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No One Cares Until You Make It. Art Series #001
Recorded: April 19, 2025 Duration: 2:24:03Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. GM, GM, is it working here?
Can you hear me now?
Can you hear me?
Yes, it's good.
Oh, goddammit.
I hate Elon.
God fucking dammit.
Give me one minute.
I have to actually delete the post and try to actually link it to the other tweet.
Yeah, it's normal that this happens when I make my first space.
So yeah, everybody should know what they can do, how to help.
Everybody, bottom right corner, retweet the space, send in some DM groups to your friends so give me one minute I
think we have it doesn't let me even share the link in my old tweet what the
fuck is happening give me a second, we need a little music first.
Grateful, I hate you. God damn it.
Let's get back on track. So again, we are eight people in here.
Let's make it 12 and then we can start.
Very hands on deck. So conceited, she beyond the years, couple tears, couple fears, couple kisses on her stomach.
Now she crying to me like, alright, I'ma change, you the same woman.
She put a problem on what I do.
Every time I think about you.
Can't deny the burden.
Swinging for the fences.
You gotta make a fence, yeah.
Just like all your life. Who can choose? So let's get back on track. I hate it.
Yeah, welcome everybody.
Happy Eastern.
I really hope everybody is enjoying time with the family, not scrolling the whole fucking day and clicking. it's time to unfold it so i choose a little kind of clickbait title doesn't even have to mean
anything it's just like i think it's how it is but we don't care right so usually um i do spaces
where i promote my art or be with friends and i think over the last four years or even 20 years as an artist and four
years in web3 I found out that I really like to actually help more I was always think about it
but I never took the time to do it so I thought why not now and why not sharing some of the value i actually stuff i
learned or how i see things how i how i move around and how to actually try to move around
the struggle and the pain try to enjoy everything you actually experience and yeah go from there so
experience and yeah go from there so from the beginning I think I start with a little
overview who I am because I don't know if anybody in here knows who I am so yeah I'm I'm Dario
I'm Dario de Siena a Swiss And yeah, I started actually from scratch,
like really zero followers as everybody.
Also here on Twitter,
I probably had like seven followers when I started back in 2021.
And yeah, no audience, not really a lot of people who know me.
So I know many feelings other people have when it
comes to like growth and like improving and stuff and also find your audience and your collector
base so this is uh something little about me um i i had a big success in the web free space but I think we can skip this for
for later when we go to more kind of a Q&A kind of part of the whole space but
for now I like to actually welcome two artists who took the time to actually
come to the stage and be kind of my first victims when it comes to the no one cares until you make
it space so I think we start with era today women's first right I hope everybody understands
and by the way for the next spaces I'm already looking forward to new artists to feature
and to ask some stuff.
So if you're an artist, bottom right corner, retweet the space and maybe share kind of
an artwork from you and a little backstory.
So we'll get into that when the space is done and yeah, we'll appreciate it.
So let's see see give me a second
Ira are you there yes I'm here nice beginning nice yeah I will not move I will not move till
this space is finished I sit here outside on my couch because I know the best wife is here
and probably my whole family is taking the wife inside, so it's like a mess.
But anyway, yeah, let's start.
What about mosquitoes?
Aren't you bothered?
Yeah, I have like a little candle here, but I think it's worth nothing.
I'm already like kind of eaten up.
But anyway, that's fine.
That's fine.
So, yeah. How are you today i'm good and first of all i want to apologize to everyone for my english
it's what worries me the most right now i asked dario what are we going to talk about i mean
could you be more specific so i could prepare this and he said no it would be it will be natural
it's not in plan it in advance so love it or hate it we will see how it goes yeah you will do it
love it and hate it at the same time it's fine I mean you can't improve with just like people saying hey your art is amazing
your art is beautiful it's like I think it's time to actually wrap up some
things really raw really basic try to put the emotions to the side and look
into the big picture and I think we actually, I think it's a good start actually
to actually hear you as an artist, I think,
maybe say something about you,
and then I go on with the first question.
But maybe introduce you very from what you're doing
in a really short, like one minute.
Oh my God, you're going to ask me a question.
Okay, i'm nervous
so um once again i love this idea these spaces actually uh it crossed my mind as well a while
ago i mean even with my terrible english i feel that many artists struggle with telling their stories, and I wanted to help them.
So the fact that you're doing this, it's amazing.
I just thank you so much for doing this.
And about me, well, my main job is accounting.
But I've always been passionate about art.
been passionate about art. I've been doing photography for over 10 years. I
I've been doing photography for over 10 years.
started with basic and then I took numerous advances, courses, learning how
work, how light works, how color works and everything and I realized
fashion photography is what attracts me the most? I collaborated and still do with model agency
and sometimes occasionally shoot commercial.
So this is kind of about me.
And on top of this, I can say that I entered the space
not four years ago, but two years ago.
I'm really excited to hear what you can tell me about this
because I think it was completely different.
And still, I feel like I don't understand a lot.
So much is tied to context, to communities.
And what I realized is that Web3 is an ecosystem.
It's alive and very sensitive.
It reacts to everything that happens within it.
And I have to say, Web3 isn't about art 100%.
It's about relationships.
And there I said it.
You can hate me.
Never mind.
I said it.
But I just have to add that I've seen a photographer who showed celebrities and joined it by free.
And he wasn't a reply guy.
And he left because communication is very important.
It's crucial, I would say.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true but uh thanks for the introduction
really appreciate that and yeah we have relationship bad or good ones i mean i hate
and love grateful he's uh down there as a listener kind of a mess but we get used to it
um but um thanks yeah really appreciate that so that's So I think we just make one artist and then we move to the other one.
I think it's easier to not get a mess if that's okay.
Nevermore.
Do you have a minute?
Yeah, of course.
So we should continue with Ira?
Yeah, I think I go with the questions and then I think I'll jump to you.
Yeah, cool.
It's probably like 10-15 minutes.
Yeah, that's perfect.
Awesome.
I'm ready, Ira.
Yeah, so, Ira, I think this question goes for as an artist in general.
I think we are artists even if you are in web3 or in the physical
uh world we have the same problems same issues same struggles every day so um what is your
biggest struggle you face right now as an artist like what what is your daily brain looking for and what struggle is your biggest one if you can ask?
Okay I got two answers and first it's kind of not so interesting but it's
actually struggles me most. I'm from Russia and you know what's happening, you know, between Russia
and Ukraine. So it really bothers me and it really affects me in deepest level. And I cannot imagine
what's happening with Ukrainian artists. Even I struggle with this and it's not in my country. I mean, directly it doesn't happen in my country, but I feel it and I
cannot create often because of this. This affects me this much. But let's bring it back to Web3. free what struggles me here you know I have a round of people who I surround myself and I like
them and I like to communicate with them and they are kind but it's not necessarily I have to like
what they create but I talk to them every day and they're nice people, but I see their art every day and I feel that it changes me every day.
This was bothers me the most because, you know, I choose those people, but I feel like in addition, I choose their art.
art and this is important to have to say have some boundaries and realize that
you may like those people but if it changes your taste the way you look at
your art in art in general you have to have these boundaries because you know work free is
as I said it's about communication it's not always about art and some great
artists could left the place the space because they were in in a good
communication so it's not necessarily that we see the best art but good people
yes but you have to create this boundaries so It's not necessarily that we see the best art, but good people, yes.
But you have to create these boundaries.
Vera, can I jump in real quick?
Yes, yes.
Just to make it like, I really like, first, what you struggle with,
I think we don't can even imagine somehow, because I'm Swiss,
I don't really have this close as you have with the war and everything.
So sorry for that.
I think we let's let's keep it a little on the on your growth and artist side.
It's not like how you feel more like what you struggle with like getting more reach or if you have like are you
happy with you like kind of little family you built here and you're
following or do you like to expand it what is your what is your struggle there
if I can ask I have to say very tight circle of people who I really trust and really support them and they support me.
But I would love to, I have to say...
Expand.
Expand my boundaries, yes.
That's it.
Because I feel like many things have happened before I joined the space.
And they were really important. And I still don't understand what has happened. And I the space. And they were really important.
And I still don't understand what has happened.
And I want to see more.
Tell me one thing.
What happened, what was really important?
For example, it's a big one.
And everyone knows it.
But Kazoma Medici and XCOPI.
Stuff like this.
It happened in the past,
but I wasn't here.
I haven't seen...
But we talk about you now,
we don't talk about XCopy.
Yes, but I feel like...
You feel you missed out on time?
I feel...
Like at the wrong time in the space?
No, I feel this place
tends to be about trends a lot.
And some trends I missed and I don't understand them.
Yeah, I mean, making the web free space understandable for someone,
it's like really difficult.
Even I am four years in this space and i don't get it
sometimes i'm on the like i was two weeks away from the timeline and and a check x and it's like
what the fuck is happening but i think you really need to actually kind of sit back and and look at
your stuff look at what you do and how you can improve.
It's like if you have to improve with not being too much on Twitter
and not checking everything every day and this keeps you in your safe space,
it's probably much better than always try to chase everything which is happening.
then always try to chase everything which is happening.
It's just impossible and it distracts you from actually working on your skill set
and how you like to build your brand and everything.
Exactly, exactly.
And you see this kind of wisdom we want to hear.
We go through the same.
I mean, there is like meme coins and there are like whatever launches which distracts you because you thought this is probably crap and then it's flying.
And you as an artist, it's like sometimes it's hard to see this.
But I think we just need to understand that if something in this space happens and there is a success,
it's also a success for us because we are in this space and we are the ones who are early in this space.
So if they win, it's somehow also a win for us.
And if the biggest one fails, it also hurts us.
So I think don't take it too emotional or too personal
and just go with the flow which you have
and not the flow of the timeline
because nobody can keep up with this.
That's impossible.
I mean, I'm a father, I'm an artist,
I have two kids, I have a wife,
I have a real-life day job, 60% as graphic designer.
