something's wrong with my mic
just throw me some emojis if you can hear me
alright we're gonna get started here in just a moment
just get started here in a moment oh no we're doing another beanie a-m-a
what the fuck I'm gonna see you in the intro
you want me to say something so bad?
definitely a little bright
I'm breaking their hearts
bitches be quick but I'm quicker
bitches be thick but I'm thicker
she could be rich but I'm richer
I used to do my little dance
once I'm a baddie I get what I want
and the lefty I look like a punk
I got the daddy he just want a hunk
well the poor start shaking my hips
I'm a dick when I stack up my tips
just but dummy I want the whole fit
I got a fresh nigga sending me tips
God, nigga you the shit bitch
she a baddie she show her panties
but I'm still shaking ass in the dummy
he want the one but I just keep the ready
and I'm packing his pot and I'm petty
bring me that B1 he eating my honey
you know niggas little bitches with money
if you ain't cooking then get off the pot
passenger princess he pass me his knock
baddest little bitch with my block
me and baddest be getting along
so they always be singing my song
stepping outside I'ma put that shit on
you know I'ma get to the back
or the hand bitches to the back
look if Ice Spice creates an NFT project
y'all appreciate y'all for popping out
I'd say we have a good show planned
but you guys assume that I plan any of this stuff
hopefully everybody had a good day
we got the Jupiter airdrop tomorrow
maybe we'll bust out the quantum cats
we just do ordinals a rug
I don't know what you guys want to talk about
we're going to do a quick little
traffic weather report here
our sponsor for the month
your number one provider of all things
essentially the entire month of
probably the next 2-3 weeks
and I really really appreciate them
I'm going to pin some stuff up to the top
and yeah you guys can go check it out
we're going to get into it
Yo is Avax really up another 18% today
what is going on with Avax?
I mean it's been performing well this year
but at least in the past couple of months
not really too much going with prices
let's look at some NFTs here
I'm actually going to the OpenSea office on Friday
so I'll let you guys know how that is
and give you the scoop from the inside
Azuki is $6,988 for the thousand
he traded over the past day
retracing just a little bit
Doodles are sitting at $2,3
they've seen quite a bit of growth recently
and Romelio Babies at $0,7
surprising but not surprising
Bitbears by BearChain trending today at $5,7
a lot of people are excited about BearChain
I'm still not even entirely sure what BearChain is
but they've got a bunch of bear NFTs
that are like fucking super expensive
Alright, let's go over to Madge Eden
Bitcoin Poppet is at $0.05
Fergana, the number one cabal
NFT of the salon blockchain
have not seen way too many people talking about CryptoUndeads recently
but maybe they'll make a comeback
I've been seeing this collection all over the timeline
which I guess is a play on Quantum Cats
I've also been seeing these all over the timeline
I'm waiting for Plano's to pop
I'm holding my Plano's steady
wow they have a lot of collections here on the launchpad thing
those are the prices of the day
there's a lot to talk about
I have this article here from Vitalik
about developers should tread lightly
and carefully when they're mixing crypto and AI
so we'll talk about that here in a moment too
I also shot my shot at Vitalik
I need you guys to fucking help me here
I'm gonna pin this up to the top
gracefully ask that you engage in this pinned tweet at the top
I would love to interview Vitalik at ETH Denver
99% chance he does not respond to this
you never know and that would be pretty cool
so AI has stolen some of crypto's luster over the past year
a Silicon Valley obsessed with Web 3
and the metaverse seems to have turned its attention
entirely towards large language models or LLMs
some blockchain projects have tried to take advantage of the new AI hype
but while crypto startups like Worldcoin
the identity firm from OpenAI founder Sam Altman
by the way, Sam Altman got married, I don't know if you guys saw that
anyway, have found use cases that straddle both worlds
many AI-flavored crypto projects tend to feel like they're more buzz than substance
whatever the potential pitfalls, according to Ethereum co-founder Vitalik
the intersection between crypto and AI still holds promise
in a blog post released on Tuesday
Vitalik delivered his thoughts on where crypto and AI tech might collide in the coming years
though he also took care to warn that there might be some challenges
using the analogy of a quote, game
Vitalik divided the potential overlaps between AI and blockchain
into four distinct categories
the most viable category, according to Vitalik
contains applications where AI acts as a player in a game
so actually that's something similar to even what
am I forgetting the name right now?
at a high level, this category captures apps
where the ultimate source of incentives come from a protocol with human inputs
an example of this would be a prediction market
AI can be used to predict the outcome of a given event
and a blockchain-based mechanism can enforce the rules
around how much the AI or the person operating
it should be rewarded or penalized based on its guess
the next category, which Vitalik tags as high potential but high risk
includes applications where AI acts as an interface to the game
in these apps, AI is used to help users understand the crypto world around them
and ensure their behavior matches their intention
Vitalik gives the example of a scam detection feature
like the one used in the metamask crypto wallet
to warn users if they might be interacting with a deceptive application
sub features could be supercharged by AI's enhanced detection
and explanatory capabilities
the third category defined by Vitalik describes apps
where the AI dictates the rules of the game
think AI judges, he explained, warning that one should tread
very carefully when exploring this problem's space
an obvious crypto use case here would be to help DAOs
or decentralized autonomous organizations
make subjective decisions using AI
Vitalik's fourth category
for the potential intermarriage of AI and crypto includes
which he seems to be a big fan of
um, wait, this can't be right
is this a parody article?
this longer term category involves using blockchains as infrastructure
for building better AI models
while Vitalik says he is more optimistic than he once was
about the intersections between AI and crypto
he does see potential challenges with balancing the transparency of crypto
with the customary opaqueness of quote
in cryptography, open source is the only way to make something truly secure
but in AI, a model, or even its training data
being open greatly increases its vulnerability
to adversarial machine learning attacks
I mean, I've always thought that
in regards to AI, blockchain could be good
and we know this, but used for proof of identity
but I have been talking to people recently about it
and they said that blockchain is just not fast enough
you know, that, I don't know if that's entirely true
I'm not really an expert on that, but whatever
also, Visa enables crypto withdrawals on debit cards
in 145 countries, that's pretty interesting
so SEC likely to approve spot Ethereum ETFs
on May 23rd, which is interesting
the Securities and Exchange Commission is expected to follow the strategy
employed in improving spot Bitcoin exchange traded funds
starting with rejections and ultimately granting approval
on the initial final deadline on May 23rd
according to the standard chartered bank
we expect pending applications for the ETH US spot ETFs
to be approved on May 23rd
the final deadline for the first of the ETFs
under consideration, the equivalent date to January 10
so if ETH prices perform similarly to how BTC prices perform
in the lead up to the BTC ETF approval
ETH could trade as high as $4,000 by then
look, if ETH goes to $4,000 in the next few months
I will literally shit and piss everywhere
Kendrick Forsees, who is the...
Jeffrey Kendrick is the head of standard chartered banks
Forex and Digital Asset Research
so he foresees the approval to spot Ethereum ETFs
that the SEC has not categorised Ether
as a security in its legal actions against crypto companies
and the listing of ETH as a regulated futures contract
on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange
adds weight to this expectation
Grayscale also has an ETH trust that it wants to turn into an ETF
so a denial of that application would likely lead to another appeal
adding that we see no fundamental reason
for the SEC to view ETH differently
than the CME already does
so Kendrick generally holds an optimistic outlook on crypto
especially regarding price trends
earlier this month before spot Bitcoin ETFs were approved
he said those funds are expected to attract inflows
of $50 to $100 billion this year
and as a result, Bitcoin price could rise to $100,000
by the end of the year and $200,000 by the end of 2025
Ordinal maxis will be in uproar when Bitcoin is $200,000
and they will be insufferable on the timeline
if Bitcoin goes to $200,000 these ordinal MFers are going to be insufferable
so Bitcoin price declined after spot Bitcoin ETF approvals
mainly due to the outflows from Grayscale Bitcoin Trust
that has since bounced back and is currently trading around $43,000
Kendrick said ETH is less susceptible to the post-approval selling that Bitcoin saw
and the key reason for this is that the Grayscale Ethereum Trust
has a much smaller share of total ETH market cap
than the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust did before the approval of the BTC ETFs
and within that, FTX holdings are even lower, he noted
so Ethereum ETFs that include staking yields to be approved later as well
so on May 23rd, Kendrick only expects simple Ethereum ETFs
to replicate Ether price movements to get approved
all ETFs that include staking yield rewards may be introduced later
he said, both types, can you imagine normies buying ETFs
that have staking yields just built into them?
That's pretty interesting
Kendrick also commented on Ethereum's upcoming Denkin
or Proto-Dank sharding upgrade
and said it would benefit from Ether price
overall this upgrade would see more value captured within the ETH ecosystem
as lower layer 2 fees make ETH more competitive
and slower staking should keep staking rewards higher for longer
both of these are positive for ETH prices, he concluded
so as a whole, crypto experts have been both optimistic and pessimistic
what do you mean it's both optimistic and pessimistic?
that doesn't tell me anything
also if you guys want to come up on stage, click that request button
in the bottom left hand corner
if you want to do me a favor, click that button
in the bottom right hand corner and give it a like, comment, retweet
so anyway I was on a tweeting rampage today
though I did delete some of my tweets
yeah let's go through them
also I totally wrote this and it totally wasn't chat GPT
it was the night before the Jupiter airdrop
when all through the net, not a trader was stirring, not even a bet
the wallets were hung by the desktop with care
in hopes that the tokens soon would be there
utility should be built by the community not just the project
I feel like this is a take I've been giving in spaces for a long time now
also I had this other post
the hyper normalization of shilling vaporware has become so prevalent on the timeline
we should not accept the stance that
quote people just want to gamble
what did I write here I can't even remember
yes people want and love to gamble
but the sense that I actually
I'm pretty sure I made up this word
and when I was reading it out loud I couldn't even pronounce it
people want slash love to gamble
has become commonplace in a way that's so incredibly destructive
to the core use cases of this technology
I trade meme coins and I think they can be fun and exciting
but I refuse to believe that utility was a lie
I recognize that utility has not come to fruition
for 99% of projects over the past few years
but to concede that speculation
is the only purpose of these assets
is not only ignorant but dangerous
it has become socially accepted to believe
that nothing is in fact something
and while nothing can definitely be something
this should not be the baseline
DeFi has become meme-fi and that's totally fine
I believe memes are modern day hieroglyphics
they are universally understood images
that can convey feelings, a moment in time
or even different sensations
but I'm not here to argue the value of memetic culture
I think it's purpose is obvious
but the phrase it's a meme has been so overly used
to mask the fact that there isn't any true value
whether cultural or utilitarian
and then I got flamed for both tweets
got flamed for both tweets
why are people coming at you on the timeline
why is everybody saying, Jonah
he doesn't know anything about games
he doesn't build anything
they're unfollowing you, Jonah what's going on
can anybody on stage say anything
can you guys, oh it's glitched
we're gonna have to reopen the space
are you fucking kidding me
can you guys try to speak
I don't know what happened
Jonah, like why is everybody screaming
they're coming at you, they're saying you don't know anything about games
you never played a game in your life
what's going on, Jonah, talk to me
they always do that, what do you mean
when are they not done yet
isn't that like a regular thing
it's like a hate Jonah week every week
it's just from a different community
sometimes it's Mahalo, sometimes
it's Hugo, sometimes it's
the gods, they take your pick
unfollowed me after our space last night
Alex Lynn is a shock, so who cares
I actually, I felt like I gave him quite a few
compliments last night, I felt I was like in defense
of the project, but maybe my
title kind of set people off
I really spoke to several gaming people
he doesn't have a very good reputation
manufacturer people who I'm friends with
and they told me the MSRP that he's charging
in fact he could charge it about $100
I think it was like what, 300 and
something dollars for a keyboard
I actually, and I wasn't joking
if he wants to sell me Valhalla
Jonah, I feel like you offer
to buy a different entity
I offered to buy Valhalla, sorry
what's the other anime one?
no hold up, you were trying to buy aliens
he was trying to buy Easter also
no no no no no I never had any interest
in Alien fans, it was Ether and Valhalla
only anime related things I was interested in
yeah, Alien friends scare me
so you wanted to buy Ether and Valhalla
also quite frankly I was way more interested
in Ether, I think the art's better
I think, I mean they're just different
a fucking Walmart Azuki and the other one's different
Rex, where are you from right now?
dude, dude I'm grounded but we're still back
we're kind of back, that's all you guys need to know
okay, sounds like you're in a fucking escalator
like not riding an escalator but in an escalator
um, which I didn't even think was possible
look, y'all thought you were the ship and you ain't even the fart
um, I just wanna say this
you're trying to buy Ether, you're trying to buy Valhalla
not trying, I just said if they're open to it
and like message them, I just open call
if they don't wanna do it, that's fine
are you gonna pull a moose here and then offer
one million dollars more every day for two months
no, I'll offer less every day
I, I actually like the art of Valhalla
well, the art's not bad but like
basically they looked at Valorant and they said do that
I do think it's like a mix of Valorant and Azuki actually
I, I still think the art is really nice
I'm not gonna lie, it might be like not the most original thing
but it's clean, it's done well
I think what I like is all the other stuff was done pretty well
like the branding's good, like the concept is good
and it's um, it's a gaming community
primarily, or at least it's supposed to be
so like that would be a good acquisition for us
that was the only thing, but you know
I'm sure he's not gonna offer it
you know, he should sell it
and focus on his dream of feeding Twitch somehow
speaking of Twitch, Pokemon
is leaving Twitch and is reportedly being offered
that's fake news, if she takes that
she's gonna get clown for like the rest of her career
no, I don't think it's because even Kick
I think they tweeted something
if she takes that deal, her career is over
and she'll just take the money and walk away
what do you mean her career is over?
she is known as the single biggest advocate
yeah, she's anti, I understand that
so if you take a Kick bag, which is Stake.com
as you've been preaching from your high horse
about how bad gambling is
bro, look at, okay, if you go to the Kick page
right now, they quote, Kick quote tweeted
Pokemon saying the end of an era
and they did their Kick announcement thing
but with her cookies, you know, those cookies
well, all I'm saying is that if she actually takes that bag
after being that level of a hypocrite
I just got, like, I have no respect for her
I respect, I honestly respect the boldness
she's like, yeah, I'm gonna just backtrack on it
dude, her whole identity has become anti-gambling on Twitch
so, quite frankly, if she flips like
like, here's the thing, if you're gonna be an asshole, be consistent
that's why people hate to be around me
but still have to deal with me
what the hell's going on?
I feel like I'm in a fever dream
well, I'm up here, so probably
basically, the Yuga people are mad at me
because I flooded their CEO
because he made a comment that was gaming blasphemy
alright, hold on, hold on
alright, let's get to it, so
I'm assuming you're talking about Daniel Alegre
which, by the way, I'm trying to get an interview with him right now
so don't blow this for me, Jonah
but Jonah, what did you say to him?
