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RAC FM🦝Goes Lunar with LunCo.eth in da studio🎙️S/by Alphagrowth. io?
Recorded: July 31, 2025 Duration: 1:19:10Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, LUNCO's Rina Faber and founder Rod Mamin unveil groundbreaking initiatives aimed at democratizing space exploration through open-source projects and innovative funding mechanisms. The launch of Formion, a memecoin, and the HyperDESAI initiative signal a significant shift towards community-driven science funding, while the need for regulatory frameworks highlights the evolving landscape of decentralized science.
Full Transcription
okay guys as per normal we'll just get everybody in we'll get the co-hosts set up we'll get the
project in we'll get everybody established as speakers and then we'll kick this bloody good
show off i'm actually looking forward to the day it should be a crack i've been really enjoying
the uh the dsci side of uh crypto over the last sort of seven eight nine ten months yeah uh
obviously our our beloved sponsor brian at alpha growth is a big dsci head he actually got us into
it oh he must have been talking about it about a year ago but we've been paying attention hi it's red eye so i've got a co-host let's bring him in all right red eye i've sent you a co-host
brother i'm just explaining uh give a little bit of background about how i've been getting quite
interested in dsi recently and i'm really looking forward for uh lone co-sim to be coming in today
yeah should be fantastic like democratizing space yeah
see if you can grab the co-host there brother
oh he mustn't be able to grab a co-host. What's going on there? Okay. Oh, did the
invite not go, brother? No? Okay. I'll bring you in as a speaker, but you should have the
co-host, right?
GM, GM fam, oh it's kicked you out, that's it
GM, GM, fam. Oh, it's kicked you out, has it? Don't say that.
Don't see the basses as playing up the day
Basis is playing up the day.
GM, can you hear me?
I certainly can, brother, how you doing, are you okay?
Yeah, just the mic button was lagging a little bit
Also the co-host thing didn't come through, which is why I just requested
Okay, okay, Let me check again.
Let me just check a double check now. Do you hear me well?
Hello there. We certainly do.
Good morning.
It's morning where you're at.
Well, it's morning where I'm at.
It's evening where Robo's at.
We're on complete opposite sides of the...
Okay, it's evening for me as well.
And is it Reina that we're speaking to, yeah?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely right.
Hi, Reina.
Great to touch base with you, yeah?
Yes.
I was going to say, we normally kind of let the room fill up a bit,
but red-eye, there's probably no point, right?
I don't know, but I want to warn you that I think I will have like 30 or 40 minutes
because my schedule packed today for the evening.
So I will need to wrap up.
Don't worry.
Don't worry.
We'll get straight into it, Rina.
Yeah, because I'm dead excited.
Thank you very much, first of all, for agreeing to do the show.
We really do appreciate it.
Yeah.
Cool.
I'm happy to so we'll do our little uh quick
introduction that we do for every show okay normally when because we archive these reina
on all streaming platforms yeah uh spotify google podcasts itunes and our own website as well so we
record them and we have like an editor an archiver and he
cuts everything from the beginning up to the official introduction so without further ado
good morning rack fm and it is a good morning it's uh july the 31st 2025 guys and we're dead
excited we do have yet another d side project on, following up from our previous track record of projects we've had on this year.
And I will say this is quite a unique project.
Democratizing space exploration is something I didn't think I was going to be talking about on a show.
So yes, welcome Reina. Thank you very much for agreeing to do the show today.
Welcome, Rina. Thank you very much for agreeing to do the show today.
Hey, everyone. And thank you for having me on RACFM Spaces.
And yes, I'm Rina Faber and I'm Chief Operation Officer of LUNCO.
And I'm really pumped for this conversation. So a little about myself, a quick intro.
I'm a PhD candidate in astrophysics, and I'm researching lunar and Martian surfaces.
And I've been involved in such missions like ExoMars, and right now in Luna 26.
ExoMars and right now in Luna 26. And it's been like over a decade in planetary science and
the last four years I'm in space medicine also. And I'm managing risks for health of astronauts.
astronauts and I'm really passionate about making space inclusive so one of my
initiatives also I founded a woman's space Academy to get more women into main goal is to deliver the I'm quite excited about that so our mission is
really bold at LoonCo it will be open source lunar base by 2042 just before
just before we go I was gonna say that's a lovely little introduction before we
go into like the
mechanics because yeah sorry there are some things i think amazing about your project i love the
community driven approach yeah i did just craft a few questions you know to talk about a bit about
your mission and the technical approach and some of the broader implications of uh desai as well right so your introduction was perfect so you
guys are aiming to kind of democratize space exploration through open source missions right
can you share like the origin story then of uh lungco sim and what inspired i mean obviously
now we've known your background you know we know. But what inspired the focus of making space accessible to everybody?
So I need to mention that our founder, Rod Mamin, he is a space engineer.
And this is his cosmic child, I must say.
So you need to distinguish LUNCO SIM and LUNCO.
LUNCO is a lunar company, and LUNCO SIM is our platform,
an open-source platform that will let anyone,
engineers, enthusiasts, or just dreamers,
design, simulate space missions, and also using Web3 mechanics.
