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Rollups, RPCs, and Ramen: A Modular Chat with Naruto from Avail
Recorded: Sept. 25, 2025 Duration: 1:09:31Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent episode of the Anchor Runner Spotlight, Naruto, a key figure in the Avail project, discussed the importance of partnerships and community engagement in driving growth within the blockchain ecosystem. He highlighted the project's innovative approach to modular blockchain infrastructure and the exciting developments on the horizon, including integrations with decentralized exchanges and a focus on enhancing user experience across multiple networks.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. you
hey hey Hey Can you hear me yes
I wonder why there's no music we were there should be some you know nice jazz vibing
Probably X Twitter just being twitter yeah twitter is messed up with that yeah it is uh always the same we had um
another partner spotlight was it two weeks ago? Yeah, I think it was two weeks ago with our friends from Matt Chain. Mid-session, everything just broke down. The session just abruptly finished and left me with a poker face. face
all right let's give everyone a couple of minutes to join and then we can get started really soon. Let me just check. I have my list of questions for Naruto today. Oh yeah. There we go.
How are you doing today by the way sir? I'm good. How are you doing today by the way sir?
I'm good, how are you?
Yeah all good, all good.
What time is it over there?
Uh 12 p.m.
Oh nice.
Okay, okay cool.
I thought it would be like super early for you and I was like hey we can you know.
Nah all good like a little bit
if so but yeah that's fair that's a good time with day and um hi everyone guys thanks for joining
see some nice reactions.
Hi, Mr. Minter.
Let me just try to invite myself as you, Naruto, as co-hosts again, just in case it breaks. Thank you. I'm not going to mess this up anymore.
Let's just get started.
I think that'll be best.
You ready, sir?
Yep, yep, I'm ready. I think that'll be best. You ready, sir?
Yep, yep.
I'm ready.
Cool.
Let's get started then.
Welcome everyone back to another episode of the Anchor Runner Spotlight. I'm really glad that you're tuning in with us today.
is with us today our guest today is well someone who's helping shape one of the most exciting pieces
of modular blockchain infrastructure we've got naruto today who is if i'm not mistaken a software
engineer blockchain developer currently is involved in the avail project he's well been involved in the Avail project.
He's, well, been deep in the code,
building systems that will support the next wave
of roll-offs and applications in Web3.
Yeah, Naruto, thank you so much for joining us.
It's great to have you on.
And yeah, just one quick question to get started.
Like, for those who don't know you yet, who is Naruto?
You, not the anime character, of course.
And what first got you excited about blockchain tech?
Yeah, I can go on.
So I picked up the Naruto name just because it's my favorite anime.
I watched Naruto as a a kid i followed it
i've been watching it like you know constantly on and off again and again um probably watched it
three times already so that's one um but who who not who naruto is is basically i started in crypto back in 2017 uh this was basically me trying to like you know buy
some bitcoin and ethereum when i think ethereum was 300 so around around that turn and then i was
very oblivious i did not know what uh crypto is or how these things work all i knew is you know
my roommate he was telling me like oh it's
like a stock it keeps going up and down why don't we buy it so i bought back then and then slowly
like you know kept on buying more and more um over the years uh without even realizing how powerful
the you know blockchain systems are um and then slowly by the end of 2020, while I was still in college, just almost finishing
my college, I started looking at Ethereum and smart contracts. That's when I actually got
deeply into it. I learned Solidity for that. And ever since then, I've been just contributing
a lot of places before I joined Avil.
I worked on multiple projects as Solidity Dev or any kind of Dev.
And then from there, when beer market hit, this was like, I think, 2022,
I kind of started doing more community work or educational work where i would just teach people um how these
things work and stuff like that um and from there it just became so much easier um somehow gained a
little bit of audience um i'm very grateful for that and then you know like started getting to
know what crypto twitter feels like because i was in crypto but i never really joined crypto twitter which was like another you know dumb mistake of mine i
should have joined crypto twitter back in 2017 um but joined that and started looking at like what
people are talking about what they're doing what are the new tech what companies are working on
what um yeah that's that's like a very short story and then finally
like i joined avail um because i was very much impressed by the founders the vision
what they are up to all those kind of stuff it's interesting nice way to set the scene for
listeners everyone definitely loves a origin story and i think we have so much in common actually
naruto like um not uh the the anime right there's definitely one thing in common that we have um i
don't know how many times to be honest i've just re-watched but uh yeah it was my favorite anime
um i think i guess we're similar age as well. And been following it since, I don't know, since I was a kid, pretty much.
Maybe more like a teenager, around that age.
And first I watched it dubbed, which was awful.
And then, yeah, then switched to the Japanese, you know, original version with the voices and whatnot.