And I was doing the Web3 grind a lot, like 24-7, coming back home, going to work at 9pm till 5 in the morning in Web3,
and then get up at 8 and go work the whole day also as a father can distract you so
it's it's good to actually work your ass off for a couple of months or as long as you can
for reaching a new goal and then sit back and relax and reflect and and also really take time off it's like that that's necessary
but um thanks for for the first answer i think uh you just answered my question i had a question
for you like what do we have to do like you have 50k followers so i have only two KK. I cannot afford
myself to... We come to the
questions at the end of the space.
So let's reset the room real quick.
You already answered this.
Yeah, I really appreciate you.
And your English is great. I think
my English sucks. I was away
for six months and now I think I can't
even find any words anymore.
So we'll see how this goes.
But for everybody who joined new,
please, bottom right corner,
retweet the space and if you're an artist
who'd like to be featured on
the next space, drop a little
piece of yours
in the comments and
maybe a little backstory
will be appreciated.
yeah, let's see.
So what is your goal, let's say, as an artist in general?
Is it a hobby?
Do you think you'd like to make a living from it?
What is your biggest goal?
Let's go with the biggest one.
And short answer as possible.
Okay, short answer.
Rockpool.
Rockpool.
I don't know.
That's a bad answer.
The biggest, I'm not sure it's possible,
but the biggest is kind of have some effect
on how people see the beauty.
Okay.
Kind of like that.
I sometimes take notes, so give me a second.
And when it comes to your growth, are you happy where you are or do you like to reach
new highs or what is what is your dream
of course i'm not happy no one is happy we all want to have some more. Nobody's happy, that's true.
But I can find something that actually brings some warm feelings inside me. It's everything that happens with me, it's natural.
I never forced myself to create a collection and send to collectors, buy my art or something like this.
I knew about many people who did this and disappeared from the space.
I just wanted to start it and feel if it fits me, this place fits me or not.
So everything happens naturally for me.
I don't force myself.
Intuitive work.
Like you're
making while
going, basically,
not overthinking.
That's my problem.
I'm overthinking everything.
Everybody's doing that.
But, I mean,
yeah, that's two good goals actually let's let's let's set it back and then we get to this um after nevermore but uh one last thing um
do you do you actually care about like what is your social you care about the most is it just x because of web free or do you
also use instagram or whatever tiktok to actually grow your reach i used to be in instagram but not
to say not all the time i was skipping days and days but no when the war started, I gave up with Instagram.
And actually, I was happy to find Twitter.
It's kind of other kind of society, I have to say.
It helped me a lot during those times.
Yeah. So you left Instagram because of what? Because you just told the war, but I was not understanding why. I didn't left. I just stopped posting
anything, but I still there. there you still consume others
like content and stuff
you still watch
your friends and other
photographers on Instagram
while doing nothing
I'm going to embarrass myself but
what the hell
I don't watch my friends content
I watch like some funny videos.
Oh, you're more on the news side. There you go.
You know, just to cheer myself up.
But I'm looking at another artist's works in other places.
Sometimes, yes, I force myself to see what's going on in fashion industry in instagram
but you know personal based yeah yeah i cannot reject to parents funny video we get back we get
back to this uh in a second but um really appreciate your time and your answers i think
everybody should drop a heart because for some of you,
it's probably much easier to get out
and do stuff and be who you are.
And I think for Ira, being Russian,
I think that's really a different thing.
Yeah, thanks so much for your time
and hope you stay with us a little bit.
And I have a challenge for you.
Maybe something, and hope you stay with us a little bit. And I have a challenge for you.
Maybe something, if you have something like on your camera roll from your like artist journey,
it not even have to be a final piece or something,
but something you actually never shared.
And maybe one quote, which you also never shared,
and maybe one quote which you also never shared,
which helps people to get a little deeper into what is ERA, who is ERA,
and I would appreciate it if you can do that
and drop it into the comments in the space so I can pin it up later.
awesome so everybody in here feel free to jump onto the stage as well to support this space
Awesome.
we have a little Q&A at the end but let's jump to nevermore great guy from Prague you said GM GM yep I'm never more I'm from Prague Czech Republic and
I'm a brand and digital product designer in my whole life basically and jumped to
jump to creating art as a basically opposite thing to my work
because my work needs strict rules for effectivity
and so the brands work and the products make money and so on.
So the opposite is just doing what I want and what I feel.
That was why I jumped on art, creating it for myself.
And I'm working a lot with AI art a lot. I'm experimenting in many ways from static art
over short movies to generative art, basically writing a code with ai and creating
3d printable statues so so the like the field is is really wide and yeah that's what i do What do you want to hear from me next?
Oh, sorry.
I was on mute.
Brand and product designer you told because I was missing the word. Yeah, yeah. Brand and product designer, you told, because I was missing the word.
Yeah, brand and digital product designer.
Awesome.
So how long are you in art?
When did you join as an artist?
It's like, I guess, three years ago.
Probably that's when I started.
It's not when I set up my profile and website, but that's probably when i started it's not when i uh it's not when i set up my profile and website but that's
probably when i started did you start in web3 or as artist in general i started um i wasn't i wasn't
quite stranger for art and for my whole life i also i wanted to to go to the University of Arts here in Prague to do it as a hobby, basically.
But I didn't make it the first year.
I was second, like below the border.
So they took only two people and I was the fourth one.
So I gave up. border so they took only two people and I was the fourth one so I
gave up and then I didn't
have much time for it
I joined like three years
ago mainly
with
when AI started to
be there and
I could
use any tools or any technology
because I'm really heavy on tech to create my stuff.
And when AI came, I suddenly had no borders,
no, nothing to stop me from creating what I want
and what I feel.
So that's why I went this way.
And also I started in like work three in a small AI art community.
I joined, how we are called, Strange History Movement, which is a group about historic crypto,
basically doing art stuff with fake history,
motifs like paraphrasing the history,
looking at it with different view.
So this was one of my groups I started.
Awesome. And how old are you, if I can ask? I've probably missed that, but we don't ask
women how old they are.
I'm going to be 40 in like two weeks or so.
40 in two weeks?
So you're one?
40 in 40 days.
Awesome.
So close to a big birthday party.
Yeah, yeah.
Great.
Yeah, thanks for answering. take that took some notes I
hope I can put this together it's it's really hard to actually host the space
while taking notes and speaking but yeah let's let's hear from you what what are
your struggles like when it comes to like general growth or or like as an
artist upcoming artists what do you face every day which you like to change or When it comes to general growth or as an artist, upcoming artist,
what do you face every day which you like to change or do you like to have insights?
It's more things or more topics, but the main is probably getting the reach,
getting my stuff out there.
And that was also one of the reasons I joined the Board Eipzig Club
like a half year ago.
Big cheers to guys from the club here.
And to get better reach, to get into the community I can basically talk to,
this is the main struggle.
I'm at like
1,500 followers on X.
I have a profile on Instagram
where I am much more passive
than on X.
Yeah, I just,
I also checked your website.
It looks really,
I really like the style it's like really
minimal and really clean thanks and the problem is it's not updated as I probably told you in DMs
my most recent stuff is on my ex profile because I didn't have time to to manage the website but
but I know I have to we actually have to take the time there is never enough time
you just set the reminder then you have to do it even if it's just 20 minutes a week i think you
can afford 20 minutes a week and then you just change one thing and next week you go to the next
stuff i i also have like really struggled with all this but um
yeah kind of a management which kicks you in the ass uh with like a reminder or something helps
um but yeah i mean is it for you like is art is a hobby and you have a day job right
day job, right?
Yeah, it's a hobby.
And I'm trying to build it into a brand.
That's my, like, the main goal is to go into a fusion of my art
and fashion and design and mix all this stuff together
and bring my art to physical products
and work with it as a designer's brand, basically, or art slash designer's brand.
That was the main goal from the beginning, because when you are only doing your full-time job,
you don't have anything you could work in this way with. Like you don't have any designs you could
put on a t-shirt or you don't have any designs you could sell as a printed art. So I started,
basically that's why I started creating art because it's the way I pushed myself to find the time, as you just said,
and do something else, do something I really want to do
and build step by step.
And, yeah, that's the way I'm trying to go.
That sounds actually great.
So goals when, I mean, struggles and goals are really close so
what's your goals for 2025 as an artist or like what what do you see like do you
see like big product lounges or do you just like to grow and involve and build your brand like? I guess this goes hand by hand.
Now I'm in the phase when I'm trying different products,
samples, different medias, different stuff,
I could create and offer and sell.
So the next step is to build the e-commerce part of my current portfolio website.
So because now I'm promoting my art,
and the only thing basically I have to offer for potential collectors or customers
is few minted NFT pieces on foundation.
One or two pieces are still left on the object to buy.
And I'm still working on the next step.
So I'm just promoting how it looks what i do but it doesn't have the like like the cta
step to to offer the real thing yeah so it's it's let it back real quick so you you understand what
i mean i i mean it's it's fine but if if you just have like a big goal which is more like a word or like a sentence,
which is not like explaining things.
I mean, everybody likes to sell art.
Everybody likes to actually grow.
But for me, what was the goal for me was like buying my father's house.
I did not have the money to.
So that was my biggest goal I had little goals between that but that
was my biggest goal when I joined web3 so what's your biggest goal my biggest
goal is to build never more as an art slash designers burnt everyone knows.
So, there you go.
That was a big answer.
Really liked that.
And I think it's really necessary to have big goals in front of you.
Try to actually put 10, 20 smaller goals between that to actually don't get burnt out while trying to reach the sky.
So it's like having small challenges you actually handle every month or year
to grow bigger and actually, how's the word again?
I was already, my English sucks so hard it's
like give me a second yeah the kind of sense of self esteem how you say this? Self-awareness?
Yeah, just like that you actually...
For me, before I grow to a bigger known artist,
I was never really right with myself.
I struggled mostly with myself.
