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Good afternoon, well-coin talk community, my name is Noah. I'm here today with Aaron and Bobby of the Oregon blockchain group. Gentlemen, before we get started, give our audience
experience, quick intro about who you are, what you're currently studying, university, how you found out about Web 3, and how you plan on bridging your studies with your career choice or rather career aspirations.
Hey Noah, thanks so much for having us on. First of all, I really appreciate the chance to spread the word about what we're doing here at the University of Oregon with the Oregon Boxing Group. Personally, my name's Aaron Rudder and I'm a finance concentration major at the University of Oregon with a minor in economics and I'm also the president of the Oregon
blockchain group. Our club has founded a few years ago and it actually, I run if we has thrived during COVID with a lot of people taking an interest in what crypto is, spending the time to learn on their own. Personally, what I want to do is not really go into traditional finance, but I want to go into Web 3 and I have a position lined up with a couple of different
and start up ideas with various community members I met through being the president of this blockchain group. Bobby, do you want to step in and give your take on that? Yeah, great introduction Aaron. I think we'll talk more about the club as we get through this, but little introduction on who I am.
And honestly, why you should care today is, you know, my major is a master, excuse me, a bachelor's in finance and minor in computer science, but all of that's really secondary to Oregon Blockchain Group. It comes before my major because it's more important in many aspects. And so what I do for Oregon Blockchain Group is a lot of
different things I focus on communication and I also work on our validator nodes and upkeep our archival nodes for Ethereum. I also am taking part in coding for Cosm wasm right now and learning kind of the basics there. The question of how
we got, how I got into Web 3 is kind of an interesting work around. So I was actually reading a book about DNA sequencing and how this gets me into it is, you know, the nucleotides in DNA all combine with each other, you know, A and T and
I started researching interoperability and came across many different protocols and we can talk about that more later but that's kind of how I got into it and how my major applies to what I'm going to be doing after university in a lot of ways it does with finance and computer science but in some
other ways it doesn't. What I'd say I would like to do after I graduate is work in the gutter of crypto and really push forward this technology to realize the future we all hope it to be.
Love it. Okay. And so before we jump into the Oregon, the Oregon blockchain group guys, Bobby, you said you've been learning coding or you've been coding for Cosm wasm. As a first time I heard of Cosm was when we had Cosmos on yesterday. Can you tell us a bit more about what that is?
Cosm wasm is a smart contract coding platform that you can do a lot of different things with. It allows for cross chain interoperability and I can break down that word. Basically what that means is two blockchains are talking to each other and they're communicating through smart contracts.
over a general message platform. What's unique about Cosmism is that it's coded and rust, which is a far more available language to learn than solidity, at least in my opinion, I'm sure that's a hot topic. And why I'm trying to do it today is because it's a primary, rust is a primary language and the cosmos you go
system, like I said, interoperability brought me into blockchain, and it's kept me here since. So I wanted to learn more on how these primitives, Cosm-Wasem and IBC empower blockchains to interoperate and communicate. And so in a one-liner, Cosm-Wasem is for
communicating cross chain through smart contracts as well as efficient way to code smart contracts on loan chains.
Beautiful description gentlemen, let's get started I want to talk about the organ blockchain group when did it when was it founded how long you guys been around and also let's talk about some different ways that you facilitate the group the events you guys Organize the the different ways
is teaching the greater student body at your organization and would love to hear some more details into that and anything else that you feel necessary to share and then from there we can kind of dive in to nuts and bolts and talk about each individual component. Yeah, no, that's a great question. I'll kick us off and then I'll have Bobby kind of talk about
about their responsibility, he fulfills in those contexts. So the club's history is a little varied. We started technically about four, four and a half years ago, and it was really just a social club of like four or five dudes talking about crypto. And that was really before DeFi summer.
before NFTs were a hot topic and it was centered around what the tech was doing. We have a professor named Dr. Steven McKeon and he's a partner at his own venture capital firm called Collab Currency. He was a big advocate of crypto and he had been in the space a long time and he saw what Cal Berkeley was doing with
their club and he said, "Hey, why can't the University of Oregon also have a club related to blockchain?" And so through his mentorship and through some generous funding from the Ripple University fund, we were able to create a student club here and the funding goes towards the
running as to conferences, running nodes, doing all sorts of outreach events. And then COVID hit. And for about the first six months to a year of COVID, the club was on my support. But then towards the back half of COVID, there was a massive influx in interest in
What blockchain technology could do as the bull market was in full swing and a lot of people were learning myself included I was putting in the work in isolation to learn how a blockchain work what Bitcoin was with proof of stake was with proof of work was and and so the club really took off I again at the
kind of the back end of COVID we saw about 40-50 members some of which were master students some of which were business students undergrad computer science who's really a full mix of perspectives and diversity now with the bear market and full swing interest has somewhat declined but it honestly we're very
press with the amount of building that's going on. And when I stepped in as President last spring of the group, I wanted to take our club beyond simply being an incubator for kind of a venture capital style perspective on uncripto because through Professor Steven McKeon's mentorship
we had a fund that we managed in the space and we still do, where we would look at different projects from a venture style perspective, where we look at founders, the community, very qualitative analysis, and to grow beyond that, what we've instituted is a deliverable program.
where every member in the club produces one deliverable per term. And that can take the form of writing a research article on medium, doing some governance work for our various governance, uh, dows like API three. We did that for a while. Currently we're in talks with idle and we're getting a governance situation set up with them. We were in talks with
been recent Horowitz to do some contracted governance work on their behalf. And we're always looking for more opportunities on that front. And pitching to the fund is always still a deliverable to do, presenting an educational topic is a popular one as well among our members, such as like what is maximal extractable value
or how to network in the crypto space. It could really be anything because there's always something to glean from an educational presentation. And after being in talks with various community members from the couple firms to interoperability projects like Axel R.
