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Oasis x Oraichain x Thorn
Recorded: Sept. 4, 2024 Duration: 0:59:51Space Recording
Full Transcription
So we'll get started.
And then as the space fills in, you know, people will join in here.
Listen.
But today we're joined by Jake, the founder of Thorne, and Tyree, the head of ecosystem at ArayaChain.
So Jake and Tyree, if you guys maybe want to give a brief introduction to yourselves and, you know, a brief summary of your projects.
And we'll get into it further as the space goes on.
So hello. Hello, Will. Hello, everyone. Good afternoon.
So glad to be here today. Let me introduce myself a bit.
I think maybe some of you know me. I am Jake and I am the CEO of Thorne Protocol.
And today I am representing Thorne to participate with Oasis and ORAC chain in this exciting event.
And yes, it's all about me. And I would like to have a good time today to discuss with you about the Thorne Protocol.
Cool. Yeah. And a quick intro introduction on on me.
I'm Tyree Robinson, head of ecosystem at ORAC chain.
I've been with ORAC chain labs forever.
It feels like since since early 2021.
So in crypto years, that's like your entire professional career, essentially.
And and yeah, so for those of you guys that don't know about ORAC chain, we have been building in the AI Web 3 space since since we were founded back in 2020.
We're also working very heavily on infrastructure and we have a lot of great products, one of which is O wallet, which supports Oasis consensus and Sapphire natively in that wallet.
So I'm happy to join here today. And sort of a side note, I am also a big supporter and advisor for Thorne Protocol.
So that's why I'm I'm here and joining today as well.
I'm really excited about what what Thorne is building over on Sapphire.
And I think that it's it's going to be a huge product for the overall growth of Sapphire moving forward.
So excited to dive in and hear more from Jake about it.
Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, for everyone who doesn't know, yeah, Tyree has been a large supporter of Oasis.
You know, I think I saw him hop into the early days of the Illuminex chat.
He's been helping a lot with Thorne.
And then for O wallet, you know, Thorne, I believe, is the first DAP on Oasis to integrate O wallet.
Although we're we're encouraging every DAP going forward to integrate because it's one like super clean UX and the fact that it supports both consensus and Sapphire natively.
It's I think the only mobile wallet that does that.
I don't think I know it's the only mobile wallet that does that.
And so it can give users really a comprehensive view of, you know, what's going on across the entire ecosystem with their rows.
And so I just want to give them a shout out and encourage everyone to go download a wallet because I think it's going to be the easiest way to interact with our ecosystem.
But yeah, I guess after that plug, I'd love to just get a bit of a better idea.
You know, first from you, Jake, where what made you sort of decide that, you know, Oasis and specifically the Sapphire ecosystem, it was the ecosystem that you guys wanted to build the Thorne protocol on.
And then Tyree, maybe as an outside note, you know, not so specific to Thorne, but maybe some of the things that you found interesting about Sapphire.
Yeah, we'll go from there.
Yeah.
Yes, as we usually mentioned that in the past, Thorne is a stable swap protocol.
So, you know, we have a lot of the stable swap protocol on different network like, you know, PancakeSwap or, you know, the Curve Finance on Ethereum, PancakeSwap on the BNB chain.
So we are the first pioneer of stable swap protocol that we deploy on the Sapphire.
So we enable users to swap privately, you know, it is an advantage of Sapphire, just stable coin and or close price asset and enjoy the cross-chain utility.
So we mean we also enable the cross-chain utility that you can, you know, you know, cross, you know, chain from, for example, Ethereum to the Sapphire and Vibersa.
So the Thorne is similar to, you know, the decentralized chain and based on the AMM, but focuses on the stable coin or crypto asset with the close price and helping traders to swap the token with the low-grade slippatch and enhance the efficiency for liquidity pairs.
So our platform is one of the pioneer stable swap that liberates AI wallet inside our ecosystem.
We also develop the AI wallet based on the, you know, the abstraction, account abstraction technique to provide advanced trading experience for the user across the different blockchain networks.
So Sapphire is our home, so Sapphire is our home, so we, you can, you know, get your token or coin from other network to Sapphire to take advantage of, you know, the privacy and keep your, you know, the number of your token in your wallet in secret.
And currently our system contains five products.
The first one, stable swap, as I mentioned it, liquidity AI wallet based on the account abstraction technique, governance, I mean the DAO and lending.
In the future, we, we also offer the lending functionality to the end user.
So we follow the curve finance operation.
So you also have, we have the, you know, the, the way to, you know, go to the defined environment and take profit from that.
And when creating corn, we not only aim to solve the problem of the high slippatch, but we are also able to bring a platform with the utmost privacy and security for the user.
As well as support for our partner over this ecosystem, growth.
And that's why we, we are on the Sapphire.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For me, I guess, can you hear me still, Will?
I put on some headphones here.
Yeah.
I hear you great.
Thank you so much.
All right.
No problem.
So, so for me, I guess I'm going to start out a little bit by talking about why, why Sapphire has always been so interesting to me.
Um, you know, confidentiality and privacy has always had a place in web three.
It's a very deep part of the crypto ethos, um, as much as transparency is, you know, uh, and so somehow, uh, we haven't had a sort of universal touch point for privacy.
For privacy, a developer toolkit that could sort of be accessed anywhere.
