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RWAs on Arbitrum (Open Spaces)
Recorded: April 3, 2025 Duration: 1:04:40Space Recording
Short Summary
The discussion highlights the growth and innovation in the Arbitrum ecosystem, with new project launches like Bitso's MXN stablecoin and Wisdom Tree Prime's tokenized RWAs. The ecosystem has seen significant growth in tokenized asset value, reaching 190 million. Innovations such as MAVE's tokenized commercial equity deals and Bleep's high-yield savings vaults are reshaping financial services. Key trends include the need for increased liquidity and reduced capital costs, while technical advancements like integrating Arbitrum into Phantom are crucial for expanding user access.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. GM, GM guys, please bear with us as we slowly start the spaces. Hey, Hunter. Hey, guys. How are you?
What's going on? How are we doing?
Pretty good. Pretty good. Happy to be here.
Oh, yeah. I think this is going to be a really good spaces.
First time we've done like one focused on RWAs as open as this one.
So definitely expect a lot more people to join up.
Give it like another two minutes, just have some people flow in,
and then we'll kick it off. Thank you. All right.
We're getting a pretty healthy lineup of people already,
so I'll kick it off,
and we'll just let people up as they request.
But yeah, obviously, appreciate everyone for showing up today.
Definitely anticipate more folks to pop in.
I do community strategy at Offchain Labs,
the company that originally built Arbitrum.
Joined here today by Austin on the partnerships team,
who focuses more on the traditional finance slash institutional partnership side.
Austin, how are we doing?
Good, good.
Good to see everybody here.
Looks like we still got some people flowing in,
but excited to do this.
Definitely.
Yeah.
I think just to give people a brief kind of a flow of today,
definitely the idea is for this to be, you know,
a laid back spaces where we just talk about RWAs and of course their, you know, role in crypto.
But more specifically, we'll probably start with teams and companies who, you know, have them do
intros, talk about how they're integrated into Arbitrum. Like I said earlier, just request to
speak and we'll pull you up if you already have an integration.
We'll also, of course, speak more broadly on what role RWAs will play as the industry matures.
I'm sure a lot of people in this audience would agree that RWAs have definitely taken
on a much, much bigger role than they have in the past.
And I think it's shaping up to be a very very big part of crypto especially as time
goes on so if there's anything else that folks are interested in talking about whether it be
going deeper into like anything specific like stable coins tokenized stocks etc the floor is
definitely open I want this to be an open spaces for people to talk about what types of RWAs they're
interested in but before we jump into all that I'll hand it over to austin to talk more about the recent rwa
landscape on arbitram just to give people a high level overview yeah thanks hunter um yeah it's
been great um for those that don't know me um looking at a lot of the names in the chat uh
mail a bunch of you but you know arbitram i think uh was known for its DeFi. And I think what people start to realize is actually like the architecture of Arbitrum itself is actually just built and designed to cater towards, you know, financial applications.
And it's kind of found its PMF in that role, among other verticals as well. But I think naturally as, you know, blockchain or crypto kind of has evolved,
you've seen more interest.
And I think, you know, proving that DeFi itself has used for either retail and institutional.
So, you know, I think last year when I joined, there was like 100K worth of
RWAs or tokenized assets on Arbitrum. I think today we're around 190 million and getting to
200 and with the people in this space, hoping to 10X that, right? So I would say that right now,
we see a lot of different type of assets,
tokenized securities, mostly money market funds, and we can dive into that. We've seen tokenized
stocks. We've seen like commodities trading, which is really cool. And yeah, I think that's
a little bit of the landscape of Arbitrum. And I think where Arbitrum sets itself apart from other ecosystems is the amount of
applications surrounding the RWA applications. So if you're doing RWAs on chain, now you have
the ability to really access over 700 different DeFi applications, whether that's with your native
token or with the RWA itself on like a DEX, for example, and providing liquidity or potential lending opportunities
and doing looping that we've seen kind of with stable coins
on like traditional platforms like Aave.
So yeah, I think we're really excited to see where this space goes
and meeting with builders that are building applications,
tokenizing different assets that further prove Arbitrum
to be the space
to build these applications.
So yeah, that's it for me, Hunter.
I don't know if there's a certain agenda
how you want to keep going,
but that's the intro to RWAs on Arbitrum.
Sweet.
Yeah, no, definitely.
I'll actually pin a couple of recent announcements
that have actually happened between last week and this week.
I think some notable ones that I'll mention here right now is Bitso launching MXN exclusively on Arbitrum.
That's a stablecoin backed one-to-one by the Mexican peso. That was a really, really cool one.
really cool one. And of course, today, Wisdom Tree Prime announced that institutions can now mint
tokenized RWAs directly on Arbitrum, including the likes of money market, equities, fixed income,
and asset allocation funds. So we're getting deep in the weeds here. RWAs are definitely growing,
and this is definitely what we're here to talk about today so i'd love to give the opportunity for some folks that are already here um you know on this basis with us to kind of talk
about what they're building on arbitram uh and you know how they're how they're expanding rwas on
chain um i think we had barry on first so i want to give them the uh the ability to go and then
we'll uh move down the list so feel free to give like an intro and
like yeah what you guys do. Yes amazing well thank you so much for the opportunity to participate in
this space. Basically it's basically the very basically the Robinhood on-chain. What we're
trying to do is give the possibility to third world countries
that cannot access an experience like Robinhood because they are not US citizens
and the same experience, the same fast way to access stocks, ETFs, and other US equities.
