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Pryzm Alpha Hour: Photons Season 4 and Refracting Yield
Recorded: Sept. 3, 2025 Duration: 1:02:42Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. everyone can hear me okay Ich habe auch noch nie hier, okay? Thank you. Thank you. Hello, hello.
JG, can you hear me?
Loud and clear.
Good morning.
How you doing?
I'm good.
How are you doing?
Not too bad.
Not too bad.
What is?
Remind me, you're're west coast aren't you
yeah i'm in la yeah yeah what is the top what's time in la uh it is now 10 07 a.m okay not not
a crazy early start then nah we're good we're good okay so how uh how you how you weathering
crypto at the moment it's kind of choppy isn't it
it is you know honestly i've just been super focused on getting these collections up and
that kind of gives me a little bit of a reprieve from the insanity of the market so uh yeah i was
just on the phone with thomas and we're trying to get this thing up and going tomorrow yeah i saw the
um zephala got shared looking pretty cool, isn't it?
Yeah, they're starting to come out really good.
The combinations are, they look good.
Yeah, I'm excited for this.
When do you think,
when do you think
it would be a good time to launch it?
Well, I mean, like I said, I was talking to Thomas,
we can have everything loaded up
and turned on tomorrow if you want.
And he's got, we're doing the, I chatted with Yves the artist and doing the front end and page, like I think he's taken a lot of inspiration from the mad scientist page.
Yeah, but I mean that doesn't have to be done before getting the collection out.
Again, we want to get the tribe started, right?
So that can roll out after people are representing it public facing.
That's kind of what we want to have start to happen, right?
Yeah, that makes sense.
So they would mint it on your, you know, people that want to know, like they'd mint it on your web page?
Yeah, you just go to our launch pad we have a on our page we have a tab that says launch pad and uh there
will be a minting section and um you just connect your wallet and you it's going to mint in the
token right so you're going to have to load up on that uh at the prison map but then um yeah we
should be ready to go like I said I was
just talking to Thomas right before I got on the space and you can you can have
it all loaded up and ready to go by tomorrow I wonder if we should be one
one last like wacky exchange rate on the token just to give some people yeah
give some opportunity for people to people to degen some or like go max long wire
or whatever um we should we should uh yeah see see what people fancy i think a lot a lot of people
like accumulated a decent amount relatively in like awu terms but um but yeah like we'll see
it was a funny like awu was a funny one because we put it into, we put AWU into photons.
And it kind of like the liquidity in the AWU pool, like, was intentionally left, like, very low because we sort of think, like, in the AWU USDC pool, it's like $400 of liquidity or something like that.
$400 of liquidity or something like that.
We kind of thought it'd be fun to like have the,
have like a crazy inflation rate on our,
and also give it like a photon,
like make eligible for photons previously.
But then,
but then based like the hour yield pulls,
like eligible photons.
And then because it had such tiny liquidity and photons are based on like the dollar value of a
token we thought it would be like not like a social experiment but like interesting to see
if people like built up our positions and then ended up like buying a lot in the thin liquidity
pools kind of like push price up so that they ended up getting a lot more photons for their
they were uh they were getting um but then it's kind of like the liquidity's kind of stayed
like actually not too high.
So it's interesting on these ones,
like with our, or with like,
OpDrop for example, to kind of like see,
how like,
you know, momentum works for a community a community if like if community like converges
around like a kpi or a target or like a goal of like getting more photons for our token or like
getting to the op drop like what kind of stuff you know works well for people and what kind of
improvements we can make to things to make it um you know resonate or like kind of i don't know
resonate like ideally like find things that galvanize people together or like kind of, I don't know, resonate, like,
ideally, like, find things that galvanize people together,
where they kind of all have a target that they're working for in their head. I think, like, Optrop's, like, the main example we have of that.
I thought, like, Awu and Photon, so I thought it was, like, a fun one to try out.
Yeah, maybe we should put a proposal up and see if people are interested in a yield change
on our Woo scene.
Well, we still need,
you know, the one thing that we do need to know
is how many Woo per mint, right?
Because that will also predicate
some of the decisions that need to be made on that pool.
Because we have to expect that other people
who haven't earned Woo are going to want to buy into it.
Yeah, we should look at the,
I don't know what people think is the best way of doing it,
but probably look at the holder list of BAUU
and kind of see how many people hold more than X amount
or pick a number where we're like,
we want a couple of thousand people
to be able to mint this token or mint this thing.
Okay.
Like what size does that take us down to
on the account list, for example?
Yeah, we should run those numbers.
God, I'm just looking at it as we speak.
But yeah, very cool.
And then I'm just looking at it as we speak. But yeah, very cool. And then I'm just trying to think.
Yeah, so yeah, I agree with you.
I think that makes a lot of sense.
Try and get the collection out first,
galvanize everyone,
and then we can fine tune the things like the website
and actually probably more fun getting people's feedback
on what they like and what their preferences
are in terms of things that happen on nft websites i concur look again i think the important thing is
is that we're getting a lot of people in these spaces there's a lot of re-listens it's really
important again to have something that people visualize with and identify with because as as
our community is interacting with other communities this is you
know one of the conversation starters right like oh where did that come from oh right like so
these are the things that we want people to brag we want people to show off we want people to
um uh you know rally right that's what it is we need people to rally yeah yeah agreed well um i'm
just looking on your website now so it says app.back app.backbonelabs.io forward slash NFT's forward launch pad.