We've had some, you know, privacy coins and privacy networks, but having a layer that is EVM compatible that enables privacy was something that when Will and I originally talked was very exciting to me.
Um, thinking about the implications for, um, thinking about the implications for, for governance was sort of where, where our journey began experimenting with using Sapphire, um, during some early sort of CW 20, uh, governance protocols that we were playing around with maybe last year or the year before now.
Um, I think it was last year when, and I think that Sapphire was already on the main net at that point.
So, uh, that was where we sort of started.
Um, and then I, the, the, I've, uh, Illuminex was really interesting to me, right?
Uh, being able to choose how, how much privacy you want was such like a big step forward.
Right.
And it really started to open my eyes to the possibility of, of what's going on here.
Right.
And, and that was just fantastic.
And I, and I, I'm a huge supporter of Illuminex have been from the very beginning.
And, and that really sort of drew me into the ecosystem.
Um, and I think that it's been sort of important to see, you know, how Illuminex is positioning
in the market today to sort of understand the importance of, of Thorn, right?
It's, um, seeing the, the value of privacy and being able to export that privacy, uh, to
other places is, is very, is very big.
And so it's not necessarily about only doing for that, for sort of the big, you know, um,
alt assets or even Bitcoin itself, which Illuminex is doing right now.
It's really awesome, but also for stable coins, which make up a huge part of our ecosystems.
And then also, you know, stable coins are a bedrock of any sovereign ecosystem.
Right.
So where Thorn protocol was very exciting to me is the idea of being able to simultaneously
connect that liquidity from external networks while being able to provide that stable coin
liquidity in a place where it's private and also provides a risk off venue for people to
earn swap fees, earn yields in a completely private environment.
Right.
So that sort of is the overall, you know, my, what, how I got to, you know, supporting
Thorn, but, uh, I guess, uh, it's sort of a step further.
I, I am a believer that Oasis Sapphire will be like the backbone of confidentiality for the
EVM ecosystem moving forward.
So this is one reason why I've pushed to allocate resources to support it very early on as a network
on O wallet, right?
Is that because I do believe that it will be a primary, a developer resource for a lot
of people building and requiring confidentiality in their, in their protocols, um, making sure
that there's a great mobile first wallet touch point for people, um, to interact with protocols
on there, uh, was really, was really important.
And, and obviously very grateful that Jake at Thorn protocol, uh, has integrated, uh, O wallet
there because essentially what we're looking to do right out of the gate is ensure that
mobile users who you make, you know, make up 70% of internet traffic, right?
We can't ignore mobile users, uh, that they have this great user experience, um, along with
the excellent protocol that, uh, stable swap protocol that, that Jake is building, uh, at
Thorn protocol.
So hopefully that gives you, uh, some high level on, on my POV there, Will.
No, absolutely.
That was, uh, that was a great answer.
And, uh, I loved how you tied it all together.
Um, just want to give my two cents as well.
You know, uh, Tyree touched on it, you know, that, you know, Oasis aims to, you know, he
has, he has a lot of faith in us and, uh, you know, I have a lot of faith in us as
well, but we certainly aim to, you know, be the backbone of confidentiality, um, for, for
every EDM network and, you know, with both these, uh, guests, uh, joining us today, you
know, they're helping us achieve that goal, uh, with O-Wallet, that's helping us, uh, reach
these mobile users, um, to provide just, you know, a clean UX experience, um, for, for
every user on the Sapphire network, which has, you know, historically been a problem, but
we're, we're slowly solving it and a great help from the O-Wallet team.
Um, but for Thorn as well, you know, maybe, maybe some people, um, you know, stable swaps
are, um, maybe not as well understood, understood as like an AMM or DEXs, but, um, for this sort
of goal of Sapphire, which is to be connected to so many ecosystems, you know, each ecosystem
has their own sort of stable coin and their own, their own sources of liquidity.
And so you can't really have like a DEX that is, uh, the primary way of onboarding and off
onboarding from those ecosystems.
You need like a low, low slippage way.
And that's what stable swaps have historically been.
They've been, you know, low slippage ways of getting in and out of ecosystems or getting
in and out of protocols.
Um, and that, that's, you know, if not, it's as important, if not extraordinarily more important
for the OASIS ecosystem to achieve its goals.
And so Thorn is really going to serve as, um, a critical pillar of this ecosystem.
And I think one thing that I would like to mention is like, it's not even necessarily
just the stable coins.
Uh, you know, I know we're going to get into the AI wallet and we're going to get into the
lending, but the place that, you know, immediately I see a massive impact, um, is with our staked
rose token, which should be coming, uh, late September, early October, a little bit of alpha
for everyone there.
So you'll be able to have liquid staked rose, uh, on OASIS Sapphire, but in order to do
so, um, you actually need to have a concentrated liquidity pool, um, uh, where you can go from
the staked rose to the regular rose and you can sort of have that low slippage environment
or else, uh, the protocol kind of breaks down.
Uh, and without Thorn and without, you know, having that infrastructure in place, the accumulated
finance team who was building the, the stake rose protocol was looking at like bridging
to, bridging to B and B chain and then using pancake swap for, for the, it would have been
extremely cumbersome, uh, on the average user and not even just the average user, any user.
And so Thorn, just by being on the ecosystem immediately solves this problem for, for other
ecosystem participants.
