Hi there folks, good morning, good afternoon, good evening. We're just going to have a few more minutes, let more people join and then we'll get the spaces session on the road. Thanks just in a few more minutes.
Also, if anyone out there is happy to share and engage with our spaces, just get a few more people on the spaces today. That would be really helpful. Thank you.
Okay, we'll just let a few people filter in. So today guys, we're going to be speaking with the team at Caviar swap and just get to know the team and a little bit more about the project. So if you want to unmute yourself now guys, Caviar.
Hi there, how's the microphone? It's really good, thank you, really crystal clear. Hi Connor, how's it going? Thanks for having us on, it's great.
at all so we're just going to go through a little bit about you guys and also about the team so let's just start off with let's get more about you as founders so who are Chris and Oliver
I'll go first. I guess I'm Chris Coleman. I've been around for a while actually. I'm a bit of an old timer as Oliver likes to remind me. So I started off, I spent far too long at university doing
physics and computer science and then physics back in the 90s and then decided I need to get you know to actually earn a living so I then spent about 20 years or so working in the city working initially in London and then then out on Singapore
My background was the derivatives trading, currency derivatives trading. I spent a total of about 20 years finishing in around 2017 and sort of, my career culminated. I was a managing director and
I ran currency options globally at Barclays investment bank and I ran, I also ran the electronic FX platform as well which is called Barks and then I kind of moved into D5, I probably let Oliver introduce himself. Yeah, my career is not as exciting as Chris but it's very similar so yeah I still
I studied maths, degree masters at Imperial and London and then about 2002 I slipped into the finance industry with post.com bubble so it was a bit miserable to get a job but I managed to get in and it was great and then I sort of like criticized and slipped into FX
trading within six months to a year I was put on the derivatives desk and then I started specialising in sort of complex more the complex exotic style derivatives and correlation derivatives and all this sort of funky stuff and so I was in London for
Most of my stay, I think it's maybe 11 years, I was trading complex two of this in London at a few tier one banks. And then I moved to Singapore for the last two years, and then in 2000 and the end of 15, 16, I decided I'd had enough of the stay environment of Trabhi.
I wasn't that regulation got me, I wasn't overbothered by that so much. It was the fact that there was no innovation inside the bank. Everything was a spreadsheet, on top of another spreadsheet, VBA on top of another VBA. And you weren't allowed to do anything in crypto because of the PA trading rules. And so that was another reason.
I kind of got really annoyed because I wanted to get involved. Not necessarily cryptobank, but I wanted to start learning some new stuff about finance and machine learning and stuck in the bank wasn't the best place for me. So that's kind of why I decided to jump out. And so then I kind of took my route for, or then that's I've been free now.
the last seven years, been learning everything I can get my hands on, studying multiple companies, finance, firms, and pieces. And here we are, really. Yeah, I'm a person from Bortavu there. I'm just a DJ and marketee.
I guess I guess so yeah what inspired the creation of Caviar Swapley what was the journey to that? I'm trying to think what the genesis was I suppose from my
perspective, we're looking at crypto probably from early, I don't know, maybe sort of 2012, 2011, 2012 I was aware of it whilst I was still working in the bank, I kind of became more and more aware of it, but Bill I Oliver was frustrated because we weren't allowed to
do anything to do with crypto whilst we're in the bank so we're kind of like learning about it and was interested in it but you couldn't sort of roll up our sleeves and get involved and do anything. So when I left, so I quit the industry in the early 2017, so one of the first things that I did is I said, right, I
I want to start learning new things and learn about it. I want to get up to speed on crypto and what's been going on and all this cool stuff I've been hearing about. I've not had the time. The new world of finance. I don't think D5 really existed back then. In 2017 we got involved and
And I know we were like reading lots of white papers and we were investing in bits and pieces of tokens. We were writing a lot of algorithmic trading. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're doing a lot of traditional trading back then. We were trading on centralized exchanges. We were trading on bits down and bitmix and yeah, what else.
and doing more traditional things and traditional trading models on centralized exchanges. But part of the process of doing research throughout that time is that RANIX was one of those things that we came across. And I don't think I was instantly converted in 2017.
team because we were just so busy doing lots of other things but I was definitely on the mailing list. I was definitely on the I think it was a really moving mailing list in 2017. And then so then what happened was the crypto winter started in early 2018 and we just kind of like left crypto for a bit. I think
I think it's fair to say. And didn't revisit it for probably another year and a half or so. We're doing a lot of machine learning now. Yeah, that's right. We're doing a lot of machine learning. And so when we came back to crypto in like probably 2019 or
early 2020. We kind of realized that this whole thing called defi had started to happen after the crypto win to which happened in 2018. And it was like I remember thinking, I remember St. Oliver saying like oh my god, we're such idiots, we kind of stepped back from crypto during the winter.
