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$PKT Community Roundtable Discussion
Recorded: March 20, 2024 Duration: 1:02:33Space Recording
Full Transcription
Music
Music Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, Packeteers. Welcome to the PKT Community Roundtable. Super excited for everyone
to be here today. We're going to do something a little
different this time around. As you all can see, we have some new speakers and have quite a lot
of community members joining today. So super excited to have you all here. I wanted to kind
of introduce some of the guest speakers that are here today. We have Rain, ASCRD, we have CryptoVonDoom,
OXSweep, and World of Merkek. Yeah, really excited to have everybody here today because
Packet is doing something really extraordinary. And it's these type of community roundtables that bring us all together
so that we can, you know, just share all the amazing things that the community has been
working on. We have Josh Berger, Caleb James Delisle, Jesse Berger, myself, Jeremy Berger,
we're all here to kind of just spread the awareness of what we're doing. And yeah, I think it's really,
really important, this project and what it does for the decentralized web space. That's what is
missing in the world right now. Everything's so censored. And I think that what Packet is doing
right now is really on the forefront of changing the narrative
on how people access the internet.
And so we have something new that happened over the last couple weeks
and this is I'm pretty sure week three of our new network steward elect.
And basically what that means is the packet network for every block that's
mined in the blockchain, 20% goes to the network steward and those funds get used to better the
network, build technology. And in this instance, we're working on marketing. And that's why you see
these guest speakers and all the new things that are popping
up here. And that is really what is super, super exciting because we've never had that before.
And it's here and you can see the result of this marketing effort. And so to start things off,
I wanted to bring the new network steward up here.
His name's Kurt Ivey, along with his team. They're doing some amazing stuff. So I wanted to open the
floor and let Kurt kind of give an update on all the things that he's been working on. And then
from there, we'll go into kind of talking with some of the other guest speakers. So welcome to the stage, Kurt. Thank you. Can you accept Beacon on the stage
or Chris? Yeah, of course. You can wait if you want. No, no, no, absolutely. And yeah, Beacon,
I just brought him up. And there's some other people that are requesting to speak. I'm going
to ask you to hold your request to jump on the stage until we open the floor to community to come in and ask
questions, which I will do in just a bit. So if I see a bunch of requests popping up, just hold
your questions, write them down. And when the floor is open, I'll bring you on up.
All right, Kirk, floor is yours.
Awesome. Thank you. I'm pulling up my update right now.
Okay.
So, yeah, we, you know, tried to get as much done as we could in, you know, one week.
You know, early stage, we're trying to get influencers.
We're trying to get some attention from, you know,
alpha groups and everything.
So as we go on and as we evolve,
the plan will shift and we'll be bringing out more and more content.
But for now, the main thing we have done is bring on the influencers.
So I think you guys have probably seen the posts that have been going up. I think we got some really nice, really nice content out from the influencers. So I think you guys have probably seen the posts that have been going up.
I think we got some really nice, really nice content out from the influencers so far. We have
Rain. He posted a really nice write-up for us. We have Von Doom. He has a lot of connections to
alpha groups and, you know, he has a really solid community you know he's very respected
in his space we have sweep he's here right now thank you sweep for being here um also very
connected and i'm doing a lot of good things in the space um posted a tweet for us and then we
have marek um another good threader and then we have a couple other small ones that, you know,
aren't going to be, you know, here all the time,
but they'll be doing some retweets for us and everything.
Just trying to boost the engagement here and there where we need it.
And then we have Beacon DeFi.
I met Beacon.
There's Chris in the audience.
I met them at ETH Denver.
Super smart, super good team.
They do educational material for DeFi
and they probably have a decent amount of community here.
Not sure how much they brought,
but tell by the emojis that some of them are here.
So that's pretty cool getting some people
who are really interested in DeFi
and actually interested in technology coming through this community.
And we're working on a couple other collaborations I didn't want to put in the update because they're not nailed down yet.
They were going to come to the space, but yeah, so they're not nailed down yet.
So we didn't put them there yet.
So a couple other things we're doing.
I have a lot of different tools.
We're doing some mass DMs on Twitter, trying to get people's attention, get them in the space, get them to follow.
I can't see the stats, but I'm sure we got a decent amount of follows in the last couple of days.
We're updating the graphics.
The PK team has been doing graphics so far. We're going to be taking over the graphics,
doing some templates and some good visuals for PKT.
We'll be posting something every day to really make the PKT
Twitter look really nice, change the bio a little bit.
We really want to make sure that the messaging is on point. All the key words, key phrases,
make sure people really understand what PKT is all about. I think it's a really important
project. And if people hear it and understand it, they'll like it a lot.
