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$PUMP launches strong. Why we think fading it might be a mistake!🎙️
Recorded: July 16, 2025 Duration: 0:45:09Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the recent launch of PumpFun's token, which raised $500 million, marking a significant milestone in fundraising. The conversation also delved into the competitive landscape with comparisons to Bonk, highlighting trends and growth potential in the meme coin sector.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, we can get started.
Sorry, guys.
We typically host these spaces at 4 p.m. UTC.
It is now 8 p.m. UTC.
Just had a pretty crazy day and was feeling under the weather.
And I've also been trying to experiment with new time slots.
I just think that we've been hosting this show for almost three years,
every Wednesday at 4 p.m. UTC.
I find that that hour has started to become super saturated with spaces.
And then I'm also finding that certain hours of the evening
or later in the afternoon, I'm looking for spaces to join because I want to have great conversations.
The Mario and Notfall space is one of the ones I love joining.
I also love joining David.
God, I can't figure his last name.
CryptoPulse.
Goshing.
David Goshing.
I like joining the CryptoPulse.
I like to join Fred Kruger Spaces.
Those are also very good.
Donish, Dr. Donish, he also has some awesome spaces.
I'm shouting out some people that I've been seeing open up.
But there are certain hours of the day where none of my kind of favorite groups of people are getting together and having conversations.
And so I'm trying to find out which hour to move this show to so that, one, I can join more of the noon spaces that I'm invited to,
because there's a lot happening then, but also to fill a void that I think a lot of other people are having when it comes to finding quality spaces.
I hope that we're in the quality category. I do my best.
But anyway, PumpFun launched their token. It was getting a lot of hate on crypto Twitter.
And I said this to Pulse yesterday, or I think it was the day before. But I've been around long enough where I, not always, but usually I'll just do the opposite of whatever crypto Twitter is
saying. So if CT is saying that ETH is dead and ETH is not coming back and, you know, I'm going
to buy ETH, right? If crypto Twitter is saying that PumpFun is an extractive, vampiric piece of,
you know, a piece of software that, you know, has only been a net negative for the industry. And therefore,
I'm not going to participate in this extractive token. I'm going to find a way to buy. Sadly,
I'm a U.S. citizen and I couldn't buy directly for the public sale, but I did buy spot.
I told this to Pulse and some others that I've spoken to on Spaces that I did not want to miss this train.
And I do think that if we get an alt season, this token is going to perform well.
And we can dive into why I believe this. Obviously not financial advice. I'm wronged a lot if you
listen to me. Only thing I've been right about consistently on my Spaces is Bitcoin. So listen
to me on Bitcoin if you want. Ignore me on everything else.
Take it with a grain of salt.
I think that the Pump token is bullish.
And one of the main reasons is because PumpFun
is the most popular protocol of this cycle.
And it is arguably one of the top five most,
you know, paradigm shifting protocols of crypto, right?
I can Uniswap, Aave, Curve, Compound.
Compound and Yearn, I don't hear them.
They're still DeFi OGs.
I don't hear about them as much.
But I've never seen a DApp, a protocol, do what PumpFun has.
And generated almost a billion or excuse me, almost
a billion in revenue. They have a massive war chest. And when the token launches just barely
above the public sale price, I couldn't help myself. I had to go in. So I want to wake up,
wake. I want to welcome Anastasia to the stage. We've never had you on before. How are you doing?
Hey, guys. Thank you so much for invitation super excited to be here
today my name is anastasia i'm a partnerships and venture lead at peanut trade and we are a leading
proprietary trading firm and a fair me me me market market maker uh so yeah i'll be super happy to
talk about the pump launch today and share some of my thoughts on what's happening in the market.
Yeah, so tell me, what do you think about the PMP token, the launch?
Is it something that you want exposure to?
Is it something that you're staying away from and, you know, you're not a fan of the protocol and therefore don't want to hold something that's really so far not tied to anything tangible apart from the actual business, right?