Um, and I think that'll only become more and more apparent, um, as the ecosystem develops
and as we go further into this discussion, um, but going into that, I'd love to actually,
can I just add one, one more thing?
Well, I, I feel like one thing that people don't realize until they really, really think
about it is how often they use centralized exchanges in order to get between networks,
right?
Rather than using a decentralized bridge, you know, when you're working with stable coins,
a lot of times people that use sexes feel more comfortable to say, let me, let me move
my USDT to Binance and then go to the other destination network.
Or let me, if I can't get USDC over there with, with great efficiency, uh, in a direct
route, let me go to, you know, Mexi or KuCoin or wherever and do that swap where there's deep
liquidity and then transfer out to that supported network.
And this is really sort of a big, a big opportunity, right?
Um, for, for Oasis to both be at a nexus between these networks where, you know, there is, we
know that there is demand in the multi-chain universe, right?
To move between these networks, but doing that both in an efficient way.
Uh, but then that added benefit of, of having that swap be private, private, right?
Where you, you, you know, and the MEV protected, no front running, like all of that is, is so
critical, right?
Um, and it ends up being, I think it will be a great place for people to also park their
risk off liquidity, right?
Being able to say, I want to provide liquidity at this nexus between all of these different
EVMs, uh, and earn that yield in a private way.
Like that's that, all of that is very, very attractive to me.
And, and I think that as we hopefully as an ecosystem, you know, begin to rely more heavily
on DeFi over centralized exchanges.
I, I say all of that, knowing the role and respecting the role that the centralized exchanges
play in the ecosystem.
But ultimately, you know, centralized exchanges should be a stepping stone to get to decentralization,
like as, as pure a version of decentralization as possible, right?
So people like Thorn Protocol are going to play a huge role, uh, in seeing that vision
come to life across, across many ecosystems.
I couldn't agree with you more.
And, uh, fingers crossed that, you know, this is the bull market where people finally realize
that, um, you know, while centralized exchanges have their purpose, um, they're also risky
and that we, you know, as an industry, if we don't want another FTX and we don't want,
you know, another Mt. Gox and all of the exchanges that have happened before that, uh, or in between
those two, um, you know, we really need to embrace decentralization more and, you know, sort
of wrapping up what you said, basically you get all those benefits.
You get the same confidentiality or even more confidentiality than you would on a centralized
exchange. You get the same level of trust and then you get the same level of being able
to bridge between ecosystems. Um, so that's, you know, hopefully the industry, um, recognizes
that value that it provides. Um, but, you know, sort of on the same point where we talked
about, you know, um, the need for great user experience, I'd love to get your opinion, Jake,
on one, like what you have planned for your AI wallet, like what the benefits of the AI
wallet are, and then what, you know, the, why you think those benefits, you know, are necessary,
you know, how they're improving upon the stable swaps that currently exist.
Okay. So, uh, you know, uh, uh, I would like to, to highlight the privacy and security, uh,
uh, for the user, uh, for the user, it is a benefit of the torn protocol that we bring
to the end user on the supply, uh, network in particular, and also on this, uh, our
assist. So, uh, you know, supply, uh, offer, uh, the protection functionality for the user
data, uh, using, uh, robust, uh, framework on, uh, you know, part-time confident runtime.
So this runtime encrypt both contract storage key and the value. So in this way, ensuring
the own data managed by the torn remain confidential. So I said to the encrypted data is strictly
controlled through selectively disclosed view function from the fully open to authenticated
access. So, moreover, uh, the torn protocol will take extra step by encrypting transaction
call data with within the OASIS supply. And in this way, preventing authorize, uh, party
from, uh, deciphering sensitive detail, uh, powering by supply sub, uh, superior technology.
So torn enable user to swap except if, if fall lastly, without fear of the map attack.
So I would like to, to mention about the map attack. So everyone, you know, when you, you
are on the Ethereum or on other HN as a network. So if you would like to, I train the token,
so you fake with the problem that the extract from the, you know, the, uh, the board, right?
So on with the torn protocol on the supply, you do not worry about that. And, uh, with the privacy
of our, this supply, we aim to create more ecosystem prior writing privacy, such as a private
token, cross chain transfer and, uh, based on the, uh, account traction that I, I, I, I, I refer
in the past about the AI wallet. So we can offer to the end user auto trader. Uh, you mean, you know,
you can, you know, you can create a recipe to trade and, uh, get the token from different
chain and put the token into the swap and swap from the token to another one. And you can, you know,
provide the token into a liquidity pool and so on. You can define a recipe and you can run on, uh,
by the recipe on a single transaction, by the way, you can, uh, you know, reduce the fee. And in this
way you also can, you know, um, maybe, uh, you can, uh, keep secret to transaction based on the,
uh, this supply framework. And this is the next step in our mission to make the, our D app as easy
to use at, uh, centralized D app. You know, you can, you can think about the decentralized application,
uh, as a centralized application, and you can maybe in the future, you can use this as a bank.
I would like to say that you can use a ton of, uh, you know, the centralized application and take
all advantage of the decentralized feature. Awesome. And just listening to you describe
the AI wallet, it seems like very similar to Intense. Is that, is that the infrastructure
that you guys are using or are you guys just doing something similar on the backend? Yeah.
Let's learn like a little bit more about how the AI wallet is working, um, for its account abstraction.
