plan because I'm just waiting for a couple of people okay if you go back and say you
requesting yet give me yet one second so guys we'll just get a couple of people in the
room and what I'm gonna do is this I'm gonna get the speakers actually
established but just hold off a minute Jacob because I'm gonna do the
introduction and obviously Finn will cut this out on the recording and so I'm
gonna kind of get the room to build up a little bit get you guys in his speakers
get a co-host which is really important then I'll do the introduction and I'll
bring everybody in Jacob all right so just give me a second buddy and there
hello to brass go and race and everybody else jumping in yeah
so yeah guys we're just waiting for mr. tank a Sasha I do apologize dude you'll
have to wait it's a closed mic tonight buddy right there but we'll try and get
you in at the end there Sasha don't worry about that but we we really yeah we
discussed like going open like toward the end I'm super happy for that yeah
correct so Jake about I really want to get a tank in there so we can have a
co-host so just give us a minute guys to tweet yeah I'm gonna get straight in
there okay I'm excited about today guys by the way really excited yeah
okay brass coat do me a favor hit a tank up in his DMS dude while I send
this out with you a bit gully if you don't mind
okay guys we'll let we'll get the show started actually just in case tank does
have an issue in case we get roughed will bring B bands up as a co-host and
chicken kind of just sit there in the background for a bit and then if tank
comes in or is that fix the rug problem yeah well if you haven't if you
haven't got a co-host and you get ruled and you have to like reset you
know like come out the app and go back in you you're gonna lose your space so
trying to grab a co-host yeah trying to grab a co-host is one of the priorities
for any space here Jacob yeah right thank you we go we can get started now guys
here's a here's your woman bands so B bands the original plan was to have tank
up you are regular co-host darlin so I'll just sit here quietly I'll just sit
here look pretty well no no no and then we'll see what happens I'm just
playing I just yeah well you'll be able to deal with maybe like the nest or any
DMs or any speakers that might want to come up there prematurely you know yes
just catch my attention because I'm also multitasking but I also want to make
sure that everything goes good with your space so brilliant but if tank jumps in
I don't see him if tank jumps in I don't give it just saying thanks for
co-host like definitely appreciate it you know Jacob I'm a fan of you even
though you don't follow me I'm still your fan bro well I'll give you a
follow right now and then then you have a new follower right guys so we don't have
too much editing for Finn I'll get this shown away then right so a good morning
rack FM it's 0800 EST and what does the O stand for oh my god here fucking
raccoon is shouting in my ears guys it's Monday the 6th of their
March 2023 and this is your daily crypto cosmos US severe breakfast short with
your host met of Rockville and obviously your favorite co-host b-band from the
block and we are super excited to do we are going back to our roots where the
rack spaces began 12 months ago with notional Dale I say races in the
audience he was he was with us back in the early days right before we get
stuck in guys I just want to say tonight show is sponsored by terrace spaces dot
org that's terrace spaces dot org obviously they are editing and archiving
all of your favorite Twitter spaces if you want to go over there you'll be able
to find the rack FM landing page which is just terrace spaces dot org forward
slash rack hyphen FM right you'll be able to find all of the back catalog for
rack FM and very soon guys I'm really excited to tell you that we'll have our
own landing page on Spotify so essentially you'll be able to go on
Spotify and rack FM I'll actually have it's like own channel on Spotify which
is huge in my opinion so yeah make sure sorry Jake one second Jake I'm gonna
finish the introduction dude and second so get over the terrace spaces guys if
you can even if you just donate five books right it really does do a lot
it costs a lot to do what Finn actually does hundreds of thousands of hours of
spaces recorded we'd also like to give massive shout out to our origin which
is raccoon supply obviously the NFT a project that does have a casinos where
you can play the slot and the dice on hua hua and Juno and coming to new
chains guys very very soon and releasing a marketplace on hua hua so keep your eye
out on raccoon and finally just to finish up guys the beginning I want to
see a big big big shout out to some of our friends from some other projects who've
been very very supportive of rack FM over the last kind of like seven days
since the funding discussion kind of like went out into the public I'd like
to see a big shout out to stargear zone and bonsie from Sunnyside Reapers for
all of their advice regarding things like governance proposals and multi-seeks
bonsie's been a fantastic mentor to the show so big shout out to that guy we'd
also guys like to see a massive shout out right and this is going to sound
weird yeah we'd like to give a huge shout out to both white wheel slash
megaloo and believe it or not gelato and why I'm saying there these two
particular projects guys and why you might be surprised is that they've
actually reached out to rack FM and declared their interest in wanting to be
able to help fund us produce more shows be able to do giveaways be able to start
live-streaming be able to live stream that into the discord we really have
got major major plans right Finn and I and I'm bead or etc brass core of where
we want to take this show and you know guys we're not going to do it alone we
are going to need some support to hit the heights we want to and yeah gelato
and white wheel which is a big shock to everybody I think we've sat down and
we've had a discussion the both really willing to support raccoon FM and
raccoons are going to support them moving forward so we've got a special
NFT and we're going to donate to the gelato Treasury the vault and gelato
are actually going to donate guys on a residual perpetual basis perpetuity
they're going to donate a portion of their validated rewards to the
production of a really really good sort of rack FM channel a b-band so how much
of a big news is that crazy isn't it darling yeah yes sorry I just give me I
need like five minutes you're cool darling you're cool so without further
ado let's welcome the man of the moment the star of the show one of the biggest
brushest personalities in the cosmos the great the cosmos now regardless what
you think about Hermes air is approach or his tactics we all fucking love uncle
Jacob it's where he started he's one of my greatest friends in blockchain
without a shadow of a doubt being with him since he was less than two key
followers so Jacob how are you doing today sir so you were go-karting right
there's a little bit of crash action too like not not serious how many times how
many times did you crash oh why I didn't crash good man good man yeah that
overstay a dude that oversteer into the corners catches people out all the time
right you've got to be really careful of those little courts yeah dude they
okay I'm from Buffalo New York a little little remote okay yeah I say I'm from
New York people I said New York City but you know I'm kind of from like it's not
rural exactly but let's just say that the the go-kart track here was a much
more advanced thing than we've got around in Buffalo really I'm a pretty
cool way yeah these were more beefy go-karts I must say sorry Jacob I was
just there sending their tank the co-host yeah dude I used to love a lot of air
go-karting my friend's son actually did it professionally and he used to like
race all over the UK and around Europe yeah yeah dude he spent listen to this
right my friend yeah well he was my ex-boss but a good friend he spent 1.2
million pounds right let me say that his kid was like go-kart
you can do that I do well well if you want to go into like like formula 3 and
then formula 2 if you want to work you've got to be go-karting from like
four three four five years old that these kids that get the formula 1 yeah
they've all been go-karting from like really really young single years yeah my
friend spent 1.2 million up until the kid got sponsorship like when he was like 17
turning 18 1.2 million pounds dude that's some that's kind of a loss for
weren't you so what I mean what is what is one of these especially potent
go-karts how's that work out well I was that was including like things like
the trailer and stuff you know and they have like more than one cart you know
they pay for like mechanics to work on them and stuff it's a really the
traveling alone is like unbelievably expensive and unfortunately the kids
their sponsorship money just doesn't come close yeah you've got to be a lot
all the weather the real money is you know but yeah you got sponsorship I
mean he's doing quite well there the minute yeah look who's joined us look
who's joined us hello tank oh hey tank dude how are you doing well look who
decided to show yeah yeah yeah I was late I'm sorry had a sick kid overnight I
don't know what happened with him but he's feeling better now oh dear that's
good that's what matters you know yeah he bounced back last night last night
hit him like a ton of bricks and then he woke up this morning just ready to
hit the floor running so kids man to be young and be able to bounce back
like that was yeah I can't even remember it but that would take me days
to recover from at this age tank you know thank you I did the little intro
and I said in connection with the IBC gang I'm so happy that this is our
first little collaboration and guys I thought long and hard about a co-host and
I asked tank if he would come up simply kind of because it is really good at
kind of like keeping people on track ensuring that like you don't skip
something or you know you get back to the original point I think tanks one of
the best in the business of keeping convos on track so yeah I mean tank if
Jacob's okay shall we yeah shall we get down to it and give the audience
something to listen to yeah absolutely brilliant brilliant right a Jacob well
I would like to start and again Jacob thank you very much very welcome and
start anywhere you'd like to sir I'd like to start with funding and that's
because we're involved in funding at the minute right and I mean I want to say
congratulations a notional just be received a grant for work that they're
gonna do over the next three years Jacob can you just tell us first of all what
kind of difference is this goat like kind of money gonna make to your
