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Opepen Space
Recorded: Aug. 29, 2025 Duration: 1:25:40Space Recording
Full Transcription
The End Thank you. Music Hello? Can you hear me
hello thumbs up if you can hear me
oh no
all right good all right thank you everybody i am uh i'm hosting for continuity
purposes this week our regular three hosts are all unavailable enjoying their labor day activities
with their families um thanks everybody for tuning in and
I don't have a
I don't have a specific
agenda here for a runner
AMA free for all
come up and speak ask questions
make statements etc
so hit a request
and we'll keep it
nice and short but
thanks everybody for coming
we approve a few
here i'm low how are you mate excellent
jules how you doing doing good look at you holding it down on a friday when the team can't come you love to see it
no i mean this is uh it's a real skill man hosting these every week and uh ushering along the the
free form conversation.
Not something I have much practice doing,
but we can't let the two-year streak die.
Oh my God, the worst.
No, you got this.
You're linguistically gifted.
Yeah, thank you, man.
What have you been doing?
I'm good, man, I'm good.
I'm clacking away, you know?
Always just hammering away at the keyboard,
trying to make something happen.
Learning from you, studying your tweets,
and mostly doing the opposite,
even though I know better.
You're doing fantastic.
Hey, that thing that we talked about last time I saw you,
is that a public thing or not?
What are we...
Oh, I don't know what we talked about last time.
Well, how am I going to reference it without giving the game away better not better not all right there's some
alpha there um i don't know i can't remember we've talked about a lot of things man go ahead maybe
it's fine some of you some of you were working on with some collaborators oh and a different medium in a different medium oh long way to go
yeah that's tied to the chest still but yeah uh mongey and i are are cracking away oh cool
on that thing still but uh man i've been really studying opepe and i've i've kind of i think i
picked up a few trademarks and i ended up in the maxi chats and such a such an incredible group of collectors and
i'm loving the opt-in structure like it's just so amazing man i i know i give you your flowers all
the time but i think um you could change one thing about what was built and how you built it
what would it what would the change and i know you've iterated on it a few times but like you know it was it was built on the on the back half of you know a fuck ton of open mints so
just kind of curious there it's a good question it's a good question i feel like
the my initial response would be no just because it's like uh bit by bit and iterative and it never really uh never really was one single decision but i think
maybe there was a couple versions of it that we could have waited on shipping i think where we
arrived now we were so close to it that you know maybe it would have taken maybe it takes like
going too far in the opposite direction to arrive back but i think uh
we were so close with the second version and we're like back at it with the fourth
but um anything to change maybe some of the stuff we implemented on the social side
recently like in the last six months or so we we like having, if we had that earlier on when people were,
there was just more, um, surface area of people participating. I think I still attribute that
like quiet time in the beginning of 2023 to people understanding this and, and sort of
being able to communicate how it works to other people still so everything i think
will come down to like either having those um those things that broadcast the activity onto
social earlier or maybe just better explanations which is something that we will constantly be
working on and i see that as like this double-edged sword a little bit where the fact that it's it is
we always argue about this like it is really simple but you know when you're actually trying
to explain the mechanics of it you kind of sound like a lunatic but it's not that crazy of a
complex idea i think we still have a ways to go though in terms of like making a few assets that make it like
abundantly obvious how to interact with it as a an artist and a collector. How do you this is one
thing that I really admire about you is like your ability to kind of forfeit the final result to the
network and and like as a control freak myself it's like like i get it like you you as jack
contribute opepen sets but like the the opepen project is kind of you and julio's big art project
but like how how is that you know and there's no straight answer but how the hell do you go about
that like you might have an artist submit a set that's just you cringe or just like how is that a part of my like how do
you uh how do you open yourself up to that um and sleep at night well you know i think is interesting
i think it is a i think it does come down to like what part of the idea you believe in the most
and the idea that the canvas or the network makes it possible for people to contribute permissionlessly is a massively important and like defining characteristic of the collection. history where that like push and pull and the tug of like manually approving things and gatekeeping
things was like that was that had its own trade-offs to such an extent that it almost feels
like a relief to have it defined in a way where the network decides at a certain point and i think
there's also like this bootstrapping phase to get there, right? I think if you'd have come out of the gate
with that, if it wasn't an open addition, if you didn't like retroactively apply these
rarity brackets to it, there's some parallels with like how networks slowly decentralize
themselves. It's like you need some critical mass of people who
either understand it have a stake in it have a certain level of taste and then they effectively
like those values propagate in a way where you're confident that the
not necessarily the stuff that you don't resonate with like aesthetically makes it in
but the network is like protected by enough people now i think that the justification for something
getting in is still pretty high and even if i personally don't resonate with it visually like
there's always a great story about why or how it came to be part of the collection.
And I think we'll also, you know, try to capture this in the summary of the whole project,
this idea of consensus being temporary. It's like the fluctuation in how easy or difficult it is to
get into the collection at any given time is also part of the commentary of the project itself does that make sense
totally yeah yeah and i think what i'm reading at is like the project at large is the is you know
your art and i it's just an amazing it's just an amazing way to to approach it and to look at it um
to approach it and to look at it.
I would even redefine it as
the protocol is as much
of the art as the constraint or the visual
components of it.
I guess that's a really huge constraint
in traditional art too,
is like the amount of,
it's maybe cliche to say gatekeeping,
but it's like the,
the idea that this stuff is being reviewed by very few people or these network
effects exist in such a different way in the
traditional art world it's like there's some uh aspirational commentary there too where it's like
this is kind of a this is not a free-for-all because there are people that have um you know
spent enormous amounts of time and money to maintain the network and that it's like
this governance mechanism and you've we've seen in crypto thousands and thousands of attempts at like
dows and how do you organize around an idea uh how do you um coordinate and and get a group to
act in accordance with like everyone's best interests and i think
you know what a lot of what that depends on or executing that well depends on like really
narrowing down what the objective is and this i think is a good example of that where it's like
our objective is to build this collection of 200 sets of artwork based on this silhouette. It's not, let's find a way to spend this money on something,
or, you know, let's develop a product that we don't know who it serves or what it's for.
So I feel like, you know, as, and maybe this is not,
this is not something that's proven or disproven by getting to 200 sets.
It should reflect that at all times in all states, right?
When it's quiet, there's nothing going on.
That's reflective of the fact that there's less people engaged.
But when attention returns,
I know Pepin set becomes this interesting way to get attention and contribute to this little ecosystem,
it's reflexive over a long period of time as well.
How many sets are you guys at now?
78 or 79, I think.
78, I think.
Do you have a token from each set?
Not to put you on blast, but...
I can't afford them.
