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Runes Anniversary
Recorded: April 25, 2025 Duration: 0:57:48Space Recording
Short Summary
In a vibrant discussion celebrating the one-year anniversary of the Runes protocol, industry leaders explored the latest innovations in the Bitcoin ecosystem, including the launch of Thunderbolt, the rise of meme coins, and the potential impact of OP-CAD on future developments. The conversation highlighted significant trends and growth opportunities within the space, emphasizing the evolving landscape of DeFi and tokenization.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. you
Hey guys, how's it going? Good, how are you? Can you hear me?
Yeah, loud and clear.
Yep, yep. Happy Rune's birthday, guys.
Hi, Ed.
Happy birthday.
I see some familiar faces down there.
Try to get as many guests up as possible and try to get as many people in here as possible.
So let's give you a minute. Thank you. Thank you. I think it maybe it's time for us to start space today.
Okay, yeah, I think we have enough people here, you know, guests, please kick off the space 32.
Sure. So, Gia and everyone, welcome to today's space. I'm 32 and I'm thrilled to be your host today.
First of all, a big, big happy birthday to Runes and Dog, and that's why we are here to celebrate and to discuss them.
And we'll be diving into the latest developments in BTC ecosystem,
including hot topics like the rise of Thunderbolt,
Elkens, and the RGB protocol.
Today, I also got my partner Chi here,
who is the marketing manager from Dotswap.
Chi, could you please introduce yourself
and share some updates on what's happening at Dotswap?
Yeah, of course.
Thank you everyone, GM, GM, GN, whenever you are.
Thank you, 32, for setting this up,
inviting all the guests and putting us out there.
And I'm really happy to be here today with our guests and everyone listening,
especially on this significant occasion. It's the one year anniversary or the birthday week
for the Rooms protocol launch like a year before. So yeah, over the past year,
I think around the same time as the Bitcoin
having the birth of the Runes Protocol
definitely brought a lot of excitement and imagination
to the Bitcoin ecosystem.
And for us as a one-stop DeFi solution
for all of the Bitcoin assets.
DotSwap has been closely monitoring and supporting the development of Rooms.
Since day one, we've incorporated Rooms into our Uniswap-like AMM Swap experience.
And we felt the pulse or excitement of this ecosystem firsthand.
You know, we've seen innovations, memes, success stories,
but also challenges, particularly around Bitcoin assets,
liquidity, security, and user experience.
So today, I'm really looking forward to deep diving
with everyone here, reviewing our journey of runes in the past year
for Bitcoin and discuss
what makes runes special, what we've been building
and what's going to be the future for us, for DotSwap,
for any of our guests. Looking forward to have a nice talk
with everyone here.
Yeah, great.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is StarSwap, a one-stop device solution for Bitcoin assets.
All right, it's time to let our guests today to introduce themselves.
And first up, I'd like to let Omidy to introduce himself.
Hey, hey, it's Sheldon from Omniti here.
Thanks so much for having us, guys.
We're very happy to join you on the birthday of Runes.
Obviously, it's also anniversary of the halving.
You know, it's a little bit delayed, but hey, if we count time and blocks,
then maybe it's not the exact same thing as the Roman calendar, right?
So at Omniti, we've been working on BTC5 infrastructure, our crown jewel of easy to use
and very efficient and powerful service offering is the on-chain runes indexer.
So as long as you're able to use just regular HTTP, which any web app and mobile app can
do, then you can get runes data into your app.
So we're looking forward to growing the larger runes marketplace, the larger runes product suite.
And that means that if you're working on something with runes, we want to support you.
This is not a pay-to-play service. This is a funded API.
So we are also working on some BTC Phi environment called the Runes
Exchange environment, where you'll have shared liquidity and lots of other tools. But more than
anything, we want to support builders who are building with Bitcoin. So thank you so much for
joining us today on the birthday of Runes. And thanks, Dotswap, for having us.
that's what for having us thank you sheldon what a great job you've done and i think next one is
norbert from newbit what's up then gmgm thank you for having me as as always for i guess third week
in a row but you know in case some of you might not know Norbert, much head of growth here at Nubit and
you know in short last week we went live on mainnet with Thunderbolt which is essentially a protocol
upgrade to Bitcoin, adding speed, smart contracts and also token support without leaving the base
layer. So you know it's a pretty big upgrade, you know, without an L2, without cost of the bridges, you're still on the Bitcoin network.
