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Nobody Sausage, HEEBOO & BIG Coinbase news! on Coffee w/Captain #1,055
Recorded: Dec. 18, 2025 Duration: 2:31:21Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, key topics included strategic partnerships in the crypto space, emerging trends in DeFi, and the importance of new token launches and fundraising efforts. The conversation also highlighted growth opportunities through yield strategies and the need for hiring talent to support ongoing innovation, while acknowledging signs of decline in trading activity.
Full Transcription
Got coins, see where y'all going, been poppin' since web 1, hella hoax on web 2, I was livin'
a dream, now I'm on web 3, and it is what it seems, top of a pyramid scheme, I'm tellin'
ya, I'll sell you a percentage on Nebula, shout out to Vince, yo, set up, surfin' on
the web and I'm streetin' at 3, I've been golden when I got my G, I'm an alien boy,
from a different planet, yeah, so I got my drink, I'm ridin' in the 1920s, Model a different planet, yeah So I got my drink, I'm riding in the 1920s, Model T Ford
Car, era, Lord
Call me Levi, playing on the keys, boy
And I'm about to put my gloves on
If I said it, then I meant that
Yeah, I like that one, I'm about to get that
Crash that whip for the drumsticks, whip blast
I'm about to get them all, are you with that?
In a white boat, surrounded by blue
I want one, but I got a cocktail
I wanna fly high in the sky Arms out wide, trying to swim I'm on fire Ricky Bobby Cracking the pavement Whitney Bobby
I'm a Saki bomb Hiroshima Nagasaki Bruce Wayne been a dog and I keep it 101 cuz I'm
feeling kind of spotty Sipping on some rock and I'm sippin' on octane The only thing around my neck is the blockchain
Now I got coin I see where y'all goin'
Been poppin' since web one Hella hope you're on web two
I was livin' the dream Now I'm on web three
And it is what it seems Toppin' the pyramid schemes
I'm tellin' ya I sell you a percentage on Nebula
Shout out to Viz Yo, set it up
NFT Twitter, blockchain See em with the gold ghosts and we ballin' like the Brown J
Crypto, crypto
We can make a trade, get the memo
But feels not fallin' for the FOMO
Listenin' to coffee with Cap'n
You know we weren't wide-day loco
I ain't never gon' stop rappin'
Orlando, yeah, we workin' magic
We rockin' Ethereum entities
I just went and caught me a half bass
Man, I gotta shout out to 40
Now I got coin, I see where y'all goin'
Been poppin' since web one, hella hoax on web two
I was livin' the dream, now I'm on web three
And it is what it seems, top in the pyramid schemes
I'm tellin' ya, I sell you a percentage on Nebula
Shout out to Vince, yo, set it up
Breakin' the mood to choose one
Bunny got knowledge to move son
I'm shocking in shades with my brother in shoes
Yeah, them blues is coming
Even though it's hard to pick, eeny mighty mo
Soda on the mix, no biting lips, it's time to go
Index number one, no thumbs up, you gotta scroll
Looking at the ghosts in studio, it's time to go
Had a helmet on by myself until I met a mask
Dad wanted to have a face off, had to bring my chainsaw full ticket gas in the drive with my brakes off.
I'm a one but a different kind of stakes off.
Welcome to Coffee with Captain, powered by ApeCoin, where we dive into all things crypto,
NFTs, web free and cutting edge technology.
Remember, nothing here is financial advice.
Early stage tech can be exceptionally volatile and risky.
So grab your coffee and join Cap and Steve for today's conversation.
Welcome to the future.
Welcome to Coffee with Captain GM.
Thanks so much for joining us.
If you haven't done so, do us a favor.
Drop us a GM in the chat down below.
Then head up top, smash that like, repost, and bookmark on the day space.
We greatly appreciate it.
It warms up the algo and does us a real solid.
Also up top, you'll find the link to the YouTube chat, the abstract chat, as well as the X video feed.
Appreciate all the GMers in all those spots.
Even Mel, who was the first GM in the video chat this morning, usually first GM in the spaces chat.
But I think I was a little late hitting the go live button.
So that's on me.
RDL, Zane, appreciate you both over there.
Teacher Katie, double dipping in YouTube and abstract. Teacher Katie's, I don't
know. She's, I think might be having a, I'm not saying she's a farm war, but she's getting after
it. And I hope she gets a massive abstract token drop someday. Hopefully no time soon because boy,
oh boy,
if I was a team,
I would not want to be dropping a TGE right now.
It's funny as many delayed for perfect market conditions.
And now it's seemingly many are rushing to get a TG out before the end of
the year.
I don't get it.
It makes no sense to me.
I would be deferring and deferring and deferring. Yesterday, during the show, near the end of the show, we had the
major red candle followed by a god candle followed by, and then we ended the show and
then it pulled back. And I think we ended up down, Bitcoin's back basically flat on the 24-hour, ETH down a percent and a half.
Alts got crushed anywhere from a few percent down to Fartcoin down 20%, hype down 11%. I put it in the title is, is the hype is the hype over?
And I don't, it's not over, over.
It's a little hyperbole, very bullish, hyper liquid long-term.
However, like I, before, like I, when I was LP and like hype was one of the LPs was my,
um, Ooh, I just got a big announcement coming soon. Sorry. I got distracted.
Saw some announcement. I saw a text came in about a half hour ago. Uh, I got some alpha.
I got some alpha. I'm not going to share, not my place to share yet, unless they tell me I can share or tease it. But I'm just going to say this. One of my, make sure this is okay. One of my favorite
brands in the space is going multi-chain. That's all I'm going to say for now. The
back to hype and really a lot, big news day. So first of all, give us a like, a repost, a bookmark.
We've got a special guest joining us here at 9 a.m.
and would love to have a full house in here.
They bring a crowd with them.
So even if we're not fully loaded with a couple hundred people in here at 9,
I certainly suspect the Klaino's community will roll deep as they often do.
Excited to chat with that team.
I think there may be an announcement or two. some alpha coming out of that group as well. So you're definitely not going to miss our special guest at nine.
wants to join any of these conversations, as always, open stage. I have to disclaimer,
I'm not a financial advisor, certainly not your financial advisor. Don't join us for that. Just
join us for some fun, some information, maybe a little bit of education along the way.
A lot of news yesterday. Forget the, I mean, don't forget it, the crazy volatile market.
It is not normal price action. No one can convince me otherwise. People with a lot bigger,
a lot larger amount of capital than myself doing some chart things.
I really don't even know what to make of it.
Maybe some of it was speculating on the Trump announcement last night, which ended up to be, I don't want to say a nothing burger.
I don't want to say a nothing burger.
It's awesome that our military, I don't know,
I assume it's active military getting a $1,776 STEMI.
I don't think that's, I think that's maybe,
I definitely don't think that's the end of STEMIs.
I think that maybe this is like a smaller test, a smaller group,
a smaller amount.
I certainly expect something else coming,
whether it's the tariff rebates they've teased, or I think Bessette said a $1,000 to $2,000 tax
refund. I'm pretty sure something's coming in Q1. As I've said before, I think majority,
a large portion of that will go straight into casinos, the casinos of their choice, whether it's lottery tickets or scratch offs or prediction markets or sports books or crypto or soon perps on equities on Coinbase.
We'll get to that in a second.
If anyone, I have no obligations, no pressure.
I know you watched
the Coinbase announcement as well. That's the most notes I have coming into today is to break
that down. Pretty major update. I'll go grab it, put it up top. Don't leave us. Don't go watch the
video. It's like an hour long. I'm also going to give some feedback while I'm at it on this exact
topic on Coinbase. Maybe there's no way when they do the video like this,
but like on a space, after the space,
if I wanted to choose a start time, I can.
This is like a, it looks like it's like,
I don't know, like a 90 minute video.
It's not, it's like 60 minute presentation,
but the first half hour is just like,
this show will begin momentarily be better that's i mean the this is the suggestion the solution is don't have 30
minutes of dead time and a recorded video i think you can cut that out at post-production
if not maybe don't i mean i understand why you want to warm up an audience. I get that.
But for the recordings, unless you just can't do it on a video on X, maybe that's the case. If so, Elon, fix that and make it just like you can on Spaces where you can set the start time where it actually starts.
Or in the first comment, say, hey, the presentation starts at 29 minutes and 30 seconds into the video.
Because first little problems. I'm not going to rant any longer on that. presentation starts at 29 minutes and 30 seconds into the, uh, into the video. Cause I, first of
all problems, I, I'm not going to rant any longer on that, but, um, mildly frustrating trying to
find the starting point. Um, yeah, they did the last time too. Um, so I do want to dive into the
Coinbase conversation. I have a feeling there's a lot to unpack there. I have a feeling there's
probably going to take the bulk of the next 50 minutes.
A couple other Flyover items.
And then Oxy, I'm guessing you came in to get in on either yesterday's crazy price action and volatility in the market or this Coinbase presentation. In addition, so the other things, in addition to the Coinbase news,
we had Gandhi making a splash. It seems like a small deal,
but they added zero fee peer-to-peer trading to its platform, inviting everyone to make offers and close deals. Gandhi trades.
You know, I was going to post the Gandhi trades, but instead of that, I'm going to give my guy
Bored Ape Gazette some love here. If you're not following Bored Ape Gazette, go give him a follow.
It is, yes, it's Yuga ecosystem. It's ape ecosystem centric, but just one of the great content creators.
I think really, truly underrated content
creators in all of Crypto on Web 3.
I think doesn't get the credit he probably
deserves because he is ape centric.
But the guy's just
for all intents and purposes has been as
consistent as us here on Coffee with Captain
for as long as I can remember
just in the written form. So a great
follow, great account. go give that a follow.
He also tagged the Gandhi official account.
So if you want to see the announcement directly from them, you can click through.
Normally, we may not even hit on peer-to-peer trades.
It's not new.
It has been out before.
it's noteworthy because
what I saw was a lot of
crypto Twitter
directly tying that into OpenSea
which no longer has that feature
I'm going to hold on my other comments
until we start talking Coinbase
I do, I do.
I think it's a direct shot at OpenSea and some of the NFT.
I don't want to say NFT purists.
I don't know if that exists anymore.
Some of the, you know, those that are deep in NFT collecting, trading, etc.
A lot of people use Gandhi. A lot of people use Gandhi for loans.
A lot of people use Gandhi.
A lot of people use Gandhi for loans.
I could see them making a bigger push in capturing a material amount of that market share as far as NFT marketplaces go.
And maybe I'm wrong, but the response convoluted with a pre TG farm.
And I text someone this morning,
like I got,
I Steve has any,
a massive job in front of him.
And I told him this this morning I'll share on the show.
Like I think it might be, it might go down. Like he lands this plane, job in front of him and i told him this this morning i'll share on the show like i think
it might be it might go down like he lands this plane on this rewards uh
and tge all that leading into it like i told him i go they they literally they owe you legit
generational wealth because i don't know if there's a better person in the space they could
attempt to navigate this it's just a very and a lot of what I think he's solving for fixing now is challenges,
problems, things that he inherited. It was all communication. Things were already rolled out,
already done before them. And very, very challenging thing to course correct. I see
some doopies out there. That's the other flyover news
is they did reveal, I guess, the 0.5 floor. Maybe I think it will get down there eventually,
but right now their floor is sitting, only dropped 26%, which post-reveal is not bad.
I mean, you got to figure in when you know they had 150 101s. That expected value was certainly
Value was certainly baked into the floor price pre-reveal, which basically ended up being right at mid price.
baked into the floor price pre-reveal, which basically ended up being right at mint price.
Floor now is 0.79 Sol.
I did see a lot of rares.
I sold a lot of one of the one-on-one sell quickly, like short soon after reveal.
I'm just scanning last few hours.
Doesn't seem like many of the rares.
Most are like floor slightly above.
But people are collecting what they want to collect.
Reveals are fun.
There's one for 3.2 Soul.
A lot of seemingly, I don't know, I'm assuming
with intent, a lot of sexual innuendos
in this collection, which I wasn't expecting.
Some unique, some
interesting ones, some odd ones.
the arts, it's unique. It's
very on-brand for doodles.
And I wish things would have transpired a little differently in terms of their
execution and communications around that meant,
I think things could have turned out significantly differently,
but I hope some of my friends pulled some rare.
Hope some of you were able to collect what you want, and I do miss reveal season.
So other news items, and then I promise Oxy will get you in here, and then we'll welcome Rex to the stage after that.
So we hit on Gandhi. Talk about is the hype over. It's not over, over, but short term, a lot of pressure on that token.
a lot of pressure on that token.
For the first time, I considered unstaking my hype.
I don't have a ton, but at this point,
I think I still have to wait seven days anyways.
I don't have a place I would necessarily rotate that into
other than stables, and I feel like I'd be selling a bottom.
Although, there's a lot of sell pressure seemingly.
Now we talked yesterday, they're going to burn their assistance fund,
I think it's called, which really wasn't being used.
It was kind of where those tokens were just going, you know,
when they were buying back tokens, what they would go into, but it wasn't like a,
it wasn't a ecosystem fund or a,
I still don't really know what the,
why they did it initially as opposed to just going direct to a burn.
But I think that'll probably end up getting burned,
I guess like 13% of the circulating supply.
The other issue, two challenges for Vyper Liquid, one is Coinbase.
We're going to go on that conversation here in a second because a lot of people talk about becoming the everything app.
It's early.
They just launched,
but Coinbase is doing it,
like making,
from my perspective,
the best we've seen so far with,
like,
man,
and they have just,
like,
it's,
I'm going to hold my more Coinbase thoughts
because that'll probably,
everybody,
that'll probably take us off on that tangent.
Anyways, last thought on Hyperliquid, then we're going to go to Oxy and get your thoughts on all this.
I'm taking it at face value.
I take it to be true.
I didn't confirm it.
But Kook sent this out yesterday.
So Hyperliquid team unlocks are just under 10 million tokens a month for 23 more months.
That team didn't take a dime.
They just hit their year anniversary.
I assume some of the teams sold after their first unlock,
but it's unlocks continue for another two years and it's just under 10 million
tokens per month.
So compare relative to that assistance fund, which has accumulated 37 million tokens since
its inception, he follows on his own comments here. In his opinion, we see hype under $10.
Nothing can offset these unlocks unless they don't sell. And he says, I'm DCing all the way
down, by the way. So that's kind of where I'm at. I don't think I'm a buyer here.
I probably should unstake and sell.
I'm just going to let that ride and consider buying.
If it goes under 10, I will be a buyer.
However, the other now headwind they're facing is direct competition from Coinbase.