Yeah, tough goes it.
Do you see...
Okay, so you're at 78.
You're almost at the halfway mark.
Is there ever a...
Does Opep Pen ever get decentralized enough
where you don't have to hop up on a Friday's face and the ecosystem runs itself?
I mean, outside of like server costs for the site.
It has done.
Yeah. You feel that it's all the way there, huh?
A hundred percent. Yeah, I believe that. Yeah, I think there's obviously I think distribution stuff is, is the, is the interesting challenge, but I still think the original thesis that we had where, you know, if you do something based on this constraint versus, um, uh, versus just posting something that's very specific to your practice, this can be like a way to tap into network effects that you otherwise may not have access to.
I think there's been some good proof that that's been the case in a lot of cases.
And that's hopefully as it fills out and as it gets more difficult, that is the tension in there too, right?
It's like, is the incentive better to participate right it's like is the incentive better to participate
when it's easy to get in or harder and i think there's like a nice uh there's a nice tension in
there that again just responds to what's going in going on at any given time and weirdly if you if
you actually um do the math on how often a set is released i believe it's like hovering around like every
11 or 12 days but when you're in these longer periods where there's not a lot going on
you would assume you know you're waiting months and months between these things happening but
it's not linear at all there's alpha there right everyone's rushing to go make a meme but really
you know go look at opet pens yeah yeah i agree man i'm gonna i see you feeling
crazy's hands so i just asked i wanted to jump on i didn't want you to solo up here although i'm sure
that wouldn't have been the case you kind of always jump into these things and figure it out so like
were you that kid that like just you know jumped off the cliff before checking for rocks below or
the current in the river like has this always been your mo as a human like fuck it let me let me dive off the deep end and i'll learn to swim
i don't know actually it's a good question i wouldn't say i would as a particularly like
risk tolerant child maybe it's like professional experience that's been more
influential on that where it's like you have a day to change this
thing that you know everyone thought is shit you have like these these these like
marketing advertising product environments we literally have to respond in real time to
whoever you're producing it for and what they're telling you. And I think that is one of the things I really love
and try and communicate about this canvas
and this specific set of technologies.
It's like you have this ability to iterate on the things
that you've put out into the world
and sort of involve your earlier
work in your later work in a way that hasn't been possible or wouldn't be possible if you're like
shipping out pieces of paper or objects or frames that that like network quality of it gives you
this like it's like i think it's miles davis quote it's like the the when you're playing jazz the thing that matters is the next note you hit and like because these things are alive and there's this ownership component
to them you can have um it kind of it for me at least it sort of keeps the loop going in my head
like oh what's the next thing what how can you like continue this relationship between you and the person that
owns the thing the thing itself and um what i think once you've you have to sort of experience
that a couple of times for it to be the case and i didn't really have that experience when i first
started minting stuff but when you get into any kind of scale even past like even past a couple dozen objects
when they like have a relationship to each other i think that it's almost the opposite of
how it's being described too you know where people like oh it's risky to put the thing out and then
figure it out versus like oh no the ability for you to constantly iterate and stay in touch with the people who like care
about what you're doing is is minimizing risk in a lot of ways because you have infinite attempts
and iterations to make the thing more interesting better etc etc what i last thing and then i
promise i'll jump down,
because there's a lot of talk about networked art,
you know, the art being the network, and I'm, you know, again, always observing,
learning, studying, even just the tweets.
So I guess my question here is, like,
at what point does, at what point is that true?
How many nodes until that becomes true?
Is it, you know,
is it true of a collection of three and it's just a small network, but when do you really hit that
network effect like you've done or the memes have done or, you know, I guess some of the
more bigger artists have done? At what point do you think that that velocity hits?
It's good. I think like by definition, it's like two or three. The idea that like, oh no, three is maybe the number, right?
Where you have, it's when it becomes like dynamic beyond the relationship between two people.
Where say you make one piece of art and someone collects it, you have a relationship with them.
Even another piece of art in that collection is you plus collector plus other
collector which creates two new relationships it's like the you know when you have one when
you have two kids there's one relationship when you have three kids there's what is there four
five yeah not yet but that but like the complexity of a network and the, and the, um, the, like the,
what's the word I'm looking for? Like the density is not a linear thing. Like every single person,
that's like, uh, the old diagram that explains telephone networks and like the value of network
effects in themselves is like, you really underestimate the value of like one additional node quote unquote that enriches the experience
of everybody else that participates like this chat is a good example there's like a few dozen
people that have consistently contributed and shown up to this every single week even when
there's nothing going on and added massive amount of value to people who were like just uh watching or participating at
a different level so i feel like i don't know if there's a perfect answer obviously the well it's
all network it's all network art i guess it's just yeah at what point we as a collective say
oh this is network but really you know a collection of three or five is and you can find a cozy network somewhere okay yeah and i think and i think well i think memes and um oh pepon maybe the
the not necessarily the differentiator but the the like accelerant of the network effect is like
how do you get people who have networks to contribute to this network and you
know there has to be a benefit that runs in both directions to encourage that and a constraint or
something that um makes it understandable how to participate is uh is an important thing like the memes you could argue that the memes the
constraint is literally the um like the addition size or i think it was theme at the beginning
if we get my my understanding of it is not only to begin right like you have to yeah
but sorry go ahead no no and i say like the the the more robust the network gets, maybe the less constrained the rules of participation need to be.
That is reasonably unique to this.
the test that's impossible is reasonably to compare it to like how the musicians
distribution go and like feature you know do a verse on somebody else's track that has maybe
some overlapping audience it's all very similar mechanics and dynamics as uh other creative
collaborations but this medium is just like kind of makes it way higher fidelity and easier to connect with
the people that are interested in collecting the stuff.
Hell yeah. Well, thanks for the quick chat. I'm going to jump down.
Mate, thank you. You saved my very awkward and cold opening there. So thank you very much.
I've got 130 sets to get in there. So I better get to work and have a good three day weekend
if you get one. Mate as well thank you mate bye bye
all right felix if you're still there yo what's up yeah i just raised the hand for the snapshot but
i wasn't even in the right hand corner so it's actually a window well yeah how are you doing um i was going to see okay this is
completely unrelated we don't have to talk but i i do want to know though are you going to see
oasis because they're coming to uh the uh the us i got one in i got one in uh i had to go back i
had to go i had to go back for um a meeting in july I saw one of the Wembley dates.
Insane.
Wow.
Yeah, man, right?
It's a life-changing experience.
Very good, man.
All of the...
