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Round Table #3: What utility should gaming NFTs have?
Recorded: April 10, 2023 Duration: 1:13:40Space Recording
Full Transcription
All right, all right, GM, GM, everyone.
We're going to get started here shortly.
I'm trying to get Memento up here while we are.
He is my co-host.
And then we have Jackal up here, Peanut Games, and also Shrapnel.
We're talking about a very fun topic.
So retweet, like, you know.
You know all the drill, guys.
But Jackal, Shrapnel, Peanut Games, how are you guys doing today?
GM, GM.
Stoked to be here.
What's good, fellas, ladies?
Nice to be here.
GM, GM, nice to be here as well.
And Mr. Wolves out.
We do have Ace in the crowd as well.
If you don't mind kindly introducing him up as well.
He's a part of Peanut.
Yeah, if he can request, it'll be easier for me because there's a lot of people that are up on my requests.
Hi, guys.
What's up?
You know, I saw that yesterday Jeremy said he was going to be here.
I don't know if Jeremy Horn was an intended speaker or if he's just showing up to chat.
But we should definitely get him up here with Overworld if he wasn't originally intended to be a speaker.
That guy's got all the alpha in the sauce.
Yeah, Jeremy wants to come up here.
He can request for sure.
We'd love to have him up here.
Do it, Jeremy.
Hit the button.
All right.
Looks like I got Ace up here.
All righty, all righty.
Any games that you guys played this weekend?
I know it was Easter weekend, so.
Oh, man.
So I have a seven-year-old and we went and watched the Super Mario Brothers movie.
And so we spent the balance of the weekend playing three different Super Mario Brothers games.
It was magical.
We laughed.
We cried.
It was wonderful.
What's the one that changed you the most, if you don't mind me asking?
Oh, Bowser's Fury.
You know, it's the first one that she could beat by herself.
And so it's obviously her favorite.
And we just have a blast running around in it.
And it's pretty lightweight for a seven-year-old, too.
So he can really get into it.
Nice, nice.
Yeah, I was actually playing some CSGO.
Getting ready for CSGO, too.
Memento has a lot more hours than I do.
Memento, how much hours are you having CSGO?
Too many.
I think around like 1,700.
Dan, Apex, I know you also have a lot of hours.
If you don't mind commenting down, I think you have us beating all of them.
But also love the comments down below, guys.
We are going to get started here shortly.
And we're just going to do introductions, actually.
And that might be Apex.
Apex, what's your time, brother?
I really want to know because I think it's upwards of – I think it's more than you, Memento, which is crazy to me.
But, yeah, I want to get started here.
I don't want to waste anybody's time.
Happy Easter, Monday.
Happy Monday.
And we'd love to just get to know every single one of you guys and let the audience know who you guys are.
I'll start off with my co-host, and then we'll kind of go in there.
AK says that he has 8K hours in CSGO, which is crazy.
Memento, we'd love for you to introduce yourself first and foremost.
And then we can get to Peanut Games, Jackal, Shrapnel, Jeremy, and then AC, and then Len.
Sorry, I was having some difficulties.
So I'm Web3 Memento.
I am one of the collaboration managers for the Wolves.
So if you're a project listener, definitely reach out to me, and we can discuss some details on potentially collaborating.
Furthermore, I share my thoughts on Web3 Gaming on a daily basis on my Twitter.
So give me a follow.
Yes, yes, give him a follow.
Peanut Games, you're next.
Who's behind that Peanut Games account?
Yes, GM, GM.
My name is MKT.
I currently serve as CCO of Peanut Games.
I have been working in this space for around two years.
Been in crypto since around 2017.
Been, you know, loving the gaming industry so far in Web3.
I'm looking forward to seeing it really grow into what it deserves to be.
Awesome.
Nice and short.
Jackal, my man, what's up, big dog?
How are you doing?
How are you doing, brother?
So, yeah, I am one of the core team members behind the Wolves style.
Today, I'm on the guest side of the table, which is a nice little change.
But the day job is at Delphi Digital, where I'm a research associate focused on gaming.
Yeah, happy to chat to some other bigger chats on the panel today.
It's going to be exciting.
100%.
And then if anybody hasn't read the gaming report by Delphi Digital, very insightful.
And Jackal was one of the writers behind it.
And he did get a heck of a great job.
Good job, Jackal.
Shrapnel, what is up?
Who's behind that account today, just so I can talk to you by name?
GMGM, this is Tony.
I look after Web3 marketing for Shrapnel, and I'm super stoked to be here.
Just a real quick introduction.
Shrapnel is an extraction shooter built on an Avalanche subnet.
We're offering mints across multiple chains to get people in-game content within our game and get them exposed to the ecosystem.
And we have a lot of fun utility across both our two mints that we've had and our token, which is about to be airdropped to our holders.
So, again, stoked to be here and can't wait to chat.
Can't wait, Tony.
And I think you have a lot of insights onto the topic that we're going to be talking about today, especially like you guys going the Avalanche subnet route and then trying to do a lot more stuff with NFT.
So, can't wait to hear what you have to say about this topic.
Jeremy, what is up from Overworld?
It's kind of a last-minute thing.
Sorry to put you on the spot, but welcome.
No, I love it.
Listen, I just wanted to join as a listener and support Wolves now.
I have nothing but respect for the team.
I had chats with Payton and a bunch of others.
And everybody's not only hyper-insightful and knowledgeable about a space, but also super cool and kind to take the time to educate makers and builders, Web2 gamers, about Web3.
I'm Jeremy.
I'm a 15-year veteran in gaming.
Worked at companies like Ubisoft, Gameloft, Jam City, Tarnico, now COO of Xterio and CEO of Overworld.
Worked on some of the biggest franchises in the world like Potter and Star Wars and Marvel.
And now building a next-generation Web3 RPG where there's a real focus on social collaborations and interactions.
Real focus on building an in-game economy where people are able to craft things within the game.
Not us serving to players and selling them directly, but really having players build items and weapons and towns and everything you can imagine from a fishing pole all the way to a castle and trade with each other.
So really excited.
We're still very early in our process.
This week is what we call phase two.
We're releasing some really, really big information about the lore, some animations, but still early for us.
So not as ahead of the curve as, let's say, someone like Shrapnel.
Yeah, for sure.
And I think that you guys have a lot of commonalities between you and Shrapnel in terms of empowering UGC and everything like that.
So also would love to hear more about your topic as well, Jeremy.
And then AC, I think you're here with Peanut Games as well, but I would love for your intro as well.
Yeah, for sure.
GM, GM, everyone.
AC here, co-founder and head of partnership with Peanut Games, app dev background, and really excited to be on this panel as well.
Yeah, looking forward to the conversation.
Awesome.
Thanks for being here.
And then lastly, Len, how are you?
Yeah, great to be here, guys.
Thank you very much for the invite onto this.
We're the new kids on the block by the sounds of it.
So, yeah, Len Finley, I'm the founder and CEO of Saltwater Games.
We're building a brand new motorsport racing world called Celeros.
Our first, and some of our listeners are on this, our first experience is going to be related to the real flying race cars in a game world.
So in Celeros.
But my background has been a complete startup junkie, building tech companies and investing in them for 25 plus years, UK, Middle East and Australia.
So with the flying race cars being one of the more recent ones, so alongside space tech.
Yeah, wait.
Been in the space for a while.
Awesome.
Yeah.
How long have you been in the space line?
Since about 2015.
Nice.