And then me and the team discuss
strategies. And so coming up next
week, if we're elected again, hopefully,
fingers crossed, we have the 100X podcast. We contacted them because we saw that PKT
had contacted them. And, you know, we have a little bit more of a persistent marketing team
that goes after people. So able to get in contact with them. um yeah they agreed to set up a meeting so we
already got that going um it's a really good podcast they you know their listeners are really
interested in the technology not just like pumping they really like uh they really want to learn so
that's a great one for us that will be coming up soon um we will do a post in a sort of listicle that I get have an option for every week,
sort of like last minute time sensitive.
You know, this, this crypto is going to a hundred X overnight.
Yeah.
Something kind of quick and easy that I can get,
but more long-term things I'm working on is pitching to a lot of different
outlets we have warm connections to.
So that includes CoinDesk,
Telegraph,
Forbes,
Bloomberg,
TechCrunch.
And,
you know,
we'll pitch all of these guys.
They won't all say yes,
but we're trying to get interviews with the PKT team with them.
yeah,
I mean,
hopefully out of 15, 20 publications we pitch we can get two that would
be amazing to get like even one in tech crunch and like one in the economist that would be
well worth the spend and then the rest of them also have um i pitched directly to their email
so they'll that will be on their radar so it's not
like the rest of them will have been a waste so that's pretty that's pretty good for us
after that week moving on to the future we want to be focusing on the you know the the what PKT
can offer to people so we're going to be focusing mostly on the internet,
the website stuff,
seeing if we can get people to use the website,
you know, the hosting and everything,
and really get people using PKT for what it's actually for,
getting people to understand what that is
and to start getting, not signed up,
you know, depending on the tech's ready,
but getting
their awareness about it and seeing if we can get them interested to use it when it's ready so
we'll be making some video content around that but yeah yeah i'll give it a rest yeah that's
great thanks kurt really appreciate it and i think that's a really great segment uh way into
kind of bringing jesse up to the stage and have him
kind of talk a little bit more about, you know, some interesting things like what makes
packets so important? You know, these are questions that I think are really necessary
for people to understand, especially a lot of the new people that are here on the space.
And like, and, and, you know, we've had some pretty incredible revelations over the last,
you know, few weeks and months understanding like how people are going to access this network.
And, uh, Jesse, if you want to jump on and kind of dive into what makes packets so important,
that'd be great.
Yeah, for sure.
Uh, thanks chair for the intro um yeah you know one of the kind of big hurdles for
for packet is articulating like literally just helping people understand what the heck it is
why it's important and and you know we realize like let like, let's just be candid here.
You know, we realize that in the crypto space, there's kind of always a convergence between game-changing technologies and number go up in terms of market cap.
And, you know, people want to invest in things that are game-changing, but, you know, people are also willing to invest in meme coins because
it's going to go to a $20 billion market cap and they can get rich. So it's always finding a
balance between the two things. When the founding community behind Packet got together, it wasn't
about just make number go up. It was literally about changing some key ingredients about how the
internet functions, which ultimately is, if you look at the size of a company like Google that
makes like $50 billion a month off of powering the internet search, it arguably makes Packet
one of the most important projects in the
entire world outside of the blockchain space like just on the on a global basis so what we're going
to talk about today is so big um and so monumental that it has the potential to provide effectively an alternative to the way that the traditional internet functions today.
And the way that that happens is using two key technologies.
One of the technologies is a mesh networking tech that Caleb James Delisle, who's one of
the speakers here today, invented actually back in 2011.
And that technology is called CJDNS.
And in fact, that technology was incorporated into Bitcoin Core, I think two years ago,
right, Caleb?
And the reason that was incorporated into Bitcoin Core was to ensure that Bitcoin blocks could be submitted
even in adversarial conditions, like making sure that miners were always able to get their
blocks submitted peer to peer. So it's like a resiliency, redundancy tool essentially,
so that you can just make sure you can always get access to the internet.
And that in the packet network is fundamental. That's essentially that technology, CJDNS,
is basically the, let's just call it the backbone of the packet network. And
we've been trying to figure out how to, how to communicate this so it doesn't like
stump people.
So it's not confusing.
Um, and we've been brainstorming continuously on how to explain this.
And, um, the best way to explain what makes the packet network unique is it's, it's essentially
a new corner of the internet that is completely
sovereign. Why is sovereignty important? Well, if you're not sovereign, then you're basically
being governed in some way by a third party. That third party could be a corporation like a google um or it could be a government like
russia or china um or north korea you know literally is like determining what their citizens
are able to see when they go on the internet well sovereignty in the case of the packet network
means that anybody who builds anything in the packet network will can ensure that that content
is accessible by anybody in the world who accesses the packet network without any filtering without
any prioritization without any you know seo uh it's just there and And that's pretty impactful if you think about globalization and the fact that people are selling goods and services around the world.
Well, if I do a search for something and I want to find, let's say, a business in Russia, there is a very good chance that I'm not going to find that when I search on my Google browser in California.