It was always really painful.
And I also struggled a lot with money.
I had a really painful start when it comes to handling my bills and shit and can go painting in my studio and stuff. But as I reached more goals, I reached them, not somebody did it for me or somebody paid me.
It's like this self-love and the power of yourself getting stronger.
And with this, you can reach bigger goals and it's much easier.
And you don't even realize how you get there.
It's just happening.
But before that, it was like even the smallest steps felt like mountains
and it was always looking impossible actually to reach them.
And, yeah, I think these goals are really necessary
and, yeah, really appreciate you sharing this with us and yeah looking forward
to hear more but um yeah let's let's recap the room a little bit it's already close to an hour
i hope everybody who is here enjoyed it and really appreciate you taking the time
and also we have some other speakers up on the stage.
Thanks for joining.
We come to you also in a second.
But I will just
recap from myself what I see.
First going to
ERA and then to Nevermore.
Just looking to their
X profile and
basically
also Instagram, even if you just use it as a funny way to
amaze yourself and the website I mean today like for me it's when when I think
about how I will grow from scratch like I would not be an artist I I will not be
Dario, De Siena, whoever I just start from scratch I think it's a gift that we
actually have that we can use all this shit like for free I know it's kind of
mixed because we share our creativity and and what we like to share to actually feed the algorithm and feed the space we are in.
But at the end, I think it's a win-win.
And if you don't use it, I think it's just really wasted space, actually.
It's easy to actually get all the information you need to grow uh even if it's
not always the fastest it's like there are tutorials there are like people who can help
they're like everybody is like different but at the end it comes really to the basic steps
that you actually have to be consistent and work on yourself and get it out
there, right? So get it out there is one thing. Instagram is a tool. You share it there and you
try to reach more people. I mean, when it comes to Instagram and algorithm and how you grow and
all this stuff, it can be tricky, but it does not have to be.
I think with all the AI taking over the space and the world,
it gets much easier to actually do real content.
Before that, it was just like, okay, everybody can paint wonderful paintings
and everybody is just like the best influencer and and everything
looks amazing but now the algorithm changes and says hey we just like authentic content and
being authentic it's like you can just share who you are what people don't even know who are close to you and share little more insights on how you build
your art or or what what is your daily between the art and when you get up whatever it's like
there is endless possibilities and if you don't use it as an artist in like 2025 I'm I think you miss a big, big part. And if you do it, I think you should try to make baby steps every week
and bigger steps every month and have the goals in front of you
to actually reach more people, reach your audience,
also engage your already followers and all this stuff.
followers and and all this stuff um i think it's necessary but everybody has different of like
I think it's necessary.
views on on it but uh when it comes to growth i think it helps when you come from every angle
possible um era i think if you just like love memes and shit like like do this, but probably do it with a personal account will help.
And if you like to,
if you get back to Instagram and start posting,
I like to give you like a one hour workshop or whatever,
like one-to-one so we can improve some stuff.
It's also about the branding.
What I see is like you have different names like on
on Instagram you
have a different name than on X and
on X you also have two names your normal name and then your artist name. I think that's that's right.
right is it your real name and your artist name uh ira lucenka is my real name i don't know what
Is it your real name and your artist name?
you mean what is your name ira lucenka okay and your name how do i spell your answer
say again sautira i can't even say that. Probably right.
No, it's perfect.
Grateful clip that
does not work.
But anyway,
if you like to have
help with that, I would love to help
somehow. X is a
bitch. I don't even know what's going
on with this shit algorithm.
No. If you work hard hard it works as well but yeah if you like to get a little help there also with like your branding overall like
what are you like what is your story and what can you share a little bit more insights that
people just understand a little bit more who you are and
how you work and stuff. I think that's right now everything which is personal and a little on the
emotional side and let people think more and stay a little longer on your profile because of that,
it just helps to actually grow really fast.
And yeah, I saw you don't have a website, right?
No, I don't.
And I'm sorry for interrupting you,
but I really want to talk to Giulio about what he's going to say about all this.
He's awesome.
And I think you have to have him next space.
He's awesome.
He's just incredible.
Giulio?
Giulio.
Or who you mean?
Giulio.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, yeah.
He's already up on the stage.
Let's, let's, we can do this for sure.
Yeah, little, little jump on Nevermore's Instagram.
And also, I mean, X, for for me x is not really telling much like it's not about
like who what is your pfp or what is in your like bio and it's it's just really hard to get it on x
if you ask me it's what you post today is gone in two days and if you retweet a lot then it's actually gone in seconds probably
in in minutes so it's really hard to actually tell on x how to improve uh from from this stage but
overall i think it's um the branding is is on point you have every everywhere you have your
the same name everybody knows you on the nevermore with the X now I know as well.
On Instagram probably you could
shorten up your
bio a little bit, which will probably help.
And Instagram is just really different to
which is like this, the PFP,
for me, it's like I'm doxxed,
so I don't give a shit on X.
I have my punk.
I don't need to show my ugly face.
But on Instagram, they actually really care.
So right now, everything is about authenticity and about people
and about realness and stuff.
So I think it's a good thing to change to you as a picture.
If you're doxxed, if not, it's totally up to everybody.
Like if you like to build your artist brand around you like Mutant
and that's you and that's also fine. totally up to everybody. If you like to build your artist brand around your mutant,
and that's you, and that's also fine.
I mean, there is nothing against that.
But it's just saying how I see it
and how many tell what they like to see
when they follow someone on Instagram.
And yeah, I mean, we already talked about website branding is
great it's it's it's a nice logo really simple clean uh maybe you already told yourself what
you actually have to do you need to be more updating uh take this 20 minutes every week or month to actually improve your website or just get some news out.
And when I go Instagram, I think the themes are amazing.
I really like it.
What I can say from if you like to actually reach more people, a little some like inside
hacks. reach more people a little some like inside hacks uh i see you already do like the the swipes and
like close-ups on on ai um renderings and stuff so that's already a good thing because like
just normal posts do not even reach as many people as a carousel post. And also like reels is the biggest thing to grow in combination with a carousel post.
So that's just for everybody who's listening or who's interested in this.
That's just how it works.
Usually there are like specific people who have like already established following who are just like
absorbing their content so it doesn't even matter what they post right but if you're growing
i think it's really a necessary thing that you actually now dive dive deep into
try to create reels even if it's just pictures but also make it kind of
powerful pictures and as short as possible like the video should be not too long but also also
not too short um instagram is counting about the views in the first three seconds.
So for example, you have 300 followers, never more.
And if you post something and 100 people just leave after the first three seconds and you make a video, it's kind of bad.
So if you just hit like 150 or whatever,
like 50 people watching over three seconds
and even four or five seconds of the video,
it's already a really good thing.
Liking is probably not even a thing anymore.
Liking is just your friends
and how your posts get into the front feed of your friends but actually what counts
right now is like what people share to others if people save the post if they
interact with it is also good but I think saving is the new like and sends
are kind of the biggest I think send is send is the same as 400 views or something like that.
So, yeah, just do you have your hand up?
Sorry, I was not checking the phone.
No problem.
I just wanted to ask on the Instagram.
I'm still not sure if I should make posts or stories.
I know the stories fade and disappear, but I'm not sure if I can work with the posts,
like with everlasting images and everlasting posts on X because I'm used to X a lot.
And it's something not always temporary,
but the post stays there.
You can like pin them,
but it's not like staying there forever.
They just a bit fade.
So I'm not sure how to work with posts.
If I should only post like basically
the new stuff, the art piece I create, or I can use posts for like the process and everything.
Because when I started on Instagram, it's like really years ago probably a lot of years ago and it was just for having a nice gallery
of our best photos yeah but like a poor profile like a portfolio kind of thing that changed
completely yeah so i mean i i grew up with instagram and Facebook, like first Facebook, then Instagram.
Probably joined in 17 or something.
And I grew like really slowly in the beginning. And then they announced new features like IGTV, which was like you can post longer videos and stuff.
IGTV, which was like you can post longer videos and stuff.
So I was always trying to chase the algorithm and try to actually find out what works, what
not, what works for who.
And when I dive deep into stuff like that, I'm just like a zombie who can't even touch
anything else anymore.
I can't even speak to other persons for a second because
i'm so much into it so um yeah feel free to ask also after the space if you have any question
about it uh happy to help if i have the time to so when it comes to instagram right now there is
a big change happening so and this is also a
good change because before probably a half of a year Instagram ranked from
your following so as more follower you have as more will see your posts and as
more engagement you get and as faster you grow but now they changed the algorithm completely and it's kind of what you
actually they just serve people what they like to see it doesn't even matter
if the if the creator has like millions of followers they will also share the
same content of a account with like 100 followers to a much bigger audience
because the audience stays longer on the page.
So how can we do that?
It's like for now, it's like reels are like a must for me.
Like it's really necessary, but there are also accounts which make carousel posts this crazy engaged
that you actually get into a storyline of the artist
and you can see how he was building.
I think for AI artists, it's really powerful to actually share the tools they use,
really make kind of a bullet list of tools you used to do that or or step by
step it's like because and also maybe the seo is also really powerful because it's everything is
ai right now like mostly of the algorithm like is is chased with ai and the ai doesn't even need any hashtags anymore so
everybody says something different but hashtags are gone they are they were they was here to
actually make a post rank in the hashtags but you also can rank in the hashtags without using a
hashtag you can also rank in a hashtag on x without using a
hashtag right it's like um i think i don't even know if it hurts so it's just like you put it
there it's in your caption so it's seo confirmed to what you post but it it's really necessary
that you actually get into your visual. What's your visual you post?
It's also really good if you actually describe the visual you post
as visual as possible and then maybe go deeper
and what is the meaning and stuff.
