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Rune June | The Ordinal Show
Recorded: June 2, 2025 Duration: 2:50:55Space Recording
Short Summary
The recent Vegas event showcased significant growth and excitement within the Dog community, highlighting successful onboarding efforts, innovative fundraising strategies, and the power of decentralized movements in the crypto space.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What's up, guys? Happy Monday. welcome to the ordinal show and of course happy ruin june as well i know
lots of uh i know jan was flooding ruin june saying that uh it didn't start yet i mean we
got another 30 days yon for your june to happen man it's you know we got some time we got some
time for ruin j June to cook and be
a thing. Look, there's a ton we could talk about. We haven't really gotten the co-host back together.
I think Trevor may join for a little bit, but I'd love to recap Vegas a little bit and just chat
about some of the happenings. I think this dot swap nexus decentralized market making thing last
week was really cool. We didn't really get a chance to talk about that. I don't know. Apparently, I was shared on our prior Wednesday show that
the guy who lost his hard drive in the landfill is auctioning off 20% of it, which is apparently
a $78 million raise, and he's doing it as an ordinal collection. I don't know what the deal
is there, but apparently it is a thing that's actually happening i think so um whether he gets to 78 million or not is obviously tbd uh but that
is the thing so yeah let's kick this off yon how was vegas man how are you doing
gmgm bro how are you vega vegas was crazy man. I got back on Saturday night, Hong Kong time.
And yeah, it was crazy four days. I was only in Vegas for four days and it was just nonstop.
So it was great, man. How was your Vegas, man? Were you observing it? Were you actually paying
attention? Were you watching some live streams or
were you just kind of like you know just chilling and and not really doing much because the
engagement on the timeline was probably not that great um you know it's interesting sometimes
these conferences will happen and you just kind of live your life and don't really worry about
them don't think about them this one was different. I don't know why, but maybe it's because prices are doing well.
I don't know.
Like the Bitcoin price is close to all-time high,
but it was all over the timeline.
Not even just, you know, runes and ordinals and stuff,
but just like, you know, it would be like some,
it would be some like streamer girl from Ethereum's there.
Everybody was there, it seemed like.
And lots of things going on, just lots of happenings.
Everybody watching Sailor.
It was definitely the event on crypto Twitter of the last week, I would say.
In addition, there was a few other things, I guess. But yeah, like I saw, you know, just infinite pictures of like giant
puppets and dog inflatables on my timeline and like parties. I know the Trio House had this like
crazy party with like a Mike Tyson look like. And then I think like there was just, you know,
I think there was a Bitcoin Shrooms booth. Obviously, the X-First Liquidium booth was
pretty sick. People are just sharing pitch like
people were sharing pictures a lot more than they usually do and then i think like on that that first
day before the conference the inscribing uh ordinal the inscribing atlantis stuff all seemed to go
really well and like trevor's party was pretty badass so all in all it just seemed like a good
time and it was getting shared a lot at least it was showing up in my feed a lot.
So, yeah, it seemed like you guys had a good time.
Had you been to Vegas before, Yon?
Yeah.
I enjoyed everything, you know.
Oh, shit.
Can you hear me?
Yep, you're back.
Okay, yeah. know oh can you hear me yep you're back okay yeah i um you know maybe maybe there is a little bit of
uh a little bit of problems but glad i'm back so what i was saying is that i really enjoyed vegas
i really enjoyed everything about the conference the side events it was really like so many things
happening that i couldn't even make it to all of them because there was a lot of parties and i had a lot of like one
on one meetings and sometimes i just got stuck in a meeting until 10 30 pm and i just couldn't make
it to the party anymore because i was exhausted so i really enjoy it i think it was very productive
i have to give flowers to the dog guys you know dog of bitcoin the official account the community
because those guys really nailed it man like, like with the booth and everything.
They were hustling for three days straight.
They were like pushing everybody to the experts booth.
I think together, collectively, we onboarded like hundreds and hundreds of new people into
Doc and Bitcoin and experts, which was pretty crazy to me because usually it doesn't happen
crazy to me because usually it doesn't happen at these events it's really hard to get people from
at these events.
this like offline kind of event into like these products like it's really hard but like this time
was different you know obviously like it was basically the biggest bitcoin event so there
was thousands of people every day however it was like really surprising to me how people were
interested in these things like be a dog be it like the bitcoin defy and
liquidum and experts and many of these other things that were featured in the in the event
and so have to really give flowers to those guys that were hustling like crazy and uh yeah just
like you know overall really good conference man one thing that i fucking hate about vegas and i
don't know if you guys are so used to it because you know
You guys go there party and you know go to casino. I guess that's what people in the US do
But like bro, there is no fucking water anywhere at the hotel
They charge you 20 bucks for a fucking bottle if you want to like get water somewhere
It's almost impossible. You need to order Google like uber eats or something and it's it's it's really
up like if you don't have a vip ticket to the conference where they give you water in the vip
lounge like i don't know how you survive man like like i just don't get it like i i really feel like
we should make sure that having access to water is a is a human right even even in Vegas. It's a desert.
They don't have water everywhere, bro.
This is not Hong Kong, okay?
Oh, my God, man.
Man, this was just, like, so funny, man, to me.
But I guess that's Vegas.
I guess everybody's kind of counting on it.
They're prepared, and I'm just like, you know,
I'm just like, you know, the one that have high hopes from europe where they give you like filtered
water machine in every hotel you know you don't even have to ask for it they just give it to you
what with the little fruit the little cucumbers i i mean that's one but like they even have like
you sound like you need a lot of special things in travel and stuff right you need this like fancy
gym and like man is water really fucking special bro they sell there's like dudes that sell bottles
of water out of coolers on those little bridges across the streets for like a dollar that's
probably your best bet no that's you know i'm i'm joking i mean obviously i get it it's it's vegas
but man another thing and i know some people love it i actually discussed this with a couple people
uh at these events and like i'm not a a big fan of Vegas just because the hotels are too crazy, like, too big.
There's just, like, always so many people because of the casinos.
Like, it takes me 15 minutes in the morning to just get to the gym in the hotel.
Because it's, like, a completely different part of the hotel.
It's, like, separated.
They make me walk through the…
They're a resort.
So each one is a massive resort. Yeah, it's like separated they're resorts so each one is the yeah it's it's yeah it's crazy so
you know again like you know i'm not gonna complain because it was great and you're
saying our american hotels are too big and the water is not it's really just vegas man it's
really just vegas i i don't really like, you know, like you have to kind of like fight through like crowds of people just like, you know, to get to the gym and stuff like that.
You know, like I like to have my peace in the morning, you know, but people just gamble 24-7 in Vegas, bro.
It doesn't really matter.
You wake up at like 6.30.
Vegas is not your little meditation area, bro.
If you do a wellness place, it's not Vegas. Vegas is not your little meditation area bro if you get a wellness
place it's not big yeah i get opposite of where brian i get it i get it man like i i'm usually
used to the fact that i wake up at 6 6 30 a.m and there is literally no one like no one around me
but in vegas people just gamble all the time and so even 6 even 6.30 a.m., the casino is still full of people, man.
Bro, they're hanging out from the last night.
People stay up all night and then sleep during the day.
That's just how Vegas is.
I mean, Vegas is crazy, man.
Vegas is crazy.
Vegas is really crazy.
But no, like, you know, all in all, it was a great experience, man.
It was a great event. I think those guys from bitcoin magazine that did really awesome job and obviously all the other organizers
of the side events like like really really good stuff like even the trio house like you mentioned
the trail house like i only went there once because it was a little bit far away it was like 20 minutes
by uber from the main event so i couldn't make it
there like for every single event that they had throughout the week but i made it there for one
of their like vip kind of gathering and man they got a lot of freaking influencers and like some
really influential people in the bitcoin space to go to the mansion and hang out and they had some
cool fireside chats and stuff so you know
those guys from ordinal's bot they they really killed it i i really you know have to all these
guys like flowers and and props because it was it was really really cool yeah all in all like i think
just the space showed up really well um i know like taproot alpha guys did a big thing like
just a bunch of events, a bunch of stuff.
Like, yeah, I'm proud of the space, guys.
We showed up well.
We showed up well.
Vegas is definitely a different beast.
It's, like, Vegas is actually a great deal.
Like, if you want a vacation and you don't gamble, like, Vegas makes all the money on gambling, right?
Like, everything else is to attract
you to the hotel to then gamble so if you don't gamble and Vegas is very fun without gambling
I mean I would say you know gambling just for fun a little bit it's like really not very harmful but
if you don't like if you don't want to gamble Vegas you could there's so much you can do there's
like infinite like here's the deal.
I'm, I don't know.
Yeah, I kind of get the feeling you might not be like this, but I'm a sucker for just like classic fun marketing, fun type of stuff.
Like, you know, there's like a giant pinball art, like museum, like, you know, I love that
kind of stuff.
Right.
So, you know, Vegas, I'm like a sucker for that kind of stuff.
So the roller coasters, all this stuff, it's like cheap, good fun that I like a lot.
So Vegas is great for that.
It can become very expensive if you gamble because all of a sudden you sit down at like
a medium or high stakes table and that was like the cost of your entire trip.
So, you know, very cheap, nice hotels, all kinds of crazy, great entertainment.
That's actually just not, it's really just not that expensive.
And now they've got all the sports.
Like I would say over the last 15 years,
what's really transformed Vegas is the sports, right?
They've got a football team.
They've got a hockey team.
They've got a baseball team coming in.
And they've got a ton of like UFC fights.
And, you know, it used to mostly just be boxing, I think.
And now it's all that other stuff.
And it's an interesting city.
It's got a lot going for it.
I think it's honestly probably the best place in the US to host a conference for something like this for crypto.
I think it just aligns with like you already have to travel.
You know, one thing, Leo, like one thing that that really surprised me I will I
will tell you one thing that I noticed I don't know if other people noticed but I was like really
surprised and I actually thought about it for for a while so there was zero security bro like like
zero like I could actually just pull up in an Uber go to the expo they would drop me next to the expo I would
just go using escalators one floor up they would just check my ticket and they would just let me in
like they didn't check anything like they didn't check my bag they didn't check anything like if
I'm carrying something if I have a fucking gun no like like I was really fucking surprised by this because I remember in Nashville like obviously
like Trump spoke at that event right I get it this time it was quote-unquote just JD Vance it was just
the sitting vice president of the United States was at the event so it's different thing I get it
but like in Nashville they would have security every single day they
would check your bag and when like tram was speaking during the day they would completely
lock it down like with uh with like security everything like the secret service and like
i was just surprised that there was literally zero they wouldn't even check your bag there was no
scanners nothing like is this normal like please explain i think that last nashville thing was unique because it was the basically presidential candidate i think the
reality is like i don't want to shit on vice presidents at all but vice presidents are kind
of a sideshow it's like they're like a 50th as important as the president so yeah i think like
it would be if the president was there that that probably would be the thing. Right. Again. But Vegas is also, yeah, Vegas is extremely safe and it's because of the financial incentives.
Right.
So each resort is basically a private little country and they're like a mob boss, dude.
Like you don't do any fuckery on their resort.
Like if you're fucking with their bottom line, they'll kill you.
Right.
I don't not actually kill you, but you just don't fuck with their bottom line.
Because you get a reputation of being unsafe, you've now cut into their billion-dollar annual revenue.
And the kind of people who run casinos, now it's gotten super corporate.
But traditionally, you would not fuck with any casino.
Basically, it's like a private army will fuck you you up and you don't want to mess with that.
So Vegas Strip is extremely safe in general for this reason.
So not only do the resorts have massive incentive to not have a safety brand issue, which you could easily imagine happening in casinos.
Right. So they're extremely strict about it.
But they also have, you know, the Vegas police, at least on the strip.
I'm not speaking for the rest of Vegas. I think there's definitely sketchy areas in Vegas. I don't live in Vegas, by the way. I've
only been there twice, but, uh, yeah, I think there's sketchy areas in Vegas, but the strip
is extremely safe. You know, it's a tourism industry, so they got to keep it safe. And then
these inside the resort, you're super safe. And I think you're probably underestimating the amount
of surveillance technologies going on in these hotels man i think you're under massive wells
you're probably way safer than you are in nashville um but yeah it is interesting i guess
you're saying they didn't do any like scanning you in and checking like yeah zero you could
walk that was the thing right like basically, they never checked you for anything.
There wasn't a desk where you walked through a metal detector.
Saying that, like, please don't bring guns.
You know?
That was the only thing that, like, people said in the conference or stuff like that.
And that was it.
Literally, zero security.
And, like, they wouldn't even check your back, as I said.
Like, you know, you could...
I had a back. I had a backpack know you could i i had a back i had
a backpack but did you obviously didn't have anything in there metal detector no nothing
nothing like that and so that that was the thing that surprised me right like i i think what you're
describing with the incentives makes total sense especially if it's part of the resort like the
venetian hotel where it was hosted i totally get this i think this makes so much sense to me but still like i would expect at least some like level
of like metal detector or like couple people standing there just in case right somebody wants
to around because i get it like in a casino but like this is like a kind of separate event and uh
there's like a lot of random people like flying from around the world, right?
It's not just people from Vegas
or people who understand these incentives necessarily.
So again, I was just surprised by it,
but maybe, yeah, maybe I just don't see the whole picture here.
Well, I mean, did it end up being pretty safe?
I didn't hear of any incidents.
No, it was great.
It was great.
I wouldn't feel unsafe.
Like I'm not saying it that I felt unsafe,
but I was just surprised, you know, like I've experienced a lot of events, especially in the
United States. I've been to a lot of different places, attended a lot of big conferences,
not just the Bitcoin ones. And every single time they would at least check your back,
you know, or you would have to go through like a metal detector, like everywhere. It doesn't
matter if it's Nashville, if it's miami if it's like other
places but um but here this time nothing so there was just one thing that surprised me but but your
explanation was pretty pretty good actually i want to hear from dog father dog father you got any
interesting analytics for us this week no dog father i think you're wrong, man.
We can't hear you.
Yeah, I cannot hear Dogfather either.
So I thought it was me, but I cannot hear it.
Yeah, Dogfather, just drop down and come back.
Tuxedo, what's up, man?
Obviously, you're in Vegas, bro.
How are you doing?
Hey, guys.
I'm still recovering, by the way.
Vegas was awesome.
So many things, so many things so many things but uh i'll start with the from the last point that jan said actually uh it is 100 true i've also been around
the states in in big conferences and in new york not only at the main conference they will check
you for firearms at side events like you will go to a
random side event and some some dude is gonna be like all right turn around so yeah uh vegas felt
pretty safe actually leo from the way you described it sounds like you were there last week i mean
you know so i mean vegas is pretty dissimilar on a day-to-day.
I was definitely not there, unfortunately.
I wish I was, but I definitely wasn't.
I don't know, man.
Some people say that the Mike Tyson stand was you.
No, I'm joking.
But yeah, Vegas was super cool.
But yeah, Vegas was super cool. I just want to say something about Jan.
I just want to say something about Jan.
Jan is not the guy we all thought he was.
I met him in person.
And yeah, I cannot say more because what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
But yeah.
Hang on, hang on.
Are you telling me that Jan lost you in a push-up competition?
Actually, this is very possible, but it didn't happen.
Jan, how many push-ups can you do?
Man, I don't know.
I don't know how many push-ups I can do now.
I'm just going to jump in here.
Jan says that he can do like 70 or 80,
but when it's videotape versus bongo, he only does like 30.
So I think it's more like 30 or 40.
I can definitely beat that.
That number, Leo.
Hang on.
I want to hear an update on the bicep curl situation.
Did anybody lift that 100-pound dumbbell?
Man, we got rocked.
We got rocked.
Unfortunately, the bicep curl competition didn't happen because JD, the guy who was supposed to organize it, he basically had that thing stuck at the customs.
So, you know, I don't know if it was because of the fucking service.
