hey this is rebel defy here on the orbital command account today we are going to be hosting
persistence to talk about their new restaking or lrtfi and which is going to be quite exciting
hopefully very exciting and for visibility we brought the persistence account up as a speaker
but accounts not going to be speaking so we're waiting on michael joining i think he is going
to be the main guest today but while we do that i've brought up mb as the orbital command co-host
and we can maybe riff a little bit on alliance and and that's what persistence are going to be
using for um i think what they're calling liquid restaking token finance and so as with a lot of
lst's um it starts to get a little bit confusing when new iterations of technology come out so
it's going to be really exciting to find out um what they've got planned over at persistence
um mb how are you doing sir let's have a mic check doing great things rebel hey everyone
good to be here hey this is actually we've got some alpha is is already being dropped
i can see my boss in or not my boss the the founder of orbital command is in the audience
and he's got a new pfp i am so proud of him rocking an nft um well i'm going to have to
bring him up to say a word hopefully he's available that is such an awesome one as well
the entire persistence team actually um have similar pfp shall we say
and so maybe you can spot him black trader are you going to come up sir
i'm feeling out of place here the only one hey what's up with that hey how are you
i'm good i'm glad you noticed i'm rocking my new pfp dude that is so cool
and when did you get it uh i've had a bad kids for a while like eight months but i
just got this one uh like a few days ago i was very excited about it it's it's super super dope
although it has slightly longer hair than your good self um but other than other other than a
haircut it's very appropriate and so so have you been enjoying the bad kids airdrops
sorry what was that have you have you been enjoying the bad kids airdrops did you get
oh did we get dimensions yeah i got dimension which was awesome so hoping there's gonna be
was there other ones i namada did you apply for that one oh yeah i got that one too yeah you're
right i forgot about that one awesome so yeah bad kids man awesome to be part of that tribe
oh we've got michael in as well and maybe he is going to be able to tell us how they did this
if you look at michaels name or pfp after his name after the blue check mark it's got the
little persistence logo i'm really interested to find out how it's possible to get those
hey michael can you hear can we do a mic
terrible i can hear you can you hear me awesome coming through loud and clear mb is gonna have to
consider a bad kid we put two bad kids up as speakers um yeah so yeah can you tell us first
of all actually michael this um i can see the persistence team um i've got sukriti as well has
got this um persistence p as part of your twitter names like that that doesn't look like a
a regular emoji to me so how how did you get those i think it was like we have to get the twitter
organization and then you can add some affiliates and that's how you get that but but i'm not i'm
not the right person to answer that we have a very strong marketing team who looks after these
things so i don't have to wow maybe that's something we could consider at orbital command
um so yeah it's great to have you here for this discussion of alliance re-staking and
l i think i might have made a mistake in the title is it it's not rst phi is it is it l rt phi
yeah you could call it a lot if i are this like the stake token finance you know you you can call
it whatever you want to call it okay so i didn't make too much of a mistake there um yeah well
it's been a while since we've had you on i remember we had jerwin on almost a year ago were you
in that call i can't remember no no i think it was it was yeah i don't know if i'm not wrong yeah
yeah yeah um so it was great to have you on then at that time you guys were looking at different
sorts of sort of shared security options um and i mean is it fair to say that you are looking
at this as a as a way to increase security on persistence one or i mean can you maybe just sort
of launch into a discussion of like why you chose to go for this is quite it seemed to come out of
the blue um which is pretty exciting for people that are into this re-staking um in the cosmos
so yeah can you tell us a little bit more why you decided to go for the alliance module and
how you want to use it absolutely uh thank you rebel so a very quick introduction about myself
as well uh so hi everyone i'm mikil i'm the chief strategy officer at persistence labs i
look after the entire business function uh for persistence so persistence the chain piece take
uh liquids taking application next to the decks alongside everything else that we are doing to
build the ecosystem uh i've been with the organization for for more than four years now since
the absolute first day in fact and i played various roles in the organization now like i
said looking mostly after the business function uh we've been over the last like like rebel
mentioned last year or so we've been looking at various security uh you know security sources for
the persistence core venture in itself and obviously there's been a lot of exciting uh
developments in the shared security space right but i think if you really go back to see what
what kick started the whole shared security uh idea or the the development of shared security
it was a few ideas that came out very long ago right like missed security was an idea that was
shared a long time ago replicated security was an idea that was shared a long time ago but i think
something that got shipped in the best possible state and i think allows a lot of like you know