But if it sees, like if it hears what you show
and it already understands what shows because ai already tracked it
this is a really powerful uh thing and if you do this like with for example a carousel post you can
uh write on every image like for example you drop a carousel post of like five images
the first image gets showed to all your followers if they don't interact with it maybe
they they did not saw it or or it was just the wrong image the same post will get shown to them
like the second um this the second image of the swipe was shown maybe a half an hour later or a day later so they even if they don't saw the
first one maybe they interact with the second one so first and second of a car sale post should be
really powerful but also really quick so people get it really fast and then as you go deeper you deeper, you can share more insights and probably the biggest hint or if you like to actually
like to share your hidden receipt, like receive of something, how you do stuff which you will
never share, put it to the end. So everybody needs to scroll to the end and at the end,
when they are there, there can be a call to action. It doesn't have to be, but it's like, I think people will, it's already a thing that if you do this, like, you also have to be a little consistent.
But if you do this, it will help you grow really fast.
And that's also why small accounts right now have kind of a better chance of getting reach,
because you can also get really downranked if you have like, for example, you made really good reels in like a half a year ago,
which hit like 500k, and now you don't get used to the algorithm anymore.
Your reach will be like smashed you
will be probably like what is happening i get 50 likes or i get like 500 000 or just like thousand
views so uh the small creators have like much more opportunity upside than the bigger creators so
but um you can also pin stuff right so you can your your biggest your most favorite
stuff you like to share can also be like a reel where you actually explain who you are talk about
your story share some insights who you are and you can pin this on the top of your profile and
everybody will see it and everybody who comes onto your profile yeah we'll
actually get a little closer to you and actually understand what you're doing
and what you stand for I hope this answers your question thanks thanks
that helped a lot so I will work with it with with just posts and not looking at it as a gallery, just
share what I
want and
regular with it.
Yeah, it should
be, I think,
if what you also can do,
I mean, some
creators do
all the normal posts and the carousel posts,
they use in the front feed and everything which is like more deep inside
on how the artist works or their daily business, whatever,
they share in the reels and they hide it from the front feed.
So the front feed is more like a gallery
and then they have to skip between the the main posts and and the videos that's also
can be a strategy but uh what you asked also if you should post in the stories or in the
feed and i think right now stories are really powerful,
but they have a kind of algorithmic issue
because the weighting of how the algorithm is weighting story exits
is just too big.
So, for example, if you make a story, 10 people watch it and like
five exits or swiped before watching the story, it can hurt the story a lot. And it's really
like, it's really bad. And if you have like, for example, you make one story a day for
24 hours, nothing else, and it should be a good one with an insight or, or it should
not be personal, it should not be your daily life
you can do this when you're like famous and everybody like to hunt you on on the street but
um yeah like normally like stories are like crazy like you post one story a day and nothing else
you you get like thousand people to watch it.
Like, for example, for me, if I do this 24-hour, only one story,
I can reach till like 4K or 5K, which is already a lot.
Normally, I get like 200 people to watch my story,
even if I have 50K followers on Instagram.
And I don't do like a lot of insights in my story.
I really, I think I mess this up
because I just don't have enough time.
But if you have time and if you put the work into this,
like one story a day with some insights,
how you work and whatever is like valuable
for your following or followers,
that keeps them in track with your kind of work and that's
really helpful to actually get this trust over over time yeah stories for like it's it's crazy
but the algorithm they have to change it because they mess themselves up.
Because if, for example, I post one story now, I get like 700 people to watch it in three hours.
Then I drop the next story, which is not really a bad one.
And the reach is like 50 people watch it after three hours.
And it was like, what the fuck is like 50 people watch it after 3 hours and it was like what the fuck is happening
and they just have
2 times when they can leave your
story so
one story a day will
already solve the problem of
a little reach to your following because
you don't reach new followers
only the followers who check
out your existing
posts will probably check the story i think you
can just listen to yourself and what are you doing when you actually found someone is like oh
this guy is amazing let's check out this his profile and then you see okay he has a story up
let's check what he's doing. And I think that's normal.
We don't even think about how we handle Instagram or social.
It's just happening.
But yeah, so I think we are over one hour already.
Crazy.
That was fast.
I hope it helps somehow.
The first space is always really tricky to handle.
I need a co-host.
Dreams is just chilling there and doing nothing.
God damn it.
What are you saying?
Chilling there and doing nothing.
I'm good for it.
Yeah, Dreams is just there chilling and he's really doing nothing.
He's not even throwing emojis or anything.
Okay, he is here.
It's fine um but also appreciate
everybody who is listening um i think we give it another 20 minutes or so um i talked about like a
q a when it comes to questions you guys have probably um feel free to drop it. Ira, if you have any questions,
you had a question before
which I answered, so
you can maybe go with that.
Or if you have something else
you'd like to know, feel free to drop it.
Well, I can ask several
questions.
Let's start with one.
Okay.
How big are you? I'm 126.
For the last 20 minutes, you were telling us to switch from Web 3 to Web 2.
Are we going to make it or not?
That's my question.
No, it's just that simple.
I think we just don't have enough tools on X yet to actually...
I mean, it's working.
You can do it, but it's also a real struggle.
And if you combine both, it's just more powerful, I guess.
That's just how I see it.
I mean, I also have a TikTok account, which I don't use a lot. I also have a YouTube account, I don't use a lot.
I also have a YouTube account, but I don't use it a lot.
But if I will combine all things together and link everything together,
it's just better for your reputation as an artist.
So we have to bring more people in Web3. Is that correct?
That's also correct. We can't have enough people in Web3.
They should buy our bags and we dump everything on their heads.
Yeah, finally.
Yeah, that was the real talk I was talking about.
But no, let's get back do you have any questions uh feel free to ask and never
more you too if you have any question and uh yeah some of on in the audience if you like to come up
to the stage for the last 20 minutes feel free to request ira what's up you don't need to raise the
hand if you're the woman of stage yeah but i but I have to be polite. That's just me.
So I have a question. Do you think it has some saying, let's say, I'm not sure it's correct English, sorry.
To bring someone new, completely new to the referee without, you know, knowing someone, absolutely like, you know,
new people, new artists to Web3. I think it has no point without knowing anyone.
Hi, that was a hard question, actually. Can you say the question again?
It's not the English, it's just like I think I missed the word.
You think how is it possible as someone new you know, for someone new to join the 3rd 3rd without
knowing, you know, community, what's going on. Completely new.
But it's, I think, did you join because of a friend or why did you join yes i joined because
i was already inside the community i haven't started from the zero i started from some over
the zero yes that's why it was but zero we all started at zero when we started in Web3, right? No, no, no.
Exactly.
I had this, let's see, luck to know someone who started.
Kirill Pobedin.
He started this community, the Frame Society.
And it really helped.
And I thought about this.
And if I started from the scratch, I think it has no point.
I wouldn't know anything or anyone.
No one would give me credit or believe to me.
I think they would.
But back to your question.
I think it's possible I'm Swiss
I started
back 2021 February
and I had 7 followers
on X
and I was on Instagram
having 50k followers
I'm sorry Dario
I have to ask you
did it happen before Elon Musk joined the space?
Yeah.
Yeah, before Bloomberg and everything.
Okay.
No, let me finish.
Let me finish.
So let's hear that.
So for me, I was on Instagram.
I had like probably around 45K followers.
And I was like, a friend told me about Web3.
He just told me, but he was not in there.
So why are you not making NFTs?
And I was like, okay, what is an NFT?
So I was going to research.
And then I asked a friend who is more in tech from Instagram.
And he told me, you actually have to go to Clubhouse and the community is on X or on Twitter, basically.
So I was thinking, okay, let's see what is Clubhouse.
I searched for it, downloaded the app and joined.
And also on X, I tried to actually found those people and
then i for me i i did not even was able to speak english in the beginning so i'm i'm swiss my
english is really really bad i was hating to speak in front of people and first I was just listening like probably for like one two weeks I
was just listening and get more and more like kind of triggered by myself okay you have to actually
go to this stage and you actually have to speak and you actually have to share your story whatever
without that it will not work out so I think I get I was going get used to it and
found some friends in Clubhouse like for example Gabe Wise or or JR and and Sabbath and some like
big names in the space but when in the beginning I was not even realizing that and as I as I was growing together with my friends I had and
like the space was involving I just grow from there and now I'm close to break even because
I missed Instagram a lot like I was just not able to actually do everything together while like
growing really fast in the web free space and having a success
but i was starting really from scratch and i had this struggle like painful sitting in a in a
clubhouse room sweating my ass off while sitting on this stage trying to like bring like five words
on the table which i already missed i was like thinking about it when I was waiting to get up to the stage.
And then I was on the stage and I was like, God fucking damn it.
And yeah, I had this experience a lot.
And I started really, really from scratch.
Even grateful, I just was able to kind of get friends with him
because he was a collector of my derivative work and
yeah from there everything is history but never never more what you'd like to share
yeah I just wanted to say that I started from scratch too even though I was in web3 from 2021, like July, I guess.
But with my other account and for my art,
I started a completely new, fresh account.
I started from zero and now I'm on 1,500 followers.
So I guess it works.
I just wanted to say to Ira that it works because, and I didn't start it with my connections.
I started really from scratch, building a new name, new brand, not doxxed, without using any previous connections.
Actually, today I have exhibition or my art pieces are part of exhibition in Romania.
And this was the moment I shared this on my personal Facebook to my friends almost after two or three years.
three years and now only like few of my closest friends only know about this because i'm like
building this stuff like disconnected from my from my personal like from my person or my real
life person until now i i want to to fuse it when the stuff is ready. So not before not to explain everything
like in a very difficult way.
Yeah.
Everything's possible if you really try to chase it.
I think it's really hard to say this
as someone who is living in Switzerland.
I think it's always completely different to
everybody in here like everybody's coming from a different country as a different kind of where
they come from what what is their job or even they have a job do they need the money whatever
like it's it's endless right but at the end um it always comes back to you. And I will not be here without all the pain I had.
This just made me stronger.
I think if I will join like Web3 10 years before,
I will probably not have the success I reached.
