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Privacy on BNB Chain: From Infrastructure to Adoption
Recorded: March 4, 2026 Duration: 1:05:33Space Recording
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. Thank you. Give me some interaction if you can.
Good.
Thank you for the yellow heart.
Welcome to the privacy on BNB chain.
From infrastructure to adoption.
I believe everybody here knows that privacy has been more and more popular lately, but do you know why?
So today we're going to talk about why privacy is important, why privacy matters.
So I am going to start with a quick intro, and then we're going to let our speakers to make their self-intro.
First, I would like to give a little bit of my personal opinion on why privacy matters.
I think this matters because this is no longer just a simple toggle switch, but a programmable layer is because we want to have more institutional adoptions, which is exactly
what our industry needs right now. And also the payment upscale really needs privacy as well.
So in this case, BNB Chain ecosystem has been putting a lot of resources in supporting builders
who are focused on building privacy solutions for devs and users.
And right now, we want to set to become the hub for compliant and intelligent privacy
infrastructure with the recent development.
So a little bit of NFA and do your own research. Disclaimer, nothing said here is financial advice
and users should do your own research
before interacting with any Web3 protocols.
And now I think we should let our speakers introduce themselves.
We're very lucky.
We have four speakers today from Brevis, RealGun, Zee, BNB, and ZeroXBow.
Let's start with how about Brevis.
Sure.
Well, first of all, thank you again for inviting me here.
Great to be here with everyone talking about privacy and especially talking about what's
special about privacy and breaking BNB chain and what we're building here.
Hello, everyone. This is Michael. I'm the co-founder of Brevis.
So at Brevis, we're building what we call the infinite compute layer for Web3.
The idea here is very simple.
Blockchains are really great for transactions and handling kind of a ledger recording,
but they are very limited
in terms of how much computation
they can actually run on chain.
This is also fundamentally rooted
in how blockchain is designed
because fundamentally,
blockchain runs on something called consensus
where each node repeats the same kind of computation again across the network.
Therefore, even the fastest blockchain cannot run faster than a single server.
So we're solving this computation problem with a new solution here at Brevis,
which is called off-chain verifiable computing that allows applications to run very complex
computation off-chain and then submit something called a zero-knowledge proof that can mathematically
verify the result is actually computed correctly off-chain and verify the on-chain directly.
So now you can tap into infinite amount of computation power as an application developer. And this, of course, involves privacy-preserving computation that can enable a lot of applications.
This really unlocks an entirely new class of applications that previously weren't possible
on blockchain.
And on BNB Chain, we're using this infrastructure to build a new generation of generalized privacy framework that developers can plug into that extend well beyond
simple and bread and butter kind of a transaction privacy.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for introducing what privacy is doing.
Now let's hand our mic to Matthew. Matthew Lenz, M.D.: Hi, everyone. I'm Matthew from Oxbow. So Oxbow is building compliant
privacy infrastructure. So the product that you will probably know us for is Privacy Pools.
So Privacy Pools is a protocol that gives you a compliant way to transact anonymously on Ethereum.
So this is something that we built after the white paper by Vitalik and others, including our CTO Amin Soleimani was written.
So it's based on that white paper. And our V1 is currently
in production since around March of 2025. And the basic idea is that you deposit
funds into a pool like ETH or stablecoins. Once your deposit is approved, then you're able to withdraw privately. And so the association set provider is what allows us to keep illicit actors out of the pool.
And so when you withdraw privately, you're proving that you belong to that set of good actors.
good actors. And so it allows anyone who is benefiting from the privacy pool to,
you know, feel confident that their funds haven't interacted with any bad actors. So it's a way to
kind of thread that needle between compliance and privacy on chain. And yeah, we're currently
working on a V2 of the protocol that will be a shielded pool design.
So that's what we're looking forward to next in Q2.
So that's it for my end.
Thank you, Matthew, for building shielded pool on VMBG.
Okay, let's move to Nuno.
Nuno, Nuno?
Yeah, thank you for introduction. So I'm Nuno. I'm developer, No. Yeah. Thank you for the introduction.
So I'm No, I'm developer of the ERC-20.
ERC-20 is a ERC-20 compatible private transfer solution.
So you can transfer the ERC-20 token using your everyday wallet,
such as Metamask or Binance wallet.
Yeah, ERC20 also supports a private breaching transfer so you can breach from BNB chain
to another chain such as Arbitrum or Ethereum. Yeah. So, yeah. So essentially the ERC Trinity is a user-friendly private transfer protocol.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. And now Alan from Railgun.
Hey, how's it going, guys? Before I get started, you guys can hear me, right?
We got some good connections.
Yeah, we can hear you very clear, loud and clear.
Sick.
Excellent.
Yeah, I'm Alan.
I'm a contributor to the Railgun Privacy Project.
Been around this for about five years now.
And Railgun is a suite of smart contracts that are deployed directly on-chain to give users privacy.
The way it works is you generate an address within that contract,
and then from that address in the contract can deploy those funds into DeFi, so you can
perform swaps directly from this private address and other DeFi activities. And Railgun, as a deployment is coming up on its fourth birthday on BSC, which is pretty cool to see.