uh customizability allows chains to and like really have that sovereignty as alliances the
alliance module and that's kind of where our inclination to to using the alliance module and
building on top of it uh comes from so we've been uh in the past we've talked about becoming an
interchange uh security consumer chain uh which is consuming security from the cosmos but that
does not make sense for various reasons and obviously the biggest reason is that you don't
have you're not a sovereign chain anymore obviously people still claim that okay you are but
maybe you still are but you're restricted in the amounts of things that you could do on your own
chain so we don't want to do that we don't want to have that what we wanted and continue to want
is to be able to have persistence run as a sovereign chain but allow the development and
the creation of exciting new markets around liquid stake tokens and liquid staking so we've
always claimed that we are a liquid staking first chain our objective or or how we like to call it
you know how we like to call ourselves is we're a purpose-built layer one on a mission to maximize
liquid staking yield so when we say that what we want when achieve is allow exciting use cases to
be built on top of the persistence chain which uses liquid stake tokens as a primary uh you know
asset so i've always believed that liquid stake tokens will replace you know base assets in
d5 i didn't think cosmos d5 were picked up it's still not in the place where it should be but
it's getting there and that thanks to liquid staking but what could really make things even
more exciting is re-staking and alliance has enabled re-staking for a very long time now it's
just you know like i keep saying it uh in cosmos we as cosmonauts are just not good at marketing
so we use terms like alliance or we use terms like replicated security mesh security but it's
actually re-staking which is so much simpler for for a normal person to understand you stake your
assets you can re-stake them or additionally provide security to other services chains that's
what eigen there did really good so alliance uh the alliance module allows us to enable other
assets on the persistence chain as assets that could be staked to increase the economic security
of the persistence chain today the persistence chain is secured by xprt xprt i would say while
has has you know had very high staking ratios for a very long time uh it's if i'm not wrong you know
always been around 75 to 85 percent currently sitting at about 77 percent what we have to be
aware of is that it is still a volatile asset similar to every other asset in crypto right
one asset that's the least volatile would be bitcoin after that i would say is ethereum
and then you have like the altcoins you know all which are usually very volatile so in in a
situation where your chain is secured by a volatile asset what you want is as much economic
security as possible to reduce that volatility to have the chain be as secure as possible so
the alliance module allows us to have other assets like atom or luna for example or assets like
tia which could be then used to secure the persistence chain so yeah that's kind of what
we are looking at but from a different angle which is how do we use liquid stake tokens for this not
just you know native tokens and how do we build more exciting things on top of it so that's where
we are coming from and that's kind of the high level thought process here
awesome thank you for sharing and sorry for rushing over the introduction section but he
did or gave us a lovely introduction of your role at persistence thank you and i mean one
thing that really surprised me and looking at the blog and i've shared the post up in the nest i
mean literally in the first well not quite the first sentence the second sentence um
or first sentence you said hey we're going to do restaking sounds interesting second sentence
you're saying we're going to do restaking and we're going to consider using assets not just
p-stake assets which are the persistence and lst's um but also lst's from stride
quicksilver and milky way um i found that it stopped shocking to be quite honest in that
that you would but but also really kind of reassuring that that you're considering
really trying to build bridges with what are essentially competitors um so
can you maybe sort of go into the thinking behind why you're not just going to be using
stk assets as i'm restaking assets that's a that's a very good question and i think obviously
within cosmos and crypto to be very honest a lot of people keep saying oh we have to grow the pie
we have to grow the pie but i don't think that's something that people really follow and i won't
even say our objective is to grow the pie i think everybody at the end of the day is running these
products and these chains as the business right every community like the persistence ecosystem
every xprd holder wants to see persistence succeed uh from our perspective the decision is
how do we make that like what does that success look like right so we claim to be the liquids
taking hub we claim to be the place where you can do exciting things with liquid stake tokens
now if we are to say okay that those liquid stake tokens are just peace take issued tokens
then that's not really us being true to what we set out to do which is to actually make it
you know a liquid staking first chain and no matter which tokens you have and and the fact
that okay let's say you know peace take so far has been where we've been very conservative when
it comes to incentivizing for traction like you know you look at stripe for example they've gone
so aggressive they spend almost like more than 10 percent of the supply and incentivizing for
