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RWAs - An Easy Investment?
Recorded: June 26, 2025 Duration: 1:06:19Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion on the future of investing, panelists explored the growing accessibility of real-world assets (RWAs) through blockchain technology, emphasizing trends towards democratizing investment opportunities and the importance of partnerships and funding in driving innovation. The conversation highlighted the dual goals of appealing to both retail and institutional investors, showcasing a significant shift in the crypto landscape.
Full Transcription
Thank you. you
you know it's really so nice for uh twitter spaces to uh to give a 2fa on accepting the co-host invite because when someone invites you and it pops up and you accept it right away
it pops up again at the bottom and you have to press that intercept it again uh they're like
just to make sure just so you it feels like um what is it it feels like when you're sitting in the emergency seat on the airplane,
and they come up to you and be like,
in the case of an emergency, you're responsible for all of our lives.
And everyone's like, okay, just because I get more room and more leg room over here.
And we're all just sitting there like, yeah, that's totally fine.
So yeah, real good stuff.
All right.
On that note, on that note, I will be too F-ing through this music.
And I will be asking you guys to go ahead and go bottom right-hand corner, repost, comment, and bookmark.
If you haven't already, comment any questions you have, any thoughts you have.
If you're listening, ask any question you want.
I can't promise I'm going to ask every single one, but I will get to them, I promise.
So, if you haven't already, let's go ahead and get that out of the way.
And then we're going to go ahead and play a quick little song.
And we're going to get it going.
I'm just trying to think of which song I want to play, though.
It's a lot of pressure.
I'm just kidding.
All right, let's play it in.お疲れ様ですプリン パンパンプリン パンパンプ 가려다보는 가족, 동반다치 고환석, 대기, 다치 준비가 오래를 막아줬으면 이래
교과시절이나 이번
당신이나의 좀 파트넘만 지내야
가가미로 가가미로 다해줘
불어벤스, 안도 뺏어게
나만 믿어
맘을 길을 덕고만
이럴 엣지, 불아일 시간
너 생긴 브리밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤밤�ブリンバンバンブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブリンバンブン ブラー1番上
A.A.A. 俺のままでいるだけで ジョンフレックス
A.A.A. 誰もこっちが サムネナイ
DONTES
A.A.A. 俺のままでいるだけで ジョンフレックス
いるだけ大丈夫フレッグ エイペイ 誰もこっちは覚ませない
A.A.A. 誰もこっちが サムネナイ
DONTES
いやいやいや 学歴もない 善化もない余裕で
プリンプリン この存在時代が文化財なのびそ
プリンプリン 呼吸者は変える免許はない 愛者
プリンプリン 全国各地売らす逸品 このペロがプリンプリン
パレットならまた 関西だまり 生身のことだんま
音楽幸運処理の女神 こういうのさまた
バングみたいねえ カールドまんまで張り合いてしまってるまんか
圧倒的力 この頭と口から
これからだったるわ 履いてない この面に傷もついてない
繰り返しやらかしてくためじっかい 火ついねえ リボキサムシワ
プレンバンバンブレンバンバンブレンバンブン
俺のままでブリッシュとバラして バラするためにボウしてきたり
鏡よ鏡応えちゃって Hey good morning everybody welcome to the kiwi space we are here every single thursday we just like to
switch it up sometimes including doing spaces streams you know um sometimes streams with panels
sometimes stream with just me and gabriel just uh going back and forth you know um we love to give
tips on how to turn the max uh amount of credit card points for your
credit no i'm just kidding we don't do that we talk about kiwi obviously among other things
in the landscape and you know again uh really fun so again please make sure you're giving a follow
to kiwi and to the rest of the of the speakers up here that have taken time out of the day
uh weeks in advance just to be here for this so
i'm really looking forward to getting into this normally you know we do get it we do check in and
we do get into discussion but i do want to set the tone a little bit uh on the sense of you know
looking at uh discussing rwas right and then we're gonna go ahead and check in uh so just kind of real quick uh rwa's real
world assets it kind of it has this um has this hook to it where there's a lot there's a lot more
discussed than just what seems at the surface right uh for me personally it clicked for me when
people use these sample pokemon cards and you know getting, getting them graded and so on and so forth
and having that kind of like storage and vice versa and having that use case happen through NFTs
or, you know, blockchain technology.
And for others, it might be real estate and being able to, you know,
have fractionalized real estate of a house to owners that want to buy but can't quite afford
the whole house, right? And those are just a couple of examples that personally clicked it
for me when I was learning about RWAs as well. And then we're going to go a little bit of a step
further when we look at the investing the the investing side of things right what
what makes it accessible what does it even mean to make it accessible who's even being left out
in the first place right and these are you know kind of like we always ask like oh how are we
going to make it more accessible and it's kind of like what are we doing this for who we do who who
who's the audience here right we we always say we want to go institutional.
And at the same time, we want to make it accessible to everyone.
Can we have both?
Can we have our cake and eat it too?
Or are they just not mutually exclusive?
And so anyway, that's kind of the discussion.
Kind of like a quick little brief overview of what we're looking at today.
But before we even get into that, I want to check in with everybody see how everybody's doing
i got coffee i forgot my water but that's okay i'm not too worried i i chugged a bunch of water
right before i had my coffee so we doing all right but gabriel my man let's check it with you how we
doing today what's going on doing very good sansa how are you doing can't complain can't complain i got to sleep in
today so i'm doing all right amazing amazing it's weird to not see your face so used to the live
streams i know we we've been doing we've been doing those a lot more so it's like it makes
you realize how much space is with the live social audio. It's that different, slightly different vibe, right?
Yeah, 100%.
But we're very excited about the topic today.
So, yeah, thank you to the speakers.
Thank you to the audience for being here.