business like improving or hiring or equipment wise like just how much of an
impact is this kind of funding to a business like yours well it's quite
substantial now the way that I'm gonna walk you through like how we're going to
manage it right because the 1.4 million it won't be in a liquid form we're putting
in a in a in a vesting account and I know that we spoke to you about doing the
same with yours and to anybody in the audience who's considering making a
funding governance proposal you know I strongly want to recommend vesting it
the reason is that that ensures you know when funds are investing account like
even even if we wanted to rug the whole thing we literally can't okay just it
slowly becomes available over time it's a it's just a straight line so you begin
the vesting and then at the end a hundred percent of it you know will have
become available but basically we're gonna stake it okay and that is going to
allow us to do a lot of additional work without now equipment well the hub has a
weird situation with regard to equipment because I don't think anybody really
really knows where the ICS stuff is going but this funding isn't for that
equipment and frankly equipment isn't really a very big cost for us you know
probably our equipment costs are you know quite similar I either validator but
now in terms of staffing it's it's huge because in fact both internally and
externally you know we frequently face this question of like well you know the
hub does not pay you and why are you working on the hub and so for a long time
our work as as an organization on the hub it's it's been limited to like what I
can do in you know essentially spare time right and through that you know I
still managed to contribute a good deal of code to the cosmos hub and then
also to the different libraries that it consumes so to answer your question man
it's enormous because it eliminates that question there are a lot of people in
cosmos community who have observed to me that the cosmos hub has subsidized other
chains and I must say that at least in the case of notional the situation is
sort of opposite to that that is to say that other chains have subsidized the
cosmos hub and some areas where that has happened are like relaying software dev in
the sense that like we'll make contributions to other pieces of software
and cosmos integrate those into the hub and you know there it there was no
payment for that and the way that we're going to try and organize this I have a
list now of like what we'd like to do for the hub in the first quarter
actually I should say that a lot of this stuff was designed in conjunction with
jihan from informal systems and guys you've noticed maybe you know if you're
not technical I suppose you might not notice the hub repository has improved a
very great deal and I absolutely very happy to give credit to jihan and the
rest of his team at informal I I suspect that what was needed was just like a
really big push and they came out and they did that and around the time the
history of the proposal is like you found this issue that affected quicksilver
we you know reported it before any exploit occurred and unfortunately it
was exploited anyway because you know the hub is a four billion dollar chain
and their consideration as a team was like do we take it down to fix this it
doesn't look like it's likely to occur or you know do we just leave it running
right and the decision was was just leave it going and well around this time
or so that Larry couldn't sleep poor Larry we love Larry so much we want him
to be able to sleep weirdly the thing that made Larry unable to sleep is it's
crazy there was what could have become a really severe problem in Tenderman and
that that like what it manifested as was the hub and stargaze using 30 times the
CPU and I also want to give a shout out to Jorge from stargaze because in fact
Jorge he did so basically Larry could not sleep it he couldn't sleep because
the CPU fan on his validator was going like crazy and Larry told Jorge about
this because he looked at his stargaze validator node and like stargaze using
far more CPU than usual where he investigated this and Jorge found that
it was all coming from one code path that actually handled kind of like an
error or failure situation when you start a Tenderman node it will come up
and request pieces of blocks from other nodes like hey guys I'm I'm trying to get
all the data for the chain can you begin to send me data and it turned out
that if you break that connection midstream that you could you know really
really juice up the CPU and when I saw the patch I contacted Jorge and I was
like dude is there any scenario where this isn't an attack because when I when
I read through your solution to it I mean it looks like it's something that is
being done to the network and he was like yeah you know that's that's kind of what
I suspect that I said like dude do you mind if I like try and get more people
involved in figuring this out because the scenario that I see here it ought to
be impossible and I want to bring the story at full conclusion because a lot of
people helped with this it was a crazy like multi-organizational thing how it
all got addressed so finally well actually it's not finally the middle
step here is that I was working with Sergio from informal systems and Sergio
did amazing work confirming Jorge's findings and I think he added a little
bit of additional patch code now I was basically working alongside Sergio his
specialty is tenderment so he didn't really know how to work on the hall
right and he and I set up basically like a simulator that would allow a diagnosis
to be made on live cosmos hub nodes and indeed like we found it we even found
and all the video of this we found like which nodes were breaking their
connection midstream we created some logging for it and guys the log for this
was insane it would just like fly by your screen so fast and the final piece
of this is it was not an attack at least you know it wasn't an intentional
exploit or anything so Klimans from crypto crew validators I was just
chatting with him about this he was like dude like I have a weird feeling
about this I think it might be observatory zone why would you think
that I even was like dude I mean this just doesn't seem like something they
would do you know they're really really helpful and friendly and stuff you know
some of these addresses are familiar to me all right well I mean contact them
like to so Jacob wait a minute did you just have a curiosity did you I mean did
this this was before the funding proposal you found this right well I'm
about to ask it because you found the books did that accelerate the acceptance
of your proposal did you feel through because of that it did accept it did
accelerate it but I wouldn't say that our proposal even necessarily sailed
through you know it you know it passed and everything but the well the hub is a
spicy place you know and I do I do want to like keep the conversation like a nice
you know so we might have to like just keep I don't know some answers like short
and not after five minutes no no no I'll just say it was observatory zone and we
can now talk about anything else you'd like to well I'm wondering if you didn't
get your funding what was the other option were you gonna have to go and
find other services to provide would you guys have been absolutely fine and
continued on like normal would you rather go and seek private equity what
would you have done if you failed so we're we're pretty busy and what likely
would have happened is we would have just sort of steered away from the hub of it
like likely would have continued to validate and stuff but you know we're
using funding to determine our priorities and so that that's that
that's what I have that's what would have happened and frankly this this
particular bug it affected every single chain and we probably still would have
worked it if we just seen it but you know the thing that Tihan from informal
says you really wanted out of this and I believe we're gonna be able to
really deliver on that is being like really active within the validator
community infrastructure monitoring and then of course combining with code but
code is maybe even the secondary purpose of this a tank just on the air
cuz tanks I you know quite into governance and he talks about it like a
tank just on the atom funding prop or anything like that that Jacobs talked
about you got any comments dude before we talk about something else no actually
don't you cool it's a bit of a fork in the conversation because we do want to
talk a little bit about June on strange love but while we're on fun and I see
yes I want to talk about ICS cause size in the audience as well Jacob let's
let's I mean I don't know none of us really know the full story if you don't
want to talk about that that's up to you but notional received a grant from
June or for work is that correct yeah yeah that's absolutely right okay and and
it's part of that grant and did you hire because we all know race works for
June or now yeah did notional like higher race to work for them yeah all
right I think the community you've got a bit of a surprise I think when race
moved to June or cuz I don't know how exactly how long he was at notional but
it seemed to be like a bit of a short time when we all thought was gonna be like
you know suspended all of its grants like suspended their payment until they
could be paid out using the Juno it's the what is it vesting the Dow Dow
vesting contract okay and I do regret I mean basically it would not have been
financially liable to retain him and I'm very glad that Reese is now with you know
Reese does fucking banging work and like I also if we look at what happened with
Juno's price and guys I do think that there was a bit of a failure in terms of
the use of the community pool okay we funded Luke we funded a bunch of stuff
with the terror recovery fund and I think that what we actually did is we
kind of like cut our legs out from under ourselves and you know what makes this
rougher is that notional is not really gonna be in the practice of selling like
the whole lot of grants that we receive it's not the purpose of them at least
not for us the purpose of these grants is to you know it's well we're gonna
state them this is going to increase our power this is going to show our alignment
with the network and I mean ultimately just selling the whole brand it it it's
harmful in my opinion did you did you get nothing from June or did you get
like the first payment and then the first quarter or okay it's fair to say
that it's it's a no frequently at this point and certainly like hasn't been
to be said very least but I I understand the other side of this really
really well okay what I'm trying to say is on a bunch of levels it's the right