It's done over nine figures of transaction volume.
And yeah, it's been pretty successful on BNB Smart Chain.
So pretty excited to be here.
Cool. Thank you so much for sharing.
Okay, now let's move to our first question to everyone.
First is a question for everyone.
So just you can decide who you want to answer.
And then if you want to argue, just open your mic.
I want this to be very technology-like geek-related. So,
first is, how do you define privacy in the context of Web3 and why do you believe it's
critical for the industry? So, if you don't agree, you can just open your mic. Okay, let's
start. Who want to start? Open your mic. Wow, I'll take a crack at it. Why not? So, you know, privacy is sort of a
multifarious issue, right? You have to think about it from a bunch of different perspectives.
So if you think about it from the on-chain perspective, there's fundamentally four things
that you want to privatize. That is the sender, the recipient, the token amount, and the token type that's being transacted.
And on an EBM, this is pretty reasonably easy to do.
This has been a concept that's existed in various mechanisms, things like tornado cash,
rail-bound privacy pools.
pools, you can do the research on that kind of thing. And I think what really makes it interesting
You can do the research on that kind of thing.
on the, you know, on-chain perspective is it becomes really challenging to handle the entire
stack, right? So you have to actually zoom out beyond that. I think there's a lot of really good
research, you know, happening on the side channel side of things, the privacy and scaling exploration
guys, the PSE, that's, I think they got funding
from EF, somebody can correct me on that if I'm wrong, but suffice it to say, there's things like
doing onion rooting for RPC calls, being able to do oblivious message retrieval, and this sort of
thing. And so the reason why I imagine some people are hesitant to answer this because it's such a complex question. But I think when you distill it down, the goal really is quite simple in that you want to,
you know, hold things private and transact them privately without, you know, simply broadcasting
that out in an immutable way to the world for everyone to see. And I think when you consider the why for adoption, it's completely
obvious, right? And everyone's used the cliches that is to say, I want to be able to buy coffee
with my crypto balance and not dox myself to Starbucks, right? I want to be able to have a
peer-to-peer transfer between myself and one of my peers without having that little sort of like hokey, voyeuristic activity
that is judging each other on Etherscan.
And I think that if we get serious about how the systems work,
that is to say there's a mutable sort of like view into your activity.
It's the only, I would call it probably one of the keystones
that's blocking major adoption is the ability to transact
with this sort of peer to peer blinding.
And yeah, I mean, that's the reason why I do the research
that I do and contribute to the stuff that I do
in hopes that we can surmount this in a really cool and secure way.
Yeah, maybe I can add on to that a little bit.
Yeah, maybe I can add on to that a little bit.
I think for me, when I think about why privacy is important and what it means, I think it's
really about giving users the power to reveal what they want to when they want to.
So it's really about trying to work towards a future in which privacy on-chain
is really the default that we're working with. And so I think that where we're moving is that's
probably going to happen at the wallet layer rather than the app layer, but it's really about
giving users the power to only reveal what they want to reveal and to whom they
want to reveal it to.
And so I think that that power and sovereignty is really kind of like the crux of what we're
working towards.
And there's a lot of different ways that we can work towards that same goal.
But I think that that's kind of like the North Star.
Agree.
Privacy is about level.
Whom you want to expose what.
So privacy is not like a 100 completely private to everyone
or to a certain...
Privacy is about to certain authorities.
You are happy to make them know who you are.
And at the same time, this is for compliance reasons.
Good.
Exactly.
Keep going.
Keep going.
Open your mic.
Yeah.
Well, you know, so I think this is Michael from Brevis again.
Sorry, I dropped it earlier.
But, you know, I think for Web3 privacy,
we really kind of experienced two generations of evolution.
The first generation is really the foundational layer,
and very important foundation layer,
which is the transaction privacy that is hiding who sent,
you know, how much money, basically, on chain.
Because, you know, without that,
everything is open and everything is public actually completely traceable and that is very
important but you know we we kind of stuck there for a while because of
really technology limitation back then you know ZK technology that is
empowering all this is actually rather limited, that you can only support things like transaction privacy.
But with modern ZK technology and especially generalized compute using ZK becomes a possibility.
And in terms of both feasibility and also performance, privacy can now protect much more than just payment.
much more than just payment.
For example, you can actually
on-chain verify users' identity
in the web tool world,
get a testation of
ownership of a certain
wallet transaction history. Let's say
I want to prove that I'm actually an owner
of a specific kind of
wallet that have transacted and
traded on PancakeSwap for more than $5 million
in last month. You can actually
do that now.
And you can even kind of bridge centralized finance
to decentralized finance to kind of have emerging experience
in terms of how you manage your fund across on-chain and off-chain world.
