Okay, wait, something's up with my audio. Let me adjust it.
Give it a few minutes while everyone joins.
Hey, can you guys hear me good?
Yeah, can you hear me? Yep, yeah, but much better.
I'm using blue stacks if anybody hasn't used it. It's a you can virtualize Android and load Twitter on it and then use your desktop microphone instead of having to use Twitter spaces on your
mobile device. It's a little bit like a robot right now. There's a bit of synthesizing.
My body is still synthesizing alcohol.
from the wedding I went to last night. So that could be it.
Hello everybody, we'll give it a few moments.
All right, see if you people joining. Welcome to FM, madman, got Terra Space and Sea of Recording.
Is this better, Clint? Can you hear me now?
Yeah, yeah, okay, here you go.
It's just very basic, I don't know if that's your mark or something, but yeah, we can hear you clearly. It's just a manly voice. That's actually my voice state. It's about an octave lower.
Alright, what do you guys think about getting started?
All right, welcome everybody. We wanted to have a discussion around communities and collaborations, specifically talking about, you know, how do you bring people into a community obviously for folks on, you know, why foundry-dow and how to really transition
this project that we've been, you know, or contributed to for so long, starting to bring in a lot more various other people with different talents, different skills. I definitely have some near-term goals there, but I think just a larger discussion about group bullying people.
and make them a part of a truly functioning Dow something that's decentralized, something that you bring in a lot of diverse talent. How do you incentivize that for long-term growth of really building something unique and special?
It goes beyond what we're doing in particular. Obviously we'll talk about that from that sort of through that lens and from that perspective. But, you know, there's so many great projects that are building Dallas for different purposes. We may, you know, delve into some discussion. Happy to talk about that.
And honestly, anyone who joins would love to hear your perspective and insights, so feel free to request to be a speaker and we'll bring you up. And just have an open discussion about how to incentivize communities to align to the mission of a particular DAO and
really make things happen, you know, transition from, you know, the kind of like disorganized chaos into maybe a little bit of, you know, it's decentralized, so it's still going to be some chaos, but how you make it organized chaos to actually achieve some goals.
I like I like that he used to turn organized chaos crash. I think it kind of speaks to the whole Organicness of the space where it's kind of like working in a douse definitely not really a structured process at the start. And it's a lot of entropy and then just kind of like people working their way towards figuring out what
how what they do fits in in the bigger scope because that's not really like one person usually telling you what to do in a doubt it's more of like you trying to come up a bunch of meetings and then you volunteer you see a weird way you can contribute so I think yeah it's controlled chaos or like entropy is kind of exactly
be the word I would use. Yeah, we've talked a lot about meritocracy and how to achieve a pure form of meritocracy where you're actually just, you come in, you join this thing and you have value that you know you can contribute.
you're free to propose here's something I want to do. You don't kind of like, here's where I want to add value to this system and how you get champions within the community to, oh that's a great idea, let's do that. I mean that's essentially
I think how YFD started, you know? I mean, I don't know if we want to start there with your story, "Clean and Ray" about that kind of genesis and how that eventually formed into a little larger project and let's bring some more people in.
Well, yeah, sure. Well, we can talk about, I think, was, I think in the first ever version of what WIFON3 eventually became into, was basically called Solidities Study Group. This was way back in, I think, May or April of 2021.