I will probably completely mess up and everything.
So I think it also needs
to be the right time and people in this
space also really rush things
I think it's because
you see people winning all
the fucking time like every single
day and
somehow at some point it's just
like really really hard for your brain
to actually think how I get
there right so don't
think about this and try to improve your own little um skill set and try to get better day
by day is the most important thing and don't lose that because i think when when you think about if
you will die tomorrow like what would you say to yourself what did you miss what should i do
better what is like you know what i mean it's like when when the last like minute is coming it's like
you you talk to yourself and it's like i i do this a lot actually because i think it's
sometimes i lose myself it's like everything is boring or whatever. I'm boring. My art is boring.
How can I improve?
And you get into kind of a bad rabbit hole.
But it's always you and everybody has the same power.
It's like getting out there, try to give your best and improve day by day and not like win
like for example
if I like to be the next people in two
weeks it's not happening and it's just
the baddest goal ever
so just let it be
yeah
I see
we have so many opportunities
these days I I think many before us, like for example before 2000 or before even we had a computer, before whatever, it was harder to actually get reach.
we are connected to the world i'm swiss i will probably die a swiss artist where like people
having like paintings in switzerland in in their garage whatever fuck it's like but with web3
like this just showed me i'm connected to the world and and it that was not even when i was
like having 50k followers on instagram before web3 it was like okay how can
I utilize that and how can I make money from that it was not even real but with web3 it was like
coming more closer to actually yeah I mean it was first it was like digital art, but now you can actually expand this wherever you like with like digital or just make it your own.
It's like there are so many possibilities and I think it's sometimes people are somehow lazy.
Even they talk every day to themselves like I need to do this.
That's what I try to do next.
And then they don't do it. And then they look back and it's like, why did I to do this that that's what I try to do next and then they don't do
it and then they look back and it's like why did then with why did I not do
this and I think do more without thinking and all thinking is is really a
bad bad thing for me overthinking is like that's when I when I feel I'm in
this rabbit hole I just quit for a week and then I get refreshed back
and try to actually
just go with the flow.
Hopefully that works out.
Ira, what do you like to say?
You almost lost me
when you were talking.
What
said
never sorry, nevermore before?
I just wanted to ask him.
I mean, I not even wanted to ask him.
He said he joined this like four years ago.
I mean, I wanted to point this to the fact that it was built for elon musk
i mean after elon musk joined the space i mean he after he bought the space it's incredibly
difficult to people to uh i have to, increase the ability, visibility.
It's very difficult now.
And I feel that I'm not quite sure it's, how to say,
it's worth spending time.
Even you, Dario, you said you have to join Instagram
and post there instead of web free, like Twitter.
Yes, you said it's a way to increase your visibility.
The funny thing is everybody who is in web free also has Instagram probably,
and they also find you there.
So if they see you every day there and also an ex
it's probably good for the brain when it comes to actually sell something for
example it's just like reputation is key and and as more people see you it's the
same as a commercial sometimes you see a commercial at the worst fucking place
you ever can imagine it's like what the fuck is like this coca-cola
commercial doing here i can't even buy a coca-cola right now but it's actually you have to see
something like a human like needs to see something 25 to 30 times till they actually think about
buying buying it so that's why the big brands are doing it this much.
So that at the end, when your brain thinks, what should I drink?
It's like, it probably will be a Coke without even knowing why.
And the same happens with art.
It's like, it's that simple.
Without even knowing why, yes, that's right.
Yeah, but visibility is a a bit on x i know but um i think you you you know what is working when you see what you post and and what
is not working well uh do more what what you think is working and and try to avoid what's not working
and then you grow from there it's. I think it's that simple.
For me, I have a lot of artists around me,
but I also have a lot of meme accounts
or people who just invest in meme coins and shit.
So my kind of community is really split.
So when I post art, it's just reaching the art section. And if I post about memes post art it's just reaching the art section and if i
post about memes it's like just reaching the meme section it's like really hard to chase both
um and then that's that's just really bad for for my engagement but for me it's like right now it's
like x is is is my web free family it's like it's more more fun than Instagram for me is. Like, for me, Instagram
is hard work and actually put
my stuff out and try to chase the
algorithm to actually get free
views. I have to say,
I love all of your sites.
Just to say.
So you know me on
Instagram as well?
Yes, yes.
That's awesome.
So I'm not a meme account.
How can this happen?
Got you.
Yeah.
But anyway,
I think it's time
to actually chill out a bit
and relax.
If anybody likes to come up, say hi.
Serk, I see you there.
You'd like to co-host with me the last 15 minutes.
I already knew that.
And everybody else, if you'd like to have any questions,
like a five-minute question round, feel free to jump on the stage.
Happy to answer some questions.
Yeah.
There you go.
Finally have a co-host.
Dreams, you suck.
Did I say this? God damn it.
I should not whisper that else.
Serg, what's up?
How are you?
How are you? Hello everyone Dario, and hello, everyone.
How are you, guys?
Listening to space, and I really
missed those kind of space because it's really helpful
for the artists.
And we were hosting space since 2021.
You remember, Dario?
We need those kind of space
so yeah
it's amazing to hear you guys again and again
so I'm just listening
and if you have any questions
or if I can add some value to the space
feel free to
push me up in the space
yeah for sure
appreciate it
for me it was just necessary for myself. And it's also a good learning experience when it comes to hosting spaces while trying to actually take notes and keep up with everything. and because I was actually scared that my wife is crashing now I'm inside
what the fuck
but yeah I appreciate you coming up bro
and supporting this space
the first one
I see
Jamie
up here
yeah Jamie
Jamie sorry
it's Jaime in Spanish and Jack's in French, but yeah.
Jamie, Jamie?
Yeah, Jamie's okay, there you are.
Jamie's okay.
I'm Italian, I don't get used to Spanish, goddammit.
No, I, oh, well, I will be brief.
I just wanted to say hi to Aida in English because normally we speak in French.
For whatever reason, she likes more French than English.
But well, since we are in an English space, I just wanted to say hi to her.
So, I guess that's all. The time is short, so, hi Aera, lovely space, and I'm really glad to see your voice and your outer. And that's it.
that. Ira,
what's getting back from you?
It's like, yeah, when
people just join a space and don't
even talk about themselves,
just show off to
say hi, that's amazing.
Appreciate you.
I'm just joining this for the first
time and it's kind of
weird to me because I'm just getting
introduced to the whole day.
I just wanted to say something
but i'm talking from nigeria anyways it's nice to meet everyone here
hi how raya uh it's actually rabia because that emoji the b that's the b yeah yeah yeah so it's right here. That's a nice wordplay.
How are you?
I'm good.
I'm fine.
Sweating a little bit after trying to actually host the space.
But, yeah, do you have any questions about the topics we talked or do you have any questions for me?
I tried late, so I didn't really get much of what you guys were talking about.
That's fine. You can listen to the recording later.
But we talked about growth and kind of struggle as an artist.
Are you an artist, by the by the way no but I love
painting and drawings I used to do body art before but not anymore that's
awesome really you coming up and say hi thank you very much wish you an awesome
day from Switzerland to Nigeria is it night there you said yeah it's
late already we are i think it's uh 11 36 pm yeah we have the same time zone there you go oh
wait yeah have an awesome awesome weekend um yeah by way, everybody who is in this space, please
follow all the
speakers and also
support the artists.
Rhea, would you like to say anything
before?
No, I don't have anything to say. Bye.
Bye, have a great day.
Bye.
Yeah, Ira, what's up?
Yeah, I want to say Thank you to Serk
For joining the space
It was really nice to see
I love
You know
Serk has a list of
People, if you're a
Small account, you have to reply to this
specific
how to say accounts
sorry my English is terrible
I prepared you
I told you from the very beginning
you have to reply to these guys
and you will grow
with your small account
so it's really
helpful and I'm thankful to Serk for creating this kind of
advice and thank you for being in the space and thank you for creating your own space a year ago.
Yes, and Dario creates it now, so he's better. So you have to create as well, Serk.
Take an example from Dario.
Serk, I like her English, actually.
It's amazing.
Terrible.
So, yeah, thank you, Serk, for being here.
I really appreciate this.
I didn't understand everything.
I hope not.
He can't say anything now.
He's like, what the fuck is happening?
Just the back of the...
Unfollow her.
Elon rocked him at the right time.
Yeah.
Anybody else, if you'd like to jump on the stage,
I'll give it another 10 minutes before we wrap it up.
Nevermore, anything else you'd like to share or do you like to...
I just saw your piece, actually, unfinished, unpolished piece.
Looks already amazing, actually, if you ask me.
Yeah, I just scrolled through my photos
on my phone to find,
as you said before, to find something
we have probably never published
or is not finished.
This is like almost two years
old stuff
from series. I've
not yet finished, so
I just wanted to give you some
like peek behind the curtains or how it looks and Not yet finished so I just wanted to give you some like
peek behind the curtains or
How it looks and how the process is
Yeah, that's awesome. It's always great to actually look back what you did and I have so much I have so much fucking stuff I never showed
then even even paintings I had I have just rolled in Edge in my studio and never watched them.
Last week I actually took them out and sorted out what is finished and what not in my eyes of
like an artist in 2025. It's really funny because things I did not like,
I like it a lot right now and I think it's finished
and things I just like because I painted it perfectly.
It's just like, okay, that's fucking boring.
I need to have to do something.
Yeah, but, or even if I find something
and I ask myself, how did I do that?
That also happens sometimes
yeah the view
on pieces changes
over time a lot
you're right
but minting the work
really helps with this
because there's the point where you
just need to say okay
it's done and I'm going
with it out and it's there for like forever, since this moment.
Yeah.
I wanted to say this to Ira about like joining the W3 space for new artists.
It's not like a crypto Twitter or like this part of X for me.
It's like minting the work and like making the timestamp for it.
So I don't see it like connected the work through and minting the work.