And, you know, slow by steadily trying to increase that user base.
And, you know, whenever it's time, we will also launch golden loss from it, which is essentially a token standard.
And ultimately trying to support the whole BTC ecosystem.
I think we'll definitely dive into it, but we've seen BRC20's runes,
atomic calls last week as well.
We talked about there's definitely options out there.
I think introducing some sort of a unification in between is hopefully going to
make the end user, but also the traders to have a win-win
situation with liquidity and, you know, more of an easier experience in between.
But yeah, super excited to be here. And like Sheldon said, super happy first
birthday, I guess. Crazy to think one year has already flown by, so much has
happened, but excited to talk more.
Great, no, bro.
Yeah, happy, happy birthday.
So next, I think it's Shaley from Deirdre, right?
Please introduce yourself.
Yes, Leather Wallet.
Yeah, GM, everyone.
Shaley here from Trust Machines. We have a number of applications that are focused on making Bitcoin productive, and stamps, OGs. And we are hoping to expand. I think we'll eventually expand, but I think with those protocols, it's enough to like support. There's lots of different,
you know, within those major areas, like we support protocols like Liquidium and Luminex
and others in the RUNES ecosystem and Ordinals doing DeFi, right? So you can sign with your
Leather wallet. Leather is going to be
launching mobile soon, which is going to be awesome. I've seen the mobile designs from our
team. They look gorgeous. I think everyone will be happy because you'll be able to see beautifully
like aggregated views of your ordinals and runes. And it's just going to be a nice, we're trying our best to make a great user experience, but that takes time.
So we'll, we'll get there.
Um, so that will hopefully be done in the first half of this year.
And we are looking forward to user feedback from all of you.
Um, yeah, so that's a little bit, and then we have some other apps, a Bitcoin lending
protocol called Granite, um, which is called Granite, which is on Stacks.
So you can peg in BTC to SBTC and then use your SBTC to earn yield, use it as collateral, and then take out stable coins and borrow against Bitcoin. So that's exciting. And
then we have .BTC as a namespace. So you can buy and you can send and receive your Bitcoin
and stacks and hopefully soon ordinals and ruins. We are trying to extend that to Taproot.
Ordinals and Ruins, we are trying to extend that to Taproot.
Right now it's Segwit.
So you can buy and send your Bitcoin and Stacks to .BGC handles right now.
And it's for Bitcoin naming system.
And we're hoping to extend that soon to Ornals and Roots with partners in the ecosystem.
So that's all I'll talk about today.
Thank you, Shelley.
I think that's some really good, really great things.
And keep on what you are doing,
and I think we'll check the BTC ecosystem.
So thank you all for the introductions.
Then let's dive into today's topic and start with my questions today.
It's been a year since the Runes protocol launched and I'd like to ask Chi,
could you share how Runes has impacted the BTC ecosystem over the past year?
And what role does runes play for Dotswap?
And what chains have you observed?
All right, thank you for the question.
I think from Dotswap's perspective,
we're one of the major players for runes protocol
for trading one of the biggest marketplaces.
So I think in the perspective of marketplace, the biggest impact of RUNS having on the Bitcoin ecosystem,
which is that it provided a relatively simpler, more elegant, more UTXO friendly way to issue fungible tokens, to trade tokens on Bitcoin.
And I think this simple fact really ignited the market right after its launch,
and especially with the pairing it with the timing of its launch around the same time as Bitcoin having, which garnered, I would say, most of the biggest anticipation for any token standards
since the R220 on Bitcoin.
So that attracted many new users and developers
and many teams, many investors had decided to join
on the party.
So I would say that is how it's been the first six months after its launch.
And we've seen big growth, exponential growth, and many of the attention that's been
devoted to the Bitcoin ecosystem. But since that, since the initial boom and the rapid iteration of
products, means, teams, we've seen like a urgent need for infrastructures because it's been going
so fast, the infrastructure haven't caught up. So we're not seeing as many DeFi protocols, DeFi solutions, or L2 scalable solutions.
And we've seen many wallets, but they're not as improved as those wallets in the Ethereum
other ecosystem.
So that's part of the struggles that everyone has been building.
And for us, we've been improving our AMSWAP experience for it as well.
So yeah, around, I would say, half a year after the launch,
it shifted from memes to exploring utility for the tokens that we've launched.