But what we should have done is we should have kept reading all the white papers and keeping abreast of what was going on and the developments and stuff and actually this defy stuff looks incredibly interesting and it's really smart. Flash loans are like it's like genius how you can do these these atomic things and So then we just started to start looking at again, you know really deep
And that's when the kind of light had a fresh look at what the landscape was like. And that was when really started to take a fresh look at Radix again. And I think I converted you that Radix looks really, really interesting in terms of technology, in terms of the team, etc.
So I think that's... We basically decided made a decision that we should not only should we do something with Radix, not just by, say, the East Raptokum, but maybe we should actually build something on it and get involved and have some skin in the game. Yeah, that's really interesting sort.
Would you say that you regret that tame away from crepto? You feel like you could have been doing you could have buckled down and cannot double down and what you were doing with crepto rather than leaving? I think yeah it would have been it would have been nice I mean to have been involved in defy from much earlier on I mean I
There's a chance that we wouldn't be doing things on Radix now if we were doing D5 back then. I mean that's a great summer as well. I remember looking, one of the worst things that I did was I looked at when we came back to crypto as I looked at some of the prices of some of the tokens that I used to own which I'd sold.
in early 2018 and that was quite self-destroying actually seeing what happened to them. Yeah for sure, I often look back at my portfolio tour, you calculate all the various differences don't you? Yeah, so on that, we'll sort of on that topic, so like why Radix, I would love to understand more of her
overview of like why not a theory on why not Salana what is it about Radix that made you both to say this is the build this is the place to build caviar yeah I mean for us it's this is like this first of all you're you're amazed by the technology you know you you just absolutely you just you look at it you think well this is really fantastic you
you read the whole story and you think, wow, this is wonderful. But then you actually start to play with it, you start to using it, and you understand that it's fast to develop on it. It's the financier's, it's fast to finance it. There's a great community here in Rannix. It's a tomic just like many others.
But then you've got this atomic, atomic, atomicity for, for sharding, you know, you see it's, it's, it's gonna be better, it's getting faster, it's getting meaner. Um, this is obviously that then fail that falls into the scalability in the whole lot. So where, where you, and, and then, and then you, you hit on the last part, the really important part, the most important#
which is writing code on the reddit. The script code is so easy. It's unbelievably easy. So therefore it's because it's so easy, you get an asset-oriented which is much more natural. You start realizing that, wow, this is fantastic. I can choose so much more interesting things and it's
safer because there's so much less chance I'm making blood. And then you compare that to say EVM or Ethereum or salutee. I mean every single one of those things I've said it's completely the opposite on Ethereum. It's slow to develop. It's unsafe because it's so bloody complicated. Finality is slow.
The whole concept of having, you know, jungled up blocks or blocks in order, but then unordered all that, you know, on the inside. Everything gets really, really complicated. And the front of the stack is always a bit furry because, you know, things are getting re-ordered and sampled on the blockchains. It's un-comparable actually.
I think the other thing is the technology is really compelling, consensus is really compelling, but also it's the quality of the team, quality of RDX work, what is now RDX works, or the foundation, it was extremely professionally being run, nothing was being rushed, I know it's frustrating
for some people. But nothing was being rushed, everything was being done in the right way and it's been built with a very long-term view. So it built something which is totally scalable and which has the potential to confer all of Traffy over to DeFi. So I think it was just the high caliber of some of the team members. The fact
that it wasn't being shielded by VCs, etc. Which again, I know is frustrating to some people on the marketing side, but for us it seemed like there's no rush. The winners of DeFi are not going to be decided in the next year or so. This is a long-term project and so you have to be involved in the right platform which can truly scale.