And that's where they'll find it.
Yeah.
Yeah, wicked.
All right, cool.
And because I've learned from you, JJ, I think we should, yeah,
if everyone listening today can hit the share and so we can try and get more
people aware of it and that'd be perfect so if you just go in the space there and hit the little
i don't know what you'd call it a little share icon with three circles and two lines um that'd
be greatly appreciated and then as all as always you know we'll we'll run through some of the stuff
that's going on chain at the moment, uh, or going on with,
kind of like development and strategy,
but also please,
you know,
if you do have any questions,
or there's anything you'd like to know,
then please do either kind of raise a hand and come out to speak or put it in
the,
put it in the,
comment section,
just hit that little speech bubble,
on the space and then,
and then write your comment in there and then we'll look at it.
Um, yeah, like the general overview at the moment, uh, speech bubble on the space and then write a comment in there and then we'll look at him.
Yeah, like the general overview at the moment, like quick, you know, to bring everyone up to speed on what the team's been working on. So we've updated, based on people's feedback,
we've updated the PGov UI. So PGov, for people that don't know, is kind of a feature we built when we originally
built Prism, which basically says, okay, one of the big problems with LSTs is people come
and mint an LST, and that LST voting power just goes to all the validators that the LSTs
are the underlying assets are staked or delegated to,
because the LSTs can never vote themselves.
And we thought that was kind of like a bit of a
concentration risk problem on all the chains.
So, you know, Cosmos, Harp, Osmosis, et cetera.
If LSTs became very, very successful and dominant,
then it puts way too much power in validator hands.
And there's, you know, we know firsthand
from running validators that there's lots of kind of like
backroom deals that go on that I don't think are optimal
and kind of leave the community sidelined
in things that should be open kimono, to be honest,
in my opinion.
And so PGUB started with that in mind,
where we were like, okay, well,
there's no reason why if you hold a liquid-saving token,
you shouldn't be able to vote in governance.
And so we built this module, which basically says, okay, so say we mint a load of Atom LST,
then why don't we have it on our chain where people with the holding the
atom LST can actually come and vote in Cosmos Hub proposals. We never actually activated
it just because the voting power wasn't necessarily material enough and also we had lots of features
that you know there was already a lot of new things for people to learn.
So liquid voting was going to be a new concept for people.
So we didn't introduce it yet, but we did have a UI for it.
I think with Prism, because so much of what's been airdropped to people has been liquid
state versions of Prism.
And for lots of different reasons, that's happened.
And I think it's been a really good success
because it's, you know, taught people to trade,
taught people how to use Prism, taught people how to trade.
And so, but I think because such a high percentage
of the Prism token is liquid staked,
you know, PGOV, a lot lot of feedback people had is like you know
they would like the ability to vote with their liquid stake tokens so we've kind of like rebound
vamped pgov starting off with just it working for prism lsts um on the ui and that should be um that
is now available on testnet for people to try out and we're going to add it to mainnet so this means
any of the important proposals that are coming up uh everyone with c prism or p prism will be able to vote on
those and you will be voting with the entire amount of c prism and p prism that is liquid
staked so if only a couple of people show up to vote with c prism and p prism they're going to
have like unbelievable amounts of voting power because they're going to control everything that uh all the voting power of all liquid state prison um so yeah so people can
check that out please give us feedback it's a it's the ui is intentionally simple to start off with
um and then we can add in more you know features and data for people if uh if they'd like that
if they'd like that.
So we've done that.
The op-drop UI is ready and updated.
I think something we discussed with people before
and had some feedback on is that people would,
people didn't necessarily, or people were concerned
about whether they would get to execute
in a first come, first serve environment.
So, you know, the op drop price target is or activation price is 0.0152
for the Prism token.
So if the Prism token stays above that for three days,
then people are able to buy Prism tokens at half price.
You know, the point of having that target was kind of like to reward
people uh who participated in the lbp and also to give people the opportunity to buy half price
prism tokens if they you know uh you know successfully educated others about it and
the prism token price ended up um doubling from the average price of the lbp so the the way that op drop works now after updating
the contracts is you know everyone will be able to come and everyone will be able to subscribe
with as many op drop tokens as they want um and then what's what's available will get dealt out
pro rata so if there's more demand than there is um tokens to available, then everyone will get a share of those tokens
that are available pro rata to the amount
that they subscribe.
So it kind of completely removes the fastest finger
first side of it and makes kind of like the distribution fair
from that perspective.
So the UI is now looking really good for that.
And the contract we've updated and written is,
you know, we're really happy with it.
The only thing we need to do now
is actually hit the op-drop price target,
which I think there's something like 20 odd days left to do.
And then everyone's going to be able to get some pathways tokens.
So there's that i think the you know seal
uh which is the interchain order book that we're creating um starting off interchain and then also
we're building on ethereum as well um that's obviously that's gonna prism holders will get
airdrop tokens in that but it's also going to add a lot of utility to Prism tokens, like all the derivatives that Prism creates.