You're not getting any returns from it. There is no real utility for it yet.
But you are betting on Pump Fund continuing this meteoric rise and building out more infrastructure.
At least that's what I'm betting on but i want to
hear from you anastasia what what are you thinking about this token so the way that i choose to look
at it is from two perspectives one side which is a token side and of course another side which is
pump.fun as a company um as i've mentioned previously, a part of my title at this company has something
to do with the venture side of our business. And I always like to see how a certain type of
dynamic within the space is evolving. And definitely, Pump was something to look out for because they're definitely setting
trends within the social finance landscape i mean on it like let's be honest this is a one of the
largest fundraisers ever secured in crypto especially like one of the biggest icos within
the last couple of years so it's definitely something that if, even if you're not participating,
this is something that you should be watching because these guys are really
making changes in how we see the space as a whole.
I mean, you have to, you have to agree that this was amazing.
seeing almost half a billion, if I'm correct, being gathered in under 15 or 12 minutes.
I seeing almost what half a, half a billion, if I'm correct,
So yeah, definitely something to watch out for.
I was also closely monitoring who were the buyers.
who were the buyers.
And this is a really good division between the whales,
between the bigger guys, as well as the retail.
And I think that this is definitely signaling something
that we should all be closely watching and monitoring.
But one of the other points of the discussion
that I wanted to
bring in today is, of course, Bonk, because Bonk is taking a bigger market share. So yeah,
we'll be happy to hear your thoughts on that too. Yeah, I'm glad you brought up Bonk, because
Bonk was brought up on Pulse's space a couple days ago. And I want to pass it over to him in a sec. But
people are talking about Bonk's emerging volume and the number of people using it and the fact
that their revenue has been more in the last few days or maybe a couple of weeks than PumpFunds has, but I like to zoom out and Bonk has still only done a tenth of
PumpFunds' cumulative revenue. So whether or not they're able to sustain this growth,
right, I haven't messed with the Bonk fund or whatever they're calling it version.
So it would be cool for me to sit down and kind of compare the two side by side. I do think that first mover advantage is huge in crypto.
I do think PumpFun has that.
I'm not holding any BONG token, but I am holding a good amount of the Pump token.
I got in at about half a cent, a little bit over half a cent.
So it wasn't too much higher than the sale price, but it's also
lower than what it is right now. I'm seeing different solutions like Bonk, like Moonshot.
There is another one that they come and there's a period of time where they start to dominate in volume, but they soon fall back behind Pump.
I think Pump is the king of this kind of shitcoin factory narrative, if you will.
However, I guess I will say that Bonk is one of the OG memes of this cycle, and they have that going for them.
They have that strong community going for them.
So in a sense, it's interesting.
I mean, it's interesting to see who ends up coming out on top.
I do know that they have this massive war chest at Pump.
And that allows for a lot of innovation, a lot of ideas being executed on.
I don't know what the war chest is looking like over at PumpFun.
Excuse me, at Bonk. Sorry. I'm a little – I don't know if I war chest is looking like over at Pump Fun. Excuse me, at Bonk.
Sorry, I'm a little – I don't know if I mix up the names there.
I want to come back to you, Anastasia, but I want to – Pulse, we talked about this a couple days ago.
Has your sentiment towards it changed?
Has your thesis towards it changed?
I want to hear from you.
Not too much, but I did take some appreciation away
from the way you explained your positioning behind it.
And what I will also say is it's always different
how my opinion comes out when I'm a speaker
and I'm not actually co-hosting on Mario shows.
Very different version of what I might say.
Bonk has been around a really long time.
That's the first thing I want to remind people.
Bonk is not new.