So, as I already mentioned, our end goal is open source lunar base,
and it will be our main milestone on this path.
milestone to on this path and what I want to emphasize that right now we are
in early stages we're in the alpha phase now but soon you will be able to create
spacecraft rovers and lunar habitats in and test them in real time.
So you asked me, why is it centralized space?
Right now, space is gated.
It's dominated by a few big players with massive budgets.
And we all know about that.
That's not sustainable for humanity future and we believe space should
be open to everyone regardless of location or resources and open source lunar base means
knowledge and innovation that aren't locked behind corporate walls or classified programs as it is for right now.
It's about collective progress and where engineers in some distant part of the world, you know, Sao Paulo or just some hobbits, sorry,
some dreamers in Tokyo maybe can contribute to humanity's lunar future.
And how we can make this happen?
Because right now engineers and all space industry is working in silos.
and all space industry is working in silos.
And we're just in the beginning of the past
and industry don't understand
and don't know how to proceed to make it collaborative.
And LUNKASIM will be a collaborative hub
where users co-create designs and simulate cases and share knowledge.
And we will try to integrate VR for pros and 2D interfaces for beginners,
so anyone can jump in.
But it will be all in the future when we have funding.
So I think that's it.
Brilliant.
This would lead me into the open source approach, right?
So you guys are obviously emphasizing like no gates, no gatekeepers, just like collaboration, right?
no gates, no gatekeepers, just like collaboration, right?
How are you planning on ensuring quality control and coordination
with things like open source, like mission designs,
if you haven't got any centralized oversight?
How are you going to ensure quality control and coordination?
Yeah, it will be.
Also in the future, we will think about managing
and create some DAO to maintain this.
So it will be DAO with governance,
with some experts that will contribute to this.
So it will be, It's just our vision
for right now.
So it's way into the future.
For now,
all we want is to
release our platform
and start with that.
And when
we want it to be like
that
in a period
of like five years when someone wants to make a space mission and he or she thinks about what I should do to start? What should I do to start? And the first idea that came into the mind is it will be, oh, I should open LUNCO and
proceed.
goal to open source and release it to all the universities all the way to make it like the base of the future, of the space future. how we can ensure that it will be in this type of thing.
I think blockchain is the backbone here.
It will let users mean their designs as NFT
and you know that there is IP NFT blueprints that's securing ownership and
also it can enable royalties and that's how we think it will be working in the future.
That actually brings me to the next point. So the Hyper-DSci initiative, right?
Yeah.
You guys have obviously kick-started the Hyper-DSci initiative, which is obviously aiming to fund the DSci project via quadratic funding.
Can you just explain about how that kind of framework works and what impact you're going to hope it'll have in the future on what you guys are doing?
HyperDESAI is one of the initiatives and I'm not leading this initiative, but I obviously can tell you about that.
I obviously can tell you about that.
We deeply, as LUNCO,
we're involved in HyperDESAI
because it will guide us
to the open source lunar base
because we need the science
to make it possible to build lunar base.
So it's a community-driven, decentralized science and it's a perfect place and it will be
launched but in the future it's place to connect with other Desai projects and push our vision forward. So as part of this, we're launching Formion. It's a memcoin to fund design initiatives.
And Formion will use innovative mechanisms like convertible grants and streaming QF quadratic funding to support scientific projects.
And it's a way to fuel the DeSci ecosystem
and fuel also with Science LUNCO
and bring more people into decentralized space innovation.
As I know for now, it's still no launch pad for space projects.
So we know a lot of bio and medical projects and initiatives,
and it's really popular in WebTree.
But for space, it's not so much.
So the launch is
coming soon
tomorrow we will be
having space about that
we will discuss everything
you need to know
about memcoin
about
streaming QF and how
you buy proceed
with Formeon and what it will give you.
And Rod will share a lot of this information, so I really insist you to join these spaces.
And you can look in Hyperdesign account for this news or just at LoonCo.
And yeah, I think that's it.
Perfect.
I actually have got another, I've got a couple of questions related to that.
related to that red eye have you got anything at this point maybe or you're just hanging on there
Red Eye, have you got anything at this point, maybe, or are you just hanging on there?
well i guess it's um it's not a very technical question but i am curious um you know over the
past few years uh well really this past year uh we've seen sort of the expansion of access to space to other professions outside of scientists like there's
examples of you know the what was it I think that eight or ten women that went
to space with Blue Origin all having all other than the one having no in the sciences. That's not true, sorry.
Part of them have a lot of experience in science. I could not give you the name right now,
but some of the female crew are scientists.
I knew one of them was at least an astronaut or related to science.
I just want to correct you, sorry. I'm curious, how do you think the access to space is
changing for people outside this industry? Do you think, you know, some of these moves that I don't know whether or not they're more meant to be kind of public shows of,
you know, like this is still possible accessing for, you know, a normal person. But like,
how do you view this progress? Like, do you think this is the type of progress we're wanting to see?
Do you think this is like a good first step, but we have, but we have a long way to go?
I'm just curious about your take on what we've seen lately.
Let me see. When we talk about what implementation we can have as a humanity, it's one question.
will make our lives better for ordinary people that just don't think about space every day.