I even talking with you guys at a whale coin. The community seems to be really impressed with what we're doing. Our club has a competency in business. The Georgetown group is more focused on policy and UW is more focused on computer science along with Stanford. So our competency
and business. And the goal for our club is to prepare members to be able to go out into the traditional workforce and have a strong background in crypto, like Starbucks just released their NFT rewards program Odyssey. They're going to need employees that are familiar with blockchain to have a solid understanding of its mechanics
But also speak business and can look at it from a top-down perspective not just bottom up and so we want to facilitate that opportunity for business students, but also we want a cater so the people like Bobby and I who were believers were full fledged we want to work in crypto and we want to grow the
the permission list and disintermediated aspects of what blockchain can offer. So to that end, we run an educational program for our community and oftentimes, the primary people that attend these meetings are new onboardies. So we have an interview process for the
a club, but it's really just looking at who's curious, who wants to spend the time to learn about what this is. We run them through five weeks of one hour a week educational program, and then after that they're expected to produce a deliverable as an ongoing proof of education and proof of participation in the space. And Bobby has stepped in
as our lead-up communications and he's done a phenomenal job with outreach in the community and I'm going to let him speak a little bit more to those initiatives. Bobby. Yeah, really good to know. I kind of came on today and I'm like wondering how I can contribute some worth
to the audience here and answer the question at the same time. So Aaron touched on a lot of different topics from our education program to what we're working on within it like nodes and how to facilitate fundamental analysis on finance. And we can dive into those subjects
projects, I think a little bit more. So what we do for fundamental analysis on finances is we say, hey, are you interested in X coin? And here's the way that you can do it. And how is this different from a legacy finance perspective? For instance, if I'm
I have the PE ratio, I have their top and bottom margins, I need to figure out their cash flows. How does a regular finance major go from that structured approach?
to what crypto is. In what ways can we educate our masses here at the university to be able to do that. And so here's the way that we do that and hopefully this will provide some value to some of our listeners is
We focus on the first question is how does the token accrue value? That should always be your first question. If you're going to invest in a protocol, a D app, or anything else, that should be your first question. And that can come in a lot of different ways depending on your blockchain and the implementation
for that. And then the second question is, what is the community like? Because community isn't a moat as much of a moat in legacy finance, but in crypto and blockchain, the community is entirely a huge moat. And from there, we branch off in
different ways, but those are kind of the two primary objectives we focus on through finance. And why are these like university clubs important and why should you all care? Well, well, there's a reason why and the reason for that is back in the 1990s,
The internet was just beginning and guess who pushed this incredible technology towards its fruition and towards the end we have it today. It was universities and it was the university clubs that said, "Hey, there's something here. There's something that's worthwhile and we think we want to explore it."
And they were really the boots on the ground in the 90s and that's kind of what we see today is that hey, you know 2023 we've just hit a huge bear market which was a cataclysm which was on the onsite of a cataclysmic event with Tara and many other stuff that happened and and we're kind of out of
asking this question of like why? Why be here? Why continue to teach what we do in OBG, maybe even at UPenn or UW? Well, it's because we think these things have value and they have inherent meaning just like they did in the 90s and it's not a fad. And so what we teach today in our club
is here's the application on the fundamental ways that you can use blockchain. Here's how they work in cryptography primitives, in censorship or resistance, and all those large words that we talk about so much. And we try and give them the basis of knowledge. And then from there, we let them explore because it's important.
care about different technologies for different reasons and we provide them the facilities to do that. So kind of to come back and answer your question in a couple sentences on like what is my responsibility? What is what do we do as a club and and how does that tie together? Well my responsibility is to
have our members inherit this vision that blockchain is something that will push humanity towards a better future. And we do that through a bunch of different ways, but the primary way is education.
Yeah, no, I mean, I think you nailed it, Bobby. And the way that I phrase it, or rather the way that I articulated, is a bit more specific with, the analogies great, right? Why are these blockchain clubs important? Because back in the 1990s, we saw the internet and
And a lot of people, if you go back, you can find clips of people meaming email and meaming the internet and really just making fun of something that is now a part of every single one of our lives. And I think the same thing is going to happen with Web 3 and I think that Gen Z
and Gen Alpha are going to be the next big wave of interest, money, adoption, builders that funnel into this industry. So that's why we've been reaching out to different blockchain groups and clubs and societies because we want to help spearhead that educational initiative and we want to do it at the crowd
to focus on a couple things that were mentioned by both of you. I believe Aaron or Bobby, I can't remember, but you guys work on validator nodes, validator nodes for which ecosystems it only Ethereum? Yeah, I can take that one. So right now we aren't running a validator on Ethereum because of the
the East limit to do so. It's too expensive to be quite honest. But that is a goal. Right now in this current period we are running an archive node and an archive node is basically what stores the historic state of the blockchain.
versus that of a prune node that only stores a smaller version of the state we could say. So right now we run an archive node and we can query that if we want data from the Ethereum network. And then we also run a Juno testnet validator. There's a lot
of plans in the work right now and I'll talk about them right now. We started on Quick Silver and Quick Silver is a Lending Platform, excuse me, it's not a Lending Platform, it's a Staking Derivative Platform which basically means like, "Hey, I have a Staking Token Locked
on chain A, but I want to utilize this collateral. So quick silver allows you to utilize your staking token on chain A on chain B through a bunch of different processes, which we don't need to get into. That was the first test net we practiced on, and we want to become proficient with that. The second test net we are on right now is the Junot
The Juno TestNet implements cause and was in which we were talking about earlier. It's a permission list network which means that anyone can deploy smart contract code on chain. And why did we choose this? Well, it'll be up for a while and we want to become proficient before heading the main net. And so our next step is main net.
And where are we going to go to mainnet? Well, there's something called Gravity Bridge. There's a woman named Deborah Simpier who works on all theonnetwork, which we can talk about later if we want to get into it, but I'll keep it in the scope of our question here. And she also works on Gravity Bridge. And Gravity Bridge is like a bridge
from EVM chains like Ethereum and even Layer 2's on Ethereum, Polygon to the Cosmos ecosystem. And they provide a lot of different services, but the reason we're going to start there is because we feel like it requires a lot of technical expertise to run a validator on there.
show everyone that we have that expertise so we'll be getting that ballad iter up in the next month I actually have one more thing to do with that and that's implementing a monitoring service Which for anyone curious is just like hey? What's my CPU usage? What's my GPU usage? How much power do I have what how much?