So I think I was converted. I mean, there was obviously in those days, it was like pre-mainnet, pre-alimpia, and there was a lot to be delivered on the timeline, but certainly I had confidence. Actually, in doing a grants program,
I mean, it's astounding the level of the professionality and the quality and the way they're doing these things. It really is, but absolutely bold over by how it reminds me of being back in a top tier one bank again and then speaking to you boss and you think, "Wow, they know what they're doing. They know what they're talking about."
they're looking at all the edge cases, they're not just thinking short term, they're thinking long term. Yeah, I know that that is great to hear actually and just on that, how has the Radex Grant program been so far for you guys? What have you been up to with the team like peers and maps and
Yes, it's been great. It's been great and the biggest thing for us is the support. Obviously the grants, one the four and it's fantastic and so but really sickly what we really really cared about was the support and then sort of giving them then presenting us to the community helps massively but us being able to go to them at any point and saying look guys
we've got this issue with, you know, we've got some legal thing with this jurisdiction or we've got these thoughts and about we want to issue those type of tokens or, you know, we've got this implementation that we can't do properly or how do we engage with the community in a better way to drive RANEx there? I mean, this is what's been absolutely top-notch. Yeah, I think
I was really quite astonished by the, you know, it's probably hard for people on the outside, probably don't appreciate just how intensive actually the grants programme is. I mean, we have master classes all the time, there's just a phenomenal amount of material, there's a phenomenal amount of learning and sharing of knowledge from obviously
extremely busy people at RDX works and it's testament to the quality of the RDX works and the team as the amount of effort that they put into this. It's really, really, really impressive. Yeah. I don't know if we know. I don't know if anyone knows.
Sorry, I don't know if anyone knows on the call but you literally can get a 1-1 with anybody in RDX you want. At any point in the week you can put in a 1-1 and have a call with Pierce or Adam or Sophie or Jacob or wherever you want and it's incredibly powerful. To be honest I say, "Hey Pierce, I've got this problem." Obviously he doesn't want you to waste your way
It's amazing. I would say also the other thing is you know you're not an isolation obviously we had the event the boot camp together but you know just despite other teams who are
also part of the grants program with us and we're all extremely close now, you know, it's a really great community amongst all of us, there's a lot of sharing and mutual support from each other. It's just a really, really great process. No, that is great to hear and also like, you know, with your experience
I can be sorry on you go no please kind of please and I was gonna go and add a different question there please on you go oh I was gonna say oyster sounds great oyster swap you've got uneas you've got unea you've got sushi and we've got caviar we've got oyster swap
next meme coin as well. And actually that brings us on to a name. Like why did you name it Kavi? Who came up with that? So we started with Kavi on 9. So we came to, so we have a company that had a Singapore which is called Invariance. It's like a trade
in algorithmic private hedge fund invariants. And we, an anagram of invariants is Kavya 9. So we thought, well, what we'll do is we'll call our crypto arm Kavya 9 and we'll just, that's our branding name and we're like, well, that sounds a good enough reason just because it's an anagram, I was real business name and so we
We started with Kavya 9 and after a while we realized we're going to produce other things and Kavya 9 is just about staking and validating. So we'll just call ourselves Kavya. We're going to produce another project and so we ended up just jamming Kavya and swapped. The name evolved a little bit over the last
So, you know, so, yeah, caviar nine is fine just making I think and then we said well, we actually Caviar just sounds cleaner doesn't it sounds and then actual fact the software development company is called caviar labs So then so we we kind of have the caviar brand I suppose and so so so we renamed these sort of
caviar act. Maybe she put that to the community actually. Yeah, put that to Twitter pool. And of course, and then of course, as we said, alluded to early, of course, the other big swaps out there are Uni Swap and then sushi
swaps why not caviar? Exactly. We'll thank you at consensus handing out caviar, personalized caviar for everyone probably. Yeah, there's really budget for that. So let's chat a little bit more about
like caviar itself. So how does it differentiate itself from competitors? Like possibly explain more about caviar engine V2 or the single pull liquidity. Like I would love to hear more about that. Yeah, I can talk about that from a technical point of view. Realistically we developed it because we wanted
to give the user the simplest experience. When you go to the bank and you've posited some funds in a bank, the bank manager doesn't ask you, the hotel or wherever it doesn't ask you to put down two currencies at the same time. It's almost sort of nonsense to call this this. But then you look at the complexity of actually what happens underneath or how I
happens behind when you're depositing why you deposit two tokens at the same time, one's got collateral, the other one doesn't. And why is that? Why is everything traditional pairwise? Why do we have to have one that's got some use in the other one that doesn't? And so we went down that route, we wanted to make sure that we could actually truly develop single
So you could do it in a non-safe way, it's really easy, you just create a pool and you start saying people are going to add and remove. But then you're open to the risk that someone put some rubbish into the pool and then sort of rugs on that rubbish token and then everybody else suffers from it.