And then also joined um in 2017 very
late 2017 actually had no idea what i was doing you know heard it from a friend as well and i
remember i always say this you know as an anecdote the first very first airdrop that i signed up for
um when they asked me for an address you know i actually entered my uh like my actual address from home and
and yeah man here we are today um and yeah thank you so much again you know for
for um sharing your origin story um inspiring definitely you know i just checked you you got
so many followers um at the time i was also i don't know why like crypto twitter you know
many followers um at the time i was also i don't know why like crypto twitter you know
i would just browse through you know the the feed and the timeline but then i'll be like okay no you
know i'm i don't know um i would never post i would never do anything and i actually just joined
crypto twitter like a few years ago but yeah i definitely don't have the same momentum so well
definitely don't have the same momentum so well uh sharing so much um no that's good yeah man
it's just so that oh damn you know like we have so much in common um and yeah another question
regarding you know you with um avail which is like what drew you to avail like specifically and how has your role evolved over there um i work as a debrel
at aw i have a great uh counterpart or uh co-worker robin he is another debra and uh we
would basically look at all the things there you can think of, you know, related to dev activations or somewhat a little
bit marketing on Twitter. Of course, there's like a big marketing push from the marketing team,
which is really great. But in general, like, you know, talking to the grassroots devs,
we are the first point of contact for any kind of partners if they have any questions or if there are second
and integrations. We also work with the product team where we give them feedback on how certain
code pieces looking like or how a certain interface is looking. So basically a lot of
different things is what we do. Our major KPI goal is to make sure that Avail succeeds.
That's literally the only thing.
Interesting.
And yeah, I think I got the right person because later on I'm going to ask about,
you know, the integration with with Anchor.
So, yeah, I think definitely I have the right person.
And following up on
why you joined Avail, what you do,
what's a typical day for
you as a dev role
and what part
of the stack or the workflow
are you most hands-on with?
So for the
most part,
we do a lot of testing, as I said.
So for example, let's say today morning I woke up and I got like five pings.
I'm like, hey, this is the new interface that we built for our bridge or our Nexus, which is our second product.
Can you test it out?
Or is there any bug in the code?
Or do you think like there's any kind of bugs?
Just looking at all those things are our first priority.
And then anything else, you know,
like relative dev activations.
So we're planning some dev actuations or community part
for the next quarter, like starting October.
So we're gonna be doing that.
Supporting hackers at any hackathons where we sponsor,
for example, Eat Global Online, DevConnect, all these.
We do a lot of stuff over there as well.
So planning those things out, take time,
working on those things and the ideas,
making sure like everything works, doesn't break.
We do a lot of those. So we have to plan ahead in like a few weeks at least,
if not months.
And that's the whole idea of like, you know,
what my day-to-day looks like.
A lot of meetings and a lot of testing,
a lot of integrations of talking to partners
and also doing like you know streams like these
because these are also you know very much needed for the optics as well
thank you for that this definitely gives listeners a peek behind the curtain right and it's always
interesting to hear how much of the job is doing this or that it sounds like you have um on a daily
basis like to connect and collaborate with
people across different platforms and well of course third parties as well it sounds like
you are very busy day to day and thank you so much for your time today and for joining us
no that's okay that's part of the job yeah. Now, maybe I might get a little off topic, but you know,
it's exciting to discuss this with a fellow Naruto fan, but definitely very tempting to ask.
As someone, you know, you go by Oh, it's really hard.
Well, first question,
Naruto or Shippuden?
Like, the first...
Shippuden.
I love Shippuden.
Yes.
I think
when Jiraiya
died, that was
really, you know, that was really hurtful but i really loved that
um the those that arc was really good uh you know like how naruto does the sage training and all
that that was pretty cool and i think uh the final war arc was really good too of course it's like
climax so you would you're inclined to
like that but the thing is like there's so many things unfolding so you get to hear a lot of
different things and ideas um so that those two moments were like really good for me i like at
least like you know i liked well yeah the final um the ninja war was definitely, like, plot twist after plot twist, which is crazy.
And, yeah, we had to get there.
You know, the name definitely sets up for this one, but, oof, I didn't expect you to see Jirai just dead.
That made me so sad at the time, and it was totally unexpected for me,
because I had never followed the manga, you know, just watched the anime.
Well, you have to navigate through all the you know the filler episodes um yeah that came in as a big blast um but yeah that's definitely a huge moment and in the anime that's that's true that's
true for sure exactly and that's why i love that. Yeah, I mean, definitely. That fight was very exciting, to be honest.
I never thought he would die.
Well, I'm sorry if we are spoiling this to anyone in the room.
But yeah, man, that one was hard.
It was hard to get over.
Another question. was hard it was hard to get over um another question if you could visit the real ichiraku ramen like what would you order uh that's the sad part i cannot order any kind of ichiraku ramen or
anything because i'm a vegetarian so they'll have to make you know some kind of vegan or something right and is ramen your like
go-to food in real life too like do you get yes options um yes yes there are a lot of vegan options
i i love those but uh so so think of this way like um any kind of ramen has uh you know chicken pork
uh or whatever and then it has pork broth or fish broth so a lot of restaurants in in the us
what they do is like they replace the pork with the tofu and then for the broth for the broth they would replace it with you know some kind of
uh vegan broth or something so it so it turns out to be similar not exactly same i've tasted
the actual ichiraku ramen too i'm just not uh you know i i just don't eat it so i couldn't could not
do it um when you say you have tasted
the real ichiraku ramen what do you mean by that sorry like is there like a um i've been i've been
to i've been to japan and they had like yeah in japan yeah so they had like you know some of those
options for people uh that's why. I see, I see.
