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Real World Use-Cases of Blockchain Aggregation
Recorded: April 14, 2025 Duration: 1:00:21Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, panelists explored the evolving landscape of Web3, emphasizing the importance of accessibility and user experience in driving growth. They highlighted trends such as the integration of decentralized finance with traditional finance, the potential of tokenizing real-world assets, and the need for seamless payment solutions to facilitate mass adoption of cryptocurrency.
Full Transcription
Thank you. you you
you you Hey, what's going on everyone?
Hope you guys are having a wonderful Monday morning or afternoon or evening thus far.
Hopefully we're about to make it just a little bit better.
But before we do that, let's go ahead and kick things off with the usual mic check.
Guys and gals in the audience, if you can hear me right now, please give me some thumbs
ups, give me some hearts, give me some kind of indication that the audio is in fact reaching you right now.
Thank you, Timmy. Thank you, MJ. Thank you, Emmy. All right, guys, I think we're good to go. I think
we're pretty set on that. I appreciate you guys for always pulling up to help me out with that.
But guys, before we start, please give us just a few more minutes to get everything set up on
the back end. But in the meantime, kindly go to the bottom right hand corner.
Give us a like, comment, and retweet on today's spaces.
And we will be starting the discussion in just a few more minutes.
Thank you, everybody. yeah y is
is Oh oh and
and foreign
oh la mano arriba Yo, how's it going everyone and welcome back to Egg Lair, the cross-chain settlement layer
that is aggregating all of Web3. My name is Ice and I'll be your host for today's show.
Now, ladies and gentlemen, as more
people find their way to the world of Web 3, applications and utilities have become more
important than ever. But equally, if not just as important to those, is accessibility. And we all
remember our first exposures to crypto, right? I'm sure, Timmy, you're sick and tired of hearing this story already.
But for most of us, it was a lot of information to take in,
from the different wallets to choose from, to on-ramping and off-ramping,
to learning what the heck gas is.
Only then to find out everything that you just learned was for a specific chain.
And okay, maybe I'm over-exaggering the stress here a little bit,
but the point is that for many of us, it was a pain in the butt. All right. And I know the number of folks
in our space is as limited as it was, because people simply gave up due to the arduous learning
process. But fast forward to 2025, things are now different. Onboarding has been streamlined more than ever. Applications are
easy to access and some are even providing real world use cases with its utility. And this
specifically guys is what we will be diving into today. The real world use cases of blockchain
aggregation. Let's talk about this guys. But first let me check in with my co-host from the ag layer team what's
going on diana how are you doing today hey gm ice doing well happy monday to everyone excited to be
here and hit the ground running on this space yes indeed let's go let's go and let me go ahead and
check in with my other dear host also from the ag layer Lair team. What's up, Timmy? How are you doing, bro? GM. Happy Monday.
Happy Monday.
Happy Monday, indeed.
You know, starting off the week strong with some green candles on the charts.
Vibes are up.
We keep it going.
But thank you so much for joining us, Timmy and Diana.
Let's go ahead and check in with some of our lovely panelists joining us today.
So first off, I want to say hello to Paul, representing Somnia.
What's up
paul how are you doing hey fox again i'm having a good one it's a bit late here but still good for
me yeah for sure um just uh just just to check in with you what what time is it there for you
right now because uh it is just past noon for me over here over in the eastern time zone to be
honest it is 5 p.m so it's not that late i just
i start work at like 6 a.m so by the end of the day now i'm starting to get it slow my brain's
starting to get a bit crunchy but i'll get through it wow yeah a 6 a.m start time would do that to
you but hey paul we appreciate that hopefully you get us some uh get some rest right after this get
some get some delicious meal going but pa, we appreciate you for joining us.
And let's go ahead and say hello to the representative joining us from GVNR.
And by the way, let me know if I'm pronouncing the project title correctly there.
But yeah, welcome to the stage, GVNR. How are you doing?
Yeah, we're doing well. We're doing well, GM.
Yeah, so we call GVNR Governor, which is a nice kind of ring to it.
So it's good. Really pleased to be here, being a big fan of the Aglaire.
I've spoken with Sandeep on this a few times over the years,
so it's very cool to finally connect.
Gotcha.
Governor, you know, I've always wanted to do the thing.
I've always felt that it wasn't applicable for me.
I always felt that it wasn't applicable for me i always felt wrong but can i can i take this opportunity and use the use the term gov for the first time when i when i when i pass you the mic that would be so so delightful you can you can indeed i mean
crypto we've got some serious stuff to talk about but also we've got to have a little bit of fun
that's why people have been so kind of enamored and taken with meme coins.
So, you know, let's change the world of finance and also have a little bit of fun doing it.
My man, that's what I'd like to hear. Thank you for joining us, Gov. All right, pulling off that one already immediately. Appreciate that. And of course, let's go ahead and say
hello to our last panel who's here. Returning champion definitely did not just hop off a call right
before this. It's been a
minute. Gage, how are you doing?
I'm having a bit of
deja vu.
You know,
waking up at 7, working all day.
The guy that started
at 6 beat me.
I feel you, brother. But we need you there.
