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RAC FM🦝 Sponsored by Alphagrowth.io😎$STARS Buyout Craic✨
Recorded: May 26, 2025 Duration: 2:18:42Space Recording
Short Summary
The discussion surrounding the potential buyout of Stargaze by the Cosmos Hub reveals a complex landscape of community sentiment, financial implications, and strategic partnerships. As concerns about token valuation and market confidence emerge, the conversation highlights both growth opportunities and challenges within the NFT ecosystem.
Full Transcription
Good morning, good morning, good morning people.
It is Monday the 26th of May 2025 and we've just kicked off the room.
It's Memorial Day to Bank Holiday or a public holiday.
Let's get some people in the room.
Let me get this retweeted.
Let's see if we can get a discussion on the go regarding the Stars buyout.
And let's gauge community sentiment.
You know, apparently we're hearing certain gripes within the community.
People are talking about it's extremely overpriced there's a lot of things like
priced in that maybe shouldn't I'm not I'm not gonna actually as a host I'm not gonna actually
make a personal opinion on it today we'll let the the you know the masses see how it goes right
people let me dm a few people right let's get this room out let's get a chair out let's get it boosted uh i'll be back in a minute peeps all right give us a second Thank you. Don't worry people, it's always a slow burner on a bank holiday.
Just got to let the people know we're live or we'll be getting nobody in.
Alright?
Let's get some opinions. I don't know. DMing people from the fucking, direct DMing people the fucking, it's arse do dog shit
isn't it man?
You like fucking tag fall people and it'll send like to one person, fucking shit twitter
recently man.
Read people it's not working so let me fucking just get this link out alright, we'll boost
the room soon enough, depending on how fucking hungover every cunt is eh? Hehehehe Thank you. Oh, JG, son, morning.
Let's get your mic over there, brother.
GM, GM, GM, fam.
I'm just firing this still out there a couple of people, mate.
It's Memorial Day
you know it's a slow burner on these days anyway didn't you
anyway you got a mic son if you want to jump in good morning good morning how
are you hello fam I'm alright mate it's it's fucking nice to hear from you and
I'll tell you why I actually went through both props over the weekend in great detail.
And then obviously there's a lot of talk about one.
I think there's probably like too much talk about one actually.
And maybe not enough talk about another one.
But I was like, well, okay, okay. We've got a freebie on one hand.
And then we've got a, let's healthy uh a healthy buyout for want of a
better word uh i didn't even know how your prop can feel at this point regardless of what happens
with a buyout if you're offering something for free like i'm i'm pretty fucking sure that like
it will be like silly like not a fucking like pass your prop if that makes any
sense like obviously i wanted this one to be about the stargaze uh buyout crack matey but i'm like
i'm kind of looking at it like logically jj and i'm like well there seems to be very little
argument against the backbone prop if i'm being honest well you know i think more than anything
um regardless of what stargaze does you know know, again, it's a great marketplace.
And I wish them well.
But their buyouts and their plans have zero bearing on our plans.
Like, I just don't even care.
Like, so if Adam wants to buy them, that's fantastic.
And I'm sure they'll do well.
But we have our own roadmap and our own plans that we want to execute.
And I believe there's space for both to be successful because, you know, Backbones never had the design to be the number one NFT marketplace.
That's just not what we do, right?
Like, we focus really on NFT5 communities.
We're an NFT5 protocol.
Like, it's just a different thing, right?
So, to me, I hope they find a way to to save what they've done
and migrate and hopefully you know whatever whatever they need to do is i wish them well i
mean they've been they've been great participants you know so i don't want to see any of these people
um who really put their blood and sweat and tears and souls into this i don't want to see any of
these guys fold up shop and go away to be honest you know um yeah i mean that's my opinion
i you know i think it's a little i think the ask is uh let's just put it nicely is is i mean it's
three times higher than the fdv so it's it's just math wise it doesn't make sense at these rates but
besides that i wish them well you know yeah mate it's if i'm being honest with you it's like comparing apples with battery acid
which is which in english it's an illogical comparison so in my opinion right here right
now you can't have like the same conversation about the same uh situation or the same it's
it's extremely different and i get exactly what you're talking about I think
everybody wants to say like people survive but that all I'm hearing right now is that the the
ask is and there's a lot of people talking about well it's the OP that opening position I kind of
get it but it's just there's there's no way on god's earth right now that those numbers
like add up on anybody's arithmetic scale it's just it i don't know we'll bring joe in here
there's plenty more to talk about tonight today uh good morning joe happy memorial day brother
i'll take it off work yeah i'm off work i just came on to just i wanted to celebrate the um the alpha growth
bang for buck that they're getting on this wonderful monday morning i just can't believe
how much value talking about cosmos is bringing to the alpha growth company um that they're
they're they're the heaviest of heavy hitters in the industry, thanks to Rack FM. Well, bro, they're happy to just let it ride, you know.
As long as we're on every day and serving the public, we're a public good, you know what I mean?
So they're happy to kind of let it ride, bro.
I'm busting chops, you know that.
The reason why I don't do spaces anymore is because there are some good reliable ones out there that same time every day um i get to pop in and uh either listen or shoot the shit and uh
no you guys you you you know i would like to uh work something out to do a partnership when you
can't do them based on american time but we'll worry about that you know when i get oh i think that's i need to
ask one hard one hard line question here is is pricing the stargaze token on the 200ma uh a
logical uh thing to do or given the fact of like what how much tank and that we've seen like you
know since it was in that range is
this a little bit like unrealistic of an ask do you think because it's like it's like well dude if
that would appear to be probably one of the biggest main like sticking prices right now
would have to be the forex multiplier on the current token price wouldn't it or am i wrong
yeah probably but i mean there's two things that I see.
Number one, this is literally a challenge
to the Cosmos Hub geniuses who are biz dev,
you know, all these like,
they have the greatest plans ever for the hub.
This is a challenge for them to actually do due diligence
and come up with a counter offer or walk away,
which is fine with me in either case.
The other thing is pricing an application or a blockchain and their token is retarded.
Nobody should do it. The FDV of a token is not the value of the chain or the app. It is not even
close. If it was, then they would all be registered securities and you would not be able to buy them on dexes so
i think that the token whatever they price the token at the fact first of all the fact that it's
priced and adam is retarded it should get priced in u.s dollars the buyout should be priced in u.s
dollars because adam just like stars is made up fake proof of stake money that they could mint
at any time they could change the balance of the community pool at any time, and they could change the inflation at any time. So it's not
going to go anywhere until they price everything in U.S. dollars. But the fact that all the midwits
on Twitter are saying, oh, well, stars is only valued at $2.6 million because that's the token
marketplace. They have literally learned nothing the last five years of watching tokens go to zero
because the reason why the token is trending down is because of the validator set.
And that's the first thing that goes away as soon as the deal is made.
The validator set and all the related expenses go away.
So throw that out the window.
And the other thing that goes away is the token itself.
Cosmos doesn't want the token.
So why would they price it in the token?
It doesn't make sense.
What they're basically doing is they're going to have to come to an agreement on what they
think the actual user count is on Stargaze.
Then they're going to have to figure out how much can each user be monetized for the hub.
And they're going to have to price it in U.S. dollars?
The amount that chain wants swapped for stars is going to probably come down by like two-thirds,
if I had to guess, maybe half to two-thirds. And it's basically an airdrop. It's an airdrop.
An airdrop is the cost of gaining users. It's standard across crypto the cosmos hub itself standardized this across crypto
figure out what it would cost to bring a thousand active users to your platform right and then
multiply that by however many users stargaze and the hub agree that they have and that's how much
the buyout should be if you're going to tell me each user is only worth twenty dollars
go do a twenty dollar airdrop and see how many users you can convert to your chain and let me know how that
works out so that's all i have to say i think the numbers haven't done like a calculated uh
customer like acquisition cost as well though haven't they kind of like priced like i mean it
seems to be like kind of like almost throwing a dot and a dot board at the closest number.
Now it's up to the hub to counter it and do their due diligence and come up with their number.
And then the truth will be somewhere in the middle.
But if the hub is going to go out and say, well, we don't think you have any active.
You only have 500 active users.
Then why would they start the conversation in the first place?
they start the conversation in the first place. So Stargaze, who by the way, has other options
besides the Cosmos hub is actually negotiating from a little bit better position than the Cosmos
hub is going to counter. If the Cosmos hub is going to go say, well, we don't believe you have
that many users. We think the number is like not 20,000. We think it's a thousand. Then why would
they be, why would they have pursued this in the first place
for the last five months? So the hub is in, is in trouble the same way that Stargaze is in trouble.
There's not enough revenue. There's not enough return on investment, let's say, for all the
software, all the team, all the, all the tech, all the validators. There's no ROI. Right.
So the hub's new plan is to put consumer apps and hopefully monetize the users.
So they look at Stargaze clearly as a bargain to buy users.
They're not they're not buying the software so much as they're buying the users.
They just have to decide, are there X amount of active users like we think they are?
And is Stargaze going to agree to our counter, yes or no?
And they should price the whole thing in US dollars
to price something in Adam
as if Adam is this like pristine
money that's widely recognized
across Web3 is
the most retarded shit I've ever seen.
And I think Shane, whether
he did it on purpose or not, is literally
challenging ICL and ICF
to do due diligence and make a
legitimate counter offer or just walk away they could walk away they could yeah yeah jordan he's
went in he's went in with a very very hard like op like opening position that's got to be like one of
the highest like ops like so he's very clearly going to negotiate down from there. But it's like, where does it actually end up, right?
Well, here's the thing.
Does anyone that works for the ICF or the Cosmos Hub
actually know what a marketplace is worth?
If so, that's the counteroffer.
But so far, what we've seen from the Cosmos Hub
is just tremendously dysfunctional negotiating,
horrendous business development. Some of the dumbest ideas
you could possibly imagine rolled out at Cosmoverse every year. Remember, they were like,
we could mint 10 billion Atom and then we could just buy Osmosis. It's like, well,
why would you want to buy Osmosis when you want their token to go away? All the liquidity on the
whole goddamn DEX is based in their token, but you want the token to go away and then you want to value it based on their token.
These people are retarded. They're all retarded. I hope the stride DEX works out. I think it will
if they put a good UI and they can route transactions through the hub. But everybody's
been saying for four years, that's what should have happened in the first place. But everyone
else wanted, no, no, we want sovereignty. We want want a neutral hub now all of a sudden they don't want a neutral hub because
it's all going to shit and the validators are the reason why the validators the icf um all in bits
they're retarded they're really retarded i hope stargaze gets the best deal but i also hope adam
gets the best deal i think this is going to be a shit show of a negotiation for the next couple
weeks couple months or i think the hub will just walk away and just fork something.
Well, there's no problem.
There's no shame in that.
That's how we got here in the first place.
Everything getting forked.
And then they'll realize, well, we can't fork community.
So how do we attract community?
We'll do an airdrop.
And then the airdrop is going to be way more expensive
than what Stargaze is asking.
We'll see.
You'll see.
Yeah.
JJ had his hand up there.
So I just want to clarify for everybody coming in the room.
Some of the main points of contention are obviously the 4X multiplier on the current token price.
Allegedly, people are saying, well, Stargazer's inflated fucking holders to death.
And now they're just looking for a hold to bail out, which would appear to be true if it's a 75 percent markup or whatever it is right
uh there's something to that i didn't mention so shane and the stargaze team feel that
interchange labs intentionally leaked the the the talks a couple of months ago and some hub
aligned validators in sync um sold off the token on purpose
so they could negotiate from a lower price.
Whether it was on purpose or not, that is kind of what happened.
But I don't think that that justifies a 4X multiplier
because in the end, you're getting paid an ATOM
and ATOM is not worth what it's really worth anyway
because let's say everyone sells the ATOM token,
it's going to be worth like 2X, not 4X anyway anyway so there's got to be a better way to do the conversion
well we'll get jj in here but the the token price is a big problem for a lot of people
right the current you know pricing of it the all the token are a big problem that's why i know
wait a minute everyone's chasing the newest thing because the token prices are shit wait a minute so customer acquisition costs is almost like a dart has been
thrown in a dartboard there's no actual like proper based uh metric evidence of exactly like
why that customer 100 you're 100 right and the other one uh wait a minute you've
thrown me now the other one is obviously the situation with the uh well the monthly users
is another one i mean me personally i know that i've got uh three active stargaze wallets i know
there's people out there who've got like 10 11 12, 12. So the act of monthly users is going to be another
big problem as well, right? Let's know that, you know, Sybil wallet. It is. What they need to
figure out is what is monetizable. Like if they're going to say there's 20,000 users and each user
generates, let's say $100 in fees for the year, That's the same thing as saying they have 10,000 users
and each user generates $200 a year.
All that matters is the bottom line for the hub.
But I don't think they have the gray matter
to cut through token prices
and look at what's actually there.
It's not only users.