I didn't say anything to him, I just posted
I said that he literally said that Doogie Dash
is more exciting in his career than Diablo 4
and I thought that was ridiculous
you're talking like, one is
one is literally like the pinnacle of
and the other one is a mobile game
which is fine, like there's nothing wrong with Doogie Dash
I'm just saying, you can't really compare the two
I actually completely disagree
so, let me just tell you why
no, I can't wait to hear it
so, just because I don't have the context of what exactly you said
that Doogie Dash was more exciting within his career than Diablo
one of the more exciting, yeah
and I'll go back to the recording and listen
but from what I heard, because I was listening to it live
Nick, it was either Nick or Bunny
one of them asked the question saying
I forget what the question was
what is his most exciting project
and I'm like, this guy has worked at Google
basically on the ground floor of YouTube
worked on Call of Duty or Diablo
or whatever he made at Activision in his two years
and you're telling me in the entire span of your career
the thing that it likes you most
going through a toilet journey
that was my comment that I thought was funny
and I think that's a funny thing to comment on
and the aides got really upset
is because they're going to spend a lot of money on these games
and so people will win money
and when there's money involved
it doesn't matter what you have to say fund-wise
but again, I'm consistent in my opinions
and if people want to unfollow me
because they don't like it, then so be it
it's not really my problem
I'm going to unfollow you because I'm a follower
John, okay, I'll say this
so I actually can understand his perspective
because if you just think of excitement
let's say you've been working at Activision
for a long time, he's there
he didn't work there that long
he did not finish a full game cycle
by the way, just for the record
I'm not shitting on Allegra for that
I think 17 years at Google
is fucking crazy and he's probably
funny comment and a funny
joke when you compare Diablo to Dookie Dash
that's all I said, that doesn't make Dookie Dash a bad game
it's just that one comment
yeah, it's just a game about buttholes
let me just give my take here
I don't think anybody is debating that
Diablo 4 is probably not only a mark
no, no, you should read my comments
personally me, I would not
or a visually exciting game
I love Diablo, I played Diablo 2, Diablo 3
I played Diablo 3 for a really long time
holds a really special place in my heart
that being said, Diablo 4 is
a fucking rinse and repeat, slightly
updated graphical experience
with no innovative concepts
and nothing that makes it stand out
Path of Exile is much better than Diablo 4
that good as far as ARPGs go
and it's actually quite the disappointment
but it's still better than anything in Web 3
ok, in terms of actual gameplay
and being a game in terms of fun, yes
but in terms of excitement
innovation and something new
you gotta admit that even though Dookie Dash is
a quite simple game, I mean it's essentially a
temple run clone or a subway surfer
blockchain integrated, it does have digital assets
excitement and innovation level, I can understand
his comment of like, yeah
this is the forefront of what gaming
can be, even if it's in it's most
primordial form, in which to him
personally is much more exciting than
just a brand, just like basically the next
sequel in a game that's been out for 30
actually don't disagree with his comment
at all, I would also say that Dookie Dash
is more exciting than Diablo 4
you got the Jupiter airdrop
It's too late, but it gets dropped tomorrow and
there's nothing you can do about it, like if you got
the money, you got the money
Can't really just look at that PFP for a second, that
What are we looking at here?
drop you a follow, hold up, drop you a follow
it's wearing fucking military garb
operator, steak with Cardano
ticker ADA Madbull, ticker Turbo
yes, this is the ADA people's
friend for life, friend for
alright, hold, ok, alright
wait, wait, so what, you said you wanted to come up here and learn
so it's too late, is that what you're saying, Jonah?
too late to qualify for it, they
they did the snapshot a long time ago
um, now you can still like
participate in the potential upside
of like buying it, or providing
I actually think the biggest win is if you provide LP
but like, you have to be careful, cause it's a little bit
um, he's got a hundred and
ten thousand Jupiter, if he's not dumping
then I don't, I'm very confused
on what, if you're, are we saying this
is the next Uniswap, is that what the comparison is?
it's a governance token, you think any
one of these people's gonna re-level
the token launch is tomorrow
they dropping tomorrow, or what?
I can buy it tomorrow on Jupiter
I mean supposedly, I'm kind of mad
cause I can't see if there's like
I actually, I gotta find this
fuck, I gotta, the red guy sent this to me
I gotta find it, it's basically
on the token, and whether it
has utility, or blah blah blah, let me see if I can find it
on the field is a character
is this the one that's like the smart cat
that has like a fondant stuff?
okay, how could Joan Akiro
and Emlo are the only ones on stage that have a
mic that's worth more than 45 cents
I don't understand what's going on here
I'm gonna try and find this post
this is actually really interesting
um, wired Apple headphones with the Alpha
let me see if I can find it
sorry, I should have been
a great noise in your space
lesson one of being a spaces host
I'm just gonna fill the void
with me rambling so that way you have an ability
guys, I gotta make sure that the stage is prepped
while I'm looking for this
even though we were gonna have a gaming conversation
what do you guys think about
the beanie thing last night?
that shit was out of pocket
wait, what was out of pocket about it?
I think the people didn't have any
concrete evidence that they
knew off the top of their head
they kept pointing to a long ass thread
that I actually think the thread
that they were pointing to, I'm not defending
beanie but I happened to think that NFT ethics
was debunked at a certain point
I don't remember specifically but I vaguely
but I'm saying his credibility was taken away
that they were pointing to that they could have pointed to
other evidence, they just didn't know what they were talking about
you were to have another conversation with him
you should just be a little bit, obviously
you didn't have time to repair but
it would have been helpful if there were
other people that also were
call him out on this bullshit
I definitely wasn't, I didn't know if this space was
going to happen and I never would
have thought in a million years that we would just have
beanie and do a one on one
interested in whether he's
a scammer or not, I know this may
I don't know, it's not a conversation that was
super interesting to me, I actually preferred to
hear his takes on just like
more generalized crypto things, NFTs
and I actually disagreed with a lot of them
and I thought our conversation
it's just like a rinse and repeat
of people accusing him of stuff and
he probably did most of the things that people
are accusing him of, realistically
that bad of me to be like, I just don't
I don't know, like it just
there are a lot of people that have
done really bad things in crypto and
they never get any hate for it
and then there's others who do really bad things
and get a ton of hate for it, and that's just kind of the way things
anyway, I got a lot of hate
in the DMs too about that space as well
people are like, you're platforming a scammer
you're giving him airtime, whatever
people enjoy hating, it's
a common past time and people forget
yeah, John, everyone's coming at you on a daily basis
they tell them things they don't want to hear
wait, what are you telling them
that they don't want to hear, John?
things, the world outside
of Twitter, which is a much bigger place
okay, I found the tweet, so this from Meow
and somebody asked him, this was a month ago
said, is there any utility plan for the
topic that I dove into many times before
and I would like to take a chance to be very clear about
how I think about it and advise everyone
not to be involved in Jupiter if you expect
a lot of focus on the utility aspect
my following statements will be controversial
so feel free to debate them
the core reason is this, I believe that the idea
of utility of a token drives value
is a myth, created to justify why
things have value, or by project founders
who are desperate to explain why their token has value
and I believe that most people
could care less about utility, but rather
this endless focus on utility causes everyone
to make a ton of bad decisions, make endless rounds
of tokenomics that end up in small spikes
but flatten back down and over time
John, do you agree or disagree?
I was honestly looking at some game stuff
just now, can you repeat one more sentence
I don't mean to be offensive, because I am here as like a
I can't do this with these gaming efforts
you have to understand that unlike
most web 3 companies that just follow
a trend, I am very laser focused
and I will stick to that for years on end
literally since 2019, I've been in web 3 gaming
what game do you play, Jonah?
what game am I playing right now?
what do you mean in general, like a game I always
yeah, like, what's your favorite game?
like, that's crazy, that's like
like, what's my favorite food, I mean
my favorite franchise ever is Halo
I don't like the new halos
dude, that was like my life
Halo 2 especially, it's just like
I'm so pissed that Paramount's fucking up Halo
why did they take off his fucking helmet?
Paul Shriver's fucking face for Halo
you know the thing about Halo is I
so I didn't grow up in the Xbox era
like at the time I was playing much more like
Nintendo games and even PC games
and this is going to sound blasphemous because I
recognize that Halo is one of the most important
series ever created, like a defined
and the Forge and everything
that was like the original UGC based game
I recently tried to play the Master Chief
Collection and I just, maybe I wasn't
playing it multiplayer or whatever the thing is
no, the thing that wears off, dude
all of our brains are melted by TikTok
in a generation that actually
moving game was actually the meta
now if it's not like Apex Legends
and I'm not doing like a triple
decker Olympic gold medal
I'm not going to be interested
grew up with gaming, they're going to say their favorite
nostalgia game is Titanfall
because Titanfall was like the first
other than like, I think there was like Mirror's Edge
but that wasn't really FPS. Anyway
your audience doesn't care about what I'm saying
here when it comes to that, so do you want to keep
talking about Yuga Fudd? Do you want to keep talking about
I know people on 3 just want to talk about
gambling, so I'm happy to do that
to make an interesting point
kind of my tweet referred to it earlier today that everyone
just does want to talk about gambling, but I
actually don't think that's the case
and I think people are mostly participating
in the gambling side of it because I have nothing
else really to do. Like truthfully
if you were to, like I just
don't believe that everybody's here because they
want to gamble. Like it's just fucking
insanity. It's the most ridiculous
take and I keep hearing it over and over again
I just think there's not much for people to do
outside of it. So I agree with that
so let me make it specific
I think the way Twitter spaces are
structured as a content studio
and this is not like, I'm not saying you do this
to be here 24-7 on a space
doesn't really need to be opined on for more
once you get past hour two, people are like
what are we going to talk about? And
water cooler conversations. What's the
fucking weather like? Where did you
go to? Who did you sleep with?
And that always happens in spaces. That's why
Jonah, who'd you sleep with?
never sleeps with anyone.
But what I was going to say
I'm going through that flash bang in my brain
the best water cooler discussion
water cooler discussion since the fucking
Roman times is spectator sport
founders succeed or fail is
a fantastic spectator sport.
is a great storyline. Watching
fucking Beanie get called a scammer and then
fucking, I don't know, talk about
how much he wants to make love to say again
for the 90th time that are why
he shouldn't exist because he's a traitor
and you know, traders deserve more than anyone else.
interesting story. Like, Jonah
said that Daniel Legre smells
bad or some shit. Like, oh,
okay, well like, we're going to start an unfollow
brigade. That's fun. Let's talk about that.
These are all water cooler things and the
ultimate water cooler discussion is gamble
because it's the easiest thing for everyone
But the real world doesn't care about that.
Well, not all the real world.
Here's the other thing where
belief that people don't want to talk about gambling
and this is very dystopian
so I hope I'm not going to kill your mood by this.
But the world is increasingly
from an inflation and economic
chance of never having the opportunity
and I think what happened
during COVID is a lot of people
in crypto who were not going to
have that shot or didn't get the right luck
of the draw when they were born or have the right
intelligence or whatever the case
found these identities that they wore
online which gave them a second life
and made them feel some sort of way
that they had a second chance
is hitting from the penalty
they are now coming back down from this high
what do you do when you're a drug addict
and you have this idea that you have another chance
at life, you cling on to that
off a drug, they get very angry,
and the idea of talking about
reality just doesn't work. So what has replaced
because if I can't make it all
back on an NFT, guess where I
once you get a taste for the fast life,
to think about the idea of
being a construction worker again
job that doesn't have that same thrill.
and they are slowly coming back to reality
so the natural reaction is okay if I
can't get the high there I'll get it through gambling
and by the way this is not just a crypto problem
I think it's a United States and global
go look at how many gambling ads
I want you to watch the Super Bowl in
how many gambling ads there are.
This is like way beyond crypto, we're just a
really good sample size for what's coming for the
Even like sports gambling
as a concept or as a thing
to me growing up and it's like one of those things you just
kind of hear about and you think of
somebody in like a Vegas, like a bookie
cigar, like throwing money down
on the game, whatever. Now
and like I'll watch the games occasionally
with my friends, whatever, we'll just throw it on
of the time there is at least one or
two people with us that have money down on the game.
maybe that's just what happens when you get older
and like people just gamble a little bit more
but it's become so accessible.
No, it used to not happen a lot. That's what I'm telling you
that this has become the new norm
and it's a post-pandemic reaction.
saying. Like if you go look at all the
I mean gambling but streamers call it Gamba
right? Go look at the trends
across the board other than esports betting
that shit's not doing that well in America but great in
Europe. Fucking skyrocketed bro
like it's never been a better time
to be in the casino, online casino
business. Like the ones who survive
which are basically steak, dude
they're printing beyond belief. It's
that even the states want to get it
on it. And I know because as much
as Lior says that what am I
doing? I'm actually building. I've actually written bills
in Ohio and I can tell you
that just like legalizing
fawning over the idea of this revenue
it's only going to get bigger. Like
industry is only going to get bigger unless
America somehow decides they had
has a crackdown. But I don't see that happening
not angry. Remember, in a
bad economy the goal is to just
how do you do that? Give them a pacifier. What's a pacifier?
You missed the most obvious
one, Jonah. And by the way,
that's another one, prostitution.
Okay, that wasn't the one
I was thinking of, but shout out.
And by the way, I'm somebody
who enjoys cannabis once in a while.
weed is like in my opinion
probably the number one fucking pacifier
and I mean like as someone who
I think that they make that shit legal
just because it makes people shut the fuck up
and it also is a great tax
revenue source. But here's
but I don't want to get into conspiracies
but anyway here's a stat, Jonah. So in the United States alone
sports bettors are nearly three
times more likely to pace their
bets online rather than in person
and you know you're kind of
referencing that this is like a post pandemic thing
also think a big part of it is like the Robin Hood
Syndrome, if you could say. Like
when Robin Hood basically came on the scene
and said fucking it's so easy now
for you to trade stocks and we're not charging commission
they brought in an entire generation
of people that would not have traded otherwise
and I actually think that Robin Hood is
one of the most innovative products
that we have seen in the past probably like
40 years. I mean it changed
my life personally and introduced
so many people not only to being able to
buy trade stocks but also
a lot of people started buying crypto on Robin Hood
this is an interesting part. Accordingly
sports bettors in the United States was
forecasted to rise from around
25 million people in 2022
and that doesn't seem like a
of people that are betting
especially something that's so taboo
at one point in time where like you could
I don't know like when I was
growing up like the idea of just gambling
on really anything was taboo let alone
sports which was even further
that represents an increase of almost
to 2025. That is fucking huge.
it's probably 100 million plus
just in the United States a lot of people.
That is a lot of people. And
also the ages are getting younger
and younger as well. So you want to know something funny about that?
an example. It's not a test case for everyone
and I have my real life from college
friends with some of my buddies from college
None of them bet on sports when we were
in college other than like basic stuff
all they talk about all day is
I wouldn't say good because they're probably not making that much.
But they've gotten so detailed in the gambling
so they're gambling on things that they don't even
watch. So I'll give you an example.
They barely bet on football
because they believe that the
online gambling provider is so
good at being the house. Like it's
so programmed in which is true
because I mean like their whole job
is to be like quants where they just
calculate odds. It's not someone
smoking a cigar anymore. It's basically AI
will bet on sports that they purposely
just to get better odds and
so that way they think they can get better odds.
my buddies watch football, none
of them watch hockey. They all bet on
fucking hockey because apparently
the odds are better there because there's less
betters in hockey. So they have now gamified
betting. So what I'm telling you
is that eventually this shit's going to end up
back in crypto because after
they fucking soak up the dopamine
and they game the system to such a
point where they just lose the dopamine
shot that they're getting in their
brain and they're just mush dopamine brains
they look for another thing and
I think they will come back to meme coins,
fucking NFTs and all this shit because
while you say that people
don't want gambling, I think for the
most part it's all people want
because as long as there's money on the table
in a world where it's almost impossible to
get ahead, that's all that's going to be
Okay, I don't disagree with that.
Here are sport betting key statistics.
So sport betting apps in the United States
probably so much more by the
71 increase over the previous year.
It's probably like $15, $20, $30 billion
sports betting apps generated
$2.3 billion in revenue in 2022
so in the same year the United States
more revenue off sports betting
a huge staple within American culture
football, all these things are
American culture. FanDuel
is the most popular sports betting app.
I guess this was as of 2022,
I wonder what it is now. Basketball generated
the most revenue for sports betting apps in
2022 and the UK football or
soccer was the most popular, followed by
horse racing. And then you even
have things like photo finish
which by the way are doing really
like people don't really talk that much about photo finish
at least I don't hear it that much but
that is probably one of the most successful
projects on Solana currently.
