Don't know if you all can hear me
Yep, can hear you. Okay. I can hear you fine. It's an audio check. I guess so obviously we're not gonna start yet
we still have some guests waiting to join us and
Yeah, we'll just wait a few minutes
Can we get maybe one more tweet out that this is starting
Hey, we're just gonna give a couple more minutes for some of our guests join and also for more folks to filter in
Okay, um, this can be recorded so I mean I guess I guess we'll just get let's get started
You know people will probably join as we as we you know, kind of go through the this the agenda today
So anyway, I just want to welcome everyone to decide Mike by Bankless Dow episode 2
I'm your co-host regular Merrick. I used to be professor Merrick, but I don't teach anymore
So that's how I became regular Merrick a bit of a joke about myself
I'm also joined by co-hosts Aaron McGinnis and also crypto shrimp PhD who is behind the Bankless desai account
On this week's episode. We've got honored guest Renee Dows from silk
Which is an account management system that is helping desai organizations collaborate and operate
Later on we'll be dropping some alpha about desai activities that eat Denver including a hacker house and a special live episode
Of desai Mike that's going to be live from the Denver. So stay tuned for that
You know talk to our guests
Yes. Hello everyone. I'm super excited for this conversation silk has
Been doing some amazing things and is at a really exciting point right now starting to get a bit more
Traction, so i'm excited dive into this conversation today
Yeah, me too me too, um, so uh Renee, uh, tell us about silk
Yeah, absolutely. And thanks for having me
Uh, so silk I think to fully understand silk you really need to understand hollinum
And I think what's really special about hollinum is that it's one of the og desai projects. They've been building
Consistently for about four and a half years now
Uh is a zk identity solution. It's a protocol that lets you build
Right now they offer a proof for
Government id verification. They also offer a proof for phone verification
And they did a custom use case
a couple years ago for a us residency verification
silk is really sort of the culmination
that the hollinum team ran into trying to create a
Good user experience for zk protocols and products
And what's exciting about silk is it's a fully embeddable wallet solution
It's not like a browser based application
And it only requires a email and password to log in
Um, so it's so easier grandma can use it
And you can recover your wallet trust without uh without actually knowing your password
And we do that through a process called trustless wallet recovery where you actually submit a zk proof to
Prove you own the wallet, uh without ever actually having to manage your keys
So it's a really robust solution. It's much more
Uh user friendly than a lot of wallets i've interacted with
And it comes natively integrated with hollinum so that you can actually verify
Your identity in multiple ways all from within the wallet
And that's pretty much silk and we're using this system to really help new desci projects
I think around 35 000 on-chain users now
There's a lot of scientists without crypto backgrounds
And we've got a lot of great feedback that they really like our solution because they only have to remember
An email and password which is very familiar to them
That that sounds amazing. So like
What are what are the you know, I guess like special facets, uh and and challenges, uh of like the desci movement that that you
Yeah, so I think we focus really on the identity and reputation layer
Of desci and more recently the onboarding and user experience with silk
Uh, the problems that we're really drilling down on right now are related to cost and scalability of using zero knowledge proofs
Um, these proofs typically scale linearly with users so it can get pretty expensive on-chain
Do a proof like for example
Uh, we charge around ten dollars to do a government id verification
And about five dollars for a phone number
So that is obviously not very expensive, but to some users that may be a deal breaker
So we've been working very hard on the scalability of zero knowledge
Um compared to other protocols in the context of desci identities
I mean I I guess with those costs these are like ethereum mainnet costs. Is that true?
