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PKT Community Roundtable Discussion
Recorded: April 3, 2024 Duration: 1:36:45Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, let me do it right now. you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you
you you you
hey guys how y'all doing what's up what's up GM GM How y'all doing? What's up? What's up? GM, GM, GM, y'all.
Hey, everybody. How's it going?
All good. Early morning on the West Coast, huh?
Yeah, bright and early.
Got my cup of joe with me.
Happy wormhole day to anybody who's claiming.
Yeah.
Yeah, 11.30 a.m.
UTC.
All right, off to a quick
start here. It's looking good.
Ben,
Scale, if you wouldn't mind. I think we got
him, maybe. Yep, got Scale.
GM, GM. Thanks for having us on.
Absolutely.
Alright, let's make sure we have everybody before we get started.
We're going to try to remain very tight to the schedule,
but we also want everyone to be here.
Are we missing anybody?
We'll see.
Oh, we're missing tilted.
Hold on.
Hey, guys.
Can you do a mic check?
Can you hear us from the BlockApps account?
We can hear you.
Yes. Gotcha.
Let's do it.
Good to be here with y'all.
Of course, it should be a very interesting day.
Just waiting for Tilted, but don't absolutely need her to be here to get started.
Let's get some DMs here.
We should get everybody to retweet the space, if you haven't already, just so that we can maximize the attendance today.
Yeah.
All right.
So everyone who's here, thank you for joining.
Welcome to the PKT Roundtable discussion.
This week, we have a very exclusive roundtable.
We brought in a bunch of really great speakers.
Every project here is on fire this year.
These are up-and-coming projects, well-established projects,
or as scale, very, very established.
Beacon, very great community. ShopX, very established. Beacon, very great community.
ShopX, very established.
EstateX and BlockApps, really explosive.
They're about to really pop off.
So we have great speakers, great projects,
and thank you all for being here.
Everyone in the audience, please retweet the space.
Go ahead and like all the speakers here.
You don't want to miss out on what they're doing. Follow them.
All the speakers, you can pin something to the top if you know how.
And let's get some things pinned to the top so the audience has something to interact with.
In this space today, we're going to be talking about PKT Network a little bit.
And then we're going to ask the speakers some questions.
And then we're going to discuss the topic.
The topic today is,
you know, how will Web3 end corporate greed? I think most of us here in Web3 come from corporate
backgrounds, but also understand that, you know, we need to make a change in America and in the
world and Web3 is, you know, gives power power to the people so I think we're going to go
straight into letting PKT the host introduce themselves talk a little bit about their updates
as they usually do in the roundtables really quick and then we'll go into the rest of the
schedule yeah hey how's it going guys great to be here with you all. I want to kind of just
focus right on the topic and make sure we get as much interactivity with all the co-hosts who,
you know, just luminaries in the space and people who are doing amazing things. I think
one of the key aspects that's united us all is around, you know around just the core facets of blockchain
and some of those key tenets being transparency, inclusivity,
and then obviously the ability to bring power to the people.
power to the people. I think that's one of the key components of blockchain. And
I think that's one of the key components of blockchain.
we saw what this innovation on the Bitcoin side did for digital money and giving people the ability
to transact with no counterparty or intermediary, that could block those transactions. And that's led way to so much innovation.
I would actually love to, Kurt, if we could just have each of the co-hosts
introduce themselves and and talk a little bit about, you know, what they're doing,
just maybe like a like a one, one and a half minute per person,
just so everyone has some context.
And I can just start, you know, on the packet side, PKT was launched in 2019.
It's a layer one blockchain.
It's the world's first and only layer one proof of work blockchain for bandwidth.
And in terms of how the blockchain is constructed, really, it's people who are contributing CPU power and bandwidth.
That's what powers the proof of work.
The actual blockchain itself is a Bitcoin fork or clone and changes out the proof of work to use bandwidth and the result is this decentralized people-powered bandwidth-based
network that is designed to kind of adjoin to a mesh networking technology that Caleb,
who wrote the blockchain, also created back in 2011 called CJDNS, which is an incredible
technology. It makes it so that people can get an internet
connection from another person without having an internet connection themselves. And so that
just makes it so the internet can have a new sense of resiliency and the same kind of principles
that what Bitcoin brought to digital money packet is designed to bring to internet access.
When brought to digital money, packet is designed to bring to internet access.
Let's pass it on to Scale.
Hi there, and again, thanks for having Scale on.
My name's Ben.
I lead partner marketing operations for Scale.
Scale is a, without throwing a ton of technical jargon out, it's a gas-free
blockchain that is EVM compatible and it's scaling horizontally instead of vertically.
So the scale network right now has 20 chains that are live and active that are all processing
transactions at a rate of over a million transactions a day saving.
Last month, we had four and a half million users that saved $1.8 billion in gas fees.
So it's really flipping the script on how transactions are processed instead of relying on the end user to pay a gas fee.
The DAP themselves pays a flat monthly chain fee.
So in a sense, what we're trying to do is open up blockchain
for the masses, allow for projects to utilize scale almost as a decentralized AWS
and enable anyone to be able to get online,
interact with blockchain,
and do so without having to worry about those pesky gas fees or gas wars or rising costs that we are seeing associated with almost every chain, especially in the EVM space.
Thank you for that, Gail.
Let's move on to StateX.
Bart?
Hey, guys.
How are you all doing?
Thanks for the invite.
Pleasure to be here.
It's late for me.
11 a.m. already.
I'm in Asia currently for business.
So happy to be on this call.
Yeah, I mean, to give an introduction about the StateX,
something that I just want to tap into
that really, really resonates what we are doing,
Piquete, is what you just said
is that we are all trying to put the power back
in the hand of the investors, right?
So I'm very pleased that we can speak about that
because that's exactly what we do.
We are a real estate tokenization platform
that is only going to focus on real estate.
And it's not only a tokenization investment platform,
but it's way, way more than that.
So obviously we lower the entry barrier
for everyone worldwide to be able to invest into real estate.
We make it so seamless, the Web 2 to Web 3 transition,
that within a couple of clicks, within a couple of minutes,
you can be a real estate investor but not only that we offer a whole variety of other financial solutions
such as a secondary marketplace an instant loan system where you can instantly liquefy your
portfolio and loan for leveraging possibilities to build out your asset portfolio we We have a payment card system called Estetix Pay,
in which we make paying richer real estate investments possible.
So we're going to be one of the first companies worldwide
that links your asset portfolio and makes that so liquid
that you can actually pay with it.
And this could be really, really revolutionary for the average Joe, of course.
And besides that, we're also offering education because it all
comes down to education to inform the masses what they can do and to create
that mass adoption about the new web 3 revolutions that are coming up and how
that's going to disrupt the current corporate market so we are not only a
real estate investment platform but we are we see ourselves as an all-in-one financing management solution where you can instantly invest into real estate, sell real estate through our instant cash out options with our onboarded liquidity providers.
You can loan to leverage your portfolio.
pay with your real estate investments, make it so liquid,
and also have access to education to get to know all about the financial solutions
that we offer and work that to the best of your abilities.
So that's what Estadex is about.
We're launching next month, or the end of the investment platform is next month.
End of this month is our utility token launch,
so very exciting times for Estadex.
That's incredible.
Great stuff.
Let's pass it on to us.
Tilted, how, are you okay to talk?
Hey, thanks, Kurt.
Thanks so much.
Yeah.
And for having us here on the space. Can you hear me?
Yep, we can hear you.
Okay, great. All right. So Tilted is also in the tokenization of Web2 assets space. And we're
creating the world's largest liquidity pool for Web2 digital assets.
And our first app built on the Tilted L2 blockchain is the Tilted app.
And the Tilted app is a great demonstration of how any application,
consumer-facing application, can utilize the Tilt tilted Web2 digital asset liquidity pool and the L2 blockchain to essentially have commerce between game assets. So any game asset in the world can, you know, players to other players can buy, sell, and trade
their game assets. And, you know, right now your game skins are stuck inside of your game,
whereas with listing them on Tilted, not only can players earn rewards for listing them, but they can also
trade them for arbitrage and they can trade cross game. And when they list them, they don't have to
take it out of the library. They can still play with those assets. So these are experiences sort
of like TikTok shop. And yeah, thanks a lot, guys, for having us here.