traction all also another five percent as an airdrop on the flip side peace take has spent
less than three four percent of the supply right so there's different approaches to getting
what you want from our perspective i think the stripe team has done a phenomenal job so has the
milk tr team right milky way team uh the quick silver team is the strong team we know that for
a fact so while as long as you know the fundamentals of the projects are solid you want to see how you
could work with them and the fact that there's so much st atom supply out there there's so much
you know uh milk tr and stt supply out there you want to leverage on those aspects to actually
provide a strong solution the moment we start saying okay it'll just be peace take native assets
you're kind of already limiting the the number of users you could target right so from our
perspective it's about doing just as to what persistence set out to do and build that ecosystem
in the right way and uh be agnostic and not just you know use no throw turns like oh we have to
grow the pie i think yeah that's my those are my views obviously i mean i think yeah it's a very
interesting philosophy and it's interesting that you're not saying hey we are we're growing the pie
you're you're you're sort of you're not speaking about it you're kind of doing it um or potentially
going to do it anyway so i mean could can you maybe like give us like the user journey imagine
i i mean there's a few dgens in the audience who i know personally um if we were say if we'd
stake some tier for milk tier um what would they then do with that to restake on persistence
yeah and i appreciate this isn't live here but yeah yeah so i think obviously the mechanism
when it goes live might look slightly different because it's still under development so even like
taking a step back and before i share the user journey i could maybe just share how we are
thinking about this so the first or the step zero is getting the the alliance model live on the
persistence mainnet uh which will happen i think somewhere around like march because we have another
big chain upgrade coming up uh by the end of feb which would bring a ck xp rd and some very
exciting features you know uh like superfluid lp and and stuff like that which would really
and we can talk about those things superfluid lp is if you're familiar with superfluids taking
it's kind of the reverse flow of that but if you hold state xp rd you could immediately like in one
click get two liquid state xp rd and xp rd lp run dexter and you get the lp token all in one click
so those are exciting features that are being built out and that's expected to go live uh you
know by by the end of this month and we have rajesh on the call as well if you see a product
that persistence dot one uh rajesh if you don't see that live you can uh dm him and bug him i'm
kidding please don't do that i will do it but uh yeah like so we have that coming up after that
we'll have the alliance model go live on the chain and we'll start getting some assets like stk atom
stm q atom to begin with on the persistence chain which users could just restate when users restake
these assets what do they get they don't get anything back the only thing they get is taking
rewards for atom in the form of stk atom stm or q atom whatever asset they deposited
and they start receiving xp rd staking rewards as well but their st atom or stm stk atom q atom
are all locked up uh that's the first version of the product where it's it's actually just a very
simplified you know it's the alliance model itself uh nothing crazy there but your only
staking was in two assets but what we've seen that what we haven't seen so far in cosmos
is mechanisms that allow liquid stake token holders to actually use rather risk-free
nothing is risky obviously but low risk products you know to generate additionally on top of the
staked assets so if you see like stk atom use cases what can you do with it you can use it as
collateral on um or mars for example to you know borrow against it now there's obviously
high liquidation risk when you get liquidated it's not just you know 0.01 percent of the capital
it's a lot more than that right similarly when you look at actually on the flip side when you
look at staking risks it's if the validator has some downtime you'd slash you'd get stashed by 0.01
percent if i'm not wrong and five percent for a double slash you know what that your what your
risks are similarly when you restake your stk atom on the persistence chain your risk is limited to
let's say five percent slashing on the cosmos have resulting or five percent slashing on the
persistence chain but you know all the validators you're aware of the risks that you take because
cosmos is taking first ecosystem it's not a liquid staking first ecosystem unlike a theorem
right a theorem people don't know how to stake you would have never staked but you would have surely
liquid stake at some point right so uh that's the first version the second version is
which is where liquid restaking comes in where we'll have multiple walls and users would be
able to deposit their atoms as the atom q atom in one of these walls so there's an atom wall
there's a tia vault and there's like other asset walls where people would deposit these assets
but obviously there's two ways to go about it and the team is internally you know still debating
about the best way uh where one of the ways is to have like pooled security where it's very much
similar to eigenlayer where what happens in eigenlayer right you have all these people
depositing depositing these different assets into liquid restaking protocols which let's say if you
have you know st eth you have uh for example re eth you deposit it into a liquid restaking protocol
you get rse now the restaking liquid restaking protocol can choose with the underlying assets