It's going to create a really specific, exact way of people trading these
where they can leave their target price.
And then I think it'll also work for any inter-chain asset.
It's going to work well for, say, you want to get an asset from Ethereum
and you want it to be given
to you via ibc eureka but you don't necessarily know how to like or want to go over to ethereum
pay gas on ethereum mint the asset and then bridge the asset over via ibc eureka you can actually
just almost set a task for someone to do that for you and a small amount of profit for them to make
for it it'll pay them effectively a small fee and they'll be able to go do that for you and a small amount of profit for them to make for it or pay them effectively a small fee
and they'll be able to go do that using this seal order book.
So that's going really well.
I think it's going to be really useful for people.
The UI, we're just finishing off some like minor kind of edge cases,
but the UI is looking absolutely brilliant.
Thanks to Enzozo one of the community
members um and uh and so yeah very very excited about that and then work on the ethereum version
of it's going well as well um and uh i think um yeah other than that we're sort of in conversations
with uh as usual with kind of like other teams, projects, potential launches, seeing where there's synergies, you know, gauging community interest on new tokens that they would like to see added for yield trading.
And then I think two of the big things are, you know, season three of Foson's finished.
We've gone into season four.
We haven't made an announcement yet on season four.
And the main reason for that is because as well as season four,
which season four is basically the way, you know,
that was for all the external assets that people brought over to Prism,
they were able to earn Photons by either providing liquidity
or holding a yield token
um and then we had a separate event after the prism token launched where there were prism
rewards that were paid out once a day as incentives to people that were using their
prism tokens to provide liquidity or um holding some wide prism tokens we we basically are
wondering you know with community feedback,
people have already given some suggestions whether,
because that PRISM incentives program might end up running out
before the sort of original or the tokens might run out
before the three-month deadline that was originally community-aided
where it was like, okay, there's 20 million tokens available,
which is 2% of the Prism supply.
And either we go until three months are up
or we go until 20 million tokens are released.
It looks like 20 million tokens
is gonna be the sooner of those.
So, you know, there's the potential
to either roll the Prism tokens into the photons campaign
or keep prism rewards separate and paid out daily um the new photons campaign is a is a similar
three-month campaign as well um i think if people have any strong feelings about the photons that
are allocated to different um to different uh assets whether that's, you know,
base tokens, yield LP tokens, yield tokens themselves.
You know, please do let us know. And then we were also, you know,
the unbonding period in the PRISM campaign
for, you know, the PRISM derivatives incentives. That has been upped
from one day to 14 days. I think we've seen around 5 to 10% of the TBL unstaked based on that.
I think partly people didn't want to be locked for 14 days. Partly some people are anticipating um some rewards getting paid out for the treasury
module uh but yeah so so those kind of the things on photons and the incentives campaign
yeah i'd love to love to hear people's um love to hear people's thoughts and feedback on that like
you know quite a bit going on but uh so if there's any anyone anyone needs any clarifications, let me know, but should be an article out fairly soon.
You're my boy.
You're deep in the weeds on this stuff.
Any thoughts or questions, if you can,
if you're able to speak?
Yeah. Can you hear me okay?
Yes, sir.
Yeah. Hey, good afternoon to you.
Yeah, I think lots of discussion and debate and speculation, I think, about what we're going to do, you know, even as somebody who's tracking all these different tendrils pretty closely.
all these different tendrils pretty closely um it's starting to get difficult i think to
to value um you know the various uh prism derivatives which is both cool and then like some
somewhat frustrating frustrating actually because there's there's just a time period right now where a number of different decisions are sort of converging or like some clarity on what's going to happen when the initial pool of 20 million tokens for staking the Prism LPs.
And then I think the big one to me is whether or not we're going to do a distribution from the treasury module for the Y prisms and for C prism.
I'd love to see C prism behave and the Y prisms behave like the other liquid stake tokens on prism, the C and the non-Cs and the other Y tokens.
So to me, I think getting sort of normal order in place where there will be periodic distributions from the treasury that boost the value and initiate auto compounding for C-PRISM and get some organic profit-driven Y-PRISM rewards will be good to see.
Because I think for some who are new and we're trying to court new community members and users of the PRISM platform,
it's, I think, a little confusing to see the home tokens not currently kind of behaving fully the way that the other tradable tokens are. contribution, whether we're going to do it and when. And I think probably packaged with that is
a decision on unbonding time for the C-PRISM. And it looks like there's consensus building on
eight to 10-ish days, I think, or seven to 10-ish days on that. And opinions vary, of course,
on that. But yeah, I think many are eager to get those two decisions sort of behind us
so we can start making more informed moves trading-wise
and investing-wise on the PRISM derivatives.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I do think the big one is C- C Prism unbonding time. Because I mean, at the moment, you know, C Prism effectively, you know, is almost like infinite unbonding time. So if you buy a C Prism token, you know, say for argument's sake, it is 120 days if you buy one c prism token at the moment then you're effectively buying
the right to get one prism token in 120 days which obviously trades at a much much bigger discount
than if someone said to you okay if you buy a c prism token then you're gonna then it gives you
the right to get a prism token in seven days or ten days or whatever the unbonding time goes to. So I think, yeah, I think that unbonding time will, you know,
decrease the discount that C-PRISM is trading at a lot.
