I don't know why but I've just been fucking singing
Miss Sadie's been my friends. I don't know why I was just like
Trying to calm myself down getting ready for this shit like but I never mind
These cosmos ones especially y'all was the fucking lost IQ in the room man. Well, I am unless Finn's around but uh
Yeah, man, you're always the fucking lost IQ Oh
Talk about the devil say I mentioned the devil. I
Mentioned the devil and he approached me from afar. I
better read the abstract anyway in case he forgot he would have put it in he's a
Since this is our first ever one
Can you believe that Finn and are you like getting the terrace basis shit hooked up?
I I wish it hurry up and come in the rooms on your normal account
So you can tell me if me audio shit that they've been off the bluetooth on bro
So I can't hear shit. So I don't know but it should be Gucci. I'm outside. Actually, I thought
He's a bike. No, I thought I'll shut outside in the garden a minute cuz there's no dogs
I peaceful and I was like I can go inside at any time like once the room heats up once it starts blah blah blah
So B bands should be coming in
I've got someone finna very rarely send you a call
Didn't didn't even ask for a speaker tonight. I'm gonna need a call
Just to be able to tell people to fuck off in the day ends like when they'll request
Okay, I like that as a speaker, but you've got a co-host option should you require it? Oh
He's there. No, I've got a co-host. Holy shit, dude
There we are man, that's a long walk from the fucking
co-host booth to the fucking
Other booth good Lord. There's about a ten-second delays in there
It's quite frightening at times when there's convos going on and then there's a blackout
It's like the 1940s like London getting bombed in the 40s is like this ten-second blackout. You're like what happened? What happened?
I don't even know what's going on
In my dead in my life or is our building still standing what's what's the status?
Bro, are you doing what are we talking to the you? This is right during the white whale space. So
Are you ready? Are you ready though for tomorrow's space? Which should be a
By the way, I've been preparing
I've got my shit lined right on me when I'm so I've been preparing all week. It's like dude
It's like the complete opposite to to the jam hole
Culture corporate corporate jam holier culture
Well, I do I do a lot of show prep for the regular podcasts
Like I have a whole rundown and all that shit, but only cuz we read like news stories and shit
Bro, I don't know if you listen to the muskrat mustache thing that Baybans pulled off the other tear, right? But
When I checked you what you did not you did not sure did not know
It's been pretty hectic here. It's just raw shit, but the woman's back. So we all gooch
There's some insane moments in that space like you want it like here that one Baybans to start to talk about kids
They finished in the bath, bro. Oh, yeah, the old waffle stomper, huh? I
Heard somebody somebody mentioned that I was like, yeah, that sounds about like Iraq FM space. Oh
We chatting with today. I got I got a jam hole to post I got
Spaces to do what do we what we do? We're there. I'll hit him up one telegram
And he's gonna be like, sorry fam. I forgot today was the white wheel space. Oh
What are they introducing another bird
There's no link he says there's no link I'm done like to watch
First time on Twitter. What are you doing?
Broise I did the funnest part about these spaces is listening to all these big brains
Just fucking fumble their bag right through trying to figure out how Twitter works
rudimentary of all things but
It's going to make my money go up
There was a couple of horrendous spaces lately. What just like bombed like or crashed or whatever was I think was neutron
that was having problems then shock protocol was on problems and then like
Dude, we could talk about the quality of like what's getting pumped out right now and be like what I like
Talking about like the network itself. I'm talking about
Quality also a shit show neither here nor there the infrastructure also
We're so fucked you guys made you know something though like okay
So we'll get this out because this might be cut out on the proper show when abstract do come in
You said to me and I've been gone. I've been stopped myself from tweeting this out
From the rack of care like quoting not you were quoting, you know, the biggest archiver of spaces, right?
Which everybody knows will be you I'm I was literally like
Holy shit, like how many spaces are being pumped out?
But how shit is the fucking quality like the level is just abysmal just talking bollocks
And also see him like rinse and repeat like thin
It's like we'll never we'll never hit the glory days of the
Spaces, you know where the the first looping spaces and DJ ends going crazy. Like you'll never recreate them
There's no way so so do I mean our spaces back in those days were mental
So do you know Howard one of the co-founders the CEO of abstract is a ex-territoid? Yeah
Everybody everybody in every ecosystem is an extra death, bro, and half of them even got fuck in money
My poor poor bags bro, what about this store?
What about like only you know only validate that when I were Kevin Garrison's from right
You know the only guy though
Did you not say in the group chat the only guy like what he's treating about there?
I retweeted today with a comment. I really recall it read. I retweet with a comment
I don't know you call it. Well, bro. I was like, oh, there's some nerve like when only validate is like involved in like so
Retweet it out promoting, you know the prop 16 coin
Dude is a validated. Holy fuck. Is that?
Dude, but weird weird weird. This is like highly inappropriate
I mean, this is probably worse than the seat or crew say to validate the crew and gone all in on there was more
Right like holy fuck bro. I mean, I
don't know what to say man, I do like if if if the if the
I don't even know how to put this if if Epstein Island had an empty collection for the island
Those are the vibes right there
Unreal raw don't talk about islands. What's this? I heard the day the jay-z might air
I mean, we might as well fucking shit talk mouth. Let's record it anyway. So
What was it? I heard I did like I'd heard rumors
But now they're confirmations coming out
The jay-z has got a tiny little island stripping like the Bahamas like some other Caribbean's on there
with a lot of these like a lot of these rich people do because that's where they're they're doing their preps and stuff like
They're all getting ready for this
Shit, you know basically shorn up defenses fortifying
Rooks and one I like they're they're just what do you do? You know, like you have all this money you and all your rich homies
Like big brains have come to the conclusion that like yeah
This is not sustainable and if it's gonna hit the fan and it's gonna get all over us rich people first
So obviously next logical step by fucking island
It's just like a castle with a big moat that moat just happens to be the motherfucking ocean
And we're in the Caribbean it's full of sharks
That's the difference what a lot of today I am the Caribbean full of fucking sharks
So enjoy that and in Louisiana, it's full of fucking gators, man, you know
Dude, you know, I've been watching like loads of mud shit on YouTube and not recently, right?