Right? Aguilera.
What a banger.
Right? Actually, Gage
is actually the engineering guys.
He's doing some prep work for Cross Train.
So, you know,
we might be a customer. See how it goes.
Ooh.
Potential avenue of networking.
We're laying it down once again. Well, you know
what, Gage, you know, it's a week. So for context, we were just on a space together, literally nine
minutes ago. So that's why we're having this back and forth. But Gage, thank you for joining us
once again. And that being said, guys, let's go ahead and kick off today's discussion, man. And
we would like to do so by asking you folks, our dear, our dear panelists, what would you guys say are some real world use cases or
quality of life improvements that comes with blockchain aggregation? So please take a moment,
think about what you want to say. And at any point, if you want to join in the conversation,
simply use the bottom right hand panel to raise your hands like so. And of course,
if you have anything to say in a direct response
to what the previous speaker just said, keep those hands raised, but also hit me up with one of these
waving hand emojis, and I'll do my best to skip the line and send you the mic ASAP. And for
everybody else in the space listening in right now, please go back to the bottom right-hand corner,
give us that like, comment, and retweet on today's spaces as I hand the mic back to my man, Timmy, to kick things off.
What are your thoughts on this, Timmy?
Yeah, I think one of the biggest real-world use cases that we'll see, and it's kind of where the industry is going.
So we, at one point, there was a lot of, let's say, like decentralized finance and and then traditional finance but there wasn't really a middle ground and now we're seeing more and more uh like people
in the industry institutions coming to the space and there's a lot of opportunity especially when
i think about things like rwas and tokenizing real world assets um when those assets are put on chain, even like traditional stocks and equities
to represent ownership,
those, if they are on a single blockchain,
they'll suffer from the lack of liquidity
and just a poor user experience
of being able to trade those assets.
If you're thinking about like lending,
real world assets on chain,
really you want aggregation so that
people on different chains, users of different chains can still just do what they want to do
with those assets. So I think that's probably one of the biggest, most exciting ones to me when you
think about how big RWAs could be um and really solving the
user experience problem and access to liquidity that way
very interesting and sorry excuse me and right before we pass it over to diana i just wanted
to follow up on that real quick to me so you mentioned the fragmentation fragmentation
fragmentation issues currently existing between chains right now.
That's something that we all see and feel, depending on what DEX is it you guys use.
But I want to kind of double down on the real estate bit.
So in your opinion, to me, what is the current problem?
Or perhaps what is the main focus on discussion surrounding property ownership via RWA right now?
ownership via rwas right now i think one of the biggest things we see is um property is very
illiquid obviously like to buy property is really uh a challenge and then once there's projects out
there that are looking to basically tokenize a property and then like get fractional ownership
and what that does so
if you think about traditional markets what you have for property value and i know like
it doesn't seem like it when you look at property prices but because they're illiquid they trade at
a discount where if you open up liquidity there's um you could actually increase the asset value because now people can trade and do more things.
I think when people own property, it's also, I mean, it's possible to get loans and collateralize your property assets.
And I think it's possible, but it's not easy.
It's possible, but it's not easy.
Putting it on chain will make it a lot, lot easier.
And there'll be a lot more transparency, even for the lenders and borrowers of going, okay, who actually owns this?
What's the value of the assets?
And it just, I mean, you see all the time problems where people inflate their assets because it's hidden and very opaque.
assets because it's hidden and very opaque. And it's tough to see through where when you start
to put them on chain, the picture becomes a lot clearer. And there's a lot, I would say,
less risk or if not less risk, at least more informed risk when it comes to the real estate
market. Interesting. I never thought about it like that, but it is quite true you know real estate
being properties that are very illiquid and because of that especially especially with
what's going on in the world right now properties are very very difficult to sell and more and more
often than not now we're seeing uh so this is something that was actually very popular in the
early 2000s and then during the during the 20 years between the early 2000s and now, the rules have become more
strict. But now with blockchain RWAs and blockchain aggregation coming into play, I do see this
becoming more accessible. And of course, what I'm talking about is refinancing, right? When you go
and refinance your property, maybe you bought it 10 years ago, maybe your mortgage has already
matured. You're going to go back to your bank, say, hey, these are all the upgrades I've done to my property. Let's get into discussion. Let's refinance this. Let me take
some money out so I can proceed with future investments and hence refinancing the mortgage.
But it's just like you said to me, there's a lot of intricacies with this. And over the past 20 to
25 years, refinancing has become a lot more difficult with stress tests and has been a lot
more dangerous,
dare I say, just with the world economics going around. But Diana, you have your hand up. I would
love to pass the mic over to you. Yeah, I love that example, Timmy. I think I'll always go back
to kind of the end user simplified UX quality of life improvement. Like I think we're still in this sticky time in like
Web3 and crypto where like, yes, you can make payments like peer to peer, you know, faster and
cheaper on chain. But it's still kind of tricky. Like it's still sometimes, you know, when I'm
trying to explain to friends who use like Cash App or Venmo or PayPal or something like they're like, I just don't understand the need for this one.
Like, you know, I have these other easier solutions.