Obviously that has offered a, you know,
a decent trading opportunity for people.
But then, you know, C-PRISM would also be a beneficiary
of any treasury distribution that happens um as well so yeah so
i think um i think yeah i think c prism is the big c prism on bonding time is the big first one
i think it's it's cool like i think it's cool the feedback people have been giving around that like
you know they don't necessarily like the blanket 21 days that you have across all the cosmos, most of the cosmos chains.
And so it's been, you know,
I like the fact that the prism community is choosing something
that's non-standard on this.
It's kind of like weighing up what they've seen
on other chains and choosing something non-standard.
So I mean, like hopefully, you know,
if Atom's trading at a 21 day,
Atom's trading at, you know, a 21 day, Atom's trading at a 21 day discount,
i.e. buying one Atom's worth of liquid-staked Atom
effectively gives you the rights to an Atom token
in 21 days.
If with Prism it ends up being seven to 10 days,
then you kind of expect it to trade at a smaller discount
than C Atom is to Atom, for example.
So yeah, I think that'll be cool
and then on the other ones yeah like hopefully that's some normality
yeah i like it too because i think it to me it suggests that there's um for those that are using
the platform that have been actually using the platform over the last, you know, 12 plus months, like they want to trade, right? And we're sort of
selling a trading marketplace for your yield, and therefore your principal as well. And so I think
it's a good thing both for the community and the protocol for there to be trading, right, and having
a good amount of trading on the project's token, also good.
So that short run bonding period, there's pros and cons, I'm sure.
And I know you guys have probably, you know, game plan that out.
But to me, it's a good sign that the community is still engaged, you know,
pretty fully in the core mechanics of the platform and are eager to,
to trade with a little bit more informed sort of confidence on the prism derivatives.
Yeah, I agree. I think it like, you know, a big reason for doing it the way that it has been done,
which, you know, it's, it's, it's a bit unique. Like I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it done
this way on other chains,
but the reason that we kind of like,
you know,
or part of the reason that we ended up kind of doing it like this was
because I think you get,
you know,
you get a lot of situations where you airdrop tokens to loyal,
like dedicated community members,
but at the same time you're airdropping tokens to,
you know, cheaters. same time, you're airdropping tokens to cheaters.
I think what we've wanted to do is try and make sure
that people who've been loyal become users of Prism,
don't get hurt by people that have been cheating tokens,
which I think happens a lot in other protocols.
And so I think in a way,
like this being structured the way that it has,
where people ended up receiving Y Prism and Prism Yield LP
and some of the other Prism derivatives,
then the kind of people that didn't want to commit,
financial self-harm kind of ended up learning
a little bit about Prism.
And for people that did just want to exit the system um it's provided good trading opportunities for people that have uh have it
like educated themselves on the system and kind of like advocated it um and i think that i think
that kind of like that sort of wealth transfer from um you know what would you call it like
shorter term uh you know or weak hands to strong hands i think uh i think you know what would you call it like shorter term uh you know or weak hands to strong hands
i think uh i think you know a decent amount of that has played out now so i think yeah like i
think the time is the time is right to or the time feels right um to kind of uh you know decrease
that unbonding time now and kind of like let the system you know let the system flow a little
you know more than that more naturally based on what people's feedback is yeah i think the other
the other decision i would i would advocate for being included in that sort of upper tier
is sort of the chain inflation or not or deflation um i think many, including me, were expecting that Treasury module distributions,
we could decide that they would flow, you know, every block or daily
or that there would be a regular rhythm to it rather than what it appears to be,
at least with this decision, a single allocation that we would have to create that regular C and Y, you know, C auto compounding yield and
some Y yield. So I'm hoping we can get some discussion. Maybe we need to get a Discord post
going so that that can happen. Because these are, as you know, these are all interrelated, right?
For the regular user, even a regular, I think, user differentiating between rewards paid out to Y and C
prism holders from the treasury module versus inflation. It's going to be easy to confuse those.
So I think there could be some positives to getting a chain inflation pulse from the community
and or a vote sooner rather than later.
JG, you had your hand up.
Oh, yeah. So I'm definitely looking forward to inflation-esque system, but I don't necessarily
think we should use inflation if there's treasury funds. I think it would be more interesting to allocate a percentage of that to
meter out in like a, whether it comes out every hour or every block. However, you know, it can
be metered out in an inflationary manner. I think that would be much more attractive. I don't think
we need to have inflation at the moment. Yeah, I kind of, I sort of, I mean,
Yeah, I kind of, I sort of, I mean, I sit on the fence a little bit on it on some of
this stuff just because for me, I kind of like, I take your, I take your points, Wendy,
but the, like, I, if I was to like, provide the, like, say what I think is like the counterpoint on that, like, you know, yield, you know, a steady, stable inflation, I think historically has been a bit of a,
been like a bit of a constant bleed on some of these other proof of stake chains.
So I always wonder like, you know, there are other ways to incentivize validators that I think like,
for example, Celeste is exploring at the moment, rather than paying chain inflation to everyone, including validators who then take 5% of that chain inflation.
And then they sell their 5%.
But then you also, you know, the other 95%, you know, some people sell it, some people hold it and compound it.