It's just not going to be there for me because Google is going to make a determination of what I want to find and what's going to be accessible.
And it's most likely just not going to be easy to find.
find. But in the pocket network, again, under the basis of this kind of global sovereignty
that the network provides, anybody can build anything. And it's literally just an open space
for people to build. Now, what are you building there? Well, you're building businesses. You're
building literally anything that can be a website, essentially.
Anything that uses the internet, anything that receives payments, so e-commerce, blogging.
WikiLeaks should have been built on the packet network because there's another key ingredient to the packet network that's finally emerging that, again, makes this project extremely unique and what that i think key differentiating
thing is that any website that's built in the packet network can use the web url as a payment
address and i mean i think this is just like when you're talking about new tech and people go oh
that's cute that you made something what what's the killer app? What's the game
changer? Why should I care? Well, just at the core, websites built in the packet network can use their
web URL as a payment address. And so what that means is that right now, when you do build a website it's given a web url the web url is not a good looking web url right
now it's it's using what's called an ipv6 address so it's kind of one it's kind of like numbers and
colons um but shortly in the future here um adding like dns will make it so people can have custom web URLs. And so where this gets to
is I could have jesse.pkt and someone can send me a hundred packet to jesse.pkt and I will receive
that in my packet wallet near zero fees. I mean, the packet network is essentially like
basically a clip above zero in terms of fees and 60-second block time and no payment intermediary,
no payment processing. It's just peer-to-peer payment. And this is huge because payments is a
big deal and payments is a big friction point. I mean, my business actually just the other day,
we had our payment processor send us a document that they said needed to be signed to be able to
keep our payment processor open. This is more of a traditional payment processor. They had the wrong address on this document that they wanted us to sign.
So we reached back out and said,
hey, this address that you're saying is my home address.
That's actually not my home address and nor is that the business address.
Can you please change it?
They said, sure, sent us another document with the same address on it.
So we printed the document, crossed out the address,
added the correct address, signed the document, sent it to them.
They said, no, it needs to be signed with a digital copy.
We did this back and forth for about a week, and then they canceled our payment processor.
With a bunch of money now stuck in limbo, you have to have a bank account.
We have a reserve, so they keep a percentage of our money that we make.
Payment processing is a huge problem. And that's for legitimate,
just a legitimate business that's just doing some e-com. So the power of just being able to accept
payment directly to your web URL is essentially monumental for humanity and web hosts and
e-commerce. And this shit is all built. This is all like real. This isn't hypothetical. This is here. So
Packet is essentially in our point of view, game changing for just the way people are able to do
e-commerce, the way that people are able to connect with one another and essentially creating an environment where businesses,
entrepreneurship, communications, blogging, all of this can converge on a global basis without
these behemoth intermediaries, Fortune 500, global 500 global 1000 companies and governments
limiting or governing what we're able to see and do on the internet so I you know
I think that's kind of the short explanation maybe not so short but it's
why we're pretty excited about this tech yeah thanks guys one thing I think that
is important that you should bring up I I think you might have missed it, is how people actually access the packet network.
Yeah, and this is the coolest part.
So a lot of people, it's funny, when we start talking about packet, you know, and the internet, and then you quickly realize that like most people, and I don't mean this in like a pedantic or cond condescending way, but most people literally don't even know what the internet is.
It's just like, what's the internet?
I mean, does Verizon give me the internet?
Or Spectrum or CockCable?
Where is the internet?
Where does it come from?
And the reality is that the internet is completely decentralized.
It's all of the above that makes the internet possible. It's all
these individual entities, people running under C cable, like all those things combined is what
makes the internet possible. But what's happened is that these major companies around the world,
you know, whether they be mobile companies or cable companies or fiber companies have gated access to the internet
because they run the infrastructure, like what we call the last mile infrastructure.
So because they either own the spectrum that gets you to the internet, so you have to pay
them a subscription fee to use it.
Or because they run the cable from the telephone pole to your home,
you have to pay them to use it. And so we think that they provide it for us. Actually,
it's provided by everyone collectively connecting to one another and these peering agreements that are between all these companies around the world that run the infrastructure. But then it's these
companies in the last mile that we as like consumers think that we have to pay for access.
And effectively we do, although there's a way that you can do it without that,
or you can do peer-to-peer mesh networking. And that's what the CJDNS network does. But the way
that you get access is you do go through a VPN. And the way that we use VPNs today is we say, hey, I want to look like I'm in, you know,
Texas, or I want to look like I'm in Netherlands. So, you know, or I want to access some geolocated
content. So I'm going to, you know, pretend like I'm coming out of this area. That's how we use
VPNs today. Well, with the packet network,
you actually access it through a VPN.
So it's an overlay network.
So you get to the packet network
by going on through whatever internet access you have.
