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NodeMonkes ATH, NFT Equity & Project Takeovers - Lucky Lead
Recorded: Jan. 4, 2024 Duration: 1:02:31Space Recording
Full Transcription
For folks to filter in, get our speakers up on stage.
While we wait, here are some tunes.
One, two, three, four.
One, two, three, four.
One, two, three, four.
One, two, three, four.
It is a cold but sunny winter morning here in Chicago.
The crypto markets are feeling a bit sunny this morning as well.
After a gloomy start to yesterday, NFTs feeling pretty sunny over on Bitcoin and Solana right
now too.
Over on Ethereum, not as much.
We're going to break it all down on today's show with you all here.
I see some friendly faces out there.
Woody, Marco, Serpon, Sway.
Thanks for joining.
As a reminder for any new listeners out there, we do run this show every weekday, Monday to
Friday at 10 a.m.
Eastern, covering all the major news in crypto and NFTs.
I'm your host, Tyler D., and I'm joined today by some amazing co-hosts.
We've got Emily Loves Crypto, a Web3 security expert and co-founder of Foolproof Labs.
Ghost, content star over at Lucky Trader, Quiet Whale, deep in the AI streets but still hanging
out with us.
And then Logan Hitchcock, editor-in-chief over at Lucky Trader, embracing his left curve arc,
his farmer arc.
And he's been covering the space in depth for years.
Logan, GM, how are you doing?
Good morning, Tyler.
I'm doing well.
Very, very cold here in PA, but I'm trying to stay as warm as I can with the market.
Well, stay as warm as you can, but it is stay inside season, which is kind of good for those
of us who are glued to the screens, rightfully or wrongfully.
Folks, what are we talking about today on the docket?
We're going to start with those node monkeys reaching a new all-time high.
Binance buying meme token, Utes getting swept and dumped and kind of exposing a primary
problem on the ETH and NFT market.
We're going to talk 50 doodles versus 5 Bitcoin, NFT projects looking for buyouts and a whole
lot more.
Before we dive in, though, Ghost, any housekeeping for today?
Yeah, you know it.
As always, if you enjoy this show, Tyler does a great rundown of the NFC space every morning
in the Morning Minute newsletter.
You've got that pinned to the top of the spaces.
Make sure you give that a subscribe if you haven't already.
All right, Ghost.
Thank you for that.
Well, let's dive right in.
Today's top story directly from the Morning Minute newsletter.
Node monkeys soar to an all-time high over on Bitcoin.
So the ETF FUD from yesterday morning didn't stop at least one Bitcoin NFT collection from
pumping the new darling of the Bitcoin ordinal's NFT scene.
Node monkeys reached a new all-time high overnight at 0.26 Bitcoin.
It has since retraced a bit, holding it at 0.24.
But one thing seems clear.
This collection has squarely put itself on the map and in the PFP rankings.
So what happened?
Node monkeys have been dominating volumes since they began trading last Friday.
They did 140 Bitcoin volume yesterday and have seen a whopping 740 in their first five and
a half days of trading.
That's $6 million on the day yesterday and over 32 million in total in just five and a
half days.
That high trading volume has sent the floor basically up only if you take a look at the
chart with really only one pullback in price when it went from 0.19 to 0.12.
And in a sense up 100% to level set at 0.24 Bitcoin.
The floor is $10,380 or 4.65 E.
That is an 8X from the 0.03 Bitcoin mint price.
And it doesn't seem to be slowing down, but it's not just traders buying floors.
Collectors do seem to be stepping in, evidenced by rare and mid-tier sales here.
The node monkeys have seen, they have several traits that pay homage to crypto punks, board
apes, and other top end NFT collections.
Their alien trait has been the most coveted with sales ranging in the two to three Bitcoin
range.
The current floor at six Bitcoin certainly would be a fireworks moment if it sells there.
Hoodies, always a popular trait in PFP collections, have steamed up to a 0.58 Bitcoin floor.
The gold body trait has risen to 1.25 Bitcoin.
We haven't really seen a collection with this degree of above floor sales in, I'd say, well
over a year and perhaps not really since the Azuki Moonbirds era of early 2022.
So, you know, where do the monkeys stack up right now?
Sam, NC Statistics, friend of the show, shared some interesting data earlier this morning.
By floor market cap, node monkeys have already reached the number seven spot in PFP rankings.
I had to quickly run through that list.
Punks are at 1.25 billion.
Bored apes are at 600 million.
Mutants are at 227.
Pudgy penguins in fourth at 214 million.
Mad Laz in fifth at 176.
Azuki in sixth at 140.
Node monkeys now in seventh place at market cap at 103 million.
Tensorians in eighth at 100 million.
Bitcoin frogs are ninth at 98.
And then captains round out the top 10 at a $90 million market cap.
So node monkeys are seventh in market cap.
They're actually sixth in floor price because those mutants are a 20K set and not 10 set.
So it's also very interesting to note that four of the top 10 are outside of ETH, with Bitcoin having two spots and Sol having two spots.
Perhaps a sign of the times.
I think, you know, why are these doing so well early?
We talked about this a little bit yesterday.
Combination of good traits, a new non-derivative high effort PFP product on Bitcoin, where many traders want exposure.
The early inscriptions and now, you know, this pool of collectors buying in, touting, changing their PFPs, folks like Barack Crimo.
So we will soon see how much staying power these monkeys have.
Regardless, it's been a massive win for mentors.
So I'm going to pause there.
We talked about these yesterday.
But, I mean, we got to revisit here this morning in what was kind of a slower day across markets that the node monkeys are standing out.
You know, what's going to stop these?
Like, Logan, I'm going to tee you up here first.
You know, what's going to prevent node monkeys from continuing this up-only path?
I think one thing for sure, any potential macro hindrance, right?
Like yesterday, the Bitcoin ETF, you know, whether you want to call that FUD or misreport or whatever the case may be, there's a rejection for real.
Something like that, I think, could definitely deter momentum, you know, not only for, you know, node monkeys, but just the entire space itself, right?
So that would be probably, like, the number one thing, top of mind for me.