choice on June's side to be vesting grants like this I mean that's what
notional would do with the grant anyhow maybe go and look at you know the
transaction history on that thing it you know came to us sales you know from that
word pay with quite literally Reese and you know that's that's how we approached
it and a bunch of other grants around that time true we're gonna we're gonna
talk about them in a minute aren't we right we've got it we've got an elephant
in the room for a dress right yeah what do you think about a Reese's work
though it's like one of the June only devs I mean he seems to be smashing the
year the functionality and stuff that's coming out at the minute dude it's he he
seems to be well my view on Reese's work is extremely positive yeah dude he
seems to be like literally like like this there's not that many like what I
would call super star devs but he's definitely in that category you know you
mentioned community pool earlier Jacob at Jake Horton was on a call the day right
a food call saying he fucking hates the community pool and he wishes he could
just burn it right do you think and I mean he was basically saying they
shouldn't have community pools do you do you agree with that or not
well okay let's is it is it an oxymoron the answer is yes okay other situations
the answer is no so the consoles SDK is very flexible man and one of the really
great things about it is you can build your chain the way that you want to so
so like basically if a dev group wants to not have a community pool I'm actually
okay with this that's their choice and the software lets them make that choice
and if they do I'm also okay with that too yeah that's what I think it should
be a dev phone shouldn't it I mean there's people that are saying that the
words community pool is an oxymoron because the community sees fuck all of
it you know it's like basically insiders and devs kind of thing if any
community put a proposal up like tank they get shot down so like for a lot of
the community we're looking we think community pool bullshit I might as well
be called a dev phone dry I think tank I'll agree with that to an extent anyway
I think that's a fair characterization actually and there are a bunch of
questions about how to best do governance and I think that personally I'm
good with the community pools as they are now but I also have to say that core
one is a good deal more efficient than the community pool now it doesn't mean
every choice never made it perfect okay but they're able to action much faster
and there's not the crazy lobbying period which guys is really hard and
that's definitely not software network you know and that's not great right I
don't want people to not have to do code because they're looking to get funded
and by the way the hub was sort of pretty unique situation in that like for
example on another chain I wouldn't ask for years with funding but then on the
hub because the hubs team has changed so much over time and you know Zuckey
has commented like really the community pool probably shouldn't be where we fund
software development work from and I think I'm basically aligned there however
then there's the question of like being democratic so instead right and maybe
that's the advantage of having the straight community pool where every token
holder votes in the same manner
thank you you got any comments on their community pools dude I should not thank
this you know he might be chucking somebody out right now anywhere
probably is a little kid might be a little bit sick there yeah right Jacob
funding at June or let's talk I mean I don't know you think that maybe some of
the community might have some wrong ideas about certain people and I believe
Strangelove also got a grant for work at the same time is that correct yeah
yeah and you know what for a long time I didn't realize that they were
actioning on it so guys that there's real serious issues with the ICF
because I also said Strangelove has a grant from the ICF for similar work okay
so they got one from June at the same time didn't they though yeah you both
I don't know if it was the same time I don't you know I don't know any details
about anything with the ICF really okay but what I have to say is that over the
past it might be three weeks now I've had the opportunity to go through what
they've put together in really deep detail because two like clients of
notionals wanted us to do work with that stack and I okay first week I found
ICQ and I noticed that Strangelove had like they had prepared this ICQ module
perfectly including documentation and such to fit into the main IBCGo
repository and it was again perfect and they had one of those so that's the first
item the next item is their packet for middleware and again like basically
they're maintaining that separately for my IBCGo but it's versioned the same way
as IBCGo finally though there's Strangelove's work on late clients and
I've got to say that you know composable has been jamming on that as well and
this it's called a wasm client and to kind of make a long story short on the
thing this is the piece of software that is going to bring together Cosmos
and Polkadot and Kusama and whatever crazy stuff they have over in the
Polkadot ecosystem which I mean honestly man I don't know too very much
about but I've been having conversations with people over there too that's been
cool so basically like they've completed this what I consider to be
pretty major extension of IBC. Hell I'll go further okay major and important and
then I learned both from like the external clients social working with and
from Strangelove themselves that like they're having a lot of trouble getting
this work into the repository into the like main IBCGo and the problem with
this is that that makes it much harder let's say a couple times more time
consuming to maintain these libraries also forces a programmer to be just doing
a lot of every user of these libraries has to do more work because they're not
in the main IBC repository and to me that's just it's it's it's really not
acceptable also historically you know one of the things notional is done for
Juno it's you know very clearly specified in our contract we update
WASM D we make sure that if and when Juno wants to Juno is able to upgrade to
like the latest SDK the latest well essentially literally the latest
okay and getting SDK 46 into the IBC repository it was very hard and it you
know what man it just it should not have been hard because at the time SDK 46
it wasn't complete so one the software development was hard and and that you
know it should be hard because we were working with essentially like half
finished code so that difficulty is fine but the difficulty of getting it
included and getting it visible should never have existed and so then very
recently I learned that strange love is facing the same set of issues and when
I learned of this the first thing I actually said to Jack was dude I'm sorry
man I didn't know where the code was because it's not in you know the main
repository and he was like yeah I know I you know they keep pushing us out of it
and this seemed you know ICF is it I'm not pleased okay and maybe this is even
more serious than the other stuff I've talked of with them because it's
genuinely slowing progress in cosmos a little tidbit from Jack hey if I had had
a supportive IBC team I think that client could have entered production six
months or more ago and that I prompted that actually with a question because I
asked like dude the way that this looks to me is that like you actually could
have like dramatically reduced the ship time for this feature if you could
just work in the IBC repository where the code is you know supposed to end up
anyway he was like yes and there there are a bunch of reasons for that they're
fairly technical but that's that's what's led to for me I mean kind of
let's call it a micro crusade right to make the key repositories and cosmos more
pluralistic and what I realized today actually was that I hadn't taken it
quite far enough in the proposal that's that's currently on the cosmo sub forum
and was written by our gov lead let and myself the thing I didn't take far enough
is that it shouldn't just I'm totally down with strange love as a maintainer
coordinator and guys what that basically means is that at no time did I propose
that strange love should like take over the core maintenance role and in fact a
little also tell people that I've taken quickly very quickly can I just write if
strange love left the eco tomorrow the entire IBC ecosystem right cuz I know
they're in a few projects would we suffer or will we just carry on like
normal like are they a critical infrastructure or not the workload they
should be here's what I mean so and they're being funded to make critical
infrastructure and they're making critical infrastructure and that critical
infrastructure is not being put in the core software libraries and robo I am
gonna go ahead and say that a strange love just you know checked out tomorrow
okay our present state would be fine right but this isn't about the present
state this is about the future state and you know if we're looking at the
future state of things yeah I believe that we would be very severely impacted
the work of theirs that I discovered over the past couple of weeks I mean one
it's a very high quality and two it's really hard it's challenging and you know
there's how shall I put this writing software is not it this isn't commodity
work what I mean is that what you're always chasing at is like getting to the
end goal but the path between where you are today and that end goal it can
vary wildly from person to person an organization organization so it's like
maybe we could find somebody who did that but they did it you know and I I
think that's very praiseworthy and then I'm concerned about how actually I sort
of expanded scope today I'm concerned about how comet IBC and the SDK are
being run because you know I thought about it there's like a hundred major at
Cosmos SDK forks many others are inactive but like a ton of chains that
forked the SDK for their purposes and so that it kind of hit me anybody who is
let's say by the judgment of I don't know who exactly but I'm sure that we
could find a group of people who could judge this seriously building right
they're they're using the SDK they're developing whatever they should have
what's called right access to the SDK repository this is the same thing for
IBC and this is the same thing for common and the reason is that for a
programmer's perspective it's dramatically more efficient to have
people you know having right access to the repository we could really like have a
policy we're like I don't know every six months we review who has right access
but there are today hundreds of Cosmos developers the one one problem we