Coinbase is direct competition from Coinbase. Coinbase is launching, or it's maybe launched,
perps and decks. And we'll get into all that in a second, but I want to take a beat. Welcome,
Oxy. This is OxyGM. Appreciate you jumping up. Really been enjoying our conversations here
over the last month or so on coffee. What spoke to you this morning?
What particularly is it?
The price action yesterday?
Is it Hyperliquid, Coinbase, Gandhi, all the above?
Take it wherever you'd like.
All the above, man, really.
I mean, and likewise, it's been great being up here
so much recently and chatting with you.
It's been a lot of fun.
But yeah, it's a little bit of everything, to be honest with you.
I mean, I think the hyper liquid news is obviously interesting.
It really is going to boil down to, I guess it ties into Coinbase a little bit.
It's going to really boil down to where people feel comfortable trading with leverage at the end of the day. If people start trading perps on Coinbase and then their account gets lost
and that whole thing boils to the surface again,
where people don't feel comfortable using Coinbase,
then maybe they're going to be looking for something like a Hyperliquid or another DEX.
And I guess something interesting about all that is currently hyper liquid isn't available
in the US and but coinbase seemingly is all is allowed to offer yeah yeah is it is it is it
hyper liquid simply taking the super conservative approach and like we just don't even want to go
there or did coinbase go secure some sort of license or something that enables them to do this?
I know this probably sounds, I just don't know.
I don't understand how this and Hyperliquid is still, I have to go to Germany every time
I want to trade perps.
Yeah, I'm with you.
I don't really understand it either.
And there's been a lot of litigation by the SEC on perps platforms in the past for
companies offering perp trading to people in the US without restricting it. So I'm not super clear
on this. This is someone else might know better than me on the legalities of it. But I guess if
Coinbase is doing it, I don't know why Hyperliquid wouldn't follow suit. So all that to go back and say like, okay, Coinbase, I mean, they're positioned really
well. A lot of people have their crypto on Coinbase, especially in the US. If they can trade
perps right from their account there, then the friction isn't there to have to transfer on
Arbitrum USDC to Arbitrum,
and then from Arbitrum deposit into Hyperliquid,
and then, you know, that whole rigmarole.
So I think it's interesting.
I feel like you're taking a direct shot at Crocs there.
Crocs, when you listen to this playback earlier, it's a joke.
But yeah, it's like, I like Hyperliquid platform,
but I also know you do got to kind of,
I mean, it's not overly difficult it's also
not nearly as intuitive and easy as will be on coinbase sure yeah no completely completely agree
and i guess related to just hyperliquid in general i i think i understand um you know the concerns
with you know team on lax and selling we always knew this was going to happen.
And I think the price is going to hurt because of it, just because the team, I don't know.
I think if the team has tokens, they should be allowed to sell, sell and make a little
bit of money off of their, their hard work.
I do.
I do feel that way.
Um, but at the end of the day, I think it's the best decentralized platform, you know,
decentralized with quotes around it, I guess, platform out there that offers a service.
So I think it's positioned well.
So I don't think it's in trouble to be honest.
Like, I think there will probably be some some PVP there between Coinbase and Hyperliquid.
But there's always going to be people that are on chain only that are going to be trading on, on something like a hyper liquid.
Yeah.
one of the questions on that,
like,
do you,
this,
this is also probably like odd to say,
but I'm trying to get the words out.
So I don't sound like a freaking idiot,
but wouldn't it be better to trade perps on hyper liquid?
Like these whales are when they open up positions on,
I'm saying all right,
Coinbase would be better to trade perps on Coinbase because when these whales
open large positions on hyper liquid,
it's,
it's on chain and it's everyone can see it.
And whether it's James Wood, what was the guy who got, whether it's Mott.
James Wynn.
James Wynn or like they get attacked.
Like I don't, I'm certain that maybe it's not coordinated, but I think probably has been.
Like, is this making any sense at all?
Like, isn't there a quote unquoteunquote competitive advantage to opening, especially
if you're going with size, opening those positions on Coinbase where the general public can't
see who and what exactly is doing it?
Yeah, that's an interesting question.
I think what the concern might end up being is, will Coinbase be the one that's kind of going
after them?
Because they're going to be the ones eating off of the liquidation events kind of a deal
if they're playing the other side or what have you.
So this was kind of the whole thing on the timeline where people were speculating, oh,
okay, it's actually Binance that's going out and liquidating these people so that people will move to their exchange and then they can make money off the
fees and the liquidations and whatnot. So yeah, it's a good question. I don't know how they're
going to have it set up. It's probably going to be a black box that only they can see who's opening
these positions and whatnot. But again, it's going to be on Coinbase, it's also going to be KYCDU.
So people try to avoid that or big whales try to avoid that
when it comes to their trading and their money.
So yeah, it's an interesting point for sure.
I don't know how they're going to have it set up
if it's going to be a black box
and no one can see what their trades are.
That's how it is on everything else on Coinbase.
Unless New Dex is truly open and an open public ledger.
I don't know how I feel about it.
I appreciate options.
I certainly appreciate the ability to custody my own assets.
I'm lagging on video.
Is my audio coming through everyone?
Can you give me a confirmation in all the chats if it might glitch at all?
Or am I good?
You're good on stage.
Okay, thanks.
I appreciate the ability to custody my own assets.
I think blockchain and permissionless and publicly,
it's all great at the same time.
I'm going to start sounding like mer.
Privacy does matter.
And for many reasons,
I can see why funds and high net worth individuals don't want it to be known about their six, seven, eight, nine figure open positions.
I don't know.
Moving on from that, a lot to unpack from this announcement.
before we continue on with everything that Coinbase wrote out.
And I don't think there's much else to hit on on Gandhi
or necessarily hype or hyperliquid directly,
although it may interweave with the Coinbase conversation.
Before we go there, Rex, GM, welcome to the stage.
I think first time caller, what brought you up this morning?
Hey, GM, GM.
Yeah, no, it's been a while since I hopped up here. I've been just kind of in the crowd learning and listening quite a bit lately. to the stage i think first time caller what what brought you up this morning hey uh gmgm yeah no
it's been a while since i hopped up here i've been just kind of in the crowd learning and listening
quite a bit lately um the reason that i'm actually i wanted to hop up was because yesterday i actually
was in this scenario where i was trying to trade uh nft for nft and i actually uh i tried pseudo
swap rarible because openc as you said they I looked up the reason why, and they said it was because it was too complicated on the V2.
But, you know, regardless, I got to give some flowers to Gandhi, man.
They, that system, it was seamless.
It worked so well.
I was a little sketched out at first because I had never heard of it.
So obviously, I did some research before I did it.
But my gosh, man, they did an incredible job.
And it went through perfectly.
And yeah, I mean, it was just really nice to have a platform again that we could do that with.
Because I was really bummed out when I found out that OpenSea got rid of it.
They said it wasn't a huge, there wasn't a ton of people using it.
But I mean, geez, what else are you going to do in that scenario?
Trust trades, that's just the worst thing you can do, right?
I just wanted to, like I said, give a shout out.
That was really, really nice to have.
Can I ask, and I'm not trying to dox you by any means, are you in the U.S.?
Feel free to know comment if you don't want to answer.
No, no, no.
I am.
I actually live in Florida, so yeah no worries man i stream live and everything for gaming and stuff so no worries
awesome um great state by the way i'm a big fan um my question then is because i i'm familiar with
gandhi i've been on i actually need to get the founder on here we've been back and forth many
times this would be a good time to reach back out. But when I first attempted to use Gandhi,
I couldn't,
it was geo restricted and I couldn't use it in the States.
Did you,
I'm sorry,
this is probably inappropriate questions to be asking you on a live.
it's fine.
I had no VPN and it went through absolutely perfect.
Awesome.
That's what I was going to ask.
Like I wasn't,
so that's new.
Like it used to be, you used to have to you know leave these leave the states or use a vpn
um so yeah this is that's also noteworthy that it is now not no longer geo-restricted to the states
and presumably other other um other regions as well. So yeah, I, I, so is it a,
like, again, it's not a new feature. It's not a, Oh my God, this is,
this is incredible. We can now trade it. It's, I think the timing of it is it matters. I think
I didn't choose my words carefully here.
I use OpenSea.
Steve's one of my best friends.
I'm rooting for them.
I hope I get a big giant bag of OpenSea token allocation.
I think it's very clear that the sentiment from crypto Twitter and NFT traders as it relates to OpenSea is not great right now.
And it's not just the defarmers of the world.
Even the calm, cool, and collected B-check was stating his frustrations with the,
you know, you use the words farming their users.
It is a rewards program.
It's, you're like, it's a good rewards program.
It's just, it's, it really is getting convoluted with their upcoming TGE.
And I think had they launched the C token
back in January or June or whatever, earlier in 2025, I don't think people are complaining about this rewards program.
I don't. It's a good rewards program.
And it took me a while. I was very vocal against it.
It took me a while to understand the differences of rewarding their loyalty for TGE.
And then this rewards program, they are separate, separate buckets.
I'll take them at their word for that.
That said the market, it's not landing with the market.
The market is continually. I mean, you just see it on the timeline.
Anytime there's, Oh my God, another wave.
They share the foundation separate entity has mentioned, you just see it on the timeline. Anytime there's, oh my God, another wave. They share the foundation, separate entity,
as mentioned, TGE is coming in late Q1,
I believe was the exact words.
I could be wrong.
I know Q1.
I think they said late Q1.
So this isn't going to be the last wave.
There's probably going to be,
if you just, let's say it's March,
there's probably going to be at least six waves
would be my guess, maybe more.
I got to imagine it's frustrating there because it is a good rewards program.
They're working really hard.
They got a great team.
And with it most in crypto, it's hard to make everyone happy.
This one just seems to be, and NFT sentiment is at all time low low, which is their core user base.
So they've got a lot of headwinds.
They're attempting to navigate,
actually pretty good use of headwinds and navigate,
and we're talking OpenSea.
It would even be more fitting if Steve used Captain as his handle versus me.
If I could go back to 2021 and run this whole thing back,
I'd tell Steve he needs to be captain.
We could do coffee with captains is what we should have done.
Damn it, Steve.
That was right there for us.
Now he'd be perfect.
The captain left coffee with captain to go steer the ship through the
headwinds.
I'm just kidding.
I'm ending that.
It sounded a lot better in my head before I started talking out loud.
I digress.
Point being, as I think the reason there was maybe more of a buzz around peer-to-peer NFT swaps
when no one's really buying, collecting, or trading NFTs is because it is a direct shot at OpenSea and it's a feature
for NFT traders that they no longer have.
So it's like, I think it's, that's why you saw so many people talking about it is
this collective frustration with the OpenSea Rewards Program
and that they haven't TGE'd yet. And a lot of people, they don't,
I'm sure there's some people, myself is one of them, that I really care
about OpenSea.
I care about my friends there.
OpenSea has been a, is one of the, like if you had to list who are 10 companies in crypto, 10 crypto native companies that have a very realistic shot that should be going concern five years,
10 years down the road, they're on that list.
Like they're, they're, they've received a lot of funding.
They've done well.
Like they are largely, they were like,
they played a big role in the, in the NFT mania, in the NFT boom.
If not for open C being there,
I don't know what that cycle looks like.
I'm guessing a lot of people probably would have gotten scammed.
Maybe it doesn't catch the momentum it does.
They played a key role.
They're a cornerstone of the crypto-native protocols,
of the crypto native protocols, platforms, certainly marketplaces.
platforms, certainly marketplaces.
And they've, they have navigated other treacherous storms and,
and attacks shots at their bow.
I'm really pointed on with the sailing puns this morning, but bear with me.
I mean, it was first looks rare and a vampire attack.
And then you had blur and blur farming.
And then you had magic eat.
Like they've made it through at least three, and there was others as well.
But they've navigated a lot, and they, of all those I just listed, very, very clear to me, they're first in class when you talk about NFT marketplaces.
Now, herein lies the challenge.
NFTs aren't enough to sustain and grow that company. It's just not. It's just it's a niche. Unless there's a and maybe this is it. Maybe this is. I'm just talking out loud. I don't have the answers. Very tough. And I'm not envious of that team and having the decision they have to make right now, how they navigate this is a challenge.
Maybe, I understand they got to grow more.
They got to do more than just NFTs.
There's just not enough revenue, just an NFT, collectible NFTs today.
Maybe there is an opportunity in all things NFTs,
from RWAs to more collectibles.
Maybe they acquire someone like a Courtyard or a BZ.
Like, maybe, like, I just,
zooming out, trying to remove myself
or any emotions or personal feelings from the situation,
it seems like a lot of the major crypto players
are attempting to build an everything app.
I think sometimes, and I get it, I understand why,
I also believe sometimes specialization matters.
Sometimes, like go back to,
I think I've mentioned Good to Great
by Jim Collins before the book.
Like, what can you be the best in the world at?
Maybe you don't have to be the best in the world at everything. I don't know as if OpenSea is going to, I mean, they could be the best in the world at everything.
I don't know as if OpenSea is going to,
I mean,
they could be the best in the world at token swaps,
fungible tokens.
What I think they have a lead on and still a market dominance is non-fungible
tokens.
So again,
I'm talking out loud.
I'm just thinking this through,
especially after Coinbase's announcement yesterday, and we are going to get into these, I promise.
I don't know, maybe, maybe strategically, it makes sense to do more than just NFT marketplace.
But maybe becoming the everything app for crypto is more challenging than,, are you going to get a hundred percent
of that pie? No, it's just not going to happen. Especially now where you've got Coinbase has got
a lot more customers, better distribution and a better top of funnel. It just is what it is.
And they're building that. Whereas you might, you're never going to get a hundred percent
market share there. I'm not saying you get a hundred percent. You're never going to get 100% market share there. I'm not saying you get 100%. You're not going to get 50% market share there probably, but maybe you can get a
dominant market share in the world of non-fungible tokens beyond just collectibles,
beyond just NFT, PFPs, and art. I don't know what that looks like. I don't know what the time,
the realistic timeline for all other non-fungible tokens in terms of RWAs.
I don't even know how they play in that world.
I'm just, again, thinking out loud.
Rex, go ahead and get back in here.
Respond to that.
And then I do want to – I'm going to go ahead and flip the title while you do it.
We're going to start breaking down these.
I had five or six pretty key bullet points from the Coinbase announcement.
But go ahead, Rex.
Hey, I just wanted to one second what you're saying about
OpenSea, and I really hope for their success. Back in, I think it was like 2020, before Blur,
there was nothing else, right? They were the one and only, and they've always had smooth trading.