So, but under the radar, relatively new to social media just in general.
So, yeah.
And this is my first official Twitter space.
And what a lineup to be on for the first one.
Oh, yeah.
These guys are all rock.
Thanks for having me.
I know.
We tricked everybody.
And then, Jeremy, remind me to send you some ETH for that show, For the Wolves.
I know we agreed upon that before this.
So, love that.
I'm just kidding, guys.
All right, guys.
I was getting excited for a second.
I was like, maybe he's thinking about someone else.
I'll take it.
Yeah, where do you want me to put it?
Yeah.
No, that's awesome.
No, hopefully everybody had a great weekend.
And we're going to talk about, you know, we're just going to dive right in.
We're going to be, and then for anybody that's, like, in the audience and stuff, please, like, like, retweet, comment.
We're going to try to get through some of our questions that we have, but we also, like, try to keep this engagement on.
And this is a shout out to Sam.
He's kind of set up a culture for the Wolves Dow to be super interactive.
And then for us to have the audience to actually, like, shout out to Sam and the Gamified episode that they shoot on Wednesdays.
So, the topic that we're going to be talking about today is actually what utility should gaming NFTs have?
I know this is a super loaded question.
And that's kind of on purpose.
We want to make sure that we're kind of navigating this space.
And there's a lot of different ways that you can answer this question.
And so, I'm going to start off with that generic question on what utility should game NFTs have.
And then we'll start off with Shrapnel, just because I think they have a very good, unique insight on how things are happening with theirs.
And so, Tony, if you can explain a little bit about, a little bit more into Shrapnel, what you guys are trying to do.
I was there at GDC, the way that you guys were kind of having this big roadmap of not just a game, but, like, outside of game in UGC.
Would love to hear more about your guys' approach to utility for gaming NFTs.
Absolutely. Thanks, man.
And, you know, I hesitate to say utility should look like anything because I think it's going to be different for everyone, especially in this kind of nascent space that we're in as we all figure it out.
But the way that we're approaching utility is, you know, as Peyton said, really through the lens of UGC and additive content, if you will.
And what I mean by that is our game will never be gated by NFT holdership or inventory of your wallet.
But, like, it's a free-to-play game.
You can engage with all the modes of the free-to-play game without holding an NFT.
You know, your actual gameplay will not be impacted.
Things like cosmetics and such are what will be impacted by our NFTs.
And so there's a couple of different things that we're excited about.
But, one, everything, every item in our game, whether it's a weapon or a piece of a weapon or a skin or a piece of gear or gadget, they'll all be NFTs.
All the way up to and including the actual pieces of the maps that will be made available to players and modders of our games.
And so what that means is that players will be able to create, like, the best house in the game, right, for a map.
Like, if you're making, you know, we're an extraction shooter.
So you can imagine, like, buildings that have corners and rooms that lend themselves to exciting and high-paced matches and whatnot will likely rise to the top as pieces of content that people who build maps would want to use in their map.
And the person, let's say Peyton is, like, the best building creator in Shrapnel, he'll actually be able to build into the smart contract when he mints that building as an NFT royalties for other creators to use that NFT.
And he can set it as a one-time fee.
You know, you pay five bucks and you get Peyton's building in every map you ever build or a rev share based on the amount of revenue that the actual map is generating at any given time.
And so really excited about, you know, creating that creator economy and allowing people to really start monetizing their creations and their UGC.
You know, I think we saw the rise of some of the most prolific video games of our generation come through UGC, right?
Dota, League of Legends, CSGO, Team Fortress, right?
These are all games that started their lives as different games.
And we believe very strongly that there's a place for that in Web3 and that, you know, Web3 really lends itself perfectly to rewarding those creators outside of a gray economy, if you will.
So, you know, really excited about the kind of the macro vision of what UGC and tokenization means to us.
And then at the micro level or like the user level, you know, the other thing we're excited about is right now, if you have the coolest gun in Destiny, it's because you killed something and you picked up a gun that some developer at Bungie decided was really cool.
And that's cool.
I mean, you know, that's the way games work right now.
And I've played a lot of Destiny in my day.
But it's, you know, what I think is more exciting is the idea of Peyton showing up at like a championship or an event or winning, you know, 19 matches in a row or his 20th match in a row.
And then the on-chain gun that he's using or the on-chain gadget that he's used to kill people actually receiving some sort of achievement that we can then choose to allow him to peacock, right?
So, like, if you get 20 kills in a row, maybe you get an achievement that lets you change the color palette on your character.
Or, you know, if he gets 100, maybe then it's like a particle effect and, you know, it looks materially different.
So I think both the ability to reward people for their creations and the ability to reward people for their achievements are what we're focused on.
And we've got a lot of fun stuff coming out in that regard.
Love it, Tony.
And I kind of want to pass it off to Jeremy because, Jeremy, you have similar type of things, like you mentioned in the beginning about, like, you know, making a fishing pole and all that stuff, being more kind of like on the player than the, you know, Bungie or the company that's actually building a lot of this.
Could you shed a little bit more light on how you guys are approaching some of that UGC elements with NFTs and for overworld?
Absolutely. So, you know, what we're trying to do is really create a fully player-driven economy, right?
Which means that all virtual goods are player-created.
We don't sell them directly.
What we essentially add to the game are recipes, right?
It's that over time, we need to be able to add more items into the game and make sure that, you know, they're functionally correct, that they're somewhat, you know, that they are well-balanced.
But we do not want to be in the free-to-play kind of like, hey, this week, buy the, you know, new magic sword that's better than the old one and, you know, have this type of, like, very grindy mechanic.
What we want to create is a full-on economy where players are going to run the entire production process all the way from material collection, right?
And those materials are finite in-game, which could be, you know, mining for iron all the way to smelting it, forging it, selling it, enchanting it.
And over time, you know, and with the help of players and with the help of, like, some UGC tools that we will still need to, like, validate because there's an impact on gameplay.
You know, what Trapnel is doing, I think, is perfect for a shooter game because a shooter game needs to be, like, fully skill-driven.
And I think for an RPG game, like, the gear really matters in the fun and equation, right?
There's a real chase of, like, I want this new armor.
And so we're going to participate.
We're going to give UGC tools to the players.
But we will need to select what makes it in the game and release those new recipes.
So think about it a bit like Minecraft, right?
There are a lot of, like, similar vibes where players are going to run actions and they're going to, you know, formulate something or create something based on the recipe that we provide.
And so the fact that we're moving all of the economy from outside of the game, you know, as you said, like, classic free-to-play and pay-to-win games to an inside economy where not only all virtual goods are player-built, but also, you know, virtual currencies are player-owned.
And the moment we create that, our hope is that we create a very self-sustainable gaming environment where there's both, like, a real fun aspect, but also a real value creation aspect.
Awesome. Great insights, Jeremy. Thanks for that.
And, like, yeah, the difference between RPGs and shooters, and it kind of goes to what Tony's point is, right, which is, like, you know, utility for the NFT should be predicated on the game itself and not to, like, have this cookie-cutter type of way.
And, you know, what might work for Shopnall might not work for you and Overworld and your companies, Jeremy.
So, great insight there. I actually want to pass it on to Jackal, because, Jackal, you've seen a lot of projects now come across your desk in terms of Delphi Digital.
You know, has there been any type of, like, utility that NFTs have that, like, maybe gets you excited about it or maybe the opposite or where it doesn't really get you super excited saying, like, okay, this is maybe we've seen this too much?