definitely have is that we're fragmented we're fragmented by chain we're
fragmented by organization and we're fragmented by which piece of the stack
we work on but if anybody writing a chain was free to push code to the main SDK
or IBC repository this would encourage way more collaboration and it would show
much more clearly than is possible today who's doing what and I think that it
would also improve sort of like the design process for future releases and
such lovely Jacob a I'm hoping there's a few day I was coming in I'm hoping we're
gonna be able to get a little bit of time to to get some people up and
awesome questions right my game no we've got we've got your tank we've got you
okay I can hear you did Robo just speak though yeah we'll get you straight back
tank don't worry a I mean bands you got any comments before we move on like the
next topic or not are you okay oh no I'm fine a extremely intelligent and so some
of the things I'm not you know 100% comprehend but there are people here who
do so I'm just gonna sit tight that's why you're the best best co-host in the
business darlin hey well it's not even a corner you're up as horse I want to
ask a jacob row tanks back you okay tank yeah I think so I can hear
everybody now brilliant I don't know if you had any further questions a tank
before we start talking about Genesis said delegation yeah but I don't know if
it's appropriate now or probably it's gonna be something to segue into it do
it do it yeah like I so basically what I'm understanding or at least what I feel
like and correct me if I'm wrong or at least give me your input on Jacob do
you feel that the the cosmos hub or the cosmos ecosystem as our phrases do you
feel that we've put ourselves in do you feel like we've practiced poor business
practices throughout all of these entities where there's strange love I don't want
to say notion but like you know notional yourself including like everybody
included right like we're seeing it can can all of these entities sustain
themselves without continuing to ask for community funding going forward and has
with that it's kind of an expanded question with that do you think we're so
separated and fragmented and so divided in a way I'm air quoting divided in such
that it's it's it's unfixable just because of the way that you know the
hub has developed itself or the cosmos has developed itself going forward like
like let's just say like you know the funding for like I don't know I kind of
got lost to be honest with you Jacob with the first original question like what
is this funding mean to you what does this mean for notion is it is it gonna
allow you to expect like from what I understood you saying throughout all of
that was it's going to allow you to hopefully hire on and and keep eyes
more on what's happening with the hub right let's say that if that funding
like what your funding runs out in this worst-case scenario like who else is
going to be able to step up and watch the hub who else is going to be able to
maintain it and is it always going to be meeting more community funds like yeah
I know what you mean tank I know exactly what you mean get Jacob we've been
talking about this for a long time right it seems that a lot of these
businesses are not sustainable unless they get funding I think that's what
tanks getting up yeah like strange yeah like strange love notional like you
already said like oh if we didn't get it we were gonna pivot away and not like
leave the cosmo cell but we'd pivot away and then like then we'd be as an
atom holder like we'd be just stuck with their dick in our hands like going
what's who's gonna be the white knight now and like we see it with
comfy oh we said like all these like is it always going to be a community
asking like what's going to change that going forward and do you think that the
that you know the minimalist discussion versus like the expansion of the hub and
being more functional and actually bringing the atom token of value
discussion finally do you think that we've in a sense spread ourselves too
thin with with what we're trying to reach for with the atom token and what
the hub does and and now by doing so you know we've we've unfortunately been
now dependent on these businesses who unfortunately have not had good business
practices who are now dependent on the hub to give them funding or the
community to give their funding because the ICF isn't doing it like what
happens to three years from now what happens when like say XYB doesn't happen
for the hub do you like you're gonna get what I'm asking yeah I totally do
tankers will be talking about this for a long time right one second you wake up
tomorrow and right across the ecosystem there's no grants there's no funding
there's nothing in the future moving forward how are you going to sustain your
business what are you guys going to do because a lot of people the same it
doesn't look like these business models are like sustainable without grants well
yeah well even like you know knock on wood definitely never want this to
happen but like let's say worst-case scenario right like let's say the leader
of each one of these groups which they can run without you guys but let's sit
Jacob unfortunately tomorrow you wake up plane hits you crashes on you same
thing with Jake same thing with their restraints like like what happens what
happens to the atom hub after even Larry what happens both you know sinks
plane crashes stuff like that like what happens what happens is and and this
could well be you know the community pool is so important things are moved
about now let me tell you what it what happens with notional though because in
the event of my death things just keep going we've actually that we do have a
succession plan in place no no it was very important we're making you know for
the hump we made a three-year long commitment yes a plane could hit me you
have a heart attack I could be walking down the street and I don't think it
step on my head you know you're like you know life's got its entropy to it so we
have a succession plan in place but I think you're asking about something
that's even more broad than a succession plan and I want to give you what I
consider to be the correct answer okay so recently you have seen notice the
way that I said this you have seen significant community pool funding well
when it comes to that cosmos hub that's the first time in two years anybody's
seen anything and notional is sustainable give you an example okay
suppose that we did not get the funding from the hub notional would be
all right does it help yes does it help us help the hub hell yes is it make or
break no and you know how do I put this we're we're we are frugal and you
know that is in my opinion really important yes
lost man founders you know whatever you want to call it you know I'm very
cognizant of the fact that the business must be profitable but anytime it's not
profitable that's you know that's a problem and it would be my fault mind
you so that's sort of the first case of that but you notice how I said you have
seen funding occur well I want to tell everybody I think that's really good
because well then there's the ICF I don't know shit but I do know they have a 40
million dollar annual budget and then I don't feel good about it guys there have
been so many issues over time with I guess like how the ICF is run and how
they comport themselves and you know one time when I was basically making noise
about hey the ICF is quite openly delegating to really some of the worst
validators around and by the way let's you know let's define worst as like they
get slashed they don't vote you know stuff like that practical items right I
was told to let the professionals handle it you know it's not any public forum
that's that's not good or nice even and the other problem is okay suppose that
there were professionals and that they were handling it in fact it will be funny
but even by that early point I already knew that well and they were handling
it that conversation would not even happen you know we wouldn't have been
having that conversation because it wouldn't have been necessary and so I
guess now we get closer to where we are today and where we are today is
in my opinion the lobbying process associated with you know community pool
funding it's it's it's it's awful it was it's very unpleasant I don't enjoy it and
it's also not a really good use of time for developers but it's the ICF's job to
make sure that you know funding is available and exists and guys I gotta tell you they're
not doing it okay so this actually is another thing that makes the community pool look kind
of important you know the ICF has various capacities that you know they're like not
taking grant applications and all we're gonna reform stuff and fix stuff and
we're gonna have this technical advisory board and I I'm I'm not seeing change of
any type in fact I when it comes to their delegations I'm quite concerned
that they're not making any delegations at all and you know the problem with
that guys the folks who just rugged consensus at AI be there Adam stack is
growing their influence over the hub is growing and it's it's bad to rug a major
software component of such the chains everybody has everyone has to refactor
their chain in some way shape or form okay so I'm glad that you guys have
succession plan and I like so again to kind of go back though but do you feel
like the Adam the Cosmos hub now is in a position trying to be something or
grow into something that is now dependent on businesses or teams that are
unsustainable or have poor business practices no I believe that strange love
is sustainable thank you want me to be really frank with you okay I have
concerns about Confield and I I'll even I'll walk you through my how I chose my
vote okay and by the way I don't know strange love books okay but I believe
that strange love will be fine okay but when it comes to okay they stopped
working all together on you know one of Cosmos is absolute most important
libraries and they did this for the purpose of raising funding and it was
kind of like a strike right but but here's the thing the chains were in play live
hot running okay during that time at notional we continued to work you know
that's actually one of the really good parts about having like long-term
funding for example from Juno and we are not really into business risk and I know
you're you know fairly sophisticated when it comes to both business and
investing and I think you're probably painfully aware that you know you you
have to design things in a risk-averse way if you don't that that can really
mess things up and then in this case right that could spread out to the
ecosystem and I voted yes for Confield's funding because at this time I
don't know of anybody who can replace their work and well Jacob can I can I
