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@Permissionless II Hackathon: @wanchain_org (Sponsor Spotlight) 🔦
Recorded: Aug. 24, 2023 Duration: 0:36:57Space Recording
Full Transcription
Hello, everybody.
What's going on?
Oh, hey.
All right.
Hold on.
Let me get 404.
And then, hold on.
Let me make sure this is the...
Cool.
And then one second.
Let me check in with Temujin.
Cool.
Let me invite him as a co-host.
Okay.
I sent a co-host invite.
Should be able to get it.
Let me try again.
Oh, there we go.
Sweet.
Gore, are you there?
I think everyone is here.
Yeah, I'm here.
All right, GM, everyone.
While we're getting others to join, everyone feel free to blast out the link to the spaces.
And let me pull up the agenda.
But also, before we do get started and I hand the mic off to Gloria, I'm going to just run through a few quick announcements.
Just general announcements for Biddlebox.
Let's see.
Where do we begin?
So, the Bounties platform or the Bounties portion of our platform is officially live.
So, any orgs can go ahead and post bounties to Biddlebox and builders can work on bounties on Biddlebox.
And so, that's really exciting news.
Let's see what else.
We also made just a couple other, like, small little platform updates to improve user experience.
So, that's new.
I sent out the weekly newsletter yesterday, but we have hackathons that are running right now.
Funding the Commons.
Excuse me.
Fund Public Goods Hackathon.
That is ending on the 31st.
So, if you are listening, make sure you get your submissions in.
Luxo Build Up Number 2 Hackathon.
There are no dates set for that, but we're anticipating that to happen around late September.
What else?
Zeta Chains Bitcoin Challenge Hackathon.
That is happening now.
The challenge went live yesterday.
And submissions are open until September the 29th.
And then, the star of the show today is Permissionless Hackathon.
That is actually happening in, I want to say, oh my gosh.
It's two, or I'm going to be landing in Austin in exactly two weeks.
The hackathon begins on the 10th or the 9th through the 10th.
Right?
I believe so.
And sign-ups are still open.
And I'm going to go ahead and hand it off to Gloria because we have part of our series of Twitter spaces in partnership with Permissionless and 404DAO.
We are highlighting all the amazing sponsors that will be posting challenges in the hackathon.
Hence, we have Wanchain on here today.
And Gloria, what's going on?
Hey, Annalisa.
Before we get started, I just wanted to encourage everyone to go check out the bounties section in Build-A-Box.
I know a lot of people who are in between hackathons have found that bounties are a great way to help kind of continue their learning and also get like some financial contributions or winning towards their downtime.
So check out the bounties.
There are always coding and no coding ones.
And for those of us who are building these new technologies and want to put up bounties, I've known a lot of people who built out their technology via bounties as well.
So it's great that we finally have that incorporated into Build-A-Box and it's worth checking out when you have some downtime.
It's a good thing to utilize if you want to start getting ready for different hackathons as well.
With that, I am super excited to talk to Temujin from Wanchain.
And we'll just start with if you could just let us know a little bit about yourself and Wanchain and that would be great.
Sure, yeah, thanks for inviting me.
Just to check, is my sound coming through all right?
Yep, can hear you.
Yep, we can hear you.
All right, perfect.
Well, yes, thanks for the intro.
My name is Temujin Louie.
I am the VP of Marketing at Wanchain.
And we are sponsoring part of the hackathon at Permissionless this year and have a challenge in place.
But first, just a little bit about Wanchain.
Some of you here may have heard of us.
I recognize some of the names on the call.
But we are a relatively old project by blockchain standards.
We've been around since 2017 officially and probably the route stretched back even further than that.
But we are essentially an R&D focused blockchain interoperability project.
So everything we do is focused on interoperability, you know, trying to drive blockchain adoption in this way by making sure that all these different siloed networks can essentially act as one.
And if we just zoom out a little bit today, what Wanchain actually looks like, it's basically a project of two pillars.
The first is we have our own layer one EVM blockchain, standard EVM, and then a few Monero style privacy features.
And then we have a wide area network of blockchains, basically a whole network of blockchain bridges connecting just about 30 networks today, both EVM and non-EVM networks.