And I also see our lead engineers in the audience.
So I don't know, Daniel, if you want to come up and talk at any point, but you're more than welcome to come on up here and join us as a panelist.
And I'll kick it back over to you, Kurt.
Thank you, Sarah.
That's cool. There's actually not any space. Oh, sorry. What were you saying, Josh?
No, I was just saying that's cool. It's a cool project.
Thank you. Yeah. Everyone up here has a really nice project. I see we have Block Apps.
Yeah. Very excited to be in this space with so many amazing projects.
Nashiva here for Block Apps.
And what we are doing is we are bringing real-world assets to the community in a whole new way via the Strata Mercada Marketplace.
So you can visit there and see all different types of applications of tokenization, which
we are implementing.
Right now, being able to make a positive impact on the environment via tokenized carbon offsets
in the Mercada blended carbon credit is something that's been very exciting for us to drive
real results on the environment.
And that's kind of piggybacking on our recent announcement of carbon neutral silver.
So within the marketplace, you can explore collectibles as well as commodities.
And we are working to continue to grow what is available as far as real world assets.
And just this past week, we brought a completely green, environmentally friendly silver option for fractional investment to the Ethereum mainnet.
And it allows you to allocate to silver, which has been performing amazingly well. It actually just
broke out recently from a pretty consolidated trading pattern over the last several years,
but we're seeing some exciting movement there. But the carbon neutral silver allows you to
get a position of fractionalized silver while contributing to some really great projects that
help impact hydroelectricity, solar panels, wind technology, and you can learn more about it all
at cns.blockapps.net. Thank you for that.
thank you for that yeah finally we have shop X up here Cyrus hey what's up everybody excited
to be here so my name is Cyrus I've been building in the therium space since 2016 got into Bitcoin
in 2014 so I've been you know cypherpunk for 10 years now, actually.
It was back in April of 2014 when I got into crypto. I've dedicated my life to building
Web3 technologies for e-commerce. So ShopEx is the RWA bridge to e-commerce. We've been
tokenizing real world assets, think products and inventory and SKUs and UPCs since 2016. Actually, I have my first
NFT that we minted in 2016 on Rothstein testnet. I still have that as a souvenir, but we predated
Dider and the whole NBA top shot of creating NFT. So we've been pioneering NFTs for the use of RWA
since 2016. But what we do is we help brands monetize web3 by turning
digital assets into customer engagement and we do that by using nfts and rwas and for rwas i think
this analogy will make a lot of sense for everybody on this call so how bitcoin solved the double
spend problem meaning when i only have one bitcoin and i want to send it to a person, I can't send it to two people. ShopEx solves the double spend problem, meaning if I have only one
item in stock and inventory, I cannot sell it to two different people. And that's really important
in today's day and age when we have like thousands of different distribution channels. I sell on
Amazon, eBay, affiliates, on my own website, Omnichannel, right? So there is no way to have real-time inventory and protections in place.
If we use blockchain, we solve that problem.
And that problem causes enterprise corporations billions of dollars a year in lost inventory.
Or if demand exceeds supply, that they have to get lots of customer service calls.
Hey, I've ordered something. Why didn't I get it?
Well, sorry, we actually found out that it was out of stock.
We've been live for two years now.
We have clients like Fox, Magpark, signing up for your guard and other big players.
So we have tons of use cases.
And what we've shown is that we're able to increase lifetime value.
So how long do you keep a customer using RWAs and NFTs through ShopEx?
Very exciting times.
We really want to usher ourselves away from the current structure of e-commerce that we have in play because that really only benefits three people
Amazon, Facebook, and Google. They make all the money and put more power back to small medium
businesses to build online without having to give all the profits away and build a merit economy
all through Empowered by ShopX. Thank you, Cyrus. I'm going to go ahead and pin everyone's posts to the top.
So while I do that, we can sort of get started.
Actually, Jesse, did you want to say anything else before we get started?
Yeah, look, it's really wonderful to be here with all these people building in the cryptocurrency
blockchain space and hearing how so many people are approaching
it from different angles.
But ironically, the core topic on this Twitter space about corporate greed, just listening
to what each project is bringing solutions for is definitely in alignment with that. And it's just, I want to make sure
that we're asking some of these questions,
just creating an open dialogue
so that everyone can kind of chime in.
Back to what inspired them to start their effort
because as an entrepreneur working for a startup
and pretty much every project in the blockchain space
is a startup and pretty much every project in the blockchain space is a startup and has some
entrepreneurial roots. None of them are big corporations or anything of that sort. So
we all kind of came in based on this ethos of bringing forth change and identifying problems
and trying to bring forth solutions and tokenization, blockchain, you know, the immutability of doing transactions through a blockchain. And obviously, I think the community side of cryptocurrency also lends itself to that. So it's something that has been a core tenant of how Packet began, just making sure that internet connectivity was put in the hands of the people. And then also one of these
major pieces being a lot of blockchain projects are talking about decentralization, but then
we're kind of relegated to building our solutions on major corporate infrastructure and using
Facebook and Google and Azure and Amazon AWS to actually host the servers and actually transmit
the data connectivity and the internet usage is usually based on major Fortune 500 or Global 1000
media conglomerates providing that connectivity. So that was one of the key pieces of Packet,
wanting to provide a,
you know, something very low in the stack that everyone can build and use and also helping
people get online. But I'd love to pass it around and just let anyone jump in, uh, to talk about
the inspiration for what they began or what they've been building and, um, and how it kind of
dethrones some of this corporate greed
and puts that power back in the hands of the people. I accidentally, we have one more guest
to introduce themselves. We have Beacon here. Oh, great. Yeah, jump them in. Jump them into the gang.
Sounds good. Hey, everybody. It's Chris from Beacon DeFi. You hear a lot of protocols talking
about wanting to bring the next billion people into DeFi. You hear a lot of protocols talking about,
you know, wanting to bring the next billion people
into DeFi, right?
And we want to be part of the how on how that happens.
We've been around, I've been in crypto since 2013,
DeFi since 2020.
And basically Beacon DeFi is an educational mastermind
for high net worth individuals.
And we provide education and bespoke coaching to our member community. We're one of the most successful masterminds of the space
with our members learning from our content, doing very well as investors in a safe and secure
manner. We do that through multiple weekly live calls, tons of guides, in-person events,
and our world-class library of content. So thanks to Packet and to Kurt for having us here today.
our world-class library of content. So thanks to Packet and to Kurt for having us here today.
One thing that we really take pride in is that since 2020, I've helped onboard tens of thousands
of people into Web3 and DeFi to do so safely and securely. I appreciate everybody who's here,
but spread the word out to your friends and family because we want to normalize DeFi as
the future of how we do business. And yeah, just really stoked to be here.
You're here.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
So I think I have a story.
How I got into building ShopEx is very similar to Vitalik's story.
Are we in this part, Kurt?
Sorry, I don't yeah all right so if
everybody hasn't heard about vitalik story i'll tell it real quick but it mirrors exactly kind
of similarly to how i got into crypto um in the beginning so vitalik was a avid world of warcraft
player he would play wow he built a character up um he grinded um so many hours to get all the types of assets and
um power-ups and level-ups and um stuff that he would find in the game and then one day blizzard
decided to nerf it and he's got so pissed off he's like you can't just unilaterally
nerf my character when i put all these hours in and he's like there needs to be better governance so that was the that that was the uh catalyst for vitalik you know putting one
and one together to get ethereum kind of like hey i learned this about bitcoin and blockchain and
maybe we could do it to have a better governance um for video games and then it turned out to be
to be ethereum so kind of kind of cool story for anybody that i know but similarly to me
ethereum so kind of kind of cool story for anybody that didn't know but similarly to me
i guess the first part was uh you know in 2008 my my family was impacted heavily by that recession
and all of the nefarious loans that were underwritten by wall street in the mortgage market
commercial real estate got completely screwed and the family
business kind of saw the impact of that as that trickled down to everybody. So that was kind of
my first understanding of, hey, if there's no proper transparency or checks and balances put
into place in our economy, that things could go haywire a little bit. And then secondly,
in our economy that things could go haywire a little bit. And then secondly, when I was in
college, I started a t-shirt company and I was selling t-shirts on Amazon, but I got censored
and I got taken off the platform with no reason at all. I couldn't figure out why. And I ended up
finding out that Teespring, which was another company that was just getting started back then,
which was another company that was just getting started back then,
they didn't like that I was using some API that they had,
and it was open, and that was totally okay.