Yeah, he couldn't get it from the customs on time.
So we got rocked, man.
Unfortunately, it didn't happen.
But hopefully next time it's crazy
i'm just imagining somebody like trying to lift the bag onto the airplane it's got a hundred pound
you guys should have just bought it in vegas they're like dumbbells it's just metal it's like
50 bucks you know bro that was it was a bitcoin it was a Bitcoin logo turned into a dumbbell, man.
That was like on purpose.
It was cool, man.
If it was just like a dumbbell, of course, like, you know, we could have bought it there.
But we wanted to make something really fucking dope.
And he really spent a lot of time on it.
And then we got rocked.
So we just have to do it at some other event.
You know, we probably do it in Hong Kong next.
Love it.
Love it.
And I know like Hong Kong's coming up in a few months here.
It's like the next Bitcoin conference.
Yeah, man, it's crazy.
It's three months, basically three months.
And yeah, it's going to be a lot of work, man.
Like, you know, I'm not, you know, in a position to like announce anything just yet, but hopefully very soon.
And, you know, it's gonna be it's
gonna be awesome i'm i'm super excited for for hong kong obviously dog father you with us now
yeah i'm trying it trying it do you hear me do you hear me yeah you sound great oh man
twitter is so hard on me i don't i don't. Somehow I violated some rules or so. I would really love to hear how the Kraken Listing Fadi went.
I had an invite from a very very kind person and I couldn't go.
My FOMO was like 10 out of 10. How was that event?
Sorry, Dokvado, which event? Are you talking about vegas like the bitcoin vegas yeah
it can't vegas any specific there was there was a party sponsored by creaking and in the omni uh
place in the omni club uh this was supposed to be um you know the the dog listing party
the dog listing party.
Anyone there?
Well, you know, obviously it wasn't the dog listing party,
but some dog people did get invited,
which is really nice to let us bring some VIP dog people.
I didn't go.
I don't know if anybody here went.
So, Dogfather, we may not be able to help you out, man.
The party looks sick.
The videos look cool.
Omni is obviously, you know, one of the cooler clubs in Vegas.
So, I know, like, Jake and Adam McBride went there, and Jake actually used to work there, which was kind of fun, I think, to go back.
But, yeah, look, I don't know.
It just looked fun.
It looked like a pretty crazy party. It's actually crazy. Like, the budget for some of these things is, like, pretty high, I don't know. It just looked fun. It looked like a pretty crazy party.
It's actually crazy.
The budget for some of these things is pretty high, I think.
I think in crypto, I don't know the incentives exactly.
I don't know, honestly.
But in other industries, I don't think your marketing team gets a budget to do that kind of stuff.
I think you can do commercials.
You can do more traditional marketing.
You can work with an influencer.
But very rarely do you get to just run out a massive 3,000-person club in Vegas and just throw a huge party.
That's not something that happens.
Robin Hood doesn't really get to do that.
You know what I'm saying?
That's a pretty crypto thing. We'll have to get an update, though. We'll have to get an update on the next show, Dogfather. Okay. Anything, guys, anything else? Anything like spicy happened in Vegas? Anything the timeline didn't hear about? Any drama? I don't know. Like, give me the scoop.
I don't know, give me the scoop.
I don't know, man.
I cannot recall anything spicy in a sense.
You know, I don't know.
I think it was just really good stuff.
How do we expect Jan to know the spicy stuff?
The guy was walking around in a freshly ironed and steamed shirt.
He was so pristine.
There's a way you'll get drama from this guy.
Jan somehow knows about a lot of the drama.
Jan will message me stuff sometimes.
I was maybe seeing if he'd do anything.
All right, all right.
Dogfather, what's up?
Yeah, just from the timeline right just from my impression i think
the 50 100 or 200 bucks spent on this inflatable dog i think this was the best bent marketing
dollars ever i think this was showing up quite a lot on the timeline so uh really love that
super cute you're talking about that giant one on the rooftop no no the one in the
conference the one in the conference gotcha yeah so i saw the puppet a few times but i saw the dog
even more so i think this was really well spent this inflatable i don't know who's doing this
custom-made uh puppets uh and and puppies and dogs but this was really cool yeah look i think like
that's probably a takeaway from the
event is that doing an inflatable is like extremely successful marketing because both puppets and dog
did it and they were just all over the branding they were getting in cnbc articles robin hood was
showing a photo of dog like all kinds of just free media coverage from the big inflatables and uh
media coverage from the big inflatables and uh yeah like it's it's uh it's interesting
it's like yeah i think my guess is you know the next conference there will be more of them or
something because it was clearly a very successful thing and the to me like the ones in the conference
were great it was cool and all but like this game i like the one on the rooftop was just insane to
me i saw the first photo of that.
I thought they were just going to do a second equal sized one on the rooftop.
Right.
Which, you know, was big.
There's no question it's big.
But that dog on the rooftop was freaking bad.
Like the actual scale, if you look at a photo from far back, you know, it's like hard to tell the exact height.
height, but I would say it was like five humans tall. If you look at the scale, like the human
But I would say it was like five humans tall.
is there standing and the head doesn't even reach the bottom of the Bitcoin logo on the chest of
the dog. It's just, it is a massive dog. Vito gets so much credit for, for putting that thing up.
I would love to see that thing inside the Bitcoin conference next time. I think that would be pretty legendary.
I think that would be pretty fun.
You know, Leo, I just realized something.
I get this every time in the States.
Americans will use anything but meters to describe something.
Feet.
As you said, five people long.
Like anything but meters.
50 burgers long. 25 equals wide yeah we
definitely don't use meters here dude but look I thought you're I saw a video
of your conference speech tuxedo at the dog event at the dog party man you did a
good little speech there appreciate that you got people hyped tuxedo
for people who didn't see this video tuxedo basically like takes the mic in the middle of
the party and starts like stands up on uh this thing and just gets everybody super hyped pretty
funny i enjoyed it you did a good job man Man, I was also sober. 100% sober. I meant every single word.
Like, you know, this situation looks like, you know,
a guy just got drunk and he got them.
No, I was sober.
Yeah, I think that's a good idea.
If you're going to give a speech, you want to be sober.
Like, I had to do a best man speech recently
and I definitely made sure that I was sober for that.
Like, I think uh some people like yeah
you got to be careful when giving speeches that you don't want to be drunk not a good idea um
spirit what's up were you in Vegas yo GM GM yeah I was and um I just want to say dude it was
I had an amazing time.
And I didn't, it's not from like partying or anything, just, just from like accomplishing my set out goals and just seeing the energy and focus and, and, you know, just drive of so many different aspects of Bitcoin and, you know, plans and attention on scalability.
And I'm with you on, it's so funny, you guys brought up that inflatable,
you know, whether it's puppets or dogs, it was like, it's funny because I was,
I mean, literally, right, when you get there, it's the first thing everyone notices you walk in and I was the same way. I was like, Oh my God,
what a simple genius, you know, strategic marketing, you know, brand building fucking
effort. And, uh, you know, it's, and it's almost low effort to be right. It's, it's literally like
low effort and it does so much. I just thought that was, that was phenomenal, but yeah,
I entered the hackathon. My team entered the hackathon and, and that was a strategic move
because we wanted to not infiltrate, but right. Kind of get past any barriers and stuff for to talk about ordinals and ownership and you know scaling bitcoin and and
and some newer concepts and we and we felt that entering the hackathon was an incredible again
strategic you know low um kind of low barrier entry way to do that
hell yeah i love that so who was the winner of the hackathon
oh it wasn't us um and that's all i kind of most most most of the hackathon when all the hackathon win, all the hackathon winners, there's like 200 people, right?
And to be honest, you got to realize how most of those entries are very Bitcoin focused, right?
They're around technology that is like strictly kind of Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin traditionally.
kind of Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin traditionally. And so it's kind of hard to, you know, we felt
like, hey, if you can penetrate that with a different, you know, a new concept, you're kind
of winning. We did get an honorable mention though. We did not win, but we got an honorable mention
for Bitcoin world assets. And, you know, it had to do with uncommon sats
or it has to do with uncommon sats.
So we're bullish on that.
We're going to keep pushing.
Hell yeah, man.
Congrats on that.
That's very exciting.
I'm glad you're like representing the rare sats space as well.
Love hearing that.
I see we got JLo and Dante just joined as well.
Cynthia, I know Cynthia, I believe you said you made it to Vegas, no?
How was it?
Good morning, everyone.
I did, in fact, make it to Vegas.
You might be able to hear it on my voice still.
I feel fine, but my voice is still a little bit strained, I guess, from all the talking and everything else, right?
So, yeah, it was absolutely fantastic.
So many great things happened. I met so many people who I've been hanging out with here in
the space for a long time. So it was fantastic. There was one extremely disappointing moment,
I will say though, I showed up to that experts booth, I finally found it. And you know, Mr. E
was there with me as well, actually,
so we both made it there. And there was no sight of Yawn. Not this Yawn, anyway. I did apparently
meet a second Yawn. There was a secondary Yawn. He was excellent. He was really nice. He was great
to talk to. But I did not see this Yawn, as far as I know. This other Yawnwn are you telling me the yawn in person is kind of
like scared to talk shit is that basically what you're saying it really sounded like it because
you know I asked around I asked the booth I asked other yawn to send uh him a message I I went on
the timeline and posted a tweet immediately tagging yawn saying hey where are you I'm here at the
booth let's meet and he liked the tweet, like really quickly.
It was pretty immediate almost, right? Within five, 10 minutes at most, he had liked the tweet,
but then I didn't hear from him and he didn't show up. I got a message. I DMed him as well.
I got a message hours, literally hours later in the DM saying, I'm heading back to the booth now.
And I was already, I was already gone. This
was, I don't know. You know what? Let's, let's check, let's check exactly when it was. It was
8 PM everybody. It was 8 0 7 PM Las Vegas time when Jan replied and said, I am heading back to
the booth now. Where was I at 8 PM? I think that was which day that was Thursday. I was at Meow Wolf at 8 p.m. on Thursday.
So we were long gone, unfortunately. So I never met Jan. And I was very disappointed. I thought
we would take a picture maybe. I thought I could give him some hand-drawn art. And he wasn't there.
What gives Jan? What gives? I have a picture at the booth proving I was there.
But I also spoke to other Jan, who also works for X-Verse.
Crazy, crazy discovery to find there are two Jans at X-Verse.
Unless if other Jan, I mean, he just didn't look the same.
He was lovely.
I cloned myself.
I cloned myself, you know, because there's so much work to do.
What if Jan had a twin?
What if Jan had a twin?
What if Jan had a twin who was, like, eagerly into working out and, like, eating all this stuff?
What if I... I mean, I seem...
That would be good for the world.
That would be good for the world, Leonidas.
Jan, brother, can you confirm that we met?
Because after what Cynthia said, I don't know who I met.
Oh, my gosh.
Tuxedo, maybe it wasn't even this young.
Yeah, we met.
We met Tuxedo.
We met at the gala, you know?
We met at the gala party.
It was you, not the stunt double.
No, it was me, man.
It was me.
Thank God.
Don't worry.
You're so good looking, man.
That's why we make fun of Jan on the show,
because he's like this tall handsome super fit guy
uh i have no issue making fun come up just bully on as much as you guys want to um i tried to do
it in person i was so pumped i was ready i told mystery oh my god we get to we have to find experts
i have to bully on in real life we got to get one of these competitions going and, uh, rugged. I was absolutely rugged,
my friends. This was, I was looking forward to this so much. And, uh, we waited around for a
while too, but like I said, we were there. Let's check the timestamps again, guys. We were there
at, when I messaged him, where is this message here? I have to scroll down so far in my DMs because it was that long ago.
So I messaged him finally at 6 o'clock, and two hours later, he said,
I'm heading back now.
Very disappointed.
Otherwise, it was excellent, right?
Otherwise, it was great.
I spun the wheel on the little X-verse game.
I won some Million Dollar Cat, which is pretty fitting because I always do a lot of cats in my art, right?
So that was great.
People at the booth were wonderful.
Second Yawn, other Yawn, who's really first Yawn in my heart now.
He's the first Yawn in my heart because he was there for me to speak to.
I drew him some art, which I do these little one-of-ones on the back of my stickers.
So you get a sticker and a piece of art.
And Jan wasn't there to receive that gift from my heart, the art from my heart.
And I was very disappointed.
Yeah, I'm very sorry.
And I apologize on behalf of our co-host.
Jan, I tried out a i have a new little fitness wellness thing for you to try i'm curious
what your thoughts are on this um i've had it for like two years but i started doing it some more
um it's called acupressure it's like acupuncture but it's acupressure have you tried this what's that bro like what do you do i i like if it's acupuncture i've tried but
if it's something else that you're doing yourself at home acupuncture but you're not sticking a
needle in you so there's basically like okay it's a little pad there's like a little pillow for your
head and then like a long it's kind of like a padded thing but then there's a little pad there's like a little pillow for your head and then like a long it's
kind of like a padded thing but then there's these little nails sticking up um that you lay on and
they're not actually nails they're like pointy little plastic cones um but basically you can
just buy them on amazon they're like 50 and uh you just lay on it and it put it makes all these
holes in your back, but it's like
basically the same thing as acupuncture.
Um, I don't know, man, you should check it out.
If you're into like, uh, it's kind of weird wellness biohacking stuff.
People are into these.
You should check it out.
And then you got, I haven't tried this one.
I haven't tried this one.
I would like to, I'd like to try anything.
Yeah, try it.
It's really good for like muscles.
It's basically.
Send me, send me a link.
Send me an Amazon link or something.
I'm sure that I can get it in Asia for like one quarter of the price.
Just go to Amazon.
Do you have Amazon in Hong Kong?
Yeah, yeah, there is Amazon, but I can get it from like AliExpress or something for probably one third of the price.
Acupressure. Acupressure is the term. term acupressure because there's like a bunch of different brands
um okay i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna get one and tell me how it goes i'm curious uh your feedback
yeah man i'm doing i'm doing like a like um this therapy this physiotherapy i don't again i don't know how it's
called man there must be a term for that shit but like they have these tools they have these like
like metal tools they put some like oil on you and they go really deep into the muscle with the
tools like it really hurts man like i don't know what's the what's the term for this? I mean, it's a massage, but it's really like a sport kind of massage.
And it's really painful.
And I do this once a week right now because, I don't know,
I just want to see if it's going to be helpful because a bunch of people were telling me that,
yeah, if you exercise a lot and if you work a lot behind your computer, you travel a lot,
obviously you're stiff all the time, even though you stretch stretch i stretch quite a bit at the gym every day but like still
like you know your muscles are pretty pretty stiff and like you know there's like a lot of tension
right and that's why you can have like sometimes like uh like a neck pain and whatever so i started
doing this i've been on it for two weeks and every time i do it i feel great afterwards and so i want to
see like if after like maybe a couple weeks if it's gonna be if it's gonna be like sustained
level of uh kind of relaxation but but yeah i'm trying these things bro like i'm trying everything
i'm trying new things did you guys follow this jamesynn dude over the past week with his trading?
He's kind of like the new crypto.
Is it real?
Is it real or is it some scam again?
I think it's real.
I mean, because here's the deal.
It's not that crazy.
Like, he just took $2 million and just went and did a crazy perp trade.
It's not everybody's acting like you have to be, like, insider to do all this stuff.
No, bro.
I mean, anybody can take two million dollars and just
make a crazy you know leverage trade and just like it's not hard to do it all i mean it's crazy
but yeah i mean he uh he made this crazy trade got up to like almost 100 million
and then got liquidated because bitcoin stopped going up and yeah he's uh he's
basically broke now I saw an hour ago he tweeted a donation address it's got like
a million engagement literally in one hour so how much how much money has
you I'm literally I'm looking at that right now. Okay. Okay. Check it because I saw the tweet.
I saw it this weekend.
