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RAC FM Special: Forty Two Money in the Studio 🎙️🦝🚀
Recorded: Dec. 14, 2023 Duration: 1:16:49Space Recording
Full Transcription
Here we go. We've got the gang in. Better late than never, I will say.
So let's bring the speakers in immediately. Quickly make up for the missing 10 minutes.
Right, Kimmy42, I've just sent you a mic. I'll DM a couple of people and then we'll get the show, albeit fucking 10 minutes late.
We'll get the show on the road, hopefully. So guys, get the speaker invite.
Oh, I don't see it. Is this Rogan as well? Is it? Oh, here we go.
Oh, is that there? Is that Kimmy? Is it?
Yes, sir. I think Daniel will do most of the talking today, but I'm here controlling the 42 account.
Bro, I didn't expect you. First of all, please accept our apologies.
I'll explain about that in a second, but I didn't expect you actually in on that.
Oh, what's happened with Daniel? Oh, he's in.
Hello.
I didn't expect you. Hello, Daniel. Is that Daniel? Yeah. Hello, brother.
This is Daniel.
So mild, man.
See, you did the bait and switch. You did the bait and switch. I didn't expect Kimmy.
I expected Kimmy on his own account there. I thought you were coming in on the official there, Daniel.
Hey, guys, let's just say a couple of technical glitches. Let's just put it down to that and say no more and jump fucking straight in.
But, Kimmy, yeah, you're on the official account. Are you doing comms on that now or what's the story there?
Yeah, I'm just kind of been a fan of what 42's been doing. Me and Daniel started talking the other day and, you know, they're kind of approaching the same core issue I am with my projects, but from a, like, different angle.
Um, and so, you know, I offered my help with just some, like, marketing outreach, this sort of thing. Um, and, you know, yeah, we were happy to try and get this kind of stuff in front of more people.
So, um, yeah, happy to be working with them.
To me, well, bro, like, oh, it's class to me. Well, like I said to Kimmy, say, Daniel, listen to that, how we got to start talking about you, uh, was obviously the, uh, Cosmoverse, the, uh, the pitch.
I think that was, like, day three, wasn't it? Uh, well, obviously, like, you guys, amongst others, I think, were pitching, yeah, alongside Stride and stuff.
But I thought, I said to Kimmy, the first thing I said to him was, look, Kimmy, outside of, like, the major keynote speakers, I thought, I thought your pitch was fucking excellent, like, Daniel.
Really well delivered, very engaging, man. Really good stuff for Cosmoverse, man.
Thank you so much. I appreciate that. I love pitching, so you can put me on stage anytime, and, uh, I enjoy the process.
I pretty much just go there, and I'm just, like, just go be yourself on stage. So, that, that's, that's what I tell myself to, to calm the nerves.
Dude, if I'm honest with you, I've got quite a few, like, South African friends, and that, uh, quite a few of them have left Thailand and stuff now, but they're all, uh, obviously, like, they've been teachers with me and stuff, but they're all quite prominent, uh, really good, like, public speakers.
Like, I've got no fear about standing up in a, you know, in a big, big audience in front of, like, hundreds of people and just, like, being able to deliver.
Yeah, that's a good, so, dude, yeah, Timmy, Timmy, I was like, oh, the South African dude, Timmy, from Cosmoverse, he was like, eh, no, and I'm like, no, man, he's, I mean, you have got a very, very fine, very fine accent there, Daniel, but, I mean, dude, are you, are you, are you, Cape Town, Cape Town native, or what?
Where are you originally from?
Yeah, I'm trying to spread Cape Town, I bop, I bop between.
I've, I've never heard someone who I would describe as having no accent until I met Daniel.
Yeah, I say that about South Africans, I don't think, I don't know if we have an accent, I think we just speak normally.
Well, I mean, yes and no, because there are really distinct differences depending on people's heritage, and obviously, sort of, geography, so, I've got quite a few friends from, like, Durban, and they're kind of, like, from Scottish and Welsh descent,
and they kind of just have this, like, little bit of a kind of, I don't know, it's, like, almost, like, a little bit of a gentrified kind of accent, you know, a little bit, like, slow, and a little bit, like, yeah, from up north?
Yes, yes, I know the Durban accent. I'm familiar.
Daniel, do you still live down there, or have you, have you moved to crypto-friendlier places, or what?
So, actually, I was living in San Francisco for a while, and I will be moving to Portugal in the coming months, but I, weirdly enough, am in South Africa at the moment.
So, I'm here for Christmastime, seeing the family, et cetera, but, yeah, Portugal is where I will be based from, sort of, 2024.
Bro, you know, you know Portugal, you know the change in, like, the rules and regulations over there and that, so, for the new people coming in, it's a whole different story.
Thailand's where you want to be. Thailand's where you want to be.
It's crypto-friendly.
It's getting better, yeah. The new guy is, he's doing a 10,000 baht digital wallet for, like, all of the population, which is going to cost, like, such an unbelievable amount of money.
They don't even know where this money's coming from, but their Binance have just got a license here, the licensing, a couple of others.
The new government are definitely crypto-friendly, but there are a lot of other good things going here.
They've got really good, like, tech visas, like, sort of specialists, you know.
The visas, if you're decent, the visa situation here is, like, through the BOT, or the BOI, sorry, is really easy to get, really easy.
Yeah, I always say we're so lucky that there's not one global government that could just ban crypto all at once, you know.
It's like some governments try to stop it, but others are just doing their own thing.
We're pretty lucky about that.
I mean, Daniel, normally, we don't really, like, script these, like, interviews too much, so, like, we love them to come off as, like, a sort of around the campfire kind of chat with the family, you know.
Dude, just give us, just give us, like, a quick, I don't know, one or two minutes about who's Daniel, who's the dude, what's your background, what are you, like, doing your free time, like?
Like, who's the dude, where are you from, where are you from, what did you study, or, you know, how did you get to where you're on now?
You know, just give us a quick once-over so I can probably get to know you, yeah?
Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
So, I grew up in South Africa.
I studied finance and accounting, so I understand the books behind businesses.
I'm a CA, actually.
And I then, I worked in investment banking for three years and sort of felt like there was more to life than investment banking and sort of, like, what are all these people doing running around, like, in the rap race, almost, like, trying to chase these dreams and give out as much debt as possible.
I was never quite satisfied.
I then moved on to work at a fintech company for about two years, and there I did a whole bunch of things, but pretty much started a division for them and scaled that.
Moved over to London for a little while, and then I did an MBA, so I studied for a little bit in the Bay Area and worked with a couple venture capital VCs in San Francisco.
And then I worked at Binance Labs for a while, too, in the venture capital team.
So, that was sort of my first full-time role in crypto, where I was all of a sudden drinking from the fire hose, trying to find entrepreneurs to invest in, and sort of trying to make heads and tails of what it means to actually invest in crypto founders.
And sort of looked at that.
That was still in the peak of the bull market, so I realized that it doesn't look that hard, actually.
So, it's funny, because people often think crypto is the easiest way to make money, but then once you get in it, you realize it can also, when it's in a bear market, it's one of the hardest ways to make money, which is kind of funny.
But I guess that's the volatility for you.
Yeah, so then I founded 42 after leaving Binance.
So, it was sort of around almost a year and a half ago now.
I was working with an engineer as a co-founder who left the team, and we pivoted, and we've sort of been through ups and downs in the way.