just highlight something a close to us to us in the community it seems like we
don't know who's there running Confield is it eighth and three or is it all of a
twist cuz I mean your man seems to be all over with his fucking begging ball now
there's a few I mean he did the original work on Cozum was him and stuff right
and we can all remember when Juno was all-time high and in him and someone
else you know came out in the public with her begging balls but yeah I
didn't even realize they had got like a ridiculous like size like osmosis grant
and they did fuck off for it is that is that corrected did Confield get like a
huge osmosis grant and then like deliver nothing well let me make really clear I
don't believe that they did you know you just said they did fuck off for it I
don't think that's the case well but they didn't deliver what there was
supposed to I mean what they delivered for what question about this okay I'm
confused now okay as far as I'm aware everybody at Osmo is satisfied with
their work and but but you seem to you seem to have a specific thing you'd
like to mention is that right no well there's a few things I mean there's
obviously the situation with Juno swap and wind I asked null to his face I said
look you know is is this a golden handshake for the for the work on
Cozum was in my relation to June when he was like yeah but then I found out he
also got like the hack hack was a mere grant awarded as well I mean the any way
you look where there's people like asking for money Ethan phrase there you
know well I I'm concerned about business sustainability there okay and I know you
might not want to say it too much like well I mean I've said this Ethan's face
okay and I've had long conversations about it and um look I bet on okay I take I
vote's pretty seriously and you know I I made literally a bet on confino and I
really do hope it works out because what I don't want to see again is I don't
want to see like this guys for the perspective of somebody working in the
ecosystem what they did was quite jarring and quite disruptive and they just like
stopped working on was some D and a couple of other things that they consider
to be public but aren't they right that is completely they're right but aren't
there are lots of other teams or working on may cause a Muslim or Muslim
de-accent or a thought and wasn't John a lot of other does like confused not the
only people that are working on cosmo as I'm surely fucking open source right
well okay it comes along here from me and by the way this this informed my
voting and in my decision-making process and the whole thing okay well quickly
quickly here's a question for you then if Ethan same as Jack if he's in Freya
left the equal completely tomorrow would we keep going on the way we are
or would wasn't so far we want what some would suffer yeah it would and you know
what dude that's actually that's why I voted yes I you know I rolled the whole
thing around in my head you know right well let's take this another let's
take this another angle how many people on their team 25 26 right yeah yeah
I've got a lot of like admin people like dude it's a very different team
composition for when we have a notional like even when it comes to like billing
and client interaction we engineers actually do that here
and you know what let me let me take a second row well bro they've got they've
got a lot of blood or confield could go down to 15 people easily I don't know
their situation but you know what I do want to say I want to thank notional's
customers right now we have you know we have we've got the hub with the
governance range you know with the core one arrangement but guys our private
cash customers and it's enormous I'm very important that we you know are able to
do that and I also want to say that this is why we were able to build out a
software engineering practice and I want to express gratitude to all of them and
all the agreements are different I'm not gonna name them you're welcome you're
welcome hey Jacob I'll tell you what I did want to get through like as many
topics today and you've been a great guest so far right dude I'm getting a lot
of questions about a Genesis delegations right and a lot of people like don't
understand them properly a lot of people are like these are just like fucking
handouts that's a it's a it's you know the boys club it's the same people like
getting the same foundation delegations time and time again except row Genesis
delegate delegations right Jacob have you recently started validating on a
cup like any other new chain so we've just had Mars Protocol we've just had
Quicksilver are you on either of those at the minute yeah I think you're
on Quicksilver are you right what about Mars are you on Mars as well yeah and we
are Mars Mars Mars yes absolutely you did you receive a delegation to start your
north did you oh yeah absolutely okay one second Jacob let's get some yes or
no yep our Genesis delegations like these foundation delegations or whatever
are they like critical because without them you're not going to attract like your
first lot of validators you do your Genesis ones and then you're going to
get other validators to build up your set is that how that works or is that
right yeah to some degree yes but actually I mean no shows in a kind of
different position from the majority of validators I would say with regard to
these because when we receive those it's typically because we've worked on
the chain without like to often begin work without a contract okay making
contracts takes time and working fluently on an open source blockchain
you can just do it right and then we'll end up getting either a delegation in
Genesis or even like a piece of Genesis and frankly that is efficient as hell we
love to work like that now with other validators I think that sometimes these
things are questionable but also a practice that we promote like among our
clients is being really selective about the initial validator set and mapping
validators to value okay okay I just remember like some of the things that
like Rama was telling me you know about the yeah I mean it's it's basically like
free money for validators isn't it I mean you're providing a service obviously
so it's not essentially free money but it is disagree with you fairly strongly
when it's done well when it's done well it is absolutely not free money right
because how do these chains make the decision of who they give these
delegations to do is it like all inside is it voted on like that kind of be
voted on by governance candidate if they're not going to even running but
like how the fuck are these like distributed fairly where it's not like
constantly centralized that is entirely up to the team it's entirely up to the
people building the chain and also I mean you know I was saying before it
being calm like oh well you know the SDK lets you do anything and dude I
think that the fact that the SDK lets you do anything has been so critical to
cause was his success so one part of this though I mean it's worthy of
mention here okay the SDK lets you do anything including stupid things and you
know so we just have to basically trust that and by the way don't trust check
okay I'm not actually I'm not actually encouraging that you go around do you
trust random chain teams and by the way of anybody in the audience there is a
question about like some genes Genesis state I'm more than happy to look at
the Genesis file for you okay I'm just wondering I didn't call something like
say like Mars for example right who were originally over on Torah I didn't go
maybe like they had brought like say like you know a section of their like
validators from Torah over onto there like the greater IB because we always
think of Torah as being like separate to the rest of like the wider IBC right
there's like IBC Torah is part of it but we always regard to it to be one side
so I was thinking well did Mars just like bring all of their like validators over
from terror and just ignore like the regular hardcore IBC lot or I just
wondered how that worked now do you I'm sure they're gonna ignore Jacob do you
apply for a foundation delegation do you do you I think Rama told me that you
have to apply what I mean is that like okay you know what actually there are
some way to be in Genesis some of them will want you to KYC and that sucks and
I hate it we do it but it's it's not a practice that I approve of especially
because like some of our colleagues in the validation space most certainly work
anonymously and you know what I respect the hell out of them for it I want them
to be able to continue to do that and do you do you have somebody do you
have somebody at notional that directly on behalf of you guys do you have
somebody that directly contacts these new teams to say we'd love to validate for
you can we talk can we receive it I mean do you have to go like or did they
approach you direct or have you got somebody usually the second one you
know I guess that's you know we've done pretty well and our brand is pretty
strong and usually when there's some hot new chain someone on their team will
approach us and when we do do outreach that's usually through lit a doubly okay
okay I mean I'm going back along I'm going back a long while did did Rama
used to contact their new chains on behalf of you guys to ask about this
city back in the day early days yeah before lipid you know okay quick so they
are no not quick so well I don't know why you would think that but you know I
know I can only go off what people tell me I can only go very well I've had
contact with quicksilver but I would say like no basically no but he did get
inbound interest from oh I do it jay bonnet is is involved in this chain I
forget you know the chain has a name and sorry again from me because I
don't recall the name of the chick more importantly jacob more importantly though
are there any bad practices that you think of or even as far as malfeasance
with these Genesis like delegation the foundation delegations are there any
practices that you're aware of where you've like shook your head a little bit
oh yeah so there's bad practices for sure I mean one of them is you know
the team can just run a bunch of notes we'll just roll like I said my boy like
I said man all right running five five foundation delegation notes yeah
unfortunately I suspect but I don't know okay that that practice may be a bit
more pervasive than is visible because remember when you start a validator you
can give it and you want to whatsoever okay Jacob are there are there any kind
of backroom discussions or backroom agreements you know gentlemen's
handshakes or whatever right where like if you're a validator and you've
received like the foundation delegation or something like you'll be expected to
support kind of governance that are coming out from there the main core devs
