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Partner Spotlight - Allora: A Personal and Protocol Perspective with Michael Zacharski
Recorded: July 10, 2025 Duration: 1:20:51Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, Michael Zakarski of Allura Network unveiled exciting developments in the crypto space, including the upcoming mainnet launch of their predictive AI platform, strategic partnerships with Anchor, and the integration of AI agents for enhanced yield generation. As the industry shifts towards AI-driven solutions, Allura aims to become a leader in financial forecasting, promising to revolutionize how users interact with DeFi protocols.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, it looks like the X-Space is not working super well, once again.
I don't know, Are we having issues?
Are you there, Mike?
Yeah, can you hear me?
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can.
Awesome.
Let me just check.
Yeah, I've been having some trouble onboarding my personal account um don't know how it was on
your side seamless on my end oh okay um let me just check real real quick some settings and uh
yeah once we are done um we can kick things off. Sounds great. All right, yes, looks like everything's fine, finally.
How have you been doing, Mike?
Is everything all right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've been doing good.
Just down here in Texas, celebrated the 4th of July, had a good weekend.
It was kind of rainy all weekend, but always one of the best holidays.
Anytime you can get a long weekend during the summer, I'm not going to complain.
Yeah, of course.
How's the situation over there, by the way?
Where I'm at in Austin, it wasn't affected too bad.
I think maybe an hour outside of town
uh towards san antonio uh we started yeah there's some flooding uh yeah quite tragic uh it's a bit
in the news maybe even like international news but luckily where i'm at um everything's fine
some streets got flooded but nothing too bad oh Oh, OK. Good, good, good.
Yeah, we read in the news it has recently been impacted.
And well, from all of us over here, we send in some friends and our best wishes to everyone affected.
Yeah, we hope everything goes back normal soon.
Ousting, I believe, is home to so many builders, right?
Craves and also Web3 communities.
I think you guys also hosted some events in Texas, right?
Yeah.
We haven't had anything in about uh two years was it um so yeah we used to
host consensus every year uh we had oh yeah here about uh two years back but they're actually
redoing the convention center in austin uh started two years ago and i think it's a three-year
project uh they're putting close to two billion dollars into it. So it's going to be an amazing venue once it's done.
But yeah, there's been nothing really here
for the past two years, probably not another year.
But I expect once that renovation is complete,
people are going to be blocking back.
But in terms of like builders,
I would say New York's probably the hub in the United States,
if not like the world in the United States, if not the world
in terms of Web3 talent.
But I'd say Austin's
probably number two.
You can make a debate
if San Francisco
would be number two. I think San Francisco,
you have a lot of Web2 folks,
you have a lot of AI folks, but when it comes to
just pure Web3, I would
say Austin probably has the second biggest community just behind new york
oh nice good to know um i hope i can visit sometime um we're a little bit far away from
texas barbecue oh nice yeah we're a little bit far away you know partific ocean but uh
yeah i've always wanted to visit and uh hopefully you know in the
future and yeah um well thanks thanks for that intro uh mike now we know a little bit more about
about austin about texas and yeah i think oh we have uh we have some listeners already joining
um i think we can kick things off what do you think mike let's do it
nice so um hi everyone and um welcome back to another episode of the anchor partner spotlight
series where well we sit down with the minds you know shaping web3 to explore projects people's for projects, people, possibilities, driving the next way of innovation.
Today we're joined by someone who sits right at the intersection
of innovation and execution, Michael Zakarski.
Mike for all the folks here.
And he's the head of go-to-market at Allora Network.
And I'm really curious about that position by the
way mike i'm definitely gonna you know ask you about it um allora is a decentralized intelligence
layer designed to deliver self-improving ai forecasts for crypto communities i hope that
definition is on spot um protocols and markets but uh yeah this episode isn't just about the protocol it's
also about the person helping bring it to the to the world and well mike welcome to the show we are
really really glad to have you here yeah really happy to be here thanks so much for the invite looking forward to today's uh conversation same likewise sir um what do you
think about starting from a introduction to whoa who's mike uh so yeah i'm mike i had to go to
market over here at allura labs uh joined the team about a year and a half ago um and prior to that
i was over at chainlink labs for three years, led the strategic business development team over there. And then even prior to that, I was at a Web2 company. If anyone's familiar with like Zillow and eBay, you can think about it like those two platforms had a baby. We were selling commercial real estate through an online auction format.
had a baby. We were selling commercial real estate through an online auction format.
Joined that company when it was very small. It was about 20 employees. The company did really
well. We ended up getting a $50 million investment from Capital G, which was Google's venture capital
arm. We were actually the first investment they ever made. The company blew up to like 1500 employees, uh, got sold to private equity for 1.6, uh, billion.
Um, and then kind of, you know, the slash and burn happened, you know, typical when private
equity buys a company, but yeah, I got to see like the whole life cycle of a web two unicorn.
Uh, but yeah, that feels like a past life now, uh, since I've been in web three professionally
for a little bit over five years now.
Right nice um I can um I can assure you all what he said is true I've been stalking a little bit
uh Mike's LinkedIn um well just trying to get to know our guests a little better um mike i was particularly
interested if you don't mind the question um that's so you graduated from a bachelor in science and
then risk management and marketing and i'm sorry i forgot the name right now i don't have it written
down oh man you really did your homework yeah i had two majors i had risk management and insurance
and another one that was marketing with a focus on sales i was really curious about um you know what
made to like make that decision you know studying um risk management and then marketing. So I guess funny, but actually not that funny of a story.
You know, I went to Florida State, went there because my brother went there.
I visited when I was maybe like 15 and I was like, this place is awesome.
If you're not from America, Florida State has a little bit of a reputation as like,
you know, party school and, you know, big college football program.
And I joke around, like I'm the smartest kid that ever went to Florida State. You know,
my test scores were well above a lot of my peers. But if I'm going to Florida State,
might as well do what they're best at. And they actually had a top three insurance program nationally. So.
Fell into that. They also had like 100% of graduates with risk
management insurance degrees got jobs right out of college. I
was graduating right around the recession, so I had a lot of my
peers weren't able to get jobs. They had to go back, get their
masters, go to law school.
So just kind of like fell into it through just, hey, the school's really good at this. I might as well do it. But I'd say after about nine months of working professionally in insurance
outside of college, I quickly realized this isn't what I wanted to do for the next 35,
40 years of my life. It's just not that interesting of work. Around that time, I'd say it's like,
yeah, 2010 or so. The iPhone had just come out. Apps started being like a big thing. And that's
when I realized, like, I want to do something in tech. Like, this is what actually interests me.
This is something that I can get out of bed in the morning and like look forward to actually working on. So that's where I started.