They've always been a safe and secure network or platform to trade on. I, for one, would be super bummed if they were not here in the future.
With that being said, I also agree that there's, it's a small niche in the large world of trading
that NFT solely to survive on, especially in this particular market.
I would love to see them maybe develop like partnerships with similar but different companies.
Maybe like, I know it's crazy, but like MetaMask or something like that, like create some sort of like a mutually beneficial partnership, right?
And grow together in a way that somehow it could like, maybe they come up with their own scenario that just like blows the market out of its shoes.
that just like blows the market out of its shoes.
I think that would be pretty cool.
I also think with Gandhi and them not doing this anymore,
I don't necessarily look at it as a bad thing either
because Gandhi, like them building their name, right?
They need something to kind of stand out as well
besides just the token, right?
And I think that that created a good segue for them
to kind of like our necessity. And so all in all, I think that that was a good segue for them to kind of like our necessity.
And so all in all, I think that that was a good move on their part,
one, to do it when they did.
But I also think that, you know, OpenSea, I guess it was just,
it wasn't because they didn't want to do it.
It was something to do with their platform, the V2,
and it just was too difficult to create safe trading.
So I think that was good for them to
step up and say like you know we're gonna take this out because you know ultimate safety for
the traders i think should be first and foremost you know um anyway i i just want to say shout out
to openc2 i uh i really hope they succeed and uh shout out to gandhi for you know creating a smooth
trade for me yesterday. Yeah, I didn't – I don't – like I'm not an engineer.
I'm not a dev.
So I'm not one to speak on this.
This is, again, probably another ignorant take.
But I don't – I don't understand why it's hard.
What's hard about a peer-to-peer swap?
I don't, again, that's probably, again,
I don't even know, I'm not qualified to speak on that.
I'm sure it is.
I'm not trying to downplay any devs or technical expertise,
but of all the stuff they're doing,
you could buy any NFT with any token on any chain.
I would think my brain, my brain says probably a easier technical lift than some of the other stuff they've done.
And they have a very, really talented team of engineers.
Like they're doing some cool stuff.
I just, again, that's one I strongly reconcile.
I'm not saying they should react immediately and bring peer-to-peer swaps back,
but the overarching point is I think the reason this is even a news item,
something that we're even spending minutes on, let alone a flyover on the show,
probably wouldn't even mention it if this is done eight months ago when OpenSea
saw the feature and there wasn't this ongoing frustration with their rewards program.
Oxy, I want to bring you back in here. I know you said you have some thoughts on this,
so maybe let's start. This probably wasn't the topic I thought we would start with. We talk
about Coinbase announcements. There's several. I actually wasn't the topic I thought we would start with. We talk about Coinbase announcements.
There's several.
I actually do a thread on this today because I don't know if I've seen a good post on here's everything they announced yesterday, breaking down that video.
Video is post up top after the show.
Don't do it right now.
But after the show, I would recommend.
It's probably a good listen.
I thought they really had me.
I was like, holy cow, this is a great event. And great event. And then I was like, I was dotted along,
everything was good. And then they brought on the crater coin guy.
I'm like, man, you just, you, you like every,
all the like goodwill and excitement you just built in me,
you just lost it when you have someone shilling crater coins on stage.
I digress. So it's not actually, you know what I am going to do since I had to listen to creator coin conversation. I'm going to do this. Oxy, let us know what you think about stable
coins. And the other quick announcement to slide in there, self-serving is the base app is now out
of beta. It's open to everyone. So I'm going to drop my ref link in the chat. I'm going to pin
it up top. If you've not downloaded the base app yet, do me a favor and click my ref link. I'd appreciate that.
It's rare that I don't shill ref links too often, but this is day one.
And yeah, I would appreciate a little extra love.
If you haven't done it yet, no obligations.
Or if someone wants to sign up, use mine and then drop your ref link in the chat.
You can do that as well.
But Oxy, take us through.
Why would someone want to, I guess, I don't know, the best word I can call it, like private
label, white label, a stable coin.
Why would they want a custom stable coin in partnership with Coinbase
versus just using USDC or another one or launching their own without Coinbase?
Yeah. Yeah. So some, some context here. So Coinbase tweeted,
inducing Coinbase custom stable coins, create a branded stable coin for your business backed
one-to-one by collateral custody by Coin coinbase and then bullet points earn rewards on activity seamless interoperability
across chains tap into coinbase global coinbase's global distribution so um i didn't even i didn't
even see this part or this clip or anything like that and then bread retweeted it and it's this is
really weird to me because obviously i don't know the structure of how they're doing this.
But a lot of speculation is that it's just USDC wrapped for a ticker for whatever company wants it.
So Starbucks wants a stablecoin.
It's USD wrapped to be star or whatever.
the star or whatever. And it's, it's their stable coin that's pegged to a dollar. This,
And it's their stablecoin that's pegged to a dollar.
I like, I guess I don't really understand the point of this because the reason why people are
getting in stable coins isn't because they want the ticker. They want the yield that's behind,
you know, backing the, the, the, the stable coin. So like mega use with USDM, the reason why they're
issuing their own stable coin is because they're earning 4% for every minted token that's out there, for every dollar that's out there.
So I don't understand what the product is going to be, given how close Coinbase has been tied to Circle and their USDC relationship there,
it makes me feel like it's just a wrapped stablecoin for Circle,
which then would mean that the companies that are issuing their own white-labeled stablecoin
aren't actually going to be earning the yield because Circle's going to be earning it,
or at least not the 100% of it, which is just kind of odd to me.
I don't think that's the point of people wanting to launch their stable coins.
Um, right now it's because they want that yield.
So I don't know, I guess I don't know how this mechanism is going to be, you know, how this mechanism is going to unfold or this product is going to unfold for them. But if it is just Reps, Circle, or Reps, USDC, I don't think that's going to be very successful
considering some of the other options out there right now.
Yeah, I agree. And then also, I go back to
if Coinbase is going to lean into this so much
and Rep stables to brand them for others,
why don't they launch their own stablecoin?
Why are they still giving...
The circle and Coinbase relationship
has never made sense to me on both parties.
But because I feel like they're at a point like,
why does either one need the other?
And I don't know who's winning in that relationship,
and maybe that's the answer for Coinbase.
It's like they're printing off USDC,
and it would cost them more to launch their own,
but if they're going to...
Can you do more in the stablecoin space
and help others launch stablecoins,
wrapping you...
I don't know.
I've never really understood that relationship.
It just always seemed like a very big
The split just seemed odd to me
Yeah
I completely agree
And Coinbase is for sure winning on that relationship
In my opinion
They're the distribution ledger
For Circle
That's the relationship I guess they're the distribution ledger for for circle but you know for the you know that's like the
relationship i guess but circle is just basically giving away a huge percentage of their revenue to
circle simply because circle or because coinbase is such a big a big player in the space but at
the end of the day i don't think they need i don't think circle needs coinbase that much
I don't think Circle needs Coinbase that much anymore, considering how mainstream it is.
It's either one or two on pretty much every other chain that's in existence.
I mean, it certainly is.
So I just don't really understand the relationship there. I point or like circle wouldn't, you know, offer this, this, um, this service themselves.
If that's really is the, you know, what this product ends up being is just wrapped circle
or wrapped, you know, um, USDC.
Um, so yeah, I don't know.
It's, uh, I don't know. It's a really, it's kind of confusing to me, to be honest with you.
Yeah, same. Gary, go ahead and get in your thoughts on Stablecoin or something else bring you up this morning.
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, my opinion is Stablecoin as a service, most companies are going to end up with their own Stablecoins.
It's going to replace what we see as gift cards today going forward. I think it'll take a couple of years.
Stripe's doing this. So Stripe partnered with Phantom. Are you aware of that?
I don't know. Okay. So Phantom has cash. So if you open up your Phantom app now,
you have a full banking portal in your Phantom app, in your wallet that lets you get a debit
card and lets you swap to cash and lets you spend it in a bank account and all this stuff.
That's powered by Stripe. And Phantom Cash is backed by over $100 million right now. They're one of the fastest
growing stablecoins. So stablecoin as a service will be the future. Companies don't really want
a token until we can tokenize equity legally. But US-based companies or other jurisdiction-based
companies don't want a token that's priced because it creates a sentiment issue.
But a stablecoin creates a functional issue that we all need.
We need to process and we need to spend our capital.
And it's stable.
So I see stablecoin as a service being a benefit for both Coinbase or Stripe and the merchant because they get to control the yield.
They get to put that cash or stablecoin in someone's wallet.
They get to brand around it. They get to build around it. They get to put that hash or stable coin in someone's wallet. They get to brand around it.
They get to build around it. They get to program around it. And it is interoperable. So I think
that a lot of businesses like the Starbucks of the world and stuff will end up with a Starbucks coin.
It's not going to be a coin that has volatility. It's going to be a coin that is stable based on
a government currency so they can process commerce around it. I think the U.S. government's pushing for that too. So we get a U.S. dollar as a global reserve stable on chain,
just the same as we have a U.S. dollar as a global reserve off chain.
Yeah, good take. Von Fronten, I'm going to go to you next because is this,
are we now seeing, gary just describe the evolution
of brand coins hey gm um yeah actually gary took about 70 of what i was gonna say so um
uh i think it's a not brand coins in the way that we see it today right so brand coins in the way
we see it today and rect is i'll coins in the way we see it today.
And rect is, I'll just use rect is the only one that I'll put in that category for the definition
of how we'll talk about it for the next however many minutes, right?
Where it's like a priced coin that can fluctuate
and be used as rewards and all that kind of stuff, right?
And I think when, you know, I'm old enough to remember
when there was a permanent co-host
of Coffee with Captain and he was always bearish on brand coins because of the fluctuation.
Now, he talked about it from a consumer standpoint, right?
We all lost our damn minds when we would buy $70 worth of wrecked drink and the token that
we got as our reward pumped to $500, right? Our little degen minds freaked out
about it. But dear God, had it gone the other way and we got $5 back, or maybe it was worth 30,
and then by the time the Jupiter Unlocked came out, it was worth five, we would have lost our
minds the other direction. Stablecoins fixed this from a consumer standpoint, because now I know what it's going to be, right? I know how much my Starbucks stars are worth. I
know how much my Delta airline miles are worth. I know how much my Marriott Bonvoy points are worth.
It's predictable. I can build an economy around it. And so I think even more so than gift cards,
and I won't take credit for this. I put this thread in the war room. If I get to a point,
I'm driving right now, but if I get to a point where I can post it up on the space, I'll do that
too. But I look at this as like, to Gary's point, the evolution of loyalty and rewards programs in
the real world where they are no longer a liability on the balance sheet where you're just saying,
oh dear God, I'm going to have to cash these in at some point in time. If I'm a CFO, and this is what the thread says,
I kind of hope somebody is going to forget to redeem their miles, their points, their stars,
or whatever. And then I can write off the liability. Here, it sits as an asset on the
balance sheet. However, the yield mechanics work, it may be a yield generating asset on the balance sheet. However, the yield mechanics work, it may be a yield generating
asset on the balance sheet. And then everything that Gary said, I can program around it. I can
build commerce around it. I can do all the other things that I can do with an asset that I can't
do with a liability. And being on chain facilitates a lot of that. So that's, you know, of all the
things that I didn't watch the hour long video,-long video, I was trying to keep up on articles and posts and things like that.
But I think that, in my opinion, is probably the thing that I'm personally most excited about in the terms of the next evolution of bringing entities, and I'd say this term, companies and then their consumers, on-chain.
Yeah, I would agree.
I love the conversation.
I love all the hands this morning.
We're going to go...
We'll let Gary respond.
We'll go oxy than Joey.
The biggest thing to me in that entire presentation
that set off my spidey senses
was when I started talking about Coinbase business and payments, faster, cheaper, more global.
I didn't realize, and I don't have the data or the specifics, but this is live today.
They have vendors that are taking payment.
I mean, this was always the vision, right?
Like, it's a better way to process payments.
Instead of paying a 3% discard fee, as I understood them, as I heard them say,
they're not paying any fees to accept payments in USDC. And by the way, not only are they not paying fees like the credit card discount fee, which if you're not familiar, most retailers pay,
you might, I mean, if you're a large volume, you might get as low as like one and a half percent.
Most small businesses are paying 3% or more when you add in their statement fees and all that. It's a big expense. I mean,
if you do a hundred grand a month in credit card posse, that's three grand a month. You're paying
Visa, MasterCard, et cetera. For a business that does a hundred grand a month doing, let's say they operate off 20% margins, to give them a $3,000 a month raise, that's huge.
Huge.
I'm going to see if I can find some old P&Ls and show you what we used to pay annually in credit card discount rates.
It'll make you sick.
Again, I know it's – no one cares, but probably over – if I add my Verizon business and my phone repair business, I'm pretty sure I probably paid over seven figures worth of fees.
Now, again, this was pre-blockchain, so it wasn't ever even a real solution, but it is a really big deal.
I hadn't thought until this conversation now that the,
why would someone want to care about having their own white private labeled
stable coin? It's, it's making sense. So Gary,
going back in here, then we'll go Oxy, Joey, funky.
And then we've got to be kind of quick.
We can kind of do lightning around here. I know good conversation.
We do have some guests joining us at nine, but then I think there could be some overlap as well.
I'd love for all of you to hang out
and we'll continue whatever we don't get through
in the Coinbase talk.
Cause there's a few other announcements
we haven't even hit on yet from equity perps,
prediction markets, 24 seven stock trading,
then becoming a bank in their own decks.
Like a lot, a lot came out of that,
but go ahead, Gary, Oxy, Joey, Funky, Gary, go ahead.
Yeah, Kevin, what you were just saying, like I had a small business. We did about $2.5 million in
revenue and it costs us about six figures in credit card processing fees. So you save that.
And then if my clients swap to that particular branded stable, especially if I'm much larger,
like a Starbucks or something, now I'm earning yield and now I can give them a discount for using my stable coin because it's not an expense for me. It's an
earnings point for me. So if I'm earning, let's just say I'm earning 3% yield and everybody's
holding my stable coin. They're not using it yet. I'm earning 3%. I can give them a one or two points
off whenever they come in and use that coin for commerce. Not only do I not have to pay the credit
card fees, but I can pass the savings along to the customer as well. Yeah, it's a really big deal.
You're saving. You're also then immediately earning yield on the stables you brought in.
I know this is probably like a lot of people are like, I can't believe these guys are getting so
excited about stable coins and payments. This is real product market fit.
This is real, a very real example of blockchain technology
and crypto doing something significantly better
than its predecessors.
It's just better on chain.
It is.
You can't convince me otherwise.