me and Ray were still like internet friends and didn't really know each other that well but we were both mods in the community and we had a few regulars basically started a discord group chat group where we just like talk about kind of like tips on how to study coding so we did things like that share research
sources and it was kind of this this co-web tree study group. I think eventually the topic stibers to you know more of like communities and strategies and definitely I think eventually came to came about the ideas of what happens with what happened to become why foundry
Ray, you want to add something? Yeah, he started there and it grew into us kind of going into our own separate directions and then clean working to build
up a DeFi desk and another community. And then out of DeFi desk, essentially growing into like a more, how would you say, a more structured or a more focused
part of the organization where they were talking technical and they had more interest and more desires to do strategy related work. So I think the entire process has been fairly organic in terms of organizing like-minded people and then real
realizing that, you know, if there's some level of organization to the people who have shared interests, that there can be a greater level of productivity in terms of getting deeper into the interests they have in the
goals that they have. And that's really the intention of wifeoundry and what the dial here is trying to do. I'm trying to be, listen to my attorney and my brain, he's rattling on about how I should form these sentences. So essentially,
Like how can a Dow provide a greater efficiency to help people get through the parts of the process that are required to collaborate together and produce a higher quality result in the area
of interest of the participants if that connects with anybody. So essentially, like how we look at why foundry's specific interest, it's really moving people from a
from a position of not having a direction or capability to code or capability to strategize or a capability to do all these moving parts that required, but I think essentially the objective is to
grow community driven ideas and help people who have ideas or have interests or have specific talents realize those talents and fill in the missing pieces. So it's a lot more broad and I think when you build
these communities out, you know, not everybody likes to sweep the floor, right? Or not everybody likes to do the dishes, but if you're going to run a restaurant and you have a group of people together that have a passion to run a restaurant or make good food, everybody in that community has to pick up those pieces and so
So working together, you know, many hands make light work and it allows us as an organization, us, sorry, it allows the Dow to do that kind of heavy lifting and not have one person carry the load from start to finish.
when you're talking about building a community, a lot of it, well there is an aspect.
of it that requires a certain amount of bravado or
presence or charisma. There's also a lot more about
under the surface of that iceberg, right? That is the humbleness in like the
that we all are in this together. We all have to do the shit work here and there, and that's just the reality of getting something done that's beyond the scope of one person. I'll take a breath now. Anybody?
I think the way that I would sort of put it, maybe waxing a bit more poetic here, is with Wifiundry, these are end goal or at least my end goal that I would do with the protocols, to say that
We want to foster ideas and stop with you and answer us. So we're turning users into builders, consumers, into creators. It's not about feeding off the energy and resources of an organization, but about growing it. And this is the kind of, you know, I guess I would say outreach.
I want to see happening in Web Tree because we have so much creative energy here. I think just being in the space for about a year, you learn as much as things that you learn in five years outside.
like supercharged resources and autonomy and connections that you can make in Web Tree should be put to good use. It should not be that you are just spoon-fed or tube-fed all of these things making you into a passive consumer but you should be someone who takes an issue with
learn what you want to learn, do what you can do to advance the entire ecosystem. I think that's what WIFE is about enabling. >> Yeah, enabling democratization of access to capital, access to education.
access to information and access to communities essentially is what we're looking at.
Now, I think that's great.
you know, just curious, because I know with with YFD in particular, you know, back to, you know, like legitimately talking about swinging the floors, doing the dishes. There's a sort of work that goes into project as kind of a found
So I've heard the term hyperstructural beings are on around to leave it just like a foundational platform that can enable a vibrant economy built on top of it and I think you know we're definitely you know neck deep in that state
I'm going to be a little bit more focused on the web.
get beyond the MVP launch and then version one and you know get out there to where we could really see the platform used in ways that we can't even imagine now you know where people can come I have this idea I want to provide value. I'm interested to see that.
See that happening I For those that have joined feel free to you know come up if you got a question or you want to comment about what we're talking about for free feel free to Request to be a speaker Yeah, so we'll wait
for questions that if anybody has questions, I think you know one of the things is like how do you get
started organizing a community. And you know, if that doesn't happen organically,
through a larger organization, which I think in general, almost always
We're, you know, why founder came out of the larger organization?
of D5 and it came out of a Dracula protocol and
and some other, you know, discord groups or telegram groups, right?
So, I mean to start organizing community for time, but organizing communities for collaboration.
It really comes from some people who are passionate about it.
and like-minded in the same way.
Yeah, for sure. I mean like
something that we, you know, I think the community that we have, I think we're all aligned. It's a smaller community that we're looking to grow and I think scaling is really the question for some of this stuff, how do you scale? I know that we believe in, you know, the concept
to believe in the execution and how do you build something that provides value that's not overly extractive? Maybe it's extractive to the point of being self-sustaining. You have to have some measure of operations, but looking
to build something novel new, something foundational that everybody can benefit from. You put in the value, you have a great idea, you can launch something and you get the benefits from it. And then there's this whole ecosystem, this is like kind of ready
ready to go community that you can tap into to promote the projects get extra help get talent. It's just the cold start sort of problem, which I don't think we're at a cold start by any stretch, but it's definitely scaling thing in my mind.
