yo, this is RevlDeFi on the orbital command account
it's out, good to see so many people dropping into the room to hear about Eris Protocol
it's 5pm in Thailand with me, I hope you're well wherever you are
MB, can we just do a mic check and then the same with Philip, please
Hey Revl, good to be here
key loud and clear, thank you
Hey, same for me, great to be here, looking forward to the Twitter space
Awesome, how are things back home with you, are you in Europe just now Philip?
Yeah, still in Germany, all good
weather is great the last couple of days, so we're in a good mood
You're making me laugh, it's January, do you like cold weather?
It's fine, to be honest, it's 6 to 10 degrees here, which is quite warm already for me, to be honest
but of course it's not like Thailand where you are based right now, right?
Absolutely, that does sound quite warm actually
Yeah, so no snow with you, obviously not at the moon
No snow in Australia either, well it looks like we've got loads of people in this room, so this is fantastic
lots of people from the terror community, the white whale community
hopefully lots of time for audience participation in this space as well
So this is Orbital Command's first space of 2024, we're honoured to be joined by I guess an OG in the terror space now
Aeris Protocol, Philip from Aeris Protocol
I think our first call, Philip, was not long after the terror crash
and at that time, Aeris was new, I sort of thought it was like a small project
certainly your emergency grant was a small emergency grant
I can't remember the exact amount, maybe 16,000 Luna or something
but since then, like 18 months ago, Aeris has now become one of the sort of flagship protocols on terror
and obviously gone much further beyond
So with that rough introduction from my side, would you like to tell us what brought you into the space
and why you're not using your skills to mine fear?
Yeah, I mean the roadmap has been crazy and to be honest, back then when we had the first call
we had around, I don't know, 100 users, almost no TVL and it was just the beginning
and it's really great to see all these different communities in here now that we are also part of
and we are super happy to be here in the cosmos
and yeah, so initially we started just before the crash, I stopped mining fiat in January before the terror crash
and we wanted to build this slow burn arbitrage protocol
so we saw this in terror, in terror classic
there were these arbitrage opportunities to up Luna, to be Luna back then from Lido
and there were regular opportunities to trade for 3%, 4%
and we saw big whales trading like $100,000 worth of Luna back and forth making 3% on it
and we just wanted to allow users and the community to also participate and also stabilize the network
because liquid staking allows an immediate exit from the token
but it creates this kind of deep pack and this is also an issue if you combine that
of course with something like anchor protocol as we have seen the crash
and what we wanted to provide is just some stability for this kind of pack
that people who believe in a coin can take over this kind of unbonding risk
or this 21 day opportunity cost that whales often use to just quickly trade in and out of crypto
so we started developing it, we had it ready to launch what it was on testnet
it looked very promising and we even were in a race with Whiteway by the way
Whiteway also wanted to provide this kind of protocol
they were also in the progress of building it and we were really trying to be the first to launch it
and yeah, so the terror crash happened and it was like a greenfield on terror tour
and we just saw the announcement Stata once launched one week after the terror launch
and we saw a lot of projects immediately jumping off ship
didn't want to support terror tour like Lido immediately announced that they will not support terror tour
and the same for Stake for example, this is what we started with as a code base
because Larry stopped, didn't want to continue developing on terror
which is fine, I mean it was a pretty hard crash for everybody in the ecosystem
and we said no, we want to provide the community with an alternative to Stata
and we just said liquid staking, it matches our use case of the slow ban arbitrage
which is our goal to provide this kind of stable ecosystem for liquid staking tokens
and we have seen great success in that too
since we have launched the upward both on terror and on megaloo chain
and we regularly see trade opportunities often
we often beat the staking APY from the chain only with real revenue so it's from real trading
and yeah, and we also keep the market stable in this kind of regard
and this is what we have also seen for example, stride tokens a little bit failing on osmosis
often the STOsmo, ST Juno, ST Atom often trade between 3 to 10% of the pack of the redemption rate
and of course, this is also something we want to change because we are not only about our own liquid staking protocol
we want to stabilize all liquid staking in Cosmos to make the whole ecosystem more secure
and this is just a very small overview over areas how we have launched
we wouldn't be here if we hadn't the support from the different communities
we have received, like you said, a very small emergency grant to get us going
and afterwards we have received a sizeable grant from Terra2 to keep the lights on for us
and of course also from the megaloo foundation from the Ride program
we also received a very good funding amount that kept us going over the last couple of years
and this is really awesome and we intend to stay here of course and continue building, building, building
and provide the best ecosystem for liquid staking
yeah, and some background maybe about myself, how I joined the crypto space into this crazy world