Go ahead, Oxy, and then we'll go
Joey, and then Funky. Yeah. And maybe let me just clarify. I'm very bullish on stable coins,
and then especially stable coins for companies. I think branded stable coins is a great idea.
I audit these. The more stable coins that are out there, the more work I get and the more revenue I can generate myself.
So this is a great, you know, this is great for me.
What I'm trying to, maybe what I wasn't clear about was I don't understand why someone would
go through a Coinbase rather than a Stripe or Athena or a, another, you know, any other
stable coin white label provider, considering how much that they have to pay in fees to Circle.
So it's like going from Coinbase and then going to Circle and then going to the end provider
doesn't really make sense to me. I think there's more efficient ways for companies to generate
these stablecoins without losing that much in the amount in fees that they're likely going to be losing going through this service.
So that's just what I'm trying to say.
I think they can probably earn more yield with less fees through other providers.
That's all I'm trying to suggest.
I think you're probably right.
I also think there is something to be said for just ease of use.
And if I have everything else here, would I really need to do that?
I just, this is going to be really interesting
and it is, yeah, I do.
I just, I think this is a really big deal.
Joey, I don't see your hand,
but if you want to get in here,
go ahead with a quick one
and then we'll go to Funky.
That's odd.
I guess X is wigging out again.
So to answer, to kind of answer Oxy'sging out again. Uh, so to, to answer,
to kind of answer oxy's question is part of the, so I have a friend who's been at
Coinbase for over five years as a, um, a software engineer,
and he actually worked on a bunch of these products for them,
more specifically the crypto backed loans aspect of, uh,
their announcement and what they're doing. Um, but what,
one of the things they also announced was Coinbase Business.
So the reason why you go with Coinbase for your stablecoin is because of the announcement
of Coinbase Business.
So Coinbase Business is an all-in-one financial platform specifically for small businesses
that want to integrate and utilize crypto.
So when you combine the fact that yes, you can just use regular USDC, but then you combine
the fact that you're utilizing your own branded, um, stable coin. Now you're, you're able to build out this whole, your, your whole
business with Coinbase versus just going to somebody who's a stable coin
provider, um, that doesn't have all the other benefits that Coinbase
business is going to offer.
Like Coinbase business has like, I real quickly, it says like, you know,
automated financial workflows and, you know, uh, global payments through invoicing and all kinds of other stuff.
So you have to look at the announcement as a whole to also like, you know, they have
Coinbase advisor and right.
Like there was so many parts to this announcement that kind of work off of each other as to
why somebody would want to go to Coinbase for a branded
stable coin. The last thing I'll say is the reason why you would do this, because I think in the
beginning, somebody said like, I don't know why you would need a branded stable coin. I mean,
the answer is simple is if you're launching a business, like you use Starbucks as the example,
why would you want people to use, oh, go use USDC instead of using S-Bucks, right? You'd want to keep everything branded so it's the same.
But yeah, go read the full announcement and get a better understanding of how all of the
stuff ties together.
And you'll see why somebody would choose Coinbase over just a stablecoin provider.
Yeah, I get it.
Funky, we'll go to you next.
And if anyone else has hands up, give me a wave so I can see it because X is being finicky.
And again, we could do lightning round just because we've got our, I don't want to keep
our special guests waiting too long.
My first thought when I'm seeing all this, I'm like, I'm nodding.
I'm like, and then I started thinking, this sounds too good to be true.
There's got to be some hidden fees somewhere.
There's got to be some spread.
Coinbase is a for-profit publicly traded company.
They've got to be making money on all this.
And I don't see them just going straight to zero, right?
They may not charge fees on processing, but they're going to make their money somewhere. And that's why I can't believe I'm like, this is what I'm excited to nerd out
about. But I am excited by, forget crypto as a retailer. Like I said yesterday, if I had to
describe myself with one word,
it's probably entrepreneur. If you made me choose another word, it'd be storyteller.
And if I had to pick a third word, it'd be, I'm a small box retailer. I'm a specialized in franchising. Like that part of my brain is getting giddy about this. Not hyperbole.
I have a lot of my friends,
like you want to say,
what's going to be the next wave to onboard people?
I've said for a while,
I think it's like,
you talk about the rec success stories
and bringing in more builders on change
because they can see what they can do here
with the network effects
and what blockchain technology unlocks.
Every one of my friends that's in franchise,
every one of my friends that's a retailer,
I know or have a good idea of what they're paying in fees to process payments like this is it really is
a better model and it's a hell of a mousetrap uh for all the reasons just mentioned funky go ahead
gm sir gm gang so i'm just going to be as brief as possible i'm going to be the policy wonk in
the room i agree with everything that everybody said. I'm very bullish on stable coins, better distribution payment rails, blah, blah, blah.
However, just came out back from the Blockchain Association Policy Summit.
And if you guys aren't aware, the ABA, which is the American Bankers Association,
biggest trade association for all the banks, are fighting tooth and nail
to change the Clarity Act that was passed from the House that's being looked over in the Senate.
It's basically what they want to do is make sure that no yield gets passed on to the end user.
So all these dreams where people are using Stablecoin as a service
or like what AXE was talking about before,
they might not necessarily get that asset that's appreciating on their balance sheet. So the
number one thing, because I'm trying to be brief, that you can do during the holidays, my fellow
Americans who are listening, write to your senator and tell them to use the base text from the
Clarity Act that was already passed in the House. Let that be the starting point. Don't have them
try and change things because that's what they're trying to do in the Ag Committee and the Financial Banking Committee.
So just write to your senator,
you're slowed down during the holidays,
and say, use the base text of the Clarity Act
that was passed by partisan support,
78 Democrats voted for that thing.
We got to do this because otherwise
a lot of these stablecoin dreams will be killed
and it's the banks and the issuers just hogging the yield.
I'm apolitical. I'm not, you know, you probably won't find me voting in a presidential election.
I just don't care enough. This is something I'll throw some support behind. For those that aren't
as well-versed in the political realm as yourself, you say contact your senator. Is it,
what's the, what's the specific call to action for everyone listening? Like this is important i do want to take some action is it just google your your senator
send them an email is there any sort of form letter is yep just send them an email basically
and tell them use the clarity act that's passed in the house as the base text because what the
senate's trying to do is just create their own version and the aba is getting involved and they're
trying to make it very bank focused which you know be fair, genius is when you look at the stablecoin issuers,
this is why you see a rush to banking charters, because you effectively have to be a bank to be
a stablecoin issuer. So just write to your senator and effectively say, use the base text
from the Clarity Act that was passed out of the house.
Yeah, down with the big banks. This is not surprised. I understand why they want to do this. But this is also, I mean, you said it. This is taking funds, taking yield directly from the end user because the big banks are greedy and they don't want to give that up.
how this could play out and what Coinbase has just announced in this paradigm shift,
if they didn't think it was a real threat to them, they probably wouldn't be taking this action.
This is a major, major thing that will reverberate throughout society if it goes forward.
Because I can speak to the US, the backbone of backbone of the u.s and main street it is your
small medium businesses it like this is a big big deal and um yeah that's so in addition to
clicking my coinbase base ref link up top uh that's your other homework today is uh go email
your senator i i i maybe have done this once or twice before on some things that i was
passionate about.
I've been in one congressional hearing for the right to repair.
And it's like a bunch of us cell phone tech nerds and farmers that were pissed off at John Deere.
Another story.
I'm not going to digress because we have a special guest.
Joey, get in here for a quick one.
And then we are going to bring out our special guest.
If you control the money, you control the person.
It's one of the oldest sayings.
And that's why they're fighting the banks and,
and whatever are fighting against this.
It's, it's really that simple.
People just got to wake up and realize that.
Yeah.
You control the money.
You're in control and cash is king.
That's the other one that, uh, still holds true to this day.
I don't see as crazy it's not though
dude i went to sea world and disney this weekend everything is cashless like i literally gave
myself a budget in cash and not as nobody would take cash but crazy for me i mean dollars liquidity
well yeah yeah sorry but it's crazy how nobody would take cash. USDC is new, is the new King, you know, stable coins are the new, uh, the new King is, is, uh,
we, it doesn't, doesn't hit quite as well. It doesn't have the same alliteration as cash is
King, but, um, yeah, we will, uh, we'll work on wordsmithing that one. That's where I need Steve
to help me, uh, better properly, uh, uh, come up with something there. I ran out of my, I exhausted
all my pun quota doing the Steve Captain in the
treacherous storms in the open seas earlier in the call. So we're going to move on. I'm really,
truly excited. Stick around. There's some more things to hit on this Coinbase conversation.
I kind of flew through some of the other bullet points, but definitely a few other items we will talk through that I do also make not as big as payments and processing, but also some concern about the hyper gambling world that we are.
I think that's the trains left the station and there's no going back.
And I do have some concern, especially for we need more financial education in our elementary schools, our
universities. We always should have had more, but especially now as so many of these tools,
so many of these financial instruments are now available to the masses, most people aren't
educated even remotely enough to start playing in these worlds and people are going to get wrecked.
So I do think education is going to be increasingly important. Financial education,
it's, I mean, not going to go off on an educational rant, but it's been a miss. And
I hope we see more of it in helping our kids in the younger generation get educated on this stuff.
That said, I'm going to fight out again like a concert professional.
You know what kids don't need to necessarily
be over-educated on?
It just makes sense is really cute stuffed animals
and IP, one of my favorite ones.
Actually, I kid you not, I'm moving out of the Airbnb today.
I promise you guys, anyone, you can go look at all the videos.
I've had my stuffed Klaino right here
for like the last, since I got it.
I just packed it up though, because it's going to be moved with me for sure.
So that said, please join.
If you haven't yet, give us a like and repost on the space.
Let's get this thing warmed up.
We've got Andrew and Blake joining us from the Klano's team.
Really excited to hear what's new there.
Talk about moving and shaking and aligning with your users.
I've been on a little, I don't know,
week-long rant about most NFT PFP brands
getting away from what made the NFT space great
as an active participant,
and most aren't even attempting to be aligned with their users.
They've flipped their ambassadors,
their raving fans,
their what used to feel like stakeholders into mere customers that pay a premium for most of their products and goods.
The one I always disclaimer that's not in that group is Klaino's because you guys are just moving differently than most in the space.
So Andrew, Blake, GM, always a pleasure.
always a pleasure uh welcome to coffee anything before we jump into all things clay knows any
Welcome to coffee.
Anything before we jump into all things Klaino's?
anything on this morning's conversation whether it's the coinbase announcement stable coins and
anything you wanted to get out well good morning thanks for having us yeah we were just shooting
the breeze while you guys were talking about that i think no it's um the coinbase announcement is
really really i think it's great honestly in terms of the uh opening up all these different avenues
towards um sort of like more retail facing-facing and friendlier environments for people.
Even when we talk about Klano and what we want to do in terms of aligning interests,
and in our case, tokenizing our equity stack and distributing that to the fans that have been so valuable to us.
And then even as we build out our studio in Hibu, all of these things are super important.
So we looked at that yesterday.
We're like, oh man, this is great
because the hurdles and the things where we add value
aren't going to be necessarily regulatory change
and regime change and DeFi tech
and finding great partners who are at the forefront of that
to lever that into what we're trying to do
is super, super powerful.
So I think it's a good step forward and I think it helps us in that regard.
And like you're saying, every NFT collection has kind of waned
or tried old tricks, and they don't work anymore.
I mean, I think the future is going this direction,
even for NFTs and for fans and for communities at large.
And then the point on, I mean, my background is all banking and finance,
so the point on how do they get money? And yeah, it's yield guys.
That's how a bank runs, right?
Banks, they don't make money off of fees.
It's net interest margin.
And that's like just, they take a yield on your money.
So the more that they keep, the more they'll ingrain themselves in that way for whatever
that's worth.
So to that, if I could ask, as it relates to payments, let's say small business, they're
taking payments, they get that payment in a stable coin. There's no fees on that. And then the business is starting immediately
earning yield on that stable coin they brought in. Are you saying it's still like the business
model still supports Coinbase, not taking fees on the payments, still paying yield to the business,
but yet there's enough margin in the yield that they're going to earn on top of that to make it
work? Right. So if you're doing payments, then you're probably predominantly
talking about credit cards and things like that. A credit card, there's a big fee on that. I'll
say 2%, 3%, depending on the retailer. Amex is more expensive, I think. Those fees will obviously
collapse because those companies are facilitating. Amex, MasterCard, those guys aren't holding capital, they're just conduiting and moving data around. So those fees will obviously
come down to a very, very low level, which is great. It's great for everybody. Not great for
MasterCard and Amex, but I'm sure they're probably thinking about using these kinds of rails so that
they can remain competitive. And we see partnerships like that all the time. So payment is one thing,
right?
Ooh.
Let me try this.
He gone.
We lost him.
Yeah, one sec. Check, check.
One, two, one, two.
Check, check. You all can hear me right yeah we can hear you one sec
um that my looks like it's working on my side we're good i have no idea what happened but we lost you
for a second but we are um i maybe the unplugged plugging it back in worked um sorry about that
uh no no problem as long as uh i'm not going to blame but basically the bank holds a shit ton
of money they invest it and then they um that's where their money comes from net interest so like
the payments rails are a completely different prospect,
and the little micro fees you see at ATMs and things like that
are not the profit center for a bank.
It's really the net interest margin on your deposits.
Therefore, Coinbase, the more you can hold
as a consequence of issuing stable coins
or supporting tokenized equities and things like that,
the more money you have,
you're just passing the risk from one person to another.
But if you're holding deposits,
you can invest and make money.
That's how sort of even like a circle
or tether makes money, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I appreciate you commenting on that,
sharing from a background of expertise.
And again, this is exciting.
We really talk about moving the space forward.
And it seems like we really have made some tremendous leaps in 2025 in terms of the infrastructure and the rails to push all this stuff forward.
Speaking of, what's Kl so what's, uh, what's Clayna's pushing forward. What's, I think we might have a, uh,
partnership, a collaboration, uh, maybe a, maybe a drop here coming soon.
Yeah. I think global Clayna's is, uh,
continuing to push on a number of fronts and, um,
but I think we've got something coming up for our other brand.
Nobody sausage this week. I'll let Blake run on that one though.
Cause he's the man. Yeah. On the Clayna side, weo side, we just rolled out our mobile game that we're making with
Gameloft into the Philippines.
It's more of a test market, so it's a soft launch
that we're doing there. That started yesterday, but it's super exciting because it's just the start of
everything to come and how Klaino jumps into
mainstream gaming on the mobile front.
After that, we'll do more of another phase two soft launch in Australia
in a couple months, we're thinking.