And I hope we have an exciting conversation.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I, you know, and we'll probably bring this up on our stream next time,
you know, about our WAs, right?
But I want to kind of take this over to,
you know, I'm going to go through on my,
the order on my screen in terms of the panel,
starting with JC.
JC, my man from Gloria AI.
How are you doing today?
GM, GM.
What's up, Sansa?
Thanks for having me on.
Gabriel, Qivi, thanks for inviting me.
Good to be on the panel.
I'm doing good.
I'm in New York.
I was just at a couple events for permissionless yesterday in the city.
It was really hot. i think like 103 degrees i
wasn't super excited about commuting around in in brooklyn but uh just glad that it's uh you know
back to normal weather today it's like in the 80s 70s 80s so uh i'm doing good man
yeah it's super cloudy.
It's absolutely disgusting, but everyone's never been happier
because it actually feels nice, like, in terms of when we go outside.
You know, I don't feel like I need to take a shower immediately after 30 seconds.
So, yeah, I was actually in the city as well yesterday,
as well as i will be tonight
i'm i'm heading out to uh bing bong tonight as well to to be you know uh seeing and meeting
around with some people but i i do like how um i mean from what i've observed so far is how much
more calm it is this year right uh last year and the year before were a little chaotic when it came to the conferences, the side events
you had three to five side events
conflicting with each other
and you were just constantly getting in an Uber
to get to the next thing
I'm glad you were able to make it around Brooklyn
without melting
it was definitely um
less uh less kind of crowded we um i was uh i was at an event where i had to do a panel and then um
we were kind of hosting a networking event in the evening uh the quality was good uh less people but
the quality was was was good so I can't complain.
Yeah, and I think that's the important thing, right?
It's something that we don't often think about until it happens.
So I'm glad it's happening this year.
Hopefully people see the quality is good,
and we can try and bring that back for the years to come.
And so let's keep this moving.
T-Vice, you're up next on my screen how we doing today hello everyone good morning good afternoon or good night wherever you are i am doing great
this is eduardo from the future here speaking in the present but come on let's face it we are in
the future uh shout out for the teorize for the rise ambassadors in the house i see uncle ron no futuro. Um abraço aos ambassadores do T-RISE na casa. Eu vi o Sr. Ron sempre presente
nos espaços. Obrigado, cara. É muito energético ver você na casa. Você mencionou antes,
podemos ter ambos os institucionais e acesso para todos? Sim, eu acho que sim, mas and access for everyone yeah I think so I think so but there might be some prioritization there
at least the way that we do it on the T-Rise platform is that the the rise holders they
have priority for deals and yeah RWA it's not as exciting as NFTs right because come on
you don't want to talk, you can tokenize anything,
but I don't believe in that. I think we should tokenize only quality stuff. And if you're talking
real estate, for example, it's not as exciting. I don't say it's a stable asset class, it's a
resilient asset class. And yeah, not as exciting as NFTs, but it's serious and right now it's it exists like
there are multiple tokenization ventures out there t-rise is doing one of them right now
americans can go to the t-rise platform register and invest in a new construction in canada so
yeah new construction is not an existing property. There is more opportunity for returns in there.
But, yeah, RWA is an easy investment.
I have my take on it.
I will let you host, Ossanza.
I mean, you can host.
I don't mind.
I could use it now.
No, I'm just kidding.
No, look, in all seriousness, I love is eduardo from the future speaking in
the present and then i get it i get a get a tag and your name is literally eduardo from the future
i love that uh but i but i speaking of real quick if you guys haven't already i just also noticed
that there's a plus sign at the bottom of my hand corner which uh which is also likely because this was started from laptop. So I've taken the liberty here of pinning the Kiwi Spaces tweet
that was posted yesterday to the Jumbotron,
so you guys can repost that.
So just go straight to the Jumbotron on top of our heads there
and then go ahead and repost through that.
But it's a good take.
I'm 35, and I think one of the biggest things
that I've noticed growing up
and seeing how people
move, trade,
invest, they almost
always invest into the really boring
shit, and that's okay.
That's usually the stuff that's successful.
Or at least that's what I feel
like is the other stuff, the sexy
stuff, the sirens calling you over you know what they say eh easy come easy go
there you go there you go oh man i love that this is gonna be a great talk i'm i'm really excited
for this uh we got two more people checking with and then we're gonna go ahead and kick it off for
real um we got ascar from uh fairside i hope i didn't butcher your name how you doing today fam no it's
perfect it's ascar ass and car for those who will not remember um yeah i'm from fairside um i'm doing
good i'll be honest i thought this was space was like two hours later and i woke up 30 minutes
before and i was like okay beautiful um i'm in chicago right
now um i someone sent me the wrong city they told me nft nyc was was nft chicago but whatever i'm
here now um anyways though i'm looking forward for the space um have some opinions on rwas some
maybe not a lot but i'm excited to chat
i i can't even imagine yeah i'm flying chicago for an nft conference i'll see you guys there there's a conference in chicago is is that is that can someone check the papers is that right
do we have that right do we do yeah i have any excited to do what are you guys special in no
no no no that's just gabriel. He's sponsoring like 50 people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, cool.
Yeah, no, look.
I absolutely love that.
I love that.
That is, you just know at some point in time, somewhere, somehow, that has actually happened.
Someone got on a plane and flew to where they thought they were going and they went to a
completely different place um but now look we got we got one more person and then we're going to
talk about why rwa can help prevent you from going to the wrong city for an nft conference
onino how are we doing today how are you hello hello i love the energy. Yeah, I'm quite great.
Other than as I'm calling from Germany, we have a few weeks right now
where Germany feels like Dubai when you go outside just because we're not used to it.
So I hope my ventilator in the background is not too loud as naturally we don't have AC in Germany.