But we've come out through it, so we, I think it's the sort of building through the bear market is, of course, hard, but it definitely grows you, I think, as a person and as an entrepreneur.
And there's a lot of invaluable lessons.
I'm actually super grateful we've been building through this bear market.
But, yeah, that's very much a digressing from who I am.
Otherwise, I love to surf.
I love to adventure.
I like to hustle into parties and events, especially crypto events that I wasn't necessarily invited to when I'm not on the guest list or anything.
I love just showing up and see how I can get in.
That's like one of my skill sets.
And I've done that a number of times, and I've never actually been turned away from a crypto event.
Bro, we are kindred spirits.
This is what I used to do back in the day, like in clubs like Cream and Gear Crasher and that in the paper when I lived there.
Like, dude, I used to climb up the side of a mountain to get into Pasha and that, man, like, you've got any idea the length and breadth we used to go to to get into, like, exclusive events back in the day.
If you can blag, you can blag.
Exactly.
And I, like, love the process of doing it.
Like, obviously getting into these exclusive events is amazing.
I've met some of the best people I've met in crypto through some of these events, you know, because I was just, like, pretty much a nobody entrepreneur.
I mean, obviously when I was at Binance, it was a bit easier because I got invited to all sorts of places.
But when I started, when I founded 42, I was hardly invited anywhere.
So I'd have to go hustle into the places myself, into the right rooms.
But I love the process of it, of planning out and strategizing how I get in.
Actually, I have so much fun in that process.
Well, bro, I will just say you do pass, like, the first sniff test straight away because, like, surfing, as someone who spent the best part of, like, three years trying to learn and just couldn't because I'm, like, six foot fucking four and I've got, like, zero center of gravity.
Like, dude, it's ridiculous.
Like, I know how hard those, I mean, I used to bodyboard, but I know how hard those boys go.
If anyone in the room doesn't know, I'm telling you guys, surfing is one of the most extreme sports on the body.
Like, you have to be super fucking fit, like, don't you, Daniel?
Really fit like a surf.
Yeah, it's a hard sport.
It takes, the problem is the waves are always inconsistent.
So, it takes so long to learn because you can go get in the ocean and it can be too big or too small or too messy.
Very few days, you actually get in perfect conditions, you know.
So, you, but then when, after, like, battling through a lot of shit, when it is perfect conditions, then you saw.
And I guess that's probably quite analogous to the crypto industry and building through hard times because when it's good, it's going to be way easier.
You got, you got sharks as well down there, haven't you, bro?
You've got to be careful, you've got big sharks, haven't you?
We've got some great whites.
We've got some great whites around here.
Haven't you?
You've got some beasts.
Mate, talking about bites, did you get any bites after, I mean, I haven't looked into, like, the funding side of it.
Obviously, we love to talk to people about things.
Did you get any bites after Cosmoverse?
Yeah, we've raised a bit of many.
We are still closing off the round, but we have, we definitely have got some bites, that's for sure.
And we've got some, some, some very, like, I would say, what's the word, like, principled investors, which, which I love more than anything.
Investors who are kind of thinking about crypto for the long term.
So, yeah, that's great to hear, or great to be surrounded by.
I was going to say, have you got any investors, like, with advantages, you know, where they, like, might bring a little something, or is it just cold, hard cash, like, you guys don't need anything outside of the actual physical, like, cash injection?
No, we've got, we've got sort of the full array of, of investors.
Some of them help from a technical perspective.
Some of them help with just introductions to, like, maybe whales who would support us in some way.
Yeah, a lot of them are, like, very good, like, life or business mentors, and almost are more advisors than just cold, hard cash.
At least a lot of the investors that have invested in, in us.
So, I feel very grateful with, with, with our, sort of, investor cap table.
Dude, I always pick up on people's language, and, you know, you're always using the, the plural pronouns when you're obviously talking about the team, which is totally correct.
So, that would be a perfect moment for me to, oh, he's Bruce, he might want to co-host.
That would be a perfect moment for me to kind of, like, pivot into the team.
So, Daniel, what's, like, the overview?
Because I know there might be, like, sort of part-timers or some community members, as well as, like, the hardcore back-end.
Because, you know, we always look at teams and rate them on, kind of, like, things like bloat, et cetera, you know.
How's your team at the minute?
What's the score?
Yeah, so, we've actually got a pretty amazing team at the moment.
So, I mentioned my co-founder left just over a year ago, like, while we're, sort of, pivoting into what we are now.
And during that pivot, I was the only member of 42 at the time that, sort of, stayed on.
And I'm not an engineer, so I, sort of, had my hands tied to a large degree.
But at Cosmoverse last year in 2022 in Medellin, I went to the conference and pretty much spent the whole conference trying to recruit a hackathon team that could help build 42 into its next phase.
And I managed to recruit one of our teammates, named Luisio, who was on my hackathon team.
And he's incredible.
And he joined the team full-time directly after the hackathon.
And he, funnily enough, actually, he's from Argentina.
And he won some sort of a competition where Cosmoverse paid for his tickets to go to Medellin.
So, it was, like, it was completely this full circle when we won the pitch event this year at Cosmoverse.
Because he was there.
And he told the organizers that he actually won their free ticket to Cosmoverse last year.
And they flew him to Cosmoverse.
And now he won the pitch event a year later.
But, yeah.
So, yeah.
That's insane.
That's insane.
That's crazy.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, it's crazy.
So, yeah.
Elisio is, sort of, our CTO and technical product manager.
And then a guy named Moritz, who won the hackathon in Medellin.
So, we recruited him directly after the hackathon.
So, Elisio and I didn't win the hackathon.
Moritz's team did win.
And we recruited Moritz off that team directly afterwards.
So, we, sort of, have been the three core members that have been together for over a year now, since Medellin.
And we've recruited two other front-end engineers who've joined the team recently.
So, obviously, 42 is very much a front-end-focused play.
So, front-end engineers are super important for us.
So, we've found two amazing front-end engineers who are also building.
And that's the core team.
And then, obviously, we have some part-time contributors, such as Timmy, who's been helping us from a marketing perspective.
And, yeah, that's pretty much the core members.
I like that.
I like that.
That's a well-fucking-balanced team.
That's no bloat, like, for what you guys are aiming for, you know.
So, dude, yeah, you, I mean, obviously, you're talking about the successes of Cosmoverse.
I mean, you must be very encouraged by, like, what you've seen in the last few months.
And, yeah, and people like Timmy wanting to be involved and, you know, you seem to be getting a bit of traction, Daniel, at the minute, right?
Yeah, that's what it seems like.
I mean, it's still, obviously, super early.
But it's interesting to also see, like, how people are thinking about Cosmoverse in general.
Like, I've obviously, I've been trying to raise money for this for quite a while.
And a lot of investors sort of along the way were like, why are you building in Cosmoverse?
There's no TVL in Cosmoverse, there's no TVL.
And, like, I heard this over and over again.
I'm like, I know there's no TVL in Cosmoverse.
I'm the one building there, you know.
But just recently, the other day, I mentioned to someone, yeah, at some point we would like to, obviously, we're building an inter-chain app.
So, at some point, we obviously went to incorporate Ethereum.
And they were sort of like, actually, I'll just double down on Cosmoverse.
And, funnily enough, since then, we've been hearing more and more of this from investors who all of a sudden are starting to, I think, see that potentially in the next bull market, Cosmoverse may come up strong.
And, yeah, obviously, Ethereum is pretty saturated, block space constrained.