you know, for me it was, I used Bitcoin quite early to be honest
but I just used it as a currency to pay things, something like you pay online, you could use Bitcoin for everything you want online already
very early when Bitcoin was, I don't know, I think $50 to $500 I already bought something
I always left like $5 of Bitcoin in my wallet and one year later it was already again $50 or something like that
so nothing big but only using for some kind of buying things online, buying services online and so on
and I always thought Bitcoin, it's only a distributed database because I'm from software development background
I also studied computer science and always were in traditional finance, active as an architect for banking applications
and yeah, so I always thought it's only a distributed database and what's so special about it
and some years later, I think it was end of 2019 or something
the brother of my wife told me, hey, you need to get into Bitcoin again
and this was the time I really seriously looked at Bitcoin and the value proposition
and at the time, of course, the banks already started printing money out of thin air, you know, the central banks and so on
yeah, so I started my endeavor into crypto space
and the first thing I wanted to do is, I'm a big fan of ETFs
so something like the all AC ETFs, you know, MSCI, world ETFs and so on
so I want to have some kind of portfolio that is broader than a single asset
and this is what I started developing on my own back at that time
2020 is something like an ETF based on cryptocurrency
so you can have your kind of strategies where you define something
you want to follow the market caps of the crypto space
you don't need to know anything but it would just allocate like a monthly spending plan
where you invest in cryptocurrencies, it was completely web tool
so with central exchange, integration and so on
but it was this kind of first step into this space
and this is why I'm talking about this
this is why I got Luna at around $5 when it started entering the top 100
so I acquired a little bit of Luna and of course it went almost parabolic
and it was super crazy and this is also the time I looked into some different kind of investment possibilities in the ecosystem
and this is how I really got onboarded into the Cosmos ecosystem
with anchor protocol and so on
and then a second thing happened some time later
I think it was 2021 don't name me on the years
because you know the years went go by so quickly
and so in that year the first IBC transaction also happened
and this was also very significant in my personal journey
because it was Osmosis and Terra that were connected
and Terra always was really awesome regarding this Luna and UST
minting and trading and this new technology with IBC
with the transfers of funds between these different chains
super seamlessly okay in the beginning it wasn't seamless
it was like you had to really hope that it arrives on the other side
within 30 minutes or something
and it could also take a couple of days if the relayers went down
or your packages didn't time out correctly
so it wasn't great user experience
but it gave a lot of opportunities for these kind of cross chain arbitrage protocols
and or cross chain arbitrage possibilities
and this is what I also started doing a little bit manually
so I started trading Luna, UST between Osmosis and Terra
and there was a lot of possibilities back then to do that
and also I started writing these kind of small bots
also stabilizing the market of course between these kind of different ecosystems
and this also led me to this kind of slow burn arbitrage protocol
because normal arbitrage you can cycle the funds through it very quickly
so you trade on the one side Luna, UST for example
and on the other UST to Luna and you have the same capital available
then you transfer it with IBC between the chains
and then you can do it again
and this is the difference to the slow burn arbitrage
because slow burn arbitrage is this 21 day lock of liquidity
and for normal arbitrage traders it's a high opportunity cost
because you are locked into one asset
and you can't use your capital for new trading opportunities
so the capital you need is a lot higher than with normal arbitrage
and yeah and this is also this kind of path with the ArpVoids on Terra right now
and yeah and so I got together with a couple of ex-colleagues
and we started Eris protocol like that
That's an amazing introduction there Philip thank you so much
which kind of leads me to ask the next question about Eris and where it is in Cosmos now
obviously it's done extremely well for me
it started off in Terra and now you see Eris popping up on chains across Cosmos
where is Eris now and where do you plan to expand further?
So when we started I think when we had our first call
I already talked about like we want to reach 100 million dollars TVL
so of course this is still a big number
and back then of course it was some kind of crazy number after the crash
almost all the capital was gone from the crypto space
along the beer market and so on
but we just kept building we still believe in the use case
and we very much believe in the technology of Cosmos
because we also evaluated developing on Ethereum of course
but both the chain transaction cost is very high there
so doing some kind of crazy DeFi, Degen stuff is super hard
because your only target group is some kind of whales that play around with 100Ks of dollars
but we want to have anybody have access to this kind of ecosystem that we are building
and also the developing language and with Rust and Cosmos
it's super great so it's really fun to develop for our developers too
so it's not something we need to force ourselves doing
because we are just having fun developing these kind of cool finance transactions
sorry I derailed that, what was the question again?