How do you scale some of that up bring in even more people, especially in the environment we're in right now, which is kind of counterintuitive. I think it's a great time to be building things, but you also have a lot of people that have may have lost interest in the space because of it.
Absolutely. I think it's hard to have incentives that are sustainable and also the communities that are sustainable. I think the challenge that we're all going to work to fix things or solving
But again, sometimes these are problems or solutions that just have not been invented yet. And in a sense, being part of the process is building the tools for the people who will invent solutions if
even if you can't invent the solutions right now. So it's like we're paving the way I guess for the builders who will be innovating things that are even closer to what the ideal would be than what we would be able to do.
Hey, Deep, could you request again? I didn't mean to deny you there. I accidentally denied speaking request.
Hey, how's everyone doing?
I just wanted to jump up here, had some questions. I was curious how is the Discord bounty board been going? I saw that on your roadmap, I saw that it got published, I just curious if there's been a positive reception.
of that. And then the second thing I saw was up next in October was kind of this YFD token genesis event. And I was wondering if you can disclose anything at this time or just offer any insight into how that's going to look.
I can start off with the bouncing board. I think it's going great on the small scale. We definitely want to encourage more participation. They've been using it.
But posting additional bounties to which will help to drive people to use it. So that's definitely a call to action for the community. There's some bounties in there that don't really take any sort of skill. I mean, it's just a little bit of your time. Some of the sort of like marketing,
and sort of boundies. And they're all like legitimate sort of tax that we would love for someone to benefit. There's no just kind of like, you know, tax we just throw if they're just to have it. There's all stuff that is useful to the community. So we'd encourage anybody if you just have a few moments, I mean, really there's one that's like
I'm probably listening 10 minutes to do. Go on there, check out the bounty board. Join our Discord community, which will let you link to the D-Work. That's our partner for the bounty board. And at the very least, we'd love your feedback on the bounty board. There's also an option for community
suggestions so you can go on there. No one's used that yet but if there is something that you would like to do, maybe you have a particular skill, you think this would be useful, you can go on there and suggest it and we can create a specific bounty for that so that you can do that work, provide the value but we do have some
some working we haven't had a ton of submissions yet but that's increasing especially with the testing. I mean that's the big one and that's one that if you are comfortable with it especially if you played around in some of these spaces you played around with protocols at launch,
definitely love your insight come in there do some testing I mean that's super important at the moment. Yeah, hey guys I've jumped over onto different headsets hopefully I sound better now I'll watch where thumbs up on that.
In regards to our bounty board, I think it's going slow, but that's kind of the nature of things. I've organized a few communities in the meat space, as they say. And it takes a long time to hit critical, you know, critical velocity, critical, whatever you want.
want to call it critical mass. So it's really important as we've got things set up to handle the volume as it grows. And I think the Bounty Board is doing that. It's a lot of work to do the work to build the infrastructure up front. I don't -- and that's not to
ourselves on the back that's just to admit the reality of creating bounties that have a meaningful amount of information to communicate to people like what actually needs to be done is almost a full-time job. To go through like Crash was saying we're doing testing
Bounty's right now and we're starting to flesh out like so if you want to come test our UI in our contracts Join the testing group in the bounty board and join the testing group in the discord and you'll get some test net tokens and get access to the
the test UI that we're building out right now. But to write those tests, to actually say, "Okay, you have to click these buttons, you have to go to this thing, now do this function." And some of that is we're testing different experiences on the user side for different browsers, different operating systems, different
wallets, you know, that's one part of testing and then the other side of it is like, is it intuitive? So can we give tests and bounties to people that are more open-ended and can they actually use the interface as it exists to figure out how to do the things that need to happen for them to use and engage with these
with the contracts. So it's a long process. I think we're like crash said, it's going well. It's just that, you know, it takes a lot of setup and a lot of patience because it isn't like it explodes and then you've got a thousand people at your door asking to do bounties.