And then it just takes you over to this,
like I said, the sovereign area
where people are able to build.
I like to almost think of it like
when America was first
founded and people came over and landed on the shores of the East Coast. And it was just like
all this free open land and you could just stake your land. Kind of like how some of these metaverses
have begun. Except the difference with metaverses is they're run by companies who have central
servers and you have to basically pay them for a plot of land well in the packet network you don't have
to pay for a plot of land and um it's completely open and anybody can build there and there's no
central intermediaries and there's no payment processing fees and you can just come and build
and the way you get there is through a vpn so the way it essentially works and what
we're building right now um to make it so anybody can build here is um actually i want caleb to talk
about this but he's gonna set up a service that will make it so people can go to a website click click, click, and get a VPS that has CJDNS on it.
And from there, you can just build any website using WordPress
that will exist in the packet network.
And then one of the key aspects of it,
because the packet network is this sovereign, unique area adjacent to the internet,
you would then choose this service to offer what's called a reverse VPN.
And the reverse VPN would make it so that the website
you build is just accessible and discoverable
through Google as well.
So like regular people going in through,
let's say their Safari or Google browser
can discover and find that website
using this reverse VPN technology.
So those are like the key pieces.
If you know anything about web, building a website or whatever, some of it's a bit complicated,
so I don't want to go too deep into it. But, you know, obviously you need to build a website,
you need someone to host that website. You obviously usually want to buy a URL. In the
packet network, you actually don't need to buy a URL. You can just use the CJDNS URL that's just granted to you.
And then, as I said, that website can be discoverable by anybody outside if you choose or only within the packet network if you just want that to have discoverability just within the network itself.
So some people do choose to do that, and it kind of gives a little privacy angle.
But those are – yeah, so hopefully that answers the question.
Yeah, thank you.
There's a lot more there to unpack.
Yeah, thanks so much, Jess.
Caleb, I'd love to hear from you about this kind of web couple click page that you're going to set up so that it makes it a little bit more user friendly for people to be able to build these websites on the packet network.
Hey, hey.
Yeah, well, if anybody.
If anybody, so I don't know how many of the people here in this chat, in this call, have like set up a website or something or self-hosted something or hosted something on a server somewhere.
But basically where we need to get to is we need a lot more self-hosting to start happening.
And, you know, there's, I want to kind of like talk a little bit about the
objective here. And, you know, we need to kind of back out and just realize that we're all
building the internet all the time. You know, everybody who's in tech is building the internet.
But basically, we're just building a giant surveillance network. And it's kind of not that bad because we get this
huge amount of freedom of speech on that network and we can pretty much do whatever we want.
But there could very easily come a time like, you know, when we finish building the surveillance
network that the powers that be just decide to lock the door and turn off that freedom of speech.
And now, you know, we've just built our own prison and then they just locked us in it.
And that's something we need to not allow to happen.
So I think everybody in the tech space needs to be thinking about decentralization,
because if we just allow everything to be centralized,
then we could very easily in the next 10 to 20 years end up locked in a cage that we literally built ourselves.
So how do we work around that is we need to get a lot more self-hosting to start happening.
And the point is, if you host like if you say, Oh, I don't want to have a website,
I'm just gonna, you know, I'm just gonna use Facebook, then if Facebook decides they don't
like what you're saying, then, you know, they're just going to delete it. And they can just delete
you. And you might not even be able to talk to your friends anymore, you know, because you just
been deleted. And, you know, that's, that's the,
that's the reality. And I mean, Twitter has a fair amount of freedom, but it's not perfect.
And the more that we can get things happening that are self-hosted, that are, you know, where
you're, you're either running the server in your house, you're hosting it like it's a small thing,
the more complicated it is to lock the door.
And I'm not talking about like self-hosting dissident stuff.
We need to get self-hosting of like really boring stuff
because we need to move the way that we interact with the internet
from big centralized silos that somebody can just one day decide they're going to lock the door to where everything is decentralized.
Everything is spread out all over everywhere.
And trying to lock the door in that case is just going to be brutally complicated.
brutally complicated. So there's like a couple of elements to this. One is obviously we need
So there's a couple of elements to this.
the wifi sharing and, you know, that's what Rowdy is really focused on. And then, you know,
the VPN, we have the Android VPN stuff. But getting it to where you can run your own web
services so that you don't need to use big centralized, big tech services as much.
That's the third kind of pillar.
And so what I'm hoping to do is to kind of get people into that by creating a little service where you can just like spawn a VM, a virtual server, and it will just have a CDNS address.
And you can then set up a little website on it and
you can start doing things and yeah it's going to be self-hosted by me but that's that's a lot
smaller than being self-hosted by like well not self-host by being hosted by like you know one
of the big five telecoms and if we can go from there and get that working,
then get that comfortable,
then we can move forward to where
maybe everybody can actually host websites
in their own house.