The other things that, like, I'm thinking about a little bit are, you know, potential.
We talked about this yesterday, like, what other collections realistically could challenge.
It doesn't feel like any are right around the corner, but we've seen this stuff from Jack Butcher, right?
We know about, like, Taproot Wizards.
I don't know how far away that is, right?
But those would be a couple others that could potentially challenge and maybe just stall momentum that right now is funneling only to node monkeys, in my opinion, on Bitcoin.
So those would be a couple of things.
Otherwise, though, like, I don't see those personally being anything in the very, very near term with the ETF news notwithstanding.
I don't see the other things being in the near term.
And so I don't really see a momentum stalling anytime soon.
Yeah, you raise some good points.
I tend to agree.
Certainly, any wild macro swings are always an impact factor, at least in the hyper near term.
And then I think the biggest risk factor on my list, some upcoming major releases, Taproot Wizards.
But I don't think those are coming anytime soon.
The nearest term big set drop, I believe, is T.O.
T.O. from the Ninja Alerts Project.
Those pizza ninjas do seem to be releasing around the corner.
So that could be one that steals some attention.
But, you know, we will see.
Gosterhand popped up.
Kind of curious for your reaction.
What could be stopping these?
What risk factors?
How are you feeling?
We talked about it a little bit yesterday.
But, like, the team doing anything, like, I think is probably the biggest risk.
And, like, this collection has been so much off of just vibes.
And people, like, like the collection.
They like collecting it.
It feels like the old mints of 2021 that people really, really liked.
And I think that both me and you were kind of stayed away in the beginning there.
We're kind of scared away by some of the mechanic changes.
And, like, the Discord being hacked and not being able to get that sorted out.
So I think that the team doing anything that might be counter to what people are feeling with the vibes right now would be the biggest risk factor to me.
So I'm just hoping that they let it be kind of like a CryptoPunk situation and let people enjoy the collection for what it is personally.
And I don't know if anyone's expecting anything because there's no roadmap or anything.
There's no airdrops coming that we know of.
So hopefully it just stays as is.
Don't make any mistakes.
I certainly like that.
I do want to kind of get into that a little bit later because last night I was actually thinking, you know, are they going to go a potential board ape route and launch the mutant node monkeys?
And how would that do?
You know, right now I feel like there would be some pretty high demand for that.
Of course, like the floor price isn't high enough to really start those discussions just yet.
But if these things continue to move, it wouldn't surprise me.
And Jay Fells, I see you requested to come up.
You're rocking a Node Monkey hoodie.
So quite a nice Node Monkey there.
Welcome to the show.
Kind of curious for your thoughts.
What could be stopping these from an up-only trajectory?
How are you feeling about the collection?
Yo, GMGM.
Thanks for having me.
I actually just secured my Grail Node Monkey, a golden monk.
And, yeah, I guess you have to refresh the PFP, but I just posted about it.
There were six of them that sold overnight.
Six Bitcoin.
The floor is at 1.25 Bitcoin.
What?
So I'm trying to figure that out.
What can slow this down?
The community, this is like the apex predator of all fucking NFTs, sitting on Bitcoin, the best blockchain of them all, the mega monster.
And, I mean, bro, the thing is, we're not like every .1 that moves up, it's not .1 ETH.
I think people are getting introduced to the possibility of making multiple Bitcoin on an NFT project.
And the community just expands to every single other chain.
Everyone wants to be a part of this.
I've never seen anything like it.
What can stop it?
I don't know.
Maybe the devs coming out saying they're going to sell us some hoodies for $300.
I'm not sure.
Jay doesn't want to see the team make any mistakes here either.
So the second question I had on our call sheet here, I'm going to throw it to you first, Jay Fels, is how important these rare sales have been for you, for the broader market.
I mean, we saw those alien sales pretty early.
Then the hoodie sales started taking off.
And then now last night, it seems like the gold bodies have really just kind of gone totally off.
Now they're at 1.2.
How important are those types of sales to you when you're evaluating a collection?
Dude, that's everything.
That's the number one signal of any NFT project when massively above floor sales are happening, when true collectors are taking their time to look through a collection and secure their grail and put that kind of capital at risk.
Dude, within 72 hours, I think, three days of the project launching, you got someone spending half a million dollars on the alien, sweeping three of them?
I mean, it's unprecedented.
I mean, it brings me back to the Moonbird phase a year or two ago.
That's the only time I can remember that happening.
And the hype that was built up on that project, I mean, it's incredible, man.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
That's everything when people are securing the grails and the rares.
Yeah.
I was going to ask if you had any kind of comparisons in your mind.
So, I think we saw a bit of this in the 2021, 2022 peak bull mania, right?
Certainly, Bored Apes saw tons of rare sales go very high.
Crypto Punks, of course.
We saw Doodles.
You know, they hit some.
They had some very nice rares in the collection.
Azuki and Moonbirds are the kind of ones that come to mind.
I'm curious if any of those kind of stand out to you as comps.
You mentioned Moonbirds, but any other of those collections that you're kind of thinking about in a mental model?
I mean, so Doodles, you know, I personally had three Skellies at a point in time,
but that wasn't within three or four days or anywhere near the first week.
I mean, that took two or three months to build up the community and the floor price.
But really, it's just, yeah, it's just the Moonbirds that had that kind of volume so quickly.
But, you know, listen, Moonbirds, we all saw what happened with Moonbirds.
I mean, the floor went up to 35 east, I think.
And then a few weeks later, it crashed down to 20.
So, you know, I would personally like to see it, you know, maybe organically slow down just a bit.
As fast as something goes up is as fast as it will go down.
That's just history, man.
So, definitely, listen, you know, be careful, guys.
If you're up big, always take a little bit of profit, man.
At least the best case scenario, take that initial investment out.
You know, from my experience, I've definitely fucked up and didn't do that a few times.
But this time is different.
This cycle is our cycle.
Let's go.
Well, I love the enthusiasm.
One last question for you, and then we'll go back kind of around the horn a little bit.
You know, we've been talking about, you know, what could stop this.
Do you think, you know, there's been a lot of calls for node monkeys to one Bitcoin, which is, you know, I don't know the exact math, like 19 Ethereum, 20 Ethereum.
