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RAC FM🦝Chatting CFMs on Unichain wif Bryan & Kyle/Alphagrowth.io😎
Recorded: Aug. 14, 2025 Duration: 1:18:21Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, industry leaders from Alpha Growth explored the innovative landscape of conditional funding markets, emphasizing their potential to reshape grant funding in DeFi. With significant incentives and a focus on transparency, the conversation highlighted the growing trend towards performance-based funding models, aiming to enhance the integrity and efficiency of capital allocation in the crypto ecosystem.
Full Transcription
Thank you. oh kyle i've sent you a mic mate uh i'm on a brand new audio so i'm not too sure if it's a decent or sketchy it can kyle can you hear me okay is there any
problems no i can hear you great oh dude it's the first time i've used this new setup so i've got
the new tablet with the microphone uh with like the headset plugged into the microphone so it's
really okay yeah yeah no it's it's clear oh lovely uh it's by the way uh kyle it's nice to meet is this the
first time we've spoken yeah yeah i think it is i've listened to a couple of your stuff uh like
streams before but i think this is the first time we've spoken oh dude we have some crazy shows i'm
actually really excited about this one this wasn't on the radar uh i take it brian probably still in meetings is he kyle i think
i'll be in soon yeah he knows that this is happening and i tagged him oh yeah i spoke
him earlier yeah yeah he arranged the time you know uh kyle i'll tell you what we'll just do it
because we've only got fairy king in uh there's been some stuff going on actually with uh some of
the ragfm crew uh so there'll be like there'll be
people coming in a little bit tardy i think uh noon is not normally a time we would do you know
not normally for us anyway hey so kyle how long have you been with the alpha growth mate how long
have you been a year so far yeah all right okay so you've been with them for quite a while when seby was there yeah yeah um i'm having a great time uh i love uh i love working here we kind of just uh
it's like always new uh new finance strategies to explore uh tons of research and uh looking
into different companies how can we help them, you know, meet their growth goals,
making up like presentations to give them like,
there's a lot of really cool stuff that we do.
Well, we've got Brian in here.
So let's get Brian in.
Yeah.
That's interesting because like one of the first questions I was going to kick
off with
uh kyle brian i've sent you a mic mate yeah one of the first questions i was going to ask and
maybe you can come in here actually quickly about alpha growth skin in the game with uh with sort of
with with the conditional fund and markets that we're going to talk about right maybe particularly uh butter buttery gg whatever
which is the handle uh what's skin in the game kyle have you guys got at alpha growth right now
it's actually a lot um we're launching uh curation uh markets for uh oiler and Bunny. And we're basically running our own balance sheets to test out our
strategies there. And Brian also tested out the strategies on Butter using his own funds to sort
of explore how that game works. I think DeFi requires participation in order to sort of like
understand how things are operating and then what they can do and if
it's good enough for us then it's good enough for others as well i think that's sort of the
approach that we're taking is uh i don't know if we've got a lag on twitter is brian shown as a
speaker for you yes i am yes do you hear me ah, we've got you loud and clear. How are you doing? How are you all right? Dude, I'm doing well, man.
There was a lag.
It was like a little five, ten second lag to be able to accept for some reason.
Dude, the conditional funding markets and food market, I mean, I could go from the top.
There's really nobody here.
I know you did some research, too.
But there's a lot that we can go over and we
can go from like the top we can go from the middle we can go from the side well brian actually we
haven't even done the normal beginning uh actually finn will have to do the big normal rag fm beginning
for the spotify and everything else right so i did actually want to broach the subject first of all
of what skin in the game has alpha growth got right now
obviously you're like very bullish on it and then we can sort of talk about more you know sustainable
like what we were my class as governance models with a twist or whatever but did you hear me ask
kyle about the skin in the game yeah i mean where did you decide to sort of get into this line?
Yeah, I think, I think it really kind of comes to the decentralization part, uh, of compound
and, um, you know, like fundamentally, like we lost the contract to run growth.
It was the big story.
We talked to the new foundation.
We talked to some of the compound OGs and it's like, Hey, what are you going to do about,
you know, Uniswap Unichain and conditional funding markets and like oh we're not
gonna do anything it's like oh you're not gonna do anything like yeah we're not gonna do anything
it's like okay well if you're not doing anything um what if we did something and they're like yeah
you can put up a proposal uh they actually then ended up voting the proposal down.
But by that time, we had already kind of, quote unquote, like applied with like Unichain and Uniswap Foundation. And we also have worked with them on a bunch of things.
So it's kind of one of these things where we committed before we got the financialization of the contract.
It's really complicated, unfortunately.
It's really complicated, unfortunately.
But we, you know, just like from the top, we basically got a compound into the game.
And our skin in the game was to win a contract with a compound to service the grant.
And then it became like really apparent as we started to play the game, how the game was going to go.
as we started to play the game,
how the game was going to go.
And conditional funding markets,
our skin in the game is,
as an individual I played,
as a firm, Alpha Growth was working on behalf of Compound
to win a grant for Compound.
That's the skin in the game.
And then we would get a service fee
to distribute the grants and incentives
and play the conditional funding market game.
I was going to say, there's a
900k. The incentive
is 900k with the UniChain,
right? Was
Morpho, Morpho was the first
winner, is that right, back in July?
July 11th? Yes.
Yes, so it might. Exactly.
So the first, originally it was supposed
to be like 1.5 million.
And then they're like, oh, we're going to do it in two tranches.
We're going to do a first 100K test and then 900K.
And so the 1.5 kind of came down to, and we're going to get two or three winners at 1.5.
And then we're like, okay, so they're changing the game.
They're changing the mechanics or conditional funding markets.
Like how much money that Uniswap and butter are going to put to this like if you kind of think about like the different
grants cabals of friends paying their friends with the the intention here is good they're trying to
get away from this hey just have friends pay friends on the grants game and like how do we
how do we make a market how do we make it more um more fair and then if it's
more fair then we could have like potentially better outcomes as well and so the intention
is good and and it's kind of better set up than a lot of things but it's it's really complicated
right so like if you think about these like funding markets it's like who's gonna have more
tvl who's gonna have more impact
it's like how many people are watching you know defy as a sport right if you think about like like sports gambling it's like all these people watch like sports entertainment but if you think
about like defy tv like how many people watch defy tvl as a form of entertainment not many right
entertainment not many right oh man i'm just i'm it i'm listening in man i'm making notes i'm like
they don't have to be asking me any questions no i just but it's a fundamental question right
like you're you're like you're entertained uh by defy and and you know we're kind of all here because you know the financial
freedom and and these types of things but a lot of like not many people that aren't in here for
like the money or like kind of like in the industry are like watching defy as a sport maybe
they're watching like meme coins because they're financially incentivized but how many people are
like other than people that are in the industry, like B2B,
how many people care the difference between Office TVL and Compound TVL?