Like one of the funniest things I'll take your word for it. We ate one of the funniest things
I saw was this woman so gets up in the morning. She's like
Fucking I can smell shit like she's like getting up and like Matt my coffee and that's like smell shit
No, and she's like gonna put the toaster on and like fucking cat had a shit in the door stuff
Which is a cat owner and our reaction is like
Absolute like normally you don't see cat owners reacting this way. She
Absolutely wanted to slice that thing's neck off right there and then she was
This is why I'm an advocate for
Emotional support stands, you know if one like gets up in your shit his is your offer whatever just fucking flush it
You have no harm no foul, but bro, you know the snail it wouldn't get down the thing in the toaster
Cuz he shall be too big right? So like yes these two smart snails are smart as fuck
You're a toaster, they know fucking better than this
Bro, the woman likes you pointed to like like the camera. She's get like there's the fucking little thing
Forming you can see like I was like that. Um, can we have a wellness check on that cut, please?
Our priorities have shifted to
Step one grab the phone and hit record
Like before anything is done motherfucker be bleeding out before they apply pressure. They're like, hold up. Gotta get my phone
So I mean, I didn't know if it's all staged or whatever with the island boys and not but like when they were island boys
But juicy got arrested for a didn't he was it you do see his name or something? What's his name?
Isn't a juicy or he got arrested for it, right?
Did you see the shit when he went to his house and he was like giving him that? Oh, do you know what it reminded me?
Oh, I'm not kidding. Yeah, the Jack Duck what he did do she think it reminded me of the P
Did he in Justin Bieber thing?
I think of those like ghetto fab shorts that just say juicy on the butt. Oh
Forgot his fucking name. I didn't even I didn't even know who he was at first. That's the heart
No, no, no, this juicy guy that had all the shit was I jacked. You see Jay
But bro, this not I'm just making up names. I have no fucking idea
How much of the little rod case have you read I've read a fucking ton bro the what
Defimate that definition. They're there
The fit not little rod, you know, they're producer. They'll say did either didn't get paid. He's just easily. Oh, yeah
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No, I haven't I haven't been nice the latest lawsuit again
The latest one that like he got raided right after this lawsuit drop, right?
Like this was just the latest like it was the final book and straw basically you could see I think it's like a
Law suit that's like, huh, bro
This is like worse than what he paid
What's on the exhibit a your honor? This motherfucker made me get bagels and cream cheese
Let me take the car. There's another fucker made me walk your honor
Bro, who did he pay the 30 million to it wasn't Kim Porter cuz he killed her allegedly air quotes
Kim Porter was his baby. Yeah, I don't know. I honestly I don't follow
The one you just live with you the one he lived like for 10 years or something Kim Kim
Where the fucks are I think come on? Let's get the show on the roof
And I'll tell you about abstract money here
Let's just we'll do reaction to a previous space that they were already on
Question. Yeah, did you catch the TFL?
Aerospace earlier. Did you get up for that? I presume you did you never miss that most important thing
Of course, I did I was about half-hour late cuz I thought today was the off week for some reason and I didn't like
Have it in my calendar because I've been kind of side
Yeah, it's you know, it's actually it's reporting right now as we speak
Okay, I'm gonna cuz I want to listen back to the when it's I'm gonna listen back on Twitter and if they do me
I always wait for the proper Spotify
Yeah, no, don't don't your ears deserve better than that
Yeah, well, bro, you triggered me a little bit is because like when you mentioned that about I was about half an hour late
I was on an L1 space like about two weeks ago and you weren't that no we're kicking off that you weren't there
So I like where is terrace?
Which was which who was it? Oh
Yeah, right, okay, so it's a Wednesday
Nine my time which will be like seven your time
So you'll know which space it was and like it wasn't even the horse that was kicking off. It was this Wednesday
No, it's like two weeks ago
But brought was just funny. I was like, where is Finn?
Where is Kara spaces like I was like guys you realize it's recorded and they can like catch it at any time
You realize he hasn't got to be there like I was like, oh
Fuck these more force don't realize to the lake
Seriously, bro, they're all cry. I'll just say the protocol begins with or
Yeah, for yeah for people that like build their whole businesses on top of a platform
They sure don't have the slightest fucking clue about how that platform works
It's so funny. It's like the ultimate black box experience
Don't know what to say like Finn
I mean I had some really really really really fucking good questions for your man
Hopefully you come in we've had these instances before why just hit him on the show
I have hit him up, but you know, do you know what he said though?
I don't know how this happened, but I think I do know he said all there was no link
Yeah, I've just checked telegram cost for some reason. I'm not getting a telegram notification from him
He was like, oh, there's no link in there, but I was like, okay
Well, I did tag and send them the link, but no, no, no, dude, you can't it's an open calendar
I can't put a link in for something that's not been created. So obviously I've realized today
That what I need to do is I need to back up
the Calendly like and I need to send them the fucking link separate, you know, I mean like
That didn't have a Mariah Lee where he's just living up. He's like a Neil and nothing
I just I remember saying something about how I
Don't like using Calendly, but I'm glad you're using it and not me for sure
And well, I use I just use a full like for work and not obviously a foot full like Google settled me
It's just really easy put for private. Obviously. I've got like proton email and shit
but like for general like stuff like easy stuff that I'm not too bothered about you don't like a
normal putting Google sweet for everything and it's like
Easy to be able to send like, you know a calendar with a link or whatever
But I just didn't think because all I've done is
Structure for anyone to click on the Calendly link and book a fucking slot on the show
Like I draw one table to be able to do that. I say disclosure down there. Please Sheldon down there
Smacks, this is what we're talking about. Like we want to be like eventually hopefully
We're just like I hit the link click a time slot bank will be a show on the go come and talk about like your culture
Obviously, we're not gonna fucking bother Tony. Yeah, but like we know most people we know who's Gucci and who's not actually Finn
Yeah, funny enough disclosure down say you were talking about then the other day
You about two days ago something in the group chat of the JC group chat
You were like, do you know these fuckers or something? And I was like, bro, you would they would talk to us on the show
We had a little chat with him
Then seeing him pop up in spaces and shit
Looks like they're getting ready to drop and so is TFM and the soul toy
There's gonna be a lot of hot drops coming up here soon
So what's do you blocked for you then? Cuz I know you're not the VPN guy if it's do you blocked you like fuck you
Well, I mean, you know jokes on them. I don't really use the name
Get you gotta do what you gotta do in a business
It's just I I would think if you were forced to do things that went in the face of the business you were in
You would maybe just do it for business. I don't
Do you do you know I'm free to do wherever the fuck they want, you know
Do you know anything about the TFM drop because at the minute, I mean I'm fine
Okay, what do you do? What do you know?