And you can also start to hide how you make decisions
and rebalance across different pools
and kind of make decisions and rebalance across different pools and make decisions about your liquidity
provisioning behavior, but still maintain trust and fairness and make sure that everything is
running according to predefined rule without actually revealing your secret sauce. All these
things now become possible with ZK, modern technology and uh you know we really now expand
the design space of privacy application to a really really three the uh three-dimensional
kind of design space in terms of uh what exactly you want to uh you want to you want to protect
uh you know whether it's a transaction whether it's computation whether it's data
on chain off chain uh and also the second dimension is how you want to unmask it,
how you want to protect it, to whom you want to actually kind of review this information too.
And the second is like, what kind of user are you actually willing to accept in your privacy application?
This is very much pertaining to compliance and compliance designs and policy reasons.
And, you know, yeah, so those are the things that we think is, you know, really transforming right now in the domain of Web3 privacy.
Great. Anyone want to call back? If no, I'm going to move to the second question.
Maybe I missed a chance to introduce myself. I'm the owner from GSC20.
Nuno is the main caller and the proposer, and I'm doing another stuff in the same team.
DSR-20, yeah.
And privacy, definition of privacy,
maybe it's a right to control the information,
to expose and show off about yourself.
And privacy is also a part of property, right?
And maybe, especially financial privacy, Privacy is also a part of property, right?
Maybe, especially financial privacy, maybe when we talk about privacy here,
it's maybe 80% or 90% is talking about financial privacy.
Financial privacy-wise,
privacy is one of the property, right?
Privacy itself is a property.
And, you know, we can price it, actually.
And so it's one of the assets of yours, and it's one of the property rights of yours.
And property rights has been the most, maybe the second important thing in this world.
Maybe the best, the most important one is our lives.
And the second is property rights.
And privacy is totally playing a very important role
regarding the property rights.
And almost all the use cases of crypto or blockchain
is now about finance.
And so basically, blockchain itself and BNB chain is a backbone of property rights.
It's a machine to keep the property rights.
So to complete this machine, we need privacy.
privacy. Otherwise, people can trace your asset and claim the right of the other's property
right, and people can attack the other's property right. So that's the reason why we are super
enthusiastic to protect this part from the attack. And yeah, I think that privacy
is the last missing part
of blockchain
to be a complete property
right machine, maybe.
That's my take.
I agree.
Anyone want to call back?
Okay, good.
Well, I kind of think like
if we go back to
the very beginning,
the very originally why Satoshi built Bitcoin.
Well, Bitcoin is transparent, but the more goal is for ownership.
Like you own your asset, like the ownership of your asset instead of like, instead of like a full transparent,
because right now when you are full transparent,
you are too public.
So that's why we want to talk about privacy.
Privacy is still, we want to,
like if you are going to a bank to the Web2 product,
you're very private.
Well, and you fit the compliance.
However, then why do we go to Web3?
It's because we want privacy at the same time ownership.
So privacy is never anti-blockchain.
It's actually a second stage of blockchain.
So you can have ownership at the same time privacy.
So this is another level of blockchain. And it's a new collaboration between Web3,
between blockchain and traditional government,
like why we talk about compliance.
So let's go to our next question,
which is for Ryugan,
do you mind explain how shield address management works
as a privacy solution and its advantages?
Alan?
Yeah, great question.
So, you know, what you're doing whenever you take and use Railgun is you can take and
use a Railgun integrated wallet and there's quite a few on the market now.
There's one called Railway, There's one called Terminal.
There's another one called Facelist,
which I'm particularly fond of.
It's pretty interesting.
There's a new one called Anon.
The list kind of goes on, right?
And what these wallets do is they integrate the Railgun SDK,
which is an open source SDK that people can integrate
if you're building a wallet, go check it out.
And what you're doing is you're basically making a new address,
a new derivation from your secrets.
And this address, we call it a 0ZK address.
You roll this new address, and basically,
You roll this new address and basically, if you can use your imagination, gives you a lockbox in the safe that is the relevant smart contract.
if you can use your imagination,
And the only way that you can take and transact from that lockbox is to take and generate a zero knowledge proof locally on your device that says you have the rights to spend out of that
lockbox. And on top of that, what's really great, the way that Railgun was architected
is you can also include various bits of arbitrary logic on top of that, that allow you to take
and then do cross-contract calls, right. So now it becomes something not just about payments,
where you can take and transact with other people in a private fashion.
You can also interact with smart contracts in a private way.
And I think what really has been very carefully thought about in the research that's been going down in the railgun land is how do we make sure that this private address mechanism, number one, is really quite secure and doesn't rely on anything other than mathematics and the chain that it's associated with, but also how does it maintain, you know,
sort of parity with public addresses? So things like making sure that there's like a really good
separation in between the zero knowledge mechanisms that are associated with the contracts
and your private key. So you can take and have arbitrary key types.
So the way that Railgun is architected is such that you can have a private multisig.
You can use Railgun with a hardware wallet.
We demoed this stuff out in Buenos Aires at DevCon.
It was a great event.
But that's sort of the ultimate goal is how do we make sure that this mechanism can do
anything that your public address can do, but in a private way?
And then how do we continue to enhance that performance and security?
Thank you for sharing. Thank you, Alan. And I believe actually, um,
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you, Alan.