This is not a new token that just came out with this software
bonk has been struggling to remain relevant for a long time and i don't mean that in a negative way
i mean meme coins often have to pivot you know if they didn't have a metaverse and switch to ai at
some point now they're all moving to launch pads and you're going to see other tokens currently
developing their own launch pads because of pump fun and because of bonk and they see these huge
numbers get tossed around but bonk has like you said has had a fervent community for a long time
because it's a really successful meme the the classic bonk narrative the the derivative that
it is but pump fun raising 500 million establishes that they are absolutely the giant they're the
goliath to the david of pump of bonk bonk is fun and it's great that they showed
up but i don't think that they stand a chance like if the bull run comes back what are people
going to go to use pump funds got the narrative i think that honestly that that mind share is going
to be more important than anything and i've checked out bonk but i've also checked out like
three or four or five other launch pads because they're i mean you can throw a dart and land on
a launch pad depending on which chain you're aiming for. So I think, I think you're right to, to position yourself for pump
fund. I just don't know what the real value of that company is. I just don't know, you know,
it's a good point. When you say real value, what do you mean? Because when I, you know,
the numbers they've generated is certainly a real, correct? Well, revenue.
At the end of the day, when I'm looking at a company, I'm thinking, how much money do they make?
And then if I annually look at this over the course of a year and then they tell me what their expenses are and all that boring stuff that no one wants to do in crypto. So the research that you would do if you were actually investing in a company instead of speculating in fake Internet money.
What is the idea that I am investing in that they are going to be around and solvent in a certain amount of time before I can step my way out gracefully?
Because no one wants to hodl until the end of time. You're supposed to eventually, I don't know
if you know this, but you're eventually supposed to sell this stuff and get yourself a vacation
home or a yacht or whatever. But can they be sustainable in a way where if I look at this
over the course of a year, because your thesis, Noah, was not a short-term thing. When you explained this on the show, you made it pretty clear that you were here
come hell or high water for the height of the bull run. And we are not there if fear and greed is
below 50 and Bitcoin dominance is 63%. So you must too believe that they have some revenue model,
but I don't know the value of the business. That's what I meant by value of the business.
Yeah, no, that's certainly fair. And I did give a disclaimer if it wasn't on your space it was on another one that i
i'm not holding this token and i could be eating my words in a few years but i'm not planning on
holding this token across uh multiple cycles you know i i just but i also don't really like to hold
anything other than bitcoin. It used to be
Bitcoin and ETH. Now my perspective has completely changed. I don't really want to hold anything
other than Bitcoin in a bear market. I personally don't want to accumulate anything other than
Bitcoin during a bear market. I'm a slow learner sometimes, I do learn I do eventually learn and I think that
um I see this pulse as a I see this as a cyclical play and I think that these a lot of people say
well these guys have already made so much money and um you know they're just going to extract more
and fuck off I I think they have something to prove I think they have something to prove and
I think that they have the war chest to do it um And so I'm continuing to hold. And I've also said that if it, for whatever
reason, dips below the public sale price, I'm going to buy more. So I want to pass it to Chihan
because I think Chihan needs to go pretty soon. And then I want to get my boy Achilles in the
mix as well. Hey, what's up, guys? Thanks for having me here. So I just want to quickly say like, I mean, I do see like there's like a 5050 in the community. So I don't think it's all it's all like bad talk when it comes to pump. Like a lot of people are kind of like here and there, right? And we can see that it is it is a giant narrative. It's been one of the biggest walls out there. It's just the only thing that is concerning to me is the person that's kind of running it, right?
And so far, we have only seen that value extracted from PumFund as they have kind of come out.
And they could have done a lot of things over the times, like in terms of the infrastructure that they could have played out.
They could have, for example, went with some sort of a social pie where they are actually letting the DGens earn a little bit more rather than getting rock 99% of the time right so and they're not doing any of these things
even though it is a very good gamble but even casinos know that you got to make the casino more
playable so it's just i don't think pump fun is playable that is a problem and even bunk is
performing better when it comes to the meme coins that are launching there. So it's just, I just don't see the, I do think the token is going to go up for some time.