You're doing great Philip, I was just asking about Eris's footprint
across Cosmos and your future expansion plans
so initially it was super difficult to find the footing
because we are a new protocol and we just bond up just after the crash
nobody was happy at that time and it was super hard to acquire users
to acquire capital and so on
everybody was on the safe side, a new team, unknown team in the crypto space
that launches a liquid sacking protocol which is super security relevant
because it can have a lot of capital in there
we saw Stater, we saw Prism all had around 600 million dollars worth of TVL pre-crash
and of course these were the numbers we are aiming for
to rebuild this kind of market that has been before the crash
and I think the thing that is very strong about Eris is that
we have a good consistency of delivering new products
so we just try to launch our products when they are ready
and not based on some kind of market dynamics
because we have seen a lot of different protocols that had their apps 100% ready
but they say it's not the perfect market to launch them
and they just want to wait for the bull market to create better interactions and so on
but this is not the case for us, we want to launch as many good products as we can
and just build this kind of ecosystem back up where we see the need for it
and I see you guys are like all over all over Cosmos
you've got obviously Terra, Juno, Kajira, Megaloo, Osmosis, Chihuahua, Rejective
have I missed any? Archway say
you guys are classic, of course we support classic
where else are you guys going, what's on the road map Philip?
you know I might sound crazy but classic is something for our heart
we still want to support them and even though most of the community doesn't use DeFi
it's still something, some relict of the past let's say it like that
yeah we are still also on Neutron and of course we plan to go to any Cosmos chain that is out there
we can also switch over a bit about what we are currently doing and what we are planning
and of course a big market that we don't have yet access is for example Atom, DYDX
Tia of course, so Celestia
this all depends on one key technology we are currently developing
and this is the ICA, ICQ based liquid staking
so very similar to what Stride is doing with their own chain
and they have of course direct access to these kind of technologies
and we needed to wait to have it available through Cosmbuzzen
the progress has been great but this is one of the things we also had already developed for the couple of
I think the last six to nine months we have developed this
so we have the contracts in a good state but we are finalizing the contracts to launch these kind of tokens
and when we do of course we can immediately access all these chains that don't have Cosmbuzzen
but have these Interchain accounts available
so this is one of the directions
then for example today we have posted the SAVE proposal
I'm not sure how many people follow the SAVE DAO right now
it's a DAO on osmosis that has received I think five million osmosis
to deploy liquidity to different projects
and one of the projects is also Eris protocol
we are also getting 1.25 million osmo to provide SNLP
so it's not Eris capital it will still be in the controller of SAVE DAO of course
but it allows us to also bring our upwards to osmosis to also stabilize AMP Osmo and B Osmo
and this will also be very interesting because what we also want to capture
is of course the Stride Deepak from their original tokens
so this is something you will hear here first
is that we are currently also working on an ICA based solution to also stabilize Stride coins
just to provide a better ecosystem and more stabilize these kind of Deepaks we are seeing on these coins
and also provide value for the osmosis community as they also support us with their liquidity
then one additional thing we are also working on is of course the Eris claim drop
and we are trying to do it in the most fair way
and that is based on revenue so any kind of dollar of revenue that generates one ecosystem for us
or one user for us will be dropped in the same amount of Eris tokens
so for example if an ecosystem provides us with a grant even if it's used for audits or something else
just having the Eris protocol we will drop the same amount to the Stakers of the ecosystem
and we have been supported by a lot of different ecosystems so this is also how we will be distributing our tokens
the more our ecosystem supports us the more tokens the ecosystem gets
and the same for the user so if you are a user you are using Eris, you are locking up
AMP Luna in AMP governance then you get more Eris than a user that is not using Eris
just because you are supporting us, you are using our products, you are giving us feedback and so on
Can I come in a little bit? Philip, it's really interesting listening to you talk
it's a bit of a brain download, I think Eris is quite complex
I'm just wondering if we can maybe get some, I know there's people in this room that use Eris actively
can we just see some thumbs up if you consider yourself an active Eris user
maybe a thumbs down if you're not so familiar
that's going out to everyone in the room
just I mean before we just go into the token and then that's very interesting in and of itself
I'm just looking at Eris on my laptop while listening to the call
I would say Terra is your most developed ecosystem
I think there's a little bit of a delay, that's what it is
yeah, super late delay by the way
yeah, no there is because I remember I had trouble with the space one time and I had to try and do it through my computer while also being on the phone
because yeah, it was very weird
yeah, I mean do you have a favourite product? I mean on Terra you've got kind of six different sections
I mean one I'm particularly interested in and I'll use the word, yeah well I'll say it
shameful, at the moment Orbital Command aren't taking the governance section seriously
there's someone in this call might have to boot them out the room, in fact there's two people in this call they might have to get booted
4719 and Rose from Cosmos Rescue, they are taking the AMP governance seriously
and essentially they're winning more delegations for their validators by locking up Luna in Eris and then using the AMP Luna to kind of vote for their own validators
to get them more of the Luna that's locked up in Eris, hopefully I've described that okay
but just looking at it actually Cosmos Rescue are going hard, they're up to number two at the moment