RealGun has a way. I don't want to, I don't want to dox it. It's about,
it's called the RealGun Connect. Do you want to share or we can just wait until you lunch?
Sure. We can, we can talk about that. Yeah. So there's, um, so a lot of the things that we've been doing, and it's been around for a while, right?
It got started in late 2020 under the premise
that you could build an on-chain privacy solution
and have it interact with DeFi.
And this sort of started out with an SDK
that people could take and integrate things in.
It's called Cookbook, right?
And you could write a recipe to interact with
a DEX or something like this. And that was really cool. Because you could take and do
like a swap against a pancake swap or a uni swap or maybe the 0x router if you're into
DEX aggregation. And that was really, really neat. But the challenge there is that it relies on someone to take and write that integration and then for somebody in a wallet to take and integrate that into the wallet.
And DeFi moves much faster than builders could possibly build that.
There's a new DeFi mechanism seemingly every other minute that people want to interact with.
There's a new vault mechanism.
There's a new yield opportunity.
There's a new farm, a new shitcoin, something that people want to do, right? And so the
challenge is how do we take and automate that and how do we make it into something that is
sort of seamless and doesn't require a developer in the middle? And yeah, that's where Connect
comes in, right? So the research, and you guys can check it out.
Arun Millen, shout out to him and the Gnosis Guild,
put together a proof of concept of that.
I think it's on the Railgun Twitter.
Might be 10, might not be, but yeah, have a look.
There's a demo of it.
And basically what it does is it relies on
a bunch of really cool transaction simulation software
to basically simulate a transaction with a DeFi front end
and then actually execute that against your private balance.
And so it's sort of like an automated recipe maker now, right?
It's no longer that a developer is doing it.
It's all based on a really,
really interesting transaction simulation. And so,
yeah, we're pretty excited about that kind of functionality because, yeah, privacy should be
more than just payments, right? You should be able to do all the cool DeFi, DeGEN stuff that
you want to do and not have to, you know, harass some developer to, you know, please, you know,
integrate, fill in the blank swap. You know, I really want to interact with this farm
and whatever this might be, right?
And it's certainly an ongoing research battle.
If you're into that kind of stuff, if you're pretty nerdy
and you like doing transaction simulation,
you should come contribute, I guess.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks, Alan.
And now we have our question to Revis and Oxbow.
So do you mind sharing insights about the latest privacy infrastructure for users and
developers built in collaboration with BNB?
Built in collaboration with BNB.
Since you've been built with BNB from the beginning,
who would like to start?
Yeah, well, sure, definitely.
We ourselves have definitely a very long history with BNB chain
and super excited to continue to support BNB chain,
especially on the privacy front.
So, as I mentioned, we see modern privacy as much more than just the transaction privacy.
Therefore, we feel that it is very necessary and valuable to actually have a very simple framework,
but very powerful framework to build on BNB Chain in collaboration with the BNB Chain team
to actually kind of formalize the entire framework.
So what this framework is, is that it contains three components.
The first thing is that how do you define and interact with your privacy target,
which is what exactly are we protecting here?
So there are several categories in the framework already.
The first thing is that you're protecting your wallet address,
meaning that you want to prove that your wallet has a certain property
without actually revealing the address
and that you want to prove that your wallet actually belongs to such kind of a qualification set.
So the second is that you want to prove something like your trading history,
your off-, you know, your off chain private data.
And even, you know, a very important category is your entire computation process.
Right. So, you know, so this kind of computation privacy is something that, you know, very, you know, people haven't really talked a lot about, but we think this is actually going to be the future
of a privacy application,
which is your entire application.
A very simple and straightforward way
to implement privacy-preserving application
is to not run this on blockchain.
So you can just move the entire user logic
and user interaction and the internal tracking
of user interaction and the internal tracking of user interaction
completely off-chain
and run it in an off-chain environment,
but prove the end result,
the settlement, the final settlement
of the deposit and withdrawals
of the user transactions on-chain directly.
So what you get is that you get
kind of almost like a bank-like experience.
When it goes into this kind of a new generation, new type of application,
all the compute happens off-chain in a private environment.
And then only finally the outcome of the computation is, you know,
kind of transferred and verified trustlessly without actually depending on any other third parties on-chain.
And, you know that
enables a lot of different kind of applications so we build this kind of a privacy target framework
as essentially a set of a smart contract that allows you to essentially define what kind of
privacy target you want in your application easily you know in this in this framework
and then you know the second part is that what is the unmasking protocol you want to use?
This could be, you know,
the only the user can actually reveal the information,
the privacy protective information,
or a DAO or a committee or an operator
or a regulatory authority.
So, but it can all be abstracted
as a way to reveal the information.
And, you know, that part is something that we...
This is actually the part that is relatively hard to abstract.
But we still think that it's quite necessary
if we can essentially build something that can be reused
by a lot of different application protocols.
And finally, the target user. This is the part that can be reused by a lot of different application protocols. And finally, the target user.
This is the part that can be reused a lot.
What kind of user you want to accept
in your privacy preserving application,
because once they are actually in the private domain,
you sort of lose control to some extent.