So here we can do all sorts of different types of cross-chain mechanisms, both value transfers for things like fungible tokens, but also other things like NFTs, just general message passing, which is, you know, more relevant to the hackathon and, you know, things like that.
Awesome.
And I'm thankful that you gave us a nice little overview over the technologies.
I was wondering if we could just kind of go over some of the current challenges that y'all are facing that could be solved by some of the builders in the hackathon, and then we'll get from there, we'll go talk about the actual challenge and the description you have.
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, as I mentioned, we are an interoperability project. And so what that basically means is, you know, at least in terms of a conceptual framework, is that it's the ability to transfer assets from one chain to another, the ability to send and receive messages across different blockchains, and ultimately the ability to initiate actions across blockchains, if we want to put it as kind of a conceptual framework.
But, you know, today, interoperability or this type of interoperability is still a ways off, you know, we're all pretty good at transferring value, basically, you know, wrapped assets, fungible tokens, things like that. And we're getting better at cross chain messaging, although we still need kind of a relayer in between to help pass messages from one blockchain to another. So basically, the big challenge or the big obstacle is that, you know, interoperability today, it's not very seamless, and it's not very flexible. So what we're hoping to get,
you know, from the builders who will join the hackathon is just to kind of push us a little bit further in that direction to make interoperability just a little more seamless, just a little more flexible for different use cases. And, you know, ultimately, what we want is the widespread adoption of blockchain technology. I think everyone in this call, everyone who's going to be joining permissionless, you know, that's, that's the dream, that's the end goal. And, you know, our perspective, of course, it's not the only blocker, but one major blocker is just that interoperability is so poor today.
And so many different blockchains are siloed, and you really can't interact properly with one another. And just to kind of, you know, a few weeks ago, I was listening to some interview, and it really kind of stuck with me, this one factoid. But basically, you know, we've often been saying that even things like scalability, you know, the ultimate solution here is you're going to need interoperability to really scale blockchain itself to be able to serve, you know, the world.
And one thing that was pointed out is essentially today, there's 8 billion people in the world, right? And just over 86,000 seconds per day. And if we just wanted to have one transaction per person per day, you know, we need over 90,000 TPS already. And obviously, you know, me myself, I might do hundreds of transactions in a day, and I'm just, you know, an individual, let alone the type of enterprise use cases that will have to be in place, if we're actually talking about, you know, true adoption.
So there's still a ways to go. And these are the kind of obstacles that we are, are trying to, to kind of tackle essentially with the hackers that will join this, this event.
I always like it when people start to talk about interoperability, because I always get the question of like, which chain will win out of all the rest of the chains. And there's like, it's not really that perspective. It's actually like, you know, we're a lot stronger when we have a lot of strong chains that can talk to themselves and creating this little network that, you know, is just, different chains are valuable for different reasons.
But the more that they can communicate towards each other, the better. And I think from a developer perspective, the more that you can understand how to make the chains talk to each other and get value from each other, the better of a stronger developer you are, because it's really laying the groundwork for where the future is going.
And so if you can kind of build those roads for other people to travel along, we're a much stronger community. So kudos to you all. And I'm excited to hear a little bit more about your challenge. Can you tell me a little bit more about it?
Yeah, absolutely. So just as a bit of background, one thing that Lanchain is doing this, this year is that we are opening up our general message passing platform to the public. So prior, you know, to this development, the, let's say, retail facing part of Lanchain was really more so the value transfer style bridges, you know, moving Bitcoin from one chain to another.
But, you know, there's a few other projects have started kind of opening up the protocols a little bit more, making it a little bit more flexible for developers. And we think that's a good thing. So, you know, we're putting our own spin on it, you know, this year.
And so this is really what the challenge is, is built around. We have this cross chain message passing, we have an SDK, submit DIs in it to really make it easy to interact with. And what we're looking for is and what we're challenging the hackers to come up with are basically true cross chain applications.
We've suggested a few paths, but we are equally interested in, you know, hearing the novel ideas. So basically, what the challenge boils down to is to basically use this cross chain message passing SDK, and to develop an application, deploy an application that's on at least two test nets, and wherein there is data that is being updated on one blockchain, whilst the application is, you know, making use of it on a different blockchain.
So you can kind of envision it as basically like a simplified Oracle system that is enabling, you know, true cross chain applications.