There has been some biggest memes, especially the top meme tokens like the dog, like BDC,
like pups, which is still focused around the fair launch airdrop idea that's been since
the start of the Bitcoin ecosystem.
But then I think people might kind of get tired from it or want to see something new.
So there's been utility-based tokens, DeFi-based tokens where you stake, you can earn yields.
But then after that, I think maybe the narrative seems no longer sexy, so it's kind of settled down from there.
And for us, you know, we decided to look into ways of improving it,
whether it's incorporate a layer two solution or it's looking into updating the rumors program itself with OpCAD,
with things like to improve it, like programmability,
smart contracts. We've looking into it, anything that can work, we try to prepare for it.
So when there's like this big new thing that's come up, whether it's going to ignite Runes
protocol itself or ignite the whole Bitcoin ecosystem, we'll be ready for it. But I think with the success of Rooms brought to the Bitcoin ecosystem,
everyone's excited and have more confidence in the Bitcoin ecosystem in the future.
Yeah.
Yeah, great. Thank you so much, Chi.
I think DOSWAP will keep on building while it has been building. And recently,
OP-CAD has been gaining attention again with Thunderbolt and Alcance. If OP-CAD is implemented
in 2025 or 2026, would the runes protocol benefit? Could it unlock new use cases or cross-chain possibilities?
I'd like to ask Amitya about this question.
I think it's a fair desire to want OpCat.
And it was also fair that Satoshi kind of pushed back against it in the forums a very long time ago.
that Satoshi kind of pushed back against it in the forums a very long time ago.
You know, when we initially were uncomfortable with security required
and, you know, other code changes necessary to enable OpCat,
you know, Bitcoin was much younger.
There was much fewer features.
My personal favorite feature, ASMAP, had not existed yet,
so there would have been a much higher probability of
broadcast problems between nodes. So I think it's reasonable that, you know, OpCat will
provide some more features and some, you know, new usability. But I think that OpCat has a very
good friend in OpReturn. You know, OpReturn is being used by runes, ordinals, and other protocols, not just alkanes.
So I think we'll see more of that kind of pairing where it makes sense to have metadata tags or
some other, let's say, minimized data in under 80 bytes that's very useful to labeling
transactions as you pursue other features or, you know, possibilities with
OpCat. So I think there will be some benefit or crossover. But I think that there is a, you know,
an interesting contrast of BRC20 versus alkane versus rune. You know, runes can sort of move up into being proto runes via alkanes.
But, you know, the same is sort of true in the sense of BRC20 versus BRC2.0.
The difference being that BRC20 growth is a little bit more focused on a sort of like L2 like behaviors and alkanes is not, you know, or software being run alongside a Bitcoin Rune. At Omniti, we think that's very productive. Sorry, I said Rune, but I mean Node. If you're running Ord alongside a Bitcoin Node, I think that, you know, OpCat could be a powerful benefit. I think that CTV is also on the table. But also this, I think that the thing to watch out for or to be sort of skeptical about is consolidation of pools.
So as we see OpCat features become more important, we also want to see Bitcoin as a node network continue to grow.
That'll be the most reassuring confirmation that it's the right move for us.
Yeah, that's amazing.
Thank you for your knowledge about this protocol.
uh, uh, knowledge about this protocol and speaking about underbot, I think Norbert have
a lot to say about this.
Right.
So, yeah, I mean, it's interesting.
I a hundred percent agree with Sheldon said, and I think why we, you know, this kind of,
I would say soft fork proposal to come up, like up, up CTV, like at the end of the day, like enabling the conditional logic, like that's what we're trying to achieve.
Um, I much like it does allow covenants, um, actual native token insurance.
And I think whichever, uh, optionality token standard will able to achieve that is going to be able to help
or able to onboard more developers. And I think with that, it also actually helps the end user.
I think what we've seen with the early on RUNES BRC20, it's been great, but it's definitely
missing that kind of factor where Ethereum or Solana, other chains have been kind of flourishing.
So I think, at least for us, OPCR is enabled, brings up programmability.
But at the end of the day, if you're able to deploy more decentralized applications directly on the base layer,
decentralized applications directly on the base layer
without depending on like a third party,
which I think both runes and BRC20
does rely on off-chain indexers.
I think with the removal of that,
we can potentially introduce either institutions
or like bigger whales to actually start moving money around
within the base layer.