There are creators that launch projects
that generate revenue. even though stargaze
didn't have gas they there was someone was making money every single time an nft was traded now the
hub has gas right so the hub is going to make money along with the creator the trader all that
stuff they have to figure that out and i honestly this is going to be tremendous entertainment for
the next couple weeks couple months and i'm here for it i'm not buying adam i'm not buying stars but i'm a i'm a
fly on the wall and i love it so yeah well we mentioned those three and then the fourth one
would essentially be the situation around the front end licenses etc so a lot of people are
saying wait a minute this is not a buyout this is a. You're just leasing this shit. So I tell you what, JG was very patient there. JG, mate, you have to turn up?
Yep, yep. Oh, yeah. You know, I just wanted to chime in.
Forking stars is actually not an easy thing to do because they have a lot of modules built into their chain.
So when they decide to try to port over, if that happens, the experience is not going to be the same.
Like the functionality that we currently experience on Stargaze is not done through um just smart contracts like it's
a lot of its modules on the blockchain level so unless unless they're gonna retool the atom
blockchain like it's gonna be a different experience to a certain degree that's good to
know i'm gonna have to rewrite in solidity though as well didn't they say that they're
gonna start straight away having to like record everything into solidity for the evm side well
all of us all of us who want to deploy on atom will have to retool eventually to solidity they're
gonna run the evmos machine for in parallel for about a year um it could be a little longer but
for about a year i was heard that that um the WASM will be supported in parallel with the Solidity.
And so everybody who wants to deploy on Atom has a time frame, but they're going to have to support it for sure.
Otherwise, you're not going to be Atom aligned.
Yeah, Jay, you know, isn't this crazy the arc of like now all of a sudden ethereum has the best tech so all these years of trying to
be different than ethereum whether it's cosmos solana build your own vm invent your own
bullshit smart contract language we're all going back to ethereum where the gas prices are too high
but magically the blockchain works perfectly fine because they have it's not why they're doing it
if you want to uh so the reason why i spoke to. It's not why they're doing it. So the reason why I spoke to Magmar,
the reason why they're doing it is just for dev resource power.
So Rust, unfortunately, is speaking a very rare form of Cantonese,
a very expressive form of Cantonese,
but there's not enough people to talk to.
The true reason for it is the dev resource power power um that's available it's not really um
has nothing to do with the languages actually something's got me wait a second something's got
me extremely concerned about this whole cosmos evm crack that's going on right now so let me get
this right for years and years and years we've been held hostage by confio right and the cousin was a mafia now uh thought
chain and and jp and them have said that they're going to take over the funding the dev side of
things they're bringing people in so let me get this right the one time that we get the break
away from the the confio cartel right and actually get someone who's doing it for the betterment of
the ecosystem and then we're just going to abandon this like i don't i'm not quite getting the program here people
is it me or am i thinking like what the is going on why are we abandoning optimism
no we're gonna build we're gonna build the plane while it's flying it's it's it's perfect and
everyone else that's retail just stake your tokens and suck it and bend over and take it hard that's
that wolf door the devs
will figure it out a couple more trips around the world they'll figure it out jj you understand what
i mean about why the after all of this time and just breaking free from the cartel with
cosmos are we now gonna all ditch it i'm not quite sure what's going on i think i think the other
thing is is that we have a new team we have skip at the. They're a good team. But I don't know if they're prepared to do the management of the SDK for the Cosm Modulum stack, to be honest.
And, you know, JP Thor, he bought Station Wallet already.
So he definitely has some, you know, he's, Thor chain is SDK.
So, I mean, he has the experience and they have the team to manage this.
So, if he's willing to pick up the pieces of that and carry on, you know, I think that we will have two sides of this faction.
I think people will want to stay Cosm, Wasm, Maxis.
They love the way, they love, from what I've been talking to these developers, people who know both languages,
almost to a person, every single one of them says they enjoy working in Rust more than Solidity.
It's just a common thread experience.
So we have, again, like, so we're planning to do what's required for Atom, but we're planning to also not, we're not going to abandon the other chains or other projects by any stretch of the imagination. Right. So hopefully JP continues to develop the Cosm Wasm stack.
And we,
you know,
then we,
we have plans to do stuff and hang out on Rooji too.
Right.
Like we want to be able,
the whole point is,
is that if we're not doing stuff together,
if there's not activities,
then the no network is fucking valuable.
Like you've got to do stuff together.
You have to have fun.
You have to have not just games, but just things to do with your, quote, air quote, smart money.
Otherwise, it's just stupid money.
We need to have activities to make the money smart or vice versa.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, John, do that, Joe?
No, I was trying to clap, but I hit the wrong button but no he's right there needs to be stuff to do and i think stargaze like i said it's in a unique
position to argue that they have something there's commerce there there's something to do with the
tokens there are independent creators who come to stargaze to sell things. Stargaze takes a cut soon to be the hub.
But if what JG is saying that it's very complicated to convert an app chain into an app, then that's going to be a big problem.
But the other thing to keep in mind is that Shane was in the room when Cosmwasm was invented, when it was created.
So they could conceivably use the stargaze team with shane if
he's willing obviously i don't know if this is even discussed i'm just making this up but he
was there when it was invented he knows he actually the people well he actually sponsored
the hackathon room at the time it was actually invented shane was the primary sponsor the day it was invented.
Right. So he's probably qualified. It's a matter of, is that what he
wants to do or is he committed
100% to the Stargaze users
who are trading and
building, creating collections?
But we'll see. Like I said, the hub has
to do due diligence. If they don't do due diligence,
they're going to wait forever.
They'll finally onboard an app when it's too late and if stargaze has other options which i think they do it would
be really a bad look for cosmos if they pass this up over like a couple million dollars when they've
made horrendous mistakes in the tens and hundreds of millions of dollars wait a minute hasn't he
always hasn't he already factored in though the costs of the dev team of rewriting everything into solidity, though?
I'm sure that's factored.
I think he knows.
So I think the way to split up the prop is the team, the contracts, the users, the creators.
I think if you address those four things, the hub has something concrete to discuss and counter, and they should look at it piece by piece.
But at the end of the day, is the marketplace on the hub going to generate what it needs to generate to make it worthwhile?
I mean, they were talking about buying Osmosis for $500 million.
That was almost a $400 million mistake.
And now they're going to go, well, it's not really worth $13 million.
It's worth
11.9 million. That 1.1 million is definitely make or break. Let them do an airdrop when they finally
launch some apps and see how much the airdrop actually costs them to bring users. Because an
airdrop is definitely the most expensive, it's the fastest way, it's the most expensive way
to get users. It dilutes everything that it touches and you don't always get the user to return again and again.
Stargaze is lucky because they have data that shows
there are people who come again and again and again
to use the platform.
But we'll see.
Like I said, this is going to be tremendous entertainment value.
Tremendous.
The people on Twitter can't get over the price of stars.
This is going to go on for months
and then eventually one of them is either going to go their separate ways or there's going to be a massive compromise.
That's going to make 50 percent of the people involved unhappy.
In the meantime, while they're trying to hash all this out, Backbone will get out.
We're going to put our prop up in a couple of days.
We're going to get this whitelisted wallet.
We're going to we're going to put up a grave digger.
We're going to start having Adam activities. and so while everybody else argues about the buyout
price that's cool uh you know that's the way to do it if you're willing to do it of course why not
that's what we do anyway of course yeah that's exactly what's gonna happen you know it doesn't
even the whole point is if stars wants to leave this is the hard truth if they would on if they
can't if this doesn't work out and they have to leave or is the hard truth if they would on if they can't if this
doesn't work out and they have to leave or they get a better deal or whatever it is if there's a
vacuum the the the nature speaks that something will fill that vacuum right so i don't understand
why it's a huge deal i've survived chain crashes on tara we've watched marketplaces die i've
migrated collections that have become successful you know i'm saying like all this stuff just
continually moves so like nobody should get stuck on it anyway and the other thing the hub
could come back and say maybe there is no vacuum maybe nfts are are finished we're not gonna bend
over backwards for an nft it's so niche only a few people even understand them or even like them
um we want to focus on on on you know replicating like the the defy ecosystems that are working
whether it's like hyper liquid or base or whatever that that's that's totally valid too
but like i said i don't think they have the horses to get to get anything reasonable done
i'm hopeful but i think that whether or not they they decide to pay 13 million or 3 million for
stargaze i think they have to do something
this is the easiest way to quantify real users and if they come to an agreement on what the user
activity as a whole is worth i think that the hub can do a lot worse than to than to bring on stargaze
they've done so many dumb things like they gave gave fucking Jacob Gattigan like $2 million to quote unquote
monitor the hub activity.
The guy went fucking AWOL within like a couple months after that.
Like they fork over money all the time.
Hey, what prop is that?
What prop is that?
I want to look that up.
What prop was that?
I want to, it was a long time.
It was probably like two, it had to be at least one and a half years ago.
I'm never surprised at least two and a half years ago. I'm never surprised
what people were able to
pull off.
He's good at convincing people that
he's good at convincing people
that they have a massive security
vulnerability in their chain, and he's the
only one that could fix it if only
you give him
this much money per month. It's not even a one-time
subscription service he got that he got that though literally right before notional imploded
so it was he literally got that like about a month before it went kids up right
hey let's give it let's give a known maniac two million dollars of unaccountable funding with no
oversight what could possibly go wrong that sounds like the government sounds like our government joe it sounds like the u.s
dude the notionals like the us a idea of fucking crypto it's a true story though wait he got the
money and then he went on the run indonesia because he was terrified the vietnamese government
were coming after him he went on the run first of all the bangkok and then bali
he has such a good imagination i wouldn't put it past him if he invented the whole thing
and everyone got a piece to act like he was on the run and then like come on i think it was ridiculous
that the hub is all of a sudden and here's the other thing here's the other thing about the users
how come it's okay if celestia, Barachain,
all these other Cosmos aligned chains
are allowed to go on Twitter and say,
we have 2.7 million users on our test net.
We have 8 million rollups deployed on our dev net.
But then Stargaze is like,
yeah, we have 20,000 active wallets.
Here's the data.
Here's how much they generate for the chain. Everyone's like, 000 active wallets here's the data here's how much
they generate for the chain everyone's like oh my god that's fake it's it's it's so stupid it's
fucking retarded it's retarded but i gotta say how many times have you seen it hey the reverse is the
reverse this is what barot chain and those other chains are saying is ultra retarded because if
you've been here you know there's no fucking 8 million users. What the fuck?
I think there's not even 8 million people on fucking Solana and ETH combined.
I would love for Shane to be like, hey, listen, we made a mistake with the users.
It's not 20,000.
It's actually 20 million that everyone will be like, oh, okay, that makes sense.
That would be the best way for him to change the prop, 20 million active users.
And wait, but you have to say it with 20 million active users on test net.
That's where all the value is.
It's all on the test net.
Oh, we have 30 billion commits on the dev net.
Like that's you got to always make sure that you're not lying about main net and you get a ton of funding, ton of investment.
That's the way to go.
I'm going to I'm going to talk to Shane today.
I'm going to message him and say, Shane, you made made a mistake you missed a whole bunch of zeros at the end of
your active user estimate i'm guessing jg like in my opinion i would say i'm kind of guessing
that this is probably allowing you guys to fly under the radar a little bit here do you know
what i mean like as if this wasn't out maybe like this might be i don't know i'm not going to say
take heat uh but you know what people are like there, as if this wasn't out, maybe like this might be. I don't know. I'm not going to say take heat.
But you know what people are like.
There's always going to be haters everywhere.
But I can imagine now that this is out, you guys are going to be able to fly under the radar a little bit here, right?
Under the radar?
He should put up a prop that they'll do the marketplace for $12 million.
That should be the next prop I see.
Let's make this fun.
Let's have an entertaining summer. I mean, I don't know how much better free can be.
But, I mean, we're not even looking.
That's the whole thing.
Like, Backbone, we don't want to owe anybody.
That's number one.
I don't want to owe any chain, any allegiance.
Backbone's doing its own thing.
We have a presence in a lot of places.
We just want to bring our party to the table.
And if we're able to bring people in and get people to participate,
well, then good on us.
That's all it comes down to.
Be interesting or die.
If you're not, then that's the end of the game right there.
Is the fact that you're bringing along a Dex,
and I know the Dex is primarily going to be for bait assets,
but do you think there's any sort of,
are you expecting any pushback from like anybody on the
stride team the very fact that this has been accompanied by your decks or not well i mean so
you know the elite guys are total chads i really like those guys's energy and you know they're
building a deck too they have a very atom aligned decks and they were they you know they saw our
prop and they were like yo just come through just do what you're gonna do right like they have the right attitude uh anybody who wants to put up
noise about any of these things uh they have too much invested and they have they're probably
having bags like like stars like great like whatever whatever happens with stars like i'm
happy with like it doesn't it doesn't affect me right it doesn't affect backbone we are uh healthy uh builders right together so
we recognize that but other people who when you see other teams who will like shout at stars or
something they might have a big value there might be some other thing that we're not seeing you know
what i mean but but again if we're not welcoming what's the we're not inviting we're not inviting
robo as a group as like users even if we we're not welcoming to people to build, to try out ideas.
Now, granted, we want to also try the safe ideas.
We want to make sure that we use some type of maybe social networking with you check, you know, cryptos, the Wild West.