We can just call it 20 for, you know, easy math.
Do you think there's a psychological barrier at that number?
Could they actually get past one and flip board apes?
Or do you think there'd just be tremendous pressure at that point?
Again, that's an excellent question.
And one that I've been really trying to figure out myself.
Yes, everyone, everyone is saying one Bitcoin, one Bitcoin.
Could it be stopped when we reach that point?
Sorry, I had a phone call.
Hello?
No worries.
Yeah.
Yeah, we're still with you.
Sorry about that.
Dude, once one Bitcoin gets hit, why can't two?
It's a great question.
I know, I have an answer.
One Bitcoin is the escape velocity that the project needs to reach in order to actually hit the real fucking Bitcoin whales, bro.
I mean, like, we think we know what ETH whales are.
Yo, Bitcoin whales?
That's a whole other level, man.
And that's what this is tapping into, bro.
So get ready.
All right.
Well, JFL is clearly very bullish on the collection.
We appreciate all your thoughts.
Ghost, maybe I'll kick it back to you.
You know, could we see a flip of some of these premier Ethereum collections?
Azuki, Mutants are kind of next up at five and six.
Do you think we could see a board eight flip?
With your Moonboy hat on right now, what are you thinking?
I don't know about the board eight flip.
I do think that one Bitcoin floor is definitely possible.
It just feels like the friction of Bitcoin, the desire for people to, like, move over to a chain, and this might be the first time that they're moving over.
Like, that's an important narrative.
And when you want, like, an organic IP, we talked about this yesterday as well, where it's like, man, like, all of the copy paste stuff that we saw going on to ordinals, like, didn't really appeal to a lot of people.
Because it just felt very fraudulent, in a way.
And I feel like this is the first organic IP that has really resonated with a large amount of, like, Ethereum people that has gotten them to move over.
And there's been other stuff.
But I'm not saying this is the first IP that's brand new on ordinals.
But this is the first one that seems to have gotten traction in a way that has gotten all the people on Ethereum to kind of have that FOMO and kind of want to move over there.
And for a lot of people, it's been their first ordinal experience.
So I think that's a powerful meme and a powerful thing there.
So I definitely think that the one Bitcoin floor is possible.
And I don't know that people are, like, I know that we're all looking and saying, oh, it's going to flip this, it's going to flip that.
But I don't know if, like, psychologically, people are just watching and hoping for that one Bitcoin floor.
I'm not really looking at converting that immediately over to ETH to see what it's flipping, you know.
Right. And it's silly. It's just like talking heads.
Writers like me continue to do that.
I keep putting the ETH price out there just as a comparison point.
But I don't think folks kind of actively trading over on Bitcoin with ordinals right now are really worried about that conversion.
So we will continue to see.
Logan, I'll plug you into the conversation, maybe more broadly, kind of coming back to that top 10 list.
I mean, when you look at that top 10, and Sam tweeted it out this morning, I mean, we've got two Solana projects in the top 10, Mad Lads at 5th, Tensorians at 8th.
Tensorians actually may have flipped Node Monkeys because they're up another, like, 10% since I ran the numbers this morning.
Then we've got two ordinals in the collection here in the top 10 at 6th and 9th.
You know, what are your broader takeaways of that?
What do you think the top 10 list is going to look like in three to six months?
More ETH, less ETH, more in these particular chains?
What's your read?
Yeah, it's super interesting.
I would not have been able to even come close to probably guessing or, you know, putting together.
I mean, I would have gotten a few of them.
I would not have gotten all of them.
Would have never had Bitcoin frogs, etc.
In terms of the near future, I do think you're going to see more probably Bitcoin projects find their way in there.
Some of that's going to be as a result of the fact that Bitcoin is worth more, right?
And some of these collections will find their way up as a result of that, given their big, you know, depending on how big the collections are.
So, yeah, I think there will be fewer ETH, more Bitcoin.
That would be my guess moving forward.
I don't really see any other Solana projects making enough of a dent besides the two listed here to stay in the top 10 by market cap.
But I definitely see more Bitcoin collections.
Like if Taproot Wizards dropped today, for example, my expectation is it would find its way to the top 10 pretty quickly.
Yeah, I would tend to agree there.
I think what also jumps out to me is, I mean, is how you kind of went there a little bit, like how quickly this list changed.
Like in November, like Mad Lads, I'll be honest, Mad Lads, I knew about them.
They weren't really even seriously on my radar.
Tensorians were not on my radar at all.
And then these projects, they 10X'd in Seoul, I think, even more in USD terms after Solana ran up so much.
So it just goes to show how quickly the space can change.
And any predictions you try to make, how quickly they can get thrown out the window.
Jay Fells, your hand popped up kind of curious for your thoughts on what the top 10 could look like here in three to six months.
Well, a big part of what's contributing to the node mugs is that there's no blur fucking dumpage, man.
The floor is really sticky, okay?
It's not, it's a hard thing to do to like dump more than five or eight node mugs or any ordinals.
So I think that's something that needs to be paid attention to, which is contributing to the enjoyment of collecting ordinals now.
It's bringing back the old school NFT collector vibes.
Yeah, I think that is very important.
I think we were going to get to that later in the show, but perhaps we can just talk about it a little bit now.
I mean, we saw that with Utes yesterday.
It's like the move with Utes is, I mean, it's a bit hyperbolic, but I mean, it's an example that actually happened.
So a whale bought, I don't know, like 100, 180, I don't have the exact totals, swept a huge amount of Utes.
The floor goes from 0.57 to 0.75 ETH.
You know, everyone's kind of talking, the chats are popping, what could be coming for Utes, what's Frank planning?
And then just, you know, a few hours later, within the same day, the farmer dumps the entire bag and it totally round trips from 0.75 back to 0.57.
It's just total farmer games.
And, you know, as a newcomer, like, why do you want to trade in this market?
Why do you want to trade in these collections that are being controlled by a handful of farmers who don't want the NFTs?
They simply want blur points.
It's becoming a real barrier.
And I think that's another factor that's driving a lot of the action over on Solana and now Bitcoin.