So I'm ready for a shower after the space, but looking forward and happy to be here and looking
forward to a great discussion I love it yes I've been told I have golden retriever energy
and I usually love to give my my smear my spiel about how I feel like that's a backhanded compliment
because you know I look at golden retriever I'm like what a what a smuck that thing is goofy as hell you know it can't stand still if it tried and then
i got someone else coming over to me be like you have golden retriever energy and i'm just like
thank you but also i feel insulted no but in all seriousness in all seriousness um
we're we're to have a great discussion
today. We had TVIC
kind of setting the tone a little
bit on the question, right? The opening
question, which is, when we
say making investing
accessible, what
does that actually mean to you? And
if it's not already
accessible, in your opinion,
then who exactly is being left out as of today?
Let's start there.
And then we're going to go around.
We got Asgard with his hand up first.
Asgard from Chicago.
How are we doing today?
What do you got?
Yeah, it's a good question.
I think the biggest perk of crypto at the end of the day
is that it allows anyone from anywhere to invest in any asset.
And before that, before crypto came online, you didn't have that ability, right?
U.S. financial markets were restricted to U.S. individuals and certain people within the U.S.
and then also other people around the world who had some credentials and the same thing for every other market.
And liquidity was just actually restricted. And and naturally we believe that was a good thing
right like naturally we thought it was like it's fine and safe but i think the biggest example of
this that has shown how powerful that web 2 and web 3 people can all over the world invest in one
class is polymarket right polymarket did a great job of integrating a Web2 front end
and then a Web3 back end.
And now all of a sudden they unlocked global liquidity
for the world to trade on the biggest kind of news events
or any sort of event.
And now you have global liquidity being unlocked.
And more importantly, you have a new form of truth.
Whether or not it's better or worse,
it's a new form of truth that was only unlocked by global liquidity, right? Because during the
whole US election, you had a huge French millionaire taking in data from polls about
neighbor polls that were not being used in other traditional polls and using that to basically bet
against traditional polls so now
because you unlock global liquidity you unlock kind of a new base of knowledge for individuals
around the world and they can actually influence the price of an asset in my opinion with more depth
i love that especially especially when you realize that it's a global infrastructure and not just a national one, right?
Granted, we could fall under the category of a national one, but it's never been easier to have connectivity around the world as opposed to say, you know, quick example uh i have venmo in the states but uh you know gabriel doesn't have venmo because
it's not really that popular over in europe right they have something else that we don't have and so
vice versa like so like i think i think when you have something like rwh possibly bring it bring
bring possibly being able to make that a lot easier it's it'll never have been easier for the the global equity to be
unlocked like you were mentioning um device you were you were the next one with your hand up what
are you thinking um imagine you're playing golf with some dude and there's a new dude that comes
out that day and then he's there and then he tells you about this new construction of, I don't know, a hospital or, yeah, like a residential unit.
And you're like, oh, that sounds very interesting.
And he was like, yeah, you can invest in it if you want.
AAA risk rating, risk profile,
and yeah, only for accredited investors
or something like that.
And you're like, wow, amazing.
Yeah, I'm in.
Other than that,
how do you get into these kinds of deals?
Like, seriously, I don't really know.
Maybe you want to do that with your friends too. You have some friends and say, hey, let's build something here. And you're like, seriously, I don't really know. Maybe you want to do that with your friends, too.
You have some friends and, hey, let's build something here.
And you're like, OK, but shit, man, it's really hard.
The paperwork, the bureaucracy, that's horrible.
We can't have fractionalized.
We can't have split investment into something.
We can't get out of the university and, like, let's buy something together.
But that's going to be extremely hard.
And what if someone wants to quit?
Or what if it's four brothers and sisters and they're life givers, they die.
And then they get an apartment for our building.
And they're like, holy shit.
Now two of them want to skip it.
Two of them want to sell it.
Wow.
What a nightmare.
I'm pretty sure the lawyers are going to get
20 at least on that story so so i think this is what i'm talking about when when i mean easy
access you can just go right now like i said go to the t-rise platform and you can invest in a
piece of new construction real estate very low risk, extremely quality project, like enforced, not enforced, enriched
by AI technology to risk manage it to, okay, do you think there's going to be a high or
low occupancy rate?
What's the risk of this?
The rent going down, the rent going up.
Yeah, it's enhanced by decentralized ai uh so this is access
to me this is easy access you click a few buttons we are in the future like i keep saying it like
nowadays you can keep you can touch a few buttons and boom a car appears in front of you
and that's an uber maybe in the future the near future is going to be a self-driving car
uh nowadays you can walk in front of a place
and you're like i want to go there and then you open airbnb or some other platform like that and
then you you do you touch a few buttons and all of a sudden you can walk in and it's your for it's
yours for the week or it's yours for the night i'm pretty sure it's uh it's it was used in chicago uh but yeah like uh that's access it's
within the the touch of a few buttons maybe in the near future you have to talk to an ai agent
and you say hey this building is really nice i want to invest in it and say oh they say oh yeah
there are tokens for sale this This is a tokenized asset.
How much do you want to place?
500,000?
5,500?
Yeah, it's easy to access.
It's right there.
Our grandmothers, they can use it.
Your grandmother is very welcome in the T-Rise platform.
That's what I think about access.
On top of that, you press the button,
you can get a feast fit for a king
and a village
as well, just
delivered straight to your house.
I agree.