yeah, so is there anything you'd like to sort of add about AMP governance and why validators should take it seriously
it's kind of self-evident but do you think it's just validators kind of voting for themselves or is Rose kind of speaking, maybe Rose can come up and speak for herself at some stage
or do you think it's community participants going oh wow Cosmos Rescue are here I'm going to vote for them
personally I think it's probably the former, if you'd like to comment
I think AMP governance is great and it works like we wanted to work because it shows commitment from validators
validators can lock up their capital, they believe in one ecosystem, they lock up their capital for a long period because you can lock up to two years in crypto space
two years is like an eternity and so they should also be rewarded for that and it also is something that is being shown to the community
so if you are participating in AMP governance and a validator locks up a huge amount of capital, it's very similar to Megalu by the way
so for example Ginku locked up immediately one million whale or something and showed the community hey we are here, we want to build here on Megalu
and it just shows commitment to the community and of course we want to incentivize users voting in this kind of governance
and it's a very hard topic because over the whole Cosmos ecosystem we see very low participation in governance and most votes are being decided by validators
we don't need to hide this kind of fact and similar as AMP governance so most of the votes I would expect is from the validator itself
and we have received a couple of requests that we also do some kind of bribing market on AMP governance so for example validators could reward voters also for themselves
and we have not started the work because right now we try to incentivize it via the aerostrop so for example if you lock up AMP lunar or AMP whale in AMP governance you get twice the aerostrop
so this is also one incentive instead of just holding it in your wallet and something similar has been done by Megalu, they also want to incentivize voting so they provided the sale drop if user voted with at least 1000 AMP whale so we see some kind of uptake in user numbers there too
Just so I'll come back on this voting then, so I mean I've got some AMP lunar, can I vote with that? How do I vote with that?
Yeah if you have AMP lunar you can lock it up, you define the locking period and based on your locking period you get a voting power
If you don't lock it up or if the lock has ended because you have this min lock of 3 weeks, if the lock is up you get the voting power factor of 1, if you lock it up for 1 year you get a voting power factor of 5 and if you lock it up for 2 years you get a voting factor of 10
Sorry, I totally had a misconception here, so this is voting in AMP governance, it's not about voting for governance proposals on a chain
It's both, it's both, it is both, so you both vote for delegations but the same voting power can be used to vote on governance proposals but we haven't seen a big interest from the community to vote on these governance proposals through errors
Mainly because as you said the most participants are validators and usually validators already vote with their validator and so it's very similar, it would be a very similar outcome
Okay, so just for clarity then, can a user, can I vote with my AMP governance stake for a Terra governance proposal on errors?
Wow, so how do we do that? Maybe you can tell me after the call
I will let you know after the call, I mean essentially right now it's still permission to create these kind of governance proposals but as soon as someone joins our telegram and says he would like to vote on this, we would instantiate it
And this is mostly done because a technical limitation we have, because we can't carry governance proposals on chain via cosmwasm
And what we need for instantiating this kind of proposal, we need to set the end date of the proposal so we have this kind of snapshot of when to count the voting power that is voting for it
And this is currently done off-chain and being submitted by one of our operator wallets
And this is the only thing that is permission, so only the creation of the voting process permission but afterwards any user that has voting power in errors governance can vote on these proposals
And for us it was always very important that the voting power and delegation power stays with the user of the chain
So it will never be something like that, errors token holders have a say in the governance of a different chain, we don't want to have that
Ok, so there might be a hidden message in that last part that you just said
Ok, I'll be honest, this kind of goes to my point that I think errors is quite complicated because I got kind of lost in that explanation
So rather than confuse the whole space, let's bring it on
Yeah, let's continue exactly this path, because this is also something we also saw
Ok, we started developing on Terra, we had one product, so we started with Amplifier and we expanded there a little bit
But as you say, errors has grown a lot over the last year
And we also see that, and the complexities, especially with these kind of double-wrapped tokens, like you get mvail, you stake mvail on the other chain
You get a receiving token, you get it to Ginku and collateralize it and so on, so it gets a lot more complicated
And we want to simplify generally how we interact with Cosmos chains in a whole
This is very similar to what, in my opinion, Station V3 also wants to solve, is this kind of multi-chain user experience needs to be better than it is today with Cosmos
So what we want to do is completely abstract away IBC, that users don't have to think about IBC, about channels and so on
It doesn't really matter, to be honest, for applications
And we also want to abstract away any kind of chain, so it doesn't matter if you interact with Terra or with Osmosis or with Migaloo
It should be the same user interface, you only connect your wallet once, because you have usually Kepler or Station
And it already gives us the opportunity to have all your wallet addresses
Then we have your wallet address, you have one dashboard where you can see all your tokens on all different chains
And when you hit deposit on one kind of chain, it immediately pops up the right window with the right account and so on
And this is something we have been working on, I'm not sure, can you share the screenshot I shared in advance?