And that's really about testing the stickiness and retention
and the gameplay and the balancing and the marketing.
So we're taking a really slow approach to rolling out this mobile game, but that's probably the biggest and most present news on the Klaino side right now.
Can I ask, I'm curious, how do you choose Philippines as Test Market One and then Australia?
Is it your user base? Is it a mobile gaming base?
It's actually just for gaming on the traditional gaming front. So Philippines
has an amazing, I guess, just community of gamers as a country. They're just very, very involved.
And it's cheap to test there. You get a lot of good feedback. You get a lot of good users or a
lot of users to do that. And then Australia is, it's a tier one country,
but ad spends and things like that
is much cheaper to do than in the US.
So when you do US and you're looking
at user acquisition costs,
it's very high in the US,
but a lot less in Australia and even the EU.
And so it's a great opportunity for you
when you're building out products like these
to see again, what's working, what's not working in terms of marketing and balancing and everything like that.
So it's why we took a phased approach before doing our global launch to just ensure the success of this game on a global scale.
Very cool. Very cool. Well, congrats on the launch.
And any I know not to put you on the spot, but any range or guesstimate when we might, when it might make it to the US?
Global launch is probably going to be about three months after we do Australia.
So we want to move pretty quickly.
You don't want to wait too long into that because we're testing, you know, everything from even like payment systems and things like that.
And we'll be introducing other things.
But once that happens, we go right into global launch.
It's going to be following it right off the bat.
So it could be two months, could be three months after Australia.
It really depends on if we have the data that we need.
And if we get great data and it pops up first month,
then we'll just turn the dial on and, and launch global right away.
so yeah,
it'll,
it'll be quick.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Looking forward to it.
Yeah.
yeah.
So I,
I know you mentioned another brand and I,
last time we had you guys on here,
I think it was the Hebrew announcement.
I think it was actually day of launch.
for those that might've missed that show or haven't caught wind of it yet,
do you want to do a quick, like high levellevel, what is Hebu and why should everyone care?
Yeah, sure.
So it's actually kind of relevant to this Coinbase thing too.
So basically, Hebu is basically a platform for unearthing the greatest IP that is not making it to the market right now. So right now, you guys see Netflix is buying Warner Brothers,
and there's all this sort of rhetoric around,
oh, but are they going to do this?
Are they going to do that?
And the byproduct of all these big consolidations
is that you don't get original IP.
You don't get new brands or franchises.
And you can sort of feel it and see it.
Even as a consumer, when was the last time a big franchise emerged
like a Star Wars or Lord of the Rings or these big sort of feel it and see it. Like you don't, even as a consumer, like when was the last time a big franchise emerged?
Like Alice,
Star Wars or Lord of the Rings or these big sort of like mega friend Pokemon,
these great,
great franchises that we all love.
And,
but in the meantime, we see deteriorated by like overly,
overly like sort of pushing that content far too much,
far too often.
And with like far less laxity or far more laxity.
So Hebrew basically unearths properties we
map we bring creators and fans together it's a fan first and a creator first platform um and it's
basically you know crowdfunding with fans and creators but also rewarding fans for the things
that they bring to those brands recognizing that without a a fan, you don't have the marketing
engine or the inertia one would need to go and survive inside of the content slop world that
exists today. And aside from that, even from a capital and DeFi perspective, it's not just
crowdfunding, it's capital that is managed and risk allocated according to the market and the
actual performance of the underlying properties.
So you're not just passing the risk
that Netflix doesn't want to take to a bunch of fans.
You're actually managing that in such a way
based on more fan engagement equals more dollars
for the project and so on and so forth.
And that flywheel pushes resources and money
towards the franchises that are going to be the most successful.
And then for the stuff that people are going to be the most successful.
And then for the stuff that people are always so keen on,
what does that mean for tokens and stuff like that?
I mean, all of these will have underlying sort of tokenized equity,
which we're working on.
Why it's so great to hear what Coinbase is doing and regulatory moving that direction.
And we continue to work on these things ourselves,
but always great to find amazing partners who are ahead of the curve
and talk to those folks and work with those folks.
And so all of these will be tokenized equity and that will be on the platform.
And then Hebrew itself will have its own token, which I think you had the article open that I posted earlier this week or last week, rather, which is, you know, the Hebrew token is this preferred access token.
So imagine how the IPO market works today.
You know, you, you know, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley does a big IPO.
Who gets the first price before it goes up 15, 20% on launch?
It's their clients that, you know, the big other people,
they owe favors to hedge funds and wealthy folks.
This actually says, well,
we're going to be IPO and all these great entertainment properties, but the people who should be getting access are the ones who
are the most engaged and the ones who've added the most fan value and the ones who we know should be
there. And so the Hebrew token is amongst many other things that we can attach to that
principally will be that preferred access pass into the Hebrew ecosystem and what will eventually be this
fundraising fan platform
that unearths all these
great original properties that the market isn't seeing anymore.
Yeah, I'm
curious, you mentioned Netflix there.
Any thoughts? I mean, this
week I saw the
PFT, is that
right? The Barstool. Actually,
I think it was a couple barstool shows
yeah that went uh it went to netflix and i didn't think much of it i was like that makes sense
and then i saw like almost like some vitriol from their fans their audience like really upset that
they were calling them sellouts and can't believe you do this and that was i wasn't expecting that
any i'm just curious like your high little thoughts on that and and then how yeah well i mean i think honestly they're just
like you know if you're if you're netflix you're like well look i've got i've captured this like
you know premium streaming audience and obviously i'm trying to capture more of it through the
purchase of warner brothers who's got a ton of great um brands underneath it you know you also
you want to just capture as much market as you can.
Obviously, we're basically on a podcast.
Podcasts are huge.
I mean, and people love podcasts.
I think I'm not sure what the actual stats are on how many people watch podcast video
versus like listening.
I know I-
But most of it's, or not most of it, a lot of it is on YouTube.
I mean, YouTube is the largest streaming platform.
Even for podcasts?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, there you go. So I think that's it. And it's like,
Netflix wants to capture that market if they can. And you do have talk shows on Netflix,
like the one with David Letterman, I think. So that's, you know, which is, you know,
that's a conversation and it's not too different from a podcast, right? So
they're just trying to capture market share across everything. So if someone's on video,
they'll try and eat it up. And I think that's a. And I think that's them testing it out with Barstool.
They also announced yesterday this, I think, a video game thing for FIFA.
That was you.
Oh, yeah, yeah, FIFA.
I missed this one.
It was, I mean, my feed is always Netflix.
There is.
All kinds of stuff.
But, yeah, I mean, they're trying to capture these different arenas, right?
And they even did Netflix gaming, right?
Yeah, they did Netflix gaming.
Now YouTube has just announced playables, which is YouTube gaming.
And being able to run and play games direct from your browser.
So again, everybody's trying to capture the same, expand their market presence in whatever they can.
presence in whatever they can and they're all competing against each other and the reality is
And they're all competing against each other.
youtube is so far ahead of everyone that uh they need podcasts or whatever they get or whatever
content they can pull into their i mean safe to say it's kind of like their these shows their
podcasts their live streams is would it be fair to say it's almost like obviously that's their
core business but also top of funnel for gaming and these other divisions, right?
Are we talking about YouTube here?
I guess both YouTube and Netflix.
And I would be remiss if I didn't, if we're talking about YouTube gaming and Netflix gaming.
I see our guy William out there with Amazon and in here every day, a big fan of him and supports us.
in here every day, a big fan of him and supports us.
Just these e-commerce giants, these streaming giants
leaning into gaming,
is your thoughts like they're doing that just because others are doing it
and they need to capture a piece of that?
Or is that potentially a future?
For YouTube specifically, I think they're just trying to keep people on their platform.
Because we all know that when kids are not playing games on their iPad, they go right to the channel to watch people play to watch people play games.
So if they can contain that audience from play to watch on the same thing, then they've they out succeeded everybody.
So I think it's a very good move for us.
And honestly, we're talking about
putting our game that we're developing with game loft um as a playable it would only make sense i
mean it's a relatively new development for us but um a hundred percent if we can get the game you
know which will be on the app store in the google play store to also show up on this youtube
playables site um it's a no-brainer us. So we're going to be entertaining those ideas as well.
Makes sense. Makes sense. Yeah. That said, without further ado, what is coming soon?
You talked to Hebrew? Yeah. Yeah. So with the Hebrew announcement, we also announced the
partnership with Nobody Sausage. And for those of you who don't know, Nobody Sausage is, they
started in 2020, been about five years old on Instagram and TikTok.
It is the largest character brand on social media, 35 million followers, billions of views over the last five years.
It's just a massive, massive, massive IP.
And, you know, we are, you know, we were brought in, we were introduced with the creator, Kyle.
He's a single solo artist, extremely talented.
And the success that he's built on his own is just, you just can't even compare it.
Nobody's done it that way as a one-man band type of thing.
So we're, you know, we partnered with him on a collab originally.
And then, you know, we just got to talking and said, you know, how can we help, you know, make this brand more culturally relevant in other areas?
He was interested in Web3.
So a fun story about that.
Met with Nick, our founder.
And so we kind of introduced him to some people to help his Web3 presence.
But at the end of the day, we're really just
here to support him on all fronts. That is mainstream media and branding and everything
else that I just discussed. So one of our first things that we're doing is we're rolling out
a plush blind box today. It is going live today. And we're doing this in
a very interesting way. We're partnering with 223 on the production side of things. And, you know,
they're helping us not only develop this, you know, high quality plush blind box keychain
that we're rolling out, but they're building our, you know, our Shopify site. And then we're also
partnering with Collector Crypt on the same way.
So we're building out two experiences that tie together, but it really is a web two and web three push. So we will be promoting it onto the social channels, running ads to that audience
and creating this experience that feels very friendly to them, while also tying in, you know, digital experiences via NFC chip technology.
And I don't want to go into too much of the spoilers around, like,
what each box will, you know, contain,
because we do have some other announcements this weekend.
But it is, you know, it is the first time that he's done a physical line,
the first time that he's done a physical line
really kind of marketed to his audience that
also has some digital technology built in as well.
Really, really fun, exciting stuff for us.
Interesting. Very cool. I'm sure I'm missing something, but that's it on the service level.
I guess, rewinding just a little bit, do you guys have any
like, I know there's a
lot there's no like one single answer there's probably no server bullet it was probably just
consistently grinding and growing but if you had to guess or describe how nobody sausage had so
much success growing their socials growing this ip what would you attribute it to? I think, honestly, the speed at which he can execute in the meme culture
has been very, very rewarding for him.
And an example of that would be when, I think it was Serena Williams
at the Super Bowl one day did a sea walk, and that became like,
she did the crypt walk during the halftime show,
and that became like, she did the crypt walk during the halftime show. And that
became this like internet phenomenon. He saw that that moment made a video that night, spent seven
hours just grinding on it and was the first one to have a nobody sausage type meme video go out
the next morning. And of course it exploded. So he's very, very smart about what is trending on social and how he can inject his brand into these moments.
And that the other the other thing, too, is he's just extremely creative and talented in knowing what hits and what's funny.
So, you know, he gets a lot of his influence from SpongeBob SquarePants.
And and he's really trying to bring joy to people's life and create these moments that are really shareable.
And it's just been very rewarding for him.
It's very impressive.
We congratulate him every time we talk.
It is really impressive.
And I know it's not easy.
The thing that I heard, I saw one of the comments like,
oh, another blind box.
This to me seems, looks very different than every other blind box we've seen.
No offense to Burbs or Nuco or Vlog.
All different in their own right.
To me, my perspective, my opinion is all those.
Everyone we've seen so far has been crypto-centric to a crypto-native audience.
While here, we're talking about this on crypto Twitter,
they're going to be posts on X.
This seems like it's flipping the script.
This is the Instagram, as you mentioned, 7.5 million followers,
Blindbox, limited edition.
And while we know there's going to be some sort of tech tie in there, there's going to be something beyond just the collectible. I don't see any mentions of crypto. I don't see any mentions of even even. Yeah, just limited edition, lush blind box.
actually received the box yourself. And I think that's going to be very important for his audience
is that you don't need to know anything. It's why we built out a separate site that will be
listing on that. But you're right. I mean, there has been a trend and we're aware of that. But,
you know, Nick, Cap and I, we spent a lot of time this year. We, you know, we went to Korea,
we went to Japan. We've been, we've been
interested in doing a major research on the Klaino side of things in collectibles and physical
collectibles. You know, it's been a high priority for us this year. And so when we go to places like,
you know, to do the research, we're looking at it with also the back of our mind, keeping nobody's
sausage in mind of like, what would hit for that audience? What would be very important? So we know his demographics and
we really did. We have been working on this for a while to make sure that it does land with who we
think it is. So yes, it's a different push. It is going to be a much wider push to make sure that
we do capture that, the Web2 community that he has and make sure that the experience is
seamless for him and to be important I think also we want to we know that web
three and the tools here like really form community in a great place and
even though nobody sausage has 35 million followers the question unlike
these other brands even Klaino for that matter is not how do you go from where
we are today into web to or into this wider audience for us it's how do you take that wider sort of fragmented audience and bring them together
with the web 3 stuff we've got with the meme token that is nobody's sausage and so
in this regard yeah we got a way wider net to work with and we've been staying for nobody's
sausage since we onboarded them into hibu it's literally the opposite we want to put these
physical things out these kinds of collectibles that people are familiar with in the real world.
And then we've got digital integrations inside of there.
There's NFC chips inside of these plushies and it's all seamless and
abstracted away, but brings you right back into these, you know,
web three arenas and web three places so that we can take those,
those 33 million followers and bring them back this direction.
So it's a wider net and funnel. That's our top funnel to bring them back this direction so it's a wider net and funnel that's
our top funnel to bring them back here versus the other way around and i think that's really
important because especially for you know the crypto twitter audience like it's um we know all
the benefits just a matter of bringing them in in a very sort of seamless and friendly way which
we're pretty pretty good i think i love it yeah and I'm not just glazing because you're on the show.
Really appreciate what you're doing.
Like this is, no one's coming to buy our NFTs.
It's just not happening.
There's no net new buyers right now.
No one's onboarding to come buy our expensive digital JPGs.
They're just not.
People are collecting things.
People are, they want to find new IP.
Like this, and I'm bummed because I don't know what I was thinking.
Not only did I take down my stuff, Klano, I boxed it up,
put it right back in the original bag to make sure it stays in good condition.
I wish I hadn't put it in the car right now because even that experience,
that unboxing experience, the quality, it's really well done.
There is something more there, but it's not in your face.