I love this challenge. Can you tell me a little bit about the prizes or how the prize will be structured?
Yeah, so in terms of the pure prize, we're going to be awarding a single winner, and the prize is $5,000 paid in Ethereum.
But the value is $5,000. But you know, we're also like I mentioned, really looking for these type of novel ideas. So we've suggested a few things, like I mentioned, but there's definitely the opportunity here, and we're treating it as such where solid submissions, even if they don't win, they can evolve into kind of long term projects that have formal support from blockchain, and of course, the winning project as well.
So, you know, this is, you know, pretty high octane hackathon. So, so, you know, we're all obviously keeping that in mind into to the level of polish that can come out, but we're really looking for solid ideas, that really kind of get the brief, that, you know, most importantly, is able to retrieve data, like I said, from one chain, and use it another chain, even if that data is being updated, and then at least have like a simple, you know, graphical user interface, make sure that's on at least, you know, two, two chains, etc, like I just mentioned.
So one winner, official winner, $5,000, but definitely kind of some long term benefits available for all good ideas, because we're really looking to build up this, you know, this side of the industry.
Can you tell me some of the resources that would be available post hackathon for those who are interested in continuing to build on their projects?
Sure. So if, you know, I'm sure there will be multiple, but for the kind of real solid submissions,
that end up getting, you know, submitted via this hackathon. Beyond the winner, Wenshin will also be looking to incubate promising ideas.
Like I mentioned, you know, this is a high octane kind of not very long term, the hackathon itself, it just happens over a few days, right?
So we're going to be looking for these, the core idea to be there, even if, let's say, you know, some of the polish, like I mentioned, is maybe not fully developed yet.
But we're going to see these ideas, we're going to be able to kind of project into the future.
And those that are, you know, solid, there'll be opportunities for incubation and things like that to really turn it into a long term sustainable project for the hackers.
I love that. Okay, so if I can, I guess, like concise it a little bit during the hackathon, if you're coming up with like, a solution, and you have like the skateboard version, but you have a vision for like, the, you know, moped version of your solution.
And there are opportunities to kind of flush your idea out a little bit more beyond what is happening at the hackathon.
But the hackathon would be a great way to flush the ideas out and show like a proof of concept per se that you can do within the 24 hours.
And there's constant opportunities post that. Correct?
Exactly. And, you know, the hackathon itself, in terms of the requirements, it's just to deploy on at least two chains that are test nets.
So, you know, once that proof of concept, as you said, you know, is in place, there's definitely lots of opportunities to build it out into a fuller scale system.
And, you know, it's at that stage where, you know, incubation and further kind of long term support from Lanchain becomes more appropriate.
Awesome. Can you let me know for those developers who are interested in taking a look at your challenges, like what resources are available to them ahead of the hackathon?
Yeah, absolutely. So the single most important resource is going to be our cross-chain message passing handbook.
We've linked it in the challenge that's listed on BuildBox already.
So that's going to be like the first place that hackers and developers are going to want to go.
Understand the handbook. It's not very long. It shouldn't be too difficult for experienced developers to wrap their heads around.
But it's very important because this is like a core component that must be in any submission.
Then the second major resource, this we're planning to be relatively hands-on.
So we expect to make ourselves available to all the projects we want to submit so they can have direct contact with the Lanchain team.
We'll be there, you know, to assist and consult and really just, you know, our end goal is just to support everyone to the extent that they need
so that the submissions can be, you know, as high quality as they can be given the time constraints.
And then we've also arranged some potential external support.
I say potential because it'll really depend on, you know, what the idea or the implementation that the hacker comes up with for this challenge.
But, you know, we have, for example, are pretty deeply involved with the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance.
So there'll be some resources that can be made available from there.
Same thing with API 3 band protocol, which is, you know, a classic Oracle.
So we'll be willing to, and not willing, but we're expecting to also, you know, open up our own network to make these challenges
and the submissions, you know, as rich as possible.
And will you have support on the grounds the day of at the hackathon, too?
Yes.
So we'll have in person our VP of engineering will be Dr. Wei Jia Zhang.
Excuse me.
He'll be on site in person to provide on the ground support.
Awesome.
Okay.
That's great.
And because the challenges are not public facing just yet, is there a link on the website or a spot on the website
where people can get the handbook that you were talking about that you know offhand?
