okay, testing, can everybody hear me?
okay, we're just going to give it a minute
let a couple more people trickle in and then we'll get going
but thank you guys for joining
looks like people are still trickling in so just give it like 30 more seconds
also, this whole thing will be recorded so if any of you guys need to dip out early at any point or if anybody can join, there should be a link after where you can listen back to it
and we'll post that in the telegram too if anybody misses it
okay, I think we're pretty much good to get going here and if anybody joins in, they can just pick up from there and listen back if you miss anything
so this will be our first AMA, thanks a lot to everybody who's joined and we have the whole team here so for people who have technical questions, Acme can answer those
Cern is here for anything related to art or anything that's more so on his end but he probably won't be speaking as much
and we do have a lot to share and that we can announce but obviously this will mostly be for questions so to get some of that out of the way just to get started
we have a couple of new people who are going to be joining the team which I'm really excited about
I'm not sure if they're in here, I'm looking, maybe I can bring them up
but one of them is Math who some of you guys may have seen in the telegram
he'll be joining us to help out with some more development work which is exciting, we'll be able to ship stuff faster
and some of you guys probably already know him because he has already shipped out a couple of community, I guess you could say tools
he's the guy who built the website that lets you check the box rarity seeds and the upcoming rolls
so that's really great, that makes us really confident to bring him on so I just want to shout him out first before we get started
on top of that we'll be opening the Discord right after this AMA so we'll probably talk a little bit here about what's going to be happening in there
because it's a little bit more than I think we initially let on to
so that's exciting but yeah we can jump into some questions first and then I'm sure anything new or that we're ready to announce will probably come up here
and then there is one more thing which I'll probably save for the end but I'm excited to share with you guys
so yeah if anybody wants to request to come up we can start bringing a few people up
and we can start answering any questions you guys have because I'm sure there's a lot that people still don't know or that people are confused about
so thank you so much for your time and I'll see you guys next time
okay we have our first request there we go
yo what's up guys how's it going
yeah good good I guess I had kind of like a general question if you I know you kind of hinted at it in the chat and if you can't answer this that's totally fine
but I was curious if you wanted to talk a bit about how you guys went about the art or like the traits for the NFTs because it's quite a lot of buzz
we've seen like all the people hunting for for red boxes and stuff and it seems like it's not as simple as that some kind of curious to hear
like how the reveal how the how the like the path to the reveal is maybe next week or whenever it is and if you can give more details about that
that's a great question okay so I'll start by saying that I think that reveal is not just about revealing the artwork it's also kind of revealing more about what Pandora even is and where we're taking the project
so I think that's one thing that a lot of people have kind of gotten not wrong but that they've oversimplified right is like people are thinking about it as I want red boxes because I want rare traits for my PFP
and we have said that these are avatars meaning that you know there is a component to them that is you know obviously mostly artwork based you could PFP them
but that's not all that they are so you know I'm not saying that anybody is wrong in taking extra Y approach but people may want different things once they realize you know what it is that they're even deciding for
in terms of how we've gone about you know designing traits and how we've gone about like curating the collection something that we've talked a lot about in telegram
is how you need to go about thinking about rarity for something like this very differently not not as like a speculator but as a creator right
because we have a lot of unique features that haven't really been done before so for example the fact that these can be regenerated
obviously makes it so that if we approach rarity in like a traditional or conventional way it would kind of be boring or meaningless but we think that this is a lot more interesting because now that people can you know kind of reroll their NFTs
for different traits we need to think more about how we can create a system where what people are really going for is like different overall like compositions right and how we can make certain ones of those desirable
which is also interesting because like when you have a bunch of different traits and people are trying to get certain combinations you can actually make things a lot rare right because at that point like the probability is being compounded
so instead of going for I don't know some like a like a hoodie trait that's like 1% right it's like somebody might get something that's a highly desirable outcome
that is an extremely extremely low percent chance of rolling because it's a combination of a lot of different particular rare individual traits so that's kind of how we've been thinking about it I guess just from a design standpoint
maybe there's some stuff that ACME can share from a technical standpoint because you know there are obviously limitations to what you can and can't do and there are also a lot of new possibilities as to what you can do with a system like this
so ACME if you have any interesting insights just technically speaking about how the rarity stuff works feel free
I see you unmuted but I don't think your mic is working
this is why I told ACME that being on spaces on mobile was a good idea because the PC version is shit
I don't think he listened
oh yeah it doesn't really work on PC
yeah you're probably gonna have to switch your phone
yeah he said he's joining mobile
but yeah do you have any questions about that while he helps on in terms of you know just everything I kind of just yapped about
no I mean it makes a lot of sense I guess there's not until we see it I guess there's not much
I guess do you expect once like this takes whatever form it takes
right now if you look at the at the trading people are just buying it like people are mostly just buying the token
but they're buying the NFTs if they're buying the red boxes is what I noticed because that's what's perceived as like the most desirable thing to have
and one I think one positive flywheel for for the protocol which which I really like is the fact that people can if they don't care that much about the rarities
they can quote unquote ARV it where they can sell something that's perceived more rare get a higher price than they would on the token
and then just like rebuy the token and you like get more tokens that way
so right now this ARV is not that extensive since it's only like the red boxes that are being bought and it's like maybe like 10 20% premium
but do you expect that the way that these rarities will compound that this ARV will get more intense and like it will put let's say more buy pressure on the token itself
I expect it I expect it to go honestly absolutely insane because right now the ARV is I mean the more complex an arbitrage opportunity becomes
the more like people actually to put in the effort to like you know find a lucrative ARV operate right now it's very simple
like you know it's very brain dead to understand that like some people aren't red so if you get a red there's maybe an opportunity there
but once there's an actual much more nuanced market with demand for a lot of different things not all of which come out of red boxes
yeah I think it'll get a lot more interesting I think that it'll be a lot cooler to witness even if you're not participating there
but I have said before I think one thing that is worth revisiting is that you can think about the different rarities not so much as you know certain traits per se
which some people have been approaching them as but more so certain categories so you know pulling from certain pools I guess you could say
and the reason I guess I've been like a little bit vague about this is because I there are certain words that I don't think are great to use
I think they're like very bullish short-term but sound like buzzwords and bullshit and one of them that I've really tried to avoid is saying that these have utility
because you know like I think that that's a very kind of like just ambiguous word I don't know if you'd call something utility just because it has function
but there are things that you can do basically like these do do something so people who are interested more in you know participating in what this is will definitely have different subjective opinions on what they want
and the market should be more interesting as a result I see anon reacting with hundred emojis because he kind of had a good guess about this so I know he probably knows what I'm alluding to
Acme I think he's on mobile now so if you want to talk a bit about the tech go ahead
yeah sounds good can you hear me okay now
yeah that's perfect cool sweet so yeah just to talk a bit about the tech pre reveal post reveal things are going to change a lot so pre reveal we did want to keep things simple which is why we have a relatively simple
rarity scheme we wanted to get people experimenting we wanted to you know get people engaging with the token and playing around with the possibilities kind of this new standard
so this pre reveal rarity scheme is something that will you know be brought into and be a part of post reveal of course but during post reveal things are going to change a lot