Well, the main criticism was that Liam wasn't going to have the vocals for it,
especially halfway in, but I think
that's been dispelled, man. It was incredible. Just unbelievable to think that you could fill
two hours with 110,000 people singing every word to every song. I feel like that's going to be a
hard one to top, at least in my personal experience, like music that I am personally
interested in listening to. I don't think that's happening again but maybe i'll try and get in a stateside gig in
as well i think they just started didn't they yeah yeah yeah a friend of mine's gonna see them in new
york man like honestly i i want to see them again like um i'm hooked now i'm like really hooked so
yeah you know it's i'm sure i'm sure they're gonna keep keep uh keep it running
yeah yeah i mean that's probably their uh retirement too in a way hey
what was it like 1 billion in revenue or something um and on average people spend about 700 pounds
everything included like unbelievable man unbelievable, man. Yeah.
Increase in GDP right there.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's pretty insane.
I had a good time in the UK, though.
I was there for like 10 days
or something, you know, Bristol
and then went up to Manchester.
Man, it's a beautiful
part of England.
I haven't checked it out before and I was very surprised I really like Bristol to be honest it's down the road where I
grew up yeah exactly yeah it's amazing so somebody you've been back home then
yeah I went for a quick trip see the family and do um yeah i had to go to asprey for that
sculpture a couple weeks ago oh yeah yeah line up so that worked out good true you have connections
in london anyways yeah so how was it like was it inspirational going back or was it more stressful
like kind of fitting everyone in and seeing everyone or did you have some i don't know time to soak in you know
it was a quick trip but it was it was good i just um my um yeah i saw my parents for a couple days
and um got that got that wembley trip in did some work and then straight back so i i was like
i don't know i was like three or four days i think in the end it was pretty swift long flight for three days but
it was definitely worth it yeah man yeah i mean people came from all over the world just to see
uases right so uh yeah just for that would have been uh would have been always worth the trip i It was. Yeah, really cool.
Anyways, I haven't really been tapped in, to be honest.
I've been kind of, you know, doing other stuff.
I haven't been following your pep in that much.
I haven't been on Spaces for, you know, for a bit.
Sometimes I like had the time to hop in, but yeah, it's just nice to see how consistent everything is just going like in,
you know, in a space like this, which it's,
it's so funny too, because it kind of feels like,
it kind of feels like a bear market, but Bitcoin is at a hundred K.
It's bizarre, but, but still uh i'm you know i'm still i still i'm still on a
submit that up happen set eventually but um well you've got a couple in there haven't you
we'll see i've got two yeah i've got two in there but um yeah gotta gotta throw in the third one
and maybe that's gonna make it love it love it well it's good to chat mate glad you're doing well
yeah likewise thank you man all right who's it win yo og's here for win who's nice you go ahead
wins next okay hey jack how's it going good man how are? Good. I just wanted to kind of ask a couple of questions about OPEP.
In one of the previous versions of the site, one of the one of the I think one of the most amazing parts of the protocol was the swipe right, swipe left vote.
okay and so i i had a question for you about uh maybe an idea of producing some some sets from
that um and so i just wanted to kind of talk through my idea with you just real quick
if you know have you ever thought about taking like a let's say you you you have that that setup
where you you could go in and you could vote on
endless Opepins from different people you know I think that's the way it was set up it was just
like it was totally random revolving yeah revolving door of yes no you get to choose
have you ever thought about like um seeing if that could produce a mixed set. Like, let's say you take the top 80 voted Opepins
and you book them into a single set of 80.
And while I know Jalil might have a heart attack
because they're not all correlated with each other through the set,
but it may be a really interesting way to do a few things. I'll lay them out. One, you get variety
within not only the set, but also within the marketplace. A lot of times you go onto the
marketplace to look at Opepins, and usually there's bulk OPEPins that are all, you know, you know, the same at the you know.
And and so I think as you look at the marketplace, if you had, you know, five or six of these mixed sets where maybe you had 80 different, you know, approved, voted on meeting a certain threshold.
You know, maybe that could produce a little bit of mixture set you know you still have
the consensus mechanism where you feel like people are you know creating the demand by the vote
but but you can knock out a couple of sets you know just by fulfilling that demand and you would
also encourage more mixture of artists within the collection.
So I just wanted to like,
see if that has ever crossed your mind about maybe how to incorporate that
back into, you know, it's kind of like the top shot days.
We had the mixed, mixed pads, right. And, um, you know,
I just kind of, that was just an idea I had.
So I just wanted to ask you that while I had the chance.
Yeah, I think, I think there's, you're right.
That there was something interesting about that mechanism for sorting and filtering.
And actually one of our, one of the things I think that went maybe under commuted,
communicated by us on that, or, I don't know, maybe there was a a there was a good amount of understanding but we had this
back-end panel where you as the artist could see the feedback on your pieces so you could you know
throw in 20 single pieces and then very quickly get a sense of like what is resonating and be
stack ranked in the dashboard i think i'm definitely not opposed to like any kind of
novel set organization principle one my immediate question would be like the attribution
and i think we kind of solved that in uh zupepper and you know we have these multiple
pieces but i do i think you raise a good point about that swipe mechanism being a
um just being a good mechanism for getting this this uh crowdsourced feedback that isn't well
is subjective but it's but it has like some uh numeric quality to it so yeah we'll we'll think about how we can use it. And we've also thought about like,
imagine just like a really high volume collection
where say you had a generative art algorithm
that can make infinite outputs
and you generate 10,000 of them
and then you let the consensus mechanism run on those 10,000
outputs and then you rank the pieces in order of their popularity in that sorting mechanism and
that's like we did sort of a proof of concept of that I think it was set 27 and I wasn't 27 37
maybe with the tiles the sort by most popular that takes that exact idea
where these are like literal references to like product skews and the the highest ranked one is
the first edition and the four the second highest is the fourth etc etc so we have it all built so
maybe there is an elegant way for us to bring it back or do something
novel on a one-off basis with it.
So I appreciate you sharing.
Cheers.
Have a good weekend.
You as well, mate.
Did I see who was up?
Hey, brother.
I just wanted to um get your take the word networked artist thrown around a lot
and i know you and i discuss a variety of kind of things about networks how do you what do you
think defines network art and what do you think creates a sustainable network in this space?
I think,
so I think we covered a little bit of it with what Jules pried earlier,
which was this idea of like,
at what point does a collection become a network? And like,
by definition it's three,
but in my mind,
I think the,
maybe the real quality of it is like the idea that the network
participants are building and growing and contributing to the thing without the needed
oversight of the first, second, third contributors. Does that make sense where like i i had this piece a while ago that was like
uh this little manifesto that was about and like being an antenna so like receiving a signal and
like transmitting a signal and then the idea of a piece of work being finished when it replicates
by itself and i i think that that's like the, the really basic definition of that is like,
will people share it?