This does my PFP look like a galactic punk. Do I look like a bald truck in?
Ractatic survivor cancer victim. Come on. No cancer. Thank you
I wasn't sure which way which way to go with that. Do I look like Tom?
Do I look like Tom Hanks at the late stages of Philadelphia I knew where you were going with that fin
Do I look like Christian Bale at the end of dinner?
Do I look like Matthew McConaughey and fucking what's it one called again?
Also, do I look like Christian Bale at the end of the machinist
Fucking roasts come pay five bucks and get somebody roasted. I'll make them cry. Oh
What do I know I I don't know this is I mean like last week I pretty much tried to disconnect
So I'm still like just getting caught up. You know, we could do some funny shit like that though
When someone like gets rubbed and you could be like, oh look at this looks like Liam Neeson at the end of Schindler's list
And just keep going back and forth until somebody fucks up and then point point red and then you go to the next card
That's a pretty good idea for a podcast
Dude I'm dead excited about tomorrow actually because I
Don't know I've put like relativity into it. I've put like some personalization in the world
First rule podcast safe for sure second rule podcast write that shit down because you will not remember
Dude, I've been on it all week. It's fucking hilarious. Like I kind of believe how with this I like idea even started
I mean, it's only you're worn off. We're never gonna do it again
But they when we were talking about the last rights and not the last time it was like that's fucking death
Like and then I was proper laughing about you're talking a beach here, but who got the right to pull the
You can see why she is my
Significant other I don't know very many people you can say that kind of shit to and they would just be laughing and be like
I pulled the plug motherfucker. Fuck him. Oh
Bro, yeah, she's good shit, you know when you realize though as a human and not in many people do very young when you realize
You're not made of flirting glass and you just made a full complexion boy
Well, yeah, bro, the universe goes out of its way to remind me of that every goddamn morning and I appreciate it
Dude, I'm at peace with the universe me
That's taken a while didn't get me wrong. I had I grow along the way like I wasn't you know, I wasn't easy
Complete peace with the universe right now
It's not great peace until I found
And ever since then I'll tell you what
Has been a lot more fucking Zen a lot more
I was thinking about this like a door corn could like I allowed snails in jail or not
Oh, I want to send him one with like a little fucking note on the shell with like a little to your logo
I'm not paying the IP in the shell
Imagine people like you do with it, you know the eggs when you paint the eggs and each day
Yeah, yeah, just like turbo putting like gluing fucking model car parts onto it just to like make it look extra dope
Dude a little like couple of dabs of like a luminous paint on it's like tentacles, you know
I don't know if it would affect it's like momentum or anything. I don't know what they use forward
I know I'd go full need for speed underground with like the airbrush paint and the big old wing and the neon lights
And the stage 3 fucking kid. Oh, yeah, it should be dope
Bro, this is fair. Hey, tell your tell your boy. He's got a force close the app
Once he restarts it he'll see the space link. I think it's doing that thing where if you use multiple accounts
Sometimes it won't load slowly. Oh, yeah, of course
Nobody's joining. Nobody where I'm not any
I've updated the app about about 10 minutes before we did start like kick off like I did
updated right before we kicked off, but I was like
Well, it's been decent lately
Like if I need to I've got the tablet as a back up if I focus up
I can just jump on the tablet like really quick. So I'm
Sheldon I say disclosure there was down there. I say just smiles come up guys. She's all welcome
My calves have disclosed your doubt come in pitch, I'm curious
Mentioned my mind play. I mentioned that you mentioned them like two days ago. You were like I uh, cuz
We're like we're good friends with signal and like I'm not saying they do like a similar
Dude wait, no, you're not gonna believe this disclosure one second. Look we've jumped in. I believe Finn. We are sure
At days. I'm glad we've had a little like half an hour water cuz I was tense before your man
Like came in always expect it to come in
So like I've had off and I would have chill with you child
I've sat out in the garden and now I'm gonna go in and sit at the desk and do this professionally and properly
So do you you got you got snails in your garden?
Who me? Oh, I've got massive like African things dude. Yes, it's a big ones
Oh, I'm so jealous do bigger than me hand like as big as big as me hand like
But you're gonna get really annoyed. So before when
Winston was a puppy and he wouldn't leave them alone and they couldn't you know, do them damage
I like I did throw them a couple of them over the fence like
Like the size of house cats and shit, they're cool
Dude the huge it never mind or guys. I'm so comfortable for this interview
It's probably like the perfect foil or the perfect like inflection point a deer
Hey, bro. Sorry about the mix-up, but so glad you here. Yeah, how are you doing while I jump in the house? Yeah. Oh
There's amazing to be here. Yeah, sorry for the mix-up as well. Like I
Totally thought this was gonna be like a
recorded Google meets meeting or something
There's no no meeting link there
But you know happy to be here happy that there was some good like good chatting this morning in the last 30 minutes
Talk to the raccoon emoji, which I didn't know existed. So yeah, bro
You're our first there currently and so we're learning. I mean Finn. We're not perfect that we
tribal like we're getting did you tell did you tell him it was a Twitter space you gotta like
You got to help them out too, man
I might have just said you want to chat it you're not for a bitch like I mean, I'm perfect perfect
You know, yeah, literally. I just understood it as like yeah
Let's have a chat like, you know
Let's just talk. That's amazing. That's amazing. You know, the important thing is we're all here now. Yes, amazing
so I have to say it a day I've been on YouTube and
You know, I've watched you and Howard and I absolutely say like I know you guys like you're so relatable and and easy on
The eye and easy to watch
So we we never do shit like
We we we're not the circuit. Yeah, we build our own circuit
So our chats like campfire chill out kind of like I'm just gonna ask you guys
Why the fuck cosmos could you not already be retired now if you're just like
If you're just a being on Solana or some of the like could you guys not be like looking and fucking?
You know comfortable like seven figures and maybe it like on surf and Bali for the next like why the fuck?