we're going to have a much more complicated rarity scheme we're going to have you know different ways to I guess engage and experiment and we also want this to be something that kind of presents like a degree of discoverability for people
so we do want post reveal to have a rarity scheme that people can play around with and explore pretty deeply
so we'll likely obfuscate that a bit whereas right now you know it's it's super clear how you can reroll how you can you know farm certain rarities whereas post reveal will continue to bring some of that in but we do want to have again just a deeper more complicated system
that the community can kind of engage with experiment with and discover things about if that makes sense but yeah it's going to change up a lot post reveal that's that's pretty much the gist of it
awesome dragos do you have any more questions on that or do you want to pass it off to someone else no on that I'm good I don't want to take all the time with my questions no no it's a great question thank you I think next person to come up was polar bear what's up man
I just want to say what you guys are doing is super cool and I'm a big fan and I like the tech anyways also I just have a question what like I guess what if you could give us like a timeline on when we can open the end of teaser when they'll be like revealed I think that would be cool for the community
to know kind of like a timeline for sure so I'll say a couple things I guess for one the reveal process that we are currently working towards is something that you know I guess you could say is procedural right it's it's going to be done in stages
the reason that I you know want to be careful about how we announced that is because or actually I kind of don't because our whole like ethos thus far has kind of been you know very very under promise over the liver which I think usually the opposite backfires badly so I'm glad we're doing that
but I don't want to give people the impression that we're doing some boring thing where it's like oh yeah guys it's staged and all that means is like stage one you know it's unrevealed stage two it's revealing a reveal stage three it's like almost revealed like that's boring and like we've seen that done before so when I say it's going to be done in stages I don't mean we're just going to like slowly build up a
bunch of hype to like a normal reveal the thing like as a whole is a little bit more nuanced so every stage will actually matter and will give real information but it kind of has more to do with the fact that we are rolling out the reveal for the NFTs and the reveal for the actual project at the same time
and the way that we want to do that is by shipping out some of the actual product as it's built alongside the reveal right so not just telling you guys hey like this is more about what your NFTs are this is where you're going to be able to do with them in like a month like we want everything to actually be ready out of the box
so that doesn't give you an actual date but obviously what I can say is that because of that the timelines have a lot to do with development but we are working our ass off on that and shipping really quickly so things are definitely going to be starting this week
I think that some interesting stuff is going to kick off with the discord which will give you guys something to do there will be some new mechanics introduced
and a lot of this has to do with like us also at the same time like not just exploring but also demonstrating like what you can do with the token standard right
because we want this to be like a good example for other developers as to what you can do with the ERC 404 and show them like hey don't make boring shit like you can do this this and this and this is all really interesting
but we don't just want to be like you know a proof of concept right like we're also building out our own project at the same time here so it's kind of like a two pronged approach
but yeah there will be a lot going on like not only throughout the rest of this weekend which is you know we're coming up on the end on but also this week
so it's not a long wait by any means it's not like sit around in a discord for months and see what happens it's pretty pretty rapid fire
cool yeah I appreciate the answer
what's going on Pandora team really cool project and you know anyone can do an NFT project of course right arts on revealed so there's a lot of you know there's there's a lot to look forward to there
but one thing I think that would be cool to talk about that I saw thread that you had reposted and I understood it a little bit but I think it'd be interesting to talk more about the uniqueness of this token standard and financialization
back when blur started everyone immediately had their like preconceived notions about blur and how it was going to be terrible for NFTs and let's face it if we didn't have blur
NFTs would probably be dead on if they would have gone for zero exactly absolutely so maybe you could yeah yeah great question
I personally have always been very bullish on NFT liquidity because I think that like people throw around the word liquidity a lot in crypto not just NFTs but like a lot of people don't even understand what the fuck it means
and a lot of people in NFTs especially don't really value like liquidity in the ways that they should like we know that it's important we know that having zero of it or having devs pull it and dump on your head is bad
but like as much as people like to hype up liquidity a lot of people in crypto actually value illiquidity right they're like hey like let's make more volatility like let's make things fucking crazy because we can chase a thousand X gains
but generally I think people have realized like when markets aren't crazy and euphoric like it really really sucks to be an NFT bag holder when you don't have like
so yeah as far as blur goes like I think I've always been firmly in that camp which is why it's kind of the same thing this time around right
I think that this kind of revolutionizes liquidity again and when I say this I just mean like the 404 token standard as a whole
because what you're basically doing is giving people a solution to like trade NFTs on Uniswap right like you're now interfacing an AMM with it
as if it has native liquidity like a way that people can think of blur bids and what that really did is kind of like it's like the
what's the word I'm looking for like the inverse of like an open C sale listing right like that that's not really true liquidity that's just allowing people to express an intent to purchase
whereas like a listing is an intent to sell so it's on both ends right like it's effectively kind of like creating an order book like
it's not just an issue if there are no bids on a collection on blur it's like imagine even pre blur if there are no listings on a collection on open C right then like it's not it's not something people can buy
obviously this has more to do with that with the buying side than the selling side because if people don't want to sell their NFTs nothing you can do but that's also kind of a good thing
what people want is to be able to sell them if they want to so yeah this allows NFTs to basically have a liquidity pool
which allows people to sell at any point and basically just gives it a fully liquid floor price like if you look at deck screener and you look at Pandora then the token price you're seeing is basically the floor
right like one token is a thousand four hundred and thirty two dollars this could also be expressed as like basically looking at an NFT where the floor price is I don't know how much is that probably like point five five point six east
but this makes it like a more accurate measure of value right because you can actually sell it for that on the spot at any point you're not actually selling peer to peer you're able to sell that into a liquidity pool
so I think that's really exciting just like for NFTs as a whole because let's use like like an older NFT collection is like a heuristic I guess like imagine if a collection like azuki or pudgy peg wins or you know whatever right one of these NFTs that minted and raised like twenty million dollars
if they could say hey ten percent of our mint is going to go to our liquidity pool right so they raised twenty mill they sell all these NFTs and then they take two million dollars they throw it in an LP well now basically what happens is you know you have deep native liquidity for that NFT people can always sell them there's always going to be a market for them
and that's kind of true in almost every single case even if the NFT breaks even if the floor price nukes like as long as that liquidity pool is maintained like there will still be liquidity you know even if floor price is down bad and you're losing money selling at least it's something you can do
which I'm sure a lot of people have experienced sitting around you know trying to get something to sell for ages because the markets down bad and you know also I think that like developers and teams also probably realize a profit from this at the end of the day because like using the azuki example like yes they're committing money to that LP
but they're also incentivized to do so right because they're driving more volume to the collection they're making more money on you know royalties which also works like through the LP if you have LP fees or if let's say you were to slap a tax on it
but yeah that's that's kind of some perspective from my side I think Acme could probably again chime in and talk a little bit more about maybe his perspective on this as a dev because you know he's worked on a lot of stuff as well as other projects in the NFT space and also in crypto and DeFi so this is kind of an interesting intersection
Acme do you have any any more input on this stuff?
