I hope that you enjoyed the music.
Changed it midway through, but it's for your own pleasure so that it's not too redundant.
Even if we don't have all of the speakers, we're going to be starting now.
That way, they'll join midway and we'll be able to introduce them then.
So first off, I wanted to welcome everyone.
We're going to have an engaging discussion on the intersection of finance and technology.
Tonight, we're going to be diving into three big stories that happened this week, but we're
also going to be talking about social fire a lot.
The three big stories are quite controversial at the moment.
We've got the financial downfall of China's real estate agent Evergrande, Tesla's impressive
achievement of $2.85 billion in profit last quarter, and then Salesforce Network, a surprising
recovery from bankruptcy.
So we definitely have some stuff to talk about in the crypto world, and then we'll tap into
the expertise of the panel to explore the world of social fire and interactable content.
We need to be talking about how new platforms can revolutionize the way that we're thinking
about social media and how we can actually combine it with blockchain technology.
It's not just about posting and liking anymore.
It's really trying to create a new way for users to engage with content and even earn
But before we dive into all of our topics, we're going to be talking a little bit about
our panels and our experts that are here that are going to be chatting with us and giving
us all of their knowledge.
So first off, we have Maxime from Seaboard.
Can you talk a little bit about yourself and say hello to the crowd here?
I'm really happy to be here.
Thanks, Benji, for the invitation.
And yeah, basically, I am the co-founder and CEO of Seaborg, which is a spinoff of Swissborg
So what we are doing is referencing Twitter spaces on the mobile application.
And we also integrate Lens Protocol.
So when you connect your wallet, if you have a Lens Profile, you will directly have all
your information of your Lens Profile.
And now we are focusing on a few features on the creation side on recommendation based
on what people hold in their wallet and a few different things.
And I'm really, really happy tonight because we have your wonderful partner, Oscar, that
he's working at preview and maybe he can introduce himself.
Thank you, Benji, again, for including us and Maxime.
Yep, I lead GoToMarket for Privy.
And it's essentially from a very high level the easiest way for developers to onboard
users, regardless of where they are in their journey to a Web3 application.
So on one side, they could be crypto native, have 15 EOAs.
We can access that population.
And on the other hand, if it's a complete newcomer to the industry, you know, ability
to use Web2 like, email, SMS or social methods, create embedded wallets for them so that
they're able to interact with the app pretty seamlessly.
And we're very excited about the launch with Cyborg.
So excited to have the chat today.
I have so many questions I'm going to be asking you.
And it's going to be extremely fun to get that wealth of knowledge out of you.
I hope that you're ready to talk tonight because you and the other guys who's going
to be popping up any minute now, I hope, will have stuff to say.
Before delving into SocialFi and all of that, just let's see if we can have a little bit
of a chat on the three big topics, on the three big news that dropped this week.
So just to recap a little bit, the Evergrande liquidation situation, it's a very harsh
reminder of the risks in the real estate sector.
Really what happened is that Evergrande had an enormous amount of buildings and real estate
in China, and they're actually being liquidated.
So they're going bankrupt, which means a lot of people are going to be losing, well, a
And it could even have a lot of repercussions.
A lot of comments have been talking about reminiscing some of the events from 2008,
the real estate fell in the US, and that kind of dominoed effect its way onto the world.
And now they're saying that maybe if China can't get a grip of the situation very quickly,
it could go the whole other way around.
And it's pretty scary because a lot of investors mentioned that real estate and tangible assets
is always the way to go, and it's the safest bet.
And then you see stuff like that happening, where it's like these two big to fail guys
actually do sometimes fail and mess it up for everyone else.
So here the question that I wanted to go over, or the topic that I wanted us to talk
a little bit about is, what's actually safety in an asset?
Because there's always risk.
So I'm wondering if, Maxime, you have anything you'd like to say about this?
Yeah, I think it's a really interesting question because if we go back in time and see what
are the causes of the Evergrande fall, the thing is, if you look at how the economy works,
and by the way, I have a really interesting video made by Ray Dalio on basically how the
economy works, and it explains really well how people use credit to take some leverage
and to go faster, go faster, make more money and go faster again.
And the thing is, so that's what happened with Evergrande.
So they started with some credit to have a lot of leverage and to create a lot of houses,
And the thing is, they did this even before having some buyers on those real estate.