That was your question, right? In general?
Yeah, I mean, obviously there's been a ton of advances within medicine, military technology,
all sorts of other technology.
But I think we'd be naive to think that space can't have a profound impact
on other professions and other applications of science.
And, yeah, I guess I'm curious on how you view or what you think that impact
is going to be on all these people you're trying to help democratize
the access of space for?
So it's, yeah, it's really hard for me to answer this question because when you, when
you have this mindset that is essential and this is your life and you think
I personally think that
it should be
like philosophy
like transhumanism or
like religion
so that's really
just my opinion and my beliefs
that's
exploration
and space exploration
is what can
fulfill our lives
that's
something that
make me exciting
when we
look at
people who like I don't know, astrology,
or they don't give a damn about space, but they like the way how it can be presented to them,
like they like
space movies or
something like that
it's one part
small part of
the whole picture
so when I
say that our platform
will be available for
dreamers and just people
who love space.
I think that in the future, somehow, we will be in some place
where it will have a massive impact on ordinary people.
It's about opening doors and creating opportunities.
It's like we see this boom with AI right now.
And when we decentralize space with Web3,
we're not just building lunar bases for
governments or just for ourselves. We are giving the chance for everyone to
contribute to humanity's future even if they don't understand it for now.
That's why also we use Web3 mechanics
because
it will incentivize
these people
to be more
curious about this type of
thing because it's easy.
When it's easy, you get
creative.
Our platform
will let those type of people
also design spacecraft,
even if they're not an engineer.
It can be just as creative as you just prompt
that you want to make.
You know how it's easy right now to create a site
or create some movie clip and so on.
You just need to make a prompt.
That's all.
And that's how it will be
in a few years with a spacecraft.
It's not that it will be in real life,
but you can be in this new mindset
that you can able to do more.
So I think that's my take for this.
And I really appreciate that.
I was just, you know, I've heard so many times the perspectives
that people get when they're in space, whether it be on the moon and the International Space Station,
you know, in lower Earth orbit, there's still some profound takeaways that people can get
regardless of their profession. And so, yeah yeah i was just curious on how you kind
of think the expansion is going to impact people in those other professions um go ahead robo
oh no mate you're good i mean just to let you know uh you know when we prepare for a project
we really do do our homework you know so we'll go through like all of the kind of twitter uh
tweets and mentions whatever we'll also go into things like
the github and stuff now i mean i don't know if the github is your wheelhouse or anything but i
have been through the the githubs you know obviously the hyperdisi one as well i i just
wanted to bring up that it's been mentioned that even like ten right, can fuel the engines of space exploration.
How do you guys plan on incentivizing small-scale contributions?
And so how do you incentivize small-scale contributions, right?
And what roles do like NFTs or other Web3 mechanisms play in that
incentivization process?
Let me think of that.
Right now, basically, it's like Texas. So we know that our taxes, some parts of them are in space industry,
in space agencies,
and doing the main part for space exploration.
So because we are open source,
we are working for free
and to make things happen.
Every dollar count and every contribution count.
And we have many contributors.
And I hope we will have more.
We need more contributors.
and it's not just developers or engineers.
And it's not just developers or engineers.
And when we will have more of them,
for right now we have 15 contributors
who do something for us.
It can be marketing, it can be developing our platform,
it can be storytelling and so on.
And that's a lot of help. And we go forward with this kind of help and it really matters.
So you mentioned about mechanics,
and right now we're trying to figure out
how it will all work together
because our platform, engineering platform,
should be working without Web3 mechanics.
But in addition to this we add the layer of Web3 mechanics with NFTs like, I don't know if you know Zora or not.
Yeah, the Zora blockchain, yeah? Yeah, yeah, it's like Instagram when you click on the
when you want to like some photo, you just not just like more operation you have the more value you have.
So we really need to make more operations to create this chain of values to make it all works and for right now with our small
projects in WebTree we test those systems how they will work in our big
platform. If I need something just remind me the question please.
Oh just asking you you know like small-scale contributions,
how you guys were incentivizing them.
I mean, you've given us quite a bit because, you know,
crowdfunding is an interesting one,
and then crowdfunding on Web3 is a further interesting one.
You know, if you look at something as simple as Kickstarter,
there's an incentivization mechanism, you know,
built into Kickstarterstarter right for example
but don't know it was fine that rain don't worry about that hey you've given us enough information
i did look at the civil attack mitigation stuff again it was in the github
uh so the hyper hyper d side right the initiative that you guys are running, reviews votes for civil attacks.
Have you got any information on, like, what technologies are you using to ensure, like, fair and transparent funding allocation in the funding round?
I think I'm not in charge of answering those type of questions, sorry, because
in those type of ways to answer this, because I'm not in charge of this
in hyperdesign, so I just don't know.
And for me, also I need to mention that.
So I'm, I'm OG in academia, but not in WebTree.
So WebTree is new for me.