So we don't want to give everybody the keys to the kingdom, but we have to be welcoming for people to bring their ideas to the table.
Otherwise, nobody's going to care what the cosmos is doing.
I mean, that was why the app chain thing was kind of cool, because you could just bring your idea and spin it up sovereign and then you're not at the mercy.
So it cuts both ways. You know, there's definitely I still see a lot of reasons to be an app chain, to be honest.
You know, a lot.
There's a lot, you know.
I mean, look at a cost.
What's the LFP provider again?
That's, uh... The Gravedigger?
No, no, no, not yours.
The Hub one, that's what you did.
Oh, I can't remember what that one's called.
Hydro?
They have another, the one that's built into the module?
Because they did one that's built into the... That one. That one. I don't remember what that one's called hydro i they have another but the one that's like built into the module because they did one that's like built into that one that one yeah i don't remember i
don't remember what that one's called i was just wondering wasn't that like dev by like the north
koreans it was me and i he hired two north koreans to do it i can't believe it but i'm just wondering
if they would look and see you know people, people in the background, or we do all want another, you know, LST provider right now, you know?
Yeah, I know.
See, look, here's the thing again.
Like, what, what, the funniest thing is, like, people, we have all these LSTs, but, like,
what are people actually doing with them, right?
Like, I guess some people borrow against them.
That's pretty much the most common thing to do.
And then some, some some LPing, right?
But like, so we look at it totally different. And LST is really, it's a massive community
building tool, right? So if we all, you know, we're all agreeing to utilize a little bit of
our of the yield for a very specific mission, you know, our mission, I mean, don't get me off track
for a second, but the whole point is to be able to participate in these places, be capital efficient, have a marketplace that's capital efficient, all fueling the community purpose of, you know, whatever-fi pushing those boundaries, not trying to be a number one marketplace,
not minting collection after collection after collection. Like none of that is interesting to
us, right? So all of these purchase prices to me sound silly because a lot of the activities
that happen on marketplaces, I feel are counterproductive to supporting a chain,
of supporting a chain, right?
right? Like having artists being able to just come and open door mint,
Like having artists being able to just come
and open door mint, bleed something out
and then just cash out and leave,
that doesn't help anybody either, right?
We wanna be able to be launching projects
that are projects because they're supportive
of the chain that they're on.
That's really what makes these NFT communities,
I think relevant.
If you're not an NFT community that's,
if you're just some random community just on a
chain and you happen to mint out in a bull market and you just exit like that's that's just a rug.
All right. Isn't it like I don't know. I don't want to get off too much on a tangent, but isn't
it? I mean, it's a net negative. It's that type of activity. It doesn't help anybody. So we need
to have projects like the NFT needs to have, I think in the future, you know,
Joe made a comment, is the NFT dead?
And I don't think so.
But I think the NFT community needs to have much more utility than what we've seen in
the past.
I think there needs to be more unity of focus.
There needs to be a mission.
The message in crypto, I feel like is getting washed out because this is a movement of freedom.
This is an expression of rebellion.
This is so your government doesn't trample on your rights.
This is what it started.
And now in a lot of ways, it's just a lot of speculation, gambling, VC shit.
And that's fine, too.
But just remember that there's two sides to the coin, right?
I'm here.
I don't know about everybody else.
I'm here to have the freedom to build value
outside of the government's purview.
That's the truth.
I don't like the fact that they think that they're entitled to just ride me.
That's not happening, right?
So that's why I'm in it over here.
So now we, why should, you know, other people's reasons are their own reasons.
But, you know, now we're here to try to
do this together and i think doing it together lst is a great community builder it's not even a
it is a defy product because we're doing it together decentralized but it's not i don't
think about it as like actually you know is it fantastic are we reinventing the wheel no we're
just auto compounding some shit using a little bit of the yield, shared yield to now achieve something greater together.
Right. So we're taking that a step further and we're pairing it with all these different components that we've built and inherited and saved.
Right. So the decks, the market, the validators, everything is now going to be.
Well, if wherever Backbone participates, you know that 50 percent of everything that's earned is going to go straight into Seoul. Like, because we want to, we want to be a place where we've been wrecked so
many times in the cosmos, like Terra, all the places, Megaloo, like we've wrecked, we've been,
we've just continued to build. And that's, you know, that's been our lesson is okay. Now, how do
we participate safely? How do we do this? And so now we're coming up with a new way of doing it that's
why to me again like i don't even feel like i compete with stars i feel like what we are
are trying to achieve is just so massively different um that i mean yeah i i'm rooting
for them i'm rooting for anybody who's fucking putting the blood sweat and tears
through this whole time it's been hard these four, if you've made it and gone this far,
dude, you're a champ.
You're a fucking champ.
That's what it is.
JJ, what did you think about the numbers on the front-end license,
which obviously Stargate is still on the IP?
Stargate is a resilient controller that I pay.
So the front-end license and then the team money as well,
what did you think about
the team ask yeah so i mean i again i think both are are high and i think they're i think there's
a lot of room i you know this is definitely a negotiating tactic you ask high and you're maybe
your real number is just a much different number but you know it's like a trump move you know you
say something wild you get everyone's attention they start talking it's like a Trump move. You know, you say something wild, you get everyone's attention, they start talking, it's a good move. Like, I'm sure that reasonable heads will prevail. And, and then, and then we can just keep building energy. That's what that's what we have to do. We can't keep being like, in the mindset of fighting because everybody's broke. That's like the cosmos mentality for like the last like 40 years, like everyone's at each other's throats.
broke that's like the cosmos mentality for like the last like 40 years like
everyone's at each other's throats before but before that it used to be one
of the most inviting fun places to come hang out and learn about these these
strategies products and activities that's right I mean that's kind of why
I stuck around and it's also I think the ease of building here is you find out
that as a builder it's actually I mean that's why rust is pretty cool it's
pretty easy to kick to get going I don to say easy, but it's it's not as complicated, right? So
The ask in my opinion is is is a lot but again, I don't I'm not I'm not monitoring their stuff and I haven't dissected it and
again, I think it's just better to be inclusive find a better better deal. If there's not one that can be made, then other builders will fill the gap.
And that's just what it is.
But I think everything should try to be more positive.
We don't need to be at each other's throats at all.
I agree with you.
I agree with you, which is why we're talking like adults tonight.
We're just trying to get to the bottom of what people think and people's feelings, etc.
of what people think and people's feelings, et cetera.
What about the fact that a lot of people are saying,
well, you're trying to leverage the IP of individual collections
that just happened to have minted on your blockchain, right?
And you know what I'm talking about, yeah?
Do you think that that was a fair statement within the prop?
Essentially, like...
So I would say i would say
that it's fair for them to say bad kids because i think i think that they really have a very shared
uh history for sure i i would not say i think it's a little strange to say uh to include the
value of these other collections because like mad scientists would be successful wherever they put their energy.
That's just the truth.
That's just my belief.
Maybe this Celestian Sloss, maybe they wouldn't have been.
I don't know.
It's kind of a hard pitch.
They're definitely intertwined.
Some of their success is definitely due to Stargates.
There's no doubt about that, right?
It's a shared synergy.
But to say that is their selling value, I don't know.
I mean, again, it's not a sticking point.
I'm not losing any sleep over it.
When you sell a house, look, when you sell a house, you fucking appraise the shit out of it, right?
Let them appraise their house.
Let somebody else come and do a counterappraisal.
And then they come on a price and then we get busy.
And then we keep doing stuff together. that's where we thought about JJ.
We talked about this last week.
So essentially it's an IP by proxy, right?
And it's to what extent does Stargaz have a grip on that IP by proxy, right?
on that I pay by proxy, right?
Look, if they spend $14 million
and don't have control of the product,
then that's, I mean, the community is the voters, right?
It would be, we're all a bunch of idiots.
It's not coming out of their treasury,
it's coming out of the community pool, right?
So I don't know if that's the best deal.
I think that for that amount of money,
it should be a much fuller ownership.
They can have aligned incentives in other ways.
They don't have to have aligned incentives by controlling the IP.
They can have aligned incentives by their vesting at them, right?
Like they don't have to have – I don't know.
I think that's strange.
Yeah, but the vesting is not actually that long.
If you actually look up what's available straight away
and then what's available obviously on the Vetsna schedule,
the Vetsna schedule is not actually a great deal of time.
Joe, mate, welcome back, buddy.
Yeah, I had to change cars.
I don't know how this is going to work on this new car,
but hopefully you guys can hear me all right and there's no delay.
But I wanted to throw in this idea that I think the best option for Stargaze
is not to get quote-unquote bought out by the hub.
I think that the best option is to do what Prism is doing
and convert to a PSS chain with a single validator,
and Stargaze is the validator, right? And I know that people
will complain, oh, it's centralized, it's this, it's that, it's the other thing. I think that
would be like my first choice, unless there's like a technical reason or a practical reason
that that's not possible. I think that every chain that finally realizes they're not
big enough for their validator set should look at partial security first. And they don't have to be
a PSS chain on the hub. They could be a PSS chain on another Cosmos chain that has enabled shared
security. So it could be osmosis, right? It could be another chain i think that conversation would be interesting even though
it might not be on on the table for for for shane and the stargaze team because i think partial set
security makes the most sense and is the cheapest way to do um to do a quote-unquote acting
do you know that's an interesting one.
So do you know something that I actually thought about this?
I actually thought that the hub buyout must be the last chance ranch, right?
So I can't really imagine that Shane is in favour of selling out of the hub, right?
And I was thinking thinking you know what
if there was another way to be able to go out there and get some investment right
if there was some leverage on the token price or whatever right if there was some way to be
able to go out and get investment like osmosis did when they raised the 21 million etc
they would probably go down that route what i'm what i can see what i think it's easy to get investment if
you're an nft platform and you have an actual product all you have to do is mint off a collection
of nfts and call them ownership tokens and pay out a percent of future earnings to the holders
of that collection that's how i would do it i mean people that understand nfts would be happy to participate if you can get a piece of
an app for five hundred dollars or a thousand dollars without having to come in with millions
you could crowdsource it yeah you would have a lot of people you know a lot of cooks in the kitchen
probably but i mean if stargazer yeah but you know the problem problem there there's no guarantee of
a minimum raise though that's the problem and there needs to be a certain amount to be able to keep the project going
keep the lights on so that's that's up to them to they need to get good at pitching this thing i
guess because i think it's unrealistic to look at other chains that are raising like 10 20 30
million dollars and you know i think that's unrealistic for kind of a niche.
You know, NFTs are still very niche.
A lot of people don't like them.
A lot of people don't understand them.
A lot of people don't even think they're fun.
So you're already speaking to a small fraction of the overall Web3 community, investor base, whatever you want to call it.
Interesting. Let's welcome our friend. We've got some new speakers out five on it good morning Mary you want to weigh in on the Stargaze buy out five on it
I don't really have a dog in the fight neutron left ICS we have our own
platform it's actually accepting atom for anything now you don't even got to
set the collection into the denomination you You just drop down to USDC, Atom
or Neutron and every collection
switches. So imagine
if we didn't leave ICS
and it'd be a four-way fight in those swarms right now.
That's all I'm saying.
As a creator,
I think we should just, rather than
all this other crazy shit, just open up
the ICS 721 and let collections
move about the cabin to any
marketplace even if they want to stay with stargaze launch that would make more sense that
that would make the most sense five on it right just to have ics 721 enabled right across the
board with everything right yeah ship a theseus uh if we'd have a ship and we slowly replace every
part on it is it still the same ship if they burn all all these Stargaze NFTs and move it to the hub, are they still the same NFTs, provenance, and fucking ownership?
Verification-wise, you know? It's fucking stupid.
And especially if they're migrated to a completely different contract language as well.
We go on EVM and now we can't do shit like we've been planning for the last year, interchain-wise?
It's a little frustrating you know i've been in a spaces with shane and asked him about dows and
it was like the first time he ever even thought about what happens to dows when he burns all
these tokens like every dow breaks you know yeah that's going to be an interesting conversation
i'll tell you that's that's actually but that's one thing that we've never touched on today is
the dow aspect uh someone was talking about this the other day to me.
Good morning, Tanki, son.
We're having a right old debate today, mate, on the Stargaze situation.
Yeah, yeah.
Sorry, just tuning in.
Just got to the office, kind of doing some shit.
Just want to say, first and foremost, god bless all the warriors who gave their life and the
families who uh sacrificed for our freedoms here in america if you're not american fuck y'all i'm
just joking i would like to hear your opinion on this actually because this is a good one for you
actually the uh the calculated like customer acquisition costs mean, I get what they did when they've looked at Blur and Magic Eden and stuff.
But for me, I think that's the one that people will struggle to get across even more than the token price inflation, right?
Yeah, no.
Like, you know, don't get me wrong again.
And it's nothing personal.
We're just talking business, right?