But yeah, like I said, quickly realized that wasn't what I wanted to do with the rest of my
life and found a way to pivot into what I found was like cool cutting edge and something that
I don't mind working on and actually, you know, really enjoy working on.
All right. Nice. Interesting. Yeah. Thank you, Mike, for sharing that part of your life with us.
Right. And I think this would be very helpful for those who are, you know, still choosing.
Well, I don't know what they're called now bachelor or um great or uh because they keep changing names
you know um but i keep having this conversation with um my well my younger brother you know but
also um friends of my younger brother and and they just think one they have once they have made the
choice of studying a certain degree starting um bachelor or call college whatever you know they they just they won't be able to change
anything after that like they they must work on a on an industry that's related to you know what
they've studied and actually it doesn't necessarily have to be the case you know like um I think this
is a perfect example that you can always pivot and it can well play out really well um so i guess that's what in the end drew you
into the world of crypto and ai mike and was it like a super clear leap or um some of our of a
slow drift uh i would say getting into crypto definitely definitely a slow drift. So actually first learned about crypto, I'd say around like 2011 is right around Christmas.
Wow, that's early.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, the story's not as great as you might think.
So, yeah, it was one of the first like trips I ever took when I graduated college.
I went and visited one of my friends from high school.
He was living in Brooklyn at the time.
And this was like the smartest kid that I knew.
Got a perfect score on his SATs.
Went to a really great college here called Georgia Tech.
Ended up working for Google and went into his room.
And he had like these four computers that were all daisy chained together.
And I asked him like, Anthony, like, what are you doing? You're throwing a land party here
or something. And he's like, no, I'm mining this thing called Bitcoin. I'm like, Bitcoin,
what's that? And so he proceeds to tell me, you know, all about Bitcoin. But this was always like
the guy, you know, smart, like I said, smartest guy that I knew. But he always had like that get rich quick scheme like thing, like ruined his mind.
Like every summer is like, hey, we're going to go door to door and sell knives to our neighbors or we're going to do this thing.
And it's always like, man, you always got these like crazy ideas to make a bunch of money real quick, but they're always kind of bad ideas.
I was like, you know, what's Bitcoin backed by?
He's like, well, nothing. It's backed by the blockchain. And I'm like, yeah, man, I'm out,
but I'm happy for you. But that kind of put it on my radar. There's this thing out there called
Bitcoin, and I'd follow it in the news here and there. It ran up a bunch, and I'm like, I'm an
idiot. I should have listened to Anthony. Then it went down a bunch and I'm like, see, I knew I was right the whole time.
And then by the time like 2017 rolled around, uh, I think, you know, there's probably like two
cycles that had happened at that point. And I was just thinking like, man, uh, I need to get
off the sidelines. Like I, I know what this thing does. It goes up a bunch, it goes down a bunch,
but then it goes up a bunch. And right now it's looking like
it's going up a bunch. So I want to start getting involved. Um, I want to learn about this as much
as I possibly can. Uh, and that's how I got into crypto. Uh, you know, just, uh, around like,
say spring of 2017 really started diving in was a Monero maxi actually is my uh
oh Monero yeah that was like the first coin I was ever like a fan of I fell for the meme of like
like well why would I want the pizza guy to know what my like balance is in my wallet like I don't
want him to know how much money I have like that, that doesn't make sense to me. Monero with his privacy. Okay. This makes a lot more sense.
Didn't work out so well. But then going back to my buddy, Anthony, you know, asked him, Hey man,
like you've been doing this forever. Like what are you getting into these days? And he said,
what are you getting into these days? And he said, Oh, well, I'm getting into this thing called XRB.
It's called Ryblox. Oh, okay. I think I saw that on the exchange before. I appreciate it. I'm
going to buy some. So ended up getting my paycheck, wired it over to the exchange, saw that it hit,
zoomed home from work. It was very eager, had an itchy trigger finger, and I was thinking, all right, XRB, let's go buy some.
Scrolling down the list, XRB, XRB, XRB.
Well, there's an XRP.
What's that?
So just Google XRP real quick.
And it's like XRP is the coin of Ripple. Ripple aims to replace
Swift, which is the global bank's payment provider that transfers over $10 billion of value a year,
$10 trillion of value a year, whatever that number is. I'm like, oh, that sounds lucrative.
And just like you bought it on a whim. It was like 25 cents at that time. About a month and a half later,
it just absolutely moons. It goes to like $3.50. I'm like, holy shit. Actually surpassed the market
cap of ETH at that time. It was like kind of the great flippening of its day. And I told my wife
that I'm like, hey, remember that token I bought like a couple months ago like it's gone up a bunch like I need to sell this my wife goes no I had a dream like what do
you mean she was I had a dream it went to nine dollars I'm like that would be crazy it would be
bigger than bitcoin at that point she's like well that's what my dream was I'm like all right
I'll hold it again for today it went down like 25 that day i sold it but you know came out with a a pretty good win there and that's pretty much what got me hooked
into crypto oh yeah definitely i mean that was that was an amazing win um you have actually
unlocked some some memories mike uh like from me for me i mean um i i i was like i just quickly googled xrb rayblocks
because i was like this sounds familiar but i'm i'm not sure why and then that's nano
yeah yeah that's how it used to be called you know what was the original name of it
yeah and and i was just like oh damn okay uh now i remember i um still remember a like how i got my my first
nano or previously xrp um a friend of mine super smart as well he told me about about nano um and
i was like okay what's that and you know i did an intro or not and i was like okay where do i buy it
and i faced the very same uh problem and back then it wasn't as easy, right, Mike? Yep. Um,
and he was like, you know what? I have some nano, um, create a wallet.
I'm going to send you some, I don't remember the, the amount,
I think it was one or two. And he was like,
but you have to promise me you will hold this forever. Um, I'm still holding it,
but I mean, I got my keys somewhere in my old um laptop i don't
even dare you know not selling it or or wiping it out because i don't know where the key is stored
um but yeah i'm still holding and probably will hold forever um yeah thanks for unlocking that
the memory uh like and well yeah i mean it's always super interesting
how personal curiosity or you know um timing can open up entirely new chapters um especially in a
space like this one moves so so fast and yeah we joined at a similar time i actually joined a q4 2017 kind of late um you know back then i think the ico bubble started
to burst um but well still i learned a lot by um you know by getting wrecked uh but i mean
these are the best lessons and well time you lose money you learn lessons very very fast
and well time you lose money you learn lessons very very fast yeah definitely can relate um
luckily at the time i i didn't have a lot of money and you know um it was quite painful
but still um lesson learned and i haven't you know i haven't lost a lot ever since
which is good and well well, building on that,
Mike, what's something you have
learned about yourself since
stepping into the Web3
industry, the Web3 world, you know?