So you want to essentially get the entry point more strictly or based on certain criteria that you want to set.
And one of these criteria is whether they are actually meeting certain on-chain and off-chain identity verification criteria.
And then we can actually build a generalized framework so that you can actually
reuse this again again your application so from a user perspective this is also very beneficial
because they can for example you know just approve their wallet transaction history once
and use this kind of proof everywhere in different applications and for different applications they
can just say okay i just want to accept a target user set
that has a Binance account for more than three years
and have done more than $10 million deposited
and withdraw on Binance.com in the last three years.
So they can just specify this easily
without actually rebuilding this again by themselves.
So this is the purpose of actually for us and BNB Chain to actually propose this generalized
framework.
And we're very lucky to have been working with friends at the Oxbow team to actually
become one of the first actually user of such framework to essentially have an end-to-end experience
to use this kind of a new three-dimensional design and to build this new kind of privacy
pool solution, what we call intelligent privacy pool solution, that really allows you to get user deposit
by asking
them to essentially prove their
transaction history to show that the
fund actually comes from
a Binance.com account.
These kind of things are something
that we think is very
useful and something that we are
building in collaboration with BNV Chain.
I will let the Oxfoc team of course talk more about the in collaboration with BNV Chain. Now, I will let the Oxbow team, of course, talk more about the new deployment on BNV Chain.
Yeah, thanks, Michael.
So I'll just bring this back to the app layer and to the practical side of things.
So how the privacy pool in collaboration between Brevis and Oxpel works is that users can,
we have two pools on BNB chain, USDT and BNB.
And for the USDT pool, basically, if you have funds that have originated from a Binance account,
Binance account, then you're able to deposit them into the pool. And what's interesting about this
then you're able to deposit them into the pool.
is that Brevis' coprocessor allows users to prove this without revealing their entire wallet
history and without revealing any aspects of their KYC or Binance account. So they're able to prove
that without actually revealing anything, which is very cool.
And so right now this is just a production beta,
so we do have a $200 cap on those deposits per transaction.
So it's still early days, but give it a try.
So if you have funds on Binance, you've withdrawn them to your self-custodial wallet,
you'll be able to deposit them into the pool, which is very cool. And then the BNB pool is operated by Oxbow running the ASP,
so there are actually no deposit restrictions on that pool. And the other thing that I want to
point out is that this is the first time that we've actually had two different association set providers operating. So previously, you know, any pool on privacy pools,
the ASP was operated by Oxpo, but now we have Brevis operating the ASP for the USDT pool on
BNB chains. So that's also a chance for us to show, you know, more of the capabilities of the
underlying protocol that does actually allow for multiple different entities to manage
the kind of like compliance posture. So yeah, definitely very excited to be building this on BNB.
Thank you, Oxbow and Brevis for building both Infra and DApp on BNB Chain.
I believe we do need Infra and we do need DApp.
It's like DApp can test Infra.
With Infra, DApp can build on it.
So I believe the privacy of BNB Chain is going to be more and more diversified
and more and more usable for institutions and whales
who really care about privacy.
Let's go to our next question for ZRC20.
Do you want to talk about ZBNB launch
since I believe ZBNB just launched last week,
the importance of it,
and how does it differentiation
from the other privacy tokens and solutions?
Yeah, so we launched the ERC20 on BNB about a week ago and I believe it's very meaningful for
privacy communities because BNB is really popular chain for traders with 12 DApps transactions happening every day.
And ERC20 is fully ERC20 compatible,
so which make it very easy to integrate
with existing DApps like DEX and Dending protocols.
So for example, if you are using PancakeSwap
with your main wallet,
you want to move BNB
privately to another your wallet, you can do it without changing user flow.
You simply set the recipient address to BAN address generated by our protocol.
And then ZBNB is transferred to a private way to destination wallet.
No one can see the link between your main wallet
and your receiving wallet.
So in short, you can keep strong compatibility
with existing apps and that's one of our key strengths.
So another difference from, yeah, is usability.
So you can see your ZBNB balance directly in your everyday
world such as MetaMask and Binance wallet. So with many privacy solutions you have to connect
to front end to check your private balance. But ZBNB is just a ERC20 token so you can see it in your wallet app and
it's very convenient. Sending is also simple so let's say my friend Bob want to receive zBNB
privately and Bob calls to zBNB front and generate a special address called ban address and share it with me.
And then I can paste the address into my Web3 wallet
and enter the amount and hit send.
And that's it.
So private transfer are very easy as a normal transfer
and just using protocol generated ban address.
So yeah, these are our strengths.
Thank you. Thank you for sharing ZRZV and BP. Okay, now let's go to the
privacy value for users, the product value. So this is a question for you all. So what real
world use cases do you believe will best demonstrate a clear product market fit for privacy solution on DMV chain?
I believe a lot of you have already talked about a lot of use cases.
But now we're going to conclude it.
Who would like to start?
So don't repeat with the previous speaker.
Who would like to start first?
Well, you know, I can start.
Well, you know, we talked a lot about kind of a blockchain native
privacy solution. So, you know, as you also rightfully
mentioned that, you know, we should repeat what we just said.