And that's where it starts to get really difficult
for somebody to come and turn this thing off
or not to turn it off,
but to lock it down to where, you know,
you can no longer communicate freely.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, that's great.
Sounds like we got a lot of work to do over here
to get this to, in the hands of all the people
who, you know, want that kind of decentralization in the web
and where their websites are hosted. And that's kind of a good segue into bringing Josh up to
kind of talk about Rowdy and the hard work that they're doing over there.
Let me just say one other one last thing. Most people don't know they want this yet.
Because and that's why we have to get out in front of it. Most people don't know they want this yet because, and that's why we have to get out in front of it.
Most people don't understand the importance of self-hosting because most people have never
had the experience of like trying to reach out to scream and they can't speak because
they've been silenced because the door hasn't been locked yet.
So like we're, we have to get
out in front of it. We have to understand something that most people do not understand
that they are going to need. And we need to create that so that when the time comes,
it's going to be ready. Yeah. I think it's funny because like, it's not just,
it's not just, um, you know you know like dissidents you know people that are
you know speaking out against the government and stuff like that that this is applicable to there's
actually a a guy that i follow um his name's steve will do it and he had an epic youtube channel YouTube channel that kid was like freaking amazing he created like a
gambling app essentially and he was making a ton of money on this gambling
thing he had a huge following where he would like go to frat parties and like
drink tons of alcohol and just party with people and then he started making
tons of money um he's involved with the Full Send podcast guys and the Nelk Boys.
And they would do all these pranks and they were just like killing it on YouTube.
And so what he started doing with his money is like going around and helping people.
So like for Father's Day, for instance, he bought like Rolexes and barbecues and flat screen TVs. And he went around in like a, in a truck and like
gave all these gifts away to dads who were having a tough year. It's just epic videos.
And then just one day, YouTube just, he had like millions of followers. YouTube just deleted his
channel and he was just crushed. Cause like that channel was his whole entire life and his
livelihood. And they just literally, you know, he takes the ad rev off of that and was bawling and just immediately just went to
you know was censored like he was just done and it's not like he was speaking out against the
government his kids just like going and you know drinking alcohol basically and partying and giving
away you know gifts to people. So that happened.
And he ended up moving over to Rumble.
And there are these other sites that are emerging
that are giving voices to people who have been deplatformed
for multitudes of different reasons.
So it just is why this tech is so valuable
because it enables these platforms to be built. Um,
like you could just build the next, you know, Google,
or you could build the next, um, YouTube, you know,
on packet network and you never have to worry about, um, you know,
some of these kinds of occurrences that are happening with these centralized platforms. that's yeah that's a big bummer for that guy but you know
that's how powerful the packet network is and if his channel was up on the packet network it
wouldn't have been able to be shut down so that changes the game um josh do you want to jump in
and talk about uh what's going on over at Rowdy?
Yeah, for sure.
And just to also add about who wants this is we have this entire crypto ecosystem.
Can you hear Josh?
Are you not able to hear me?
Yeah, I can hear you.
I can hear you.
Okay. Yeah, we have this huge ecosystem of crypto projects, tens of thousands of them. And they all claim to be decentralized, but built on AWS and highly centralized infrastructure.
And so you can throw around buzzwords, but what are you actually doing to be decentralized and
to actually walk the walk? And so that's why packet becomes so fundamental to this ecosystem
of crypto projects, because where's this being built? You know, where are you actually being
decentralized? Like, you know, AWS couldn't be further from decentralized and it's where a lot of the stuff
exists. My whole goal when getting into crypto is at the technology level. I remember getting
in this space and I was just so confused. I actually learned about Bitcoin in 2014 and I
just could not wrap my head around it.
I'm like, you got a mine?
Like, what the hell does this mean?
And you can't buy it off of, I can't just give you money.
I can't connect my, you know, it was just too cumbersome for me to figure out.
And so I've really dedicated my efforts to making usability of this technology and making things very user friendly. And so
that's where Rowdy comes in. And what we've been building at Rowdy is guest Wi Fi for businesses,
real simple, real vanilla. Businesses are trying to share internet, and they're letting people on their network, and they want to be able to market
and be able to connect with their guests,
and so they can do that through this technology,
and they want privacy and security at their network,
and Packet provides that for them.
And so we've been selling a product called The Mini,
and it lets people share their guest Wi-Fi through a captive portal, collect email addresses,
be able to connect with their guests, build that relationship. And so yeah, we've been pushing that
out to businesses around the world, anywhere from nightclubs to hotels. We just signed a 55 hotel deal. If you look on the
packet website, you can see how many people are using it. And there's over 13,200 people who have
gone through the captive portal and are currently using this technology. And these businesses aren't,
you know, crypto DGENs. These are regular businesses, regular people who are using this
technology and they have all their customers that are going through it and they're using it
not to buy a Lamborghini, but just because it's a better, more efficient way to share the internet and that gives them access
to the packet network. And it's a distribution mechanism that is growing this network exponentially
and allowing people to have access and really introducing people, regular people into blockchain and cryptocurrency.