But personally, I'm not really buying into the entire narrative because I do think it's going to get stretched very thin,
just like we saw in the altcoin season where we were expecting the altcoin season to pump.
But because of all the altcoins that just started coming out of all the old old coins that just started uh coming
out all the projects that started coming out the liquidity got stretched too thin and i think the
same thing is going to happen to the launch pad narrative where we're going to see a giant amount
narrative on the launch pads but there's so many launch paths that are coming out like you said
uh that are coming and launching and the the the liquidity is just going to get thin and thinner and thinner and what i'm doing is i'm just comparing it to other competitors uh that
pump one has which one of them is wrong and i will say the biggest when they're uh the the biggest
competitor that pump one had was radium since they also launched their own uh on uh kind of launch
pad and since every time we were launching meme coins it's since
the liquidity was also going into radium as well as the fees i think radium was probably one of
the biggest ones and even radium managed to maybe get to like 5 billion market cap and let's say
bond managed to get to like five four or five billion or something as well so i really don't
see this i'm not really valuing this any more than about
10 billion market cap personally and uh i'm not really sure if the tokens are locked or something
but uh it is currently an fdb right so that is kind of one other concern that i have that it's
just uh that not all the tokens are in kind of circulation and there's a lot of uh pre-sale there's
a lot of private sale that has been kind of given out to a lot of uh k walls i know like for example for sure crypto banter
uh has got one i know a lot of other uh big k walls that also got the the the private sale which
once they start getting their tokens i know for sure that they're gonna start dumping as well so
those are all the concerns that just comes to me when it comes to pump one i do think the narrative is gonna run for a bit and then people
just being short uh short memory term you know like they're just gonna switch out to something
else uh they're gonna just see the new next shiny thing and they're just gonna kind of go through it
so valuation wise i'm not i'm not a it. It just came out at a huge valuation,
and it just doesn't have the infrastructure when it comes to it. They could have had so many things that they could have put there.
They could have even just gotten Kaito's APIs
to give people a little bit of a chance to let people understand
or, like, use cookie APIs or something to help people,
kind of like the DJs, to help them a little bit to understand
what are the devs that are launching in our platform, right? like give give the devs a little bit of a track history make it like
more of a social fight game or something right there's a lot of great ideas that they could have
done but they're just keeping all this the simple stuff that they are doing there i guess they don't
really want to do it to put too much effort even though they have the money we all know that they
have the money even before the pre-sale they had all the money um but they're not using the money to to really
build anything better uh they're just they're just trying to extract more and more so that's
kind of what i'm seeing i mean i don't know i i could be wrong i've been wrong a lot of times but
it's just i just don't feel safe with it but uh i do hope that it runs for a little bit
because i know a lot of friends of mine are i are kind of exposed to so i do hope they get like two
three x's like what they want to get you know but yeah i think that's my opinion yeah no initially
when i shared the space link chihan said i don't i have nothing good to say so i'm not going to join
and i i told him no that's exactly who i joining. I want people to come in here and just shit on the token and tell me, well, not that that's what you were doing, but
just kind of tell me why they don't think it's going to work out. Because let me just be clear.
I have a sell order. I have a sell order in at 10 billion, exactly the number that you said you
think it's going to go. So at 10 billion, I actually want my initial out. I don't, I think I want exposure. So I don't care about making profit right now, but I also
want to protect my capital because like you said, it's, there are a lot of, you know, I can debate
both sides of it. I can, I can certainly debate both sides of it. For me, it's more of just,
I want exposure to this narrative because I think the
narrative is going to do well. But I think you made some great points about how they could have
done a lot more in building out infrastructure, and maybe they are. I'm not going to say that
they don't plan on doing that. Do they need as much money as they raise? Questionable, right?
Very questionable. I agree with you there when I hear this
when I hear people say all they've done is extract I I almost don't want to I
just like don't want to really I don't agree with okay so if you're a business
if you're a casino you can call it extraction but you're just you've built a
business model that works and capitalism encourages you to get the most that you can out of that business model.