I think it's hard to underestimate that.
Emma, your hand popped up.
I'd love your thoughts.
Yeah, I think it's just important to recognize that, you know, what we're trading in is a young market.
And it's just a matter of time before it reaches parity with something that's been around longer, like Eve, especially since the path has been paved, right?
Even if it's not the best for the culture, somebody wants that opportunity.
Somebody is going to take advantage of that, you know, predictable win that they've seen in the past and they're going to build it.
So, I mean, I think that that's something really important to keep in mind.
I mean, they may choose to do it slightly differently.
They may choose to not include an airdrop or something and try to improve upon it for the matter of sustainability.
But ultimately, like, people want the financial tools to be able to accelerate the trading and accelerate their gains or losses.
But that's what they're going to want.
It's going to show up eventually.
It's interesting, yeah.
I mean, there's a bit of a concept that this is kind of like the predetermined path, you know, towards more and more financialization.
And Blur just kind of sped around us there.
And now, you know, is Tensor going to do the same thing over on Solana?
Meanwhile, Bitcoin is in its, you know, still in its infancy as an NFT ecosystem.
So we don't see that just yet, which, you know, from JFL's perspective is enhancing the experience and, you know, not having farmers, not having the ability to dump into bids, you know, as easily and rapidly enhancing the collectible experience.
And I've seen similar sentiment from other collectors in the space.
And I think that's why folks are kind of starting to, you know, move into Ordinals because it's fun.
I saw people say, like, hey, this has been fun shopping for traits and buying mid-tiers and buying rares and shopping around with this collection without, you know, being exposed to farmers.
I think it's also something that's been a concern of mine for the Solana NFT ecosystem.
I don't think the farming is nearly as prevalent over on Tensor as it is on Blur.
But, I mean, if you read through the chats, I mean, folks know the Blur farming scene is heavily saturated and it's tough to beat the top whales over there.
The game feels a little bit easier to play over on Solana right now.
So for me, it's a little bit harder to, you know, really trust some of the price action in the top collections without really diving into who the buyers are.
And I've been wondering, and I haven't dove into this, so it's just speculation, I've been wondering if Frog Annas have been, you know, heavily farmed, heavily market-made by folks who kind of want some tensor points but may not really care that much about the collection.
So that's something that's been on top of my mind.
Aiken, I want to welcome you to the stage here.
I'm curious for your thoughts on the discussion we've had so far with, you know, Node Monkeys, with the different markets that you've stumped, any and all of it.
Aiken, sorry.
Yeah.
Happy New Year, everyone.
I think one thing I'm keeping my eye on, I think, is an important distinction.
And we've talked about the utility tokens on Solana quite a bit.
But with Blur, right, a lot of the supply side was basically NFT projects that, you know, lots of people were speculating on in the first place that never got to utility, right?
There was never a reason other than the speculative price to hold most of them.
And so Blur was able to just leverage that supply side and essentially, right, extract value for them by basically transferring, right, value from those NFTs into its own token and then now possibly going off to its own layer two to leverage that.
And I think on Solana, right, it's important to make a distinction between, like, a platform like Tensor, which has an NFT undergirding the ecosystem, right, with a promise of getting an airdrop at some point, but also potentially, you know, revenue share over a long period of time.
And so what I'm trying to see is, does that make a difference in that if there's an incentive to hold those tensorians because, right, a lot of those gains in the platform or a good portion of them will trickle down to those NFTs, could they actually retain and capture most of the value within the ecosystem?
Because if they can, then the economics of holding a tensorian becomes interesting over the long term.
And I think that distinction has to be made against other NFTs on Solana, right, that are more like ETH NFTs, which are just purely speculative.
And so, you know, I think it's clearly like the jury's out.
I mean, it's not quite clear yet, but I think as things progress, it will be important to sort of see how, you know, things like MadLads and Tensorians, how they perform relative to the other more speculative tokens on the platform or on Solana.
So that's one thing I'm keeping a really close eye on because I have a sense that in my panel a little differently on Solana for certain NFTs.
Yeah, you raise an interesting point.
I think one, that is another key difference on Solana versus on Ethereum.
If you want to farm tensor, you know, you can simply just buy tensorians and kind of get your share of the airdrop by doing that.
And say from the farming, that's not really an option on ETH where you kind of have to, you're forced to play the game.
And so that probably is a reduction factor, you know, to a degree in the level of farming that happens.
And certainly it's been a huge boom for the tensorians, a collection that's that's pumped, you know, quite a bit.
It's up here 22 percent this morning.
So that's going to be a factor to watch, certainly.
But it's going to be an interesting one.
And it's just it's a much more interesting ecosystem and landscape to monitor than it was four to six months ago.
Things have slowed down on ETH, but we've picked up speed, certainly on Solana and now on Bitcoin.
So collectors are going to have options ahead of them on really where they want to play in the NFT space.
Well, folks, that's about a solid 30 minutes on Node Monkeys.
I want to get to a few other top stories from the day.
Before we do that, let's read the news.
Today's top headlines powered by Lucky Trader.
Trading volume came in at twenty five point eight million dollars on Wednesday, though leaders on ETH were mixed on the day.
Skyboard, Nexion Gyms and Doodles did lead those notable top movers up nine percent and twelve percent respectively.
Digi Daigaku also up twenty four percent to four point four point eight ETH.
As we mentioned, Utes were swept from zero point five seven to zero point seven five ETH and then dumped all the way back down.
All tied to the actions of one farmer and other sweep news.
Go West.
Bitcoin swept 50 doodles for 100 ETH after listening to the results of a poll he raised where he asked his followers, what is a better ROI?
Five Bitcoin or 50 doodles?
And he seemingly followed the results of the poll.
Frogas once again, lead volume on Solana, though they fell twenty six percent on the day to eleven point three.
Meanwhile, Mad Lads have spiked up twenty percent to one eighty tensorians up to one twelve.
We saw Reboot announce ACK, Bastu and Brian Brinkman as cultural collaborators with more expected to be announced in the coming days.