Like, business-wise, all feelings aside of the team and adam hub and
all that stuff that does not make any sense the evaluation that they put up there and the ask is
like you got to go back to the drawing board on that one um the way they the way that they
structured and kind of like five was touching on it i believe a lot of uh key aspects of what's made
nfts so much fun not just in cosmos but just in general uh you know
we're ignored i don't want to say completely ignored but we're definitely you know not um
i don't know not not not thought of like all these dows and stuff like that and they might
not think like oh there's not a lot of dows on all this stuff but there's a lot of people there's a
lot of people who minted nfts not just the creators but there's a lot of people who minted nfts not just the creators but there's a lot of people who've minted nfts who are are kind of just sitting by like what
the fuck i i do agree i think ics 721 is like why why have we not just gone ham on that that would
didn't we fund that wasn't that yeah like multiple community pools and now they want to monetize the
uh they want to monetize that that bridge yeah no it's permissionless it's it's said in the forums it's permissionless and so i was like
i've heard a lot of rumors uh someone told me even but there's no hours ago that it was a ten
thousand dollar to get a new collection whitelisted now that the open whitelist is gone and i don't
know about that but uh i won original cutes Neutron and formed up a DAO.
Now, whatever Stargaze does when the merge happens,
I have no idea what happens to these tokens
now that they're off Stargaze.
Like, can they only take all the tokens
that are on their chain?
Oh, wow.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah, and that's something else.
Like, you know, you just kind of feel abandoned
as a creator and as just a community member. Anybody that's making any NFTs know you just kind of feel abandoned uh as a creator and as
just a community member anybody that's minted any nfts and they're trying to do whether it's
socially or financially uh you know uh motivated it just you kind of just feel like you're kind of
left in the dust by both parties stargaze and the hub and you know i'm not trying to talk ill about
them or whatnot but it's just kind of like it's pretty shitty it's pretty shitty by the way five
on i did uh get the mint a couple of things it was it was a pretty good experience over there in uh
super bowl yeah yeah i mean brand new site little ui issues here and there but nothing crazy you
know css um i can't wait for the part i couldn't find the mint button uh yeah so it was probably
because um i i helped chente troubleshoot this and a lot of it was for the first two so it was probably because I helped Chintay troubleshoot this,
and a lot of it was for the first two days, it was on load.
It was diverting to, like, the very first whitelist
where you probably didn't have a mint button.
But they fix it overnight now where if you're on public,
it defaults to the public tab automatically, the latest whitelist.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I'm going to play with it today.
I had some time later tonight to get in front of the computer.
But I was going to throw something out to Tank and yourself, actually.
Obviously, ideally, everyone just wants Stargaze to work
and they want their NFTs that they've minted on Stargaze
to be on Stargaze with the option to move them around
if there's ever, you know, the option to do that.
Would you guys vote yes for a prop that eliminates 90% of the stars
validator set or more, and then just goes to zero inflation
and the validators work for a percentage of like, you know,
the market fees or something like that,
even if one of those validators is the Stargaze team itself?
Yeah, I'm not a fan of ICS after seeing neutron have to deal with it but uh like you were saying
i don't know it's very centralized to me but um having stargaze have to rely on you know coinbase
and all these big ass validators that validate on adam to push an update six days later while
all these other you know nerdy validators are pushing it right on time and then the chains
suck like just stuck in limbo till these big fuck it yeah you know what i think i think i just don't care about
decentralization when it decentralization is a luxury that we can't afford i see that more and
more here in web 3.2 like people are like this you know governance there's only one there's only one
token that's managed to pull it off and it it's Bitcoin, which everyone hates. That's why they're playing with DeFi.
So maybe, is this recorded?
Fuck decentralization.
Fuck decentralization.
Fuck the validator set.
Make my tokens go up.
I don't give a shit about consensus.
I don't give a shit about Sybil attacks on the validator set.
The tokens have
suffered enough. Free the tokens
from decentralization. Fuck it.
So, Stargazer's
pretty close to being
fully diluted, isn't it?
It is, but I think they
changed the supply a couple
times, or at least once, and it doesn't really... If you use the supply a couple times or at least once and it doesn't
really want if you use the token to bootstrap they're bootstrapped right the problem is that
their expenses are too big and like why do you need 80 100 120 validators to like agree that
i would like to buy this one dollar nft can you give it to me in my self-custody wallet?
Like, that's totally not necessary. If you want to have a system outside the normal governance
to do things that require decentralization, you can do it through sub-davs. You don't need
separate validators. It's nice to have a bunch in different geographic locations in case, like,
somebody sets off an E an emp but we're not
there yet like let's just let's just have the cheapest infrastructure possible and the best ui's
possible and decentralization it's really for losers is what we're finding out
it just goes to show you how far ahead of the game Joe Chain was.
So can you imagine Joe, right, if they'd taken the lessons, like people had taken the lessons
from Joe Chain, where you could run a perfectly successful IBC fucking connected chain with
like what, nine or ten validators?
Was it ten, wasn't it, when it kicked off and then it went to nine?
Well, if you look at the validator set on Mins scan it said 10 but it was really one it was like
pop most times 10. it was put moss and race wasn't it yes i think cosmos spaces i think cosmos i
think it was three validators but i think pop most had like like 70 of the voting power so that he
could he could push updates and and tinker with token standards and stuff,
because he was screwing with that thing for like several weeks,
and he couldn't be bothered to ask for consensus.
And guess what? Everything worked out fine.
I can honestly say that Joe Chain is the only chain where no one lost a dollar.
Not a single person was down. No one got wrecked. No one got upset.
There was no community pool to grift, and every single person was down no one got wrecked no one got upset there was no community
pool to grift and every single person was happy even after the huge slashing event you know
what was it like one third of the token supply got slashed accidentally but no one cared because
we were still up we were up in social equity we didn't need profits
We were up in social equity.
We didn't need profits.
We were up in social equity.
Did anybody catch that?
Fucking social equity.
Oh, my good Lord.
Oh, my goodness.
You know what?
When Joe Chain reincarnates, it's not even going to pay out inflationary rewards.
We're not going to call them rewards.
We're going to call it vibes.
And all it's going to be is a push notification through the Kepler wallet.
And it's just going to say, GM, GM, fam.
That's going to be our rewards for the Joe chain.
I think what's quite evident, though, is, you know, first and foremost,
is that pretty much the vibe
i'm getting from the community is everybody wants to see stargaze survive i think we can all
establish that and be like none of us want to say stargaze like just disappear and go away right
jj made some good points on that now and like on the other hand we all like the like the team right
we all like shane we all like brady and them and zirken and them right hand we all like the like the team right we all like Shane we all like Brady
and them and Zirkin and them right they're all like pretty nice people good team to work with
you know like we wish them all the best but I think we also all know that like there's absolutely
no fucking chance in hell that this first like and I know it's only a prop convo, you know, a little debate before a prop actually goes up,
but the end game or the end, you know, offer whatever you want to call it, if it does come in,
is going to be so far removed from what we've just seen.
Will it be diluted to the point where, like, Shane just goes fuck it and throws the towel in?
I mean, is it going to have to get that long?
From what I understand, they have options, or at least they had options.
I know that like several months ago, I don't know if I'm supposed to say this,
but Solana approached Shane and wanted to buy the platform.
And he didn't want to recode everything.
So he didn't really take it that seriously.
I don't know if that would have worked or not. I don't know he wouldn't have to record that much cost
Solana's written in rust I don't know but there's only the more money the base
goal modules isn't that JJ that they would have to change right well there's
also all the libraries are different it's actually not just it's not a
simple version but yeah it's not it's not like going to solidity it's much easier than that but
yeah the compiler and that right the base the base uh infra but not the smart contracts right contracts, right? Yeah, but the libraries still would all be different.
Yeah.
Everything, no, no, Joe, I believe
the baseline infrastructure, obviously,
is all written in Golang, but it's
the small contracts that are written in Rust, right?
So what you're talking about is that after change
like that, basically,
five on it's got his hand up, he probably knows something.
No, not in this uh i just wanted the the show of hands of how many people in here like using kamagotchi like on an
issue or yami net because it's a roll-up on an issue um i never even heard of it it's like
tamagotchi pokemon uh it It's a really cool NFT game.
I highly suggest it.
Let me read some facts about it right now because there's a certain... It's been all over my feed for weeks.
Five on it.
This has been all over my feed for weeks now.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's getting to a point because there is a marketplace on Anisha
and a certain team runs it and it is not even connected to this.
But Yaminet makes more fees each day than Mantle, StarkNet, WorldChain, Scroll, Barachain, Sonium, Ink, Celestia, Metast, Blast, Sea, Filecoin, Phantom, Movement, Story.
Data's been taken from DeFi Llama.
This fucking game is eating everything's lunch, inner gaze isn't even fucking connected to it
Where I mean you got to go to pseudo swap to trade Kamagotchi and please go look at pseudo swap
It's fucking last time something was kicking off like that. It was a defy kingdoms wasn't it when defy kingdoms
To all
Decentraland itself, but holy shit you guys like why isn't inner gaze connected to that?
Joy you will mute the damn it why isn't intergaze connected to that joy you were muted there man
oh no i i was i just messaged five two or somebody to um drop that link i'll check that
out i'll play an nft game i i thought i was promised nft games in 2017 so it's about time
oh man i would have sold you my kamigachi there they're all sold out right
now that the game itself you need one of the Tamagotchis and it's an NFT and they're like
fucking 400 bucks right now maybe less damn I don't know right now I played Decentraland once
on a Chromebook and I thought that was like the pinnacle of web 3 innovation during all that feeding
your jinnies there was a testnet for kamagotchi and
like literally gave you a free one and a buy into their onyx token uh so i got a free one and then i
got a ticket to buy another and i just sold the last one i got the other day to buy a bunch of
quirks someone mentioned someone mentioned intergears there so i saw some comments on the prop
uh just obviously mentioning intergaze
But it sounded like a few people were a bit pissed off. Does anybody know what the background is behind us like what's
What's the story within the gears?
I don't know I don't know Shane saying they can include that too
But I didn't even think about that either. I think they're just trying to keep that separate.
But I don't know.
Like I said, there's a lot of stuff going on in Anisha.
And it doesn't feel like Innergaze is connected to any of it.
I mean, there's the Battle for Blockchain game as well that's a lot of fun.
It's kind of like Plants vs. Zombies.
What is Innergaze?
Can you explain it like the simplest term as possible for my brain?
It's Stargaze, but on Anisha.
Oh, okay. Can you explain it like the simplest term as possible for my brain? It's stargaze, but on a Nisha.
Oh, okay. So it's, hmm.
But is it still in development or is it still in development?
There's been multiple mints on it.
Three initial collections.
One of them is getting droplets multipliers.
Now the hungry ones and that art is really dope.
And then, uh, Yo-Yo just really scraps on it and it didn't even mint out and i mean it's it's kind
of weird in this market right now kamagotchi took two weeks to mint out and it's the most popular
out there so i'm really i mean it's just nfts are in a weird place i feel
so were people complaining sorry joe were people complaining that it's not going to be part of the deal, is that right?
Yeah, that's what I saw in the forums.
Sorry, Joe.
So, yeah, I never understood what Intergaze was.
So it's just a parallel marketplace on a different Cosmos chain.
That's not really a Cosmos chain.
Is that right?
Yeah, almost like an outpost, you could say, for want of a better word.
Right, JJ?
Yeah, that's my understanding of what Intergaze is,
is that it's just another stargaze outpost
so i wonder i wonder if they consider just moving everything over there if they had to
because like in the end the goal is to abandon the validator set right like
is that at its essence what we're talking here abandon the validator set abandon the token
and just just bring the nuts and bolts of stargeese someplace where it has a
longer a longer runway right i think they're looking for some type of if they can't just do
that and keep and keep the stars holders happy right there i mean if they do that and there's
no compensation they're thinking that they will have angry holders, right? And who's gonna go over there? Yeah, they're looking right
So it's not just wind the set down if they lose the stars token and and get rid of there
And they'll have a buyout then they they don't even have a way to fuel it
They need to stop the hemorrhaging of the token and keep and keep the token or get a buyout and lose the token
I think is their thinking
I mean, if for that ICF 721, if a front end for that can be implemented into Eureka, right,
or skip.go or whatever, that could probably take some off of Stargaze's plate
where they're not going gonna have to worry about
migrating collections and pissing people off with snapshots one of the things also shame brought up
was they don't really want to do that anyway because it's going to create a bunch of taxable
events so some people might get pissed about that uh i don't know how many people are a bridging
creates taxable events no if he was gonna if he was gonna burn and remint
um nfts on another chain um he wasn't the biggest fan of that but it's probably like the best
brute force way to do it but there are things to consider like what five brought up with dow
down there are staked nfts with treasuries some of the treasuries are in stars. It's like a big, a lot of fringe considerations.
But I think that ICS-721, that should be dropped right onto Eureka.
At the end, Eureka is just a swap bridge UI.
Why are we discriminating other token standards?
Like just any token standard that can be moved via IBC or
Axel or whatever if Eureka aims to become that one-stop shop for moving tokens and swapping tokens if it goes there
Then collectors can move their own shit when they're ready, I guess
Yeah, it finally keeps me up at night because we even got like fractionalized cutes over
on osmosis broken down into tokens.
What happens to those in the vault?
Does it just burn those and give them back to the original holder or does it go to the
osmosis vault where no one, I have no idea what the fuck's going on, you know?