And shout out to D Stables
and Aaron from D God. They are
making a fuck ton of money
because they were in that shit so early.
here's the breakdown by the way for US
sports betting. This is 2022
so take it for what it is but basketball was
was 18% and everything else
basically encompassed the rest of the 22%.
It was probably somewhere in other and
maybe hockey. Yeah, exactly.
So they were real DJing better.
So this is actually really
interesting. New Jersey has the
highest lifetime revenue at
2.8 billion however New York is quickly
catching up. So it's New Jersey, New York
I think you were allowed to
bet in New Jersey for longer than in
I testified in front of the state senate
the midwest is going to out bet
They have nothing to do. This is exactly
The government there wanted
they already have lottery systems
and like lottery is very big
there. They love the lottery.
and these midwestern states are
sports bars and football.
and the midwest is going to be the
biggest sports betting area
of the entire country. The only thing
that would stop that is actually religion.
In fact, the one state that had
no interest at all, maybe that's
level, I think people don't realize
how big Texas is and how religious
serious at the government level with religion
of passing any betting stuff there
unless you're a very heavy donor.
Yeah, there's no separation of
church and state in Texas.
This is actually as of 2023
and here's some interesting numbers.
New Jersey is still number one
do you know what the handle is? Because it's showing me
handle and then revenue. What is
many bets the state handles.
Like how many bets are taken.
I can go look it up but this is where I'm not the most
experienced. I didn't work in casinos.
I was with esports betting in particular
I can ask Fluke. Fluke runs
the Confi Panda's guy who would know ice bags.
said is probably pretty accurate. It's probably just
bets as opposed to just revenue. Maybe that's their word for
liquidity, gamble liquidity.
But their handle, so 45... I'll look it up real quick.
billion and they made about
just off this one aspect.
Their tax rate is significantly higher
than the next highest state as well.
Handle is how much money is wagered during a given
time period. So basically liquidity.
Yeah, or volume or whatever.
It's interesting because New Jersey's tax rate is
significantly higher because
2.1 billion as opposed to
3.3 billion but their revenue,
what they generated off taxes rather was
to New Jersey's $468 million.
Can I tell you an interesting
thing about Nevada and the Super Bowl this year
the betting rabbit hole because gaming
the rules are as follows for players.
related to that team is not
allowed to step foot in any sport betting
related bar in Vegas. They are
But they can be on the regular
Players on the Super Bowl
teams not only are not allowed
to do that, but they are not allowed
to stay in a hotel within 25 miles
teams actually have to stay
each other on this lake. I forget the name of the lake.
It's really nice. It's like two resort hotels
that are across from each other.
It looks like the mountains.
They are literally not allowed to step foot
until the day of the game
a media day? Where are they practicing?
these sports betting companies
that they have security detail
all over these players watching them and shit
because the handle or liquidity
is so large for these events.
of scandal where there's insider betting
from one of these players would be a big deal.
We have literal restrictions within 25
This is really interesting.
we'll start with handles.
The total volume of all sports betting
in the United States was 309 million.
or a combination of the both.
309 million dollars traded
billion dollars in the span
in 5 years of the amount of money.
That's obviously due to the accessibility of it.
That's why when you tell me that people
don't want to talk about gambling or
don't want to gamble, I say
I think a lot of these projects that
maximize that but somehow are able to do it
in a legal way are going to print.
that we need to be honest with ourselves about
why some of these people buy NFTs
because it's certainly not for overpass IP.
Even though I do think there is a
and I love that culture way more than
a betting culture. I would love
to attend to their needs way more than a better
But we should be honest with
ourselves and quite frankly, if we're
going to just be straight up honest,
lends itself as an advantage
that everyone who talks about how gambling
and speculating is killing mass adoption,
I think it's the complete
opposite, complete opposite.
is actually that it's not interesting to gamble
on them anymore. It's way more interesting
to gamble on football. Give me
a reason to make NFT gambling fun again
and you'll get mass adoption.
I don't disagree with that.
really when you break it down,
Jonah, what are the things you can do
You can build, you can be like a founder
or you can work at a company
or you can work to create
of it, so maybe you just occasionally
buy NFTs, you like Twitter
or you like to see the content and people
engaging in conversation, or
you can be someone who buys and sells things
pretty often. Those are like the three in my
or like an artist or whatever, but I would put that
under building or creating.
So there's really not that much to do
and if you don't want to work in this
space as a builder, founder, artist, creator
whatever, you're not left with that many options
buying stuff. I even think in 2021
a lot of people look back and they're like
2021 was the golden age and
it was all community and vibes. I don't
it was. Let me tell you my thesis on this
because you bring up a really
good point and as someone who
now has to run an NFT company, I've been
all day, every day. So let me tell
And I've even thought about writing an article
called The Death of the Consumer
because I don't think this is just a Web3
problem. I just think Web3
makes it more evident what the
I don't think we live in a
world anymore where we have
mean by that is I think we live in a
world where everyone is an investor
and a consumer at the same time
because of how close someone can get
to the core developer of the product.
And I'll give you an example
in Web2. Pokemane is a perfect example.
Pokemane releases these fucking
the price of what they are at Costco
and everyone knows that, right? The fact
that you guys are laughing means you know this story.
So you're proving my point here.
You're a broke boy if you can't afford them.
dude, you are making my exact
point. So let me tell you what I'm thinking here.
YouTubers and Twitch streamers
and kick streamers are having the same
problem that fucking NFT brands are.
Is that they are so close
identify itself as a customer
and a creator's brand. And all
NFT does is exacerbate that
but also can solve those problems.
So I have this belief that any
brand that is started on the
Internet, not just crypto, is
investment brand. Because
the content you make and what you do
with your quote unquote utility reflects
the desire of people to invest
they don't necessarily think of themselves
as investors in a shareholder sense.
time investor. For example
I watched let's say five years with
a Pokemon. I wouldn't. I'm just making a scenario.
my interest in the content
as a time investor that I
will now buy these Oreos at
So my time investment is so
okay with accepting that cost.
But if my time investment is two months
and I find out she's selling a pack for
what the fuck is this utility? This is
shit utility. Fuck you Pokemon
you're a piece of shit. I'm gonna go watch
fucking speed now. Alright
I'm gonna go buy the speed soccer ball for $30
because I'm a time investor there. So
and the creator economy have the exact
people in this space thinking that they're
special and that they have these
problems specially because they're NFT people
because they didn't do any research
outside of this space. And I'm not saying that
I have all the answers but I can tell
you that like every problem that
NFT companies have had is the same
are having issues with right now.
No I mean I always said that all the time where it's
just like you know I've seen gamers
hate devs on games harder
than like some NFT people
hate founders or whatever and it's just like
they only spend $60 on the game.
People spend thousands here and like
sometimes they're getting a soft dream and compared to them.
So I mean like I definitely don't disagree.
I feel like I'm agreeing with more of your points
I think it's just like frustrating for me
and I could entirely be wrong
but it's just like hard to accept
because like when most people come into crypto
at least I'd like to assume this
is that it's usually from a
very optimistic standpoint like
I'm going to try to change my life or learn
about new technology like support this new industry
and then what it inevitably
boils down to is like just
fucking gambling and even when I
even when I buy shit coins I'm gambling
like it's just I'm putting money in the casino
Now I wanted to compare the revenue
with gambling to actually the foreign industry
so I looked up a couple of numbers
gambling this year was what
what number did I say it was
$8.6 billion in terms of total
revenue off that was $874
$25 billion rather I mean
the total volume was $306
billion and the porn industry
so like you would think that porn would be
a lot bigger than betting
at least I would have thought. Is that a clear
OnlyFans? I was going to say
is that OnlyFans revenue included
because OnlyFans took over the porn
industry? I think it's everything
yeah I think it's everything.
I'm saying here is not meant to be negative
so I don't know maybe I come from a very tough
the family people who I've just
let me explain the way I see the world
I'm not seeing everything I'm seeing
even though you may perceive it that way
just like when I say things on
Twitter in a tweet I don't necessarily
perceive them as negative I perceive them
and no one has true reality
because perception is all based
on a first person point of view so there is
no objective reality in this world
consumer investor behavior
consumer behaviors that quite frankly
don't change just because you have a new
technology does not mean people
have evolved and that's what I think
people don't understand like
let me ask you what was the first
thing you saw this week relating to AI?
Taylor Swift and Newton. Okay
drugs and alcohol and rock and roll
these are things, these are vices
when you don't have a need
that are important then you have consumer vices
necessarily see them as negatives
as long as they're done in moderation
and I don't think gambling has positive outcomes
all the time but I'll give you an example
small handles in a football
help the NFL gain more viewers
that are committed to the game because
there's something invested in the game
and maybe because of that
people get really interested
you can say that's positive or not
I'm just making an example maybe
be sexual harassers or predators
have their horrific mindset
an actual woman in real life who could
in cell culture for example, maybe
in cell culture could actually be appeased
because they can't be cured any other way
consumer vices that can be used
just like when I FUD Yuga
I'm not saying I want Yuga to
let me give you an example, if
I FUDGING BLAST Daniel Olegre
on Twitter, guess what I'm doing
he goes maybe I shouldn't
have compared Diablo 4 to Dookie Dash
and when he goes and he FUDGING talks to
GQ or he talks to IGN or he talks to
some big FUDGING outlet in Web 2 which has
way more distribution than I do
he remembers that time that he got blasted by me
or blasted by someone else
and at the end of the day it's a positive
outcome for the Yuga Labs gaming division
because I blast him that he
got some sort of constructive feedback
because I guarantee you he's surrounded by YesMen
specific take, I agree with him there
but that's neither here nor me
I'm just saying that you can
have a negative vice have a positive
outcome, that's all I'm saying
Here's some interesting numbers too
just while I'm looking at it
global porn industry is $100 billion
and is expected to increase to
The revenue from the US porn industry
is about $13 billion, in comparison
the NFL generated revenue of around
The fucking porn is making more than the NFL
I want to throw it to Jake here
appreciate the patience, what's up
you know I'm trying to get better about using
my hand in your spaces man
I kind of wanted to touch
add a little bit of something to Jonah's point
it can actually have good outcomes
and that's true but the crypto market's
a little bit different because the market's
and a couple of months ago we saw
the most astronomical gains
in Solana we've ever seen
we were seeing like 500x pumps
the most insane things ever and now I'm seeing
a shift in the market where it's almost like
it's really risky to be trading
at all right now just because everything's
going to rug, all these new tokens are
scams, I think that the scammers
are becoming so well about
creating all these scam tokens
tell what's legit and what's not
anymore, like I made a call on
Croc, I don't know if you guys saw that meme
token like a couple weeks ago
it was a cat with a croc on its head
and I was like there's no way that this thing
you don't know what I'm talking about
you haven't seen Croc token
I know exactly what you're talking about
there was this one I invested in called
the dev is the cat, I mean the dev is the cat
on this one I was like there's no way
this is going to do a 100x
there's no way it's not going to do that
dude, there's no, I seriously
I think that the dev had like 90%
of the supply or something and all these
devs are just getting extremely smart about their scam
I figured if the dev was a cat
he wouldn't know how to rug it and obviously
he's a pretty smart cat, that's for sure
part of me thinks this is a genius
gaslight, the other part of me is
I actually believe there are people
like what you just stated
positive outcome, maybe they didn't belong
having the money in the first place
now we're getting ridiculous
the other thing, the positive outcome
of people getting scammed is that
they didn't deserve to have the money in the first
place, look welcome to space everybody
appreciate y'all for popping that to
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I gotta get off this webpage
I don't know why I'm reading articles about the porn
industry revenue speculation by
I also just read an article about most popular
categories, but I don't think you guys
want me to dive into that
alright, we're diving into it
actually, I'm gonna look it up now
I didn't actually see an article on it
I've seen most popular porn categories
last night we're doing a beanie one on one
I'm like begging Vitalik for an interview
and in the space we're going to
Overwatch is somewhere in the top ten
what? that's so fucking specific
alright, so let me explain
so, it's known in the gaming business
that Activision has something
can I just, oh, you'd be so wrong though
ok, but let me just explain this
so this is a game business thing
in the gaming business that Activision
what young men will search
on Pornhub, and they create
they create certain characters in their games
which I know you're fucking agreeing with me
I know you guys know what I'm talking about
and Asmongold says this on YouTube
the art of the porn game character
it's like the Incredibles chick
Mrs. Incredibles from like
sorry, go on, but go on the top, yeah, let me know
you're not entirely wrong, but it's not
as specific as Overwatch, though, maybe I can find
like, dude, once they perfected
the hagao eyes, it was over
that was game over for everyone
alright, alright, alright, so
it's not like giving me specific
characters, like, that's not what
that's probably the worst time searching
this stuff, actually, it's probably
can I just read this for whatever
okay, so the number one search thing
in 2002, this was 2022, by the way
the meta has probably changed in the past two years
I'm being honest, it might be Overwatch
Valorant has become pretty popular too, so it might be that
anyway, the number one category
right there, and it's very close too
I don't even want to read the
I don't even want to read the rest of these
no, I'm not going to read
these, this is pretty vulgar
there's a reason I believe in the anime
as the leader for NFT PFPs
yeah, is there a Zuki hentai out yet?
oh, if there isn't, they're not
mass market, so I will say
I'd be very interested in it
I will say Zuki has made it in mass culture
related to that, yeah, 100%
watch porn have consumed hentai
listen, I'm telling you, the anime market
is booming, and I just think that people
on web 3 don't understand
and to try to explain it to these people
would take such a long time
that it's actually embarrassing
this is not some big brain
what episode are you guys on?
this is not some big brain shit
where it's like the depths of the anime
culture have rescinded the
they watch Naruto, and they get
comes on, and that's literally
it's not some deep psychological
no, no, no, hold on, I gotta
defend the anime people here
my god, man, you must watch more anime
yeah, Jonah's an expert at this, guys
okay, alright, maybe it's Tsunade
it's definitely Naruto's wife
definitely Tsunade would qualify
yeah, all the milk men are sentable, please
okay, can we not save milk?
yeah, we gotta reset the space, shout out to our
really appreciate you guys, shout out to Gaiman
talk about something crypto related
you guys wanna talk about the Quantum Cats, I can't talk about
fucking Hentai and Tsunade in this space
anymore, this is getting ridiculous
you guys wanna talk about the Quantum Cats thing
who's interested in that?
is Naruto's wife named Tsunade?