Basically, we are doing this on top of Harbitrum
and DINARI, which is here in this space.
We launched, I think, eight months ago,
nine months ago, and with all the marketing stuff,
a month ago, and we are growing here Argentina, Africa,
some other countries from South America and that's it. There is the way and the app to
enter to real-world assets, simple and fast.
and fast.
Sweet. And just for more context for people,
Barry is an iOS app, right? Or is it also an Android?
No, no, no. Both. Both. Android and iOS app.
Sweet, sweet. Yeah, I think that's one cool thing that I've started to,
you know, as I personally, you know, dive more into the RWA space, is that there's always
different flavors of apps in a particular vertical, but I think RWAs are the most interesting because
it seems like there's a lot more mobile-friendly applications that lend themselves towards RWAs,
and there is almost any other vertical that focuses on apps.
Those tend to be more web-facing,
whereas a lot of the protocols dealing with RWAs are
either really all the way in the back-end and
dealing with just institutions maybe,
but then there are also those in the front-end like yourselves,
that go essentially directly to
consumer with some of these options.
Yes, that's it.
Basically, the way that, for example, if you want to buy a U.S. stock here in Argentina,
it's a hard process. You have to, first of all, open a bank account using, for example, an app like Interactive Brokers.
using, for example, an app like Interactive Brokers.
Open a U.S. bank account, then try to move your funds from Argentina to the U.S., and
then buy the stock in the U.S.
And also, you have a pretty hard KYC process.
In Berri, with this mobile app, it is easy because you download the app,
you start the KYC, which is like a three-minute process,
and you can deposit fiat, for example, Argentinian pesos.
You receive the USDC, and we start communicating with Dynary contracts
with Dynary contracts to give the real world assets to our users.
to give the real world assets to our users.
So it's so much simpler and the people that can
expose their capital to these ETFs or stocks that are not
available in the traditional way here in Argentina.
Awesome. Really appreciate you guys for coming up.
Let's hand it over to, I think we'll go Bleep, Denari, then Ostium.
And then Nick will have you last, just because I think that was the order that you guys came up in.
But yeah, go ahead, Bleep.
Cool. Thank you, Hunter. Thanks, Arbitrum, for hosting the spaces. This is like an incredible moment in crypto for RWA.
Very similar to Barry, we are a consumer-facing app.
We're trying to build a bank account, a current account, for your everyday finances on the blockchain.
finances on the blockchain. We've been live for also similar about nine months, but we really only
launched our open beta four, five months ago, maybe. And what we allow customers to do is
buy crypto, sell crypto from fiat bank accounts into a self-custodial wallet that you then can spend from with no
fees with a MasterCard. In our opinion, it's the only true self-custodial debit card out
there. The debit card literally pulls the funds out of your self-custodial account
on Arbitrum. All the fees, all the gas fees are all subsidized by us, but it's awesome that
Arbitrum has sub one cent fees. So it's not that hard for us to do it. And it's just a bunch of
smart contract abstractions that allows us to never touch your funds unless you're actually
spending them with a card. The rest of the time they are in your wallet, we cannot do anything
with them. And we obviously rely a lot on stable coins and protocols that do a DeFi yield like Angle or Spark. And we rely on them to give customers,
for example, savings vaults that give you 10 times more yield than a traditional bank account
like JP Morgan or even Revolut right now. I think they give like 2% or 3% in euro.
or even Revolut right now, I think they give like 2% or 3% in euro.
And we've been able to give 10%, 15% even a couple of weeks back on USD.
So this is only possible because protocols like Angle, like Spark,
are tokenizing US treasuries.
They're tokenizing other financial derivatives from the real world into the blockchain.
And then we can just one click into them for our customers.
And we're live on more than 100 countries.
So all the self-custodial features obviously are available to every single person in the world.
And then we have
a bunch of fiat features so going from crypto to fiat and from fiat to crypto spending with a card
those are live in europe and hopefully in a few months we'll be we'll be going to
south america as well and yeah um one of the cool things we also want to do is obviously give customers the opportunity to invest in stocks and other financial instruments.
But right now, that's what we have.
It's current account on the blockchain for everyday finances with a savings account and 2% cash back as well.
Love it. Also appreciate that little pitch, the little show right there and at the end
obviously uh needed um awesome thank you guys uh i think we have denari i think we had up next
hey guys um so i'm anna from denari mrcbo. Thanks so much for having us here. We're really excited to talk about tokenization with you.
Just a bit of background on Denari. So our whole mission is to enable people to basically invest in anything from anywhere. from scalably makes it possible to scalably and easily issue and distribute tokenized assets.
So we work with applications such as Barry, with wallet providers, exchanges, financial institutions, and asset managers
to make that process as seamless as possible so that you can provide the things that you need to your customers,
the things that they want in the way that makes
sense for, you know, wherever you are or whatever kind of application you are. Today we're working
with end customers in over 60 countries and we are super excited for what's to come next
for tokenized assets. I think this will be a really exciting year, so really excited to
talk with you guys about it today.