of the team I've heard I've heard a couple of stories and someone sent me
some examples right I don't want to talk about the validator but they've got
like they've got a delegation and kind of like saying you know vote alongside
like kind of the team all the time right I mean are there any backroom deals
like you know you'll get the delegation you support us in their
governance or a lot I haven't seen one I've never seen but I will say that our
default state okay no show is generally gonna vote with the chain team the only
time we're not going to do that is is when it seems fucked up you know if
something seems dirty or we're not gonna go near it we will vote no if we feel
like you know how we have that whole thing about like you know do not harm
users well we feel that our governance proposal is gonna do harm to users or
it's a software upgrade proposal and there's a bug we will absolutely
disagree with changing and then by the way without hesitation but I think that
the blunt answer to your question is no actually good I'm pleased to hear that
that's exactly the answer I wanted to hear you know hey right I mean look Jake
about I'll tell you what we'll let you pick the next topic because I do want
to get your opinion on ICS right so do you want to talk Juno or do you want to
talk ICS first do we go ICS yeah it's your show let's do ICS first let's do
it well we've got 20 minutes sorry but we've got 40 minutes left before b-band
starts I do want to remind everybody guys Jacob obviously from national the
validate across many chains if you do have some spare coins or you're thinking
about redelegating a national you know they never have any slashing never have
any issues with uptime etc definitely think about them and please remember
guys today's show sponsored by Turner spaces org who were busy obviously
editing and archiving all of your rights with the spaces guys and you can find
the rack London page over at Turner spaces org forward slash rack hyphen
FM right you'll be able to find all the shows over there so I just want to
remind everyone right Jacob one-word answer from you to start the
conversation a for the win ICS or mesh for the win one-word answer ICS much
Alliance I already I've already posted my thought on the win condition and
honestly the win condition is chains where those three things are brought
together use them for different purposes boy I want I want I want to like I
want to like really I want to hammer this home okay so suppose that you know
a year from now we have a network of ICS chains going well I poked through
Alliance hi Jared I can see it bringing benefit in a lot of different places and
questions about like this last thing model but I have questions about each of
these okay now mesh meshes downside is really the cosmo awesome requirement but
I think that's fine like cosmo awesome has it's evolved a great deal and so
you can totally bind cosmo awesome to dangerous stuff now and just to give you
an example about dangerous stuff right slashing is dangerous guys and and mesh
mesh'll slasher and mesh'll slash you hard even so that that's kind of like
my my concern with it is like what if those pieces were to ever fail or
malfunction but if we map each of these to economic flows and by the way Rowan
this is why I refused to give you one of the three and I put all of the three
into the same word if we met the economic flows well what what is a
chain one a chain wants to be able to access all the economic flows in all of
the security models and well today's ICS it doesn't exactly expose you to new
economic flows it's more like a scaling tool or a safety tool but the future ICS
is is supposed to you know allow for let's say more complex constructions
and I really must say that I believe that the largest economic growth is gonna be
on chains that use a combination of those security mechanisms strong feeling
there by the way my one-word answer is all and strongly what's the general
sentiment like Jacob oh that's something that's a really freaking good question
okay mesh I feel like the general sentiment is we need more information
ICS I feel like the general sentiment is that there are questions about scalability
and the cost of operations for validators and by the way I I would be
among those people at dance asking that question with Alliance I I end up with
questions about recursion and stuff and rehypothecation and okay here's a
here's a really great example with Alliance it's possible to like have a
liquid staking token on chain a and then steak chain a's liquid staking token to
chain a now I should say Alliance like I would have rejected it violently if it
didn't have safety mechanisms on this stuff and it does okay so you're
actually like you're setting like what percentage of the flow is assigned to
you know this particular staked asset and one of the really interesting things
about Alliance to me is that you're gonna get you should end up on some
chains actually receiving like dozens or hundreds of types of tokens for staking
now whether this I'm very curious to see how it plays out over time and I have
some security questions but I think that from a UX perspective Alliance will feel
kind of magical so yeah that's I think that those are the the ups and downs of
each thank you very much Jacob and guys you know something what we're gonna do
in a moment is we're gonna try and see if we can maybe get some audience
members because it's like some giga chat yeah I'm gonna read briefly kind of
talk to Jacob about two things before we bring in questions and I'm hoping
Jacob that I can ask you this question because I believe that were friends
first and foremost right and I believe we're both professionals and it's
something that I kind of like I've heard you kind of talk about a little bit but
I wanted to ask you like my question right yeah please
if we go back and if we look at it like if we look at a couple of things like
I'll give you two examples say like a jackal and kudjira right hey I want to
know if I mean you did great work we all know you highlighted issues to the
community very important do you have any regrets about how things worked out with
us and moving forward like have you made it up in your mind that right I'm
gonna do things different in future yeah actually yes thank you for the
question dude I appreciate the hell out of it okay so with jackal that was
insanely well you were correct you were correct with jackal you were really
correct you're right and I think it's the approach Jacob I think it's the
approach on Twitter the paper like a bit like well okay okay here's why it was a
super hard judgment call there was like actual risk to validators block signing
keys and probably what like what I should have done in the jackal case is a couple
more hours that's it okay like it didn't there was a ticking time it was very
bad and however if I don't waited for morning EST alright keep in mind we're
you know global industry when this was happening I didn't know that the
faculty was located Eastern Standard Time United States and if I don't waited for
them to wake up I think that you know things could have improved now with
kujira what would I modify buddy kujira is rough because there was really
persistent denialism I feel that there's still really persistent denialism did I
get to you is that is that what drove your reaction do you think the fact
there was a lot of like denial from them oh yeah yeah yeah oh no definitely and
I mean the thing is with kujira it also could have just multiplied over time I
don't know if you're aware of this but like far back as summer of 22 I was
talking to the kujira team about security implications of you know having
a closed source code base in DeFi and I think those are they're really serious
security implications I also think that suppose that their code is perfect and
they have no security problems well even then what they're likely to do is
actually be limiting the economic growth of kujira and that sucks like I'm
painfully aware that investors hire folks like myself to check through chains
before purchasing a whole bunch of coin okay and I'm telling everybody like that
is something I do and so if I'm advocating like for the kujira
community for example right I would say that if you want the project to spread
and grow and be successful you need for that project to be able to pass like
technical diligence and at present nobody can do that and I think of my
regret on kujira I'll be quite honest with you man is the amount of time that
I invested I don't think that yeah it wasn't worth the amount of time I put
into it and if you right okay this is going to be something I think that's so
relevant at this right point right now okay you don't validate on kujira
correct you're not one of the 75 right yeah that's right yeah but you you do
and now I asked you I did I want to preface this for everybody guys I've
asked Jacob this in a unrecorded spaces but I want to get this on to you right
Jacob you guys you validate for injective protocol injective protocol a closed
source however you've checked the code out right for a rare for injective now
that's correct yeah the question is did you have to sign some like
confidentiality agreement or is there some legal agreement you want to like
because if they're closed source and they said yeah I mean you could go and
pick up let me just tell you I signed nothing I have a complication with one
of their team members you know you won't look at it I mean that's cool like you
do a lot of good work and when I looked at it and I also will say that they're
kind of overdue on the code release I'll put it that way and I really want
to see that code can you can you see the issue that the community is gonna have
with this because we all know like verify don't trust but at this point if you sit
there us about the injective code we have we haven't a trust your word and none
of us can verify anything so you know how to weed situation for us to be in
because on one hand we're looking at this and on the other hand we're like well
what the fuck's going on here there isn't like parity between you're
completely correct okay and in fact let me take it a step further as myself I I
don't like it because you know I'll just tell everybody like you know sweet we
don't really like do software dev for injective I think I have had like a
couple of pull requests merged or whatever I guess my point is that like
certainly I haven't fully audited the code base right that takes a lot of time
and I mean I can tell you my impressions as a you know professional software or
whatever and those are my impressions I was actually very impressed bunch of
stuff and I really I hope they open source it because if there is an issue
the robot check this out I do see the issue that you have is you know as a