And I was using it to create custom-generated names on T-shirts.
So if you were scrolling on Facebook, it would personalize the ad to say,
hey, it's ShopX Labs or it's Scale Network or whatever. Whoever was reading it,
there was some logic in that. So they weren't happy. So they nerfed me and I lost my income
in college and that sucked big time. And when I found out about Bitcoin in 2014, I graduated
college in 2010. So a few years later, I found Bitcoin. I knew I understood immediately what
that meant. And then from there, I just want to build technology that prevents big corporations exposing or taking advantage of the little guys.
Because at the end of the day, you know, moon coins, alt coins, meme coins, NFTs, Bitcoin, whatever you're into, that's just a means to an end to building a better life.
We're all in this life not to make more Satoshis.
We're in this life to have experiences and have relationships. What happened in 2008 after my family got impacted
by that, it was like two, three years of just chaos. And we didn't get to spend time together
or go to family dinners. The whole family dinner table was kind of starting to unravel and fall
apart. And that rhetoric is actually screaming really loud in this current economy where tons of Americans, at least I live in the States, tons of Americans are just barely
making by. They don't have any places to go work. There are supposedly jobs everywhere, but no one
could find something that is really helping them out in everyday Americans. So creating a system
where you could be rewarded based on merit and there isn't middlemen taking out tons of little microtransactions from your profit margins that will eventually make you not want to stay in business or be able to stay in business.
Because I saw that how building e-commerce and the small, medium businesses that we have, if those get shrunk, then the corporations get bigger.
And the corporations have a lot of power on what happens with people.
And that impacts family.
That impacts the traditional family values that I care about and a lot of cultures and a lot of people care about too. So helping us build a sustainable way of making income without having to give away a lot
of income to inefficiencies is the catalyst why I got started. I can actually relate a lot to that
because Jesse and I, we had started an e-commerce business as well and we got de-platformed basically.
an e-commerce business as well. And we got de-platformed basically. Well, we've actually
been de-platformed twice. One for our pet CBD company that our payment processor, even though
CBD is legal all through the United States, federally, the payment processor just decided
that they don't do that and took away our payment processor.
And then Shopify will still charge you a 1% fee on your transactions even if they're not
even processing your payments.
And then PayPal would process it, but they would take 5% and they had a 90-day rolling
reserve. At one point, they had 150K of our money just tied up and waiting for us to be able to get it back.
And so that just kind of proved to us the value of what's being built over at Packet,
where you have this sovereign place where you can build things that's not censored by big corporations and big
tech and government. And also where your URL is also your payment address. And so creating that
efficiency and that sovereignty for businesses to be able to thrive. And, you know, we're not doing
anything illegal or nefarious or anything like that.
But it's there's so many different businesses that can just literally get shut down and never turn back on.
Just by the platform.
That happened to us too, Josh, with regards to Rowdy and selling mining devices.
to Rowdy and selling mining devices right where they were like we don't allow cryptocurrency
Right.
uh to be you know processed using our payment processors and so they canceled our our payment
processor and we were like we're not even selling cryptocurrency we're just selling
computer hardware and they were like but it's for mining.
So we don't want to be involved with mining and we don't want to be involved with crypto.
And so you can't use our payment processor.
So yeah, it's just, it's a big problem.
Payments are definitely a big problem.
Scale, do you want to, actually, before we go to scale, I just wanted to give a chance
for Caleb to get introduced as well. Caleb is our Vitalik at Packet, and
he's got an equal-sized bone to pick with major conglomerates, corporations, and governments,
and why he built some of this incredible tech for the last decade plus. Caleb, do you want to give a quick intro on, on your inspiration on CJDNS and,
and PKT? Yeah. Hey, how's it going? Um, well, uh, I got some big shoes to fill out that intro.
Um, I think that, uh, you know, the real problem is not so much there's a big company and the real
problem is that that big company is a monopoly and you can't go anywhere else, you know, the real problem is not so much there's a big company and the real problem is that that big company is a monopoly. You can't go anywhere else, you know, and like insurance, you know,
you just hope that insurance will be priced reasonably because you can't start your own
insurance company, you know, and it's so silly when you think about you can't start your own
insurance company because like, what do you have to do to prove that you have the money? You just
post a bond equivalent
to the amount of the, the maximum amount that could be, uh, taken in the, um, the maximum,
uh, award that you could have to give. Like, it's so simple, but so much of this, of the stuff is
regulated out of existence to where only the oligarchy, so to speak, has access to it. And
I mean, even the internet, like even when we're talking with the internet, but the oligarchy, so to speak, has access to it. And I mean, even the internet, like even we're talking with the internet, but the oligarchs
control the wires.
And that's like the fundamental aspect of being able to communicate freely with somebody
else who wants to communicate with you freely.
I'm not even talking about free speech, the ability to talk to everybody.
It's just how about communication between people who want to.
And you don't even have the ability to do that.
That's not even guaranteed because it's over the wires that are owned by the oligarchy
and they can just turn you off.
You know, like this doesn't really happen that much.
We don't hear about people getting their internet turned off.
But a lot of that is because it's very difficult
to identify somebody and say, oh, well, we're going to turn this person off because, well,
they get on the internet via their neighbor or something like that. And I think that we need
more of that because we could get to a point where, you know, like the Canadian truckers,
they got their bank accounts turned off. We could get to a point where if the oligarchy doesn't like you, they will just turn your
internet off.
And then what are you going to do?
So, yeah, I mean, I'm pretty strongly opinionated that we need to have a sovereign internet
so that there isn't, it's not easy to just turn it off.
And I know, like, if you got a mesh net in the
whole town yeah sure you could turn off the whole town but that's a lot different than being able
to pinpoint one person and turn them off if you turn off the whole town it's going to make a lot
of mess but yeah you bring up a good point because like the attack vector for decentralization in my
opinion is hardware right we could decentralize all we want in the software,
but who owns the hardware could control
who gets access to the software.
So, and I don't know how you're gonna decentralize NVIDIA
or any of the hardware manufacturers right now.
If Amazon wanted to turn off or access to AWS
for tons of companies, they could do with a snap
of a finger like Thanos.
It's just food for thought.
Oh yeah.
So by the way,
I'm going to be selling some virtual private servers.
It's a totally experimental thing.
I'm selling them for packet.
This is going to be coming like this next week,
probably I'm going to open it up.
I'm hosting that at my house and it's all CJDNS only. And via reverse VPN,
you can get it to the
internet but um where we want to go to with it is to the ability for everybody who has like fiber
or something to host their own websites at their house i host a ton of stuff at my house and i just
reverse vpn it um and i think everybody needs to be hosting websites at their house but if you're
not ready to host at your house, you can host at my house.
Yeah, I think, dude, that's the step in the right direction.
But if you're going to have like a global brand like Amazon,
I don't know what type of traffic those will be able to handle.
So just we need to figure out how to scale it.
I'm sure there's a way to decentralize hardware from like a botnet or something like that
and where stuff like that exists,
where you could just give some or like see a coin or file coin but we need to address this
decentralization of hardware issue rather quickly here it for the most part it doesn't need to be
that complicated like there's a lot of houses you know there yeah there's a lot of websites but
there's also a lot of houses and most of the the time, you know, everybody thinks that they're going to scale to where
every human being on the planet is accessing their website.
But most websites, I mean, I run a fair amount of stuff right out of my house.
And I've never had any problem with it not being able to handle the load and needing
to like have the cloud scale stuff.
So, you know, that solves a huge amount of problems just having
everybody able to like host their blog and their mail server under their couch you know
yeah i'm with you dude i i think it's a i think it's a great idea and great foot for if everybody
takes ownership of their own content it's kind of like of like not your keys, not your crypto.
If it's not your server, it's not your data.
Yeah, exactly.
That's a good one.
In the interest of time, I want to kind of single people out a little bit.
I like the free-flowing discussion and everything,
and we can definitely jump back into that.
But some of the speakers have things to do and everything.
So I'm going to pass the question along to scale,
sort of going in hand with the topic.