Yeah, I think at some point there should be a bit of a distinction between, like, the utility of in-game assets and then what, like, NFTs actually add to that experience or to that asset.
And I think, broadly speaking, in my personal opinion, two of the most important is transparency and composability.
So, like, for composability, the fact that all of this information, or, I mean, and this, the caveat here is that this is, like, much harder to do in, like, a traditional game because so much data is kept off-chain.
But in the case of, like, on-chain games, for example, NFTs can essentially be, like, just permissionlessly written into certain aspects of the game, like creating new mechanics, systems, dynamics, that kind of thing.
I think that's really cool.
And we haven't really seen so much of that yet.
And then in terms of, like, transparency, it's everything that you can do in Web2, but, like, on an open leisure.
So, you know, utility, whether it be access in, like, passes or access keys or whatever that might be, whether it's the supply, the price, metadata, traits, that kind of thing.
It's all, like, like, you cannot deny what is on-chain.
The CSGO skins market is incredibly developed, like, much more than anything we have here in Web3.
But to some extent, you're taking the developer's word and there is, you know, limited supply is kind of, you have to take it with a grain of salt.
And I think not all gamers really care about this sort of undeniable supply or how, what the mint price was or whatever it was.
But to some people, they do care.
And especially when we look at, like, the metagamers and how, you know, new interactions between different types of players who may not necessarily play the actual game but are more interested in trading assets or, you know, diving into economic activities that revolve outside of the game.
I think there's some really interesting areas that we're still exploring right now.
The concept of PlayFi, I think, is really interesting and how they're incorporating NFTs to kind of facilitate those types of economic engagements, I think, is really interesting.
But overall, it's still, like, very early and I think teams should be encouraged to experiment with these new systems and not just, like, take existing ideas around in-game assets and then, like, slap it on the blockchain.
Yeah, 100%.
I think even what Tony said and something that you mentioned about transparency, about, like, what things are happening and, like, achievements, what, like, Tony mentioned was, like, you know, putting achievements on chain and everything like that makes the ecosystem actually greater as well as you build more on things on top of it.
Right now, now we have two case studies to look at for, like, overworld as well as shrapnel and then also even, like, some of these PFP projects.
I know Jonah has an NFT project coming out or he already has one out, but the PFPs are coming.
So, like, you know that specific demographic of people are going to be more gaming-oriented than, like, you would say, board apes, right?
Board apes are more, like, high luxury brand type of things, too.
So I'm excited to see where that takes, too, as we get more NFTs, as people start buying more, so we can kind of see things on the chain as well.
Peanut Games, Len, I would love for you guys to weigh in here on some of the things that you guys are doing and implementing for NFTs and utility in your guys' games.
Yep, shall I take it first or?
Yeah, go for it, Len.
Yeah, I mean, I sort of feel like we've got it the easy way on this one because we're basically essentially taking motorsport, which is an economy that's been built up over decades in the real world.
I don't know if anyone knows the framework that Formula One and MotoGP was built on, which was an agreement called the Concord Agreement,
which takes into account all of the different monetization pathways that emanate out from the core brand,
which would include infrastructure, tracks, land, community services, rental, engineering, intellectual property, tournaments, you name it.
So all these kind of things would basically emanate out from Formula One.
What we're doing is just taking that system and putting that into the gamer's hand.
So putting the gamer at the core of what is essentially the Concord Agreement.
And Web3 allows us to do that.
Or just this entire Web3 economic model or business model allows us to do that.
So in essence, that basically means that we've got utility in almost everything.
So from everything from the liveries and skins all the way through to shared ownership in a track that then would host tournaments that then has a reward system that goes back then through to the gamer,
which is exactly the same as what happens in the real world.
So in the same way that Tony was sort of saying free to play, yep, everyone's welcome.
And in the world of motorsport, in the real world, it's for everyone.
And it's exactly the same in our world as well.
So that basically means that we won't just support Web3 gamers.
We're going to be supporting basically Web2.5 and Web2 gamers too.
So that basically means that if you own your assets, you'll have the ability to basically take them out into an open market or not.
So I'll sell them on the closed market.
But regardless, each one of those assets will have utility, whether it's through identification, real world rewards, early access to future assets, discounts, promos, in-game utility.
There's a whole lot of things that we're sort of built into the framework of the business.
But we get to just lean on motorsport, if that makes sense.
No, yeah, that's awesome.
No, it does make sense, Len.
And then I'll pin up a pin to your Saltwater games right after this or during the thing so people can click on it and try to figure out what you guys are doing, which will make more sense for context there.
AC, our pinup games, anything that you guys want to talk about in terms of utility?
I actually want to stem up a question from Len.
But I want you guys to answer the overall question first.
Yeah, for sure.
So as far as like blockchain and how it integrates into our game is just a little bit on the studio.
We are a free-to-play mobile casual gaming studio.
So what does that mean?
We build games on phone that utilize blockchain technology.
The way that we did it was you download the game.
You play it as if, you know, if you don't have a connected account, you'll be able to play the free version.
But if you own an NFT, we have one NFT that's a battle pass.
That kind of is like the premium pass for everything that we ever do in the studio.
So you can play the premium version.
And also we have an Ether 1 PFP that you can also choose to play in the game.
And the game is already licensed by Google and Apple.
People have been playing it, utilizing the blockchain, you know, utility already.
So that's just a little bit where we're going.
I really like the conversation into UGC.
UGC is very, you know, unique and it adds a lot of depth to games.
So we are looking to do something in the realm of UGC as well.
But I'll pass it over to Mr. Ace.
That's just a little bit on how we utilize, you know, blockchain technology in the game.
Yeah, for sure.
And just to tag on to what MKT just said, there is utility built into our NFTs currently.
And, of course, more future utilities to come.
But I would have to say, do all games or even do all genres of gaming need NFTs?
I don't know.
You're right.
That answer is still yet to be determined in, you know, its final form.
But for what we're doing, of course, I think the word here was using as experimenting, right?
We're experimenting with an NFT to see what brings the most value.
And value is utility, right?
So whatever people derive as utility, they'll essentially derive as value.
And hopefully it could be monetary, it could be non-monetary or whatever.
But, yeah, it's just like, do all games need NFTs per se?
And that's kind of like the question we were asked by a lot of Web2 folks from our time at GDC as well.
And they're like, yeah, well, we can do that now in Web2, what you're trying to plan for Web3.
And then we throw in the whole UGC argument and they're like, oh, okay, yeah, we got it.
Yeah, that actually makes sense.
So there's a lot of sides to the coin, I guess.
Well, two sides of the coin.
But, yeah, for what we're trying to do, we're definitely trying to provide as much value in utility as possible.
And, of course, experimenting it as we go.
Yeah, for sure.
And, Tony, you want to add on to that?
Yeah, you know, I hear that a lot, too, you know, why are NFTs required for video games?
And, you know, I think your response was perfect, you know.
And I think the thing that I would add to that is I still go back to free-to-play gaming.
And when I say free-to-play gaming, I mean more than just the concept of downloading a game and starting to play it for free.
I mean, the idea of live services content or games that continue to exist and release new, enjoyable pieces of story or characters or, as Jeremy was saying, weapons and loot to find.
These are things that were revolutionary when they started, right?
Like, for years, for decades, the way you made video games, the way you sold video games was you spent a bunch of time building a multimillion-dollar thing.
And then you released it, and people bought it, and you never touched it again, right?
You might release some patches to fix some stuff.