I don't know, maybe a
mindset shift, a skill you had
to develop? Yeah, I mean,
I've leveled up a bunch of skills, but I'd say like, yeah,
mindset shift, probably like the
number one thing,
taught me to be maybe a bit more comfortable with the degenerate side of myself.
I'd say growing up, I was very conservative when it came to risk.
My dad was an accountant, so those are not very like risk focused individuals. You know,
went to Florida State, did a major that I, you know, was very safe, you know, okay, this is the
best major that I can possibly take at this school. So I'm going to do that. And just didn't
really take on a lot of risks. Like, hence, like, you know, my friend was telling me about Bitcoin
in 2011. And instead of listening to him, I just, you know, basically fudded it in my mind and was like, yeah, that's stupid.
I'm not going to listen.
But, you know, being in crypto, having like a biggish win early on.
And then, of course, like DeFi summer rolled around summer of 2020.
And I saw, you know, all my, yeah,
I was very, very into like the chain link community at the time. Like still am, I love chain link. Um,
but you know, saw all these friends that were making all this money in DeFi summer. And at
first I thought, you know, you, you, it has like, you guys are stupid, like you're gambling with your link. Like, why are you doing that?
And, you know, just saw the amount of, you know,
yield that they were able to generate during those, like, very early days.
I was like, you know what?
I'm going to do this.
I'm going to jump it in.
And I was late to DeFi summer.
And the first thing that I ever bought was this token called Pylon.
If you look up Pylon, there's other pylons.
It's not going to be the same Pylon that I bought, but it's like my first foray into DeFi.
It's supposed to be tokenized Ethereum proof-of-work mining or something,
but all my friends that were doing really well, they're like,
hey, this is the next one that we're jumping into.
So I bought, and within, I would say, 30 minutes of me buying.
So I bought and then I helped my brother learn Uniswap and taught him to buy.
And within 30 minutes of us actually buying, the whole thing rugged.
And we lost everything.
It was down 99% within a couple of seconds.
And after that, DeFi Summer just died.
And so I was there like, oh, man, of course, as soon as I get in, it's too late.
But then Uniswap did their airdrop not too long after.
And I was able to actually take that Uniswap airdrop, convert it to ETH.
actually take that Uniswap airdrop, convert it to ETH.
Market started turning around.
And then I turned that airdrop into like a good amount of capital again.
And then Avalanche, they had Avalanche Rush.
I got very involved with that.
Had some like really big wins during like 2021.
And it got me a lot more comfortable with just stepping outside my comfort zone of like being very, very risk averse to being OK with risk and realizing like, you know, you're going to have some losses, but you're going to have some wins and you're going to have some really big wins as well.
And if you look at a professional gambler, this is a real statistic, like even the best sports bettors in the world, the amount that they win is around 55% to 56%. So it's not like they're going in and they want to, you know, or like, if you want to make money, you got to be able to
be willing to take some risk. You can't just like live your life being like, very, very conservative,
always doing the most conservative thing possible, like not trying to say like, you know, there's
anything wrong with that. And of course, like, you know, you shouldn't go fully like off the deep end and be extremely degenerate. Like, you know, there should be a
balance, but I'd say, you know, if you feel like you don't take on a lot of risk and you just kind
of live your life on the sidelines and are looking at others and be like, you know, those guys are
stupid. Like I'm the smart one because I'm conservative. Like, you know, maybe take some
capital that you don't mind losing. Treat it like a casino where if I lose all this money, I'm not going to be too upset about it.
But, you know, let's have some fun. And I think, you know, that's what crypto like provides a lot
of people. There's obviously a lot of great benefits to just the technology of blockchain
itself, the transparency that it can provide. And I think it's going to be the technology of blockchain itself the transparency uh that it can provide and you know
i think it's going to be the payment rails of the future um like genuinely but um yeah i think you
know a lot of people could probably like learn that lesson uh is you know step outside your comfort
zone uh take on a little bit more risk have a little bit more fun and you might just be surprised
with the results that you get yeah that's such a good point um and well i think web3 you know well and
crypto blockchain you know can really stretch people in ways they didn't expect i think i'm
definitely one of them um i've always been kind of conservative mike so uh and whoa look at me
um i think i couldn't agree more and yeah and this comes from a professional risk
manager just like um but yeah sometimes you know for the better i i think in in our case you know
it's for the better and as you said um if you you know just put some money that you feel comfortable losing and that'll be it may of
course um do your own research um know where you're investing in and yeah what happens you
know happens um it's a lesson right as uh as we were discussing um a couple of minutes ago and
yeah so um and mike when you're're not forecasting the future of decentralized intelligence, you know, or getting it to market, how do you unplug?
Do you have any hobbies, you know, rituals that help you stay grounded?
I would say, yeah, probably my guilty pleasure is golf, actually. I try to golf every weekend.
I actually built a golf simulator in my backyard about a year ago.
There's a lot of crypto guys in Austin that all golf.
So good way to just network with people around town as well.
That's probably my hobby.
My wife kind of hates it because I'm gone six hours a day during the weekend.
But if there's anywhere that I could be besides working on Elora, you could probably find me out on a golf course.
Tried my best to look like Tiger Woods.
Yeah, I love that.
It's refreshing to hear how people stay balanced you know and
um you're literally touching grass on the weekends literally yeah um and well of course you know
especially when working tech can feel so always on like um especially in crypto right we're 24 7
on like um especially in crypto right we're 24 7. um it's it's own all day all night um so nice nice
thanks for um sharing that with us mike um one quick question though um what does a go-to-market
you know what does the head of go-to-market do um you know daily
daily.
Yeah.
Can you hear me?
Hello?
Yeah, we can hear you.
Go to market, that basically means
taking the product to market,
finding product market fit.
So that's really like leading
business development, sales
strategy, a little bit of marketing
growth as well.
So a bit like all encompassing
for the non-technical aspects of a protocol.
For the more technical aspects of the protocol,
that falls on solutions, engineering, research,
but for stuff that's non-technical related,
sales growth strategy,
a little bit of marketing, that would fall under my purview.
Wow. It feels like you're in the intersection of literally everything.
Yeah. It does feel that way sometimes.
Yeah. I mean, it was definitely interesting.
I have, you know, it's the first time i i hear
about this role so uh yeah i had this question it just came to my mind um sorry i am you know
it wasn't on my list um because i i don't know why to be honest i've i wanted to ask since i was
preparing like our well my you know my questions list and yeah sorry sorry about that
you know um super random sudden question man um and yeah um a more relaxed one more fun one now
if we had a look at your screen time stats or maybe not the screen time you know just
um what's probably be anybody on screen time uh i think like every sunday i get
a notification from my phone it's like you averaged seven hours and 21 minutes of screen time this
week oh yeah um yeah what's something you're you know currently reading watching obsessing over um crypto and non-crypto
both uh crypto i would say anything that's like crypto xai especially agent related uh i find it
fascinating um yeah i think we'll probably dive into that in the second part of this interview
uh but uh i'm habitually on twitter scrolling. I have a couple alt accounts as well.