So then you end up the next question which is, well, how do you make that fair? And so that's what the whole process of going from V1 to V2 was and then we went to V2.2 which was some sort of technicality. But so what how it works now is that you get air drops
random token and if random tokens in caveat swap you can add random token as a liquidity as liquidity and that's great but that doesn't mean that you then can influence every pool in caveat swap. Someone has to have put some xrd against that token and they could have put their x
So it gets quite complicated underneath, but really the end user has this, the two end users, the first end users, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader, the trader#
So the liquidity provider, he just puts one token in and he goes, "Wow, great, thanks very much." Super simple. And then the guy that puts the XRD in, he's got to say, "Well, what tokens are my interests in having risk in?" I mean, I'm interested in having risk in caviar, I'm interested in having risk in random token, I'm interested in having risk in.
And so therefore he's defined he's only put in one token and then it's and then in that system that system now works together You've got people that can then swap there's some way that you can swap and a some sort of correct price and some mechanisms and what happens But yeah, get a bit complicated underneath but it's it's pretty your
original because of the complexity of the pools underneath. And it's not like pairwise, so it's much deeper. Yeah, and I think it's also, it is obviously it's more complex than a traditional decks, but I think it's one of the sort of, it's something that can be done on radix, which would be quite hard to
in a gas efficient way on ethereum for example. Absolutely. The smart contracts, you know, there's more maths and there's more stuff going on underneath the hood and we should probably make it quite expensive on ethereum but actually makes it a realistic proposition on radix. Yeah, another exact brilliant case will have radix wins
Yeah, so essentially the building experience is just so much more superior on radics like when people ask me like Why why radics it's kind of boil it down and it's so simple and it seems so basic, but I just kind of say it's just better, you know
There's so much content out there that you can digest and try to explain to people and these are just to normal people every day people and like why are you working for this company and not for another one? And then it's simply just better. They experience and what we have to offer is so much more superior to that of Salana or Ethereum and yes, it has taken
you know a little bit longer to build and push out but it's coming then it's it Babylon is almost here. And the front the front end of Radix is brilliant you know it's to simply script the front end effectively for the developers which is the community is easy and simple to use and yet underneath what's going on in
underneath is very complicated. It's very complex. It's been a lot of work going underneath. But the experience that the developers have is a wonderful easy use of a tool. And that's the same kind of principles that we try to apply to carry our swap. The end user, it's simple what they do. They just deposit
it one token and the trade just swaps something. But underneath it's really complicated but you can get off the scale of that. It's done properly and that's fine. Yeah, yeah, not for sure. And just kind of moving on to this
So how do you see caviar swap contributing to the growth and expansion of the radix ecosystem as a whole in the long term? Yeah, I mean, well, you know every platform
It needs an ecosystem and it needs the DAP ecosystem, it needs DeFi and what is sort of the fundamental component of DeFi is having an exchange or having a DeX or an automated market maker or could be an all-the-book exchange or something.
So, Kavi Swap is obviously a DEX. There's a few other DEXs as well. Obviously, there's a Zossi Swap who are part of the volunteer program who is a Swap and then is spread with his Alpha DEX. But yeah, and we see ourselves as being a fundamental part of the DeFi ecosystem on Radix.
Hopefully we've been around for quite some time now. We've had our centralized decks prototype out there for quite a while as well. We built up quite a following. We'd like to see ourselves as still being sort of meaningful and relevant and playing an important role in the defa ecosystem of Rannickson in the future.