Yeah, so the easiest way to access it is to just go to our documents.
So it's docs.wanchain.org.
That's docs.wanchain.org.
You can also link there, you know, from the Wanchain website, wanchain.org.
And then, you know, it'll be simple enough, you know, just on the navigation menu on the left,
it's just called, you know, the Wanchain Cross-Chain Message Passing Handbook.
So you just click that and you'll have access.
Awesome.
Okay.
I'm going to link that here, too, by the way.
Sorry.
Yeah, no.
Thank you, Annalisa.
I appreciate that.
For those in the audience who do have questions, like, please feel free to either Dee, either Annalisa and I, or Biddlebox.
You can also raise your hand and we'll pull you up and you can ask a question as well.
But I do want to let you all know that there is an opportunity to ask questions to Wanchain if you need to.
Yes.
I think we got one, well, an almost question.
Arthur, I see you in the audience and you asked, is it okay to ask questions here?
Feel free to drop in your question or you can raise your hand.
And I will be aggressively refreshing the screen until your question arrives.
But I'm also posting the documents, too.
I also wanted to, Annalisa, I know that we didn't do this in the beginning, but I wanted to take a moment to just give some of the high-level information around the hackathons so that, A, gives a moment for people to ask their questions.
But B, for those who are listening to this post, this Twitter spaces, it gives them the information as well.
So the hackathon itself, the Hack for Good from Permissionless, is sponsored by Blocksworth and 404DAO.
And it will be happening in Austin, Texas, from September 9th to the 10th, a 24-hour hackathon that's happening in Hotel Van Zandt.
And you can sign up for the hackathon.
I think we're going to put it in the actual Twitter space links.
I know you can find it on Biddleboxes, but you can also go to, I believe it's Permissionless 2, and you will be able to see the hackathon there.
The hackathon is 24 hours, and it's the two days before the Permissionless Conference.
And then at the conference itself on the 11th, there will actually be the announcements of winners, but also a whole developer's track.
So if you're participating in the hackathon, you are actually earning a ticket to Permissionless as well.
And you can spend the next day learning from the developer's track at Permissionless as well.
Permissionless will go until the 13th, and there's tons of breakouts, speakers, and things like that too.
So feel free to be part of the whole weekend, extended weekend thing.
There's lots of events happening during that time.
Hopefully, I covered everything that needs to be discussed on that one, and we can go back to Timogen and talk about Wayne Chain at this moment.
Let's see.
Okay, yeah.
I do have a couple good questions now.
Because this hackathon is around hacking for good and public goods, can you tell me a little bit about the public goods perspective that Wayne Chain has and why it's important to you?
Yeah, so at a very high level, I think a lot of us view blockchain itself as being for good, especially as it pertains to things like data ownership and things like that and giving that back to the end users.
So at its very core, I think a lot of what we're doing here can fall into that category.
But for this hackathon specifically, I think this will really kind of manifest itself in the submissions themselves.
And obviously, it's part of our evaluation criteria in terms of how well that it fits the for good angle.
So we suggested a few ideas.
But like I said, we're encouraging the hackers and the developers to come up with their own ideas if it's something that they're passionate about, something that is for good.
But there's some things that can really kind of be helpful for a lot of different types of people.
Some implementations that we suggested is some real-time weather information.
It could be real-time flight tracking information.
It could even be on the kind of foreign exchange and commodities price info type of thing.
So we're taking, frankly, a pretty broad definition of for good.
But we definitely are including it as the primary or one of the primary evaluation criteria for this hackathon.
I love it because, yeah, I think sometimes we used to think that only open source was like the public goods.
But then you have to look at all the public goods and have like a broad perspective.
And I think that the broader perspective of public goods affects our everyday more and more, whether we notice it or not.
So I think there's lots of implications that people can do.
And when you talked about the weather implications, I know that I don't know where in the world you all are, but I've been in California and we've had extreme weather.
And I've actually been in like evacuation scenarios where having most up-to-date weather responses or having things that would at least communicate back and forth would have been super helpful.
And they have not been in existence.
And it's just in an area where I think blockchain technology would be like super beneficial.
So, yeah, I'm really excited to see how people really take this understanding about public goods and communicate it to the needs from their perspectives and for the perspective of others, too.