Awesome.
Yeah, I think it's also definitely really cool to have you guys up here since I know you're powering, at the very least,
two or three different consumer-focused apps on Arbitrum with your tokenized docs.
So, yeah, very excited about it.
All right, we got Ostium.
Hey, yeah, Kalidora here speaking on behalf of Ostium. Thanks for having us. Maybe I'll just give a quick overview of what we're building. So yeah, we're currently only a place to go long or
short with some amount of leverage on things like the S&P, NASDAQ, gold,
oil, et cetera, on chain. So you can only place to punt S&P, levered S&P shorts with what's going
on in the market right now from your wallet. Super excited about all the innovation that's
happening in the Arbitrum ecosystem, Nari, Mass, many of you guys here. I mean, the broader vision here is to build
eToro on-chain or sort of a decentralized FX type of broker, but on-chain. We want to be the fastest,
easiest, most efficient way for you to take whatever directional long or short position
with or without leverage through a perp-like instrument on any of the assets that you would
have from a traditional
retail FX broker. So right now we have commodities, so things like gold, silver, oil,
copper, FX, G10FX, and then things like Canadian dollar and Mexican peso, obviously very relevant
with the tariffs right now. They're down tremendous, insanely volatile currently. If you take a look at
some of our charts, it's pretty incredible what's going on. And indices like NASDAQ, S&P, Dow that I mentioned, and then also international indices
like Nikkei, German DAX, and the FTSE in the UK. And then we have a lot more on the way, including,
well, a bit of a spoiler, but some single name stocks. And then we're going to be working on
bonds and then things like the VIX, which have been very, very heavily requested by users in the ecosystem.
So, yeah, super excited to do that.
And then also just to hear more from some of the other builders in the ecosystem working on bringing these assets on chain.
Ultimately, this is, if we're going to succeed and blockchains are going to be useful at scale, this is where things are going. I think I personally, I mean, this is what we're
betting the company on, but I think trading long or short trading basically on TradFi assets on
chain from a wallet is the biggest opportunity in DeFi, like full stop. So that's what we're
building towards. There's definitely a special place in my heart for Ostium. It to me is kind of like the perfect intersection of like, you know, on-chain
crypto DGens, you know, the classic ones that have been here for a long time, but also that bridge to
like, you know, being able to do that DGEN activity with RWAs. Also huge shout outs to your intern.
They do a great job. Yes, the intern is an amalgamation of multiple personalities.
There are several faces behind the intern account.
That makes a lot of sense, actually,
because there's definitely a ton of personality coming out of there.
Okay.
We have Nick as well.
Nick, go for it.
I think it's... Hey, guys. Yeah, I think it. Hey, guys.
Yeah, I think it's crypto.
I'm actually jumping in for Nick.
So, Justin with Maeve.
So nice to meet you guys.
And thank you for having us.
We actually are still in the process of starting to build on Arbitrum.
And so we've been talking to you guys for a few
weeks and months now, but obviously it's a very attractive chain. And I love the group that you
guys built because that got us even more excited because there's so many people that we can partner
with and work with. So I'll do a quick intro, just keeping it short, but MAVE, it actually stands for Multi-Asset Investment
Vehicle. And what we're doing is really kind of redefining real world assets in the RWA space by
giving people, giving investors access to tokenized and hard access back commercial equity deals. So
think like institutional grade fixed returns, plus the upside of profit sharing,
and we're documenting all of that on chain. So Nick has a very strong background in real estate
and real estate development. And he noticed an opportunity during COVID in his own company and
decided to say, hey, we're going to build something that
people need. And so what this project essentially does that brings the opportunity for traditional
and retail regular people, the opportunity to invest as if they were some of these institutional investors or high net worth individuals and
be able to share in the contracted returns from those real estate projects.
So it's been very exciting so far.
We actually have a few deals that are live and yeah, the community is excited about it
and we're really, really excited about building on Arbitrum as well. So currently we're building with scale and we will essentially become the bridge between multiple chains to allow people with those specific tokens to be able to deploy their tokens on our platform and invest in and generate a return with those as well.
So. Great. Great. Thank you. Cool. I'm going to open it up to some questions.
I have a few questions just to ask the group. Maybe we'll pick out certain teams.
But I think on the introductions here there's
like a clear theme that every team is hoping to do and that's democratize you know global
ass access to assets that may not be available to people in certain jurisdictions um and i think
one that's just such a great vision to have. But I'm curious to know, starting out with maybe like Denari slash Barry here, you know,
what are certain areas that you guys like see in the world that you have most amount
of demand for?
And you know, what are you planning to do?
I guess if you can share in your roadmap to continue growing in these regions and continue growing distribution of assets that your retail users might not have access to?
So we're, I mean, we're seeing demand globally at this point.
I think last year was a really interesting year if you were kind of interested in tokenization and, you know, or and or working on it.
And I think I'm not sure, you know, how I'd love to get everybody else's take on this.
But I mean, it's just an absolute explosion of interest in the last, you know, four months or so.