Not a lot.
Not a lot.
Yeah.
Only the people that are like in the industry.
So they set up like this prediction market and retail game that really the only
people that really care are kind of like the investors.
And this is like a, like you're,
you're almost making like a secondary derivative bet as an investor in like,
let's say compound or Aave, right?
This is like a secondary derivative bet.
And like the amount of people that are going to have like attention is like
much smaller in my opinion so you i kyle do you want to come in or shall i jump
on the next question yeah um my thought was that uh the market is mostly for uh growth teams
it's it felt like uh like unichain um this food turkey thing is like,
we're just going to evaluate the performance of these growth teams.
And we, like Alpha Growth, would be like a horse in this sort of race.
And I think that those are the people that care the most about this.
But no one is really betting on like,
the people that bet on us are as like are like our clients or potential
clients and uh so it's a very narrow uh amount of like people who would participate
which is it's true because i think they're only like 20 or something right brian yeah i think
there's like 28 people that that participated. In the grand scheme of things,
the whole methodology of the voting with dollars
and voting as a prediction market
is about wisdom of the crowds.
And my biggest takeaway is wisdom of the crowds
requires crowds if you want it to be successful.
So it's like if there's only 28 people playing the game,
you don't get the probability curve of wisdom of the crowds, right?
The more people that you get into playing the game, the more accurate conditional funding markets will be.
Well, we've seen how corrupt and how twisted some funding things can be.
We've seen some dirty tricks over the years, Brian.
Let's be very honest about that, right?
So, well, I have got a question about the TVL strategies. can be we've seen some dirty tricks over the years brian let's be very honest about that right so
well i have got a question about the tvl strategies so because i do want to talk about the security side of it right and the uh outbunness here the integrity side of it so arbitram uh arbitrams like
a lt uh ipp was it right you guys were involved yes you guys were involved in that right so
and you've got we know you've got trek road track records of like driving or boosting uh tvl right
like on arbitrum for example like what would you see the differences like will cfms drive more tvl
do you think more tvl growth than like the traditional incentive programs we've seen before?
Like, I'm asking you, Brian, straight up, like, if you had to bet your house on a yes or no bet on whether CFMs will be more successful on traditional routes, would you be betting the house?
I think it's weirdly enough.
Brian, you're on mute.
I think for us, it's double incentivized that we want it to work um like functionally if you like so i want to say this most of these like protocol
teams like think of grants and incentivization as an after fact they don't they don't have like
professional marketers or professional like instead of distribution people uh and growth
people that have done like um you know roasAS and like, you know, performance before.
Like, so.
Oh, Kyle, can you hear Brian or not?
I can't hear.
Brian, I think you cut out yeah brian
you've had one or two problems that maybe he's getting a call you know kyle
okay so yeah kyle you heard the question i don't know sometimes that does happen
uh yeah yeah would you would you bet the house uh point of view on uh no uh because i think the number of
i think ultimately the tool the reason this tool exists is to have uh unichain provide an
opportunity to have competing um like competitors of i can distribute incentives better than you can distribute incentives type uh to vet basically
where to give their grants out that use case is interesting but the scope of um who is interested
in participating in that use case is like pretty small so i think that um something that we did see
was like like i think these futaki things they're a bit like using prediction markets to determine um some kind of like to maybe guide what an outcome ought to be
so i think that uh there's sort of a spectrum between like say will trump say some word you
know like which is what a lot of the prediction markets ended up doing when he was like talking a
lot to this type of thing which is like what kind of TVL will be achieved by alpha growth on compound in this time period.
So I think that there's like some middle ground in there that has to do with like,
betting on the outcomes of significant decisions that have to do with like, how, you know,
how, you know, say like DAOs are operating.
So like, for example, one interesting thing might be like,
when is Compound going to turn the fee switch on?
You know, like that's an update that's like pretty significant
or even better, when is Uniswap going to turn the fee switch on?
Because the question of the Uniswap fee switch has been around for a long time. A lot of people care about it. There are a lot of uni holders.
And it's basically like a question that has to do, that can only be resolved by governance
and this kind of decision. So like, this is sort of, I think, an interesting kind of middle ground
where this type of thing might be more interesting because you again you're having
the problem of like who cares enough to vote on this and put money on the line and so i think
there may have been a mistake in that uh it's not very interesting spectator sport uh and it's more
of like an evaluation of our skills as like uh growth um executors as opposed to like uh something more broad yeah yeah all right
can you hear me now i i had to exit and come back yeah we've we've got you yeah we've got your back
so you remember the original question but i what i just reply to kyle very quickly as a host you know
quickly as a host you know uh people though will bet on anything what I found is over my life and
I'm part pikey so I do know a little bit about this right but like people will bet on anything
bro like I like I've seen them more like you know like whatever you want to talk about I've seen
betting of every caliber and every aspect so this makes a a perfect straightforward
like logical step in humanity when you think about blockchain and its existence like i don't know if
there'll ever be any other funder models than this right where as the as the user base of crypto
like grows as this network effect eventually takes over the
world that i believe it will you know this is going to become like huge so brian the original
question was you know we talked about arbitrum very quickly in the ltipp right and your work a
little bit in like would you be betting the house moving forward in the future that this is the number one like route of funding i think it's better than than what we previously have which is
like a balls and different people faced upon bro to bro relationships and like if you can if you
can take something that you know is corrupt and hedge sunshine and put a market on it, then public markets have, obviously there's corruption
in anywhere, but the amount of capital that has been unleashed and the amount of upside,
public markets and stock trading effectively have driven so much value.
Now imagine this in funding scenarios, right? So if we could start to do
this in like government funding, like right now, if you look at a bill and like the United
States government, I'll take this full circle. It's incredibly, incredibly important for us
as a business and what we do for this to work. If it works, we're in pole position because we
were part of the first experiment ever so yes we want
it to work two it should start to weed out corruption um and well that's if you kind of
like okay okay i thought no no i'll not cut you off there actually we'll keep the next question
for when you're finished but what do you mean about it cuts out corruption so if you if you
shine light
and you make a public market
on whether the outcome
is going to be positive or negative,
you effectively have
a financialization mechanism around it.
And it's not just because I said so
or a call to authority
or a call to status
when really behind the scenes
you're paying your friend
and you're getting some sort of kickback.
It basically distributes funding
on a methodology that if the system is wrong, you're paying your friend and you're getting some sort of kickback. It basically distributes funding on,
on a,
on a methodology that if the system is wrong,
the system pays and the people that are wrong pay.