There's a lot of L2 activity, I think.
But there's a lot of sort of criticism around the decentralization of that.
So, hopefully, Cosmoverse is the one to follow.
And, I mean, you look at Solana and the benefits of Solana being, like, high speed, high efficiency, et cetera.
But any Cosmoverse app chain could theoretically replicate Solana, too, plus more.
And I think we're seeing sort of that stuff with, for example, Injective.
So, yeah, I think, hopefully, the fact that we took a bet on Cosmoverse over the last year and a half does come to fruition in sort of the coming few months.
It's just from a lot of people.
I've heard it's just a really, really, like, pleasurable, like, when you put all the bullshit and the politics and stuff aside, it's a very, very pleasurable, like, place to build.
And people say, hey, I believe we might have Timmy back.
Is that right, Timmy?
Do we have you back or what?
Yeah.
Yep.
I think I was only gone for a moment.
I've seen those.
I thought you might have got a call or something, yeah?
No, just beautiful.
So, Timmy, I mean.
Oh, it's been terrible.
Absolutely terrible.
Timmy, what attracted you into 42?
What kind of set the wheels in motion with that, then?
Personally, like, I'm, as you know, have, like, a slightly different, I was about to say perspective, but rather things in crypto that appeal to me are a bit different than the average person just because I've been in crypto so long.
I've seen a million dog talk.
Yeah, you're a big front-end guy, you.
You're a big front-end guy.
You're a big, like, you know, in-depth guy.
I'm a missing piece guy, right?
And I think the front-end is still a missing piece.
There are some beautiful, cool front-ends out there, but still nothing that aggregates and makes things easy, especially for, like, a new user or your average, you know.
Let me get my mom into crypto beyond having a Coinbase account.
Like, where do you even have her start?
And I just kind of saw what 42 was doing.
I actually forget how Daniel and I got, you know, specifically talking in the first place, but was just, like, a big fan of someone, like I said, similar to the high-level mindset we have for Interchain Info, just in that crypto has an amazing foundation, but it needs more surface-level tools to let the average user access that foundation.
Mic drop.
Mic drop.
I don't know.
No, no, I didn't know.
No, I didn't know what you were saying.
Yeah, I didn't know.
So, yeah, that's sort of the main crux of it, is, like, I'm a huge fan of these projects that are just doing something a little different and thinking about the end-user experience.
So, it's a complete, like, aggregator right across the board of kind of, like, everything, right?
Daniel?
Yeah, Daniel, do you want to maybe give a quick high-level overview for listeners and such?
Yeah, I want to know, like, say, like, are they leveraging, like, say, a TFM on the back-end or, you know, like, obviously there's different, obviously that's what kind of, like, a lot of these kind of similar projects, I'm not going to say exact same projects, but similar, can kind of leverage other tech and build it into their back-end.
So, Daniel, yeah, what are you doing, Mia?
Yes, I think on a high level, we're really just trying to make asset management easy across the interchain.
So, there are a number of different asset management type protocols or strategies where users can put their assets.
And we're finding that users find it difficult to actually navigate the interchain strategies and to see where the best places to put their assets are.
So, we're essentially aggregating a variety of those different protocols.
Now, when I say asset management protocols, that could be, or strategies, that could be something simple like depositing into a liquidity pool on osmosis where you would just get a straight-up return on your assets.
Or it could be depositing into something like Quasar or Sommelier where they're actually more actively managing your assets.
And we're just pretty much consolidating all of these different places where users can get a return into one UX and trying to just be this hub for any user depositing their assets anywhere.
Anyway, we're obviously looking at a bunch of AI type of assistance stuff where you could say to the AI agent, what is the, like, I want to diversify 50 Atom, what is the best way to do this to earn the highest return kind of thing?
And it will, based on your individual preferences, will start showing you the best place to deposit it.
And then you could click confirm and it will just do it for you.
That's the, I'd say, medium to long-run vision.
I mean, I think in the long run, actually, AI will be managing your assets for you.
Yeah, probably completely in the long run.
But I think before that is at least recommending for the user what to do.
In terms of what we're using in the back end, currently, we obviously, we've developed a sort of, we've rolled out a sort of very early alpha product, which I guess is like an MVP to some degree.
But we've got a beta coming out hopefully soon.
We're just dealing with one last Wallet Connect issue at the moment that we're trying to iron out.
But based on this sort of early product, which is, it's still like nowhere near where we want it to be, but it is a step in the right direction.
And we're leveraging quite a few infrastructure providers who help us with routing the tokens to the right strategies.
Specifically on the DEX aggregation side, I know you mentioned TFM.
We haven't, at the moment, integrated with TFM.
We're currently integrated only with Skip.
But obviously, we would be open to speaking with a variety of different protocols and sort of seeing where the best way to token.
They'd be all over you.
They'd be, oh, Rebel DeFi.
Just drop Rebel DeFi, a quick DM.
We'll set up an introduction.
We have spoken with them, actually, and we are in communication with them.
The only problem is we're trying to get this basic product launch, and we're putting out so many fires on that.
It's a matter of where do we put our resources or our time at the moment.
But yeah, TFM is definitely on our short-term integrations pipeline.
But yeah, right now, it's like, how do we get the most basic product out that adds value to users?
So yeah, I mean, there's also, obviously, Squid Root, which is, they're a super good team and a great project.
They're leveraging Axelar.
So there are a number of teams out there, and it's really about, like, how do we prioritize which infrastructure providers to actually integrate with?
I mean, in an ideal world, we sort of aggregate, we sort of aggregate across them and find the best, whoever offers us the best prices for a specific trade is who we would settle the transaction with.
So Daniel, it sounded there like it's a build-as-you-go kind of project, right?
So you said, like, you're pushing to get this first project out, you're writing out everything, right?
So it's an incremental thing, right, with you guys, yeah?
I was going to say, like, so far, though, as a team, I mean, you mentioned the bear market and that.
Like, as an entity, the whole thing, what's predominantly been, like, your biggest challenges so far, did you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hmm.
I mean, that could be, like, inflection team action.
This could be, like, you know, a wider stuff with Cosmos.
It could be anything from the whole entity, you know?
I know, I'm, like, I'm trying to think of the biggest challenge because there have been so many big challenges.
Like, the whole process of starting a startup is just one big challenge with broken up into challenges.
But...
Daniel, quickly, while you're thinking about your biggest challenge, like, dude, this is what I thought about earlier.
So in a startup, I was involved in a startup when I was really young, early 20s, and the amount of pressure to perform in the office, like, 8 or 8, 8 or 9, sometimes, getting home at 10 p.m. at night, the pressure to perform and bringing the numbers and bringing the cash was really ridiculous just to keep roofs over our heads and keep the office going.
Like, people didn't understand, Daniel, like, and you're involved in something like your own business and your own startup, right, or that you founded with others.
It's really stressful, isn't it?
Yeah, it is stressful.
So, yeah, that's, I think, also leads on, like, just all the challenges.
There are just so many.
But I feel like I've definitely gotten better at managing the stress.
I, like, I try not to take things as seriously as I used to.
Like, for example, you get so many no's from investors, you know?
And in the beginning, it was like, oh, an investor said no, and, like, I was really, like, hoping they would invest.
Now, I literally just brush the no's under my, like, I just brush them away and continue.
And so often, I'm just like, okay, this is the new challenge of the day, but we'll get through it kind of thing.
And that's kind of my approach.