Well, we're planning a trip to Japan
at some point in our lives
with my friends.
So yeah, that's definitely another thing
that we will have to do.
Thank you for that. I had no idea
to be honest.
Maybe at some point I came
across a post or something about that,
but probably forgot.
I'm definitely taking note.
And yeah, thanks again.
A little food talk I think always makes the conversation a little bit warmer.
I think our audience will appreciate the crossover, let's say.
And yeah, now I'm diving a little bit deeper into avail going back to the to the topic
for someone who's new to blockchains you know um and model our blockchains of course what does
avail exactly do and why does it matter so much um it is very hard for me to
It is very hard for me to explain to someone who is very new to blockchains about Avail
because Avail is so on the lower side of the tech or the infrastructure that even like
the people who've been into crypto for a while, they don't know or realize how things work.
know realize on how things work um and the reason is that um it's just a little bit hard like for
them for this and what's happening actually um so the way i try to like you know showcase them
showcase them or like kind of like explain how these things work is basically i give them an
idea of uh and everyone you know realizes monolithic and microservice and microservice.
This is like a term in Web2, monolithic versus microservices, where you have multiple services for a system, which you can kind of plug in.
And then the monolithic would be like one big architecture for any kind of service.
A monolithic would be like one big architecture for any kind of service.
If you've ever, you know, like worked on a software engineering side in Web2, you would realize like this is true.
Like I used to work at a Web2 company for three years as a software engineer and we had microservices architecture.
We also had a monolithic depending on what project you're working on.
And this is the example that I give to people that i'm meeting
and who are not into blockchain and i tell them like look at ethereum it's a monolithic architecture
or like solana or ethereum is not the right case but like so ethereum's original architecture is
monolithic and so is solana uh when you look at something like microservices
or when it's divided into architectures or layers,
for example, Ethereum is,
you can take out these pieces
and then put in your own service providers.
For example, if the DA layer for Ethereum is too expensive,
instead of putting the Ethereum's DA, any kind of data,
you can put it on
of it but give them like you know two vertical ideas or examples and then i tell them like oh
see this is a da part of ethereum you can take it away or you can ignore it and then you take the
data posting services of yours to any kind of you know dealer avail being one of the state-of-the-art tech.
And that's the easiest example that I can give to anyone who is not into crypto.
People who are into crypto or, you know, like understand a little bit,
they fairly get it easier.
But if you use this example of monolithic versus microservices,
a lot of web2 people also realize uh what's going on
fair enough and um yeah thanks for laying the foundation here in you know like playing language
right for uh hopefully more people to understand of those who are listening and uh for those who
might be new to the concept well it sounds like you will have to
do some research first but again you know make sure that after you have done your research to
hop back and listen in again another question regarding avail and its competitors like how is
avail positioned differently compared to other layers and i'm not going to
mention names yeah no i mean that's that's fine i i love all of the competitors so you know like i i
can do it for you don't worry about it um but but and yeah i'm not really like afraid or so
uh but in general like there are only very few dealers um and it started with
celestia being one of those uh funny thing is celestia uh started i think in 2019 is when their
lazy ledger uh white paper came out i don't remember the timeline and around the same time
uh avail was also building inside polygon because you know the founder of avail was
also co-founder of polygon uh unruh so he uh he was you know he was there at polygon from day one
during the days of matic that's what they used to call it back then um and this was i think they
started in 2017 but um moving on they moved the whole you know like the focus of
uh unrock's focus moved a little bit towards um healing ethereum they they realized it very early
on that at some point there will be bottleneck um the way the ethereum foundation is going on
with the speed uh because you know they have their own priorities they have their
own commitments and if there are so many l2s launching a lot of rollups launching then it is
very hard for uh for the l2s to kind of like you know uh post data because of course they can post data but it will be very expensive
for them uh so at the same time they also started exploring um a da layer or da solution on how
which will help them scale ethereum so this was 2020 2023 we spun out of polygon um and then
became like an own entity and at the same time you know celestia
launched as well i think it was end of 2023 um inda also came out so the the basic basic thing i can
tell you the difference is that um avail uses uh validity proofs as their uh you know data posting technique or case cheat commitments
and because of this the the you get a trustlessness um you get a lot cheaper fee and you
get basically you know um you can i'm trying to form what i can say here but basically yeah
think of this way that you
have two roll-ups one is op roll-up and one is zk roll-up right so you can consider
avail as a zk roll-up or like not not literally but like kind of like you know when you get
proofs for every generation there's some math behind it um and all these things come out to be a very trustless network um we are i think avails
nakamoto coefficient is 105 as much as i remember um so it is one of the most decentralized uh
chains as well um avail itself the base layer of avail itself is a chain for people who don't know
um you can consider it as an l1 but you cannot launch
smart contracts on top of it uh how you can launch it on l2s or any l ones because uh those are
different you know stuff where you need an execution engine and you need other things as well
uh we just have the capability of uh having uh posting your data from any kind of rollout.
So all in all, I think the biggest differentiation
is that Avail uses KGG commitments,
which are more trustless,
versus let's say Eigen.