what services are being secured so they run different strategies similarly in cosmos
if persistence uh on the persistence chain you deposit st cat and misty item q atom you have
10 other chains that could borrow security from this but how do you want to provide security to
those 10 products like 10 services 10 chains that is a big question mark because if you provide
services to all the chains you provide security to all the chains you're taking slashing risk on 10
chains or at once which is not the best way to go about so what they're meaning to right now is
having like isolated security so instead of increasing risks you could just have you know
st k atom basically an atom vault for persistent security an atom vault for osmosis security an
atom vault for some other chain security and and so on so forth with other assets as well and that
means you earn staking rewards in the form of the liquid stake token uh so in the case of st k
atom it's atom if you choose atom vault and persistence you earn xprd if you choose atom
vault on let's say you know terra you get luna rewards so something like that is what we are
looking to do but then what makes things more exciting is the creation of liquid restake tokens
now what are liquid restake tokens you basically have restaked their assets now you're earning
rewards in two different tokens but you get a representative token for this which you can then
use and depart obviously the risk the risk parameters like for example if you have like
60 loan to value when it comes to st k atom as collateral you could potentially just get 30
when you use a liquid restake token because the liquid restake token is is locked up you know
there are bigger risks to it it's not just slashing risk on one chain slashing risk on two
chains so that's kind of you know the liquid restake token is issued so the user can just swap out of
earnings taking rewards for atom xprd in one go without having to unbond and wait for unbonding
on persistence and bonding on the cosmos hub so that's kind of what the user journey plus the
different steps would look like now i don't know if it answers your question rebel and maybe i've
confused people a little bit here but yeah um well hopefully i'm not the only one who is a little
bit confused but it does sound i mean i can hear the excitement in your voice um so that definitely
is is making me excited for this so i mean the first thing i maybe want to ask about there is
i heard you mentioned the word vault a couple of times um and there's certainly one of our
listeners a big fan of the apollo dao vaults are i'm just wondering are are these vaults something
that the persistence team maybe wants to build themselves or are you looking for like other
partners to come in and build stuff no so we so we would not be building liquid restaking uh we'll
be only it's similar to eigenlayer right where eigenlayer provides the optionality for people to
restake their tokens but on top of that we you see other liquid restaking protocols like ethify
renzo puffer all these are like lrt scalp dao right so you have other teams building those
products so similarly for us the objective is to provide the infrastructure and then work with
other teams who issue these lrt's and these could be different lrt's right you could have like
uh a high risk lrt a low risk lrt stuff like that you could even like i talked about a little bit
about isolated security pool security like a restake token could be issued in a way where
you know you pool security uh but but those are complexities i don't want to go into just yet
uh but yeah we we don't want to build the vaults and the liquid restake tokens ourselves the vaults
here are slightly different to or in fact like very different to a portal walls uh it's more about
locking up tokens in a specific wall on the persistence chain which could then be used to
you know ica onto another chain and and house those assets there for storing that chain so it
kind of uses a lot of the existing infrastructure that we have within chain accounts and stuff but
also leverages the alliance module to a large extent wow and it sounds like it's going to rely
on i strong ibc connections as well is that fair to say yeah yeah um and i know recently persistence
has kind of joined into a partnership with um a team that are providing like high level relayers
and maybe some other stuff i'm not exactly sure what the other stuff is but um i think crypto crew
are doing some stuff for persistence are you able to explain what they are doing yeah so essentially
what crypto crew does for the and so there was a proposal on the persistence chain uh requesting
for uh some some grant amount which would allow crypto crew to run relayers across multiple
chains uh with with persistence so persistence cosmos of persistence osmosis and what would this
enable this would enable like persistence to have uh you know very seamless persistence to offer
seamless ibc transfers for users uh and allow peace take peace take users into chain accounts
for its transfers so every time you as a atom holder you want liquid-staked atom you come on
to the platform and deposit uh atom what happens is you're doing an ibc transfer from the cosmos
hub to the persistence chain but after that this uh atom sits in a module on the persistence chain
and is then on a on a epoch basis so we have daily epochs and the next epoch this atom along with
everyone else who's deposited their items get sent back to the cosmos hub uh through an interchain
account uh you know this thing so we done they run icary layers and ibc layers for persistence
to allow the functioning of peace take and dexter and and the whole ecosystem
and how are you finding um the quality of what they are offering just now i saw a tweet when i