So I think once we get to a point where like some of these like payment applications can use aggregation so that you don't even have to think about like what chain you're on or what
assets you're using. Like, what if, you know, you could pay rent with whatever assets you have
and just kind of click a send button? Or what if like you could, you know, pay an invoice with
whatever token on whatever chain that you have without having to like worry about like bridging
and test transactions and things like that. Or even like high ticket items, right? Like if you're
purchasing something and like you have kind of different assets pooled in different areas, like
just being able to use one click to kind of pay for something or like transact for
something that like kind of pools together your assets instead of having to like bridge and swap
and all this and that. So I think like that's kind of what I'm most looking forward to,
just like an experience that using crypto is like as seamless as using the internet.
that using crypto is like as seamless as using the internet.
You know, you can make a payment as easy as opening a new browser tab.
Like that's kind of going to be like a big quality of life upgrade,
I think for a lot of people.
And yeah, I think like once we get to that point,
we'll start to see like a lot more mass adoption
from like folks who don't even
use crypto right now.
Paying invoices with any token.
You know, Diana, that sounds like that sounds like global interoperability to me, to be
honest.
And while I have you here, Diana, let me ask you this.
I know you mentioned a couple of a couple of similar services before.
So in your mind, Diana, are there any notable companies that have tried to undertake this exact task?
And if so, what challenges do they run into?
And of course, basically what I want to ask is what advantages does AgLayer have over these companies?
Yeah, I think like companies like Stripe are starting to tackle this, like, they created a product that's like pay with crypto that like, anyone, that's a huge step forward and awesome. But
Yeah, I think companies like Stripe are starting to tackle this.
there's going to be like, so many other chains or, or assets that you people might want to use
to pay with crypto, right? Like, so I think like, they've made a huge step in like, that direction.
It's kind of just like taking a little bit further and like having more supported
chains and assets.
I'm honestly quite looking forward to that because if I quite frankly, if I had the ability
to do that, I think that's I think that is the first step of true self sovereignty.
Right, Diana, because like right, we're bounded by our geographical
locations, like, well, where country do we live in, this and that. But if we actually had the
ability to pay invoices with any token, anything that we do have in our wallets, then technically
speaking, I can enjoy this life at anywhere in the world. And I don't have to worry about that
because I don't have to think, oh, I got to convert this back to that curve. I got to do all
this Forex exchanges and then bring it back to my home country all that all those problems become immediately dissolved
so looking forward looking to the future forward to the future that it brings but paul you got
your hand up i would love to hear your thoughts on this my man go for it
yes to kind of echo what i said, I strongly agree with the UX stuff.
For me, so we're building like a high performance L1 blockchain, but I honestly think users shouldn't even care.
They're running a blockchain. It should be completely transparent infrastructure.
People are just going to apps, having fun, clicking buttons, doing the things they need to do at the end of the day.
So we focus a lot on the games industry, and I think that's a huge place where kind of aggregation technology really helps, because ultimately the end user doesn't want to go to some random exchange, buy some gas token, put it into their wallet,
register some random chain, get there and then play a game. That's just such a bad user experience.
But even a Web3 native, you just want to go to a website, download a video game, click play, and you get to play it, basically.
I think that's the space for me where I'm most excited about these kind of interoperability and aggregation layers,
where you can just go to an app, play it, and have fun,
rather than having to go through loads of steps and massive rigmarole.
I think that, for me, is going to be a big unlock, not just for gaming, for every single application across the space.
not just the gaming for every single application across the space.
I'm obviously very focused on the gaming sector.
I'm obviously very focused on the gaming sector.
And so for me, it's a huge unlock there just to really improve the UX,
make it super simple for users at the end of the day.
You know, I love that your focus is in the gaming sector, Paul.
So I think you might enjoy this little reference callback here.
So you mentioned end users don't want to jump from chain to chain
just to exchange a little bit of currency and to pay for gas in order to do this and that.
You know, the moment you said that, Paul, it immediately reminded me of those arcades.
You know, back in the day, we can just dump in quarters for arcades and we'll be having a grand old time, right?
Whether you're playing foosball or whatever game, it doesn't matter. But nowadays, arcades, they do this thing that now they require us to exchange our cash into their cards or tokens or some kind of credit system that they have.
And basically, it allows us to charge our cards in which we use in their platforms.
And I think there is a little degree of similarity between exchanging currencies to different chains and using that as gas.
And I think when it first came out, it was exciting.
The novelty was great.
But over time, I think a lot of gamers, a lot of consumers
really got upset at this kind of structure, right, Paul?
So in your mind, what do you think arcades,
like the ones that we just described,
how can arcades circumvent that problem?
And then we can take that and kind of peer it
through the lens of Web3.
Yes, I think an arcade is kind of a different experience right because you're going
to a place and you're walking there and you kind of feel like you're part of this thing
the fact that you have to buy the token in the arcade is annoying but it's not really a deal
breaker if you think about digital mediums like you don't you're not going to an arcade and you don't want to get a specific token.
It's just a lot of steps for an end user.