It's gonna be really weird.
Like, does it reset our bridgeable capabilities once we get to adam and now we're just stuck on adam again
i know the homaneki thing is going to be kind of interesting we uh set up a dow uh using dowdow
on this using stars we don't have our treasury like sitting there uh in doubt or not um but that
that'll be super interesting as well
like what happens with all of those people it's gonna just flush people for sure dude
your treasury is just on a ledger wallet somewhere or yeah well yeah it's just on a wallet yeah it's
just it's no it's just yeah it's just on a wallet or or um a small portion of it you know bitcoins
and ethereum stuff and like that
you know are sitting on uh protocols like osmosis and stuff like that but nothing else like you
know it's not yeah but tank anybody anybody with like a decent like dow treasury though like they're
gonna have to go and like uh assemble the members and they're gonna have to like you know get
everybody to start voting on props to be able
to take action to start to like mitigate situations yeah you know i did i did uh again i'm not gonna
say like i knew it or nothing but i've always been kind of like really negative on mass voting and
people in general and stuff like that uh long tried the long story short uh with maneki like
luckily we put up a vote a while ago where it's like i can do
what i need to do and the people voted that uh so like i don't we don't we necessarily don't have to
as a as a group or whatnot so that's like a really great thing for us at least uh but yeah
it's still going to be like the way the way you you've got all three, you mean, you've got all Z you personally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, and, and, you know, I put it up the one time I put it up, uh, well, I guess twice I did.
Uh, and I told people like, Hey, you know, it's up to you guys.
You guys want me to be in all power or whatever, or do you guys want to actually do this governance, dumb thing?
And luckily everybody was like, nah, fuck it.
We don't want to do it.
Like you guys, you can do it.
So that was, that was really nice and stuff like that.
Um, but at the same time, like, I gotta be very honest. I was straight, no, fuck it. We don't want to do it. Like, you can do it. So that was really nice and stuff like that.
But at the same time, like, I got to be very honest.
I was straight up forthcoming with it.
Like, I bought all of my own Manekis and all this other stuff.
There was no, like, uneven playing field for sale.
Like, everybody had to purchase in, right?
At some point, it doesn't matter what the price point was when you bought it.
Like, the point of it is everybody had to spend to be in.
And everybody is.
And one of the things that I kind of like really thought about long term was like, okay, I know my conviction.
It's my project, obviously.
Like I knew what my intentions were and what I was going to do.
So I was like bullish on it no matter what.
Like I was going to buy it and stick with it.
Like didn't matter.
Didn't matter, right? And I knew that because I've seen it, I've been in cycles long enough that there are going to be people who speculate and are going to get people who just forget and
just drop off or whatever. I was banking that other people who are like me would benefit on
other people who just forget and get hurt and get wrecked. And like, like, I'm not trying to
take advantage of them, but it is what it is. Like, I'm also trying to hold your hand through
this as well. Like I'm, I'm in it just as much as you are in it. If you're not in it and paying attention, like that's on you, it's just
going to be more beneficial for everybody else long-term. Hopefully when things see the upside
that we're all hoping it sees. Right. And so people like Joe, people like myself, other people
who are holding Maneki V1s and stuff like that are going to benefit from situations like this like okay say stargaze
does whatever and people just are you know the sentiment out there for cosmos is like fuck it i
don't even care anymore well good that just reduced like the 70 people that are sick to like 20 and now
when the profit time comes it's just more for us you know it, it's kind of, it is what it is. The strong survive, baby.
Frick governance.
Like Joe said, fuck governance.
Addition by subtraction.
Exactly, addition by subtraction.
Go on, J.D.
Hey, so here's what I was thinking.
I don't have the answer.
So I know there's a lot of worry of what happens if these turn into or go EVM, right?
But can't DowDow just make an EVM hosted DAO? I mean, it doesn't. Why does everything have to change?
And also, from my understanding, the EVM is just the execution layer. It doesn't kill IBC, does it?
Like, it's just like, I don't know. I'm actually saying, like, I don't have to.
I think you're right. I think you're right.
Honestly, but a lot of people... Maybe somebody else
knows. Jamie, wait a minute.
On that note, Nour did make
a tweet the other day asking if he should
make sure that
DowDow was EVM
compatible. He did actually talk about this
the other day. I think five on it might have an update
on that front, but he did. Nour tweeted out day i don't i don't for dowdow specifically but the
entire dowdow team is building layers which is on evm i believe yeah so look so again it's there's a
lot of uh i feel i always feel like this always happens especially on crypto twitter not in this
group right now but just like when you read it. Everyone gets like so fearful of like, oh, it's all going to go away.
No, everything's – everyone just needs to like have a second to make the new adjustments, right?
The new course.
No, no, JG, JG, JG, don't say that out loud though because I want other people to freak out.
Like remember my position is beneficial if other people do freak out.
people do freak out but look again but tank but let's get back to the real thing because if we
could get you know two or three hundred new people interested in minekis how much more valuable would
your minekis be worth is that that's the flip side instead of going from 50 to 20 and having
your stake go up is it more valuable to go from 50 to 200 new interested 300 I don't know what I'm just making
up numbers right like but is that that's the other end of the metric that I think is more it's fun
it's more fun it's more fun and if we get it going that way right I don't know definitely definitely
okay JG trying not to say grow the pie because he doesn't want to sound like a fucking nerd like a
cosmos nerdy saying it he's saying it the pleb way that we can understand say grow the pie because he doesn't want to sound like a fucking nerd, like a Cosmos nerd.
He's saying it the pleb way that we can understand better.
Grow the pie.
Well, I'm definitely a fan of the pie growing.
I like to share pie, right?
It's more fun to eat pie with friends.
Fuck it.
No, but to your point, if Maneki could even add like 10 super valuable holders,
because I would like to meet Tank actually
and throw some ideas around for both Maneki collections
now that I've got like a clear head.
But yeah, if we could add,
Maneki is built so that even like adding five or 10 new people
who are, you know quote-unquote lazy
or passive it would it would boost the collection tremendously five or ten people even
and if they're girls that's even better
for sure that's like the other thing that
Cosmos did a terrible job.
They couldn't have been less,
I don't want to say less cool, because I don't think I'm cool,
but no chicks were
coming around those faces.
Oh, shit.
It's really funny.
JT, looking at this, logically,
if I just take my head out of the game right
and say like you know like if i just totally look at it from a logical sense like you guys are kind
of like coming out like this is kind of beneficial for you really isn't it i know what you were
seeing earlier and blah blah blah and you know you want to see everybody grow every pie right but
if you like look at it logically and you think yourself if you recreate the fact that these two
uh not props but discussions are up right essentially you you are actually coming out
of this a little bit winning aren't you am i right in thinking that i mean i think so because you
know this is there's definitely discussion and energy and people are interested and Backbone is just kind of cruising, wanting to do our own thing.
So to us, it's definitely a boost.
We have a lot of, again, I think the cosmos is actually a really active place.
I think we're about to launch our own token as like a clapback because we're tired of being at the mercy and whim of any chain
right so that's the reason why we're actually doing our token and we're and and we're pairing
like pretty much all of the revenue that we generate into it like and we're just going to
open market by it like fuck fuck these all weird otc deals and fuck burning tokens burning tokens
never adds value to anything first of all but we're just going to do as many real services
all over the cosmos and EVM.
And we're going to just drive value straight back
into our token on the open market.
I think at this point, it's just like,
you got to have like a community of communities.
You got to set up battle stations.
How are you going to make it ahead in crypto?
How are you going to do this?
Well, you know what?
It's like, we got it.
We got it.
We got it.
I don't know.
It's like, I'm tired.
Like there's a lot of energy on these and great ideas on these VC chains.
Fantastic.
But the problem is, is that, you know, just because you have a great idea doesn't mean
you don't have to financially manage a chain.
And a lot of times most of them go to shit, right? So how do we be able to participate in activities and still
capture value to something that is really for the community by the community is what Backbone's
trying to do right now. So again, it's like Stargaze needs to do their thing. They need to
keep activity going. I want Initia doing their thing. I want Celestia doing their thing. I want, you know, Osmosis doing their thing. I want Prism
doing, I want Backbone participating. And I want us to be able to just be able to do what we want
to do too, right? So people need to throw their ideas against the wall. People need to raise,
they need to have fun. They need to throw these parties, do events. This kind of
shit has to happen. It's just networking, right? And again, we don't even have to have the best
tech. We really don't. Having the best tech means shit. It's the people that are having fun.
That's the fucking bottom line, right? Everybody keeps talking about all these problems, all this.
Bro, there's not problems. There's's only possibilities and we need to start having fun and doing engaging shit otherwise again it
becomes just nothing and that's why most nft communities that start go to nothing because
they stop being interesting they stop having a thing that holds them together right so
i think it's really important robo to always be thinking of a solution, not not, you know, thinking of the hang ups or the problems.
Like, you know, right now we all say the problem is 14 million dollar ask.
That's a hurdle. So they all need to come together.
A community need to come together and just start talking about solutions.
We should all just be talking about ways that we're bringing people into Adam, into Cosmos, if that's your mission.
Right. Like if that's your mission, right?
Like, if that's what you think is a good thing, that's what you should be doing.
I don't want to say anybody should be doing anything, but to me, I've been a Cosmos junkie a long time.
I really believe that it's easier to start a project, maybe even as an app chain and, like, build out your thesis and then migrate to a bigger chain. I don't know what the model is,
but there's value in being able to start up these sovereign ideas quickly.
Right?
Like there,
there is that we've seen it.
So even Stargaze is,
you know,
they built a great platform as an app chain thesis and now they need to
maybe figure out a different option.
And,
and I'm sure that they will.
And that's the whole thing.
I'm sure that they will. And I'm sure that we're all going to move forward but we got to move forward together
i don't want to keep having so much division and so much uh i don't know there's i feel again
i get it it's grow the pie it's grow the pie mentality right like are we being inclusive
are we are we helping each other are you know these types of
things this is what needs to start occurring i get it and i'll tell you what i did i wanted to
bring something up and i wanted to ask tank a particular question but joe's got his hand up
so we'll get joy and then i'm gonna ask you a lot of questions but i'm gonna focus on tank as a
business owner as well go ahead joe um I think that JG is so optimistic.
It's almost like he sold all of his Cosmos airdrops at the top.
That's like how optimistic he is.
Like he got Netta and sold it at $40,000.
He's like, we're all together.
Grow the pie.
I love Stargaze, my biggest competitor.
But what I was going to say was it's just ironic that for the last two years,
everyone's been complaining.
There's too many chains.
There's too many chains.
There's too many chains.
And then now we have like the first example of consolidation.
And people are like, but the market cap of the token is too low.
We can't do this.
It's just very ironic.
And probably it's because they're doing this publicly when they probably maybe shouldn't do
this publicly you know so they should have got from like point a to point b before presenting
i agree i tell you what i agree with that a hundred percent a lot of a lot of early negotiations
could have gone on behind closed doors and then maybe something a bit more solid could have gone
up for discussion where some of these like pain points
were ironed out to to then facilitate a much like easier conversation do you know what i mean yes
yeah i knew about this like six months ago and i just didn't hear anything about it and then when
i saw the recent tweets and stuff like from like april i was like just assuming that they did have
a good amount of discussions behind closed doors,
but it sounds like, um, sounds like, no, they had, they did not. And it would, I guess Shane
was just told, put a prop up because either way, no matter what, this has to pass governance on
two chains, but the odds of this happening are like not 50, 50, I don't think, you know, maybe
like 70, 30. And now I don't know. I don't know. You know, maybe like 70-30. I don't know, do I think the Stargaze side
of the prop will go through fairly easy?
I think it might be Adam's side
that's going to be the stickling point.
Maybe.
My thing is, though, with Stargaze,
Stargaze is a weird position because,
you know, I think one of you guys was saying
how, like, the token holders are not going to be happy
if they just like went
to initiate or whatever whatever the issue was but are the token holders more important than the nft
collectors and the creators they they have they have a tiered group of users where like number one
are the actual artists and creators who are driving forward like new nft collections and then
for me number three the passive star stakers i don't think that i this is not going to go over
well i don't think they can they should get shit because they just sat there passively staking
tokens if they've never traded an nft and a lot of validators haven't then why are they
why are they the first consideration for
for who gets paid out when when if and when there's a merger i think that's backwards for an nft
platform i think that's i'm not gonna lie that's brilliant i didn't even think of that so
so let's recap i don't think anyone's thought of that we're gonna reset the room first for if you
guys just came in what you missed was that decentralization is for nerds decentralization and number two the token holders well come on
let me get me question out for tank right and then we'll follow up with you lot so tank you're
a business owner right uh stargaz is essentially a business right now when when i saw you know the the cell i think
it was the salaries or whatever it was for the first uh 12 months or whatever right for the team
so what i what i would ask myself and i think every business owner should do is if your business is
struggling you pull your belt in right so you know you'll see it on like shark tank and that all the
time where they'll talk about you know where sales dip during covid and they were you know, you'll see it on like Shark Tank and that all the time where they'll talk about, you know, where sales dip during COVID and they were, you know, they got rid of the house and they were sleeping on the factory floor or they took a 50% salary cut.