quite recently by crypto crew just saying they were relaying um a ton i think of practically all
dimension was going through their relayers but um are you finding that they are solid team to work
with absolutely man i think we have the best teams in cosmos to work with in terms of the
technical prowess they have uh yeah very very strong cool um i mean this is not just the the
rebel defy inquisition if anyone's got a question you're more or not just a question the comment
um you're more than welcome to come up and share some wisdom um or mb feel free to step in at any
time i'll just maybe ask one more if that's okay i don't i don't know if you could talk on this
michael because it it is asking about the persistence native token i know some
teams are sort of reluctant to to almost talk about their own token which i always find um
um kind of interesting but yeah i i don't know what the question is but okay i'll i'll go through
it then sorry it's quite a long-winded introduction to the question and like is this is restaking
going to help drive value to xprt and if so i yeah that's an interesting question i mean
i like you rightly said like driving value to token these questions most it's a tricky question
to answer but from my perspective what i would say is any like what are we trying to do with
the persistence chain and we keep saying the ecosystem right the moment you have more liquid
staked assets on a chain it definitely leads to better you know better economies being created
on the chain right or you cannot expect a defy ecosystem being created without having lst's but
what we are talking about with this restaking is like you can actually create a much better
and efficient ecosystem if you use lrt's potentially but with limited risks obviously and not having
huge risks like i think lrt's in ethereum create a lot of additional risk because
like i rightly like i said and maybe you know people here are not familiar with how that works
essentially like if eigenlayer has 10 service providers who want to get security from eigenlayer
all like and rebel here is running a liquid restaking protocol rebel runs different strategies now
rebel says okay my strategy says if there are 10 service providers and each of them has a slashing
has a different slashing parameter but also give more rewards to me right because every service
provider i support i'll get more rewards so rebel is like okay i'll support all of them which means
as an end user you're taking on risk for each of these uh services because you have slashing risk
in like individual service providers services will have their own slashing risk so rebel is
taking on slashing risk for every service that that he's securing through his liquid restaking
strategy uh and and but also giving out the most rewards but the risk is comparatively high on the
flip side i could uh or here you know let's say uh mb could could be smarter and he would be like
okay maybe i don't want that much risk what i want is to only support five services but you know if
those if the rewards that rebel is getting on 10 services securing 10 services is 20 percent
but if if mb is saying okay i'll only secure five but these five generate the highest returns
so if i get 17 from these five i'm not taking on the risk of slashing on the other five right so
that's how eigenlayer liquid restaking strategies would work but here what would happen is uh very
limited risk because you're only securing one chain at a time and and obviously the native
chain itself so two chains at best uh but there could be exciting models where people could go on
to take like pooled security risk and be like okay there's occurring five seven other chains
as well in one stock so from our perspective what we want to drive is is the creation of this
economy where things get exciting and and a lot of tokens exist on the persistence chain we have
other dabs being built out you know by other teams for the persistence ecosystem and we are always
on the lookout for more teams who are looking to build dabs on the chain so once you see all of
this once you see the economy you know obviously uh persistence as an ecosystem will grow and
you know not diving not talking too much about the token and obviously i think for the token
what's very clear is it's a community driven decision xprt is it's a community owned coin and
you know if people feel that okay this is what should happen if there are revenues that should
be distributed to stakers it's it's more or less you know driven by the community and there are
risks associated with that there are pros on you know i don't have any strong views on that to be
honest from my perspective it's about like creating like you know working with teams and and you know
other contributors to like really create that economy of liquid stake tokens
liquid restaking is hard hard to get my head around anyway um i i guess you've been thinking
about this for a while and it it's kind of you forget and i certainly find this when i'm making
videos as well i forget how it might be for someone new coming into the ecosystem like
lp'ing or something and say oh you just do this do that um and that's kind of why i'm
thinking as i'm listening yeah i mean you're absolutely right which is why you know when we
roll out and maybe i'm not doing justice uh to explaining how this would all look like which is
why when we roll things out it would be in a step-by-step manner where the first step is you have
atom or a liquid stake atom you bring it on the persistence chain you lock it up you earn sticking
rewards for atom you earn sticking rewards for xprt you're securing both the persistence chain
and the cosmos hub uh and could do with other liquid stake atoms as well like a st atom q