Yeah, and just to add on to that quickly, you know, we're also hoping that just because, let's say, there are some weather monitoring systems, you know, centralized, they exist right now.
So kind of bringing those onto decentralized systems like blockchain in and of itself, I think, is something good and something worth striving for.
Not only just because of our, let's say, philosophical bent that a lot of us here probably have, wherein decentralized equals better, but just, you know, from a more pragmatic point of view in terms of just removing single points of failures and things like that.
So kind of improving on these existing systems that are, you know, for good weather information, flight tracking, et cetera, you know, building a decentralized versions of these, I think, in and of itself, is a public service and a public good.
I will have to 100% agree with you on that.
Yeah, I was up north during the car fire that happened.
I can't even remember how long ago, a couple of years ago it was.
And it happened to be that my best friend is the local weatherman in Northern California.
And the only reason why he was able to, like, tell everybody what was happening was because he had access to all the weather information.
But it was interesting that the fire department also did not have all the access to the weather information of what was actually happening.
And so they would always have to get clearance to go ahead and talk to him.
And it was, like, this long process.
And it was really interesting because the things that were, like, affecting the local areas were these fire tornadoes that had never happened before.
And if they had, like, a more decentralized area where they could at least talk together and get information a lot faster, I think they would have been able to, like, help more people.
But as things like that happen, it would be nice to have some type of decentralized communications where everyone who needed the information could access it whenever they needed it.
So I think that decentralization is always better.
Like you said, we kind of bend towards that way.
But the more people understand the benefits of it, especially from a public goods perspective, I think the better off we all are.
Yes, and I hope to never be within 100 miles of a fire tornado.
Try a hurricane or what are they calling it down in the way over here?
The fire tornado is a hurricane.
I was laughing as you were talking about the extreme weather in California because Gloria and I are both in Southern California.
And we were both experiencing the hurricane over the weekend.
But, by the way, I did throw a question up on the – is this called the Jumbotron?
Well, I'm going to call it that today.
And, Temujin, if you want to go ahead and read through that.
I'm not sure if we can answer that here on the spaces or if this is something that you can answer offline.
But just wanted to put that out there.
Thank you, Arthur, for asking a question.
Let me just go through here and check.
It's long for me to read out loud.
Yeah.
I can read it out loud because it also will help.
I have a question regarding token.
Token economics has to be set up so well that it is necessary for project participants to have a project token because the token has to be integrated into the project.
And the user has to feel the need to buy and hold it.
And I'm not talking about trivial staking.
I'm talking about full integration of the token where the presence of each participant will be necessary.
This, in turn, will affect the price.
The question is, how will you integrate the token to raise its attractiveness?
Okay.
Yeah.
I think I understand the question.
I'll answer it in two ways.
In the very kind of narrow scope of this hackathon, the application that the developers and the hackers are submitting don't need to make use of our own coin.
That would be the coin of the OneChain Layer 1 blockchain in their implementations.
We do have a requirement that one of the two chains that this application gets deployed on, one of them has to be the OneChain testnet.
And then there's a variety of chains for, you know, the second chain can essentially be whatever chain, whatever EDM chain the hacker wants to use.
So in that sense, for this hackathon, there's not really anything to do with any coin or token because we're also on testnet in addition to that.
But if you want to project what this type of cross-chain message passing can do, you know, through the future when, let's say, the winning submission grows and deploys on a variety of main nets,
because here, the way the cross-chain message passing itself works is that there's still a relayer.
And these are actually the same, let's call them bridge nodes that do our existing OneChain bridges.
So OneChain's bridges are, if not the first, one of the first that have launched in blockchain.
So our first mainnet cross-chain bridges, you know, launched back in 2018, which is quite a long time ago for cross-chain bridges.
And it uses the same core infrastructure.
So these type of cross-chain message passing will, you know, inherit the same kind of proven security that all of OneChain's interoperability products have.
And the OneCoin itself is part of that security layer.
I won't go into too much detail, but, you know, all the nodes, one of their permissionless nodes, also, you know, good for this event.
But they are, yeah, they're permissionless, decentralized, but there is a staking requirement wherein, you know, the OneCoin itself serves as a kind of financial security layer.
This is, of course, most applicable to value transfer bridges.