Jack Butcher celebrated Chex one year's one year birthday with a one year of Chex card that users can sign with their crypto wallets while continuing to hit at an ordinal's project to come.
I think some more details came out right before the show here this morning.
And then over on say that pallet exchange, their NFT protocol teased an airdrop for NFT market participants.
So that's going to be one to keep an eye on around Web3 and crypto.
Crypto majors rebounded after yesterday's major dip.
Bitcoin back at forty three thousand two fifty ETH at twenty two thirty.
Sol back at ninety eight forty say did outperform amidst the blood.
It was up sixteen percent on the day at seventy eight cents.
We also saw meme meme coins have a major rebound along with those crypto leaders bonk up seven percent with back up something like forty percent at one hundred and forty million.
And then Binance announced they invested in the meme coin meme from mainland briefly spiking that token from two point three cents to three cents before it settled at two point seven.
And captains also got swept from four to four point two ETH on the day.
So that was a rundown of the headlines.
Ghost, I saw you throw up the heart emoji.
Binance buying the meme token.
How are you feeling?
How comfy are you in this ecosystem right now?
I'm comfy, man.
I'm still holding my my captains.
I'm holding my meme coin.
It's it's easy to get bored and complacent and just like try to pivot to the next hot thing.
And I think that that's what happened with a lot of people with meme land over the summer is like their plans took a little bit longer than people expected.
People got bored.
They moved on to the other thing.
But when you do that, there's like often a chance where you're going to probably lose a lot of your money just by getting chopped up in other things or whatever you pivot to ends up fading out.
You know, and I've had conviction in meme land for a long time.
I still do.
I think that they are moving a little bit slower than like what people expect in Web3.
But eventually, if you just hang on there and chill, some of the things that you have conviction in will will pay off.
And that's that's worked out a lot for me in the past.
So I'm just very comfy in there.
And I have a lot of faith in nine gag and that team.
So I'm I'm holding my bags.
I'm waiting and comfy on what's going on.
Yeah, you raise a good point.
So we're saying she is an artist.
She's also in the underground community.
She's a team member over there and a collector trader.
I think she brought up a good point yesterday that there's just so many opportunities right now.
And basically, no one has the capital to go after all of them.
So this is a time to kind of place your bets where you can, where you've got the knowledge, the intel and conviction.
And you just have to be patient and go.
So I think you're great at this.
I'm a little bit more on the opposite side of the spectrum where I chase this shiny new object.
And I mean, you nailed it.
You just get so chopped up doing this.
So I mean, kind of back to the point, if you believe in the meme token and nine gag and their future plans, you know, don't go off and chase all the shiny new objects on other blockchains because it's going to be a high risk move.
Logie, I'm going to throw you this next question to you.
You are a doodles fan, a bright colors fan.
So we saw a pretty interesting move yesterday with Go West Bitcoin, his triumphant return.
A lot of folks may remember him from 2021, certainly a whale.
He instead of five Bitcoin, he effectively is going 50 doodles.
What are your thoughts on that move?
Do you agree that 50 doodles has a higher ROI op than five Bitcoin?
Oh, man.
Do I agree?
Firstly, doodles is fantastic looking.
I have to continue to stand on that.
And so kudos to Go X for adding such great color to his portfolio yesterday.
Uh, it's just, it's really difficult for me to think in the near term that doodles, you know, can, can outperform, uh, Bitcoin, especially with like looming ETF news.
Right.
Uh, regarding Bitcoin.
So I don't, I don't see any way in which I would have made that, that bet personally.
Um, just not, not the side I would have gone with, despite the fact, uh, that I really, really like doodles.
Uh, disclaimer, do not own an OG doodle, do have some doodles assets, but, um, no, not, not the trade I would have made, Tyler.
Those, I'm going to throw the same question over to you.
Uh, 50 doodles or five Bitcoin.
What, uh, what are you choosing from an ROI standpoint here?
I will, uh, put my sailor hat on and, and take the Bitcoin and hope for this ETF rise and just a huge year for Bitcoin.
Um, and so, yeah, no, no shade to doodles.
Um, I, I like the high conviction that from, from go West and he's had a lot of success in the past, but I will take the Bitcoin personally.
It's an interesting one, right?
So he does have a few outs.
So, uh, one like the, the Bitcoin to E3 ratio is at what, you know, close to 19 to one right now.
So if ETH makes a move and doodles stays flat, you know, he wins from an ROI perspective that way.
And then of course, if doodles rebounds, uh, somewhat significantly and the, the ETH to Bitcoin ratio stays somewhat the same, he can win that way as well.
So he's got a few outs.
I don't think it's quite as simple.
Like when you see it on the surface, you know, five Bitcoin seems stronger and harder to just, uh, you know, immediately convert into 50 doodles.
But I think it's going to be a little bit more, uh, nuance.
So he does have some shots.
It's going to be a fun one to continue to follow me personally.
I probably would have converted the five Bitcoin into, uh, 20 known monkeys, but, but that's just me.
I want to get to our next question here.
Logan, do we have any more details on the, the reboot cultural collaborators, kind of what they may have cooking with those folks, uh, ACK, Bastu and Brian Brinkman, what, what role they might be playing in that ecosystem?
Yeah.
Hey, Tyler.
So of course they announced yesterday, the first of three, as you mentioned, ACK, Bastu and Brian Brinkman, three OG artists from the space.
Um, but basically it, it just indicates that, you know, these people have helped to do hand-drawn character animations.
They've helped to do like in-game goodie type things that you could win in the arcade.
Uh, I don't exactly know if that means NFTs, you know, probably in some way or another, um, or they're just leaning on these folks to help, uh, you know, drive creative direction in some way.
It's not explicitly stated.
Uh, I don't believe that any of the artists came out, uh, and said anything specific about, uh, their engagements with reboot, um, from yesterday.
Uh, so we'll probably still need to get a little bit more detail after they announced the additional collaborators.
They also did not say to be clear how many additional collaborators would be announced, but that more would be announced in the coming days.
Got it.
Well, thank you for the additional info there.
Certainly, uh, the reboot team coming into 2024 with a fast start, they're firing, they're making moves.
Um, they're going to be a fun project team to watch here.