I think the least amount of reliance you could have
on some centralized entities,
it does introduce some security risk.
And I think regardless of what might happen
because no one can really predict the future
at the end of the day,
that's what most of the projects are aiming for.
I think how we can minimize that centralization risk or, you know,
single entity failure point, but also how we can achieve the same thing.
What are DeFi use cases, what Ethereum has been
taken many years to achieve.
That's why I'm super, super excited to see what will come next within the BTC Echo.
But, you know, it takes time and, you know, hopefully we get to see that.
And, you know, there's the goal as well with Thunderbolt as well,
introducing the programmability, introducing the performance layer and, you know,
I could be live and with time more and more is going to get added through.
Yeah.
And I also just want to touch a bit more on this because like 32 mentioned,
OpCAD seems to be the holy grail or it's like a segue or a gateway to more things to come on Bitcoin. You can scale it, you can scale it up,
you can connect it using op return data,
putting data in op return and using opcat to write,
like improve the programmability
or actually just write a smart contract.
We've seen a success of the fractal Bitcoin
with cat 20, you can actually have smart contracts
on Bitcoin.
And now more and more teams or more protocols have been trying to utilizing it.
So whether it's Alkines that people have been discussing or whether it's Thunderbolt, you
actually kind of just connect.
You can just connect with layer two from other chains, established chains using op return data or opcat.
So yeah, I think that's really seems to be the next step
that makes the most sense.
But of course, we're happy to see anything new
that does the same thing.
For right now, it's opcat.
Yeah, thank you, Chu.
Thank you, Norbert. We'll see what's next for Orbcat. So back
to Roons itself. What attracts me most about Roons is the virality of Mimicoins and beyond
Mimicoins. I'd like to ask Shelly, what potential does Roons have in areas like DeFi, NFTs, or asset tokenization?
Which use cases do you think are the most promising?
Well, I think, you know, in order for DeFi to happen, you need some critical functionality to take place.
A, you need uh stables you need dexes to do pairs of different types with runes
and with different types of runes right so not just rune pairs but like you need
bridges you need to be able to swap easily between um different types of assets on runes and between so you know
like i think all of this is coming together right now you have the pontus bridge you have um
protocol you have like some bridges being developed i Dotswap is providing great infrastructure. You have a lot of different, I think, elements that need to interoperate for liquidity to flow easily in and out of ruins for it to feel like DeFi feels on Ethereum and Solana. And I don't think we're there yet, but we're building and it's coming
is what the sense is that I get.
And I'm curious to see what other thoughts are here.
Yeah, Sheldon, go ahead.
Yeah, I'll chime in.
We were talking about this on Spaces
a little bit earlier today
that it would make a lot of sense to
have a, you know, non-uniform standard or a few uniform standards. So instead of, you know, trying
to sort of wrap everything into one asset type, I think it's relatively likely that we'll end up
with a few different asset types, like a BRC20, a RUNES,
an ALKANES. And then, you know, at the final stage when that becomes a, you know, DAP or a
business's responsibility to handle it, that's where you get that sort of last layer of abstraction.
You know, does that mean that liquidity doesn't move conveniently between those things? Yes,
that's correct. But I think that, you know, in order to
get that demand to make the liquidity uniform and truly have that, you know, account model,
familiar blockchain kind of DeFi, it's going to take a period of time for the demand to sort of
bubble up in the right direction. You know, we already have the demand to have the liquidity
and to have, you know, runes trading against BRC20. But at the same time, you know, we already have the demand to have the liquidity and to have, you know, runes trading against BRC20.
But at the same time, you know, it's a little bit impractical to do.
So I think that, you know, whoever manages good applications that sort of take away the pain of that impracticality from a user, like that's the first party that will sort of have the choice to say,
hey, we want to prioritize alkanes in our business.
Therefore, there will be more liquidity for the alkanes pair.
So I do absolutely agree with Shaley on this one.
I just, you know, I think that it will take a little bit of time for the right UX and
for the right features to grow that.
right features to grow that. And, you know, I think some of that UX is in this room. So I'm
And, you know, I think some of that UX is in this room.
very excited to see what that will mean for Dotswap and Omni and for Trust Machines, because,
you know, between the three of us, there are many technical partners that are on this journey to,
you know, streamline their assets together. So I don't mean to just generically say it'll take
time, but I think that, you know, when one of the BTC5 applications has great success in one of
the asset standards, that one becomes a priority, and then that motivates the others to do more
protocol development, right? So we'll have a good little tug-of-war going on, and then maybe we'll
see one protocol supersede, but I think it's more likely the last phase is they'll just get easier and easier to sort of abstract together into the last app layer.