I'm in that like one year, like nine months. So I'm just
digging in and I read all those papers and I understand what you're asking me, but I
don't know okay no worries if anybody is listening on the replay guys you
can obviously go and access the github uh github.com forward slash long course sim forward
slash hyper dsi and there's a lot of really cool information in there obviously rena we totally
appreciate it like not everybody we have on the show is like
tech orientated you know some people are only in business development you know some people have got
like their own sort of wheelhouse we just appreciate you guys being on right and we all
remember the early days of getting into blockchain red eye right we all remember how difficult it was
starting this journey yeah there's so much to learn, right? It's crazy. You know?
Yeah. And I'll say, I think that,
I think that your scientific backgrounds will,
will do you really well in navigating this space as well. I mean,
you're solving extremely complex problems.
Navigating a web three is a complex problem in itself. Uh,
but I think, you know, you guys have the tools,
you already have the tool sets needed to navigate.
And so I think scientists in general, I have a scientific background in chemistry and physics.
I personally think we're a little bit better set up for navigating this industry.
So I just wanted to say I think you guys are going to do really well in the short term and medium term thanks thanks so what arena what about this one so i did if this is like sort of
these are just general bsci things now okay uh and i'm not going to go into like defining dsci or
anything our audience pretty knows but we at rackfm we often do think about
things like legal and ethical challenges that uh companies or you know projects might face right
so like dsi is operating in quite a complex space right between like academia crypto and other
things like you know things like bioethics for example right
in your opinion right so this is just your basic opinion you know being the person you are what
like legal or regular regulatory frameworks do you think are going to be needed to support the
growth of dsi particularly particularly if you think about things like initiatives like open IP,
on-chain clinical
trials, anything, I mean anything
across the whole DCI spectrum,
what regulatory
or legal frameworks do you think is going to be
needed to support the growth of DCI?
like do you think do you think it's gonna do you think it's gonna have to like we've just seen
what's happened with the genesis act right and stable coins essentially being regulated in the
right like do you think there's gonna have to be some kind of like legal or regulatory framework
like to support base size growth moving forward or do you think it's going to have to be some kind of like legal or regulatory framework like to support
base size growth moving forward or do you think it's just going to grow randomly?
I think both ways actually it cannot be others.
What are regulatory frameworks? I think frameworks are needed to increase adoption of DESAI.
I think we must consider the challenges that DESAI faces. that decide cases and you mentioned IP force and yes we have a regulatory uncertainty
and we will have it for i don't know how much time in the future and also data privacy but with blockchain it's much easier to navigate some really hard questions.
For example, how you can share your data if you are an astronaut.
And we have like around 1,000 astronauts, astronauts,
all kind of people that went to space.
So if you want to, for example, navigate their health and to look and investigate in long term
what kind of effects
space have on them.
We need to use something like
data privacy and blockchain provide this kind of thing.
And I think that's just a matter of time to um
to for adoption for these technologies so i think it will be
accelerating in in some um in some particularly uh future. So let me think about that.
I think it needs to be also from the government side. but governments it's a slow process and it's all kind of technicians and restrictions
and if what I can say about on this matter
can say about this matter. When we thought about mint spacecraft designs as NFTs and
ensuring ownership, when we talk about intellectual property via NFTs, it of course raises regular questions around security laws because it's not that simple.
So without fair rules, design projects face scrutiny that slows adoption.
And the initiative that can be taken into account,
I think regulators should create frameworks.
So basically someone should create those frameworks for IP NFTs
and specify how they differ from securities
and ensuring compliance with existing IP laws.
So, for instance, there is a molecule protocols for IP NFT framework and for now
it could serve as a model
encoding research
agreements and smart contracts
but it's
the one case
and in the future it will be
more I think
and of course we need to
as I already mentioned,
it's data privacy and security standards for developing these hybrid models,
combining on-chain transparency with off-chain privacy solutions.
And I really don't know how to make it global standards for everyone.
But I think that someone just needs to start.
And that will be precedential.
But I think it will raise awareness.
it will raise awareness and maybe this somehow will move us forward.
Well, you're doing it.
You're doing it.
I will say this quickly because RedEye's got his hand up,
but you are doing this at the right time
because there's a very pro-crypto government in place now,
administration in the US.
So there's probably never been a better time for you guys to
be doing what you're doing you know yeah I hope I hope so too yeah but you did mention I mean you
did mention the government I mean look the genesis act has just passed it's obviously still got to be
implemented fully but you know they've been talking about uh regulating stable coins now
which should have been the easiest regulation for seven years.
So, you know, we could be talking in like 2032 and there might not be anything in place for DSAI.
But Red Eye's got his hand up there. Go on, Red Eye.
Well, one of the things that I couldn't help but think about in terms of like what needs to happen for DSAI to really take off,
in particular, like space exploration and
the sciences related to space.
And I mean, there's still, you know, many, many countries that don't have the infrastructure
or the capital or the regulatory approval for space exploration.