And they kind of like subsidize and discount its outcome.
Setting up the game though,
is extremely difficult and extremely important because what you're trying to
do with these like conditional funding markets is set up open games into closed games and so you can you can trade on
the outcomes which is like an incredibly difficult thing to do and above itself you know you know
like think about like all the government corruption that happens in existence where you know people
are paying their friends or like there was this like uh there was this thing released during covid that
only eight types of tests in the united states were allowed to um serve covid results covid test
results and those eight companies did like like 10 000 growth in their in their businesses and
made hundreds of millions of dollars so those eight
companies that were allowed to give out the covet test that were blessed were ending up being owned
by like friends or direct people that were um basically deciding which tests were valid and it
was the same you know it was the same in england or with all of the ppp stuff and everything like
in england exactly exactly the same b and nor shit yeah so you have that
and it's not like based upon meritocracy whether the test is good or not it's basically
how big of a kickback or how much of an incentivized to give a grant or give funding or
allow for a particular regulation to come through like it's the financialization so if you can kind of take that market of corruption
and collusion and bring it into a public market in a prediction market the theory is that
conditional funding markets and foodtarchy will bring sunlight and transparency into um
previously corrupt systems so and turn it into a financialization so brian that's a
perfect like segue i've got me wing one of my wingmen up here i just want to welcome him because
he was on a meeting until well done red eye well done you're not too tardy brother how you doing
good morning son good morning everyone good morning to brian
and kyle great to see you guys again i actually been i've been kind of jonesing to hear from you
guys again after all your travels brian so hopefully all good things to report yeah definitely
back home i just got home and yesterday is it's wild. The highlight of his trip was hearing
Robo speak Thai.
Oh, dude, that was fun.
That was fun.
My kids are still asking about you, dude. It was cool.
Oh, they're lovely, aren't they? I love kids, man.
The class, man. Do you know what I'm saying?
Because they're like a blank slate,
aren't they? There's no
limitations on what they can learn,
what they can do what they can
experience i'll tell you what brian i as a world traveler of 20 years i'd take my hat off to you
because i know you took them to like a machu picchu and stuff last year and then they come
and then they come and spend two months over here uh thailand and japan dude incredible your kids are
so lucky i they don't even know how look they probably do they don't
know not yet no they don't but the will they will someday ah they will do one day so i'll tell you
what this is a perfect segue and red eye i know you've been looking into these uh the cfms etc
right optimism optimism had some trials right uh they were looking at it and there was some crack in the community
hedging like so uh buttery right like so what's being done to prevent manipulation
like as opposed to sort of traditional voting if you would explain it like a 12 year old or something. I explain like a five year old. Okay. So explain like I'm five.
You have a president of the class, right?
Like let's say you're in third grade and you're going to vote for class
president.
Do you want to vote for the class president that is going to represent you
or are you going to vote for your friend?
And if you vote for your friend, it's cool.
And he wins the popularity contest,
but you might not get that, you know,
your voice is heard on the student council
or the parent teacher conference.
But if you vote correctly
and you get the best person in there,
you may get a piece extra pizza day.
Let me, let me take it like even one step total like um diabolical
the russians vote for putin and he's not a great leader he could get them into world war three
and completely annihilated but they continually vote for him and they put him in and it basically could be the end of like all of their families and their
entire identity if you put the wrong leaders in place on you basically can get annihilated all
right so that's those are extremes it's like one doesn't matter and one is basically like an entire
culture an entire country whether it gets the right to exist, is basically dependent upon if you're putting the right leaders into place.
This is way, way different, right?
This is like the experiment to figure out if we should scale it out to running an entire government or an entire society.
And the experiment here is, it is it is corruptible but when you go to corrupt it
it's going to be pricey to corrupt it it's going to cost you money that's important that's important
so so because buttery's design right like they've got things locked in right oracle reporting vault mechanics etc so yeah like so
red eye because i've got me it's the defy legend red eye how much have you looked into this crack
the cfms and stuff since i sent did you look read up on it did you look into this or what
when you say cfm is it are you speaking of capital flow management
all right you didn't you didn't read speaking of capital flow management? All right.
You didn't read all the stuff I sent you.
Okay.
Right.
Fair clear.
I did do my homework, professor.
All right.
So I'll give you the glow down.
It's conditional funding markets, which puts a prediction market on top of a grant.
And this is like a theoretical governance model called food.
All right.
Already sounds cool.
Yeah. So basically you have people bet on which grant will work and hit the KPI or not.
And if it hits the KPI, you can vote against it hitting the KPI or a lower KPI and exceeding the KPI.
And over time, what ends up happening is as the market comes to an end,
it rebalances. So people are making money based upon whether or not the grant or the bill
or something that's voted into place was successful or not. And you kind of predefined
the KPIs, you predefined the game, and then you launch launch the market so the first one ever
well so they did a trial on optimism but it was effectively not really used to they're playing
with funny money everybody got some funny money not really money to play uh the first one ever
to use dollars on on butter markets uh launched And there was a $100,000 grant and then $20,000 worth of USDC liquidity incentives that were
placed to kind of get the party started.
And then the market went into...
So there's four contestants.
The contestants were Venus, Compound, Euler, and Morpho.
And the contest was, how much difference would a $100,000 grant create in TVL?
And so it was like, okay, here's the protocol.
Here's its current TVL.
If you gave it $100,000, how much TVL would grow?
And people bet on it.
And you could bet down.
You could bet up and then
as you bet down and up um you know somebody won the grant and then the grant played through and
then you played the second game which is like if they're not funded uh how much money would they
get if they're not funded and so they there's two grants i mean i mean there was one grant but there
was two different markets those four markets resolved on monday or tuesday uh, there was one grant, but there was two different markets. Those four markets resolved on Monday or Tuesday.
And there was about 20 players in like $100,000 or $200,000 of trade volume.
And we're just kind of like discussing how this can be applied to grants and governance overall in overarching different ways in the future.
Yeah, I think this is a super cool idea.
I don't exactly understand that full example, that particular example,
that great, just because I don't know how they're measuring
or what they're measuring necessarily.
So the KPI was TVL.
And basically the idea was with $100,000,
who's going to grow TVL the most?
Yeah.
$100,000 supplied for lending?
It's just like a stock market.
It's like a stock market for predicting
which projects are going to grow. Like Un uni change just want their tvl to grow yes so they're
like right okay essentially let's have a stock market for predicting which projects will do it
and then people will bet usdc on outcomes like whether you know this one hits 50 mil tvl right
and then the highest priced protocol is the one that gets the grant.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
As long as you know what you're, you know, like scoring.
That sounds super cool.
And definitely think it could be applied to other types of grants as well.