But the same nodes, you know, will retain that requirement even for the message passing.
So, yeah, I hope that answers the question.
Hopefully it does.
Okay, let's see.
If you do have any other questions, feel free to drop it.
We'll go ahead and give it one more moment.
If not, then we'll go ahead and wrap up.
I'm totally fine with that.
While we wait for one.
Oh, go ahead.
Oh, I was going to say, we got to give a shout out to BlockWorks team and 404DAO for joining us on the call.
What's up, y'all?
Hey, hey, hey.
Hey, y'all.
Hey.
Good to be here.
Thanks, everyone.
No problem.
Real quick, from 404DAO, can you give us a rundown of what y'all do and your participation in the hackathon?
Yeah, absolutely.
Sure can.
Yeah, so I'm Jackson Yoda, the COO of 404DAO.
We like to think of ourselves as Atlanta City DAO.
We host a blockchain conference, a premier Web3 conference in Atlanta every year.
We run a Web3 accelerator, and then we have a professional governance team for a few major layer ones.
We're helping with logistics and outreach for the hackathon, and we're really excited to be involved.
Awesome.
And then, Jensen, is that you?
This is me.
Hey, hey.
All right.
Well, what about your intro?
Sure.
So, you know, I work here at Blockworks as project manager.
I've been helping on the permissionless side of things, and so we're really excited about the hackathon and having all of y'all come out.
Please get your registrations in if you're interested in attending, and we look forward to seeing you there.
It looks like we're going to have a packed house based on kind of the preliminary registrations that we're seeing right now.
That is right.
Sorry.
I forgot that we didn't get to handle intros in the beginning because we are so excited to talk about Wanchain's challenge and meet with Timajin.
But go ahead, Gloria.
I'll have you bring it back in.
Yeah, no, I was just having a moment of gratitude just to be able to deal with both Blockworks and 404DAO.
It's been really great to start to think about this hackathon, and, like, all the sponsors have been really cool so far.
All the participants that I've seen come through have been really cool, so I'm excited to spend 24 hours together and, like, kind of building the future of this blockchain space.
And I hope all of y'all will be there, too.
Please don't forget to register.
If you're not quite sure whether you should attend or not, feel free to reach out to me or not.
You know, all are welcome, so feel free to apply.
And, you know, hackathons are, of course, my favorite thing.
I've been in this space for a really long time doing this, but I love the aspect of innovation that's there and just being able to create the future we want to see.
So kudos to everybody who is planning to attend.
Take a look at the resources that are available.
Start thinking about your team.
If you do need a team, go to the Biddlebox.
Like, once you actually apply for the hackathon, you'll be able to register on Biddlebox.
And once you're on Biddlebox, you'll be able to go to the Discord and join a team or look for teammates, pitch your ideas, things like that.
So feel free to get started with that.
You don't have to wait until the hackathon starts to start to build your team up.
But, yeah, this is going to be a great weekend, and I'm excited to see everyone.
With that, I want to do to say thank you to Timo Jin for Wayne Chain and for their insight on interoperability, for their insight into their challenge.
Yeah, it was a great discussion, so thank you so much.
And, Timo Jin, do you have anything you would like to say to close us out?
Just like to say thank you for the invitation.
Thank you, Timo.
I can reach out to you, or is there, like, a developer chat on Telegram for Wayne Chain?
Yeah, sorry, I was on mute.
So, yeah, we do have a Telegram channel, which I would invite everyone to come towards.
So that will be just called the Wayne Chain Chat.
And that's probably the best place to go to get kind of live feedback.
And those of you who are participating in the hackathon, you'd get in touch either there or on our Twitter.
And then, you know, we'll funnel each of you into a private group with Wayne Chain where we can kind of provide, you know, really hands-on, one-on-one type of support.
Amazing.
Well, thank you so, so much.
Gloria, I'm going to dish it back to you for the closing words because that is what I love you for.
Yeah, I guess in the best sense of interoperability, I would have to say that the pluriverse is the best universe.
And so, yeah, remember, it's not the winning of one chain.
It's the winning of all the chains being able to communicate together.
I hope that you all have a great day, a great rest of the day.
And I look forward to seeing you all in Austin.
All right.
Thank you, everyone.
Thanks, everyone.
Peace.
Later.