And so if the economy is always increasing and everything is good, you always take another
credit that is bigger and you make a little bit more money to remember this credit and
you do that again and again.
So at the end of the day, you scale a lot more thanks to the credit.
But the thing is, if at some point, yeah, people don't buy anymore your real estate,
well, you are kind of in a bad situation and that's where Evergrande is.
And yeah, so I think credit is a major risk, but it's an amazing leverage.
I don't know about you, Oscar.
Yeah, yeah, I'd concur for the most part.
I think when we look at safety of assets typically, we look more kind of in assets that are located
in the wallet, aside from the macro view.
But yeah, nothing too much to add there.
The second topic is Tether's Remarkable Profit.
That's more crypto related, so it's closer to what we do.
The company behind the USDT stablecoin, and I'm sure most of you guys know here, has had an
extraordinary quality profit, which has surprised more than many.
This achievement isn't just a testament to Tether's resilience and strategic acumen in the volatile
market, but also signals the growing influence and maturation of cryptocurrencies as both a stable
medium of exchange and a significant player in the global financial landscape.
I didn't know how to say it better, so I read out the Google first lines.
But what we were able to see here is that stablecoins in the last bear market have had a very,
And the expectations of how they should be providing safety for their assets and actually doing
proof of reserves and regulations and all of those mechanisms that are starting only now to
become really important, it's been shown that, well, we all have a sour memory of USD, for
So now we know that it can actually work, but you just have to kind of get it right.
And that's what Tether's starting to do now.
At one point, I remember that it was also considered a kind of risky bet to put some funds
into USDT and even USDC and even BUSD.
So it's interesting to see how they can really pull this turnover around so quickly into
And it's very bullish for the most part.
What do you think is the success of a stablecoin?
How can you convince people to invest in something that's never going to move?
Maxime, what do you think is the main value proposition of something that is kind of stable
Maybe we can let Oscar answer first so that you get the advantage on this one.
Oh, yeah, sure, sure, sure.
Yeah, I think with stablecoins, especially as you look at consumer usage with it, obviously
it comes with a bunch of regulatory concerns.
From the previous side, I think the way that we interface mostly with stablecoins is through
So we provide a lot of the onboarding for new users and newcomers into Web3.
And then as a logical second step, when the embedded wallet is created, you want to find ways
to be able to fund that wallet.
And I think there's applications that are web-based where going with like ERC20 and
stablecoins and on-ramp providers at times can be a bit easier to set up.
And a lot of that landscape changes as you move to kind of different clients.
So continuing to just figure out exactly what the best way to get funds into users' wallets
is always a consideration for us.
That's probably the way that we interface with stablecoins most.
Yeah, I have a little question on this.
Actually, I have two questions.
The first is, were you impacted, guys, by let's say directly impacted by Loona?
And the second is, oh, the allocation of stablecoin evolved in the past few years since Loona
and then USDC DeepEgg and all those.
So yeah, I think I was one of the lucky people in the Loona situation because I had a fair
bunch of USD, but I was quite aware that it wasn't going to be a sustainable model.
So it was, at the end of the day, a pretty big risk.
And at one point, I remember our co-founder here at Swissborg, Anthony, who went online
on YouTube, and he just said straight out, guys, I don't remember if he said,
this is financial advice, but it was something similar.
It was like, guys, USD is going down.
And I was like, OK, I didn't think it would be so soon.
But if Anthony says so, I'm going to take all of my USD and put it in another stablecoin instead.
All I'm losing is the difference in interest rate for a few days.
Maybe it's going to fall.
When experts have opinions like this and they don't usually have opinions like this,
I can be influenced, especially if I don't have much to lose.
So I calculated the difference in interest I was going to get by moving from one stablecoin
to another was like 80 cents or something for a week.
And to me, that was like, yeah, OK, I'm not going to take a risk for 80 cents.
And so I moved everything out.
And three days later, it crashed.
I had Anthony to thank for it because he made me move faster than I would have otherwise.
But yeah, no very bad impact apart from seeing everyone I care about around me be impacted,
which that wasn't easy either.
It was like, yeah, that was the toughest part for me.
Yeah, on the I'd say on the actual the USCC and kind of more the outside of the business,
a lot of it is like I mentioned earlier, surrounded around like onboarding to wallets,
like whether it be like web apps or PWAs on our side,
but also just figuring out from an end user perspective and developers,
like exactly which on-ramp providers that they'd like to go with.
