to get the the
song again can we can we do some singing i tried to send her uh speaking request right now but i
don't know if she's gonna accept it i think for sure like it's gonna be like uh you know she just
won a cat for the song so like i think it's only fair to perform the song but like i don't make the
rules but maybe that's why i was delayed though because you didn't want to be frank to be honest
to be yes uh is satoshi enjoy are you still didn't say anything today is there are you
shy are you being shy what's up guys um yeah i saw you trying to bring me up earlier i was like still
half asleep i took a nap i woke up in the morning and i saw that somebody's peeing in the mempool
i'm wondering when is this state sponsored attack from you guys gonna stop peeing in my mempool
i think it's uh the technical term i believe is pooping in the mempool um it's kind of like
i'm saying pooping usually they're saying shitting they sing shitting in the pool
that's an example that i've heard from multiple laser eyes actually well you know i've been
talking about shitting in the pool i don't know why yeah the the the like nice way to say it in
polite company is you're dropping off your child transactions in the pool right you're you're
dropping the the child transactions off with the mempool yeah um but to be frank a little bit uh
it was a nice conversation i i thought it's pretty ironic how like most of the bitcoiners they all
use these um cold cards and like they swear by them you know but then you have nbk over here
just talking with us and chilling with us and he doesn't see it as like too big of a deal and
he's kind of more on board to have an open conversation i was like do they do they know
like he's really more open to it than like you know they all use cold cards right
so like ritalfo comes just from an older generation of bitcoin and i think that informs a
lot of his perspective on this in that no one's in control and we're all kind of plugging along
for the ride and since he's been around for so long he's less obsessed with the tit for tat
culture war of and he and he's seen udi just judo way too many people into getting triggered and
then just pushing udi's ends to his own means i've made this point all the time that everyone who
uh makes these big declarative statements about how this is all a big scam don't do anything to
do it does nothing because none of their audience were going to buy it anyway and and then they
just get bled over into jpeg twitter and then everyone starts hate buying the cats to trigger
everyone and everyone just like realized they weren't in control and they could just like move
on and that's where ritalfo's at like ritalfo's hanging out on the beaches in costa rica buying
coconuts with his bitcoin and he's just in his zen spot and he's just he focuses on the things
that are in his control he makes really good hardware and he lets the culture war stuff like
not be like the ultimate defining thing about him and i think a lot of people have been told a
narrative about what bitcoin is and they're realizing that bitcoin no one knows what bitcoin
is and it's all anarchy and the fact that people can come along and just drop jpegs in there they
and they can't stop it they um there's a misalignment between what they thought bitcoin was
and what they were told bitcoin was and what bitcoin actually is and i think that's where you
get a lot of the uh different culture core clashes stuff instead of just letting it be
so what you're saying is basically ritalfo is like a bitcoiner but he has the eyes on the sides
of the head but not like in the front of the face so we can we and he's brazilian he's probably
taking like a fuga chao we can just like you know the picanha on ritalfo is probably amazing i think
we should cook him up i think udi also has eyes like on the side of the head like if i had to
describe him like what type of bitcoiner is it's like the bitcoiner i have a laser ears so the
lasers comes out of like my ears for some reason it's like not pretty but it is what it is i think
of you more like some of this weird ocean animal you know like a big ocean animal swimming around
with the eyes on the side of the head and like making weird whale calls to other uh
whales on the other side of the globe and basically controlling bitcoin together with the chinese
government okay i think with that you know i think that's a great way to sum up this twitter space
the the whale calls and the chinese government it's it's really like it makes a lot of sense
so i think we'll i think we'll just do that i will say however um no joke like this space is
is called no more delays and and we mean it there's no more delays tomorrow we actually do
the quantum katsaman for real there's if you want there's a pin there's a pin tweet at the top of
the space you can click it and it has the link so that you can prepare your wallet right now
because we're not delaying it again so you're gonna want to have uh your wallet prepared and
ready to mint tomorrow it's uh tomorrow 12 p.m eastern it's uh actually what it's 20 hours it's
it's a little just below 20 hours from now yeah and and like one of the pieces of feedback that
we heard from last monday right was uh there's a lot of people in time zones where you know like
a two-hour mint window for for the whitelist mint was a little bit narrow so this week the
whitelist period is five hours long so if you're you know in asia or something and you don't want
to wake up quite so early you can um get up a little bit later and still participate and get
your whitelist spot or or if you're like socially enjoy and just wake up late um that's also gonna
be helpful for you so yeah the the whitelist mint period tomorrow is for five hours from 12 p.m
eastern to five p.m eastern and then after one hour break we're gonna start the public mint at
6 p.m uh we kind of expect the public mint to go fast so i would recommend that you go to the link
like now and prepare your wallet so that you can do it faster than everyone else um it's very simple
take you a couple of minutes and you'll be ready to go for tomorrow that's it all the links that
you need are in the pinned tweet at the top uh thank you everyone for being with us today thank
you eric for uh trying to buy uh coco nut with bitcoin on bitcoin jungle whatever that is uh
thank you satoshi enjoy for finally waking up thank you tyler for um fixing bitcoin i mean
tupper was reserved also just raking bitcoin all the time but i can actually fixed a few things
um jake i i'm not even like you're obviously a state agent i'm not even i'm not even gonna go
there anyways for everyone else as well thank you uh we'll see you tomorrow uh look stay humble
stack cats that's what that's what we say here at tapper wizards and um yeah we'll chat soon
originally in bitcoin used to concatenate this is a fancy word for joint
satoshi makamoto said that's cool i don't know the to be used to ddos i think it's best if i remove
why did you stop i don't know it's so good he didn't know what op cat did so he had to stop
singing those lyrics more people let's join in let's do it together
five five the clappered wizards have their
cats to catch the codify op cat are you just for bitcoin relax them
to element to put them back against the stack op cat are you just for bitcoin relax
the missing scripting thing the game all the innovation back
you're not reading the code eric
are you just they want to bring you back do they the sets no elements put them back up on the stack
oh p cat are you just for bitcoin relax the missing scripting thing to get you bring all the