Rand, do I have left? So on. We don't need to get into it. But kind of the goal of like the overarching goal of this validator service is, hey, we need some funds in the club and we want consistent, reliable revenues and this will produce that. And we also think that people want to provide money to our organization because we're trying to educate the next
Next members that will join crypto and web 3 and we think that's valuable. As well as we want to provide a way for students to learn about this technology on a very technical basis. Right? What we provide now is a high level business overview
And what we provide in the future is a mix between these two. So your question is like what are we doing now? We're running on Testnet. What are we doing in the future? We're going to mainnet. What do we intend to do in a year? Run four to five validators on mainnet blockchains in the Cosmos ecosystem.
get enough revenue to build up that 26th to be a validator. We'll talk about that then, but for now, that's the answer to your question there. Yeah, that's so cool, man. I honestly have always wanted to experiment and run a validator and really play around with those components and just haven't had, I don't know,
I mean, I haven't really had the time or let's say the kind of the curiosity to try to figure it out. We do. My friend and I do run a validator node for MENA protocol, but it runs off of VPS. It's the VPS that's somewhere in Europe. I'm not sure exactly where.
But really it's cool that you guys have these in-house validators that are playing with and you're learning about what would be some advice to people who have never tried one, tried running a validator. So sure, yeah, I was gonna say I was gonna interrupt you there and tell you the current state of affairs on validation and this question
really really hits on it and so what is what is this current state? Well it's a problem. It sucks to get through this documentation. 95% of it is out of date. The other 5% is wrong and I've scoured the internet and every single source that you could possibly find.
and it takes hours to find the right documentation and then implement it. It's not easy and it should be easier. Again, back to our analogy back in the internet in the 1990s, it was really hard to run hosts. Hosts are like nodes that connect to the network basically. And the reason it was hard to run
because documentation was terrible and the only people that were doing it were the engineers. And turns out engineers can't really write great documentation. So how did we overcome these problems and challenges? Frankly, I reached out to every single validator I could and asked them all the questions that I needed the answers to. Some of them responded, some of them didn't.
And that's how I got here today. The one thing I can tell you is it is very difficult to do it alone right now. And that is a huge barrier to entering the crypto as well as validating. The tip for someone that is trying to start a validator is find someone that you know well and
ask them a whole lot of questions. I would also say go to discord like Juno and the ethereum discord, even cosmos hub and
you can ask validators there. Some of them will reciprocate for you others won't. But like kind of on the whole is, hey, this is a huge problem.
If we don't solve it, our node operators are going to become more and more technical and we're not going to be able to say power to the people. It's going to be power to be very, very educated. And that's a little backwards. Go ahead, Aaron. Yeah, I was also going to add on to that, Bobby.
I know I've seen some of the pictures and the late night text from you again all that set up and I I totally agree that the various entry to running full nose and block builders are too high and too technical. What some of the members here at Oregon watching do as an exercise is set up a
And it's not a full mode, but it still contributes to the network in a meaningful way. And it's a lot easier to do that because the documentation for a Geith like client is fairly straightforward and doesn't
take too long, especially with our mentorship. And then ultimately, who knows how long this will take, but the end goal of watching like Ethereum and now, I'm sure all kind of other dead teams are looking forward in this capacity to have phones and laptops.
And all sorts of devices be able to run full nodes. And again, the computation needed to do that right now is a lot, but who knows, 10 years in the future, 15, perhaps that's on the table. And they'll all be kind of abstracted away in the background. But yeah, just wanted to lay that out.
Yeah, I think the optimistic viewpoint is definitely that. I would I would cite on that. History tells us that these processes will become more efficient and easier to use as we continue to develop the technology. And I would say there's no reason we can't do that today. It's just
where we're starting out is a very challenging place to be for newcomers. So the question is, is as it becomes easier to run a validator hypothetically speaking, either on your phone or on your computer, will the financial incentives still be there?
That's a phenomenal question. As we distribute networks more and more and the access to
Run these nodes becomes less. Will I receive
greater compensation. The answer would be it depends on the amount delegated in a proof of stake network. The more validators doesn't contribute to the greater decentralization of a protocol. That might be a hot take. The reason I say that is because the
The underlying decentralization of a proof of stake network is based off of the skew of delegations from, let's just, for instance, say there's 100 active validators in a set and the top 10 validators hold 33% of the power.
a Byzantine fault network, that means they could stop the network at any time. So your question as to what happens when we distribute these nodes and make it more accessible, really depends on who's delegating to what. Now,
If I'm delegating to someone in the future and we envision this world where validators will run on their phones or laptops, I want to delegate to someone that is technically proficient and contributes to the protocol that
I am actively investing in it too. That's how I do it today. And I don't think I don't see that changing. And I only delegate to the top six
because I feel like they're the most proficient. If we assume that's the case in the future that these top 60 will hold the most power, it doesn't really matter what the bottom quartile of
number of node operators there are if they don't hold the network power. If that makes sense, go ahead, Aaron. Yeah, I think that's a really good discussion, Bobby, about the breakdown of delegation in kind of like as we're seeing there's a bit of a parade of principles.
I would also say in terms of the economic incentives of running an outgoing in the future as blockchain usability scales as you know these banks are talking about putting their bonds and other financial instruments on chain on Ethereum.
transactions per second, but demanded are are going to go up and with that will come fees and hopefully with dank charting and some other upgrades that the fees won't be as expensive but if the like price of the fee
goes down, but the amount of people transacting goes up more than that, which I believe it will in the long term, then it'll be more economically incentive, like it'll be more attractive to run a node under under this condition. So I think also just looking at
how quickly in under what circumstances blockchain will just have more user influx is another component to consider. But no, I will say that like it's somewhat hypocritical and need to say that we need to
make these networks be able to run on more devices and have greater, have less barrier of entry and then say that, hey, our networks aren't going to be more decentralized when we have more nodes.
operators. So I do understand the hypocrisy in that statement. And I don't have an answer for that to be honest, but I'll just put that out there for any people who have an idea to answer it.
Yeah, I don't have an answer either. It was just something popped in my head as I heard you say, you know, there will be a time, hopefully, just based on the way that we've seen technology evolve, where nodes will run on computers and telephones and small devices.