I'm a big fan of Eigen people.
I love Fira.
And the big difference between Eigen and Avail is that Eigen is not really a chain.
It is a DAC.
So these are data availability committees.
And there can be different attack factors.
I think we lost you for a second hello hi there yeah we can we can hear you now
okay yeah so i think that's the
yes yes yes i think that's the major difference where Aigen is a data availability
committees, or like, you know, I think they have a few of them, and you cannot rely on the
trustlessness over there. But that's a major, major difference between all these three.
I do not see big competitors apart from these three, or like you know big players in the da space apart from
uh available for lestia and eigen um and then you know like every different project has their own
um roadmap as well so eigen is very much for uh you know uh on the ai very a very fiability side
uh while celestia i am not keeping tracks what they're doing but avail is um
a total stack for unification uh the basic basic idea is that you know we want we see a future
where there will be so many roll-ups so many chains that your user experience and then your
assets will be fragmented and we want to make sure that that does not happen
so that's why we are building you know avail nexus um alongside with our ability which is already
built of course yeah thank you so much for that um i think it definitely will help people understand
avails unique value um this brings me to like another, which is, well, I believe that data availability
is a concept that's pretty easy to grasp.
Yeah.
So in short, I've Googled for a definition, of course.
Assurance that the complete data is required to verify transactions
is accessible and publish the network allowing participants to independently verify the integrity
and security of the blockchain state okay so it sounds simple it sounds you know i think it's easy
to grasp but could you explain data availability you know um, maybe with a metaphor or how would you do that?
Because I think it's more complex than it sounds, right?
Or maybe it's just as simple as it sounds.
I don't know.
Yes.
Yes.
So a very big misconception that has been going on for a long, long time is that people consider data availability
or like they at least mess it up,
data availability with data storage.
Data storage would mean that you're storing the data
at some point somewhere,
while data availability means that you're making sure
you're making sure that the data is available at all times okay um so so this is because every roll
that the data is available at all times.
up at you know let's say um a roll up can post uh multiple times in in an hour hundreds of times
and what you're trying to see here is that if this data is available for anyone else to verify if it's
true or not, if that data was actually posted or not, right?
That data storage cannot do.
So you're basically guaranteeing that every transaction in any kind of a block on a certain
chain is accessible to every single participant it can be a user it can be an
institution it can be a roll-up itself it can be a company uh but basically you're verifying that
the data is completely intact there's nothing wrong in it and it's accessible to people to verify if everything was posted um the bigger reason why we need a da layer
is because when you're directly posting to ethereum back then you know like i think
this was 2024 2023 the uh or like you know from 2021 2021 there was so much gas fee
um i have paid 100 for just an nft minute um this is because you know like your whole
thing is clogged uh your your your network is clogged that moment uh these do not really help
over there uh but what happens is that at a lot of times the roll-ups for example let's say base right really great project really great l2 but
arbitrum arbitrum is great too they would pay a lot of money in to the da cost i cannot remember
the exact details or like the numbers right now but i remember like they had let's say for example
they had a 10 million of the fees or like
revenue in generation like you know the fees that they got paid and then they paid like seven mil
just in like the dvs um these are not the correct numbers i need to look up it's been a long time
uh but the idea is like roll-up has to roll ups have to pay a lot of uh a lot of like you know money in just uh da posting fee which is
weird and dumb and that's where like you know avail or any kind of da that comes in where you
post here and then you basically are paying maybe like you know 0.1 cent per block. You're basically, you know, like the rollups are fighting for block space on any chain.
And you want to make sure that your rollups transactions are included for validators.
And to do that, you need to pay more.
And because of that, you need to pay higher fee.
And when you use a DA ta your lane is completely separate um you're
paying less fee uh you get prior ta as well so i think this is how da's are built or built for
uh of course there are changes now because ethereum has uh you know enabled blobs at this point and because of these blobs it has become
uh increasingly cheaper to post data directly on uh these uh on ethereum itself but i think
or like this is my um this is my forecast is that after a few years when there's actually mass adoption um it's going to be really hard for people to like
kind of put in money or like not putting money but in general uh pay a lot of um hi
i think sorry i i just rambled no i think i think we lost you for a couple of seconds again.
You were talking it would be difficult for people to make money.
I assume you mean as profiting from DA?
Yes, yes.
Not to make money, but basically roll-ups are paying heavy cost to the Ethereum DA in fees.
So any kind of DA's responsibility is to reduce it exponentially.
Right. Yeah.
Thanks for the extra context.
Yeah. We lost you over there.
So yeah, we missed like maybe four seconds.
Maybe five seconds.
Yeah, it happens.
It happens.
I mean, don't worry.