I know you wanted to change subjects
a second ago, but can we talk about
milk for a second, did you guys see that
Sydney Sweeney tweeted about milk?
oh my god, that was a hack
dude, that was such a hack
there's no way that wasn't a hack
no, no, so basically what happened is
and they opened up a Twitter space
on her account, and the guy who hacked
her account is speaking off her account
and he's like playing music in the background
and he's like, the milk will take
crazy thing I've ever recorded
basically, Sydney Sweeney's account was hacked
I think they actually hit
speeds account tonight, I don't know if it was fake or not
but I saw something that speeds account was hacked
and was shilling a token as well
and her account was hacked
and there was a token called milk that had been
released essentially the day before
and she tweeted out a link
shilling it, or not even a link
like a picture of the chart with some boobs
drawn on it, and there was something
about like, I have the best boobs in crypto
or some shit like that was the caption
oh, that was a real tweet or whatever, I saw that
dude, that was a real tweet, and it caused milk
pump like to 10 mil and then it fucking
yeah, cause the guy opened up a Twitter space
and was the most cr- like he said it was not
opened up a Twitter space and just let that shit run
he was gloating and whatever, like he's gonna get
caught, and somebody recorded
why is fucking Hentai on my monitor right now
Kuro, um, I'm going over to you, what's up
GPU Deepin in the space right now
Jim, cause uh, they put me on
shout out to their render now
appreciate them sponsoring the space
quantum cats, we gotta get to crypto
here, we gotta get to crypto
we've been talking about so much random gel
okay, but they're quantum cats
I got my cat, well I know what cat I got
architect, what do you call it
okay, or no, that's not where you were
so, anyway, the mint is like
I think it's .1 Bitcoin, which is
like around 4 grand right now
um, they did delay the mint a few times, just
due to issues with the minty platform
look, this is the slowest
sky casino I've ever visited, this is like
the holiday end of sky casinos
it's an old sky casino dude
vegas strip, okay, it's like old
you know, and they're trying to
renovate it, but it's the golden nugget
leap, I got naveen, dude I know everyone's
fucking trigger now, with naveen's
sky casino with karo, it's
clonex, with lucifer's cheesecake
factory, with bad brothers, it's fucking government
what it is with you, but I think anything
I'm just triggered 24-7 at this point, I'm
stressed out, I'm under a lot of pressure
I'm all over the place, um, okay
so, this is my take on the
I have no idea what the project is, but I
will gladly pay .1 bitcoin to
udi to give me a fucking cat
it's a cat that's based on a
so, okay, what I understand
on a serious level, is I think there was
something called op underscore cat
in the original bitcoin code
or something, and it had to do with
some sort of smart contract, like
something like that, and it was
removed to basically make, I don't know,
bitcoin more efficient or something, I don't know
the exact details, and this is essentially
a play on that, what I personally
believe, and I have no insider information
tell you guys if I knew something more
I believe that they're going to create their own L2
I don't even think this is like a
crazy take, I think that udi
and the team are creating an L2 for bitcoin
and I think that these, like
that's why I think these NFTs are going to be
I'm not telling people to mint, like it's a lot of fucking money
but I believe that there's
going to be a token airdrop of some sort on this L2
and I think that the NFTs that they're making
are going to be the key to that, and I think the drop
they're not making any NFTs sleep
they read digital artifacts
okay, they're digital artifacts
these digital artifacts, I believe, my thesis
is that they're going to be fucking basically the key
to this token airdrop on the L2 that they create
now, this could be 6 months from now
this could be a year from now, it could be a lot sooner
than that, but I find it hard to
would be able to raise 7.5
mil, pre any revenue, pre
any NFT drop, if there wasn't
so, considering that, I think
the token $4,000 is a steal
this is not financial advice, I'm not even on the
allow list, I didn't make the fucking video
of the cat thing, so I'm going to try to
mint on public, and if I can't mint on public
then I'm going to buy on secondary
when the price stabilizes
even if it's more than .1
of money for me, by the way, I don't think I've ever
spent that much money on a mint in my entire life
yeah, it's a lot, but I mean, I just
that's what I think is going to happen, I think
they're making an L2, I think there's going to be a token
and I think that shit's going to be fucking expensive
When this token comes out, how many
users are we going to get on Bitcoin?
I don't know, but like, Oody has such a
looking for an alternative, and stocks is already so
expensive, it's, you know, it's
I actually think Oody's awesome, so
what I'm about to say is not a fud of Oody
because I think Oody could do it
it's the Ethereum playbook all over again
it's like, that doesn't seem
very innovative to me, so
we're going to mint these NFT's
and guess what, those NFT's are going to be tokens
but guess what, that token needs a chain
and now that we have a token and a chain, now
we need apps, and we've made our
own wallet, and guess what the chain's
going to do, it's going to have more ordinals
and, you know, we're mass adopting
and eventually we're going to buy our bags
I don't know, we've just done this on
what we're going to do, are we running it back?
Is that what we're doing?
I mean, it depends on the details, and if it's a layer 2
you know, because that's what I'm saying
it's like, okay, what's going to be the compromise
or whatever, how's it going to be better
so I don't know, I can't really say more
on the defendant, but if they
make a layer 2 and it's good
and it kind of sticks with all the
principles of who it wants, then
he says exactly what I think, at least
eventually the blockchain technology
is going to get so good where, like
this narrative is not going to have any
fire power, because if everyone
has a great blockchain, then
someone's got to have a great app
and I just think that maybe Bitcoin could
leapfrog this narrative with ETH
that has been pushing it down and
try something different, maybe go
right to doing a great app, like why don't we just
start there, because we have users, right?
Bitcoin has holders, maybe
just start with building a great app, like
let's not do another chain, or have
everyone at least do another chain, maybe
I'm crazy, maybe I just don't belong
going to do a new chain, and it's
because of all the stupidity
and all the math, not math things
there's Monad that's coming out, there's
people getting very excited about, I mean
just, I don't know, it feels like
less than a year ago at this point, Aptos, Kanto
I mean, there is a lot of money
in making a new chain, regardless
if it's successful or not, especially
if you're on the founding team, like
you have 25 points of the supply
of the supply, whatever it is, you're making
tens of millions of dollars, and the founding
team is, like the founders are
holding 5, 6% of the supply, they're making
a fuck ton, they're making 8, 9 figures
like, there doesn't need to be
a killer app on the chain for the teams to make
so much money, and I'm not
saying, I'm not defending that, but that's
like, and by the way, I'm not
saying that's what Udi's doing, I genuinely think
and wants, and he's trying to do what he thinks
is the best for Bitcoin, that, I
genuinely, genuinely believe that, and
for them, they believe, and I also believe
this too, that digital artifacts
or NFTs, whatever you want to call them
I mean, like, it gets people doing so
Yeah, I'm not fitting on Udi, let me just make it fair
No, I didn't think you were, I didn't think you were
I think Bitcoin needed ordinals, and
it probably does need a better L2, but how
many does it really need? Because
like, what it might actually need is
maybe a great social media
app that uses ordinals, maybe it's
a really great consumer app
like, maybe it's a TV show, maybe
it's a, maybe it is a video game, maybe it's
Dude, the narrative for ordinals
ultra, ultra rich, I mean, people who own
planes, people who own boats, people who own
fucking islands, people who like
sat on Bitcoin for fucking
old Bitcoins look, like, loose
can you create something that
Bitcoiners want to collect
that is native to Bitcoin
on Bitcoin, you know, look
I mean, look, I don't think there's anything
on stacks, Lightning Network
the whole idea of getting Opcat
like, re-added, so there's so many
wins against it, right, like
there's a whole, like, you know, Bitcoin
maxi-culture of, like, you know,
changes to Bitcoin, it's like
originalist thinking or whatever, right, it's
Bitcoin at all that don't comply
and, by the way, there's an enormous number
of people who, like, fall into that camp
is essentially battling all those people
with the Opcat thing, and the problem is
is that Satoshi themselves
it was, it was, like, objectively
removed by Satoshi, like, that's the
history of the code base, and so
I think it's gonna be a really, like
I think it's gonna be really, really hard
the Bitcoin community to, like,
you know, re-add something
that Satoshi themselves removed
if that's needed, if Opcat
that's, like, really, really, really
you know, just full stop, I mean, it may happen
but it's gonna be a long time
it's gonna be, like, another, like, battle royale
just like any other, like, meaningful
change to Bitcoin is, and it takes forever
gonna happen anytime soon, like
maybe he is building an L2, and I love
you know, I'm fucking repping an ordinal
on this space, you know, because I fucking
love ordinals, and I love Bitcoin
and I'm a Bitcoiner myself
but at the same time, I'm just like
being really, you know, honest, like
I believe in ordinals, I think ordinals is great
can be huge, just on the very basis
Bitcoiners, you know, like
collecting really cool things
on Bitcoin, and more and more OG
Bitcoiners falling in love with ordinals
to make ordinals, like, a fucking huge thing
because you gotta remember, Bitcoin is so
much bigger than any other blockchain, I mean
that's why on any of these, like
tracking apps that anyone uses, you have this thing
called, like, you know, what is the
you know, what is it called, like, you know, the
or whatever the term is, it's the
Bitcoin, I'm just trying to remember what
they call it, like, oh, the dominance
the Bitcoin dominance, like, Bitcoin
dominance is, like, fucking 51%
and so, that's all you need
in a narrative, that's all you need in a narrative
pump for a long time to come, you don't
apps or, like, anything like that
I think it's just a much simpler
narrative than anyone is kind of making
the way that we talk about
like, I've heard this a lot, where
it's like, oh, people are
gambling and shitcoins are the purest
form of what this stuff is because it strips all the fat away
I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's what a lot
the equivalency kind of exists between
NFTs on ETH and Sol compared to Bitcoin
are, blah, blah, blah, as simple as possible
Now, Naveen, to your point
so Solana, and Solana's pretty
fucking big, is a $43 billion
popular Solana is, and how much we talk
about it, and all the activity
I think it's 100x more known
I think it's 100x more known
first of all, there's a lot of
things here, first of all
one of the very, very few coins
besides, you know, Monero, and
I can't even really think of another one right now
that is an immaculate conception
coin, okay, so in other words
you know, Satoshi literally
wrote the code, started sending
it out to friends, there was no
per se, like he was mining, he or she was
mining it, you know, at the beginning
because it was brand new at the time, like it was like
literally a brand new concept, but opened it up
right away so that other people could start
and there is no venture capital
firms, there's no, like there's none of that
shit, like there's none of that shit
with Bitcoin, like Bitcoin is immaculate conception
and by the way, so is Monero,
Monero is an immaculate conception coin as well
people think about gold, and how people
really matter to people, because
cultural narrative, like the fact
that Satoshi is anonymous
is a huge narrative, the fact that
Satoshi's coins have not moved
whatever, since the beginning
you know, these are all like
very, very, very powerful
narratives, the fact that the Bitcoin
like by design it's ossified
like it doesn't change very
often at all, and Bitcoin
core developers, you know, work really
really hard, any changes are like
incredibly minute and incremental at best
you know, like over the course of time
all features, these are all features
of Bitcoin, because it all
contributes to the narrative, and that narrative
contributes to how people
perceive its value, right, and
that's why you have people like Michael Saylor
and all these other like hardcore
Bitcoin people that just continuously buy
billions of dollars of Bitcoin, like that's
why you have that, and you don't have it
for Solana, like now let's contrast
it with Solana, and this is not me being
negative on Solana, I'm a fucking investor
in Solana, I'm just being really honest
has venture capital, like how
many coins, how much Solana does
multi coin own, nobody actually
really talks about that, but a fuck
led the series A for Solana,
so you have venture capital
in the coin, which is not a negative
per se, I'm just making a point that
like early, like people were able
to buy into Solana for like pennies
per token, like literally pennies per
token, and write it all the way up
okay, that's number one, number two
what percentage of the supply is
controlled by insiders, and the answer
a lot, like a ton, a huge
percentage of the supply is controlled by insiders
you have all these validators that
you know, own a fuck ton of Solana
and they're just raking it in, because basically
they're getting this like a mission
you know, for providing validation services
staking Solana or whatever, they're getting
this ongoing mission which continues for some
meaningful period of time, whatever that is
you know, whatever the APR
APY is now, it's like 6, 7, 8%
whatever it is, and by the way
all of that goes to only people who stake
so anyone who is not staking
is getting fucking diluted, is getting
diluted primarily by insiders, like
that is objectively the tokenomics
of Solana, like just being
fully fucking honest about it, right
and when you compare that to like
it's really hard, it's really
really hard, you know, also Solana
like the only three ways to acquire
any proof-of-stake token is
buy a bag, farm a fucking airdrop
an early investor, and that's it
full stop, there is no other way to buy
a proof-of-stake token, I don't give a fuck if we're talking about
Arbitrum, or Solana, or Optimism
or fucking any other, even Ethereum
now, like even Ethereum now
that's like, what do you do, you just
buy a bag, like that's all you can do
there's no other fucking way to get into it
you know, so these are all like
very different narratives that will play
out over the long haul, like mid
that we can't even really predict
to people's long term perception of
value, you know, like there's still people
who don't like Ethereum, because of the fucking
original Dao hack, and the
fucking, the fact that, you know, Ethereum
classic exists, and Vitalik
fucking, you know, like, manufactured
this whole, like, you know,
you know, kind of like reversal
of truth, you know, like, is
Ethereum actually immutable?
Well, you know, there's a fact pattern out
there that says that it isn't,
right, I mean, that's just what it is
like, these are all things that are like
stories over the course of time
if you believe in the store of
value thesis, now I'm not taking away
from the smart contracting
capabilities and the incredible
powerful applications you can build on a
you know, like, that's all
a contrasting narrative, that's like, you know, a
positive, that's a huge positive for something
like Solana, so these are all like, really
complicated stories that throughout
time contribute to people's
like, belief systems and conviction
in these like, different protocols
and tokens, does that kind of make sense?
Bitcoin, I mean, to me, is just like, really,
really compelling, now I still like Solana,
and I hold a lot of other shit too, but Bitcoin is
I don't want to use this comparison,
but it's like, as close to God
that that exists in crypto, that's what
Bitcoin is. Dude, that's, these
things literally do take on
like, it literally, there is a
Bitcoin fucking religion, there is
a Monero religion, right?
These are religions, these are
religions, and, you know, there is
an emergent Solana religion, there is,
like, I'm not gonna sit here and say that there isn't,
there absolutely is an emergent
Solana religion, there's obviously
an Ethereum religion, I mean, any fucking
tweet from DC Investor is like,
he's like the fucking Messiah,
you know, like, acolyte of, you know,
God Vitalik, you know, on
Ethereum, like, he doesn't, he can't post
anything negative about Ethereum, it's like
God and his fucking bones. Not even about
Decentraland, it's crazy.
I know, it's crazy, exactly, like
there's, they can do nothing wrong, it's like, oh,
he is God, it's like, yeah,
it's a bullshit solution, he'll never fucking work,
oh no, he's God, you know,
that's literally like DC Investor on the fucking
timeline, right? And it's fine,
it's fine, like, I'm not trying to rag
saying that they are a believer, they are
like a firm believer in the religion,
just like someone is a fucking Catholic,
right, like, and that's cool, that's fine,
there's no judgment there, it's
just the facts, so these are
belief systems that people have
in these, you know, protocols,
there's like this, people get really
confused in the head, I mean, I pay attention to my own psychology,
it's like, okay, well there's like a bag
bias for sure, like, oh my God, I got a
lot of money tied up in this thing,
okay, then there's like the cultural thing,
it's like, okay, I've got
an NFT, okay, if I'm a Solana person,
I've got a fucking mad lad, or whatever it is,
that represents my identity, you know,
mega credit to Tolley and Raj,
above it all, in a way, and
by the way, fully intentional,
really really really smart, because
it means that they are like,
they're just above the fray, they say
positive things about Ethereum, they say positive
things about any protocol, they won't
rag on anything on the timeline,
and that also contributes
to how much love people have for Solana,
these are all like attributes,
right, that are part of the
so anyway, I mean, it's a
fascinating topic, like, you know,
blockchain culture as religion, but
Well look, I'm gonna, I gotta step
away for two seconds, I do have a lot of takes,
but I'll throw it back to Chef, and you guys don't have to use hands,
just like fucking play amongst
yourselves for like five minutes.
Oh dude, I forgot my hands.
Well I knew what I was gonna
say, I like Jonah and Naveen's
type, but I do still kind of agree with Jonah
a little bit, where it's like,
even though that is the case Naveen, and you're pretty much
parts of it that kind of don't
seem interactive enough, and
if they kind of just brush up on it, it would just
get everyone more involved a little bit more.