Yeah. Actually. So I, I want to hop in here because one of the, one of the cool things,
I think that, that from seeing sort of the way that, that Jake is building the, the D defy, uh,
I guess, I think you called it recipe right now, defy, like sort of recipe creator, right? Um,
Intents are, are awesome, right? I love Intents. Intents are sort of extracting, uh, the entire
experience of figuring out where you're going to swap, what liquidity pools you're going to hit,
what networks you're going to go to. Uh, and they just start at what the user wants and they get you
there right automatically. Um, and you have these solvers in between that are competing to, you know,
most efficiently be able to provide a user with what their request is essentially. Right. So it's
very much like a request and fulfillment, uh, process. And that's really great. But for
users that want control, right. Uh, that want fine to control. I think that that's really where,
where AI becomes, uh, really a major unlock for people to be able to define their own
pathways and create their own recipes, right? Being able to say, um, it's almost like I have
a toolkit now that is a manual intent solver that I can go through and create solutions or ask the AI
to give me solutions that are appropriate for my intent. Uh, but I still have the power to fine tune
them and execute them in one click. Right. So rather than all of that sort of intent solution happening by
I mean, what I, I still consider most intent frameworks to be sort of like trusted third
parties. I don't think that we're at a totally trustless place with that yet. Right. Instead
of that, you sort of own the responsibility and accountability of that execution. AI is a tool
there to deliver you the answers that you need in the, in the greatest efficiency as possible. Um,
so anyways, that's, that's my, that's my input and why I'm sort of excited about the
way that the Jake is going about solving it. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much for,
for, uh, you know, hopping in. Um, that sounds extremely exciting. You know, I think,
yeah, I agree with you entirely that, um, you know, while tents are really cool right now,
they are, they are sort of trusted and there's, there's not like a clear way that, you know,
they're going to be moved to a trustless sort of solution because the solvers sort of have to run
in these, these cloud info providers. Um, and you know, that they're centralized large entities.
Um, but it's, it's interesting to hear. It's like, it's, it's not just, this is the outcome I want,
and I don't care how to get there, but it's also, you know, giving the users that, that wish to have,
so the, the ability to create, you know, um, specifications, um, and parameters for,
for the, how their funds are used and who has access to their funds and who has access to their
confidential data. Um, and it's so, so in line with, you know, everything Oasis has always tried to be,
you know, give users more control, um, but give it to them in a way that, you know, if they,
if they don't want it, you know, they don't have to take it, but if they do want it, they have it,
they have it available there. And it's without increasing, let's say the, the, the difficulty
of the user experience and just maximizing flexibility. Um, so that sounds super exciting to me.
Do you have any other thoughts, Jake, that you want to share about your AI wallet before we move on
to the next topic? Oh, yes. Uh, for the auto-chain decentralized application,
we would like, you know, uh, collect the data and, uh, you know, uh, for example, we listen
the transaction on the different, uh, network and we find out the way to make more benefit for the user.
And maybe we can success the way to get the benefit for the user. User can use, uh, you know, uh,
uh, uh, define a predefined, uh, recipe, or you can, uh, the user also can define their recipe.
And in this way, maybe in the future, we can create a secondary marketplace for the recipe user can create
their, our recipe post to the marketplace and other guy can download the recipe and run again.
So I think this is a big vision for the future of the AI. We can create some, some way of AI marketplace for the recipe for all the chatter.
And the most important thing here is that we keep the secret, the privacy for every transaction takes the advantage or the, uh, the advantage from the supply.
And, you know, you can transfer the token, you can swap the token, you can get the benefit and you can keep,
you know, the number of tokens that you have on the supply. And I think this is very important for the user.
And they also can get the way to get more benefit based on AI analysis, data analysis, by the way.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And like, I think that, and there you talked about, you know, um, yeah,
just keep like the number about a number of tokens people have confidential. And I, I didn't really
touch on that before, but I've always had this idea of like, what happens or like, how cool would it be
if you take USDC and you put it on Sapphire and now you have this confidential routing, let's say of USDC,
where you can have it on Ethereum and you can send it to someone on Avalanche. And, you know, the, the, the user,
like the person who sends the person who receives can see that that transaction happened and they have that data.
Um, and then, you know, similarly, Circle still has the ability to, to access, you know, where the, where the, the account, uh,
you know, who, who had it before and who has it now. But at the same time, you know,
your neighbors, your friends, um, they can't see. And so what you really get is, you know,
something equivalent to a level of confidentiality or, you know, slightly greater than the level of
confidentiality that comes with, uh, stable coin curve, or not stable coin, but like US dollars today,
when they're, when they're in like your bank account or through Venmo or through Zelle, uh,
or I think revolt is, uh, a large one in Europe. So you're creating basically the same infrastructure
that we have in web 2.0. Um, but we're creating it trustlessly, uh, with greater confidentiality,
where there's no like centralized entity that can ban their transactions. So that's the,
that was just my two cents on, you know, sort of where Thorne could go in the future, um,
based on the infrastructure that you're providing. And I, I guess, because, you know, I, it seems
like a shame to not get into like the importance of privacy for AI here, you know, directly, because
I think that, especially as we look at AI applications in web three, the big excitement
is always going to be about AI driven automations for individuals to be able to access either
DeFi strategies, trading strategies or whatnot. Right. And the big problem with, you know, going
for 100% transparency, when you're talking about, you know, generating some kind of automation recipe
or workflow, uh, is that once you hit start on that recipe, anybody can now come in on another chain,
right? Anybody can now come in and see all of the steps that you're going to take. Um, and with block
times, you know, six seconds or, you know, 12 seconds is plenty of time for somebody to
attack there and front run you, right. Um, to be able to see your entire plan, uh, that might,
you know, you might be having an arbitrage swap or something, right. That you create an automate
automation for, and somebody can see your whole plan and attack that and front run you at every turn
and extract your, your value from it. Right. And, uh, the benefit of Thorne building it on,
on Oasis, right. Is that now you can't, now that automation is completely confidential and secure.