Or should I share a new one?
If you have it handy, that would be great
I don't have it handy right now, that's my issue
I have it right now, I can share it here, let's see if I can get it going
We'll do a recap thread of this space, we can definitely include it in that
One thing, as part of my role at TFM, I noticed that we get a lot of support queries to do with transactions in inverted columns being stuck
And essentially that's going to a relayer and then not being spat out the other side
So what TFL seem to be doing with limiting the number of chains on Station is kind of frustrating on one hand
But if it means those 20 chains, 25 chains, whatever it is, are just going to always work
Then there's definitely a good sort of case for doing it that way
But have you thought about the sort of infrastructure that will be required, because using public infrastructure for this kind of thing
I think could well leave people not getting their tokens where they think they're going to get them
Yeah, no, so this is one of the biggest differences between us and other teams
We really use our products ourselves
And that means if we see any kind of issue with public infrastructure or with any kind of nodes we have, we can scale it up easily
And generally, all our main chains are being run by ourselves, so we have our own node infrastructure for that
And they are very, very high performance nodes, so our nodes didn't have any issues yet
And as soon as we see issues, we scale out very, very simply
And the idea behind Eris is also that it's completely standalone
That means we don't have any kind of back-end dependencies, we don't have any kind of indexes running
And we do everything on the chain and only have the front-end connecting to these kind of nodes
Because this is one of the best things about, to be honest, about Cosmos ecosystem
These nodes are very easily scalable to a lot of different nodes
So it's very simple to do this kind of scaling if you don't have any kind of complex indexer infrastructure
And the only difference I have posted in our chat, the screenshot of what we are working on
MB, can you post it to the Twitter?
I will do that, and MB can jump in and do the hosting while I do some typing
So essentially, I will start explaining this kind of screenshot of what we are doing
Right now, we are building this kind of one GUI where you have all the different yield opportunities
And through Eris protocol on a single view and you see your deployment on any of them
And all the states you have and how much capital you have deployed
And this is only the first step, because it allows just to have this kind of dashboard of all your assets
And you can deposit new assets with draw and so on from a single GUI
But this is only half the step we want to take
And the next step, of course, is to use Hooke's and PMF, so this package, forwarding middleware
To allow deposits into any kind of products from any kind of chain
So that means if you have mbluna on Megaloo, or the other way around, if you have mbluna on Terra
And you want to deposit it in Alliance on Megaloo, it's a single sign on the Terra ecosystem
To deposit it into the Megaloo ecosystem and into Alliance
So we want to abstract away this kind of IBC everywhere
I was just going to say, what about IBC? And if you're abstracting that away, that's amazing
Yeah, I mean, the underlying issues with delayed packages, bad relaying and so on
Is not solved by that, of course
Ideally, we also find a way to integrate these kind of self-relaying packages to in the future
But it's a step-by-step process for us
We needed to set up this kind of, we had a huge rewrite of our front-end
To allow this kind of flexibility that we connect to 10 chains at the same time, show all the data
And this was a huge refactoring of our source code and supporting more wallets and so on
And yeah, and this is just the first step and then IBC is next to abstract it away
And make everything easier for the Cosmos ecosystem
Yeah, I'm just looking at the dashboard screenshot that you shared
Hopefully Rebel will get one up for everybody else to see in a second
Yeah, looking forward to seeing that
So, what else has Eris got planned, Philip? That dashboard is certainly going to be great
Anything else on the roadmap that you can share with the group here?
Okay, so I shared the Eris token launch
We are still currently setting up the legal framework for it to launch the token in the right way
We tried to do it in Q1, but don't nail us on that
So it could certainly be a Q2 for the launch
Q2 is something like a very hard line we set for ourselves
And because we announced our claim job last year in August, I think
So a Q2 would be approximately one year
And we want to launch it because to just delay these kind of claim drops or air drops is also not great in my opinion
Because it doesn't allow price discovery and so on
So we want to get it out in Q2 at the latest
Now, Philip, you were talking about different communities who have supported Eris
And how you're then going to sort of pay it forward or pay it back
However you want to describe it by including them in the Eris claim drop, air drop
I've got bad kids, are bad kids holders going to be included?