What you've chosen for this project
Well, there's literally no other choice
For what we want to accomplish like cosmos is the best choice for like tech wise
cosmos has the most interoperable tech stack and then also like
Kind of the best community not gonna lie like cosmos is so tightly knit and I'm coming from the music industry
So like I'm coming from classical music. I grew up playing orchestras and chamber music and cosmos has those same vibes
You have these amazing people these amazingly intelligent people
That all like want to work together and they it's like yes
It's a little bit of an echo chamber and we have a lot of drama
but that's the same thing in the musicians world, but you know that that being said we chose cosmos because
Cosmos and IBC is the most powerful and most interoperable tech stack that allows for
Applications to be built and so we built abstract in cosmos
Because it was the only choice available and still is if you look at the EVM or Solana or move
Ecosystems like nowhere comes anywhere near as close as the interoperability with IBC
Like we have it natively like this is a superpower and we actually haven't seen people like really leverage this and
This is kind of what we've been really excited to talk about like more recently is the ability of cosmoism to control
Everything you can use it as a coprocessor
You can use it as like your home account for anything on the inner chain
You can use it to create like advanced multi-chain applications
You can use it to manage liquidity across like literally hundreds of different chains and people just don't do it
so we're excited to see people do it and
Cosmos is is the best choice cosmos is the only choice. Oh
We are a fucking good salesman you soon. I'll tell you
It's not often and I'll say we've got your man down there who will remain nameless
But there's not often that devs come up
You know and have this level of like I don't know passion and dude to be honest
We are we haven't done many shows lately and we're like we've been wanting to focus a little bit on some like infra
Sure, so like we've recently we've had like skip on
Astroment on and then that years are up next. So like this is a class interview, right?
How did you and Howard and not get together? How did this little team come about if I talk here?
Well, I mean it started at Cosmo verse 2021 at the very first Cosmo verse and
In the bathroom in the bathroom or out of the bathroom
Well, it actually started in the bathroom. Well, it started, you know
Before the conference because we met at a gay bar, of course
And this was probably the best co-founder meeting story like of all time
As like it's so serendipitous and we get to the conference and it's like oh shit. You're a dev
Because you don't talk, you know when you're at the other bars, but anyway, I'm joking
It happened at the conference. I met another
amazingly passionate and pissed off devs who was upset with the the cosmoism developer experience and
We we came together to kind of align the incentives and like one of the coolest things
Rack and Finn is that like my co-founder Robin
He was the first person that I talked to at the conference and then we just kind of we really hit it off
We talked a lot about, you know, Tara and anchor and mirror and like doing those Delta neutral strategies
like we had both made like the the same application that allows you to
Apply and and leverage that Delta neutral strategy for maximum yield
Automatically and like somehow he was the first person I met we vibed on that we vibed on degenerate stuff
We met doh kwon. We have a picture with doh kwon
and then yeah, we just became friends and decided to start abstract like
Basically like five months later and I quit my job and and now I guess that was two years ago. I
Heard on your video you mentioned 42 when you were doing like one of your little diagram things
Like your slides or whatever
Have you known those guys for like a while because you were talking about that or compound and stuff and how they can utilize your product?
Or an as an example of utilizes. Have you known those guys for a while or what?
Yeah, we we've known them for a while. We actually won the first cosmoism hackathon in Medellin with with Maritz
Who's like one of the core engineers on the 42 team?
So like at that hackathon, we built a cross chain
auto-balancing ETF product called equilibrium
Yeah, like Maritz was a killer dev then he got into abstract and then shortly thereafter
he met met up with Daniel mock club and
Eliseo and they decided to to start 42 and
At that point decided to build it on abstract
To allow them to build auto-compounders that scale across any Vex and cosmos so
So bro I was I was listening to a CEO
I mean, it's from the pine analytics interview a few months ago, you know, and he mentioned about the public goods funding and
We've been speaking to like I say escape and time we have another
So obviously like the E.A. Dow, you know came about but like as a as a entity as an org
Not you personally, you know as an org
Like how have you viewed the kind of public goods funding?
landscape in cosmos over the last 12 months have you seen radical changes or is it like
Like too little too late for you. What's what's happening there?
Because you say you all seem to be a little bit like mmm, not happy about it
Yeah, definitely not happy about it
Like, you know super overall like two years ago
The one word I would have given you is abysmal like the public goods funding in cosmos is abysmal
We applied to literally every single grants program in cosmos, but no one gave a fuck because we were building
Tooling that wouldn't drive value only to one chain
We were building interchain tooling and at that time two years ago. No one cared about interchain tooling
So I'd say in the last 12 months it the the landscape for public goods funding has vastly improved
We had a lot of really good conversations that awesome wasm. There's been some really good Twitter spaces
We recently just got a grant from
Neutron to build interchain application tutorials
Even though like it, you know, yes drives value to Neutron, but also benefits other chains
so I'm really happy to see like the cosmos kind of coming around and I know that a DAL has also been focusing on
interchain infrastructure and
Which is really valuable for the success of our ecosystem
I'll tell you what like dude you present so fucking well, can I just say that like been
Like your mind still like that. Like he's polished, you know polished like proper polished friend, you know
He's probably given this pitch like a hundred fucking times
So they said dude, you know
Isn't it the hottest like kid on the fucking street right now abstraction?
So we've like are we coming out of the modularity phase?
And like is modularity already cemented, you know following on from like all over shit like adm and everything else I'm saying
It's like abstraction like the next next biggest kid on the block because like
With abstraction it's quite weird, isn't it? Is it like how much does it apply to other ecosystems?
Uh, oh look at this fin cosmos jaw jumps in the room and requests in like 20 seconds. Calm down. Joe
You you have your platform
But what I want to know bro is like like abstraction
Like what does it mean on cosmos?
And then like how is it relevant on like other chains because I see all of this stuff the avm and blah blah blah
Can you talk about the next stage of like abstraction?