I don't get, like, bogged down as much anymore by sort of roadblocks that present themselves.
At the end of the day, we're...
Do they ever give you reasons?
Sorry, mate, I didn't interject.
Do they ever give you reasons to base these when you're saying, like, obviously you're getting rejected?
Do they ever, like, actually give you, like, formal reasons, like proper explanations and playback or what?
Yeah, they do.
They do.
A lot of them would, like, say no based on the fact that we're building on Cosmos.
And that's actually probably been one of the hardest things is choosing to build on Cosmos.
Because there's just, like, so few investors that want to invest in Cosmos.
Or there historically has been.
And that's probably, I would say, been one of my biggest challenges is, like, trying to convince people to actually put money into the Cosmos ecosystem.
Yeah, I would say.
And, yeah, I would say that's been a huge challenge.
But also...
Go on, sorry, Matt, sorry.
I guess the thing is, it's, like, that they give you reasons.
And there's so many, like, VCs give you a reason why they're not investing.
But you speak to a lot of entrepreneurs who do have successful companies and how many no's they got along the way.
And it's just, like, VCs, obviously, I don't want to say...
I mean, a lot of them just kind of follow the trends of what other VCs do.
A lot of them don't think for themselves.
Some of them do think for themselves.
But as an entrepreneur, you kind of just got to have conviction in your own abilities and your own, like, outlook.
And go with that and brush the nose away.
Take what you want into account, but continue.
Wow.
Daniel, there's something I'm really...
So we have got Bruce here.
Bruce, get your mute on a second.
And we'll have to welcome you.
But I've got something I'm so intrigued about, Daniel.
And at Rack FM, you can be very open and honest, dude.
We are the most honest show on the airwaves.
So, and nobody will think bad or whatever, like, Daniel.
But, like, do you think you would build, like, let's say, and in your back of your mind, do you have, like, acquisition or merger and acquisition in your mind, like, for the future?
So I'll give you an example.
Obviously, we've just seen Pulsar, Pulsar Finance, got acquired by TFL.
So you've probably saw the news, Daniel.
But in the back of your mind, or are you just, like, totally confident about just building this to where you want it to be?
There's no, like, acquisition or merger in your mind?
Or are you open to it in the future?
I don't know.
It's an interesting question.
I think right now, it's just, like, focus on making the interchain easy.
At some point, if it makes sense, if it makes sense to our users, and if it makes sense to us as a company, I think we would probably be open to it.
But obviously, that all depends on the facts and circumstances at the time.
Right now, it's just, like, let's add value to our users and continue doing what's best to, sort of, progress crypto to be main dream.
Bloody good answer, mate.
Yeah, you sound like the guy that's just so, like, embedded in making this dream come true.
Like, this is what I would say on Shark Tank and stuff, don't know, man, it's always about the people behind the project.
Bruce, Bruce, good afternoon, sir, or good early evening to you, whatever it is.
Good evening.
Good evening.
This is a lively space, huh?
All right.
Dude, are you communicating from 1943 again, are you?
God damn it.
Give me a second.
Right now, 1940.
Sorry, bro.
That's okay.
It's okay.
Sorry, Daniel.
Is this better?
It is.
What did you do there?
You're queuing it straight away.
What did you do?
Do that all the time.
I have faulty wires in my life.
Loose connections and faulty wires all over.
Are you talking about your phone or your brain?
You mean you have 42 wires, right?
Exactly.
42, 40 wires.
No, but please don't let me disturb, man.
I'm just listening.
No, no.
I thought you might have any questions, because I know you're all about security, security,
security, and everything, and you always come in with some question.
But have you been enjoying the space so far, thus far?
Absolutely.
I just arrived home from work.
A very long day today, so I was very happy to see there was some ear candy for me to listen
into, so yeah, I'm just happy.
Happy and tired.
Yeah, a long day for me, too.
It seems like with this market up at the end of the year, everyone's just all of a sudden
pushing.
I think everyone was kind of getting ready for Christmas, and then had to all of a sudden
switch into work mode all of a sudden.
People will be selling bad kids, aren't they, for Christmas presents right now, when I tell
you those bad kids are going mental, aren't they?
Jesus, what, are they like two grand or something now?
They're like one F or something, aren't they?
But why?
But why?
Tell me about the utility.
Well, it's a ticket, isn't it?
It's a ticket to the special group, you know, the special elite group, right, that we don't
want to be in.
So, yeah.
Anyway, Bruce, yeah, you've got no direct questions or an offer, Daniel or Timmy?
Wait, Bruce, have you ever bought a meme coin of any kind?
Oh, yeah, I've made money.
Oh, loads.
I bought loads of meme coins, mate.
They don't need utility.
I still can't wrap my head around it either, but it's how this market works.
Timmy just doubles down.
Every time Timmy sees a meme coin pump and he just, like, doubles down on Link, and he's
proved right every fucking time, isn't he?
I'll tell you what, though.
Did he's all here, Daniel, at the beginning of the interview when he said, like, thanks
fuck, we've, like, been building, like, during this bear and stuff like that.
Like, and I always write down, like, questions.
I've got a certain point, right, when I hear somebody, like, mentioning something.
So, Daniel, first of all, were there any points in this whole journey where you just wanted
to give up, right, especially how brutal the bear was recently?
Is there any time, like, you, like, wanted to give up?
And, like, what was probably, like, your worst, like, bear experience?
I mean, did you get caught in FTX?
Did you get caught in Luna?
Did you have any, like, rate?
Or were you pretty safe?
Were you cushy and stable or what?
Yeah, I think, uh, were there times I wanted to give up?
Um, yeah, there were definitely some hard times where I was, like, I think, yeah, I think
around the time of the terror crash, et cetera, um, that was probably, that was really hard
where I was, like, what am I doing in this industry?
Like, are we doing good for the world?
I think, I think that, that was a lot of, a lot of the stuff, like, is this, is this
actually going to be good?
Um, also, like, DeFi is obviously a crazy industry in itself, like, a lot of regulatory
uncertainty.
And I was just, like, there were times where I just thought, why are we, like, why am I
putting myself through the strain for what kind of thing?
Um, yeah, there were definitely some, some times when I thought about giving up,
giving up, but just continued on.
Uh, I also, I think I had a, I think I had, like, some sort of a turning point around,
like, um, probably around March this year, where, uh, I actually just started, like, seeing
how much fun I was having and how much I love being in crypto.
And, and I think, like, I think that, that, that March was a huge turning point for me.
And it was, that it was just after March that, like, a lot of, like, almost around the
same time that my mental attitude changed to what I'm doing and, like, just actually
embracing the process for what it is and not being as outcome-focused necessarily.
That was around the same time our product started coming together.
Uh, we started getting some interest in, to, to, uh, in our investment round.
Then, obviously, uh, we won, we won the, uh, before we won the Cosmoverse pitch event this
year, we actually won the Gateway to Cosmos event in Prague, which was in about May.
Um, and then we managed to raise funds soon after that.
So, it was, like, sort of all in line with, like, this mental shift that I had in March
that, like, all of a sudden things started, like, just really picking up and jelling.
Um, the team just started jelling better and we, we just started, like, really, really
forming much better.
Dude, you don't have to give us names.
I don't know, but, uh, have you got any, like, uh, major L1 Cosmos founders?
You know how I'm talking about the, the Sunnies, the, the Greggs.
Have you got any major, you don't have to, like, mention names, but have you got any major,
uh, Cosmos L1, uh, uh, investors?