Nobody says the grocery store is extracting.
Why is that, Noah?
Well, we need food.
We need to eat food, right?
We need food to live.
Well, they're taking money right off the top.
Why is that?
What's going on?
Are we talking about Whole Foods or are we talking about Aldi, though?
Like, hey, what Whole Foods is extracting.
That's a whole separate space.
Whole Foods is definitely extracting.
There are things at Whole Foods that are priced like $2 or $3 more expensive.
These frozen burritos that I love getting, if you go to Wegmans, they're like $2 cheaper than they are at Whole Foods.
So I agree.
No one calls that extraction, Noah. They're just making mad profits because people are willing to
pay, right? It's a great point. And so, Chihan, one thing I hear about PumpFun is, okay, well,
they made all this soul and why aren't they holding this soul? They dumped it all at all-time
highs. They're supposed to do that. If we're talking about a trader, for example, or even a VC, that's great. We tell the
VC, that's amazing. You made all this money and then you sold the asset at all-time highs, and
now you're buying back in 50% lower. Shit, can you manage my money as well?
So when I hear the extraction thing, I think that the people playing on PumpFun are extracting.
I think the KOLs were extracting.
The Cabals were extracting.
It's not new behavior in this industry.
It's been happening for 10 years.
And I think PumpFun has just made it easier.
Just like crypto made it easier to commit financial scams, right? New technologies are oftentimes used to
commit, I don't know, either heinous acts or just criminal acts. And so I don't like the whole
pump fund was extracting. I think they had a first mover advantage and they built a business model
that basically, I would say for lack of a better term,
preyed on a behavior that already existed in the space.
Yeah, I think that's a fair point.
And I mean, I guess the more it gets hated on,
the higher the token is going to go, right?
That's usually what we have seen.
And I do think like, I'm also like, for example,
a big hater when it comes to Ethereum.
And I'll think that a lot of people will disagree me on that and i do know there are a lot of uh actual actual institutions building
on ethereum and i think the the ethereum chain will be the main uh infrastructure when it comes
to like you know the the place where the institutions are really building for a long time
long periods of time kind of like the the the java of of of the coding base like when it comes
to it will be like the solidity when it comes to the the blockchain right so i think that the more
hate it gets on i think that's that's kind of a good good thing when it comes to pump on and i
really don't think they care about it that's that's most likely why they don't care you you want to
stay the the most hated one in the game so you you can make the most money out of it, I think. For sure.
No, I totally agree with you.
And I think as Pulse mentioned,
there will be a saturation of these things.
Or maybe you had mentioned it, I forget.
But there will be a saturation of these things.
But just like there was a saturation of DEXs in 2021,
it didn't stop Uniswap from maintaining that throne because they were the first one to really do it.
And they're alive and kicking today.
And so if this type of launchpad model continues to grow and rise in popularity, then I don't see PumpFun going anywhere unless these guys fly too close to the sun, which is something that we've seen.
A tale that's been witnessed several times in crypto.
You think of SPF as the most latest example.
Excuse me, as the latest example.
Achilles, what's going on, brother?
What's up, guys? How are you?
This has been a great conversation.
I think I have a unique take on this.
So what you guys just went over was discussing how PumpFund was extracting from the market.
And we don't like the term extracting, but they were taking money out as much as they
could, and rightfully so.
They built a first mover.
They enabled Average Joe to participate in crypto in a manner that wasn't possible before.
They lost a lot of people money. They made a lot of people money. Pump Fund changed the game
fundamentally for lots of things. I have no hate for that. I think it was great.
I think it's awesome that they made a bunch of money. And now discussing their token,
I'm going to say two things that seem a little bit contradictory. I would buy it because they have something to prove and money, but your sell order is exactly where it needs to
be because they are going to extract it. Again, we just discussed their extraction and how they
take profits out of their company, right? The whole objective of PumpFun is to make money.