And I think that where we see the entire blockchain ecosystem really take off is when
we stop talking about blockchain and crypto and we just create things that people need
and usability.
And I think that that's the next level of this whole entire crypto ecosystem.
And it's been really exciting to talk to businesses and get people excited about using
this technology and including a VPN into their networks where most businesses don't even use a
VPN. They don't even know how to use a VPN.
And using this network is a VPN network. And that's been really exciting.
Thanks, Josh. Yeah, that's what's all about getting people onto the network and
building it as we go. I wanted to open up the floor to Sweep. He had some questions he wanted
to ask. So Sweep, welcome. You want to
turn your mic on and we're grateful to have you here. Yeah, definitely. I think for a lot of the
users listening in and tuning in today for the spaces, got a couple of questions that I just
wanted to run by. And I think at least for starters, it would make sense if you could
just give us sort of a run through of how does it essential as the internet actually work.
Yeah, Caleb, you want to jump in and answer that?
Sure. Yeah. All right. So there's a protocol called CJDNS. And it was my project from like
starting over 10 years ago, 12, 13 years ago, a long time ago now. And the point of that project
is that rather than using IP addresses that are issued from like a centralized issuer,
we would have IP address would just be the hash of your key. And that way, every node could have an address. Everything would be encrypted to the end-to-end.
And you wouldn't need to coordinate the issuance of addresses.
So basically, once CDDNS node starts up,
it's got any kind of a connection to another CDDNS node,
bada-bing, bada-boom, they're connected.
Then you just throw a whole bunch of nodes in a room
and you've got a network.
Now, they still need to communicate in some way over something,
but the internet itself communicated over the phone lines in like the 60s.
So it's not impossible to use the internet as a way to tunnel from one place to another.
But the fact that it's all encrypted traffic tunneling over the internet,
makes it that it's a lot harder to track down where's the guy running the, you know, whatever
website that the powers that be want to silence, right? So as far as like long term, we can imagine
Right. So as far as like long term, we can imagine actually people owning their own fibers going from one place to another or satellite, whatever it may be. and all the communications are encrypted and there's just no central authority involved in that routing.
Like you just plunk a bunch of nodes together
and they are able to communicate.
So does that answer your question?
Oh, it definitely does.
And would you say for the day-to-day user,
for the average internet user,
is it important for them to use a decentralized internet?
We need to get them doing
it yes uh we need to get grandmas to start like running like a little uh a little mail server in
under their couch and whatever because what we need the importance here is that we need to get
if we can get everybody on there then it's going to be super hard to shut it down. You see, if it's like only the dissidents that are using decentralized communications, then, you know, they're just going to come in and shut it all down. Right. Because why not? But if we can get everybody using it for everything, then it's going to become impossible to shut it down without massive friction. And so they're going to have to rethink their strategy,
right? So that's why we need to evangelize the idea of decentralized communication,
like self-hosting, hosting things at home. We need to make it exciting for people
because they don't yet know why they need it. Got you. This is perfect. And say I wanted to use your internet.
So I'm just a new user.
I want to get started with it.
How much would it actually cost me to use it?
For the most part,
all this stuff is basically just running for free
because it doesn't make sense to charge for something.
It's still at kind of like a experimental level.
So if you peer into the
cjdns network if you connect to somebody uh in the cjdns network and then you're just uh tunneling
traffic over that for now that's all free where we want to get to is to where traffic is prioritized
based on if you're paying it if you're paying then you get first priority. And the person who does not pay, their traffic can go when there's available bandwidth.
But for now, it's all just free.
So if you're bored, you can install CD&S on a Linux machine and connect to some peers
and start checking out websites on the CD&S network like today.
Got you. this is perfect i think especially as you're offering perks that could be utilized if you want to pay not something that is
usually offered through chrome or the usual browser simply because it's centralized you have to go
through so many verification layers and so on but if there's such a system that exists and you can
use it freely but just if you want to get perks on top i think it's a perfect solution and at least
for starters for now i'm definitely going to experiment with it.
Yeah, and that's also what we've been doing with the rowdy technology is saying guest Wi-Fi is free.
But if you want priority routing, then you're going to pay whatever the business wants to charge.
And like how many times have you been at a cafe and the Internet's slow and you just can't even do a zoom call or something that you
need, I would have paid, you know, five, $10 for that. Um, and so you can do that. And we have a
system that a person can pay with a credit card and the person who's sharing the internet just
receives that in packet. And, uh, and we do the, the trans the transaction in the background so that you're receiving packet,
people can have no friction of doing a payment, using their credit card to be able to gain
access and now they can get priority routing whenever they need it.