Even networks like me and a protocol, I'm not trying to show me in a here. I'm just using them as an example because the whole idea behind me and I is to have this 32 kilobytes blockchain size where you could validate transactions on small smartphones and it really
really helps to create a more maximally decentralized network. As decentralized as you can possibly get if you're able to run a node or rather run a node on a device as small as even a flip phone. But anyway, I'm just speculating here and I don't
know what the long-term goal for them is there and we're also going a little bit off of topics. So, gonna bring it back. Aaron, I think you were the one that said the goal of your club is to prepare members to be able to go out into the traditional workforce and have a strong background in crypto that you guys focus on the business component. You want to make sure you're
members have competency in entrepreneurship and hopefully have that competency, competency, I'm not, oh god, sorry guys, I've been hosting a lot of space this week and I'm having a bit of a difficult time talking but hopefully have that translate into Web 3 infrastructure and being able
to build businesses in this industry. So what are some of the things that you guys do? What are some of the tools that you equip members with? Some of the courses that you guys have taught and some of the programs or potentially folks that you bring in to help
bridge that gap business in web 3 and set them up for a bright future in the industry. Yeah, I'll kick us off with that and then I'll have Bobby Shirkas thoughts too. To clarify, our focus for the short and even medium term is to definitely
be that business competent club, but we do want to cater to our computer science majors and we're going to be out at UPEN next week for their hackathon. We're going to be participating in that with some of our more dev oriented members and we do want to grow that aspect of our club, but we recognize that we need to at least in the short medium
term have a competency. But it does not say we don't want our members to be as technical as they are able to be. In terms of how we equip our members currently for the workforce to get jobs, we've had members go to the likes of protocols like lip protocol, all the way to venture capital for
to Wall Street, to DA Davidson, to all sorts of things that tie back to crypto in one way or another. These deliverables that I mentioned earlier is one of the primary means by which we equip our members because it's not only approved of your education and proof of participation, but it truly does teach you by struggling
going through it. It's not only proof in and of itself, but it's a course like creating the deliverable is a course in and of itself. So that paired with our weekly Tuesday meetings in which we bring guest speakers from all around the ecosystem. Sometimes it's
We had Axel Art speaking with us a week or two ago. We had a venture capital firm talking with us like even behind that. Next week or two weeks after that we have near protocol speaking with us and then we'll have Andreessen Horowitz speaking with us later in the term. We get different perspectives on what the industry needs, what the industry is.
It's like where it's at, where it's going. So we can kind of orient our mission every week by hearing what they have to say and asking them questions. We even had an IRS agent come and talk to us who is scripted, oh, friendly, and then he runs a couple of validators on his own. So that's so our guest speakers are deliverables are
on Thursdays, we run a social hour. It's called block talk. That's a place where we talk about the headlines, anything from what's going on with the EF Core Dev Descension about the Shanghai fork or the Shanghai upgrade. All the way through. >> We might have lost Aaron, or maybe I'm lagging out and I'm not sure which one. >> I still hear him. >> Okay.
I was mentioning how our members are able to participate in our Thursday block talks where we talk about all sorts of things in the crypto ecosystem. So that's another way to just stay engaged and to be educated on a very service level. And then our education course for our new members and existing members.
and our community does a more thorough job of introducing different topics, providing resources for them to go in and dig in on their own. And then lastly, I would say one of our kind of like fourth ways that we provide education and value to our members is by paying for
four courses that they need. We had a group of six members during the fall turn that wanted to participate in a particular crypto in Web 3 coding and networking education course. And so we funded that for them. And they went through it. They gave us a presentation on what they learned.
And overall it was a really good experience to have done. And we also go to conferences so we will learn on the spot, we'll network and the last spring we went to permissionless in Miami. This year we're sending 20 people out to Austin for consensus 23 and we're likely also going to attend ETH Portland just in our backyard.
Yeah, the sum total of what Aaron's all talking about here is the word communication. That's the one advantage we provide everyone. A place to talk about these things that are incredibly complex and
nuanced in one space at one time with a bunch of great minds. And that's the reason why I'm in the club because I can exchange those ideas with people that know more than me or know less than me.
have a fun conversation or debate about why KYC should or shouldn't exist. So like how we really prepare people is just communicating and allowing a place, an open environment for these ideas to be shared.
So going to Aaron first you said that you're your finance major with an econ miner Aaron am I correct and That's correct. Yes. Okay, and What you said without giving away your secret sauce because you said you had several startup ideas what kind of work do you want to do in the
and composability, but I think that the first step will be having the incumbent companies like Starbucks, like Wall Street, and the centralized firms that can for the most part be trusted, I think, and having them offer their services
And I think that gives power back to the people when they own an NFT produced by a centralized company that's still composable.
ideally, you know, in the future with with different products. So I really like that idea and I want to work in the capacity that bridges real world assets, real world services with blockchain to offer that true ownership that's manifested by composability.
Sorry, I'm losing my train of thought here guys so bear with me Bobby you are a master's in finance and computer science Yeah, that's where's that finance. Excuse me. That's doesn't quite mean anything to be to science.
What are your aspirations going into the workforce? I have so many. Let me tell you. Let me walk you through my mind. The first thing is like kind of why am I here and that answer comes down to I think
Blockchain is a great way to bring people together, period full stop. So what do I want to do after university and how does my bachelor's in finance and minor and computer science apply? Well, you know, these are, these are businesses in my mind and they function
business like government structures, but they also have a computer science method at its core. And so hopefully I can understand the business side and the computer science side to both of those things. But where I see myself going in the future is working in the guts of these systems.
and trying to be grassroots and provide value in that way. In 10 years what I'd like to be doing is applying blockchain systems to government structures and to legacy structures of Canada or United States or so on. I think there's a way to implement our
republic in the United States over a blockchain and do it in a secure way. And ultimately that's where the end goal is for me. But for the future right after I get out of the university, I'll probably end up heading into the Cosmos ecosystem because I believe they have the
right sauce. They got the secret sauce over there and they got a handful of intelligent people working on collective action problems with blockchain and consensus mechanisms, difficulties and a bunch of other stuff. So, to answer your question.
I'd hope to be working for a D5 primitives like Ebmos or Juno, something that enables developers to build financial systems for people in the future.