I connect it to all this we do here.
You can, I guess, probably do it also on Instagram, like the public network or public service there. But as a digital designer,
mostly like 99% of my work is digital first.
And it really makes sense to me that the digital is original and I,
I like, uh, uh, I treat it that way.
Uh, so when I make prints, it's like basically the edition or
versions of the one original.
So I'm going with the digital as the original one thing.
So that's why I want and need to mint it because that's the one thing I might.
You don't need to raise the hand.
Sorry.
I'm trying to be polite.
At least here.
It's that simple.
Men cannot speak over women.
Women can.
It's that simple.
It's fine.
I feel like it doesn't work in the real world.
Okay, let's start with this.
We are not in the real world in Web3, actually.
Okay. Okay, let's start with this. We are not in the real world in Web3, actually. Okay, so first of all, I just realized that there was a quote like something like,
we're not asking women about their ages.
Yes, it's in my profile.
You can join it there.
Yeah, we are close to Nevermore at some point.
Not exactly, but...
You're the same as I am.
I think kind of, yeah.
That's why we connect that well.
Do you see, Cirque?
Do you see?
That's the problem.
There you go.
Oh, my God.
I just lost what just is here third
we're free to search god damn it anyway yeah appreciate you sharing your age. You can also hide this, right?
This is kind of embarrassing. I had some clever thought in my head.
I'm just too old. This is embarrassing. Sorry, you guys.
What? You're too old?
You are still younger than me.
He's old. He gets still younger than me. He's old.
He gets 40 in
30 days.
Life is over.
It's just like...
No, no, no.
It's just starting.
It's just starting.
There you go.
The biggest...
How is it?
The biggest brands
people started with 40 years up that's
yeah that's why I want two years extra yeah is this inside but Iran and you can
also you can also hide your age on on X and it and it's probably not always a good thing to share it.
Why?
Not because of your age, actually.
More like that people have more insights on your personal stuff.
Bad people.
You know what I mean?
It's just like
people who like to
hack or
scam someone or scam you.
It's just like
you can hide it.
I think it's
possible, right?
So you think it's better to be hide?
I think it's
better to hide it, yeah.
Okay.
Serge also hide it because he's like 85 years or whatever,
like, or 65 years.
I don't even remember anymore.
Ah, he's here.
There you go.
Did you see?
I'm just 60, man, you know.
We don't talk about this.
That was the last party.
We were dancing on the table and shit.
Okay. Okay.
Yeah, never more you have another 20 years.
So, no, ERA, it was no joke.
I think showing the birthday on X is probably, yeah, it's a safety thing.
But I'm just really paranoid when it comes to stuff like that.
I know everybody can probably research how old someone is
when it comes to a little bit more fame as an artist or whatever,
but it's still, if it stands there, it's just too simple.
It's also on Instagram, if you have, like, for example,
you have an Instagram account, and if you have like, for example, you have an Instagram account and
then you have there somewhere there is a button where I can send email.
Some have this activated, some not.
But if you have it activated and your email is the same as you log in to Instagram, it's
not a good thing because then people already have your name, they have your
birthday, they have your email, you log in and then it's even more easy to actually
crack your password or whatever. It's just like, yeah, as more infos you get out,
as easy it is for bad people to actually interact.
Yeah, thank you, Dario. Plus one phobia for us.
Yeah, I now can say I'm the same age as Ira and if you'd like to know how old she is,
she's the same age as I have.
Does this make any sense?
And we're still really
young against Dusserq,
so it's fine.
Yeah, how you enjoyed the first
space? I need a little recap on
myself because my brain
is hurting. My
kind of sketch here is a fucking mess I
try to see if what I write down of about you you guys makes any sense at the end
let's see if chat GPT can handle it without chat GPT I will be fucked
will be fucked. Let's see. If I may say you focused on chat GPT too much and less about your... I can't even say any word without chat GPT.
I don't even know how to spell things in German.
Yes, but you lost your guests.
There were people who joined the space as speakers
and they left because you didn't let them speak.
You mean Giulio? Yes, I mean Giulio, my mean Giulio?
Yes, I mean Giulio.
My beloved Giulio.
Many people
have many things to do
actually this weekend.
I just tried to summarize
real quick, but
do we have anything else you'd like to know or what did you get from this space?
I'd like to hear from you.
Did you learn anything?
Yeah, thanks for all the info.
how to work with the socials
and to keep moving on
and to be like,
I don't know what,
like the frequent,
like the regular
and just stay on it
and find more time
to move my website and socials
and just to keep going on.
And thank you very much for hosting this space.
And I hope this series will get big
because it's really great and really useful.
I guess I can speak for Irad in this too.
I guess we needed this.
That's it.
Thanks.
Thank you.'s it. Thanks. Thank you.
Appreciate it.
Yeah, I think it was a little messy from my side.
I think if I would have Cirque next to me, it would be much comfortable.
Like speaking next to a 60-year-old would be like just make my day.
like just make my day.
And I was really sweating when I started the space
because I was actually probably don't speak in spaces
over half a year, maybe one time at Grateful Space.
But I was missing my English, actually.
I was like, what the fuck?
I don't find the word anymore.
But as more I speak, as easier it gets.
And yeah, that's, I think, the last lesson for everybody in here.
I will not be here at this stage having a punk and having success in Web3 as an artist in general,
if I would not get out of my comfort zone.
will not get out of my comfort zone it's that simple kick ass where you're not really good
It's that simple.
and try to improve there like it's it's not the things which you can do and which is easy
which make you successful it's like the stuff which is next to it it's like i know i have to
learn this but i don't like or i i know i have to do this, but I don't have time for it.
It's like, it's just an excuse for something.
And as more you think about it, you will not do it.
So give yourself a task if you need to have this,
put it into your calendar as a reminder and then just do it it's um
it's that simple i i had for me a big struggle was actually when i'm like creating and i'm kind
of the i mean web3 is something different because you actually have to create and be in web3 and then connect and talk and everything so when i do both
i i was really like in a flow which i can't even describe anymore because it's like a really fluid
kind of thing when i sometimes i was creating because of something happened like in the early
days in clubhouse i was just like oh we can do remixes with our apes let's do a remix and sell
it and it's like two hours later we sold our first board ape derivative without even realizing it
right this was just happening and um as more and more i was doing as more i more i was comfortable
with and everybody liked it but i was never realizing okay I like to do Borate Derivatives like 50, 60, 70 pieces in the first place.
But when I did this, when I was in this flow and in this kind of zone, I really lost a lot of my other energy.
I was like, okay, where is life? Where is my family my family where is like what the fuck is happening it's like time is just flying and I was like 10 years older
with just being one year in web3 and then I actually had to actually reset
everything I was like often I think 11 months in the space I told myself okay
let's just have a break one month doing nothing don't even
watch the screen i think it's not possible to not watch the screen but not interacting not checking
dms not replying to dms and shit and just do your thing and and for me this helped me a lot to
actually re like reset and also at some point you actually get in trouble with your closest people around you like
mother wife father whatever it's like parents because you do the other stuff you don't do
this anymore and you don't have time for the other stuff so for me this was actually really hard i
was in the flow i i was making money but it was like where is everything else and and then i
had to actually make the opposite of everything i was in a good flow i was like having like the
growth i like i i had the success but i was actually get smashed left and right because i
don't have to time time for this and i missed to do that and right now I have my tasks in like just cleaning up or whatever it's like for me is
that like when I did this I can create and I have free time to actually be in web free and be an
artist and everything but it actually has to be like both things it's like the private stuff is
also really important to actually have this care around you and people they just like you because you who you are not because you're an artist or because you dropped this piece or because you had like this sale of like 20 ETH or whatever. It's like you need both. And I learned this the hard way. I was even close before burnout and yeah, actually
family and everything
took me back to reality and
now I'm even more
strong and realize what I have
and what I need to care about.
But yeah, comfort zone.
Get it out there. Kick your ass
and do some
notes if you need little yeah make make a calendar and put the
stuff in is really important era thanks for joining really appreciate it taking the time
on the eastern weekend never more as well and everybody else who joined the first space i think it was productive
i can improve i already know i need to listen to the space and probably can do this in one
hour next time but um we'll see how it goes but everybody who likes to join as a speaker
i give you five minutes more bottom right corner go to the
comments and drop your art and a little story about you and I try to pick some
good ones to actually yeah jump into their story and also it's not a shill
space it's more like try to improve or try to find out about your goals and which you
don't even know so we'll see but looking already forward to the next one i hear it grateful is an
artist and i like to interview him and hear about his struggles
ira what up what up yeah. I'm just too polite.
You can blame me on that.
But I want to thank you one more time
for this space and that
idea that you're doing this.
Okay, you started with us.
Not the better.
How are you doing this?
Grateful is always sending emojis
when you're speaking. When I'm speaking,
there is nothing happening.
You see,
he's not even here anymore.
God damn it.
Sorry, I dropped you.
You can move on.
Yes, I'm moving on.
I hope you will keep doing this kind of spaces and
it's really important to
give
a chance to small account to raise their voice.
It's really important.
You're so adorable doing this.
And I so appreciate you.
And I'm talking for all the people who are going to join you in next spaces
because it's really great what you're doing.
And thank you for doing this.
And I love you.
And I love Sark.
And I love Jamie.
And I love Nevermore.
You don't love Grateful, right?
What?
Just curious.
You don't love Grateful.
It's just like I was just completely messed up for a second.
Oh, fuck.
No, you didn't mess up.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
It was right.
I love you.
I was just like...
Thank you to everyone who was listening to this
and bear with our terrible English.
Yes, Dario said his English is also terrible.
So thank you all for bearing with us.
Thank you, guys.
We have five speakers speaking terrible English, Thank you all for bearing with us. Thank you, guys.
We have five speakers speaking terrible English,
but we actually speak English.
Like, the English guys can't just speak English.
They can't speak anything else, probably.