But I think it can be um you know for token price
i think it could be bad like obviously market cap isn't necessarily the same thing as token price
because more tokens are going into circulation so even if the token price reduces um the market
cap can still stay stable or increase i think what i wonder is like you know, I've always looked at Prism as something like the interest rate market
or the interest rate swap market.
Like that was just kind of like yield swaps was my background.
And, you know, when I look at it and I look at yield swaps,
and I know, you know, you and I were chatting about this the other day,
but if you look at it in how it works in traditional finance,
you know, there are kind of like key meetings and key events
where interest rates are decided, you know,
increasing interest rates, decreasing interest rates, et cetera.
And traders kind of converge around, you know,
speculating on what will happen at those meetings,
but also then reacting to
the decisions of those meetings after they happen so like you know monetary policy meetings treasury
meetings that kind of stuff so whilst i agree that if you would you know if you were just to
say well look here's a regular interest payment that you're going to receive every single time
um that can make things a bit more stable but it can definitely reduce trading opportunities
and volatility and i kind of wonder with prism like are you supposed to um have more uh have
more trading and volatility like for example you know some of the some of the really interesting
trades i think on prism have been things where you know people have been speculating about whether
celestia was going to reduce their train inflation, which they did drastically.
And people were able to lock in interest rates, fixed interest rates, long term fixed interest rates of 20, 30 percent, 50 percent, even more on P tier.
Meanwhile, like interest rates got completely reduced. And so value of yt have drastically decreased so people were already taking a big mark to market profit on their p tier without even needing to hold it to
maturity and i wonder like do you end up getting the same thing with prism where it is the job just
to um reduce volat you know reduce volatility and reduce trading opportunities or is it more
exciting for people to be like okay well
that there's going to be you know either quarterly dividends effectively or monthly dividends or
whatever like you know depending on how regularly the community decide to vote on what to do with
treasury revenue um you know could even be like weekly um auctions as the treasury revenue like
a vote a governance vote goes up and it kind of just happens. Or, you know, do you need, do you need to kind of add some chain inflation to it to
reduce volatility and give people like a constant earnings, but it, you know, that constant earnings
then gets sold by lots of people. And you don't necessarily have, you know, the, the buy pressure
there all the time that effectively like a treasury distribution does because people have to buy what's in the treasury with PRISM tokens.
Sorry, that's a bit of a monologue, but that's kind of like just playing devil's advocate a little bit on what you're saying.
Yeah, I'm with you 100% on would it be more interesting.
I mean, absolutely. I worry a little bit about, again, sort of like your typical, even your typical current user, which I would say is a little bit more DeFi or financially savvy than the average crypto participant today.
participant today, getting some certainty, at least around this initial distribution
is going to be helpful because I think seeing some people be bummed about their YPs, you know,
expiring with, I guess, without just kind of know, they just kind of expired, right? We didn't end
up having a distribution. So locking in in at least in the short term to like
a strategy, like, Hey, we're going to do quarterly or they're going to be monthly.
And the first one's going to happen either before or after September, um, even an announcement
without the action probably would, would help. And I think spark some additional,
um, additional training. I just don't want to bleed any newer perspective, you know, users
while we're in this sort of still like we're live, but sort of still incubating,
you know, the program, you got all these animal apps, you know, getting ready to go and to go
cross train. So there's a lot more to come. But I was trying to red pill somebody the other day and
got them to understand the concept pretty quickly.
And then I was showing them sort of the opportunity there with Prism to see Prism.
And like they were just very confused with why the gap, I don't, it's 40% discount.
Like, that scares me a little bit.
And so, again, it's opportunity.
Again, it's opportunity.
I just think getting some sort of structure in place,
at least as an initial strategy,
I think would help more than it would hurt.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I mean, is it, would you say it's having to choose
between staking your Y prism into the incentives module or staking into the Y-Staking module with the current kind of like reward structure?
Do you feel like that is a big block?
Like if that is a blocker, like one thing that we could end up doing is just including PRISM in the photons campaign.
And then people who are Y-Staking PRISM will receive treasury distributions and they'll also receive photons,
but they won't receive PRISM tokens block by block, sorry, daily as rewards, basically.
So that could be something that could be done instead.
Yeah, I think that would help. I would think that would help a lot, you know,
because there's some, I think you've commented in the forums about what's just a kind of a technical difference, which I'm sure is the case, but also, you know, there's dynamics to consider,
right? If that's what's going to occur, then you've got some alternative analysis to do on
whether you want to stake for incentives or stake for rewards. And those are good discussions to have and good options
and opportunities to, you know, to consider. But right now, that's just a lot of unknowns
there. So I think starting to solve for some of these variables will be like really helpful.
Just by two seconds.
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I think maybe we should put something up in the forum
to gauge sentiment on it,
but maybe when the PRISM rewards run out this time,
maybe it's better to include PRISM in the photons campaign.
I think, yeah, like people obviously then won't receive C-PRISM daily.