You're talking about Bitcoin? Yeah, with like
the whole world. Okay, but dude, I'm with you,
I'm not defen- dude, the Bitcoin
block time is a fucking eternity,
like it was, you know, periodically,
an hour between blocks, like that
happens, like that actual, the Bitcoin block
time is an average, it's an average,
it's not like, it's not like a
concrete thing, it's an average, so
I'm not sitting here defending
like, you know, Bitcoin's throughput
or, you know, like Bitcoin's
transaction speed, I'm not, I'm not
defending that at all, I'm just
making the point that Bitcoin is largely
changes are going to occur to
time, because it's part of the design, it's
part of the design, it's like, that's
part of what contributes to the value
is to change over time, but, you know,
very slowly, deliberately, and by
mechanism that's very, you know, distributed,
you know what I mean, so, it is meant to change
but it's just like, I think
you're right on the religion aspect where
I think a lot of people have now just become
okay, Satoshi's word is gospel
and like, it's never intended
to sink beyond that, where, you know,
I get where they're coming from, that, you know,
it is this precious thing and it does serve
an important role, but I think, you know,
part of Rudy's whole point and all that has just
Bitcoin has had this, you know, grandpa chain
kind of narrative, because you're right, you know, those
from a security standpoint
don't translate to the speed
compared to these other chains
improve that if it is later Tuesday
or whatever, as long as it kind of sticks with the main
Bitcoin ethos, like, I'm always four
but I do understand the concern that I need to
stay what it is currently in a lot of
just totally shut down and say, can't improve
ordinals or anything like that
and that it just needs to serve, you know,
the money transfer, I think, is, you know,
close-minded and I don't think that with
like, the original intention behind it based on what I've
No, no, so look, I want to be really
Oh, and that's just like general talking, I'm not
going to go back in here.
Like, anyone who's anti-ordinal
in my opinion is a full stop moron
Bitcoin is permissionless
like, part of the power of Bitcoin
is the fact that it's permissionless
so strongly in people's ability
the protocol, like the fact that
you know, we have ordinals, the fact that
we've come up with this new way
and enable like, collecting of digital
artifacts on Bitcoin, and acknowledging
by the way, that Bitcoins are
non-fungible, like that's part of
the acknowledgement of it, like
you know, like, that is like
to Bitcoin, just to acknowledge that you know what
every single Bitcoin, every single
Satoshi comes with provenance, okay?
And that's just the nature, that's also
part of the design, that is
also part of the design of Bitcoin, so
being super innovative, and like
trying new things with Bitcoin, and I'm not sitting here
saying that Bitcoin won't change at all
over the course of time, I'm only
simply saying that change is really fucking hard
it's really, really, really hard
with Bitcoin, because you have
these, you know, people in the community
that believe in Satoshi's vision, like
the op-cat thing, the fact
will always say, well, why?
know something about op-cat?
Like, is it an attack vector for Bitcoin?
You know what I mean? Like, people will like,
it takes on a religious deal, like
you know, it's fucking like Jesus, like
Jesus themselves have descended
from the heavens and said, don't
And that's kind of, and that contributes
back to the Bitcoin companies, like, right?
You know what I mean? Like, that's just the narrative, and I'm not saying
it'll never happen, I'm not saying it's impossible,
I'm just saying that it's really, really
hard, because you do have
these, like, it's a fractured community
and, you know, and by the
way, you have, you know, different
constituents, like, what the miners
care about, what the miners believe
is very different from other
constituents, you know, that are
connected to Bitcoin, you know? And that's
you know, you're right, it is hard, and it should be
hard by design, you know? I mean, these
things need to be vetted, again, like
but then you have that one camp that's just like,
no, it can't change anything, so yeah,
I mean, that's that Lazeride Maxi
thing, and I don't know if Udi and Opcat
will be successful in this regard, and
you know, fighting against that, but you know, I do think that other
side hasn't seen themselves in the
foot, and I think there's like a large type of middle
ground of people who have just been like
but are just like, okay, they're kind of open
to it and see what's going on,
especially the cat eaters, just like,
The problem with it is that
it's kind of like selective
the problem with the Lazeride Maxi
thing, it's like, okay, well if you
acknowledge that the system is
permissionless, like if you acknowledge
that Bitcoin is permissionless,
then why the fuck do you care?
Like, why are you mad at, like, ordinals
at all? Like, you know, who
cares? And by the way, you know,
also, if you acknowledge that
there's like a block reward
in the future, past several more
happenings, you know, that
around the security model for
Bitcoin, why wouldn't you be
supportive of, like, people
wanting to trade, like, digital
and contribute to transaction
fees? Like, why wouldn't you fucking want that, right?
inconvenient truths for a Lazeride
Maxi. So the problem I have with the Lazeride
Maxi community is the fact
that it's sort of like not
accepting the totality of
Bitcoin. Like, the totality of
permissionless system. Okay, that
is objectively true. The totality
of Bitcoin is that eventually
the block rewards do trend to
zero. 21 million Bitcoins, you know,
that's also true. So these
a part of Bitcoin and are
objectively true. And then you get
these, you know, Lazeride Maxis who come on
and are like, well, you know, I disagree
and I'm like, well, how can you disagree?
What are you saying? Are you saying that you disagree
that these are part of the design of Bitcoin?
Did you read the fucking paper?
Like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
That's where I struggle with it.
Yeah, same. Like, that's why
I try not to even get into this.
All right, I'm back. All I know is
want to read this one thing
here and this kind of reference what you were talking about
Just to give, I mean, it's a little bit off-topic
but slightly on-topic. Just some context
or OP-CAT is an OP code, which stands
for Operation Code. That was part
of the original Bitcoin scripting system. It was
elements from a stack and then put them back
into the stack. This allowed for creating
complex covenants, which are rules or conditions
for how Bitcoins can be spent.
OP-CAT was disabled by Satoshi Nakamoto
security concerns such as the possibility
of creating DOS, Denial of Service
attacks by using OP-CAT and OP-DUP
together to create extremely
large stack elements. Some developers
have proposed to re-enable it with a soft
fork, which is a backward compatible
change to the Bitcoin protocol.
Re-enabling OP-CAT could enable more
functionability, scalability, and security
for Bitcoin transactions, but it could also
introduce new risks and complexities.
Some of the potential benefits of re-enabling
OP-CAT are, and by the way, I guess
this is what Udi is trying to do.
So it can enable and emulate covenants
changing the dynamic of scripting and providing
more utility to the Bitcoin network.
Similar to the soft fork in 2021
with ordinals, it can create a whole
new layer of functionality.
Were there ordinals in 2021?
It can enable and enhance
a further level of security such as vaults
or even return functions which will
return all assets to a safe address
if a malicious actor obtains your
receipt keys before the actor is able
to send the assets out of your possession.
Higher level of protection for users against theft.
a allow list of wallets and
other dynamic restriction output scripts
and new forms of wills or
trusts for sending Bitcoin to inheritors.
It could create layer 2s and
bridging mechanics to other chains.
Some of the potential drawbacks of re-enabling
OP-CAT are, OP-CAT is incredibly
powerful and can allow for dynamic
scripting but potentially unexpected
consequences from malicious actors.
It is not fully clear just how
big of an impact OP-CAT can have on
Bitcoin network even with the
520 byte safeguard in place.
consensus rule that restricts the maximum
size of data pushed in a Bitcoin script
that any data element pushed onto
the stack such as a public key, a signature
or a redeemed script cannot
exceed 520 bytes in length.
And if it does, the transaction will be
invalid and projected by the network.
The 520 byte limit has some
implications for the Bitcoin scripting system
especially for the pay to script
hash feature which is P2SH
which allows users to create
complex scripts and hide them behind a hash.
the entire script is pushed
onto the stack and must respect the five
OK this is way too technical for me.
Satoshi removed OP-CAT deliberately from
the original Bitcoin script. There is
an argument to keep Bitcoin network unmodified
in Satoshi's vision. The other argument
is to move extremely cautiously
to ensure stability of the network
and complexity. Adding more OP-CAT
can introduce more bugs, vulnerabilities
I don't like that idea that it would be
against Satoshi's vision because
it was enabled then he removed it
because he saw security risk with it.
Now if you, and I think this is what
I remember hearing a space on them
kind of talking about the Wizards like
if you want to put this in like a Bitcoin
that those security concerns and like
if we can get comfortable around that
and then say we can deploy it
like I don't think that is then therefore
against Satoshi's vision. I just think like
what security concerns and you know there may be more
I could be I'm talking to my ass right now
but what I'm saying is like if that was his attitude
of like OK we got to move because I'm
looking at these security concerns
I think years later you're
vetting them and saying we can add more
functionality I just don't think that
should be classified as against
but now I want you to put on your
and I do ayahuasca in the
take that I want you to imagine
change that happened at the very hand
See I guess that's the one drawback
of Anna because it's like there's no cult
of Vitalik if it's like we can see Vitalik
in going away now it's just a mystical
There's some lore to like being in 2013
on your way to a music festival
and then your friend goes like can you believe there's
like bro that's some lore
bro like shout out Bitcoin
100% right at that computer
you can't pay any influencer
for someone to be like yeah dude
like I remember the only way to have Bitcoin
was like on a USB and like no one even
knew what they could do with
anybody could hear me every time I talked to someone else
was talking to him but I'd say who are we to say that Satoshi
isn't literally sitting at the keyboard right now
and he's like it's not safe enough I will
frickin decide UMFers like who
do you guys and the potatoes think that you are?
Yeah he's like you know came back
and is in the end on listening function
like Satoshi's in this space with us
right now he's listening to us always
so you know be on your best behavior
is a little voice in all of our fucking
are all Satoshi right it's like fucking
you know like V for Vendetta
you know we're all gonna like walk around with fucking
and say that we're all Satoshi
by the way that stuff is cool
like looking at like Josie Bellini
art by the way I fucking love
and you know love her art
like that's part of what has made
Bitcoin into a powerful religion
part of the script is like a website
that I forgot how to access
I mean like I agree with the maxis
it's like you know then they go oh okay
and so does any good Christian
with any other you know good Christian
you know what I mean right like that's the thing
through old old reddit posts
I mean people have been discussing bringing back
have you ever been on Bitcoin talk
yeah I've been on I mean that is a
fucking I had is way over my head
though the way these people are talking on there
and look at like Bitcoin talk
dude the amount of conversation that exists there
is historic it is historic
conversation that exists on Bitcoin talk
actually let me see if I can find some
like the oldest reference to op cat
and see if I can read it on Bitcoin talk
see even just like on a lot of these Reddit
posts it's kind of split 50 50
some people want it some people
don't obviously that's not that
conclusive like that doesn't tell us anything
but I mean I don't know maybe change is good
so I mean the whole thing
with Bitcoin you know is just kind
of like there are rules for how
you know compared to like
we were saying like originals and stuff like
what do you call compared to like you know
human fiat of like you know
lawyers and judges and you know that
whole thing this is code on the
internet this is just math so
you know we could change it it's just
you know there is a very high requirement
and it is a very special thing so
you know I get that argument but to
just stick with oh this can never
change I don't think that was ever
in the idea of it and it has changed I mean
you know we had the taproot upgrade
you know that's part of the reason why we
have all this with the ordinal stuff
and you know that kind of was there to serve lightning
or whatever so you know if they don't like
it I guess they can go to pickle and cash
I mean look obviously Satoshi is the goat
I don't like this like oh it was this way
originally so it has to stay this way
imagine if that's how we thought about
something else they're like oh the original
Mario this is the way it played
so we can never update it like that
you just apply that same thinking
to literally anything in our lives
and it would never hold up but for some reason
that's the way they think
well the alternative is just as bad
to just change something to change something
bro Christianity works like
different versions of Christianity there
another thing that's taken a very
originalist stance is the U.S. Supreme Court
right like the U.S. Supreme Court
you know primarily filled with judges
originalists and they come from this
belief system that like the U.S.
and the words of the founders
of the United States are like
you know well no hold on because
the originalist interpretation
this is what I was saying where it's just like
the idea is there is an interpretation
there is something that was agreed to
and then if you want to change it
there's an amendment process but what has changed
precedents and things like that not through
the proper channels of how it's supposed to change
that's what it is and that's what I'm saying is the important thing
No I'm with you I mean of course
100% like the U.S. obviously has
to like amend the constitution
obviously that's true but the point I'm trying to make is
amendment passed to the U.S. Constitution
like holy fuck that's like
But that's the same point with Bitcoin it's so hard to change it
and it should be and that was the design by it
these things are supposed to be
hard because they're so impactful
I wanted to add to that I know Leap's point a second ago about
I think it was Leap who said
by the way great space thanks for having me up
Leap's point a second ago about
how Bitcoin doesn't change
and what if everything else was like that
I don't know who's just saying that
the point I think is very valid is that
like that's one of the things I love about Bitcoin
is that I know it doesn't change
very difficult to change and to me
that de-risks it in a sense whereas
with ETH I think I hold ETH too
and I think ETH is awesome but
I think it's awesome because they experiment and because
they change and because they went from proof of work
to proof of stake but like as someone
holds Bitcoin that's one of the things I like about
Bitcoin is like I am pretty certain we're
never going to see proof of stake on Bitcoin
and I think for a lot of people that de-risks
as ever having the emission change
basically everything change over the past
and to me that's very attractive about
Bitcoin and that's why I like
other coins too is because they experiment
I think that's fair. I can definitely align
with that type of thinking
as much about just never changing though
but it's more so what Batbrothers said
it is intentionally difficult
to change for the sake of
not like security but just stability
I do want to ask Leo though
Leo I appreciate you hopping up
I've been seeing you tweet
a storm about this RSIC thing
and the runes and everything
can you give me a little breakdown of what's going on
why don't you like the RSIC
stuff and how they're claiming to be the first runes
I swear to god, Leap is so good at getting the
juicy stuff out of the speakers
decently concerted effort to try
to not feed into too much
of the tensions between projects
kind of freaking out, uploading it on ORD.io
so I tweeted a bunch about it
then did a little more research
and just a few things didn't
sit super right with me and I just
called those out you know it's not me trying
to fight I received a lot of these
me saying I don't like these things
these aspects of this so I tweeted
basically haven't tweeted about it
what I think is going to be a really
for the Ordinal community called Runestone
I don't want things to be
too PVP I don't think it's super healthy
but yeah I did call some things out that
so I can respect that take
hit one against the other but what were the things
totally kosher if you would
I did not like that in their white paper
you know this will be the first
rune rune ever like this will be the first
kind of misleading marketing I think they've
retracted that statement since I tweeted
like what are you guys doing but
with this on chain inscription is really cool
you read all of these interesting game
mechanics there's so many cool aspects of it that I do
like and that's why I tweeted
about it for a few hours and then all of a sudden
like what is this line about
runes are going to have rune numbers just like
inscriptions have inscription numbers
inscription zero is just objectively the first
inscription rune zero will be the first
going to be RSIC and pretty much
everyone knows that so it's just
a little weird red flag in there
not feel right did not sit right with me at all
just not the kind of thing
I personally like participating in
when there's just kind of this obvious
so that was probably honestly like the main thing
the other thing was I have
I think of like NFTs a little bit
differently than these fungible token meme coin
this is just my personal belief
people can think whatever they want
when I look at a meme coin
speculative currency that really doesn't
have a roadmap it doesn't have
utility there's not a company or
a startup that's building software that it's
bucket of just a meme coin or something
it's just going to be this kind of thing that people
and there's no real value
other than the community and the currency
behind it creating that network effect
if that's the value I'm not
not to get into other stuff but Pepe
the Pepe token on Ethereum
the largest criticism that project has
is that it's a meme coin you don't really
have to do any work you can deploy meme coin
for a few hundred dollars and the
founders had a pretty large allocation there
it's my understanding and in this
case with RSIC they gave themselves
a 10% allocation and then
the game mechanics that will end up being
simple framework there like if you fit in that meme coin
bucket you launch without
there weren't people backing up
and basically finding these ways
the whole game for meme coins
for the last two or three years was
you wanted to be the person
creating the meme coin and taking that 10% or 20%
that out there because that's how you make a lot of money
and when you're not really doing any
work you're just going to be marketing this thing
I don't think you really deserve
that 10% or 20% and I don't
rewards that and I think in general the market
won't reward that and with VRC20
Domo basically came up with this fair
mechanism that allows anybody to just
and then get their VRC20 token
to me there is no founder
some large allocation there so
it was kind of a bummer to me to see that
runes is going to be kind of launching right off the bat
with these sort of meme coins where
because it's a little bit more abstract of a protocol
people will be able to have
these kind of free mines and
you know, I'm not, that's not something
I want to support like meme coins
should be meme coins and everyone should have
a decently fair distribution
and allocation so really those
but wouldn't your at that
point be like isn't your problem with
the runes protocol versus VRC20
then I mean because with VRC20
like you said it's physically impossible
to you know do that so I mean when you just say
that at the end of the day VRC20
I don't know runes are the benefits
opinionated right Casey is going to make this
protocol, it's this very specific
you couldn't do something like
tether on it, you couldn't do something like
a Dow Governance token on it
because you need to be able to adjust
the supply, you need to be able to
in many cases like you know
the bucket of airdrops that I think are much
more legit are like real companies that have real
products of real users and they're going to have
this utility token you know obviously
the team needs to get some percentage of that
is really bad at doing something like that
so when I look at coin market cap
the top hundred coins you know
of them are these kind of meme coins, speculative coins
friendly and if we want to have
fungible tokens on Bitcoin we need a more abstract
protocol and that's you know
I think what runes is going to be aiming
to do and I think that's a net
but unfortunately it comes with the downsides
of the meme coin people will use
those to basically allocate them
and enrich themselves basically off
meme coins which just to me
it's a very clear line like if you're launching a meme coin
deserve like five million dollars
for launching a smart contract or something
to the point where it's just like
going to launch a meme coin I'm not a big fan of them
even though I'll trade them and try to
make money off them like you know just
I'm not someone who's going to shill them and all that
I had a point I was going to make and I totally
forgot it, let's go to leap
Leo, what is the point of runes?