And so for me,
there'd be some kind of unified system in an arcade
where I can just go up there,
tap my phone and instantly pay for the arcade machine
where I'm going to have to go get some random tokens.
But I don't think the fact that arcades
have these random tokens is a deal breaker
because they're like an experience.
Whilst when you're digitally using stuff, it's all about friction friction points like if you look at video games if you make someone download
a game you get huge drop off if you make someone wait more than like 10 seconds for something to
load you get massive drop off and these friction points of me having to go some find ransom
find some random currency gets a random gas token it's a massive friction point which can cause
massive drop offs and those people not play your game so you need a unified payment method where you can just pay for all of
this stuff and not have to worry as an end user and that's the massive unlock i think
uh for the whole space that's not just not gaming by the way i think that's everything in the space
i agree with you man i think i think this kind of um the friction point discussion it definitely
involves uh definitely applies to every single niche in our space.
Let's be real here.
It's Web3, right?
Our attention.
You guys know exactly how fickle our attention spans can be in Web3.
So yeah, limiting friction points, definitely something that we have to take note on.
But hey, Gov, you got your hand up?
I would love to hear your thoughts on this, my friend.
Go for it.
So we've built this already. we call it we call it governor just pay and it lets you buy anything with any token on any chain um there's a dynamic
pricing position that you can use that calculates what the value is of a token in a particular
market puts an uplift on that depending on kind of the liquidity
that's available to that,
and then kind of lets you just get on with your life.
So if you want to go and pay for something
that's on base chain and you wanna use Bitcoin,
you can do that.
If you wanna inscribe an ordinal on Bitcoin,
and this is a world's first that we did about seven weeks ago with our
coin list, uh, campaign.
We inscribed an ordinal on Bitcoin on layer one on the mother chain and used
a stable coin on polygon to actually do that.
So we, we put value from polygon directly into Bitcoin and transcribed a layer one transaction on the mother chain instantly.
So this is completely, completely possible today and it is working today.
It's available. You can you can do that.
We've also got another product that we've launched called JustSwap, which lets you change any gas token into any gas token,
any token into any other token, and that is becoming a reality. The challenge with that
is liquidity pools, it's access to various different positions, and there's still an
element of bridging that is required. Where we want to get to, and where we need to get to and where we need to get to is we need to be able to get to a
peer-to-peer frameless permissionless uh bridgeless situation where you are actually inscribing the
value on the chain that you've got and it's recognized on the chain that you've got it
and you're able to do stuff on the chain that is where you want to do things.
And this is going to become more and more important as we get more and more chains.
And we're going to get more and more chains because with the latest sway, the regulation,
enterprises are going to be unlocked.
And so we are going to see more and more chains come through as everything comes through.
more and more chains come through as everything comes through.
And, you know, I was just kind of catching up on the AgLayer site
in terms of unified liquidity, kind of looking at the ecosystem.
And the ecosystem has grown significantly since I last looked.
You know, we've got really, really amazing chains like Wirex Pay, which is a through enterprise level chain
underpinned by Wirex and helping Wirex do everything that they want to do as an app,
as a Web2 app, but on Web3 as well.
And having that ability to connect that value there with other value on Polygon mainnet or ZK or something else is going to be just absolutely critical.
But I think we need to be realistic in terms of when we're talking about this aggregation vision that we've got this moment in time.
this moment in time and that's the uh the the fragmentation of chains and the the breakdown
of that fragmentation is happening but it's forming clumps clumps of chains um you know we
used to describe chains as being islands of value and now it's more like continents the value that value is clumping together in terms of ibc in terms of ag layer
in terms of um you know shared sequencing etc etc etc there's going to be a number of different
things that are really coming to the table that really bring things together and i think we'll
find that we'll get ecosystems so i think that gaming chains will clump together
and say, look, we're all on the same kind of ag layer
on gaming chains.
You know, I think we'll get car manufacturers
clumping together and forming kind of ecosystems
of chains that are clumped together in that respect
or potentially industries on a more vertical basis.
For instance, the global trade receivable finance you might
get a shipping company and an influencing company and a warehousing company all coming together and
forming like an agla but the reality is is that the technical technical challenges of
interconnecting every single chain with every single other chain can only really be done if you abstract to a higher level.
And that is technically possible, but you lose some of the composability issues that happen when you do that.
So, you know, the reality is, is that you cannot do anything interoperable with Bitcoin without running at Bitcoin speed.
And Bitcoin block speed is only 10 minutes.
So it's pretty slow when you're doing stuff on Bitcoin, but it is,
it is totally viable.
It is working today.
We've built it.
Love everybody to come and try it out.
Go and create a portfolio, go and inscribe the world's very first ordinal
on the Bitcoin blockchain and use a stable
coin of your choice man gov that was some loaded alpha that you just dropped there you know 10
years for a transaction with bitcoin is definitely a little bit too long for my liking but but i do
think it is uh it is the most secure for a reason, right?
But all jokes aside, I think
this is a real problem.
Having to aggregate these chains,
we adopt both the pros and
cons by doing so. And I think this is
definitely something that's worth thinking about.