Maybe that's a net positive
because it reduces any kind of like selling pressure
that people are doing by farming. prison daily. Maybe that's a net positive because it reduces any kind of like selling pressure that
people are doing by farming. But then it does also mean that people will receive any treasury
module distributions, plus they'll also receive photons as well. Whereas at the moment, they're
kind of like having to choose between incentives or treasury module. Yeah. Yeah. Do you even think,
I'm just looking at a calendar, you know i know we've had some
discord posts up for a while but is there even time you know technically to vote on and then
execute like a distribution potentially before you know the end of the month
you know, the end of the month.
Yeah, I mean, so I guess like some of the votes that need to happen,
which I think I mentioned, I might have mentioned to people before,
but like I think is, you know,
some of the first things that need to happen are vote period actually needs to
be voted on, which we were discussing in the forum,
like how long should a vote take?
Should it be 14 days for a voting period?
Or actually is that just way too much?
And you can vote in a much shorter time period
and make that a couple of days.
So that's one thing that will have an impact on that.
I think quorum is another thing
that needs to be decided on.
I think without the PGAT module, you'd need a very low quorum is another thing that needs to be decided on. I think without the PGav module,
you'd need a very low quorum to effectively get a vote through.
I guess for people that aren't familiar with it,
quorum's like what percentage of prison holders
actually have to turn up and vote for a vote to be valid.
So whether it's a yes or no vote doesn't actually matter.
If the quorum's set at 10% and only 5% of total prison holders vote,
then quorum's not reached and governance isn't,
whatever is voted on isn't implemented.
So there's those two key ones that are important.
I think that's part of the reason that getting this liquid governance module
live will be helpful for people because then all of liquid state prison
will be voting. So it's much, much easier to achieve quorum.
So those are kind of like two of the things there. And then, yeah.
And then like really, really it's up up to up to people after that like once uh
on a parameter change like um unbonding or a treasury distribution i think what happens with
the treasury distribution is like once the government vote happens it automatically starts
the treasury distribution right there and then i think there's a parameter to determine how long
the flow trade lasts where treasury assets are auctioned off in
the flow trade um but i think you know that's i think it's a i'd need to double check but i think
it's like a day or something like that um so i think all of this stuff can be done pretty quickly
if you know but all it it's it's basically like there's a lot of knobs and dials for people to
choose and vote on.
I think the reason that we ended up doing that is because we didn't want to just be,
we ultimately just wanted community to decide on, you know,
to have the ability to decide on stuff and to try and make this more decentralized.
Like we didn't want this to be some sort of multi-sig where we made all of the decisions autonomously as a team
and then pretended
like uh community could vote on stuff but actually they can't like all all of the like i guess what i
said to the engineering team at the very start of making prism is like everything that can be a
parameter on the change should be a parameter like should be a parameter to my mind so we can set
initial levels that we think are sensible, but we should make
sure these aren't hard-coded values. We should make sure that these are parameters that, you know,
when we see how the system's working, then knobs and dials that the community can choose to tweak.
So whether that's, you know, your voting period, your flow trade periods, your treasury module
distributions and periods and that sort of stuff. So yeah, that's kind of like a bit about how it works,
but also, yeah, the time period can be pretty quick.
Okay, makes sense.
Yeah, I'm hoping the testing will be clean on the PGov up on Testnet
because, you know, I think there's not a lot of incentive right now
to be holding Naked Prism.
And if Naked prism is all
that can vote you know on props that go up before the um the pgov modules live then you know i i
don't know that we're going to get enough votes to put anything push anything through and we're
going to exclude a lot of the people who are your biggest users which are doing things with their
prism you know not just holding a naked prism i mean i mean one of the people who are your biggest users, which are doing things with their prism, you know, not just holding a naked prism.
I mean, one of the interesting dynamics is if you're a P prism holder, then you can vote
in governance.
If you're a C prism holder, you can vote in liquid governance.
If you're a C prism holder, then a treasury distribution works well for you because you
a treasury distribution works well for you because you receive a cash flow um if you're a
receive the cash flow.
p prism holder then uh it doesn't work well for you because it increases the value of y prism
which decreases the value of p prism so there's some interesting dynamics at play there about like
whether you know p prism holders would want to vote for a trade you know would want to vote
positively for a treasury distribution because if they end up vetoing one it might end up meaning
that um p prism price increases relative to relative to prism so it's going to be there
definitely will be some interesting dynamics at play yeah and now that we're up to 14 days on
bonding you know with one day you could hold the p you could refract your c and take advantage of some rewards and pretty quickly pull it back into C prism and
vote. But if there's a short fuse on a prop that goes up before people have time to unstake their
Y prism, you know, to be able to fully participate, again, the voting dynamics could shift.
again, the voting
dynamics could shift.
Yeah, it's definitely going to be an interesting one.
Kalabi,
sorry, you came up, but
I forgot to say that. Crush as well.
Hello.
Hello, everybody. How's it going?
Not too bad. How are you doing, sir?
Finalizing
a move, so it's been a busy time. But yeah, I think interesting conversation.
I guess one, I just want to encourage anyone here who hasn't chimed in. There is a couple
of discord chats going on. You know, jump in, get a part, be a part of the discussion.
You know, as Ollie said, you know, they left a lot of parameters and stuff for us to kind of like figure out.
And I agree with YMB.
I think over time, I think crafting and maybe we take notes on like, what does this framework look like?
I don't think it's going to be figured out right away.