So you may have interacted with me before and never even knew it. But yeah, I've been addicted
to crypto Twitter since like probably 2018, before crypto Twitter was even really a thing like it is
today. So when it comes to crypto, that's my guilty pleasure is just scrolling through the timeline,
shitposting with the best of them.
Just love the community, love the vibes.
It's addicting.
I feel like if you're in this audience, you probably know exactly what I'm talking about.
And then if we're talking about something non-crypto that I've been obsessing over,
I'm going to have to like fall back to golf.
Been obsessed with putting for quite a bit.
And just going down the rabbit hole in terms of like what,
what could be done with putters in terms of like technology.
I think there's a lot of tech out there that is scientifically sound,
but major manufacturers, they're mostly focused on mass production, mass appeal. So they don't
really take a lot of risks in terms of innovation where it's like, hey, this thing, it might be
scientifically better, but it looks weird or you have to use it in a non-standard way.
It looks weird or you have to use it in a nonstandard way.
And we don't know how much appeal that's going to have.
So it's not a conservative business decision.
I would love to find some time to have a CNC machine and just be able to tinker and invent new styles of putters. I think there's a lot of room for innovation there where just
the state of the market hasn't caught up with technology and science and there's a lot more
room for improvement. So if this crypto thing doesn't work out or one day, I call it quits
from crypto and want to move on, that's probably what you'll find me doing in my garage.
Always finding something new to push to the market, right?
Yeah.
Solid one.
Yeah, no judgment.
By the way, we've all got that one something we fall into way too easily.
And well, in Mike's case, it seems to be golf.
Golf and money, man.
Oh yeah, double putting, of course.
Well, I should be asking, but I think I'm just going to assume.
If you weren't working in tech or crypto, do you think you would be a professional golf player?
No way.
No way.
I'm not that good.
When it comes to putting, I'd actually love to challenge a professional golfer to a putting contest.
I think I could hold my own, but then every other part of my game, I would absolutely get smoked by a professional.
Probably doing, like I said, inventing some sort of like new technology for golf.
Always love pushing the boundaries.
That's what gets me out of bed is doing new exciting things that haven't been done before
that people like either don't realize or that they've overlooked.
But in my head, like this makes sense.
It's scientifically sound and backed by data.
And then being able to produce that, like that's always what's been like really interesting for me.
Like going back to when I was working in Web2, you know, started a company that was
around 20 employees, but really got sold on the idea.
And, you know, they did have a good amount of early success even before I joined.
But, you know, so like, hey, this is the future of the way that people are going to be
transacting real estate.
Like I'm all in.
Um, and yeah, like that company ended up doing really well and they were really pushing the
boundaries in terms of innovation.
Uh, you know, became obsessed with chain link as one of like the first tokens that I really
got, you know, tribal and became a maximalist about.
And, uh, yeah, had that even when I was working in Web2.
Like the final two, three years I was working in Web2, I was already obsessed with crypto.
It wasn't called Web3 at that time.
And I was like, my dream job is to work at Chainlink.
I was able to actually make that a reality two, three years later, and it was one of
the first business development hires that Chainlink ever
had. But working there and getting to be on the cutting edge and building a product that enabled
a lot of new, cool, unique use cases that people hadn't seen before, that was really exciting to me.
And then when the opportunity came to join up with the team at Allura,
it reminded me a lot of when I first heard about Chainlink of just, wow, this is mind-blowing.
This is something that I never thought of before, but now I'm immediately seeing how beneficial it
is and just all the ways that this thing could actually be used. And the addressable market of
this is just almost infinite. So that's really what drives me is being able to work on things that are really bleeding edge, that have a really good fit that people are going to see and get excited about.
That's what excites me is doing something new that other people are going to get excited about, too.
Right. Interesting.
Follow up quick question, because I think you have, have you know you've mentioned a lot of things you
probably would be doing um but do you think you would ever be back to risk management and insurance
no way no way uh okay i left that for a reason um yeah there's actually a lot of cool stuff you can
do um with parametric insurance like like insurance powered by smart contracts.
But insurance is probably one of the last industries to adopt it.
It's just a very slow-moving, very formal industry that's stuck in their old ways that date back to the 1700s.
like that date back to the 1700s.
Never say never,
but I think there's probably a hundred things
on my list before I would consider insurance again.
Right, interesting.
Yeah, thank you, Mike.
And well, now we all got to know Mike a little bit better.
We got to know part of his life story um i think it's
fair to give a laura also a little bit of uh you know of screen time well in this case we're doing
audio only and yeah so mike for folks who are listening you know and who might be hearing about
a laura for the first time um i don't think there will be many of them, to be really honest.
But how would you explain what Allura does in just a couple of sentences?
So you could think of Allura as like a predictive Oracle.
If you want the price of Bitcoin USD or ETH USD right now,
you would use something like Chainlink or you'd use Pith. But if you wanted the price of
what Bitcoin or ETH would be in an hour, a day, a week from now, you'd use Allura. And Allura is not
just for prices. It can be used for any sort of financial metrics. So it can be for price,
directionality, volatility, implied volatility, how much liquidity volume or fees are going to be in
implied volatility, how much liquidity volume or fees are going to be in some liquidity pool,
the APY of an LST and LRT or some underlying strategy, interest rates on lending protocols
for specific assets. So once you have these predictive primitives available, you can start
building a lot more sophisticated and dynamic use cases than what you currently see today within DeFi.
Okay. Okay. Thank you. That was clear and concise. Love it. And well, I think that paints a picture of where Allura fits into, let's say the broader web 3.
And yeah, I mean, if you think about it too, what's more valuable, knowing the present or knowing the future?
True. Yeah, thank you for that, Mike.
And well, another one is we've definitely seen a lot of AI hype recently, especially with, oh, I forgot the name um this team of three that uh meta has just hired
um you know they spend spend i don't know how many hundred millions yeah um to hire them um
damn i forgot the name i don't know why i keep forgetting names today mike sorry about that
um so yeah um alora's you's focus on self-improving forecasting
feels like something that's really deep.
And what do you think makes Alora's approach unique?
What's happening under the hood
that people might not see at first glance?
Yeah, so that's a great question.
That's kind of like where the magic lies.
So like most people today, like I'll back up, I'll give like a little bit of an overview and then I'll hone it down to like your specific question. But most people today, when they think about AI, they think of generative AI. You know, they think about chat GPT, LLMs, image generators, text to speech, all that. And all that's great, but really like the granddaddy, the OG of AI and machine learning use cases has been financial applications. AI has been used in banking trading for 30 plus years now. It's a much more mature part of the industry.