You know, I think we're currently circling back to one of my initial things I said
It's very hard to find a footing in the Cosmos ecosystem
And there are a couple of, you know, these islands of projects or a group of projects
Some call it cartel or something
And it's very hard to get into these kind of cartels, if you understand what I mean
And we intend to stay true to our meaning
We have for the community, everybody who uses us will get an air drop
Anybody who supports us, like, for example, LionDao in the Pixelines added a trade for Eris protocol
We see it as an additional marketing, so they also are included in the claim drops
We have a couple of other NFT projects that also want to use some kind of Eris features
Which we will also include, so it needs to be related to something, to Eris
So just dropping a token to bad kids is probably not going to happen at the moment
Okay, well that's really interesting that you're telling us
Sort of the end of Q2 is a sort of hard deadline for this
Is it going to be like a sort of retroactive, I know, for example, this Guppy thing that was done on
Sorry, any disrespect, they're calling it a Guppy thing
Some of the sort of recent tokens that have launched on different chains have sort of said
Listen, you have to do this and you'll get the air drop
Is Eris going to work that way or are you going to sort of look backwards and see who has been using our product
We're already taking snapshots every week
So every week we see how is our user distribution
These kind of snapshots have two ideas behind it
One, that we reward existing users
So if you have supported us for one year, you will certainly get more Eris
Than someone who has just recently started using us
And second, we also see our user behavior a little bit
So because we don't do any kind of crazy in-app tracking of what kind of button you click and so on
We want to see that on the chain
So we only believe what is being done on the chain
And by holding mbluna, we snapshot every chain where wallets have mbluna
And we see this kind of user behavior where it is shifting
Where we have a good response
For example, we had a little bit of marketing with the sale
Or a bit of marketing with Injective
And we see these kind of user inflows over the snapshot times
It's very nice to see this kind of energy coming back to the market at the moment
Okay, so just for clarity then
Is it the case then that 4719 and Rose are not only benefiting themselves on AMP governance
By voting for their own validators and getting more delegations
The fact that they're doing that on Eris
Is going to also get them quite a healthy Eris airdrop
Yes, they take part in the Eris AMP governance
And that means they will also be rewarded just the same as others
We will also not have some kind of wear caps for that
Because for us it's $1 of revenue is $1 of revenue
If it's paid by a whale, it's also okay
If it's a validate, it's also okay
For us it's just fair to reward people who support our protocol and use it
Because for example 4719 also advertise it on Twitter
And they leverage their own tokens that they hold from the Cosmos ecosystem
To earn more through their validators
It's a very valid approach and it shows their commitment to the ecosystem
I would just like to verbally send them both a meme
You know the one with the black guy smiling and tapping his head
Orbal command are really going to have to jump on this
And also Galactic Punks who kind of been dabbling with AMP governance
I think we are going to get on it more heavily
Or I'll certainly be advocating for them to get on it more heavily themselves
Is there anything else about the token launch that you'd like to address?
I mean we haven't shared much about the token itself
It's especially done this way
We will share details when we launch it
But there will be some nice utilities in the token itself
We have already modeled it, how we want to do it
It will be very similar of course that revenue goes to token holders
So it's not something like that you hold just a governance token to upgrade the heiress contracts
This will not be the case
So there will be real revenue going to the token holders
And then there will be a burn utility
So you can burn heiress and get something in return
No, you said you mentioned burning
The funniest one I think is AMP is it Ash?
You can do something with that and turn it into gash
Which I just think is hilarious
I wonder if maybe it's already been decided possibly out of the loop
Can you tell us which chain the heiress token is going to launch on?
This is a very very difficult question for us
Because while we have our favorite chains which are Megaloo, Terra and a couple of others of course
But we are very multi-chain maxis
So we don't believe that launching it on a single chain is deciding something for us
So it's just the base of the token
But it doesn't mean that we don't build products on other chains
Or have any kind of more alliance with one single chain
And to be fully honest, currently with the chapter 11 filling of TFL
It creates a little bit of uncertainty on Terra for us
And currently we are still of course watching what is happening in this space
And it has not been decided yet
And I'm sure the answer, I'm just making stuff up at this stage
How about unscraping it on the bottom of the top?
This is one of the real things we have evaluated and we might even do that to be honest
Just inscribe it on the Cosmos Hub and it would be a fine thing to do
But as I already said, this doesn't match our philosophy
This is the only problem we have
Because inscribing it would require to run indexing infrastructure
I think that what the DeFi team is doing on Cosmos Hub
They run their own indexes to do these kind of inscriptions
And this is not what we want to do
So ideally we want to have it on chain really
You know the transfers and so on
And not in some kind of index so that it needs to be run by someone
Well I guess this is something people could do
Or maybe Eris could put out a tweet or a tweet thread
About asking people where they think they should launch the token
And yeah, that might get a nice bit of social media engagement
If we all jump on and give our opinions
Yeah exactly, and then we add a poll and suddenly a couple of chains get 10,000 of votes
Yeah, it hasn't been decided yet
We have a couple of chains in mind that would fit very well with the Eris token
But it hasn't been decided yet
Because it's a difficult topic for us
Also because we are also very aligned to a couple of ecosystems
And each of them has their own benefits and disadvantages
Awesome, I don't know if you have any questions, MB
Before we open this up to the floor
But just to respect everyone's time
We've got maybe 12, 15 minutes left
So if there is anyone listening
Who would like to raise a question or comment to Philip and Eris
And while we're waiting, MB, have you got any final comments for Philip?