So I want to start by saying that I vehemently think that this is probably the most effective NFT liquidity solution I've seen so far
and the reason being like we've seen a lot of you know solid projects that have tried to approach the NFT illiquidity issue and they've done a decent job at it
but the main issue you see with a lot of these is that they still remain siloed like the crypto space as a whole has a lot of silos and the NFT community is a big one
so it's difficult to break into for people who are outside of that whereas I think with our solution you know with the ERC 404 standard we've really created something that actually successfully bridges those silos
and I mean we can see that not only by the volume we were doing day one and continue to do keeping up with top collections but we've also seen a lot of you know meme coin speculators who are suddenly buying an NFT because they can you know access it easily
it's easily palatable it's tradable on uniswap like a normal token so yeah I think it bridges those gaps really well and I think that's something that you know definitely shouldn't be downplayed
and I don't see it talked about enough but yeah that's definitely one of the big things I also think it introduces a much better sustainability model to NFTs
and I haven't seen this talked about much either whereas with you know with traditional collections you see a standard mint people pay for an NFT the creators collect that payment and that's effectively it you know it's at their discretion whether they want to do buybacks
for price or whatever and it just doesn't go that well whereas under this model there's effectively no sale that goes to the team the initial sale and I mean this can be adjusted but the initial sale goes straight to a liquidity pool royalties are effectively lower it just creates deep liquidity
for a collection that you don't see with other launches so I think this is something that's also super interesting and it's definitely just a weird blend of kind of both of these spaces that has worked really really well at bridging them and of course providing that degree of sustainability that you don't usually see in NFT collections
yeah that's about it for me I think I think control summed it up pretty well as well yeah I also want to throw in and and I see I see NFT raising his hand so I do want to give you a chance to speak really soon but I want to say one more thing because you talked about how these spaces are siloed a lot and I want to make sure people you know have like a good impression of what you're actually trying to say by that
I want to give like a quick example look at something like crypto punks right crypto punks are very expensive so there are a lot of people who are like yeah if I could afford one I would buy one there are a lot of people who think that they're going to go up but obviously it's not something that you can really have fractional exposure to and even if you can't afford an entire crypto punk if you're not in the NFT market you probably don't want to go and you know figure out NFTs buying NFT just to have exposure
even if you're in you know crypto or DeFi you trade tokens every day maybe NFTs aren't your thing and you're like yeah it's not really my space but seems like punks do well well this kind of creates like a much more accessible market to be able to have exposure to let's say something like crypto punks if this was built on the standard where you know just like any other token you can literally go you can buy a bag based not on what the floor price of a punk is but how much exposure you want right hey I want to throw five
at this I want to throw 10k at this and that way you can still have meaningful exposure to something that you don't necessarily have to go and get fully involved with as like a holder and I guess that's kind of like similar to like the phenomena you see in the stock market with with like prices and like why certain certain companies often elect to do like a stock splits right if you have something like what's a good example I think like Tesla and video are like ones that
people would recognize like if a share price is like 400 500 bucks oftentimes like you know there's market psychology that applies where people are like oh I don't like this because it's expensive and I can go and buy a stock that's $5 and then I can have more of them so I'll make more money and that's not actually how it works but it's again it's market psychology people see the number and they're like oh that sucks I can only afford one share so they do a stock split right so now you know instead of 500 bucks they
dilute the stock right more more shares in circulation lower price so this is kind of like a similar thing going on now where like if you have an NFT that's like 50 grand people can go and they can buy 0.1 you know of one token and in that way like you know everybody can have exposure and that brings in a lot more volume like I can't really say what it would do in practice but you know you could imagine like what would happen if now everybody could go and throw some money at
the banks because not everybody has 50 ETH but you know for the most part I think everybody in here has a couple of ETH that they probably used to speculate on the market all the time so yeah it gives accessibility to crypto shrimps and then it's also good for crypto whales because now you have people who are you know driving volume to the collection and who are also kind of creating like a temporarily deflationary effect because you know they're let's say buying
like two people have 0.5 of a token now you've basically temporarily removed one from the free float anyways I'll pass it off to iced NFT because that was a very long explanation but hopefully that answers your question yeah dude I love what you're doing I'm curious about how you think upcoming NFT projects or even just in general protocols will start thinking about this new standard do you think they'd be incentivized to want to launch an ERC
404 as opposed to even just doing a regular like token drop like I'm seeing this as a much more I don't like to like use the word like stock raising like money but basically a much more efficient way to raise money at the start for NFT project for sure but what about for projects like do you think they'll want to use this or will they also use an ERC 404 and an ERC 20 that's a great question I mean I think one thing people have to remember is like a lot of people have asked like oh
like is this like the new standard like what if this becomes a new thing everybody uses instead of this and some people are like oh they could never use this instead of this because what if you know like they wanted to do this thing that people can do with 721 and like I have for mine people that it's not really about creating like a new de facto like hey this is the thing to use for everything if you look at NFT even already like we have 721 and we have 1155 like those are both very common token standards right
it's great that we have both because if you want to make something like azuki you would never want to use an 1155 but if you want to make something like an open edition then it's a good thing we have that option because it makes it it makes a lot more sense with that application so I think it's the same thing here where it's a new thing that makes perfect sense for a lot of different applications of NFTs and that for some you're probably still better off using 1155 or 721 but like an example that somebody used
at some point earlier they DM me about I wish I could find that right now but I don't remember who it was was like like tickets like concert tickets that was like a really interesting example that somebody used in terms of like you know the one you just use like looking at it as kind of more of a stock or seeing it as a more effective way to raise money
I think that you know under certain conditions that could also be true again I kind of want to defer a little bit to Acme because he has some pretty interesting insights that he's talked about in terms of what this could be better for and what it could be worse for and we also see a lot of applications specifically in like web3 gaming and what this could enable there maybe there's a some alpha in that but yeah I don't know Acme do you want to chime in on that as well?