It just starts flowing and flowing and as we get closer to launch, I think we're going to see those numbers increase. That answers your question. Yeah, cold action. I mean, now is the time ahead of MVP. We've got some natural mechanisms to, you know, now's the time.
want to be involved, even potentially in the future, just get in there, get in the discord, see how the work is actually done and get familiar because we've got some natural incentives to this project that once it transitions fully to
the overall community, the vision of the community owns it, the community down. It's going to be, you know, there'll be natural incentives to reward being there early and being a part of this early on. That's more alpha for another time, but some of that gets ironed out, but this is the time where
not only do we need it, but it would be useful even if it's a small way just to get involved, get in there, join the discord, start doing some bounties, some of the, you know, even the slower level bounties just to get a feel for it and provide a feedback on the overall process. That's really what we need, whether it's testing,
whether it's UIUX stuff, whether it's some little promotion marketing to bring in some other builders, some like-minded individuals. And that's really whatever we can do to accelerate that critical mass point that Ray was talking about. It's really where we want to go.
Yeah, and to that point too is, I have to say that Dwork as a tool, Dwork.xyz has been fantastic. If I was going to set up another organization where they're needed to be or we wanted to have a way to track and make sure that
people who are actually doing the work and contributing meaningfully to the community were able to be recognized for that contribution. D-Work has provided us with a platform and with an interface on the back end and some of its public obviously community facing to allow us to like realize
who's actually going through and completing work or who's actually contributing to different areas. And so I can't speak highly enough in terms of how much de-work has saved us in building out infrastructure ourselves for bounties and community engagement.
Yeah, and just adding on to that, you know, I'll say like that's one of the cool things about web trees that the tools that are being built for a thousand on chain organizations that you know, I open access and make its way to the public for public use. I think
That's kind of very much the curb cut effect that we see benefits to the wider community from stuff that are being designed for the outside web tree organizations. Because anyone basically can use those tools to try any kind of work that they want.
The fact that it's free is just a huge bonus. I think considering that a lot of these tools on the other side, which is like on Web2, are probably marketed to its startups with a lot of capital. And that's going to have like a lot of cost, cost probably a bit of information for regular people like you and me.
Yeah, I thanks for the feedback. I just want to get a point of clarification. I think I read it in the discord, but these reputation points that you earn for doing these bounties. I think I read that they're redeemable for YFD tokens at a later time. Is that correct?
I don't think so. Yeah, not exactly. I mean, I think that's something we had discussed. So they're not exactly redeemable, but this reputation will definitely cement you, you know, possibly some discord roles for your
level of contribution, there's a leaderboard for the reputation point. So we're definitely considering the task points in D-work as a measure of like to race point like what sort of work are you actually doing and what level of contribution to the overall Dow and that will be meaningful in the future to be a part of that.
like you want to be a part of that early on and you definitely want to. No promise of direct compensation or anything and there may be more there once we get the token launched and the actual dowels in place and determines how to pay out some
of this stuff. Some of this stuff we're intentionally leaving for community decisions because it is a community decision. It's beyond just our small Genesis group that's been working on it. But all I can say is to my point earlier, this is the time to get involved if you're interested in the project.
I want to help out and be a foundational member of that community. This is the time to do that and you will be rewarded for it in one way or another for sure. Yeah, and to add to that too with what Grascha is saying is that, you know, these are ultimately decisions
that are left up to the Dow. And at this point, we're almost wrapped with our contribution piece in terms of what we've been instructed to do. So the Dow will be available to make these decisions to speak to your question about the TGE or the
token generation event is, those tokens need to be generated to identify who's in the community, who's a member of the Dow and who's not. And then from that generation event, the holders of tokens will be able to decide the direction of the protocol.
Yeah, and as far as extra I know you had another question specifically around the token generation event
I don't know, Ray, claim what sort of information are we prepared to put out? I don't think we have any information formally yet. I think a lot of the decisions are going to be left up to the Dow.
you know, we're just getting the token generated and then it's essentially the the Dow from there on out. So what what happens, how things are incentivized, it's really, you know, it's not in our control and we don't want it to be in our control. So I think that's what we can say right now.