And is it something that people want to amplify?
But then like the layers beneath that are like, do people want to explain the mechanism?
Do people want to like recruit participants to contribute to and grow the network?
And I think you could just like lay just lay over different versions of network art.
There are some punks or a lot of larger X-Copy collections, for example.
It's like they are networked art because the market has deemed them as valuable
and appreciates some of their qualities and their networks form around people appreciating
that and then there's like the other definition is like is the network itself like collaborating
reorganizing you know like affecting the outcome of the art in some way that isn't just um like
consensus around how valuable it is and to me to me, they both sort of fit the description,
but like the really, you know,
taking that to its logical extreme,
it's like the stuff that you're actually trying to encourage
is way more about like what other connections
that are happening between the people
that weren't the first contributors
versus, you know, making an image popular, for example.
Yeah. How about one of the things i focus on lately is just like these large networks like yours or osf or 6529 and others
punks like you said um where because our digital identity now like all day we spend from the minute
we wake up to the end of the day online like like a lot of us, you know, and our friends come from this.
One of the aspects that I think about networks and what creates a powerful one is like your digital, your identity is tied to the network.
So I know that's separate from the art, but I think one of the things, all those communities, the first three, like all have elements of them that bring people back in a non-gimmicky way
you show up and then as you progress through the ecosystem you earn more like recognition
or whatever based on you know how you supported the project and so on so do you ever think of
that aspect like as opposed to just the art itself being you know how do you think about that bud well i don't think i can't hear you yeah i can't hear me either
jack we can't hear you brother something that never changes like if you go and watch them
every week play a different team and you like see where they
are in the league and which players they're buying and selling and and to create like a vibrant
community and network around something that is static is much harder um so yeah i think like
the the idea of like re-engagement is almost uh you know not exclusive
to this whatsoever it's like is there an idea or a story or something that has things happening
within it or like different characters coming and going that makes me want to watch it and
participate in it and this these uh these tools, like allow you to do that at like a much higher
fidelity than, or not even necessarily higher fidelity, but like without permission globally,
like with these objects that can move around on computers versus, you know, I don't know,
people that collect certain objects in the real world or card you know car communities things
like that but where you just have to if you have baked into the protocol or the the project itself
like these things that are going to happen or things that need to happen for it to stay alive
i think that get done right you obviously if the design constraints are good that keeps people
coming back and interested yeah and i think where
i guess i think it's amplified here massively again just like with the digital it's like i think the
difference there is you have events and you wear shirts and merch and you talk about the thing here
your entire day for many of us is shaped around the communities you participate in so i think
that's a massive amplifier because it becomes your like
not just like hey here's my community
it's like here's literally like from the minute I wake up
where I am you know interacting
anyway I appreciate that perspective
but it's obviously
super helpful to hear
thank you mate
thanks
Shrimp are you there?
I am.
OG never showed up as a speaker for me,
so it's like he's just haunting me everywhere I go.
How are you? All-nighter, was it?
Yep, yep.
Been shmainting all night.
Got a good list ready to go out.
But couldn't resist a good Opep and space.
I am, I think, current front leader or front runner in opt-ins,
Finch and I's second set.
So anybody looking for a good set to opt into?
Top of the charts.
Good plug.
How is the Schmates distribution?
Where are you at with it?
38% left in my wallet.
Unique holders is it like 54 so probably gonna pass up board apes and
pudgies the next couple days on that one which is fun very nice what's your uh what's your
administrative stack for keeping track of this on the on the distribution side i mean like you got
a big google doc or how are you doing that? Twitter and OpenSea.
Just going straight.
Just going one-to-one.
Finish the conversation and send it.
Yeah.
Well, finish the conversation.
I have my wallets and everything, you know, pretty gapped from my socials.
So I have to gather all the data and then email it to myself.
Then I kind of accumulate it all in the email file until i have enough to
sit down and send out a bunch at once which is usually when i do the like deploying more
shmains nice oh when you're doing a batch a batch uh distribution yeah yeah that's usually a batch
going out i've done that enough times with very small uh groups of tokens and it is always uh
very small uh groups of tokens and it is always uh is way more mentally taxing than you do you
think it's going to be yeah yeah it really is i think all told this is going to be like
two months of 12 hour days you know part of it i've kind of picked a lot of the low-hanging fruit
at this point but i don't want to lower the bar because that's kind of the point is i want to have
to reach into a bunch of these like siloed communities to find people and drag them all to one place uh yeah it's good so it's a fun challenge
i think um i think the i think the methodology will be copied as like i wouldn't say obvious
as it is but as like uh it uh, it's like, um,
I don't know. It's kind of the, this interesting barbell, uh,
combination, right? It's like, you have these,
these things that are, uh, infinitely creatable or reproducible and then you distribute them in the most like hands-on
unscalable way possible.
Very cool.
Yeah, unscalable is definitely the word for it.
Yeah, I've kind of thought about how you could bring AI into it,
but I feel like if you bring AI into much of the process at all,
you kind of taint it, right?
I think part of why people enjoy it so much is they've just gotten so used to everything being automated
or permissionless or trustless.
So yeah, it's been a lot of fun and and yeah surprising result because i think you you know you uh don't tell og but uh you were actually
i can hear you first distribute oh shit oh shit he's still here oh shit no um uh i finished sending
heaton his nine uh at the very beginning of the distribution, because
he's my old largest collector by an order of magnitude.
Yeah.
And so I let him pick a state and he picked a California.
And then I went to send out the very next one, which was your London, and I sent it
to Heaton.
So I picked up the very first one in the entire distribution.
That's law right there.
V1 Schmeins.
But then you sent me instead, right?
I got the first. He sent you instead instead right i got the first he sent you instead
so you got the first yeah yeah you got him you got him love it man a lot of fun and and i was
just going to say for anyone who who missed the um the set you have staged at the top end. Can you give a quick overview of the contents of that?
Yeah, so it's Bob Mallory's work from the
first half of his career in digital, so 1980 and
earlier, as well as the
huge monumental mural piece that sort of set him
on the path to being poisoned and forced to switch to digital art in the first place.
So it's sort of the catalyst of his switch to digital,
which is this huge, incredible mural in Beverly Hills that was thought to have been destroyed in the 90s,
but they just found it behind a false wall a couple years ago, strangely enough.
And we actually didn't find out about it for like a year because they spelled
mallory's name wrong and all the press but that's the one of one is derived from that that mural we
found uh that was was recovered uh and yeah it's a it's a fun set i mean we had one set previously
go through with all of his like post 80s work uh which is cool stuff and really like you know
vibrant and beautiful work but the earlier stuff is kind of dear to me
just because where it sits in computer art history and stuff like that.