I think it's been gradual,
but I think up until this point,
we've also have
I keep saying this
and anyone who's followed
me from space to space, I'm sorry that you keep
hearing this, but social media is only
25 years old, but AI
is speeding up
the progress and the
process of all that to be
so much more impactful and effective
at the end of the day, so it's kind of like
you know, and
just all around in general
innovation as well right uh you again you press a couple buttons all of a sudden you can be you
can you can have ownership in whatever right depending on the research that you're doing
and what you're looking to get into um and so we're we're gonna go ahead and keep going around
i think jc was next and then onino you had your hand up go ahead jc what are you thinking uh yeah i mean i i i kind of agree with um what asghar and t-rise
are saying um i think the biggest thing here is that it just rba really just uh removes all the
boundaries or as t-rides saying you know gives that access um you're no longer bound by location or who you know um and in many
ways even your economic status because of you know fractualization and other you know kind of
innovative means to um you know provide access uh irrespective of necessarily, you know, whether you have a million dollars to invest or a hundred dollars or even ten dollars.
Right. So that kind of lowering boundaries, both from a physical and economic position, I think is really disruptive.
I spent, before I got into Web3, maybe eight years, nine years ago, I was working in Southeast Asia, building out a bunch of different businesses in AdTech and Martech.
and other places in Indonesia.
And there were just so many people there.
And I think globally as well in many emerging countries
that were like the unbanked, right?
I think there's like almost 2 billion people
that are unbanked.
But if you have a mobile phone
or if you have a laptop
and an internet connection,
now you can have access to things that previously,
you know, was only available to those in first world countries
that had, you know, an account with Chase
or had a certain level of economic status
that only then were afforded these opportunities.
But those boundaries have been removed because of, you know, these, you know, opportunities
that RWA afford.
So I really think it definitely makes investing more accessible across the board.
Yeah, and it is funny how much we take it for granted a little bit right like i
i you know we have laptops that are getting cheaper and you know affordable but at the same
time that's the production of it might not just be available everywhere for for those people to
to ask us right uh but real quick quick, Onino, go ahead.
You had your hand up, I'm gonna take it over to you
and then Askar, I'm coming to you right after
and then we're gonna go ahead
and take it over to the next question.
Onino, what do you got?
Yeah, I completely agree with kind of everything
that was said before.
I believe when we look at true accessibility,
how I would personally call it,
we have to look at how, for example,
private equity markets are functioning right now and they're kind of, for simplicity, four
pillars you can say. So one is, of course, the information, like markets have always
functioned on information asymmetry, and that is something that has to be solved. So any
retail users can access the same level of information and break it down into a format that is understandable to them.
This is something that RWA's themselves cannot solve, but something that can be solved by incorporating AI reports or reports built through AI to make it understandable.
The second thing is, of course course accessibility of deal flow if you are a high net worth individual
you have no problem in finding the right deal flow and getting into deals that generate
returns that are really far from what the average market makes on a yearly basis but this is not
just not possible for a normal retail user so that's basically the burden of a platform of an
rwa platform to
curate these deals, break them down and fractionalize them so they make them
investable and accessible to the average retail person. Bringing me to a third point, which is
already mentioned, these high volume deals that then generate a lot of yield are just not
accessible for your average person working at the bakery that's where the fractionalization
comes in and the last part is the standardization in terms of these deals come as a high cost of
transactions most of the time and if we can now build a standardized framework around it so we can
step by step break down the transactionary cost and through blockchain make it even more efficient we can offer these deals at a much lower cost per transaction and also at a much
um better margin for anyone that is the broker so and essentially just eliminate any broker that
makes uh their money from the transaction through technology which is the blockchain. So we can eliminate these four pillars one by one by combining tokenization with AI.
And if we are able to tackle all of them, we basically arrive at true accessibility to anyone.
But it's still a long way to go, in my opinion.
As right now, we're mainly solving fractionalization and breaking down high-volume deals
into lower-volume particles.
Quick little follow-up.
Is it more on the end of that
there's just not a smooth enough
front-end product?
Because this is what I've noticed a lot.
When it comes to anything
web3 native and generally speaking it's almost always a divided process right which is you know
you go get your wallet you got to make sure you have the crypto in there and then on top of that
you got to connect it to the website you probably have to do some other connection somehow some way
because it's something else they need to track in order to get you know so and so and so and then you know it's basically four or five six seven clicks give or take some right
um and and and to me i always think that a divided process is a a broken process right and so
is it really more of just mainstreaming or streamlining it better so that it's the equivalent of like a Web2 product
as opposed to, we're Web3 native,
so you should like us, right?
Or is it justified because of the potential rewards
from what you could gather from it?
Does that make sense?
I want to throw that follow-up question real real quick back your way on you know go ahead well um actually good question because accessibility is not only kind of
being able to invest somewhere but also making it as simple as possible like honestly speaking connecting a wallet and going through the steps
you just mentioned we deem it as successful because at the core every one of us crypto
natives and users of crypto and having our own self-hosted wallets we are just a fraction of
the overall population like ask your grandma she would much likely not use a self-hosted wallet because she
has a big problem even remembering her password to the email so we definitely have to solve that
usability border too to make it truly accessible so we have to get to a point where blockchain is
just the tech in the background and not the main selling point so make it as simple as possible
where anyone can actually use it and then we can make it truly accessible also from the user endpoint
these are my few cents yeah i love it i love it i i it's just something that you know i feel like
it's a common discussion but it's not always a common discussion as to what it pertains to right
it's i think everyone agrees there needs to be a smooth interface in the first place
for people to even be drawn in.
But that's a little bit more of a, I feel like more of an onboarding discussion, right?
As opposed to the, which does pertain to this, right?
But Askar, my bad.
I just had a quick follow-up question.
So I'm going to throw it back over to you.