Yeah, I think we talked about this last week, something similar, which is, you know, instead
of getting Bitcoin rooms, bridging them into other ecosystem, why don't we just bring liquidity to the Bitcoin
ecosystem. And part of it is, you know, creating these like new solutions, DeFi, BTC5, making
people have more things to do with their Bitcoin, with their mean token. And what runes does for it, it's providing this base layer of,
I would say scalability or the,
it allows for more and more innovations
to be built on top of it because how simple it is.
But maybe, you know, some people say it's due for an update
since KZ has been stopped working on it.
But I think on its core, it's kind of like really elegant.
So it allows for people to build things on top of it.
And I think that provides the base for
more innovations to be built and then more liquidity can come in.
So whether it's Sablecoin, whether it's other DeFi solutions,
I think that's more, yeah.
Yeah, thank you for your sharing.
And I think recently, Elkins and RGB protocols,
which are quite hard.
So what do you think about them, Norbert?
I think it will take time it's it's interesting where
we already just talked about it a couple hours ago in another space as well because i think
alkins came up of not just one week to another because i think they've been building for many
many months now with the oil team alec i think the rapid interest kind of took a lot of people's attention
away um or death to become more of a bigger use case besides like more tokens uh it's gonna take
time i think that's the sad reality as well that we know it's building on Bitcoin is hard. It takes time. I know it's cliche to saying it all the time, but making sure that we maximize the security,
but also trying to offer the user experience is just going to take them some time as well.
Like pretty much like what Sheldon has said, like they could be essentially upgraded or
runes could be essentially upgraded to alkanes. So it definitely offers a better use cases or it could be more aligned with sophisticated
DeFi and or meme coins, like you name it.
But even I think from yesterday, they said like it will take some time.
They want to make sure everything is right before they're taking the next step.
Because I think what you don't want is
now this momentum is building.
I think there's enough eyes on them
to take this to the next level.
You don't want to rush things
and the user might suffer from it.
So I think the defaults are doing a great job.
Excited to see kind of like what's next, like timeline wise as well.
Cause I think BRC 2.0 is also like, you know, kind of brings that
programmability aspect.
And I think that's where we're heading, like what we've seen, I'm not saying
it's a new wave, but almost like an upgrade to the existing standard of what we have.
I think we, we are in the phrase where if you do want to see more users,
you know, the beginnings are going to be hard and challenging, but we do have to see some sort of
better tooling, better or more use cases for the tokens that we have besides just, you know,
and having it there, having the basic kind of applications for it.
So, yeah, it's going to be interesting.
Really excited to see.
I think the rest of the year,
many teams are working towards that to achieve that.
And I think if things do align with macro,
things do align with BTC price, I think we could see a pretty good action
a pretty good action for remaining of 2025.
for remaining of 2025.
Yeah, and I think like anytime there is like this new thing,
this new alpha, new protocol coming to Bitcoin,
you know, it sparks a wave of user actions,
trading volumes and anticipations for the next big thing.
But of course, like you said, like Norbert said, it takes time.
And for us, you know, we're monitoring the trading volume, the security of it.
Is there any clearing mistakes or concerns?
If not, if everything goes well, then DAW swap as a marketplace, as an AM swap,
we might look into, might be looking into integrating it,
but right now, yeah, it takes time.
We're just looking at the market like everyone else.
And of course, it also leaves,
it provides opportunity for teams.
So instead of relying on thought swap,
it'd be this new upcoming AMS swap or a marketplace
that provides the best user experience for it.
Then maybe that's where users will go to.
And that's exciting for us to see.
It's not like a zero-sum game.
It's not like you're stealing volume from us.
It's providing new volume, it's bringing new liquidity, and it also encourages us to keep
improving and integrating new things. So I think any new standards can be a good thing If us builders, if the users, if the market give time, give it time.
Yeah.
Thank you, Chu.
Thank you, Norbert.
And I think the bigger opportunity, the bigger challenge.
That's what we are all familiar with.
So, yeah.
Next question is about some Mimicoins.
So I think the most outstanding Mimicoins now is Doc, right?
That's our common sense.