Hopefully Ben had some time to think about this one
because I think it's a bit of a hard one.
So here's a question.
Blockchains are basically the foundation of Web3.
It's how it all runs.
Scale, how do you see a blockchain's role and responsibility in helping to shape this ecosystem whose goal is to promote quality.
Obviously, that's not what the blockchain is specifically made for,
but that's all of our goal, and that's what it enables.
So as a blockchain, as a foundation of everything,
how do you guys on a day-to-day, do you view that as a responsibility?
Yeah, this is a great question.
And first off, the conversation that's been going on here has been, you know, amazing. And, you know, I've learned a lot in a short amount of time.
They've been able to just tune in and listen and let you guys, you know, get after it.
But this is, you know, a fascinating conversation that we have internally about, you know, how much of a guiding hand should a blockchain have, right?
The whole ethos of decentralization is that anybody anywhere around the world should be able to launch a DApp on a blockchain.
Now, there are some technical, you know, things that people requirements that people need
and the ability to be able to interact with the blockchain. And ideally, on the scale side, we
work with the teams that have chosen to build up on scale. But where this really resonates with what
you know, the scale team has and scale network believes in is that equality stems from the ability for anybody
to interact. I know, you know, mentioned it briefly in the introduction, how Scale has
zero gas fees. And what that really means is that if you wanted to play to earn a game
and you're earning a dollar, two dollars, $3, even less than that a day, you can swap that
from any gaming token to Ethereum, Bitcoin, to a stable. And you're not having to worry about
or run numbers upon what that gas fee is going to do in terms of eating away at what you've earned.
And so, you know, we've talked about DeFi as well and how, you know, like getting into
decentralized finances is really a key to the future of Web3 and also, I mean, really what
people should be doing in general as we kind of move forward and getting away from the
as we kind of move forward and getting away from the centralized entities.
centralized entities.
But right now, that is gate kept to those who can actually afford to process and perform these transactions.
So, you know, a blockchain plays a role in definitely plays a role in promoting equality.
It's flattening the earth. It's giving access to monetary systems for anyone around the world who might not have access to a bank or a checking account or anything like that, but to be able to pull out money to generate income, to generate wealth from anywhere they are in the world. And with scale, we look at that as, you know, not only a, you know, an honor, but also
a burden that we need to be providing the capability for anybody to be able to do that,
not just those who can afford to pay a transaction fee, who can afford to eat the costs that are
associated with, you know, performing a swap or performing any other, you know, kind of transaction on chain.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was aiming more for in the question.
Like, you know, do you guys take that into consideration?
You know, do you guys feel the gravity of the responsibility?
Like, what do you, how does it affect your decision making?
It definitely does. You know, I think when you're working in this space and you have people who are building really cool projects or who have really, you know, projects that are designed to either, you know, provide liquidity for thousands, if not millions of potential people around the world.
thousands, if not millions of potential people around the world.
You know, each decision you make in terms of the infrastructure matters and,
and, you know, setting up the network in a way so that,
you know, anybody can use it, anybody can interact with it and it's seamless.
You can create that invisible blockchain experience and you can,
you know, see the benefits for the end user
that allows for them to get access to a system that maybe they didn't think they would have
access to before.
And also just being able to provide that access to those who maybe don't have the knowledge
of blockchain or don't have the inherent knowledge to download a wallet and buy a gas token and bridge that over
and then start interacting.
But the ability to be able to start interacting right away
and get onboarded into Web3.
And then from there, right, you get them into it
and then they start to learn
and they start to see the benefits.
And that's where we truly are gonna see
mass adoption take hold real quick um if you could let me uh interrupt by the way guys great
discussions going on i love it i see this as a very valuable learning experience for me as well
hearing about all these great projects but i just have a question for skill and excuse my uh ignorance
i might be asking a dumb question but um i would really love
to know what like what is your guys's business model behind the blockchain with no gas fees
what is your guys earning model look like yeah that's that's a fantastic question um
yeah so how the scale network works is is we have 20 chains that are live right now um
is we have 20 chains that are live right now.
And instead of the gas fee being paid by the end user,
the DAPs themselves pay a flat monthly fee
for access to a chain.
So it's almost like a SaaS business model in a sense.
And whether or not your DAP performs one transaction a month
or a hundred million transactions a month,
you're paying a flat
monthly fee. And then all of the validators are also taking, they're splitting those chain
fees, whether or not they perform one transaction or validate one transaction or 100 billion
transactions. So there's not this competition to validate transactions. There's a pooled validation model
where the validators are working together.
The dApps are able to pay these chain fees.
I think right now access to a chain
is somewhere around $3,000 a month.
So we have low chain fees
that enable these dApps to build,
to focus on onboarding users,
and instead of monetizing the user to pay for the blockchain, the DAPs are covering that fee
to bring on as many people as possible. Yeah, and so that means you guys are like
proof of stake then? Because the proof of work would be too energy expensive to be able to run
those nodes, right? Yeah, proof of stake. So the scale token itself is staked into Ethereum
So each of the the 20 scale chains is is connected directly into
Ethereum so there's no centralized
Scale chain itself, right? So users don't need to hold scale in order to interact with your chain, correct?
It's just So users don't need to hold scale in order to interact with your chain, correct? There's no need to hold a scale token in order to engage.
In fact, many of the DApps utilize the social login model, create a custodial wallet in the background.
And most of these projects are games.
So the scale tokens are mainly for businesses or validators or who almost become a validator.
I guess they don't have to be a business to open up a chain and pay their fees and scale, right?
Yeah, there's, you know, and governance, right?
So, you know, holding scale tokens allows for you to participate in governance votes that are taking place for the direction that the scale network is going to go.
Hey, we should chat because ShopX does something very similar.
So you know how there's like SaaS models
and you have a software license to get access to a SaaS,
like Slack, and you need 10,000 seats
to have 10,000 users in Slack?
We do something similar.
We tokenize software licenses.
So the ShopX token is more of a B2B token
where companies can freely, in a free market,
buy and sell without an intermediary, including ShopX,
because I don't want to become another Amazon that gets to de-platform or decide who gets to get on the system or not.
I believe in no government intervention when it comes to commerce.
So we have a free market backend that businesses could buy and sell tokens.
If they need more services within ShopX, they just buy more software licenses.
It just happens to be an ERC-20 token.
It's kind of cool. We kind of are playing in the similar space so we should chat
Maybe we could share some clients and do some cool shit
Absolutely. Yeah, let's connect over
DMs after we hop off here. Yeah, for sure
Really quick
You know mid space here have a lot of people in fact i've never been in a space
i've never been like a speaker on a space with this many listeners that's pretty cool um but
regardless everyone in the listeners please like and retweet the space go into the top
the pinned tweets up there like them repost them. Very easy to give that little bit of engagement to the speakers here for their time.
And, you know, again, keep yourself involved in what they're doing.
Yeah.
I also wanted to just give everyone a quick opportunity before we wrap up to let the community
know where they can participate in your project whether it's investing in your tokens
where you're traded um and when you're on a space like this where people are changing the world and
bringing so much value uh you know this is where you find out about things first this is where you
get involved with projects early and you get to see that you know incredible growth i personally
i'm a huge fan
of scale. I've been following you guys since you were a little baby token. And it's great to see
your, you know, what, 20x growth in the last couple of years. And, you know, the packet community who
have been graciously following, supporting, investing on the packet side, obviously,
you've seen incredible growth as well.
Packets traded on Maxi and BitMart.
Scale, do you want to let people know, or Ben, do you want to let people know where you guys are at and ShopEx, etc.? We'll just go down the line.
Yeah, I urge anybody who's, you know, been curious about what's been said today to check us out on our website scale.space
s-k-a-l-e.space um you know we and then also to you know follow us on twitter we've got
announcements going out almost on a daily basis now about some really cool projects that are being
uh released across the spectrum a lot of projects in the AI space, the deep end space, and as well as games. So, you know, and a little bit of a spoiler alert that I might get in trouble for saying this, but we do have some DeFi initiatives coming out in the coming months. But it's just really an exciting time to be involved in Web3. I think everybody here has, has probably felt the weight of the past couple of years.
So, now it's time to really kind of keep supporting
one another and working together
to kind of further decentralize the system
and revolutionize what we've got going on in the world.