Yeah sure so I kind of want to touch on integrating with you know existing collections or new collections because this is a standard that I really want to see adopted because I do think there is just you know full benefit for new collections for existing collections it just adds a lot of stability sustainability like I've already said.
But right now the the protocol and the standard is fairly immature I mean we're the first project that's launched on it I think it's something that we do want to bring to a much higher degree of maturity and kind of consider how you know for instance a large pre-existing collection could integrate by let's say wrapping an existing ERC 721 and bootstrapping and ERC 404 variant with native liquidity fractionalization so I think that's something
we're going to explore fairly soon I mean full priority right now is definitely on Pandora but again do want to see other projects especially different projects kind of kind of take this on and explore their own ways of realizing its potential but that's definitely one and I mean aside from that I do really want to see new collections you know using this because like you said it's just a really strong way of bootstrapping a project
I mean we see that immediately most projects that launch for instance you know they launch they have a floor price pre-reveal they have a mint price and then they typically just they just nuke and bleed out because there's there's no bi-volume there's no liquidity whereas in this case you know obviously all of that is just immediately bootstrapped royalties are maintained pretty much I mean it's pretty much just a best of both worlds thing in my
opinion yeah that's about it for me yeah and then I think one thing you mentioned earlier is that it's also maybe a little bit more friendly to the actual consumer and one reason for that I think as you said like royalties things like that like ways in which like teams are able to extract value are kind of first of all I think on a higher like a higher time frame and not as immediate as hey give us all your money and then we deliver value after
and then second of all like you know it kind of creates an interesting effect where like royalties like you know like earnings like that over time generally become a little bit lower so for example like for us like you know we have 1% fees that we can collect from like LPN which is obviously a lot lower right now than the standard like you know 5% like you know I know in the past we've seen things like 10% like just like crazy royalties so in that sense I guess like users have something to look forward to
in terms of you know like getting a fair end of the deal but yeah I guess one last thing before we move on from that is just to make sure that your question was answered like Acme do you have any thoughts on specifically what kind of projects benefit best from this I think that's kind of like part of what the crux of the question was is like who and like what kind of applications can use erc 404 most effectively.
Honestly, I do think it's it's super flexible and still something that needs to be explored, but in general, I think projects that are sticking around long term and want you know a long term legitimate presence that's those are the ones that benefits like short term projects in terms of its applications, would you say.
Like web 3 gaming would you say like utility NFT is like you know things things are more similar to traditional like PFP like 10 K collections, do you have any insight on that?
Yeah, I mean I definitely think there's more of a benefit here for collections that want to introduce utility and interactivity I mean it just works much better.
It's again tough to say, but
the probability of it that access low barrier to entry is what makes it interesting I think and what makes it flexible for you know projects that might have, you know, erc 1155 and you know multiple multi collection or generative NFT is anything that's, you know, changing hands constantly or needs like a higher degree of utility higher degree of liquidity.
So yeah, I'd say a lot of a lot of gaming projects would definitely benefit I think pretty much anything that you know does focus on the interactivity side of it.
Okay, so there. So, yeah, it sounds like ACME generally thinks kind of everything, which is, I guess, yeah, that would be cool if this was the literal best for everything but what he just touched on in the end is my opinion.
I think that the more interactive a project is, as you said, like, the more it needs to change hands.
Therefore, like, you know, the more it makes sense for something like this to be the best application on the best standard to build on. So web three gaming being a very very obvious answer.
I think anything where, you know, there's a reason for people to be constantly transacting and shuffling around NFTs. So, for example, again, I think gaming is a perfect example, you know, that's items characters, whatever.
The more it makes a lot of sense for something like this to work very very well, even even as like a value capture like mechanism for the teams, right, like, you know, they're also making more money seem more incentive in that sense, and then consumers are also getting a lot more convenience a lot more
quality of life using something like this than something like 721. Right, because like think of any web three game that you've ever played, if you have played one that integrates ERC 721s.
And, you know, going on, like the market to buying like x assets or maybe selling x assets that you've earned.
Probably doing that multiple multiple times a day, instead of, you know, like a PFP, where you know, you probably bought yours like months ago, I know NFT I know you've had that PFP for like a year, probably longer.
Those are like two very different things, right. But if it's a scenario like in gaming or in like a very interactive project where people are constantly moving these around constantly buying and selling different assets.
I think that's where this goes from like, still a big innovation to being like, wow, like, this is a game changer. This is so much better.
Control if I may real quick to other observations I wanted to make about this is that, you know, back in 2021, one of the first models that was used was bonding curves, but the bonding curves were very unfair.
And obviously, it rewarded the early holders, but they were inclined to just dump it when they were once they made their money and wanted to move on. Whereas with this, it's much more sustainable.
And it feels more organic. It's a more authentic valuation of the market. And also, like, it allows for people who get in early to, you know, be rewarded for that.