Honestly, I'm so used to it. Yeah. Thank you again so much for the explanation. And while you were explaining this, I was thinking all the time about, you know, because I'm a, I used to be a, well, I don't want want to say heavy but i used to be a curious android user
you know who would um flash like different roms into my devices and whatnot and we would have like
a md5 checker you know for the for the roms and whatnot is it similar to that concept like i think
it's well probably it's more expanded you know but do you think it's it's something like that or
well probably it's more expanded you know but do you think it's it's something like that or
could you get yeah you can you can think that way for example like if you if you have an iphone you
can't really like you know uh change parts in it yeah and if something breaks you better like
replace it completely or go to the center uh but in the case of an android you can use different parts or you can
like change rom or anything else yourselves um this is why like you know think of like you have
more programming program at programmability uh where you have more power uh and then this is
like the reason why modular blockchains actually work on needed sure surely yeah thank you so much
for that I wished um I don't know if you have heard of project aura back in the day by by Google
yes yes the modular smartphone I was so hyped same yeah I was so so hyped for that and uh ended up being being nothing unfortunately you know but
well i mean lg tried their you know their modular phone um i think it was quite innovative back in
the day i thought you know we were on the way but yeah unfortunately just well um yeah sorry I remember that, yes. Sorry for rumbling.
Yeah, just made me, I don't know, made me remember that.
And thank you so much again, man.
Next question, what kinds of teams or use cases are already starting to build on or with Avail?
So for the start, we had a lot of rollups. That was our focus because the DA's primary customer
or client are rollups who can post data
and who can save money on posting these data.
And then now we are building Avail Nexus,
which is our second product.
Avail Nexus is basically our interrupt solution
um what happens is i i want to give you an example for example i have um 200 usdc on base
and then i i have 500 usdt on arbitral right So these are two different networks and I am on HyperEVM right now, or let's say HyperLiquid MENA. I want to take out my $700 in total, which is my unified
balance. And I want to transfer it to my HyperLiquid. So what I have to do is I have to go to across, bridge the money out and then put it in there.
If not across, because I think they do not support USDT, I might be completely wrong.
I need to go to the bridge or somewhere else and take that money and then put it into, you know, hyperliquid through the bridge.
So the problem here is that I have to go to two different websites
i have to make at least 15 to 20 clicks to move my money to hyper liquid but with avail nexus which
is our second and main product um after da um and this was always in the roadmap you basically just
need to be on the hyperliquid chain connect
your wallet and then you just need to specify how much money you want to transfer from both of the
chains which is based in arbitrum so if i choose that hey move all my 700 it will take my unified
balance and then move uh directly from the hyperliquid application itself to the hyperliquid or hypervm chain
the biggest difference here or the biggest unlock here is that i do not need to go to two different
websites i don't need to bridge in bridge out i don't need to you know make 20 clicks i've been
doing so much on chain stuff lately and it's always an issue for me to
move or hop in from different websites. Um, what if like, you know, I'm let's say I'm trading on cyber liquid and I'm very close to getting liquidated.
What do I do then? Um, a lot of times it also happens that I am on scroll or I
have like funds in, uh, another, let's say story protocol because we just integrated story or monad
right what happens if i have so much money there so the idea is that any dap can integrate nexus
sdk and then you know the users can tap into their liquidity from these different roll-ups or sorry
different networks directly into that specific application
is what we have tried to unlock. So our use cases have changed now from rollups. It is already
there. Rollups can come in and then they can integrate with us. But now we have Nexus SDK
or like it will be going live mainnet very soon. So at that moment, any rule up that is, sorry,
any application that is integrated with Avail Nexus
can use or like their users can use
to move their balances here and there.
They can also cross-chain swap.
They can also like, you know, use the money
or the unified balance from different chains on that wallet.
So those are like our now new use cases or kind of, let's say, customers.
There's no cost to integrate it, but in general, those are the people that we're looking for now,
like any kind of Dapp who wants to integrate away with Nexus, they can come in and then they can just do it.
Thank you, sir. It's definitely always more tangible, right? When we can picture how the tech is being used. And I love that you always, you know, post examples. see a veil fitting into the future roll-up centric landscape?
Well, it seems that it's going to be roll-up centric, of course.
This is an opinion question.
if you don't think it's going to be roll-up centric,
of course, feel free to tweak your response,
adapt it based on your personal opinion.
I think roll-ups are still our customers
because we're not giving up on the DA,
DA is still there.
And then people, any new roll-up that is launching can come in and then on the DA, DA is still there. And then people, any new rollup that is launching
can come in and then integrate the DA completely.
We are still very bullish on hundreds of rollups launching.
And because of all of this,
we want to make sure that we support those.
But now the future holds on the improving the user experience
user experience would be you know naruto not clicking 10 15 times to just take his own money
out um those are like the reasons why we want to use that and i think we're on a very great path
because we're trying to integrate most of the l1s
and l2s so right now i think there are 11 l2s or like networks that are available uh which can use
nexus and then we will slowly increase the number to you know uh solana tron and all these different
l1s as well just so that people can do it. Like recently we had an announcement
that now people can tap into Avalanche as well
using Nexus SDK.
So that is bullish.
And this is like, I think the future.
I want to be in multiple different crypto apps,
be it Polymarket, Kulshi,
Farcaster, all these different apps or any kind of swap as well.
And I want to make sure that my money can move in to these apps in a single shot.
One shot move is what I'm really looking for instead of me going to different bridges and trying to bridge that.
So I think this is the future um because there are so
many uh l2s and app chains coming out and that's why they're a lot bullish on these thank you sir
i'm definitely taking note and taking notes and hopefully you know i hope everyone else is also
doing that um end of this section means there is a off-topic question coming up.