Yeah, I mean, Philip's covered so much
It's been a great space, but I was just going to ask him
How do you feel about what's happening in Cosmos right now?
Optimistic and what do you see is
What are some more exciting things you see happening on the horizon at the moment
Where are you degenning? Are you degenning?
Okay, so degenning, I don't do too much degenning
I do collateralization and lending and stuff like that
But I don't do leverage, so I don't leverage trade anything
I burned my hands a little bit using Livana
I really like the product, but these kind of osmo spikes
That we saw just before the epoch time
Because during epoch time osmosis chain is
You know, the lock production takes 10 minutes or something
Or 5 minutes, and during that it's always
How's it called? You can manipulate the price a bit
Or the price was manipulated a bit
But that doesn't matter, I like to use DeFi products
The biggest issue is tax reporting for me personally
But I'm glad that I can code up something
So we have internally developed some tool for
A really crazy tax reporting stuff across Cosmos
That can analyze all transactions and so on
But it's not this kind of state where we could launch it as a product
Because every degen is different
And we mostly index the kind of stuff
That we are doing internally as a team
And that is required for the team members
So we can have full tax reporting regarding our treasury
And just thanks for those tax comments
Just to sort of put a bit of a downer on the whole thing
But I put the, or linked to the screenshot that you shared
Up in the nest if anyone wants to have a look at it
I'm still a little bit confused by what I'm looking at
Is it the case that it's like LPs and assets
That are currently on errors
But sort of separated into their own chain silos
That you're going to kind of bring together and put on one single dashboard
So it will be a single dashboard where you can interact with all chains
All errors products where you deposit anything
It will be a single screen
And of course there will be better filtering search possibilities
So you can search by a coin or only display your deposited coins
Or where you can deposit and so on
So a little bit of smarter UI where you can just interact with any kind of product
And also see the state of your token
So for example if you have amp-luna on terra for example
It will be shown as deposit
And if you have amp-luna locked in governance
You will also see it on the same screen
Which you currently can't in errors protocol
And in a future update we also want to show cross chain locations of tokens
So for example if you have amp-luna on megaloo
It will also show this kind of amount
Or will include it in your deposit amount
So it's just this kind of universal view on your assets, on errors
But you can also interact with it
So like I want to withdraw something
I just want to start unbounding process
Or I want to deposit more or whatever you want
Okay so just so I've got this clear in my head
I mean there's one thing I think or not
But one thing I think could do with being sort of highlighted
Maybe the people at megaloo would disagree
But I think it's really cool that you can deposit native USDC onto errors
And that gets staked sort of behind the scenes over on Ginku
And then the sort of liquid stake token you get back
Gets deposited into the Alliance module megaloo for an extra sort of bit of yield
I would describe that right?
Yeah, you would describe that completely right
Because I also thought that the user experience of adding USDC to Ginku
And Alliance Staked and so on is complex
And then you need to manually auto-compound your weight rewards
And usually these USDC farmers they just want to deposit USDC
And be done with it and just receive it
And by the way, if you do that you will also be part of the heiress claim drop as well
So if you use USDC here through heiress then you will also get an heiress allocation
Can you remember how the APY was on that for the sort of first month?
Because it seems quite realistic now
Still not bad, 15% or something
I mean in the beginning it was like 50%, 60%
It was very high, but of course the deposits on Ginku went up
And this had a very positive effect on Ginku too
Because now you also have liquidity to exit from USDC
And this was one of the reasons why, for example, I didn't use Ginku at first
Because it has a high risk if you deposit an asset into a protocol
And there's no liquidity for you to exit it again
So they have worked a little bit about also their algorithm of how they define the APY
Which improved things over there too
Thank you for that clarification
No one's requested the mic, so I'm quite happy just to keep going
But just so that I've got this sort of clear in my head
That USDC deposit can totally be done in heiress
What about if I was in the solid, or wanted to use the solid, Axler-USDC LP on Astropore on Terra
I can also do that on heiress as far as I'm aware
But what if I wanted just to deposit Axler-USDC into Cavern protocol on Terra
Can I do that in heiress?