I didn't pay too much attention to it because I was traveling from Vegas.
And then I was like kind of at home with my wife, you know, on Sunday, just doing completely different things.
But yeah, like I just saw it.
And I saw this tweet today about fucking send me donations donations and I'm like, what the fuck is this?
Is this guy like gonna launch a meme corner? What is this?
He's got $4,000 of USDC from the tweet. I think
Okay, great. Okay, great. Okay, great. People are not as stupid then. Okay, good.
I'm having faith again into DGENs, you know? Like, that's crazy.
Okay, one million impressions and only $4,000?
And $4,000, bro.
That's good.
I mean, he can make a way.
There's so, if you're going to just, yeah, there's so many more ways he could make money in crypto.
That's like, you know, yeah, it's interesting.
I mean, one million impressions, it's probably, you know, the Twitter payout is going to be like $4,000.
Exactly, bro.
I can think of a thousand different ways that dude could have monetized his account to make $4,000.
Yeah.
The thing is, it's funny.
Like, I mean, there's, you know, people that ask for donations like Ross, you know, it's hard to know if this is real or not because it easily could be money laundering his own Bitcoin. But, you know, Ross went to prison for 10 years and
got out and, you know, he opened a Bitcoin donation address and a couple of days ago,
somebody sent him 300 Bitcoin, which is, you know, equivalent to a little over 30 million dollars.
And I mean, yeah yeah it's very unclear
if it was himself or not we'll probably never know it was sent through a private mixer service but
uh you know there's there's you know there's people that do donations and stuff but
this guy is like why would you fund this guy's degenerate gambling like why would you fund this
guy to just do this like stupid trading
i don't know it's the whole thing's hilarious like that i think he's begging people to buy
bitcoin right now leo he's got another long end i think his liquidation price is like 103
500 something like that and this is all before powell comes on at one o'clock today so
the timing of the long does not seem got an hour and a half and he's gonna lose all his money again
basically is what you're saying.
That's what I'm thinking.
What the hell?
This is ridiculous.
Okay.
Yeah, I mean, look, I'll be honest.
It's entertaining.
It's entertaining.
I wouldn't use the word interesting to describe the James Wynn thing, but it is entertaining.
I'll give it to him.
Okay.
Okay. Anything? Anybody else in j-lo were you in vegas
dead were you no i didn't was dead in vegas no man i don't know after memorial day weekend
and i was laughing at decentralized because he's like oh no one showed up in vegas from the dog
army i'm like bro we're going after the normies we're not even uh we're not just hitting the bitcoin crowd so
after more day weekend i got a family i got a five-year-old we didn't have time for vegas
well so i think i think uh degenitalized is trolling because he he knew that there were a
lot of dog people in vegas posting a lot man he was there man this guy was
there you cannot let this guy's definitely trolling people bro like he trolled poly like
he very successfully trolled polymath in good things um and then he's a legend and he's legendary at trolling he's just trolling guys
like he he's he's taking something where like a community's proud that they showed up strong
at vegas and then he's saying they didn't show up strong just to get hundreds of replies like
that's all he's doing um you know it's like he did the same thing for our bridge to Solana. He made
up that he lost all of his dogs sending it to an Ethereum address or something like,
man, I like it. Should I do more of this man? Like Leo, is this a way to get paid by Twitter
or why do these people do it? It's, it's an engagement activity, but like,
I'm just being completely honest. Like it's not a a way to, like, create an account of influence.
If you want to have, like, people listen to you and have influence, it does not help you at all.
It does give you attention, but it's kind of like, yeah, I don't know.
It doesn't, like, it depends what your goals are on this app, right?
It's like some people want to be an influencer and basically have people
listen to them if you want people to listen to you don't just lie on the timeline i think people
do this all the time like they'll do a copy pasta of a thing i used to do this stuff when i was like
a younger influencer and i just realized like it's actually not that funny because half the people
believe me and now they're just going around thinking I was drained or something. It's like – it's honestly just not –
That's kind of funny.
That is a little funny.
Here's the deal.
They're very entertaining and funny but it's not conducive to like you wanting to have a voice, right?
It just doesn't help you in that regard.
So it's like it's two different goals.
I'm not saying it's bad.
For de-gentralized, it's fine.
He probably doesn't give a shit at all.
He's just fucking around. I don't care. I mean it's bad for degentralized it's fine he probably doesn't give a shit at all he's just fucking around i don't care i mean it's fine it's funny um but i'm just
saying jan bro like if you're like representing a company like it's not conducive to helping xverse
this kind of stuff at all in my opinion um just making stuff up uh but it is man it's funny right
like it's funny because it's it's actually really really interesting how
like we work as humans because like many times like what i've noticed like sometimes even when
you tweet something and you omit something by mistake right and somebody like people really
like to correct people you know and it really like drives the engagement you know it's it's
funny like it has it has happened to me a couple times where like I tweet about something and like I'm not
Intentionally lying or I'm not trying to be incorrect
I just like didn't know for instance and people just jump in right away like no no no it's this, you know
and and so when you actually like take this and
You know you as you said like you're just intentionally creating some narrative so that like people people engage like, you know
Yeah, I understand why people do it because you know people just like to engage with this stuff
you know yeah i had to stop tweeting out my gm to all the i would say like gm to all the ombs
and frogs and ninjas and blah blah and i would say like 30 different ordinals and runes because
because people would be like wow you didn you didn't include me, bro. It never resulted in anyone being happy that I included him.
Nobody responded like, gee, Emilio, thanks for including my collection.
It was always like, fuck you, Leonidas.
I knew you weren't a real leader in the Orinals.
I knew you weren't supporting this community.
And it would be like some random community that never, ever does anything on the timeline,
never pumping their bags, doing nothing.
But they would always show up in that specific tweet because I can tell it.
I kind of get it.
Somebody, you know, sees, OK, there's a bunch of them.
So there's a chance my, you know, random collection with 10 holders got into it.
So then they read it and they read through all 30 things and they don't see it and they
get to the end and they're pissed.
And then they go to the reply.
Fuck you, Leonidas. So i had to cut that shit out it was it was getting pretty
like the reply section in there was like one of the more cutthroat areas of twitter um cynthia what's
up sorry it took me a sec to get to the mic there um i've noticed not like a full on huge pattern, but I've definitely noticed some people
kind of acting that way in general with things where they'll focus sort of on whatever is lacking
versus whatever is actually there. So for example, with support, right? So let's say you put out a
collection or do something and you do get some support. There are people who are, you know, picking up your work or retweeting your stuff or whatever it is.
And some people tend to focus on, oh, well, these people didn't retweet my stuff.
Nobody's supporting me.
People aren't buying my stuff.
And it's, you know, even though there are.
And the thing is, I think that's really detrimental to your
actual community. And I think, like you said, it makes people feel bad where, you know, what about,
what about me? What if I supported you? And all you're talking about is the bunch of people who
haven't supported you. I think you should really focus on whoever it is that has shown you the
support. And that's the thing that'll just build more support over time. But,
you know, focusing on the people who aren't paying attention to you. And that might be for a variety
of reasons. The algo kind of sucks. Not everyone will see your stuff all the time. I've had multiple
people tell me, hey, I didn't know you were doing hand-drawn pieces every single day because it
doesn't show up. And we followed each other for a long time. So it definitely varies what people see based on, you know, so many things with the algorithm even. But you should,
everyone should focus on the things that they actually do have, the support they have, you
know, whatever you have in your life that's positive, versus always thinking about, well,
I have all this stuff, but I'm missing this. I'm missing this one thing, right? It makes a huge
difference. And you should definitely be
showing the people who support you the love and the appreciation versus talking about anyone who's
not even around. Yeah, this follows a general pattern of just like, it's usually rooted in
some level of insecurity. And then it's basically a deflection mechanism, and sort of defense
mechanism, where people will basically not take ownership and responsibility for their own lives and actions.
Right. So, for example, and I see this with tons of artists just in the NFT space, they're great artists.
Their art is amazing, but they suck at sales and business and marketing and they just are horrible at that side of things.
marketing and they just are horrible at that side of things. And they have this expectation
that everyone else is supposed to just magically find and appreciate their art
and lift them up on a pedestal. And they usually have some sort of ego and maybe rightfully so,
they're an incredible artist. But this whole idea of, oh, I get to like, just put my art out there
and not do any of that other side of it. No, that's half the business in art is, is the selling your art and marketing your brand and getting your name out there and
doing podcast interviews and doing all that stuff. So, um, a lot of people and they'll kind of get
angry. Like, why didn't this get appreciated? Like, uh, probably because you sucked at the
marketing side of it. And I'm not saying you have to sell your soul and do like a PFP collection
or something. It's like, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that there are definitely artists who are great
artists, you know, who are also good on the marketing side and you need, you want to do both
and you should respect both. And what ends up happening is it's much easier to not do well
with your art and then be bitter towards the people who are good at marketing their art,
who maybe you're not as good artists as you.
How about you just do both well?
How about, you know, stop being a little complainer.
You're a great artist.
Learn how to do the other skill, which is selling your art.
I mean, have the combo.
Like, that's obviously the answer.
Instead, a lot of people would much rather say, you know, I have no idea how to market things.
And that's fine.
Most people don't naturally know how to market something, but go figure it out. Go watch what other famous artists are doing. It's not, I promise you it's not rocket science. So I think it's like, yeah. And it's,
it comes across as like, you're just, it sounds like you're using your like thing. Why didn't
this one pay attention to me?
It's like, are you not happy for the people that did?
Even if one person in the world decides to take their time and pay attention, that's really cool and means one person really appreciated what you did.
You should appreciate that person back, not view people as a commodity that you need to collect more of and take for granted the ones that you have.
that you need to collect more of and like take for granted the ones that you have.
Like that is not an attitude.
That is not an attitude.
So yeah, pretty much all the successful artists and stuff definitely are not taking that angle
of, I don't know.
I see it with AI too.
Now I see all sorts of people.
There's like two versions of AI.
And this actually is not talking about the artist per se.
I think that's maybe a little more legit, but just like AI is a tool that you can use.
There's people who have certain jobs and have certain angles on the world. And I would imagine there's tons of people
probably listening today with this. And you basically are forced with this choice of like,
okay, I can either embrace this and get better at my job and be more efficient. It's basically like
being given a calculator and you have to do math all day.
You can either use the calculator, you can use the AI as a tool to get better.
Or there's this alternative, which basically half the world seems to be in the mindset of right now,
which is that I hate that this AI thing's happening.
And, you know, this is kind of bullshit.
And, you know, I don't want to do any of this stuff.
And there's all these people who are worse at this job.
They're not real good at this job, but they're using AI.
And that's not real.
I'm still better than that person.
And I don't know. I think just, yeah, embrace the calculator that you were just given.
It's like it's a great tool.
This is not about artists.
I actually think that's kind of a very unique thing. But everything else, embrace the tool you're given. It's like, it's a great tool. Um, this is not about artists. I actually think
that's kind of a very unique thing, but everything else embrace the tool you're given. Like why spend
a bunch of time when you can do it more efficiently. So learn these tools, learn how to do basic
prompting, um, leverage this stuff. I think you're going to find AI as a superpower. I'm just imagining, I know, you know, I'm kind of focused
on dog a lot, but I think dog, the dog army without being good at AI, dog wouldn't be
propagated as much as it is. It's a very powerful tool and the people who are going to succeed in
the coming years are going to be able to use that tool. So yeah, definitely don't be like the weird person saying, I refuse
to use email or I refuse to use, you know, a calculator. You definitely like, if your goal is
to, you know, integrate with society and continue to move along with human civilization, you
definitely don't want to be the anti AI person. And there's just, it's a shocking amount of people
that are this anti AI thing. And I mean, I think they actually make some good points.
The difference is there's nothing we can do about it.
We're on a path towards AI, and you should definitely use these tools.
And if you don't use them, you're just going to be really inefficient at doing the work that you used to do.
And think of it as having an extra hand to do more work or something. Like it's just a
tool that helps you do the same thing, but quicker and more efficiently so that you can get more
done. And basically what's going to happen here is the average human output is going to increase
dramatically on earth. And we're going to have a, we're going to increase earth's GDP by 10X.
And there's going to be way less people that are in poverty and this sort of stuff, at least theoretically.
So yeah, it's going to be a transformative technology. And I definitely think, you know,
embracing it is healthier than being very, very cynical about it. Um, especially when it's going
to happen no matter what. And at the end of the day, it's literally just a calculator. It's like,
it's like making your whole life angry that somebody invented a calculator. And now, you know,
you don't have to write it all on paper all day long. Well, I mean, I think it's a great thing
that we have the calculator and you don't have to sit all day and write it on paper. So,
you know, it's, it's a mindset guys, be, be, be positive and like, that's the takeaway from my
little speech there. Like, don't be the Debbiebie downer don't be negative just take the positive path and if you really do not like something get rid of it
from your mind and just ignore it don't think about it and hate it all the time uh go ahead dog father
yeah i can just um fully fully support that i once have the the pleasure to see people talking in front of 1,000 people
and creating an everyday life.
I mean, he's such a great entertainer,
and everyone was kind of included in this artwork,
and this was in this one two years ago, so this was really fun.
I mean, he's definitely one of the outstanding,
not just artists, but also marketing legends.
I just want to think because you asked about some stats and I was like, I don't have one.
But then it was like, yeah, there was something happening last week.
So this loud or stale audio project was popping on the timeline.
Probably you've seen that a bit here and there.
And they dropped the token this weekend.
And it was basically an almost free, I would say, airdrop.
I mean, not airdrop, but a claim.
It was very, very cheap.
And what happened, I mean, 5,000 people could claim
and the token basically is in the free fall.
And just check the numbers.
There's a nice June dashboard out there.
And 70% of the supply was immediately dumped by these 5,000 people.
And only 154 out of 5,000 bought more.
So this is...
It's not...
Everyone is saying like,
yeah, stock is easy.
It was an airdrop and everything. No, it's not easy you know, everyone is saying like, yeah, it's stock is easy. It was an airdrop and everything.
No, it's not easy because if the stuff is not interesting, people sell it.
So just, you know, appreciate that this is really something special and you can give
people something for almost free, create the biggest hype campaign on, on crypto Twitter
and still people dump everything.
So appreciate it.
And looking forward to the
creating listening yeah look it's interesting i did watch that as well and uh i think that whole
the whole audio thing it's an interesting model and i i would like to see it but done with a project
that's like more legit like or like it could have been a meme coin animal or something that could like
potentially have a community for a long time i don't see like a token called loud it doesn't
mean anything to me what is it why would i want to hold it it just sounds like a scam like why
would i hold a random token called loud it just doesn't make sense so um like the whole event was
the drop and there's nothing after the drop so then then why would you hold it? So I want to see that same experiment run, but with, you know, a dog meme coin or something, something more interesting like that.
The issue that model has, though, which I do think is like.
Yeah, it's interesting.
It's like basically the farming model versus the organic model.
basically the farming model versus the organic model. I very much prefer the organic model where
you retroactively look back at your, you know, most supportive people who were supporting it
for the reason that they actually already liked the thing. If you just attract farmers, you're
just, you are going to attract volume and you're going to get the, you know, the big Ethereum
space people that now just, they don't talk about Ethereum Twitter spaces anymore.
Now they just focus on the cook of the week, Monad, Barrett chain, blah, blah, blah.
Those people, those people will all come and do your farm for a week.
But they're just going to move to the next thing.
And there's really no value, real value creation there.
And very, very few percent of them are actually sticking around.
So I think you're faced with the, you know, difficult decision,
difficult situation there because people are not actually believing in the thing. So I'll give
examples of tokens that did really, really great. They did not announce that they were doing an
airdrop and they retroactively did this airdrop to the people who actually loved and used the
products. So I think a great example of this is Uniswap. A great example
of this is Hyperliquid. I think Dog is a good example of this. These are three of the top 10
largest airdrops in history, right? And all of these airdrops, and I'm not going to start
funding companies right now, but yeah, I'm not going to start funding companies right now.