I'm sorry, but I need to.
Favorite character in Naruto?
Ah, that is hard.
I would say Naruto because I'm very much inspired.
But the problem with that, and i have this controversy theory is that
um naruto got everything handed to him over a platter if you don't think about if you think
like you know his legacy like there there is parents there and then they're like other people
who supported him that he had all the power in the world um that is very different than uh rockley so rockley
is like my second favorite character because he was the epitome of like hard work he did a lot of
work um to get to where he is um and that's why like i think uh naruto number one and Rocklee right after him. Man, I couldn't agree more.
Honestly.
You know, and
yeah, I mean,
it's controversial.
Definitely. It definitely is.
Exactly. Because, you know, on the first
point. Yeah, sorry?
No, no, no. I said I agree.
I agree. It is controversial.
Yeah, it is because, I mean, it's...
How do I say it?
In the first half of the anime, right, it's so...
They tell you that, you know, Naruto is having such a hard life.
I mean, which is true, right?
He wasn't having, like, a comfy life at the beginning.
Yeah, yeah.
But then if you think about it, he inherited so much.
Exactly.
Yeah, like, okay, he comes from the Yuzumaki family, you know,
and then he has, of course, huge amounts of chakra and whatnot.
But, man, you know, he has the name tails inside him, right?
That's the one part.
Yeah, of course he had to handle it and whatnot.
But then, yeah, if you think about it, yeah, he already has so much, you know,
to, like, to become successful, right, at some point.
So, yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more with you, honestly.
And, you know, re-watching as an adult, I think it's not always a good idea
because you realize these kind of things.
But, yeah.
Thanks for your, you know,
your vision, your opinion.
Again, couldn't agree more.
And now we are entering a news section.
I have a couple questions for you, Naruto.
And, yeah, so,
Avail, right? You guys have been gaining visibility lately.
I think it's something that nobody can deny.
A lot of momentum.
What has been the most exciting about the recent momentum from your side?
Of course, again, this is a personal opinion kind of question um on the real side
um i think the biggest momentum for us is uh recent integrations that we had with hyper evm
um now like anyone can use nexus sdk with hyper evm And a lot of different companies are, you know,
like we're in talks with different projects
to integrate HyperEVM or like, you know,
their applications to Nexus SDK.
So we're getting a lot of inbound interest,
similar to like, you know, how Anchor is.
Anchor is doing like a lot of good work
with the RPCs and REST providers, being a REST provider.
So I think that sets the tone
because I think the future is bullish. Anchor and Avail have been really close partners for a long
time and I think it's going to be really good moving forward as well. And what recent like what mouse recent milestone are you most excited about or proud um for for me the biggest
milestone would be having a stir or any other similar decks that are coming or like they're
that are already live integrate xsdk uh that will be the biggest milestone um at the same time like you know working alongside um great companies like
anchor right yeah the aster is definitely you know all under the spotlight right now it's it's
been it's been crazy right you know but yeah yes thanks uh again naruto you know always good to
hear what feels you know energizing from the builder's perspective, not just what's
on the news or what's on our communications.
And then this one is from slash for the anchor community.
Yeah, so well, the question is split in two halves. So first, from your perspective, right, as a dev role,
what do you think makes a good partner or collaborator in Web3?
And then second, like, how has the experience been working with Anchor
on the, you know, RPC side, and what impact does it have
for developers building on Avail?
I think the biggest way that I look for any kind of partner
or what I'm looking forward to is them equally
and being invested in, let's say Avail
or any of their partners to work together uh be it um be it uh you know a twitter announcement um
or spaces like this or tech integrations they just need to be very much invested like you know
you and i we had multiple conversations in the group chat like oh what's the time when to do
um i want to make sure that like any partner that you
be with does not take you for granted or you don't take them for granted i think that's the
most important thing that i like uh tech aside tech can come later marketing marketing can come
later uh it's the mutual understanding of like you know we are in it together and we want to like scale things uh we
want to make sure that everyone uh is on par and equal uh that's that's what it really matters i
think yeah 100 um definitely appreciate the kind words and yeah we have had multiple conversations
and you've been so far, you know, great.
Honestly, I don't, I don't mean to flatter you or something, you know?
Yeah. Just for transparency or to share a little bit more.
Actually, Naruto and I, we spoke back in June or July,
if I remember correctly about doing the X spaces, but then, you know,
we've been busy.
We've had also other guests that were already lined up for the spaces.
And unfortunately, you know, like we are doing it now, three months later.
But, yeah, you know, the people at Aveo, Naruto has been so patient.
And also, as soon as we had a date, finally, it was so collaborative, you know, and yeah, we just made it happen. So appreciate, really appreciate that. Thank you so much. And yeah, I mean, hopefully people love hearing about the partnerships directly from, you know, those who are in the trenches, which is that bros like Naruto in here. And that's why I thought you were the right person.
And now following up, what are or was maybe the funniest or most unexpected thing that happened
while working with a global Web3 team? Because of course, I think a big part of us work remote, right?