Or not?
We do, we do have one.
Are you one?
Ooh!
Yeah.
Ooh, I, actually, we should do the yes or no games, shouldn't we?
We should do the yes or no game until we figure out who we do.
I'm only joking.
I don't, he's not, uh, uh, I wouldn't say he's, like, one of the core, core ones, but
he's definitely, he's there.
He's, he's, he's in the realm.
So, potentially not even a cartel member.
A robo.
Yeah.
Potentially.
I wonder.
But he is, uh, he does head up, he does head up his own chain.
Oh, I'm so, I'm, I'm like, I'm, I'm rubbing my chin.
You know, when you rub your chin, when you're pondering, you're thinking, okay, okay, okay.
Eh, Daniel, what kind of person are you?
Like, cause it's good, correct listening.
And it's, it's great.
Honestly, you're better off finding out about the people behind the project.
I mean, do you do a lot of like days and stuff?
Do you do a lot of like day five?
Do you flip it?
Are you clicking NFTs?
Do you flip NFTs?
Are you, what about you?
Yeah.
Cause I know devs from my experience come from a lot of different ilk.
There's devs that like, you know, don't touch trading.
I mean, what about yourself, Daniel?
How do you play the crypto game?
Yeah, I do.
I do, I do, I dabble in quite a lot of DeFi.
I wouldn't say I'm the biggest, hardest DeFi degen.
And funnily enough, since I've been founding 42, it's been even less so because I just like
don't necessarily have the capacity to, I mean, I do get involved with new projects,
like kind of test them out more than to like, like ape into things.
But yeah, I've owned some NFTs that I personally like, like I don't, never been like a big buy
sell trade, but like if I, if I, I look at NFTs like, like artworks in a way and, and pretty
much the advice I heard early on in NFTs is just like buy stuff that you like personally.
And that's, that's sort of the, the approach that I've got in that realm.
So, so yeah, I mean, I like to experiment.
I like to see what's sort of coming in, in DeFi, but, um, I'm not like a hardcore DeGEN
always like going for the max yields.
Uh, I'm a, I'm a fan of, of playing around for airdrops also.
I'm a, I like a good airdrop farm.
So yeah.
Well, we all have a good airdrop, don't we?
We do.
Go on, Bruce.
The airdrop is still doing me favors.
Mm-hmm.
That's nice.
I just want to know how Dave, he eats his sandwich.
One second.
Have you seen what's happening though?
Well, fuck.
Kujira is going for a metal injective protocol.
I mean, it's got injections, hasn't it?
It's fucking Jesus Christ.
And we're seeing some bumps right now.
Dave Byman.
Dave Byman.
Neutron as well.
Oh, there's ridiculous money to be made here.
Even, have you seen their DVPN?
Actually, I'll tell you what, DVPN, you know, even back to get back to one cent, it's like
nearly a, what, eight or nine X from here.
DVPN's up like a, nearly a 10 X on its all time low.
Wow.
I'm only, I'm only bragging because I've got like half a mil sitting there.
I did sell the top, like, I did sell the top and I bought a shitload, but like I bought
300 grand at the bottom or something.
But there's a few cheeky Cosmos coins that people should, you saw what happened with Huawei?
There's real gains.
Like, I looked at our treasury the other day and I was like, fucking hell, Bruce.
Finn, look at the treasury.
Like, Huawei, like, I don't know, whatever it is, two and a half million or something.
Like, fucking 3X or something.
We should have sold the top anyway.
But yeah, man, great.
So, Daniel.
Sorry, Huawei did like 200%, 200% pump in like two months, right?
All right, dude, have you seen DVPN since the show?
Bro, if you go and chart, absolutely, sure, for DVPN, it's unbelievable.
So, like, 250% on the show.
Damn, Daniel.
Why don't we have a token?
We could have Robo pumping it.
Well, that's what I was going to ask.
All right, tokenization.
So, we've just seen Levana tokenize.
I think we're going to see some other, like, auxiliary projects, we could say.
Do you know what I mean, Daniel?
Like, I would say it's like an auxiliary kind of project as opposed to, like, a core like L1 or even an L2.
So, you know what I mean?
Obviously, like, that, et cetera.
But yeah, how do we see this going?
Like, how do we see this pan out?
I mean, it's definitely something we're considering.
So, right now, it's really focused on just getting the product out and getting something that users like.
And hopefully bringing, like, a token out that adds utility to users.
So, yeah, I mean, we are definitely being considered actively, especially going into the new year with all the current stuff happening.
But, yeah, more information on that will come out soon.
Dude, if you could give us your top three projects right now, looking at the Cosmos Eagle, we're saying, we've just mentioned a few there.
Like, what are you really, like, excited about?
And that then gives you, like, inspiration for what you're doing in the background.
Like, what are the things that you're looking at going, yeah, fuck, I've built in the right place.
And I shouldn't have went over there to take that investment, you know, from the people who didn't want to invest in Cosmos.
I mean, what is giving you that, like, drive and determination?
You must be getting it from other things than just your project, right?
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, obviously, like, I know this is maybe a boring answer, but I love what Cosmos is doing in terms of being this sort of, like, liquidity hub and sort of how they're positioning themselves.
And they've obviously had some good stuff happening on their token too recently.
But I think they're just, like, an amazing executing team that's giving users what they want.
What other projects?
Obviously, I think there's still a lot to be seen from Injective in terms of just, like, usage and adoption besides for their token.
But I do really like them as a project.
And I love Kajira.
I think the Kajira team is amazing.
I think they ship good stuff.
Obviously, they're a closed source, which is somewhat controversial in the industry.
But I think the team is obviously South Africa and their founding team.
And I get on really well with them.
In terms of specific projects, I haven't been, like, too dialed in to a lot of the projects.
Obviously, founding the company is pretty full-time.
I'm trying to think what I'm super excited about in terms of, like, not chains but actual apps.
I mean, obviously, Levana is great.
But I know I'm saying all the sort of mainstream ones, which is, I guess, where I focus my time and energy these days.
Dude, you bang on the money.
That's how we're all thinking.
But you mentioned, I mean, I'm going to have to ask you.
You're on your personal account, and we always rate personal opinions over corporate opinions.
Like, actually, Timmy's on the corporate account, right?
The closed source versus open source.
Because, I mean, you're a raccoon dot bet.
Our contractor, obviously, closed source, blah, blah.
How do you feel, like, morally, ethically, and, like, professionally?
Because, like, I sometimes know that those, the first two sometimes don't agree with the third one, right?
Like, what's your, like, not the company man, like, Daniel's, like, real opinion about that argument?
I'm trying to think.
I don't know.
I guess it's, let me think about that question.
I think...
So, just to give you an idea, just to give you an idea, like, our devs say, hey, peer to clear,
do you want to put and say the code, come and invest in the thing?
Because we've built this project from nothing.
Why should we give you our secret sauce for free?
That's what our devs say anyway.
Yeah.
So, that is the thing.
And, I mean, we're obviously also closed for now.
Like, I think, I think at the end of the day, projects need to...
Yeah.
If you're giving away your secret sauce too quickly, at least, you're giving away your sort of competitive edge.
And it's another obstacle for you to climb as a startup.
You know, it's like there's already so many obstacles.
I don't really know why you would need to create extra obstacles.
And I guess that should be way off with the benefits of or the obstacles by not being open source.
Because, obviously, that's frowned upon.
And, potentially, you get less community or less traction because you're closed source.