atom like i mentioned the next step is where things get complicated and and exciting uh but
by that time we'll have exciting mechanisms in place to ensure people can learn how this works
and and also like you know uh yeah gamify the whole experience of using restaking
absolutely well i think this this brings us to um and it hopefully hopefully an exciting part of
this space and there is an nft giveaway there is an alliance stow kind of appropriate for this
space and alliance stow nft which the alliance stow are going to give away to one lucky winner
on this space but it's not just a random giveaway for turning up you actually have to do something
so there is a post in the nest um it's a persistence post they are about 199 000 views
so far which is um pretty impressive so what you have to do to be in for with a chance of winning
this alliance stow nft is retweet that persistence post and also add a comment and the comment can
be one of two comments and based on what you've heard this evening sorry this evening for where i
am so comment one liquid restaking is easy comment two liquid restaking is hard so we'll be looking
for those two comments on that post that's up in the nest um and at some stage after this space
we're going to draw one winner for an alliance dow nft and you have to be on this space so
basically i'm taking screenshots of everyone that's in just now hopefully explain that okay
maybe some thumbs up if you got the explanation thumbs down definitely better than how i extended
it not at all i mean it is i think maybe just a small green interview or you've got here
and yeah so i mean we've gone for about a smb his voice i think can be yeah i was just gonna
jump in there um michael and uh rebel and just um uh perhaps it's worth mentioning what alliance
dow is um so the people know alliance dow is obviously a new dow that's been set up on
enterprise um with an nft collection um called alliance nft and look the purpose of this
dow is to promote and um you know help the development of alliance throughout cosmos
so um i think it's a really appropriate um donation from the alliance dow for this uh
for this space and that one of their nfts has been given away and hopefully we'll hear a lot
more about alliance dow as they you know help with marketing help with promotion let people know about
cross-chain staking and all the things that michael has been describing today so yeah thoughts
worth mentioning that awesome thank you for that extra believer um i can see lots of
dfi heads in this audience and does um re staking or liquid restaking seem like something you'd
like to add to your dfi portfolio
and to be quite honest i have had a tweet ready to go since yesterday um about the persistence
ecosystem um i've been a little bit greedy by not posting it because or a bit selfish maybe
and because there's some amazing aprs over on dextre right now um if if michael can't talk about
tokens i guess i can because a bit of a dfi dgen um yeah stablecoin lp over on dextre last time
i looked it was like 45 percent on stables kind of hard to say no to yeah i would i would only
add maybe rebel you know obviously you're talking about the aprs from my perspective i think dextre
is probably one of the best you know ui ux applications we've built out there like it has
the best i would say you would really enjoy using dextre from a user experience perspective and
you know just give it a try it's app.dextre.zone and if you have feedback you know we'd be very
happy to implement those feedbacks but from my perspective it's more like you know you really
enjoy using an app like that and i do that as well yeah i mean that's that's really what
sort of first attracted me to the persistence one ecosystem um it was just the sort of clean look
of the dextre dextre so yeah personally a big fan obviously high aprs um increase my excitement
over um this kind of product now there is something else that you may want to talk about
but i just want to give everyone here ample chance to come up and comment or question about
these liquid restaking tokens or this this idea of restaking and using persistence
but if there is no one here we can carry on mb have you got anything you want to talk about
or ask about the the restaking before we move on no uh no i'm just taking it all in but um look
i'm really quite excited about you know what persistence is doing with this liquid staking
hub on cosmos um you know integrating you know all the major apex assets into a into a single
chain and you have really leveraging to leveraging them um through alliance um it is great it's a
it's a great concept and i think it's going to be really exciting what develops in the next the next
year cool we do actually have someone coming up jasper is trying to connect um it looks like jasper
has connected jasper can you hear us i don't know if you're on mobile or desktop but if you want
i'm struggling to hear i don't know if anyone else can hear
maybe a bit closer to the mic if you can
can you hear me hey you can hear you now jasper yep all right all right gm gm
okay um actually um i read about persistence on um block meat profits then um i read what
they are doing and um my question what i want to ask now is that um if i'm sticking for example
atom i'll be giving what exactly would i be giving like tea steak or steak atom
when you liquid steak atom uh you get stk atom which is the steak representative of atom
which is issued by p-stake so p-stake is the protocol that issues liquid steak
atom okay okay all right and the um the prospects of these um persistence is that
when i stake i'll be giving a liquid uh token which i can use in other ecosystem i don't know
can you like mention few of the other protocol that i can use your i mean your liquid steak
token that you'll be giving to me after i stake the atom or yeah yeah so you could supply liquidity