One of the sets included is Shape 3D,
which is sort of the first generative series that depicts an object.
Generative stuff before that's always pretty purely abstract,
whereas Shape is a bunch of shapes that have occlusion too.
I mean, in a time when doing occlusion of three-dimensional forms was non-trivial.
And so a lot of his more foundational stuff is in this set.
So I think OG is one of my biggest opt-ins.
So I'm glad I sent him the first.
That's why I sent him the first that's why i sent him
the first exactly yeah it was for opt-in incentives rule everything yeah very cool i think uh like
another cool thing about this bro always first yeah the first one going through is like the
talked about this really early on it's like is there a um is there an interesting way for bodies of work that are complete or you know
artists that are no longer practicing to contribute to this or like have some of their work reflected
in the opap collection so this is that was like broke the seal on that uh type of um that type of
collaboration so uh very cool yeah when davinci said actually exactly exactly
actually there is one there is one yeah i was gonna say yeah gls uh what set is that the
i forget the name of it the uh devin devino pepon maybe something like that
i was thinking of b triple eights
uh oh that's that's true he's got that da vinci in there for sure at least one that's true let me
let me look this up though that because the um it was a really early one divina proportion
study the science of art and the art of science that's the um the geom the the geometric forms that DaVinci used early on
across the different edition sizes.
That's a classic.
August 26, 2023.
What's that?
That's almost two years to the day that was out.
Oh, an early one.
An early one, yeah.
Yeah.
Very cool.
Well, thank you, Shrimp.
Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks, Shrimp.
All right.
Emla, you get knocked off earlier yeah
just wanted to say first off
love this set
by Mallory and I think it's definitely
very cool to figure out
ways to collaborate with
artists that are no longer with us
any way that like we can
incorporate that into a pep is is really cool
because it's kind of like taking the past and bringing it to the present and to the future
yeah i think there's some uh we have to maybe figure out how to talk to these foundations and
figure out how to make that interesting or worthwhile for them maybe there's a
we thought about this over the years but like some um
some sort of concurrent revenue generating exercise alongside a set you know like maybe
there's an open edition that runs alongside a set submission for you know a particularly notable
artist foundation that could you know could be donated in full but there's there's a couple um
foundation that could you know could be donated in full but there's there's a couple um we just
need some just need some inroads into some of those uh people that make decisions around that
stuff i think it's it's largely very uh very long process to associate oneself with this uh with
this world uh cohen and sherry estates would be my best bet if you
were going to try to get anybody else from that world uh through they're both uh pretty active
looking to get eyes on them and uh unlike like the molnar estate is a little bit of this right now
uh and so you know those are two that are active and out there
and looking to do stuff.
So, you know, if you were going to hit anybody,
that would probably be the short list.
All right, all right.
Thank you, I will.
All right.
Matt, I'm adding you up.
All right.
I'll go another 10 minutes or so if anyone wants to come up and chat,
or we can have a Labor Day special short edition here.
Justin, you've been up.
Hey, how's it going?
Good, man. How are you?
Pretty good.
So I have a question for you, something I've been curious about, sort of a philosophical question across your network-centric art or work.
When you're trying to make something that you want to push the culture forward,
but it's something that's so closely tied to the culture itself like the memes
things like that how do you prevent it from becoming like a self-eating snake or an ouroborist
type situation you know like how do you keep your projects like fresh and vibrant and alive when its
interaction with the culture can be so self-referential?
If I understand the question, I think it's like, the first thing that popped in my head
is like articulate the ideas yourself.
So whether that's like writing or video or talking or whatever the like your preferred medium for communicating
the like substance or the meaning behind the stuff is like having control of that i feel like is a
it's this is like that's like a chicken and egg type scenario right it's like people
either uh sort of read that meaning themselves and there will always be like misinterpretation
of your work i think and there'll be be like misinterpretation of your work i
think and there'll be people who are interested enough to read about it and people who aren't
and then maybe on the like the mechanical part of that question it's like some i think you can
maybe the design of the mechanism itself, sometimes you have no control over that by design.
And that would be another thing that would be
a decision that you make, right?
I think Opepun specifically is like,
it has a constraint,
but it can be manipulated in ways that we could never foresee
versus something like checks
where maybe the
meaning of that could be misconstrued but the output and the you know the artifacts that
represent all the interactions with the collection can't be um can't be manipulated beyond the
constraints that have already been set so i guess the short answer is like try and try and like create uh media that describes
your intention in a way that can't be misinterpreted does that make sense yeah very interesting thank
i've met yeah sorry I have a... Matt, yeah, sorry.
No, you can go, brother. I'll hop on after you.
Sugar first, okay.
Well, it's kind of an... It's not really
well-educated thought yet, but like
I was thinking, you know,
the more traditional art world
relies a lot on, or like, let's say
maybe the success of art world relies a lot on or like let's say maybe the success of
an artist um rise more on like the like let's say the gallery um they're being represented by
but then the people working for that gallery and their network um and how you know these people
interact with the network they have like the address book, that makes things happen in the background
and pushes a certain narrative and ultimately maybe makes bigger collectors interested in
buying it. Whereas what we have here in Web3 is very decentralized, obviously, and it's
kind of in our own hands. I mean, you've reached out and have connections and in the physical, more traditional, more traditional, um, as well.
But like, I feel like this, like physical component of like, um, and that's where I'm
like kind of struggling right now to formulate it.
But like, I think that the biggest potential, and that's something that's not really seen
from the outside is the, you you know the decentralized networks that we built
and um and i think we haven't really figured it out yet but like there's so much potential that
we could potentially leverage through then you know more in-person encounters like for example
you know the pep and meet up in charleston at the people event that like that open up doors this is where the real opportunities come uh and happen right and i think what patchy is doing is
something similar where it's like they're really leveraging and incentivizing through like purely
like physical you know like basically bridging the digital network into the physical world and
then expanding it and um and the ties are much much stronger it feels at least to me
where you know because we don't rely on a lot of like maybe external or like third parties it's
like we build it ourselves in a way if that makes sense yeah i think so but i think it's also sort
of certain collections or projects or um ideas start with that in mind or, or have like, uh,
an approach that is like an artist that has to put their work into physical space for it to make
sense or a brand that makes toys that you can interact with.
I agree that there's a massive amount of value to getting people together in person.
But I think I index a little bit too far,
maybe on the other side of this,
where if you can build a network of people
that appreciate something and contribute to something
without needing to,
not saying that there's no value in connecting them physically but there's that's kind of a like a massively interesting
stress test in my mind where like it can function independent of physical space and then like any
kind of physical space added on to that is a is a plus not a like a point of failure so i also like just anecdotally
the i've used this i've i've told this story a bunch of times now but i did i went to this like
art fair in um queens when i was really early starting out with visualized value i got this
like what in hindsight was this spam message basically to get me to sell tickets for an art fair.