And I actually had
a question pop up, and I wanted to throw this over
to you, Diana. And this is going to be
piggybacking off what both Gov and Paul said earlier.
And that is about user experience and it's about friction points.
So I want to hear your thoughts on this, Diana.
What do you think is the biggest friction point right now when talking about user experience and onboarding?
What is that friction point that seems to be losing the most of onboarding people on?
Yeah, I think like, there's a lot, and I a lot of companies and
teams are like working to reduce these friction points. I mean,
I'm just thinking like, if I'm trying to get like my normie
friends, like, you know, on chain chain transacting on chain it's like okay they first have to go to
like a centralized exchange and like kyc most likely and um like buy some tokens so like that's
kind of a friction point but let's say you just like create a wallet and then i send them some
money or something like that i think like a big friction point is one of them
is just like, like the understanding and knowledge of how like blockchains work, which I think is
like, pretty necessary to like, you know, starting to like transact and like use, use, you know,
any sort of like asset in the space. So like that, that would be one. But like,
obviously, another one, I was just reading a tweet, actually, somebody posted like,
you know, a big friction point being like, you know, loading up on gas on a certain chain.
And I know there are a lot of like teams and like, chain abstraction, wallet abstraction
companies that are like, Oh, we have that or we're doing that um but i don't know that it's like been fully like i think it'll be fully
adopted when like no one ever has to do that at all anytime right like you shouldn't have to
even think about like having a specific gas token like on a chain to even just start using it like it should just be like you know load up
load up your wallet with like any sort of token and then like you know there's some sort of
process on the back end where you can I don't know you know utilize that token for gas or you know
transfers in the back end to like ether or whatever But like, I think that's another thing. And then,
yeah, I think just like the fact that like liquidity is siloed on different chains right
now and that like, we have to use bridges that are complex and often risky. Yeah, I don't know,
there's like, there's a lot. But I think, yeah, just when it comes to like,
Um, but I think, yeah, just when it comes to like, um, like explaining it to my normie
friends, like having to explain to them, like just, you know, how everything works and like,
you know, having gas, having, you know, explaining them like what, what a blockchain is.
And, um, like, I, I think it all, like, I I honestly I think part of it's like a marketing problem too
right like maybe instead of calling certain things you know what they are right now we can
almost rebrand it to something a little bit more familiar like you know having an account instead
of like a wallet address or like um instead of you of, you know, calling it gas, like maybe, maybe there's
another term we can use. Like, I think I don't have the solution really, but yeah, I'd say like,
those are some of the biggest friction points that I see when like talking to my friends who
I'm trying to get them like on chain. I love that Diana. And one of the things that you said,
the moment you mentioned, um, I don't know if you saw this when you were talking, Diana, but the moment you mentioned KYC, we had about seven or eight 100s pop off in the chat.
And so I would love to double down on this. And earlier on, you mentioned one of the things that we need to be doing to onboard our friends is to make the onboarding process something that's very similar,
something that they are already familiar with. And what came to my mind just now when you said
that, Diana, is that, you know, guys, you know, when we connect to certain websites, we got to
log in for something, like you can make your own account for sure. But one of the most common
options is to simply log in via Google, right? And I would love to hear your thoughts on this, Timmy.
Like if Google were AgLayer, right?
Could this kind of verification be a viable option to streamline the KYC friction point?
What are your thoughts on this, Timmy?
I haven't thought about it.
So I need to, I want to make sure
I don't sound like an idiot when I talk.
But no, I think, I do think that is a huge thing.
And I think that as, I mean, we're starting to see that.
I think you do get this weird, KYC is just this friction point where it's like, I don't
want every single website I go to to know who I am.
It should be sufficient to have an account and i think we
see that in crypto generally when it's like it's as easy as connecting the wallet but i to diana's
point i think we have a language problem where this industry was built by brilliant precise
people and when you're building something precision matters a lot but when you go to
mass market uh it gets really confusing so like even just a basic connect wallet versus login
like though if i'm trying to tell my normie friends like oh yeah connect your wallet
they will probably not understand what that is completely where if
i say if i had a page and i'm like oh yeah like it said login they'd go like okay i'll log in yep
this is my like quote unquote google account except it's just your address and they go yeah
okay that makes sense so i think there's we have these um we have to abstract it a little bit more and be a little bit less technical to the masses unless
they want to learn and then we have the documentation and I think that's a big thing like
another thing I was thinking was we just have a marketing problem where we
talk about gas fees in general and I think people don't really know what the fees are and in traditional
finance you have the fees are hidden so you just kind of um like the fees are abstracted from the
user and then people don't have a problem because if you knew how many fees you were paying for a
traditional bank account you'd go like oh wait i don't like that i don't like this transaction but
it's because it's all all all abstracted where with crypto,
it's right there in front.
And if there were a way to fix that,
I think that would be a huge plus for the onboarding experience.
Yeah.
You know,
all this talk about gas fees,
because I remember,
I remember coming into the space back then, maybe is something that's a service has been discontinued
but remember back then to me when we when we actually came along all these
different blockchains what these new chains did for us was that they would
have they would have live faucets for new accounts and for new wallets and
they would just give you just just enough to perform the initial transaction
and that that typically gets the I'm transaction. And that typically gets the user on their way
to experience the rest of their ecosystem.