We'll talk to our legal team and see what else you can save. Yeah, but the timing I think the timing. It really depends. So yeah, so from a technical standpoint, right? We're just wrapping up our final run on
the contracts, then they're going to go to audit. And that audit probably will take about two weeks. And then at that point, we'll deploy contracts. And I think the token would most likely be generated then, obviously,
and things go from there. So I mean it's development, it's technology, so if you promise anything, it seems like it's stuff slips a little bit, so we're really just trying to get everything done this month. And I feel like we're still in pretty good shape to get this to
and get everything out the door for MVP within October. And MVP. Oh, go ahead, Clint. Oh, no, just echo the sentiment. We just like, yeah, we definitely do not want to be making decisions on behalf
have seen how those pitfalls have happened a lot of over and over and over again. When a small group of people controls the tokens, it's just not a towel and it's just not decentralized. So we want to, from the get go, make sure that all of it as much as possible is up to the decision of the collected community.
Yeah, so it's doubly important to bring in the like-minded individuals, the builders, those who are interested in using the platform. Like, that's the community that we want to see have control over the direction. And those that are aligned with the long-term incentive to completely build value, build
foundational layer that economies can build on top of and really test this thing. I mean, it is an exciting time to be involved, get familiar with what we have going on because once MVP hits opportunities will abound to put in proposals to hit the ground running with different projects that you may have.
of the default strategies, there'll be a lot of opportunity as things continue to move from MVP to version one, a lot of opportunities to use the platform in various ways. And I'm sure tons of ways that we haven't even thought about, you know, which is what's exciting about it.
Yeah, I think in general, you know, when you're actually doing a Dow, right, not just a formal structured organization where the core team migrates from private secret, you know, heads down development
to public, or public development, but they still own all the tokens. And so there's really the community is essentially like a second class citizen in the sense of driving the production of things. I mean that does work
and that is more efficient but to what end, right? Because you're not really in our experiment or in this experiment, I guess. A lot of what the thinking is is that can something actually, you know, it's going to be extremely messy.
at the beginning as everything gets settled out and factions form or people, you know, natural leaders are going to come up. It's like, how does this, it's like a big bang essentially, right? That's the TGE and in a true doubt. It's this explosion of energy.
And then what happens what forms out of that what clusters grow out of that and how does that come together and start to actually function as an ecosystem and again like I say it's it's extremely Exciting and it's it's like going on a roll
poster, is that kind of excitement and fear, yeah, kind of joined together? So I want to comment real quick on the tail end of that is that like, you know, with with crypto within the past year, the past maybe five years, we've really seen like the evolution of token
to where it's like from proof of work, like Ethereum Bitcoin, where you have to use computer mining to get the token. And then what we see today is that with proof of work, eventually when people don't want proof of work anymore, whether that's the narrative of like energy consumption or it's the narrative of like people buying up.
all kinds of computer hardware making it tough for other normal users. Point mining, it's headed to the trash, I think, in the long run. Because number one, it's limited amount of computing power. And number two, it just uses a ton of energy and we seem like in a
some miners are already dumping their hardware because Ethereum has moved to proof of stake. So that's not a fully sustainable way. It was a great proof of concept and it worked for a while. And it definitely results in a more distributed ledger per se, but not always because miners with the hardware and the capital
that would definitely have the advantage. And then you look at proof of stake, which is like I guess the meta now everything is proof of stake for a cosmos, Ethereum 2.0. And it kind of also centralizes control, like especially if you look at the way that validators work. You know, we did an analysis real quick on like cosmos,
And like the top with the top 100 validators, you only need like 12 or 15 of them to basically have a super majority, which is not good for decentralized ecosystem. And so like proof of state rules work, none of these are kind of the ideal distribution yet. And I think the sort of way
that we're looking at it with, at least we're trying to, with a wife-houndry token, is proof of collaboration or proof of contribution in the sense that you have to be human and you have to be doing something that moves the doubt towards its end goal, towards its end vision.
or yeah, Ray, you have something to improve that.
Yeah, I was going to say with what you're saying, I think where we're moving things and you'll see it. This is our alpha piece. You'll see it in the TGE is we're really looking at proof of reputation. Like proof of collaboration like you're saying, like who contributes to the community and.