We primarily work with other businesses. So I think it's been incredible to see that companies around the world are kind of starting
to see the use case here, both in Web3 native, but also in kind of financial institutions
and kind of more Web2 type apps are starting to like, to really see how powerful this actually is,
both in terms of what they can offer to their customers and how much easier it makes the
financial infrastructure side of things. So I think we're, you know, we're very excited to
continue growing those relationships and those partnerships. You know, I think we think there's a lot of opportunity
even in the US potentially with regulatory changes here
and yeah, I think this is a global thing.
And I mean, I think Barry can probably speak better
to users, to end users, but in terms of the kind
of B2B point of view, it's been extraordinary
and it's been very cool to see.
Yes, and in terms of retail from our side,
there's a huge demand of, for example, Gen Z and millennials
that wants to access in a simple way to stocks or U.S. equities.
And they don't have that possibility using the traditional way.
So in terms of demand, I think we have many young people from all over the world, South America, Argentina, Mexico, Brazil.
So I think the way that we can expand this
is targeting the people that really need this experience
and the most fastest way to to access to to these assets
and yes i think that the the real way is from our side is is coming coming to to those sources
yeah that makes a lot of sense i think um I was just in Argentina last week, and I think
that's a clear theme, right? Gaining access to things that people don't necessarily have
on their daily basis. I think the team isn't here today, but one of them is El Dorado,
which just allows people to gain access to just the US dollar on a daily basis.
I have an interesting question for Kalidora on the OCM side.
I think your platform's pretty intuitive in terms of the trading experience.
What are some of the things that you see,
some of the trends that you see from your users,
and then also how you maybe plan to tap
into the Arbitrum ecosystem,
what you, what maybe Arbitrum as like a technology
also helps in terms of like building this platform
that really I think you mentioned like volatility
and tariffs, like you need to withstand
like high frequency trading from, you know,
like trading desk potentially.
Yeah, so your first question is like,
what are we seeing in terms of demand from users or like what do users want? Yeah, so your first question is, like, what are we seeing in terms of demand from users
or, like, what do users want?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I mean, users want to basically be able to punt on, look, like, I would frame
sort of our initial core user base.
And to be clear, the broader vision, as I mentioned earlier, is sort of to build this
sort of eToro-type style platform fully on-chain inoro type style platform fully on chain and, you know,
permissionless and, you know, neutral way that's transparent. But ultimately, obviously, go after
the lowest friction user first, and then you expand beyond that. And the lowest friction user
is someone on chain today, who is capital on chain, who's using perplexes like GMX or Hyperliquid
or DYDX, and wishes they could express their market views on other stuff,
because for better or for worse, crypto has become sort of a levered bet on macro. And
if you're not tracking geopolitics or whatever Trump's doing with tariffs or CPI PRIDS or NFP
or whatever it is, Fed meetings, you're going to get caught offside. So you have to track this
stuff. People are tracking it. And as a result, it's only natural. They also develop market views on other assets that are not purely crypto. If you have an opinion
on what the tariffs mean for crypto, for risk assets, you're probably going to have a view on
other, or you might even go the other direction. You are going to follow tariffs. You'll have an
opinion what that means for the general economic direction, what that'll mean for what the Fed has
to do, money supply, monetary supply, and then ultimately what that means for risk assets like crypto. So you're
looking at it from a more holistic lens. You're going to have market views on things like S&P
or on gold, which has been ripping. And there's no easy way to go and express that alongside your
crypto positions. You want to be able to, and many of these people are perpetrators, right?
So they're not necessarily looking to just hold and sit in spot, which is more what they might do
from like a traditional brokerage account where they're just, that's sort of their
quote unquote safe funds. And for the things that they're taking short-term directional swings on,
they're probably doing that on chain from the sorts of perp decks, as I mentioned, and they wish they
could bet on these other things alongside that. And they don't have a way of doing that today.
So that's what we're facilitating. The demand that we really see is like, people want to go and be
able to punt long or short with some leverage,
whatever they feel comfortable with and some size on BTC, but also on gold, also on S&P.
Maybe they want to catch the falling knife on the S&P right now.
Maybe they think it's going to reverse, et cetera.
So that's really like that's sort of the core demand right now.
And being able to do that through like these synthetic perp like positions is,
you know, in our view, just the most seamless, most user friendly way of doing it. I think that was your first
question. I don't know if you had a second follow on question, which now I can't recall. Sorry.
Yeah, but I did. But now I kind of want to keep going down this rabbit hole because I think like,
because, you know, I think one of the things that I personally like live in the US and, you know, you have access to like financial applications.
And I think one of the connotations, if you have friends that are outside of crypto, is that crypto is just like this big kind of speculative place. here is building a financial application that actually solves problems for the users or brings
a solution to people globally to then, in your case for ASEAN, do perpetrating on really global
economics, right? Yes, Trump is doing these tariffs, but it really affects global currencies
and global assets. And why should that, only be able to be traded on certain
brokerages in certain jurisdictions.
So applaud, I think, like everybody here doing that.
I want to.
Yeah, we want to become the best macro trading app full stop.
You know, like we're obviously the first step is just actually being able to get to go and
list these assets.
But the next step beyond that, and maybe some of you guys have seen this, we launched a
product called Strategies,
which we built on top of the core DEX product
back in October, right before the election.
It was sort of an MVP
and we had it live for a couple of months.
It was like the original MVP
really served the purpose
that we were trying to fulfill,
which was basically,
I saw enough people on the Twitter timeline
being like, you know, if Trump wins,
I'm bullish BTC.