And do you think there will be any other new Mimicoins
or anything new that will also stand out
to be represented rooms.
What about you, Shady?
I want to go ahead with this one first.
Have you seen the newest Mimicoin, the newest tweet that I just pinned?
Right now, it's magic internet money.
It's the biggest, it's the fastest growing pool on ThoughtSwap.
People have been rushing to provide liquidity for it and started earning fees since that drives more liquidity, allows for it, makes it easier to trade, to swap.
There's less price impact.
So that's what people have been doing on ThoughtSwap.
uh what people have been doing on dog swap so that's the newest trend but of course uh you can't
So that's the newest trend.
talk about rooms without talking about the biggest like fair meme coin airdrop i would say in a
crypto history whole whole crypto history which is dog dog go to the moon you know good job to
leonidas uh and how he's been building up the anticipation I would say
like two months four months before the Runes launch and everyone who received
Runestone airdrop who hold on to it can can get like you know I would say a
significant amount of dog and some people have been holding it,
huddling it, some people have been flipping it, you know, getting a good amount of back from it.
That just, you know, the success story of this kind of like fair community-based token speaks a
lot for the Bitcoin ecosystem as a whole. You know, we're close knit. We're not looking into profit as much as
how it has been in other ecosystem.
So that's, I would say the identity of us,
of the Bitcoin space has been kind of defined
by the dog of rooms.
But we've been trying to move forward from it
or more moving forward from it as well. But you can't talk about it without DOG.
Yeah, thank you. And Shetty, please share your opinion about this as well.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know of anything else that's coming out, but I agree on Dog.
I mean, obviously, it's getting listed on exchanges and within the native kind of UX of specific wallets.
So I think it's gotten a lot more visibility.
And by getting those listings, that means you have access to getting more users to buy, right?
So it's just like, I think that's a testament to the popularity.
But I don't know.
I don't know if meme coins will continue, to be honest i think especially you know here in the u.s um after like
all those meme coins after happened after the u.s election people kind of got rugged and had a bad
taste in their mouth from from uh some of these trump coin melania and all these other things. So like they, people are more cautious. Also, the market is like
up and down, volatile, unpredictable right now overall at a macro level. So
we'll see which projects, I don't know like what the appetite is to be, to be really honest about
for memes. But there will be space for that obviously because it's fun
for the community i just don't know how long it's it's gonna last is is it fun though or do you think
just people like like to gamble i mean that's what i like to call it honestly because what we've seen
everyone knows that like there's a potential to make a 10x like if your appetite is I know look I could lose it all but you know I didn't
like sell my house for this to try to bet it all on red essentially I think like that's what the
space makes it fun like I think what from token did regards to onboarding or at least putting crypto on the map was good.
Everything else, definitely don't agree with or like what the outcome and how it actually sucked out the liquidity from everything else.
But I think, you know, just to like make it short, I think like White Dog is special is they built a community around it.
Like it's definitely more than just a meme coin.
But, you know, similarly, I could definitely see,
or like hopefully get to see some more kind of token popping up on rooms.
Cause I think that's going to help onboard more people from Solana
and or Ethereum or other ecosystem.
But, you know, another financial advice. Definitely, please don't.
Don't try to bet everything on it
and know it's going to 10x overnight
because there's definitely not the space for.
Yeah, I have to hop in here
because I have mixed feelings.
So I came from the Ethereum community, right?
And I think there's like a little bit of a niche
for each of the major ecosystems.
I think for Bitcoin, okay okay solana can be for memes
i think in bitcoin we have a cut a few but it's more about community than it is for gambling
bitcoiners are not like bitcoiners like to hold they believe in long-term value and if bitcoiners
are going to do defy it's got to be in a way that you don't sell your Bitcoin.
It's got to be using your Bitcoin for collateral, using your Bitcoin for pairs.
But it's going to be a little more, I believe, the culture in Bitcoin is different.
I mean, already you have Bitcoiners that don't even want to do DeFi on layer twos
or meta protocols, right? They don't even believe in runes. So on the other hand, you have Solana
communities that's much more liberal with like, you know, the casino like behavior. And then you
have Ethereum, which is sort of in the middle and Ethereum was where DeFi began. So you do see some of that Ethereum community
coming to Bitcoin DeFi, which is awesome.
And so I think eventually all of us
will be interoperable across chains
because the bridges will come, the major bridges.