So, I guess, really, at the end of the day, it's an individual perspective of what you think.
And if you morally want your project to succeed because you think it can add significant value to users or to society or whatever it is,
then you want to act in the most strategic way for you to achieve that goal.
And, I guess, that is probably project-specific into what creates the least obstacles, being closed source or being open source.
I don't know.
I guess that was a very diplomatic answer to your question.
But, it's kind of how I think about it, is that it should be looked at on an individual basis.
Oh, dude, we love it.
This is the place to come and talk about this shit, man.
Dude, everybody's answers are probably always appreciated over here, man.
It's the platform.
Bruce, what were you talking about there?
Sandwiches.
Were you going to ask Daniel some of the questions?
Bro, I just wanted to know if you went through the three mandatory questions.
No, I didn't.
Bro, you have to do it.
We were late.
We had technical problems.
We were very, very late.
So, for once, in my life, I'm going to hand this over to you for these three questions for Daniel.
Then, we're going to ask Timmy, because I presume Daniel's probably busy, and he's probably going to shoot soon.
But, we'll ask Timmy if he wants to bring anything up on the official side of things.
Bruce, what's the three questions?
So, first, guys, I do have to go now, unfortunately.
Do you have to go now?
Have you got to jump, Daniel?
No problem.
No problem, dude, if you've got to jump.
We totally understand.
It's no worries, man.
I can hang around for a few minutes and attempt any questions you guys might have, but I don't mind.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cool.
All right, well, we can let you go, Daniel.
I know it's the top of the hour.
You've got stuff to hop to.
Yeah, very, very quickly, Daniel.
Very, very quickly, it's been an honor and a pleasure.
You're a gentleman and a scholar.
Please come back any time after you're – let's do some product launch shit after the stuff's all out there.
Yeah, come back any time, Brother Rocky.
Definitely.
Yeah, so we are pushing some stuff out, hopefully next week.
And we will – I'd love to be on the show again at some point once we do have some more product out to talk a lot.
I'll tell them about –
Mate, and drop in – yeah, yeah, but drop in as a friendly listener when we have the unrecorded.
If you're bored and you're busy working or something, just feel free to drop in any time and say hello.
We have unrecorded shit all the time, you know.
I don't know why, but sometimes if you need a slight distraction on the side while working, these RACFM spaces are perfect.
I'll just half listen on the side a ton of the time, and it somehow helps productivity.
But anyways, you've got to run.
All right, you guys.
We'll see you later.
Thanks for the show.
Have a good one, man.
Take care, brother.
I'll quickly shout out to Dan.
Yeah, it's been neat.
Yeah, I'll quickly – I'll share to the speaker.
I think the number one, like, action item Daniel would want me to get across is we are getting, like, close to launch.
We'll probably be early Q1 of next year, probably, like, maybe even January.
I say we.
I'm really just helping as sort of an advisor and, like, part-time position, but I love what they're doing.
So there is a wait list that you can sign up for, apply to, and get early access to not just the initial launch here, but also, like, future updates, beta versions, that sort of thing.
So pinned it to the top there.
That's probably the number one action item you can dive into at the moment.
The thing that's really important, and I say we're getting new speakers.
The thing that's really important to understand, right, guys, is you've got fragmentation now, right, within the – they're great at IBC.
No one can really imagine what the fragmentation is going to be like when there's 1,000 chains.
We're just hitting 100 connected chains now.
So true.
Stop.
Dude, it's ridiculous.
People are not even thinking about the next five years.
People already – us in crypto – I know that specifically, like, you, I, Bruce, we talk about this, so we're aware.
But in general, people in our position who have been here through the bear, who are deep into crypto, you lose perspective on just how daunting and complicated all this stuff is.
Like, the number one barrier that seems to pop up of people attempting to overcome when learning crypto is just, like, understanding wallets.
And that's a problem that exists because of the multi-chain problem, right?
Like, oh, so, wait, this MetaMask thing I've heard about all the time shouldn't really use it for Cosmos.
And then even just the concept of your funds not living in your wallet but on chain and different wallets being a way to access it.
All this stuff is not intuitive.
And the inner chain –
Exactly.
Yeah.
Like, we can use – but the thing is, we, who's been here from dear dot, from the start of this whole thing, you know, the beginning of it, we can use Sonar, we can use Leap, and then we can use Station Wallet, right?
We can cross those, like, egos, right?
We can use Sonar to do shit, we can be in ghost with some other shit, right?
Then we can be moving shit through TFM over with Leap, we can be getting stuff on Station, blah, blah.
How the fuck would anyone coming in?
I've tried to onboard people, clever people, and they're like, it's too difficult.
And the most complete wallet I've found in terms of support for the most DApps and chains needs a lot of work on the UX side, and that's XDeFi.
So, XDeFi works for most Cosmos things, most EVMs, Solana, like, it's really well-rounded in that capacity.
But it's not something a new user can come into and just start using.
It's a little complicated, like, where to find your various addresses or switch between networks.
It's clearly a power user tool, and so what we need is something that's, you know, wide-ranging like that, that you can use for a number of different ecosystems, but has the simplicity of...
I mean, I'm going to be honest, I haven't explored a ton of wallets in the past couple years, but I remember there was this little trend back in, like, 2017-18 of wallets that were going for this minimalist, simplistic feel.
Like, I remember one called Bread that was pretty cool.
It had a token BRD, something like that, but with broad-ranging support, so you don't need to have five different ones installed.
That being said, actually, because Finn and CoinLandingPage jumped up, and also Robo and Bruce want your opinions,
we at ICI are actually probably going to run a poll about this here soon, and I've also been talking with Daniel about it.
Two-part question, I guess, for everyone on stage here.
What is your personal favorite wallet?
And then two, what do you kind of consider, like, the wallet of the inner chain?
Like, is it still Kepler?
Has that been dethroned?
Is it...
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I'll answer, I'll answer for you now.
Leap, listen to me.
The word on the street, everyone I speak to, everyone I know, every flipper, every NFT deision,
every defi deision, Leap, Leap, Leap on multiple devices.
At the minute, there's nothing that can touch Leap in this fucking entire eco industry as of today,
and I'll debate anybody about this, like, anybody.
Mobile, the...
I've got to say, their desktop...
I kind of agree, but trying to be neutral here, give me two or three sentences.
What is it about Leap that stands out to you?
Listen, I'll tell you, it's the wallet that leaps for the thing I'm trying to do.
And if that happens to be station, then cool.
If that happens to be Leap, then cool.
If that happens to be Kepler, well, not as cool, but whatever.
This shit works.
I think it's nice having our shit siloed in these little things,
because if all your shit was in one wallet, you'd lose your money instantly,
because we can't help not click on dumb fuck shit, because we need that airdrop.
And so, for me, it's whatever wallet that works.
And if it's Leap because Stater got paid a bunch of bank and spun up a bunch of devs
to spin up a wallet that works, well, you know, not great, but so be it.
Until someone else does it better, I mean, that's what we're stuck with.
I'll make it even shorter.
Fast and communicative devs.
Is that your answer for why Leap stands out?
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah.
Gotcha.
Cool.
Cool.
I think...
Can I second that, though?
I've heard from multiple devs how good the Leap team are, mind.
How responsive, how, like, I'm talking, like, within, like, an hour.
They've got the best customer service out there, mind to me.
Also, they have, like, sorry, Leap also has this nice feature
where they don't demand 250k from the project.