But at the same time, those that get in later, like, they're not going to have to worry that the market's just going to dump out of nowhere the way that many NFT collections do because we know that a lot of NFT collections, unfortunately, are inclined to be pump and dumps.
And this kind of takes that variable away, I feel, or at least it mitigates that risk where someone can get in, you know, a week or two after mint and not worry that like, oh, market's dead.
Yeah, I mean, that's that's like, and there are definitely parts of this that like, because it's something that's so new and like a little bit of a mind fuck like there are things that like even we, as the people making it realize like we've, you know, done or achieved completely by accident.
Right. So like, this is kind of one of those things that like I've been thinking about a lot and trying to wrap my head around is like the difference between having a floor.
Right. So like, I mean, like with a traditional NFT collection, it's like, if you have an NFT where you've got like a really thick floor, right?
Like, this is, you know, anybody who's traded a lot of NFTs knows like you don't want to see a bunch of fucking people listing at the same price or seeing that you need like 60 sales to, you know, move like 0.01 each.
Like, this kind of changes that a lot, right? There's basically the floor is always actually like a true floor.
Because, you know, if you sell one, then like the floor is no longer the same. If you buy one, the floor is no longer the same.
So, yeah, I think that's true. It gives people more assurance that like what they're buying is actually an accurate representation of the supply and demand, as opposed to having a situation where you buy one at 0.5 because there's like three listed for that.
And then it goes up. And then before anybody buys the other two, some whale comes in and cheats like 50 onto the market and there's not enough demand.
And then it just sits there and bleeds out forever. In this sense, that can't really happen. And like people can have way more confidence that you see, like, again, the gears are like kind of turning in my head as I'm speaking.
Like, I guess in this sense, it kind of eliminates that problem entirely. Like, it's not that really possible anymore for there to be like a thick floor and for people to be like, why is everybody listening?
That literally just doesn't happen. You just buy or sell into the LP.
You basically eliminated the edge for market makers. And I think that that's incredible.
Yeah, I don't know. There are a lot of cool ways to think about it. Like, I'm always hesitant to be like decisively matter of fact about anything that I'm literally still considering.
Like, I don't want to be like, oh, my God, this is the best thing ever. And then realize extra why thing like, there's always going to be limitations and downsides.
I don't want to act like we've cured cancer. But the more I think about it, yeah, the more like it is pretty cool.
It seems like a lot of the stuff that sucks about NFTs isn't really an issue anymore with something like this.
T, I want to kick it back to you and make sure we actually answered your question before we segue completely.
No, for sure. You guys answered it and I'm really fucking excited for you and for this protocol in general.
I'm glad we answered your question. Thank you.
Hey, guys. Nice to speak to you all. Yeah, I actually wanted to add some perspective from my side.
So I'm part of an NFT ticketing project. We've been working for, say, seven out of seven years on NFT ticketing as a whole.
Are you the guy who gave me about?
That's not the end. I put on like a thread just talking about the potential for NFT ticketing.
OK, maybe it was a thread. I saw something about.
Yes, I just wanted to add some perspective from that side because it's a super unique.
Well, basically, what makes ticketing kind of perfect for this standard is tickets are both fungible and non-fungible by kind of their nature.
Right. So like when you buy from a primary market, tickets are inherently fungible.
But when you actually go to an event, they become non-fungible because you're assigned a seat, maybe a row, et cetera.
Also, I just want to just cut you off quickly to interject with this. I think it's important that people remember this.
We keep saying NFTs. These are now kind of technically like SFTs is like a thing that I've kind of churned like in my head.
Like they're semi-fungible at this point. Yeah, exactly.
And so I think one of the inefficiencies with ticketing as a whole is the fact that the second you buy it off of the primary, most, well, pretty much every ticketing provider inherently makes it non-fungible because it's got your name on it.
It's got a seat on it. It's very, very difficult to actually resell that.
You actually it's very much like selling a traditional NFT, right? You have to have something.
Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. But once you sell it, it's now something.
Yeah, exactly. Now it's something that has your name on it and it's very difficult to actually resell it.
This is amazing. Yeah. And also then you have the gamification, right? Because, for example, if you had like a whole, you had a whole token, right?
So then it becomes this SFT, as you mentioned, you could also then have the gamification of having an upgrade to a VIP ticket or a meeting great or something like that.
So you also add this kind of extra revenue stream, I suppose, from the LP that an event organizer could set up using this kind of model.
And also just fans, like you see it a lot. So we do Web 2.5 ticketing, but still someone has to resell their ticket to someone else, even if it is an NFT.
And that's really detrimental for an event organizer who also wants to sell out their primary market.
So I just wanted to say, I think ESC 404 is perfect for many, many different use cases ticketing included.
So I want to give you, first of all, thank you so much. I want to give you an example, something that just came to mind.
I want to know what you think of this. So, yeah, let's say you're selling like a thousand tickets for an event. What if you did it this way?
So say you launch a 404 contract with an LP. Say that the NFTs are non-transferable.
Users are basically blacklisted from moving around the NFTs, but it still works the same way.
You buy a token, you get an NFT, you sell a token, you lose the NFT.
Now, let's say that you set the max per wallet, the maximum that you can have in a single wallet to one.
So you can only purchase one token. Now you can basically sell tickets for an event where you launch that LP.
People can only buy a single token per wallet. There's 10,000. People go, they buy them.
Once you buy a token, you have a ticket in your wallet. That's basically assigned to you because the NFT can't be transferred.
But the token can. So if you decide you don't want that ticket anymore, boom, it goes back into the market.
There's one word for sale. Somebody else snags it. Now it's a different ticket.
Yeah, it's so cool, honestly. It's so flexible. Yeah, it definitely works for sure. Yeah, no, really, really cool.
I'm going to share this with my team as well. And who knows? We can reach out.
Amazing. Thanks a lot for the insight, man. And I'll add on to that to say, obviously, for example, when new L1s launch, things like that,
people have developer incentives, like people want other creators, developers using their tech. It's the same thing here.
If you have a project, if you're making a project, et cetera, we would love to be able to help you however we can because we want to see more people using ERC 404s.
And up until now, I've been saying somebody should really do that because you will be the first project that isn't us to actually go and adopt this.