Guys, what's the general sentiment around this stuff at the Greater University of Oregon? Amongst the Greater University of Oregon student base, obviously being in a blockchain club and being around individuals who are passionate about this stuff, the way you two are, makes it easy to get stuck in a Neco Chamber and
and feel like this is going to be a paradigm-shifting technology, which I genuinely believe it already is, and it will continue to disrupt industries. But what's the general sentiment amongst your friends that aren't in the club that aren't so involved with the space about this stuff, especially in a bear market as cold as this one, or at least where it seems to be
But with all the FTX nonsense and all the bad publicity that we've been seeing over the last six to nine months. Yeah, that's a good question. I'll speak about my experiences in the school business and Bobby you will have a good perspective about the computer science department also. But in yeah, in terms of
the business students here typically when they hear blockchain or that I'm a part of the club or Bitcoin and like that the first thing they say is like oh air and our NFTs going up or like you know I'm invested in some NFTs or stuff like that and I you know I hear them and I like the enthusiasm but I kind of cringe my mullers a bit because
That's not really the end game of crypto. Monkey Pictures does not represent what we're doing here. The question our NFTs going up or down is to me, that's not the right perspective. It's not their fault. They really are able to see
from the media, I suppose, but NFTs are better described as a file format. That's a way that Professor Steve McKean likes to put in, I've kind of adopted that mindset too. So it's like, our PDF's going up or down. That doesn't quite make sense. And to me, it's the same logic with our NFTs going up or down.
The other thing I'll say about the attitude here is that it is open. Further from the most part, people are interested in the tech and they don't completely write it out on hearing it. I was recently promoting our club in my management 335 class, just saying that our applications were open and
describing what we do. And at the end of class, one of my classmates asked me, "Hey, because in class we were talking about entrepreneurship solving unmet needs and he asked me, "Aren, how is Bitcoin not an unmet need? And why? What's the importance of something
that doesn't have a current need. And I think that is something we need to address with the student body here is that it's an untested technology at scale. And so largely, there isn't a direct need in the current and common sense.
systems that most people will realize and explaining to them the potential of the technology, I think reveals the potential need. But it's not like I can't buy a certain product, so someone just needs to physically manufacture the product. It's not that
a directive in Unmet need, it's much more nuanced and political and cultural in societal than it is physical in nature. So I would say those two are examples of the attitude here on campus, what's your take in business and maybe computer science?
Yeah, I'd say the level of interest depends on your level of curiosity and it was just a human being those people that are naturally more curious will be able to forgo their predispositions on crypto in order to learn about the possibility
it is not what they think it is. And what I found is you have to propose this to different people in different ways. I give around 11 to 13 speeches to classes to recruit for and watching group. And the one issue
you I found across all those classes is they didn't understand how it applied to them. And they wanted to. It wasn't the lack of desire, you know, but it was the lack of explanation ever being given to them. So when I came to them to do that, that's what I tried to do.
I would say for the most part people are open to the subject of understanding the difference between cryptocurrency or digital assets and blockchain. It just has to be proposed in the right way. Now for getting a little more secular in regards to business at our university,
It is for OBA majors, a more prominent thing in their mind because blockchain solves logistical problems, for instance.
Walmart and Canada implemented over this last year a blockchain into their system. And why did they do that? Well, there was around 70 different logistics sourcing companies they needed. And 70% of their invoices to these companies would get kicked back and disagreed with.
But once they implemented a blockchain, it diminished to 0.1%. And this is an example I tried to use when talking to business, when talking to OBA majors, OBA's operational business analytics, and it seemed to work. What I find most interesting
is the types of professors that are open to hearing about blockchain. You'd be surprised to hear that business professors are more open than computer science professors. Computer science students are
don't understand how blockchain is different from a distributed database. And so that's kind of the thing I tried to get to them when I presented to one of their classes. So overall, what is the sentiment around blockchain? I'd say it's confused.
And that's in part to do to the lack of teaching at universities. And that's why one of OVG's goal is to educate and uphold the values that we see fit for blockchain.
It seems a bit counterintuitive, at least for me. When you tell me that computer science majors are having a more difficult time understanding or rather being open to learning, then, sorry, computer science professors are having a more difficult time than business professors.
I wonder why that is. Yeah, I think it's for this reason. They hear the word crypto and they think all these negative thoughts that come along with that word. So I try to use the word digital assets now.
they think of the word blockchain and the idea that comes to them is distributed database. I don't know if, okay, let me get really granular because the question we're asking needs that. There are professors, there's around eight professors in our Python and
see classes and of those five were open to the idea and three were not and then allow me to speak which is okay. I didn't expect everyone to respond. Now I would say that's a net positive
and that good thing. And of the people that were open to it, they set, they came into the mindset with, hey, this blockchain guy has something that could tell, that could bring me some value. And versus those other three,
where something along lines of "I already know what it is" and I'm not curious. So back to what I was saying at the beginning of this conversation, it just falls on the individual's innate curiosity. But it's definitely an interesting question that I don't know if I can entirely answer.
Does the University of Oregon have any courses on watching?
Um, so either there are courses that I'm aware of that are related to crypto and web 3 and blockchain. Actually, this professor Steven McKeehan, I've mentioned a couple of times. He's currently on me from the university, but focusing on his VC firm.
Last year he taught a master's course that was called Alternative Investments in the course spent two weeks on venture capital one week on real estate in seven weeks on crypto and anything related to that and so that was a more top-down approach to what blockchain is and
There is a classroom in the Honors College without a aware of that discussed Bitcoin and some of the fundamentals of that. I haven't taken that course because I did sit on the Master's course, but I have not taken this other course in the Honors College, so I don't know the extent
To which they they really discuss watching fundamentals and Bobby are you aware of any courses in the computer science department that talk about Like really that the hash functions and everything like that. Yeah, I mean there's that there's cryptography programs here at University of Oregon
And I'm sure that I mean I haven't taken those so I can't comment on that but I'm sure in some form it's related back to blockchain. There are there is a course called distributed mechanisms for consensus. I think that's the closest we get to it right now. There's another course for
OBA, operational business analytics, that's among the same names, like Distributed Management, and they talk about how database systems are operated in a Distributed environment. So I'd say that's the two closest things we get to it right now, but no blockchain course yet.
Baby steps though, when I went to school, none of this existed. None of this infrastructure existed. There are only blockchain clubs or even blockchain courses or even pseudo blockchain or crypto courses. And I guess the most you would hear about this stuff
this one mining Bitcoin in their dorm room. And I think that's a big reason why so many more Gen Zs from mining total experience seemed to get this stuff. I envy you guys for being born a bit later than me because I would have really loved
I think I would have really loved being in college. I wasn't too crazy about university. I just kind of did it because I'm supposed to. I think I would have really loved being in college when this stuff is around. It's really exciting. Guys, the final portion of the space I like to do is the fun Q&A and it's pure speculation.
these aren't serious questions. There's more so. Just me picking your brains. You're obviously both very intelligent and you both know a lot about Web 3 and there's a lot that we could learn from you. So which we already have during the course of this broadcast. But I just like to go to the basics. Bitcoin, what do you guys
Do you guys think about Bitcoin? Do you see it as the dominant crypto asset going into the distant future? And if not, do you ever see it being flipped? And if so, by which asset? I'll give a quick take. I think Bitcoin is a good proof of concept.