And if Kamala wins, I want to short alts.
And I'm like, why is that not a product?
Like that should be a product. Why is it that people can only bet
directionally, specifically on the outcome of the election, this sort of binary outcome,
or they can go and bet on crypto, whatever the asset is, but with the trigger for that trade
being price, most people are thinking about this trade as a trigger based on an event.
Why is there no easy way for me to go and set an automatic programmatic trade where the trigger for that trade is the event outcome?
So we built what we call strategies, which was we pulled from the Polymarket API.
It's fairly straightforward.
You can go and set something like if the Trump win odds are higher than 80 percent, then go long BTC.
And then we added other markets from Polymarket.
So let's say if the odds of Trump ending the Russia-Ukraine war in the first 90 days are higher than 60%, maybe it went along the euro.
That worked really well for these sort of super binary events.
But based on the feedback that we got from users, this was just an MVP.
And there were certain constraints like you couldn't set an exit condition, right?
So you could only set the entry, but you couldn't actually set the exit.
You couldn't pull other things like NFP data or CPI data, or we were just pulling from Polymarket.
So we've sunset this MVP, got a lot of great feedback. And then we're working on
relaunching that in the coming months. And you can think of what we're building towards as
basically being this sort of like full service set of strategies where you have different event
triggers that you'll be able to use for entry and exit for all these positions. So that's, yeah,
Broadway is sort of like best macro, easiest, simplest macro trading
app.
You start by being able to let anybody around the world with a wallet and some stable coins
access these assets in the easiest, most seamless way to trade them, which is sort of this
perp-like instrument.
And then, you know, the features that we build out on top is thinking about how people can
further customize those orders and take those views on the world, not just through, you
know, scaling based on time and price, which is how most of the more sophisticated
orders on places like Hyperlink would work, right, where you can scale bids in and out
based on size, time, price, etc.
But adding in this sort of, you know, fourth dimension of events, which we think is sort
of the critical missing piece when it comes to thinking about trading macro and trading
what's going on in the world.
Yeah.
Yeah, that totally makes sense. And it's funny because like you look at on Arbitrum,
like I think GMX has like the most traded volume right now that I think in Uniswap,
I think they're the two leaders in the index volume. So there's like clear that like in
crypto people want to bet.
However, I want to like swing it over to Bleep who, you know, as they introduce themselves as kind of like this on-chain banking account and the ability to move money. Like I'm curious, you know, the Bleep team, how do you see yourself like growing on-chain?
Ultimately, same thing, similar to like Denari and Barry,
almost like democratizing the access to an on chain banking account, but also moving money in
a seamless way. You know, where are you focusing yourself on your products? Is it like a stable coin?
You know, is it focusing on different stable coins, giving them, giving your users access to maybe local jurisdictions or local stable coins?
How do you see yourself like working with a Denari and an Osteum type product and whatnot?
Great question.
So just to be clear, how do we see ourselves growing?
How do we see Bleep using, leveraging Ostium, Denari, stuff like that?
Obviously, everybody in the Bleep team, we're all crypto users and we're all kind of from
like some financial background.
So we also invest and we have a S&P 500.
It's like not 100% of our money is in crypto, obviously.
But we've always looked at products like, Ostium is obviously more recent,
but products that tokenize assets are just,
it's just a way more efficient infrastructure
to buy and sell and trade and send any sort of value across the world
with subsent fees and almost instant feedback. Let's say I send my friend in Australia S&P 500
for his birthday. I cannot do that anywhere else. Not saying that that's necessarily like,
oh, we're solving this great problem,
people sending S&P 500 across the world.
But the fact that you can just trade whatever,
you're not going to...
Something that has plagued our minds
is stuff like FTX and Robinhood Hood when they I don't know if
anybody here bought into the GameStop saga but I did it was like a ticket
ride I put like I don't know like 20 bucks 30 bucks and it was a fun to see
it go up and down and then all of a sudden retail is locked out and we and
we can't do anything and and when FX happened, it was the same thing.
It's like, oh, it's all fun and games until these centralized entities decide doing something against you.
So we thought, okay, we're going to start using stuff like Denari, stuff like Ostium.
But we are fairly advanced users and we have, uh, uh, you know,
college degrees and engineering degrees, and we know how to touch all the
buttons and what all the math means.
And, and it's, it's okay for us, but 90% of the population doesn't.
90% of the population doesn't know what a seed freight is or what
cryptography is.
So our goal is really to, to make all of these products that all of these incredible
teams are building including our products that we ourselves are building just one click away
from you know the most average person that you've met that basically just needs to know how to
connect to the internet and not forget their email basically. Um, because while, and I just want to be like the, the, the teams, uh, the building stuff
on Arbitrum, like these, these things are insane.
These products are incredible.
Um, some of them are not for, uh, you know, regular retail, retail uh investors like too much information we want to really um
clear the clutter or get get rid of the clutter and really show the customer hey look um this is
risky and you'll get 15 a year this is less risky and it'll get five percent a year. Like here for plus, like here for minus.
And where it really becomes difficult,
where we found it becomes difficult, is when you're already on-chain,
everything just works.
You can just send and trade and do everything.