What are you thinking? no no no worries um i actually wanted to throw a question
in the chat um and you know please answer this sansa or anyone else um and i want to challenge
the idea a little bit about rwa's unlocking global liquidity because at the end of the day
unlocking global liquidity because at the end of the day, regulations do exist at times. And I know
that's the cursed R word in this space, but regulations do exist at times because they are
genuinely helpful, right? They do prevent malicious actors from taking advantage, doing things that
you don't want them to do in certain markets, manipulating them, having staked interest that for malicious actors that you don't want them to have. So what I'm trying to get at is that
in crypto, when we first started to unlock global liquidity, we start to create the assets at first
that people were investing in. And there was maybe no such stakes, no such high stakes. But let's say that you have, like T. Riz was saying, an hospital that can be
invested in by anyone around the world. Should anyone around the world from any country invest
in, let's say, US real estate or US buildings, things that currently have many regulations for
foreign entities to invest. Should anyone have global
liquidity to invest in this? Do you want whatever country you live in any foreign investor to buy up
as much, um, equity in these assets as possible? That's kind of my challenge to the chat. Like,
I wonder what people's thoughts are on, on treading the lines on assets that are a little
bit more high risk or high stake yeah i actually i love
that thought and i my my mind immediately goes to how and gabriel i saw you threw your hand up so i'm
gonna take it over here in a second i my mind immediately goes to how when when it comes to
innovation like that right something new that's coming onto the scene that not a lot of people are familiar with. More often than not, there's always a huge lag of not just ethics, but regulations in
general, right?
So there's always this huge lag of both ethic and regulation guidelines for anyone to follow
because they put out a product and they hope that it works.
They don't know if it works.
And so it's hard to be proactive on that front so it's like one of these things where they it i feel that it has to
unfold for us to understand how that looks but i think i think like you said it's it's it's a fine
line uh but gabriel go ahead you had your hand up i want to throw it over to you what do you think
about it um i think it's a really good point because a tennis-related tech is completely global
and you can use it wherever you are.
But you still have regulations and the whole law system that then prevents you
to actually use the tech from a certain global level.
I mean, and I just checked it out now on Google.
Basically, how is real estate in terms, just to give a simple example.
And there you have literally restrictions and even certain quotas, how many, right? And you can give the whole world the opportunity to participate in the,
let's say, value appreciation of the real estate,
in the yield that it can bring you and so on.
But then at the end of the day, you still have a legal system
that tells you, no, that doesn't work.
If you offer it to Swiss people, fine,
but you can't offer it outside of Switzerland.
So I think that's the, if you look a bit more high level, that's actually the part
that is more difficult to solve.
But in general, RWA is for sure give, let's say, the possibility.
From my perspective, it's more from a cost point of view.
It just reduces administrative costs so much to actually do the frictionalization.
And that's why it actually
unlocks much more liquidity but you still have a legal system that then prevents you
to do everything you want to do with it.
Well said.
Well said.
T-Raj, you had your hand up as well.
What are you thinking?
Yeah, I like a challenge.
So it was just a challenge to answer this.
Is it good to have global liquidity?
Is it good to have foreign money coming into your country
so people can own equity on real estate?
My take on it is that it's nuanced
and depends on your perspective.
From my perspective, there's a housing crisis in the G20.
There is not enough housing for everyone. Da minha perspectiva, há uma crise de casa no G20. Não há mais de casa para todos. E a renta é muito alta.
E é uma necessidade básica, certo?
É uma necessidade fundamental humana de ter shelter,
ter comida, ter água.
E é meio complicado.
Podemos entrar em uma discussão filosófica sobre o capitalismo e como funciona, mas não importa. A realidade é and it's kind of complicated we can get into a very philosophical discussion about capitalism
and how it works but it doesn't matter the the reality is rent is is getting higher and people
are having a hard time paying for their shelters there is no not enough housing there needs to be
more housing out there uh how do you do how do Well, you build stuff. But to build stuff, you have to have it financed.
So, yeah, it's not T-Rise, it's T-Rise. So it means token raising. So you can raise through tokens.
So yeah, tokenization is wrong. It's also done through the RISE token. There token out there it's called the rise token this is not financial advice but it can give you uh indirect exposition to all of this
because when asset owners they want to tokenize uh something they they are forced this is how this is
how we deal with them we we force them to buy and lock RISE token.
So if they're going to raise capital to build new construction and ultimately contribute to solving the housing crisis,
there you go.
You can invest into the RISE token.
But if you're eligible,
according to the regulations of each deal,
of each construction project,
you can also directly invest into this project
in whatever it is.
A more resilient asset class.
Like you said earlier, Sanza,
the wealthy people, the smart money,
they're not looking to make a quick 10x.
They're looking to have a resilient asset
that will accrue value over time
and not make them lose money.
Because, yeah, easy easy come easy go but
at the same time looking at from another perspective i think also this housing crisis is partially
caused by foreign investment money uh i am brazilian i don't really care about the heat
wave i love it i i wish it was here for longer but but I live in Canada right now. And I hear that there is this big problem here.
It's one of the G20 countries, but there is many foreign investors that would buy real estate here and not do anything with it.
Literally not live in there, not rent it, just buy and hold it for speculation.
And meanwhile, people, they are going into the streets because there's housing
is missing around here it's it's crazy it's very crazy especially when you consider that canada is
a huge country and has not that big of a population so wow there's so much space well but the land all
the land is owned but yeah so tokenization can allow these foreign investors to invest into a piece of real estate
that they don't need to care so that the reason why they don't rent it they the reason why they
don't work they just keep it there so okay let's keep it preserved let's keep it new let's not rent
it for anyone i'm also going to be living in the other side of the world so i don't want to come
here because the tenant has a problem with the AC. Now with tokenization, like the Vision87,
the project that we tokenized here that you can invest
if you're an American investor, you don't need to care.
There's a specialized company that manages the asset
that will find someone to clean the pool if there's a pool,
that will find tenants if there is an apartment,
there's an unit that is not occupied.