And then eventually we evolved into expansion packs where you might be able to pay another $40 or $50 or $30 to get another 20 or 30 hours worth of content out of your game.
And when we released this concept or when this concept of free-to-play or live services gaming was introduced, games really started to become, you know, eternal, if you will, or as long as the community was alive to keep them going, really, right?
And we've seen that time and time again.
You know, you think about games like Warframe, which is not, like, a huge game.
I think they have, like, three or four million monthly average users, which for Web2 games isn't huge.
But, you know, they've really built themselves around releasing content every week and every month.
And in that universe, where you're constantly releasing content that players can earn via sweat equity or pay for, I really think that it's only going to make more and more sense for people to be able to truly own that stuff.
I was listening to Gabe Layden talk a couple of weeks ago in one of these spaces, and he said it's just not rational for people not to want to own this stuff.
And I totally agree.
Like, if you have the choice between spending $5 on a skin that you can own forever and do whatever you want with, or $5 on a skin that, you know, like my $6,000 worth of League of Legends skins will never be used again because I now have a seven-year-old and I can't play League of Legends.
It just doesn't make sense not to.
And I think, again, like free-to-play gaming, once the content is out there and people are unambiguously excited about it, and, like, no one complains that Fortnite isn't a $60 game that you have to pay $40 for every time you want new content, right?
And so I think that's where we'll end up.
Quick question for you, Tony, and this is actually for a lot of the people on the panel, is that what do you think about, like, in terms of the generational gap of, like, I know that you and Gabe Layden, a lot of these people think that ownership, like, really means a lot to people.
And I agree, too, to a certain point, let me just maybe explain a little bit, is that, like, there's a lot of, like, people my age, Millennials, Gen Zers, that, like, probably won't ever own a house, that won't ever own different things.
And, like, so for them, it doesn't really, I guess, matter too much about ownership as it maybe does for, like, baby boomers and Gen Xers where they do have, like, a lot of money to be able to do that.
And, but, like, the hard thing for me is that I do agree with the ownership aspect, but it's because I own a house, it's because I own things, it's because I have kids and everything like that.
But, like, you know, with a generation that's growing older, that are more single than, like, not married and all that stuff, do you think that it translates as well in terms of, like, ownership in that sense?
Is that, should that be, I guess, the main focus on that?
Jeremy, if you have something to say.
Yeah, listen, I feel like collection and collecting is a human trait in general, right?
Whether you're seven years old, whether you're 77, and you've seen it during the bull run where, yeah, you had younger generations trading NFTs, but they were also trading Pokemon cards, right?
Which I would argue, you know, there's a nostalgia aspect to it, but it really targets a younger audience natively.
But then, you look, you know, on the other side of the spectrum, you have people who have been collecting Magic the Gathering cards for years.
And often, you know, MTG players are a little older, they're more in their 30s, and they do have, you know, capital in the bank.
But there was still a huge market for Magic the Gathering cards, right?
So I don't, I mean, the education is going to come more about the fact that an NFT and a digital collectible is not something you hold in your hand, which is, you know, arguably a little challenging.
But, you know, I remember, I remember, we've all seen videos when the internet launches, when people are thinking what would be a fad, right?
And I think there's a lot of the same mental breakthroughs that need to happen before people understand, no, actually, you know, a digital collectible is owned, just like the money on my bank account, that is just a number on the screen, is real, right?
It's like, like, I can generate something out of it, I can transfer it into actual physical cash.
And that's true for NFTs as well.
The point I'm, I think, for NFTs, like, oh, do all game NFTs should be NFTs?
No, of course not.
There's just going to be a major difference.
However, when players put any sort of energy and time, having it be a actual collected owned thing is going to, you know, positively impact KPIs, so performance indicators that we've all been struggling with for years, which are retention and monetization, right?
At the end of the day, a game is lifetime value of a player, whether it's Web 2 game, Web 3 games.
And my hope is that Web 3 psychology will allow us to retain players longer and have them spend more in the game.
It's really basic math at the end of the day.
No, I love that.
I do think that there is new revenue type of capabilities when it comes to Web 3.
And I was talking with Nico from Bitcraft.
He owns FogDAO, and I recommend anybody that wants to dig more into, like, the details of, like, funding as well as just some of the minds of some of these developers.
Definitely go to FogDAO and listen to Nico and his crew.
It's freaking phenomenal.
But something that he mentioned on one of the podcasts was, like, you know, LiveOps, and Tony, you mentioned this, and Free2Play.
It became more of a formula than anything.
And so because of, like, a formula of LTV and all that things, people didn't really innovate in terms of revenue.
Can anybody maybe – sorry, we're kind of going a little – we'll do this one, and then we'll go back on topic because I'm just a little interested in this.
Was that, like, you know, do you think that Web 3 will also produce a little bit more revenue streams in that sense?
And, Jeremy, if you want to take this because you're kind of already on that path, but LiveOps and Free2Play were more formula-driven, do you think that Web 3 is going to break that mold?
So I've worked on Free2Play for 12 years, right?
So I've got a lot of scar tissue.
And, yes, it became super formulaic, right, which is why today Free2Play mobile games are hardly investable because the market has kind of been solved and captured by incumbents.
Yes, Web 3 is going to be able to improve KPIs and potentially increase retention and monetization, thus more money, more LTV.
However, this is all contingent on one big problem that needs to be solved, which is adoption on mobile devices, on Apple devices, and Google Play devices, right?
In fact, if your audience is just going to be Web 3, it's a terrible business.
I'll be very, very honest.
Like, making a game for just Web 3 people, you're like, I think I said it in another Twitter space, but it's like, if I had a game that had 20K DAU, which is, like, high number in Web 3, I would take that game and shoot it behind the bomb, right?
I would kill it tomorrow and just say, that was a fucking failure.
We spent one year making a game that's, like, you know, we're losing money on it, basically.
Goodbye.
So there was just, like, there's no such thing as, like, today making a game for a Web 3 audience.
I think you mentioned Yuga, but Yuga is, like, more, as you said, a premium luxury brand, almost, like, digital and mixed with physical and partnerships.
It's a lifestyle brand in many ways, at least until other did fully, like, release it and we can see if there's a real game behind.
But until that is fixed, and there are ways, you know, out of the world, we're thinking about some ways to fix that.
But until the market doesn't expand, there's no business in, like, Web 3 gaming.
So that's why mobile is, like, a massive, massive, massive, massive focus for, I think, everybody here, shrapnel, peanuts, everybody.
Love it.
Thanks, Jeremy, for that insight as well.
For anybody that wants to add on to it, please raise your hand so I can kind of maybe cut off the speaker and, like, move on.
But, Jeremy, I didn't want to cut you off on that.
That was excellent.
We'll go to shrapnel, and then we'll go to Len.
I see you unmuted, Len, but I saw shrapnel unmute first.
So we'll go to Tony, and then we'll go to you, Len.
Yeah, you know, I'm going to go back to my boy, Gabe, because I've followed him from early on in my career, which was later in his career.
But I listened to him.
God, I'm old, but it was on a podcast, I think.
It might have even been in real life.
What the fuck?
Yeah, exactly.
What the fuck's a podcast, right?
And he said something to the effect of, you know, I didn't know how to make a game that would ever be as popular as CSGO or League of Legends or Dota.
But I did know that my customers would create infinitely more compelling content than I would ever be able to come up with.
And that wasn't the exact quote, but it was something like that.
And that has stayed with me my entire career.