on dexter which is the dex that rebel was just talking about so you could provide liquidity of
stk atom and atom together you bring those two assets together and you put them in an indexer
uh so you're earning staking rewards but you're also earning liquidity provisioning rewards right
so you're providing liquidity you earn some rewards for that as well uh you could use it
as collateral on other protocol so like umi are now called ux chain you can go on ux chain you
can deposit stk atom there as collateral and borrow against it you can deposit stk atom as
collateral on mars you can use stk atom and supply liquidity on astroport uh soon you would
be able to mint uh scoogeras stablecoin usk with it uh after that you could also use it to mint
inter protocols uh you know ist so yeah so all these things okay that's really nice that's
really nice i actually have no idea of where i can use the token so that's why i came out to
and it's really nice do you have any idea of um any of these protocols that will be giving future
a drops for providing collateral using your your token uh i don't know man hi there drops
are very speculative so i i'm not really sure most of these are are already live with their tokens so
not sure all right thank you very much thanks jasper that that was interesting contribution
talking of airdrops there was something that um persistence have done recently i think to to
make it possible for holders of stk atom to potentially get airdrops or for for projects
to query who is holding stk atom or something like that does that ring a bell yeah yeah absolutely
so very recently you know uh we started seeing atom holders receive a lot of atoms
stickers receive a lot of airdrops and uh with these teams doing all these different airdrops
what we wanted to do was to provide them with a source for how they could get data for stk
atom holders so if you're an atom sticker you're obviously getting sticking sticking towards an
airdrop these days but projects newer projects are not or haven't always done an airdrop for
liquid stakers yet in cosmos and i believe that's going to change very soon uh but for them to be
able to do that airdrop like a team can always you know extract data for atom stickers very easily
but can they do it for liquid staked atom holders or it's actually slightly complicated so what we've
tried to do is create a unified interface where you could say okay stk atom holder or stk osmo holder
or other stk asset holders and you could just fetch all the data of their holdings and how they
are holding stk atom where are they providing liquidity and stuff like that starting with the
persistence chain but then taking it across the persistent like other other chains as well so if
stk atom is supplied as liquidity on astroport then getting that data at a later stage obviously
uh but this makes things a lot more easier for newer project teams that that want to do airdrops
to atom stakers and liquid stake atom yeah awesome we've got lunar dino up um as a speaker
i think for him it was probably um liquid restaking is easy he's above a defy big brain
so lunar dino over to you hey thanks for inviting me up um i just had a question it can be rather
political which lsd is you allowed to be staked on persistence so i'm glad you guys are going
with a more agnostic approach and i'm a bit fearful for how you might tread into this territory
um but best of luck and i'm wondering if they're all going to have the same
reward weight weight and if they will have any take rate for for example the three lsd lunas that
um are available are they all just automatically going to be whitelisted or have you reached out
to specific teams if you can forge partnerships with them to kind of leverage those relationships
very good question yeah there's so many other ones you know like st injected will that automatically
be whitelisted or and then the second question is do you have you reached out to any vault providers
for anyone to provide like an auto compounding vault for these um for these new alliance assets
thank you yeah a very good question so on the first like taking it step by step obviously
political and um i personally would not be comfortable making that decision either so
we'd let xprt token holders make that decision on on both the take rates and the reward weightages
i think obviously xprt stakers would have more uh you know upside in choosing st cassettes to have
like the highest reward weightages but i don't know how it would play out i think it's in the
best interest of everyone to have similar reward rate reward weightages and take rates so
to begin with i think and as things progress and and as we see the progress if there is one
particular asset that is being utilized more than the others then it makes sense for that
asset to have a higher for other assets to have a higher reward weightages so that we hedge against
you know just one being one asset being deposited at all times in terms of the second question for
vault providers absolutely we haven't started reaching out for uh for that yet but it's
something on on our to-do uh and and i think we'll start doing this as soon as we get closer to to
launch but but the first question is definitely an interesting one i would love to hear what you
think of it you know yeah yeah i mean it's um i think currently there are a couple of chains
doing it differently for example with the lsd learners i forget which chain is which but one
it has an equal reward rate for every single lsd luna so if you have a bunch of people
aping into like amp luna it's going to give a lower reward rate compared to the other ones
whereas if there's another chain maybe it's carbon that has a floating reward weight so even