I don't see that happening anymore now.
I don't know if this is an issue with chains shutting down
or perhaps it is the overarching issue of fragmentation
really manifesting into larger problems
and of course bots exploiting that.
But Paul, you got your hand up.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this man yeah i think i i have quite an interesting view of this because this happens a lot in gaming and i think it will start to happen more and more
across the space where you'll actually see the applications themselves sponsoring the guests for
the user and the user will then use the application like they
normally do and not have to worry about guests this is similar to like if you think about web 2
and if you build a website you pay for the web servers so you should be paying for the underlying
blockchain resources and then the user comes to you you have fun with that application and then
you have a revenue model on top of that that pays for that usage and i think we'll see that model more and more as we start to scale up more apps.
I think there will always be things like the public goods, like the lending protocols, the DEXs.
Those will need to have kind of gas fee models because you'll need to have peer-to-peer payments.
But I think you'll see more and more apps, especially in the consumer space, where people will not need gas tokens because it will be paid for by the devs.
And I see that pattern happening more and more across the space,
especially in gaming and social space as well.
Yeah, I think that's the one quality of life improvement
that's really going to just take this whole...
Forget understanding what gas is.
As long as the end user doesn't even know what's happening,
they don't need to know what gas is.
I think then we're really onto something.
I think that is perhaps one of the biggest friction points of all of them all paul and but you know i
would love to get my man gage involved in this conversation man so let's uh let's let's talk
friction points a little bit more gage in your opinion what do you think are some friction points
or maybe complaints that you hear when you're having onboarding conversations with normies
everyone loves the complaint i think that's kind of that's kind of
first point but it was a joke right but i think look you lads like back there right it's really
it's doing a good so as you guys talking about it there's a couple of things that kind of popped
in my mind i was actually um social i'm maining startups and stuff like that right so i was actually um so i'm mainly in startups and stuff like that right so i was advising actually
a tipping service which is using fiat right and and the problem was um and they gave good
traction actually um in salon kind of vertical and um one of the biggest problem was you know the
speed of settlement of the fiat so you got tip right if they let the
system go as it is it's like a two-day settlement before before the people who signed up to the
system get the tips and that's the problem for fiat right and i got them onto usdc and um the
settlement is instantaneous like but i think the the biggest thing that they were having
trouble with obviously it's their business right and and and they have to be careful you know it's
money and they're not experiencing in the blockchains and in crypto i think they you know
the first question is why the hell are there so many chains having usdc there's like one dollar
is one dollar what is going on right and some of these you know what
you guys are doing with the aggregation we really help because so like for the builders that are not
first with 64 different chains and they all have usdc usdt wherever else that's on it and um yeah
so i'm working with them to kind of onboard them on usdc but
it solves a massive pain point for for for their business using um using blockchain crypto so
you know the only thing i think diane's kind of mentioned it and various people's mentioned it is
the ux and the way we do it is we hide everything. You sign up with your X account.
You don't even know what a wallet is, right?
You want to support.
When you come to, we have Stripe on RAM on the site as well.
So, you know, when you actually want to support someone,
that's when you use the on-ramp to, you know, get some fees.
I think, what was it?
The .02 dude kind of mentioned. It's a bit of a catch-22 right so if you
go for the old kind of web 2e model in terms of building you know the devs or the team cover the
service course and whatever um if you're building web 2 you don't really have an option to for people to to do micro payments look let's not call it gas
right maybe a cup of coffee call it a cup of coffee or something right but this kind of model
really helps innovation yes there's a ux issue yes there is you know these terminology that
you have to explain which i think can be changed But the model of the compute on chain is your on chain is paid by the person
who's using it.
I think that's great.
Like, you know, maybe was it point zero to someone else said it as well.
Maybe it's, oh, actually, you know, for the first couple of transaction,
you know, you do it.
But I think ultimately in order to, to this kind of gas fee thing, in order for the user
to use it to pay for the compute, which is the gas, is great for, you know, new innovative
ideas, right?
We just need to hide it better, I think, one way or another.
But you know, a lot of these projects kind of come with a token, right? And I think that's actually a great way to introduce a user to use a system.
You know, you have a token on your product, you know, the token is the currency on the
product. And then, you know, when they sign up for the first few transactions, however many, you know, you just give them some of that token to do it.
Yeah, so the application layer, which is, I guess, is what we're talking about, is coming.
As these regulations start to settle up a bit, more and more people trying to build experiences on chain.
We rely on people like Aglay and you guys to kind of do the settlement and stuff.
But yeah, hopefully that was helpful.
Yeah, thank you for that, Gage.
I think the one thing that keeps on resurfacing in today's conversation
is kind of like just making the service work, right?
Make the service work, but hide the wires in circuitry.
But if our goal here in blockchain and Web3, if the ultimate endgame goal is to onboard,
then let me actually throw this over to you, Gov.
If the ultimate endgame goal here for us is to onboard more people into our ecosystems,
what do you think we can do to encourage self-education regarding crypto while our consumers are using our apps?