What Brian said earlier though, as well, it's prioritizing data over opinions.
If you look at the fund and yeah, if you look at the fund and yeah and relationships and you know secret
handshakes in the back door right we all know what we're talking about right this is what's so
interesting so in my opinion i don't want you think that i this will become the blueprint for all future funding models uh outside of that
traditional you know seed round blah blah blah etc you know what i'm talking about on chain on it
also sounds like an interesting way to like potentially kick back additional fees and revenue
that could actually be used to build the the funding for that grant specifically.
Like not saying that the trading volume
or your fee from that trading volume
is gonna completely provide
whatever grant amount you're putting up.
But I could definitely see it helping,
you know, at least to some degree,
which would be really cool.
Yeah, they could have like a little VIG,
like a fee generation on getting the funds.
Yeah, so.
Brian, Brian, Brian, sorry.
Can I, can I just ask you something?
So, okay.
Trump was on, on the TV.
I think it was yesterday or the day before I talked about contractors, right?
This little bit is almost like people putting tenders in.
Do you know what I mean?
It's almost like a tender situation where you're making people like fight for the top spots, you know what i mean it's almost like a tender situation where you're making people
like fight for the top spots you know yeah which which creates efficient markets right
if there's enough capital and enough uh knowledge about the these markets then we could start to
apply them to like other things like uh you know, anything that isn't that can be public, like from
general contracts to to jobs to like the private markets tend to be more efficient than public
than than public organizations that don't have any KPIs to hit, we can start to apply KPIs and
funding to different organizations, whether or not hitting their KPIs or not. Right. So if you talk about like, you know, like a cancer research institute or, um, you know, a national health organization,
maybe their job should be around getting people healthier. Like what, how do you define health?
Whether it's like longevity or quality of life instead of quantity of life starts to become the
game. And whoever kind of, kind of defines the game starts to become the game and whoever kind of
kind of defines the game kind of is the one in power interesting enough but if everybody generally
agrees that the game is a fair game then you can really start to impact uh you know real life things
as well not just kind of like you know tvl on on on a chain which is like super cool
but i think it has like other applications as well
do you think at the minute that there's any uh like a user friendliness uh sort of
like okay so that involves like multiple steps like a lot of things in crypto but like would
you say that there are barriers in regards to like user friendliness
that might need to be?
Yeah.
It's incredibly complicated.
It's way complicated.
Like you have to understand the game that's laid out and,
and then there's like user experience.
They did a great job,
but you can't really understand until you play.
It's like,
you know,
theoretically for like one or two,
like three months before the markets launched,
we probably had like five or six hours of conversation
with Butter and Uniswap Foundation and everything.
And it like, okay, cool.
It kind of makes sense in theory,
but like think of it as like a board game or chess.
I could explain chess to you all day long, but you're
not really going to get it until you play the game.
Right.
And so I, you know, from my own perspective, I ended up coming out number two on the leaderboard
of the entire game set in terms of like profitability and everything.
And, but after like those four, like, you know, four or five hours of conversations,
it probably was another three or four hours of actually playing the game
until I understood how to play the game.
It's complicated, bro.
So is that going to be a barrier moving forward or not?
Yes.
But maybe that's okay.
Okay, because then you're only getting
stringent players in the game,
like us who all know what we're doing. Yeah. And if you're sort of stringent players in the game like us who all know what we're doing yeah and if you're not a stringent player in the game and you're betting
on a vote or you're betting on a bill you're just gonna opt out because you're gonna lose money
so like i guess when i think when i think about predictive or prediction markets, I guess. I think about polymarket and, you know, you can bet on all sorts of things.
And it sounds like at least for the examples that you had, it's like there is a some intimate knowledge or deep knowledge required to assign some level of predictability to these events.
some level of predictability to these events.
And that's why you could potentially have fewer players
relative to something like,
will this nationally recognized event happen at this time?
Or like, you know, something that maybe
is more globally understood by individuals.
Yeah, I think that's the issue.
It really calls to show like how many experts
are in the situation
that A, knew about it going on, B, were wanted to play,
C, willing to learn, and felt strong enough to bet dollars against it.
There was 28 people.
Well, it overcomes.
I've just changed, guys.
I've got to get the headset off.
I did 36 minutes with the headset.
My ears are burning.
I'll have to get used to this.
That was a new audio set up tonight, but I hope this one's okay.
So, right, traditional DAOs, right, this cuts, like, a lot of the shit out.
So, Brian, you know how opinionated i've been about traditional
daos right people in the room i know some of you know what we did with beats by governance you know
when you're running a dow or like you're in charge of one or getting votes you're literally out there
canvassing yeah in this situation brian the p the people are coming to you to canvas essentially right what coming to me no there's
a financial incentive to canvas yeah but a traditional doubt you have to go I'm using you
know look dude you're just knocking on people's doors right you're dming people you're in groups
you're like all the votes up you know the votesvassing, right? Here, well, there's no canvassing.
Like, people are like, okay, I want to get involved in this, right?
Right, Robo, you know how we originally met?
Do you remember?
Through Carver, wasn't it?
No, no, AADAO.
In proposal 92 or 96 or something like that, right?
And the original call-out that – because we had done ecosystem growth before. The original call-out in the situation is the AA DAO, $10 million or $15 million or whatever it was, it didn't have any KPI or any sort of metric to tell whether it's doing a good job or not, right?
sort of like metric to tell whether it's doing a good job or not.
Right.
And if you,
the conditional funding markets require a KPI that everybody agrees upon as
the goal,
as the win.
Otherwise you can't set up the game.
And then it's really about whether they reach that goal or not.
Yep.
Makes sense.
So let's say it was, you know, number of like, what was it?
Like shared security chains, right?
So like, you know, number of like shared security, or it was like how much market cap was brought to Atom or TVL or whatever, whatever like the KPI is.
Now you can run a prediction market against it
now if you think you know uh what was his name yusef and and and you know the aa dow team
can do it or alpha growth can do better you can literally bet whether or not which team is going
to do better and depending upon which like the betting, it then determines the outcome of the grant. So as long as in a vendor selection process,
this becomes like very clear on whether or not people are confident whether to apply the money
or not versus relationships versus anything else. And so it's like in a long-term format you have prediction market
plus betting plus outcomes and eventually you can start to take this like open process open game
turn it into a closed game and and start to really formulate like progress in governance theoretically
well red eye he front run me on the uh ea dow question uh kyle mate i do apologize bro we should have bloody asked you earlier like we've been rabbiting here rambling kyle you want to
come in on that point yeah uh i actually um i wanted to to ask about about skin in the game as like a subsidy for getting things done.
So like if I'm alpha growth, I think that I can get compound up, you know, and then we've got like some competitor and they think they can get something else up.