It doesn't scream this is some nerdy NFT, some blockchain technology that I don't mean, you know, I got to learn some new language to figure out.
It's just really well done from a end user unboxing, the end user experience, the quality is there and i i absolutely can see how this thing plays out where there's like you said
30 plus million nobody sausage fans a fraction of a portion of them are going to buy this blind box
and inevitably some of those are going to get their first digital collectible they're going to
get their first first on-chain experience like this is how we bring i think the rest of the
world into this space.
That's not from the business standpoint with things like stable coins for the end consumer in this IP. Like, again, thank you for pushing the space forward, doing new things and not just
something that worked in 21 or 22. So, uh, I genuinely mean that I'm not blowing smoke or
just glazing you guys. Cause you're here. It's like this. We need more of this.
And it's not just more alignment with our holders and driving value back to your NFT holders,
but doing things differently to get outside of our bubble.
But yet also keeping the technology intact.
Yes.
Right?
Yeah.
Don't just sell.
Yeah.
It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems so obvious. It seems like. It seems like. sell a question. Yeah. It's the same thing that we're doing with the mobile game.
Honestly, it's like, it's why we partnered with a web to mobile game company and to release
it on the Apple store.
But the assets that you craft in that game are digital assets.
You are creating a wallet when you sign up for an account with your email address.
No one's going to know.
But yeah, it's exactly that.
And it seems so obvious to have this conversation.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills or beating my head against the wall because I see, I'm
not going to name names, I'm not going to single anyone out, but I see crypto native
NFT PFP brands launching collectibles or merch and there is zero tie-in to blockchain tech.
Like not even so much as like a gated drop.
It's just, we're just going to sell,
we're going to go backwards.
It's like, what are we doing?
Like there's fun, cool stuff.
Like the power of an NFT,
if it's composable technology, you can build upon it.
There's so much more we can do.
And I felt for the last few months,
it feels like so many of your peers, your counterparts
aren't even making an attempt or not even making an effort. So is this going to be the greatest
blind box sale of all time? I don't know, but I don't really, I mean, I hope, I hope you guys
have massive success with it. Regardless of the outcome, I really, truly appreciate the strategy
and the execution going into this. I know it. I know it takes a lot of work.
I know it is doing things a little differently, but it gets me excited. It's refreshing. It gets
me excited about the NFT PFP world again, because there are some, and you guys are at the top of a
short list right now in terms of really connecting both parts, the normie world with us blockchain nerds
and yet obfuscating all the tech and stuff
that the normies don't care about.
They don't want to know.
In fact, if this said,
oh, you get to buy this box
and you can claim a free NFT
or a free digital collectible,
that's probably going to turn off
some of those 30 plus million followers
and give them reason not to buy it.
So yeah, everything has to do.
It's not a bullet point. It's not a feature point. feature point it never was didn't work in gaming uh web3 gaming it's not
going to work in collectibles it you have to create experience that are familiar to them
and uh and that's it yep uh and if they choose to follow the path of the crypto then so be it um
but you're exactly right and you know what they don't all need to follow the path for some of
them it's just gonna right get them that get them the cool thing. Not every one of them needs to jump in the crypto blockchain rabbit hole like I did when I found Topshop. Like some might, some probably will, but they don't have to. Like we're, I think we're kind of like, I say we, like oftentimes I think people, we make it too complicated. We're over engineering things It's like, just ship cool stuff and use the technology to make the cool stuff better. I think I'll,
not to talk about a counterpart or a peer, but it was, I think, Luca where I first heard,
he's like, I want our $20 toy to have more and be better than the $20 toy sitting next to it on the
Walmart shelf. And that's what I'm seeing here. When say like this is a yes it's a blind box have we
seen some other blind boxes yes we have the approach that i'm seeing here is very different
from the other crypto natives not saying they did it wrong i just yeah this gets me excited well
to add also and i i didn't even i didn't even cover this but um you know we are creating this
digital experience but the we are planning on bringing these blind boxes to retail on shelves as well that also have that experience.
So it's not a bullet point to overlook.
And nothing is 100% set in stone quite yet.
However, that is the plan.
And that is another outlier for this drop specifically, too.
I love it.
So specifics, you mentioned Collector Crypt.
This goes live today, is that right?
Yep, yep.
What time and where,
for those that want to go buy one of these,
so we know details on like price,
where to go buy it,
what specific call to actions
for those that are excited like I am today,
what do we need to know
and how do we get our hands
on one of these blind boxes?
Yeah, for this audience, probably Collector is going to be your the place that you
want to go. Like I said, we are. We are developing a separate web to friendly Shopify, they look
very similar, don't get me wrong. But you can you can use crypto payments on the collector crypt
site. So that is going live, we are shooting before between 10 and 11 AM. Um,
so any, you know, I probably need to hop off and check my phone and see where we're at with that,
that announcement and everything that's going. Uh, but yeah, so it's, it's coming up,
it's coming up soon. And then you'll see the rest of the announcements throughout the,
throughout the weekend. Um, but the drop is going to be live, I think, until Monday. So it is a short time for the digital space. It is not something that's going to be always on.
So we'll end that on Monday. So from today through the weekend, like I said, there will be for sure
digital tie-ins to this drop. And price points is very competitive
at every single price point.
Again, like at the end of the day,
we are looking at retail plays here.
So I think we landed on $28 a single pack.
Keep in mind, these are blind box plush keychains.
So they are like a little bit taller,
you know, that hold on audio cut out again. Uh, I think it's just spaces. So video can all still hear you.
Um, but for whatever reason, we're having some X issues today. I just got to,
what it worked last time. So I'm just going to unplug and plug back in. So give me like 30,
not even 30 seconds.
All right. Check, check. We're back. Check, check. We're good. Yeah. Yeah. So standard prices,
you can buy a six pack. If you do buy like the full pack, then you will get, you're guaranteed to get that, that chaser one, which does have that NFC chip has a very cool limited edition, uh, feature
that comes with it.
The rare, that's how we're doing it.
Um, and then we're also going to be tying in Z campaign too.
So everybody who buys boxes, uh, will earn Z, uh Zeet rewards for this. And there will be a
multiplier weekend for the people who purchase as well. So we're stacking everything into this one.
Again, it's a web three launch as much as it is a web two launch, hitting all angles.
And earlier I mentioned alignment, alignment with your holder base, alignment with your earliest supporters.
The other thing that I would be remiss if I didn't at least comment on and give you some more flowers is while you've built something very Web2 friendly, you've built something that should resonate with that social following for nobody's sausage that has no blockchain experience.
At the same time, you've tapped and are working with partners here
like you're you're from zeke to collector crip and really keeping things like i just i really
appreciate the approach and i don't know maybe no one cares about this i care like i think this
is how we grow together this is the pvp stuff is it's just it's idiotic at this point like we are such a small corner of the
internet we're such a small niche group of people that the reality is we all have a far more in
common than we don't and i think this is the sort of stuff that not only how you're going to market
but who you're going to market with like this is i again i hope other founders other teams are
listening and i i hope that this is the kind of stuff i'd like to see other teams copy-pasting with their own spin their own twist but taking something to a web 2 audience in a very
normal friendly way while also leveraging the technology working with the other crypto native
brands it's just everything i've heard today it is it is refreshing and one thing you said there
in passing i want to circle back to just to make sure i caught it right there's six different
variations and if you well you have the option to buy like a single pack or a six pack
and if you buy the six pack you're or and you're if you buy the pack you're guaranteed to get all
all variations by the 12 pack you're guaranteed to get the the rare okay got it got it yeah um
which again comes with it which comes with a unique claim to it. Okay.
Very cool.
Will we be buying,
I assume like the Shopify site you mentioned,
they can just pay with credit card and cash.
Both of them will have that option.
Both sites will have that option.
Collector Crypt,
again,
I think it's the best experience for this audience.
And,
and again,
you know,
we just want to make sure that when we do go out to his, his holder base on, on Instagram and TikTok, um, that they, this is by the way,
look at, looking at data, it's why we chose a plush, a plush blind box bag hang.
He's 70% women, 18 to 25 on Instagram and TikTok.
Uh, so the product itself is definitely geared
for that audience to purchase.
And we just want to make sure
that that is a clean, good experience for them.
70% women, did I catch that right?
So basically the exact same demographic as crypto.
I thought you were going to say Klano
because it is on Instagram.
But yes, I mean, that's the hardest part about being in this space, right?
Especially in the Klano side of things.
We also have Instagram, we have crypto, and then we also are building a family product for kids.
The GameLock game is for 6 to 12-year-olds.
The show is for 6 to 12-year-olds.
So, you know, we don't see it as a problem.
We don't see it as a problem. I think we're in the state of this world where you can easily sell products that might be normally geared towards kids to adults. It's been proven. And so, yeah, it is multi-generational when we look at the marketing and tying everything together.
I love it. I love the Z tournament. Go check that out if you're not yet over there.
I just realized that the Z account is not following me back.
I might have to have a word or two with pawns afterwards.
We'll send them a line.
We've kept you guys longer than I anticipated.
Really appreciate your patience getting started as we had an interactive conversation going on there with a lot of hands wanting to get in.
Is there anything we haven't asked you yet?
Is there anything that you haven't shared, whether it's regarding this
Nobody Sausage blind box, whether it's regarding
Hebu, Clayknows, anything that you wanted
to share before we let you get out of here and head to your
big drop?
We did the mobile
game. We did the blind
box for Nobody Sausage.
The digital integration will be
announced on the weekend. We have another
announcement behind for nobody's sausage.
That's pretty cool as well.
Totally different thing, but very, very interesting, especially for Web3.
And then we're in the new year after that, I think.
Anything before the end of the year?
No, then we're pushing Hebu.
We're going to be speaking at a lot of events this year.
I mean, we've really started to infiltrate Web2 entertainment events.
It's been a big push for us.
So you'll probably see cap speaking in other places, but yeah, I mean,
that's, that's our goal. We're spreading, we're spreading the word.
Well, first IPs.
Hopkins achievements. Yeah. For the suey folk and the Hopkins holders,
we are building out our achievement system. So there's going to be updates there.
But yeah, it's lots of fun stuff. I love it.
Continuing to build. You absolutely are. you're building in a very impressive way you know i didn't even
think about mentioning i do i see cab it feels like every other week he's at some major event
major you know conference non-crypto and again this how you all are navigating the two worlds
i it's a master's class again not gla not glazing. It probably comes across that way.
It's just like, please, everyone else pay attention.
I know it's challenging.
I know it's a lot of work, but this is the playbook.
I'm convinced how you're navigating,
everyone's got their own different things,
but we're not going to bring people into this space
by just going to crypto conferences
and just talking about the technology.
It's just not going to work.
It's a turnoff to most people. How you're the technology, it's just not going to work. Like it's a turnoff to most people,
how you're doing it. It's, it just makes a ton of sense. And yeah, you also,
you got a lot of fans in the chat from abstract to YouTube to our, our,
our DJ network war room, our discord. It's, if I had to guess, like,
I think Klaino's are probably the, the leading PFP from Zane to doomers.
And we've seen a lot of, you know, NFT OGs that have been around for a while.
Clanness is becoming their home base.
They're collecting their whole pods.
You guys are doing a lot of things, and you deserve more attention on the timeline.
I'm grateful for your time today.
I'm happy to help amplify anything we can, so don't be strangers.
Andrew, shout out to Andrew in the chat there.
And I know you've got to get out of here.
Do you have time for a question or two?
Yeah, we can do it.
Sure. Yep. Go ahead.
Who's big crypto?
Shout out. Another question. Just wanted
to say, man, I've always been a big fan of
Playnobs. I don't rock it as a PMP
but I rock it on every other social media
platform like my Instagram and everything just to help bring the web to us and i've always been a huge fan
because you guys were always aiming towards the web too you've never been like caught up in this uh
web 3 um pvp stuff and uh like you said i think you guys definitely have one of the best communities
in web 3 period and think about it, bro.
In this type of NFTs and whatever you think about, bro, you guys almost have 70% of the community staking.
Like imagine any other project trying to get that.
70% of the community has their Plano stake.
Can be sold for over a year, six months, or whatever,
however long term they put it up for.
But yeah, Plano's on top.
I love it.
Keep building.
Keep growing. Love you that's so great to hear we appreciate those words yeah a lot a lot of big fans and
well deserved this isn't exciting i can look sound like i'm glazing because i got you on the show but
i i genuinely mean it i i hear more like the sentiment towards clay knows and hebu and all
that you're building is, I don't
want to say unanimously, I'm sure you have your challenges.
I'm sure it's impossible to make everyone happy, but almost every other NFT, PFP brand
or crypto that that's the world they came from, I would say it's probably more than
50% are frustrated or sharing, you know, constructive feedback or concerns or straight
up complaints.
I don't remember the last time I heard anyone being upset or even critiquing
anything y'all are doing.
And that's very rare in not only in the on-chain world,
but especially in Q4 of 2025.
So keep doing what you're doing.
Really appreciate it.
And yeah, hope others are paying attention as well.
I did say we had the Nobody Sausage account jump on stage.
I'm not sure if they want to get any words in,
but I would just say if you're not following the account,
go get that a follow.
Let's make it 36 million before the end of the day.
And yeah,
again,
best of luck on the blind boxes.
Yeah,
absolutely.
I'll be,
I'll be buying maybe a 12 pack.
I'm,
I'm curious to see what else comes with this.
I will buy because I want to buy. I'm going
to have at least one. We'll throw it in the background. And I'm not saying this to...
Please buy what you can afford to buy. Don't buy with any other expectations than getting a cool
plushie or a cool keychain. 100%. I'm a degenerate and this gets me excited to do a little speculating
on. I don't know. maybe there's something more here.
And if not, I'm happy to support a team that I really respect how and what you
guys are building. So really appreciate your time today.
I know you've got a, I know you've got some time constraints this morning,
a lot you got to get done. So any, any final words for let you get out of here?
No blind boxes. That's coming up in nine minutes.
Yeah. We'll see if he's on schedule.
We'll see. I'll check my phone out out but thank you so much for having us on thank you guys really
appreciate it and uh yeah anytime love love love the conversation as always and again it is it is
refreshing is the word to keep coming back to mind it's you give me hope so thanks again
best of luck you got it again for our listeners if you're not following nobody's sausage account
uh go get that a follow.
It's up on,
on this basis stage.
Andrew's accounts also up there.
And if you click through Andrew's account,
you can also see the Hebrew official and the Klaino's account.
And yeah,
we'll let these guys get out of here.
We will,
if there's any other,
if anyone in the chat has,
you know,
wants to continue the conversation on,
on Klaino's,
nobody sausage,
feel free to feel free to jump up.