They're working with other, with their neighbor countries or
working with other ally countries. There's also, you know, needing to ensure that when you're in
space, if you're doing some sort of science experiments, you know, being able to uphold
the methods and standards of the scientific method. And then there's the whole,
we are now dealing with a space that's not necessarily governed by our sort of territorial,
territorially bound laws. So one of the things I've always been curious about is like, when you're in space, what laws, which laws do you have to obey? You know, is it international law? Do we have to come up with a new set of, you know, principles for behaving and, you know, working together in space now that
we're outside of these boundaries of our country? Some of the things that I was kind of like
thinking about, not as specifically relating to regulations around you know the actual
getting to space but some of the other things we'd have to consider once we're
in space how are we going to behave and you know what standards do we uphold
which I guess is something we'll have to figure out.
which I guess is something we'll have to figure out well that's why it's the
final frontier right yeah so I do know that really said she didn't have a lot
of time right now just I have got two kind of main points one thing I've
learned about Deci over the last like 10 12 months is DCI really encourages interdisciplinary collaboration, right?
How are you guys going to foster these partnerships between scientists, engineers and Web3 developers
to advance your goals? What are you guys doing to create that collaboration between these different disciplines?
I don't think that they are different disciplines. It's really less like it because
it's a wave in academia also when everyone have a multidisciplinary approach, and that's how it is.
I don't think that's really a problem.
If we're talking about engineering and theoretical science
and different backgrounds.
And if we're talking about WebTree, of course, we need to make sometree like it's really simple and to have this incentivized methods like games and just let me let
me make it more simple the simplest way we just need to make this disappear. So when people that are not familiar with Web3,
they just don't need to feel like they are in some new environment.
It should be the other layer so it should be really simple for them to navigate
this webtree techniques and not need to have some courses and so on to make what they want to make on the platform. So we will go for this direction.
But because we are starting right now
and we need people right now,
what we do, we educate,
we make some seminars,
some workshops where we educate them.
So we have some contributors.
So these are amazing developers or engineers,
and they don't know anything about Web3.
And yeah, we need to make things happen.
So we educate them ourselves.
And that's how it goes for right now. Actually that was, believe it
or not, that was like question 15 on the list I think was like talking about
community involvement. Oh sorry, I just look, sorry for interrupting you, I just look who just joined us.
It's our CEO.
Hey, Rod, maybe you want to hop in and share your take on Looncore
or maybe answering some questions because I need to do quick and go out.
Okay.
Okay.
Reina, one very, very quick one for you.
How can listeners of this
space or on the replay, how can listeners get involved with your project, whether they're
coders, whether they're in the science, whether they're just like space enthusiasts, yeah?
How can people get involved with you guys? Okay, so we have Tali form is just basic Google form that you can just fill out it's on
on LinkedIn in our profile or on X so just follow our pages social media and you easily find those application forms and from that we will make things happen.
Brilliant. Reina, we appreciate your time because we know you were short on time today,
so you go and enjoy your day and thank you very much for your contribution today. It's been
greatly appreciated, okay? Thank you for having me.'s this was a blast it's a really good conversation um yeah bye
jim jim how was growing hey hey is that rod is it yep yeah nice to speak to you we didn't expect you jumping in uh it's been quite an interesting
conversation rod uh because obviously sort of rain has sort of got more of her field and you
know sometimes we do come in a little bit blockchain heavy uh as you can imagine sometimes
you know so uh what's what's your role in the organization rod if that's
okay i'm the founder so as the founder i'm doing everything from development to marketing to
operations uh blockchain i'm actually a web3 native I'm bankless so everything and everywhere
somehow relates to me aha so as you see we did obviously we had a bit of a
snoop around in the github and stuff today you know and you know we weren't
sure who was actually going to be coming
in the meeting and stuff but we were just sort of asking a couple of things that maybe were more
blockchain related than anything else you know uh one of the things i mean you know if reina didn't
know she was just telling us that's not her wheelhouse you know one of the things we were
talking about was the civil attack mitigation right uh with the hyper dsi initiative yeah uh you guys obviously are going to be reviewing the votes
uh in regards to like you know monitoring for civil attacks uh what like strategies or
technologies are you guys using to ensure like fair and transparent transparent funding allocation for the quadratic funding rounds?
That's a great question and we have a multi, it relies on like there are two ways how
and when people vote. First people would vote to select the projects and for that we are relying on
For that we are relying on the Gitcoin passport as one of the levels, but the most important
is that to vote which projects to accept to the round, people would have to stake one of
the tokens that we have in the system.
And actually they would have to dedicate 10% of the tokens to the treasury.
And if they violate, if we figure out
that they've made a single attack,
then that stake would be slashed.
Also, if a person nominates a project,
they also have to additionally stake some ETH. And if the project would violate any rules so
someone would have to nominate the project and if the project violate the
rules then the stake of those person would also be slashed. Those
mechanisms are related to voting.
Also, I have to remind that the overall framework is designed to be continuous.
So, if at some point in time we figure out that there were some violations,
then we could somehow prosecute the project. And the next interesting part is related to
donating to the projects. It's related to... so the exact mechanism used for donation is called
Streaming QF. It's a combination of
quadratic voting approach but made based on streaming, based on
superfluid. So for that we also rely on a Gitcoin Passport for initial for like initial anti-CBIL detection
and also the overall way how the project
operates because we use a dedicated coin for that
the more people buy the coin the bigger the value for the project
for the overall community.
So, it's a bit hard to explain, but if some project makes a huge...