And I think it will be interesting to see if we can ascribe a more smart contract security to Bitcoin's network because it's it's currently is the I would argue the most decentralized and kind of all the stacks in terms of like geography the block builders that
It kind of resources poured into it all the way through that supply chain I believe is the most decentralized out of out of any current blockchain. So I think if we get a scribe security guarantees from the Bitcoin blockchain that is a potential use case with would be bullish for it. I think
It's not designed for effective transactions, but I think as a store value, it is certainly worth looking into. Again, because of its kind of dominance in the decentralization, whereas Ethereum's Swiss-to-Proof-of-Stake has been coupled with
It's just a third of blocks right now are not OFAC compliant, which I'm not here arguing for their OFAC sanctions against tornado cash is a good or bad thing. Just the reality of the situation is that it's like half to two thirds of all blocks on
Ethereum are compliant with those sanctions and take that for what you will. So I think there is a flippening in the future with Ethereum. I think Ethereum has some of the smartest core developers that are the most aspirational and have
of the community support behind them, at least for the short term. So I'm really bullish on Ethereum in terms of its utility and its development. I think they have a really aspirational roadmap with all their urges. But I'm by no means bearish on on Bitcoin.
I don't know if I'm taking a middle ground here. The one word that comes into my mind when I think of Bitcoin is actually two words is credible neutral.
And what this means is that it is neutral in all decisions and that is actually a huge competitive advantage in my mind and I'll explain why in a sec. I think the other
benefit to Bitcoin is its liveliness. It's never gone down. I don't think it will ever go down. I think the incentive structures are great. And actually, I would probably be a Bitcoin Maxi if I wasn't a Cosmos Maxi. Commenting on one thing that Aaron
that was very interesting is if we could port the security of a proof of state networks or even other proof of work networks, there's actually a project from Stanford called Babylon Chain and what they do is they are basically time-stemming
for proof of state change that submits time stamps to Bitcoin. What does this mean? It just basically means that they're porting over some version of security from the Bitcoin network to proof of state change. This actually increases something called a subjectivity
guarantee which basically means the note I'm syncing up to in network is syncing up to the right chain. Okay, let me pause and go back to the question because I've gone off track now. Do I think that Bitcoin will be flipped by something? I don't think
Another chain will provide the liveliness guarantees as well as the security guarantees
and distributed nature of Bitcoin in a proof of state network. And that's my personal opinion. And so
In regards to that, I don't think there will be another proof of work network that will ever flip Bitcoin. I do see that there's a possibility that a proof of stake network will flip Bitcoin. And the only reason that is for is because
The companies that make the most money supply the most utility for consumers on a broad level. Do I see Ethereum or Bitcoin providing more users?
If Bitcoin's utility is that it's a great money, then sure. But I think it can definitely be argued that Bitcoin is not great money. It doesn't have a high enough velocity, which basically means it doesn't, it's not as
money isn't traveling over it fast enough. So I don't think it's a great money. I think it is a great store of value, like Aaron said. In regards to the utility aspect, I think someone or a chain can outpace Bitcoin's utility. There's no innovation.
And there probably won't be innovation, but I think that's what gives it value as well. So it's kind of a weird paradox. The answer to your question is yes. I think something will flip it. I actually don't think ETH will flip it.
something that is yet to be thought of that will. Definitely fresh take I haven't heard I haven't heard one quite like that before Bobby. Okay so then next up guys what are your thoughts on Ethan I'm talking
in like, ETH was sharding, where the main chain is used, security chain, it's a layer of proofs, and then all transactions are happening on highly scalable roll-ups. What are your thoughts on the future of ETH?
Yeah, I kind of mentioned already one of my reservations about ETH is just that it is proof of state, which is great. If you actually look into the amount of energy it saves, it's arguable whether it actually is 99% or something.
more like 10%, but I think that it's decentralization needs to come first. I think staking like Bobby was talking about the concentration of delegates, a mass is delegated to
I think both in terms of delegation decentralization and geography decentralization, I think if certain companies operate all their validators in the same physical locations, that's a lot of the same.
I definitely had a single point of failure. So in terms of the roadmap, I think it's a very robust roadmap with tons of aspirations, ending with the splurge now, or I just updated it again.
I think Dengsharding is going to be one of the biggest milestones for Ethereum, if not the biggest, in terms of the, you know, obviously scalability, but just overall, I think that will finally allow fees to be adjusted to wear every day consuming.
or you won't have to pay half a dollar or $2 just to buy a cup of coffee from your retailer. And the assumption with that is that if yourium is going to be money, I am undecided whether if yourium is going to be money or not, or we're just going to use it as a rate
to take on that. I think decentralization absolutely needs to come before we onboard the next billion people. Yeah, the question comes down to in my mind, multi-chain versus interchange, and let's break those two down.
Multi-chain is a synchronous environment and what that means is that all transactions are processed in a single block. If I submit one on a chain, if I submit two transactions on two different DApps, they will be at the same time, they will be in the same block on Ethereum Network finalized.
First, versus asynchronous networks, if I have two blockchains, not the applications, two blockchains, and submit an application on one, and another, they will finalize at two different times. Okay, there's inherent network advantages to asynchronous and synchronous communication.
with Ethereum, it will be, let's assume, charting happens and let's assume they get passed all these technical difficulties. And Joe, one of the members in our blockchain group, we have violent disagreements.