The problem that we see today is getting on-chain,
and then for whatever reason, getting off of the on-chain.
So if you go to the supermarket, they still don't take USDC.
They take Heroes and USD and Argentinian pesos or whatever.
is allow regular customers to get into these tradable tokenized assets without knowing
necessarily that they're going into this whole decentralized infrastructure. Because for us,
the infrastructure is better, it's more efficient. We don't need necessarily to explain that it's
more efficient. We just need to show them that it's more efficient. And for that, we need to really make it easy. So that's our goal is just a couple
clicks and you've invested in the S&P 500 in a decentralized fashion. And yeah, I think we're
talking to some of the teams here. I don't want to just mention any names in case there's like some market asymmetry. But yeah, really excited to get some of these protocols on
the Bleep app and in front of the Bleep customers.
Yeah, that's, that's great. I think I sat down with Joao from the Bleep team a few
months ago to get like an in person demo of the app. And it was, it was quite awesome.
Good background in terms of like building products.
So I'm really bullish to see what Bleep does on chain.
And especially as like, you know, to bring new users to the chain.
Right.
I think like that's ultimately what we need to do and have a quick, simple product.
I think Bleep is one of them.
I want to pass it over to now CryptoJohn or the Maeve team. We mentioned different type of assets or applications on Arbitrum today,
mostly around trading and Bleep obviously mentioning the simple use. You guys have a
whole different kind of business model and reason why you're using Arbitrum or reason why you're using blockchain technology.
You know, what is kind of your end goal here?
I know you guys are focused on real estate.
So what is a little.
Awesome.
Yeah, great question.
Yeah.
One of the first thing. Oh, can you hear?
Go ahead. Yeah, we can hear you.
Okay, sorry. I think I got a bit of internet issues for a second. But great question. Really what, and I just wrote down to connect with Bleep because I already feel like there's some synergy there.
But it's a very, very similar strategy.
And so what we're looking to do is we've got also this theory as we were building the solution.
Not only are we giving access to retail investors so that they can get access to, you know, something that's been like this institutional secret.
Hey, you can earn contracted
returns by investing money, but it's only been accessible to those high net worth individuals
and VCs, like I stated before. So now with a very similar strategy, we've built a platform
that we want people to be able to leverage the tokens that
they have and leverage the money that they have, no matter what amount that is, and give
them the opportunity to participate in these highly vetted real estate opportunities.
We have access to some incredible projects and development projects and things that are
essentially underwritten by the Amazons, the Costco's, the Whole Foods of the world.
And these projects specifically can guarantee to a sense, you know, you know, in a point to return a certain certain percentage back
to the investor. And so looking across where we are in in crypto right now, you've got a bunch
of projects, you've got a lot of the retail money is spread very thinly between a lot of different
projects. And one of the things that
we discussed is how do we give people the opportunity to do something with those tokens?
You know, I think a lot of projects may not make it out of this environment, but people still are
holding bags that they, you know, that they've been holding for years, and those things still have value.
So if we can create essentially or what we've created as a simple bridge that can then connect to the arbitrums and other chains to give the entire ecosystem access to a platform that allows them to use the tokens that they already have and be able to deploy
those tokens into an investment that's going to return um a certain you know contracted return so
that's that's uh something different but really what's extremely attractive about arbitram is
that you guys are killing it in the space and And even in that group, I keep going back
to the group, it's only been a few days, but you can feel the energy. I'm a part of so many
different groups. And if you've been in the space, you know, our RWA is a narrative that everyone
tried to jump on because that's where it's supposedly headed it was like gaming before or ai or meme
coins but rwas in in in this space what you found is that there's a bunch of founders who have
actually created solutions that are solving real problems and it's going to be the most uh the
simplest thing for people to digest when it comes to, okay, well, I don't know much about
crypto, but I do understand fractionalized investments or real estate. So that's kind of
the goal there. And so we've just been strategically building since this idea. And,
you know, legal has taken two or three years, but that was the first focus
to really set this up so that we're, you know, legally able to accept funds from people around
the world with the exclusion of US and UK. But other than that, it is the help the retail investor do something that helps them generate some safe returns and engage with as many communities as we can.
Awesome. Awesome.
I'm curious to know, like, you know, as you guys are going through your growth journey and obviously like entering this new kind of realm of financial applications, especially on-chain,
but specifically Arbitrum, you know, what are you looking for
from the Arbitrum ecosystem to continue your growth
to help find PMF?
You know, I can, I guess, open this up to anybody
who wants to go off mic first.
Kind of an open question to the crowd.
Well, from our side, one of the key parts that I think that Arbitrum has is
the many integrations that you can apply to your app.
From the best RPC providers to the best Fiat on-off-run providers.
And that's, yes, I think that's the best thing and that that will have in terms of
of community and integrations and and then of course a a the fast and reliable uh
ecosystem infrastructure that you that you made those years um so that's it
So that's it.
Yeah, but I guess the question was like, what could Arbitrum do better?
Would you like more out of the Arbitrum ecosystem to continue your guys' path?
Oh, okay, okay.