So you don't know what my automation's next move is going to be. That really helps to,
to shield it from, from bad actors. Right. So I think that it's an important improvement,
um, for these types of sort of low code AI driven, uh, DeFi recipe, DeFi saver applications.
So, uh, I'm very excited about that as well. Yeah. Yeah. And everything you just said,
I mean, I guess it is exactly what you said, but it reminded me of like the early DeFi days.
Um, you know, before MEV was, you know, there was large institutions and in the MEV space,
um, you know, there's just people building their own sort of MEV bots. And, you know, at one point,
you know, someone will be considered really good at, you know, building an MEV bot and then other
people wouldn't even build their own. They would just copy the trades that that person was doing.
And then there became this game theory where people would put in like fake trades and then
cancel it at the last second to see if they can like, I don't know, there's like a ton of game
theory involved. And it's like, yeah, I think at that point, life's getting too complicated.
And like you said, Oasis sort of solves that. And so it's, it's an unneeded hassle that people have
to worry, don't have to worry about. And I don't want to like talk, talk smack here. I know that MEV has
become a big part of the lifeblood for Ethereum, right? So like I, you know, anybody that's working
in that space, don't take offense to me, but in the name, we're talking about extraction of value,
right? Uh, not accrual of value, right? And so when you have people that are specifically
focusing on extracting value, uh, from your ecosystem, uh, and that's sort of promoting
this gamification gamifying this, um, this, this front run bot ecosystem, reordering transactions,
all of these different things, then you start incentivizing the wrong user behavior and you take
a step away from that sort of, you know, utopian defy dream that we all have. Right. And so again,
I think like emphasizing again, this privacy is really crucial because it takes us in a step back
towards what a sort of purest view of defy, I think should be, um, where you don't have as much
value extraction. You have more, uh, value accrual from the participants. And, and that,
that, that is exciting to me. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree with you more. So shifting up gears,
I wanted to talk about one other feature you mentioned, Jake, you talked about lending and
you said that it would be following sort of the curve model. Could you describe like what that
sort of lending model is, um, and how you view lending to work, uh, within, within the protocol?
Uh, yes. Okay. So, uh, because we are the stable swap, uh, and we, we, uh, operate, uh,
following the operation of, uh, the curve finance. So, uh, we are at the time, we, uh, we are
developing the lending protocol, uh, for the thorn, uh, and we, we test this one and, uh, you know,
the lending protocol is, uh, uh, uh, based on the curve finance. Then in this way, we create a stable
token for thorn, uh, for thorn and the token can be used to land in the protocol. So in the world,
uh, that's why thorn token will be used as a government token, you know, you know, we, we enable
user to, you know, deposit, uh, other token. I mean, uh, for example, ETA, USDC, USDT, and in this way,
the user can mint a stable token, by the way, and the stable token will use as a land token on the
lending, uh, pool of the thorn. So we follow the, the same, the same operation of the curve finance.
And in this way, we enable the define and we hope we are the, the first one, uh, uh, lending protocol
on the supply. Uh, we enable, you know, the, you know, privacy and confidential for the user.
And of course, we also integrate AI wallet, as I mentioned before, uh, and enable user
to, you know, define their recipe for their token. Uh, and, uh, for example, the user can
cross chain, swap the token from other network to the supply and put the token to, you know, uh,
mint the stable token. And in this way, they can put the stable token to the landing pool and so on.
And by the way, we can create a, you know, cycle for the token. It is a good one. And, uh, you know,
the, the, the way to, uh, bring the benefit to the end user. Yeah.
Okay. So if I, if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that your governance token will be,
will be enabled, will, will be one of the options where you can deposit it into the lending protocol.
Yeah. Therefore you can either borrow other stable coins or will you also have your own stable coin?
Uh, this is a kind of the stable coin. You know, we would like to keep the, the, the, uh, the,
you know, the value of the coin as equivalent to the dollar is a kind of the stable coin. Maybe,
maybe we can buy this, uh, torn USDT or something like that.
Yeah. Got it. Got it. Well, that sounds great. It sounds like it provides like, yeah,
like you said, like a lot more value to the governance token, it can be involved, uh, in
governance or it can be used as collateral. And therefore, you know, just, I think that's the
goal of every, uh, governance or utility token is just to provide as much, uh, benefit to the end user
as possible. Um, so I guess maybe a good segue from that is, you know, how is your decentralized
governance model going to work? You know, is it, do you have any, uh, plans for when you want to
decentralize into a DAO? Um, and do you have any, uh, you know, differences from normal DAO
infrastructure that you guys are going to implement or yeah, just love to learn more about that.