There was no need for this token. PumpFun already has the throne, 90% market share.
And just recently, they could innovate a little bit. They could keep that going. They could pay
traders more, but they came out with a token and 500 million raised. I would really bet that wasn't
organically in the funds flowing through that,
that are going to get taken out the other end in a new pool in a manner that
they can claim more easily without a lot of eyes on them.
So that's my take about the current situation, but good job, Bonk, by the way,
they did that on community and there've been a million competitors to pump fun.
They're the only one I've seen actually succeed and gain market share.
I'm not going to let you get off that easy.
Look.
Talk to me.
What do you got?
First of all, what do you think Bonk is doing right now that is allowing them to temporarily
flip pump fun?
And do you think it's sustainable?
Do you think that pump fun, do you think the pump funds first mover advantage matters
I remember when I started in this space before pink sale came around there was a pre-sale platform it was called
Dex something anyone old enough to remember that
Think I remember something
Remember white screen very professional looking they charged I think it was something. Remember? White screen, very professional looking.
They charged, I think it was like 2 BNB or something relatively expensive.
First mover advantage, they were expensive, right?
Then we saw the free market kick in.
We saw Pink Sale come around, right?
At the time, there was like nine other launch pads simultaneously, but Pink Sale was the one that stuck because they did the same thing for less.
PumpFun has gotten used to being the king they stopped adding value to the market and they were just extracting at that point right it was really innovative when it came out it was awesome
now anyone can deploy and i can fork wait a minute okay hold on i gotta stop okay so
okay we have to stop using the word or i guess in my opinion We have to stop using the word, or I guess in my opinion, we have to stop using the word extractive.
Because they're just a business earning revenue from people playing in their melting pot.
I don't understand why we're using the word extraction.
I mean, in that case, we can talk about loads.
No, no, no, no.
So wait, wait, wait.
Let's profit from the new things here.
This high-end jewelry company that I'm about to go and buy gifts from my girlfriend for because she loves jewelry.
Has buildings.
It's fucking extracting.
You're not wrong.
Profit is extraction.
That's fine, right?
The reason I'm intentionally, after hearing what you guys said, using the term extraction for pump fun, right, is usually when I'm in a market, I'm in a free market, right?
First off, I have a ton of regulations.
I have rules that I have to adhere to.
Pump fun doesn't have to worry about that in the same way.
Pump fun doesn't have to worry about an economy of scale.
Like you would with goods or services.
Right.
So I don't have to have any inventory.
I'm not doing much, man.
I came up with a good idea.
Right.
And it was a first mover and it was awesome and good for them.
But after a while, if you're not continuing to add value, like we
would expect from any company.
Okay. But it killed right. Okay. But, but Achilles, that's the beauty of decentralized protocols is you build something and after a while, you don't really have to do anything.
Look at the founder of Curve, for example.
You're right.
This person's a fucking –
Until.
He's filthy rich.
How much do you think he's doing at this point?
How much is Curve innovating at this point?
I think the level of initial innovation counts for a lot, right?
Bitcoin wouldn't be technologically marvelous today whatsoever, but Bitcoin's worth what it's worth.
So PumpFun brought in a bunch of new
traders but it's easily duplicatable as we just saw with bonk yeah but so bonk is uniswap that's
what we saw in the previous in the previous i was going to comment on that thank you how did uniswap
stay ahead liquidity uniswap had it's really hard to stick to create a stable liquid decks
right you have to have a ton of money to do that.
And pump fun just did it too.
Pump swap, right?
Which was so smart.
I saw that and I was like, you guys are hedging your cash everywhere you can
to make sure you can continue to earn no disrespect, man.
No disrespect whatsoever.
Like pump on is doing it properly.