On the other side of the...
They also have this other really nice feature.
Listen, they have this other really nice feature called ads in your wallet.
So, you know, there's a give and take there.
You know, it is funny, though.
I think Kepler had to stop doing that.
Otherwise, they weren't going to be allowed on the Apple and Android app stores.
The whole charging for listing inside, it somehow is breaking their terms of service.
I think, I think.
All right.
But, okay, awesome.
You get a bad kid, you're in.
So, quick question to...
Have any of you guys explored...
Timmy, can I just give a caveat for the entire convo?
So, devs who spend too much time in front of fucking screens don't understand the importance
and power of mobile.
Leap understood that impeccably.
Yeah, the desktop app is great.
It does what it says on the tin.
But the mobile app is light years ahead of anybody else.
And I'll tell you why I switched to Leap, shall I?
So, I used Cosmo Station and Kepler, right?
And I hadn't made the switch.
You know why I did?
Because Wind Dex, the only mobile app that would work was Leap.
The wallet connector didn't fucking work anywhere else, right?
On the mobile app.
So, Ambedo's like, oh, no, bro, just download Leap.
It works fine on there.
And I'm like, all right, okay, whatever that.
You know, when I wake up in the morning, sit in the garden, manage me...
People really underestimate and underappreciate the fucking importance of mobile.
People should be mobile first in this day and age, man.
Honestly.
I hate...
I completely agree.
I fucking hate it.
It's going to be funny asking...
But, dude, the door in Africa, the door in India, the door in fucking China, where they
can't afford laptops.
No one cares about you.
I can't even have a laptop either.
I have, like, this big-ass fucking desktop, man.
What you talking about?
Okay, so...
This is going to be kind of funny to ask following up that, because they don't even have a mobile
wallet.
But I'm curious if any of you guys use XdeFi and what you think of them.
If so, or maybe...
I was in there.
I was in there fucking test.
Yeah, I was in there.
Like, when you...
Sorry, not the test, but when you had to fucking subscribe.
Yeah.
It's still on me, or the old laptop.
I'd never got away with it.
Okay.
In the beginning...
Shilling it?
That was enough for me to not use it, ever.
Wait, say the first part there, Finn.
What was enough?
Sorry, I saw the wrecked gang shilling it and doing competition.
I was like, yeah, I don't need a wallet like that, thanks.
I'll tell you what.
The only reason it's on my radar and one of my favorites is because I use ThorChain a ton,
and rather than having it connect multiple wallets to it, I connect XdeFi, and suddenly
my Avalanche, Cosmos, Ethereum, all that is, like, connected.
And ThorChain itself.
There's not many wallets that support it.
It was the only proper wallet you could use, though, with ThorChain originally, right?
It was the only proper wallet.
Yeah, so your other option, let's say you...
No, no, before the native wallet, before the native wallet, it was the very, very, very
first wallet.
I think...
Did Trust Wallet support native room?
Not at first.
I don't think so.
It supported BEP20 or, sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah, BEP20 or BEP2 or whatever.
Can you remember back in the early, early days?
Yeah.
The thing with ThorChain is what it lets you do for a while now is, let's say you wanted
to swap from Ethereum to Atom, you could connect both your MetaMask and your Kepler wallet to
the same browser session at the same time.
But that requires you to have both those wallets.
It's also just more prone to issues and weird connections.
So what XdeFi was kind of first to is connect one wallet, access fundamentally different types
of chains, like not just EVMs.
But XdeFi has a long way to go UX-wise, so I just wanted to pick your brains on these
wallet questions, because both for us at ICI...
Am I the only ones that are waiting for Taboo?
Yeah, I was going to say, well, actually, I could give a little update on Taboo.
It's interesting.
So obviously, it was an UMI project.
Its funding got pulled.
But they let the project lead, my, like, former boss who I was working with there, keep
the IP, branding, code, etc.
And I talked with him recently, and it has been pretty much completely rebuilt from the
ground up even better.
I don't know what the next step is, though I will be kept in the loop.
But if that work has been done, I assume it is because there is a plan in mind to do something
with it.
So there might be a new great wallet in the interchain here soon.
That, you know, the original Taboo vision was kind of more than a wallet.
It's like, obviously a wallet in that it manages seed phrases, and it's your core place to store
stuff.
But it also has tightly integrated functions like DeFi and NFTs that aren't just...
You know, do you know which wallet?
Do you know which wallet's going to win?
Do you know which wallet will win the interchain battle?
I'll tell you which wallet, shall I?
The one that can make fucking Dao Dao work without setting your fucking phone and your
device and your house on fucking fire.
That's the fucking wallet that will win the interchain, isn't it, Finn?
Isn't it, bro?
I don't have any problem with Dao Dao.
That's not going to be...
Yeah, that's not going to be related.
Hold on, hold on.
Yeah, wait, wait.
I use Dao Dao as...
I want to dive into this real quick.
I can't say too long, but maybe I do different things on it than you guys, but Dao Dao is
pretty smooth for me.
I do a couple transactions.
On mobile.
On mobile.
On mobile.
Come on, Kimmy.
On mobile.
Oh, man.
I do it on...
I do it on...
Hey, do a little experiment for me.
Get one of them little IR heat guns that tell you the temperature or something.
Start your phone.
Get a base temp, right?
With nothing...
I do it on desktop.
And then run Dao Dao.
Run Dao Dao and take a temp of your phone and tell me how hot that shit gets.
Okay.
I do have one of those guns, Finn, actually, because I'm a dabber, so I will do that as
a test.
Interesting.
Because it turns my phone into a fucking hand warmer, I'll tell you what.
That shit's scary when you got nothing fucking...
That's why I wanted to ask.
Watson.
I am chemical power coming at your face.
I don't do it on mobile, so I didn't even know that.
That's interesting.
Is that something they're, like, well aware of?
Has the community done some bitching, or...?
I'm sure they are now.
I'll make sure of it.
Oh, yeah.
We let them know.
Cool, cool.
Well, to me, this is...
On desktop.
Like, my tower's, like, right next to me, and it has those fans that kind of adjust themselves
as needed.
And every time I load up, it's probably because of how many NFTs I got.
But, like, you can hear the fans kick on, like, extra high when that shit loads.
So, I don't know, man.
So, I made a post and a meme about that on...
The meme was on Finn's request, and I tagged...
Fire extinguisher, that shit is so good.
And I tagged Noah and Jake and Seek, I think, in the post, and Noah responded with,
which page you were using when your phone was burning while you were on Dao Dao, and I basically
just said, the dev.
Yeah, I think...
All of it.
Star dot star.
All of it?
Like...
Let me put this in a way a dev will understand it.
Star dot star.
Okay?
That means all of it.
Bro, we have that many NFTs as well in the Rack FM Dao, right, that have to, like, load
You're seriously in danger of being charged with terrorism if you take your device out
in public, like if you're in the middle of a shopping mall, and you're trying to vote
on a fucking governance prop, too.
There's a very fine chance you're going to find yourself in Guantanamo fucking beer,
dude, with Harold and Kumar.
You have to make that a tweet.
That will be the most humorous and effective way at making Dao Dao be aware of and look
into this problem.
Plus, that's just hilarious.
Have you all ever seen the...
I forget which Iron Man movie it is, but it's when they turn, like, the people into bombs
kind of...
He's like, when is a bomb not a bomb?
When it's a fucking...
When it's your cell phone trying to vote on a government, you know?