Um, so another story, we didn't actually read this in the news because I didn't have a chance to, to confirm, uh, the, the detail behind this yet.
But Loki, the bird reported this morning that lazy lions, tasty bones, and yay pegs, three NFT collections are apparently up for sale.
He's asking, is this the start of a new meta?
Uh, he thinks it's a clear sign that the competition has finally raised the bar with professionals.
Most of the OG founders can't keep up.
He says he doesn't think he would pay for it unless there's a significant treasury included.
Most of these products have too many inactive users, low engagement, filled with excessive bad sentiment.
And most importantly, no business models or social media channels to leverage besides an X page.
Uh, kind of a brutal, a brutal, uh, takedown there from Loki, but I want to hear, uh, from our panel here.
Do we think NFT project takeovers, are they the new meta?
Do we have many that are worth acquiring Emily?
I actually, I'd love your thoughts on this.
We've talked about takeovers a bit in the past, uh, you know, kind of, what are your thoughts?
Are we going to see more, perhaps any reactions to those three that, that got named?
Yeah.
Um, you know, I think, I think the meta of project takeovers, which kind of already exists,
really illustrates the importance of provenance and the fact that that's not going away.
And I think that there's a lot of teams out there as well that have had their smart contracts
for a while and want to make changes.
Um, and I think they need to take that into consideration.
The fact that the provenance of even a shitty project, uh, is so important that it's willing
to be sold instead of just, um, you know, left to, left to die in obscurity.
And you have major projects considering rewriting their smart contracts, um, which will completely
erase their provenance, uh, in order to gain something new that they didn't necessarily want.
So I think that, I mean, culturally it's telling us something that is very important and that
is the age is one of the most significant factors on here.
Um, and I think, you know, oddly enough, ordinals reflects that as well.
Um, with the, the age of the block, like some people say, you know, rare Satoshis or whatever,
but I think it's still ultimately seems that people are fighting over, Oh, I was here first.
I was the first one to do it.
It's more important because we started first, you know, whatever, whatever little nuance
you want to apply there to try to gain a one up.
Um, but I think that, and that alone is the reason that this provenance, um, this buying
of basically dead projects has gained a lot of, uh, gained a lot of traction, gained a lot
of attention.
We're seeing more of it.
Um, I guess I, I find it kind of baffling at the same time because, you know, it, to me,
it seems a lot more reminiscent of buying dead stock.
Um, like if, uh, a company or a store goes out of business and you walk into their store
and you can buy everything that's left, like their fixtures and things that didn't sell at
an extremely discounted rate and kind of incorporate it into your store.
But these things are a little bit different because the whole thing goes with it.
So it's, it's, it's an interesting one, right?
Especially when you're buying one that never actually turned into a business.
It was just sitting there hoping to trade on hype and make royalties.
I do wonder what people are going to do.
You know, do they really like the art?
Do they really believe that they can turn that into some sort of valuable component of
a larger business?
Um, you know, that kind of remains to be seen.
Um, so I think, I think it's interesting.
Um, but you know, for the record, I always thought it was silly to start a company with
a logo or a brand.
I've never seen that work in my entire life and I've been around small business for a very
long time.
So, you know, I guess that could work, but I think you're going to need a couple of real
visionaries to see a true turnaround.
Well, thank you for all of those thoughts.
I think it was interesting, uh, to, to see you kind of call out the providence as a potential
reason to buy.
And I think that was my next question.
So you kind of answered is, is why, why would someone buy one of these existing projects
versus just going the new route and kind of pointing back to the 2021 era, some value
in those early smart contracts, um, you know, as historical objects, that is certainly an
interesting component of this.
Um, you know, Logan, maybe I'll, I'll throw the same question to you.
Do you have kind of broader reactions to this?
Do you think we're going to see more of that or kind of from your perspective, why, why acquire
versus building new?
I, you know, I think we'll see plenty of it.
Um, we've, we've already seen it happen a handful of times, right?
Guttercat gang just did it.
Of course, Pudgy Penguin's the most notable.
I think many folks will, will lean on the fact that some of these brands were, were once
established and are already establishing it, probably underestimating, honestly, the amount
of work required, uh, to just reestablish these brands.
I was actually reading through, uh, while Emily was talking, um, the, the announcements
from the Lazy Lions team, which I, I must've missed over the holiday.
And there's one yesterday.
Um, the, uh, the founders, I believe, you know, are looking to just kind of wash their
hands and step down completely.
Right.
So you're, if you're coming into, to purchase Lazy Lions in particular, but just any other,
you know, this just, it's literally starting all the way, uh, from zero.
It feels like, and maybe even negative in the case of some of these collections, like,
again, not to put Lazy Lions on the spot, but they have like 13 different sub collections.
It feels like, right.
Like it almost feels like it would be best to just burn all of those NFTs, right.
Which you can't do.
Um, well, maybe you could, but I don't know.
So I think we'll see it in the future to answer your question.
That's a long way to get to it.
Um, I think we'll see it continue because people are taking the chance that they could reestablish
these things that once had this, you know, either great hype or great community.
Um, but I personally think it's quite foolish in most instances.
Uh, one of the other reasons about that, particularly with these early 2021 ETH collections is it
feels like you're kind of boxed in a little bit, right.
When all these other blockchains are blossoming, um, you know, Nigel Eccles came on the show and
talked about the fact that you shouldn't really pigeonhole yourself to a blockchain unless you're
like really, really certain you need it.
Um, I would, I would think future brands, future, uh, potential projects need to really
think long and hard about which blockchain as well.
Um, just given that there are, are other narratives popping up, you know, is it luxury
on Bitcoin?
Is it fast and cheap on Solana?
Is it ETH for provenance or whatever other sake?
So just another reason I think, um, you know, it doesn't make sense to buy despite that.
I do think many others will continue to try to, uh, grab these brands.
Yeah.
It's going to be interesting.
You raised a few good points.
Um, you know, for one, you know, if you're taking over an Ethereum collection that exists,
especially one that already has secondary collections, you know, how are you going to
generate revenue?
You can't do any new NFT sales.