Like as a business owner tank, when the shit gets difficult, you pull your belts in a little bit and you all have to make sacrifices for the good of trying to drive the business forward, which you believe is like the right thing to do.
for the good of trying to drive the business forward,
which you believe is like the right thing to do.
Does it appear as if it's business as normal in regards to like the,
the, the support that the team is going to get salary wise?
Like it seems as if there's no, no belts being pulled in.
Right.
Yeah.
It's, you know, and every business is different.
So I can't speak to the normalcy of of that practice in general but a
lot of times like yeah you know like you as a business owner will probably be like i can't
i can't you know pay myself i got to pay my team and stuff like that to keep this business going
and due to x y b like we'll have a better month next month and try to make it up but like yeah
it's just it's it is kind of weird man it's kind of weird what is it for a team of like 68 people
is what 180k a month or something is it i can't remember the exact figures it's a decent amount
though right and i think half a technical and half a non-technically said i think four and four or
something right yeah i don't i don't know i don't i can't speak on like what their team is made up
and i i really don't know man I've never really doled it.
Dole.
He said in the comments,
half were technical and half were non-technical,
like community managers and stuff like that.
Like people like Brady.
The first thing you're going to get rid of is the ones you don't need.
Do you like,
you know,
he hires artists to do a lot of the PR and like comms and stuff,
which is,
which is,
I think smart for an NFT platform, you know? So yeah, I think there's other things. ICL needs to look at the team case by case
and say, you know, what sacrifices are you willing to make? I think the whole thing is moot though,
because we're still talking about this in, in, in terms of Adam price. I think they need to price
everything in USDC. And if this goes through on the hub, it's the hub that's selling Adam for USDC in order to meet the demands of Stargaze.
It's not the Stargaze holders who are coming over from Stargaze to now transact on the hub selling Adam.
Because that's not what's happening.
That's what's going to happen in practice if they get paid out in Adam.
I think that everyone needs to understand this is a community pool spend.
This is going to put pressure on Adam, and I don't think it should get priced in Adam.
Of course.
And so if you actually look about what's available directly compared to what's going to be sort of vested,
there is a major selling pressure.
I mean, look, people have to pay bills.
Those salaries have to be paid for like people have got to keep the lights on all salaries all salaries if salaries
are getting paid in the native token that that's an expense that goes against revenue inflation is
an expense community pool spends if they didn't come directly for inflation you don't want to
count it twice i I get that.
That's an expense.
Anything you pay for development is an expense.
Any grants are an expense.
These are all expenses.
No, no.
Well, the inflation, we just said it's nearly game over.
The inflation.
And also, doesn't STARS have a huge community pool?
That should not be considered in the um in the supply
that's going to get paid out that should just be treated as nothing that that's zero dollars in my
mind or if your chain is not doing well the community pools is worth zero to me so they
shouldn't i think they have like a fifth of their supply in the community pool that should come off
the top they they need i've only got a shit ton deployed as liquidity as well though through the liquidity
that's zero that should not be that should not be part of the buyout if you want to deploy
the deployed quake so the the uh the dow the liquidity dow has deployed quite a bit of liquidity
elsewhere right like the astroport all over the place right they did a they did a big token swap
with osmosis at genesis i just don't
know what that's worth now it's probably not worth much no that was a loan no no it was a it was a
doubt a doubt loan that one that's that's different there's no that's all clear i've
not about they've uh they've got liquidity like deployed they've got liquidity on m is it mc
mc ex or whatever it's called you know know that platform they've got liquidity there they've
got liquidity on i don't know i mean there's not much on osmosis it's like you know maybe
i think it was like 150 000 in stars which is again like if that's quote-unquote protocol
on liquidity there should not be a one-for-one swap into atom or whatever for that month that's
that's to me if you think that your community pool
is worth something but you're seeking a deal like this then why don't you just use your community
pool to bail yourself out and the answer is because nobody can sell their community pool funds adam can
to an extent but in the end wait a minute wait a minute they've just done they've just done 26
grand in trading in volume in the last 24 hours like who's gonna buy the cooking community pool
people people are betting on the um on the buyout get paying them four to one so
it's um you'll see some volatility in the stars price for sure
let's say welcome psx got more people and i say cuteers back with us he's changed accounts more on psx maybe
hey good morning oh man so we're still hung up on the uh sorry gays cosmo hug consolidation and um
where are they at with not not so much hung up on it i think the prop only went up the other day and i think this is probably the first space where we've actually tried to thrash out as much of it as we possibly can like so what's your take uh well i mean i i
have more questions because like i don't know like does anybody know if there's been a um
like any other um chains outside of cosmos uh consolidations that's ever taken place because
i don't know what kind of,
how would you structure a kind of deal or?
There's not much precedent for this at all.
Other than you could look at the Evmos,
Evmos license was bought by the hub.
I don't know if you could figure out the exact amount,
but if you guys look,
and this was brought to my attention by none other, the deplorable Ray Raspberry,
it looks like $40 million left the icf a month before they made the deal with evmos so i don't know if that
and you know why you know why that's even more shocking is because they have funded the original
uh ether mint back in the day that became evmos right so that's weird but they funded it in the
fucking first place and then they've re-b so that's weird but they funded it in the first place and then
they've re-bought the thing back that they funded originally i know obviously there was a lot of
work done on it but that was exactly what it was it was ether mint back in the day and the
the icf funded the ether mint right
not not my listen i'm just a user of blockchain I don't know about all the politics involved, but what I do know is the ICF has traditionally
funded and invested in lots of competing products with the hub and has a history now, if you
want to say history of buying failed projects with this Evmos purchase or this Evmos licensing
agreement.
I don't know i don't know
what it would be categorized that and that's another reason why i find it hilarious at the
recoil to this prop put up by by stargaze um we'll see like i said i don't have confidence that
there's enough gray matter over on the atom side to make a reasonable deal i think there's like a
60 to 70 chance that stargaze and the hub
go their separate ways this will be good for something like superbolt something like arc
something like um backbone labs but there's hope and people there are a lot of people holding
thousands of nfts that hope stargaze gets like a second life so yeah well i mean because i i know
that there's more users with
stargaze on the cosmos uh cosmo hub and i'm in the back of my mind i'm thinking why doesn't
stargaze just try to consolidate um consolidate cosmos hub over to them i mean sounds a bit
counterintuitive but with with a more with a more with a higher user base it seems like
stargaze has got got the bigger leverage here.
And it feels like...
They're broke.
They do, but they're running out of money, it seems.
I'm at like $300 million.
Who has more leverage?
I mean, what are we talking about?
Wait, wait, wait.
Who's got leverage here?
If it's not user base, then what's going on then?
I think that's the card that the Stargaze team is going to play.
And I agree with what you're saying.
But what they could do, if it was all about cutting costs and maybe eliminating the token,
what they could do is go down to one validator, either PSS or not,
and they could try to build out the Eureka front end and make Stargaze this interchain nft hub where everything gets swapped you know
through one ui where you could go to you could literally go to eureka go to skip.go there's a
button for click stargaze it brings you to the platform and it you're just you're minting nfts
in any token that you have whether it's solana whether it's wrapped eth on osmosis whether it's whatever um alloy bullshit
token or lp you should be able to mint nfts in every token in cosmos otherwise ibc is an utter
failure you should be able to mint nfts and lp tokens from astroport but you can you can but
these take relayers bro it's not like it's right but it's in the platform's interest to run their
own relayers like if stargate but that's But it's in the platform's interest to run their own relayers.
But that's just expensive, right?
Just so you understand, that's why these validators, people who validate, usually run relayers if they can.
But that is a cost that is burdened by the person running the – it's a whole thing.
It can happen, but there needs to be stuff.
I see that, but that needs to get factored
into the cost of decentralization as well
that I was talking about before.
So maybe the...
If Stargaze is the only validator on their own chain
and they're running the relayers,
therefore they have a lot more skin in the game
than simply a brand new chain spinning up,
airdropping a bunch of bullshit tokens to their insiders,
and then just playing the whole, you know whole slow cash out over a vesting schedule game.
Stargaze, there's no way an established chain can get away with that.
They need to sell equity,
or they need to leverage their equity in some way.
The Stargaze team could basically raise the fees,
collect all those fees themselves
eliminate their validator set and run their own relayers and if and then hope that you know
they're in the green enough to stay alive that's got to be an option
hey it sounds like it sounds like um stargaze has got a brand equity uh user base but i mean jd you mentioned that they were running out of money
which i think they are i think i think they are and um they have everything that cosmos doesn't
have so it makes sense that the hub is going to pursue them for what price we don't know but 13
million dollars like let's just say it ends up being eight eight or nine million the hub can do
a lot the hub can do a lot worse
with their community pool right let's be honest let's say what's up cutie pie uh well really i
was just gonna elaborate on the eureka idea because i'm finding some some struggles myself
as of like yesterday uh so i take a stargaze collection our original
collection and i i cs721 bridget to neutron yesterday and i'm able to see a lot of stuff
in dowdow because of the way it works but um there's there's three types of nfts there's there's
an nft collection that runs dual ipfs you know one for the image and one for all the metadata and there's one that has like Superbolt where the metadata itself is on chain
Image is IPFS and then you have inscriptions where image and metadata is on chain only
Stargaze runs dual IPFS the metadata isn't on chain as far as I know and so when I move
Qt's one over to neutron super Bolt can't find the metadata on-chain
and therefore there's a whole big
fucking mess of
like, we need ICS-721 to be able
to, I guess, move the
Stargaze metadata on-chain before I can
actually list on Super Bolt 2.
So there's still a lot of things that, like
technical hurdles I think we're gonna have.
Doing multi-chains
is really complicated.
That's the truth.
I mean, to give a true
multi-chain experience to service
a bunch of different chains at the same
time, it's fucking hard.
It's not an easy thing to do as a
provider.
I just feel like it's...
Yeah, yeah.
I really wanted to move and start listing Qt's as soon as I could.
So I'm like, look, look, they're on Neutron.
And he's just like, yeah, but...
And so I know ARK is actually working on this.
And I just really hope they jump on that
because I think you can see a lot of...
I think they are.
Yeah, I want to say they put a...
There was a proposal that was put out
yesterday or a couple of days ago.
I know Mr. T was given a bit of grief about it.
about it. I don't even understand why.
I don't even understand why.
They have a pretty damn good track record.
They have a pretty damn good track record.
it feels like too many people,
too many voices are talking past each other.
And it's, even for me, on the outside,
just trying to navigate through the conversations.
I don't even know where to look.
Yeah, I said earlier this weekend
that that forums post feels kind of like a fight
over who owns the bridges, but now they're really toll roads, maybe? Yeah, I mean, I said earlier this weekend that that forms post feels kind of like a fight over who owns the bridges, but now they're only toll roads, maybe.
Yeah, I mean, I'm shooting from the wayside just as much as you are.
But going back to the Stargaze Cosmo Hub situation, I mean, you know, and Joe, who was in here earlier, you there's there's no precedent on on how you go about
this or what the best practice is or how do you structure a good deal um i mean i don't understand
why like stargaze doesn't just go to a like and i know jg's gonna hate me for saying this but
a vc maybe or an angel investor you know because they've got nothing of value because they've got nothing of like
we said this earlier you can't stargaz can't go out there and do a raise man
like what are you going to put on the line what are you going to put on the line sweat equity
IP I mean think about what the offering is for a fucking VC
I mean I don't know.
That's why I'm at that.
I've got more questions than I have answers.
Sweat equity?
Sweat equity is something, but
it's hard.
I get it. It's hard to sell
a VC
tech when there's like
I think the
turnover is like 80 90 percent
like you're gonna have to do your vc raise on a front end right
that's basically the only ip that they've got isn't it uh i mean i don't know how diversified
they are but i would imagine that yeah it's the only one they've got well i mean they i mean
here's here's what you know i was just thinking about this it's a little strange that they
actually have like a competing product inner gaze but they're going to sell this package to the community pool but then
still manage and develop a competing marketplace i don't i think that's a little bit strange i think
if there is a buyout then there shouldn't there should be a no compete clause on other platforms
if they stop working on the stargaze one right i think it's a little strange yeah well g what why doesn't like
i mean it seems like backbones has got a better shot at taking over no offense to anybody at
stargaze but i'm just saying but there was no wait a minute jg spot on there jg there was no
kind of division of resources in regards to what will be split between like sort of
of resources in regards to what will be split between like sort of uh intergears stargaze
etc it was just like some wasn't it some line about we'll continue to work on on intergears
or something like that but no like like definitive like division of resources or time
yeah i didn't i didn't see anything uh signaling that but again again, this is why they put something up on forum.
We just need to discuss it.
I'm sure it'll be brought
up, you know. But yeah, it's just a little
strange that it was not addressed.