And I think that that is really going to be, and that's why I'm so passionate about shrapnel and our UGC approach.
And when Jeremy talks about a creator economy, it's that, you know, the wisdom of the masses and the creativity of the masses is just always going to be more compelling than what a smaller group of people in a room can come up with together.
And that's because just different perspectives, different views, different forms of entertainment, they all come together to create fun.
And, you know, it's a very ethereal thing to define.
But I really do believe that the people like Jeremy at Overworld, like Shrapnel, that are leaning really heavily into building worlds that our players create and enjoy with each other are going to be the big winners and be able to break that formulaic approach while still enjoying the upside of what live services games represents.
Love it, Tony.
Lenz, did you have anything to add on to that?
Yeah, so it was just basically coming back to the point you were making at the beginning there about the ownership and whether it's an issue or not.
For me, it's always been, I'm always a yield hunter.
So I'm always looking for yield from any spend.
So, and one of the biggest utilities that I'm sort of seeing that's coming through in some projects are the ability to generate yields on a passive basis as well.
So maybe there's, maybe some of them are within a cooperative structure as well.
So you have to do some sort of work or some sort of contribution to be able to garner the yield.
But I'm sort of seeing that as one of the pathways for, by the sounds of it, your generation as well.
And by the way, some of the wealthiest people I know do not own their own home.
They own lots of houses, but they rent where they want to live.
So, so it's the yield that basically pays for life, the lifestyle.
And I think I'm starting to see that more and more coming through when we're talking about utility within, especially UGC assets.
So if you're going to create a, I'll use our example, just because I know our example, but if you're going to create a track, for instance, in our world, and people are going to race on that, then that should generate and garner a yield back to the creator and the original designer of that land.
Whether that's a DAO group like Wolves DAO, whether that's an individual or whether that's a partner brand, it should garner a yield.
And I'm seeing that as the pathway within this gaming cycle.
And that's why almost to answer one of the other questions is, should everything be an NFT?
Absolutely not.
I think you actually slow down game experience with everything sort of going on and off to blockchain in some form or another.
So the ability to basically blend between the two things, and especially if someone's generated it and the ability to sell out in the market, that's probably where you would then require it to be something digitally immutable.
So hopefully that answers from our point of view.
But a yield for me would be number one.
No, I love it, Len.
I want to get to that.
I have a follow-up question to that.
But we'll get to Peanut Games and Tony again.
Peanut Games, go for it.
For sure.
I think one of the questions that was asked was, do you think that we'll see more revenue streams with Web3 integration into gaming?
I think we will see it.
But most importantly, it's really about making revenue streams for creators that are really creating, like Len said.
But I think that's really important to give, you know, literally power back to the gamers that is not possible to, you know, be stopped via blockchain, I think is probably one of the biggest things, you know, especially with revenue streams.
It's not about the companies making more money, but rather, you know, giving back to the gamers.
So just wanted to state that.
No, it's a great add-on.
I appreciate that.
Tony, and then we're going to take a little bit of a segment right after this.
But go ahead, Tony.
No worries.
Sorry, I'll just quickly add on to that.
I think that what Peanut was just saying was absolutely right.
I think that one of the things that I'm most excited about with Web3 is, you know, I came up in Web2.
I've been working in video games for, like, almost 20 years now.
And I've worked at, you know, Amazon and EA Sports and Nintendo.
And, like, these are really big companies where you can feel like you're having a lot of impact, right?
Because you are.
You're making stuff that millions of people interact with, right?
But from a personal perspective and really at the game, at the individual level, either the user or the employee or the player, wealth creation is really capped by the people who own the company, right?
And I think that's still going to be true of project leaders in Web3.
However, what I'm really excited about with Web3 is it feels like the competition is such that the people who find ways to share their revenue streams meaningfully with their audiences are going to be the people that win.
And that seems to be the motivation in Web3, or at least one of the tangible motivations in Web3 as opposed to Web2, where the goal, as we all just talked about, with free-to-play games in Web2 is really to create, you know, what we call compulsion loops and the ability to get people to spend money on your thing because they're enjoying it, which is great.
That is what we want.
We want games to be enjoyable and fun.
And I do think that, you know, Bobby Kotick making a bazillion dollars a year could be shared with the people who play World of Warcraft and Overwatch and the Blizzard games and make them the fun, vibrant economies that they are.
Not just the people that are creating new maps, who I think should 100% be rewarded.
That's a big part of our system.
But the people who are actually making the game fun for other people.
And those are the people who, again, this is what I get excited about.
Like, we'll be able to reward people in our game literally for creating moments.
And we'll be able to define what that means.
So, like, if you're streaming and you're playing with a person who has a hell of a gunfight and your stream spikes by, like, 30%, we're going to find ways to reward not only you, the person that was streaming, but the people that you were fighting against that made that thing so watchable and fun.
That's where I think a lot of the power is, right?
Like, I don't think people are going to make, again, like millions and millions of dollars being sick at no-scope, you know, headshots.
But I think the dopamine hit for making a dollar or five bucks when you do that every now and then is going to be fucking sweet.
And people are going to really love that.
That's awesome.
Jacko, are you unmuted for...
I know you're trying to move on, but I agree with everything that people are saying.
And I think UGC is going to play, and community in general, is going to play, like, an increasingly important role in the gaming industry.
But to sort of be devil's advocate here, I'm curious how people on the panel feel about Fortnite's sort of decision to move into the UGC scene and how they're rewarding their creators and whether or not, to go back to the original question, like, is the utility of NFTs even needed to achieve some of these goals?
Can I jump in?
Would be cooler if they were all NFTs, right?
There is a sense of control and ownership, even inherent in what Epic's doing right now with their creator tools, that still make it such that, like, you're making a thing and sending it off to, you know, kind of the void.
And then hoping that it not only makes it through kind of the approval process and curation process, but then enough people are able to see it via whatever curation systems are in place in Web2 to actually make it viable.
Again, with tokenization and Web3, and again, maybe there is a Web2 analog here that I don't see, but we're able to do really creative stuff.
Like, again, in Shrapnel, curation of content is going to happen based on individual holders staking their token against, I don't even know if I'm supposed to say staking, but, like, putting their token against content they think is more valuable.
And so, like, if Peyton thinks that Jeremy's map is the best map and that everyone should see Jeremy's map, then he can put up a million Shrapnel and say, I think this is the best map.
And if Jeremy's map starts getting played more often, then that Shrapnel that you've locked up will start emitting token based on the popularity of Jeremy's map, right?
And so, again, just kind of pat the idea that we can continually to pass value back to the people that have invested time and dollars into the game in a way that doesn't feel qualitative.
Like, there's a human sitting behind a computer judging whether or not another human should receive $5, but instead it's part of a contract that is, you know, permissionless and trustless and all that stuff.
I think that that's where the tokenization really, really comes into play.
Yeah, totally agree with that.
I mean, this is so one of the things that we do at Saltwater Games to try and categorize gamers in some form or another as either traditional, and that would be your Fortnite player where the wallet exists, but it's custodial service by Fortnite and Epic.
Or self-custody.
So, where they want to take their assets and they want to sell them onto an open market.
And the only thing that we can sort of figure out that controls either is trust.
So, for instance, Fortnite has built up a huge amount of trust within their community, which is why they can do this monetization path without any blockchain.
So, without any NFTs or without any of those kind of things, just basically just based on their own internal database systems.
So, I've got a lot of respect for that as well.