Maybe you guys think it's perfect, you know? Sorry, what was that? Maybe you guys think it's perfect you know sorry yeah yeah right so um yeah i mean i guess i'll take
silence but um we can never i would also love to find out how we could always improve right
um we're not we're not at the end goal here. But I guess I'll take silence. That works
as well. If you guys want just one suggestion, I think these sort of things and continuing to build
the links between the members of the community, this is just perfect. I mean, and if you guys have been in the space for a while,
it's a bit lonely because most of us build online
or work with decentralized teams.
And so we only meet at conferences.
And so these sort of in real life moments are also good
because there's so many different ways
that we can find, you
know, benefit of being able to connect with other projects in the ecosystem.
So just these opportunities to connect are great.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
That's a prop to our marketing team here and building a community, right?
Like if we're going gonna disrupt global finance,
we can't do it all in one,
kind of like put our arms together here and grow together.
So again, I guess I'm like, I'll keep going in here
and like I keep asking questions,
like is there anything within the Arbitrum ecosystem,
like any applications or any integrations
that would really take,
that you think that
would take your applications to the next level?
You know, I think DeFi, a 30-day like volume of DeFi on Arbitrum was like 25 billion, right?
So how do we get RWAs now, you know, to start tacking away either or adding to that, to
that Dex volume or that d5 volume on chain is there
anything like in the build process that that could be improved is there you know like i guess you
guys mentioned the community thing which is great uh we're going to keep doing things like this but
always always open to new ideas on how especially us at offchain labs can continue to build
solutions to to make your apps
better for for the end user do you want my honest view i would say to my two ass are uh retweet
stuff more like uh more i guess marketing involvement like proactively with protocols
and then liquidity support those are the two most important things like cost of capital
distribution and reducing cost of capital for protocols. Yeah, actually, I'm going to hit on that real quick. Caladora, for example, you have a platform
that has FX, or basically kind of has this ability to perpetrate different currencies. Is there a
problem or do you see liquidity being a blocker as to getting more FX trading?
Or let's say, I know right now you're focused more towards retail traders, but what would
be the solution to get maybe an FX desk to use the Austium platform?
Is it liquidity?
Tossed capital is everything, right?
If you can have, I mean, you have to figure out how to get the thing off the ground and escape the flywheel, but a lot of that is cost of capital.
So if you have ways of decreasing that are, you know, chains with liquidity chemists up
front that they can, I mean, it's a huge issue for protocols that are getting started that
they have to go and figure out, it's kind of insane to do this in DeFi, but you have
to figure out how to build a product, interact with customers, build loyalty, build a brand,
and then also figure out how to get, you know, like, put any trust in a structure around a future token.
There's a lot.
So reducing, like, cost of capital and that hurdle towards bringing liquidity onto any
sort of financial application up front at the chain level is a huge unlock for founders,
in my opinion.
Yeah, it makes sense, right?
I think a lot of the products, I think, in DeFi are just in general, I guess, even in the RWA space is like an AUM business sense, right? I think a lot of the products I think in DeFi are just in general,
I guess even in the RWA space is like an AUM business model, right? Like I think when we see
what's on chain now, mostly some sort of funds doing some sort of basis points business model.
So yeah, it definitely is liquidity is what everybody's going for? I think, too, the process. I think so if liquidity is the problem, one of the things that I guess like would be a blocker is how to get money that is like in a traditional banking account to then get on chain, right?
Like that process maybe to be more seamless, to deposit into Ostium, to deposit into Bleep or Denari.
And maybe that's something, right?
Like Bleep, like you can help on some of these applications as more people on board. There's just more liquidity on the chain as you're building like this on-chain banking account.
You create this seamless experience of depositing into a Ostium-like strategies type thing or
being able to- I can say, I'll just say one more thing on this.
I mean, look, we're integrating with a third-party partner called Fund.xyz
that helps us with basically deposits into the platform,
either through from another chain, another asset on the same chain.
Basically, they call it the whole checkout experience.
This is also from a bank account, all these things you mentioned.
One of the biggest blockers we have is a bunch of people with a phantom wallet
that want to connect to Ostium and transfer money from Solana because, whatever, they're cycling out of the biggest blockers we have there's a bunch of people with a phantom wallet that want to connect to austium and transfer money from solana because whatever they're cycling out
of mean points and arbitrage is not on phantom like we can't support anyone with a phantom wallet
and there are millions of people who have phantom wallets it's like probably the most as we're
trying to expand beyond the native defi like pure traditional defi eth people which is where the
original you know,
starter low friction user base is.
As we expand beyond that,
this is mostly these sort of Web 2.5 people.
The wallet that they have is Phantom.
So that actually, scrap everything I said,
the number one ask that I have is that you guys get Arbitrum integrated into Phantom.
This would unlock a huge user base for us.
Like I really mean this.
Like it's been a consistent friction point
from users that we've tried to onboard
who are more Web 2.5 style.
That's great feedback.
And just to add to what Calador is saying,
or just to give her props for saying this,
we see the exact same thing.
There's a ton of people,
a ton of retail users on Phantom.
We had to build a specific integration with Phantomantom uh just so they can on ramp onto
arbitrum from salon and stuff like that um without any fees because the the process for them right
now going through centralized exchanges or off ramping through moon pay or ramp or whatever
into a bank account and then going from their bank account into arbitrum like that's just a
completely broken experience.