Yeah.
I want to bring in some more speakers that, you know, haven't been able to speak up that much since the beginning. We still have time, you know, to have an open discussion, but we have Tilted Store. Sarah, do you feel like answering a question? I know your voice is kind of... Yeah, absolutely. Happy to answer any question.
And this topic really resonates with me.
Yeah, so again, the topic of the space is how does Web3
end corporate greed? And Web3 gaming is something that's really big
on my mind as I've worked with a lot of Web3 games in the space for a long time.
And you guys are doing some cool stuff there.
So, you know, as a gamer myself and knowing a lot of gamers and being plugged into that community,
I know that gamers are really, you know, sick of what AAA studios and the corporate atmosphere around that. And, you know, if you
really know what's going on, you can see like how it affects the games and the gamers every day. So
how does Tilted store, how's Web3 Gaming help gamers and, you know, how are you guys
doing something to fix that?
Yeah. So, you know, these, I think the big problem with games is that you you just don't
own your own games anymore and you really have no control even if you keep giving them all your
money and it's difficult like with the utility you can't do much with it as well um you can if
you have your own server and you really put in
a lot of effort, you can get around it. Um, you're never going to get around the primary sales,
but there's a lot you can do with the secondary sales. And I think just kind of coming to that
realization of all the work that I would have had to have done just to get some, um, ownership of, of some assets, um, which
I think became really prevalent in that halo and destiny to, um, game skins. Um, and I don't know
if anyone is familiar with it, but essentially you were able to, um, play your halo guns inside destiny too. And this became kind of a meme and
was cool because gamers could have some utility outside of, um, halo for their, for their guns.
And so, um, you know, why can't every single player have a similar experience? Why can't we also have the experience
of investing in our games where we can become liquidity providers to a liquidity pool and
take the ownership back from these big publishers who are really squeezing us and taking all of the profits for themselves.
It's also very unfair for game developers. You can be so creative and have the best games, but
if you don't go through their squeeze-you system of taking everything from you, just enough for
you to break even, just barely enough to launch your
game, then you can't get on their platforms like Steam that will leave the game developers with
30%. Or even if you go into the UGC with the more friendly publishers like Roblox, you're still left with only being able to earn 30%.
So, you know, we believe that that should be in it and absolutely can be with our technology and,
you know, it works. So, you know, we've proven the product market fit. We've proven that the
tech works and there's no reason that we can't raise a hundred billion, um, and become the biggest liquidity pool for every,
um, web to digital asset in the world. And why, why wouldn't we, I mean, every single gamer wants
to own their games and they want to be able to maybe get out of some of their skins, sell it to
somebody else or trade it with somebody else so you know but you shouldn't
have to you know remove your skins from your game to do that you should they should be able to play
them as much as they want and make it a fun environment so you know that's why we wanted
to build Tilted and really to address this problem of essentially corporate greed with large game publishers.
Yeah, it really comes down to middlemen.
A lot of what humans need to do in their daily lives has moved online.
And service providers online have, I guess,
inflated their importance or their egos. they've gotten to the point where they think that we all need them so they can charge whatever they want and they can do whatever they want.
And I want to pass this on to block apps and then to a state X, you know, this idea of the middleman and like how we've been.
middlemen and like how we've been,
the average investor,
the average person just has no control over what's going on.
And I know block after you guys are in RWAs,
estate X is technically in RWAs.
So block apps,
like how do you think web three is leveling the playing field for the average investor and bringing power and money back to the people?
I think that's one of the fun things, especially with all these projects right now, is that democratization and kind of addressing some of the middlemen. And that's where by allowing for tokenization, allowing for fractional
investments are all ways to kind of continue to bring and spread some of that power into a broader
community and kind of bringing up what Carson had spoken about earlier as far as, you know, self-sovereignty and power over your own data
and possessions. And earlier as well with the State X, I love what they're doing as far as the
educational component. And even being in a space like this with everybody, it's so great to be
able to learn about different projects, different innovations, what other teams are building as well.
But it's also important for
us to learn about, and I think it was interesting, anytime you start kind of digging into the
sauce for payment providers or for the financial system, you can learn a lot of how
a little bit antiquated, a little bit dysfunctional it is, and then equally
sometimes see, you know, the forest for the trees and how blockchain can really
help that efficiency, you know, that functionality, that convenience, and you
know, help to solve and make for a better community and a better level that we
can all interact together.
Yeah, no, 100%. I completely agree with that.
I mean, actually, there are some shocking, shocking statistics in my home country, the
Netherlands, for example, where I live.
It's actually that the average 30-year-old can't even purchase his own home.
We have an epidemic, really, of 30-years-old who really can't start their own life,
can't build something up because there's a huge housing shortage in my home country and people are forced to still live with their parents at 30 years old.
Also, there was a research actually conducted with the result two and a half weeks ago and this is
crazy guys that you now have to earn 2.5 times of the average income to be able to qualify for
mortgage in levels which is absolutely absolutely crazy and one of the beautiful things obviously
about tokenization is democratizing uh and obviously lowering the entry
barriers right so everyone can get on the property ladder for everyone interested i mean
the the gap between the rich and the poor is just getting bigger and bigger and it's shocking
actually um you know the rates of inflation is going through the roof uh people can't get on
the property ladder or purchase their own home and let alone invest into something like this, right?
People are starting to earn more and more and more money than they've ever earned before.
But they're getting poorer and poorer because they're purchasing power.
They are just completely losing it with a low interest rates and the rate of inflation.
So that's a huge, huge problem for people getting poorer and poorer and they can do less and less with their money and then it indeed like what you said it all comes down to education um because there are
solutions out there and the solution like block apps to invest into silver uh which i actually
we had a great call with my partner yesterday with your team uh speaking about how that's now
outperforming bitcoin as well which is amazing but which is amazing. But it's just a matter of letting people know
that the solutions are out there, right?
What we do is we loan the entry barrier.
We make the Web 2 to Web 3 transition so smooth
that it's just like ordering something from Amazon.
You're just swiping through the investment opportunities
like it's Tinder.
You're adding to your basket.
And within a couple of clicks,
you can be a real estate investor
and being able to earn passive income, earn potential capital appreciation, earn the rental income and start letting your money work for you and actually earn instead of losing money.
And then with the other features that we have, obviously, you know, lending.
So instant access to finance, being able to get liquidity out of your property immediately
for leveraging purposes. And then with the education, that's part of creating generational
wealth for people to come and starting to put the power back in the hands of the investors
and let them again earn and create their generational wealth and get out of that
financial slur that everybody is in right now.
So it's a really, really important part of what we do. So we're launching end of the month. So
just Kurt, back on your point, definitely make sure to check us out. We're launching out payment
a utility token, which is facilitating the revolutionary state space system, which you
can pay with your real estate investment, which could actually make banks redundant
in a bit if you think about it,
because now you have the possibility
to not put your money on the bank and lose money,
like I said, due to inflation,
but you can earn passive income,
earn capital appreciation,
but at the same time make it so liquid
that you can actually do your groceries
with that same investment.
The token that facilitates that
is launching on exchanges end of the month.
We closed CDFI as our launchpad partner. Brock Pierce, the founder of USDT, has invested and
come on board. He's also adding his property portfolio to the platform. So really exciting
times. www.estatex.eu. Check us out. Join the Telegram. Our community manager is 24-7 active.
And yeah, great to be in the space and
lovely to hear all the amazing stories from everyone it really is all about access whether
that is um having enough money to invest in something um you know like investing in a house
you have to put down a huge down payment and and you know have huge mortgage not everybody can do that and i'm pretty uh estate
x can uh does fractional ownership right yeah well but hey kurt i i you know i just want to
make a clarity here tokenization is not going to prevent inflation in fact it might accelerate it
you know the reason why we have inflation and the reason why that in the netherlands it's two and a
half times you have to make more money in order to afford something is because of debt debt is literally the the catalyst for a lot of the stuff we're in it's the genesis of
everything and this is why i love bitcoin because there's no debt in bitcoin and i know there's some
defy projects here and there are really good defy projects out there but in general i'm not a big
fan of defy because we're just creating more derivatives and other instruments that are going
to create other issues that we've seen in the Web 2 world and the Web 3 world.