And we do have plans to keep building the product line out over time as well. Yeah, for sure. And on that, are there any upcoming milestones or partnerships, developments that caveat
what users are in the defy community can kind of look forward to in the future. Well, I mean, of course, we're looking forward to Babylon. Yeah, of course. That's the main focus. We've really got to make sure that's absolutely
And then also there's going to be a lot of stuff that comes out of Babylon and people shouldn't underestimate what's going to happen. There's a lot of stuff that's going to happen. It's going to be very noisy, it's going to be messy, it's going to have lots of bits and pieces all over the place. And so as in projects, different interesting projects are going to start and perhaps fail or start and extend.
take off and so that we want to see a little bit to assess what's the next steps moves. But we do have some... Yeah, so I think, like, so obviously, you know, we don't just have Kaby-R swap, right? I mean, we've built a few things over the last year or so.
The two fundamental pieces that need to be at Babylon and that we need to make sure a bulletproof are caviar swap and desor the aggregator. We do have a couple of other projects as well which we hope to have ready around the time of the release, not major projects.
certainly, certainly, certainly add-ons. But, you know, are they caviar add-ons or food add-ons? Well, well, they would be food. They would be food add-ons. So, yeah, we do intend to have some, you know, you're not just going to see an exact copy of the centralized versions of caviar swap and
and D-Saw, just having the decentralized versions of Babylon, they will be different as well. We'll have some features in Kabyas. You'll see it like there'll be a novel bonding curve in there and there'll be an interesting way in which we do fees, etc. But we will also have a couple of
of minor product releases to come along with them as well. What we can't have is we can't be like releasing four or five major projects or at the same time because that will just be a disaster and it will just be, it's just not the way that you do these things. We do have plans to roll out various products
later this year and into next year as we start to go along the product taxonomy. One thing that we're interested in is that we're definitely interested in derivatives because that's our background, investable indices, things like this, structure products. We have this heaps of stuff that we want
to do, but what we're not going to do is we're not going to rush a whole bunch of product out, which is not properly finished or not robust for Babylon. So, so D-Saw and Kaby Uswalk with a couple of extras, that's what we're aiming for. Yeah. Yeah, no that sounds good and obviously
with Babylon coming out there a lot going on in the ecosystem. So now I'm kind of Babylon happens, like let's say that Babylon goes live. So in the long term say three to five years if you can think ahead like from Babylon where would you like to see caviar like in terms of team size usage like things like that.
What would be the dream? The dream yeah The dream is I'm sitting on a boat and you're running at all Chris Some cocktails into heater. No, well, I mean, you know, I mean the dream is obviously that that radix is you know
It's like the most important protocol in all of crypto and you know, yeah, so I can do a told you so to everything exactly and you know vast amounts of tradify is starting to migrate into defy and you know size called chunk of that is being done on baddocks yeah, that we're playing a major part in that that would be a bit more
to change products from the any of things like spa to stretch products and who knows how sport we might dream up. So yeah, I mean, we already have quite a few members in the team already at Cavi are here. But yeah, I mean, you know,
I would like to say that would have 15 or 20 or 30 or 100 people in Kavya spot but it totally depends on how the industry is going to go and how the sort of outlook. First of all, we need to get our crypto winter and we need sort of regulators to be kind and things to stop moving. So basically,
I guess the thing is that we're just keen. We're keen to build stuff and we've got loads of ideas and so we'll just keep building and keep rolling out new products. I guess that's definitely actually one thing. We're never afraid of seeing somebody who comes along and takes an idea that we've, we've, we've, it was on our list because our list is so long.
And no one's inventing anything new here. This is basically nearly everything's been done before. So it's great. We just love seeing ecosystem grow. We've got a million ideas. We just want to keep going and deliver some exciting stuff.
off. I think Dan Hughes would be happy and curious to be standing alongside you, telling everyone I told you so. Yeah, that's going to be great. And just this final question before we can go on to community questions, do you have any tips or advice as
founders to building their own project, whether it be on radics or saline or ethereum, anything like that. Well, I mean tips for building, like a gift tips for building on radics. I mean, first of all, the community is fantastic, right? So the first thing that you should be doing, I would suggest, is just reach out to people.
because there's so many helpful people in the community who are willing to share their knowledge, lots of potential collaborators. We started, I'm trying to think, I've losing track of time now, when was it? It was in 2021 or so, and that we started getting involved in run-ex just before Maynet.
We relied on all kinds of people as we are getting our validators ready and learning the ropes and radics and the community back then was super, super helpful. Those are the advice that we got from people. When we were basically validators, there was so much assistance coming from the other node runners.