And we might make some changes along the way, like we'll have some initial conditions set and then say, maybe that unbonding time wasn't a great idea.
Maybe it's less, maybe it's more, maybe that vote time wasn't a good idea.
And we'll adjust along the way.
But I agree with the overall timeline of like, let's get this voting period figured out,
P-Gov figured out, the unbonding time and then a distribution.
Because I think having, making sure that the community who's been holding in and like being
a part of this protocol, C-PRISM, B-PRISM, whatever it is you're holding, can participate
in some of these pretty important forthcoming proposals.
So yeah, I just encourage everyone who's here, hop in and you know, don't be
don't be scared. We're all figuring it out. So I just want to encourage everyone to do that.
Yeah, nice one. Well said, sir.
Crush, how are you doing?
Hello, hello.
Unmuted, all right, cool. We'll crush it if it starts working again.
I mean, it's done that thing where it reconnects and connects you.
I'm not hearing anything, but yeah, we'll go again if it comes back.
I guess one thing I wanted to ask the speakers that are up,
like, you know, I'm just interested for SEAL and interested, yeah,
like if people want to write in the chat as well like
what like when when you trade do you just not not specifically on prism but when you're buying
tokens normally do you just swap or do you leave a limit order like if you are trading on finance
for example would you swap or would you leave a limit order
when you're trading on decentralized exchange,
you know, Uniswap or is it not Uniswap,
like trading on Ethereum or trading on the inter chain?
Would you swap or would you leave a limit order?
Whoever wants to go first can go first.
I do a combo.
Like, so, you know, we recently did a pretty big rebalance at Ophir Down.
We took a good chunk of our BTC and made an allocation.
And so with some of those, I would, as a foundation, just do DCA swapping.
And then I would set limits in a staggered approach so i'd allo
50 50 either side 50 is dca 50 is my staggered limits so i'm kind of doing both because i want
to make sure that we're at least getting position and granted our you know we're doing an allocation
or reallocation so you know want to make sure we're getting position, but also trying to maximize the, uh, how good that position is. So that's, that's kind of how I do it. You know, a little
GCA and some staggered limits with increasing trade size, um, on the way down. Yeah, that makes
a little sense. Um, yeah, I'm a, I'm a combo as well. You know, for example, I don't do much trading on sexes other than kind of like a regular, you know, years long at, you know, maybe certain levels to scoop a little bit more. Um,
and then sort of on, on chain, uh,
in the cosmos there has not been great limit order utility,
limit order creation utility. And I've been principally a cosmos DeFi guy.
So it's been mostly swaps there until, you know,
Prism came along with, you know,
Pulse Trade and DCA.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Well, out of interest, like, why not so much
on sexes, just
sex risks
or KYCs and that kind of
like annoying KYCs forms or the rest
of it or like what sort of stuff
like i guess in the us it's more difficult as well yeah i just one i'd rather not have my trading
volume there two you hear enough of these anecdotals um stories about people getting
having their resources locked or held um inexplicably you know coinbase and other places as well and
and plus there's just you know there's a small universe of tokens tradable on
sexes a lot more variety you know launching yeah great i think that i think like
the only i mean it's like that's the privacy side on the sexes but I think like the one
that um what I really don't love is you know if people you know as as has happened already like
if you end up getting you know if your data ends up getting leaked your email address and then you
know someone is able to hack your entire trading data and your entire trading history and your entire net worth linked to your email address your all of your kyc details
that you've provided um it's just a it's just a pretty sketchy place like i think if you if you
you know if you went on online banking and i know I know it does happen a little bit online banking,
but not as,
but not as bad,
but like,
you know,
the thought of someone getting hold of your entire bank history,
your entire funds,
your address,
where you live and all that kind of stuff,
is pretty sketchy.
And I think like that's the risk with that on centralized exchanges is just it's super high
um or like way higher than i'd be comfortable with so i think that's why i definitely prefer
trading on decentralized exchanges where like even if a wallet's trading history is on chain
um it doesn't necessarily link it to your email address your personal details your kyc
everything you've done so um you have that kind of extra level of protection.
And you've seen those news stories about people getting ransomed on stuff because people have been able to find out their trading activity, etc.
activity etc and what their wallets hold and so i think you know the the non-connected nature of
trading uh on chain versus trading on sexes i think is like a big one for me why i'd rather do
it but yeah like when i trade when i do trade on centralized exchange um i'm like 100 limit orders
because even even if um you know say I was going to DCA
like you said
if I'm going to be like
okay I'm going to
sell some Atom
every single day
or something like that
I might end up like
going to trade my Atom
that I'm going to trade for the day
and I know that
on any given day
Atom can
move up or down a couple of percent.
And so to me, I'd always like set a limit order,
say if I wanted to execute really quickly,
like half a percent above where we are,
or like, you know, if I was happy to trade
within the next six to 12 hours,
but still wanted to have a really good probability
of it getting executed,
I might set an order like 1% above where we are or 2% above where we are.
And then I feel like you've still got a really high probability your trade gets executed that day.
But also then you're making 2% credit return than you would in just one trade.
And if you start analyzing what 2% a day is on every single, on all of your trades,
then it suddenly compounds and becomes like a really, really material amount.