If like credit card funding for embedded wallets is the flow that they're targeting.
But yeah, again, it's on the previous side with with wallets.
We come across stablecoins mostly through funding funding kind of fresh wallets.
Oh, nice. Now for the third topic before we attack social fight, we're going to be talking about Celsius.
So the Celsius network that all those people have known because they've been comparing us to them for quite a bit,
has actually done a surprising recovery and strategic emergence out of bankruptcy.
So how or like what did they do?
So they restructured their operations and they're launching a new Bitcoin mining company called Ionic Digital.
And so it's going to be owned by the creditors of Celsius.
And what it shows is that even when you do fall,
there is still a possibility to come back and to thrive from what you weren't able to build on at the beginning.
And also, I think Maxime told me that a few minutes ago there was an article about FTX,
maybe also doing something interesting on the coming backside.
So what we'd like to see here is so is it possible for companies that have had a bad rep and that have done maybe mistakes in the past to come back,
even as something else and regain trust from people or or is it not?
Are you guys going to be investing in the Ionic Digital after having followed the Celsius debate?
Or would you guys follow, for example, if one was to come back and make a new coin and new concept and a new chain?
Would you be able to trust him and invest in it?
Or would you say that because it's this guy, you're going to be staying away and out of it?
How would you go about that?
Yeah, clearly, if I lost trust in a project in a company, then it's finished for me because I give it once and then, well, not twice.
And I think especially when it's at this level, you know, I mean, companies can make mistakes.
But when when it's really like what did Celsius or FTX, although it's it's really kind of of a punsy and it's just you to kind of the community and yet to make them really, really rich.
But yeah, for me, it's it's not possible.
I will not go to to FTX again if it's reopened.
But I think I'm not sure about this.
We need to to to confirm the news.
But yeah, I think that FTX may reimburse people, but they will reimburse them at the price of the of the crypto back in November 20, 2022.
So, for example, if back then the Bitcoin was around 1820 K, then they will reimburse customers, but only with with those price.
But it needs to be checked.
Thanks. Oscar, would you would you be able to trust a project that betrayed you again?
I find it hard. You know, I think you'd really have to look into the smart contracts that are put in place, be comfortable with that.
And then I think a lot of initially, like even with the aftermath directly of what can happen in certain situations,
you know, sometimes the right remediation can be taken in place and it could be out of certain customers grass.
But in this case, like it would just be a little bit, I think, harder from the personal perspective to to be fully comfortable with it.
And it's part of why, you know, as a company, even with the privy and a lot of other like infrastructure stack providers, like building trust with customers is so important from the get go.
Yeah, 100 percent. I can agree with that.
And yeah, to do a pretty smart transition into into the world of social fight, the news and the trust and all of that that's been communicated is always empowered by people and by the messages and by the social media.
And we see so much information and disinformation everywhere.
It's sometimes very, very difficult to navigate and verify.
We've even seen accounts of the SEC being hacked more or less recently.
And what was it coin tribune or one of these big crypto news platform also published a fake article that moved the price of Bitcoin up and down.
That happened a few times recently. And and that's something that maybe could social fight it.
Could it not? Interesting questions to try and go over and to figure out where the value added is on top of just bringing extra interactions and gamification on our actual social media usages.
So what I mean to ask is is starting with with Maxime is what are the most exciting features that you have seen on on social fight projects so far and what are you hoping to see in the future?
Well, for me, you have different projects that are really interesting in the in social fight.
Some are more, let's say, financial like friend deck and it's kind of an interesting thing to to test.
But what really excites me is more about, for example, when you have a new social platform, the thing that if you get some NFTs and if we have some similar NFTs in between the community, then once I'm connected to a new social network,
the the this social network can make a group directly make a group with me and all those people. So, for example, for example, the image in that you we all have some diploma and those diplomas are NFTs.
And when I create a new account on LinkedIn, well, I'm directly added to a group of all of all of the of all of those previous students to this to this school.
This is for me a really interesting use case of web free of web free in in social media. And more recently, it's more about focus of focus of frames and lens open actions.
So basically, you have a general feed on social media. And on the post, you can directly do some actions like web free actions.