But it's super, super interesting to see them switch on this style of UGC revenue model now.
So, when I think they've been against what is essentially this open market that we're all talking about here.
So, if anything, I think the future is bright for us on the back of these announcements from Fortnite.
Yeah, Tim Tweeney, I think listening to his podcast on Game Makers like two or three years ago, he seemed like he's been thinking about this for a very long time.
Like that, like, you know, trying to open it up.
And also, his efforts against like Apple, Big Daddy, is like being like really crazy, in my opinion.
Peanut Games, I would love to get your answer.
For sure.
I don't know why it was rugging me.
It wouldn't let me unmute.
I just wanted to say, you know, Len, you hit on something that was, you know, very important.
You said trust.
Trust in this system is going to be extremely important.
So, that is definitely to note.
Also, Sharp, you kind of hit on something that I think is really interesting as well.
You know, we're seeing these games that are going to, you know, pay a little bit over time.
And I really do believe that, you know, casual games will benefit most from this type of model where you play a little, you earn a little, and it's not the Ponzi-nomics of the typical P2E.
I think play and earn is something that is extremely more interesting to me than play to earn because it could be done a bit better.
And I think it supports the game or has a more game-focused approach as opposed to, hey, just play this doggy game and make some money.
So, I just wanted to note that.
And also, shout-out to G-Rod.
I see you down there, G-Rod.
What's up, G-Rod?
And shout-out to Ivy and all the other peanuts here.
G-Rod's awesome, man.
And that's something that actually just stemmed out from Jackal's question, which is a great question, which I don't mind being derailed for a question like that, brother, so keep them coming.
But the question was, like, Tony, you mentioned something about, like, I guess the way that I've thought about it, I've never actually thought about, like, gaming has never been, like, niche-driven before.
It's always been, like, owned by, like, major corporate, right?
Like, Epic, Minecraft, or League of Legends.
You had to kind of be at that level to, like, really develop, like, a rev share with creators.
Like, even think about, like, in terms of YouTube as well, right?
In terms of AdSense and all that stuff, that's the only reason why they, like, give it or Twitch.
The bigger it is, the more that you can kind of rev share.
But I'm wondering, too, if, like, Web3, and I haven't really thought about this much, only because of Tony mentioned it, was, like, rev share for creators can now be on, like, the niche level, right?
For just a smaller portion.
And if anybody has thoughts on that, would love for you to do that.
I think that's where it's at, man.
I really do, like, I go back to Twitch, because that's where I spent so much of my career, right?
I was at Amazon for 12 years, I think, and I was on the team that bought Twitch and then created this thing called Twitch Prime, which is now called Prime Gaming.
And what we saw there was Twitch was really cool when we bought Twitch.
When Amazon bought Twitch, it was a cool thing and, like, lots of viewers and all that.
But it was really cool when Amazon started pumping tens of millions of dollars through the creator ecosystem, right?
Like, it's almost impossible to watch a Twitch stream now without someone saying, hey, please go use your free channel subscription on me, right?
And that was wildly intentional on our part, right?
It was free advertising for Amazon Prime.
We told Jeff Bezos that we would have everyone on Twitch TV talking about Amazon Prime.
And that was the goal, and that's what we did.
And the only reason we were able to do that is because literally my first year there, I was there for four years.
And I won't tell you what it was my last year, but my first year, we doubled Twitch streamer revenue to the tune of $30 million, right?
It was, like, $30 million the year I took over and then, like, $60 million the year after we launched Twitch Prime.
And $30 million of that, $60 million was directly from Jeff's pocket in the form of free channel subscriptions.
And so all of that to say, I really think that creating the flywheel where people are earning hundreds of dollars or even tens of dollars at a time, all it does is open us up to then pour gas on that mechanism when we start making a shitload of money, right?
And that's really what the – again, I really think that's going to be the flywheel.
As everyone starts making more and more money, the people that are making $5 start making $50.
The people that are making $50 start making $500, so forth and so on.
And I think you're always going to have, like, the hit-driven distribution where the most popular people make the most money because that's just, like, the nature of entertainment.
But I really do think that with sustainable tokenomics and the right mindset, meaning the willingness to share the wealth, we're going to be able to create in the same way that Emmett created careers at Twitch for people who otherwise would never have been working in entertainment.
That games like Shrapnel, games like Overworld, games like Peanut Games are going to create job opportunities for people that otherwise would be managing a retail store somewhere or some other job that they just did not feel was fulfilling.
And by the way, I've worked retail.
Lots of families still work retail.
I think it's an honorable profession.
But my point is for a lot of people for whom that wouldn't be their chosen career, they now have an alternative in entertainment.
And I think we're going to create that same opportunity here.
I love it, Tony.
I know a lot of other people might want to jump in, but I want to kind of give this last five to ten minutes for people to kind of just show their projects.
Because a lot of people are in the space now, and I want people to know about you guys and what you guys are coming up with.
And so we'll go in order, at least in my eyes, is Shrapnel, Peanut Games, Jackal, Ace, you're kind of with Peanut Games.
And then we'll finish up with Lynn as well.
But also encourage everybody here to follow these accounts.
And then after this, if there's some more time, we'd love to ask more questions.
But I know I'm trying to be respectful for you guys' time here first.
So, Tony, please let us know what Shrapnel has up coming.
Awesome.
Well, today we're doing a free mint for our operators.
I pinned it up top.
It's a Sigma container unit.
It's a containment unit.
It's a device that our players wear on the front of their gear in-game.
And holders of this NFT will get a series of exclusive skins and early access to our creator tools.
So really excited about that.
The whitelist has been going for a little while now.
We'll be minting today and tomorrow.
Holders today, whitelist tomorrow.
And then we also just announced if you check out our timeline that we will be doing the airdrop for tokens, operators soon.
And so if you haven't picked up an operator yet, that is the way to get in on the Shrapnel airdrop coming up here in the near future.
Awesome.
Thank you, Tony.
I appreciate you being here, man.
Great insights.
If you want to stick around a little bit longer, feel free.
We'd love to ask some more questions.
Peanut Games, what do you guys have coming up?
For sure.
So right now we have dropped the, you know, first mobile game from our studio.
We're working on our TGE.
So we're, you know, defining the last of the tokenomics.
We're getting ready for the TGE.
We're going to start the marketing campaign for the TGE and our token as well.
People are already farming our airdrop.
And this has been, you know, massive.
We have over our entire leaderboard of over 100 people is filled every week.
So we have a lot of people that are returning to farm.
But currently we're focused on TGE.
And that's where a lot of the manpower is over there.
And I'll turn it back over to Mr. Ace if, you know, you want to say anything?
Yeah, for sure.
I'm focused on TGE and continuing to build out the games as we progress into the rest of the year.
So we released our first mini version of our game on the Google Play and Apple App Stores.
There's more future versions of that game to come in iterations, as well as the release of our next games as a mini game version just to test out the market as well.
So, yeah, a lot of exciting things to come this year.
Awesome.
Thanks, Ace.
And I pinned up a post from Peanut Games up from the top.
Next up is Jackal.
I know, Jackal, you have a podcast coming up or at least a shorter form.
I would love to hear more about that, brother.
Yeah, I'll start off by saying, please don't DM me if you want in on the Wolves.
That's solely for SparkC and Payton.
Leave me out of that.
But, like, all kidding aside, I'm happy.
DMs are always open, happy to chat.
Anything Wolves-style or Delphi Digital related.