So I will say that I am often wrong. But with Ethereum, it is multi-chain network and when we get into a sharded network,
Transactions will be finalized synchronously. And what is this like in my mind? Well, it likeens to supercomputers in the 1980s that we were trying to develop. And IBM was trying to create the best supercomputer in the world. But it didn't really happen. And the reason it didn't really happen is because
Synchronous transactions on a network trying to get everything fit into one form essentially is very difficult and very cost effective hence why sharding exists. And what happens when you shard is you still have the synchronous network but you
have it partitioned across multiple different areas, so to say. So in some ways it's more efficient than a synchronous network, but underlying is synchronous. Okay, now let's head to the interchange. Well, as the interchange, it's a bunch of singular blockchains connected
through a message platform. We can liken this back to the internet in the 1990s with TCP, which is a protocol that allowed for message passing against through hosts, hostes like your iPhone, computer, and so on. And why is this important?
In an asynchronous network, it scales horizontally. And what we found is that instead of building a skyscraper that goes all the way to the moon, it's much more efficient to build a few skyscrapers. Maybe a hotel, maybe a house or two, and lines to connect those all together.
So what will happen to a theorem in the future? Well, this is certainly a hot opinion. I think it will lose to networks that provide asynchronous environments. And what is a network that does that right now, IBC? And IBC is inter-black chain communication protocol. That's the Cosmos ecosystem.
So what do I see happening in the future? A theory will probably come across these solutions and will end up in a issue of state blow. And the reason it will end up in an issue of state blow, that just means that there is too much state on the chain and it's too hard to run a valid
data from Genesis is because it's in a synchronous network and it can't partition that data. But like let me take you out of the technical stuff for a moment and come back to the overarching question of where do I see Ethereum going in the next couple of years? Well I see it accomplishing all of its objectives. I don't think there's a reason
and why it shouldn't, but it will be out competed by asynchronous networks. I have no doubt about that in the same way I have no doubt that the TCP out competed, that's the internet protocol out competed IBM's supercomputer in the 1980s. So I'm an IBC magazine for everyone who knows and now you know the answer to that.
Yeah, and with that said, first of all, I really appreciate the thorough answer Bobby and Aaron and I want to direct this next one at Bobby and then go to Aaron because Bobby is a Cosmos Maxi and we have had Cosmos on twice at this point between Sam, Chango and Bez. We've learned a lot about Cosmos.
We've learned a lot about tenderment and their SDK, we've learned a lot about IVC and the different ways that cosmos is just innovating differently or innovating in general. So what makes you so bullish or rather let me rephrase the question, you've explained some reasons why you're so bullish on cosmos.
But what makes you what else rather give us more into what makes you so bullish about cosmos and Adam Okay, so the two questions there is what makes me more bullish about Adam and then Cosmos as a whole the reason I use the word interchange is because I find that people often get confused with cosmos and the
So I'll use interchangeably with the Cosmos ecosystem. And then Adam, I'll answer first and we can go down that rabbit hole. So Adam, why do I think Adam will do well? And what's the reason that I come to that conclusion? Well, Adam's right now. Adam right now is working on something called interchange security.
in many ways the same thing that Ethereum is working on in their network except it's over a environment that allows for like we said multiple different houses. Okay, so let's use that analogy. Let's stick with that. Let's say I have like a kingdom, right? And my kingdom is the most secure of all this whole entire
But there's also houses on the outskirts of my kingdom. Well, I can say, hey, I'm going to provide you some security at some cost, right? It's kind of like feudal systems and those houses will say yes or no, and let's just assume they all say yes. And their agreement for
For leasing security from you is that they'll give you a bunch of goods, right? Okay, now let's apply this to Adam and blockchain right now and the coming weeks and the coming two weeks actually a proposal will be on the Cosmos hub for Adam Adam is the native asset and it will be
updating the Cosmos hub for interchange security and interchange securities does exactly what my analogy just said there it provides it provides
network security to blockchains that desire. It's a choice. And why join the security of the Cosmos hub? Well, it's the highest
It had, it one has never gone down. It's the only proof of state network that hasn't gone down. It was the first proof of state network. It also has the highest market cap of any chain within the interchain, which provides more security to consumer chains.
and consumer chains are like the houses that we talked about in our analogy. So the answer to why I think Adam will do well is that B2B service there. There's also much more there that we can talk about. There's something called the interchange scheduler, but it's a little technical for a conversation today. So I'll stay away from it. If you want to do more research
go ahead. The next question on why the broader inner chain, why am I so bullish on that? And versus the methods of methods of theorem are trying to implement or even Salana. It comes down to
how we communicate as a society really. Right? We're not all in one building. Let's think about this just from a really simple logic basis. If we were all in one building, you know, it's kind of absurd to think about how tall that was, or that would have to be.
What we really do on like even at University of Oregon is we actually partition these buildings across vast amount of land, right? And we allow for the inter-travel between each building and the knowledge to be passed. And so why do I think the inter-chain will succeed and
ultimately hopefully overpass Ethereum and hopefully actually Ethereum will join the Interchain is innately because of that structure. It's so distributed and so permissionless that anyone can join at any time. You can spin up a blockchain with
with Cosmos SDK, that's a huge advantage in 15 minutes, not a normal person, don't get me wrong, not someone that isn't technical. But a technical person can do that in 15 minutes. Usually it takes, I don't know, six, maybe a year to code a chain from Genesis, but you can do that on
in 15 minutes and it will span the entirety of the world. You can create a governance structure that allows validators to function within your rules and it will span the entirety of the world. You can't do that with Ethereum right now.
because it doesn't have the CosmocestK. And the CosmocestK is the inherent advantage of the interchange.
The barrier to entry to build these chains has never been lower than it is today. And that's happening in the Cosmos eager system.
Those are a couple of reasons why I believe that the interchain will outcompete the likes of Ethereum or Solana.
Aaron, do you share Bobby's optimism? I am not as much of a cause of osmaxy as Bobby though I am a full believer in the attributes it provides. His arguments about the cause of osma SDK make a lot of sense. I think the inherent assumption with that is
these different developers are going to need their independent blockchains to begin with. And I am, I think there will be some cases in which that's necessary. But I think that if you have a secure blockchain and if the fees are low enough, really what you need is just
Security, I don't think you need to develop your own blockchain for every different use case and I think that from that perspective at the Aureian Wins, especially if we can get this decentralization concept under control, I would be that's my bulk case for Aureian
And that's why Danksharding and the road map is so encouraging is because it does lower the fees. It does bring up the scalability and it does lower the entry for validator nodes, especially once the purge happens that the barrier to entry to run the source of nodes are going to be a lot different.