community member with the let's say like one-sided disclosure right I totally see it
and I agree with you fully additionally as somebody who has had you know access to
the code base I don't like it because it it places additional risks I do like
injective product I was actually I did I did like a drive-through on injective
recently right where you sort of like go through everything check out the UX see
what transactions is making stuff like that right but at the end of the day I
must also admit I I don't see it the same way as like a Juno or an Osmo where
I can check every single line of code and also say robo that like having a check
through it it was that was a condition for validating and we wouldn't be there
otherwise I do that you appreciate your answer and I want to see this mind guys
I'm getting some DMS and people are saying wow this is like the best I've
ever heard you do it like everybody's loving this tonight mind you do so
thank you very much for it mind very very yeah I've enjoyed it as well is there
anything else that you'd like to talk about or you know well dude there is but
actually I think honest to God I think if we couldn't get questions from the
audience that would be great I do have a great idea you know what they want to
know about let's answer their questions I have got a question for you in the
same but you know something dude if we start talk cuz we've only got 25 minutes
then B bands was on I think if we start talking about June or you and I we might
be there for like two weeks maybe you and I might do a little like informal
fireside chat about June or something in the next couple of weeks right because
that could be very very much I'm quite bullish on the future Joe I realize you
got like some concerns at present but yeah yeah well we've still got the
NFT thing to do so we're gonna make history guys we're gonna make hopefully
NFT or Twitter spaces history tonight and right I've got a question here Jacob
right from a very established community member and it's asking about strange
love and inclusion right and they they've basically got ICF funding right
but they've got their funding on top of ICF delegations from the delegations
policy but it prohibits so they're getting they're getting I mean they're
having their dinner in their cake and everything at the same time aren't there
they there's a strict policy that prohibits them getting funded on one
side and then getting obviously money from the delegation policy but they are
I imagine that they're for different items one of the worst things about
the ICF situation is that like you know what screw it I'll just say it okay I've
seen the entire ICF budget and I've danced around this for like kind of a
long ass time and I've seen everything okay and there were I don't know two
like like kind of like oh that there could be a little stinky but if you
consider it I was looking at summary information for like 18 or 24 months two
stinkers actually isn't that bad and by the way neither of these were seven
figure speakers and so with the ICF and I this just it makes me sad to say this
okay everybody I'm really looking at a situation where it's poor quality
administration and not really like malice or fraud it's just being run
really poorly and that is it's really not fair of the community because you know
if we look at for example confios funding requests governance proposal right well
that conversation was dominated like hell by questions about the ICF and you know
what I would say that the community members were correct to be asking hey
what's up what's the ICF doing and I believe that confio didn't genuinely know
what the ICF was doing the ICF did a poor job of communicating with confio
and on the matter of strange love and I occlusion getting delegations from the
ICF what I would say to you Robo is that now I'm making an assumption okay
because it was actually it was a long ass time ago that I saw a whole budget
and stuff okay and I don't know if you guys have noticed my tone change well
okay that that's actually why I genuinely believe that I actually saw
complete information but it kind of just gets worse from there okay the reason
that it gets worse from tear guys is that like you see you're right to be
concerned Robo you're freaking right and I mean what basis do I have as as
Jacob from notional to be like well now like I don't know I've I've seen some
stuff that I'm ninety nine point nine nine nine nine nine percent sure they're
not gonna you know not gonna show just anybody and by the way I don't like I
didn't sign anything guys I don't sign NDAs this is a hard and fast rule with
only a couple of tiny exceptions that that apply to like commercial stuff
people's strategic anyhow certainly I wouldn't do one with the ICF because I
didn't want to like I've heard bad things anyhow okay strange love I
occlusion delegations I think it's fine to delegate them provided that it's not
for the same stuff again but that's that's that's basically it that's my
thought there I'll also say though like with Juno can I say can I say it's
lovely to have it's lovely to have but don't go Jacob back cuz dude after
Medellin we all thought we like lost her a little bit and honestly this is the
Jacob I remember this is the guy that like used to come and just tear up
spaces back in the day with just pure fact you know I love you dude thank you
very much Jacob you know thank you for having me on thank you so much and you
know what I you know I guess the thing that maybe made you feel like oh I
got losses a lot of commitments had been made to me a lot and the they
weren't true and that's that's horrible okay like you know my my complaints were
recognized by by various people in an associated with the ICF and I was told
you know around the time of cause or a little bit before a causal verse right
that these issues were going to be addressed they weren't and then you know
even more recently I've seen guys the the inefficiency around supporting strange
loves work it freaks me out okay it's just wasteful I'm not even talking about
financially supporting them I want to give you guys like a direct Jackson
blue quote because somebody suggested that we had a funding component to this
proposal make strange love the you know coordinator of maintainers on IVC go
exact words were no no we're actually I may be paraphrasing upon is no we're
paid well for this and I just want the work to be usable and that's that's
actually troubling these yes whatever sorry guys apologies for having to drop
out to take a very important phone call I don't mean if you guys have already
covered this I just want to ask before you know somebody or anybody has to run
Jacob what was your thoughts about the picture that came out of East Denver
where we saw two of the founding or parents I should just say the two
parents hugging with everything in Burger King is that in Burger King isn't
look on a personal level I'm happy for them I have had co-founder relationships
go wrong in the past it's harder than shit and I'm like for them to resolve
that and I really I guys I mean this so sincerely if they've resolved like some
interpersonal issues I am very happy for both of them now when it comes to the
ecosystem I think much better than a photo of Jay and buggy Bucky hugging
would be a frank discussion of the impacts of the consensus whether or not
which we we still haven't had that Frank discussion guys the consensus rug
was ludicrously expensive to the whole conversation and even to myself and guy
that I don't I mean other than let's say on the hub and you know in a couple of
places where you have contracts like we were doing the transition for free or
you know whatever the hell our delegations cost you know pay us but thing
is when you make this change from tenderment to comment on any chain you
you're creating it's not a no-risk thing my friends there is real risk there and
I they should speak to the community
should also speak to the community though was it do you think Ethan should also
speak to the community though after having a photo op like that oh yeah that's
what I would love they have both of them on a
basis like this one okay and begin conversation like okay look Jay's done
some fucked up stuff and he said some fucked up stuff right he's not evil and
he's contributed a whole bunch of stuff cosmos and I wish you would stop you
know maybe saying so much fucked up stuff and doing so much fucked up stuff
but I'm not saying that like dudes a snake or something okay and on the
bottom side of the equation I feel quite slowly okay and I think that if we're
really attempting to build transparent long-lasting systems right that if that
is genuinely our goal over time then we it's it's on us and when I say us I
actually don't mean the folks in the audience your job frankly please is questions and
accountability right like and you know some questions don't even answer enter the
realm of accountability stuff but like what I mean is please be engaged if you
if you hold tokens you know ask any question you want to but when it comes
to people who really through the communities efforts okay have ended up
in some kind of a leadership role if we're serious about decentralization
we're serious about transparency then yeah like you know come out be exposed a
little bit and have a talk and and that it's tremendously valuable and and by
the way if they'd have done that instead of just like this no context photo it
could be a very different thing you know what I mean yeah I'd be a very very
different thing because I gotta be honest with you Jacob right now I still
have a little bit of Adam but I like you know person I've been saying this to my
community or I should say the IBC community not my community at all
excuse me apologies but you know the viewers of my show I sold a whole bunch
of Adam I saw a whole bunch out of real close to $13 because I don't like
the shit that's happening right now I don't like the like there is no
leadership there seems to be every entity within the space excluding I'm just
not saying it because you're here but from the things that you said absolutely
love that you know you're you think more business-wise your entity of more of a
business you you operate more as a business you know excluding notional it
seems like every entity that has any kind of direct exposure or or power to
control the narrative or course for Adam and the cosmos hub is either
practicing very very poor business habits poor sustainability like and just you
know broad strokes just poor everything and like you know you're talking about
oak jay the consensus we have yeah we've got to be really careful
on the time right really really careful and I'm worried we're running out a
little bit right and I was gonna say Jacob I mean
you said you said your piece on that right we did see it because people are