When you're doing these financial applications, if you use a single model, each model is going to have its own pros and cons.
It's things that it's good at. It's things that it's bad at.
Models inherently, one model may be good at predicting markets when they're highly volatile.
Some might be good in sideways markets, some in low volume, some in high volume, etc.
So what Allura does is it brings together
a network of multiple participants.
The two that I think are relevant here
are inference workers and forecasters.
So the inference workers,
those are parties that are running
disparate machine learning models
that are purpose-built for that defined objective
of the topic.
So these aren't just like LLMs.
LLMs are actually fundamentally very bad at doing any sort
of financial forecasting or it's called a time series prediction. They're very good at predicting
the next letter in a sentence. But if you ask them what the price of Bitcoin is going to be
tomorrow, they're going to take a shot in the dark and it's not going to be relevant.
Statistically, it's not going to provide you any sort of alpha. So you have these inference workers
that have these inference workers that have
these models that they built for that defined objective of forecasting the price of Bitcoin
in a desired timeframe. And they're submitting their inferences to the network. And then you
have another set of participants called forecasters. And those forecasters, they have
contextual awareness of what the current market conditions are, as well as the history of which models in that topic perform the best under similar market conditions in, and they use that to run a loss function against all the inferences that they received during that round to basically predict which of those predictions is going to
be the most accurate based on their historical accuracy under similar market conditions in the
past. So they use that information to then take all these different inferences from all these
different models and then create a single inference that's a weighted average of all of them.
And then that way you have a output from the network that consistently outperforms any
of the individual models within that topic.
So you get something that is greater than the sum of its parts.
And that's really where the magic lies.
If you're relying on just a single monolithic model, your model is not going to be able
to outperform something that is an ensemble
approach that uses multiple different models and then has a contextual awareness of which models
are going to be the best, most accurate models for these specific market conditions that we're
currently experiencing. Wow, okay. It's fascinating. As a friend of mine says i'm wordless um he says this because
when he say he when he wants to say he's speechless um yeah i i don't know to be honest the idea of
such a system that learns and adapts um i don't know if this is 100% accurate but um I think it's something that's um that what me
personally and I think many of us we're just beginning to wrap our heads around this um but
yeah I mean it sounds really interesting and I had no idea um that these more like kind of
generative AIs weren't as good you know when it comes to like reading um the market you know and and forecasting
um well definitely not gonna reveal them anymore um but yeah always i don't know always had this um
conversation right with chat gpt um gemini whatnot and um always i've always tried to look for
whatnot and um always i've always tried to look for some alpha but uh never managed to i guess
now i understand and yeah um next question i have is around um well from your gtm perspective um
what has been the biggest unlock or maybe surprise you know uh in bringing this to market so far yeah i'd say uh so
i joined last january so i've been working on allura for about a year and a half now and when
i first joined uh i think it was a lot of education um yeah i had a lot of relationships with uh
various d5 protocols various chains coming from my time at Chainlink. But I was talking to people about Allura, predictive inferences,
and it was not uncommon to hear crypto, very cool, AI, very cool.
Crypto XAI, it's like oil and water.
They just don't mix.
They just don't mix. There's not a lot of overlap between these two.
There's not a lot of overlap between these two.
And like anyone who's trying to make make that that fit is just not aware of what they're doing, you know, at best or their grifter at worst.
And I think that mentality has changed over time, especially like towards the end of last year.
Once we had agents like really the first generation of agents start to take off.
So I'd say earlier on, it was just educating different protocols in terms of like,
okay, AI isn't just chat GPT or image generators.
It's not what we're trying to do here.
What we can actually provide you is predictive inferences.
And if you have predictive inferences. And if you have
predictive inferences, think about what that can do in terms of your protocol mechanics.
You can make dynamic loan-to-value rates, dynamic liquidation factors. You can have
dynamic fees that take into account how much impermanent loss is expected to be experienced by
liquidity providers so they can get a better yield.
You can make strategies that are now actively trading assets because they have scientifically demonstrable alpha that instead of just saying,
all right, well, the current price is the price in the future, you now have an accurate prediction of what that price will be.
So you can do things like delta neutral trading, directional trading, leverage trading, and just
really open up the expressiveness of things that you can do within DeFi. So it unlocks not just
entirely new use cases, but it makes a lot of existing use cases like that much more effective and efficient as well.
So I think like that side of it was early on the challenge.
The challenge more so now, because when we speak with DeFi protocols these days, I'd say like 95% of those calls end with this sounds great.
When can we start testing it?
So that's been like a complete 180. I'd say the part now that's the trickier
of it is what we call the supply side. And that's basically onboarding model developers. So people
that are making time series prediction models for price, volatility, et cetera, of like different tokens. What you see with those machine learning developers is they really aren't very crypto focused.
For the most part, like crypto isn't their hobby.
When you tell them that, hey, we're building this protocol with, and it's going to be on
the blockchain, it's decentralized, you know,
they're guards up, you know, think about like your most normie friend and you're trying to
explain crypto to them or, you know, go back to, you know, when I was, you know, December 2011,
talking to my friend that's my Bitcoin and I just was telling him like, oh man, like this is just
like a scam. Like, yeah, I'm not into it. Like machine learning developers, you're not not all of them,
but I'd say like, yeah, a good portion of them are still like in that mindset. But then once we
have a conversation with them and kind of explain it to them, they start to see the light. But you
know, you can only have like, you need to have a one on one conversation with someone to really
like, get them to understand it. So that's been the more challenging part is like recruiting these machine learning developers
to participate in the network.
But we've started hosting,
we call them forge competitions,
but they're like hackathons or model thons
where people are incentivized with bounties
to then produce models for like a topic that we've set up.
Like I think we have one right now for
the daily price of gold. So we have, I think, around 15 to 25 machine learning developers that
are actively participating in this hackathon to build the best models for predicting the price
of gold 24 hours into the future. So that's kind of been a little bit more of a slower moving part. But in the beginning, it was all slow moving.
Everyone thought crypto and AI really blended together.
But you're really starting to see that tide sort of shift, especially with developers in the Web3 space.
They're realizing what benefits Web3 can have, all the use cases that it can unlock and really make that much better.
But I think a year from now, things are going to be a lot different.
It's not too far in the future where I think you're going to see
the majority of on-chain transactions actually be done through AI agents.
AI agents, they don't get tired.
They don't get hungry.
They don't need to go to the bathroom.