Oh, hell yeah. I mean abstract is is the well abstract abstraction is the my favorite thing to talk about so
Um, I I think this has been probably one of the most important concepts in the last few years like it started out
Um, you know in the evme system with account abstraction and the funniest thing about that is that like cosmos basically had everything
For account abstraction available at its fingertips, but didn't capitalize on it
um, and so account abstraction allowed like
users to interact with their accounts using different signer methods and like kind of pushing away the
usage of those accounts to smart contracts and allowing them to sign in with like google
or to use smart contracts as accounts, which is
Kind of what we built abstract on on abstract accounts
And so like this is this is one level of abstraction
uh, the next one that kind of happened after that was
Something we call service abstraction
so we integrate with all of the d5 protocols in cosmos like
all the dexes being osmosis and kujira and astra port and windex and
terris swap and megaloo and like
All of the dexes and as a as a developer you just you write your application that works for a dex
And so like it's the abstract dex in a sense because you're building for
Um every dex which is abstract, um same with money markets
Uh same with liquid staking providers
The service abstraction allows you to build d5 protocols that work everywhere and this is was
Uh main selling point when they when they started building on abstracts their auto compounders
uh a few years ago, um or like a year ago, I suppose
Yeah, the next level of abstraction is something that we've been talking about for a while
That's like now picked up speed which is chain abstraction
originally, we had pitched this as being able to write once
And deploy anywhere because you can do that with abstract you you write abstract applications that work on every single chain
um, so as a developer you don't have to be
Um biased or or tribalist when you write your applications because they work everywhere
Uh on the end user side, which I think has been more of a hot topic lately
Uh, that's like hiding the chains from users like allowing them to use applications without thinking about the chains
About spending gas about bridging tokens like really allowing them to use apps without
Um worrying about the underlying tech and this is something that we're just just so we don't just
Fundamentals cause them hasn't been this whole process
Cosmos and how it like fundamental has it been like what you guys have been doing like I heard you guys talking
About like wasm. He was just like saying that one of the biggest advocates i've ever heard. I was like, wow
Um, yeah, cosmo wasm is absolutely pivotal to this like you cannot do this with evm
Or you you cannot do this with solidity. You cannot do this with
Um your cosmos sdk. Well, you you probably could but it's like
Not entirely modular in the sense that you want it to be modular. Um
You you've built them like an sdk on an sdk is that right? Is that what i'm figuring out from like
Like I was like these guys have just built an sdk on top of the fucking sdk like and it's
Dude, I was fascinated but you you wasm
Uh angle and like I saw like your presentation, etc. And i'm like i'm like, holy shit
So you've obviously been following dao dao's progress and what those guys have been doing with integer accounts and stuff. Yeah
Oh, yeah, they're they're making huge strides
Who else have you guys like been working like have you been working with anyone closely?
Like any other teams like or dao dao or
Yeah, so we we've been working closely with the dao dao team noah and jake are like absolute goats
Um, also shout out to zeke for making polytone, which is the interchain
um account, uh standard, um
And uh, like yeah the other teams that we've been working with we're looking to work with skip relatively soon
Um in building a chain agnostic interface for interacting with applications
We're also very close with each of the cosmoism smart contract chains
So, of course we we started on juno
We are close with neutron. We're close with archway
Uh, we've been chatting with the new bureau team a lot. We're
Close to the osmosis team and more recently
We've been playing with union. I'm not sure if you're familiar with union
But union is not free alpha is it is not free alpha
Uh, it might be free alpha. I mean the beans maybe maybe i'll let you extrapolate
Spill them the beans spill them. Yeah, the beans
So union we want unity. We want to converge we want to allow for
Cosmos to expand to ethereum cosmos to expand all of the evm chains
We're using union to allow cosmoism to control
Accounts on the evm world and this means that you can use cosmoism as a co-processor
For doing anything on on evm
you can write all of your complex application logic in cosmoism and extend the functionality of
Um any existing evm chain because union
ethereum to connect to cosmos via ibc
They also have a cosmoism chain meaning that you can have all of your accounts on union
And allow them to control counts on evm. They can control osmosis. They can control anything
You can kind of use it as a liquidity hub
And now this is not as powerful as having like evm next to cosmoism
But we haven't we haven't seen that uh in in production yet. So
Functionality comes out. It's going to offer a lot more
Um capabilities than this current solution, but yeah, there's the alpha
when I when I listen to that though, I almost think that like
Things like celestia, which I know some people hate has been uh, you know certain particular type
Of org, uh, you're just gonna make them redundant
Like what I would like that
You were dairies. Okay, so
I was about to say to you, you know those
Like those abstraction, you know, especially on the dot level or whatever
Like is it going to make like l2's like redundant or is it is it a complementary thing?
Abstract so I guess that's another team that we've been working with closely recently is is roll kit on celestia
which allows for spinning up of
Sovereign roll ups and making l2's redundant. I think is
Not the right way to think about it because we still need these generalized smart contract chains to run applications that need
Better like, you know security model like that need a better security model that needs like this public execution by lots of nodes
uh, but with roll kit you can spin up these sovereign roll ups that allow you to
Basically have your own app chain or your own business chain or even your own personal chain if you're a super degen
Um, you can get abstract deployed in based in one line of code in around 10 seconds
Um on a celestial roll up and you can have your own
Uh applications on there and so making them redundant. I I wouldn't say
Is is correct, but making them more scalable?
More of what you're thinking about
I like I like I like that making them more skilled dude
We just prod and poke like finna finna tell you like like
We're random as fuck with the shit like we are
But before I go into the future which we often do like to do uh, I just want to say we've got cosmos
Joe here and respect their voice in the community. We've also got disclosure. There we've been here a while
Joe have you got anything in particular for your man edea from abstract? Uh, welcome by by the way, joe
Cosmos joe the rodney danger field of cosmos. Let's go
He blood dialed us is he in a
He managed to figure out how to butt dial on a twitter space. That's impressive
I think he's just coming here to ruin the space. It's all like we might have to drop him down if he's like
No, joe couldn't ruin a space
Wait, joe brings fun and sunshine
But like while you're getting that shit together, I will mention it kind of the the listening to
Mr. Disclosure doe speak there
Really reminded me of when the android and apple
uh really got like kicked off
And you kind of are almost seeing it but backwards in this space now where you know, you had all of these
different versions of of android and different manufacturers putting their own spins on them and shit and like
People just want something that worked back then and like we're kind of
That's that fragmentation point and we're like heading towards who cares what's running it as long as the shit works in the ui
Was something that is, you know
Yeah, I mean that's also very true. Uh, I think it was yesterday. I'm not sure whether you're familiar with enigma labs
So it's an organization that helps you track and record a database of all the sightings of let's say some sort of ufos
It just keeps how to track a database of all of it, right?
So it doesn't necessarily mean, you know, it's an alien or something
But people put it in you can put location coordinates and whatnot
And they were asking like, okay, who's the face behind the project? Who's spearheading?