You know, we actually are working on something very interesting
lately that is very much kind of pertaining to what we just said, you know, we actually are working on something very interesting lately
that is very much kind of pertaining to, you know.
I'm not able to hear Bravis anymore. Is it only me?
Oh, hey.
Yeah, I can hear you now.
Oh, yeah, yeah. So I'm not sure where I lost you guys.
But I was just saying that one use case that we think is going to be very interesting
and also very uniquely powerful, especially built on BNB chain, is
actually an AI plus privacy plus crypto use case.
So recently, how many of you guys have seen, there's a video showing that there's, like, a kind of a fighter jet, you know, evading a missile and, you know, like, beautifully and, you know, people are saying this, like, actually happening in the real world.
How many of you have seen that kind of a video clip?
Probably a lot of you have seen that, you know, on X lately regarding, like, the recent conflict that is happening in the world, which is very unfortunate, of course.
But the point I'm trying to make is that people are seeing right now
is no longer believing.
It used to be that if you see a video or see a photograph,
there is a presumption of reality behind it.
But right now, things have changed.
No one actually knows what is actually
generating the things we see, whether it's a real-world capture or just the AI model.
And using AI to defeat AI is not a good solution because it's really going to be a never-ending
arm race. So you really have no way to actually, you know, beat model with model.
So how do we solve this?
Well, you know, I think a great solution here is to actually solve this by, you know, using, you know, a chain of authentication, authenticity attestation, all the way starting from the device so you can when you take a picture there are new
modern devices new modern cameras from like mass production uh you know uh vendors like sony
nikon and all these that can directly sign the video sign their kind of photo on the chip on
the sensor chip directly but not photo you know accounts for everything, right? So you basically have everyone's faces on it,
and so on and so forth.
So, yes, you have the signature.
You can verify the authenticity of the wrong picture,
but the wrong picture never gets used
because of privacy reasons in most cases.
Let's say you take a photo and someone's face is showing,
you want to kind of blur that face.
Then once you blur that face,
there's no way you can verify
that the photo is real anymore
because that is not the original signed raw data.
So you want to have a privacy-preserving chain of authenticity
of the videos, of the digital media's photos that you see online?
Well, how do you do that?
This is where ZK comes into play.
You know, now you can actually use
zero-knowledge proof to generate a chain of authenticity to say, okay, this photo came
from a real photo captured on real device that was signed originally, but it has transformed
by blurring, by redacting, and did a lot of different editing. And this is the end result of the photo that you see on the media.
So now, how is this relevant to BNB Chain then?
Well, because this kind of a whole process involves verifying ECDSA signatures as a first step.
And then you need to verify pretty big proof efficiently on blockchain to
essentially prove to everyone in a fully decentralized and trustworthy way that hey
if i you see this picture you just go look up for blockchain and it's a blockchain has already
verified the zk proof you can trust that this result uh or this picture is actually kind of authenticated authenticated and you know right now you know
there's no other blockchain that can support a certain kind of a pre-compiles or certain
you know ways to essentially verify a larger stock proof that is not actually kind of a
gone through the embedding and the compressing step right now.
But what I heard is that there are, you know, and saw on GitHub,
some of the GitHub repo is that there are active discussions in the BNB chain ecosystem to essentially implement the new cryptographic primitives on the chain directly.
And this is really going to change a lot of things for, you know,
on-chain verification of different types of VK groups.
And enable new use cases, new very important use cases of telling true digital media, true photos, apart from AI generated fake images.
So that's kind of like a use case that is not really pertaining to
blockchain native applications like DeFi, but also, you know, really require blockchain to
actually work end-to-end and hopefully BNB Chain can be the host of them.
Thank you, thank you so much for sharing. And now let's go to the next question, which
is the same question, but to the next one. I believe Brevis has already included lots
and lots of use cases. Does anyone want to add on?
Yeah, I'll just chime in really quickly. There's some pretty boring use cases that people are using it for right now. So if we look at the deployment for Railgun on BNB, we can see that there is a lot of transaction flows to things like centralized exchanges.
And so there's a lot of people who are using things like Railgun to basically separate
their core address from their on-ramp, off-ramp provider.
So people are taking and unshielding funds into things like Coinbase to get privacy from
their centralized exchanges.
And I think this is a really interesting thing because we've sort of seen it time and time
again where data lakes are leaking information about depositors to centralized exchanges.
And this has been a really great improving use case to sort of shield yourself from that risk vector. your person to a self-custodied address to bad actors that are getting access to these data
leaks. And the people are taking and using it to, yeah, to take in on-ramp, off-ramp.
And then there's a lot of payroll processing. So people who work in the crypto space, get paid in
crypto and this sort of thing, deal with a really big challenge
of how do they pay contributors
or people who are doing research or employees
and this sort of thing on chain,
while also staying compliant with data protection rules
for non-public information like salaries
and things like this in certain jurisdictions.
And so, you know, as it sits today, people are using Railgun for payroll.