Yeah. What's the question so what was the funny moment or unexpected thing that happened when you work with a partner
um when we work with a partner uh i think the funny moment like for example alchemy is a really great friend of ours um
and i remember like you know angelina who's a great friend of mine uh she just kind of like
um gave us like alchemy merch or swags uh some of the team members without even like you know
asking or something uh so that that's that's really really interesting and sweet uh but in general like i don't think like no funny moments everyone is like so headstone busy
every single project um that they basically want to like make sure that they win or they work uh
so yeah nothing too much all right um yeah just you know i tried to gather some stories
because they always remind us you know that behind the tag is just people figuring out things together.
Right. Exactly. So, yeah, just trying to, you know, gather these kind of stories and hear more from anecdotes from from everyone.
from from everyone so thanks again for uh sharing and now looking a bit ahead um yeah i'm taking a
lot of your time today and also this is the last section and a couple of questions like um again
this is a kind of a personal opinion question you know what are your like you personally most excited about um that's coming next for avail um for avail as i said like nexus
is the big thing that i am looking for uh looking forward to but there are also like a lot of
partnerships and announcements that we're so soon gonna do um just gonna be posting a lot about
those on like how we're bullish on, you know, these certain projects.
We are very close to like, you know, announcements just figuring last bits about.
So those are major things.
Overall, the crypto space, I think I'm still very bullish or even like the market went down yesterday.
I'm very bullish on like the future.
If you did not see yesterday, there was like a South Park show that released,
uh, or dedicated a whole episode on prediction markets.
So Kulshi and Polymarket and every one of them were mentioned.
I'm very bullish on Polymarket and Kulshi.
Um, I'm friends with the founders over there as well and just
in general like I love how far the tech has come and what we are you know kind of building together
oh yeah definitely definitely comes comes a long way especially from well I mean there's people
who joined crypto even earlier right but coming from 2017 when we
had all those icos and whatnot you know crazy times crazy times back then exactly yeah and
what are you hoping to see more like in the broader ethereum slash l2 space this next year or in the next maybe five years?
I think there will still be a lot of L2s launching.
It has slowed down a little bit as compared to last year,
but I think there will still be a lot of L2s launching,
and I'm really looking forward to Fusuka update.
I think that's how you pronounce it.
Upgrade for Ethereum. looking forward to full suka update i think that's how you pronounce it um upgrade for ethereum i'm really like you know i'm friends with some people in the ethereum foundation um and then they keep
on talking on like how um they're building like you know or like scaling ethereum so i'm really
bullish on that um in general like i think the you know i keep on saying this, but I think like the future looks really bright.
Institutions came in, um, a lot of different, uh, projects and companies are coming in as well.
They're building stable coins and stable chains are the next meta.
Um, so all of these things combine and then you bring, you know, world on chain, you kind of bring people or businesses on stable coin chains
and then you from moving there you also like look multiple rollups for example um so fun one of our
partners is doing really great in the consumer space then we have lens chain which uh which was
like an lens product first and then they moved to pick a whole chain they're doing really
good work so so the idea is like you know everyone is shipping so fast that it's very hard to give
taps on them um but everyone is doing so that a lot of like like the pie can grow more um a lot
of people can come on chain and that's the whole goal at the end of the day. Thank you so much for sharing your vision.
You come from an era in crypto, right?
That was similar to the Wild West, right?
Sort of.
What do you think of the current...
Yeah, sorry?
Yes, I was just saying yes. Oh, yeah. What do you think of the current situation slash landscape of crypto?
With more regulation coming with all the institutions now.
What's your opinion on that?
Out of courage. Yeah, yeah, no, that's your opinion on that? Out of courage.
Yeah, yeah, no, that's okay.
I think it's bullish.
The reason being is that, so there are two phases to it.
The first phase is the cypherpunk theory, which initially attracted me to crypto.
We're losing that.
And I'm very vocal about the idea that like, you know, we don't have any more of the cyberpunk theory because institutions came in.
But institutions coming in and regulations coming in, you know, Trump launching his own company and everything.
It's basically kind of, how do I say it?
It's kind of a checkbox, you know, like, oh, these companies,
these big projects or these big institutions of like, you know,
billions of dollars, they are legitimizing crypto.
And now we're not considered a scam.
Like back then when I used to tell my family that oh i'm
into crypto space um they were like oh it's just a scam don't get into it or anything like that
but right now everyone is so uh bullish and supportive uh like my mom uh she's like oh yeah
yes yes my mom was like in in 2021 i told her that instead of
buying gold you should buy bitcoin and uh she's like no it's uh it's a scam blah blah blah and
now she's like huh you told me back then that you know it was going up and it actually did
so definitely this um i think we are kind of getting that on the face of legitimacy.
True, yeah. Same, same. Likewise, you know, I've had similar experiences from, well, of course, the parents and then the uncles and aunties and whatnot, you know.
Oh, this is all a scam. You're going to lose all your money, blah, blah, blah.
scam you're gonna lose all your money I mean it's fair because they didn't know
back then you know what the public media would say it was quite negative we went
from that to where do I like what you know where do I download I remember my
dad coming to me he was like okay first of all how do I download coin market cap
because he always you know bro's yes, it's like, I prefer an app.