If I get if I succeed, then I receive some of the grant, then that's the objective.
But also, if I'm betting and I succeed,
then I get the counterparty who bet against me
in addition to the grant.
So is it setting up like you must bet on yourself
and then it sort of offloads like or subsidizes grants with
like your opposition as well it's a good question i guess this is like this was like actually called
out in the first game morfo bet on themselves and they ended up getting the grant. Well, Euler decided not to bet on themselves.
That's just an example of hedging, right?
Like if they bet on themselves to get the grant and they got the grant,
that's just a pure hedge, right?
Right.
And then the question is to come into play is like, is that right?
Euler was like, hey, we're not going to bet.
And then Morphhe was like –
It's like you have max upside there, but you have – or sorry.
Yeah.
If they don't win – if you bet on yourself and you don't win, you have max downside.
Yeah, yeah.
But the thing is, the max upside is the max – like the max max upside.
There isn't a better upside than betting on yourself, right?
Yeah, so what happened – this was actually one of the problems.
There was, I got into further details, there was two markets.
There was a funded market and a not funded market.
And what they did was who can make the biggest difference between not funded and funded.
The delta between the two markets was the real game.
the two markets was the was the real game and so morfo i believe somebody on morfo voted they're
not funded down and they're funded up which created a better delta a bigger delta than the
kind of like the natural market of uh oiler and so there was zero cost on the not funded market as well. So it was like,
there was probably like a way to like gamify it.
And I think more of a day. I'm probably going to have some better rules for the game.
Yeah.
A little bit.
But it's the first one ever, right?
It's like.
Yeah, I know.
It's cool though.
I mean,
people thinking outside the box a little bit.
Well, yeah.
I was,
so what I said to Kyle earlier,
what I said over my lifetime,
traveling the world, right?
And being off, I know that people will bet on anything whether it's cockroach racing rhino beetle
fighting whether it's walley with any coin in the world like i've seen every bet you can imagine in
your life but also on the other hand people who are clever who you know not not low iq people people who are clever will exploit
anything that they can like we've all heard of like perks of the job and you know my old man
wasn't you know shy of like uh whipping stuff out when he was chief electrical engineer and selling
it in the market on the weekend like people the thing is or people will bet on anything and people
will also exploit any
like little loophole brian anything that's a people are going search for them in crypto these
days right yeah so it's never going to be totally like like did it will there be a total solution
that will never be like front run or hedged or you know abused or like so what we i mean you couldn't have timed the market better like to be honest like it we
went into like this crazy like up market in the last like two months um so it but it was a massive
success right so their their funded market if you kind of like go to, you know, the game, I can send a link out there.
But like, you know, their original predicted, you know, funded rate was, I believe, like 186 funded.
They went from like 120 to 186 right was the
diff between the two
and it ended up being like 400 million
so they
blew it out of the water like
crazy amount of the water
and then you know the TVL
today
let me go to it 250
million right
so like 180 and then 250.
so it's pretty wild they both by 70 million they over they over uh they overshot
it's crazy how many different things you were talking about were like kpis and stuff
i mean we're talking about ea uh brian and you know i'm not gonna say we were talking about were like kpis and stuff i mean we're talking about ea dow uh brian
and you know i'm not going to say we were well we were cosmos maxis right but so like i mean
let's say that cosmos had this like kind of solution like four years ago five years ago with
all of the dollars that were getting slushed about right and thrown around so we had an expression
called jobs for the boys
you know what i'm talking about norm like ea dow is just like a fucking it was a money laundering
operation anyway adam's been a much for people who don't know in the room for people who really
don't know on the replay you can't be that dumb to not know that like ethan and jade designed adam
to circumvent the shit of the uh like the ico's and stuff in uh like 2017
2018 right they wanted to avoid the so the airdrop scam came in in cosmos but you all want
to know just like exactly what cosmos so there's not a lot of let's say a spare money sloshing
around in cosmos but there's a level of intra intraoperability
i always get stuck on this word intraoperability around do you think there's any kind of solution
like this gonna be seen in something like cosmos and on another question on the back of that is
uh what's what's gonna make uni chain so strong in your opinion oh these are two big questions um the
first one uh people are using i think like the new circle chain is like cosmos um there's like
another chain coming up that's like cosmos correct from like xrp building the side chain as well yeah
from an infrastructure perspective like it's going to exist and continue to exist.
I think they just like shut down like a month ago or so,
like the EVM side that they were going to build out.
There's so much EVM tooling that, yeah,
there's an advantage with Rust and there's advantage like with speed,
but just the amount of tooling and the amount of devs there are,
if you're an EVM, it's like a lot easier.
We saw that when we were helping, you know, Kava go from a Cosmos chain to EVM chain the amount of of options in terms of
like market cap and price and the availability of to like build like TVL and everything else
uh EVM is the standard right it just is um so would this have saved Cosmos? I don't know. They really wanted to lean into Rust
and Rust is like just a much harder language. And there's like a lot less devs than EVM
and Solidity devs. So I think there's just like a maximum capacity. We talked to like
12 or 14 different Cosmos chains and we did scrapes and crawls. Like there's,
it's in GitHub alone.
I think there's like 30,000,
40,000 different EVM projects being built
or even like not live,
like 80,000.
And the total number of like Cosmosm,
you know, Cosmos SDK,
like projects on GitHub
that there were, there were like 400.
So you're talking a magnitude of like 400 projects to 80,000 projects.
And that differentiation is just so massive that you're going to get more stuff out of the EVM world.
So I don't know if grants or conditional funding markets would have helped.
It's just a massive undertaking to grow the amount of developers that large. On the second question around the future of Unichain, so if you look
at its basis, it's an L2, they use OP stack, it's cool, whatever. The largest treasury in existence in crypto overall other than like like from like a pol
is the uni swap dow um last i looked they're sitting on like four billion tokens dollars
worth of uni token okay like in there you mentioned the dow brian brian when you mentioned the dow
so isn't there i think there's a uni or something,
a uni association on the DAO or something, isn't that?
Like, they've got quite weird DAO situations.
It's really weird.
It's like, there's probably like six or seven
different organizations that kind of have a say.
But, you know, the whole thing is revolving around
waiting on the fee switch before
like the next iteration comes out so that's kind of like that that situation um there's a lot of
hooks in the kitchen it's almost like cosmos where there was like a lot of like icf and and you know
like these different organizations there's like you know four major organizations at cosmos
there's probably like five major organizations at uni swap
fortunately unfortunately a lot a lot of a lot of players yeah one of the i remember one of the
big players back in the day was that university and there was a bit of drama about that back in
the day it was like talk of like well yeah so like pretty much are you know all of the top like dow's right and the top day was on
ethereum yeah that was a very strange one wasn't it eh kyla let's hear from kyla kyla put some
tweets in the nest it's only because red eye sent them to me earlier uh we had ansem saying like
cosmos being directionally correct on this and making zero dollars from the trend really is something.