We need to be mindful of what we're doing in Web 3 so we don't fall into the same traps we fell in Web 2.
So, for instance, if you issue debt, meaning I could issue debt beyond a reserve.
So when we got off the gold reserve currency in the U.S., I could start issuing debt
at a pace faster than there are actual assets to back it. And if I do that, that it could inflate
asset prices. So the price of homes are skyrocket high because banks are giving out more debt
than they should. There's no checks and balances on that. Where's the debt coming from? Have you
ever asked yourself that question? This is the reason why the US isn't $35 trillion in debt and it's been increasing and we haven't
balanced our budget since Bill Clinton.
That was 30 years ago.
So it's just one thing to think about.
One of the reasons why I really love Bitcoin and we have to remember the core of what Satoshi
was doing.
I don't want to make this a Satoshi.
Oh, it was his core vision as a payment as BCA, whatever.
But the fact that the matter is there was a finite supply of a currency and it's not a currency currency is a
Misnomer, let me this is also very important for everybody to understand the difference between a currency and money
Currency is a centralized issued money
Meaning a central entity issues a currency money is something that just exists out there like gold. Gold is money. Cattle
is money. Bitcoin, I would consider it to be money. But go look at the dictionary Webster
definition of currency and money, and you'll see there's a big difference between the two.
So we need to start moving away from currency-based systems. I know we're all cryptocurrency. I think
it's just a misnomer um and something we missed
and into more and money type of system like bitcoin because there are no loans there's no debt
in bitcoin in itself i know there's other protocols that do derivatives and you could you know wrap
bitcoin into other or whatever but at the end of the day if you can't issue debt you're not
going to get inflated prices which is not going to put people like in the Netherlands that they have to make two and
a half times more to be able to afford a mortgage.
Tokenization is not going to solve that.
Removing debt will.
Yeah.
Don't get me started on the financial instruments coming into Web3.
Liquid staking, loans, all that, derivatives.
It's ruining it.
But Bart, what were you going to finish?
Yeah.
I mean, it's a great story and it's partially true.
I mean, if you want to get into the specific situation about the Netherlands,
then what you say is not the reason.
The reason is more with the local regulations,
a lot of foreigners coming in, etc.
So that's a whole different story about why you now need to earn two and a half times more.
It's not necessarily Debt that is the main reason because of that reason.
Yeah, no, I mean, I partially definitely agree with him.
I mean, debt is a huge, huge problem.
I think the U.S. is definitely a world apart compared to the rest of the world
or with Europe or with smaller European countries where we are active in.
So, yeah, I mean, it's definitely crazy.
And I do agree we need to get on these, you know, a whole different currency system if you want to solve that issue.
How that's done is obviously a story apart.
It might be long, far away from that, but maybe even not.
You never know what's going to happen.
I mean, tokenization, yes, it could partially be that, but I think it also really depends on the structure you're doing.
If you're really tokenizing debt and using debt, then yes. i think it's just a matter of what it comes down to again
is education letting people know how to use good debt like the rich do how to build out your asset
portfolio how to leverage that the reason why there is so much debt why people get in debt is
obviously because they're not um used to how to leverage debt and how to use that for
for the goods um but if you if you if the people have that it's it's sorry sorry i was not finished
it's it's a it's definitely a myth um it's definitely not good for the debt if people
are you know taking out loans and debts to buy the latest playstation
or to buy a new car that's how you're definitely going to ruin yourself um tokenization i definitely
think could be a hedge against inflation um definitely because of the reason that instead
of keeping your money on the bank or taking out a loan to get the newest car you're now you know
building your property portfolio or your silver portfolio or your gold portfolio or whatever you
choose to invest in
and start earning and letting your money work for you instead of the other way around and spend your money on nonsense and dumb things.
Yeah, just a scenario.
If you thought that everybody in the world was able to understand debt and be very responsible and fiscally responsible with how they use debt,
meaning that they invested into assets to see the appreciation go up.
If everybody did that, the system would break.
The only reason why debt works is because the elite get richer by putting their
money into assets that grow and then other people buy other things.
That's how it grows, right?
The whole way of debt is the income inequality is starting from debt.
And like, sorry sorry i'm a
recovering economist i was an economist in school i worked for the federal reserve and deloitte
consulting and other places so i i it's just something i just want to make sure people
understand is that like yeah what you're saying is absolutely right i i do that too bart and
everybody should because that's the game we're in right now the game we're in right now we need to be smart about debt but if we want to solve this debt problem we're not we're
just solving a symptom rather than going for the jugular which is restructuring a whole economy
and not only the economy but how it plays into with our government because the government has
a hand in our economy or the other way around the economy has a hand in the government to pass laws to keep the monopolies in place.
So that lobbying is an issue. The systematic issue is bigger than just, hey, tokenization or debt.
It's just the way the rules are written right now. So everybody here has to play by those rules.
So what Bart's saying is absolutely true. But if you want to make a change, and this is the whole point of Web3,
is that we want to change, we can't put lipstick on a pig because that's all we're going to be doing is we're going to bring
in the same problems in Web2 into Web3. We need to fundamentally change the structures of how
liquidity, how economies are formed and how they're incentivized. Because if I'm incentivized
as a human to do what's best for me and a corporation is incentivized to do what's best for them and the incentives are not aligned, we're always going to get this mismatch.
But if we rewrite the laws and the code and economics and our economy and the government to align the incentives of individuals, corporations and the government that whatever we're all incentivized to do is going to create a society that benefits all of us.
That's the game. That's the game that's the
game winner right there and and i know like ethereum has been trying to do it with their
east magicians scale you have a governance mess a governance that you just talked about
shit like that is going to help us get out of where we're at right now um and tokenization
is going to protect us like bart saying but it's not necessarily going to solve the problem
and that's that's a really important distinction to remember.
I think a big part of it is when you talk about restructuring society, it does start
at those levels of tokenizing real estate, tokenizing assets, recreating e-commerce,
Decentralizing assets, recreating e-commerce, restructuring web through gaming in general, decentralizing the internet.
All these things put together all of a sudden.
Maybe not any of them individually are the solution, but now all of a sudden we have a new system that is created by the people for the people.
The money is going to the people and not being filtered to the corporations. I think that at that point, yeah, we could just
change the law because we'll be in charge.
I think what ShopEx is saying is very important. And I think it's something that people should be
focused on. If I would reword it perhaps a little bit, I would say that, you know, it's a big
problem that you have a central bank who can decide which banks they're going to backstop
and which ones they're not.
They, they decide who to issue licenses to.
And those, those banks are able to issue debt that's backstopped by the money printer.
And then like, that's just picking winners and losers.
You know, they're able to literally plan the economy.
They can decide who who's going to be able to be a Warren Buffett and who's never going to open a business because they're never able to borrow the money to do it.
And I think that is something that like we need to keep a focus on the fact that our our Western economies literally are centrally planned.
It hasn't changed.
And the ability of a central bank to issue money
and then lend it to the government
and then use the tax system to collect on that,
that's so insidious that, I mean,
there's really nothing that can be that nasty.
It's not even like, and I get it, the debt, like the
fundamental structure of fixed income assets is risky. It's fragile because they go bankrupt and
they create a cascading effect and so on. But above and beyond that, the fact that you have
central banks, which are able to print money and then invent debt, and then
they can go around and you take a small amount of actual gold, for example, and you go issue
everybody a credit for their house, and now you've got everybody paying you, and you didn't need that
much money to get the thing started. But once it's running, you have now set the price of land and you now
print the currency that the world uses. And that's kind of a scam. And I think that that's
something that we need to keep a focus on as we're creating a new system.
Yeah, I think that's so important to understand from the education standpoint. And that was the purposeful
creation of the central bank system and to moving to a fiat currency system and away from a sound
money system. And that's part of what also, you know, a lot of our projects are allowing for
is to really address that. And I think it's a funny old adage, but, you know, the rich don't work for
money. They work for assets. And what we're all doing, and I think with the focus on real world
assets or democratized commerce, is to be able to, again, allow for that empowerment of individuals
and communities away from some of these systems that have been created to support the few rather than support the many
and allow for more fairness, you know, across a community structure.