And, yeah, you're right.
We saw me and Alex Wetterman, the head of gaming at Shima, saw that or at least felt that the space needed a short form podcast focused on gaming.
So, we decided to fill that gap.
So, starting Wednesday at 10 a.m. EST, we are going to start hosting a 20-minute podcast on gaming.
So, yeah, happy for anyone who shows up there.
And be sure I'll be contacting a lot of people on the panel here to come in as guests in future episodes.
But, yeah, been a pleasure, Payton, as always.
And, yeah, happy to have spent this time here speaking with all of you lot.
Yeah, thanks for the question, brother, too.
It was a really great conversation, which led to some insights for sure.
And I pinned up a post from Jackal, which points to that report.
Definitely, if you want to go on his podcast, he's definitely the person that's going to ask some big brain questions.
I'm more of the smooth brain of the group.
So, Len, I would love to hear from what's happening up for your guys' studio.
All right.
Yeah, fantastic.
And, again, thank you very much for this opportunity as well, just to even just come out of the closet a little bit on this.
We've been – we're still fairly early.
We've got a good runway of building up our AAA racing world experience, which will be PC first, and then we'll scale it down to everything else from there.
But we do have a mobile experience that is basically launching in the next sort of few days to weeks, which is basically around – based around the academy experience.
So, just to go back a few steps, I invested in a flying race car company in the real world a few years ago.
I was on the board of that company and helped that company understand the economy of motorsport.
One of the challenges with a flying race car company, though, is how do you train the pilots?
So, it's a big challenge because, one, you've got to be able to get in these things, and the Gs and the performance is absolutely insane.
But, two, if you want to sort of learn how to be a Formula 1 driver, you can get a go-kart, get a car, you can experience it.
There's games, there's rigs even to experience those things.
But a flying race car is very limited.
So, that company at the minute trains about four to eight pilots a year, which means that the pathway in is actually through a game.
So, one of the reasons that we set up this business and this game world was to bring that experience to the gamer.
So, to then hopefully help create one inspiration for becoming a pilot.
But to do that, you've got to start with an academy.
So, our first, what's the word, our first steps into this new game experience are going to be through the mobile experience of the academy,
where you'll actually learn a lot about the vehicles and then have an opportunity to drop it into your living room through an AR experience as well.
So, that's then going to convert into things like early access for beta, as well as early access for all the liveries and all the various different assets that we're going to be allowing our community and the gamers to basically share in.
So, again, I think some of the conversations we've had today have been about those who share win.
And for us, the entire world will be built by our gaming community.
We're going to be doing the beginning of it.
We're going to prove the game, prove the world that we're building.
But we're inviting everyone else in.
And really, the early access is the way through.
But we'll prove it by delivering an academy experience first and show you how we do things.
Awesome. Thanks, Len.
Super excited about that.
And, yeah, it's very early, guys, in their development.
And we found it early in the Wolves, and it's definitely to Memento's credit as well because we find things a lot early.
But, yeah, we want to give Len some spotlight here just because what they're building is unique and awesome.
And that's what the Wolves do.
We try to shed light onto projects that are not rugs, obviously, but also what are trying to push the space forward in a different direction and innovating.
Also want to kind of give a shout out to Sam.
He's preparing for the 10th episode of Gamified, and it's pinned up to the top.
Definitely go and set a reminder.
People are, like, dying laughing but also learning at the same time, and that's honestly what Web3 is all about.
And Sam is a way better host than I am, so definitely compare.
Don't ever show up this one again and always go to his is definitely the goal.
Just kidding.
Keep showing up.
I beg you.
All right.
Oscar, also would love to plug him.
He's somebody that's been putting in work.
He just got to $1,000, and the next up is $10,000, in my opinion.
And so, Oscar, love the things that you're doing, brother.
Do you have anything that you're working on currently?
I know that you're also working on the Substack for the Wolves if you want to show that a little bit, and then we'll go back into questions.
Yeah, we will be releasing a Substack article for the Wolves every Monday.
So make sure to subscribe to the Substack and keep those articles in check.
Awesome.
Yeah, Memento puts a lot of work into that, guys.
So if you get any value in that, definitely follow him.
And he's just been crushing it in the Wolves.
And so to put us back on track, though, if anybody needs to leave, definitely go ahead and do so.
We're not going to judge you until at least you leave.
Then we'll talk about you.
Just kidding.
It's been an hour now, so we thank you guys for your guys' time.
We really do appreciate everybody coming out.
And I know, Jeremy, also, if you're listening to this after, thanks for coming up on the last minute.
Notice Tony put you on the spot.
But you have a lot of great values and can't wait to talk to you soon.
I think you're on the next base or the one after that.
I forget which one.
But, yeah, if anybody that needs to leave, feel free to do so.
And if you drop off, that's fine, too.
But I wanted to go to a question that I think, Len, you mentioned about more passive yield.
And I wanted to kind of maybe dig a little bit deeper into that, Len, where you said yield in some sense seems...
And I felt like you were alluding to the point of there was a lot of work up front for UGC that will then be able to give you yield.
And I wanted to speak to that a little bit.
I'm not a big fan, personally, for passive staking, where you just stake an NFT, you get some type of token and do that.
Because I think it really rubs against the ethos of gaming.
And even some of those whales, speaking, for example, like Genshin Impact, the difference of gaming and some of the whales in Web3,
where they just want to stake an NFT and get a token, where Genshin people spend 15 to 20k a month
on min-maxing their characters.
And that's very active, right?
That's a very active yield.
And the yield they're really trying to get is attention and community.
And so I want to kind of touch on that a little bit, Len.
I wanted to make it clear.
Were you alluding to the point where a lot of people make passive yield off of their upfront work of UGC?
Or are you just talking about staking an NFT and getting tokens?
Yep.
Good question.
So in our world, so when I was talking about passive yield, I wasn't really talking about us specifically.
So it was more general market in gaming.
Like DeFi is passive yield, staking and waiting for your return.
So a lot of that kind of thing.
But in gaming, you really need to do some work.
So one of the things that I really enjoyed finding out recently was how we're bringing essentially cooperative legal structures across into Web3.
They've existed in the real world since the 19th century, I believe.
So I don't know if you're aware of the co-op structures.
So they're non-security based.
They're based on effort and reward.
So, and I think gaming specifically plays very well with that co-op structure.
So I don't know if you've come across it yet.
I have not, but I'll DM you after.
I would love to read.
You probably can DM me in Memento.
We love reading that stuff.
We're a little bit of nerds on that topic.
Yeah, I'll send you some stuff.
It's actually really cool that Web3 has probably created the very first opportunity to bring a co-op structure across into the digital world.
So, and gaming is literally the perfect place for it to land.
And so everything from, because to game inside a world is to be active in it.
So that was all the way through from lore and narrative telling to being builders within that world, being investors in that world, owning and renting, all sorts of things in that world.
So in these game worlds.
So, yeah, I think you're going to like that structure and how it's actually a non-security.
So, which I think is exactly what the Web3 gaming environment really needs right now.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
I know Dapper Labs is having a hard time right now because they just got sued for being a security, right?
And so I'm definitely watching that one closely to see how it is and see if we have a shot in Web3 for sure.
Yeah, maybe I'll send a link on my, I'll put something on my Twitter anyway.
So if anyone wants to follow me anyway, yeah, I've applied for the blue tick.
As I said, I'm very new on Twitter.
So I apologize.
But I'll send it in there as well.