another one of these fungible token
standards leap right like
currency that's pretty much
most of the activity that was on
Bitcoin for a very long time
and then all these metaprotocol people have come
along and said we want to do NFTs
we want to do fungible tokens and
this is the fungible token standard
and battle it out and probably
there will be one of them that's very popular
in a few years but during this price
discovery phase I mean there are literally
a hundred fungible token standards on
Bitcoin because nobody knows what's going to be
and runes just happens to be
created by the creator of ordinals
Casey Rotemore and is incorporated
and has a lot of people very
So it's very similar to ERC20
it's just instead of using the account based model
I don't know if this is a trolling question or not
blockchain crypto economic networks
are great at storing value
and there's two main primitives
you need a fungible token and a fungible token
and you need some sort of
system for releasing those
in some sort of interoperable way
you need ERC721 on Ethereum
counterparts for those two
primitives as well, so runes
will be one of the most popular
if not the most popular fungible token
up here used the runes yet?
a Bitcoin node to get on there
and play with them but I haven't heard anybody
any alpha that you found or what?
people who've taken Casey's code
and Casey's idea for runes and implemented
it themselves which I think is actually really cool
and they've kind of called it different things
and that is on mainnet today so you can
use a modified version of runes that's
not final on mainnet today
and then Casey has a testnet
official Casey runes protocol
in two and a half months at the halving
and I have not played around
there's still a lot of decisions
that kind of need to be made there
just regarding mechanics and
several of these things that are kind of open-ended
but I'm hoping over the next
will get much more narrow down
and you'll be able to use for the last month
similar if not identical to what we'll launch on mainnet
And you wanted to jump in earlier
cut you off on accident go ahead.
on Bitcoin right I mean like you know
I understand your point Leo
the intention is you're trying
to create something that has more
there's no such thing as a
everything on Bitcoin is non-fungible
right I mean I'm just making that point
everything comes with provenance
like this is not using the SAT
kind of ordinal theory tracking of SATs
like they're technically fungible
and then Casey made them non-fungible
and then runes is not using those to like
it's using this UTXO sort of model
I would consider them to be just
like pure fungible tokens there will not
but they're straight up non-fungible
because you still just like anything
wallet to wallet you're not obfuscating
you know wallet to wallet transactions
so I just want to be really direct like
went through your wallet then my wallet
then someone else's wallet versus another
rune that goes through five
other people's wallets that is
wouldn't you agree? So you're saying
have a different provenance than account based
essentially and you're pointing out that
that gives this interesting
sort of like history to some of these assets
that adds a non-fungibility
I'm saying that any blockchain
actually without de facto
I get the point you're making and I 100% agree with it
yeah you're totally right
anything on Ethereum or honestly
most chains right? Yeah exactly
this is not a knock in any way shape or form
I'm just making the point that
it's kind of like a really interesting
word in our industry because
people would look at like an ERC20
thing and I'm sitting here going
no all these things are non-fungible
because they all have different provenance
I'm not saying like Monero
I'm just saying anything where
you can look at the provenance
of any given asset on the thing
means that the underlying thing
is straight up non-fungible
fungibility and maybe my definition
like is $1 as should have
as another dollar obviously
the ability to track where it came
from reduces fungibility but
it doesn't gate it entirely
well no so here's the problem
let's be honest there are bad Bitcoins
if you deposit a bad Bitcoin on
Coinbase so the problem with
and provenance you actually can't
provenance for a token because
you will always have scenarios
where that token may actually not
be exchangeable for another
provenance like if the provenance is something that is deemed
society in one way or another
like oh my god someone used it to buy
drugs or oh my god someone
used it on the dark web in some various way
always end up in this scenario and that's why
I make this like pretty hard and fast
no such thing as fungibility
on protocols where you can
yeah I think I agree with everything you said
I just like an interesting anecdote
was I sold some gold recently
uh the guy who bought it for me
said they have to wait I think a week or two weeks
before they they melt it down
and he was like but we basically said
they melt it down as fast as possible because
stolen or had any issues associated with it
they will have to return it to the police
and I guess in that sense like
is involved in some sketchy transaction
can be traced has problems
that outside of basically Monero
when the transactions are correctly
obfuscated I'm not even sure if that's a true
statement I know Monero is a true statement
then I completely agree with your claims
go ahead Naveen and then we'll jump over to Z
oh I was just gonna say I was just gonna say that
optional privacy things don't count
bro like they just don't count
nobody fucking uses Z addresses in Zcash
and now those assholes are basically
like you know so they don't get delisted
at Binance right it's like it's such a fucking scam
I'm trying to walk back my Zcash comment
because I think I saw something like
less than one percent are opted in
for privacy or something insane like that
which effectively makes the protocol
it's a Bitcoin fork with an optional privacy feature
that is Zcash like straight up definition
can somebody tag Craig Wright
in the bottom right hand corner
he's the only one that can save us right now
I want to throw it over to Zit
I'm ready for your take what do you think?
completely unrelated as to why
I raised my hand I think I read that
Zcash is trying to turn into Ethereum
later too I could be wrong but
I read that on the forum somewhere
I know nothing about runes but
are the transactions cheaper and faster
and are they protected by the Bitcoin
hot potato trading checkpoints
of runes was kind of like
decided he was going to put it out because the BRC20
standard is very inefficient
for the blockchain and whatever and that's been a
main complaint from some of the laser
eyes which is kind of valid so
he was like alright I mean this is
really just kind of like a better way to trade
shitcoins but if you guys are going to do it
let me make sure it's done right and
that's kind of like the whole thing with runes
now I mean I think people have
said there could be other uses like
a tether or something like that on
yeah I mean that was kind of just the impetus behind
making the protocol in the first place
just so we're clear that's what we're doing with runes
and the take before I go is
that for the last hour and a half
I feel like you guys have been
marketing Bitcoin while trying to sell
not the exact same thing and I think you should work
themselves because they're not the same
no no no I know it's a word
on an ordinals team and you're marketing and
trying to sell it it's just
linguistics like you guys are chilling
Bitcoin on the topic of ordinals
what do you like Bitcoin?
actually it's an interesting point
you know just zoom out for a second imagine some people
who just like don't know about crypto they come in here
and we're talking about the laser eyes as if it's like a different
like the laser eyes are unhappy about
I feel like you've been outspoken about ordinals
in the past do you like ordinals?
what do you think about them?
yeah so I changed my mind on ordinals
at first I thought it was
at first I thought it was like
just spam and unnecessary
but eventually I came around like
as compared to any other NFT
like even if your ordinal goes to zero
which is something unique with NFT assets
which I really read into and
I sold myself on this point is that
well like once mining is done there's some issues
what I sold myself on is like ordinals
new transactions to occur on
thanks to ordinals and BRC20s
and all this micro economy
that's about to be born on Bitcoin
for the network when there's no mining
mining ended Bitcoin would be worthless
because everybody wants to hoard their Bitcoin
there's not going to be any transactions etc
there's not going to be any security
but now with ordinals and all this economy
there's going to be a hell of a
a hell of a lot more micro transactions
and this is really good for miners
and for the security of the network
so at the same time that I
that I sold myself on my ladies
and Remilios culture I sold
myself on the culture of ordinals
because it's very similar in the way that
fuck you we're having fun online
you can't tell us what not
I also changed my mind on both of them
at the same time because I was negative
on both at the same exact time
because they're just having fun and there's nothing
okay I actually think that's a pretty
I want to throw it over to Burden
I mean you are like the ordinals
aficionado you've been there day
one I mean what do you what do you think
I don't appreciate you flooding my bags with the title
I want to say hi to Naveen and I fuck
had to say that you know what I mean not enough people show
love to the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
are we talking about quantum cats
is that why you guys are saying ordinals suck cause we can talk
about it I'm team dead and I'm ready to throw
down so what are we talking about
do you know what your cat looks like yet
I don't like how it looks like
I'm down to talk about them because
the mints I'm trying to see
how people think about the mint
like how that affects quantum cats
awful like I would have liked for this one to go better
seeing like a week or two you know I mean at the end
of the day I don't think the mint is that big of a deal
what do you think of the mint price
well yeah that is the one thing
fucking expensive so better fucking
it's pretty fucking expensive
thing that's been on my mind this whole space
and the up cut narrative is
kind of burying the lead on
cat collection and what the whole
there's a huge thread by one
of the team members explaining what they did
and to me the way I like I explained
it to myself was they basically
future transactions so it's
in a way it's like creating a movie
but writing everything before
out the movie the script and
all the scenes and all the directing and all the
actors and all the clothes and the music
and then just letting the movie film
itself like you can't change it
so that's kind of what they did like ahead
transactions which is really cool
I can't explain it fully because I'm not
that smart but you guys should look into
the thread and one of the team
code intensive work behind
the cat collection people are not
speaking about because well
as you just saw it's really hard to
dude I just think like this is the one
all be early too you know what
I mean like I truly just believe
you said there weren't enough cats to leave
that there were no cats anymore
crypto kitties were like the last major cat
crypto kitties were popular
and then cats have been out of style
yeah I just read the fucking medium article
you know what concatenate is? No you don't
I know what concatenate is
but then the stacks together and you can get more data
right that's what it is I think
put one thing on top and another thing
and put that on everything else
you guys know the actual reason
why it's a cat themed collection
does Satoshi have like a pet cat or something?