If you just do a massive farming campaign, you're just attracting
the worst of the worst. When I say the worst of the worst, I don't know. We all farm these things.
Literally everyone farms them. I'm trying to farm them. It's not a big deal. I'm not saying you're
a terrible person. I'm saying that's not the user that you want. What you want to do is reward
somebody who actually likes and uses your product, not one of these people that is on a show that's telling them just keep clicking, just keep clicking.
That's not what you want.
So I think it suffers from that.
And I think the loudest thing, the last thing I'll say on this, it has one final issue, which is that you're only going to get people to tweet about it who are okay selling their
reputation for like one or two thousand dollars and you know basically no major influencers are
going to do that really i think it's hard i think it's hard to get you know some bigger
names on board when it's like look they are are getting offers to do a tweet for way more than that.
Like them throwing their way behind a project is worth billions of dollars.
They don't want just a few thousand dollars kind of thing.
And I know it was like kind of skewed where some of the top people made more money.
But yeah, in general, I think like I'll be completely honest.
I saw everybody tweeting about this thing.
And my basic thought was, you know,
this is people basically just doing a paid promotion. It's a, it's a paid promotion in
a different form, basically. Um, what I do like is the hyper liquid airdrop model, the Uniswap
model, the dog model, where you just do a massive airdrop to people. And I do think like just
staying organic and authentic, you're going to get real people in a real community.
You could run the same experiment as an influencer, you know, use the Kaido metrics and everything for the airdrop, but don't tell people about that until after the airdrops happened.
You'd have an extremely successful token if that's how some of these Solana meme coins were launching.
But when you tell people to just go farm it on the timeline, you don't end up getting
the people that you want as your holders.
And that's just a fundamental problem with that design, I would say.
Spirit, what's up?
Yeah, really quick.
I just wanted to ask you, well, one, I love your calculator example. When it comes to mind shift and
adopting, you know, adopting one's mind, basically growing with the times. That was awesome.
Anyways, do you have anything, and you may not be able to answer this, but do you have anything
in mind yourself, like regarding the dog token, like as far as aligning it or maybe like incorporating it with a, you know,
a logical or, you know, a tool or something that makes sense,
like an AI or something within the space?
Do you have your eye on anything that you feel would be, um, you know,
potentially a good collaboration or, or, or a good, um, trajectory? Yeah, it's interesting. Like
dog is just, it's literally a, it's a ticker and an image, right? It's, it's just a memetic meme.
It's like literally nothing else. And then people can come along and build around it if they want
to. And somebody came
along and built a dog strategy Twitter account, which basically is an AI bot that tweets about
dog all day. That's the closest thing that I've really seen. Additionally, there's a lot of people
leveraging AI to create their content. So this started out about probably nine months ago,
I started seeing lots of dog posts that had just AI generated images of dog. And a lot of them
weren't that good. Since then, they've gotten much better. The quality's gotten much better.
And then I would say like, you know, lots and lots of people know how to do that and are
successfully doing that. Then basically six months ago, little short videos started appearing of dog
AI generated. And then in the last three months, there's actual little short videos started appearing of dog, um, AI generated. And then in the last three months,
there's actual little short two minute movie animated movies with audio and telling a story.
So that whole trajectory is just accelerating super fast from basically nine months ago,
nothing to now photos, videos, and now little movies and trailers and stories being told.
I think that will definitely continue.
I think the dog army and other runes and meme coins and crypto people are like early adopters.
So they're kind of early onto this.
And they're using AI as a method to propagate their memes and their culture.
And I think that's going to only continue.
I think, I think, I'm sorry.
Maybe I need to better clarify my question.
My question is, yeah, I'm well aware thoughts in or, you know, are you giving any consideration to attaching the token as a payment rail to one of these technologies, right?
Like, so basically, I have an AI tool that might take, that might generate 3D models, right? And maybe I token
gate that and I want to use dog as, I want to open up, right? I want to do a collaboration
that opens up a utility to dog holders or whatever, but in whatever that looks like,
but that's what I'm asking. Yeah, that's interesting. This is where you basically
need this infrastructure
layer, which I do think the blockchain is going to be very helpful for, for AIs and these systems
to kind of automatically work. So I think Coinbase released this, I forget the term for it, but they
released this thing about two or three weeks ago, which was a standard for, you know, say you go to
the Wall Street Journal and you want to view a newspaper article that they wrote, right? And you get this wall that says, hey, you can't read this. Well,
you have to pay $0.99 or $2 a month to read it. You have to like go sign up, type in your credit
card, do all this stuff. They basically created a standard where you would just click a button and it pay with your crypto wallet.
And actually, if we do that, if we rewrite a bunch of this stuff on the internet for this
payment stuff to that, that actually means that AI agents can pay through that. So as an AI agent,
instead of just hitting these walls where you can't do much, you would actually just
programmatically start paying money to move around the internet. I do think that most of the internet will move to this model where it'll be paying to access content,
paying to move around the internet.
And yeah, you'll have to pay little fees in different sites.
If you want your email to go through, you have to send 50 cents worth of Bitcoin, this sort of stuff.
I definitely think this is going to happen.
And I think that little programmatic payment system solves spam on the internet
and creates just great business model incentives and stuff. And that's going to happen. And I think that little programmatic payment system solves spam on the internet and creates just great business model incentives and stuff.
And that's going to happen.
As far as working with like a Rune token on Bitcoin, I think today all you really need is an API that tells you here is the balances of all dog holders.
And then you have your API to hook into as a builder
um and that does exist so you know you could definitely do that
cool does anyone know how the presence was with dog at vegas like oh by the way what up everyone
what's good my bad um like do people know what dog is or like you know is that where people take pictures
in front of it so i i think there was a lot there was a lot of people in vegas i think it was like
over 50 000 people and i think the vast majority did not know what dog was it is it is primarily
a just a bitcoin event a lot of just bitcoin people who are not in the crypto twitter kind
of stuff like us that said i do think you think, you know, Dog had a prominent booth.
And I think, you know,
thousands of people definitely walked by it
and checked it out.
And I think Vito and J-Dog and Wendy
and a couple other guys were giving away
just like tons and tons and tons of stuff.
I think they gave away over a thousand
little pamphlets about Dog and little gifts.
You could spin a little spinner and win stuff.
So the dog was very visible because of, I think,
the inflatable specifically made that the case.
But yeah, I think like, you know, in general,
it is the Bitcoin conference.
And I think the vast majority of people
probably don't know about anything really in crypto as much,
probably mostly Bitcoin and Ethereum. And like, I think it was a bunch of big, I don't know about anything really in crypto as much probably mostly bitcoin
and ethereum and like i think it was a bunch of big i don't know i didn't go but i think it was
like a lot of fans of bitcoin and then you know we're the ordinals and runes are still definitely
minority at the bitcoin conference right there's a few thousand of us but the other 48 000
are just bitcoiners yeah i mean the main thing is the brand.
So, like, I mean, I've been around a very long time,
and the way Doge worked was it was always just kind of like,
like you said, a meme, and it had a meme brand.
Like, nobody owned it.
We just kind of knew about it.
So, like, I know that Bitcoiners have seen the dog before,
and it's orange, so it's like the mascot of Bitcoin.
So, like, there's a there's
room there to to add like almost like a face for bitcoin which i think dog is pretty good like with
like a curveball off of doge because i mean nobody uses really doge for anything i mean it trades
a good amount but it if you price it with bitcoin's graph, if you price Doge in Bitcoin, it's an absurd store of value.
So I feel like
DAWG should really take on
Doge's role,
like what Doge was.
It's there.
I just don't know how.
Yeah, J-Lo.
I could speak a little bit on,
because obviously I was there at the Bitcoin conference
there with Vito.
Yo, what's up everyone on stage?
Leon, it's John.
Jan, pleasure to meet you, Jan.
Yeah, man, it was great to meet you.
So it was a great experience.
I'll just say it was one of the greatest onboarding things we could have done for Dog.
A lot of people just aren't aware of what we're doing here.
And yeah, narratives play a huge role. I think that was one
thing I made clear to like, yeah, we're the dog of Bitcoin. We're here to flip doze. We're here
to bring, we believe the top meme coins should live on the Bitcoin blockchain. Those were kind
of some of the examples of the narratives that we were telling people. And most people just didn't
know that there were meme coins on top of Bitcoin. And they would ask like, oh, you mean like layer
two or something? Like, no, we're talking about layer one Bitcoin. We're on layer one Bitcoin. And that would
just amaze people. They're like, we didn't even know this even exists.
So these onboarding events, as far as like these live events, are so extremely valuable. So shout
out to Vito that made this possible. And I 100% agree with you. The branding is so important.
And the narratives that leonitis
has created and that the dog army pushes is exactly what we need in order to onboard the
next millions of users to bitcoin because people resonated with it extremely well it was it was such
a huge onboarding event it was amazing i mean it is it's on layer one but it's i feel like there's
got to be a better way to like a better like when you watch
a 3d movie you can't watch it without the glasses right so uh runes you can't see without a certain
uh glasses uh for like to see through the blockchain so like yeah it's it's on layer one
but you can't really see it with a wallet with like a regular bitcoin wallet so that's why like
you need us you need um like i
don't know but people just need to like understand that a little more
no for sure there's there's definitely an education gap and i think that also comes with the
oh sorry guys i've just i've been rugging i've been rugging can I've been rugging. Can you guys hear me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, hang on, hang on.
I thought we were boring.
Yeah, you got an echo.
I had to go to my computer.
I thought we were boring.
Is everyone kicked from the stage, Jan?
Is it just us?
The space is rug massively from me.
My ex-app was kept closing in and out.
Can you hear it?
Got it on my computer so that it wouldn't disconnect.
Can you hear it?
I'm not going to close on my computer.
No, no, no.
Oh, I'm going to end the space.
All right.
I'm going to – how do I disconnect on the computer? Huh? That's interesting. All right. This is no, no. I'm going to end the space. How do I disconnect on the computer?
That's interesting.
This is an interesting dilemma.
I'm not sure how to do this.
I'm on the computer.
I can't end the space.
I don't think Leonize can hear us.
I'm going to just exit the tab.
Okay.
Then I'm going to get Fiat up here.
Can you guys hear me?
Can you guys hear me? Can you guys hear me?
I can hear you, Yon.
I can hear you guys.
Oh, wow.
We might have issues.
Man, I mean, Leo, I can hear you.
Nobody on stage except Yon.
Yeah, nobody else can hear you.
It was really weird.
My Twitter app just completely closed.
I would open it.
It would open for one second.
I joined the space and it would crash.
So I updated Twitter.
Yeah, nobody's joining right now.
This is not good.
I see nobody on stage.
Is anyone on stage right now?
I'm on stage.
I'm right here.
Yes, sir.
I'm on stage.
Can you read?
Mayday, mayday, mayday.
If you can hear me, give a thumbs up.
Yes, can you hear me?
No, we can hear you.
I hear you, Cynthia and J-Dog.
Okay, shit.
Can you hear me?
I think perfect.
Okay, if you guys are on stage with each other, give a heart.
If you're on stage, give a heart, J-Dog.
Oh, shit.
So I don't see any of you guys on stage and I can't hear anything.
Here's the problem.
If I wasn't host, I would just leave and come back, but I'm host.
Fuck. Okay, here's what I'm going to do. You can still leave and come back but I'm host okay here's what I'm gonna do I'm gonna even come back I'm gonna stop on the app I'm gonna stop on the app and then I'm gonna do it on the desktop and then I'm gonna if that doesn't work I'm gonna
get off wi-fi and go to cellular so hold tight hold tight you have about 30 seconds to leave
and come back even if you're host that so funny. It's so funny that it actually
doesn't rock. What's up, guys?
Can you hear me? Oh, man.
Yeah, we definitely can.
Holy...
Yes.
Can you hear us?
Can you hear us is the question.
Yeah, I can hear you guys.
Okay, perfect. Yeah.
I think we're back.
I'm going to get rid of my phone.
Okay.
All right.
Man, how is it possible that this shit didn't rack when you were changing from Google to computer?
Elon has built X to be a machine.
Yeah, you can.
Jan, you have 60 seconds.
Like, when you see the host i never i never have
60 second notification i just rack immediately
look i feel like kind of rude because it interrupted uh i know jdog has given a i really
wanted to hear what jdog had to say too but jdog continue whatever you were saying man
obviously i didn't hear anything but continue yourself yeah yeah um i kind of uh j-lo what was the uh the question prior to oh you said we were
talking about the yeah yeah yeah i mean at the end of the day it all it all comes down to education
and i think that that gap will be filled i did notice i try to get someone on board at expert
so the good thing is that we we have the booth right close to x first so we would be able to send people back and forth through
between the booths which worked out perfectly um and there was some issues with someone trying to
like buy they try to swap for bitcoin for dog and they were having trouble and then i had to go on
a magic eden and i had to show him the lots and that i don't know if that kind of like he was
able to buy it but i don't know if that experience may have deterred him away from runes or you know it's kind of
it's different it's definitely different from like other other assets so I think that also will be
kind of solved with new liquidity coming in new new builders create solving these issues because
I think people are very aware that these are issues, but I just believe that the technology is going to develop. And this conversation has been going on like, oh,
runes, like it's a failed protocol. And it's not a failed protocol. It's built on Bitcoin layer one.
So it has different attributes. It has different properties. And that doesn't necessarily make it
bad. It's just different to work with. And I think that technology just needs to be built
out. And people will do that because Bitcoin is such a large asset. It's a $2.1 trillion asset.
People will continue to build and make it work at the end of the day. But yeah, I saw Vincent's
had that. Maybe he has something to add in here. I mean, shout out to J-Dog and Vito,
especially J-Dog for just speaking with everybody like person to person, their presence was very well known.
And I will have to say from my experience in Vegas,
going to different events to being at surrounding,
I guess you could say after parties,
it was ruins were the main conversation,
even at Ornol based events.
And that's something that I think people can't really
ignore. Dog was the main focus. I was actually kind of shocked because usually these types of
things, you don't know how they're going to show up, especially the reaction from people, especially
when you spend all your time on Web3. And then all of a sudden you just start meeting a ton of
people in real life. And then they start talking about dog or meeting a ton of people in real life and then they start
talking about dog or have a sticker of dog have dog apparel it was it was interesting and i have
to say like i i was completely shocked and if if there is anything going on online where people
say like runes are you know the runes runes UX is terrible or like runes are dead
or runes are a failure.
I just want to remind everybody that the people
that are saying that, like they don't have to say that.
Like if they are really irrelevant, then let them die.
You can talk about something else.
Talk about something else that you love.
But the reason people FUD runes online on Web3
behind a computer or on their phone is because they need that attention for themselves. They
don't want to be forgotten. They want to stay in topic of a conversation that is still a topic of
discussion. If runes were a failure, then let them fail. But the thing is, I think people criticize
it because it's still so relevant today that people want to use it. So people want to either improve it, but they just don't know how to express it.
So, you know, sometimes it could sound like complete ignorance.
It could sound kind of egotistical.
I would say ignore those little voices, no matter how large of a following that they do have.
Because honestly, like just based on what I'm seeing, the UX problem is not the problem.
It's the people that try to talk down about a protocol
that is nonstop. It's already happening right now where you're seeing more builders build
the infrastructure to provide more liquidity in ruins if it's an exchange, if it's a swap,
if it's a loan. I mean, like, I keep seeing new announcements every single day, I feel, of, like, people building for specifically Dog.
So this will pave the way of not just for Dog, for, like, say, for instance, Kraken going to list it,
but the fact that you see Kraken building infrastructure for Ruins is such a good thing for pups, billion-dollar cat,
so for someone, MIM token, like, I can't wait for these communities to start growing.