And if anyone wants to read into Web3 and co-op structures, it's actually a worthy read.
So it's very cool.
No, I would love to read it, Len.
Yeah, if you put it up on your Twitter profile, we'll definitely take a look.
And for people that want to see that article as well, follow Len.
And also follow Len for updates for their new game and what's coming up next for them too.
Awesome.
Tony, Peanut Games, did you guys have anything to add on to that?
Or we can move to another question as well.
The only thing I'll say again, just real quick, Alpha, is that in the next couple of weeks or a month, we will release some open sales of our land NFTs, which is kind of like, not kind of, it's the only way that we're going to be emitting token passively.
We're going through some final regulatory stuff before we put that up, but wanted to drop that here.
Awesome.
And then for that, for somebody that wants to buy that specific land, what are you able to do with it?
Are you able to build specific levels?
What is the utility for that?
Absolutely.
So I would think of them like dedicated servers in traditional Web2 games.
The different types of land allow the holders of that land to curate map content, game maps, and other types of UGC.
And then as I was describing earlier, any holder of Shrap can then go to that land and see what maps they have available and say, oh, I want to lock up some of my Shrap and promote this piece of land as having a fun map that I think people should play.
And then if people do that, then both the map maker and the people who are promoting the map will be rewarded.
Nice, and that's like an up, down, and downvotes like Reddit, though.
I like that, what you guys are trying to do with Shrap.
And I guess the person that puts in the most is kind of banking on that winning.
That's cool.
Yeah, we're really excited about it.
And it's a lossless risk, right?
It's more opportunity cost where if you promote something that isn't popular, it's not like you lose your Shrap.
It's just locked up and you can unlock it and then go put it somewhere else if you decide to promote something that ends up not being very popular.
I got that.
And this is not like, I feel like this is becoming more of a Shrap no AMA.
But in terms of this one, Tony, do you guys have maybe a struggle with if somebody wants to do that mostly for a yield standpoint?
So maybe they do think that one's more fun, but another map or another server is starting to get more traction.
They're just like, okay, well, I'm going to unstake for opportunity costs and go to that opportunity.
Or is it at least like on quarterly basis where like, hey, you have to stake for three months and then after that everything unstakes and then we do it again?
Like I could just see maybe an issue there where like people just go to where the biggest yield is, not so much the most fun.
Yeah, so there's a couple different mechanisms that we have in place to manage that, both regulatory and consumer driven, if you will.
So on the regulatory side, that's actually what we're finalizing right now is like, what does an epoch need to look like if we're going to go with epoch driven emission?
I don't think that we're actually going to do that.
I think what we're going to do is, and this is where I'm also too smooth brained, but our head of economy is this like fucking genius.
He's a literal rocket scientist.
And he has built a model that basically rewards people exponentially based on how early they are, right?
And so like it would mathematically not behoove people to unstake and then jump on something that's becoming wildly popular immediately is basically the net net.
That's a very simplified explanation of what I'm trying to describe, but that's kind of the gist.
Smooth brain to smooth brain.
You did great, Tony.
All right.
Um, okay.
Now we're just going to close up.
I want, uh, shrapnel, peanut games, Len, if you guys have any, uh, last words or parting words, uh, for the community down underneath, uh, would love for you to speak now.
Uh, just one last thing for me, and I didn't really get a chance to talk about it.
And it's probably a podcast in its own or a Twitter space in its own right.
Um, but one of the things to help balance these game economies, cause we talked about ponsonomic structures and some of the challenges in creating a balanced game economy.
Um, one of the things that I'd sort of urge, and this is, this is something I do in my own personal life.
Personal fund as well.
Uh, but dual return investing as an underlying, um, supporting element for your treasury.
So that means is the money flows in from all these things that you're doing.
Um, you then invest it in things that generate a yield, uh, that then helps to balance out the outflow of funds going back out to the gaming community and as rewards.
So, um, we call it play to impact.
So it's underneath our business.
Um, but it is something that we document online as well.
And it's, uh, something that will help basically create a really sustainable movement in web three, well, just web 2.5 gaming.
Cause I think we're sat right in the middle, aren't we?
So, um, it's just something to have a look at, but it's, uh, because I'm very impressed with all these game projects and everything that's happening in this across the panel.
So definitely have a look at it.
Awesome.
Thanks, Len.
Thanks for coming, brother.
Uh, last minute words.
So first off, I just want to say the quality of this space was rather amazing.
I love networking.
I love talking with people that are on the same wavelength as me.
I feel like, uh, you know, these conversations are really important to move the space forward.
So shout out to all the Kings, uh, that came up today.
And the last thing I just want to say is if you guys haven't played the game at peanut games, it's released.
You can download it on Apple and Google.
You don't have to connect the wallet.
If you don't feel like you want to the first time, just test it out.
The game is fun and you can farm an airdrop if you want.
So definitely turn on notice, uh, and wolves out anytime you guys, you know, want to have a chat, please hit me up.
You know where I am.
A hundred percent.
Thank you so much.
Uh, Tony.
Hey, thanks so much for having us up here guys.
And again, I'll just leave you a last thing.
We're, uh, we're minting our free mint now.
We'll have another free mint, uh, on Avalanche, um, in a couple of days.
Uh, we are, uh, sharing information about our upcoming airdrop.
And so the way to, um, to get our token, which will be coming out here, uh, imminently, um, is to follow the, the instructions on our, on our feed, but buy an operator, connect your account on, on our website.
And you'll be ready for the airdrop.
So, um, and likewise, just thank you so much for having us on Peyton.
We love hanging out with the Wolves Dow.
No, we love likewise.
I think you guys have been, uh, on a lot of our spaces when I was at Azra.
And, uh, we'll probably, I'm going to see you guys tomorrow for Magic Eden as well.
Right, Tony?
I will be there with my bells on.
All right.
Sounds good.
Yeah.
And then for anybody, um, I'm, I'm a marketing, uh, launch pad for gaming for Magic Eden.
So tomorrow, uh, I'll be, uh, co-hosting with a Magic Eden account.
Uh, so people that want to come out and, uh, join that or Wednesday, sorry, Wednesday, um, we'll be able to kind of do that.
I'll make sure to post it on, on Wolves and retweet from the space as well.
Oh, congratulations.
I didn't, are you doing that like as officially now as like part of your job?
Yeah.
Part of my job will be, uh, that this one I'm co-hosting, but I'll eventually be doing more like this.
And so you guys will be hearing me a lot on, on spaces.
Oh, dude, congratulations.
They, they really made a good pick up there.
No, I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
Um, so yeah, uh, super excited about it.
And then, uh, for people that want to join the Wolves, you know, there's an application, uh, to join it.
Um, and, uh, yeah, we're going through them.
There's around like, we've gotten through like a few hundred, but like there's still probably around a thousand active.
So please be patient with us guys.
I know we're like a month or two months, um, behind, uh, on that.
Uh, but there's a lot of things going on in the Wolves too, internally, uh, figuring things out, uh, as well.
So, uh, please just be patient with us.
Thank you for applying.
Uh, it really means a lot to us.
And, uh, yeah, we'll see you guys in the next one.
Uh, go to Wednesday.
You'll be here to Sam.
That's the one that we're going to go.
Uh, Wolves are going to kill some Eath lizards again, uh, as always.
And I always used to talk crap to Eath lizards so they can't defend themselves, uh, while, while I have them like.
So, uh, I love you all.
I'll talk to you guys, uh, in the next one.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