That's perfect.
And do you think that you could also utilize towards flights and such systems?
Towards, say that systems? Towards,
say that again.
Towards flights.
So just like,
for example,
I'm taking a business flight to somewhere and we want to use the onboard
wifi.
So if I wanted to do that,
would,
do you think this is something that would be possible with time to
prioritize the networks over such internet conditions or,
or just,
yeah,
well this,
they would just need to use the technology,
but that's,
that's possible even now.
I got you. This is perfect.
Yeah, so essentially, you know, having an airline, most of those airlines are using like Starlink or some other type of web services.
And they would just have the technology built into the back end on their on their network and you have priority routing i'm sure they already have stuff like that for like the staff or maybe the um the pilots and things like that so that's why
the internet's so poor on an airplane and you pay eight bucks for it oh i wish it was just eight
man i wish yeah well yeah try 20 uh yeah. Eight, eight for an $8 for like an hour.
Yeah.
It's yeah.
You're right.
It's expensive and people pay it, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, there's no choice.
Yeah.
There's no choice.
You want to use it.
And the truth is most flights, especially here in America, like just domestic flights,
they don't even have internet.
And so you're sitting on a five hour flight with no TVs and no internet.
It's like,
what are we doing here? Why are we in the, you know, the stone age here? Um, but yeah, that's,
it's eventually seeing the entire world get onto this kind of platform would be just game changer for everybody. So that's why this project is just so, it's just so exciting to see the technology rolling out.
I think the basic idea is that the internet is a human right and it belongs
to everybody and everybody should have access,
at least baseline access, you know, at least enough to send an email.
And then if you want fast internet,
then you can pay for faster internet using this
network.
And that's a lot of the stuff we've been rolling out with the rowdy technology and
even looking into emerging markets about, um, being able to even get governments.
I mean, this isn't necessarily an anti-government project, but, you know, looking at, uh, you
know, a government that wants to be able to provide internet to
all their citizens at the baseline and then be able to charge when they want faster speeds.
I think that that's very tangible and doable even at this moment. There's not like something new
that needs to be built or a roadmap that needs to be achieved, we could provide connectivity for the entire world at the baseline
and then charge when you want faster speeds.
And I think that's a much more tangible model for the world
to be able to have access because 40% of the world is not connected.
Something we need to keep in mind if we're talking about, because this is a long debate
about whether, you know, why not just have the government, you know, pay to install it
like they do with water and electricity.
We have to keep in mind that if the government can provide us with internet access, then
it can also take it away just as easily.
So that's why I'm a big proponent of what Rowdy's doing with internet sharing,
Wi-Fi sharing, like with people in the cafe and that kind of stuff.
Like we need to get all these businesses to be doing Wi-Fi sharing
because through Wi-Fi sharing, we make it impossible for a person
to be excommunicated off of the internet
because they just go to the neighborhood cafe, right?
And then if we extend that further to like mesh networks
to where all of the local community is just Wi-Fi sharing all with each other,
then the only way to turn anyone off in that community
is to turn off the entire community and it's just becomes very unfeasible. So, uh, you know, I'm, I'm guarded about the idea of, Oh, just let's, let's have
the, let's have the government provide us the internet because if, if they just take it over
the ability to provide it, then they also gain this ability to just turn any one person off when they want to.
Yeah, definitely. And that's, that's what makes the decentralized nature of the project super,
super impactful. I have a question and, you know,
we are rolling to one hour here and I wanted to kind of just talk briefly
about the deep end narrative and the role that packet plays in this deep end narrative.
And maybe Jesse, you want to jump up and, you know, take this one and we kind of open up for a debate for the last, you know, 10, 10 minutes.
Yeah. I actually want to see if there's any questions like from the community first, because otherwise we're just talking the whole time.
So, I mean, it'd be great to just kind of open it up and see if anyone wants to jump on and ask anything.
Yeah, sure.
If anybody has any questions, you know, raise your hand or make a request and we can bring you up onto the stage and give you the floor.
There's a couple of questions in the comments if you guys check to there.
Okay, let me pull it up real quick.
All right, so we do have one question here.
If you self-host at home,
I'm assuming you would have an open inbound FW rule
for people to access your server.
Is there a solution to self-hosting
without having to poke FW holes?
Yes, UCD DNS. solution to self-hosting without having to poke fw holes yes you cdns um and you actually should not be port forwarding into your local network because that's where your isp is going to become
aware of it and a lot of them block that already or they will say oh that's not allowed under
under the terms of uh of our agreement don't doda-da-da, don't do that.
When you're doing it with CJDNS,
the only thing the ISP is seeing is just encrypted UDP traffic
going to another CJDNS node.