For example, you can meet an NFT directly on this post. You may vote on some governance proposal. You can do all those things. So for me, this is really interesting because we are bridging social media with web free features.
And yeah, this is quite interesting.
Cool. Thank you. Oscar. Yeah, if I could go ping pong to you. Definitely. Yeah.
You know, I'd say privy is a big proponent of a lot of the social fight trends that we've seen in, you know, the last call it six or seven months.
You know, friend tech has obviously been, you know, an amazing launch from our side. But even, you know, being able to incentivize transactions and like what Maxine said, you know, for a lot of our customers in the social fight space, like being able to take very native actions for usage
that we see as, you know, pretty mainstream was very unlocking for the industry. Being able to, you know, onboard people who, you know, have tried in the past to set up like a metamask or point based wallet, ran into friction, weren't able to.
But this time we're able to, you know, kind of come around, look at Google or Twitter as off options and be able to, you know, create some sort of mechanism behind that to interact with the application was very, very interesting from our side.
Yeah, I have a little question for you Oscar. Is it possible? I think yes, but if you can confirm this, is it possible to sponsor some transactions?
So, for example, I'm a user, I don't have a wallet. So I connect on the Seaborg app. Thanks to privy, I get a wallet. And then is it possible for the company like Seaborg to sponsor transactions?
So basically that the users do not have to pay some fees, because this can be a game changer in terms of user experience.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, the concept of gas and abstracting it away is definitely the vision that we see going forward for the user onboarding kind of space.
The short answer is yes. Yeah, we work with, you know, different providers to be able to solve for that use case.
You know, traditionally, you know, we've seen a lot of people go the relayers route with 4337 coming out early, you know, last year now, a lot of our customers have also set up integrations using paymasters.
So yeah, you know, we'll work with, you know, a myriad of vendors, and, you know, figure out with each individual customer, like what is the right setup that they would like to have in place.
Cool. If I can bounce on that, I'm a little bit curious about how you're, because you guys, actually, both of you guys are building on web to for profit companies.
At the moment, it could be X, but as you mentioned, you could say Google, you could say NASA, you could say all of these big guys.
How are you going to be making sure that it's sustainable and that it will always kind of be working? Because at the end of the day, if suddenly X decides that they don't want the activity anymore, how does that impact your whole business?
But just a curiosity, can you clarify what you mean? They don't want the activity anymore. The last part. So let's say let's say they close down their API's to the or like not necessarily close down because that would be pretty difficult.
But let's say suddenly they say that they don't want to be connected to web training or a little bit like Riot Games.
How would it work or how would you make sure that you could scale onto something else that would accept it better quickly?
Got it. So this is from the customer, like our customer perspective. They can see more applications.
Yeah, so if they decided they didn't want to be, for example, in crypto rails anymore or decided to completely pivot the project.
I think two main ways. One is we're aligned with if our customer grows in terms of their end user account, whatever, we kind of grow with them. That's one side of it.
The second is it is a purely self custodial wallet that I'd mentioned out of a lot of other wallet providers.
So then being the end user will always have the opportunity to take their wallet out of the system. And that's part of the ethos of how we built it.
So being able to exit the system whenever they'd like.
That's amazing. It's a safety for people first. That's cool. Nice. Thanks. Maxime, how about you? How difficult and how sustainable do you think building on Twitter X is right now and how do you see it for the future?
Yeah, I definitely think that you have a trend that is building on top of Twitter. You can take a look at FriendTech. You can take a look at Mask Network, what they are doing.
And even us, I mean, we are referencing to the spaces. People can connect with the Twitter account. So the thing is, of course, there is a risk.
The thing is, we have some plain BCD if this happens. And then I think we may have some changes in the future regarding those API.
But the thing is, in general, it may be more interesting for them. For example, if I let some people connect with Twitter, well, they get some information on, OK, I know that those people are connected to this and this platform.
The same with Google and Apple. And so they have a lot of information on us. And I don't necessarily think that it's a good thing, but I think it's positive for them.
And that's why they will let this like that. But yeah, definitely interesting. And I think we'll have a big trend coming on this.
And even with what we do with, for example, our dashboard and the points, with what Portal Coin did, kind of similar. And many people are using Twitter as kind of a layer.
If you take a look at Xred, that is a project also near Swissborg. And yeah, many projects are building kind of on top of Twitter or with integrating some Twitter features.