So that was his reply to David's Divine Economy, where he's like, strike circle, Robin Hood base, hyperliquid.
Sorry, but we need to finally admit the up chain thesis was right
but you know we've battled against like the option thesis actually for quite a while and so that's
quite funny uh what say you kyle is the up chance the thesis the way forward or not um i uh i mean
it seems to be where everyone goes.
And it's probably because you want to get the most amount of fees captured on your, like, all the value you want to basically absorb into your project.
And so if you make your own chain, then you can control how fast things go.
You can control how fast things go.
You can control like off-chain data.
You know, like you can do your ZK off-chain order books or whatever.
You can get all the fees.
You can determine what your gas token is.
And, you know, I guess the question is like like and i guess the other thing is like is there enough
uh cross-chain capability to where it's not a burden for users to get onto your chain
um is that like what you're talking about because that that's how i would evaluate that
100 percent mate mate there was a lot there's loads of other parameters you can set as well
like block time and everything else right i do want to get red eyes like opinion because red eye
you did send ansom's reply uh which i thought was quite ironic but i mean you know red eye obviously
works for uh shade yeah he's deep in the industry i mean oh he's oh is this is this the truth now after rack of
them for like two years saying the option thesis is dead is that now are we just been
talking for two years no i'll i'll say uh this i originally sent this to you guys just
because i thought it was funny but um if you look at the list of chains that original tweet was referencing, the majority of those were like a centralized business with existing users.
They're then bringing those users kind of on chain or those actions on chain.
And I guess my thought is when you have a big enough user base that it's worth catering to them in order to retain them
as users i think you know then you have some additional justification to have an app chain
rather than some sort of generalized smart contract platform that you would deploy your product on
um so when we look at the cosmos ecosystem i think there, I think there's probably only a few app chains that people could say realistically should be an app chain.
Circle being one of those, DYDX was another big product that had product market fit users, existing fee streams that were really solid.
that were really solid.
And they had a reason to want to sort of tailor
to their existing user base in order to retain them.
Whether or not that's needed for startups,
for small businesses with questionable business models
or product market fit,
or a sort of unknown amount of potential users
wherever they're deploying,
then, you know, I think you have less justification
to consider an app chain.
So I guess it just depends on how big you are,
what your goals are.
That's based.
Oh, sorry, Kyle.
Yeah, I had a question i wanted to get back to on the conditional funding markets is like a an idea of like uh so i was thinking about proposing like a
growth program or something to a very small group of people uh like a very small project
and that you know they have some money, but I'm not
sure if they believe that I could do what I wanted to do, something like that. It was a prediction
market. And I was thinking like, well, why don't we set up a prediction market? And like, if I hit
the goal, you know, then of like, say, fees or TVL or something, then you can give me a grant or something like that.
And you guys can all bet against me if you want to.
In that situation, like I could also bet on myself.
That seems like kind of like,
maybe like a twist or another version.
Like I'm trying to think of like,
how else would we want to use
like these sort of like futaki slash prediction markets?
I don't know.
All the possibilities.
Kyle, the possibilities are probably endless, actually.
The possibilities for this, like the growth opportunity is like crazy.
Because let's look at the markets right now.
I mean, Brian, you know, right, the markets are fucking happy the markets right now i mean brian you know right the markets are fucking
happy and pumping right now we've just seen record etf inflows again yesterday i think for
ethereum right like there's so much capital on the sidelines for crypto people don't even
realize where crypto can go right now so if crypto can go giga nuke brian like the conditional
funder markets surely can go on you as well right yeah what you're trying to do is you're trying to
like stop the grift right you're stop you're stopping the good old boys you're stopping the
jobs for the boys that's that's the all for this. And so anytime you have a form of corruption,
either in a vendor contract agreement, or you could potentially set up a conditional funding
market if you were smart enough to kind of set it up. And then people will play. And then external
observers that have stock or they want to put their dollars to work can, can start to like, yeah, I want,
I want this thing to be real. I want, I want, you know, the best winner to win. I want, you know,
these types of things. And, and, and so you kind of go from like armchair quarterback of like
politics being entertainment to like, look, your funding, you get to put your money where your
mouth is in the game.
And if you don't like something, you believe something is wrong,
you can like vote with your dollar against it.
And I think that's like the beauty of this thing.
I think there's like a lot of challenges of like how you set up the game
and how you set up the outcomes.
And, you know, there should be costs associated with like just playing it all.
But eventually I think, you know, you get to should be costs associated with like just playing it all but
eventually i think you know you you get to the right you iterate this idea again and again
and um you're going to get to the right conclusion
so what can we expect from alpha growth moving forward then oh we're going to play the game
how tell tell us what you plan well you might not want to give all like give all your skin in the game away but just tell us like where
you know we're what like a middle of so we didn't i mean it's a little bit inside baseball but like
look if you think you're smarter about you know defy andL and you, and you know more than the next person, then, then come
and play, you know, go to, I'm going to show butter, you know, go to, you know, butter.markets
and check out the games that are coming. They're going to run new markets. And if you're, if you're
an expert and you're an expert armchair quarterback, now you can make money from your armchair
quarterbacking, right. And, uh, of DeFi and TVL. And defiant tvl and i'm gonna we're gonna
continue to play the game and then we're gonna continue on the other side to be a service
provider in terms of like helping protocols play conditional funding markets and win conditional
funding markets so if it becomes a thing we just did the first one it's like when the first like uh you
know decks went up like ether delta it was like crazy complicated and then it got like easier and
easier and like you know it became like uh uni swap and and sushi swap over time and so right
now we're at like it's wonky ether delta it's it's it's weird um you don't
really understand you don't really understand kind of like what to look at like and uh over
time we'll get smarter at it what's up right so just a quick question uh so in the the game you
had previously talked about where you're measuring like the change in the amount of TVL,
you know, funded, non-funded market, the people who like the people being measured or the things being measured.
So like in that first game, you said it was like Euler, Morpho, Compound and someone else.
Right. Those entities are allowed to also be players of the game, right?
Yeah, that was actually a big kind of, I don't want to call it rift,
but it was like, Euler just said, hey, we're not going to play.
And Morpho said, yeah, we're going to play.
Well, that's what I'm wondering.
And I imagine you can see where they are betting, right?
Yeah, I mean, it's wallets.
It's trackable.
They do a little bit of anonymization, but we think Morpho bet on themselves, and that's why they won.