And I was explaining, you know that we are three people who are the core
I even call it kickstarters
Because at the end of the day, it shouldn't be a cult, you know, it should there shouldn't be a face
It shouldn't be like oh, you know, it's this guy so it must be good
Like nowadays you can run organization by a group of passionate people who work uh work for it for the better benefit
So I think that's also very important and add to your point
I also like the idea that if you do need a face for your business, you can just use joe's
Yeah, perfect. I mean we can always do that
And find yourself on a lawsuit
How funny is that? We we we we would ask in advance like we're not that stupid
Imagine though your face being put on a meme
That was like sold on stargaze as an nft and then you're fucking in a fucking
And like you you were in a cardinal space
You didn't even know that it was happening
You're in a cardinal space with your friends
And then we raided it next thing, you know, you're in the sec lawsuit. Oh my god, he's down horrendous
However, they're getting back to abstract
To get back abstract, right dude
I've been seeing you scared
I've seen you's a bill you can tell when a project right it's starting to start to heat up a little bit
And you're like, ah, I need to be paying the fucking attention here
So dude talk to me about the rest of this year because
I I I mean are you guys like strategizing with your runway?
Because we always ask about runway, right? We'd be fucking stupid like not to
So like have you guys like I hope you fucking bought like I don't know dog with a hat or something
And he's like aped in like a fucking two mil market cap and you're like
Sitting there rich as fuck like and you're like, oh we can build for the next three years
So talk to me about your own
Professional cfo professional cfo is listening to you talk about utilizing runway like that and just like dying
The cfo fuck I couldn't know
Dudo, I mean, what about you guys? Like I I hate to see like how you're managing your money or anything
I'm not like guy, but I'm not, you know, but we are gonna ask like these kinds of questions on rock FM
Yeah, absolutely we are um, we are well capitalized uh, we did
We had like we bootstrapped abstract from the very beginning
Uh, we have a team about ape right now. Uh, we are actively hiring as you saw
and uh, we we feel that our our business model is actually relatively strong, um, especially for
Uh, you know business models in crypto. We just take uh fees off of the defi adapters and
Yeah, we uh, we put all of our funds in shibu inu and that it's just been going to the moon
Um, we've been thinking about rotating it into uh, you know newt or prop 16 or something
Uh, though we'll have to consult with our cfo for that
I would I would honestly and i'm i'm not generally one to give
Uh any sort of financial advice, but I would look into doe queen
Uh, doe queen and uh, yeah, you know anything with a hat man
Well, I I think that there's like a severe lack of cat coins out there
Like i'm not like that much of a cat's person. I do well. Do you know why that is?
What no, why because back in in 2018 or 2019
Shitcoin came out called grumpy
And they utilized grumpy cat what they didn't realize was that the owners of grumpy cat are all about that money
And when they saw that they did not get asked permission or get any of this money that grumpy token was
Generating they ceased and assisted that shit and that sent
A shockwave of terror throughout the shit coin
And now you see way less cats
Grumpy remember grumpy cat yeah, there's a yeah
Well, i'm not sure how many people fucking tuned in to hear that story
You can choke it down to experience people. I mean i'm not gonna
Catch it on a on an upcoming rec clip truss
On an upcoming jam whole experience
Uh, I mean I have to be honest dude
It's bullish as fuck what you guys are doing
So, you know, the question people are going to ask is when talking when talking?
I know. I know. I don't want to ask the question. I hate that
This is the worst question that we ever have to fucking ask, right? Is
Are you going to contract?
I don't know. You're legally bound and obligated to ask
Dude, the question is though. I mean
Are you gonna talk and eyes why would you ever do it? Like I mean, you you you know where we're coming from
Right, you're not a muggy. Well, it works
He said about the business about the business model. So maybe they don't need to uh
But they're gonna so, you know
You're right. It was bullish as fuck about the business model and the runway and the funding so like but that's the question
Isn't so how tfm are gonna talk and eyes?
Skipping gonna talk and eyes aren't that I mean doubt how we're gonna monetize soon. So go jake get your fucking up together
Like so a deer joke on his side joke on the side like
Like is it on the road map or is it just like not even a convoy in the office?
Well according to uh read write owned by mr
Dixon the only way to make a project succeed is with a token
And I mean there's there's no like misaligned incentives in him saying that, you know being an investor at a 16z or anything
I will just say that launching a token too early kills projects and so
Abstract right now is very abstract. We are completely agnostic to any chain
And we like that position. We feel like it's incredibly powerful
We're you know, it's something that we we would consider
Though there would have to be an incredibly compelling reason to do so and I do have one
Uh, so if we look at the evm ecosystem, like that has it has absolutely popped off
It has thrived for like the last like eight years
Uh, and like one of these reasons one of the reasons for this is because everyone is building towards a shared protocol
Everyone is driving value to ethereum. Everyone is like building apps
But those apps even if they have tokens, they increase the value of ethereum
And in cosmos we we make this a little bit more efficient and we drive all of the value to the applications
We drive all of the value to osmosis as a dex. We drive all of the value to
Kujira as a defi platform or to desmos as like a
Decentralized social platform, but there's when you're completely chain agnostic
There's no incentive to build applications that work on multiple different chains
No, there's like that value is not getting driven to one thing
It's just like the same problem with the grants programs
Like they don't want to give you a grant because you're not just building for that one thing
so to create that entertain alignment
A token might be a good option
It would have the mechanism for it
Must be explored. It must be experimented with
And uh, we're excited we're excited to start experimenting we're thinking about experimenting
With uh with these different app chains tokens
Like wouldn't it be fun if we made the entertain games and we had like different experiments for tokenomics running on different chains
Allowed, you know users to interact with devs to interact with apps to like drive value to these tokens and see which experiment on which chain succeeds
Because I think that would be fascinating and uh
We are we're thinking about doing so and uh, so if you guys have any crazy tokenomics ideas, like I know the dao dao people are
super experimenters and uh
Yeah, we're down to collaborate with
With them as well. So yeah
Shameless show here if you go to terrace spaces.org and type in tokenomics on the search bar
You'll find all sorts of spaces with all sorts of big brains and some even with joe on them
Uh discussing tokenomics, so I'd give you a nice list of of people to to reach out to
Your man's your man's coolest football thing, I mean like dude
You are you know what we talk in private about like fucking guests we have on and you're not who can handle themselves
Bro a day i've got to see it like coming to rack fm and just get the vibe immediately and hook up with it is so
Fucking good brought to say like it doesn't happen often
But when it does it always with like the top paper like chris armani
Do from kojira like we could go
Just that but like to roll up the the audacity and the cojones
It takes to roll up into rack fm studio by yourself
I mean not that we fucking sent a link or did our fucking job
But when you wrap up late and like it's like you just slot into the room thing, you know what i'm saying?