However, we have an announcement. I'll wait until a little bit later on in the spaces, but that's no longer the case.
So if anybody does it, you'll be the third. But somebody has already approached and is building something we're super excited for.
So we'll talk about that. But yeah, before we get to that, Monk, I think you've been waiting. What's up?
Yeah, sure. Can you guys hear me? Yeah, we can hear you.
Yes, I just wanted to say, first of all, it's kind of amazing what you guys are able to build. I guess basically a day.
And I mean, obviously, this project stemmed from one that was exploited. And you guys have mentioned before that it's still or ERC 404 is still a pretty experimental token standard.
I guess my question is, and maybe Acme can chime in on this too, but what do you still don't know about ERC 404? Does experimental mean that there are still risks associated with it?
And is there a process in place to make sure that the token standard is rock solid and genuinely novel?
When do you think you'll feel comfortable enough to come out and say, this is pretty real?
I will say before Acme jumps into that, my perspective quickly is that for the ending of your question, like, when will we be 100% ready to say, boom, this is real, not experimental, has to do with audits, right?
So we've had an independent audit. We're going to get another independent audit underway with, you know, somebody that we can publicize, like, you know, with kind of like someone who's trusted in the space as an auditor.
But then the big one is going to be an audit from a firm. So the reason that we want to pursue independent first is because firms take forever.
They're also very expensive, but like, that's not an issue. Like, we will probably have to cough up about 50K for an audit from like a good firm.
So basically anybody that's not CERTIC. And so, yeah, I mean, that's going to be something we'll do.
But more importantly, like a big firm takes like a couple of weeks to audit. And, you know, if you have great independent auditors looking at something, and like, I would say even Acme would count as like somebody that I would consider to be somebody fit for that.
At that point, you know, the firm is more a stamp of approval, right? So we're going to get that stamp of approval as fast as we can.
Usually, as I said, they take a couple of weeks. But once we have that and, you know, we have firms like, you know, that people know and recognize saying, yeah, this looks totally safe, I think everybody will be happy.
In the meantime, from our perspective, things look pretty good. But yeah, let Acme finish off that question from a technical perspective.
Yeah, that was a super good question. And I'd say it kind of talks up to, you know, how many protocols have adopted the standard or are aware of the standard and how many projects have actually launched with the standard.
And to elaborate a bit more on that, like we've seen a few projects that have, you know, tried to take this approach and have failed due to vulnerabilities exploits or just, you know, spaghetti code.
And really kind of taking this on making it work does require a deep understanding of, you know, a lot of DeFi protocols out there, such as UniSwap, V2, V3.
It requires a deep understanding of how NFT protocols like OpenSea integrate with projects.
So yeah, it's experimental in the sense that it's totally new, and we haven't really seen fully how these existing protocols integrate.
But what I can say is that we spent a lot of time on testing, and we were really careful to cover all of these bases. And we've seen it work really well so far.
So I do feel like it will come out of that experimental space sometime soon.
But again, like Control said, we do need audits. I think another important thing is making sure that protocols are aware of the standard and, you know, getting their perspective as well, even though I do feel like we have a pretty, pretty strong understanding of how they integrate.
And we've seen their integrations go pretty well.
But another thing, of course, is we want to see how different collections can adopt the standard. You know, our collection is pretty distinct, I'd say.
And seeing more standard collections adopt it or more unique collections adopt it and adopt it successfully is, you know, definitely in the cards.
Hopefully that answers the question.
Yeah, no, I think that was super helpful. One follow-up, if I could. You know, Control, I'd love to hear about the full story of how we got here.
I saw you had a post talking about your conversations with unnamed Emerald Dev.
Oh, God. No, your name's Eric.
Okay. Well, I didn't want to say it, but it'd be great to hear you actually talk about the origin story for people who haven't seen that throughout.
Sure. So I don't want to get too into it because I don't want to, you know, turn this into like a shit flinging thing, but I'll go over it briefly.
So basically, it seems like half of like anything I've ever built or like started in crypto somehow starts with me getting rugged and getting pissed off.
But this is basically the same thing.
There was a project that launched called Emerald that a lot of people aped into me and CERN and ACME aped into me and me and CERN were very down bad.
So anyways, we bought into this project because it seemed kind of interesting.
It was like, hey, like you buy a token and like it's this NFT thing.
And when I saw it, I was like, yo, like CERN, we need to buy this.
Like we need to buy a fuckload of these because, you know, what I had seen was basically the vision for like what is now ERC 404.
Like I thought about it and I was like, wait, what if they keep developing and they turn it into this and, you know, like this could be like a very new thing and this is the first of its kind.
And it turns out that it was not the first of its kind.
You know, I didn't look at anything before I bought in.
But when ACME saw the contract, he was like, you guys are idiots.
Like this is fucking terrible.
Anyways, I ended up getting exploited because the contract doesn't work at all.
And me and CERN lost a lot of fucking money.
And then I was like, man, like this was such a good idea.
Like if it works, like there is an idea here that I don't think that the dev even realizes he has.
So let me reach out to him and, you know, let's see if we can fix this because, you know, immediately the first thing that came to our mind is like how do we do this better because there is really some value here.
But we didn't want to jump to that.
I was like, I don't want some guy to be like, oh, you stole my idea.
I was like, hey, man, a lot of people lost a lot of fucking money.
I don't even think you guys made that much money, especially if you got exploited.
So like, how can we help basically offered to fix it for free partially to save our bags.
And like, that's how I dragged me into this.
I was like, hey, here's a software engineer that worked at Coinbase that's built amazing stuff in the space that really knows what he's doing.
Like this is literally like one of the best devs you can probably have for this for free.
Like, let's just please fix this.
And the guy was basically just like, no, we're going to relaunch.
We're going to relaunch in like 10 minutes.
And I was like, this is fucking retarded.
Like, you're going to get exploit again.
Like, please listen to us.
And he was like, no, because I'm poor.
I'm like, I don't know you guys.
And like, I need to relaunch.
I'm like, I need to pay rent.
And I was like, what the fuck?
I was like, this guy is basically rugging you guys because he's prioritizing the fact that he's poor over like launching something safe.
And it literally just got exploited.
And then he relaunched it and people bought it and it got exploited again.