That's why I've been telling people, you've got to start looking into these smaller communities if you believe in it and you believe
in that community and what they stand for because soon they're not going to be in the tens of
millions or 50 millions they're going to be over hundreds of millions pretty quick it's just a
matter of time so whatever people take away from after this event is that people are
talking about runes. And yes, there are people like a lot of Bitcoin Maxis focusing on Bitcoin.
But yeah, this is it's a very exciting time. Definitely don't fade it and just do your
research. But yeah, runes were the discussion. Sorry, Yana, wasn't able to meet you in real life.
discussion sorry yana wasn't able to meet you in real life yeah the event was definitely a big
confirmation for myself at least that yeah we aren't going anywhere and this thing is real and
this has come to life like dog dog is now in the zeitgeist it is real it's an idea that cannot be
stopped at this point and i don't know, again, at the end of the day,
nothing has really changed because this is Bitcoin. This is a $2.1 trillion asset that
has so much liquidity that wants to be unlocked. And we have Bitcoin, DeFi is growing. Runes are
going to be a pivotal part of that. So it was just great to see that how many dog holders how many people were at least experienced
the airdrop and they even told me they sold some dog and I told him like you got to get back in
now so even a lot of people just came to the booth because they received the runestone airdrop a lot
of people hold obviously the dead the dog but yeah it's just a huge confirmation that yeah what we're doing here is not is not going to be stopped yeah look the fun thing's kind of silly like ruins have been massively flooded since day one
i think anytime it's like a huge opportunity and you know we are kind of threatening to other
chains and stuff and kind of their ecosystems i think you know there's always going to be some
competition there crypto is zero sum to some degree.
But in general, I would say runes are like, you know, it's like runes are big enough where
some people fighting it doesn't really have any actual effect.
It doesn't actually hurt runes.
And I like, I kind of just view it as like, it's more attention for us.
The person fighting, I think in a lot of cases is literally just fighting for attention.
It's a great way to get attention.
And then, and I'm not even sure they actually believe what they're saying.
I think it's mostly an attention thing, but then also it drives us attention.
So when I see foot, I don't get like mad when I see foot, I'm like, you know, Gaines, he's
talking about runes again, you know, great. You know, more people are hearing about runes again like you know gainsy's talking about runes again you know great you know more people
are hearing about runes again you know so i don't get mad about any of the fun release stuff i think
some of it's like kind of stupid and disingenuous and just farming but i don't take any of it super
seriously and then there are people i think i'd put it into like two camps there's the
fun where they're just genuinely had a bad experience with runes and they wished it was good but it wasn't and they left or they sold their
runes those people I actually think you should definitely listen to because they're giving us
great feedback and these are the things we need to work on but then there's a whole another group
of people where like if runes succeeded they would be angry so it's like it's not that they
hate runes or don't like the UX it's that they just want to see runes fail, they would be angry. So it's like, it's not that they hate runes or don't like the UX.
It's that they just want to see runes fail.
And their mechanism for like conveying that
is fighting us with some specific thing.
But it's not the specific thing they're angry about.
They just want to see runes fail.
So those are the two camps.
Don't listen to the people who are disingenuous
and just want to see runes fail.
Their opinions are worthless.
They would say anything for attention
and for runes to fail verse everyone else you know a lot of people just organically you know
people i respect in the sauna ethereum ecosystems uh you know maybe bought runes a bunch last summer
and then had a bad experience and then haven't come back since and that i you know you take those
opinions seriously we take that feedback seriously that's actually not what's happening right now what's actually happening
right now is you know the top room is up 5x in the past seven weeks many of the other ruins are up
two or three x in the past seven weeks you've got those people from ethereum and solana coming and
trying out dot swap through experts for example or buying a bridge route on solana
and they're having a much better experience than they did a year ago and i'm actually hearing good
feedback from those people it's literally just the engagement farming kind of stuff it's
disingenuous and don't actually want to see runes succeed that's all the fud is right now and i
actually love that kind of fun because it's the kind of fun where you can like make fun of it
and uh you know we get to win in the end so i'm uh i'm totally fine with that kind of fun it just gives us attention
are people able to hear me yeah you're good i can hear you bro okay good good good
okay uh sweet but yeah jayla hopefully that answers your question jdog was there like he Yeah, you good? I can hear you, bro. Okay, good, good, good. Okay, sweet.
But yeah, JLo, hopefully that answers your question.
J-Dog was there.
He was on a dog onboarding machine in Vegas
with Vito and Wendy and stuff.
So shout out, J-Dog.
No, man, people absolutely loved it.
People loved it.
People loved the idea.
People just need to learn of what's actually happening.
People don't know what's happening on Bitcoin and i don't know i think these events are
super valuable we already we're already talking about uh 2026 what we can do better and we we
onboarded some some dog soldiers that are now extremely active on on on twitter because they
seen like the community in real life and i don't know i brought the community really close together
for the people that were able to meet in person. So it was just an overall great experience,
great experience for Dog, and I'm excited for the next one.
How many people spun that little wheel, would you say? Because that's a good metric for me,
if people who like-
Oh yeah, too many, too many. We had to slow it down because we're giving out too much stuff.
But we gave out so many prizes, so many shirts, we gave out plushies. Yeah, it was great.
I mean, would you say like over a thousand items were given out?
Because I know it was 68 plushies, and that was like the highest value thing on the spinner.
So if that was like one twentieth of the spinner, then you guys gave out a ton of stuff basically, right?
Yeah, I would say we gave out at least 75 items of merch.
Actually, probably way more than that.
Yeah, over a couple hundred.
I gave out little runestone pins that I had
because I used to make runestone merch back in the day
when I first got onboarded.
So I had a lot of free stuff to give out.
So I just donated a lot of my own stuff that I created.
And yeah, people that came up,
they said they got the runestone airdrops.
I was able to give him
some merch so it was great man we gave out so much free stuff and again shout out to Vito because a
lot of this stuff comes out of out of pocket for him but he really believes in like what we're doing
here and yeah that booth was amazing like it was a huge value add to be able to get the booth and
talk to people in person so it's definitely worth doing for sure. Who made those animated videos?
Leonidas, because those are really good.
Like the one with the Binance dog.
We should make one.
Yeah, Dog Social Club.
Dog Social Club.
Oh, is that what it was?
Dog Social Club.
Well, so there's about four different accounts that have been, like the OG General.
I don't know if he's doing it or someone else's, but he's been releasing these little animated shorts.
There's a couple accounts doing this.
Dog Social Club is probably the top one.
They seem to basically be, I talked to them briefly yesterday.
I think they're like spending a lot of time every day just like editing and creating these videos.
And they've now put it into a live stream that's going on right now you can click the pin link above i think and it's just
replaying these clips over and over and over and there's a youtube channel now they're creating
like lo-fi beats and all sorts of stuff with dog through ai and it's incredible i mean i don't like
i don't even understand how exactly it's happening, but I think it's a combination of like AI generation
for like a scene for a little shot
and then stitching it all together
and editing it with audio and stuff.
And then you end up with this little story.
Wow, this is pretty wild.
I'm watching it now.
Yeah, are you watching the broadcast?
Yeah, pretty wild.
Like you can literally watch it for an hour and not see repeated content
which is crazy it's really crazy we're headed i can tell we're heading into a world with just
an absolute abundance of content like you there will be infinite content for like if you want to just watch videos of you know somebody i don't know like have an ai
create videos of some random thing that's like niche just to you you can just watch videos of
that forever and movies of that like we're gonna have infinite content i think
all right it is it is crazy the timing the timing of ai and the drop of dog i think was just
extremely perfect yeah for the cco license for people to just go out and make content for dog
yeah it's been a big help to actually get dog out there i know i was using it a lot in the beginning
like making ai contact now there's now everyone's just doing it.
And yeah, no, the art, the art out there.
Oh, like the little Kraken, like the dog and the Kraken character have been so good together.
It looks so cute.
Well, yeah, the Kraken marketing team is using AI to merge with dog to create content.
Like that would have been really, really hard to do a year or two ago.
You know, like it just didn't, it wasn't a thing you would have to like hire an artist
to make it happen. And it would just be like, the intern's probably not going to do that.
The marketing person's probably not going to do that. Now they're, you know, I don't
know. You got it like, yeah, if you're in crypto and you're marketing your project,
you definitely need to be leveraging AI. Yeah. And I know you've got your experts team, your
experts marketing team,
kind of getting into AI stuff.
Any like updates from them, anything interesting?
Because I think a lot of people can learn from this
because everybody here has, you know,
goals of furthering a message on Twitter
about certain projects.
Yeah, man, I mean, I'm a big fan of AI, guys.
Like I'm using it every day.
You know, I just actually actually as we are having the show
I had somebody send me some contract and with some comments from lawyers and I'm just like using AI
trying to understand this shit and it's so easy like back in the days I would be like what the
does this even mean what do you mean by this term and I can just ask grok you know to explain this stuff to me so
i really think that this is a game changer we are you know using it to some extent you know
obviously the design and branding people they don't really like it right because it kind of
doesn't really necessarily follow the guidelines every single time so we have to be kind of like a little bit.
And stuff like, you know, the dog and Kraken and like, you know, changing the hoodie and the color.
Like, I think for this stuff, like AI is amazing.
Like it can really, you know, just with one prompt, you can, you can generate countless of different variations. And I think it's amazing for communities like
Doc. And yeah, man, it's crazy. Since we're on this topic of AI, I don't know if you guys
are paying attention to this, but obviously I'm a fanboy of Tesla. And supposedly they're
coming up with or coming out with the robot taxi in the US.
Like, you know, that you're not, you're going to be able to just get like driverless car,
you know, to drop you off somewhere.
And I think this, if this happens and if it's successful, that's going to be a game changer,
guys.
Like, you know, I think that's going to be crazy.
Yeah, we're like the self-driving.
I don't know how it is in hong kong and china and
asia and stuff yon but um you guys may be a little ahead of us but i do know that you know google
has been expanding very rapidly like their their self-driving product has kind of achieved product
market fit like it works and they're just trying to scale the tech there's a race going on basically
right now between google and tes Tesla and a few other.
Man, have you actually tried FSD, bro?
That's like FSD.
Have you tried it?
I was in a Tesla where I was like in the driver's seat with it on.
And dude, I had a bad experience.
So I had, I think I misused it.
I think I misused it.
This was like a year ago when it kind of just was a little more reset.
Yeah, then try it again. So I have it. misused it. This was like a year ago when it kind of just was a little more recent. Yeah.
Then try it again.
So I have it.
I use it.
I think in Asia, unfortunately, we are behind.
So we're not on the latest version.
You know, you guys in the US, you guys have the latest versions.
And, you know, all the I see some people even have like the beta versions where they get unreleased versions with all the newest updates, which we cannot get here due to regulations.
So it's much harder.
The Asian companies, or even in China, I see it all the time.
These companies approach this autonomy very differently, kind of similar to waymo but i've tried a lot of these things myself and like
it's pretty i wouldn't say it's bad but like you know it's it's definitely limited in many aspects
uh doesn't really mean that like you have more sensors than it performs better and i'm just
blown away by by fsd every day you know like it's it's awesome you know and your car yeah yeah i have tesla i
have this little motor y and like that's the thing you actually do you don't drive as much
i i don't drive almost at all because i'm lazy so you hang on stop stop stop let's say you need
to go to the grocery store okay you go you hop in your tesla you start the engine and then what happens
yeah i mean i just uh you know i just turn on fsd and it just drives you from a to b
so you're actually using that shit heavily yes i'm using it every day bro and that's why i'm
telling you like you have to try it again it perfect, bro. Like I would never say that you can just like sleep
and not pay attention.
It's not perfect.
The problems that it has, especially in Asia,
and I think in the US it's probably solved already,
but in Asia it has sometimes issues
recognizing specific signs that are like China specific
or Asia specific, or sometimes like, you know,
it will not
really follow the map like a hundred percent. So it's, it's not dangerous because it's still
obviously follows the rules, but it will just like drive you around instead of like turning
this block that you want to turn, it will turn like two blocks later and stuff like that. So
like there are things that like, you know, you have to pay attention to if you're really trying, you know, to get somewhere. And like, I don't know if you're in
a rush or whatever, like you have to pay attention to it. But like, in terms of safety, like, man,
it's, I don't know, it's, it's, it's almost there. And that's why I'm just like, so bullish on
what's going to happen in the US, because I think you guys are much further ahead, you know, when it comes to the tech in the U.S. and the regulation.
So when I see these things, they look slow.
That's like my critique.
Like if I like, I like, yes, of course, you know, I take pride and, you know, somebody, something's 13 minutes away.
I'll get there in eight minutes kind of thing.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it's my it's slower i would say
it's like 25 slower uh in general because it doesn't necessarily always fix the best best route
and you know it is kind of a gentleman car so you know what happens to you in the traffic is like
if somebody is not really following the rules if they like want to sneak in in front of you,
Tesla will always do.
Hang on, if I'm flying past everyone in the lane
that everybody's supposed to merge,
I just need to get in front of a Tesla
is what you're telling me.
Yeah, if you're on FSD
and if you try to merge in front of me
and you'll be very aggressive,
obviously Tesla will stop.
Like, you know, it will not just like keep going
and like try to fight with you, right? It will yield to you know it will it will not just like keep going and like
try to fight with you right it will yield to you even pedestrians right like if you're like going
somewhere and there's a lot of people crossing and let's say there is not a traffic light or the
pedestrian light so that they stop if if they can just keep coming like this level just wait for
them you know it's just like you know because it's safety first right
so you have your hand on the wheel you could just in half a second start driving right
of course yeah if you want to take over like you can take over immediately but i'm trying to
understand like is that like a thing i only take over in couple situations and that's like yes the reason is like sometimes it chooses
the wrong wrong route and i'm just like i don't want to waste another 10 minutes going around i
will just take over and choose the right route uh so that's one um then like again it sometimes
still has issues so it doesn't recognize certain sign or maybe like a U-turn, the red light, you know, it doesn't know what to do.
So like I will just like take over, you know, because I don't want to like, you know, get a fine or something.
It would never like if there is a car, it will always stop.
So it's not dangerous, but like you may just get a fine, you know, because it doesn't follow the rules like 100% in the territory that I'm in, which could be just like because they don't have enough data, they haven't trained it well.
But like I have no, I've never had a situation where I would feel it put me in danger.
You know, it's just like it's just uncomfortable, you know, and and sometimes I'm just worried that I'm'm gonna get a fine if it does this if it crosses
the solid line where it shouldn't or stuff like that but it would never put me in danger you know
yeah so when i did it i was on the highway and i was in the i was it was supposed to get off
it didn't break on the ramp so it just went into the ramp at like 80 or like 70 which is kind of
crazy i think it was maybe.
That's interesting. Yeah.
Maybe, maybe it's a year ago.
Maybe, maybe that's definitely, you know, I would say again, I didn't use it a year
ago, so I don't know if the software.
Man, I have had it for like three months now, I think.
And, uh, I am on the latest version that's available here, but it's a different version
to what you guys have in the U S I think you, you guys are two versions ahead of anything that is available in Asia.
Right now.
But you got to be with Tesla.
And so I got the previous Moto Y, so I don't have the newest one.
I got the previous one.
Okay, very cool.
And you've had it for basically three months though?
Yeah, FSD, i had a three months i i bought
it i bought it whenever like they allowed it here because it's recent like it's really like three
months they allowed it here only in certain countries and you know to have that like what's
the subscription oh i i bought it in in one go bro. I bought it for 8KUSD, man. Wow.
Okay, I heard.
Man, because I love this shit, right?
Like, you know, to me, it's like, obviously it's convenience and like, you know, it's
like, I think it's cool, but like, man, I did it for another reason and that's really,
I want to be kind of at the forefront of AI, right?