Nice. Are there any social five projects that you look up to and that you think, oh, wow, what they're building is amazing. And there's definitely a lot to learn from them.
Yep. Maxime, do you want to take that one?
Awesome. Yeah. You know, I think I think the friend tech launch was very interesting. I think it showed it gave a lot of market awareness to the type of onboarding flow that you can set up and enable companies right to, you know, whether it be email, Twitter or find different ways to engage end users.
So that's one. I think there's been, you know, a number of social five apps that have come out in kind of the last six to seven months.
And when I when I think about social five, I try to think about like the end utility for the application. So one of our customers as an example, like talent protocol, they've got an app called builder five.
But that one's really interesting. It's kind of the original idea was based on goal setting, being able to incentivize friends to achieve certain goals.
And then, you know, as a kind of subset of the idea, also creating like a Q&A marketplace that you can make sure that, you know, you can structure the right incentives for people in place so that they can actually achieve the goal.
But, you know, very one of the number of interesting ones that I've seen.
Yeah, interesting. Well, for me, I'm really looking into I mean, I tested out friend tech and it's for me, it's really interesting.
The one of the first social fight that really kind of yeah, at some point, everybody was looking at it. But I'm much more bullish on what will what will come with a lens and focus or because I think the earth of social fight is having social graph is having permission as data.
Web integration with like open actions focus frames or all those. And so I'm quite bullish to, for example, orb, which is an application based on on lens.
And on the other end, you have a webcaster, which is the kind of the similar thing, but on for caster. So I'm really, yeah, I'm really bullish on them.
And I think that at some point, when everyone will launch a token, like when lens will launch token, when focus room may launch token, when all those will launch token, I think we'll have a really, really big kind of wave on these domains.
So yeah, we're really looking for further.
Yep, totally agree with that. I'll just yeah, I wanted that. Like, I think that forecasts or lens community has some of the, you know, the best builders in the space.
So it's really, you know, awesome to see, you know, there's those communities flourishing.
And yeah, like enabling even people who, you know, sit in those communities to be able to access dApps, you know, through like their profile or like reputation that they built in those certain communities is important to us.
So like, for example, being able to sign in with far caster is something that we just came out with this week. But, you know, really enabling people to further interact with other dApps with like existing in a reputation account.
Yeah, thanks. I think something that's that's interesting that made me think while you were while you were answering is, is you guys at the end of the day are making sure that that social fire and or actually just blockchain in different contexts and just buying and selling coins are more intuitive to people.
Because what you can what you can help doing is is onboard anyone onto a social fire app that might be a little bit complicated that would require, you know, connecting to a wallet bridging maybe and just connecting with with an account that's completely web to and start to to interact with it.
So how did you how did you come about with with that idea? Is it is it because you were sometimes on web free thinking was too difficult or is it because you saw an opportunity and you were like, okay, this is something that has to be done.
And where did where did you get the idea for for Privy?
Yeah, I think it's it's a great question for Henry and Austar our founders.
You know, I, the way that I would summarize it and how I see it is it's it's a dire pain point in the industry, like onboarding people who, you know, aren't necessarily natives taps.
And I think, you know, when you interact with adapt that user onboarding portion of it is the initial friction that they see.
But, you know, it doesn't it doesn't stop at just user onboarding. There's there's other frictions, like you mentioned with bridging.
You know, there's, you know, friction at times with like KYC on ramping funds in a wall. It's like making sure that it lands in like the the actual right wall that the chain is on.
So it's it's really, you know, the start of what we see as, you know, just a journey of making overall UX for applications better.
So, yeah, it's really only the start. And then, you know, we work with, you know, obviously a lot of the kind of traction providers to ease the process of gas and really cool.
You know, use cases around like four three, seven and stuff, too.
Yeah, I think we clearly lack of infrastructure and it's getting better and better with projects like like Privy, which is cool on the onboarding side.
But we need to explore a lot on sponsoring in-app fees and all the things that you mentioned with bridging and all those.
And one other thing that I may add is and this is kind of a pain that we that we have at Seaborg because the app is kind of coming soon.
So we need to discuss with, you know, Apple and Google and all those guys.
And those guys are kind of horrible. It's really a pain to talk with them to to release an app.
And I think if we can, let's say, have a better flow with them, then it will be much easier to create some application to do many things.