It's just going to take time.
It's just going to take time.
I wanted to chime in about the nature of products and basically every token was a utility token in some way.
There might have been some social assets, but almost everything that did really well in 2017 and 2016 on Ethereum, they were selling something.
They were saying, hey, here's the shares for our cool thing that we're building and it's going to be great.
You know, I think that that doesn't match with Bitcoin culture, right?
Like, I'm so glad that it doesn't. But at the same time, there is some, you know, interesting value and, you know, value propositions being assigned to Bitcoin assets and products.
think that, you know, in Solana, we also see this a little bit where there's some, you
know, meme coins and then like maybe less than 1% of that total volume would also be
shown as like utility assets or, you know, projects trying to accomplish something with
a product.
But like just to name very briefly, like, you know, Tiny Vikings, BeatBlocks, Zbit, you
know, there's a number of different products that are floating around that really understand
that Bitcoiners are attached to their sats and that sats are not just pennies.
You know, they have a history.
They have, you know, they have provenance built in.
Right.
So I think that it's a really good thing that we've sort of started with the memes because in the past we started with the utility and that led to this sort of vacuum where memes were very, very comfortable.
But now that we've kind of started with the memes and there is social phi and there's communities building up around runes, that leaves a great power vacuum for people to bring their value propositions to runes and ordinals and alkanes and other assets.
So I think we'll continue to see more of these value projects, but they're drawing from communities of social coins.
And I think that's a really good mix for reputation when you look at how Bitcoin and Ethereum are different.
reputation when you look at how Bitcoin and Ethereum are different.
Yeah, thank you, Sheldon.
And thank you for all your wonderful speech.
And I think it's time for us to launch the next round.
It's the Q&A round.
If you got any questions or if you have anything to say, just raise your hand and share with us.
It seems like we already started since you guys are talking to each other already.
It's okay.
Just raise your hand and share with us if you've got anything.
Yeah, Sheldon.
I frequently describe myself as the engineer who talks too much, so no problem.
I'll speak on this for one second.
I wanted to ask for opinions on stablecoins because I think that we've been gradually moving towards stablecoins in runes and other Bitcoin assets for a while.
I think there's two stablecoin products on BRC20.
Maybe there's more.
But I think that stablecoin has an authority problem.
By default, a stablecoin has to be issued by somebody,
and that person is either dealing with fiat money or securing some Bitcoin.
So I wonder what you guys see as the future of stablecoin in BTCFi
because, you know, dynamically changing the total token supply,
say like deleting some tether because the dollars were redeemed
from the tether Cayman Islands Bank.
Like this is not possible for runes, right?
Once you create the supply, that's the amount.
You know, can you burn some? Yes. Can you create new after the supply is already, you know, established and
the metadata is already on chain? No. So I wonder what you guys are seeing and thinking about for
stable coins, because we're very, very interested in arbitrage and, you know, stable coin, stable
coin pairs on Bitcoin assets. It's, you know,-and-coming need, but also full of challenges.
I think initially, for us, as a market, as a trading place for the meme tokens,
the need for it is not as much as it has been in other ecosystem
because you're in the Bitcoin ecosystem because you know what Bitcoin is.
People gravitate towards holding on to Bitcoin.
So yeah, if you're trading mean tokens against Bitcoin, you're making Bitcoin from it, then you're happy to hold it.
making bitcoin from it then you're happy to hold it and you uh like sherry mentioned like people
hold for long-term uh profits in this space so yeah so the meeport is not as much but of course
we've seen more and more teams uh doing it and it seems uh great especially since the market has been kind of down and it's been kind of bearish lately but
nah yeah we've been talking to many teams uh lately of course whether it's loans with uh
stable coins from other ecosystem or it's or it's they trying to bring that simple coin into
They trying to bring that stablecoin into the Bitcoin net system.
We've seen more and more teams do it.
And we saw some, I would say, not as serious as stablecoin pairs on DoSWAP doing well as well,
because even like the promise of this asset being tied to dollar is sexy to someone.
So people will begin doing arbitrage on it
or cash out when they feel like to.
So yeah, it's definitely there, the need,
but it's not as much as it has been in other ecosystem,
but it's a opportunity for everyone.
It's a good thing.
I think, sorry, did I cut you off Sheldon?
No, no, no, please go ahead, Norbert.