starting to jump up now I really apologize tan because you know it's
bare bones of web three any any other if it wasn't bare bones and
bands I'll be like ah fuck it you know let's just roll
but we are running out of time Sasha's gonna come up with Sasha you're gonna
have to wait one second because we're gonna make history
and we've got to do this because this has been like days of planning
eh Jacob for tonight for tonight we our artist Ambedo
right the artist known as Ambedo created a one-on-one piece
for notional uh this is the first time we've ever done it
uh I think this is maybe a first for like a twitter spaces team
in doing what we're doing uh dude we want to
uh as a kind of like you know to mark the occasion
we want to mint it on shame and we want it to be in the notional da
treasury or wherever you're going to keep your entity whatever right
oh my godators uh have a wallet right well every second
and you can just say it there yeah one second wait a minute dude because this
well the next question is the important thing
uh our original idea because I want everyone in the room to know guys if you
go to the bio of the rack fm account you'll see our dao you'll see a link
to dao dao that is the rack fm account right
oh guys bebans is that a jump off to go to assure
she was waving goodbye but never mind we'll we'll go there at 10 o'clock so
we'll have to be quick right jacob there's a big decision for
you to make uh we were going to mint it in our dao
obviously easy through governance uh and then obviously transfer it to your
day where you could you know put it in your treasury and it's there
forever as a a unique one-on-one piece or
i've actually been invited uh through cisla
to take part in the uh game of nodes which is the
thing with the ark protocol and across gnnft's
with the ics oh that's amazing oh yeah that's one thing that's really cool
so well if you were to have that picture and we're going to what
what amigos going to do dude is going to destroy the original so
it that will only ever live on in the nft
because on twitter that image it's not a proper image on twitter you can't get it
back on twitter right the image the proper picture will only be on
jane in the future yeah would you prefer the oh that's so smart
you're going to put the data i'm saying it'll be huge action
oh do you prefer the ics 721 or the down down room that's that's how we get the
data on chain right oh yeah do that please please
right okay let me hook that up and and what i was going to say is listen guys
you know ambedo's done this for jacob right but
it's our job we're trying to run the business yeah rak fm now is a
professional business moving forward yeah
we're making a lot of connections we're doing a lot of right things
basically guys like we're taking care of our artists
i'm going to say to jacob right now hey there's our doubt out
we all know that you know a tip can be dropped or whatever if there is a tip
dropped in there it will be put into staker and then
staking rewards are going to be used to you know give to artists and
forgiveaways but yeah jacob we're going to do that for you
right we're going to get the ics 721 standard we're going to sort that out for
you no problem whatsoever if you wanted to
drop rak fm a tip you could but you will be the first one to
start our like funding kind of push like forward because like
the cool thing is dude the cool thing is we've got a doubt
how does again by the way uh audience i believe talking about
they're getting into tech they're doing the jpegs and they've got some tech too
and uh i love raccoon technology man um yeah
find them in dumpsters and the computer science lab
i tell you what jacob what were your first thoughts we'll get sasha in right
now because we are running out of time we have to go
in nine minutes jacob when you saw ambido's one-on-one piece like created
oh my god i love it i positively love it and you know like okay the shirtless thing
it's just like it's just me having fun i like to see that um when i got a cat
head and dude it's fantastic oh and you know
and then it's cold cold jacob right it's cold yeah
fg i meant it today like uh from chains to chains back and forth that was really
fun and how is how easy is it sasha how easy is it
um it's it's getting easier and uh the cool thing is there's uh multiple ways
you can have a native on shane as a module or you can use uh cosmo contracts
for it so would you give us a little bit of
help sasha maybe because i've got the instructions all right i've got the
instruction half day or the full day uh testing four chains
amazing absolutely amazing we can go like we can mint on omni flicks and send it to
i'm i'm pretty i'm pretty sure we can yeah
okay sasha did you have any questions for jacob
did you know because i know you've come up are you being dying on like yeah
one question which was kind of related to the
i was looking at informal systems and their rust implementation of tenement
like what's your take on that one it makes me want to cry
i'll tell you why okay just so you know it's not a rest
implementation of tenement we all wish it was a rest
implementation of tenement like i really really do
i've worked with it in a bunch of different contexts
but what it actually is is a rust client library for tenderman
and there was talk of doing a full rust implementation for tenderman stuff
however if you're looking at that rust code
right you're like it looks like they're gonna go all the way
come on guys go go go by the way informal's freaking awesome
at rust like it's it's great um
sadly the decision was made not to go all the way
yet and i'm you know certainly i i can't wait until it is taken all the way
i think today will eventually take it all the way
and then there's this uh what was it a co-mate
uh b bft bft commit or something but i think that one is from
uh interchain foundation right okay comment is a little complicated comment
is primarily developed at informal systems uh
and it is the replacement to tenderman and it is the
it's it's the love child of the consensus rugged
and i hate it so much i don't hate comment by the way guys i'm like
informal did what they needed to under the circumstances
and please don't ever say i'm hate non-informal over
comment because the fact of the matter is like
that was a shit job that nobody should have had to do right like
you know imagine you know imagine your cat walks into the room and just craps
all over you have to clean it up well look that's what happened with the
tournament consensus rugged it's it's very bad
um and uh so comment just so you know it is a
just straight up replacement to tenderman
with a refreshed trademark no i'm not kidding really
yes that's all okay i saw that okay thank you thank you
and it's just perfectly in a picture what happened there
sorry oh it's just it is disturbingly inefficient
like oh yeah okay then you know okay yeah let's wait about four
months of dev time times about five people to uh
to uh i'm pissed about this by the way guys
the last thing i saw today was like blazer hub
and it's like uh it's like a completely in browser chain
that seems to have or wants to be ibc compatible
and has like some kind of i send it in your dms
like open place it's some kind of new thing i don't know
yeah absolutely i think i thought did you you're the one with something
yeah i think i said and uh when i saw the ts uh i mean like the
relayer for ibc in typescript which runs completely in the browser
um if we have web assembly
we could do a lot of stuff there yeah and then
having it on phones or whatever like completely
like a mesh like like internet of things some some freaky stuff well i will say
this uh i'm long the fan of angry mouse's work
seriously he did like iq on that young teenage fellow is
wow so guys on that point we are coming to the end of the show and
do you know why it's because you're a woman who's often a co-host
i would never ever even though i could jacob do you know something i could keep
talking to you for like the next like two hours and we wouldn't run out of
topics i'm literally thinking now like do you
could be fair if i try and organize a little bit of like a june all round table
like a one-off special maybe for next week or something all the way after
where we can sit down and talk about like how we can address what we see are
fundamental issues but like also how we can be a lot more
productive and collaborate together like moving forward
would you be happy to come on that i love it
and i would attend an heartbeat um please do
and just let me know what it is i'll be there sure
brilliant well the raka fem the raka oh sorry sasha the raka femme account still
stay and you sasha will be in touch with you because
we're probably going to need some help and guidance but
thank you so much for offering that huge to us we really appreciate you as a
as a friend of the show yeah yeah
so this was great thank you for the NFT thanks for like all the great
questions and um you know i'll try to join like one of
your um open spaces so so if anybody's here you
didn't get an answer question or anything um i'll drop in and i also want to say
thanks to all the listeners emotional evaluators emotional customers
and just like all the people who do all the cool shit in cosmos so
have a good night guys uncle jacob hey that's the uncle jacob right guys and i
know i'll tell you this is why like i've just been i've
followed the guy for fun since like the loam
fucking uh debacle like jacob you know when when we have like
super jacob like on cosmos dude you help us like
feel indestructible like we all feel a lot safer
when we've got uncle jacob like flying the flag like
rational and you know you're insane dude your work ethic and like
you're brilliant how it works and how you see things man
we fucking need you a lot you know yeah absolutely absolutely yeah
but but dude when you start going bad shit like crazy mad
like not sleeping for three days and just fucking going off the chains that's
neat good for you you know calm i think the calm methodical jacob
oh dude you're gonna win fans you're gonna win fans for the next 20 year or two
like you'll be on 50k followers like within the next like two three years
easily but yeah jacob i've got to thank you so
much uh guys uh if you go to the space
skelly's account or even b bands as account you all know who i mean but
there might be some new people in the room
that's space skelly's like skeleton skelly's ies yeah
they do a wonderful really good weekly show
10 a.m est just my co-host on here so i've got to end the show even though
i've loved it but yeah we'll sign on i'll catch you guys later i'm gonna hop
off too see you around take care jacob thank you very much
for your honesty tonight and sasha thank you yeah and thanks to everyone
god bless everyone yeah speak to you guys soon bye