They're just always there online optimizing. It
doesn't matter if they're going to make you $100,000 or two cents. They're going to always be
there optimizing. So they can do a lot more transactions, a lot more volume. And I think
that's what you're going to end up seeing as like the default user experience instead of
you needing to go to Aave and then going to a
DAX and doing your own loop and then, okay, my collateral asset is going down in the loop,
I need to de-risk myself. You're going to have an agent that can automatically increase leverage,
decrease leverage, do everything that you normally would do. And it can actually execute that at an
expert or your expert level. So if you're a beginner or someone who's even intermediate, there's going to be an obvious
benefit to you in that this agent can actually perform these tasks better than you ever could.
But even if you are an expert or a near expert, you say, well, I could do this all myself.
Well, you could.
But again, you're going to get tired.
You're going to get hungry.
You're going to need to go to the bathroom.
You can't be in front of your computer all the time. But you're going to be in front of your computer eight to 10 hours a day. What if you just paid an agent a 10% performance fee and you got all that time back? You didn't need to sit in front of your computer for eight to 10 hours or even more a day. You were able to go outside and touch grass you know for me personally i think a lot of people as well uh
that seems like a good trade-off uh so yeah you're gonna see agents take on a lot more of it's like
the yield generating part of crypto and people are gonna have these like ai agents uh be their
money managers rather than just uh try to do it manually themselves.
Right, sounds interesting. And I'm particularly curious,
when you mentioned onboarding developers was a challenge,
right, Mike?
What was the conversion rate
after these one-to-ones that you mentioned?
I would say probably about 75% of the time
will resonate with somebody.
But again, it's a slow process
because you're having one-on-one conversations.
And if you look at the very large
open source ML developer communities
like Hugging Face and Kaggle,
there's hundreds of thousands of people,
if not seven figures of developers in these, if not, you know, seven figures of,
you know, developers in these communities. So, you know, when you're saying like, hey,
during the course of a quarter, we can have between 100 and 150 conversations,
like that's a drop in the bucket. First, like what's out there in the entire world. So I think,
you know, it's starting to snowball down the hill and getting that momentum
is the toughest part. But once that snowball starts rolling, it gets bigger and bigger and
faster and faster. And it reaches a point where there's no stopping it. So right now, yeah,
we're at that point where we're taking this little snowball, we're starting to roll it down the hill.
It's picking up a little bit more snow, a bit more speed but it really hasn't started to roll and get tremendous yet but yeah i think
we're going to be getting there pretty rapidly
nice um another follow-up question that's um not on any list Mike but do you think
Sergio you still there you cut out
Sergio, are you there?
Can you hear me?
Give me a thumbs up if you can hear me.
Hello?
Yeah, I can hear you now.
Oh, okay.
Oh, okay.
Let me just check my Wi-Fi.
I missed your question. question oh okay um so my
question is so up to today um the current reputation of crypto right do you think it's
helping convert people um special mention you know to to the developers or do you think it's
like scaring people away in terms of like the current state of the industry
yeah yeah i would say uh it's definitely helping more than it's hurting um i think meme coins like
that kind of meta and run up that we had you know that gets people you know a little bit hesitant
when you're you're dealing with professionals that take themselves very
seriously and they're not too familiar with Web3 to begin with. And then they see these edgy,
racist meme coins are the ones that are taking off and getting all the attention.
But I think with the administration that we have in Washington, D.C. now,
how open they are to crypto versus the previous administration.
People are seeing that, yeah, there is a lot of innovation that's happening there.
You've also had a lot of institutions and banks start to really come forward with proof
of concepts that they've been working on.
So I think it's lending a lot of credibility to blockchain in general and just how impervious it's going to be in our lives in the coming years.
And so, yeah, there are some like funny, goofy, cringe things that are happening in the industry.
But when you take a step back and you look at, all right, there are some like kind of goofy or cringe things that are happening.
But then also look at the other side of it. Look things that are happening, but then also look
at the other side of it.
Look at what's happening on the institutional level, enterprise level, what's happening
with a lot of these banks and payment platforms.
Look at what's happening with policy without different governments throughout the world.
Look where they're moving.
And there are legitimate things being built that are going to be the future of technology.
And they're going to be just a daily staple that everybody's live and the not too far
out future.
And then that's when people realize like, okay, like maybe I do have this like bias
against crypto for whatever reason.
But when you start looking at it in the more, you know, holistic lens of like separating,
you know, the good from the bad, you see, okay,
this actually is very legitimate technology. And there's a lot of cool applications that are just
right now starting to get explored that, you know, are very, very exciting. And, you know,
when you start having this conversation with these developers, they start to realize it and it starts
to click. You know, they have their guard up originally um and they have their own like personal biases but you know after a conversation a lot of them tend to
realize like okay yeah there is legitimate stuff here and this is actually something that yeah i
could see myself being a part of nice um yeah thank you mike um great to know you know um to be honest you you went you know exactly the
um exactly where i wanted to to go with the question you know um with the mention um of
meme coins um i don't know like this is my personal um kind of feeling view you know but i think we we were doing quite well in terms of um getting a
kind of positive reputation you know or like things were being a bit more serious and um
people were looking at uh blockchain you know the crypto industry with um all the eyes but then all
in a sudden you know we we have this meme coins crate which well i mean
it's as brought in a lot of attention but at the same time you know i think um it does also kind of
uh refueled you know older narratives and and yeah it's taking up so much um screen time in
more traditional media um so yeah just just wanted to hear you know what uh what was
your opinion on the matter um so thank you so much for sharing that with us and now back to the to
the original question that i had um what kinds of communities or protocols do you think benefit the
most from alora's models yeah it's like yeah obviously anyone that's building any sort of uh
agent that's focused on yield generating financial activities like that's the low-hanging fruit
uh a lot of these teams like if you you know recall back november december january like when
agents first had their run-up um you know they're basically like glorified interactive nTs. It's basically a chatbot tied to Avatar of a cute anime chick.
It has a token.
But you saw a lot of them also brought us like,
this is going to be a trading agent
and it's going to earn DeFi yield for you.
And teams were probably inexperienced at that point in time
thinking that, okay, well, we can just use Clawed, Llama, GPT,
and that will be the intelligence engine.
This will be what provides Alpha for us to trade on.
But then as they started doing their homework a little bit more,
and they probably built their first proof of concepts,
they quickly realized, okay, if we're trading assets and we're only using an LLM,
we're going to lose everybody money.
So you saw people start to kind of just teeter out because they really couldn't build what
their vision was in their head.
Allura gives them the ability to actually build that, to build agents that are focused
on yield generating financial strategies.
And I'd say those are obviously ones we can help.
But then existing DeFi protocols as well, like lending protocols.
I mentioned dynamic loan-to-value ratios, dynamic liquidation thresholds, DEXs.
You can do things like intelligent DCA strategies that don't just buy a set amount of an asset every time period.