It does nothing fucking often, right?
Your job not not our job that that was specifically your job. So
It's it's it's quite no, no, no, this has been a great like literally, you know
I'm looking at the fucking cosmos
Like look at what is happening around like all interviews all of these from dfi or energy share like
Anything's like, you know, there's so many fucking spaces shit boring and we're like, right? Okay
How can you make infra sexy?
And a day that is what you've done and come on a night and like
We've had other interviews that haven't been that way and you can kind of tell and that's not a negative
Like we're here like we want to facilitate every type of interview
But when we get a homeboy on that's like proper straight shit like just like banging out like yeah
This is what I think blah blah blah, dude. They're the best shows
So me yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you fucking for the night man idea
Well, we'll talk some shit like after like the abstract stuff like if yeah, if you're willing
But like I just want to say personally
And like hold their own like you you couldn't
Did I just call a guest a cunt thing? Oh dear
I mean, I think that's it's in theory
I've i've georgia's already on the font elon georgia's trying to get me counseled to us like right elon
So what was this question? Did you even fucking have a question or is he just trying to like?
Just hang out with us. I would say it if georgia did have a question
It will be like proper right of fucking my iq like on the curve wouldn't it? I mean georgia. Well, hey, you've got a
Ask the racquet of questions too. Don't forget before we wrap this up
Okay, well i'm gonna ask. Okay, I want to ask
Adia do that and then I gotta I gotta jet and get this channel. Yeah, I want to I want to hear these
I do want to ask him about the stable coin conundrum
Uh, and especially in regards to like cosmos and whatever else. I mean
So we are saying some different things, uh some different ideas, uh adia, you know in regards like
You know ust was a massacalia
When I was saying like uh astromint now
This is like this would be kind of not the final question, but the one big one for you
Like where's the stable coin solution in the entire cosmos equal system?
Is it with normal? Is that where it lies or are we looking at all the solutions? What do you think personally?
Oh god, it's noble. We're all more fucked than we first saw yeah for me personally
It's oh god usk. Sorry. It's a mix between
Usk and uh silk for me personally
Wait, really? Okay, wait, this is sorry
I mean to like just steamroll right over you
But yeah, that's where i'm at. I think those two mechanisms not hanging to one
Currency button instead a basket of them. I think is this the more the way to go
Yeah a basket of them for sure
Uh, well, let's let's think about our options though. So we've got noble we've got
Um, and we also have like access our usc. I suppose
Um, but one that like no one really talks about that. I think is really important is uh
Is membrane like uh membrane cdts are actually biased cdt
Um, yeah, they allow you to to mint it like against any other token. It's based on liquidity. It's based on
um some existing protocols and it has some like
Amazing mechanisms and I know that they've uh, I think they've been really active on on twitter recently
and I feel that membrane could position itself as the
Like the entertained stablecoin because they can be chain agnostic like membrane could be the one
Neutral stablecoin that works everywhere silk is stuck on secret ist is stuck on agoric
You can only mint it on agoric the usk. You can only mint it on kujira
Wouldn't it be awesome if you could mint this stablecoin on any chain like on any cosmoism chain
And like be able to collateralize your tokens on any chain
Right where the dexes are be able to liquidate it on any chain
I think that like membrane in in terms of all of the stablecoin protocols that are available
It's the most decentralized. It's the most interoperable and it's the most interchain
Coin stablecoin that we have. Um, and uh, i'm excited to see it
More in use. I know that uh, the lead dev there tricks has been working on some like
Nice front-end ui improvements because uh people use it right now. It's uh
It's kind of like old defy
Not the most confidence inspiring, but I I know that the new version is supposed to be
Pretty fire. So that's that's my two cents on there
Um, and i'd put those two cents in cdt
And and that my friends and that my friends is why you fucking listen to raga femme
Because you get the fucking alpha from the fucking horse's mouth
Call i'm saying fin call i'm saying fin. He knows that's why that's why we do the show, bro
Is that right fin? Yeah, don't single me out on the team. I know why we do this shit
I can't believe joe tried to come in and fuck the shop if he hadn't come back as a listener
I would have been really annoyed
But the very fact it did come back as a listener. We know that it like there was no ill intent
Is that right fin? Can we clarify that as?
Zero ill intent from joel's side. Yeah. I mean I never I never tried to to uh insinuate another's
Also good guy mr. Fox also good guy. We got a room full of good guys here
Of course, he is joe's a legend and the people you shouted out. Look at that chris
Jay smiles, we've got sheldon. We've had oh we've got sca
We've got everyone in the room the malice man
The people that fucking care and want to listen. I have to say a day
This is the first time i've heard you
Holy fuck. Can you hold the room?
Bro, you can hold a room you motherfucker you class like that
But that would talk to you over a fucking couple of beers all day fucking long
Hell yeah, so when are we getting our beers? Like where are you based? Oh, uh, i'm a
I'm in Bangkok me. I'm fucking i'm hiding i'm on the run
But you know fin fin endorsed me to go on the running Bangkok. I don't know what's happening
Fuck any whip pro over here this guy
Bro, if you're in Asia though, call through Bangkok man a day a minute i'll give you the red carpet
I always do i'll take around i'm a motorbike dude. Give you a tour of Bangkok. You know what i mean?
Like a homeboy, but no no dude. I wasn't all slick in you
I want to be very clear for the audio. I mean you kind of work
No, no, no, fuck you. Fuck you. No, not like literally
There's a lot of interviews where it happens and it's fucking hard work
And then there's interviews where someone comes on. It's like oh i've known this country for 20 years
Exactly, you know what i mean saying it's the same like when you hear you and ben on the jam hall or whatever
Say yeah, man. There's there's some things we'll try and do it
tl dl on this one i think fin with the other AI because
your man gave out like ridiculous like alpha and and some shit there like i'm gonna have to go back
and intently listen to this space
until i get all the shit he does machine go like
Fin any machine gun does like
I was like, whoa, bro. Wait a minute. Yeah, I was there
No, I wasn't expecting that. I was like, holy fuck. Wait a minute. Where's my pen? Where's my notebook?