You can't do this in heiress
So the goal of this school, it's not to replace Pulsar
If you remember the governance proposal from Pulsar, they also asked for a grant
And in return they wanted to develop this kind of thing
Where you can interact with any kind of DeFi application through the ecosystem
And this is why it's so interesting that Station or TFL bought Pulsar
Is because I think Pulsar has been working on this kind of integration
And this would be more what you are thinking about right now in my opinion
Because heiress will of course show mostly heiress products to use
So because AMP-USDC is an heiress product, a wrapper around Ginku and this Hawaiian stacking
So it's this kind of combination of both
This is our additional value we provide to Migaloo
And we can't use it the same for Cavern
It would just be a wrapper around their GUI, to be honest
Because you can deposit USDC, Axler-USDC also on their GUI
And it wouldn't be any kind of additional value we provide by just adding it to our GUI
And this is where Pulsar would be great
And I think that they will go this way, that when they fully integrated with Station
You will see both your dashboard of where your assets are located
But you will also be able to interact with your assets that have been deployed
So you will see something like Cavern deployed
I don't know, 100 Axler-USDC
And you can withdraw it directly from the Station GUI, something like that
Or at least this is what I would like to see them do
I mean, maybe you don't have inside information on that
But that seems a reasonable thing for a project to develop
I think there's quite a few projects doing stuff like that
42 or doing something, TM or thinking of something like that
I mean, I would like to see it
But as you know, TFL is under a lot of scrutiny right now
So I also asked them to integrate some of ARIS products
And it's a little bit difficult
Because they will provide or operate front-end for these smart contracts then
And they have a very strict legal framework at the moment
In what they need to operate
Yeah, don't get me started on that
So we've got Teckers up with a comment or question
Teckers, the floor is yours
Aye, thanks for having me
Just got a quick question, I'll be quick
So if I lock up my Luna or whale into Aunt Luna or Aunt Whale
And say if I want to unwind it a year or so later
Is there a difference between that and also swapping it on, say, Conehall
As in, because I know, obviously, liquor staking the longer you leave it
The more value it's worth when you're unbonded
But is there a difference if I unbond it or swap it on, say, Conehall or Asperport?
No, so there's no specific difference
You need to see these kind of AMP tokens as receipt tokens
So when you return the receipt, you get your funds back
But you can also trade your receipt tokens
So some other users want to trade it from you
And usually if you want to have this kind of instant unbonding
Without needing to wait for the 21 days, you can just swap it
But you will always have this kind of a small increased price
So usually you are paying between 1% and 2% fees
Or not fees but spread for selling it immediately
Instead of waiting 21 days
Okay, and also just one more thing
I'm with Rebel, like, I use Eris, but it is quite complicated
So if, I don't know how I can say this, but if there could be some sort of, I don't know, idiot's guide
And how to use some of your more complex products, that would be very handy
I don't know if you obviously can't have time
But also, is there any way you can possibly reduce your 21 day lock up
Or on any of your products?
No, so you can't reduce the lock up period, that's not possible
For example, if you use the AMP governance, these kind of locks are set until the date
Because you got your voting power and you were able already to vote on things
And yeah, the other thing is the user experience, we totally agree with you
And this is why we are working on simplifying it
Or at least giving a better overview of the state of things
How you can interact with it
But this is a work in progress because it's, like we said, we have grown a lot over the last year
And have onboarded a lot of different products and chains
And we just need to have this kind of unified again a little bit more than currently
Okay, no problem, thank you for having me and thanks for your answers for that, thank you
Thanks, Ekers, for such a well-mannered, not really an intervention, but for stepping up
I mean, one of the things about the 21 days is that, I mean, that's the, just so I put it right in my head
That's the lunar un-bonding period, that's not like an Eris thing, is it?
You're just respecting the un-bonding of state lunar
Hopefully that wasn't such a stupid question, I've stunned Philip into silence
Can you repeat it, please?
Ekers was talking about 21 days un-bonding, I mean, that's not like an Eris protocol thing
That's just like on Terra, it takes 21 days to un-bond your lunar
And that is why if you want to turn or slow burn the amp lunar back into lunar
It takes 21 days because essentially you're unstaking lunar
So this kind of 21 days is chain-specific, but you can skip this kind of opportunity cost of the 21 days by swapping it out
But usually it costs this 1-2% mark-up in price
And this is exactly how our upwards work, upwards work exactly the other way around
So they trade lunar to amp lunar to keep the market stable
So when you want to exit, for example, amp lunar, it's always in this kind of pack range of 1-2%
And we have seen, if you look at the data from TFM, for example, the charts between lunar and amp lunar
They are very closely aligned in what we expect the price to be
They're not big wigs or something like that
Awesome, well, thank you very much for joining us today, Philip
Thank you everyone for being in the room
I can see Edith joined towards the end
Edith at Cosmoverse, Edith is lovely
MB, would you like to say anything before we shut this thing down?
No, thanks so much, Philip
Thanks to everybody who's been listening
We'll definitely have another one soon
Everyone, techers, we will take on your Idiot's Guide suggestion
And that's something the Orbital Command will start producing content on initially for Eris Protocol
Thanks everyone, speak soon, bye