And I think, you know, you can really truly understand where ai is going if you use it every
it's all same these like ai whatever because you know like otherwise you're just hearing stories
they will tell you a story oh it didn't do this well and it was some issue there and then you
kind of feel oh
it's dangerous or i had a friend that used to work at tesla he's like a genius you know like he's
he's really somebody that i truly respect because he's a self-taught engineer and he got hired by
tesla without having any degree and he joined there and he was working on like the ai stuff
but like then he left the company and he was like shitting on the company he was like oh this will never work like the approach that they have it's not right and
like blah blah blah and then like it just turns out to be wrong like all of these things turn out
to be wrong and so i i really think that like the only way you can make the right investment decisions
and things like understanding where things are going in the next like two to three years
you have to be using these things like every single day and so like that to me was like another
reason why i decided to buy it and i said i'm gonna be using it every time i need to get in a
car and go somewhere because i really want to understand where the shit is going and like if
you see what the car is doing like how it behaves then you start connecting the dots and
you're like oh like these robots like these humanoid robots are actually gonna work
if they can just learn like how to do something from a video the same way the car did
like it's gonna change the world completely and so so like yeah i just did it for this reason bro
yeah i just did it for this reason bro okay look very interesting i think uh
yeah it sounds like it sounds like you're enjoying it are you able to like do work or do you no no
man i mean you still have to man like safety first man i see some of these like videos where people
like making like girls do makeup you know when they they like have FSD on and like stuff like that.
And, you know, safety first.
So like I obviously pay attention, right?
Like I'm still behind the wheel and I pay attention.
You know, yes, I can.
I can obviously be on the call, but it's hands free.
Right.
And stuff like that.
So so I still pay attention because like it's not there yet.
And also regulatory wise, like, you know, you have to pay attention.
Like the test level reminds you every second.
If you're just watching your phone for three seconds,
it will start showing something on the screen.
Pay attention to that.
And if you don't, it will just...
Hang on, hang on.
I'm not like...
I know I'm kind of sounding like the calculator hater,
but I'm not sure I like that there's a camera
watching me like that inside my car.
You know what I'm saying? Like that's... Yeah, like it's it's only local right it's it's like
it's like your face id on your iphone so it doesn't go to a server you know it's like it's
like on the car interesting you know interesting interesting well look um but okay is this the
number one reason why you wouldn't use it
like leo like just because you're you're afraid i don't yeah i don't like the camera watching me
like that yeah i don't like that but the reason i don't use it is because i don't have a tesla
i mean that's the reason no i i get it i i mean i would just recommend everybody to try it man
probably do it if i had a tesla i'd probably do it like if i already had it i would probably do it
yeah yeah i would just recommend everybody to try i you know i think it's it's mind-blowing
you just like you need to use it like don't use it just once because yes you can have a
bad experience maybe it doesn't do the right turn whatever like it happened to me like when i was
like when i was
it just did one thing like the way it should you know and and he was like oh see like it's
not good you know but like but if you use it like for a week or two like you will realize how smart
it is you know that's that's it yeah i may i may get a new car at some point i've actually had this
like i have a 20 year old truck um i may need to get a new car at some point and I think Tesla would be pretty cool
because it's like the Tesla's obviously they're very sleek and like fun to drive and stuff I've
driven them um but I think the self-driving is like a pretty badass feature and like I think
they're like way ahead from the rest of the cars as far as I can tell I think like self-driving is like a pretty badass feature. And like, I think they're like way ahead from the rest of the cars.
As far as I can tell, I think like you get a Toyota.
Yeah.
There's like, man, I think in the U S you guys don't have any competition, man.
In the U S there's literally zero competition.
I mean way more, but like way more is like, you cannot really buy it.
You cannot have it yourself.
You can just like haul it.
Yeah.
And it will just go somewhere it
will not go anywhere you want it will just like be in some location where it's like pre-mapped
and and that's the location that it can do right so it's very different from like having a car that
wherever you go it doesn't really matter it will just drive itself you know so like in the us you
guys have no other option.
In Asia, especially if you, like, I mean, I studied these things. So, in China, they have a bunch of these, like, competing brands.
And they're doing relatively good.
And they are competing with Tesla, obviously, in China very well because of regulation.
Like, Tesla is not allowed to train on the local roads because of regulation.
Tesla is not allowed to train on the local roads because of regulation.
It cannot take like video of you driving in China because that's like national security risk, right?
So Tesla is not allowed to do that kind of training.
Only the Chinese companies can, which gives them a huge advantage in China specifically.
So like in China, like Tesla has a huge amount of competition but anywhere else man like
like it's it's not even close okay very interesting very interesting yeah i think
i'd be interested to see if google licenses out their tech at all for like car companies like
will you know gmc do this or chevy or you know there's there's some american and what truck do you have man like uh i'm not
gonna say exactly i'm not gonna say exactly it's not oh it's not super exciting it's not super
exciting i'm just like not trying to give people a ton of information um okay okay okay is it a
big ass truck at least like like big one it's a v8 does it have does it have like a hemi it's a v8 or something
v8 it's not like tiny i mean they're like if you're imagining some massive truck it's not
that massive it's no no it's it's just funny because like this is this is such an american
culture right you know you guys like big trucks it's funny it's funny it's true though yeah i
mean look we like you're a living proof of it man like big trucks it's funny it's funny it's true though yeah i mean look we
like you're a living proof of it man like big vehicles this is definitely true i think big
vehicles are safer when you're on the road with other big vehicles that's kind of my thinking it's
like if we were in europe and everybody's driving like the little fiat smart cars then you don't
need that but like do you really want to be on the road with a bunch of people that have like
massive you know five ton trucks.
When you're like in a tiny car in the U S like, I think if you're in the U S having a, you know, at least an SUV or like something a little bigger is probably smart.
Um, okay.
I'm trying to think here.
I think we've covered a lot.
I'm seeing, man, we didn't cover one thing.
We didn't cover one thing. And it cover one thing and it's it's funny
because we have talked about this in the past you guys have made fun of me in the past on the show
we didn't talk about moonbirds bro moonbirds got acquired oh my gosh somehow we're gonna talk about
this jan was talking about this in our twitter space our ordinal show group chat with trevor
and i just ignored it along with trevor but somehow this is
gonna happen all right okay jan leave the segment from people who don't know no man i we don't have
to make a segment out of it i'm i'm just like you know i think it's interesting obviously i have some
bags but my bags are very mini bags so okay like guys like you know it i've told you that i have
held my moonbirds i've still lost so much fucking on them that like i kind of forgot about it you know so the fact that they pumped like 2x or
whatever because of this announcement doesn't really change anything for me okay like i'm still
down bad okay but no it's interesting trend right because you know like you guys been selling ip recently and moonbirds is just another example of
that and um yeah i'm i mean i'm just curious to see like what's gonna happen with it is it gonna
survive is it gonna thrive is it just gonna be like for a couple weeks and then it's gonna die
eventually like we'll see like i one thing that i did immediately i reached out to the guy who
is now leading and i was like hey guys, let's do something on ordinals now.
Like, you know, let's do something official on ordinals.
If you need help, I'm here to help.
And let's see what's going to happen.
They haven't confirmed, obviously, anything.
I guess, you know, if they will want to do anything, we can invite them and we can talk to them about it later.
But, yeah, man, I just think it's interesting.
It's an interesting trend.
You know, Yuga Labs, it's kind of like they consolidated in the previous cycle, right?
And now they're kind of like letting the IP go because they realize probably they cannot
manage it and it's not good for the holders.
You mentioned it yourself, Leo, like many times.
It's not good for the Ape holders that there is like so many things that Yuga owns and
they kind of have to like focus on on different communities and different ips so i guess maybe they're following
your advice man like they're just refocusing yeah they're refocusing on their core business
and their core ip i think that's very smart um it's like when steve jobs came back to apple
he basically had a very simple strategy. They're going to get rid of
these 20 corporate products that Apple, Apple created all these products and they were doing
them all mediocrely, right? They were doing a medium job at everything. And he said, we're
going to do three devices. Okay. We're going to do, uh, we're going to do a, uh, powerful computer.
We're going to do a more normal kind of average person computer that everybody can use.
And then we're going to do a small device and the small device was the iPod, which had not been created yet.
This was like five years before the iPod.
The first device was the iPod.
The little device was the iPod.
The consumer device was the iMac also had not been created yet. And then the powerful device was the iPod. The little device was the iPod. The consumer device was the iMac, also had not been created yet.
And then the powerful device was the Mac Pro.
And that single decision completely turned the company around
because those three products were just massive hits,
specifically the iPod, obviously, but the iMac as well.
And I think you definitely can kind of just lose the vision
and all of the money and success and corporate stuff and then
wake up a few years later and you just lost track of what even the goal is, right? And I think you
get a little bit in that situation as a company. And I think refocusing and doubling down on their
core product and IP makes a lot of sense. So I think getting rid of Moonbirds and I think Spencer
is a smart dude. Hopefully he'll do do something interesting i don't know his experience building ip a lot of people are comparing this to
luca buying punch do you do you know his background though like do you know who he is because i i
haven't looked at it i follow him i think i followed him even before but i don't know too
much about him yeah i don't know a ton about him but he was like uh you know, in the 2021 NFT stuff, he was a, you know, kind of little figure,
not like a huge figure, but he, you know, collects NFTs and has a fund where he collects
NFTs on behalf of his LBs and basically invests in NFTs.
And I would say all around was like not someone that got caught up into a ton of drama pretty like normal well thoughtful kind
of guy basically so like his head screwed on straight no i don't know if that's bullish for
an nfd collection or not sometimes it helps to have a like kind of crazy leader kind of situation
but yeah i think he'll probably like he will definitely not rug i can say that
he'll he'll not rug he'll like work he'll try his hardest for a few years to build something
whether he's successful or not you know i would look at his track record and i don't know what his
track record is with like building ip and companies and stuff i think luco was a pretty simple
situation it was like this guy was kind of a successful kind of like successful
internet entrepreneur, like spreading IP grinding, just take, give him any IP.
He'll blow it up.
He already had done that and proven that.
Right.
This guy, I don't know.
He doesn't have that track record.
Maybe he can do that.
I don't know.
We'll have to find out.
I'm wishing him luck though, for sure.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe he can do that. I don't know. We'll have to find out. I'm wishing him luck though, for sure.
But like, you know, I said it many times.
I said it many times before. I really think that the Moonbirds art is really great.
You know, if I look beyond like Kevin Rose and all these guys did whatever,
and then they then they basically
rocked whatever just disappeared but you know like i still think that the art is really great
i think you know it's unique and uh it has potential but again like what will it take
to revive it to potentially bring it back and make it like i mean at some point they were like top three collection right on ethereum like like they were basically like one of the most popular collection
out there that that that ever existed and i don't know if they can they can get even close to that
just given the fact like what the competition is love a comeback story on and people already know
about it so it's almost like
you can't go much worse than like the point two eath that it got left off at by yuga and kevin
right i mean i don't want to jinx you guys but it's basically nothing um so that puts you in a
pretty unique position where you get to make a comeback story. And yeah, it really comes down to like this guy
understanding NFT culture,
specifically NFT PFP culture and getting,
it's a pretty simple equation.
It's actually not that different than a meme coin.
You have to get your IP into the timeline,
into the feed on Twitter.
You have to gain mindshare.
It doesn't really matter how you do it.
So if he's able to do that
and has a brain for like turning IP into that, then he'll succeed probably. And if he doesn't,
you know, I see lots of projects that like do something really cool. And there's not,
nobody's like marketing it and getting it into the feed where people see it. First,
there's people like Frank, you know, people shit on Frank all day and some people shitting on him last night, but you have to give it to him. Like he's great
at marketing. And he would take some little thing that DGods did that really every other project
had already done. It wasn't that interesting at all of a thing. It wasn't unique, but Frank took
the thing and then marketed it and got everybody talking about it. Some people hating it. Some people liking it. If you can do that and get into some attention situation, your IP can grow.
And then you leverage that attention to then build stuff.
And that's the key.
What a lot of people do is they just build, but they never figure out how to get the attention,
even if they were good at building something.
So you have to have both for an NFTd collection to be successful special what's up
yeah gm leonard's gm yan um yeah i mean like i i kind of joined the space uh at the time when
everyone was talking about dog in vegas but um just to continue the conversation talking about
like kevin rose moonbirds and like the recent sell off basically acquisition by a gaming company to take over for
like the Moonbirds IP. One thing that I'm just like thinking about is like originally and still
now like Moonbirds were CC0, right? Which means that like nobody owns the IP individually for
all the holders that are holding Moonbirds because they're CC zero, nobody actually owns the IP to build out from. And I think like, that's
one of the things in this space that we have been looking for and look at from
collections from like early ETH collections, like from board apes or to
even moving into ordinals, um, it's with pieces or any other, any other project in
this space that is giving the IP to their holders when they actually are buying
and collecting pieces
from a collection.
Whether Moonbirds...
I think it's a great IP
and the images
are great and there's a lot of potential.
I think I just
want to reflect back on
the CC0 aspect
that holders are not actually owning the
ip of any of the fat of any of the moonbirds that they hold because it was cc0 i don't know if that
changes with like a new acquisition of like being selling it like the does that change um that
originally kevin rose and the original concept of moonbirds and hit his decision
to make it cc0 that no one can own the ip and everyone can like re use those images for in any
way that they want in some sense i mean to the limits of like the understanding of um not owning
the ip and then like now it's being acquired by a gaming company and they acquire
like Moonbirds, Oddities and like, I mean the full stack, right? And with that full stack acquisition
are, and like moving into gaming. Yeah. There's like a lot of great potential. And we saw Moonbirds
pump with that announcement. We saw like the floor price went up, people got excited, people speculated
and bought, and we saw that pump.
It might retrace or not.
I don't know.
And I haven't really paid attention after the initial pump in that announcement as far
as floor price of Moonbirds.
But I'm just thinking as a CC0 collection and that the individual holders own the IP,
cc zero collection and that the individual holders are on the on the ip like what do you guys think
about like um for anyone that wants to like acquire like like pick up a moon birds or i just
i'm like a little bit confused or don't understand like right now why you would why you would want
to buy a moon birds or like what is the really future potential of owning a moon birds knowing
that they were cc zero from the beginning um and that you don't actually own you can't even use the the moon birds you have
like in any sort of ip way and that everyone can use your moon bird as well because it's cc0 and
then now it's acquired by a gaming company to do something else with it like what is i'm like trying to wrap my head
around the fact that like why would why would like that announcement like pump moonbirds or why like
people are like still okay like leaving it from kevin rose because sorry this is like a long rant
but leaving leaving it off from kevin rose of course because he kind of like abandoned everything
i think like kevin rose is just like, like, gave up on everything somehow.
I don't know.
Like, everyone expected so much more from him a long time ago
after Moonbirds were, like, you know, doing really well,
like, reaching all-time high.
I mean, remember how high they were selling back in the day
and people were holding up until, like, 70 ETH?
I know that was the ETH bull run.
But anyway, it's just, like, I'm I'm trying to figure out like what is really going on
because you guys were talking about Moonbirds.
So I just also am like trying to figure out like with the CCs.
Yeah, go ahead.
Sorry, go ahead.
I think they're building a game.
I think Spencer's trying to build a game.
You can correct me, but I think that's the kind of pitch
is that there's going to be a game around Moonbirds.
Jan, do you know anything about that yeah no man i have no idea and uh i don't have time to really even like look into it to be honest yeah it's all good we don't have to talk about too
too much yeah they are building a game around it that's what i'm saying like they acquired to build
a game around yeah yeah i i just don't know i i just found it interesting that like it got acquired but like i don't know about the roadmap i i you know even
especially like i have no idea like how i would answer your question like i at this point i would
probably say don't buy yeah i know no it's all good man it's it's probably not not worth it until
you have more clarity exactly like i think those questions that you're asking are really good questions and uh i i really don't don't know anything about it to to be able to give you a good
answer guys yeah no worries man and i just think like yeah i just i came into that conversation
of and i think um obviously they're building a game and things and like the where they develop
it makes sense and i just don't understand how it like will reward any of the holders of moonbirds with it being a cc0 collection which means that
like everyone can use all of that ip of all the individual moonbirds to do anything with
um but actually like um can i just say something else about dog or like i don't know where you want
to take this conversation i just actually wanted to say one thing about dog and also, and also Vegas.