And I was like, oh yeah, you go here and download it.
And he was like, okay, second, how do I buy from, you know,
Bitcoin from CoinMarketCap?
I was like, well, you don't buy from CoinMarketCap, right?
But yeah, I think he was like, oh, you know,
he went through the whole KYC at Binance and whatnot
and then deposited some money, some fiat. And then, yeah, I mean, went through the whole KYC at Binance and whatnot, and then deposited some money, some fiat.
And then, yeah, I mean, went through the whole process, some Bitcoin.
Didn't go too well at the beginning.
It felt scammed.
But then eventually, you know, well, the price has definitely picked up and has done quite, quite well.
So he's happy now.
But, yeah, to be honest, if you told me this in 2018 or 2019 I would just
have said oh you you are out of your mind you're crazy so yeah definitely can
relate yeah all right and one last question Naruto a. A light one to just end the conversation. Or, of course, if you have any questions for me, feel free to post them. But if you weren't working in Web3 right now, what do you think you would be doing instead?
instead um i think i would be in that's a hard question i think i would be in uh ai for sure
oh yeah because that that's what my background was uh being in uh being in before crypto so i
was into ai and machine learning so that that would have been what I generally do.
In general, yeah.
Okay.
Was it like a master's degree?
No, I just did bachelor's, but I also did my research,
undergraduate research in computer vision and machine learning.
So basically, I think that there build some models where people can you know
answer questions and then uh the computer vision algorithm will say if uh the person is happy bad
uh sorry happy angry surprised sad right and then and then my my research was basically
uh forming a relationship between that and then the dimensional level of people.
All right. I said this was the last question, but no, I don't accept this answer.
I want to know the real, real, like the very alternate, alternative, alternative timeline version of your life.
No AI. Something else.
What do you mean? What do you want to ask? I mean, I don't accept that answer. That's a little bit too close. I want like an alternate timeline or the multiverse. If I were not
at crypto, I think I would be playing soccer for rest of my life yeah i i played soccer
in college um in uh you know in the us i was in a college team and then i was announced i was on
a scholarship for that and then um from there basically i probably would want to open my own
like soccer uh field or like an academy or something that would
have been like a completely different yes and yeah this is the you know this is the alternate
timeline that i was looking for yes always fun to hear about these you know and yeah i think um
you know it came in i'm sorry because i might sound a little bit surprised or shocked but
I'm sorry, I might sound a little bit surprised or shocked, but from Web3 or more IT kind of lean jobs to a soccer player, there's definitely a big leap.
So that's why I was a bit surprised.
But yeah, this is exactly what I was looking for.
Thank you so much for sharing about that part of your life.
I've never expected it, to be really honest.
What's your favorite club, by the way?
Barcelona.
Oh, there we go.
Now we're talking.
Yeah, I don't even need to think twice to say it.
I've been following Barcelona since I was a kid.
2006, I think.
So ever since I've been following Barcelona,
I was a big fan of Ronaldinho when he came out.
Yeah, I was going to say.
That's when Roni came, right?
Yes, yes.
Roni too.
Yes.
I remember.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, yeah. Sorry about interrupting, man.
No, no. All good. All good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that's about it. Sorry about interrupting, man. No, no, all good, all good.
Yeah, man, same, same.
Actually, back in the day, you know, I grew up in Europe,
so you must support a team, right?
Yes, yes.
And back in the day, yeah, I watched a game,
and Ronaldinho was doing his magic, right?
And I was like, oh, this is it.
And then, well,
Messi kind of inherited
a lot from
Dinho, so yeah, it just continued.
And yeah, ever since.
Ever since. Likewise, man.
We have so much in common.
Maybe we'll meet
next year when I'm in the europe oh yeah hopefully definitely drop a dm
definitely for sure and um yeah um again well i booked you for an for an hour we're a little
bit over that so i'm really sorry about that but it's been a really, really enjoyable conversation, honestly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you for walking us through both the technical and the personal sides of your journey.
Yeah, super interesting.
Definitely.
Fun to find someone who, well, we have so many similar, you know, kind of hobbies and stuff, you know,
and also, well, we agree when it comes to Naruto anime stuff,
which is something that, well, to be honest, I don't think I've ever, you know,
spoke to someone in real life, I mean, that, you know,
yeah, that had, like, the similar opinions or or you know and so on um so yeah and before we wrap up
um we like to give the final word to guests so is there anything you would like to share with
our listeners whether it's a closing thought shout out or you know even well i mean of course where they can learn about avail um i think if anyone has any questions they can definitely reach out to me
or robin who is our another devro um and then apart from that i think uh if um you know they
want to work with avail uh i'm available um shout out to you and, you know, and good team for hosting me today.
It was really good.
But yeah, that's about it.
Nothing too much.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you again.
And yeah, with that,
I think we are ready to close this episode
of the Partner Spotlight.
Thanks to everyone who tuned in.
And we will see you next time.
Maybe a second episode in real life.
You know, enjoying a drink with Naruto over here.
We will see.
Sure.
Great talking to you.
Okay.
Thank you so much again for your time today.
And thanks, everyone.
See you.