Rod, don't worry, we love this stuff. We listen to this stuff all day long, so don't worry about that.
we listen to this stuff all day we love it yeah sorry so to summarize that's definitely
We listen to this stuff all day. We love it.
an issue and to prevent it we have a multi-layer mechanism like several slashing and
different incentive to find the to detect the attack and because it's all continuous
despite like on gitcoin you have only two weeks for vote while in our mechanism it's an ongoing
initiative and hopefully a lot of eyes would look after the situation
and if someone violates or there'll be some strange behavior then we'll have
enough time to react and to take the measures so after all hopefully the main
idea is that we've made a system that make it beneficial for projects to follow
the rules rather than try to violate the rules. I like that mind. I mean that makes
perfect sense with the passport and stuff. Yeah. Passport is a pretty like
basic thing but of course we have it. It's just you know like one of the maybe even
the lowest level personally because one of the nuances with the passport that
that actually it didn't incentivize this project not to onboard new contributors
not on board new donors but to promote the project among the existing community. And that actually
a huge nuance because
using the Passport punishes
projects that are actually onboarding new people into Web3. And we all
understand that we need more people in Web3. And it's not
so good. That's why we actually involved, like, that's
why while designing the system, we've
made it a multi-layer with the several layers of protection.
But still, as of now, we are using Passport.
Hopefully, at some point in time,
after we'll make enough tests, we'll just get rid of the passport because of others layers of security from other layers of protection from civil attacks
rod there can i ask you did you come from like a coding background first and then get into dsci
into D site or did you come from like a science background then get into code
or did you come from like a science background then get into court
well it's kind of a long story my background is in math and computer
science I've learned about blockchain and Bitcoin in 2013 but didn't pay much
attention to it then in 2017 during the first I'd say ICO boom I've been involved
like I've observed what was happening and highly like the idea of applying
those things like DAOs to space exploration but in 2018 i joined my first i became professional space guy i joined the first
like real space company then for four years i've been learning how to do space exploration
and finally in 2022 i startedUNCO when I had enough experience
at the space engineer.
So, and also in 2022, I've learned about DSi.
So since that time, I went full on into Web3.
So I don't know how to say it.
I knew about that for a long time,
but started
to be a crypto native or like web 3 native for the I'm crypto native for the
last three years absolutely perfect rod and and this was some I mean you
mentioned down sorry Roger after what you like a second I think we've got a
bit of a few and I yeah one second let me we go i'll don't
worry rod i'll just if i'm asking a question i'll just hit the mute and then you know unmute yourself
straight away i think we've just got a bit of feedback i'm getting a message there you mentioned
dow's now we're big proponents of dow's we've used them for you know cutting edge sort of
experiments with uh music nfts and things right
we've been heavily into governance for about i would say about four years we've been heavily
in the dows one of the questions that we asked rena earlier uh was about kind of
just being able to have like oversight right so the open source approach i'll i'll tell you exactly
the question that i asked reina because because and i'm only asking you this because you mentioned
dow there we asked reina about your open source approach and the fact that your project does
emphasize like no gates no gatekeepers just collaboration right so our question was like how are you going to
ensure quality control and coordination with things like open source mission designs without
having any centralized oversight and rena touched on it briefly but she did mention about you know
things like universities blah blah and she did mention about DAOs. Have you got any more insight about
how you're gonna like ensure quality control and coordinate successful
coordination with like open source mission designs and things without any
centralized oversight?
Well, there are a lot to, like, you've asked several questions, like how to make things
decentralized, how to make them open source, and those things are kind of different.
First of all, making something open source doesn't imply that it's free for example there is a really cool
software called na10 it's an automation system super popular right now and it's open source but
it's not free so you can download it you can run it on your computer but and like the basic
things would be for free but if you want to make like serious features you have
to pay for them and that's pretty normal in open source community. Including like even Linux while,
well, Linux is completely open source and completely free.
But if you want support or if you need support,
if you need some additional features,
there are tons of companies that provide paid software
or paid support for Linux and it's totally normal.
Or like even databases, for example, PostgreSQL, it's super popular, but there are plenty of
companies that provide commercial services for PostgreSQL for for scaling it and so on.
So that's one of our ideas to like certain things.
While we'll try to make everything as open source as possible,
we will have to sell certain things because, you know,
it has to be sustainable.
The second thing is about decentralization.
Decentralization like-
Yeah, make sure you've got quality control
without having a centralized entity, yeah.
Yeah, so that's a different story.
Like with the space, at some point in time,
you have to centralize things.
So the main idea is that, for example,
now we are starting to work on the open source rover and it could be a pretty
decentralized activity in a sense that there are several entities just coordinating together,
sharing information with each other and just working together.
While at some point in time those entities, they would have to launch it to space and
at that point in time it would have to be centralized because they would have to
comply with the existing regulations and at that point in time those particular
entities they would be in charge so they would be in charge. So they would be in charge of quality control and so on.
So the main idea is to share things as much as possible, to coordinate on a
global scale directly and relying on blockchain. Like for example nowadays I
don't know, like I hope you're familiar with the idea of Creator Coins, I hope you've been following Zora.
Personally, I've been heavily inspired by their ideas for a long time.
For example, that's why we have a project HyperDecide.