It was like, Hey, we've select, we've hand selected you to be part of this exhibition
in Queens and you only have to sell 50 tickets.
And, you know, I, um, I remember setting up in there and having like four or five pieces
of my work that were originally these illustrations I posted
on Instagram and Twitter. And just the sort of the discrepancy between people being introduced
to it digitally and then showing up versus like encountering it physically and then showing up
was so vast that like, I still personally believe in like the amount of context you can deliver digitally.
If you make something that people care about is, is way denser and far superior to physical
space a lot of the time.
And there will be exceptions to the rule and there'll be stuff that's built like physical
first and then goes digital.
But my, my preference and approach has always been the other way around plus events are very hard to
organize yeah no i totally agree and i think that's where um maybe that's why it didn't come
across clear enough where it's like the the potential of like you know the tokenized internet
now which makes um you know all the the digital stuff much more um like the it's just more there's more potential
now and like and using that potential and leveraging it in the in the physical world
that's what i mean like for example like what do you like how important do you think you don't have
to answer that if you don't but like how important do you think uh are these um open spaces because
that's kind of like almost like a physical meter yeah way you know what i mean like and i feel like you know yeah right like if they weren't there like things
would change like i would i would think at least like yeah i agree with you yeah yeah like it adds
to the law right it builds context every week and like yes people going out of their way right it's
not like participating anonymously in this thing that is only beneficial to you in a self-interested, short-term way.
It's like you're showing up because you're irrational and interested.
And that, I think, yeah, it's a great point.
It's like that does demonstrate a level of interest
beyond clicking on a tab on your computer.
So definitely agree with the statement directionally.
All right, who's up?
Fax, Luke.
Hey, Jack, how you doing? Good, mate. Thanks for having me up. How you doing good thanks for having me out how you doing good good hope
all is well and i'm sure like planning these physical meetups is not as easy when you got
little ones running yeah yeah on that though like following on that i have like a couple of
experiences with these physical like merchandise or art that like,
like one, like the elements piece that is hanging on the wall.
Like that is, I feel like that, you know, looking back, you know, the digital to that
seems like something that like would be so crazy to sell, right?
Like if you have the physical of it like to unpair that seems
like so against any you know any kind of collector instinct that anyone would have i think that's
like a super interesting takeaway and then you know you had this uh cool exhibit in uh la uh
a number of years ago when you started out checks and you were you know you guys were like hand
printing designing t-shirts like the gasoline t-shirts were sick like the the sweatshirt and
and i've seen you post like occasionally merchandise like one that stands out to me is
you posted like a shirt that was like camouflage and i think it said like anonymous oh yeah yeah
right that like that one i was like dude like
let's get that one on the market okay how do you how do you view like the merchandise and like
you know when you post something like that is it for for meme value is it to kind of get a
sentiment of the market you actually think about producing something like that just want to get
your take on yeah yeah no i think it's a combination of all the all the three things you listed where so i think like clothing as a medium is very
interesting and we've been doing this like really stark vv merch for years and years and i've all
like actually i wish celia was here to corroborate this but like my i always have these periods of
time like i need to like really get into this and take this seriously and then i always end up at
this place where it's like you need a like hyper competent partner on the merch production stuff and it's almost it feels like a like a like a whole nother
business unit to do that really well and that's why we do these like uh kind of consistent skews
that i know are good and work with a vendor that i know is good but like getting into that the camo
thing for example i actually had that quoted out like how would i make this and it
becomes um it becomes more complicated but it's also like those are the things i think
we should be doing on the merch side right like these these almost like artistic capsules that much more labor and uh effort than printing on a blank and that is like against the the sort of
distraction to get there and make it the level of quality it needs to be is um it's hard to justify
in the short term but if you get good reception to an image that portrays that idea, it's like, it's worth making.
So it's really,
I guess it's just a lack of,
a lack of partnership on the really custom stuff at the moment.
But I definitely have aspiration to produce more of that stuff.
And I think it's like,
I just,
yeah,
I would love to,
you know,
over the years have like these small collectible objects that are reflective of what's going on or how you're thinking about certain things.
Yeah, absolutely.
In fact, just thinking through this while you're talking, it might be like a call for Jaleel.
Because when we think about the consensus mechanism that you have set up for Opepe,
the consensus mechanism that you have set up for l pepin you know if you were to post like the
anonymous shirt for example and then you could get consensus on that digitally online to basically
like mint the physical like is there enough it's like a kickstarter but with way more dynamic
yes very cool yeah yeah because when you get into the weeds of it you're going to realize like oh
boy to do this i'm going to have to sell this shirt for like $100.
Maybe people are going to think like I'm cash grabbing or something off the merch.
But if it's like, no, I'm producing this, this idea that I had, people, they want it.
They want it to be, you know, become the physical, like, there you go, right?
Then you have the motivation and the demand to produce that
limited merch and justify like that price point right i think there's an interesting like just
as you're speaking like a ui or a front end for that would be like if you want to get the price
of this down you need to encourage more people to buy it kind of interesting yeah yeah exactly right
kind of interesting yeah yeah exactly right yeah like a run of 10 they're 200 bucks each but if
you get it up to 500 pieces they're 50 bucks or whatever like that's a really interesting that's
an interesting idea yeah yeah so uh love to see something like that you know put out there and
then when you think about these physicals i mean not necessarily merch but like art like i mean
just looking at what we're you know expecting
here from ak with this grand piano like craziest kind of labor laborious process to produce a kind
of an art piece like this i'd love to get your take on you know what what's coming there this
he's going to be you know revealing this grand piano at Carnegie Hall and so on and it's like it feels like this has been in the making for years right yeah incredibly impressive craft and obviously like really elegant throughput from the like all of the storytelling in his work which I think is it's rare to have um it's rare to have that like aesthetic variety
but also the focus on the object right and the piano is like so synonymous with his practice
that you know feels obvious in retrospect but you would like you would never have been able
to predict that coming and the grandiose like the grandiosity of where it's being shown i mean it's incredible that's great um good for there's there's a i mean there are a
handful of um examples of that right people taking their work off the screen into these physical in very um very like elegant and uh like the last couple years these things have been
like oh let's get a jpeg and like square jpeg on a um landscape rotated screen with a cable
dangling on the floor and this is like more than an evolution from that right it's like doing things in physical
space that can only be done in physical space not taking images and putting them on tvs in a poorly
lit conference room um which we would seem to be doing for years on end before um and it also just
takes that long right for people's practices to produce objects like that.