And even today, it's still there, both from the node runners, but also just from the grants program you realize there's so much community amongst all the people working on different projects. And this is the thing, right? Like everyone's in it for the
long term and everyone's in it for the success of VADICs. Obviously everybody wants their own team to be successful but they want everybody else to be successful too and that for there to be a great ecosystem. So yeah, just reach out, reach out to people. There's already a lot of good resources out there already but just reach out on Discord or Telegram. Don't be shy to collaborate
Right. Now we love it when anybody comes to them contacts us and asks us any questions or if we can help out anyway. Someone who's picked us the other day, they've got some Web 3 wallet problem they can connect. It's just a bit of JavaScript, one of the guys that sent over. It just helps fix it. Now that site works, you think, well great.
Did it six months ago? You're doing it today? Perfect. If we can help you, it's brilliant. Any advice from me, I would say, is to try and idea fast, fail, fast, fail forwards, be quick, iterate, keep going, be kind, be nice, find other people to have the same passionate and just never give in.
and just keep going. If you just don't stop eventually you'll find something that sticks or you'll learn a hell of a lot of stuff and you've met a lot of really interesting people on the way. Yeah, no for sure. And just before we actually go into questions we've got about like 15 minutes later.
So is there anything that you would like to mention about the project or anything that we haven't covered just yet in questions or even just a little note to the community? Like is there anything you'd like to say? Thank you to the community. Yeah, I mean we've been shot really at how successful
You know, we started building, so I'm trying to think when do we start building raddit? Raddit was April March? Yeah March, April March, we started building stuff about a year or so ago in essentialised fashion.
Because we realized that there was going to be quite some gap before smart contracts came out. So obviously the guys at Doge had already done the first centralized decks. And we wanted to do something interesting, which was we built the Rade Investible message board, because we wanted to give people something fun and interesting to do in the absence of
not contracts. And then later on we built, we built Kābiya Swāk and we built this. So, we've just been, for all of those projects, we've just been shocked at how they've been received and how people have responded to it and a passionate about them. So, yeah, just super thankful about the support that we've got
for the community and I would say just reach out as well, any feedback, absolutely any feedback or ideas from the community is invaluable. Yeah. Yeah and to anyone else listening like if you do need any help just jump on the
score, or telegram, our team members will reply to you as soon as they can and they're usually quite helpful with the things that you bring up. So they'll give you a great end-to-death answer as well. So let's move on to questions from the community. Is there anyone out there that would like to speak or ask a question to the guys at Kaviar?
Just let me know raise your hand. Do to be afraid. Yeah, do not be afraid. We've probably spoken to everybody anyway. On the VC, but we have adopted it. Yeah, the other thing is that I don't know if you realize this.
But we've on our Telegram channel for quite some time we would have like these sort of live video sessions. So we would be, you know, all of them would be in the Bangkok office and he would just be just be just turned his camera on basically on the Telegram channel.
and sort of, you know, quite a few people would join in today. And I'll I'll I'll I'll log in from Singapore periodically as well. And we just we'll end up just like brainstorming amongst ourselves and talking about things and then then two or three people would join in and sometimes people would share their cameras or they just be on audio and we'd have actually great chats and it was really yeah.
Well that's a good one. Do you still do that? Yeah we still do it right now again. I did it two days ago but yeah I should perhaps do it a little bit more often. Yeah I'll need to jump on one of those I've never actually been on so I'd like to have a conversation with you guys. Maybe I'll just share my face for once. Can't do that over spaces.
Yeah, the only thing is that we are in Asia, so we're obviously we're in slightly different hours, so it's yeah, it's 10 p.m. here for us. 10 p.m. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,#
you guys. Just the last sort of call for any questions you probably answered all of them for everyone here so if there's anyone over there that would like to ask questions just read your hand. Any question? No question is stupid so. Yes exactly. Not until we've heard it anyway. And otherwise if people are
If people are shy then they can just step into our telegram channel, or caveat exotic. Yeah folks, if you've got any questions and you don't want to appear on the species just join the telegram for a caveat and I'm sure the guys will be choked to you as soon as possible. But listen, worth no questions, I'm so grateful for you guys jumping on their species.
session and thanks again for your time it's been really insightful and it's been great chatting to you cheers Conner thank you very much. Thank you very much.