So that's kind of like, from my side, why I really like leaving limit orders on highly volatile assets.
Like, you know, for things that, for assets that really don't move a lot, like, you know, trading, I don't know,
treasuries or boring fixed income instruments,
you know, where you're not doing it on leverage.
So, you know, it's not like, you know,
you're not getting volatile swings
with a couple of percent a day or something like that.
I wouldn't do it as much,
but for things where there's like massive volatility,
I feel like the compounding effect
of just setting a limit order 1% or 2% above the current price is, you know, definitely adds up and compounds over time.
I don't know whether that's something you guys agree with or would like to have a counterpoint on, but that's kind of the way I end up thinking about it.
I just wish there were better places to do that level of execution.
I mean, I guess there's injective.
I've been using, I didn't get to use Ruggiero for a little bit because we've got a decent
allocation over there.
And so I used some of that to do our Ruggiero reallocation.
And there, I mean, it was a very smooth experience, placing all the orders
and editing them on the way down. But yeah, I would agree with that take on it. I just don't
know if it's for everyone because it's a lot more, it's a very, I don't consider myself like a very
active trader for me personally. I like to make either bigger moves on big macro swings
and kind of just be really patient.
Cause I just don't think personally I'm the best,
like I'm not the greatest trader.
I still need to work on some of that emotional
and like patient side.
But I think if you are like a skilled trader
and you play, hey, these are my rules, I'm just one, 2%. I think, yeah,
I would 100% agree.
I think the take the small wins and those small wins can become quite a bit over
like a company, uh, annualized.
Yeah. I mean, one thing I'm wondering for seal is like, because like you say,
like when I, if you're, if you're if you don't have you know your own algorithms or
calculations for it when you log on to an order book and you're like okay cool well i'm on the
order book now i'm going to set a limit order you know one percent or two percent above seems like
an okay level given the volatility just looking at the kind of like the range this thing trades in
you know it's it's it's you're kind of having like a rough rule of like one to two percent and
kind of looking at it but it's not like it's not like uh super specific or or quantitative like
in terms of you know you it's not the product of a formula. It's kind of just like general feeling. I wonder with something where, you know,
it's useful for people because it's,
to have something which the table where it'd be like, okay,
if you want to trade Atom now,
the current Atom price is, you know,
you want to sell one Atom,
the current Atom price is $4.50.
If you want to have a 98% chance of selling Atom, you know, like, say you would say
you want to sell Atom like, within the next 24 hours, then it then it would be like, okay, well,
like, if you set a limit price of 4.6, given the current volatility in Atom, there's like 98% chance of it executing at 4.6
in the next 12 hours.
All right, if you want to sell in the next six hours,
then you probably need to set it to 4.55.
If you want to do it in the next hour,
you need to probably set it to like 4.52.
It's just like a really quick table there
that's like, look, what's my timeframe
that I want to sell it at?
What's my kind of like probability
that I want to take it out? What's my kind of like probability that I want to, you know,
take that it doesn't execute.
And all of that's just like numerical and just based on the volatility of the asset,
like the option,
the options market actually prices all of this stuff for you.
So price is the probability at any given point in time of like whether an
asset will be above or below a certain level at a particular point in time.
So you have all this data available.
And with AI, it makes it a lot easier to synthesize without having to do your own very complex calculations.
And so having something simple there, which you don't have on centralized exchanges or decentralized exchanges at the moment,
it's just like, cool, look, if you want to sell this token, a suggestion would be, you know, sell a limit order here.
And then you're giving yourself a 98% probability that this token will be sold within two hours or something like that.
And so it kind of like takes a bit of the guesswork out of it for people and gives them something quantitative.
I don't know whether that's something people would find useful, but it's just something we're thinking about. I think that'd be super useful.
It's kind of like, I know it's not an option, but it's kind of optifying a limit order.
It's like, hey, based on these Bollinger's and the volatility, you could expect this within this period of time.
I mean, as a user, part of the with lemon order is like is this going to execute when could
this execute if you had some kind of output that said and obviously you know you'd have to take
with a grain of salt but like within this probabilistic distribution you know you have
x amount of percent of this executing i think that would be super helpful and uh fairly novel
i would say all right cool like, that's helpful feedback.
I think we're trying to,
I think we just want to provide something super useful
and super easy to understand.
So it's just like, look,
how long do you want to,
how long are you happy to sell this for?
Okay, we can tell you what probability
and what price that should be on an order
and then you can decide whether you want to do it or not.
But yeah, that's really helpful.
Cool.
Sorry, I realize we've run over on the time.
Thank you very much, everyone.
I think, yeah, quite a lot of things we discussed.
I think some people have said they found the summaries
that one or two of the mods have been doing in Telegram super helpful. quite a lot of things we discussed i think some people have said they found these summaries um
the one or two and the mods have been doing in uh telegram super helpful so either i'll do one or
work with them to get one out of this and then um yeah quite a lot of things going on i think
refracted beasts mint is hopefully the next big exciting one. So stay tuned for that. And then if anyone's got any follow-up questions,
please tag me in Telegram or Discord.
Thanks very much, everyone.
Sounds good, brother. Have a good one.
Cheers, everyone. Thanks for all our speakers.
Bye-bye. Thank you.