Hyper stands for hyper structure. So in terms of decentralization
we can co-inize
certain projects
certain subsystems
coordinate and share
reward among the creators using IP nfts, co-inizing those IP nfts
while again at some point in time it would have to be centralized.
After all, I mean, after all, you have to launch things to space. And
I strongly believe that launching things to space involves rockets. But rockets, it's not just a machine or a robot that flies.
A rocket also implies a spaceport.
And when you launch something to space, you also have to have some protection zones in
case your rocket fails.
And all of those, just launching something to space, would require centralized entities like governments for a long time because like
launching something to space have to involve lots of lots of coordination so it's a multi-level
approach and some things like for example you can decentralize the ground station control
you can decentralize the ground station control in a sense that when you have satellites they fly
over earth and they have to send somehow data to earth so um that could pretty easily be
decentralized in a sense that like those ground stations they do not require a central entity to coordinate efforts.
They are perfectly fine to use blockchain to store information about ground station availability,
about ground station capabilities.
So satellites, or satellite manufacturing companies, they could rely on that data
and they could use a blockchain to directly negotiate the terms like when
your satellite would be flying over the ground station like what would be the
price of using those services in that case it could be pretty centralized so
the main idea is that not everything
could be decentralized.
And in a lot of cases,
especially when we talk about space exploration,
we would have to rely on central entities.
However, we can make a pretty long way,
like for example, with the designing rovers,
designing satellites, in a purely decentralized manner.
While at some level in time,
at some level, at some point in time,
we would have to make physical stuff
and at that point in time,
a centralized entity would be in charge of quality control.
That makes perfect sense.
You know, Rodan, I'll speak to red eye here as well we all know if you've been in blockchain for any time you know we all know the old mantra
of don't trust verify you know and when i look at dc just the general like dc world or the dc
side of blockchain i think that mantra of don't trust verify applies like
it's the ultimate application of that phrase is for dc red eye do you know what i mean by this
right i mean you know that the legal and regulatory uh that any science based like
operation goes through you know you know what i'm talking about red eye right you've been involved in this for many years yeah oh yeah and it's like it's almost like the the the biggest eye of
blockchain with the you know don't trust verify it's it's you know maybe rwas that might apply
to them but probably not as importantly as uh as science right right you know what i mean yeah
as science, right, Red Eye? You know what I mean? Yeah.
It's, yeah, two things that need each other because, I mean, oftentimes, a lot of the
principles and mathematics that go into building these decentralized financial products are rooted in some sort of empirical scientific results or some sort
of experimentation that originally started, you know, relating to scientific discovery,
not maximizing revenues or something like that.
or something like that so yeah i think they're very interwoven
So, yeah, I think they're very interwoven.
so rod i see our friend there uh dsy world who we had on a show the other week right fantastic
show yeah uh they were on and we were talking about sort of like all of the collaborations
that they've had on the go all of like the people who've reached out to them the people that they've
reached out to you know working
with like people within governments and local authorities etc have you guys been approaching
other people and projects whether that's people within government or people within legal entities
or have it has anybody been reaching out to you for like collaborations or integrations or anything
Has anybody been reaching out to you for collaborations or integrations or anything?
Well, first of all, hey, Desai world. I'm not sure who is behind the PFP, if it's Josh or
Gielani. Hey guys. If not, well, anyway, hey to you. In terms of collaborations, that's the core of success.
Collaboration and competition, it's like in YAN.
Obviously, we prefer to collaborate as much as possible, not to reinvent the wheel,
but having a kind of a competition, like a sport competition,
that would help us to push things
forward. So in terms of but yeah overall we are trying to collaborate with as
many projects as possible and I don't know how to answer on the question
because for example LUMCO and HyperDSI are on DCI World, listed on DCI World as projects.
I'm a member of a Moondao.
And Moondao is maybe the biggest and the most active space
DAO.
So in some sense, by the way, in some sense,
the way how things works in web 3 are different while
in a regular world world often you have to sign a non-compete agreement
in web 3. i have a feeling that being part of several organizations makes it beneficial for
all organizations because it allows you to pass the information faster. So from that
perspective we are building a network of connections to a network of partners to
build all sorts of things for space for the moon. It's not always possible because, like,
it's actually kind of crazy with a couple of projects. We have, we are working on kind of
same projects. So for example, our core product is a platform to design space missions.
And a couple of years ago, I figured out that there was almost exact product according to description.
And like half a year ago, I've met with the founder of the project.