Because it's just like Gage said, if one of the ways to go about it is to let our users
use the app but not know anything about blockchain, at some point, at some point, we will want
to introduce these concepts to them, right?
So what do you think about that?
about that what do you think the methodology behind that might look like
What do you think the methodology behind that might look like?
methodology is actually to obscure
so i think the methodology might be to obscure all of the technology away from the users in general
away from the users in general. Look at the technology that's currently used for payments
today, for example. If we consider Visa and MasterCard, use them as the kind of baseline.
We as users don't see any of the upgrades as they change from various different Oracle database to Oracle database over the years,
we just see that our cards get slightly more secure,
or there's some slightly different implementation
in terms of the UI or what's expected on us
from our base level.
But we've got no idea that MasterCard and Visa
are exploring blockchain settlement positions.
And the same will be true for most other things.
Big centralized firms will come in
and they will offer up their services in a Web3 way.
And for most users, they won't even know.
They will have no idea about that position.
For most users, there will be kind of social recovery
where they can get involved.
And actually, it will be almost a hybrid system of Web3
where there is some ownership and there
is some kind of data there.
But actually, the users still don't
have that ownership and that
data, but they could do if they wanted to. Where this gets really interesting is in the amount of
users that we're actually going to be talking about in the next two to five years. So think about
the world today. We're currently at 8 billion people. Of those 8 billion people, we have 2.2 billion that have a bank account or some kind of payment interaction with today's society.
Once we get into crypto, we can go to 8 billion.
8 billion
and then
once we get through to the robots
and the AIs
we're going to be looking
at another
let's say there's one robot
or one AI for every
person, that's probably going to actually be more
than that by the end
so we can sort of round that up
and double it, so let's say
let's say there's another 10 billion robots and AI in the next 15 years.
So we're going from a market today where we've got 2 billion people with bank accounts or payment rails
into a world where we're going to have 18 to 20 billion accounts and payment rails in that respect.
to 20 billion accounts and payment wells in that respect.
And so that really means that the opportunities
to engage in this space and in the digital space
with digital goods and the digital economy,
that target audience, that total addressable market
of the TAM as we call it in startup world
is going to 5x.
No, 10x.
10x from today, which is insane.
In the next five or six years, that is an insane amount of growth.
And that's the kind of growth that governments need to get behind.
They need to understand what the opportunity is that we are faced with here.
They need to make sure that they are making the right decisions to capture that growth within their economy so that they can benefit. Because at
the moment, everybody's crying out that it's a scam and everything's going to go to Bitcoin,
et cetera, et cetera. Well, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what methodology we use
to determine the capital wealth.
If you listen to anything that Naval says, he says that money is all a scam and it's
all a representation of who's added the most value into the world.
That's what we've got to get to.
We've got to get to a position where people can be excited about adding value to the world and then not put off by the technology challenges or the risks in terms of the scaremongering that governments have been given into this place.
It's almost like if you go back into the early days of Web 1, if you were told, oh, don't send an email because the police will be around at your door because you're not paying for a stamp to do that.
It's got to a situation where we have just taken KYC to a ridiculous level.
And as somebody that's worked in the capital markets and finance for the last 20 years,
last 20 years you know the the trending line is that we're all going to be paying um and doing
kyc next time we buy a candy bar so we have to draw a line in that we have to make sure that we
can on board this next billion people we can we can look to the future and look to where that growth
is and that's what i'm most excited about And that's the vision that governor's building to.
Damn, I guess they don't call you governor for nothing.
My governor just dropped the alpha,
the absolute, absolute alpha on governments.
Well, anyway, thank you for that, Gov.
That's like seven Govs in one sentence.
But throughout the entirety of that,
Timmy, man, I saw the various waving emojis
that you threw down so i want to
honor the god powers and have have the mic tossed over to you immediately take it away bro
yeah i think um governor hit on quite a bit but like we really do abstract all of it like
today how many people know how how many people use the internet versus how many people know how the internet works?
And that is Web 2 to Web 3.
Web 3 is just another form of the internet.
And it's going to be a better, more egalitarian.
You can throw in all of the great adjectives and adverbs you want.
But it's just people won't need to use it.
And then I really think if people want to find out,
how will they use it?
It is seriously going to be as easy as typing into an AI,
like how does this work?
And the AI will give it to them in a way
that they can understand and learn.
I think we're going to have a lot of leveraging technologies
in general, and AI is going to be huge for getting people to
understand things and kind of meet them where they're at where you don't have like right now
basically you have to go to a school or university to learn pretty much anything or buy books that
are thick and dense and may not have the answer you want that you have to sift through
where like it might be above your comprehension so like i'm thinking if yes if someone is in tech
they could probably get a very technical answer for how crypto works and they'll understand it
but also if someone's a carpenter nothing exists to take a carpenter to understanding crypto where
i do think we're
going to get to a point with AI where it's like, here's my career, here's my educational background,
explain this concept to me in a way I understand, and then people will learn if they want to.
But quite frankly, I really think that 99% of people just want it to work. Like nobody,
I drive a car every day, and I don't know how everything works
until the car breaks.