And then, yeah, then more adoption for for web free.
Yeah, yeah, I think Maxine, that's that's a really good point that you brought up.
And I think it's, you know, it's one of the challenges that people will see as more and more customers move to eventually native apps.
And I think it's part of the reason why you see so many like PWAs come up as well.
But, yeah, that's definitely a good issue.
But I mean, like for, you know, customers that that we really, really love being able to like bring native actions like mainstream usage like Seiborg specifically is a very, very interesting use case on like, you know, being able to engage interaction between the actual podcaster as well as the fan.
So a very unique take and like a very cool use case.
And in terms of technology, as you guys are working on, on actually just smart tech and new tech, are they change other chains that are easier to build on than others and where you guys would be favorable or think that social should be leading towards because
for example, I don't think that you could really incentivize much on ERC 20 might be a little bit too costly at the moment if you were to like give points on chain to everyone that gives a like or retweet or something.
So is there change that you guys think will win the social fight battle just like there's a game fight battle at the moment with, for example, Avalanche and Polygon.
Do you think that there's a social fight war that's going to be coming up with the rise of social fine and is there a specific chain that's going to be that's going to be winning it according to you?
Yeah, it's an interesting question.
The thing is, I think we will have kind of an oligopoly like we've basically everything.
But the thing is, yeah, I see polygon like like a really interesting one.
I mean, I'm a little bit biased because we are building on it.
But I see also many chains like linear and many new layer to the test coming and well, so it's interesting, but it's not enough in general.
So you see, for example, lens that is doing earlier free, which is named Momoka.
And the goal is to get to reduce the cost of every time transactions and all those, because even on polygon, it's not enough.
And it can cost a lot for, yeah, for people, because when you do some transaction on lens, basically, you don't pay.
And so they need to pay for you.
And if you have a lot of people that are doing some like comment and interactions, basically, it can cost a lot.
So the layer free may win the battle.
I actually think Maxime is onto something here.
But from the privy side, we've seen a bunch of our customers over all the course of a lot of the L2s that exist.
Obviously, we spent most of our time within EVM, but there's other chains that are coming up that are very interesting.
So it's part of our core mission to be interoperable across different L1s as well.
Yeah, that's definitely going to be going to be maybe not necessarily a challenge, but definitely going to be interesting to work on how to be interoperable and scalable at the same time in something that moves as quickly as blockchain.
Good luck on that front, because it's not something everyone can do very easily and swiftly, let's say.
I was wondering also, we've talked a lot about this on you guys' side as builders.
But in terms of like the creators, how do you think they can leverage the technologies in SocialFi to maybe even monetize their own content in new ways or different ways?
What do you think is possible in the future for people like us that create as well as build at the end of the day?
Maybe that one's for Maxime first, putting you on the spot.
Well, so a lot of things to say on this, but I will try to make it short.
Basically, so you have my general view on the subject, which is at some point Web3 will be used to have a better monetization for creators.
And what is even more important for us is not only the monetization, but that they own their content and they own their community, meaning that maybe if you take a flash in 10 years and you have a YouTube channel with one, 10 million followers and you're making a bunch of money,
maybe you will be able to go and to watch your bank and put your YouTube channel as a collateral and then make a loan.
And this could be really, really amazing.
So I think that ownership for me is even more interesting than monetization.
But of course, monetization, I mean, we need to do to work on this because if you talk to many people that are doing some space today, their way to monetize content, they do not directly monetize their community.
But they do kind of B2B services.
This is the 80, 90 percent of their revenue.
And so the thing is, this is the general overview.
The thing is, if you look at many app on SocialFi, all those apps will tell you that they try to tackle monetization issue for creators.
And at some point, that's also what we want to do.
But the thing is, we will not start from there.
We'll start from kind of the opposite and try to attract users.
For example, if you take a project like Nansen, you see Nansen, which is an analytics dashboard.
The thing is, they don't need to go and talk to Arbitrum, Optimizum or like any blockchain to get their community on Nansen.
Why? Because they provide enough alpha and news and tools and everything.
And that's why people come.
And then that's at this moment that Arbitrum, Optimizum will go and look at them and maybe try to do something with them.
So this is kind of exactly what we try to do at Seaborg.
So developing a lot of features for creation.
Yeah, for creation for people, save time.
And basically, yeah, but basically we have two features on this wallet based recommendation that I explained earlier.