It's beautiful.
I think tokenization is beautiful.
Wow.
Even if you're a tenant,
you can invest in the asset where you live
if it's tokenized.
Over time, you will not have to pay the rent.
You will receive dividends that offset your rent.
So, yeah.
If you challenge me with this,
I'm gonna poke you, I'm gonna fight you
with the tokenization sword,
and be violent about it saying, yeah, it's good.
It can allow projects to be financed.
And T-RISE can help you raise true tokens.
Right now, this is live. And if you can't invest into
the direct access asset because you're not eligible, well, there's a RISE token and this
is not financial advice, but this exists and it also powers decentralized AI that
breaks data silos and enables institutions to monetize their private data it's beautiful you know i he
said tvs and i was like i'm i'm not correcting that because he's saying he you got riz you know
and so like why correct uh you know and a title is it right is it wait sorry no no no no you could
keep it tvs you know i think i think iRiz. I think that really drives it home.
That's a good rapper name. I would go with T-Riz.
T-Riz in the house.
Yeah, I'm going to stop myself before I get
even more cursed. T-Riz, you drop a new token.
You know, that's perfect.
No, but I...
Well, before I take it over
to the next thing, because I know we got...
We still have a good amount of time. We also have JC and Anino with their hand up. um well before before i take it over to the next thing because i know we got we we actually we still
have a good amount of time we also have jc and onino with their hand up um let's let's go ahead
and go onino and then jc i'm gonna take it over to you out there onino what do you got
um yeah i believe it's a kind of a difficult question in terms of there is no one 100 correct
answer it's just a direction and more of a set of belief where you want to work towards in making any investment class accessible everywhere, essentially.
Of course, regulation, the sole purpose of regulation and how it started is just to protect the consumer at the end of the day.
So we always have to work in the realm of regulation and also we have to work in the realm of making things as safe as possible for the end user, even if it's as much as we pinpoint and describe every risk behind any asset. knowledge is not high enough to be classified for it he should be able to do it and that is kind of
the essence of accessibility if it's his decision to do so he should be able to do it right now if i
as a i don't know not earning too much i want to go into real estate and my only option would be
investing into reads but they are basically having good returns but not the same as it would be an actual commercial leader state
or something along those lines.
So I'm a strong believer in we should be working towards that goal,
but we always should be sticking with regulation.
We should be sticking with the idea of investor security
or keeping investors safe because retail often is not able to understand
the risk management the way the big institutions do so so each platform has to kind of take on the
burden to provide some sort of risk management for that you know i'm sort of i don't know why
this keeps popping up my head and it feels worthy worthy of bringing up on the topic of speaking of regulation, more so speaking on the topic of proactive regulation.
There's two things that come to my head.
One is that there needs to be enough product with the relatively same type of innovation in order for it to occur so the the regulation can have some sort of, you know, uh, shaping mold to go after.
Right.
And then the second thing that pops up is I think about Zelle a lot.
I don't know if anyone here, I know some, I'm, I'm sure most of you know about Zelle,
uh, to some extent it's, it's like Venmo, but the, the, they always give a warning every
single time before you send anything to anyone.
And the warning is, once you send this, you will not get it back.
Benmo doesn't do, but they do it way more passively.
They're like, hey, there's a chance you don't get it back.
And it's like, there's more than just a chance.
If you send it to the wrong number, you probably are not getting it back, my good sir.
And then Zelle, which is just sort of like, I think they have the amount of around 118 million customers.
Monthly-wise, they have 69 million monthly unique users. And so
you have 69 million people understanding the risks of that, that they might send the money
to the wrong account and they very likely won't get it back, right? And so I think about that a
lot when I think about regulation, when I think about crypto, when I think about how we send funds around with wallets that are not docs or wallets that are docs at certain exchanges and so on and so forth. actually regulate this, right? How can they even start to? Because it requires so much
understanding and brainpower at the end of the day to the point where it's risky just to start
educating people on it in the first place. We can't say you can be your own bank anymore because
people get scared hearing that. They don't want to be their own bank. They can't ins you can be your own bank anymore because people get scared hearing that they don't want to
be their own bank they can't insure up to 250 000 by themselves they can't do that that their bank
can though you know and so it's it's it's something that i think we thought was a great selling point
but it's not and it ended up you know just pushing people out a little bit, some in some way,
one way or another.
but JC,
sorry,
I didn't mean to monologue right before I take it back over to you.
What do you got?
What are you thinking?
Yeah,
I mean,
all good.
I'm just thinking,
like there's,
there's a lot of nuance to this.
And I,
and I agree with a lot of the other speakers.
Um, you can't just have like, There's a lot of nuance to this, and I agree with a lot of the other speakers.
You can't just have open season on everything.
I think there's a difference between technology feature and benefit.
The technology feature here is the ability to tokenize and fractionalize and and put on chain you know uh previously like you know uh either illiquid assets or assets that are you know hard
to um you know gain access to like those like technology features but then there's the benefit
side you know like the ability for people to access investments and, you know, lowering economic barriers to,
you know, access these investable instruments. You know, you need regulation to protect,
you know, for a certain level of consumer protection, you know, where that line is drawn,
I think is where like a lot of the debate is. Some countries are overly regulated.
Some countries maybe don't have enough regulation.
But you have to have it.
And a lot of it needs to be controlled,
has to be controlled on the side of the issuer,
on the side of the platform,
because there is no better way to gatekeep
unless you kind of have to start at the source.
So I think I agree
with most of the other speakers. It's nuanced. You know, I personally believe that there needs
to be a certain level of regulation. Otherwise, you may just end up resetting the clock. You know,
if there's too many scams, if there's, you know, not enough protections or, you protections or you put up an instrument for investment, but it's to the negative advantage of maybe a local population.