I think it's interesting like with the pegging mechanism
itself, like what you said,
like there are definitely some more fiat collateralized one,
but also like crypto collateralized, but some
algorithmic one.
So I think what makes it interesting, like what you said with the BRC 21,
uh, I think it was stable, like stably USD or what was the name of it?
Like it's definitely one-to-one, uh, to us dollar, but I don't like, I
think the biggest challenges itself of introducing more stables is, how should I say, I'm not trying to critique it, but sometimes I feel like it's much, much easier for some of the institutions to actually offer it because you do need to have liquidity.
Because you do need to have liquidity.
So some of the liquidity issues that stable coins has faced in the past,
like getting de-packed, I think they just simply don't have the reserve.
So if that one could be built up and minimizing the actual centralization risk,
or again, relying on one single um, looking at the regulatory aspect, how the U S is pushing it and how it's
definitely the, the biggest agenda for 2025 for them to
achieve it.
Um, it's definitely has a place, but I think it's like not sure
how the growing adoption itself is going to come from.
So I know like it definitely cause the challenges, like maybe if you could sort it out within
the ecosystem first with runes and I think once we are able to like sort that one out
we could see some more sophisticated use case for it first or after that. Thank you all for your wonderful sharing.
And I have a silly question to Sherry.
So I think Mimicoins have so many adorable symbols.
Do you have any funny stories about them?
Honestly, I don't. I mean, well, we do. I think so. Here's the thing. I have to say, I work a lot in the Stacks community lately.
So some of the stuff that I saw, like, there's always, I think, not adorable things, but funny things like fart coin that just get a lot of traction. I always tell people, you are more likely to raise a lot of money in a meme coin that's funny and just completely silly and ridiculous versus trying to do something good
in the world like save tigers, which is so sad that this is like the behavior of crypto but like it's true right
I don't know I'm curious what others think um because people come to me they're like oh we
want to launch a token to you know do something so like for social impact and I'm like well
you'll make more money if you launch something funny like fart coin uh but this is where we are
i'll give a shout out to um the giving block those guys have been pretty good at you know
connecting a like more traditional uh social good uh you entity, whether they're American or not. And then, you know,
helping a crypto raise kind of get sent to that organization. I think that makes a lot of sense.
Like the way that most governments have built up social good in entities is like based on tax
benefit or some other like legally enshrined status right so even if the the social value was
a little bit more um ethical there there would be a uh you know um a still a pretty like steep
incline to say hey you know i could get like a 30 tax break versus hey i could do this the
the transparent you know public blockchain kind of way So I think that you're right that you could, you know, still do these kinds of things.
And also it's, you know, it's a little bit disheartening sometimes to watch Fart Poopoo PP coin go to the moon
and, you know, little coin that was designed to raise funds for a small, you know, animal shelter or something like that to not be observed. But I think we might see more
of that in the future where Fartcoin needs some social good. Fartcoin needs some, you know,
let's say reputable history, right? If there's too much fart in Fartcoin, then it's just not
able to reach Goldman Sachs, right? So maybe Fartcoin should donate some of their token supply
to somebody like the Giving Block and they could liquidate that and make it more value and social good.
I'm just thinking out loud here because I also see and feel the same.
But I think this is usually the flywheel, right?
It has to come with the mutual benefit.
So when the meme coin really, really needs that traditional social benefit, then hey, burn some of your supply or sell some of your supply, bro. I could see it.
the hottest meme coin on .swap right now, which is magic and money.
MIM is the trigger.
You know, since we tweeted the growth it's had yesterday, I think it kind of almost doubled its TV on .swap.
And I think that's also another part of meme coin, which is the community.
You know, you you came because of the the stupid the silly means then
you stayed for the friends that you made along the way and that's also part of part of the
experience here in this space yeah i just want to give it a shout out
That's amazing.
Yeah, a tweet can make a big influence, a big shout out to Magic Internet Money.
So I think it's time for us to end space today.
Thank you all for the amazing discussion today.
We believe that there will be more new things happen in the future, and we will continue to build what we are building.
And be sure to follow .swap, follow Sheldon, Omity, and Nobert, Newbit, and Shari and Vedder for the latest BTC insights and updates.
And see you guys at the next space.
Happy anniversary.
Happy birthday, Runes. Happy anniversary, happy birthday Runes.
Thank you guys.
Thank you all, thank you all.
Bye bye.
Bye bye, thank you all for coming. Thank you.