Royalties are, have effectively been slashed to zero, uh, for the most part.
And your, your ability to even get daily volume is, is going to be a pretty critical challenge.
So you're facing a pretty uphill battle.
Um, you're going to have to have some, some real plans.
It would really have to be some IP that you think is just fantastic, uh, that the original
team just really dropped the ball with, uh, and is better than, than you could create,
I would say.
Um, so I haven't spent, you know, a whole lot of time diving into this, but it seems like
launching new, uh, is, is an easier option, you know, for sure.
I think Emily also raised a good point about the, how hard it is to compete in this landscape
right now.
I mean, the, the projects doing well have, you know, entrenched communities or some of
the best founding teams kind of in the space that have kind of, you know, risen above their
peers.
Um, and then if you don't have that, like, yeah, you might mint out, um, over on Solana,
but then it's, it's a pretty quick, you know, track back down to zero, unless you've got some
real staying power or some real substance behind the project.
So the easy 2021 days of minting out, just collecting those royalty fees seem like they
are gone.
Um, so it's going to be an interesting one to watch here.
Um, goes, maybe I'll, I'll tee you up for this one and then we can kind of cap the conversation.
If you were to start a new, to start, if you want to take over an NFT project or start new,
which route are you going?
I'd probably start new at this point.
I think it's really hard to get people to care about the old bags in general, especially projects
that didn't have a lot, a lot of traction in the beginning.
And people are like itching for that new IP and in the start of the next cycle here.
Um, so I think that some of those communities that have been kind of left behind or left
for dead are, are more of a hindrance than a support system probably because they're all
either underwater or just have a, have a bad sentiment towards it.
And you're not really going to be able to, you're going to have to do so much to change
those people's opinions that I'm not sure that they're going to be the cheerleaders that
you really want them to be, um, for like a new change in the project.
So I would definitely go with the new IP personally.
Yeah, that, that makes sense.
You know, we've got about 10 minutes left.
Um, I think the, the other story that's somewhat adjacent to this, we had it yesterday.
We didn't really get into it, uh, is the NFT project teams who are giving their holders
equity.
Um, so we saw two instances of this over the holiday break.
So first ponds from the plague did a surprise announcement for holders.
I believe on Christmas day that they would be gifted equity in that making coffee brand.
Um, he, he did a quick TLDR that this would be legal because it's a gift and not purchased.
I'm going to save the legal discussion for another time.
Um, so he effectively gave equity in his brand to his NFT holders as of a snapshot date.
And then just a few days later, OSF announced that wreck guy holders will be get, will be
getting equity in wrecked brands, uh, which is that the company that controls their smart
contract, the logo, the IP and goodwill along with the company ventures.
That first company venture being wrecked drinks.
Uh, so this was a pretty big curve ball.
I don't know that too many of us were kind of expecting this Logan.
I'll throw this back to you.
Do you think this is a new meta that's going to see, that's going to have some legs and
maybe part two of that question.
Uh, do NFT owners want to be equity owners in these companies and brands?
I do think this is a new meta, um, whether or not it has legs, uh, I'm, I'm less certain
of, uh, and I'm also curious a little bit, uh, it's not explicitly stated in any of those
announcements, but like what level of, uh, detail do the equity shareholders now, if you
want to call them that, um, get into the financials and things like that.
Uh, that, that would be really interesting to know.
Um, I do think it'll happen more frequently.
Do you want to be one?
And I think in many ways, most people do want to write like, uh, in early 2021, I think
it was kind of, you know, not always said out loud, but expected that as a holder, you
kind of were shared, um, in the vision of the project, right?
Your, your incentives were aligned.
You felt like you owned part of the company, even though you really didn't.
Right.
Uh, and we, and we know sometimes that got projects into trouble, uh, but now, uh, you
know, through whatever it called a legal loophole or whatever.
The gifting opportunity actually does provide that level of equity and incentive to holders
to continue to push the brand, um, so yeah, I think we'll see it more often.
Uh, I, I, I'm worried a little bit, Tyler, that other projects will take advantage of
this as a, you know, like a floor booster type thing.
Both of these happen, like they gifted, they were retroactive announcements.
Um, you know, it was kind of to the surprise and delight of holders.
I don't know what, you know, is there in terms of legality, but I'm just like, hopeful we
don't see things that are like, Hey, we're going to gift equity based on a snapshot that
takes place two months from now.
Right.
And then people are buying up as a result.
So we might see some silly stuff like that.
I think the way that both ponds and OSF went about this was, uh, you know, the best possible
way to do it, to really reward those who are active and who have participated, uh, in the
communities thus far.
Yeah.
A few thoughts.
I would, I would say for one, if you were holding a utility NFT project, especially on
ETH right now, um, I think you would probably want to be an equity owner in some capacity.
Now, do you really want equity or do you want tokens?
I think most of the market is in token mania right now.
Um, so that is one aspect of this.
I'm also, you mentioned floor boost.
I'm almost wondering the other way.
So, you know, if I don't own the NFT, what makes me want to buy in now, if the equity
is already in someone's hand and it's not going to transfer with the NFT?
And I don't know the details of this, but I'm assuming that it's not going to transfer.
Um, so that, that is a bit of a drawback for me though.
The plague has moved up, um, since.
So, so clearly it's not stopping that collection.
Emily, your hand popped up.
Then we'll go to Aki.
Yeah, um, I mean, I think equity ownership in this way is not very, I mean, it's, it's
very symbolic, I guess is what it comes down to, but like, you're not going to get a seat
on the board.
You're not going to have a controlling vote in the company.
Um, I think it's just an attempt to be more up and up as a company.
Um, and there's a lot of risk to a token drop, right?
Like there's a lot of risk of that being deemed an unregistered security and you having to
report for that.
Um, there's, there's a lot of, you know, lack of regulatory clarity around that.
So I think it is a way, it's just a different way to achieve the same ends, right?
You can, you can be granted a, a very symbolic ownership share.
That's really not going to have a huge impact on the cap table, but someone gets to go in
and they get to say, I'm a part of this business.
They're actually doing things to generate revenue.