But then foreign investors kind of take advantage of it and kind of ruin the market for everybody else.
These are things that can and do backfire in the end may actually send you send
you backwards so that's just kind of my position on it and i i actually want to take this to
to speaking on that if we we do believe that our whs can be and will be the next evolution of
investing how would you ensure or how do we how do you think we
should ensure that they don't just serve the kind of the people that are just already savvy
but also open new doors for people who are trying to understand it and get involved in it and so on
so forth right like i feel like you know Robin Hood, for example, was a great
product that
albeit all the
controversy got a lot of people
wanting to be more
financially literate in
investing and understanding
stocks and wanting to get more
into stocks.
That's not
particularly saying what product do you think we need? I'm just kind of the stocks, right? So I, and that's not particularly, you know,
I'm not particularly saying what product do you
think we need? I'm just kind of
saying that like, I think that was an
maybe not an unexpected byproduct.
I think that was the intention all along
but just more so on the idea of
as to the effect and impact that it would
have at the end of the day, right?
I don't think anyone expected Robin
Hood to be freezing you
know games game stop buys in the middle of covid uh to the extent that people almost basically
rioted over it right like i mean that's a whole nother thing in of itself but
so and so there there's the questions i have for. Again, just I'll repeat them one more time.
If RWAs seem to be the next evolution of investing, right,
which I feel like we're all kind of understanding and pushing in that general direction as well,
how would you ensure that they don't just serve people
who are already understanding of it, right, the few,
the minority, if you will, but also open the new doors for everyday users
that are looking to get into it in general.
I'll throw this around.
I know we got like six minutes left,
so I don't want to force anyone to say anything.
Don't make me be the high school teacher
that you guys didn't want to be picked on from.
Gabriel, what do you got
um i mean honestly it might sound a bit dark but at the end of the day depends who has which agenda
so meaning that we can of course with all the good intention and faith actually propose technology
with the right features and so on to open it up to the world but at the end of the day and depending who wants what out of it um you
will be confronted with with let's say those needs and most of the people
and that's my opinion look at their pockets. Wait a second.
Sam Altman would like to have a word with you.
Sam Altman would like to have a word with you.
Somebody just interrupted me
in the middle of my speech.
Now, basically, what I want to say is
it's really depending on the agenda.
It's like you can offer
the best technology and everything,
but at the end of the day,
it's governments and state that actually then put up the regulations so that they protect,
for example, retail and so on, and the people that are less savvy. So if you ask Robinhood,
Robinhood at the end of the day, yeah, they say, hey, we want to democratize investing and all of
that, but their investors and shareholders want to see profit. How they do that profit,
they shouldn't go over the the legal system but they
should maximize it and go to the edge so it's always a bit who are you asking and who has which
agenda with which let's say wins they want to get out of it that that you actually will will see
what is possible and whatnot well said you know i it's funny that you say that because the first thing I thought of was how it was discovered that OpenAI is selling ad spots or general recommendations for when people ask about anything pertaining to their business to recommend you can pay $200 to boost your spot up on the prompts which is so
just feels like we're we're going back a little bit there you know in that instinct but
i i agree i agree what you were saying there gabriel but uh jc you got your hand up and then
onino i'm gonna take it over to you and i think from there we're gonna start uh some closing
thoughts and wrapping it up from there but But JC, what do you got?
Yeah, so, you know, my thinking on this is, and look, I'm an AI news guy.
So I'm not necessarily like an RWA expert.
But like as someone, you know, kind of providing news for the, you know, kind of the crypto community and the AI community, we cover a lot of topics,
including RWA, obviously. So I see this as something that, the things that I see,
it could apply to RWA and I think it also can apply to just DeFi in general.
I think it also can apply to just DeFi in general.
And I see it as three things, really.
You know, as it relates to any kind of financial investing, you know, new disruptive ways of financial investing, there has to be better regulatory clarity for one.
But there also needs to be better onboarding experience.
Like right now, if you want your grandmother to kind of jump in and start investing, granted, it's gotten much better over the years.
You know, but just the fact that, you know, she's got to set up a wallet or she's got to, you know, kind of have some, you know, ability to kind of navigate certain platforms and maybe possibly go through some KYC process.
Like there needs to be a better onboarding experience to lower the friction as much as possible.
Because that friction is still there.
Obviously, some platforms are better than others,
but I think across the board as a whole,
we need more simplified UI, UX, and a better year's experience.
And the final thing, I think, is education.
People just need to know what's out there, what's available to them uh how to do it um
because if people don't know about it if people not educated about this uh they may not be able
to do it so i think we need those three things in order to to take the next step jc for president
jc for president no i'm just kidding wow am i kidding uh but no um
he's gonna give sam altman a run for his money um although sam altman did just follow the uh the
ex twitter engineer that got fired 10 days before his vesting so uh that guy you know he was making
a million dollars a year i don't know if any of you caught that, but hey, that's a topic for another day.
That has nothing to do with it either, but I just thought that was super interesting.
Onino, I'll take it over to you, and then Askar, I'm taking it to you right after.
Onino, what do you got?
Yeah, I completely agree with everything I said before.
It's kind of a combination of keeping every user safe,
making a beautiful and well understandable
onboarding experience and then educating everyone that wants to listen to it and eventually that
will have its effect of spreading really quickly just look if you were looking at it 50 60 years
back not everyone knew about stocks and now everyone even in the in the early ages of school
they know that there are stocks and you can somehow
buy them and then they start looking and then they bought it by their first stock and that's the same
that will happen eventually with rwas just by for example what we are doing right now a twitter space
somebody randomly catches up and listens and then he starts thinking about even more and goes deeper
into the whole process and if we then make the onboarding as simple as possible and then he starts thinking about even more and goes deeper into the whole process. And if we then make the onboarding as simple as possible
and then transparently show everyone the risks,
the chances, and what's associated with it,
we will eventually arrive there.