I think it'll be perfect for either Lair 2 for your DAF or using a Diff during a main chain if you want. There's speculation as to how that will really fly out. But I don't know if what Cosmos offers is going to be a one size fits all answer.
Okay, so next up I want to ask you as about NFTs, but specifically which industries do you see NF3? Which industries do you see NFTs?
disrupting the most over the next three to five years. Not gaming, not music, not art. We've already seen this, but what's going to come as a surprise?
I think legal contracts and real world assets like real estate and I think that the tokenization of assets is a really interesting concept and with fungible stuff like securities or bonds that's one thing but a lot of the contracts we interact with
And this is a perspective that I've been leading from, I, this professor to Steve McKeon, so I can't really take credit for this, but I agree with it that most of the contracts we interact with every day, a lot of our ownership of things are non-fundable.
And I think it will oftentimes be more efficient to interact with those things like a car payment or a car ownership like a thingslet or like I said a mortgage to interact with those as NFTs and to store their
their history, their immutability where they've been, their authenticity through blockchains. I think that's going to be one of the next use cases. There's a lot of legal red tape that's going to have to be sorted out, but I'm really bullish on that.
Yeah, my two cents is kind of similar to errands, and I'm also taking this from Professor Stephen McKee in book. Contract laws can be hugely impacted by NFTs. It's like intense in my mind how big NFTs can change
And the reason is, today, contract law can be interpreted in a lot of different ways by different companies. But when you run something on chain, it can only be interpreted in one way by multiple distributed nodes. And you could call those companies.
really amazing. If we think about how much process efficiency will gain from the NFT medium being implemented into contract law over our economy as a
whole, it could be like a game changer for some of the some of the some businesses that only work in contract law like Walmart like we were talking later before on and it could decrease costs in a lot of different ways. So there's plenty of ways for legacy
systems and companies to utilize NFTs. In the biggest way, I think I agree with Aaron is contract law.
It's exciting and I think that we're gonna see a lot of these changes come sooner than people think. What's my last question for you guys? Bobby kind of already answered this with his favorite alt cosmos as I'll alt layer one
on their rather alt. Yeah, let's just call it that. But what other alt coins are rather alt ecosystems, Bobby? Are you currently speculating on? Great question. I mean, Cosmos is obviously my number one. And I'm
for the community that I am in for the actual profit. But my next would be a CAUSH. You know, something that's super interesting is that the COO of a CAUSH actually graduated from University of Oregon and his name is Boss and he's great. And so what a CAUSH is is actually a distributed
cloud compute company. Distributed infrastructure companies are going to be huge at least in my eyes in the next 10 years. And I'm not telling anyone to buy anything, but that is what I am buying right now.
I actually stay away from EVMs because there's so many and I don't think I can choose the right one right now. And I focus on companies that I believe have a strong use case and application to the broader crypto environment as well as
broader population in the next 10 years. A cautious definitely one of those. Another one that will be coming out at the end of this year is the ASEAN network. ASEAN network is a distributed internet company that I'm definitely interested in. All of these are speculative. Of course, the last one I would say.
Those two have two commonalities that their infrastructure. Last one I would say is Somalia Finance. It's a D5 primitive for the Cosmos ecosystem, but it also communicates with the Ethereum network through Gravity Bridge.
And what that provides is a service for people to implement trading strategies on and kind of does the work for you. So it's one of the first D5 platforms I've tried and actually enjoyed using.
Yeah, I think those are all really good thoughts personally. I think as far as like altcoins, alt projects. I Last year I did a really deep dive into API 3 did a presentation for the group actually on it read their white paper several times communicated with their devs and kind of did the
As much of an in-depth research as I've done on really anything and I can't realize that I'm a big fan what they do is they provide decentralized Oracle services for various blockchains primarily Ethereum right now, but they do provide their services on other platforms. They're token the AQF3 token is
Currently, ERC 20, I believe I don't think they've upgraded to any L2s as of late, like some like Kiber has or anything like that. And I think it solves a lot of nuance problems that chain link and band and some of these Oracle, like alternative Oracle projects.
have in that they can be cybled and there's no real authenticity check to where or who is hosting the original Oracle. If I want price data or if I want real like what the NFL score was, do I know that Fox News is providing that data on chain or
And there's already been mismatches of price data for like gold and stuff like that and it's resulted in losses. So the tokenomics to API 3 though I know they have been changing slightly are really interesting and at least when I read the right paper that had slight rolling incentive programs to where the signal words you would receive were
a year out, so you would always be acting in a rolling basis to one year out in terms of your governance. And I thought that was an interesting way of aligning long-term incentives with your traditional Dow governance. I think
I'm on board with Bobby anything infrastructure graph a cache anything that provides infrastructure at this point is going to be really important. And that that's obviously why I think Oracle providers, I can have talked about bridging real world assets. I think real world data is also going to be really important.
And that's really my biggest focus at this point. Well look, Aaron Bobby, it's been a pleasure having you guys on. It's so impressive to see guys so young that are already so far ahead of most of the people that at least I interact with.
on a daily basis in this space. I can speak for the whale coin talk team as well. We talk to hundreds of people a week and you guys really stand out and are ahead of the curve when it comes to this stuff. So anytime you want to come back and talk about updates that's happening with Oregon Blockchain Group or
Any kind of events that you guys want us to want us to know about that you want to come tell our community about you're more than welcome It's been a pleasure having you on and if there are any final words you want to leave us with before you head out today go ahead and do so now Yeah, no thanks again for having us on I had a great time chatting with with
with you all at WhaleCoin and if anyone in the audience is going to be at consensus 23, 20 of us are going to be out there from organ blockchain groups. So we'd love to meet up and hear about what you're doing. If you'd like to reach out to our club, if you want to speak, if you're working on anything, we'd love to hear about what you're doing. So our website or our
Twitter are our good ways to get in contact with us. Noah, thanks again then. Yeah, Noah, thank you so much. Really great questions. I appreciate them. Made me think a little bit. And with that said, you know, I hope everyone brings some value from Aaron and I speaking today. This is just a small glimpse of what OBG can do.
We're looking forward to growing in the future and continuing the conversation with Wales, O'Elcoin. Beautiful. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for coming on. O'Elcoin, talk to our community. Thank you so much for listening. Remember that everything you hear on these broadcasts is meant for educational purposes. Only nothing is financial advice. So be safe out there. My name is Noah signing out. Take care.