There's nothing to see, nothing to look at.
And then the actual place
where a person from the outside network
would come in to reach your website is going to be a reverse VPN.
I mean, I use reverse VPNs already for some of the sites I host.
I host stuff at home and I use reverse VPNs.
So basically it's a very small server out on the Internet.
And then somebody goes to that server and then that server is just forwarding the traffic back to the server that I'm running that is much more robust because I don't want to pay for a giant server on the internet and I don't want the privacy implications.
allows you to host a service that will be accessible to anyone who has cjdns reverse
vpn opens that up to anyone on the internet can then reach that service and you don't need to port
forward into your network and then take the risk that your isp is going to get mad about that
yeah hopefully that answers uh your question um that was a Twitter question. And then, you know, there's another question from Chili Ninja that maybe we can answer. And so does sharing the internet make it so that the internet costs less? Or can you maybe dive in just slightly on how that would affect the cost for people who receive
internet from people around sharing it um it can i think it can because in a lot of cases um you've
got like a cable provider and they're selling cable for like 50 bucks a month and what they're
actually selling they'll take they'll take an internet connection that costs about 500
bucks a month, like a good business fiber connection, and then they'll split it like
a thousand ways. So they're making a huge amount of margin just by breaking down that internet
connection and controlling each subscription individually. So if you can instead buy that business internet connection
into one place and then split that out using a mesh network,
that you should be able to significantly reduce
the overall cost that the entire community is paying
for that internet connection.
Okay.
So yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And so hopefully that answers your question,
Chilly Ninja.
I think also just to add to that is
if somebody has the internet
and they're paying for that resource,
they could do whatever they want with that internet.
And the packet network does,
and this Wi-Fi sharing technology allows you to fractionalize that internet.
So you could sell internet for a fraction of what you're paying for it and provide it to multiple people.
So there is the opportunity for you to be able to take the internet that costs you X amount of dollars and say, this is how much it costs per minute and letting people pay for what they use.
And that can change the way in which you interact with your internet.
And so if you share your internet, would it slow down your personal connection?
Because you only get so much and then you're dispersing it out to
the community how does that uh reflect how your speeds are yeah well some of the stuff we've been
yeah go for it caleb that's a great question and the answer is it depends right because you might
decide that you want to and this is where where we have to get into bandwidth leasing, which is new tech that is
not fully developed yet. But if what we want to do, where we want to get to with this is to where
you can decide, so you can say, all right, I'm going to set aside this bandwidth for myself
and this guaranteed bandwidth. So I'm going to put the highest priority to myself,
but you'll make less money that way. But then if you're sharing that and you're saying, all right, I'm going to sell a guaranteed bandwidth lease to this person because I want to monetize and make money, then when there's – what's the word?
what's the word? Congestion, congestion. When the network is overloaded and there's congestion,
then it might be that because you've sold that bandwidth, that lease, therefore you can't use
the bandwidth. And so now you're going to, your experience is going to be slower. But if you
reserve more for yourself, then you make less money, but your experience is going
to be faster in those times of congestion. But generally speaking, it should not be slow.
And a lot of the experience of, ooh, the internet is slow, is really just because of terrible
prioritization. And that's a solved problem, but the ISPs generally just don't care.
that's that's like a solved problem but the isps generally just don't care
like if if they would just do better prioritization you wouldn't have that
experience of like ew the internet's slow got it yeah and and we all know that it all stems from
your initial connection so if you have a fiber 10 gig line then there shouldn't be any issues. But if you have a 200 megabyte DSL cable,
yeah, you're going to, it's going to,
you don't have very much bandwidth to start with.
So got to make sure that you got a good connection to start.
Cool.
Well, look, we're running to the hour here
and it's been a great conversation with everybody here. We're really grateful for
the community to show up and all the new people that showed up into the space. Please, you know,
head over to the Packet Twitter and follow us and, you know, you can join our community over
in Telegram or Discord. And we do have a decentralized chat called Packet Chat,
and we do have a decentralized chat called packet chat which you can download an app it's packet
chat that's a really great place to chat over there and you know caleb's over there and there's
you know channels that you can jump in and talk about wallets and network steward and all that
type of stuff so make sure to follow all of the social media channels and stay up to date. And we do this community roundtable every two weeks. And it's just a great way for us to give updates.
And especially with this new network steward that is doing marketing, it's going to be really great
to have everybody show up so that you can get the updates on where things are at. So I'm going to wrap things up here and appreciate everybody who spoke today.
And if you have any further questions, please jump into the Twitter or over to Telegram
and Discord and we can happily answer them.
Yeah, thank you, everybody.
Great, great connection.
Yeah, thanks.
Thanks, guys. And we'll catch we'll
catch you in two weeks nice work kurt all right thanks everybody thanks guys thanks bye Thank you.