You can take and pay your contributors privately in any arbitrary token that you would like
without, you know, taking and doxing all the contributors to each other.
It's not incredibly difficult if you have some sort of multi-sig where you're paying everybody out of it
to figure out and work out who gets paid what.
And this is an incredible challenge in the DeFi space
that people are facing and solving
by using things like roadmap.
I think it's pretty good to have that.
And maybe people are,
most of the privacy space people
talking about the privacy of payroll
and trade right now.
And in addition to that,
it might be possible that we can add investment to that classification.
And yeah, the trade is no shielded by railgun, payments are shielded by many projects.
But there are so many investments in BNB chain, for example.
investment in
BNB chain, for example.
So seed investment
and maybe pre-seed investment
and also
real estate investment.
It's pretty common in Dubai.
maybe
security token is totally
well
in those
in Switzerland
for example
this kind of investment
transfer is a bit
different from payments
it's more
less frequent
and it's a large amount
of course
people seek for
better privacy regarding this point.
Maybe B&B chain is one of the places most of the traders
and investors are gathering in one kind of chain right now.
So it might be possible that we can kind of add this investment payment
or investment transfer
to a group of PMF possible use case of privacy, I guess?
Thank you for sharing.
I believe on the payroll side,
not like compliance is one reason. And I believe on the payroll side, not like complying is one reason.
And I believe even users, they don't really want to like expose what do they get paid.
And so it's not only like B2B, B2C, not only B2C and C2C, but also like, for example, when you are doing a deal, an OTC deal, like those kind of deals that I believe
you don't really want to expose the price.
You don't want to scare the retails
if the price is different from the current price of the market.
So yeah, there could be lots of use cases
and there could be the use case,
more use cases coming as we are doing
an interview with our institutions. We're going to share the
result once we have done the interviews. So it's going to be recruiting more use cases that is
happening in the real world. Like what do institutions really need when we talk about
privacy and when we talk about compliance, like what should be disclosed.
Okay, we have a few minutes left. I'm going to go to the future side. So it's a question for you all. So BNB Chain has a vibrant developer community and ecosystem. So what edge do you think BNB
builders currently have compared to other blockchain ecosystem when it comes to building privacy-focused solutions?
I actually did some research,
but I would like to hear your opinion.
Who would like to start?
Would you like to start first, Alan,
since you have been building on many chains?
Yeah, so I think there's a couple of things, right?
Think about it from a relevant perspective.
The ecosystem that's here is really quite rich.
So there's a lot of different things happening on chain,
which is really, really great.
Cause what it allows, you know,
people who are researching relevant to do is, you know
sort of hit the Railgun
use case against those things. And whenever a chain is very monolithic and doesn't really have
a lot going on, it's really quite a challenge to test if this solution can work for a myriad
of things. And I think another thing that's sort of really underappreciated is that,
you know, things like Relgon are quite expensive computationally. A Relgon transaction in its
current form can cost a million gas units, right? Which in, you know, the current Ethereum ecosystem
where everything's, you know, sub, you know sub one way isn't really a big deal.
But if it gets into a busy gas market, it gets to be sort of expensive.
And this sort of raises the minimum viable transaction that you can do on the chain.
And in places like the B&B chain, the gas and computation is really quite cheap.
And so what it allows you to do is lean into that security of the chain and put a lot of the security assumptions on chain.
You don't have to think about having things off chain because it's too expensive.
I think that those are really the two big things that are afforded here.
Thanks. Thanks for sharing, Alan.
I believe, yes, from the data, from the data of Rogan,
we can actually see that there are tons of users on B-A-B-T-E-M that are using this expensive privacy solution for swapping.
And then it shows that there are whales, there are institutions,
or especially there are whales currently that exist in BMX.
So it means that privacy is needed.
And one more thing is like the reason why,
like BMX has always been well known for users, for the user hub.
And actually we are.
Even for privacy, we realize that the users are more institution.
So we are, yeah, we are more realistic.
So we focus on who's going to be the users.
So we want to build product from the marketing feed.
So we want to have the PMF.
And then we can show,
this should be on the wish list.
And then we can direct to our builders.
So we want the builders to build a product
where there are existing users looking for the product.
Hey, Alan, keep going.
Yeah, I mean, I think that BNB has certainly
had a very inexpensive gas market.
I mean, just looking at the most recent transaction for Railgun on BNB right now, it was a whopping three cents.
It's very, very, very inexpensive in the blockchain space.
And I think that's really cool.
I still think that there can be enhancements that happen.
that there can be, you know, enhancements that happen. You know, one of the things that I would
certainly love to see is, you know, there's EIPs that happened back in 2017, EIP 196, 197, which
were for these alt DLN calculations of the pre-compile, right? We're not going to get into
mathematics here today. We need another hour, but suffice it to say, what it allowed is a pre-compilation
of some of the more expensive bits to then be executed.
And I think that there's some other things that are sort of staples in privacy that, you know, deserve the same kind of treatment.
You know, one of the things I think that would be really fascinating, it would, you know, set BNB chain head and shoulders above the rack would be things like a Poseidon hash precompile, for example.