I didn't even have anything ready. I was like shitty fire and bullets here
All right, I'll ask the questions ask the questions and then I want some final thoughts and then we're gonna see it
We're done. I'm gonna say shout out abstract everyone that you probably are all the audience will be following them
Make sure you're keeping up because the guys have actually picked up their uh output
And you're now starting to see some like fruition of what they've been doing for the like, you know, the last couple of years
Attention is all we're gonna say yeah idea dude. We're gonna close out the space
Would you like any final words before we do miss?
Yeah, well, uh, you know, I just like to ask, you know the token right back to you like when rack token
um and like also put on the entertainer general would love to uh
Come on the show and this has been like whole load of fun. Like maybe we can drag our uh
Our my co-founder up here as well
I'm sure uh, he'd love to talk some shit about cosmos because this seems like the best place to do so
I do appreciate any fucking step up because we're being fucking blacklisted more than pd and fucking Epstein
Times have been tougher than rack fm. Unfortunately, uh because we speak the truth, but never mind
There's people who do know like what goes on in the fact. We're just like normal fucking people and not
Greedy fucking retarded cunts. I mean I don't want to go there. However, dude
I want to say this for me. We haven't done an interview for like nearly a month
And fin it's been a fucking absolute scream. I've been laughing me head off. It's been class joy. It can give us a thumbs down
Uh fin anything to say before we wind up this epic evening
Or evening for me. I've been telling you to say ask the questions ask them to ask the racket some questions and then strap this up, baby
All right. Okay, right. Okay
Oh my god, right a day. I now understand what's in like
He's giving me I didn't need to name a dm me like but I now understand what fin is talking about. So
Broadway have a series of questions and I do apologize for fin
Making me fucking ask these things
What's your favorite sandwich?
Oh my god, he's on a reuben fuck dude
Dude, if we just done the interview and I asked that one question and you said that we could have finished it and
We could have fucking bet the house on abstract
I mean fucking the reuben like like literally you're coming with it
That's like the sherman tank of fucking sandwiches, bro
you're not coming in the room like
Oh, well, I might have this kind of you're like brought to reuben
Like I didn't give a fuck what's going on. I want to root like not the uh
I like the the lack of hesitation too. He took a sec. He was like, yes
That's number two after the ban me on my list by the way reuben for me personally
It's number two on the list
After the ban me and a ban me because I've got yellow fever
Dude, i've got yellow. I live in bangor. I've got yellow fever. I love yellow women
I love the simpsons. Like what can I say?
I'm, sorry next question would be you don't have to answer this by the way because this is a personal one
And someday when some don't
11 and a half well, it depends on uh, whether you're whether you're talking american or uh european. I think well, yeah, we go basic
Basic sweatshop amazon. Nikes is what we go by here. You see 11 and a half or 45
You see the answer the answer is not important the reactionary time is
So that's what we go through
So finn's got like this seagull rolex like fucking what like the minute I ask the question
He kicks it up and he's 80 times it dude. You were under
Uh, three 350th of a second there. So like that's epic
Last question bro last question
Fucking depends on it. Okay, there's there's no like that's it your life depends on it
You've got to choose to wear one thing
Do you choose cowboy boots or you do you choose a cardigan?
Cowboy boots and those probably the most uh versatile I have to I have to admit though
Like i'm not sure what a cardigan is
Um, maybe like maybe i'm just being really
Dumb right now. Like are you familiar with nirvana or mr. Rogers?
Will have to look up the nirvana cardigan or oh, yeah, hell no
I I don't wear long sleeves. I'm from l.a
Like we like we are all short sleeves and shorts and happiness and this looks like the pressed
the pressed middle-aged woman
Bro, bro, you're not saying dumber and dumber. That's right. That's nirvana. There you go
Have you not seen dumber have you not seen dumber dumber he's like pull over he's like no cardigan
I'm from the normal world
I'm not from the world of horses
I mean, I don't know where you guys come from but like it's all seem to live in like sand and dust and wear cowboy boots
You know in the northern hemisphere
We like a cardigan when when you when the winter session you're like, you know, so
It went like this convo started like two years ago
I i've got to see it here
Where are we now Finn? Are we at about like seventy four and eighty percent? Uh
Yeah at yes about there and I my vote was cardigan also, but yeah
All right wrap this up. I gotta get I think I think two people love order cardigan in the entire time
We're like we've done 120 fucking spaces
We probably asked 80 people and like two have said a cardigan over cowboy
I mean I get it i'm gonna have to buy some cowboy boots just a wreck like i'm gonna have to wreck them
We are about 20 people away from having a uh
I just want to have 100 people. Yeah
I just want to ask the day one last question before we finish a day. Yeah, I hope this was not your normal chat
Boring monday and shit you have to do on the daily for your company and your organization
I hope it was like a breath of fresh air and you had some fun and enjoyed yourself. That's what I hope dude
Yeah, absolutely and i'm i'm very happy to uh to chat again talk shit
It's been it's been a while like this has been one of the most fun spaces i've been on so
Cheers to you both like this has been awesome
Are you gas bro? You fucking you can hold your own in any environment you you couldn't don't know what i'll tell you what
Can be uh, anyway, we'll end it. Uh, so thanks to cosmos jaw
Trying to new gas. I don't even know what he was trying to do there. He's trying to come in and fucking
I will spin up an unrecorded just if anyone wants to come up and grab a mic because I say like brian and that's jumping
I say mr. Fox. Jay smiles. I say sheldon chris. See you down there
If you're if you're still going when i'm done posting this
Back in but I gotta I gotta get this shit done first. No, not not you
I'm not did I mention you mentioned everyone else in the room by you like like it's always about you, isn't it?
You've always got to make it about you thing for folks here. Jesus. Anyway a day. Thank you very much
And we wish abstract, uh all the fucking best for the future bromine. We'll be catching up very soon. Yeah
Oh, yeah, you too. And uh, cheers until next time
Yeah, watch what you're doing man. Watch what you're doing. Enjoy this. Okay, take care. All right. See ya