Yeah, it's interesting.
I guess as long as you can see where the bets are being placed, then if you have a knowledge at least that the people that the game is
measuring can also be players of the game that's good knowledge to have as another player of the
game yeah so i knew some information about venus and i knew some information about compound and so
i bet against compound and venus so the markets were mispriced on the not funded and i knew compound wasn't going to do anything
and you know it was likely to you know as oiler and morfo make more moves they're they're very
excited about making moves on unichain i was like okay oiler's going to go up morfo's going to go
up and compound and venus are going to go down because i know some stuff about venus as well
and you know i know the founder over there.
Wait a minute, Brian.
That is – wait a minute.
So everybody in the audience and on the replay,
you've all heard of fifth-generational warfare, right?
Like this is fifth-generational betting, for want of a better word,
right?
Who's picking up on this?
This is why I was interested of, of like who is allowed to be players because certain players if they are the ones controlling
the thing that is competing effectively then they have some inside knowledge about what they can do
to potentially game this whatever they're scoring and then people who know also that intimate information they have you know or know
how to figure out if that entity is also a player where they're putting their bets and stuff like
that yeah it's all fifth generational is an interesting way to describe it but yeah it
makes sense layers of information but but it starts to price that information and starts to make it public
and that's where the data element comes in yeah rather than opinions or feelings or
friendships or emotions is just where the data starts to come into play right exactly
they do some smoothing
they do like 30 day smoothing so it's not
spot price or spot tvl
there's some mechanics that are harder
make it harder to game but in general
if you know where something's trending and you're
an expert at it you can make money
if you know the game just like
anything else like those markets as you get
closer to the end should be resolving
whatever the final
results exactly so you don't have to spend the whole time in the market if you think there's
like a mispricing you can kind of market make the prediction market but i mean look it's it's
exactly the same with like things like uh for example say take horses for example right uh horses are dependent like on a
lot of things like the ground etc etc right there's loads of things with horses that are taken
into account so you can like take a bet on a horse like two weeks before a race right and in the two
weeks leading up to the end of the race the conditions can change right there's so many
things that can like happen right with a horse
for example my grandma used to study form so all it is like there's when you were explaining it
there brian i was like this is no different to horse racing i'm sorry like no different yeah
or or sports bet gambling but like yeah i i think where it has real impact is like when on when you start to
apply to things that are traditionally like politics and political it can kind of start to
um decay the political realm for meritocracy i mean that's what we're trying to get to like
that's why that's why we think fundamentally things are corrupt.
You're thinking with your mind
rather than your heart, right?
Are you good? You're thinking with your mind,
your brain.
It's an
IQ player.
It's not a good feeling player.
Yeah.
Who's going to bring more economic
wealth to America?
Biden or Trump? if that was the the prediction market and that was the only metric that we wanted to vote on
you know you you might put your dollars in your vote on this thing like this is where it gets
weird when when you when you have like an isolated stat it's interesting but when like as you have it
not isolated and you're trying to like weigh um all of these other different metrics and kpis it gets pretty multi-variant and and also kind of like it can kind of cut to the jugular of like
what people really care about like people don't care about like a fancy front end uh on unichain they don't care about volume they don't care about a fancy front end on Unichain.
They don't care about volume.
They don't care about fees generated.
They don't care about flow.
They don't care about new assets listed.
What Unichain cares about is TVL.
And it makes it really, really straightforward
that we don't care about anything else.
Just bring us TVL.
And so you just optimize for that.
I love, wait a minute, Red Eye eye we don't care about anything else bring us tvl it they bring us his head that movie bring us his head hey brian i'll tell you what what a crack on space mate
i'll say finn's joined us hello finn he's a day trading finn he's on the nasdaq or some shit
he's fucking loving it this is a great day to trade mate uh i've got to say though brian what a great i mean because we
were approached well we went past the hour i think what a great space what a great conversation and
you know what it's a difficult time for raka fem we don't normally kind of like do these times
very rarely uh unless it's not a way here oh no me you're more than welcome
now what I was going to say is though it's like so it's evening it's drive time home in Europe
and it's lunchtime in America so it's like for an audience it might be small this will do replays
me red eye Finn the crew all ears guys Retweet this out, Low War Cutes.
We've seen you haven't left
whatsoever. If anyone in the audience
has been here a long time, if anyone
has got a fine, like, important
questions, please
request a mic. By
all means, if you've got anything on your mind,
before we wind it down,
give us a mic shout.
So, Brian, you know know i did some research on this
as you can probably tell but what i will say is that like i don't know what your enthusiasm
is something that i can feed off red eye you kind of get that vibe you get the vibe of when you know
when you feed off someone's enthusiasm red eye eye, right? You know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, of course.
But I also think that Brian is enthusiastic about the right types of things to get excited about.
I might judge his excitement a little different if he's excited about some really boring shit.
But pretty consistently, whenever he comes on and is talking to us about stuff it's always really applicable it sounds like there's really solid product market fit for this
um and so yeah just absolutely love chatting with you guys yeah brian i want to i want to see i want
to see how this grows outside of uni chain uh we do know finn's just finn's the end doesn't
come to let us in bring us the tvl yeah we'll get finn's stocks on chain i think by the end
of this cycle you'll have stocks on chain fucking finn man he's hilarious honestly brian you want
to hang around with him in a group chat
man red eye he's the craziest kid you've ever met in your life jesus finn's mental
but he fits in well eh kyle mate any parting words before we like wind it down because what
a good space dude if we keep the like if we keep it you know this time it'll be do good numbers yeah anything kyle uh
no i like listening to see what you guys thought i i'm i'm i would like to learn more about uh
different use cases and uh something else that came to mind is like you kind of need to have a controversial thing to bet over so that you can have more money if you win.
I think it sort of determines the type of markets that you can do.
So if it's some obscure thing and not many people are participating versus if you get
a lot of people that say no
there's no way that you can do that and then you can actually do it then you can kind of uh
i guess uh take a bigger pot if you're successful um and voting for yourself
yeah you should talk to them about creating markets we should maybe create a market over
over game not like a conditional funding market or like uh it's a little it's slightly different than like
a poly market bet but it could be fun yeah do you think thank you guys well i just actually i don't
know do you think like tges and and airdrops and things might creep
into this sector? Because I'm guessing
it's not at the moment, right?
That's a great
suggestion because you've
seen the salt sheets and stuff
on the timeline.
Is this going to be a total
flop? You could have an entire
secondary bet thing on like
and it would be pretty amazing actually because uh because um there's no real consequence for
like uh i mean apart from your reputation for just sort of like uh i don't know rugging everyone's
expectations or launching like a total flop of a token.