Yeah, we were like actively considering allocating like weeks of engineering resources
to come up with a backdoor solution to get Phantom users on the protocol
because it's that important.
So you could, yeah, if you guys were on Phantom,
it would save us two weeks of development.
Users, users, users.
This is great.
Okay, thanks guys.
Especially if we're going to change finance on chain.
Speaking to our partners here is how we get better. I know Hunter had the next question.
Feel free to jump in Hunter. Yeah, thanks. I guess I was kind of coming in
to that point around bridging over users from Solana. I'm curious, is that primarily trying to get Phantom users
to continue using Phantom on your app
or is that more so bridging them over from Solana?
I mean, if they don't have money on Arbitrum,
they'd have to bridge it from Solana,
but they want to use Phantom as their wallet.
If they're Solana native, they're using Phantom.
They don't have a MetaMask. And right now we don't give them any way to log in with the wallet because they don't have MetaMask.
Yeah, so I would have to also second that. It'd be very nice if
Phantom supported Arbitrum. Yeah, I also forgot I had my hand raised, so apologize about that.
I got to run in like a couple minutes, so I'm just going to listen in here. Thanks, Hunter, for coming in. Awesome. Okay, Hunter
from Offchain Labs. I think you also had a question as well. That I did. More of a broader
question for any of you guys who have any thoughts here. But I mentioned that earlier.
I've been in this space since 2017,
and it was a much different time for RWAs versus stablecoins at that.
I think USDC and DAI were the only ones, and I think no one wanted to touch USDC with a 10-foot pole,
and everyone hoped DAI would be the next stable
that would essentially just dominate all of crypto because it had some sort of essentialization involved in it.
You know, I think fast forwarding to today, that landscape is obviously far outgrown those two assets.
I don't think DAI is even really a thing anymore. But with all that context, do we think like with all these tokenized assets
coming on chain, whether it be like stable coins,
bonds, et cetera,
do we think like DeFi will see a hefty inflow from that?
Or do we think like all these things will come on chain
and they'll be available to end users on chain
but won't necessarily mesh with the current liquidity that defy offers i'm just curious
on anyone's take here just because i i've spoken to a couple of builders before on the defy side and
i think it's actually one of the concerns that they have that they're they're afraid they may
they may not they might not see the upside in these RWAs coming on chain.
not they might not see the upside in these rwas coming on chain
I mean, I can speak to what we see.
So, you know, we do see a lot of more financial institutions
and Web2 native type applications that are looking to leverage the technology,
but not necessarily, you know, create a next generation, if you will, of DeFi users.
But at the same time, I think one of the exciting things that we're seeing is
we're giving DeFi native users access to things that they would otherwise either have to work
very hard to access, as someone was speaking about earlier, the ability to invest in US public equities
and Argentina is very complicated.
We're giving access within an environment
that maybe where that liquidity is now,
where those users are now,
we're giving access to something new
that they couldn't access before.
And so I think what we will see is
people can do what they want to do where they want to do it.
And, you know, if you have someone who's, you know, believes in self- they can work with tokenized real world assets as well
and manage everything in one place and do all of the, you know, whether it's trading or investment,
do all of that in the place that they're doing it now. So I think, you know, I totally understand
this view. I mean, I've been in DeFi for a while, but I think, you know, on the other hand, there
is a kind of an upside here that you can now do a lot more in DeFi that you maybe weren't enabled to do before, even a year ago or two years ago or five years ago.
So I think there's an upside here.
And the applications that people want can continue to get built and simply offer so much more than they could before.
Yeah, that's a great point.
Sorry, didn't know somebody else was stepping in.
Happy to answer questions.
I know we're kind of here up on the hour now.
Happy to answer a question from anybody that's involved,
that's open to speak.
Wanted to make a quick introduction to Joao, who's on the Arbitrum
Foundation team. He's located in Brazil. So definitely making a larger impact with people
on the ground. So if you're in the area, please, you know, Joao, maybe if you want to give a quick
introduction, but maybe first, let's see if there's any questions for the Arbitrum team.
If not, then Joao, feel free to introduce,
and then we'll close out and go from there.
All right.
Seems like no questions.
So Joao, feel free to introduce yourself,
and then anybody in Brazil, please feel free to reach out to them.
Yeah, yeah, perfect. Thank you so much for the invite, Austin. Really glad to hear you guys
talking about a lot of interesting stuff, especially mentioning Argentina, the whole time.
I've already known some of the projects here, so very, very nice to see you guys hand out,
hand out, building and doing all this stuff
that you guys are doing.
I recently joined Arbitrum Foundation to deal
with the Latam community.
So if you ever need anything on the ground,
or if you ever have any good ideas for Latam community,
don't hesitate to reach out.
I'm here to help and to make the Arbitrum community even greater I know all things ask it what we could do
better you guys were humble we didn't gave us a lot of stuff but yeah always
down to help and especially in the Latam but in general let's keep building in
Arbitrum and doing this huge impact that we are doing here.
Great, everybody. I think this was a great space.
Looking forward to doing more and, you know, bringing
the next gen of financial applications on Arbitrum.
That's that's what we're trying to do here.
So if you know anybody else building within the vertical
within the space, please add them to our RWA chat
and so we can continue to grow.
Thanks, guys.
Thanks for joining, everyone.