Yeah. Um, of course we also, we run the DAO model to enable the maximum decentralization to
the end user. So in which, uh, the model user exact who holds all token in the sometime can write
their opinion by voting in the DAO application. Uh, it does work through the determining the torn
token you have. We, we calculate the reputation of the user and the higher your reputation score,
the more influence you have on the project decision in the future. However, we also consider
the urgent cases. It means, for example, in the future, maybe we face with the problem of only hack
or code revert on and so on and so on. And in this way, in our, our DAO model, we also set the security
board that maybe include five different people or even seven different people. This is our team advisors
and even, uh, network foundation and so on. So the team can vote to make the quick
decision for the town. The board also work by the board. So it means we based on the community
voting, but in the urgent cases, we have a board and the board can have the protocol to make the quick
decision. And the design of DAO model does enable the decentralized government, but still able to
measure in the space okay to resolve urgent problem by the responsible for the project. So we,
we, we, we developed the DAO model based on the compound protocol on the Ethereum with two levels.
The community is the first level. And the second level is, uh, the, uh, you know, the security board.
I love it. I love it because yeah, I think that that's, that's always like an issue or a friction point
that DAO has had this, you know, do we vote on every single issue and does it take, is it a three
month, you know, uh, uh, deliver, deliberation process to pass, you know, some minor upgrade or,
you know, uh, enable some random, uh, some small new feature, um, versus, you know, how, how do we enable
the accurate amount of decentralization, the amount, accurate amount of, you know, reputation and influence
from the users, um, for, you know, the level of security that's needed for depending on like how
important, um, uh, a, uh, proposal is. So that's really excited and exciting. And I'm, you know,
interested to, to learn more about how it works. I hope you guys come out with like a blog post or,
or something to describe that. Um, because, uh, I think honestly, it sounds pretty innovative from,
you know, what some of the other DAOs are doing. Um, yeah, I don't know, Tyree, do you have any
thoughts as well? No, no, no major thoughts, but I'm, I do have a question, um, you know, uh,
regarding the, the stable coin, uh, is so Jake, is it going to be like, um, like, like the curve USD
where it'll be just, I just want to make sure that everybody has it correct here. It's going to be,
uh, like an over collateralized stable coin that will also have sort of a liquidation
algorithm attached to it to help to balance that, that collateral. Uh, yes, uh, I mentioned about
this coin is the same, the CRV USD on the curve finance, but, uh, yes, it's over collateral, um,
for meeting, for meeting the, the coin. Yes. All right. Perfect. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Awesome. Um, yeah, I guess, um, like
the next thing that sort of touches on, on that, and I don't know that you're not, maybe not Thorne
is not an expert, but I'd love to just, um, talk about like the security of oracles. How does
like the oracle process work for Thorne? Is it, is it going to be, um, you know, just an oracle for,
for USDC, USDT stable coin, or will you need more? And then Tyree, I know that a ride chain is doing
some things with oracles and maybe we can integrate you guys as well. Uh, I don't know,
or at least you guys were in the past and I would want to get some thoughts from you as well, uh,
on like what you guys are doing in the oracle space.
Yeah, Jake, I'm going to let you take that first. Jake, talk about how you, um,
you're integrating oracles with, with Thorne.
Okay. So for this one, uh, for the oracle data, so we would like to get the data from, from, from the
supply network and also from other network and collect the data, gather data in order to enable the AI.
So, uh, we find the, you know, um, um, the, the, the, the way to get the data. So oracle is one hour,
the hour, uh, you know, duty in the future. We, we develop in order to enable the AI, but you know, uh,
for example, if we have, uh, a sitting, uh, uh, you know, protocol that provide us, uh, the data, uh,
for us in, uh, in order to get, uh, the real time data from the network and on, on the supply,
we would like to use this one. Yeah. So I think that that's so, so there's sort of the,
there's the two pieces of this, right. Um, I guess first you have to take apart why we primarily rely
on centralized exchanges, which are the most centralized entities in crypto to be able to
provide oracle data for major assets. Right. And, and that's because they're so liquid, uh, and you
want to be able to prevent, uh, manipulation. Uh, and obviously DEX is being far less liquid.
If you use only on chain data, um, there's always a chance that, that those pools are manipulated.
Um, also there are some, you know, more technical issues where people, you know, will, uh, essentially
try to spam, uh, an oracle, uh, to delay its response. Right. Uh, especially in the time of like
high volatility, one such example of this was, I think Venus protocol, uh, a couple of years ago
over on BNB, um, had some people that, you know, engineered some pretty, um, some pretty intense
in tax where they were able to drain many millions of dollars out of those protocols. Right. So
you need to be able to ensure obviously that the, the delivery of these,
this oracle data, uh, is as resistant to, you know, uh, that attack vector as possible. I think
that that's, uh, one huge sort of, uh, piece. And then also that when you're dealing with
that on chain data, uh, that, that you're also, you need to, in your final aggregation of, of the
data, you also need to consider other sources of data, right. Um, oracle's role is not just simply
to like hand off data. It's also to, to aggregate it and to balance it in so that you're getting,
uh, uh, uh, uh, summation of whatever that price point is. And I think that that's sort of one
critical role of, of, um, of the oracle in the space right now. Now on the other side where a
ride chain has really been working is how do you take AI generated output, which is off chain data and
bring that on chain date, uh, and be able to do that in a decentralized way, uh, in a,
as permissionless a way as you can. Uh, and most importantly, doing that with maximum trans,
transparency. And like, why, why would you need to do this? Right. This is a question that we've
been answering since 2020. Well, if you want to take, uh, an off chain signal from AI model to trigger
an on chain action by cell, um, you need a clear and transparent way to be able to take that AI
output and actually deliver it to trigger that automation. Um, and then you have to look at the
ways that it's being done right now. I think that this is a important context for a lot of people.