We had great conversation and we decided that, first of all, while at first glance our projects our products are
pretty similar if you'll go deeper you quickly realize that they are
significantly different and now we are friends with with the guy so definitely
happy to collaborate projects are approaching us we are approaching projects and sometimes it's a mess like like
even with your competitors you can be friends kind of competitors
oh i love that mate web3 bringing down barriers that we didn't even know existed you know
i like what you were saying about the non-compete clauses that actually makes a lot
of sense yeah Rod just to let you know normally we actually try to run these interviews on like
project interviews for about an hour and we only do that because we've done like 200 and over 250
shows now yeah recorded shows and they're all archived on all of the main streaming platforms and what
we've done is we've noticed over time that the shows we do round about an hour always do the
best numbers whether that's twitter replays or whether that's the spotify streams yeah so and i
appreciate your time i would love to get you back on in the future as well when you've had some more
developments because we love talking blockchain and you're the man to talk to you know and reina was fantastic by the
way red eye i've got one last thing which is like maybe a pardon question uh red eye have you got
anything for rod just before i i brought this last little inspiring the next generation question
little inspiring the next generation question nope go for robo so yeah rod i just wanted to let's say
let's call it inspiring the next generation right what message or advice would you share with like
say like young people uh who might listen to this right now or in the future how what message would you share what advice would
you give to young people who dream of contributing to space exploration but
fail it's something that's just like out of reach for them
Learn how to work with AI, learn how to use blockchain on a daily basis, like how to make
transactions and learn how to speak English.
And with those three skills, it'll be pretty easy for those people to find the job or like
to find the project to contribute with.
Well I do my little part because yeah I'm an English instructor out here in Thailand
helping for 13 years so I'm doing my little bit to inspire the future generations of all sorts
of industries not just their space exploration you know eh rod where if people wanted to catch up
on the ongoings of your project and what's happening and especially with the initiatives
uh the coin i believe that's being launched is that right you guys have got a space tomorrow
i think friday and do you have like a telegram or discord where people could sort of
engage in the conversation or follow what you guys
are up to. Tell us where we can find you.
Well, first of all, yeah, it's great. I have to say that I've spent like three years in
Thailand, mostly on Koh Phangan and like two years on Koh Phangan and a year in Chiang
Mai. And now I'm in Serbia and have to
say that I want to get back to Thailand at some point in time. Regarding launching
the coin we are in the process so there is you can see the PFP of HyperDSI
here so please follow HyperD sci that's our project that we
operate at LUNCO and there you can I'm sorry you can find a link to our
telegram group so if you're interested in general decide please follow hyper decide and
join our group on telegram if you are interested more in space exploration
please follow me and in my bio you can find the link to LUNCO so to LUNCO sim
account and follow LUNCO sim and there you will find the links to our
discord so join either hybrid site
did you where did you learn any Thai while you were living here for three
years Rod oh no unfortunately not it's a bit bit uh too much i know just uh saladic crap and frankly that's all
and too many things to to learn it's not yeah it's not the friendliest language for uh for people
not from this part of the world right especially if you're a latin-based
language like obviously you know english and the main europeans or you know the southern
the southern base languages or even the slav languages it's a ties a killer for us all you know
eh but i rod i would just like to say i really appreciate you coming on
uh i love the fact you could just jump in and you know we could go straight to the civil attack uh
question i really do appreciate your time and i would love to say thanks to reina as well I love the fact you could just jump in and, you know, we could go straight to the civil attack question.
I really do appreciate your time.
And I would love to say thanks to Raina as well for coming on and sharing her knowledge.
Hopefully, Rod, we can get you back on in maybe sort of four, six months time when you guys, you know, you'll be advancing all the time.
Yeah. So maybe four, six months down the line, we'll hit you guys up and see how you're doing and you
can come on and talk about developments would that be okay yeah definitely we've been pretty active
as the project and i've been personally pretty active uh in the decide world if i may say like that so always happy to jump on
on the spaces um having like even an ama on discord like all the time just ping us we're
always happy to provide updates i love it absolutely love it brother and i appreciate
red eye for stepping up as well i
know b barnes has been a little bit busy even though she did want to practice her russian
earlier but guys if you're for people in the audience yeah if you're not following some of
these d side projects you really need to make sure where you are okay so there's hyper d side down
there yeah we've got our friend josh there with dc world give rod a
follow just just open your mind to the fact that this is probably you know the newest sort of
brand new shiny sector in crypto and unlike rwa's or dpin it is actually a real thing uh the world
is actually being changed by these guys and what they're doing and you'd be very surprised at you know how d size becoming very very recognized by
you know people in certain positions or people of power uh it's you're going to see dci in the next
12 to 18 months guys explode beyond belief yeah you definitely need to get into this it's not about making money right
that's not what it's about it's about seeing blockchain being used to really advance core
elements of human life and human society and i am so pumped after the i'm not going to say the
scams but you know the shit we've seen with rwa's you know
some stuff's working but the the bigger picture of rwa's is it's not right deep in was a little
fad for a time even though there are merits behind it dsi is the real deal it's the first
thing i've seen where blockchain is going to make a huge difference to how the world is served and by taking away the overlords
and the authority level and the gatekeeping level so yes guys make sure you follow the
right people in the room yeah rod we really appreciate your time i wish you all the best
for the project and good luck and hopefully i'll catch the space tomorrow, sir. Yeah, but you take care, Roderick. Thank you.
It was a pleasure talking to you and hope to see you tomorrow.
Bye bye.
No worries, mate.
And if you come back to Thailand, hit me up.
I'm always around for friendly visitors.
Right, people.
This has been another episode of Rack FM 69.420,
coming in your ears five days a week.
It is Thursday, sorry, the 31st of July 2025.
We just want to say good night and God bless to every one of you guys.
We love you loads.
Take care and watch what you're doing, people.
Bye-bye now.