We can get those.
Or if anyone wanted to circle back to any of the other topics of the day, whether it be Coinbase or otherwise.
We've got a few minutes left here, but we'll let these guys get out of here and get on to their exciting day.
And we will chat with them soon.
That said, I am, I'm pumped.
I genuinely mean it.
This is, it is how more should be moving.
Yeah, Von Fronten, don't expect anything I'm buying.
Not because I expect anything.
I just, it's fun to have hope.
It's fun to speculate on teams that are doing things the right way and i'm my expectations
are nothing other than a blind box but i also like hey if if there's a chance to pull a rare if
there's uh um some other goodies there i am um it's talking to my heartstrings when they're doing
all the other stuff the right way so i just just, this is, it is really exciting.
And we are fortunate.
We get to talk to a lot of, you know, great leaders, great teams,
those pushing the space forward.
And I think this is certainly,
certainly one of those teams that is pushing the space forward.
Will, will Hebrew become the next Netflix?
Who knows? That's, that's an crazy, hairy audacious goal.
Will they be make an impact?
Will they bring more people into this space? Will they help push it forward?
To which I say, absolutely. They are like, we're seeing it happen now.
This is, you know,
your homework today is go click my base app ref link up top.
homework today is go click my my base app ref link up top go um um go follow nobody sausage and get
ready for this blind box obligation to buy but if you're into that sort of stuff this is a good one
to support from my perspective and keep an eye on this this team what they're building they're
absolutely moving differently than most and um they deserve more credit and attention than they're getting
in the crypto Twitter world. That said, we've got a few minutes left here.
Oxy, Rex, who's big? Machiavelli. I'm not sure hands are working. We've had X has been a little
finicky this morning without fail. We have an interview I'm excited about and it just randomly cuts out audio for no apparent reason. But any
other, any thoughts, questions, anyone want to, a couple items I don't think we mentioned on the
Coinbase side, but I'll just kind of fly over there as if there's, or wants to discuss, the 24-7 stock trading, it's a pretty
big deal. Equity perps, somewhat concerning, but pretty big deal. Prediction markets, that's
partnership with Cauchy. Token sales, they mentioned that. Monad was just the first one. Forget price action, token price,
valuation, all that. But the distribution, I think it was like 85,000 wallets across 70 countries,
something wild. And how they filled from the bottom up, I do like that. I think that's probably
the most fair and equitable ICO as far as the general public has been concerned in a while.
I think Von Fronten mentioned Coinbase, Joey mentioned Coinbase Advisor.
Basically, it's an AI-powered assistant to help you with your strategies and whatnot.
Crypto-backed loans, also a big deal.
Be able to pull out equity from your Bitcoin or Ethereum
right on one platform.
And the thing that excited me most
was the Coinbase business.
The payments, faster, cheaper, more global.
Custom stables all plays in together.
all plays in together. It's just in a time where...
It's just in a time where...
It's like Bitcoin is still... I don't know. I'm going to check now because maybe it's back over
90K. Yeah, it's running up again today, $88,000. So it's like... East at 3K. We are so far from
being dead. It's not going to zero. It's just been very confusing price action.
It's extremely volatile. And I think as a result, outside of Bitcoin and even ETH still
doing okay, I mean, Solana is at... I don't even have it in my...
It wasn't that long ago I said I was going to go. Solana was going to be my big buy in Q4.
And I, not so much.
125, it's up a percent of the day.
It did run up a little bit, pulled back here just in the last hour.
But, yeah, in a time where price action is confusing,
NFC sentiment is all-time low.
There's a lot to be excited about.
This Coinbase stuff's a big deal.
How the Klaino, the Hebu team is moving.
Like, this is how we do it.
This is how we get through this downturn.
This is also why I said yesterday,
like the way to lose in crypto,
other than just going 50X levered long
in short positions and getting wiped out in this volatility,
the way to assure yourself of not winning is leave, is exit the space, is stop paying attention.
There will be another meta. There will be another cycle. There will be another season.
There will be other opportunities to generate incredible returns here that it's hard to see in other industries,
other verticals.
Like, I don't know when it's going to be.
I don't know what it's going to be.
But I know that your potential to catch it
is much greater if you're here,
if you're paying attention,
if you're supporting these teams
like the ones we talked with today that are moving differently, that are really working to push the space forward, really working to onboard others into the space.
Like the Clayno holders, they're supporters.
I don't think they're getting these blind boxes.
They're free.
They're going to buy them.
That's fine.
Like I don't feel like a customer because they're not just selling me a plushie with nothing else.
And I would say no offense, but I do mean, like, stop doing that.
If you're a crypto native brand and you're selling a toy, a plushie, a blind box, some merch, and you're not attempting to distribute it outside of crypto twitter and
there's no tying with the tech what are you doing i don't need any more hoodies i don't
i don't need i don't i'm not buying any plushie that's gotten that's just a toy unless it's a dog
toy uh let's go make sure to claim to make sure to claim to when you got your plushy i said you
got your plushy make sure to check the yes little color yeah thanks for saying that because i i
mentioned the unboxing experience was great i don't even know if i hit on that like it's it's
just easy it works it's how it should be done every if you're a crypto native company whether
you're nft pfp native brand or completely different, if you're selling a physical product, what are you doing if you're not connected? What are you
doing if there's, it doesn't have to be an RWA, but there should be some sort of digital claim,
like make an attempt, make some effort. You know, we talked about ComplexCon and I think
ApeCo, ApeChain, BoardApeYYAC did a great job there because they helped tens of thousands of people get new crypto wallets and none of them even know about,
or very few of them even realize it yet because they obfuscated the tech. They hit it. It just
made it a simple user experience. It doesn't always have to be, you don't always have to
bring them in or share all the data. Get them started. Take at least the first step, make an
attempt, make an effort. And this team is certainly doing that.
Let's go Rex first and then Oxy.
I am going to go quickly step away.
I'll be able to hear you guys.
I'm just going to mute my video.
I'll be right back.
But Rex, go ahead.
Take it wherever you'd like.
And then Oxy, once Rex done, take the mic.
All right.
Thanks, Cap.
I just wanted to kind of reiterate that from my perspective, at least, it's really refreshing to see Web3 companies that are actually building in the time when we are at all-time lows.
To me, we talk about this is a time to buy when you're down, right, when things are low, but also it's a time to build.
and that's what I took out of that
And that's what I took out of that Klanisaur's presentation.
that clannosaurus presentation
it really, they're working
they're crushing it right now and
they're not letting anything like
sediment wise slow them down and I
think that that's a really important takeaway
at least for me, it makes me want to get a
clano honestly and
yeah it was very refreshing
so that's all I wanted to say for me
Oxy go ahead brother
yeah I was going to circle So that's all I wanted to say for me. Oxy, go ahead, brother.
Yeah, I was going to circle back.
I know we kind of pivoted into the Clayno's conversation a little bit more.
I wanted to circle back on Coinbase and their stock trading or tokenized stock trading. And, you know, lately, everyone on the timeline, at least in CT, talking about how Robinhood hood's like i mean it's the investment to have
it's the equity it's the equity play to make um i'm actually and i you know if you asked me six
months ago i probably wouldn't have been saying this but i'm actually kind of bullish on the way
coinbase is going to move with this tokenized stock trading they've been building in the crypto
space for a very long time. They're tapped into blockchain.
They're tapped into crypto.
They understand the tech.
Engineers and software developers are blockchain native developers.
And not to PDP, but if I'm looking at Robinhood and they're moving to tokenized stock trading, they just partnered with Arbitrum this year,
it's going to take a little while for them to get up to speed. If we're moving towards a world where
stock trading is completely on chain, it's with tokenized stocks, I might be putting my money
closer to Coinbase here. I think they have a really interesting position being so crypto-native
and blockchain native.
I think they could probably make a good run at this tokenized stock trading play.
Just given their experience and background in the space already.
So I think it's interesting.
I'll be really curious to see what the product looks like when it, you know,
when it starts rolling out.
And I'm hopeful that, you know, Coinbase can, you know, when it starts rolling out. And I'm hopeful that, you know, Coinbase can, you know,
kind of tap into this market,
at least be competitive in this retail trading market.
Because right now it feels like Robinhood's got a little bit of a monopoly on it
and tokenized stock trading is going to be,
it's going to be an interesting place to watch over the next couple of years.
it's going to be an interesting place to watch over the next couple of years.
I agree.
I agree.
It seems to me that Robinhood and Coinbase have,
especially with this recent announcement,
a pretty big lead in terms of,
let's just say this everything financial app.
Do you envision, do you think some of the incumbents some of the traditional whether it's actual banks or trying to think something maybe
maybe like more like an e-trade or like do you think we see them go the same route do you what
how do you think this plays out from a competitive landscape standpoint?
Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, at the end of the day, the need to have everything, well,
one first digitized. I think we're clearly seeing a move away know, banking or traditional banking and more to
this like digital world.
We've seen it, you know, with online only banks as of late.
And I know some people in the in the in the war room would definitely disagree with this
based on some messages this morning.
But we're moving away from this, you know, more traditional, like physical location or
brick and mortar world and more of this online world where
it's all in your phone or on your computer. So the next logical step for me is an everything app
where it has, okay, your banking is in here, your trading is in here, your retirement account is in
here, just like what Robinhood's doing and potentially Coinbase is going to move into.
just like what robin hood's doing and and potentially coinbase is going to move into
so i think i mean the la the logical progression is to be all in one single place and it's funny
because you kind of see you kind of see it first with social like social media platforms over the
last several years you know there was there was snapchat that had had like you know really quick
like pictures or videos and then they had stories.
And then it's, oh shit, okay, Instagram and then Facebook now has stories.
And then WhatsApp added stories because they wanted to integrate this.
And then, okay, now we need to add pictures because Instagram has its monopoly on pictures only.
And they all kind of start merging into the same platform or the same app,
trying to do everything all at the same time. And yet people still use,
you know, they still use these everything apps in their own capacity.
So it's like, it's a weird,
it's a weird like progression where there's these niche,
like very specific products that then start molding into everything apps that
do all the same thing that like everything else is
doing um so i don't know i think i think the movement towards this everything app is probably
the progression um and i don't know i guess i don't know it it better be more than just two
players i guess is my thought because i don't think it's healthy to have you know just two people in this in this realm i agree i agree at
the same time i'm i'm i'm concerned with all i mean i'm just going to go back to open c like i
don't yes we need more than two players at the same time i don't know as if it's in the best
interest for everyone to attempt to become the same thing i just i get a it's going
to be very competitive even if there was only these two they're two behemoths publicly traded
companies that have more resources than any other of the crypto natives any just thoughts on that i
and i i don't get out of context I'm attempting to choose my words carefully.
I'm not filtering myself.
I just...
Let me ask you this.
If your OpenSea or anyone else in the crypto-native world,
would you be jumping into this ring with Coinbase and Robinhood?
Or would you double down on your specialty?
Good question.
I don't know the right answer.
There's probably not one.
I mean, it's just where my brain goes.
And I don't know what it was exactly, but it really did hit me, this Coinbase announcement yesterday.
I'm like, oh, wow.
They're not just talking.
They're just not using the Everything app
as a buzzword or something in a pitch deck.
They're doing the thing.
And I know it's not going to be for everyone.
I know Coinbase is not for everyone.
I know that their customer service sucks
unless you're on crypto Twitter
and you bitch loud enough, Kobe will jump in your DMs and he'll be the superhero.
Kobe's not scalable, at least not yet until they can clone him or some AI agent that's just as good as him.
And that's, I still think, a ways off.
That's not satisfactory towards my mom.
If she has an issue with Coinbase, she's not going to have Kobe fix her problem.
She's not on, I mean, maybe she has an account, but she's not on crypto Twitter.
I just, I don't know, man. Something was, it was like a, I'll say it's an aha moment,
it's not the right way to say it, but this, I agree, more than two would be good, but I think that the two
in that race right now, while one is more crypto native than the other, I think they've
got a pretty big lead already as is, and not only lead in terms of what they've built or
what they've shipped or shipping soon, their user base is just,
it dwarfs probably every other crypto native company combined in terms of
their user base.
Like it's,
it's just,
it's massive and they also have an edge at top of funnel.
So I don't know the thoughts on that.
Am I,
am I,
I know I'm probably talking here.
I just,
Yeah,
I agree.
I mean,
I think it's,
yeah, they're, they're both, both of them are in a really unique position. I mean, Robinhood is basically king of retail stock trading and Coinbase is king of Coinbase crypto trading. a consumer base that they're now trying to expand in kind of pvp with each other so like it is really
a war between behemoths um i i'd be curious if like a a company like a binance or someone else
like kind of steps in the ring and tries to start competing in the same the same realm i could see
that that could be an interesting third party that comes in um but yeah i don't know like i mean if
um but yeah i don't know like i mean if if i'm a if i'm a crypto native app or protocol that's
building right now i'm probably continuing to build out that my niche product that has real
product market fix or has some real utility in the hopes and this is probably so i don't know
this is a mid-curve take probably but um in the hopes that i could get integrated into one of
these mega apps down the line i mean you look you look at Kelsey and their integrations into all these different
companies in Phantom and now they're partnered with Coinbase. It's like these kinds of integrations
are, I mean, that's a highway to success right there is because you don't have to build out
the platform. You don't have to build out the platform you don't have to
acquire new users they do all the legwork for you you get you get paid the fees and or the the
royalties or the rev share or whatever the agreement ends up being like that that is the
that is the that's the gold mine right there is is being able to get integrated into these different
is being able to get integrated into these different mega apps or I guess any wallet app or any banking app or whatever it might be.
That's the ticket right there. strategy that can farm yield and in in uh like rebalance liquidity pool as well or um you know
whatever it might be i would you know keep building that out market it as like this this great way for
people to save like store money generate yield and it's like a savings platform or you know
whatever it might be and then get integrated into one of these apps because ultimately if, if this is the way we're going, where people are going to be storing
their money there to trade and then maybe even as a savings account or a retirement
account like what Robinhood's doing, then being integrated into some of these apps is
going to be massive.
Maybe one last thing that might pivot into another conversation related to Coinbase is the one thing that does really concern me and makes me not excited for the future of the world right now is the integration of prediction markets into these apps.
putting a ton of their life savings into these apps to trade stocks,
or maybe their retirement account is already in the app,
like in the case of some Robinhood users, or I don't know,
they have a ton of crypto in their Coinbase wallet,
adding prediction market and adding perp trading that's easily available to people.