Um, things like aura protocol there, they're using ZK proofs where all the compute is happening
sort of off chain and there's implicit trust, uh, to actually deliver that. And then you have
something like aura protocol, which is collecting inference and has a very, uh, a very complex system
to weight, uh, the reliability, each of those inference providers to give you a clean, uh, output,
which is sort of your Oracle feed for prediction or, or anything like that. Uh, but what I think
what's really important here, uh, is ultimately the it's alongside of the transparency. You also
have to consider, uh, the cost and the time it takes to return a response from an AI model,
meaning that if you request something, is it going to take, you know, the span of two or three blocks
to get an answer and what has changed in that time, right? So you need to be able to
also have a lean enough models that are transparent and trustworthy in order to directly, uh, be able
to tap them, uh, for, for your output, right. And your Oracle, um, especially in the prediction world.
So this is a, uh, this is a thing that, uh, DeFi lens over on a ride chain team has been working on,
uh, that, uh, a new project called distilled AI that's building on a ride chain right now is
working heavily on. It's, it's all about sort of transferring knowledge from these big models.
Uh, and rather than worrying about real-time consensus between AI models and aggregating that
output, uh, for that on-chain, uh, signal, uh, for, for prediction, uh, being able to say,
we're going to extract value from all of these models and build a open source transparent model
that can then be leveraged to more directly, uh, with more efficiency, provide that, that AI output
on chain. Um, generally I would say that we are as nascent as possible as, as it could be right now
in the AI web three, everybody's, everybody's experimenting, anybody that's promising you
that they have the answer for the future. Uh, they're lying. Um, we're all experimenting right now.
Um, we see a lot of people that are entering the space right now with great ideas. Uh,
but there are also ideas that have been debunked by other projects that have been in the space
longer, right? Um, one of those being us, we look at some things that are, you know,
currently being built and we say, okay, yeah, we've experimented that we tried with that. It doesn't
work in, in production. So eventually I think that the innovation is also, you know, about time and
somewhere in between a completely trustless, you know, Oracle system and you know, um, a very trusted
AI model. Like if you were saying, you know, I'm going to use an open AI API to, to provide me triggers
on, on chain, obviously that would be a, a huge trusted resource, right? Uh, somewhere in between
that we need systems to filter and create transparency for, for the users. And then
ultimately, unlike price feeds that are generalized and, and really applied, uh, at a, at a protocol
level, uh, I think that the addition of AI oracles is really going to be on an individual level. And
it's going to be more like, uh, Jake mentioned with his like AI marketplace with recipes where
people are going to be able to say, here's the thing that worked for me. You can shop for it.
You can pick it up. You can come and choose the AI that works for you or is right for you. But that
risk tolerance is going to be offloaded, not systematically, uh, on the whole protocol and
affect the protocol health, but on the individual, uh, to make their choice and have an option.
Uh, so that's, that's sort of my overall outlook right now.
Awesome. This is why I love talking to you, Tyree. It gives me excitement for, you know,
every time that I think, you know, you know, things are stagnant in this space, it's like,
well, there's a ton of innovation happening and it just gets me so amped and excited.
Um, so I guess with that, we're, you know, we're almost up at the hour mark. That is,
before we closed out, I just wanted to say, uh, to ask, you know, what's, what's next for a ride
chain? I know you just mentioned the, uh, you know, or AI Oracle space. Is there anything else
that you guys are working on right now that we can keep our eye out for, um, in both the Oasis
community and then the ride chain community? Yeah. So I want to, I guess the, the most important
things, you know, we, our roadmap is so dense that if you, you know, you go and look at our
roadmap, it's going to take you like, probably like a good two hours to really consume everything
that we're working on. But, um, the, on the AI front, uh, distilled AI, which is a protocol being
led by, um, the head of a ride chain labs, us Tung Go, um, is, is going to be very exciting. Uh,
that's a focus on model specialization, uh, and personalization, uh, which is entirely focused
on private intelligence. So we'll, I'm going to connect you on a deeper level with Tung.
So you guys can talk about our synergies between, between distilled AI and Oasis on that front.