And the proof of support, which is kind of a way to delegate your token to creators.
And thanks to those tokens delegated, well, those creators will gain invisibility and will take a part or let's say a share of the revenue generated in the app corresponding to the amount of token that people delegated.
So yeah, for us, the user point of view is more interesting to start.
But yeah, what about you, Oscar?
Yeah, I think the ownership part to me is very interesting.
And I think there's been apps that have explored that revenue part as well.
I think in reality for this to take off, both have to come together.
I personally see on this side of creator artist type of space, if you're able to generate true obsession with a fan base,
that's probably the community that will give you the most type of utility longer term.
So that's, I think, part of it.
And then when there's a world where you can get experiences based off of reputation in certain apps, it opens like a very, very interesting part of Web3.
Even being able to go be in a certain app like Medallion, have lists of artists that you have discovered early and being able to carry that reputation to an app like Sound is a pretty incredible unlock.
Cool. Yeah, I think also it goes in line a lot with the whole concept of blockchain.
It's one of the first assets where you really own it from ATC.
There's not someone who's going to be blocking your transactions or saying this isn't yours or you have control.
Then again, you don't always have 100% control.
But let's say most of the time you have control over your assets.
What I mean by you don't always have control is that blockchains can sometimes freeze for a bit.
I know Solana had that problem in the past.
Or if you're at a centralized exchange, it can also happen that you're not able to use your account there anymore.
But at the end of the day, you're still the owner of all of the assets that you have.
And it's probably also a good thing that this concept moves on to different sectors.
So we have GameFi where recently, I think it was Blizzard that said that you have to get used to not owning the games that you buy, which is insane.
But also, for example, music where you don't own the music unless you buy the CD.
So it could be nice to have other companies like Olgius that do the work of ownership and music, entertainment, and then also obviously social fine.
So it's really cool to see that the blockchain is really bringing its core roots and reasons onto different places where we didn't know it was possible.
And to me, it reminds me a little bit like when Uber just started destroying the taxi industry and taxi were like, hey, wait a second, how can they do it so much cheaper?
Well, the reason is because you're taking a fair margin and it's not cool for the people and the people see it and someone found a better idea.
And now the better idea is taking over.
And yes, it's a little bit scary.
But, you know, SocialFi, GameFi, DeFi, all of these things at one point will have to thrive.
And the sooner that we're able to understand and use them and the sooner we're able to simplify them, the sooner it will actually happen.
So that's why it's really cool to have you Oscar here simplifying all of these difficult concepts that are for a lot of people.
If you're not DeFi native, if you're not someone who's very tech, you might not be able to use, for example, Leinster.
It might be too difficult. I know, for example, I don't think my mom would use Leinster.
She'd have to create a metamask. She'd have to figure out which chain, how to deposit, where to buy, do two KYC.
And there's a simplification there where you're able to be interoperable.
And then, Maxime, you're actually building the concept, the SocialFi platform where people will be able to use the service.
Actually, you guys combine very, very well in that sense.
How do you see the next steps for SocialFi?
What are the big important things for you?
Is it maybe intuitiveness to make it as easy as it is for people?
Or is it maybe to make it more gamified and interesting?
Or is it maybe to have a way to to poach out of people or just to build on the already existing platforms and make it so interesting that now people want both?
What do you think are the next important steps for mass adoption?
I think for mass adoption, the end goal, and I love the example that you brought up with someone's mom being able to interact with a Web3 application, that is the end goal.
My dream is, in a year or two, people can go to an app, not even know that there's blockchain and Web3, all of that is put under the hood.
They're able to not necessarily even have to interact with NFTs, but interact with it like any Web2 application.
I think there's a number of UX advantages that still need to be put in place around embedded wallets and then how you do a lot of the more financially oriented part of the apps.
That's, I think, going to be the two, three year out vision.
Yeah, on my side, I'd say, basically, a little bit of gamification is interesting.
Having a token is also interesting because when you are releasing a new application, basically, the first thing is that people don't want to download a new application because we all have too much application.
So the thing is, having a token is a way to kind of bypass the way of, well, why I should download this application.
So I think gamification, a little bit of incentives.
And of course, we talk about it, but better and better infrastructure.
And yeah, maybe to finish, I think we need that the project that I'm building today, they need to find a kind of a sweet spot that is a bit different than what Twitter, Instagram, TikTok and all those are doing.