Do you know,
PSX was mentioned in Summit there. You know what
though? The Cosmos Hub
have got a terrible track
record history of trying trying to like deliver
clearly roys right so can anybody tell me anything that uh aadow funded have we ever had any roi on
any of that cosmoverse cosmoverse for the last four years have we terrible is an understatement man
you know i'll be honest with you and it's no offense to anyone on the cosmos uh hub team but it's been frankly less than amateur you know like i've seen lts outperform them
You know, like I've seen L2s outperform them.
It's like, seriously?
It's like, I feel like I'm dealing with a bunch of fucking kids. you have to give us a second fellow while i jump in 7-eleven a minute i'm going to wind
this down anyway because it's been recorded and we uh i want to keep the hard stuff on
tape so that we get some uh some listens and we get some feedback from people like uh i'll tell you what that would be a good point to kind of wind it down before we wind
it down like anything oh go on come on cute just went ahead and pinched something in the nest
regarding all that inner gaze talk because i already knew where it was and so
what on what's going to happen to indig indicate if the takeover goes ahead you mean i mean it's just it's one of the forum posts in terms of open discussion on it
so just before we kind of conclude are we all i think we're all in agreement that this is
a an extremely uh aggressive like opening position, right?
For a negotiating route.
I think we're all in agreement about that, right?
This might just be an
aggressive OP.
A lot of us
think that maybe...
It seems natural to just come out swinging
ass high, see where you guys land later
with the discussions and stuff like that. That's what I think
Shane is doing with it. I mean, you know, what, what do you, what do you, what do we all
expect them to do? Like I, if I was in his position, I'd be like, yeah, 14, 15 mil. And
then expecting and knowing that people are going to go eight, you know, let's go eight. And then
they're going to dwindle that down to like maybe five or six with some parameters or, you know,
things set forth that, that we should. And I think that's the funny thing too. Like I made a video and I was like, delete it. I don't,
I don't really need to post this and stuff like that. But I just think it's funny to come out
swinging super aggressively like that. But at the same time, I can kind of really, I can see it
like, you know, cause I think ultimately that's, what's going to happen. They'll go back and forth
a couple of times. We'll get to like eight or six with some uh with some uh negotiated uh terms set forth where like
you know some unlocks happen we don't give it all in one go and i think we shouldn't give it all in
one go like hey if it is what it is like prove it you know and i know people are gonna be like
shane's been proving it for a long time well let's prove it for the atom token like maybe it worked
for a minute for them but like again this is a different scenario prove it if it if it happens
we'll give you two mil three mil now we'll give you half of it or whatever it is uh
like say they land at six we'll give you half of it uh put some parameters set forth the actual
retention gets uh saved and users actually start increasing and the transactions are there and it
actually is profitable like like they're saying it is like sure we'll start unlocking the other
parts and you know we'll go about that way but i don't know it's all good it's all negotiations support uh super bowl support
backbone labs that's where i'm going i got a lot of stuff i'm sorry i'm not trying to say but
yeah it's come across tonight that there's going to be several sticking points like it's not just
a one issue or a it's like there's virtually an issue with every point across the board in regards
to the monetary calculations whether that's a custom acquisition cost whether that's the ip
by proxy regarding like bad kids and sloths etc uh the license for the front end and you know
is the team like willing to pull their belt in for like the first 12 months to try and make this a success and that by default therefore reduce the ask there's this i don't know i'm not getting i'm not doing uh shade on shape damn i
can't say that shade on shane try to say that fast um i don't know you know he's gonna be like i
haven't i haven't sold any of my tokens i'm one of those but whose fault is that dude you know
like come on i know you've been pulling in your belt respectively on your own person,
but like you, we gotta be realistic on stuff.
Like at some point you were supposed to be, you're supposed to be, you know,
paying yourself and, and, and taking profits and stuff like that. But yeah,
I think, I think that's the way to go, man. Again, let's go.
I think what's an interesting one as well is,
and it happened on the space that they did when they did the big space to announce that they were going to put the problem and then i think it's
announced at the beginning of the prop isn't it about the uh the hit that they took on liquidity
from one of the uh previous like ex uh founders we all know who it's obviously talking about but
you know this happened like how long ago and it's been reflected in like today's conversation and
i didn't think you can really be like well we got seven million in liquidity plundered back in the early days
if it's been around since i know but it i know that i know that but if it's if it's been around
since like late 2021 and we're talking we're in like mid 2025 like even like a liquidity event like that considering the fact that the
protocol's been able to soldier on you'd think that that would be kind of like old news now and
wouldn't be in the like the current cycle of what's happening but actually it is in the
current cycle where it maybe shouldn't be you know again not on anybody i'm just fucking stating it like
like no i think it might be a problem from three or four years ago yeah no i think it's a fair
criticism i mean i think being in cosmos for as long as i have or more or less more like tank but
just just just just seeing how business is conducted it feels like each milestone taken it's always short
lived it's like hey we hit a milestone and market it out and then i'm in my head thinking like what's
next it's like you got these roadmaps that come out left and right whether it be from an l1 or
an l2 and it's like you know there's there's additional problems within another set that
comes uh that comes out that sets them back you know whether it's additional problems within another set that comes out that sets them back,
you know, whether it's like, hey, what it was initially meant to hit Q2 is now being pushed
back to Q3 or Q4. And it's really hard, especially in an ecosystem that's, I think,
I would imagine is still in its experimental stage. It's really hard to deliver on those
promises and that too often that these individuals for
as long as they've been in a profession of development is that they haven't figured out
how to, I don't know, under promise and over deliver. So we're stuck back in the cycle again
of just like canning each other. That's just me. I'm not even trying to start shade i mean like you know you know it it's a hard
lesson learned but i don't think anyone's actually learned it yet you know like i mean
crypto is still technically in its infant stage and there's a lot a lot of things that we're still
learning here
do you know that customer acquisition cost i just had a quick like i couldn't remember the exact number off the prop but if you if you take it as 20 000 so they're saying the active monthly users
20 000 right and i think they've calculated or just took a rough shot guess at the custom
acquisition cost being like 150 so that's like that's a clean that's a
clean three million though added like the asking price right wait wait you're saying
you said 20 000 uh daily um monthly users yeah yeah it's been calculated at 20 000 150
customer cost that's not a lot yeah i that's not exactly an impressive well
they did a comparison with like magic eden and blur and i think like uh blur was like
2 800 or something magic eden was like nearly five grand a customer or something okay
five grand wait wait you said five grand per customer magic eden yeah yeah five grand that
was just in cost per customer yeah that's what's stated in the prop that's all i'm saying that's
what's in the pro where did you get five grand per customer or no no no no wrong question um
how did they come up with uh five grand no no he's done the calculations like based on like things like the airdrops blah
blah blah i mean that's i'd probably counter that i mean i i don't know i mean that's just like i
don't have i mean i don't i really don't this is me this is me I don't speak for anybody else but I don't
I don't really much care for airdrops so I don't know where do you assess that value I mean because
like anytime you say airdrops like great it's an inflated number come up with a number
well the whole the whole props made up of the token value at an exchange obviously like four
well it's not four to one is it starts it's gone up a little bit but it's like about
it's just over like three to one or something uh multiply the one on the token price
then there's a customer acquisition cost which is like three odd million so i think it's like 12
million nearly 13 million for the token 3 million acquisition
costs or whatever then the team and the licenses that's where the ass comes I think it's just
over 15 mil or something is it cute chunk?
I don't know dude.
I have an art degree not an MBA no one should be asking me these kind of questions
all right so it's like a three three point something multiplier three three million
customer acquisition and then the other little bits on top i think it's just like just shy or
just over 15 million something like that which is a lot of money from a community pool
last like isn't it like like joe was saying earlier this is a community pool ask right
like that's a deep and size amount for a community pool asking
one sitting isn't it for one protocol
is it enough to cover everything
like tank says it's just aggressive as it's like throwing something at the wall and saying what sticks that there's this i'll tell
you what i'd be i'd be well surprised if anything over four to five mil was even considered
what's going to if we were to like do the math how many earthquakes is this buyout
it's gonna land at six i'm telling you right It's going to land at six.
I'm telling you right now.
If it does land at anywhere, it's going to land around six.
It's like Turkey.
Okay.
So if it happens on, say, the first round of talks,
we're going to know who's a really shitty negotiator.
That's all I know.
Oh, dude. we're gonna know like who's a really shitty negotiator that's all i know oh dude if it doesn't go through at least two different edits like i'm just i give up like i just give up i'm
serious i think it should land somewhere between six or seven i would be totally okay with that
uh i don't think like i i don't know if it's gonna happen but realistically i think it should
land around six or seven you're not trying to set anybody's expectations right one thing there's
absolutely no way that the users will take a haircut though right there the token holders
like the one thing that they've actually got to get out of this deal which is more important than anything is to at least make make token holders like 100 whole there ain't
anybody going to be taking a haircut after like what they've seen with the depreciation of the
token price and stuff no one's going to take a haircut on that absolutely not so making making
anybody holes out of the question then
Yeah, I was gonna say that they're making any like that's not gonna happen
It's just how much how short of a haircut are we going are we going to a one are we going to like what are we doing?
Yeah, it's like you better pray pray to God like this swap out like give me a ball
well, well at least two X
their position but i i making a whole making
anybody whole is just out of the question it's just not going to happen
well that will piss off a lot of people uh it's it's it's a trade-off like you know the end if
you do the end if you don't but you know like it's you know they should have thought about this
like when they for when they decided like hey we're gonna go ahead and do an acquisition it's, you know, they should have thought about this. So like when they, when they decided to like, Hey, we're going to go ahead and do an acquisition.
It's like, well, all right. But, you know,
what about those who are holding, you know, and if,
and if it's not doable and you, and you don't see a way,
way out or there's another, another value offering, you know,
somebody is going to get screwed out of the deal.
So the question that I'm asking is like, what's taken priority?
Is it the holders or is it this acquisition?
Because to be honest, it's like with anything like,
for example, like if a company's when their stock value goes so low and,
you know, and that's what their their business model
structure around it's like yeah the stockholders are going to get screwed
i think uh i think magma made a good point as well though when he was talking about like m and a's in
blockchain don't actually happen that often uh especially not like uh one chain essentially buying out what is already like
another chain right and he was saying like it's extremely like there's a lot of friction right
so it's not i mean it's not just about the money side of things it's based around the
technical friction side of things as well like that's going to be like a major part in
any decision or any endorsement that the atom like team or icl team must be thinking
about right gang cute i think the kid i think the real funds can be in the community politics
you're gonna see a lot of dumb opinions as far as buyout and making the holders good um i think
everyone should really think about how that price was leaked and whether or
not it was intentional, whether or not the person who leaked it was intentional, or if they knew
they would by telling them. But obviously, these talks are a few months old as far as merger goes,
and something poisoned that pill to cause a couple major validators dump all their stars and everything like that and if you're
looking for a really eventful monday that leaker has just made a big vocal post in the uh in the
forums and i cannot wait to see what's said somebody's angry oh no no shane's very vocal
about it he thinks uh steak cedo leaked that uh the merger was
happening a few months ago and that's what caused the the price to dump all of a sudden
so uh and there's there's someone who just left steak cedo wow
that wouldn't surprise me at all like that would not surprise me one little bit
no shock there yeah yeah i mean you see them say oh adam's coming to the hub star starts dumping and that person that went and made that public when it's you know in the middle of
buyout talks which is something you don't do in a corporate environment
uh suddenly leaving that place i think some heads rolled even
yeah this is going to get fun.
Don't you love tech drama?
I'm just kind of happy.
Like I said when I first got in here,
I think Mercury upgraded us leaving the ICS.
It's now we're not involved.
It doesn't concern neutrons,
and I just get to sit back and I'm like that kid taking the dab
during the girl fight. I get to sit back and i'm like that kid taking the dab during the girl fight i get to watch it and laugh
oh my gosh yeah it's gonna be interesting next few months to see where this is gonna go um
i mean my guess is good as anybody else's as far as I don't know.
I, you know, after Eureka, then what, you know, after this consolidation, then what?
What's next?
If you wanted my like true vision, what I thought about in August, like we have a doubt proposal prop where we where we went out and I said, should I go get ICS 721 enabled?
out and i said should i go get ics 721 enabled and and it voted yes and i always thought you
And it voted yes.
know we could still keep that collection on stargaze and that would be its home its province
chain and you'd be able to move as a holder not as a creator not as a collector but if you held
my collection you could go to omniflix you could go to super bolt for nft5 you could you could
literally go to the backbone labs or anywhere the fuck you wanted and it shouldn't be my choice on where you want to take your cute and sell it on a marketplace you know uh right stupid
or you should go use it on osmosis and and i still think that's the vision and i think all three
teams on adam need to work on making that a public good like a usb fucking standard on how nfts move
about the hub and hold on a second but you would think though you would think they've been
oh my god this is how they've been that way and i think i think there's some politics that we've
never heard about that made it okay everyone wants to meet the full road uh my my my view yeah okay
all right not to go on on another ramp but my views on on some of these behaviors have been
like anything but pro-consumer.
I mean, there's only really two teams that I've seen,
and this is not to prop up JG,
but I am kind of prop,
like the two teams that I've seen so far
that have been really proactive with community and consumers
and been very friendly was Backbone Labs
and the Art Protocol.
I would think that politics aside,
I don't know.