They can either buy more or buy less based on the forecasted price in the future. So
if the forecasted price of an asset is going to go up, they would buy more than they typically
would during that epoch because, hey, if the price is cheaper now, then it's forecasted to be in the
future. And then conversely, if the price is forecast to go down, I'll buy less than I typically
would because I think I'm going to have a pretty good chance of buying it for cheaper during this next time period.
And then perpetual protocols.
There's things you can do with optimizing funding rates, automated and leveraged trading strategies.
So there's just a lot of cool use cases that you can build into existing DeFi protocols
where it's either been
on their whiteboard for a number of years. This is not uncommon where we get on a call with someone,
we explain some what Allure is, what we're building, and some of the use cases that may
pertain to their particular vertical. And they'll tell us, this is actually something that we've had
on the whiteboard as an idea for a couple of years now, but we just didn't know how to build it.
We didn't have a crystal ball.
So it was just something that we thought was cool, but we just didn't have the technology there for us to be able to do it.
But Allure actually gives us the ability to now build this out.
And I love hearing that.
But that's really what you see a lot of the time. And it doesn't
really matter too much of the vertical. Like there's always at least two, three use cases,
regardless of if it's an options protocol, if it's a yield protocol, DEX, lending protocol,
et cetera. You know, there's use cases for AI within all of them. And I think a lot of them are now opening up to the fact of like, yeah, this is the future.
This is what the next generation of user experience is going to look like.
And they get really excited about developing these new experiences for users.
Yeah, super helpful.
Thanks, Mike.
And next question comes from our community.
You know, we always have folks asking, like,
how is Anchor supporting SYZ partner behind the scene, you know?
Could you share how Anchor's infrastructure or data services,
you know, fit into the bigger picture of what Allura is building.
And, well, one just no question before that.
Is AlluraX Anchor partnership a LogoX Logo kind of partnership?
Yeah, so Anchor is one of our key infrastructure partners.
You guys are helping us out twofold.
I believe you guys are running a validator for the Allura blockchain.
So Allura does have its own Cosmos app chain.
It's not meant to be an Ethereum killer, the next Solana.
It's there for storing state history and doing aggregation of inferences.
So if anyone's familiar with like Pith and PithNet,
that's probably a good comparison or analog to use.
So you guys are helping on the validator side,
but yeah, I think more importantly,
you guys are one of the main,
if not the main RPC provider for the network.
And the way that people get inferences from the network
is off chain through an RPC call,
which is like very similar to an API call.
So, hey, I'm running this DeFi protocol.
I have this cool use case.
I need to get an inference from the lower network.
Well, what do you do?
You make an RPC call, it goes through anchor
and then they've received their inference
and they go about the rest of their strategy from there.
So you guys are very, very key component
very, very key component to the entire network.
to the entire network.
Awesome. Really appreciate that, Mike.
And, you know, it's always good to kind of demystify
this kind of collaborations and also shed a bit more light.
Yeah. Reminder that tech is often built on quiet but consistent infra and uh well
hopefully you know um we can keep assisting allura um in the long run and um yeah thank you really
much uh for that one mike um now we are looking ahead um, what's something that's coming soon to Allura?
Feature and launch, new partnership that you're personally excited about?
Yeah, I think everyone's really excited about Mainnet and taking the network live.
That's something that I can just assure everybody
we're working very, very hard on behind the scenes. Very excited to get it live. Right now,
we have developer mainnet, which mirrors mainnet pretty closely, but the mainnet version of the
network will be launching pretty shortly. Can't give it an exact timeframe, obviously, but
launching pretty shortly.
Can't give it an exact timeframe, obviously,
but not too far away.
So really looking forward to that
as well as coming out with some additional topics.
Right now we have prediction topics for BTC, ETH, and SOL
for both five minute and eight hour price predictions.
We've been running a lot of these model-thon
or forge competitions for various assets
on various timeframes.
So I think right now we're gearing up to do about a basket of 8 to 10 assets on a 24-hour
time horizon, looking at equities as well.
So predicting things like gold, Nvidia, the S&P 500,
the various timeframes that have been requested by our partners of,
you know, hey, I really love using Allura,
but you guys, you know, have five in an eight hour predictions. You have anything for 12 hours.
You have anything for 24 hours.
You have anything for a week.
So it's like really expanding out, I guess you can call it like
the product portfolio of what we have available available just so it fits more use cases.
So I think that's something exciting as well, because that's been more like the key ask from partners that we're working with is assets aside from the top three that we have, BTC, ESOL, various timeframes.
so um various time frames and that's just going to enable more and more use cases
And that's just going to enable more and more use cases.
all right sounds like um there's a lot to look forward to and you know i'm sure our listeners
will be watching closely um and now on a kind of a broader level say you know in the in the whole
web3 industry um if you had to bet on one under-hyped narrative
encryptor right now, which one would it be?
So it's gonna sound a little bit like a cop-out answer,
but I'll explain myself, but I'd say AI agents.
And I'd say AI agents are under-hyped right now.
And if you're listening to me, you might be like,
man, this guy's full of it.
AI agents are pretty hyped. I'd say, yeah, AI agents, very hyped November, December, January, part of
February. But then people started realizing that these agents aren't exactly what I thought they
were going to be. They're essentially glorified chatbots. But what I've been telling people for
over a year now is what you're going to see in agents is like three phases. And what we saw in
the later part of 2024 and the early part of this year is phase one. And phase one is just agents
are glorified chatbots tied to an avatar that have a token associated with them. They're not really
all that interesting beyond that. Phase two, which is kind of like where we are right now, but we're moving out of
it is agents still have all the properties that they had in phase one, but now they're actually
able to do basic actions on chain, like swap asset A for asset B or bridge this asset from
chain one to chain two. It's kind of cool because now they're actually doing things on chain,
but ultimately, who does that help?
Some guy that is afraid to use a DEX for whatever reason,
but is comfortable depositing into an agent to do a swap form or to bridge form.
But then phase three, which is where we're just starting to enter that realm,
that's where you're actually having agents able to perform yield generating financial activities, like I say, like an expert or a near expert level.
And then that just exponentially increases just what agents can do, but also their usefulness.
Because now it's not just a chat bot that's kind of gimmicky.
Oh, I'm talking to this NFT avatar,
essentially. You're actually able to now deposit and then it's able to perform these yield-generating
financial activities for you as good as you ever could. In a lot of cases, better than you ever
could. And then save you a lot of time as well. And then that also boosts a lot of metrics that
the media pays attention to in terms
of like number of transactions happening on a chain, amount of volume flowing through a chain.
So you're going to see a lot of increases in both of those metrics just come as a result of
agents becoming more and more accessible and more and more capable. So I think it's under
hype right now because people are still in that mindset. Maybe
they have like a bad taste left in their mouth from like the later part of last year, the early
part of this year, like, oh, agents. Yeah. Agents, those are just like glorified NFTs. But, you know,
that's probably if you haven't been paying attention to the space all that closely.