if everyone amps into amp luna it gives you the same rate as um b luna or something and yeah again
these kind of political questions are difficult to navigate and good luck
yeah it's for token holders to navigate
awesome thank you for that question luna or dino um i guess we're kind of moving towards the end
of the space so thank you very much michael for being here um as well as the man of mystery behind
the persistence account i mean one thing maybe we could sort of round this space off with um i mean
restaking until like the alliance module gets installed on persistence still a bit theoretical
at this stage um but i've just dropped a post another another post from persistence um up in
the nest and and this is i would say kind of instant alpha um you've got a major release
coming out a bit later today would you like to expand on that at all yeah absolutely uh we've
been working on on showing liquids take dy dx uh on the persistence chain for a while now and
it's no secret that this is gonna go live today it's been live on the mainnet for a while now but
we like to take a very uh security first approach where we always make sure anything that grows on
chain is as secure as possible so having to wait for a security audit to go through before we
proceed with the launch and i'm personally very excited about this one because the dy dx
community is huge i think it's one of the more successful app chains within cosmos and
it presents a huge opportunity for you know stakers of dy dx to to get involved in liquid
staking and i think dy dx token holders have a very similar profile to to eat holders because
they come from the ethereum ecosystem uh with dy dx token previously being an erc20 token
and so i'm curious to see how it all plays out but very excited about this one man yeah
yeah i'm on a personal level i'm excited for it as well i mean it's no secret although i don't
know if everyone knew this but um orbital command we're validating on the dy dx chain um and we seem
to be doing all right at the start but then some whales came in and dropped some massive delegations
on some other validators unfortunately we didn't manage to pick up um a whale bag so we then got
booted out of the set i actually had some dy dx staked through orbital command and i only got
around to moving it or not moving it actually unstaking it today which was maybe sort of this
silly on my part um and my rewards were like less than one dollar usdc but then when i tried
to claim my rewards it told me the cost to claim the rewards was going to be more than
my rewards so essentially i've earned nothing um having staked my dy dx for over a month
um maybe two months and now i've got to wait 29 30 days to get my dy dx back
before i can turn it into stk dy dx so yeah it is super exciting for people who are interested in
dy dx um because i think we can sort of get two bites of the cherry so what i'm going to be doing
is staking my dy dx for stk dy dx um staves me the bother of trying to claim rewards which
in the instance i had today i wasn't even able to claim it um but also so that's one thing i'm
going to get autocompounding dy dx going back to dexter i'm just going to check it um i think
there's an lp on the extra usdc dy dx which was hovering about 90 percent apr earlier on today um
and as a dy dx bull um obviously not financial advice i'm going to be joining that pool as well
um and what is good for me i'm not telling anyone to do anything and what's good for me here
is that the more people that end up using stk dy dx um all the autocompounded rewards
are going to flow through this pool on dexter so the usdc is going to get turned into dy dx
to then get rolled into the autocompounded position um and the pool at the moment isn't
huge so swap fees are going to give the uh the apr a bump um i'm not sure how much but i've got
a feeling we might be seeing triple digit apr on that pool um so as long as dy dx holds its price
or goes up and we are if we're moving into a bull market i'm hoping it's going to move up um
i think that's quite a nice pool for me personally to join anyone in the space can do whatever they
want to do i'm not telling you to do anything but yeah just be aware of that um lp
michael and on that note um i'd like to thank your good self for being here mb you've maybe
dropped out because of that diatribe i was going on about lp and he's not a fan of lp and so maybe
i just turned him off too much is there anything you would like to mention before we shut this
dive in michael not at all um i'll just say uh you know a quick thank you to you rebel and
everyone who's joined and obviously thank you to the uh folks who built such phenomenal tech
you know the alliance the people behind alliance uh module and and you know we are very happy and
excited to be working closely on that friend and you know take this forward nothing you know there
are exciting days ahead for cosmos as an ecosystem of course absolutely and i think that's one thing
that's really shining through is that you're not um oh i mean obviously a persistence employee but
um you're not a well you're not just chilling persistence um it is about growth of the whole
ecosystem i think as you were saying we don't just talk about growing the pie but like everyone
succeeds if cosmos grows um so i think that's a really great way absolutely absolutely thank you
thank you everyone thank you everyone for being here thank you michael for coming up and just
taking questions quick fire thrown at you um terror spaces will be doing an upload of this
twitter space um so if you want to relisten some of this stuff um go and check that out thanks
everyone and hopefully see you again soon thank you guys have a good day evening or night
wherever you are thank you no come on man have a bad night
um yes awesome see you later guys thank you bye