I can only see where this goes south in the in the way we're
heading with this hyper gambling type thing uh uh society that we're we're evolving into
that just makes me really really nervous for a lot of people um so so what is it is it i just
back to education because i don't it's not fair to exclude these financial tools from the masses. It's not fair to me. Oh, you have to you have to be an accredited investor. You have to make 250 grand a year or have a million dollars network to even participate in this stuff. Well, the average zoomer, how the hell are they ever going to get there? At the same time, you're exactly right.
Like, it's – they should be accessible.
At the same time, people are going to get wrecked.
There's just no way around it.
People – like, it's scary.
It's concerning.
It's exciting at the same time, and I don't know the solution.
I don't know the answer other than better education starting in like elementary school. And I know that I'm going to fix things tomorrow. Maybe, I'm not trying to put it on them, but maybe the only idea, like thinking, like I said, if I'm going to critique something, come with a potential solution.
I'm going to critique something, come with a potential solution.
The only idea that I can think of right now would be like gamify it.
Like, you know, when you play a video game, you got to go through a tutorial first, like
for some education.
Some people are going to like the people who understand are probably going to hate it.
But like before you can open up a 50 X leverage long, force that user to go through some form of online tutorials, some form of education, something to at least attempt to educate them on the risk.
And putting a disclaimer and letting them know that that's not it.
People don't read that shit stuff.
Sorry.
Like there's got to be – I think the answer is, yeah, yeah everyone should have access but we need better education
and it's not just a disclaimer of you know don't risk money you can't afford to lose this could
go to zero because people can read that people can understand that and not realize that in one
candle their entire they can get entirely liquidated like it's you can say it you can
read it and until you experience it like i i do think there's somewhat of a rite of passage in the perpetrating world.
That's okay for a trader, for someone that's here every day.
It's not good for, you know, an 18-year-old gets some graduation money.
They open up their Coinbase account and they get wiped out in their first 30 days off prediction markets and
perps. It's going to happen. I'm certain it's going to happen. And then people start doing
bad things. People start harming themselves. It's like, this isn't just... I mean, I vividly
remember this. I can't say vividly because I don't remember all the details, but I think it was, it was either Robinhood or Coinbase.
And I would say some kid in Chicago or Chicagoland area had basically traded on margin, just margin.
And ended up like their account was like negative a hundred grand or something.
He killed himself.
It's like, don't do that.
It's just money.
It's just numbers on a screen.
But that's the kind of stuff that like that happened with just margin trading.
And now we're talking perps and prediction markets and stuff that's extremely volatile, extremely high risk.
And while I want to say it should be accessible to everyone, it's not for everyone.
And disclaimers simply aren't sufficient. I want to say it should be accessible to everyone. It's not for everyone.
And disclaimers simply aren't sufficient.
Yeah, I completely agree.
Yeah, and I'm in the same boat. I mean, I think everyone should have the ability to compound wealth, invest smartly in different markets all across industries.
And limiting it to people who have tons of money.
I understand the accredited investor argument because they're fiscally responsible and educated
on your, or you'd think educated on money.
But at the same time, you're right.
It's like gatekeeping this from people is not the right answer.
Like one thing, especially with perps,
and I've been trying to kind of like disseminate this message
is a lot of people don't understand
like the difference between cross margin
and isolated margin when they open up a perp account.
Like Hyperliquid is moving to
allow you to have one portfolio and then to be able to trade on margin off the entire portfolio.
So it doesn't matter if it's in the spot account or the perp account, the whole entire portfolio
that you have on your Hyperliquid is open to leverage and or margin, which means it could entirely be wiped out
with a liquidation event. And a lot of these PERP platforms, their default is cross margin.
So what's that mean? Okay. If you enter into a trade on cross margin, while having the entire
portfolio accessible for that margin trading, your entire portfolio could get wiped out.
And that I think is on the platforms to figure out. You can't default to cross margin. You can't
default to portfolio margin. Those types of things are, I don't want to say predatory,
but the people that don't understand and aren't educated on it aren't going to know the difference and they're going to get wiped out at the first liquidation event.
Like that's the kind of thing that one, it's an education thing.
I agree. But also like the default being cross margin or portfolio margin trading is just not healthy or or.
You know, I don't like I feel like it's not right for people who don't
understand what they're getting themselves into. I agree. And I know it's not as simple as this
cast. I'm excited to get your thoughts on this and wherever else you want to take. It's, uh,
one of the big brains I always love hearing from. Um, I, I, I'm, I know the difference between isolated margin and cross margin,
and I still got wiped on 10-10.
Like, it's just, you can still know, and it still stings a little bit.
And I know it's not as simple as this.
I know it's not the answer, but at least not making it the default,
I think, is the first step.
Make them go through, I don't know why I'm having so much issue with the video
feed today, I keep freezing.
Make them go through some silly tutorial.
I know this isn't the answer.
If anyone has any better ideas, I'm all for it.
I'm just attempting to think like, what could some guardrail bees be? Like
maybe make them complete a test first, like something to show basic financial understanding,
basic financial acumen, understand, even define cross margin versus isolated margin.
Because hovering over a little icon that explains what it is. It's just not going to be enough for most people that have never done this before. By the way, um, I did again, not to bring everyone down
as we near the end of the show, but since I mentioned it, I did find that story I was
referencing earlier. It was a, uh, it's a Forbes article I pinned up top and, um, it wasn't 100 grand. It was a 20-year-old saw a negative $730,000 account balance
and took his own life.
And I think they ended up,
Robin Hood and this family settled out of court.
It was Naperville.
My memory did serve me right there.
It's just tragic.
I don't know.
I don't want to go on this further.
Let's get... Save me from myself,
Cass. Help me get this back on the
tracks without being a tragic end to the show.
And then we'll go back to Rex.
Cass, GM, always a pleasure.
GM, GM. It's a pleasure to be here. This is a great conversation. So I want to dive right into
it. I definitely agree. The disclaimer is not enough. But the hard truth of it is that the
platforms, they benefit from the lack of education. It behooves them on a profit side for them to not
teach you enough. But I almost want to counter that point and say that that's short-sighted
because it would behoove them even more if people continue to trade because they are more educated,
because they can win more, because they feel empowered by the education,
they feel confident in their trading, they want to share, they want to put people on,
they want to put people onto your exchange, to your platform, to your app. So I think on one
hand, it behooves them to have this version of profit, to have uneducated people lose.
But I think it's a bit short-sighted. I agree.
And I love the exchange that I use.
I've used them for like over half a decade.
So I don't want to name them because they have really good prices.
But similar to what Oxy was saying,
they have like spot trading versus market trading.
And what's interesting to me is that
the classic or the beginner version when you
first get it actually has like higher rates. And when you get into the pro version of it,
which is free, like they don't charge those traders as much. And I thought that was interesting.
You don't get the best deal when you're doing like a stop loss. You know, they're not giving you the market price, they're giving you the spot trading
price. And so that is to me more blatant. It's not like, okay, both versions of the platform,
you know, you have to understand the default and you can switch it. It's that the beginner version,
you lose out and the pro version you don't so like these are things that i think are
on purpose you know where again the point of they know it's easy money to get those beginners
to make those trades uh and get the percentages that that behooves the platform i just think
it's short-sighted though so those are my my hot takes on it great takes and i actually think you might
be onto something there back to like the whole education the training thing is like yeah you
have a pro account but don't just make people pay for it i know i paid my 29.99 a month or whatever
it is for coinbase one and it's fine it works maybe give your your new user an opportunity to get that for free by completing
this educational course i know this sounds cheesy guys i hate element learning management software i
hate going through an online training i just gotta click and i gotta listen to this video and i don't
pay attention to him and i just and i take the test as many times i need you to pass it i'm not
a fan of that we gotta got to do something better though.
I really do.
Yes, it's on the user.
At the same time,
if we're making this so widely accessible,
I do hope these platforms
put in some potential guardrails,
at least attempt to educate.
And maybe it's carrot versus stick.
Maybe it is like,
hey, take this educational course for free,
and you're going to pay less fees. I'm not saying it's the answer, but it might help a few people
prevent themselves from getting wiped out. Rex, go ahead and get in here. And then we will,
we've ran a little long today. Payne, I appreciate your patience with us in the green room. We got
post-production show and I got to get out of here i was supposed to be out by 10 so probably gonna have housekeeping
knock on the door any minute uh rex go ahead i appreciate you joining the stage and really
enjoyed the conversation that takes you brought hey uh so i wanted just to kind of touch on i
know we don't really want to talk too much about it but i'm pretty sure with that particular story
i remember when it came out that he might have been like i think it was leverage trading with
margins or something along that lines but it was was actually a glitch. The crazy part about that whole thing is
it wasn't even accurate. And I think he just, he couldn't get in touch with Robinhood or whoever
the company was in time to be able to like realize that it wasn't nearly as bad as he thought it was.
So, but Kat, I love that your, your perspective on the, the short-sighted aspect of margin trading and how that whole thing facilitates because I completely agree.
I was actually – right when I got into it, I was super excited when they gave me margin right out the gate, and I started just ripping with Tesla, and it was the greatest thing until it wasn't, and I just got wrecked.
So I can absolutely relate to that.
My thought on that is maybe they come up with like some sort
of a probationary period i don't know if i'm gonna call it that but ultimately where you are
essentially weaned on to the ability to do that like you get a small percentage of the ability
versus like them just giving you 50 or whatever percent you get for margins maybe they could give
you like a five percent and then it would give the person time to realize what's actually happening
do some youtubing.
If they're, you know, maybe not open to the class or whatnot, I do like that as well, Cap.
But regardless, just let the people educate themselves one way or another and give them time before they get wrecked, I think is the takeaway there.
That would be wonderful to start seeing.
Yeah, great call. Yeah, and I agree. Margin and leverage is the greatest thing in the world until it's not. You feel like a genius when things are going up, and then you log back in the next day like,
oh, I shouldn't have left that trade open while I went to holiday dinner.
Yeah, it goes both directions very fast. It absolutely helps you compound your gains and your losses. And sometimes like what we saw yesterday,
within not hours, not days, minutes or seconds,
like you just, please don't open up a cross margin
leverage long or short if you can't be in front of your computer
and actively, unless you got stop losses and take profits,
you know,
baked in,
don't,
you just can't,
you're doing it wrong if you have,
leave open trades open and stop paying attention.
Because in this market,
it's just,
it's way too volatile to be,
to be taking on those risks that are,
but again,
your, your average new Coinbase user,
unfortunately, they're not going to realize or understand or know that until they, they take
the L unless we, we collectively do better with our education piece. One last, I'm going to get
you out of here. Really enjoyed the conversation. Really enjoyed all of our guest speakers today,
our special guests, as well as our guest speakers. You all are bringing the heat.
And yeah, really, this might be, I want to actually go back and listen to because
there was just so many, just like I mentioned to the
Klaino and Hebu team, like
it's refreshing. This conversation is refreshing. Like this space isn't going anywhere. And there's
a lot of really smart, really intelligent, really talented people. And I am excited about where
we're heading. I am excited for 2026. Just don't blow up your whole port while we get there. Like
it's not going to just happen overnight. It's not going to be easy. I've already asked way more homework than I normally do,
but I will one more ask.
My holiday ask, what I want for Christmas.
You're going to see my keyboard.
Actually, one of the things I'm getting myself for Christmas is a dedicated camera,
so you won't see my screen bouncing
when I pound keyboard keys.
Again, the Billing Mavis beacon, not me.
If you enjoy the show, and I'm going to start doing this earlier in the show. So we have a
more, more peak listing time, not as a, after you've already supposedly ran, wound down.
I just posted in the comments, I'm going to drop it up above. You've probably noticed there,
you've heard us talk about, we're making some changes in terms of structurally and branding. And our guy Payne
has been literally working around the clock and he's working overtime. So I've had him hanging
out in the green room for 30 minutes. We've even something as simple changing our title.
We've removed daily NFT conversations from the title. You'll see it's now Coffee with Captain, crypto markets, products, and builders.
I would greatly appreciate a five-star rating review.
If you don't think I earned five stars,
if you don't think I earned five stars,
that's fine.
Give us whatever you feel is warranted,
but give us some feedback as to why.
Don't just leave a one-star review
and say you don't like because I'm a Buckeye fan.
If it's not five stars, what could we do to be better?
But we would appreciate your candid review the the even if you don't want to take the time to leave to type a few words the five-star rating is very helpful um we're if you search coffee with captain
now we index first on almost everything there is still some fishing podcast, an actual captain who I don't think has published anything since 2020.
And for whatever reason, still indexes over us on the Apple podcast link.
When you do Google search, like Spotify, we're number one.
The website's up there.
Like we're doing, we're making progress.
YouTube, but the one area for some reason, we're just not popping on Apple Podcasts.
So appreciate the rating reviews everywhere from Spotify to anywhere and everywhere you can give us positive feedback is greatly appreciated.
But even more so than clicking my base app, RefLink, I'd even more so appreciate if you take the time to go give us a rating review on Apple Podcasts.
I did pin that up top. It's in the Jumbotron.
It does mean the world to us. We read all those. I may not respond to comments, but we'll call them out on Apple Podcast. I did pin that up top. It's in the Jumbotron. It does mean the world to us.
We read all those.
I may not respond to comments,
but we'll call them out on the show.
Maybe that's what we'll do, Payne,
is we'll pick a...
Actually, let's do this.
Here's our homework, Payne.
Let's find, for Christmas,
let's find something fun,
do a fun giveaway,
a fun prize or reward.
Maybe it's a Nobody Sausage Blind Box.
I don't know.
If I buy 12 of those,
we'll give away 11.
How about that?
To someone who specifically leaves us a
rating review on Apple Podcasts.
That's not like a plan. If you like that,
flash some hearts or 100 or
clap in the cast's game.
So if you have other ideas, something else would be
fun, exciting. I'm not
looking to buy your love. I'm not looking to
I'm not
go leave us a rating or review because you
genuinely enjoy the show, not because you might get something free out of it. I'm just saying
our gift to someone, at least one individual, will, our next winner, whatever it might be,
we're going to pull from the Apple podcast rating and review oars over there. That said,
thank you all so much for being here today. Appreciate y'all hanging out with us. Not for an hour, not for two,
but two and a half hours this morning, getting through
some big Coinbase news,
some other announcements from Gandhi,
and most importantly, our guest over
at Clayno's, Hebu,
and Nobody's Sausage. That
blind box probably is live.
And yeah, go support some good
teams in the space. Have a great Thursday.
We'll be back tomorrow, as as always 8 a.m.
Eastern time.
Hope you all have a wonderful, wonderful day, everyone. .
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