But, you know, where we're moving in the future, it's going to be a lot, lot more than that. And it's going to be a lot more beneficial to your everyday user than just, oh, well,
I have this token that's associated with a chatbot.
So if you're still thinking like that's what an agent is, your definition of an agent is
outdated.
And hopefully, this conversation today has led you to think about it a little bit more
progressively in terms of like not what you saw six months ago but what things are going to look
like six months from now how long do you think this um phase three is going to take like to fully be
you know completed fully be completed like never um, agents are just going to get more and more capable until, yeah, they're running the world
and there are overlords basically.
But, you know, where I'd say like that inflection point is like,
say maybe 50% of all transactions in volume
are being, you know, taken by agents
rather than humans behind a screen.
Like that's where I'd sit the
baseline. I would say we're probably about 12 to 18 months out from that. I think, yeah, and that
sounds like, you know, pretty rapid, but I think once you start having the snowball roll down the
hill, it's going to pick up more and more steam and it's going to become like the default, you know, pretty quick. And then when you have it be the default pretty
quickly, like you said, humans just can't match the amount of transactions, the amount of
optimization, the amount of volume that agents are able to actually do. So you're going to see
that flip like, you know, pretty rapidly. You know, that amount, if you had a ticker of capital flowing through users manually versus capital flowing through agents, you're probably looking at 99 to 1% right now.
But you're going to see this curve from the agents go parabolic up into the right and the manual user uh the actions going
parabolically uh downwards into the right and they'll probably flip over if i had to guess
somewhere between like a year to year and a half from now and then from there it's going to be off
to the races all right cool um yeah thanks for sharing the you know the timelines or well estimated timelines you know um
when when it comes to user experience mike um and then i promise this is going to be my last
follow-up question um but how do you envision you know how do you envision it will be like
um do you think you know people who are not very techie or or not very
you know good with tech um are they going to be able to to use it with you know smoothly or do
you think there will be some degree of um you know of a blocker no i think it'll be very simple um i
think you're gonna see like two avenues um we'll see which one gets more traction first. But you're going to have strategies that are developed specifically for something like, hey, this is going to trade leverage perpetuals on this certain decks. And this is the strategy parameters where it can take up to 4x leverage, you know,
if conditions are looking good enough, it can also short. And you have these like very defined
strategies that are pre-built. I think the other thing that you're going to see is more of like
what people are familiar with, like with chat GPT and LLMs, where you just write a prompt and you say, I want you to take this amount of my capital and put it
into a leveraged trading strategy for this asset. Or I want you to do a looping strategy with ETH
to USDC and don't get me liquidated, but take out enough leverage that you feel is safe and I can still survive a black swan event
that may happen.
And so you just write in the prompt
of what you desire that strategy to be.
And then the AI just automatically does it for you
regardless of what you input,
like it will execute it and create a custom strategy
for an individual user
and whatever they want to do in particular.
So I think that's kind of the user experience
you're going to end up seeing.
And I think it's going to be very easy.
If you can swap on a DEX, you can deposit into a vault.
If you can use ChatGPT, you can use one of these protocols
that's building out like that sort of thing
where you just prompt it with your desired strategy
and then it creates that strategy for you automatically.
So if you're someone that can just swap something on a dex
or deposit into a vault,
which are like the two most basic things
you can really do on chain,
it's going to be nothing new to you.
So it's really going to actually increase
that user experience in terms of,
you're not going to feel like you need a PhD
to do these
more sophisticated strategies that are on chain.
Oh, impressive.
It sounds like it's going definitely to democratize things a little bit.
Well, thanks again for all the insights, Mike, and thank you for answering the follow-up
questions as well um
now um just the very last question on my list just um also a more relaxed one just let's say we record
um next episode you know in a year time from today what would you love to be able to say about allura's progress by then yeah i'd love to say that allura
is powering uh 90 plus percent of all yield generating financial agents and has become
the standard in that regard much like how same link is the standard when it comes to uh real-time
uh price feeds yeah laura is the standard when it comes to price predictions or any sort of
financial forecasting or alpha prediction. And I'd love to also be saying, I'll stick to my
prediction from earlier, that 50% of all transactions that are occurring on chain are occurring via
agents. I think that would be something that we'd love celebrating over here. And the industry
should be looking forward to it as well,
because that's the next generation. It's really inevitable. When it happens is kind of anybody's
guess. But on a long enough timeframe, it's 100% inevitable that it's going to happen.
So yeah, I would love to see us a year from now having a follow-up conversation and
kind of reminiscing about
hey you made these predictions and they they turned out to be right yeah 100 um let's bookmark
that you know and hopefully we look back next year and celebrate right at how far it has all come
um yeah thank you again so much mike um we are a little bit you know over the the hour that i
initially booked you for um also i want to blame uh twitter you know or x because i had some issues
setting up definitely not me um and well michael thank you so much it's been a really you know
thoughtful fun and definitely energizing conversation um talk about your personal story you know thoughtful fun and definitely energizing conversation
Talk about your personal story, you know
Even speculated a little bit about the future
That's great. And well, I think our listeners are definitely walking away with a lot of think about and
before we let you go
we like to hand the mic back to our guests one last time.
And if there's anything you would like to share, like a message, a favorite quote, or just a goodbye in your own style, the floor is yours.
Yeah, I just want to thank everybody in the audience for being here, listening in.
I want to thank you, Sergio, and the team over at Anchor.
You guys have been excellent partners and really appreciate you taking the time to speak with me,
learning a little bit more about Allura today. And like I said, Mainnet coming up soon. And if
anyone in the audience is working on a project, whether that's a DeFi protocol or an agent, and you're curious how
Allura can really help benefit you, my DMs are open. Feel free to shoot me a message. I'm very
friendly. We'd love to chat with you and ideate on some ways that we could work together. And then
if there's anyone in the audience as well, that's on the model developer side. And you want to
start learning about how you can provide inferences
to the lore network
and monetize your abilities that way,
we'd love to have a conversation with you as well.
And same thing, hit me up in the DMs.
We'd love to chat with you
and really look forward to bringing
this next wave of innovation
to DeFi and Web3.
Beautiful. Thank you again, Michael. And and to the listeners if you enjoyed the episode
and you like you know what mike has been sharing um don't forget to follow us don't forget to follow
laura and also mike and well um that was it from from us today uh very interesting questions uh sorry very interesting
and detailed um answers from mike we got to learn a lot from him um thank you so much mike and um
yeah until next time in a your time more or less really looking forward to it thanks so much sergio really appreciate it thanks everyone have a nice day goodbye thanks everyone Thank you.