Luke Dash Jr. the Bitcoin Core developer
yeah he's the guy who's trying to censor ordinals
like Udi's been at war with him for like 5 years
you know Luke has literally got
a BIP into the Bitcoin Core
didn't pass thankfully but
the most concerted effort to censor ordinals was
his campaign against ordinals
ordinals transactions right like the combo of those things
I think it's pretty obvious that
you know Udi trolls him all the time
just to be clear is like a bit out there right
apparently he eats cats like and this is like
not a joke either which is
I guess why it's funny but also
you can go like look up Luke-junior
like do an advanced search on Twitter
of like Luke-junior tweets
and then just like the word cat
and you can just go look through this stuff
I've gotten to like analyze this guy a little bit
he's very principled and he's actually dead serious
decided to make a cat themed collection
well hold on okay okay hold on but that
when like that sushi coin
we all thought like the founder fucked a horse
or something you know what I mean like
you remember that that was a thing
he also I don't think he thinks the world is around
you're you're saying that his beliefs
are a little out there is like relatively tame
I've never heard the cat thing but I've been following
Luke for about eight years and
he's one of the most insane people
I'm I'm really bullish on
Luke Dash Jr. all I know is
you know this guy is an innovator
a thinker and by the way is
eating cats just a euphemism
he is I think he's credited with
like saving bitcoin several
times in his early days like a lot of core
developers had said he's like beyond
instrumental but he has like
attacked other coins with his own mining rigs
and like completely destroyed other cryptocurrencies
when he finds a vulnerability like he's
out there is like I said a euphemism for sure
is it's sort of like look
you know again this gets back to the permissionless
nature of bitcoin right like if
and therefore limits the fees
choose to use that pool like
people will be objectively poor
and like using other pools
that's kind of the funny thing about it like
okay you know like if you
there's no judgement like there's no judgement
transactions is that what
the majority of pools are going to do
fuck no because the majority of pools
like they're going to love the
you know extra fees that come
with like ordinal transactions and people
speculating on ordinals and having fun
playing in ordinal culture
and that's great like again
you know yes I appreciate Udi's
like constant trolling of Luke like
and you know whatever the cat thing like whatever
whatever like I'm just making the point that
the system is a permissionless system
and it's working as intended
like the number of people that are going to actually like
you know use Ocean as a pool
number because you can make more money elsewhere
one of the other core devs came out against
you know there's been a lot of people who have been either neutral
or even though like ordinal
they'll just come out against filtering his concept
losing the battle because it's just like I don't
well like you said it's a permissionless
the thing about it is like I don't even
view it as win or lose I just view it as like
it's a choice it's a choice in
it's a permissionless system and you're allowed
to make choices just like I'm
allowed to like pay whatever
that has this like you know
turtle inscribed you know from
Trevor's amazing collection
fucking like I'm allowed to do
that I'm allowed to do that and there's nothing that
that's going to like change my
mind I've decided to do it already
you know what I mean like so what
and that's kind of like losing the argument
you know but like to me if he wants
you know ocean like he's the solo
guy who's got his fucking rigs
mining over there in the corner you know
like censoring ordinal transactions
like fine fuck him like you know let him
do it like let him be him you know like
that's like that's like the you know
the person who wants to dress in a particular
way or whatever like let him
let him so what all good let
the person be a person you know let them be a
that aspect I'm almost fine with the filtering
some of them have advocated like okay
this is spam and now we need to update
Bitcoin now to eliminate this
anyone who tries to like enforce
their own belief system on
who they want to be and that applies to fucking
politicians that applies to Bitcoiners
that applies to religious zealots
that applies to anybody right like
because it has this thing inscribed on it
enforce your fucking will on me
yeah people can have opinions on
their decisions and choices
percent the difference between
opinions and imposing I mean
that's the biggest difference
right so we have a special guest joining us
Jr. I guess he heard the space he's requesting
nb was hosting a space earlier and
you know it was just him going off
and I thoroughly enjoyed it
dude nb's a cheese weasel
yo I don't come in here at 12 47
pillar of web 3 I'm a main character
during the day when the sun's out I'm a main
character everyone's like oh yeah
delusional I'm not delusional
yeah I couldn't let that one slide
I mean like just straight principle that one required
anyway welcome to space everybody
ordinal sucks shout out to our sponsors
game.io you can check the pin tweet to
learn more about them appreciate them for sponsoring the space
life then turn off the space
but if you're enjoying the space click that button
in the bottom right hand corner and give it a like comment
retweet because it is the best way to support
in general I do want to throw it over to Danny
RSIC we got the quantum cats
hey hey guys so I had a few comments
about the cats so well first
International Humane Society
they published this list of how many cats
are eaten each year or something
like that and it's a large
number it's like a million or
ten million are eaten by people
what the fuck is wrong with you
okay seriously I mean that's serious
yo burn your east assets and stop
there was a guy named Luke Dash Jr
that's a big fan of eating cats like
Danny didn't just come up here and throw a stat
about eating cats out there wasn't
there was actually a wild out of context
I didn't even think of that
uh can you imagine we weren't even talking
about it go ahead go ahead Danny
yeah so ordinals right so ordinals are cool
and the quantum cats ordinals
are cool in certain ways too
mention maybe two points one is
so bitcoin has a scripting language
that actually lets you do potentially
powerful things and opcat
and the cat stands for concatenate
so combining basically two
strings and you put them together to make a
longer string so you can take two commands
in bitcoin script and put them together
to make a bigger command and that
was a suggestion years ago and more than ten
years ago but it was actually I think
this is a bit risky let's not
but people wanted to bring it back because it's
actually very powerful this opcat
that's kind of also part of the
which is like let's bring back opcat
because if you have opcat you can
actually do a lot of smart country type
so that's one of the things
about opcat or about quantum cats
the other thing I think earlier we're talking about
um the unsigned transaction
that's another quick feature of bitcoin
transactions and you can combine it with
ornose so what quantum cats did was
a bunch of transactions that they have
internally but they haven't broadcasted a mempool
and these transactions actually
um in the quantum cats case
that they've already inscribed on bitcoin
so when they reveal these unsigned
or when they actually send these transactions
to the mempool and they get mined
then your quantum cat will evolve
and that's how they're doing even though
inscriptions are immutable
and the code doesn't change
but you're changing the state which is a cool
a way you're using the bitcoin feature of unsigned
evolve or change the state of
immutable inscriptions so
that's another part of this art
of the quantum cats and that was actually
first done actually we did that first back in
June of 2023 where we evolved
the art of ocm dimensions
so it's really cool to see it
you know further where they
combine it with encryption to
evolve it while you can't even
see what the future evolution is
so I also just want to add some context
more interesting quotes and
tweets and I'm going to read
them but some of these are a bit
offensive and I'm just letting you guys know
and these are real quotes by Luke
still moral unless prohibited by
law I leave it's been a good
I had to remove him before
he could remove himself slavery
is still moral unless prohibited by law
in which case it's the sin of
disobedience another one is
if the intent is to simply prevent
conception even abstinence can
be sinful within marriage
sexual pleasure not ordered
towards procreation is always a
grave sin here's another one
allowing the sin so we shouldn't stop
it consider that it may very well be
also God's will that we intervene
perhaps he's allowing the attempt
going to read them these are insane
reading the top ten porn categories
earlier in the space and I was cool with that
I will not even read this
I'm just going to skip over this one
are you reading the Reddit
post from a while back of like
the craziest shit that Luke Dash Jr. has ever
said yeah yeah that thing's
nuts dude like he's said so much
just really out there stuff and
my understanding is he's not
trolling and he's actually very serious
and he's just this kind of very principled
individual and he has a framework
for viewing the world where this
all makes sense to him basically
I was going to be able to read these
and I thought it was going to become just light hearted
shit this is like really crazy
yeah I mean it's like it shouldn't be
on spaces but I won't read these
I didn't I didn't read I didn't look
through it before I started reading it that's my bad
bro the top signal was nb
leaving because he heard it bro
alright well at least we know he thinks masturbation
is a sin welcome to space everybody
alright so what did we miss I feel like we talked
about the RSIC's we talked about the quantum
a take Leo do you think they're too expensive
that's like definitely the as far as I know
the most expensive mint for something that's
around like what three to four thousand? Well you actually
about RSIC you didn't even ask him about
his thing I think we got off track
I'm happy to answer the question it's
I like to tell people remember
don't think in terms of the individual
of market cap so if you take
the supply and multiply it times 0.1
so that's like 14 million dollars roughly
I don't think that would put them in the top 10
I'm just doing it just a pretty objective analysis
I don't know what it does right
after mint or something like that but
you know Will and Udi Wertheimer
be in the top 10 ordinals
collections by market cap I would say
there's probably a decent chance that that's the case
unfair they are not a scenario
founder collects 14 million dollars
of it there's no company there's no
corporation nobody's sure exactly what
happens to it maybe hey bro are you
I'm just teasing I'm just teasing
you know what I'm saying though it's like basically
I'm more speaking there's obviously specific ordinals
alluding to I'm not going to call out projects
they're going to take this 14 million dollars
and go you know build an L2
on Bitcoin and try to scale Bitcoin and try to
solve a problem in Bitcoin so like I don't mind
at all I don't mind at all
like I get that people would like to buy
things less expensively like that's obviously
I don't like I find it really hard to complain about
if they raise 50 million dollars
like good for them I personally find it
really hard to complain in that situation
nobody's putting a gun to anyone's head making them buy it
they're going to use it to build an L2
and hire software engineers and
hopefully make Bitcoin a more
the sort of public good funding
problem they they're just
they're going about raising those funds
in a pretty unique way through
this BFP collection and I think that's
I'm sad because I don't have a
taproot whitelist situation
ordinal with me instead of him taking it
that we can't talk about on the space
my question actually is Udi is not a
Udi's from somewhere else I don't know
I believe he's from Israel
my tribe you know anyway so
but yeah he doesn't have all the same
raising money via ordinal
Bitcoin L2 land like totally cool
in the US it's definitely
not a good idea to do that
but yeah Udi could do whatever he wants
that's a fantastic part of being out of this
country and building in crypto is
you have so much less restrictions
so good for Udi I think that makes
but to be clear he's not publicly stated
that he's like this is all
you're just buying an NFT
he's not gone out of his way to publicly
state that so I just want to be really clear like this is all
I would say like just like
and for his own sake by the way cause you guys are
friends and I'm friends with him like don't say that
don't say anything you just said
right they're a corporation
I'm not sure where the entity lives
that entity raised seven and a half
is to build the Taproot Wizards
brand and build an L2 on Bitcoin
there's some really weird
organizational structure I would assume
the mint funds will go into a bank account
comes down to one thing which is
what is the perception of
the buyer based on statements made
like selling the thing so like
an NFT collection and there's
is going to come of it other than like
but if people start to buy an NFT
ear drop or something else
and they're not really by then
it becomes a token offering it becomes
essentially an unregistered securities offering
so it's really complicated
because like people want to market
things people want to make statements people want to do things
really careful so I don't think but I think
Udi's been really careful like I don't think Udi
has gone out of his way to
publicly say like oh you know
that's going to build an L2
or whatever like I think like
you may know because you're friends with Udi
or I'm friends with Udi like whatever
people have other bits of knowledge and
information but Udi himself
has not like come out and said that
I don't believe. So let me
just highlight a distinction that Naveen
mentioned and this is like
by the way this is super complicated annoying
shit that doesn't make any sense but like
unfortunately we have to talk about it
but there is a actual pretty big
distinction in Leo one of the things
you said and then Naveen sort of clarified
you can have a company that's
building technology that company
or another company doesn't even really
matter can be associated with the issuance
don't want to say and that
I'm willing to bet Udi hasn't said
use case of the mint funds is
if there is no use case of the mint funds
and people are just generating ordinals
because ordinals are cool and it's cool art
and it's to help like build awareness
around the taproot wizard brand and that's it
like then you're fine and if there's a company
responsible for building all
the tools that are being used to mint this
thing that is also fine but to
associate unfortunately and this is like the
stupidity of the law but like this is how
the effort of building an L2
not even for Udi but because U.S. citizens
may or may not be able to access
this mint unfortunately for everyone
no matter what country you live in the U.S. government
is going to come after you or prevent
you from coming into this country if they don't like
some shit and by the way the
likelihood of any of this is extremely low
from a reggae standpoint which is a type of
classification of a security which is basically
that even if you create something
outside like the U.S. is so pretentious to say
that if you create something outside
of the U.S. that is considered a security
important and so if you do that
and it can get into the hands
of a U.S. citizen without that citizen
which is like psycho that the U.S. does but they do this
right like this has happened historically
so it's just important. Hold on
I want to be really clear you know
you like at the end of the day
the regulators are just interpreting
and the regulator may choose to come
after you and the regulator has essentially unlimited
funding and it's an unfair
fight and therefore it becomes
de facto law and there's a big difference there
dude I would not disagree on anything you just said
you're a hundred percent right I'm speaking
briefly but that is correct and
these distinctions by the way are actually kind of important
I know they sound kind of stupid but everything
yeah yeah a lot of people think
that like regulators in the United
and then the lawyers that represent
you know individual companies or people
are also so it's basically
like reading tea leaves right
so it's basically what it is so you're paying
you're paying these really expensive attorneys
to essentially read you know between
and decide whether or not the
issue with it and then the problem is the
moment the regulator takes issue with it
it's a real fucking problem
a hundred plus million dollars in the bank
you know because the amount
of time and effort and energy it
go and like fight the regulator
fight in very unfair ways like
look at what just happened with that one case
where like the SEC outright
and now they're just trying to dismiss it now they're
trying to like sweep it under the rug they're like oh
we fucked up let's just like you know get out of this
literally like cause people's
business bank accounts and personal bank accounts
to be fucking closed because
I forgot the exact facts of the case but
it's like a huge disaster like the US
government has so much power
we could go down we could go down the rabbit hole
but the only reason why I said this and everything
to me is right in my eyes at least
the only reason why I bring this up is Leo
these shoes on my side of things
and having started with the
comment about you know when funds
exist in a concentrated way in crypto
and the promises that are made associated with those
vulnerabilities of the let's call him
promoter in this case it's Udi but in
any case it's whoever is promoting
and potentially benefiting from the
funds and so in talking about
this stuff even in spaces and this is a
recorded space it's just important like if
you can say like it's actually like
this is the kind of shit that actually comes up in
testimony and this happened SPF
this is exactly the kind of shit that happened
like maybe Udi changes the world
and people come back one day and everyone's mad
maybe this shit changes the world and people are listening
to this space in court like it would not surprise me
maybe a less than 1% chance but it could totally happen
anyway that's the only reason why I brought it up
because I like Udi a lot like if he hasn't said
the mint funds are going directly toward that use
then we shouldn't assume that
we can assume that his company is building
cool shit in crypto and the same company is
responsible for this mint and that's maybe
a crazy semantic thing to
having been on the other side of it it kind of matters
and I agree with everything we've done
I like this discussion that you guys had about the
but wait Leo I interrupted you you were talking about all the cool things
I just wanted to like put that up
no look like fundamentally
you know I don't think there's
a tweet out there that Udi is saying
like we're going to use this for this
saying that you know it is public
information that you know
they are working on building
an L2 on Bitcoin and raising money
talk to Udi so like nearly
every single day I don't think it's public information
for what it's worth I really
before I started my company
sessions with the former chair of the SEC
Jay Clayton to even figure out if it was possible
even though I'm not a lawyer
and even still today everything
to be said is right that all these regulators
are quite literally just regulators they're not
lawmakers they're interpreting the law and
who knows if they're even fucking
I think it's exciting that they're building
cool shit on top of Bitcoin
the movement that I'm not a part of
yet dammit. Well you gotta just
grab some ordinals you gotta grab some cats
when they do launch but yeah
the Taproot Wizards are trying to
elevate and improve Bitcoin
Did I just kill the vibe?
I don't even know if you can hear me
blah I don't think you can hear farmer
I'm gonna drop you down and bring you right back up
but yeah Leo, no the Taproot Wizards
haven't necessarily said anything about it all too
he's never told me that he
I think the objective is to
base layer proposals to improve
that then we can build cooler shit off of
good relationship, they have a strong technical
but I don't think they've started to work
from a functional feasibility perspective
at the moment without some opcode improvements
not possible and anyone who
has some trust minimized way
to bridge Bitcoin over and it's not
a real L2 because it's not using
Bitcoin as a consensus layer
Quantum Cats and Taproot Wizards
likely just going to use the funds to further
that don't allow us to do things
Yeah, so specifically the L2 research
fundamentally that is obviously
again, that's mostly public
it's fairly public information
you kind of follow the project and
everything they've been doing and the competitions and stuff they've been in
have this kind of functioning
ZK Rollup on Testnet which is
really cool that they've been publicly
working on but, yeah, I mean fundamentally
very early stages, like I agree
you can't, you cannot do a true L2
on Bitcoin right now and that's, I assume
why they're in the R&D kind of phase
And I mean, it's a small team of six people
right, like you have Dan Held
you have Eric, you have Udi, you have
Randall, you have a couple
other guys that are involved and
if you just look at the background of everyone that's involved
on the team, they're not NFT
people, I mean, they enjoy
but, you know, functionally speaking
their core competencies lie in
technical research, Bitcoin
to be excited about, leap ordinals
Wait, Joe, I saw a post that you made
did you mint 15 of the cats?
I've got to have like 9 figures
throw it over to Witter's, Witter's good to see
you up here, what's going on, what do you think?
Blau, Darlin, I'd have an
adverse reaction to a digital
wearing a PFP that didn't make
that's like the first point
you're not waiting for adoption
you're just waiting for more
whenever it comes to anything that's
on Bitcoin because it's already a
and then I'll leave you with
and I think that everyone
should get on board with that
You'll be blessed if you have 7
You know, John Elway was number 7
Alright, Witter's is dropping cryptic
I mean, Witter's, are you saying you get a
cat fruit wizard if you have 7 cats?
space where my brain goes, is that?
Like, would Udi be telling
Witter's this kind of alpha and having
Witter's say it on a late night leap space?
Leo, the funniest alpha that I've heard someone
speculate on is the cats evolve
I don't know what your issue is
and I believe it, so it's
You don't know Udi, man, seriously
The other proposal someone
and dead cats is some cats
if they come taproot wizards
Is that the 5th challenge?
think, though, man? Did you buy it?
the allow list, I'm trying to buy public
Yeah, I'm trying to buy public
right now, which I might not
Wait, what happened? Do I not know something?