The only thing I'm commenting on is innovation and competition eventually went out in
the free market and just as like adapt is crypto is the most pure form of a free market because of
our lack of regulations i don't need licensure i don't need sure i could be liable to being sued
but half the time there's so many projects no one even cares it's the real wild west so if someone can do it better
than pump fun and in particular bonk did it with real people who supported them they had a community
right people to actually push this believe in this it's great now let bonk take some of their
market share um i don't think pump funds gonna go anywhere i just don't see them going anywhere
positive either like they created something created something that's relatively stable.
People use it all the time.
Their listings are really fast after bonding.
Like, they've done some good stuff.
But where would you see this going from here?
I think I get Achilles' point.
So, like, basically, like, in my opinion, the only thing that PompFund needs to focus on as their service being a casino is just making the casino more playable, right?
Just a little bit more fun, right?
Because we are here to play the meme coin game, right?
I mean, obviously, it's not exactly PomPon's fault when it comes to all the rugs and all the stuff.
obviously cabals and all those people that were actually extracting value.
It's the cabals and all those people that were actually extracting value.
But what Pong Pong could do as the leader will be to just focus on making things just a little bit more playable, right?
Just looking at the data a little bit, just like maybe thinking or brainstorming in a way of turning things into more social pie.
But I guess they might be doing it as well, right?
It is like we don't really know at the end of the day because they they're they're talking about like Competing against like not even bonk fun or any of that stuff
They're talking about competing against things like tick-tock and Instagram. So that is
Kind of radio like to see if they were to actually build something for that
But I think that's that's what will be game-changing when it comes to pump on like if they were to actually do something about that
like if they were to actually do something about that let's see how how well they can do it too
man because i honestly they've got the resources they obviously have the intelligence right they
can pull this off should they choose but here's like a perfect example of why i do think pump
fun is too extractive and not innovative enough why wasn't there an airdrop for this coin noah
that's you've got thousands of traders to answer'm happy to answer that question. First of all,
I'm so glad there was not an airdrop because every leech and vulture is going to dump that
thing to oblivion. And I think, I hope that they refrain. No, no, no, don't do an airdrop. We see
how airdrops turn out. It's a dump fest, especially the kind of user base that PumpFun has. Most of
these guys are probably negative and they want to make back some of their losses. I think that if
they do an airdrop, they need to do it way, way out in the future. And I also know that I think
Chian was mentioning KOLs and people that got in at a lower price, potentially getting their tokens.
people that got in at a lower price,
potentially getting their tokens.
From what I understand,
there's a one-year lockup period.
So I would need to go and look into the nuances of it.
But I think they're being very careful
with who they give free tokens to.
I just think that they're more sophisticated
than people are giving them credit for.
I think what's important is that if we're talking about them rallying with Bonk,
if Bonk moves way too fast, already Pump.Fun has a lot of cash in their hands,
they might just acquire Bonk.
That's something that's most
likely going to happen, or they're going to use that money to just innovate faster. So that's
another thing. So I think having enough funds gives you a bigger advantage than just being
smaller and more innovative. Plus, they're already announcing all sorts of features that are going to change
the way that we're we're gonna see um pump funds ecosystem so yeah i mean i think what we also
failed to mention is that um before the sale um even until last night it wasn't clear why the
token was needed or more importantly where like the team will follow the hyper liquid model
by trying uh by tying the platform revenue to token buy to token buybacks but now they've
actually started doing exactly that with ongoing buyback transactions by the team
um it's just their um their the lifetime of a token is going to last way longer.
So I'm actually very bullish on PMP.
All right.
I feel like Anastasia wasn't,
I feel like you weren't as bullish
at the beginning of the space.
And the second time you spoke now,
you sounded a lot more bullish.
Did something change or am I just misinterpreting
your tone and sentiment? No, no. now you sounded a lot more bullish did something change or or am I just misinterpreting your your
tone and sentiment no no I was just trying to be more um neutral and I wanted to hear uh everybody's
opinion uh but yeah I I mean I'd like to judge the market being more neutral um rather than having
um a certain opinion before we actually throw some facts in it.