And I think a lot of it, not all of it,
but a lot of it has to do with like
how the thing is structured.
So if you launch a token, you're like,
yeah, me and my friends are going to get like 90%
and we're airdropping like five
and we're giving five to market makers
or something like that.
But it's going to be really great, guys.
You can short that in the beginning,
but what happens is maybe I also have friends that will spike the market
and squeeze your shorts.
So if you have 60 days after TGE,
what's the outcome of this airdrop type thing?
Or I don't know i guess uh
some something like that like maybe there would be i mean people would i was all kyle i was also
thinking about a reward system though like if everything's on chin there's a reward system
like a connection mechanism in there if you wanted to right if you did a great job and you and you if you did a great job on your on your token design
and your launch and you got uh people to bet um over the success or failure of it
uh and you wanted to get some of the upside if you succeeded. Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, well, no, I was just thinking about, like,
a kind of, like, reward system for people that have, like,
backed the right kind of project.
If the project, like, is hyper-successful in the future.
A lot of sense.
And what you're doing with KTE, like, tte like surely like like see like a morpho right
brian like in the future like they could do a tge they are presumed they can get like data on
the people that like supported them right
morpho's already got a token oh has it well it? Well, well, it's someone with that token.
You could also go into like, who should get the airdrop?
Like the conditional funding market would be around,
what's the best place to do airdrop season one?
And why?
And what are you optimizing for?
Are you optimizing for people that hold? Or are you optimizing for people that, you know, LP?
Or like, you know, whatever you're optimizing for you can
create a conditional funding market training activity borrowing lend you know lending providing
liquidity trading all sorts of stuff so it's almost like the market would be like who should
you drop to and how much percentage wise so basically what you're saying brian is here right the kpis
of of these predictive markets the kpis can just be endless like the list can be endless as fuck
right no exactly exactly we have some and as long as everybody agrees that to those kpis are the
right ones then you can create the right markets.
Whereas at the moment, yeah, we're UniChain.
At the moment, it's TVL, bring us the TVL.
But again, it's infancy.
This is like something that is like,
this is so young, man.
It's so juvenile.
In crypto, it's ridiculous, right? Oh oh i've loved this space well thanks man all right i'm gonna hop off and go back to the the day you know the day job
have you got any jet lag have you got any jet lag or not are you all right
i got up in like like 4 30 a.m it's it'sm. It's fine. I only slept like two hours in like 38 hours, like time frame.
So when I got home, I was like out, out.
It was pretty rough.
I was like zombie-like.
But, dude, it was – I tried to like combat jet lag.
Oh, mate, you've got to.
You've got to.
I never, ever have – you know something?
I've lived in Thailand, obviously, like near on 20 years now pretty much but i've lived here constantly for the last 13. uh i never have a
problem right when i fly back like west like to the uk and that right it's only when i fly east
i have a problem bro and it takes me out for like three days so i can go back england for a trip
right like 10 days 14 days whatever go about england for a trip right like 10 14 days whatever go back england
and like going there i just i'll arrive like uh you know 9 10 maybe pm right okay you know no problem
and then when i fly home i fly overnight and dude like i've literally the last time i came home
i was took out for three days solid like flyer
like west to east it was so savage bro oh it's lethal you're doing all right cuz you're doing
all right anyway brian we'll wind it down what a great space what a great convo uh red eye i know
you came in late but you've enjoyed yourself son right yeah this is something i hadn't even thought about before and like uh you saw
originally i didn't do any homework so all my reactions were uh completely authentic i think
this is a super cool idea so kudos to you brian for again finding something worthwhile to focus on
yeah well yeah it's it's early and if it becomes a thing dude it could like just be like uh
you know flash in the pan and it might come back 10 years from now who knows right but uh you know
getting this out there and getting this conversation out there gets like other people like the story
out of like hey maybe maybe we should put a conditional funding market instead of just like
you know funding our bro yeah and you said the market is called butter butter butter markets yeah butter dot markets yeah okay and they're gonna
do another uni chain one and then they're gonna start expanding to um i think they got to deal
with either optimism or arbitrum too that they're gonna do something there i don't know if that's public yet or not. We're cooking.
Yeah.
I think they've got two more experiments coming,
but they are looking for more places and more things to experiment with.
We're cooking.
We're absolutely cooking.
And obviously, Brian's a very good friend.
Alpha Growth are actually the benefactors of Rack FM.
I just want to thank Kyle.
It's his inauguration to Rack FM.
Kyle, thank you very much for coming along today, brother.
Yeah, it was nice to experience you guys hosting.
Thanks for engaging in the conversation.
Good to see you.
Well, mate, we try to do a good job.
I mean, we're not perfect.
We're a little bit, you know, rough around the edges, brian gets it he knows exactly what ragfm is and that's one of the
reasons like he's like no no like put alpha growth name like behind you guys it's been an
honor and a privilege man we've just like uh dude we've just hit six months at the beginning. We did like 137 shows or something in six months.
It's the thing that gets us on the airwaves like five days a week.
We've dropped a couple of days, but in the grand scheme of things,
it's nothing compared to the double shows and that we've done.
Since then, Red Eyes come on board board part of the team it's been great
crack and on that note gentlemen i just want to say thank you very very much sir oh fantastic and
get some rest brian you're gonna need a few people mate just take care of them beautiful kids because
i'll tell you what you've got the best kids in the world you are blessed human i don't even know how you are
as blessed as you are your dna dude you want to bottle that up and sell it on the black market
dude i could sell your babies dude i could sell your dna in thailand your spunk for so much money
you wouldn't even believe it man but never mind that's Yeah, yeah. We wanted to go there, but it was strange.
People were, like, taking pictures in Thailand with my kids.
They wanted to, like, come up to them and, like, take pictures
because, like, the blonde hair and the blue eyes.
They were just, like, it was strange.
They didn't mind it.
We just kind of laughed about it.
Dude, you wouldn't.
Well, you laugh there.
You don't even know.
All the famous, like, Thai TV stars are not here, right don't even know All the famous Thai TV stars
Are not here, right? The people who's in the soap operas
And everything else, right?
And the comedy, they're all half and half
You know, all of them
Every single
Top star in Thailand
Is half and half
Whether it's German, Denmark
American, whatever, dude
They're all half and half.
That would explain what you're talking about.
And on that note, people, we're going to wind us down.
It's been Rack FM.
It's been an absolutely amazing space.
I believe in America it is the 14th of August, 2025.
It's actually the 15th here.
And we're going to wrap it up.
So it's been Rack FM, 69.420 fm coming in your ears five days a week
thanks to alpha growth.io people pay attention you've listened over and out good night and god
bless wherever you are in the world bye bye