That's all the projects that are doing that are kind of copy pasting those socials.
Well, for them, it will be extremely difficult because on my mind, you cannot compete with Twitter or you cannot compete with Instagram or all those.
So I think definitely having a specific spot to work on is a good bet.
Yeah, being a little bit niche and having your own USB is super important.
But it also is probably possible to compete with the big guys because if you take examples from the past, once again, no one thought that Nokia would be falling against Apple.
And today, Apple is the biggest company on the planet.
No one thought IBM would be number two.
Well, it's not even number two in the NASDAQ, but no one thought it would stop from being number one from the NASDAQ.
Everyone was using Facebook, MySpace.
So, you know, these big guys sometimes they do fail.
And even with the example we had earlier of Evergrande.
So I'm wondering if one of these days, it's one of these new upcoming social media, social fi apps that will be taking over and that will be kind of the norm.
I don't think that's any time soon because obviously, as we were mentioning, there are a lot of barriers still that needs to be solved and that you guys are working on.
But it's definitely something that's possible.
It's a very exciting thought.
Maybe to close off the space, we could try to have one small question about what you guys are looking forward to the most in your own projects.
So, Oscar, maybe I'll let you start.
What are you looking forward to the most?
What are you building that you're really excited about and you want to share?
Yeah, I think, you know, we're as a company, you know, developers are obviously our customer base.
So being able to enable them to, you know, set this up in a very, very developer friendly way is one of our core priorities.
The other priority that's just as important is having, you know, security be the most top notch in the industry.
So we're always working on security features.
I'd say I'd say product wise, like interoperability between chains, which, you know, a lot of apps still need to do in the industry.
Interoperability around like actual assets and wallets and being able to interact with different applications within consumer crypto is very important.
That's probably, you know, I think the the grandest, you know, most interesting vision that we're working on.
Yeah, great. And, yeah, for us, definitely at Seaborg.
The thing that I'm the most excited about is clearly wallet based recommendations.
So this is kind of kind of difficult to do because we need to do kind of a speech to text model.
So you need to take a space, convert it into text, and then you need to extract some to extract, for example, some tag like Ethereum, Sidus, XBorg, Bork, Token, all those.
And then we need to match them with with what users hold in their wallet.
And then if we go even further, it could be amazing if we can give a timestamp.
So basically, if I tell if I tell you, oh, guy, you have some bulk to continue wallet, you should listen this space between three and five minutes of the recording.
And this is why you will get the alpha because this way you I will I will save you some time.
You will get the alpha. And this is really game game changer. And this is really interesting.
And from what I know that many people are doing this. So I'm really, really bullish on this.
And I'm really thankful also to my to my team because all this is possible thanks to them.
So, yeah. Cool. Thank you guys so much.
I'm really looking forward to everything you two have to build.
Well, right. We're going to bring tonight's adventure to a close.
I'm going to thank Oscar and Maxime for having joined us. It was it was really, really interesting.
And definitely we've learned a lot about social five. Really looking forward to to the whole sector evolving.
And also, before we before we end, actually, I was thinking there is some alpha to be taken out of this of this space.
I think I'm going to put Maxime on the spot and tell him, can you give us some alpha before we go?
Yeah, sure. I like giving off this. This is kind of the value stream of Seaborg.
And yeah, we actually we have a big announcement to make. So tonight we are releasing or light paper.
So so it's great. And yeah, it should be it should be released during the night.
So I'm really this happy to have some feedbacks to discuss about it on Twitter, on Discord.
You can join us. And also, if you want to if you want to to have the application, because the app is coming really soon.
Also, I cannot give some dates here, but kind of a topic, the topic of the moment.
So basically, if you want to get the app first, you need to go connect your Twitter on your dashboard and you will get some codes for the application.
Depending of your your XP on the dashboard. So those were the biggest XP will get the application first.
And then you will see interesting stuff continuing in the application.
Cool. Looking forward to this. Thank you again. Thank you, Maxime, for the alpha.
Thank you for your presence. Thank you, Oscar, for your knowledge. It was super interesting.
I'm going to get some food. I'm getting hungry and I hope to see you guys somewhere in the crypto sphere or in another space.
So thank you and see you soon. Of course. Thank you all. Bye. Thanks.