But yeah, as soon as we realized that he wasn't going to listen and that if we didn't build it, then that probably would have just gotten rugged.
And then, you know, the idea would have been kind of just forgotten about.
We were like, OK, like we need to show people what this can actually be.
And we got to work on this right away.
Does that does that make sense?
Yeah, I just want to say I'm really.
Now, I was kind of thinking maybe for something, an idea that could add a lot of value in the morning.
Wondering if you guys have thought about visiting like a platform where people can launch these NFTs and where you basically have the AMM and the open C.
Well, we've we've absolutely thought about this.
So I guess something that we are kind of struggling with internally is that like there's a lot of there's a lot of opportunity here.
Right. Like and that it's it's for us, for other builders, like, you know, for you guys.
But, you know, we are trying to figure out like we're scrambling to try to work as fast and as hard as we can to make sure that we deliver on both fronts.
Because like on one hand, we've got our own project and there's something we can do there.
And people are like, hey, like, you know, Pandora can be this like Pandora can be that.
And I think we know for the most part exactly what we want it to be and where we're taking it.
And that's going to be something really great.
But then on the other hand, there's like the infra side of things, which is, you know, as you're saying, like who's going to build more tools to allow people to use this?
And the iteration of like what a launchpad what enabling other people to make these really is is we made sure when designing this to design it like it was an actual standard to make sure that the code is clean and commented that there's documentation.
So that's already something that exists. I will pin that to the to the space if anybody's not familiar with that.
But yeah, there is already a GitHub where people can go.
I just pinned the thread to the space so you can see that up at the top.
Anybody can already go and use this and build the ERC 404.
Now in terms of tooling, as you're saying, you know, like a launchpad, like for people to make their own, etc.
That's one thing that we're trying to figure out right now is like, do we also try and go even further and try to really fully commit to building infra for this building tooling for creators for developers for people who aren't developers that still want to use the tech.
So to answer your question, like, I think it's a great idea. I think that we have a lot of ideas on, you know, kind of what can be built with this to incentivize other people other protocols to use it and also just create new protocols.
And yeah, we are going to do as much of that as we can. And for the stuff that we think we need to see in the space that we aren't going to have the bandwidth to do.
We will probably try to make sure that the people who are the best fit for the job possible are the people who are doing that first.
That being said, we are expanding the team.
I mentioned at the start, there is a guy who's been very active in the telegram, who's been very helpful. He is in the space. I don't know if he wants to come up and speak, but if he does, he can request.
But he's somebody who reached out very early, who's, you know, a super competent dev, clearly, from what I've seen already, has a lot of experience in the space in DeFi.
And we're really excited to bring on. So hopefully the more people like that that exist, the more we'll be able to do. And the quicker we'll be able to flesh out this whole token standard.
Okay, thanks a lot, man. I appreciate the question. Lexi, what's up?
Okay, AFK. Does anybody else want to come up? Or does anybody already up have anything else they want to add?
If no one else wants to ask something, I was curious if you can talk a bit about, because I know you've been teasing in the telegram, like what different people's opinions are, once they understand the token standard.
And I'm curious, like, on the business side, what kind of conversations are you guys having? What are your kind of plans? You know, you mentioned something about like a project building on the token standard,
like, I don't know, different integrations or different, like other significant protocols that people know about their inquiry and want to implement the token standard or just work with you?
Great question. So, you know, it's something that I've said before, even like from like, I hate this word, but, you know, like a KOL perspective, because people are like, hey, get KOLs, get KOLs, pump the token.
We are all, for the most part, really well connected in the space. So, you know, KOLs, protocols, like, you know, all this shit, like, we know all these people, for the most part, like, these guys are like, you know, people we're friends with, we have past like relationships with, we've worked on stuff together with before.
So that's no problem. Most of them are already aware of this. A lot of people have already hit me up over the past couple of days, they're like, hey, man, like, you know, like, do you want me to like show this? And I'm like, no, wait, right?
If we, if we want, you know, all of that type of shit, then like, that's no problem. But we're trying to do everything at the right time.
So yeah, like, on the biz dev side, both with like, you know, big influencers and stuff that people are like, hey, like, you should tell this guy about this, like, most of them probably know.
And I've talked to a lot of them about this, and they think it's cool. In terms of actual biz dev with other protocols, with, you know, bigger projects, a lot of that's been happening, too.
It's obviously one of those things that like is not really fully at my discretion to share. I don't want to tie any names into this until anything is actually inked.
But we've talked to a lot of different teams behind like a lot of different protocols and dapps that you guys would recognize about what we're doing about how it might benefit them. A lot of them have approached us and asked if we want x or y done if they want to integrate us for this or that.
So a lot of that stuff is going to be happening. What we're trying to figure out right now is exactly who and, you know, what we want to allocate resources to partnering with or integrating with or building first.
Because obviously, obviously, that's going to decide how people perceive what this even is.
Like, if we go and we do a bunch of shit and defy first with defy protocols, and they're going to be like, Oh, it's a defy thing. If we go and work with pudgy penguins and Azuki and blah, blah, blah, then like we're firmly in NFTs.
And like, this has a lot of applications. So we want to maneuver it in a way that doesn't give people any preconceived notions and shows, you know, like the full breadth of the spectrum of I guess what this can do and what its potential is.
Well, sorry, one quick follow up with an idea just popped up. Are you because obviously there's the token standard and then there's the Pandora project, right? Like, they don't necessarily like separately.
They're two separate things. But will you look to like, I don't know, look for like you. I don't want to see utility of the token or is there something for like people who want your help or your support or want to implement the stack?
Sorry, I understood all of that, except for the end there. Will we look for what?
To use like to for the token, like the Pandora token to have some sort of utility or like have these partners like purchase, I don't like the token and exchange for your supporters. I don't know, just like that to like, kind of like tie them together.
It is something like that. Yeah. And I mean, like, see, that's the thing is like, there have been a lot of people who are like, hey, like you guys have a perfect excuse to launch another token here. And it's like, well, we don't really want to do that, obviously, because we have Pandora going here.
At the same time, like Pandora is not a thing that we're like looking for, like a utility or like a reason for it to have value. Like we've already decided on a few like there's already a lot that we're doing with this.