Because proof of work is one thing, it celebrates a strong or the people that have the infrastructure and proof of stake celebrates the people that have the funds, the money that made their money from proof of work. But really you have the majority of the community is really driving on proof of reputation.
a proof of collaboration or community. And so I think that's really what we'd like to see things, the direction things are dull. She cleaned the other markets. Precisely. I think every step that we can take as a community, as the people who are
in Web Tree, who are going to be the next advocates where Web Tree only be right now, honestly, because after the bear market, a lot of people have left. As the people who are still here, we have to say that every single step that moves us away from proof of wealth is a good step for Web Tree.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think we talked about, you know, we got a partnership with Dwork. We'll partner with others in the space to get there with, you know, how can we enable this future? You know, mentioned meritocracy before proof of reputation. This is definitely where we want to work.
you come in, you have ideas, you can provide value in different ways, all sorts of different ways that can be just being there and having a voice in the community even. But regardless, we can know that you are an actual person that is
contributing and what level you are contributing and that'll be just more and more few more and more valuable as this thing grows. It's exciting. And I was going to say we should clarify too with that that building these
bounty boards is the way for the community to drive their own assessment of value, to quantify what is reputation and what is contribution. It's not a team of people in the back room going, oh these are the things to do. It's the community saying, hey we want these things done.
the platform and then community members stepping up and doing those things for the platform. So it creates a flywheel where the community creates the events that require contributions and then the community rewards itself for achieving its own goals. It isn't top down in that sense if that makes sense to people.
Um, the, the Dows Working Groups. We've got some thoughts on how best to organize the chaos, like we talked about before and, um,
I honestly, I think like the you talk about centralization and yes, you can get things done but just how how much more powerful is it to have the kind of hive mind and all of the talent if you can like somewhat organize
organize that, bring them in and they can, they can, they can, we'll self organize to a certain extent around things that they're passionate about instead of it being like, hey, here's this specific task, this is your job, you must do it. Like how can we make a world where, you know, everyone's large
self-employed, like you do what you want to provide value and as long as you're providing that value, you get rewarded for it and you can sustain yourself. I think we're at the cusp of something there. Yeah, I don't know if anybody here
has read the, it got leaked onto the internet, the Valve software group, you know, the guys that made Steam or the people that made Steam. If you can go ahead and read their employee handbook, it is essentially a flat
organization of like, "Hey, you just do the things that you think add value to the organization." And that's why you're here. We know you're smart, we know you want to be involved in the community. So participate in the community in the ways that you believe add value. And we'll use that, you know.
as a way to recognize your contribution. It's very well thought out manual and it's very open-ended. We're treats the people in the community or the people that work at Valve with respect. It's not that, "Oh, you're a janitor and this is your box."
is the only thing you do is janitor things. It's like you were a member of the community and if you see things and you can improve it, then it's your responsibility as a community member to do the things to improve the community.
I look forward to the handbook. I don't know if this is the truth about people. On the first page, it says, "Handbook for new employees. A fearless adventure in knowing what to do when no one's there telling you what to do." I feel that is exactly what it is.
Yeah, I totally agree. You just think about the gig economy. I mean, I think it's all been building towards, and not like this is the ultimate culmination. I think this is just the next step. And the doubt sort of quote experiment is the next step. And, you know,
some of these, it's just a long time coming, steps towards this sort of fear that we're looking at and take a lesson learned from, "Oh, here's what works about the gig economy and why it works," but you have all of these centralized entities that are extracting value from all
the employees and taking a cut, you know, middleman taking an unnecessary cut with platform, you know, some of the job platforms that are out there, like, same thing for some of the like, startup accelerator sort of programs. I mean, you got like all of these ideas that are kind of circling around
how do you get people in, get their funding, but then you have, oh there's these middlemen of seed investors that their huge cuts and other things before it launches and dump on retail and how do you make the
contributors in the network, those that are building, as well as those that are using, they're all getting the full amount of the value of that thing and incentivize naturally to keep building and keep providing more value, sharing it with others, bringing more people in. I think
We're working on, and we are in the overall community, the overall cosmos community, I think. But really working on how can we build all of the tools to enable just continually, like this sole reputation
sort of economy to just, yeah, really move forward in the kind of path that we've seen. Yeah, to add to that, I will say that I think we can point to specific examples in Terra and
And other chains is a piece of deficiency in engaging with the community right now in Web 3 is that proposals and governance actions are negotiated behind the scenes without engagement with the community before