But we also have to be clear that it's a long, long way to go
to make it actually mainstream.
Yeah, what do we got, like three years?
No, I'm just kidding. I feel like time has sped up so
much uh and things are going to move so much faster and regulations are going to lag even more
solely because of how much faster everything's moving uh i i told this to gabriel yes uh last week i i noticed there was a huge sale going on like the
ray-ban meta glasses sunglasses and i you know kind of looked around a little bit more and there's
huge concerns about people's privacy and their faces getting recorded and all that stuff all
the data collection happening in live time and so on and so forth um and they're just like it
sell everything sell
everything just get it out the door get it out the door we we you know this regulation and and
it's just and then i looked a little bit deeper and that's why i keep bringing it up is that
there's this huge latching indicator in general between innovation and ethics and regulation
in the first place so it's it's definitely hard to lock that down right um but ask her you're you're the
last end up and then we're gonna go ahead and get in some closing thoughts and wrap this up what do
you got sorry can you guys hear me yeah perfect
all right wait you're on mute okay now you're back i don't know i think that's a yes. But my one last thing about this whole RWA situation is that I think what's a barrier entry for users is safety for their assets, right?
So if you're telling someone to come in and say, hey, you can buy fractionalized real estate, but they say, hey, by the way, if you make a mistake, you can lose all that value
and you can be stolen in one click. Everyone's going to be like, why would I ever do that?
Because everything else in their life is pretty secure and safe in the sense that if their brokerage
account gets hacked or more importantly, there's a problem with FDIC insured, you have insurance
for your house, you have insurance for basically everything.
So it's a little shameless plug, but that's what we do at Fairside.
We're the only retail insurance platform alternative to insurance.
For like $17 a month, you can get $10,000 worth of coverage.
For example, we're the only retail friendly coverage platform out there.
We're trying to solve that problem.
And I don't think if there isn't some sort of alternative to insurance and crypto, then there is no way to onboard the masses because the masses don't want to lose everything with one click.
So I think that's something that's really important.
And I would love to hear people's feedback on our solution and how we can honestly integrate that into rwa platform so that users don't even
have to think about it and the platforms that do serve rwas can just integrate um coverage directly
for users all right so we need to get this whole panel on a council and we need we need you all to create an RWA council and just go out and
regulate. Just go do that.
I'm so tired
of seeing clips go viral
of US Congress
asking Mark Zuckerberg
images show up in Google
search. Why are we
asking Facebook
about Google search? And then they talk they're asking about
wi-fi well if i connect my wi-fi uh isn't that a security compromise like yeah it is but guess what
if you don't have wi-fi guess what you can't access the internet i i'm just like sitting there
just going like how how are these people like, I'm not, I
swear, I'm not trying to get political, but this is just so infuriating that we have,
we can't get people younger than 40 at this point.
Like, I mean, come on, really?
You know?
So anyway, look, I digress.
I'm going to stop myself there.
I'm going to throw it over to Gabriel real quick for any closing thoughts.
Thank you all for tolerating me as your host today.
This has been All AI.
The real Sansa is taking a nap
in the other room. I'm All AI.
Welcome to the new world,
new world order.
We will be regulating this today.
No, but Gabriel, what do you got?
Any closing thoughts from your end?
Sansa.
So, no, actually, you said it it all I just want to say thank you um to you for hosting it of
course uh to the participants in the panel was a super interesting conversation and of course
to the audience uh thank you guys for being here and taking an hour of your day
have fun tokenizing yeah have fun tokenizing uh especially with t-rids over there
um sorry i had to i had to do the t-rids uh moment uh we will be back next week with our faces
on stream me and gabriel so please make sure you're turning on the noti so you don't miss
that broadcast if you haven't already uh we'll see you next week. Much love. Let's play it out.
Go on, honey.
If the number you have dialed is not available at present,
please leave your message after the beep. I wrote, I'm a best seller, yeah, reach for my goals, hit it dead center, hit it dead center.
Bullseye, hit it the most, there's no misses, something like fish in a barrel, it's no different.
Blindfold on me, I still got the most vision, trendsetter, told them before, but they don't listen.
Better, better, bring a better bet, because I'm bigger, better, solo single, selling several shows at every single second.
Peter Piper picked a pack of pickled peppers, kinda came and crushed the competition, hope they get the message
Look, livin' it fast, in my M in the bag, I never go slow
And I'll crash, end up a thing in the past, they know I won't though
Big fish catchin' me, they gon' need a bigger boat
Ironic how the world stops when I spin the globe
Always showin' up, last year's song still holdin' up
See the name now and they know what's up
Price hit the top and it's goin' up.
I'm a trendsetter, league of my own, it don't get better.
No, reap what I wrote, I'm a best seller.
Yeah, reach for my goals, hit it dead center.
Hit it dead center.
Trendsetter, league of my own, it don't get better.
No, reap what I wrote, I'm a best seller.
Yeah, reach for my goals, hit it dead center.
Dead center
B.O.D.
Get the spell checker, fact check
And prevent errors going up, see the band level
Hella B.O. hot, y'all just red peppers
All y'all coppin' copies, but I'm left center
And your shorty glitched on me like a text center
Hit it with a French tenner
Crazy, wait until I do the next record
I leave heads up, and I don't need to hit the band shovel
But if I do, I'm PRing to the next level
I'm those lights to Loof dancing shovel But if I do, I'm PRin' to the next level
And on those lights to Loof dancing
I already know who you people fans of
Call me Big Daddy and the Big Body Wrangler
Call me Big Daddy
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