We are going to make it.
Yeah, we are going to make it.
Let's go.
And grateful.
Come on.
Send this fucking emoji when I'm speaking.
What is happening?
Is this like a, is this Elon rocking me?
Can I just done that?
I'm speechless.
I will never drop an emoji anymore in your space.
Three, two, one, goddammit, does not even help.
Yes, there you go, did you see?
Ha, this is how you actually can chase things.
You just need to believe.
Oh, we have Stefano like to come up.
I give you like five minutes, Stefano,
and then I have to actually leave
because I'm freezing my feet again
because I'm outside.
God damn it.
Why is it that cold in Switzerland, man?
It's like close to summer.
What's going on?
Stefano, what's up?
Can you hear us?
Still connecting.
Yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
I can hear you.
Hi, everyone.
Hey, what's up?
Yeah, I was just rolling around the spaces and I
and I looked at the name of your space and I said yes that's true. I mean, I
mean it depends on what means you made it actually. It's not for everybody the same. Yeah, but I think it's
applicable to any kind of
stuff, you know, making
like crafting and make it
like having success.
That's actually
a really good point. I really like that.
Yeah,
I mean,
till you make it it it's really something
which is
I think it's really
how you say this in English
there you go my bad English
right now but
there you go
yeah I mean
for me
I made it when I
actually reached my goal.
It was not actually the people or people how they see me.
But when it comes to actually, I think we are in a social environment, right?
We are always just speaking in a digital environment to each other.
We don't really know each other.
We just maybe know the story or some images some
some artworks so on but um when when you don't meet at real life events uh we are just like here
sitting in our social um world try to actually uh keep up and in the social world it's it's also
and also in the real world it's like you, you know that, it's like everybody,
like big, big musicians, and they don't need,
everybody has the eyes on them, right?
But new artists, new upcoming artists
who probably are the same good,
they don't even get there because they don't made it yet, right?
So nobody cares.
Absolutely.
I work in a music school, so I understand it.
Yeah, I mean, today, it's even more brainfuck
when you actually be on Instagram
and you see an account making probably the same stuff as you do,
but probably the most worst ever,
and they get like the 10 times reach, 100 times reach more than you do.
And you think about like why and how and what.
And at the end, it's really not good for your mental health.
And I think you need to go with your flow and how you can make it and it's not like
how they made it
that's something even I
even I is like sometimes
how is this guy doing it
what am I doing wrong
what is like what's going on
right and I think we ask
ourselves a lot but at the end
I think we know that we have to kick ourselves in as every
every day it's every day doing stuff you don't really like to do it's like doing the stuff you
have to do and at the end do the stuff you like to do and and this together is just a really
powerful tool and and i think you will make it if you follow all these rules.
If you just stay there and try to chase the next win and think,
oh, why was this even possible to get this amount of money for this shitty piece or whatever?
It doesn't even matter because they don't care.
They don't care about you.
Even if you don't make the best art
even if there is no story there is no emotions there is no nothing to share about the art
nobody will care so i think many people today who have success even they do the worst shit they are
just really really good in promoting their self or they don't even feel fear of trying like the fear of
just trying and failing is so big that you even you will never try i feel i would still sit here
trying to get into super rare because everybody tells me you should not drop any nft on open sea like that was the first thing in 2021 it's like you're
an artist you should try to make one of one art and and that's it and you will not like grow to
like a big nft artist if you do an opposite and if you listen to yourself and try to do what you like to do and how you chase it it's like
it's your world it's not their world and there are so many ways nobody should tell you how to do it
till you make it yeah but what is what do you think about the the people that are just artists and can't promote themselves properly i mean
that i i try to do my best and i'm not talking about me but i know a lot of artists that are not
very able to to perform as self-publishers or self-explainers,
but they just do beautiful art and they cannot speak,
but accept art, you know.
They can make a beautiful painting,
but they can't explain it or they won't explain it
to the people, they just make it.
Yeah, I think it's an excuse. So, before- just make it. Yeah.
I think it's an excuse.
No, I don't think so. I don't think so.
I think today you can make the crappiest sketch,
even if it's just words, randomly words,
and you put it into an AI and it sorts it out.
And then you read it and then you you think
okay that's actually really true and it's actually what i like to say but it's like
because i i can't even like make a sentence in german which sounds like it would sound right. It's just a big mess every time.
I don't know.
I was the same.
I mean, I was really the same.
When I was a kid, I was really introverted.
I was always the smallest guy. I don't have a big brother.
Every of my friends had a big brother.
I was just smashed from every angle.
And you know what I mean it's like
and I need to learn actually to get out like get out of of my comfort zone get out to actually
speak to people actually try to even speak to myself and say hey what am I doing here I can
do art yeah that's nice but nobody cares about art when they don't see the connection between the artist and them, right?
I think it's kind of an excuse, if you ask me,
but it's also really personal, so it's hard to say.
I was just wondering, because I understand perfectly what you said before so
and the 50% is a chance is the opportunity to talk to people like in the right time in the right space in the right place and
with the right words and without any
kind of errors
kind of errors
flawlessly, you know, but
flawlessly, you know, but
I'm not doing now
What I tried to do for two hours straight and I completely failed
Oh, fuck, great group up on the stage
Dario, what's your native language?
Sorry, if I can
Sorry
What is your native language, Sorry if I can Sorry, what is your native language if I can ask?
Swiss German
Okay
It's very difficult
Not even German, it's Swiss German
Yeah
Understand what we what we talk about
Yeah
Yeah, so we can speak Italian a little bit. Non parli bene italiano, ma un po'.
Vai, ti capisco molto bene, invece.
Where are you from?
I'm from Ravenna, Italy.
From Rome?
Ravenna, Ravenna.
It's between Venice and Rimini.
In the middle.
Oh, okay.ini in the middle.
Okay, nice.
I'm from Lecce.
Okay, we got the visit of Charles from England a week ago. King Charles and Queen Camilla.
Was it the party? It was just... No, it's been nice for our city, I mean, for the tourism stuff.
And it was just...
I think they went just to Rome and to Ravenna, so it's been nice for us.
And for Mosaic artists that had the possibility to get viewed by them.
Awesome.
But I don't do mosaic, so it's not about me.
Correct. Yeah, there you go.
I'm a body painter, so I couldn't paint Charles naked.
couldn't paint charles naked so well i mean i i could try but yeah i i was just trying to chase my
Well, I mean, I could try.
um stats on instagram actually because but i i don't know how to sort it out give me a second
um grateful what are you doing on the stage here Good evening, hi guys!
Spaghetti pasta, pizza, Hawaii, right? With pineapple, right?
I know that, I know that.
Feels like a minion stage, goddamn it.
Guys, what's up?
What's up, what's up? I've been listening.
Man, it's like a flashback, bro.
He's taking notes, this is why he can't actually come up with any emotion.
I don't take any notes anymore.
I just use chat GPT for that.
It's so much better.
But man, I have a flashback, Daria.
We've hosted so many spaces together.
You also...
Yeah, man.
We've hosted so many spaces together, bro.
God damn it. Yeah
With that lost punk by the way, right?
You remember that we don't have to get back into that but I
Think spaces are great tool for artists guys to be honest because I've seen
Basically selling whole collections just through spaces and Dario
I think he was one of the best in that, right?
Like you've hosted so many artists, also you sold your art.
Because it doesn't matter if you speak English or not.
I, you know, no one here on stage probably,
except Cirque, probably speak English, right?
But...
But...
But...
Come on, he also has... No, no, no. but but but in spaces you capture the emotions right you capture how you talk
about your art what you want to bring etc so I think it's really special tool
it's so much better than just sharing tweets.
And you can also connect with other artists here in this space
and you can share experiences, you can do co-ops, right?
And so on and so on.
But of course it takes some time.
And if you are new, you need to kind of build your network here, right?
But I still believe it's a great tool.
I think that's one of the reasons that Dario started this series, right?
Like to share stories of artists in this space and help everyone in this space.
So I love this idea and keep going, guys.
Keep going.
Appreciate you.
Grateful how you grilled Zerk really appreciate it no I
told that he he's the only one who speak I was missing something no I actually I
wasn't grilling I was bringing you Dario actually everyone else on the stage so
always having a peeps kind of sound in my ear when it's happening, probably.
Sorry.
But, yeah, really appreciate you coming up here and also supporting the space the whole time.
That's what it's all about.
And more and more people joined, actually.
That's fun.
I still have some time left to just randomly talk about shit.
I just tried to actually export my stats from Instagram.
I tell it loud so Elon can drop the space and go and go sleep.
It's funny because I was really,
I was just not having time to actually paint.
And as a painting artist,
it's really hard to actually make digital art in the same feed as you make with paintings.
It can work, but it's actually just too hard to actually do for me and having the time.
So getting back to physical work and like probably like last year somehow to actually start paint more and also record my process and shit and on the paint chart you actually see just how you can make it with chasing it like it's january whatever whatever, what the fuck, 19th January till 31 of January.
I had like, I know it's Swiss, it's German,
so nobody understands it.
But it's actually like a 60K views on average in a month.
And the stats from this month is like 1.6 million views.
And it's just a massive increase, so how did i do that it's like
it's it's always really hard because everybody is really different and everybody has a different
niche like even if you're an artist you have a different niche and and it's really hard to say
it that way but what what i can say is like i put time and effort in it to actually find out
what works and what does not work and i actually excluded what does not work and i try to make more
what works because social doesn't even care about what you do they just like to see what they like
to see so that's what i try to chase on instagram right now is like to get more reach which is free it's like you you need to take
the time to actually do the content for it and if you don't see any success and it's really hard to
actually keep posting and keep pushing because it's not even worth it right so but i can't just
with this i just like to actually motivate people that it's possible and as more you dive
into it as more you research and research means uh don't use ai they don't even know um
just go and watch some tutorials it's like for me i i'm self-taught like over like the last
15 years probably just learning shit from YouTube.