I wrote about this a lot in the past, and that is going back to what Caleb was saying about the whole scam, you know, I think the, um, the system that was created,
it wasn't necessarily intended to be a scam. I'm sure the people in power along the way,
you know, wanted to hold power and everything, but, you know, you have this system that sort
of evolved through a little bit through greed, a little bit through necessity, a little bit through
the tools we had at the time and just what we're stuck with now. So I think it's always important to remember, like, you know,
it's not necessarily, what do you call it,
Illuminati, you know, plot since the 1700s.
Like, we just need to, as the adults in the room,
figure out what's next.
So I think a lot of it is just the system we have in place is a snowball.
They're kicking the can down the road.
You know, the Fed, like the printing of the money and everything.
That's like we just have to come up with a better system that can replace it wholeheartedly.
Like replacing it like as a whole because people are lazy and, you know, no offense to them. Like I'm lazy too.
It's hard to jump into something that is difficult to use. Web3 needs to be easy to use. It needs to
be like a really functioning well-oiled system. And if we can replace it and make something better,
I think it'll be, it'll be perfectly easy. So, you know, all the projects here are doing that.
And it's, I'm glad to be a part of this. I would agree with you. And I would just say like, you know, whether or not it was,
there was some kind of a conspiracy essentially doesn't matter. The gold standard bears within
it the seeds of its own demise because everybody needs to eventually put the gold with the gold
Smith and then the gold Smith issues the gold certificates and then he inflates the gold
certificates. And then we're right back where we are now.
You know, the reason why we have the 20th century is because before the 20th century,
everybody used gold.
Now we have cryptocurrency where everybody can take self-ownership.
They can have the, you know, not your keys, not your coins.
You can have your own coins in your pocket.
And I'm kind of singing the praise of the Bitcoin standard here.
I'm kind of singing the praise of the Bitcoin standard here, but like that's just this is a new era from where we were that led to what the trouble that we got into.
Yeah. So there's one word that really jumps out at me when it comes to blockchain.
And it's like technology has drastically changed the way we govern ourselves.
And I don't think our government was ready.
And I agree with Caleb.
It doesn't matter if it was, you know, intended to be this way or we just kind of fell ass
backwards into where we are now.
We're here now, right?
So we have to see and collect and make a conscious decision on how we want to move forward.
But one thing that blockchain does that solves a lot of the things is governance. If I
had to describe the word blockchain in one word, it would be governance. It's not money. It's not
payment. It's not tokenization. It's proper governance. And that governance will let us
collectively in a digital world be able to govern certain things without having a central entity
make decisions unilaterally for everybody else. And the more we could start putting things that need governance on the chain, so tokenization
for things that require governance is important.
And the last thing I'll say is this, is that we're all a bunch of cool guys and girls sitting
here talking about decentralization and the revolution will be decentralized and everything
like that.
But I will caution us not to go overly decentralized because I could see 100 years from now,
another Twitter spaces like this with the other smart kids sitting around and being like,
fuck this decentralized world.
Things are way too decentralized.
Things aren't moving, progressing.
We can't respond to incidences too fast, right?
We need to find a balance.
It's a pendulum that swings.
And it's been swinging back and forth all of humanity, right?
So we're over centralized right now for sure but let's not overshoot a proper equilibrium or balance
going into decentralization and finding a balance that will help society move forward and innovate
and grow while still keeping you know the governance and people having a voice to be able to have an impact on how society
conforms and regulates itself. Oh, let me talk about the packet voting system right now, because
yeah, it's all about governance. We created in the packet project the ability to vote. So there's
this thing called the network steward. It's kind of like a founders fund or a development fund.
It just goes, but it's an elected thing.
It's supposed to be decentralized.
It's supposed to, whoever it goes to,
is supposed to be the will of the community.
And we have created a voting system
where the community gets to vote
on who's gonna receive the payout.
But what I'm really psyched about with this voting system,
and we just went live,
like, I don't know, less than a month ago. We've only had about, yeah, we've had about four votes
so far. And this system, what I'm super psyched about is the fact that if you vote for somebody
and either they don't want a candidate or they don't win, then your vote gets carried along with them to
whoever they voted for. So the chance that your vote is thrown away because you voted for a third
party or like your actual opinion is not heard, your voice is not heard, is really low. And so
we have this really cool dynamic where people can vote for literally
the person in the community that they trust the most. And you don't have to do party politics
and be like, oh, I need to vote for him because otherwise the other guy's going to get in.
Like, you don't need to do any of that. And it's just like this great leap forward in voting because
it's just this one thing that you give, you create the ability to delegate a vote.
I love what you guys are doing.
We need more people like that to think things through. There's a book you need to read called
Radical Markets. It talks about quadratic voting. So that system works out great in the initial,
but that system could falter over time when people have accumulated a lot of tokens or power.
Then you could implement some things like quadratic forwarding. If you haven't
heard of it, read it. It's really fucking cool. I've dabbled in it. But man, I'm tipping my hat
to you. I love what you're doing. Well, thank you. We are still a proof of work blockchain.
You know, we're not we're not going down the road of everything is voting and everything is stake
where one person can end up with all the coins and control everything. You know, it's only 20% of the coins that go to this system.
But yeah, I mean, I was very well aware that there's a lot of risk when you start fooling
around with proof of stake and that type of stuff.
But just having this ability to create like a community consensus, that's what I'm so
psyched about.
It's not even like the little, the funding, the ability to create like a community consensus. That's what I'm so psyched about. It's not even like the little, the funding,
the ability to create community consensus
within a blockchain community
where people are actually like saying,
we agree that this is the person
that should lead us for the next week.
And by the way, there's actually an election coming tonight.
It's gonna happen today.
And everybody that votes like you vote and your vote just stays and it rolls over one going to happen today. And everybody that votes, like you vote and your vote just
stays and it rolls over one week to the next. But it will, today's the day for the election.
I have to say that, you know, as the guy who was elected and participating in this community,
this is like, aside from ShopX, which is, you know, my community, PKT is the most interesting
community I've ever been a part of.
And not just because, you know, they're giving me their attention, but like this, this function
and, you know, how educated the community is, how, you know, involved they are.
PKT is the most interesting community I've ever been part of.
I'm definitely glad to be voted in so far and hope to keep going for my last week. Also, Caleb, I wanted to mention
something from what you said earlier. Completely speaking my language, and I've said this in an
article before, that we have a planned economy and that back in the day when, you know, when America first really took off and we were like, we had real free markets and capitalism.
And, you know, the Soviets, they had their market planning.
Now, now we have market planning.
And, you know, for all the, you know, boasting we've done over the years, like we've gone into that route.
And what all it comes down to is a couple of people in the back room making all the decisions.
And what all it comes down to is a couple of people in the back room making all the decisions.
So if we can go back to a free market, you know, I'm not like a capitalism maxi or anything like that.
But yeah, we have definitely slipped into you.
I like I love that you said that market planning is definitely absolutely what we have now.
And it kind of doesn't work.
So we see that doesn't work.
Yeah, because it's centralized and centralized things don't work because everything is more
complicated than you think it is.
And then there's corruption.
So like, first you add the complexity that one human can't comprehend the complexity
of a market.
And then you add the corruption that he's not going to work for the benefit of everybody
because there's a million different pressures that are put on him to do different things.
And voila, you have a system that doesn't work.
Exactly right. Have you ever heard of the prisoner dilemma?
Oh, yes, absolutely.
I think I applied the concept of the reverse prisoner dilemma to Web3.
I think Web3 is the reverse prisoner dilemma to Web3. I think Web3 is the reverse prisoner dilemma
where instead of everyone acting in their best interest
is to their detriment,
I think Web3 creates an environment
where everyone acting in their best interest
actually helps the ecosystem.
Well, because the ecosystem's interest
is also what's the best interest of the individuals because it's a network effect.
If the individuals aren't happy on the network, they're going to leave and the system will fall apart.
Right.
This is what I was saying earlier.
We need to design the systems so it incentivizes both the system as a whole, the governing body, the government, whatever, a corporation, to be aligned with an individual.
So as an individual, what I do, what's best for me, it's also best for the system.
And whatever the system does as a best for the system is also best for an individual.