We can take it anywhere.
So, okay.
Like, I don't really want to talk about moon birds.
I know you guys are talking about moon birds,
but I like don't really have any interest in that whatsoever.
I just, you know, I just follow it.
I mean, birds are crap.
Anyways.
Yeah.
Like, no, I have a lot of friends that hold moon birds and I feel sorry for
them that didn't sell it all time. But you know, like other than that, I'm just like, all right, let's move on. anyways yeah like no i have a lot of friends that hold moon birds and i feel sorry for them
that didn't sell it all time high but you know like other than that i'm just like all right let's
move on um no man i just wanted to say like let's get back to if you guys are cool i would love to
talk about dog again in vegas because i mean the title of the space is ruined june right um so
ruined june and dog in vegas and, um, you were talking about Vito.
And when I first came into space as a listener, you guys were talking about Vito, talking
about the dog event and like dog representation.
Not only was there, you know, and I missed like part of the space early on, but, um, not
only was there, you know, the, like, you know, a booth, but like the dog event that
like after, after party, after the pizza party but like the dog event that like after after party after the
pizza party like the dog event was crazy like veto organizing this um you know with a big blow
up dog i mean probably people have seen that all over the tl and having this party and things when
i first came yeah it was insane it was crazy i think um that also the other thing when i came
into the space that when i first was
trying to get up to i think like lean ice was mentioning dot swap um and um i i didn't really
like hear the whole context because i entered a little bit late in the space but um yeah i met
the the dot swap guys and and they told me like yeah like we have like crazy rune trade like dog
trading on dot swap was like more than like any, like,
you know, imagining anywhere else. And I was also like super hyped to hear like that, how,
like the volume of like the people buying a dog and things like that. So I just like,
I left Vegas like more hyped about dog than ever. Um, and you know, there was, I mean,
there's a lot of things that happen in vegas but like
like it was really amazing to connect to like this other dog community and to see like what um how
uh the community like for for i mean specifically veto like how the like leading a community to be
active to like represent dog and to to show Dog for the world.
Yeah, anyway.
Yeah, go ahead, J-Lo.
What did you say?
You think Stale or whatever tweeted about Dog?
I don't know who's going to tweet about Dog,
but I think it's like Vegas Dog was present,
and it was insanely present.
So that was something something that were replaced
yeah it was unexpected right i mean like because where were we like where in the conference were
we like um in the front where you're walking in the back where was the dog booth or is that right now? No, the blow up, the blow up was at, so, so what did,
I don't know if you guys ever talked about this on this, on this space.
I don't know if I want to like, um,
re talk about things that are already talked about cause I came in the space
late. Did you guys already talk about this?
We did talk about it some, but yeah, answer the question. Basically JLo,
there was a
like the big 50 foot tall inflatable was on the rooftop party there was a smaller inflatable
that was part of the within the event sorry sweet thank you thank you no you're all good man but
like i'm so anyway i walked into i like basically after the pete is like after party of inscribing vegas and i walked into
like the upstairs um through like the upstairs bar to get to the top of the dog event um and i
like walked in there and you know like you know veto handed a couple drink coupons to different
people based on like you know who who who, who was coming, you know,
and I don't think ever, maybe some people got them, some people didn't, I don't know.
And then like, yeah, there's this huge blow up dog next to the stage. It's giant. It's like,
I mean, it like takes over the whole space, like to the rooftop, um, looks amazing. And then,
um, you know, someone who was it, It was a veto. I don't know.
Or someone else got up like on this stage and started like talking about dog with the mic, you know, with the DJ going.
And anyway, it was just like like all time high vibes like for the end of like this, that time, I just thought like the community of dog and the fact that people that believe
in dog will take initiatives to do something more and to like build
something out from like a free airdrop by Leonidas of the runestone that like
turned into the dog token dog to the moon dog
go to the moon right and then like to know that there are so many people passionate about dog
going to the moon to take this kind of initiative to build after parties to like sponsor and like try to figure out what to do for events
and like and build something it just it it made me feel like um that's what we need for any sort
of project is when like you know i mean we all know like i don't have to repeat things but like
to know that this was like a free air
driver people and then people get into it and then and obviously we speculate we build and we
try to like build a community but anyway it wasn't it just like something like came across my mind
that was how we can like grow together and continue to do more together as like the dog community.
And I never, I mean, it's like the first IRL, IRL offline event.
That's like a dog event.
I think I haven't seen any of the other events before this.
So it was, it was, it was crazy.
It was, um, makes you super like connected and wanting to know how we can like build and keep
growing dog together yes special it's interesting you bring this up i think i definitely noticed
something as well and i've always kind of been bullish on this but the idea of decentralization
as like the the root for your movement and spreading what you're doing i think is like super powerful
and doesn't get tapped into enough i think there's this default inclination in crypto
to you know even though we're in crypto to like centralize and do all of this but in that model
works well for certain things there's no question about it and there's plenty of projects to prove
that but there's also this model of a decentralized movement on the internet
with just memes and culture. And I would just provide two examples of this that are
very successful, it seems, which are in the Bitcoin ecosystem. You've got the Bitcoin puppets and dog.
Both are CC zero. Neither of them really raised any money, did any expensive mints or they were basically
just free mints and airdrops. And there's really no organization like the puppeteer. I don't think
does a whole lot. I don't do a whole lot. Um, it's like, there is no company. People just created
these things and then it's everyone's and then people can do whatever the hell they want with it
and i think that sense of shared ownership really it makes you want to be part of something and
contribute to something verse if you do feel like you're you know paying a team and you're basically
hiring a team to go do something why would you do anything then that's not how it's supposed to work
so it's almost like there's just a totally different feel for CC0 projects that are just totally decentralized. And I think it's like, it is definitely interesting
that, you know, two IPs that showed up the strongest in Vegas were just these free men's
basically. I just think that's interesting because it literally completely community organized in
both senses. I think Hills was a big initiator for a lot of the puppet stuff. And then Vito and
JDog were big initiators for Dog. But the community just did stuff on their own. And it's like,
nobody asked for permission. People just went and did stuff. I think that's kind of cool. I think
it's kind of telling. I think you don't need money to do stuff necessarily is the point that I'm
making. Like- 100%.
Money's important, but Satoshi just created Bitcoin and through decentralization, Bitcoin's become
massive and he didn't need a marketing budget.
You know what I'm saying?
He didn't charge people.
It was a fair, a fair, he never sold any of his Bitcoin.
You know what I'm saying?
It was a fair launch.
So, embracing that decentralization to spread IP using the CC0 license, I think it's very
powerful. And like the two, you know, objectively kind of strongest communities on Bitcoin are leveraging
that. And that model is winning on Bitcoin, which I think is like super badass. And Vegas is just one
more example of that being the case. And my final point here that I'll make is that,
yeah, like more people should do this. More IP should be CC zero.
More people should be decentralized starting out like this.
And yeah, it's like the kind of vibe I get is like, you know, like when you're a little
kid and your parents are like gone, like maybe you're a teenager, your parents are gone for
the week on a vacation and you have the house and you throw a huge party.
That's kind of the vibe the general vibe is like no one's in control there's no rules you can do whatever you want there's something kind of fun about that week and yeah that's how it feels being
part of like bitcoin puppets or dog army or something i think it's like there's no one in
charge like you know it's just a bunch of people doing
whatever the hell they want to for fun and being creative and i think that's pretty cool and i think
uh you know that model is working very well on bitcoin and i think you know let's continue to
perpetuate that model and have more projects use that model for sure 100 and you know what's crazy
is like um if you look at how that model was also built out by um for bitcoin puppets
and also dog for the two people that kind of took this initiative actually like for bitcoin for
bitcoin puppets to represent in vegas um and also for dog to represent vegas the like what happened What happened was that both of them used the same model where they launched a secondary collection, an Ordinals collection. And it was supported by the community of other holders of Bitcoin Puppets to mint the new smaller collection of Bitcoin Puppets to use those funds to be able to start sponsoring and do something more with.
And Vito did the same thing. dfps and then like fee two i know like the next i mean the next season actually i think he
reimbursed everyone that minted it if i remember because um it didn't mint out and he just thought
like we should we just reimburse everyone that meant like minted the the second season i'm pretty
sure that's what happened um not that's what he posted or that's what he talked about at least
and that the concept of like when something is cc0 or you're part of a community how can you raise funds from that
community that you're a part of to like spread what you guys are believing in to raise the money
because there's no like just for like for instance for dog, like you already did the free airdrop of the runestone.
And then like that converted to the dog token.
And now we have like, like the largest holders of any runes is dog that believe in dog.
And then what can the community do to raise, like even raise funds to, to support what they believe in was creating more collections for people to collect
within the community. And people know that those funds, and the same thing happened with Bitcoin
Puppets with the small collection of supporting that to mint this and those funds get turned into
something that can be used, I IRL to represent in Vegas.
Like Bitcoin Puppets sponsored the Trio House event.
The merch there, like I picked up a hat, they were there, they represented, they sponsored it.
Those funds were raised from the Bitcoin Puppets, like a little small alternative alternative um ordinals collection that the community could buy and mint of like different
variations and versions of the puppets to be able to raise money to do something that you believe in
and that's what the puppets did and that's what also veto did with with the dogs you know with
dog with with um I see like dog.
That's why CC zero is powerful because CC zero, many projects have like different licenses and stuff that lets you use it as a PFP or let you tweet it out.
CC zero says you can use it for profit.
You can take this IP and do literally anything, including make money, sell it, do a merch store, sell PFPs, do whatever
you want. That's the power of CC zero is that then you get an economy of many different
people creating these feedback loops of, okay, I can make money. So I'm drawn to this because
I can make money. I'm also drawn to this because I love the IP. I can sell to people who want
to buy things. I make money. They get
what they want. The IP spreads. It creates a cycle. And I think Bitcoin is the example of this.
It's the most successful CC0 project in the world, in my opinion. You've got $2 trillion
of value creation with this CC0 model. And that Bitcoin logo is plastered everywhere.
It's literally everywhere.
Every person on earth has essentially heard the word Bitcoin at least once. People like David Bailey can go create a company called the Bitcoin Conference and make tons of money himself on that.
Hopefully he's doing well. It's his business. And it spreads Bitcoin to everyone. And the Bitcoin
community loves it and is more than happy to pay and the Bitcoin community loves it.
And it's more than happy to pay for the conference ticket.
That's capitalism working.
That's capitalism working in my opinion.
Yeah, no, I love it.
I mean, I'm like, yeah, like I love it.
I love it.
I love what has happened and what people are able to do with Dog.
I love what has happened and what people have, like, I mean, just the experience of Vegas
with Big One Puppets with Dog.
I think that there is so much potential
for any community that you're in, like,
that you believe in to find ways to, like, to spread it.
And I think you're right, man.
I really think you're right.
Like, the CC0 zero it makes sense I think like individual IP if you
want to like build off the IP of like a specific specific you know whatever you
bought like that like the board apes did like you can like build a brand off of a
specific image specific image also makes sense. But I just
think that the most important thing is that when you consider like what you want to do
and what you can do, it's like there's always going to be limits with CC0 in the fact that
when you buy into, I little it's a little bit different
like bitcoin you say is cc0 but i mean bitcoin is bitcoin what i mean is that um for images or for
like uh collections whether nft or ordinals is that if something is cc0 that means that you don't
own the actual image to build off the ip of your specific image but if but building off of like tokens or building off other things um you know
building something that doesn't have like an image related to it is a little bit different um i i think
like the cc0 conversation was more based on like the moon birds conversation, like because they're CC0.
But I think with like dog or with like even Bitcoin puppets,
I guess are Bitcoin puppets CC0, by the way?
I didn't even realize that.
Are they?
My understanding is that they are,
but I don't, you know,
somebody in the Bitcoin puppets community can share
if that's the official license or if there's other similar licenses of CC0.
But I don't know if anybody wants to come up who's a puppet who wants to add to that.
But whether it is exactly CC0 or something similar, it's basically the same model.
Like people are spreading the IP and then creating little micro projects and merch and communities and PFPs around it and making money
that then spreads the IP and stuff. I think another example would be the American flag.
This is just a... Anybody can take the American flag and you're legally allowed to sell a T-shirt
with the American flag on it. You don't have to ask for permission. You don't need to pay royalties
to the American government. They want you to spread their IP throughout the world.
And the American flag has become one of the most iconic things on planet Earth through
that model.
And if you're driving through the South, Southeastern America, you'll just see on the
side of the road store a little pop-up tent that has American merch.
It's just american flags on everything
american flag t-shirts hats cowboy boots right and that's just that's so true man that's so true
go ahead sorry yeah that's just one more example it's extremely powerful and when you actually
think about it some of the most iconic kind of ip in the world is that model for sure
that's so true i mean yeah i think like the i i mean i believe in cc zero
in this in the sense that you can spread things much further um 100 but i also think like
there is something about um with nfts and like with ordinals and like also people that are coming to the space
that want to believe in like what they're purchasing or getting into that they like
have the the rights to do something with it and that no one else can use their image.
The problem there's one problem with CC. And it's the only problem is when
you're investing something or buying something, right? Like, for instance, like you see my PFP.
If you, if you own and whatever, whoever's PFP, if you own or whatever you own, if it's CC zero
means like anyone can take what I purchased and they can use that same image to like for anything and
like build brands off of my specific image and thing that i bought um and i think that there
is and for certain things like cc0 makes sense and for for certain things, the way to spread things, if it's not like a specific image-based, like an NFT,
like ordinals, whatever we are owning and representing ourself
that someone else can't use what you bought to do something else with
because you own it, that there is this like something that has also grown in the space that you like when
we're actually wanting to purchase like an ordinal and as a PFP or as it like something
that we can use for something else.
We don't want other people to be able to also use it in the same way.
So there is this sort of, you you know conflict of like decentralization is
zero of like where everything that can be used by anybody like what all images can be used by
anybody but at the same time like you're kind of paying for or or wanting to know that like what
you're buying is like belongs to you as your own individual IP that you can build off on.
It's two totally different models.
Both can be successful, right?
Both work.
Apple is a highly trademarked logo and name for a company, right?
And it's also one of the most iconic IPs in the world.
And they have spread that through centralizing the IP. Right. So there's two different models. One is you have a team that basically owns the IP. They then make money off the IP. They use that money you just make the IP available to everyone, and then you have 100 little apples spreading it. religion or there's all sorts of things that are decentralized and just everybody can be part of
it and spread it that is how you have the largest effect um and can spread to the most people from
my perspective but there's also people that live in dictatorships and that dictator has a lot of
power over everything so it's two different models it's like the the fully decentralized or
the centralized model both Both are very successful
at spreading their thing. I just personally think that the decentralized model is underutilized and
undertapped into. I'm curious what Cynthia has to add to this. I was just going to bring up how the
Bitcoin puppets actually use what's called a viral public license which i
think is a little maybe a step further even than cco so it can be described as this work is hereby
relinquished of all associated ownership attribution and copyrights and redistribute redistribution or
use of any kind with or without modification is permitted without restriction subject to the following conditions.
Redistributions of this work or any work that makes use of any of the contents of this work
by any kind of copying, dependency, linkage, or any other possible form of derivation or
combination must retain the entirety of this license.
No further restrictions of any kind may be applied. So you can use Bitcoin Puppets in any way, pretty much shape or form, and you can do with it what you will, basically.
Yeah, that's pretty badass. That's a pretty badass license, I agree.