And then I have to figure it out.
And this web three space is going to work
exactly the same as that.
I love that take to me.
People will learn if they want to.
You can't, you can't, you can't force,
force education down people's throats.
I mean, you can see what happens.
It's a lot of wasted
money, a lot of wasted time and resources. But on the topic of having this educational content
obscured completely away from its users, I think this is the right approach. At least this is how
we're going to start off. And if I may add anything with apps, with applications such as
Aglare, I think at the end of the day, just like you said to me, people just want to get their stuff done, right? So let them do that. But as guidance, as the
veterans in the space, we can push that guidance just a little bit further. And it could be as
impactful, but also as simple as leaving a button, a certain little circle area on the app
that simply says, do you want to learn more about
how all this works? Ask our AI. And maybe we have 10,000 people using our apps. If we can even get
1% of those people using our apps to tap that button, if we can get 1% of those people to be
triggered on their curiosity, I think we are then appropriately serving the masses with our
technology,
but also facilitating onboarding as that is being done as well.
Because, hey, if the end game goal isn't to bring our people into our ecosystem as users,
then we want more folks joining us as builders on the back end as well.
But tying everything together, I would love to pass the mic back to you, Timmy.
Of course, what are your closing thoughts on this?
And additionally, what are some
upcoming updates going on with
AgLayer that we should be paying more
attention to?
Yeah, so
I do think we're going to...
I mean, when things are simplified,
that's really
the endgame
for AgLayer. I think it's, and I know Diana said it
in an earlier space, but Aglare will be as simple as opening a new browser tab. Like that's how easy
transactions are going to be. And people don't need to actually be educated on it. They see the
plus button on their browser they click it and the new browser tab opens like it's super simple
plus button on their browser, they click it and the new browser tab opens. Like it's super simple.
you do it once and you understand and that's the that's the level of simplicity that we're going
to get to um but i know that i'll actually pass it to diana because i know that we were on a call
earlier today and she had some really cool ag layer updates um and kind of things that are
in the pipeline so i'll let her take it away.
Yeah.
So I think like for the future roadmap of ag layer,
like right now,
like there are certain pieces of the ag layer,
which is live.
So the unified bridge component is live and there are chains connected to
this unified bridge.
And most recently in February,
the pessimistic proof went live, which basically
is like a ZK proof that ensures security and safety for chains that are connected so that no
one chain can rug another chain. But right now, like transparently, finality is slow, like it
takes, I think, like 55 minutes or something, which is still not good for the user or really anyone.
Right. Like we have other solutions that are better right now, like like bridges or like something like an across that uses intents. is the newest update that will be coming in May, v0.3,
will allow Aglare to go multi-stack.
So that means it's not just Polygon CDK chains that can connect.
It can be really any stack chain that will be able to connect.
The whole goal of Aglare is that it's stack agnostic
and you don't have to abide by like a very strict set
of rules. Like it's supposed to be very minimal. So Alt-BMs, L1s, L2s, the goal is to have all of
Web3 connect to Aglaire. So, but this is obviously happening in phases. So that's the next kind of,
in phases. So that's the next kind of, I guess, like alpha drop is that the next update will allow
for a multi-stack Agler. So you could think like OP stack chains, Arbitrum orbit chains, like
can connect. So it's really not a roll-up cluster in that sense. It's more of just like a connective tissue. And then, of course, like,
the biggest update that will be happening for Agler will be happening in kind of the second
half of the year. And that's going to be when fast interop goes live. And that's going to be
like the sub five second, sub two second, you know, happens instantaneously. It's the user
experience that we're all like hoping and wishing for.
So those are kind of the two big things,
the two next big updates that are on the roadmap ahead for Aglaire
that everyone should kind of keep their eyes and ears open for.
So if you want to stay updated on these big milestones,
follow the Aglaire handle, which you can obviously see as a host here.
And also just if you want to learn more about Aglier, you can go to aglier.dev and check out
the dev docs there and keep updated with the progress as it's happening.
Thank you, Diana. And of course, if our audience members want to be more involved
and not just about the website and not just about the utilities that's coming out.
Maybe they want to learn more about what Egglayer is doing. Maybe they want to be involved with the
community members. For those of us that are in the audience right now and if they want to do this,
where can they go? Yeah, so right now really just X is the best place to interact and vibe.
X is the best place to interact and vibe.
We'll have some more community channels
kind of launching soon,
but that's the best place to come and chat with us
with all the core contributors to Agler.
Yeah.
That is awesome.
Thank you so much for that, Diana.
But guys, that being said,
ladies and gentlemen,
this is going to be marking the end of our space for today. So once again, thank you, Diana and
Timmy and to all of our awesome panelists for joining us on today's conversation. And of course,
thank you guys in the audience for dropping all those likes, comments, and retweets. We really do
appreciate all the love and support. And one last time, make sure you guys are following the Ag
Layer House account and remember to turn on those notifications so you guys don't miss out on any of the latest
updates. But until then, this is going to be Ice signing off, and we'll see you guys in the next one.
Peace! Thank you.