That's what that shit always reminds me of.
Just going out in public.
Maybe if there's a gif from that you can add to the tweet or something.
When is a bomb not a bomb?
Oh, fuck.
Yeah, I'll be honest with you.
I've really fucking enjoyed this space.
I have to say it's been an absolute fucking pleasure.
Daniel was a great guest, man.
Fucking great guest.
Loved having some banter with him, you know?
Daniel...
To me, he's so nice, man, dude.
No, I mean, I'm so busy these days.
I would not be working with them in, you know, any capacity if I wasn't genuinely a huge fan.
And Daniel's a huge part of that, for sure.
Dude, do you know what we talk about, though, when, like, a number of interviews are sterile?
Or there's, like...
I mean, let's say that, like, you guys are launching early Q1, right?
Early...
In January, probably, you said.
Knock on wood, yep.
Like, think about it.
You've got to...
Yeah, you've got to do the circuit, though, right?
And for you guys, we know that the fucking circuit can come...
Like, when Finn's been launching singles and stuff, man, people are like, oh, come on,
and it's re-drama, isn't it, Finn?
I mean, nobody likes a circuit, right?
So we try to, like, break the circuit and not fucking be that.
And that's what we had tonight was, like, let's find out who these people are.
Let's have a little bit more, like, just in the sterile...
You know, Kimmy, there's a lot of sterile interviews, right?
And there's a lot of interviews, Kimmy, that are too technical as well.
There's a fine balance, actually.
And also, for projects that aren't out yet, like 42, if you go that direction,
you end up just doing another version of the interview they did last week, right?
Like, it's going to be basically the same questions and answers.
So that's why I've always been a fan of the way you guys do things.
Like, organic discussion and such.
Oh, dude, that was outstanding.
And they were going to wind this down now.
Finn will have this edited.
We're, like, on an hour and ten minutes now.
Finn will cut out and put a beginning in.
This will be on Spotify and a very good show.
I've really enjoyed it.
I expect this to do decent replays, actually.
Before we end out the night, I just want to say congratulations to Finn.
He was on 64 singles.
So I just want to say, when I'm 64, will you still love me?
Will you still need me?
When I'm 64.
I kind of remember the words, but you know the song?
I love this song.
It's by the Beatles, right?
You know, when I'm 64 by the Beatles.
Robo, you're the best.
But he did.
He's done fucking 64 copies.
And, you know, the thing is, like, Starz is nearly, like, 2X since we pulled it up, which is a big problem.
It's, like, nine bucks or something now compared to, like, 450 originally.
But it's, we can't control that.
I said to Finn, do you want to change the mint price?
He's like, nah, fuck that.
Why should we?
You know, he's the boss.
Let me, we can end on, we don't have to get into this topic, but just as a closing thought and note, if there were better Oracle services in the inner chain, how would you guys feel about NFT mints, like, on Stargaze, that could be paid for in Starz or other, like, you know, volatile tokens?
But it was always the same USD value.
So, tomorrow it might cost 42 stars, whereas today it cost 100 because the price went up.
Oh, so good.
Yeah.
Automatic, automatic.
Oh, dude, come on.
Whenever the time of buying is, you just pay the US, like, 50, if the NFT mints, $50, no matter when you buy, it costs whatever is worth $50 at that point in time in the amount of stars you put in.
Dude, you're giving me hard on.
You'll have to pay with stable, then.
Because then stars is still in the equation, and then you can kind of gamble on, like, if I'm a creator and I love Stargaze, it might just be easier for me to take everything in stars if my plan with USDC would be to buy stars anyways, for that example, you know.
It gives you that potential upside, but it also gives you that potential downside, right?
Yeah.
It's an extra gamble.
It's fun.
It's just a fun thing.
Yeah.
It'd be cool as an extra option, not, like, a, you know, overhaul or anything.
But, anyways, really appreciate you guys having us on.
I'll definitely keep in touch with you guys.
I think Daniel actually wants to start, well, in addition to the waitlist up top, everyone should sign up for that, but also a little, like, kind of insiders group with a couple content creators and such.
I'll see you guys on the next, like, coin landing page.
I will try and get you first glimpse at the landing page before we launch.
Robo, I'll probably chat with you and Bruce about maybe getting you in that influencer group or whatever it ends up being if we create that.
But, yeah, really appreciate you guys having us on.
I know Daniel was thankful, and it's been great.
Always a pleasure, Everett.
Very quickly, coin landing page.
We're going to end it.
Yeah, very quickly, bro.
All right.
Yeah, no, I definitely want to have a look at that landing page.
Speaking of landing pages, go take a look at Neutron's new landing page.
Ooh, what does new mean?
When did that get updated?
Right today.
Ooh, okay.
A couple minutes ago.
Let's do it right now.
Let's see.
A couple of minutes ago.
A couple of minutes ago.
What?
Wow.
Yeah.
Rebrand.
Interesting.
Okay, they're going with a green color palette now.
I kind of like this.
Very cool.
Very cool.
Did they tease this or announce it, or did this just kind of drop, like, boom, rebrand out of nowhere?
Or not even rebrand, but overall, I guess.
Overall, yeah, well, it's a rebrand.
And it's an upgrade.
Yeah.
More to come in the future.
Awesome.
Were you involved in this at all?
I was involved in it all.
Oh, this was your work, my friend?
Yes.
Beautiful, dude.
Awesome.
Awesome job.
This looks phenomenal.
Do you know what?
I'll say, like, Gandhi.
I love Cosmos.
People feel like shit about Cosmos all they want.
Sorry to cut you off, Robo, but just, like...
Did you just say you feel like Gandhi, man?
Every time I've mentioned Gandhi.
Yeah, okay, hold on.
Maybe I won't cut you off.
I like this.
Every time.
Every time.
By a team like you, Sean.
But what was that, Robo?
Every time I've mentioned Gandhi.
But we're bringing people together.
We're bringing people together.
Did you hear the love?
The brotherly love between Timmy and Colin Landerpage.
That was a beautiful moment.
For one moment, I felt like Nelson Mandela.
I felt like Gandhi.
I felt like Bill Clinton.
Not Bill Clinton, sorry.
I just felt like I was bringing the world together.
I felt like Trump, you know?
I have mentioned for the past, what, 18 months or so?
That I have mentioned the word Gandhi, Robo.
You have said, Gandhi, that pedophile, fucker.
He slept with...
No, no, no, no.
But there's a moment.
There's a moment.
I've heard it.
You know, Robo's made pedophile.
But there's a moment to say, like, you know,
Gandhi did some good in his life anyway.
But them two, I then two had a moment.
And on that moment, we're going to end the space.
So I'm going to say to you all, good night.
God bless.
Merry Christmas.
Give your loved ones a kiss, because I can't.
And I wish I could.
And just take care of yourselves.
And watch what you're doing, too.
If you're in the northern hemisphere, it's winter.
Be careful out on the roads and shit.
Look after your own.
You know, enjoy your family.
Enjoy the good stuff.
Crypt will still be here on January the 2nd.
All right, kids?
And with that note, it was a pleasure to speak to Daniel tonight.
Pleasure with Timmy on the official account.
Shout out 42.
I'm excited to see what's coming.
Shout out Colin Landon Page and the Newtron team
for dropping a bang on front end.
I'll just have a quick look.
And good night, and God bless, and Godspeed to you as all.
We love you as to be.
And shout out Terraspaces, as always, for recording.