And those things are not, um, you know, operating as the stick man at the casino.
Like, I think that's, I think that's pretty, um, interesting as far as the evolution of
these projects is going, especially the ones, um, that have been smart enough to build a
business behind what they're, what they've actually got as their assets.
Um, because having a loyal community for your business is a pretty important component of
success.
So, you know, I think that there are a few individuals out there who are going to be able
to capitalize on this.
And I think there's a whole bunch more people out there who are going to think they know
how to capitalize this and it's going to flop, but maybe they bought themselves more time.
Yeah, I would agree.
And I think we'll also start to see, you know, somewhat kind of exposing holders who do believe
in the founders business models versus those who are holding perhaps for, for other reasons.
So that's going to be interesting to watch.
Akin, I'd love your thoughts on this matter.
Yeah, I mean, I think I, I, I agree also with Emily, it feels a little bit gimmicky in a
way.
And yeah, there might be real value for rec guys, for example, right?
Because I think this will end up maybe filtering the community.
You know, if you're, if you want to remain anonymous, then you're not going to claim it,
right?
Because there'll probably be quite a bit of disclosure that you would have to provide an
information, um, to claim that equity.
So for me, if, if I wanted to remain anonymous and I saw a pump, I'm, I'm, I'm getting out
now, right?
And if that's the case, right, if it's sort of now sort of crisis divide between those
who would like to be equity holders and who, right, want to do that, you know, it might
essentially bifurcate the community.
Um, I, I don't think a large amount of DGENs necessarily want to be equity holders in that
sense, where you have to disclose all that information.
I think people would rather like be revenue share participants.
Like I want a cut of the flows without all the disclosure that comes with being an equity
holder.
Um, I think most people would rather have, you know, be on that side of the fence.
And I think it's interesting when you sort of juxtapose that again with Solana, where,
right, I think a lot of the platforms are just geofencing all the domiciles that are,
you know, don't have clarity, US, UK, right?
And, and then proceeding with these more like revenue share models where you actually, right,
you actually are sort of like a shareholder, even actually more explicitly, because many
of the protocols are decentralized, right?
They have NFTs, they have these fee models that directly, you know, um, transfer, um, some
of those revenues directly to NFT holders.
And that feels to me more like a, a model that is scalable, um, but I just think that
legacy plays particularly on Ethereum, where you already have VCs as large holders, and
you already have these well-established private entities running them.
This is almost like an attempt to sort of maybe graft people into some symbolic sense
of ownership, um, without really a real strong sense of control, which I think ultimately
you want that agency.
So I think it doesn't solve for, it doesn't solve for the challenge where you have these
multiple stakeholders at different levels with multiple sets of, you know, different
levels of influence, right?
Um, I still think that the, the, the gifted token holders will be far down on that consideration
in terms of influence.
Yeah, you know, I tend to agree.
I think you raise some reasons folks may not be into this model versus others.
I would, I would tend to agree on that taking part in the revenue share, being rewarded faster
via something again, like tokens is what, uh, most DGNs are looking for more than equity.
Um, so this could be a real weed out, uh, device goes.
I'm gonna throw one question to you and then we'll, we'll wrap this conversation up.
You know, I am curious, would this mechanism make holders want to hold their NFTs longer,
perhaps reduce sell pressure?
So Ghost, I think you've got one Utes left.
Let's just take Utes, for example.
If Frank Degods announces today that Degods and Utes holders, uh, get equity, uh, in his
company, how would that impact your decision on continuing to hold a Ute?
Are you turning into a longer term holder?
Would it make you want to move on?
What would be your reactions there?
That's a good question.
Um, I, I think that in most cases it might make me a little more intrigued to, to feel
more, uh, secure holding it.
Um, in the case of Utes and Degods, I'm not sure that we've seen enough from like revenue
streams of what the company is building to feel like the equity would, would make a difference
and not be like a gimmicky thing.
Like we, uh, like just previous people have mentioned there.
So I'm not sure in this case that it would help me too much.
Um, but I think there are realistic cases.
Like I think what we talked about, what you guys talked about with ponds and what they're
building over there.
Like we know that they have some legitimate revenue streams in, in the works there.
And like being an equity holder might actually benefit you.
So for, for NFT projects that actually have that, that utility and potential to become
a real business, I think that, um, that that's a definite, uh, benefit for holders.
Uh, I'm not sure it works for every single NFT under the sun though.
Even ones like, uh, Utes and Degods, which I'm not sure that there's a true like revenue
generator yet.
Yeah, I would agree.
It makes sense if you've got business plans, uh, or it would be a logical step to, to have,
you know, a loyal community of holders as shareholders is not going to be for everyone.
Well, we're going to try to get ponds on the show.
I think we talked about some of the pros and cons from more of a collector standpoint.
Uh, I would love to hear from him directly, kind of what, uh, you know, his mindset, what
his thought process has been, uh, about this critical decision.
So I'm hoping to get him on the show here in the near future, but for today, folks, uh,
that's going to be it.
We're going to go ahead and wrap things up before we go.
What's, uh, what's dropping today?
Uh, give me just a second here.
Um, we've got she, she builder that's 11 a.m.
Eastern Mr.
Shot Neo Poinalism at 12 p.m.
Eastern the black void.
I do not exist at 12 30 p.m.
Eastern and then fluid, uh, over from loopify.
They are doing their beta launch.
I believe this afternoon at 2 p.m.
Eastern is another slower day of new men's here.
Just a few on the list.
Expect most focus to be on secondary markets.
What's got attention and what's pumping ahead of a bigger day of new drops tomorrow.
So we will have more on the list here then, but folks, that's it.
That's our show.
We'll be back tomorrow at 10 a.m.
Eastern.
Thanks to our listeners for tuning in.
Thanks to my co-hosts.
Thanks to Jay Bells and Akeem for coming up to join the conversation.
Everyone enjoy your Thursday.
Let's make it a great day.
We're up all night to get lucky.
We're up all night to the sun.
We're up all night to get sun.
We're up all night for good fun.
We're up all night to get lucky.
We're up all night to get lucky.
We're up all night to get lucky.
We're up all night to get lucky.