So, you know, like it's not like one thing can't be everything, right? We can't make it like a utility token for a protocol and an NFT collection and not going to say what that is.
But yeah, like, you know, that's that's something we're trying to figure out. But in short, I guess, like, while that's something that we determine, like, unofficially, yes, like, that's pretty much how a lot of people are seeing it.
Every like protocol or team, etc, that's hit us up. And that is more interested in the tech itself, like the ERC 404. They have also like without us telling them that they need to like they bought a bag of Pandora, you know, or they've been like, hey, like, how do I get my hands on like, whatever, like, let me OTC a bunch of money worth and you know, like, like, they're all very eager to get their hands on it.
So, yeah, I think that without us even having to make that a requirement, like the people who believe in the tech believe in the first mover as well.
Does that does that make sense? Yeah, thanks. Sorry, I forgot to reply. Yeah, thank you. Thank you.
Does anybody else want to come up? Or does anybody else already up have anything they want to add?
Okay. Um, Acme, is there anything that you want to add? Or do you want me to just take off?
No, I'm good. Feel free to go for it.
Okay, cool. So, yeah, I guess the segue in terms of people who are going to be building using ERC 404, which I guess is the current topic.
There is something that we can announce here. So that's exciting. I have asked for, you know, permission to share this because obviously it's something that, you know, we just spoke about when I woke up like an hour or two before this.
But it is exciting, because we're glad that, you know, the first person doing something with the ERC 404 that we know of is someone that, you know, I personally was already familiar with, you know, that's done some cool stuff in the space.
So I know he'll do something exciting. But that is CFW. So I will pin a tweet from him to the space. I'll do that right now.
Because he's been in the telegram and he's reached out, and he's excited about the tech. So, you know, I said I was like, Hey, man, like you've built successful projects, you should do something with this.
And I think that there's a lot that artists can do with this. Because, you know, if you guys have been around for a while, if you think about people like Pac, for example, or, you know, somebody maybe less recognized, but still very popular.
That's one of my favorites, who, by the way, I've also shared this with is rip cash. You know, I've approached some of these artists, like people like Jack Butcher, for example, and I'm like, you know, you guys make interactive, like experimental, you know, like art projects that also interface with blockchain tech, like this is something you can do something cool with.
And CFW has already whipped up a concept for that. I'm gonna pin that tweet right now. There, there it is. So, yeah, this is a tweet he put out a little bit ago for something that he was working on that he was trying to find, you know, find his like desired style of execution for.
And it seems like he's decided to, you know, work with the ERC 404 standard for that. He's asked me not to give away anything about the project's concept for now. So I'm not going to do that. But I am excited for what he's making. I think it'll be really cool. And I'm glad that people will be able to see other things you can do with the ERC 404, and not just what we're doing.
So check out the pin tweet, give him a follow if you don't already follow him. And if you don't know who he is, check out some of his old work, because he's definitely somebody who I'd consider to be, you know, more of an OG, somebody who's been around for a while, somebody who is respected by other artists as well.
And of course, as I said earlier, like we're going to be helping him as much as possible throughout and offering whatever support we can.
So that being said, if you want to make the third ERC 404 project ever created, then you should probably reach out now because hopefully we see a lot more of this in the next week or so.
If anybody else wants to come up, we can take a few requests.
I see a couple people in the audience who have been around a lot in the telegram and who have had a lot of really interesting insights. I don't want to pressure anyone to come up if you don't like speaking, but Damien, cryptic, etc.
It would be cool to hear from any of you guys if you have anything you want to talk about, or if anybody just wants to share some of their thoughts on, you know, what you can do with this, what they're excited about for Pandora, what they think you could do with ERC 404, that would be cool too.
This also puts us at a pretty good spot to cut it off if everybody feels like we're all settled because it's been almost exactly an hour. It's been about an hour and 10 minutes. So I think that's a pretty good runtime.
I had one thing to add. I just wanted to say that what Control and ACME are doing with Pandora is unprecedented and it's the most egalitarian thing we've ever seen. It's insanely ambitious and if it works, it can really reshape the fabric of society. Thank you.
Okay, to add to that, can we please add CERN to that copy pasta moving forward because I feel bad for the guy. Everybody leaves him out.
Bro, I'm gonna cry about this.
I mean, do you want to speak for like five minutes before we get off? Because maybe the issue, maybe the reason is because we literally are never talking.
I'm a terrible public speaker, but...
Yeah, what CERN, ACME, and Control are doing with Pandora is extremely exciting. It's reshaping the fabric for society, ambitious, egalitarian, blah, blah, blah. Thank you.
Okay, that's probably a good place to wrap it up. Thank you a ton to everybody who listened to us for like an hour.
Yeah, this was great. So we're gonna keep shipping. We're gonna open the Discord really soon here.
We're gonna be pushing an announcement right after this about what we've been teasing for why it's taken a little bit for us to make that Discord and what you're gonna be able to do in there.
ACME, actually, do you want to share a little bit about that right now or do you want to do a text announcement for that? How are you feeling?
I think we might want to do a text announcement since a couple of things are still in the words, but it's coming soon.
There's definitely a couple of new things that haven't been announced or touched on yet, but I do think you guys will find pretty exciting relating to Discord and, you know, inventory on the web launch. So, yeah.
Would you say more gamification?
Soon post Discord and more art teasers will come out. You guys will have a better idea of what the NFTs will be. So there's that as well.
Amazing. Okay. All right. Well, then that gives us a really good stopping point to go and get back to work. So, yeah. Thanks a lot, everybody. Really great questions.
Good AMA. And I'm glad that we're forming a pretty big brain community. So this is awesome.
All right. We'll definitely do another one of these, by the way, because I'm sure there will be a whole nother, you know, kind of myriad of questions once we push things a little bit further in the next couple of days.
So what is it? Is it Saturday or Sunday? I don't know what. Okay. It's Sunday. That's crazy. So, yeah, we will probably do another one of these. I don't know. Maybe even as soon as the next 48 hours, whatever the demand is. If you want to see another one, let us know.
Next one will probably be in the Discord because we've kind of done one in the Telegram. We just did one on spaces. So, yeah, once we post that link on Twitter and TG, make sure to join and we'll be sharing more in Telegram for now. Thanks again, guys.
Thanks, everyone. Thanks, guys.