So yeah, the bottom line is, and there's a few variations of this, I think there's like, in software, there's like the MIT license and stuff. There's different licenses, but in general, the idea is like, basically we don't want
to do licenses.
Who is the license?
There's different ways to frame it.
But we don't want to do licensing.
We don't want to do the centralized IP.
And there's even like on a spectrum, there's versions of it that are like, okay, everybody
can spread it, but you have to give attribution. You can make money from it, but you have to give attribution. There's a ton it that are like, okay, everybody can spread it, but you have to give
attribution.
You can make money from it, but you have to give attribution.
There's a ton of different licenses.
I think the best one is the one where just use it and then you don't have to think about
if you're like, you don't have to think about if you're dealing somebody's work or like
needing to give them credit or this kind of stuff, just go spread it.
The goal is to spread it everywhere.
These are interesting models and we'll kind of continue to watch and see
how they evolve. I think both have strong ties in crypto culture and Bitcoin culture,
and I think we'll continue to kind of spread it. And I'm excited to see them hopefully go into the
more mass mindshare just outside of just crypto Twitter, but into
the whole rest of the world as well.
And I think like the platform of CC0 is a way that that can actually happen.
I see both Cynthia and Special Your Hands are up, but I know my Twitter space is rugging
as well.
So if either of you wanted to add something else.
If either of you wanted to add something else.
I don't know if Cynthia, I don't see Cynthia's hands up.
I don't know if Cynthia, I don't see Cynthia's hands up.
I just want to say like, like I completely agree with Julie and I just like, I think
like it doesn't matter whether you're CC zero or, I mean, there's a lot of ways to like
when projects launch and how they give rights to their holders.
I definitely think like as long as we're building together, whether it's a decentralized model or not, whatever.
The thing that I wanted to ask Cynthia, because I was following what she said,
and I think there's a big distinction between what those rights were in CC0.
And the last thing I want to say about that is basically,
CC0 would mean that if bitcoin puppets
were cc0 means that i could use your pfp and i could like build a whole brand around it even
though you own that pfp um you know i like your pfp but like if i if i took your your puppet
and i just wanted to make like and launch some other brand around it cc0 means i could do
it and even though you own that puppet and that's your pfp i could like put it on labels i could do
everything i wanted with it because it's cc0 and because like and i like what um i don't know what
that was what what the name of like what you read was called like what what because i don't know all the technical terms of like the legality of ip i i'm not in that industry
like i don't understand exactly what exactly that that um the original name of that is but what what
you read i understood the terms and from my understanding not being cc0 means that basically i still can't use your pfp
that i see here and make uh like a brand off of it and i think there there is something about
decentralization and c0 and giving um rights to people to like build off of things that makes it
actually spread much further and i think that that
makes a lot of sense hang on hang on special i don't understand in both licenses you can take
cynthia's pfb and build a brand absolutely and in bitcoin puppet's license i can take her absolutely
absolutely bro people are doing it now you can't you can't turn your brand into a licensed thing
but it's still a brand you can sell it like brands in my opinion this is i guess it's like a different
mental model but you don't need to license your brand like you have the the social proof it's kind
of like uh gucci there's there's infinite gucci bags now right the fake gucci bags are everywhere
but people still pay thousands of dollars
for the real Gucci bag.
People know that you were the creator
and that you were creating reputation
around what you're creating
and have social proof about that thing.
And you can absolutely create a brand
that doesn't need anything to do with the government.
So you do not need the government to create a brand. You just create a brand on the internet you don't need the government involved
at all yeah i mean but for copyright right for for instance like leonitis explain this mod i've
spent a lot of time thinking about this like why do you need the copyright like what's the issue
are you scared that someone's gonna do a better job no but le But, Lee and I, man, I can take your PFP right now
and, like, create a whole brand off of it.
You know what?
Who cares?
I don't care.
And make a lot of money off of your PFP.
That's completely fine.
That just makes me more famous.
Do you get it?
But you don't make any money.
It's like the imaginary problem that people worry about.
You don't want money or kickback from that?
Absolutely not.
I mean mean you're
pfp right now you're you're you're a legend and everyone knows your pfp in this space right there's
100 leonitis is running around making no not I mean leonitis is I mean your pfp right now
your your your social identity people can take my pfp and do literally whatever they want if they're
a better leonitis than me they can have it okay I'm not no we don't we don't we don't need the name i mean the image yeah if you want to take this image
and do something else with it i have absolutely no issue literally no i don't scam but no but i
think like other people do because they want to because when we start to have our social identity and we use a certain pfp to represent
ourself online um our online identity becomes connected to the the profile picture that
everybody sees and people recognize us by that and that becomes like it's kind of somehow ingrained
into our identity and then we we also feel like we kind of own it and we also like both like are
connected to it in a certain
way i mean this depends if you like change your pp all the time you still are that pfe though
it's like other people i guess this is the point the way i look at it is like getting angry that
someone right click saved your image on the internet and then also posted on the internet
to me this is super dumb it's like it's the internet right why me, this is super dumb. It's like, it's the internet, right?
Why do you like, you're the loser on the internet
if you're the one freaking out and saying,
I need the government to come help me on my internet.
I don't want the government on the internet.
The internet is a peer-to-peer network in the world
with like 7 billion people connected to it.
And I'm fine to just interact with people
on the internet peer to peer
and i don't really want the government uh super involved with that that's my opinion and that's
just how no no i don't mean the government getting involved well there's literally no way to have ip
without getting the government involved literally what ip actually is is saying that if you do
something that i don't like with this image then i'm going to send the government to your house
and they're going to point a gun at you and extort money from you that's exactly what ideas
right and i don't think there's any place for that on the internet really personally
i'm also extreme in this view dude i love that i mean i love your your extremist views and i love
that you are so decentralized and so like they can do whatever you want with my with my my pfp i i mean
i love your attitude i love i love that um and i it's just it's i think it's very rare because
like literally um it's not about for me i never thought about it as a government issue. I just thought of it as that if someone wants to start using how you're representing yourself online and take that same image and do something more with it, without having any sort of...
I guess it is, I mean,
it is government because you have to use government to create the regulation.
Yeah. I never think about it as a government issue. I just think that, um,
a lot of people want to, when you come,
when you come into social media and you're like, I mean,
whether it's X on spaces or whether whatever social media,
how you are showing yourself to the rest of the sort of digital online world, this becomes your
avatar. This becomes your social identity. And the image is how people see you. It's like your face.
is how people see you. It's like your face. And to take someone's face on social media
and to start using it and do other things with it. Like I can, like you just literally said,
I can take your current PFP and like brand it and put it on everything and sell a shit ton of it.
Not Leonidas, not your name, whatever. I don't care but like your pfp right now i can
just use it for whatever i want and i think that there is something that like like i can make like
i could like take it i mean not me because i don't have like maybe the business model or like
what to do with it but somebody could take it and like run with it and like put your current pfp all over the world doing things with it
for like as like their new logo for some new company and you're just you're saying like okay
yeah just do it right then you'll just change your pfp you'll just change your pfp later right or
whatever we can beat the source to death. I think people know my answer.
And I personally think like, look, there are definitely benefits to IP stuff, right?
Like, you know, there's pros and cons.
It's like, I think to take a little bit of a more serious topic than profile pictures, right?
You know, intellectual property and basically ownership around things, which is just this
made up concept. Nobody can own information. Nobody can own an image. This is not a,
it's a fucking made up thing. Nobody can own that, right? There's no concept in my opinion,
that's real of ownership of that, but you like, you can own, you can own, you know,
a rock that's in your hand and that's like your property but for this
like kind of made up stuff in our brains saying that somebody can own it and someone else doesn't
own it this is all this is all just kind of a giant game that we play where we kind of all believe it
so it works but like for drug uh for like pharmaceutical drugs i think there's you know
two sides to the equation and i can see both sides are both strong arguments.
On one side, in the US, we basically say, I think it's about 30 years for a drug,
that if you're a pharmaceutical company, which is basically just a startup,
spends a bunch of money, it takes $100 billion to invent a drug that then goes on to increase
the quality of lives. We all benefit from this. Many of us would probably be dead if we didn't have pharmaceutical drugs, right? You then save a bunch of people's lives,
cure a rare disease, and you get to charge a lot of money, right? To try to recruit your
a hundred million and hopefully make more because there's a risk you're taking on where you spend
a hundred million. You don't develop a drug and lose it all. So there has to be that risk reward
situation. So your goal is to then make a billion from it. You get to charge a lot of money.
And after the breakthrough, the discovery is made. No one else for 20 or 30 years,
I forget the number, can make any money from that drug. So the argument for that is that
nobody would invent the drug in the first place if there wasn't protections around it, that allowed them to make
their billion dollars to justify the crazy risk of spending 100 million to develop a drug that's
maybe, you know, going to help, it's going to save 20,000 lives. People just won't spend the
money to do that out of the virtuousness of their heart, right? People need to make money as well.
You know, it's like, unfortunately, that's the reality. And it's like, if you don't think that's the
reality, that's how the world works. We could theoretically just spend 20% more government
budget to develop those drugs, but it turns out that we don't want to do that and we would
rather do all kinds of other random stuff. So private companies end up being the ones,
at least in modern society, who develop drugs and they have
to be incentivized to do so. And they're not going to do it if they can't make money from it,
because then the business model that would be profitable would be the one just sitting there
waiting for a new drug to be developed. As soon as someone else spends $100 million to develop it,
you then just go clone it and go to market really quickly with it. Right. And then you didn't have to spend all the crazy hundred million on development.
Right.
So that's the argument for why you need that kind of government control around that.
And then on the other side, there's people who will make the argument that, okay, you
developed this drug, you're charging an insane amount for it and not letting anyone else
develop it.
There are literally people dying every single day around the world. If you would open this up, made it CC zero, where every
scientist in the world could legally replicate this and sell it for a hundredth of the cost,
people in India or something, then you would be saving a massive amount of people's lives.
And it's very tough ethical questions that you can debate in philosophy
classes all day long, because both sides have very strong points, in my opinion. And it's kind
of similar with the CC zero verse, the approach of saying, hey, I'm going to, you know, copyright
all this IP and I don't want some competitor to make a company called Apple with the same Apple logo and sell computers. So the point that I'm making is that specifically, I think the power of a billion people on the
internet believing in something and creating a decentralized movement and decentralization,
that is deeply underrated. We have a lot of companies, a lot of people follow the model of doing the corporate IP
way. It's an arbitrage to do it the other way. And I think the outcome can be just as big,
if not bigger that other way, and there's less people doing it. So right now, you can even be
more successful like that. So I'm not saying that one is way worse or better. I am simply saying that you get to make a decision
which way you want to choose. Everybody's choosing the corporate way. I think there's a huge
arbitrage opportunity to spread IP the non-corporate way, the decentralized way, the way that
Casey made ordinals and ruined CC0, all of his projects and all of his artists CC0. Satoshi made
Bitcoin CC zero.
The puppeteer made Bitcoin puppets, what's essentially CC zero, this viral license.
So I think that is an arbitrage for attention and spreading something and spreading IP where
you can tap into something very deep and powerful that people are hungry for.
And I don't think that it's bad to do corporate IP
or something like this. And I think it can be a successful model as well, but I think you have a
lot more competition and it's what everybody does. So that's basically the point that I'm making.
You can choose, you have a choice. You don't know, the default does not have to be that you have to
do it the corporate IP way. There is an alternative and there are people running experiments with that.
And I think it will be more and more successful over time. And I personally believe
that it matches the model of the internet and the way information is distributed around the internet
much better. I think it's more important now that an influencer is sharing your content
on a social media platform than your advertisement being in the Super Bowl sharing your IP.
So the corporate model works nicely because you want to have a Super Bowl commercial for your IP.
But today, it's more important that a Twitch streamer feels comfortable talking about your
stuff for five minutes and sharing it and playing your theme song and stuff. That's going to be way
more powerful than a Super Bowl commercial. So that's basically the point that I'm making. I
think it fits really nicely with the internet. I think a lot of IP in the future will be more decentralized than CC0. And I think
that we're starting to kind of tap into a new business model with tokenization and CC0 IP and
the internet. That combination is very powerful. And I think we'll create many hundreds of billions
of dollars of value in IP and billions of people around the world will
learn about IPs through CC0. In the past century, basically most IP has been the centralized way. The Disney's, the Nintendo's, the Super Mario's, that stuff is all centralized.
And I think there's a model for that that works really well, but I think on the internet,
probably the CC0 model, you're going to spread your stuff way more.
It fits the model of the internet really well, I think.
Yeah, I love it. And I think you made a really good point of talking about the pharmaceutical companies
or talking about like, I mean, the the business model of web 2 or of
like not CC0 of like trying to own in and own everything and make it so it's
like limited access from like medicine to like everything that we've experienced
this entire entire what we've known up to now is that like basically to
participate in something is like everyone owns something and we're not spreading information
freely so i actually i like i think you made a really good point cc0 or like the next direction is like better, better for the evolution of humanity or the evolution of,
of what's possible or something.
I think that like,
it makes some kind of way for spreading information for people to
understand and to know and to share information to build off of each
other's information to grow and to actually come up with new ideas without like copywriting things
i think that was kind of your point right is that yeah yeah 100 i'll just give one final example and
then we'll kind of wrap this up from the IP conversation.
Let's say you're a famous artist like Taylor Swift, okay?
And you have heavily copyrighted your music and your name and your brand and your lyrics and all this stuff, right?
My two senses, and I actually believe this, that Taylor Swift can be 10 times more rich
and successful if she monetized with a CC0 license.
In practice, people know Taylor Swift's voice.
People want to go to a concert and hear Taylor Swift, not some Taylor Swift impersonator.
So Taylor Swift can still go on her tours and make literally billions of
dollars each time she goes on tour, right? And she can still do all this stuff.
I think even more people around the world and more people would be Taylor Swift fans. I think
this is just objectively true if there were no IP restrictions around playing Taylor
Swift, I think Taylor Swift songs would be used in every YouTube video from every YouTuber you
watch. I think they'd be used in the background of half the dog videos that you see. Okay. I think
these songs would become even more listened to and more spread throughout the internet.
And then I think that would only make people bigger and bigger and bigger fans of Taylor Swift, which again, she is ultimately the product, right? And the music
spreads that around, but being fans of her, she's the product. So I think there's just different
models here that are interesting. And I think the people, the bottom line is the people who use this
license to spread things on the internet, stuff will just spread faster to more people on the internet, more naturally, and the attention will go to those things.
I think CC0 kind of ultimately wins out on the internet.
That's just my opinion on how this plays out.
And I think we'll see more experiments.
We're just in the early days.
I'm glad and proud that Dog's part of that experiment and that Bitcoin puppets are part
of that experiment.
And we're going to kind of create a new future model for IP here that I think will be literally
a million times bigger and used by massive things in the future.
And I think that, yeah, I don't think governments really need to be involved in IP for that.
So I think it's a new model and I think it's very, very exciting and we're on the ground
floor of it.
And it's something I'm kind of very bullish of watching evolve over my lifetime, basically. I think it'll be new model and I think it's very, very exciting and we're on the ground floor of it. And it's something I'm kind of very bullish of watching, you know, evolve over my lifetime.
Basically, I think it'll be very, very big.
And I think that, you know, there will be Taylor Swift's in the future who use that
model to surpass Taylor Swift's fame and listening and viewership and stuff.
So with that, I think we've got to wrap up here, guys.
It's been a good show.
Jan, do you have any parting words?
We've been going for three hours here. All right. I think that's a wrap. I'm going to try to end this. I'm on the desktop, so hopefully it actually ends. Cynthia, I appreciate you coming
and hanging out as well. Appreciate everyone for listening. We will be back on Wednesday, guys,
6.30 p.m. Eastern time. Glad everyone had fun in Vegas and hopefully got
to recover. Have a great rest of your week, guys, and happy Rune June. Peace.