Um, so that's, that's super exciting to me. Uh, and then, um, personally, I'm currently,
uh, leading up, uh, uh, an interoperability protocol, uh, that is, uh, in collaboration
with proximity labs and near, uh, and also working closely with the interchange foundation,
uh, Adam accelerator, and we're talking to Tom foundation. So we're working on an inter interoperability
protocol, uh, that really is looking to correct the course of, of web three. So let me, let me just
leave it there. But, uh, the, the project is called, uh, thesis, uh, because it is my thesis paper of,
you know, or thesis protocol of everything that I think web three should be, uh, what crypto should
be and what the future of financial autonomy looks like. Um, and that, that's sort of, that's sort of
that. And, um, broadly on the interoperability front, you know, a ride chain has been rolling out,
uh, uh, the ride chain labs has been rolling out a lot of, um, a lot of really great work on that
front. We built the first IBC implementation for ton, uh, which is, um, very difficult and took a long
time, but, uh, it allows for trustless asset transfers between, uh, between the open network
and the inter chain. Uh, currently you can have one click deposits from the, the open network from ton
over to a ride chain or osmosis. And soon that's going to be over on neutron and the atom economic
zone as well. Um, we're also talking to a bunch of teams on the, uh, inter chain, I IBC cosmos,
whatever you want to call it, uh, that side as well to bring, uh, some of these assets over to the ton
ecosystem. Um, so that's really exciting to me. Uh, it's a huge thing for the cosmos ecosystem because,
uh, obviously the user base on ton is fantastic. They're huge. They're excited. They love crypto.
They're not as jaded as we are over in the cosmos ecosystem, right? Uh, they haven't gone through
sort of the governance battles and the wars and all of these different things. And, uh,
they didn't have to deal with the terror collapse and the impact that had, right? So all of us
were very excited to sort of be able to talk to a fresh audience and to have our assets available
in a fresh user base and connecting that all in a way where there's a lot of benefits that go in
both directions. You get access to some of the best builders in crypto, uh, that are in the,
in the cosmos ecosystem. Um, in my opinion, I mean, the, the brain trust of crypto is like over here.
Uh, and then, you know, and then you also have a lot of, you know, audience over on ton, which right
now the focus on ton is very heavily on sort of game fine things, um, as being sort of the primary
attraction, but eventually there's going to be a maturity level that reaches where people
are going to be tired of gambling and losing. Right. And they will want to start, uh, parking
their funds in, uh, more safe, uh, yield bearing assets. And I do think that a lot of these cosmos
chains will be the place where that, that really becomes relevant. So, um,
um, that that's all a mouthful, uh, really excited on getting every builder on Oasis to use a wallet.
Uh, that's, that's huge. Um, you know, and, and again, a huge thank you, uh, to Jake and
Thorne protocol for, for taking the first step, uh, and being the first protocol over on Oasis,
um, to, to integrate a wallet. Uh, I want to emphasize again that mobile,
um, having a mobile first outlook as a founder is, is very important. Uh, we can't rely on people
being stuck in their computers. People want to be able to make transactions on the go.
They want to be able to, you know, move in and out of positions on the go. They want to be able to
collect their yield on the go. Um, and if you're not building something that's very mobile friendly,
uh, it becomes difficult. And obviously MetaMask is, is great. Um, you know, I'm not gonna,
I'm not gonna hate on MetaMask, uh, but being able to have access and support for both the consensus
layer and Sapphire, um, is really important for us and being able to hopefully, if you guys put
enough pressure on will, they'll integrate, uh, a wallet into the bridge over there so that you
guys get a very smooth experience, uh, being able to deposit and withdraw funds from consensus
over to, to Sapphire. Um, but we're also looking into different ways to achieve that. So, uh,
that's all a mouthful. Huge thank you, Will, for having me and, and Jake, I'm really excited
about everything you're doing. If you guys aren't following Thorn Protocol, definitely double click,
you know, and, and get involved and start following their social channels. It's going to
be very exciting and, uh, a huge anchor for the Oasis ecosystem. Thank you. Thank you.
I couldn't agree more, uh, Tyree. Uh, and you, you, you know, you don't have to convince me to,
to get that integration. You know, I'll be, I'll be, uh, working on it as much as I can. Um,
and, you know, I know you mentioned the, uh, you know, developers, but I just encourage
every user as well. Um, it's in my opinion, the, probably the cleanest UX you're going to have
with interacting with the ecosystem. Um, just having that sort of comprehensive view of what's
happening on your consensus side, what's happening on your, uh, Sapphire side, and then
being able to integrate dApps. And, uh, we're already talking to more dApps about integrating
the O wallet. So, uh, yeah, just, I couldn't, couldn't encourage you guys more. Um, that being
said, I do want to give Jake a chance to just say what's coming up for Thorn. Do you guys have a
launch date yet? Um, or where can people follow? Thank you. Thank you for, for everyone to, uh,
having him having me today. And I would love to have more time to discuss about the Thorn protocol,
about the landing prone, about the, the, uh, down model and so on in the future with you. And, uh,
we have a plan in the future for the Thorn protocol. It's, uh, we would like to, you know, launch our token
and, uh, yeah, so, uh, keep to, uh, uh, in, keep in talk with us and update any, anything from our,
our channel, social channel to get your, uh, information about our launch. Thank you.
Yeah. Yeah. Thorn has a telegram. I think you can find it right on their Twitter. Yeah. Um,
in their, in their link. Um, yeah. Just join their, their telegram. And, uh, I think you guys can have
some great discussions about what's coming next. Um, you know, what, what plans for their launches,
what the plan of their token launches. And of course, Oasis will be, uh, sharing that news,
um, as well. So anyway, thanks so much, everybody. Thanks for coming today. Uh, I hope it was
enlightening. Um, and I, all I can say is just thank you to our guests. Uh, it's been a really
exciting conversation and I can't wait to, to get Thorn online on Oasis. Uh, hope everybody has a great
day and talk to you all soon. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
Host
Oasis
from
Oasis Network