But now the more and more we look at it, I just feel like it was good to share my point of view.
But let me know, guys, if you don't agree.
No, I think I do agree.
And I think that, again, I think this is the cyclical bet for me. It's not something that I, and again, to reiterate, I don't want to hold anything other than really Bitcoin across cycles anymore.
It's not something that I want to hold long term because I still think the whole token utility, the utility token is a meme to me still.
And if that weren't the case, we would see utility tokens like Uni and Aave and Curve and all these assets outperforming Bitcoin.
They should be outperforming Bitcoin over a long period of time,
and they're not.
That's a different conversation entirely.
Achilles, I'm sorry you dropped off and came back up.
But to answer your question, yeah,
I think the airdrop would have been a bad idea,
and I'm glad they didn't do it.
And you also asked what is the endgame for Pump.
You know, I guess...
Wait, wait, wait.
I don't want to cut you off there.
I can't want here to be more positive.
Sorry, my phone dropped off there.
I'm not saying all this is negative.
You can be negative.
That's actually, I prefer people to come in
and just try to shit on it
because otherwise we're in a freaking echo chamber
and I might end up buying more than I should. I'm not necessarily to shit on it because otherwise we're in a freaking echo chamber and i might end up buying more than i should i'm not necessarily shitting on it i want to call a scorpion a scorpion
just so people make educated decisions based on the previous behavior of teams right so like it's
not that you're not going to make money on this i really think you will 10 billion seems actually
a little conservative to me um someone wants to drop 20k in this like pump fund has a lot to prove and they have a lot of market cap to go before they could extract so play that's your
advantage but if someone's thinking like oh man pump fun really wants this token to last seven
years and it's really going to turn into the next you know altcoin and i think my response to that
is just simply look at the previous behavior right right? We don't see a lot of community distribution.
Like buybacks go back to a pool they can draw from.
That's not necessarily going to us.
It could if you had enough supply.
But like chances are only a few people do and that's going to be someone on the inside, right?
That's the game and that's fine.
Just play the game with your eyes open.
You know what I mean?
Like crypto can be a a really messy
place and when you see a team with that kind of money doing something for non-obvious reasons
right like why launch a coin why not innovate and open some new things and do some other stuff like
keep your eyes open make sure you understand that anyone who's moonboying or being overly committed
to one project in this market is probably going to end up being upset.
I totally agree with that sentiment.
All right.
Well, we'll see what happens. I think that the pump token, like Achilles said, in a God-willing 2021 altcoin season type environment, I think $10 billion is extremely conservative.
I totally agree with you.
I'm just being careful, and I'm very risk-averse, which is why I have that sell order in at $10 billion.
which is why I have that sell order in at $10 billion.
But I think if they've topped out at $10 billion, it's a massive letdown.
And I don't – I just – again, I was telling Pulse this two days ago.
I have a very difficult time seeing the alt season, which everyone's saying is coming, come.
And this token not be at least 20 billion.
We've seen we've seen alts attached to popular products within cycles do astronomical numbers.
And so I think that this thing could really, if Bitcoin hit 250k,
for example, I would not be surprised. And you can tell you're going to eat your words.
I would not be surprised if this thing did close to a 10x from here. But again, take what I say
with a fat grain of salt, because I'm wrong a lot when it comes to alts.
I'm right about Bitcoin.
I'm wrong about alts.
So take it with a grain of salt and definitely don't invest more than you're willing to lose.
Thank you everyone for joining.
I wanted to try this time slot out.
It looks like – I think I want to try out
maybe 6 p.m. Eastern time next week.
I don't know yet,
but I want to try
different time slots out.
It looks like we got some good people
joining in a nice turnout today.
Achilles, anything else to add
before I wrap things up?
I love you.
And all the other guests were amazing.
Thanks, guys.
Love you too, man.
Thank you everyone for joining. Take care.