No, I literally just said it
I'm not on the allow list
because my influencer magic did not work properly
I think you got kicked out of the cabal
you know, like fight club
Dude, I'm getting kicked out of everything
Just getting kicked out of everything
Yeah, no, I want to mint, though
I should be able to mint tomorrow, hopefully
two months ago or so, you were thinking
about a normal project, where
is your thoughts about that? I know we didn't get to
speak this past week at RL, but
yeah, I'd love to hear where your thoughts are
Yeah, I really want to do something, so I
know what it would be, and I think I've told a couple
and I think it's really interesting and unique
That being said, I did not realize
I was definitely in a euphoric state
when I put out that tweet, and I was like, fuck it
we're going to give it away for free, and it's going to be
amazing, and I still want to do that
and then I got a lot of DMs afterwards
I'm like, yo, this is going to cost you a half million dollars
to inscribe all this stuff
You responded to me, and you said
if there's a will, there's a way
Yeah, I mean, absolutely, Lee, but
I hope it happens, I'm here to support
an inscribe to Mint thing
is kind of the way here, was it
Billy that did something similar, where people
can just pay a couple hundred dollars a piece
to basically pay the inscription fees, and
I think that's the way that I want to do it, and it would
Obviously I'd retain a certain percentage
of the supply, that's the way I'm just being transparent
Yo, what's good, what's good? Just want to
give a shout out real quick, I'm giving away
All right, Ormals do suck, man
Look, I still want to do it, and
I just want to do it the right way
It's just like the problem is that if any
quote-unquote influencer person has more
visibility, decides to drop an Ormals
they're just going to get the fucking Elena treatment
And they're just going to get
So, you're just going to get
called a grifter, called this,
called that, even if you give it away for free
So it's just, doing it the right way
And Luke called me a scammer
Bad Brothers Leap, this is like the craziest
part about Bitcoin, is it's probably the only
chain where people complain about
getting airdropped free money
that have airdropped them free money
headache? I genuinely want to put
something out, because I don't want to call
myself an artist or this and that, but I create
art daily on my iPad, I create
music, I've been doing it all my
life, and I want to put something out
and I want to leave a legacy on the blockchain
that's going to last forever, and like
I went on a rant about this yesterday
I genuinely want people to look back
as cringe as it sounds, and be like, yo
legacy on the blockchain, like that dude was there
early, and he really cared about this shit
and tried to move it in the right direction, and that's
genuinely what I want, I'm sure
I could rip an ordinals collection
make a bunch of money if I really wanted to, but that's
want to give it out for free, and I want to find the right way to
You know what's the suggestion? Bitcoin is
all about first is first, we haven't had a first
pull up yet, so if you capture
that market, you can basically
be the first pull up on Bitcoin
I think also Leap, like you could do
that's the parent, and then just over time, I don't know
you just continue to create
and scribe some stuff that you love,
re-inscribe it on that sort of set
I don't know, like just have fun, Leap
Yeah, so I would want to do like a parent child
type whatever, I'm not really sure
the technicalities behind it, but like using
because it's inscribed at 77,000
Oh it's very easy to do the parent child, very easy
and I know who I'd give it out to, like I
want to give it out to basically the people that have been
supporting me this whole time
initially I was thinking 500 units
maybe I'll do a little bit less than that
and if everybody could make a bag selling them
on the secondary, I think that would be cool as fuck
like just a way to say thank you
if everyone could make some money would be pretty cool
and then obviously I could keep a couple to like give to
family members and keep for myself
things like that, so that's the way I'm thinking about it
but like also it's like do you want to do
a PFP, do you want to do this or that
so I started like fucking around with like
learning how to draw layers
and work with them and I just don't even know if that's
what I want to do either, I feel like it's
there are really great PFPs
on Bitcoin and there will be a ton
more in the future, there's gotta be
what I was planning on doing, I gotta look through our DMs
but I know I told a couple people
I'll actually DM you if I haven't told you yet
so we'll have to figure it out
but um, I'll throw it over to Villetta
I just, hey guys, hey leap, hey everyone
I just wanted to come up here
and encourage you to please
put your music on Bitcoin
you're gonna find it, be super
creative, I put two songs
you know, if you need any help
let me know, I'm not a dev
I think you should, you know
maybe like, like God said, little
little and it doesn't have to be massive
right away but I heard you say that
waiting for it, kind of watching
and then I heard you mention it again, I just want to
come up and say that you should
I think people would love it
and it would be very innovative, not many people
so yeah, I think it would be
pretty groundbreaking, you should, anyway
So I'm not thinking like songs
per se, more like sonic landscapes
and the thing that I want to do
I hate to like, hype it up in a way that I probably shouldn't
but like, it's just never been done before
and there's a lot of like
careful consideration with the way I want to approach it
time comes for me to like, finally
miss something, it's going to be sick and I think it will be well
why do you want to do it, you know, like
what do you, you know, what
what gives you the urge to like
yeah, this would be really cool, like I'd like to do this
so, I mean, it was definitely not from a money perspective
I mean, I work, I have a fucking job
I make, you know, that's how I make my money
and I'll trade here, so it's like not from
and obviously sponsors and things like that
Shout out to Gamein, shout out to
Gamein.io, our sponsor for this month
so it's not, it's definitely not a
it's genuinely cause, dude like
I look at like what Udi's doing, or like
any of these people are doing, I'm like
yo, that is fucking, that shit will last forever
like, they are literally leaving a legacy
that's so important, whether you agree or
and that is sick, and I just
don't want to be known as a spaces host
but if I spend the next five
years, and the only thing I'm known for
is just like, oh, Lee posted like really cool
spaces, like shout out to the potato chip
I fucking failed, because I have an
opportunity, I believe, to
do something that stands the test
stuff that I've been working on for a long time
outside of even what we're discussing here
do I guy and I have something really cool
and we've made some big moves on it
recently, but we're just not ready to
talk about it publicly yet
but yeah, I would consider myself
I could probably host spaces for the next
few years, and maybe I make like a
I think like in a bull market
a really strong space can make a couple
million dollars, I genuinely believe that
in the last bull cycle, which
I did not have any traction last
bull cycle, but there were individuals getting paid
per fucking, like for like two spaces
like there are, I know people who got paid
50,000 dollars for one clubhouse room
in the last cycle, like it's insane
just bizarre numbers, and like
there are people who are making millions
of dollars over just like short periods
of time, just doing spaces, clubhouse rooms
things like that, so that's like really
I would think it would be fucking sick leap
like if you, if you did do an
election, whether it was ordinals or not
it would be two years of you doing spaces
to the heartbreak, to the pain
like when you guys came out to LA
Airbnbs week to week, that would be sick
but also do what you want to do
but yeah, what is the story
because I don't think, I mean
I've only kind of paid attention to
the spaces as soon as you kind of
as a byproduct of it, but
curious as to where you got your start
in hosting spaces and whatnot
I'm just a sicko, I'm just a fucking sicko
and I'm just in love with this shit
but there is, I've told the story
and I'll just tell you guys part of what
I'm thinking about doing with the ordinals
and it kind of has to do with what you just described
I should not be saying that someone will probably
front run me, I don't give a fuck, I'll just come up with something else
want to do is, I am a musician
a bunch of albums, none of them did well
because I fucking suck at rapping
and I went to school for classical piano
with the ordinals is basically
so I've done a lot of spaces
inscription is going to have a visual component
that I'm making myself, a lot of it's already
the sonic qualities, like the audible qualities
of it, each ordinal is going
but not the space itself, but basically
the audio of the space is synthesized
into like a sonic landscape
so in chronological order
will be the audio, or each inscription
will include the audio of
each space that I've done
again, like audible experience, so that
is, that's like what I'm thinking in terms of
what it's going to be, and I
just think that's like really interesting, because then
through like the chronological order, like
if you own inscription 1 of
the collection, that's like the first space
I've ever done that's recorded that I can
access, right, like all the way up until
you know, until the present time, and there's like some
really important spaces that I've done
career, whether it was like the original
Frank 101 I did, or even last night
the fucking Beanie 101, like
there's been a lot of spaces
that I've done that were just, in my opinion
really important for me, and
people who care about my career, or like
my journey within the space, can specifically
go search out that specific
inscription within the collection, and I
think that's fucking cool, like
I think that's like a really
because I don't want to just like put out a song
like I'm not like a great singer, and like
my songs aren't that good, whatever
so that's, I probably shouldn't even
say it, should I have said that?
So that's what I want to do, but it's like
very difficult, because you have to
single space that I've done
and I've started working on it too,
it's a fucking headache, to like
and, dude you gotta go back
very far on the timeline to find some
of this stuff, and then to documentate
like every single one, what that
space was, and then like try to create
a visual that goes with what the context
of that space was, even like the
original spaces where ZK was like telling
us about organelles, like way back in the beginning of
last year, like those are like
really important spaces for me
there's like other like really crazy spaces
there was a space I did, it was one of the biggest
space, it was the biggest space I did up until that point
concurrent, and it was basically Frank
versus King Fudd, during like the
whole like Shill and Villain era
and that space, like that
catapult, like that was like, we had
so much momentum after that space
and like that one, like for people who care about that
part of the story, could be an interesting piece
to collect. I think one of my most
spaces that I joined with
Uleap was, I think it was almost
Punchy Pang ones, and like he did an AMA
I think with you, and like just a bunch
of people that came up, like I don't know, I particularly like that
speaker, obviously a great founder
and that one was particularly
memorable, I was able to ask a couple questions, so
yeah, you've put on amazing
over these past couple of years, so
congrats, man, on all your
success, hopefully more in the future.
No, I appreciate that, actually I
forgot about that Luca space, that was
so when I went to Art Basel
that's like where I met Thread Guy, that's where
I really connected with Kevin, that's where
like meeting Thread Guy pushed me to move
across the country with him and all this stuff,
but I met Luca at the Punchy
Penguin's event that year, and I
never met, never interacted, and he basically
pulled me aside and he was like, I want to do a space
and I was like, alright, fuck yeah,
shortly after that, and I think that was like the first
bigger space that Luca had done,
that was like the first space that kicked off his
and I even remember back then he was
talking about all these concepts that they're now
succeeding with with Punchy Penguin's,
and back then it sounded crazy,
all the things that they wanted to do,
it was just like very difficult
things to achieve, and they achieved not
only every single one of them, but
10X, what they were even talking about
Yeah, there's been a lot of good ones,
there's been a lot of good ones,
so I want to find a way to do it
in the right way, and for
the people that have been listening to me for
two, two and a half years at this point,
and just like participating in the spaces,
I don't know, it could be a cool little
obviously I'm not a space host of
a couple hundred people and this and that,
but I've hopped around spaces
for like a year and a half
like I was in a position of like
the same way where I'm like, I'm not trying to
mod of a certain discord,
which I can't talk about because
I think he was in here earlier, so he's going to kill me,
but yeah, I can't be a discord mod of a certain
discord, or I can't just be
known as like a space talker or this and that,
you know, I was like, yo, I'm
a fucking artist, you know, I want to make artwork
out and I was like, hey, you know, then fucking
they were like, bro, just fucking
put out artwork, and so, yeah,
that's something that kind of just
hearing you talk like, oh, I don't want you to
be known as, if I'm just known as
who's just around, you know, like influencer
person, you know, not even like, I'm not even like
a big account than I felt,
you know, so that's kind of
like where I was at, and the
only thing I would say is like, yo, you should just
however you can, and like the best way you can
and just put it out there as soon as possible because
you know, ideas are one thing, but
action's another, and that's what I've learned
I really think even conceptually,
like your pieces are going to be insane, like
if anybody is like into art,
I love talking about artwork, bro, that shit is like,
it's sick, I hate bullish talk,
it's so boring to me, like I hear
bullish talk all day, so hearing you talk
about your artwork in a way that is
actually meaningful has like, yo,
I hope everybody caught that, because
whatever you do is not going to be just like, oh, here's
it's going to be maxmented, and you're going to make
a billion dollars, like yo, you thought about
like, a million volume, you know, it's going to be something
that's going to be worth a lot more
years, because you're documenting
and things and events that happen
in an artistic way, you're documenting
your journey, and your journey
involves a lot of different
people, so I think it's part
of culture, a lot of, yeah, I was
in a Bitcoin maxi space the other day
I heard the kid talk, he was going back
and forth with these fucking maxis
and this guy was like, there's no one
that is going to be culturally
relevant, there's no culturally relevant
person on Bitcoin, or in this now, or
whatever, and he was kind of facts, you know,
certain people don't really have
relevance, but you know what, we don't
know what's going to be culturally relevant in 20 years
we don't know what's going to be culturally relevant, we don't
know how people are going to look back at it
and see it, and how they're going to position
going on here, because art, definitely
history, you know, so I think
whatever you make is going to be fucking sick
and you should definitely go for it
bless, you've been around
for a long time, you'll definitely be getting one of them
many things that are just universally understood
but art is kind of one of them
and I think art is anything that really
just makes you feel something at the end of the day
so I think food can be art
I think really anything can be
I was talking to someone about this earlier, they were like, you need
to basically go to other platforms
and monetize, so on and so forth
because Twitter doesn't have native monetization
especially for things that we do
and that's totally true, but I think
what Twitter does do, and I think what
the goal for a lot of people should be
then execute on your ideas
Twitter is really good at that
Twitter is really good at that, there's a lot of people
I think like ZK is a great example
I've watched this grind for the past
two, three years, if not more
fucking movers and shakers and leaders
in this space, and that's insane
and I was saying this two years ago, I'll say this again
now, there are people that are probably
in this space right now, maybe on stage
maybe in the listeners, that in the next four or five
years, there's somebody in here that will create
something that fundamentally changes the way
we look at this industry, and that's
fucking exciting, like that is
if you just really think about
that, there's somebody in here
that will create something, I mean
look at Casey, Casey Rotomark
Bitcoin, something that was so
solid, and now you have this guy
who creates this thing that
yeah, it's taken over the world
we see this with a lot of people too
this is really the only industry because
it's so nascent that you can do that, because
we have this advantage of being
on Twitter, and we understand
this social landscape, you actually
have the potential to gain leverage in a
positive way, and then create something
big and have people to support it, dude
that's why I get so frustrated, and I wrote a tweet
about this earlier today, that we just
accept a normality of speculative
gambling being the only reason that we're
here, and while speculative gambling, someone
said this to me recently, I think it's actually
very, maybe it was in this space, somebody said it
where it secures the network, it provides
people being active, so I think it is a staple
of why we're here, but it isn't the
I really just encourage people to fucking
do this experiment, I also think that we're in
a meta, and a cultural shift
within the social part of
web3, that is actually encouraging
and not only encouraging, but
respecting and understanding people trying
things, and if you go back even
we were even talking about this with Beanie last night
you know, love him or hate him
he had a point last night that I think was
to just assume that anybody who creates
something that doesn't immediately become
a success or become a success in general
or a scam or something, and I think that stops
so many people from experimenting
and stops them from innovating and trying new things
and I think people should just fucking send it
and not carelessly, like not
at the expense of other people's capital
and if the next two years pass, and
the only thing I can show for it is that I made a little bit
the biggest failure of my entire life
that is like literally the biggest
failure, is if I just come out of the
next cycle, and sure, I'm sure I'll make
money and whatever, but that is not
and maybe enough for some people
shout out to the space, shout out to
we've got to remember guys, this technology
I just want to say, that's why I'm in it
that's where my name comes from
world power, because I paid
attention to the most powerful things in the world
in 2011, I decided I'm always
going to be in that alignment
this is world changing stuff
100% that's why I'm in it
that's why I pay my dues every day
Tommy, not only is it world
impactful, like I think about
one day I would hope to be
lucky enough to have kids
will be lucky enough to have kids as well
and they're healthy and good to go and all that stuff
and I'm sitting in New York
right now and I'm looking out my window and I just
see this fucking concrete jungle and all these
different buildings and all these lights
there's tens of millions of people
Bro, let's link while you're in New York
Yeah, no, we need to, we need to
I'm actually speaking at a panel tomorrow night
and I'll send you the info
like all these fucking people
just going about their lives, doing whatever
we have a way to actually
I don't know man, free them
from the shackles that is the traditional financial
system and give people another way
like it's about optionality
it's not that crypto is the end all be all
because I actually don't think it is
I don't think that everything should be tokenized
and I don't think blockchain is a solution for everything
I really don't, but for the things
that it's good at, it is so
It's about optionality, it's about competition
competition breeds freedom
I agree with you Lee, I like it
it's just like time for something different
you know what I mean? It is just
time for something different and crypto
and like, we are very desensitized to it
because we live it, we breathe it, we bleed it
day in and day out, we fucking
put our blood sweat and tears into this thing
and even these spaces, right
there's like what, 360 people in here
that isn't, it's a lot to us
it's not a lot to a lot of other people
but again, these conversations
that we are so, they're so casual
to us, we just open the space, we chat, whatever
leagues ahead of the rest
of the world in the way that we think about this
and it's such an advantage that we
have the opportunity to just
and just chat with experts
I don't know, I could rant about this all
I'm gonna just leave it there, but hopefully you guys
but anyway, I think this is actually
a good spot to end the space
it's almost 2 o'clock in the morning here
Big God, I saw your message, let's
but look, I love you guys, shoutout to
gamin.io, again, they power
the space for the month and they keep me going
to all the speakers, please give them a follow
I can't do this without you guys
seriously, it's literally impossible
you should have heard me at the beginning of the space
I had nothing to talk about, I was talking about the top
10 porn categories, it wasn't great
so don't go back and listen to it
I appreciate you guys so much, please go get some rest
same time, same place tomorrow, 10pm Eastern