So very exciting.
I'm sure it will be a catalyst for a lot of other people to go in that direction
where you have an established body of work digitally
and then you can make things that share characteristics with it
but are completely different objects.
Yeah, thanks for your take on that.
Like, I agree, like the TVs, you know,
trying to run the NFT art on the TV,
I just doesn't, for me, like, it's not elegant, right?
Like, it's, you know, I think that I've pushed you
in the past to kind of you know after picking up the
elements piece like i know there was like a lot that went into that you had master craft you know
partner producing those and you made some recommendations on frames and this kind of
thing but after that i was like you know the physical is it's so good and i you know i kind
of wanted to push you to like you know if not you know i know
like the production of it and all this it's like probably too much like you maybe you want to stay
out of that lane but just kind of at least like lining up the channel for collectors maybe through
one of these sites um to kind of be able to opt in to order you know kind of curated physical
high quality physical and i think that goes a long way because you know, kind of curated physical,
high quality physical. And I think that goes a long way because, you know, you put that thing on the wall, you know, it's, it's, it's, I don't know.
There's something to that.
Yep. Agree. Thank you, mate. I appreciate it. Nice to, uh, nice to chat.
Luke.
I have a feeling I'm getting rubbed on this can you guys hear me crystal oh great okay i was having all sorts of ghost speaker issues and stuff but okay great um so uh you were talking
to jewels earlier about how this like new protocol has basically kind of decentralized the process to the point where
you guys don't necessarily have to be involved but um i think one of the coolest things that's
happened in opep and i think you feel similarly is the collaboration feature that ygg implemented
that kind of allowed for zupepin and on pepe from jacob to kind of exist and it was kind of allowed for Zupepin and Onpepe from Jacob to kind of exist.
And it was kind of this, like, I don't know, I guess the way I think of it is kind of like an extension of the protocol in a sense,
like these additional features that really open things up to entirely new ways of creating Opepin sets.
So my question is, have you thought about or considered other extensions?
And I have one example I'll throw out there if you don't have any examples, but I'm very curious to know if you have thought of them.
So one example of something that I've thought of that might kind of fit into this protocol extension idea is something like, so like with the built on Ethereum set that YGG and I did, the two of us worked together to build this site that we, that generated the SVGs.
And, you know, there was like each edition had its own kind of custom design.
But within that, there was a lot of variability in the different, you know, colors.
And it was kind of, you know, it used Chex colors, but we noticed that there was like
kind of these different patterns, you know, whether there's like spacing in the colors
and which color arrays kind of created interesting patterns.
And that was all just like hand curated, you know, just kind of tweak the dials and we
get the different colors
that we thought felt nice but then um you know it kind of had that happen later it like would
have made a lot of sense to turn that into a collaborative set where people can submit their
own you know variations that they found right and then submit those and then you know i think that
those that order that set would have looked a lot different had people, you know, been able to contribute. So, um, the, like the additional
extension I thought about was something like, well, what if there was like, you know, I'm not
exactly sure how this would work, but what if there was something like, um, mint to collab or
mint to contribute or something like that, where it's a separate collection. Um, and people mint like, and they, they, you know, tweak the dials on whatever the,
the different additions are the artist builds the framework that allows people to kind of,
you know, uh, find interesting combinations of palettes or shapes or whatever within those
additions. And then by minting a token that acts as the contribution to the set and then the
artist just picks their favorites and then that's the then that's the way that like different people
could potentially get into the Opepin set so I don't just an idea that I've thrown out as an
example but not sure if you've if you've thought about or considered other extensions to the
protocol that maybe you and Jalil or YGG have talked about?
Yeah, that's like, that is not, um, not far off like the, where I think the natural extension always lands, which is like, how do you get this secondary tier of consensus or like quote unquote
lower tier of economic consensus at least where we had we've had like dozens of discussions about
how to do a seventh token or how to like elegantly uh use the plot like the stage as a platform to
um drive interest towards like an open edition for instance that's running for 72 hours so say like
the set that was staged last week romanoff has this setup you can opt in with your uh blanks
but there's also like maybe puts like three open editions up alongside it and this is actually not
answering your question but i've finished my thought the idea that that stage creates interest
that allows you to collect these secondary artifacts is potentially interesting but also um to what you were describing i think even
a combination of what win brought up earlier where you have these interfaces for exploring
outputs of some set of rules and then there's like a material commitment to curating them i think is
very interesting and different to any other like soft consensus thing that we've um worked on today
but i think over time this stuff will already has i think there's a couple examples in there now
where people have like built there's a there's like a music um there's a musical set that's in there where you can like
play them as instruments in different configurations and then there's a game set so i feel like
the next sort of tier of that is what you're describing where it's like there's a there's an
entity or an environment even outside of the protocol itself that's generating these outputs where
that's like one tier of fidelity higher than like here's a like zupeppen or on pepe where you have
this visual constraint and you just upload an image it's like you're creating your own set
of constraints on top of these constraints and then getting people to participate um in curating the 80
outputs and then giving them credit for doing so so i i yeah i think there's uh i don't know
if there's something that's obvious enough for us to build tooling around but i think what you're
describing will happen naturally eventually yeah i think the for for my example that I gave, I think basically the gap that it's kind of filling in, I think, is this, yeah, there's just kind of a disconnect between artists who are creating and, I'm not even sure they should be tied together, but, you know, people will create an Opepins set and then alongside it,
you know, we've seen a bunch of people create separate collections as a way of like,
basically capitalizing on the attention that having an Opepins set brings them. And, you know,
a lot of times it's kind of reminiscent, like Jacob has done a great job with this, I think,
with some of his work with building blocks and stuff. So yeah, I guess what I was just trying to get at
is like if there was, I don't know,
if the protocol itself had maybe more of like an API,
maybe API isn't the word,
but like API in spirit or something,
like a way to tie into it
that like external collections could influence
the official Opep
and stuff you know which is like um you know set collaborations and set submissions and stuff like
that where the artist sets up the actual uh set but then all of the other contribution stuff is
like happening somewhere else on some other thing but it's still like officially tied through. But yeah, just, yeah, obviously those are the, when you're two plus years, two and a half years
into development of a protocol and you're still like halfway through, I think that these are some
of the things that my mind goes to is just like, oh, what are some of the other limits that could
be pushed? Because I think, you know, nobody really expected one little feature like set collaboration to result in something as cool as Zupepin. You know,
it's like, oh, all of a sudden there was like this thing that two years in you get like one of the
coolest sets in my mind that exists. And it was because of this like idea of a whole bunch of
people getting together and collaborating through this kind of off-protocol system that brought things together in such a way that was really awesome.