That sort of alignment and incentives will usher us into this next evolution of society
where we see more things like merit-based economies or a perfectly competitive market
quickly competitive market and walk away from these oligopolies and monopolies that are playing
and walk away from these oligopolies and monopolies that are playing us right now.
us right now yeah i just want to add one piece to that which is you know the requirement for
there to be infrastructure that can achieve that i think you know we've it's being if you've been
in blockchain since at least 2016 2017 you know you've heard a lot of the ideation and the lofty, you know, pontification, if you will, about how to achieve this.
But there's not a lot of rubber meets the road infrastructure around making some of this stuff possible. porting itself as this, you know, decentralized network where anyone can build, you know, it's had extreme scalability issues with gas fees, with, you know, having to pay in any type of
network traffic, even hundreds of dollars to buy something. I mean, we were supposed to look at
crypto as a, as a mitigant for, you know know the friction with trans transferring money and then or value and then
you know if you want to buy an nft that costs two dollars but it costs 50 50 gas fee like that's not
even you know solving anything it's actually creating a new problem. And when you come down to payment processing, I mean, payment
processing in e-commerce is such a critical part of the global economy, let alone the infrastructure
side, which is even getting access to the internet and how much you have to pay to even have an
internet connection to a centralized company who's controlling the last mile,
you know, even from public infrastructure, like the telephone pole, you know, to your home,
for internet that they don't even own, you know, yes, they maintain maybe the wires and what have
you, but it's like the internet is actually meant to be decentralized, like innately. And so
to be decentralized, like innately. And so projects that are addressing this, but also,
you know, where the rubber meets the road, actually giving people a solution that doesn't
have a corporate intermediary, I think is also really key. And so it's been cool hearing everyone
talk about how to actually solve some of these problems. I know that on the packet side, and my background being
in the film and entertainment business, huge problems with media distribution. Now we see
movie distribution really consolidated around the major streamers. So they've become not only
gatekeepers to get access to content, but then on behalf of the content creators, they're taking, you know, at a minimum 30% distribution fee just for our platform fee for being on an Amazon or an iTunes.
And then they have aggregator distributors that are the ones feeding the content to them.
the content to them so then you have to pay the distributor and um pretty much a hundred to
So then you have to pay the distributor.
several hundred percent of the revenue gets chewed up before it ever makes it down to the content
creator for major movies uh tv shows we know that this is a systemic issue e-commerce has the same
problem where if you want to sell something you need a shopify platform um and even if you go with
a decentralized solution like um or an open source
solution excuse me like like wordpress then you still need a payment processor and you still need
a bank account and and that's a huge problem for uh you know even my brother and i launching a pet
cbd business or launching a mining company business where we need a bank account and you know we get de-platformed by square you know
paypal etc so you know packet just has launched a new solution that is making it possible for
people to build websites within the packet network um it's it gets a little bit technical but the
basics of it are is that anyone could build a website, you know, using WordPress. It exists within the packet network.
It's accessible to the overall, to the world at large using what's called a reverse VPN.
So the VPN actually routes the access to that website back out to traditional web browsers.
But what's really cool is that you can also connect a packet wallet to the web url so payments can be made directly to the wallet
holder the web host without any intermediary any gateway intermediary and there's no gas fees or
um or payment processing transaction fees in the middle of that transaction and so we just found
that to be really a fascinating way to empower people to, you know, take ownership of their,
of their community, of their e-commerce and, you know, have the censorship resistance to be able
to do what they want on the web without having to, you know, bow down to a bank or a payment
processor to, to transact with your, with your business. Definitely speaking shop x's language there um as far as e-commerce
yeah absolutely yeah we're sort of coming up at the end here i think the listeners are starting to
uh glaze over a little bit uh thanks everybody for for being here and listening i think it's
been a super awesome conversation as As we get to the end,
if there's anyone here who has anything they would like to finish off with,
we have Tilted, Block Apps,
Saedex, ShopEx.
Do you guys have any closing thoughts
before we start wrapping up?
It's okay if not.
Yeah, no, definitely.
I mean, it was definitely a very interesting
discussion and i do agree with shop x definitely i think to come back on that uh the solution is
definitely going to be to put a new currency system in place until then it's uh it's playing
the game right until the decision makers um decide it's time to do it you have no other choice than
to play the game
to the best of your abilities.
And that's what Estadex is for,
to hand people the tools within this game.
And obviously, when the moment is there,
everyone will adapt, the business will adapt,
Estadex will adapt, and we'll see that until then.
It's part of the course for Estadex,
and our responsibility to inform people as much as we can
to better people's situations.
And that's what we're all here for.
So love to speak with like-minded people trying to make the world a better place.
And it was an absolute pleasure, guys.
Yeah, and I'd just like to piggyback on that and thank the awesome conversation that was had. And equally, I think as we kind of all
navigate, you know, the time going forward until, you know, some of these projects and some of these
movements kind of gain a little bit more hold, we're all able to now interact in a different way
and get exposure to different assets and not solely have to hold fiat currency. So whether it's Bitcoin or
tokenized real estate or the opportunity to allocate to gold or silver easily and build
your own central bank and empower your own financial standings, it's all an opportunity
that we've never had before and it hasn't been easier. so you can check out block apps you can check us on
follow us on telegram and discord as well as if you're looking for silver that can positively
impact you know small communities and places all across the world you can check out cns.blockapps.net
for carbon neutral silver as well as all different types of tokenization efforts on the Mercado
marketplace as well. So thanks again. It was an awesome, awesome space.
Thank you. Yeah, thank you for hosting, Kurt. We really, we appreciate you for sure.
Thanks, Kurt. Thanks, Packet and everybody else. This was an awesome conversation.
I'm really excited to make some new friends.
I could tell we're all the same path and journey.
One of the things I really like about Web3,
and I guess I do have a closing statement,
because I've been in the space since 2014,
and I've seen a lot of tribalism come up.
Oh, Ethereum is better than scale.
Scale is better than EOS.
EOS is better than whatever.
There's a place and space for everybody in this space, oh, Ethereum is better than scale, scale is better than EOS, EOS is better than whatever, right?
There's a place and space for everybody in this space. And I really implore all of us to collaborate and work together because the ethos of Web3 is about the network effect and interoperability and working together on certain issues.
So, you know, everybody here and everybody I've heard on this panel speak, I feel like not only with ShopX, but, you know, there's some collaboration opportunities I see with companies outside of ShopX.
Just reach out to one another.
Reach out to me.
I'd love to talk to you all.
I'd love to help out as much as I can, add value and vice versa. And if we kind of have this, you know, paid forward mentality, you know,
over time, we'll start to see the macro whole of the world change because the micro informs the
macro always and everything you do in your life, do it in the micro. And then over time, the micro
will inform the macro. And if we start doing this, we'll start to see the world change the way we
want. For sure. And, you know, if then there's a lot of questions about people will say, well, what can I do today?
Well, you know, head over to all these projects, websites, see how you can interact with their offering, hold their tokens or coins in your in your portfolio for the next bull run and just be part of the of the sea change that all these entrepreneurs are working towards.
that all these entrepreneurs are working towards.
And that is always a great thing.
I mean, within the world of meme coins today,
there's also projects that are legitimately focusing on changing the world.
You don't need to worry about them going to zero
when you have entrepreneurs waking up every day,
grinding and pushing these agendas and missions forward.
So definitely from the audience standpoint, these are exciting projects to be a part of.
It's always great to be here and hear about these agendas and roadmaps early on and be
part of that ride as we enter into this next bull run.
Yeah, thanks guys. Tilted, anything real, as we enter into this next bull run. Yeah. Thanks guys. Uh, tilted anything real quick before we end.
Sarah, if you're still, uh, I know Sarah is a little sick, but, um, yeah,
thanks everybody for coming. Um, definitely a great conversation.
I definitely have, I didn't know much about Caleb,
but now I see that he's definitely an ace. You guys have, you know,
really strong team here at PKT.
I think I'm going to do the network steward update just in the chat.
I'll let this close up.
Thanks, everybody, for coming.
Yeah, pick up packet on Max C, and we'll see you guys on the next one.
Yeah, definitely should
do something. Let's do another
roundtable again. I think people like talking.
I love it. Yeah, it was great. It was great
having all these luminaries
on the stage. So, yeah, let's
make it happen, Kurt. Cool.
All right. Take care, everyone.
Later, guys.
Bye. Cheers, guys. later guys bye cheers guys