A Dow funded Super Bowl,
and you can list,
or you can just turn Adam on on the site,
and it will set everything to Adam right now.
Right now.
My collection, Corks,
you can list collections as such,
and you don't have to set it to a denomination. The itself doesn't have to say only sell my collection is one thing, but
There's a marketplace that's doing Adam right now as a whole and it should be seen that way
I don't think anybody's disagreeing with you
I think the question is like why hasn't he been
gotten uh what why aren't we even there do you know what this like I never even thought about
this but there's got to be collections that are going to be left for dead uh because there are
collections that have migrated I'm just thinking of like say racks for example right the raccoon fm uh nfts so like there's still uh about what is
like over 350 360 or whatever like on secret but essentially if stargaze migrates then unless there
were literally like people like rack would go and create like a new bridge there's never going to be
a chance of those nfts ever going on to stargaze now is that so like there's a few migrations took place
right that's what art is cool about all i did for arc for my application i don't know how it is now
i think it's a dow thing but i i literally just gave them one of my nfts on stargaze gave them
the collection address and they said cool we'll hit you up in a few weeks and they they eventually
did and they said here's the contract address for osmosis here's the
contact address for neutron um we don't have the neutron bridge working yet but give us a few and
i went and checked it yesterday and it works great uh you can find us on neutron now um i just i wish
we could get listed on super bowl i want to see arc get some love mate like i said i want to see
stargaze arc and i guess even Backbone Labs.
And I've said lots of bad shit about Backbone Labs. But I mean, it's just, I think it's up to the market to decide. And just don't pick a favorite. Let the holders decide where they
want to go, but open up the bridges. Don't make them toll roads. And it seems like a form post,
you know. I like that. Open up the bridges yeah shane wants to
take management of the evm arc has ics 721 and it just feels like they want to hold it because
that's where the users they're pricing this whole thing in the users they want to keep us they don't
want us to move freely about it feels like yeah that would kind of like make sense to a degree
right i mean have they been receptive to that
kind of feedback yeah you daily active users and and that's their metric on what does better
just watch uh the funniest show ever like silicon valley where they're like oh yeah
we have to have more users blah blah blah these oh no these users are bots
well i mean if you want more users yeah I mean, open up the, you got, oh my God, you know, if you would, I didn't even know, like, I didn't even know the bridges were somewhat limited to where users can go.
We're closing the applications and you got to take it to open a ticket and we'll do a DAO vote, I think.
But like I said, anyone right now, there's nowhere really to go other than our DAO.
And I don't know what's going to happen when Starz does its thing, because if they burn the collection, what happens to the ones on Neutron?
But if you're into experimenting, you can go to Arc Protocol right now and move your original Qt to Neutron and find our DAODAO.
It's just the same Qt's cult, but it's on Neutron.
It has a Neutron address.
It should only be like 10 staked in there right now.
And you're not going to see it on the marketplace
on Super Bowl. It just literally sits in
the DAO in the contract, yes?
Well, like I said earlier,
Stargaze uses dual IPFS, so
the metadata isn't on chain on Stargaze.
And a lot of platforms run
this way, so there's a there's
a ipfs for you've done an upload so you know how it goes correct yeah yeah it's on pinata or it's
on like uh or one of them yeah so when you're with super bolt you don't have to manage all that ipfs
you just you just take two folders images and metadata zip it up and drag it over and super
bolt takes your metadata and actually puts it on chain and then puts the
image on IPF s for you your metadata doesn't even have to have an image link in it fucking hell it's
so fucking cool uh well that's I mean it's a little bit like Omni but even Omni there there
obviously they'll put like the redirect link like in a block as information to be able to be accessed right
when you sample but even they put there i mean how the hell of super bold being able to do that
with like a rendering layer like that's kind of like it's not easy to be able to put like decent
sized data on a blockchain like well you got to realize Mercury upgrade happened, and I think we were waiting on a lot of that. We have crazy big block space on Neutron 2.
But since Stargaze has the dual IPFS and Superbolt is IPFS for the metadata or for the image and metadata is on chain,
it's going to be really weird to get a bridge to Stargaze NFT to be seen on Superbolt metadata-wise.
And Mr. T says the metadata comes over but i just
don't know if superbolt can read it itself because uh well okay i'm thinking about what we would do
with the videos and that right so i don't think we'd be able to see you superbolt if this is the
case so what you're talking about is each individual image yeah but each individual
is right but each individual image is its own kind of like it's not like one gigantic file when you
put the folder when you drag and drop each individual image as i put them on it by image
right now put them on the block image your ipfs is a folder the the big baf blah blah blah blah
the whole link of your ipfs is a directory with
all of the images in a sequential order i'm gonna have to look at how this works like i want to know
a lot i'm a really shitty dev but cursor's been getting me kind of into querying blockchains and
doing neat stuff like proving ownership and i can query a stargaze collection and download it but
i'm trying to still work with these bridged ones from stargaze to neutron to see if i can even find the metadata and i know it's
just my queries because i'm an idiot but because mr t says it's coming over but i uh i just don't
know how to get it on chain at that point without you know reminting it's just it's so weird wait
a minute i'm all right in thinking that super bowl are the first people to actually store
100 of all of it on shannon because there's nobody else no no no asteroid protocol that's
inscription oh sorry the inscriptions yeah yeah okay uh super bowl only does the metadata the
image is still hosted on an ipfs you just don't have to go do that part like stargaze does you
know like go up ah right okay now i get it all
right then that makes sense i was thinking like i was thinking that every single thing was on
chain and then it'd have to be queried on chain every single time yeah that's an inscription and
it just it bloats up a blockchain really quick because the image images are big you know and
that's why they're limited that's why that's why inscriptions like ordinals are really limited by their size right yeah absolutely but your videos will still come over because
they'd be on an ipfs it's just the the traits the metadata and all the stuff in the title that's
that's hard-coded on superbolt where it's not so much because when you were saying they've got crazy
block size and i'm like eyeball block size is still not like crazy big block size like even when you talk about like
crazy block size but block size isn't like that big like people didn't realize how quite limited
block space actually is by by size definitions sorry psx uh yeah but to put it in perspective
stargaze is limited to a thousand addresses per white list and i uploaded 25 000 in one note like
a thousand addresses per white list and i uploaded 25 000 in one note like
what are we going to say psx i'm going i'm getting messages off now by the way yeah i was just going
to ask that the inscription that's all that's all done through um i thought that was all done through
um art protocol well it was its own thing
it was asteroid protocol and art protocol and then merged so they're they're becoming a powerhouse and
i like i really do like asteroids protocol it's a it's a pretty cool platform i like arc a lot um
so i really don't have a dog in a fight if it's if i'm not on the on that platform myself you
know so i'm just kind of watching i have stargate stuff but i just i'm kind of feeling forced that i just have to go with whatever
inscriptions or they're incredibly limited incredibly limited absolutely
and i it's just uh mr t's been great uh you know as far as his communications goes but
t's been great uh you know as far as his communications goes but um i'm not familiar
with the whole uh aspirin i think i might have missed missed that memo on who or what they are
the whole roids meme coin and uh ambito has a collection over on asteroid protocol and it's the
the oh the mongs they're really good huh i'm not even much of an nft fan i just i like i think the only thing that really attracts me to
the whole entity idea is utility but i haven't seen too much of it and then arc and uh arc and
backbones just pulled me in and it's like all right you got my attention let's see where this
goes asteroid basically followed like the ordinal's way of doing things kind of thing
ordinals way of doing things kind of thing wait wait asteroid did what asteroid the kind of like
the like the replicated like ordinals but like obviously for the whole bright right
like concept behind ordinals how it works compared to traditional non-fungibles
okay i you know you're not right okay the easiest way to explain like an orderly lawyers so like
think about this like a dollar bill right so it's that there's a dollar bill yeah and now imagine
that if you're sitting in a restaurant and you see david beckham across from you right eating dinner
with his wife and you think oh i need his autograph and you've got nothing on you but a dollar bill
and you go over and you say like i've you know will you sign this for me and then david beckham like signs your
dollar bill like that's exactly what like an ordinal is essential the way an inscription works
with sats and they're just kind of like sort of replicated that with with adam with the hub
in its own technical way i'd have to like i think i know what you're talking. I'd have to, like, I think I know what you're talking about.
I'd have to, like, interact with it to better understand it.
I think I get lost in too many of these technical terms
to even know what the fuck to do with it.
I mean, JG and Mr. T are probably, like, the two best individuals
that I typically go to to break it all down,
to sum it up from my low-Iq mindset to get my head wrapped around it's like man dude if you can
explain to me trust me you guys are going to have an easy time marketing this out
well the inscription the inscriptions are on chain by default right uh to my knowledge yes but yeah
there's no like external storage for an inscription that That's not how it works. It takes the hub storage
I didn't realize how much storage some of this
Some of this inscription did take
but I think one of the one of the things that I was sold on the idea of
The inscription was the ability to add on more crack contracts on top of contracts to where it was like the features were unlimited.
But, you know, given the amount of,
given respective to the amount of storage.
You can already do that with other NFT standards.
Like Layers has a really morphable NFT
where it's going to shape, shift, and change as you do shit.
And Arc, I think, has one too.
There's a whole new standard for morphing and
evolving nfts so maybe nfts need to be renamed to mft well like molding fungible tokens well
the kamigotchi itself is a nft but it's a video game character and i level it up too so i mean
and when i sell it it shows the experience and the levels it's had so it's a video game character and i level it up too so i mean and when i sell it
it shows the experience and the levels it's had so it's obviously evolving yeah yeah i spoke with um
i spoke with um uh what was his name popcorn from um crypto dungeon and one of the things that
that kind of popped in my mind was was it possible to have an nft to where it was tied to a character
i haven't maybe i might have asked this to um uh mr t but yeah and i think he might have said yes
to this don't take don't quote quote him or me on this because i'm probably completely wrong but if
memory serves me right you can have like a specific nft say like it was an item within a video game where, say like, for example, like you've accumulated X amount of experience where it's powered up.
You know, it's where it's increased the strength of X item and say like you want to put that on the marketplace to resell at a much higher price that you originally got it for.
Or maybe you got this in the end game.
Oh, hang on a second hey on a second so hopefully you know it was like one of my my my imagination was just going wild
to see what what possibilities were there and that's not to say that this is available now is
just like could this be developed in the future and say it's not so much available for uh cosmosum uh okay because it's all rust based and stuff but uh
so my background before anything uh a long time ago i was in uh 3d visual effects and i'm in a
galaxy far far away yeah yeah uh uh more guilt geared for film but uh i know some stuff in like
video games and i'm i've been working with cutes to try to get it connected to neutron on on unreal engine and so just saying as a character goes i can run http requests and stuff
like that the query blockchains and all of that but yeah as long as you have your blueprints in
the game that that are all connected to web 3 and it gets really crazy and i don't quite have all
that down yet but yeah like opening a chest could run
a transaction or uh to see if you have this item like all of your gear could essentially be in
tokenized nft where it queries the blockchain to check ownership and it says okay he has these
shoulder pads or whatever right i'm coming listen i'm coming in here you know why because i've got
this always happens right the minute he finds out it's recorded uh and the minute he finds out that we're like hitting like nearly two and a half hours uh
if we want this in one episode oh yeah all right oh he's lethal and he he he gets some mean b
banzas case all the i mean i get it he's got to edit it it takes a lot of work but
uh if we go over two and a half hours it's game over like and he's not even gonna like
put it on spotify and uh google podcast and stuff absolutely all right i just want to say
it is for coming back at psx man you can drop in any time with like sorry i haven't been active
but it is good seeing small faces again and by the way cute i sent you a follow and i'll shoot
you a dm real quick because i know this like i don't want to um send you a follow and I'll shoot you a DM real quick because I know this like I don't want to send you an invite but
like if you're interested I'd like to continue on this conversation because you said you had
a background in video game development is that right more so just general 3d and visual effects
like I said I did I did post-production for film
like compositing match moving stuff like that but i have i have developed an unreal engine and like
way back in the day like unreal tournament uh okay i got friends everywhere if you have general
questions like i got homies at rockstar naughty dog a couple mice developed on their own shit for
like vr okay yeah uh i want you i'm not sure if this would be a considered a
conflict of interest wait a minute i'll let you slip in these dms with this one because i'm going
off to wind it down people's we've been going two and a half hours i'm going to get in trouble
but that's okay okay but slipping these dms good on so he likes he likes a bit of dms does our uh five on it uh but people we we've talked long and hard
tonight about stargaze and it was unbelievably uh not refreshing because it's always like this
on rack fm but it was unbelievably cool to see everybody being like very logical methodical
about things like no not one single person had any emotional attachment today whatsoever even
though we've been like creators on there some of us power users whatever you want to talk like the
crowd the night that we had in not one person like you know had any kind of like well this or that
like everybody just completely rational and on that note i want to thank each and every speaker
that we've had up tonight right
yours are all absolutely awesome uh this has been rack fm all right people it's monday the 26th of
may we love yous loads all right good night and god bless and take care wherever you're on the
world watch what you're doing all right people bye bye