So yeah, anyway, just rambling now.
But yeah, lots of cool stuff with OPEP and love it, man.
Thank you, mate.
Yeah, thank you.
Matt, I think I skipped over you.
Sorry, mate.
No, really?
Are you good to stay on time? know you said you'd uh you'd
bounce like 20 minutes i got 10 minutes sweet um curious question for you so from my standpoint
it seems like a lot of the people that are active participants in supporting digital art probably
came into the space back in 2021, 2022,
more so participating in NFT like PFP projects.
And it seems like there hasn't been a lot of people that have joined this space since then.
For the most part, I think the people that like digital art
tend to love digital art.
So it's not necessarily like a retention problem
as much as there doesn't really seem to be any clear catalyst for new participants to join the space.
And I know when these conversations are often had, it's sort of framed as onboard a million people to the space, i.e. buy my bags.
So not necessarily through that lens, but more so curious if it's something you spend any of your time thinking
about as the catalyst that can potentially bring more people into the space yeah i mean i spend a
maybe not directly thinking about it but trying to make things more interesting or you know trying
to produce objects that people want to own is an indirect is chasing after that goal indirectly i guess but you can't argue with
what you said about the number of people that are participating in a you know meaningful and
consistent way is like just a ridiculously small handful of people which is in a weird way
i don't know how to articulate this perfectly, but it's like oddly more, um,
I want to use words like reassuring, but there's a synonym for that where it's like
the idea that something so soundly rejected at large still has such a like small base of rabid,
uh, enjoyers to me, it's just like this just a timing issue
essentially and then the other part i would say like on the maybe on the on the way to get people
to care about it or things that can be done things that are interesting i'll give a couple of like
really specific opeppen examples one is like we've had a few like universities reach out
to us like send an email like hey we want to run a class where people they're either teaching like
some um specific image generation technique and it's like what's the you know what's a way we can
connect this to a real thing and opeppen providesun provides that. But I think there's also, you know, early on in this conversation,
it was like explaining this to people who haven't spent a year on Twitter.
It's like, oh, that's kind of interesting,
but not something that I'm going to like pivot my attention and time to understanding.
I'm going to pivot my attention and time to understanding. So I think a lot of it just comes
with this eventually being recognized as something that is actually novel and different. And I
believe it is. The way in which this stuff is built and designed, and Pepin specifically,
it can't really happen any other way.
And I think there's true value in that.
And there's maybe you can make the argument that a market this small, assigning
the value that it has to it is, uh, enough of a signal to keep going and make it
better and try and explain how it works to more people.
Because I think even as a mechanism, it's like a mechanism as a protocol,
like finding consensus as a group, if you have a good enough constraint or design language,
that can apply far wider than designing different variations of a frog's head
but we prove it at this really small scale so i think um i think you know the cliche of
like it's early it always applies or it still applies um but i also make no guarantees on
that either it's just like the idea that we're irrationally interested in
it we just keep participating because it's like there's nothing more interesting in my
in my mind like i there's not really anything else i want to spend my time on um that's how
i justify it and i imagine lemonade stand was like an onboarding event to some degree for vv um i have to check i think
you know what's crazy is like if you look at the um like the open edition participants of
when we launched mint protocol so when trade-offs originally launched i think that what was
well even before that 1988 if you guys remember that open
edition, I think it was 40,000 wallets minted that open edition. And trade-offs was probably
similar, maybe a little bit less, 30,000 wallets. And open editions now, to try and get
that into 200, 300, 400 wallets is like a massive accomplishment so like it really is a
i mean order of magnitude smaller but that the idea that
lemonade scent is a good example it's like that is sort of this
this form factor that is maybe even more repellent than the nft because it's like
the feedback loop is so sharp and so aggressive and like in your face that you don't even get a
chance to understand the idea before you have like a meaningful amount of participation so in
my mind that's like that's going to take even more work to explain why that's interesting, why that's novel, why you might want to participate in it.
I think it's possible.
I just think it's very different because there's almost no real-world analogy.
Collecting a piece of art and putting it on your wall because you think it's cool, majority of people can understand that and then all of the layers of complexity in the
digital space beyond that which is not the case in a good amount of
um collecting but in a few cases it is like you only really get the experience of the like the
the true experience or the true intent of the project if you engage with it more than just, you know, buy the thing and look at it. Um, yeah, just, it just takes time, I think, to get people to,
uh, care about it in a way that makes them spend time and energy without like a
20 second positive feedback loop. Um, I would hope that people think these projects have good feedback loops and like
you, um, enjoy the time you spend and the people you meet through them.
But like the faster, the, the fast spins basically on the other, on the other end with
the fungible stuff is like, you really don't have that much of a that much of a opportunity to convince people why it's novel or interesting so
i think that's like a harder task but it can be done
one quick follow-up if i may curious from your point of view the degree towards like the language
we use as a barrier like it seems like
from my standpoint only haven't spoken to a handful of artists so a sample set of uh
i've reached small number of people that like nft is kind of a dirty word almost like gambling is a
dirty word but prediction markets is acceptable like is there a almost like a chicken and the
egg if you know you onboard more artists and
inevitably more collectors will take interest in the space like do we almost need to do a pivot
away from nft because it has such negative association with the sort of speculation that
occurred in 2021 2022 or maybe maybe if you know enough time goes by we sort of just forget that
in the current artifacts that have been created on chain
sort of occupy people's mind space when we think of that term?
Or is it just such a dirty word that we just need to do a 180 on that terminology?
Good question.
I think it might be impossible, right?
It might be impossible, right?
Because the idea that you would have to enter the acronym
to explain what you're talking about
is actually probably reversing the phenomena
that you're trying to obfuscate the fact that this is what it is.
I guess I'd refer back to the previous point which is like
if you've been able to sustain interest and participation through what has been like global
absolute and complete rejection and embarrassment of a term and to be associated with something, it feels like,
you know what, there's like some degree of, you can look at that with some degree of, of positivity in my mind. It's like, despite the negative connotation, there's this level of participation that continues. you vulnerable digital objects i could see that getting traction at a certain point but i think
like trying to market it today as anything other than that is like
you're not fooling anyone essentially
all right i think i'm um i, I got, I got a run.
Uh, I'm going to wrap it up and I appreciate everybody's time.
Hopefully my, um, hopefully everyone will be back next week and, uh, we get the professional
hosts back on stage, but I appreciate everyone coming up.
Thanks for the questions.
And, um, yeah, as you you know where to find me anywhere else so
hit me on twitter and appreciate everybody thank you very much thanks for listening mate thank you
bye bye