Those would be really, really cool.
And so I think that that sort of thing is, you know, something worth lobbying for.
You know, we're looking for a nexus of privacy to happen on BNB tape, you know, sort of going
to the market, talking to people who want to use privacy, and then the people who want
to build privacy, it's sort people who want to build privacy,
it's sort of like digesting those together is really quite exciting. And that's why it's been fun to chat with you guys and sort of like powwow on the cool things that we're all working on
together. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. And thank you for showing the data
that we can see that there are, that the BNB users are not only just high-frequency users, but also world users on BNB chain from data lies.
Anyone want to add on for this question?
I mean, absolutely. I just want to resonate with both of you here.
The reason that we have built on BNB chain is first and foremost that this
is where users are today. And the level of user activity on BNB chain, like real user
activity that we see is on another level compared to any other chain ecosystem that we build
on right now. So that's just a reality. I'm not in favor of BNB chain in a sense,
but this is what we see.
And another thing, you know, also just resonating on that,
and, you know, we have been also talking to, you know,
some of the technical teams and also drafting, you know,
BIPs ourselves to essentially, you know, enable a different type of, you know, new precompiles and the cryptographic primitives that is ZK friendly on BNB chain, you know, on the chain level.
positive and you know i can see that the iteration speed of bnb chain itself as a blockchain
is much faster so that's something that we want to take advantage of as well and you know can
essentially as i mentioned like you know for example for the for the for the photo authentication
solution this requires several kinds of
efficient on-chain pre-compiles to make this really work on a large scale but you know as we all know
this has really kind of strong and broad real world impact and that you know I think that the
bnb chain can actually move pretty fast to incorporate some of these changes quickly
and then you know become the central hub of privacy.
Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing about how you feel about building on BNB chain.
And yes, exactly. We are the hub of users.
We have the most biggest amount of the daily active users on BNB chain.
Even right now, we calculate data every week and every month.
And yes, it is not only for retail users, but also whale users.
And also, there will be more institutional users on BNB Chain
who's looking for privacy solutions and to adopt more users
to the Web3 industry, which is exactly what we need right now.
And do you want to share one last question, which is the one major development your team
is currently working on that users and developers should watch for the near future?
This is a good question for you to share about your recent roadmap.
Everyone can give me one feature.
Who would like to start?
Well, I can start.
So, you know, we launched the privacy pool on VMU Ching with like kind of our ASP beta
right now, and we hope to come out of beta very soon and have this kind of a fully launched
and be able to accept
more users and more you know higher fund flows with higher liquidity and also as i mentioned
the deep fake anti-deep fake solution that we're building uh is launching also very soon and uh
we're also planning to launch on uh you know bmv chain so uh look out for uh that for us
thank you what about uh in the chain. So look at that for us. Thank you. What about Matthew? Sure, yeah. So the main thing
that we have on the horizon is the v2 of our protocol, which as I mentioned earlier is going
to be a shielded pool design. So very excited about that. So if you're going to be at ETH CC at the end of March in Cannes, we're going to be aiming to do some testnet live demos at that time with a mainnet deploy to follow approximately a month later.
So, yeah, definitely stay tuned for everything coming for V2.
Thank you so much. What about ZBNB? Basically just your new launch product, right?
Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, one major development we are working on is gasless transactions where users
can pay gas fee using the ERC-20 tokens. So paying us is a real friction point,
especially for users who won't make their activity private.
So with our approach, user can pay transaction fees
using the ERC-20 tokens already in their wallet.
So they don't need to hold the native token in their wallet.
So yeah, this helps the overall privacy experience smoother
and yeah, because users don't need extra step
just to get started.
So yeah, we're planning to release this feature this month.
Thank you so much.
And anyone want to share? No? Oh, Alan. Yeah, I'll, yeah, yeah,
I'll, you know, it's so hard for me to pick something really cool Railgun related. So
I'll, you know, I think the coolest thing that's happening in the Railgun
builder ecosystem right now is a really cool wallet that's sort of not gotten a lot of attention called
Anon. They're really, really sick. They built this really clean interface. Yeah, I'm really
excited about those dudes. Not, you know, I would tell you guys to go check out those
dudes. They have a beta out right now, I think, or if not, I think it might be coming out
tomorrow. And I'm just like, Docs, they're a really cool thing
that they're going to be doing in like 24 hours.
But anyway, twice as to say, you guys should check out Anon Wallet.
It's the bee's need.
Cool. Share it in the group.
Share it to me. I'd like to try it out.
Okay, I guess that's it for our AMA today.
We are going to see you next time.
And just remember, privacy is very important. It's not
only just a narrative. It is a layer for our whole industry to go to the next stage because
we need more users that's not in Web3 yet. And we need the institutions to adopt them for us.
And the institutions would definitely need privacy that
can collaborate with compliance. Okay, I guess that's it for our AMA today. Again, please do
your own research before you interact with any protocol. And what everything we are talking
about today is not financial advice. So enjoy your day and night. Bye bye.
Bye everyone. Bye everyone. Thanks much. Thank you. Thank you.