And today the content is so good and so on point and always on time
that you can't even miss it.
It's just you have to do it.
And for me, it's a game changer
because 1.6 million views in one month is just ridiculous.
If you think about how many people there will be,
if you will make like a concert and shit,
it's just ridiculous, right?
But yeah, that's actually why I was thinking,
okay, it's like a good time for me to share some insights
and help people to understand why
and maybe how they can reach to the next level
and till they actually make it what it means for them.
It's always different, but I hope the insight helps.
Grateful.
How many views do you get?
20, 30?
How many what?
Do you like to come to school one day i can sell you like a course it's just
five eve per hour and you can send it straight to my wallet how does it sound sounds great yeah
awesome i can also invite you to switzerland for this price actually so you can come over
we can make a weekend for it. Guys, I already did.
What was the year, Dario? This was actually when Apes was actually like 140 EVE worth.
And he was actually able to...
Fly private, yeah. Don't say it.
Fly to Switzerland to eat pasta and applesauce.
I mean, God fucking damn it.
Yep. Dario invited me for pasta and applesauce with me god fucking damn it yep Dario invited me for pasta
and applesauce so everyone from Italy bacon and cheese yeah crazy guys and
Nutella guys can you imagine and then he bought pizza with pineapple and and
pasta with ketchup guys so yeah I know we don't talk about tickers but
pasta with applesauce would probably be good too yeah never mind now we talked
about art here it's a way of art yeah kind of yeah maybe okay if you make 100 extra with people like uh pasta with applesauce
i'm on 100 with you that's that's well catalan made the something with the banana so just 10
people left because they they hear ticker god damn it. Okay, we need to close the room.
Grateful start tagging stuff on the Jumbotron.
God damn it.
Oh, it's actually my art.
You can do that.
I love orange.
You always hate about the orange,
and you actually have orange background in your derivative ape?
Does anybody
know that?
Yeah, why do you think I hate orange, bro?
Where do you think
it started?
I love orange.
I actually printed this one, man,
on a very
solid, I think it's even metal
piece, and I have it in my living room still,
so it's amazing. Appreciate it. Stefano, you're an artist as well, right? Or did I get it wrong?
Wrong I don't know. I'm a body painter a photographer an artist an actor singer. I
Live or not mainly and and next year also a mosaic artist
maybe
No, actually I can I can do more like but I don't like it as a
as a reference, you know, I
Started doing music with my sister when I was 12 years old, maybe
But there she she prefers the style of Frieden Shrike under twas. So I don't know if you know it I
Can't even that that I even can
Remember grateful's name is even
I can't even like even artists. I mean like the most famous artists, I was like, God, how was the name of this?
Ridiculous.
I just skipped art school, actually.
Don't forget my name.
Come on and watch my art on my collection, if you want.
Yeah, sure, I will do that.
I just checked your paint.
Is this AI or is this?
No, it's photography.
The one with the eyes, the only one is the robot
on the background of the girl.
The rest is all photo manipulation on Photoshop
and photography.
Photography, body paint and photography.
But I do on my own.
Nice.
And you do a lot.
How long are you an artist?
Or how long are you a body painter?
I'm an artist
since 42
years.
And I'm 42.
And I'm a body painter since 13 years ago you're an artist for 42 years
and you're 42 yes no actually i started drawing when i was eight when i was eight and I started acting when I was seven so you can say 30 years
yeah that's a long time actually yeah but yeah I will have a little career bust
on so sorry I will have a little career boots on May 15th, I hope because it will be a more upcoming movie with my voice and also I will be filming the same day
With an important Italian actor. So cross the fingers. Oh
You're the voice
Yeah, I'm the voice in a movie and I will sing a song
from The voice for the actor the whole time Yeah, I'm the voice in a movie and I will sing a song from...
You're the voice for the actor the whole time?
No, no, no, I will...
Well, I've been singing a song in a scene in a small role.
I was just filling up some cables in a landscape,
but the main part is my singing. I will be very small on the screen,
but everybody will be listening to me singing.
And on May 15th, I will be shooting with Claudio Bisio.
I don't know if you know him.
Another name, but who is he?
Yeah, I think it's an Italian actor it's a comedian very famous here so I hope I get more
visibility for for that kind of art and yeah yeah that's amazing congrats to that and actually it's
it's it's always good to have stuff like that that's um it's i mean that's also
something uh like the title it's it's really crazy how how many times in life you actually
have this moment of kind of success where you actually think now i made it right so it's like
many i had many times,
even in the smallest parts of my artist career,
I was like having my first exhibitions.
And then I was like, I make street art,
which was really fucking crazy bad.
And I was selling an artwork for like 20 bucks.
And I sold it and I was like, now I i made it i can make a living from my art because i sold an artwork for 20 bucks right it's true yeah somehow right and then
it's funny then the next thing is coming it gets it gets a little bigger and a little bigger
it's a little bigger and a little bigger yeah don't don't uh i if i can suggest to people don't
give up on your dreams if someone fulfills even with a crumble because uh yeah today is a crumble
tomorrow will be an entire bread
bread for me for me especially it's been 10 years I put myself I put all myself
into art 10 years ago and now I can make a living on it and I can rest without
thinking oh my gosh I need this and it
Is it me or Stefano who is rugging?
God damn it.
Sorry?
Oh, you were rugging the last sentence was lost in the space.
Okay, no, no, I said I'm not struggling anymore.
I mean, 10 years ago I was struggling.
I was making a good living on something that I didn't like.
You know, I was a programmer, I was a video maker, a designer, but yeah, I liked it somehow,
but it wasn't my goal in life.
So I decided to stop and completely myself into art and into what I love.
And yeah, now I'm very happy about it.
Living from that.
Sorry?
And it's a real, it's easy to live from that right now.
So it's, yeah, it's not so easy, but I mean, do you struggle sometimes with bills or is it just fine?
Yeah, sometimes, but it's because uh we passed through kovid and it's been yeah
you're italian you struggle a lot of different than we have so it's like i know how the country
is actually i don't like the middle south is like they are man that's crazy yeah and if you live in cities like Milan you could be
Maybe that if you try to do this
for example the the rent costs
half
of your
Dependent you are not saying now. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's I
For my family. So it's crazy how different it is.
But it's nice that you actually can make a living from it.
For me, it was always, I mean, we are Swiss.
We are really secure, right?
Even I had success in Web3.
web3 I quit my job
Everybody was like, I go full Web3.
I quit my job. I was like, what the fuck is happening?
is happening
because I
always had my 60%
day job
they are close friends and I
love to do graphic design
and shit but it was like
why do you not
quitting so for me
it was always like this
even if it's like 3K in Switzerland, it's not a lot
because you just pay too much rent, actually.
You make 3K from your 60% day job
and you can't pay all your bills, probably like most of it,
without buying anything else.
In Italy, it's about 1,000, 1k, maybe 1k
But you don't like to take a taxi from here to the airport bro
Trust me
Already close to sell one ape to actually
Get out of all the laws
He paid 10 bucks for a water but a small one man it was
the smallest water I've ever had ten bucks ten bucks can you believe it I
drink from from the rubinet but you need to tap your credit card even for tub
water man so I wanted to pay just tub water from the toilet
The cop was actually five bucks, right?
It was ridiculous. Oh, man. It's it's so crazy
but um
Yeah, it's I think it's for me
That was always like I just need to have something which covers the bills
and then I have a little bit more free brain to actually breathe.
Everybody is different, but I think it's a really good thing to have this,
and also for the balance between work and making art
or making a living as an artist.
So I have a deal. you have to spread my voice
in Switzerland so you have to send my art all my art in Switzerland I'll be
happy you'll be happy and I can finally make a real living on my own.
Yeah, if you can live in Switzerland, then we can talk, right? Then you made it.
No, but send over your movie when it's here, so I'd like to check this out.
For sure, for sure.
Well, the movie would be Paterna Livre.
Well, it's a name, so you don't remember.
Yeah, but you send it over, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Maybe.
Yeah, thanks for joining.
Really appreciate that.
And anybody else, if anybody has something to ask,
feel free to come up to the stage.
I give it another 10 minutes, and then I wrap up.
Because my feet are fucking freezing.
Oh, man.
How much does it cost to warm them up?
To warm them up?
Actually, too much because we need to chase them.
Okay.
Dario didn't sell his punk so he doesn't have a heater.
Guys, I just got an energy bill,
and it's even from a quarter.
It's not the whole fucking year.
It was 2,000 bucks.
And you think Web3 is expensive?
God damn it.
I mean, come to Switzerland,
and you're just rock pulled every fucking
day um yeah two thousand bucks for just energy it's not even water in there like out f i mean
yeah but anyway you need to cut this out of the space we can't um yeah let's say uh happy eastern and thanks for joining uh i think
we wrap this up here but uh was a pleasure and hopefully to the next one need to see how how
often i can make this but the weekend feels kind of right so era happy Eastern if you celebrate that and if not happy
weekend also never more keep grinding and also I love to see the improvement
on your website I'm watching thank you bro thank you very much for the spaces
happy Eastern to everyone Dario never more hired me to improve his website so
I'll send you preview so you can you can check it out did someone? I can't hear anything. Serge, was it you?
Okay.
It was an amazing space, guys.
I really enjoyed it.
It was one of the space that I have joined recently,
because I left doing space or hosting space for a long time.
But you bring up this topic,
and I really enjoyed speaking about art artists and
how to uh develop culture here in that tree so next time let's uh gather up a better group of
people and a better group or crawls no no i mean no no i mean more artists and to learn or to
experience to share our experience, et cetera.
So I will be sharing with my group chats.
So looking forward to the next space, guys.
Thank you for everyone doing.
Appreciate you, Zerk, and everybody else listening the whole time.
Yeah.
Happy Eastern.
Enjoy the families and the good life.
And see you soon cheers don't even
have a Finnish song here