Yeah, so what's interesting is we're actually on optimism we are on mainnet but most of our
SPTs we issue through our proofs are all on optimism
so but just the mere computational complexity of
Doing a zk circuit and proving something about yourself
Um adds up to multiple dollars even on something cheap like optimism
Um, so it's a really interesting problem to solve and in some ways layer twos are going to have to scale
When layer threes am I right
But uh, yeah, I know there's a lot of work being done. Um, you know to
Make uh, you know zk technology and cryptography like a lot more efficient. So it sounds like
You know, it sounds like there's still a lot of work that needs to be done. Um
So like, you know, uh, just just curious maybe you can drop a little bit of alpha like I mean you hinted at it
Uh, what are the kind of stuff you're working on? Um, you know
I guess besides scalability that that uh, you know, uh users can get excited about
Yeah, definitely. So I think there's probably like two things that i'm really excited about one
Is this ability to airdrop wallets we're building out a concept where?
With just an email we can actually send somebody a silk wallet and they can sign on to it
And have it as theirs and never even realize that they are getting into web 3
And the implications for that are token airdrops, uh, civil resistant token airdrops. So
We are actually working, uh with a decide project right now who's getting ready for a token launch
And they are going to require their users to verify their identity through silk
And we're actually going to airdrop them a wallet full of tokens
Uh through email is kind of the plan. So i'm super excited about that architecture. I think it's going to make airdrops
A lot more interesting and a lot more scalable to broader audiences than just on-chain users
The second thing we're working on is a quest system
So i'm also excited about this and it definitely ties in the first point around tokens is you will be able to gather
Up quests through silk wallet and acquire credits for them
Um, so we're building like a point system and we're collaborating with several others on that
Think like once we have those features ironed out over the next few months
Uh silk is really going to become sort of a full stack wallet solution
Uh for dows and for dsi and for anybody that really wants to
Quickly scale their web 3 login ability while also having the options to do things like one click airdrops
You know those those are definitely like
Um, you know, especially talking about like the onboarding challenges being able to onboard people via email
Like the the user experience in like web 3 and I guess by extension like, you know, deep dsi
um, you know, it's it's pretty jarring for folks right to have to like, you know manage their keys and and everything so
Um, you know like i'm i'm very excited for those those features. It sounds like you know, it sounds like like the future for sure
Uh, so that that's awesome. Um
Erin, um, did you did you have any questions?
chat more about kind of this intersection of getting more people
To have these different wallets kind of ease and then also kind of shift the convo into
the developer side and how different developers or organizations might be
Able to engage with silk and or any other programs or activities
You guys might be running or activating to to increase some of that use as well
Yeah, definitely. You know, I think that's a super relevant question for me. So my
sort of official capacity at silk
Um, you know obviously in startups you sort of wear a lot of hats, but my official capacity is actually developer relations
So I get to work pretty intimately with the devs in our ecosystem. I actually see
The site endow in the audience. They're
A project that is integrating silk sign-in with their application. Um, I built a forum
That actually uses silk for login
Um, we also are working with several other protocols, uh on different quests campaign
We've partnered with galaxy before
Uh, which does a lot of quests and airdrop support in the ecosystem
And we work very closely with gitcoin on the security end of things
Um, it's been a really nice relationship gitcoin tends to bring our us users
While we tend to bring them security
Um, so in terms of you know, how we're engaging the developer community
I think it's very much one dev at a time very relational based
I spend a lot of my time just talking to different products and asking them about their problems
They're experiencing and a lot of it comes down to
Well, we're still not quite sure if we're going to go with this wallet solution or if we should just use the magic link
And I find us like really well positioned to be that solution for them
Something i'm really excited about in our engagement strategy is these hacker houses we're going to run
We're actually going to start doing more virtual hacker houses. There'll be different
And then our first sort of proof of concept with this is actually going to be at eth denver for an irl hacker house
Where we're going to code for a week with?
nine different developers
And we have over 10 different sponsors
It should be a really fun time
And there's I think five or six thousand worth of prizes
And more than that for bounties from our sponsors
So it should be just like a really great way to engage the ecosystem
Yes, definitely I know i'm
excited to come meet some of the different hackers that will be at that hacker house and and
Just kind of engage with where silk is at now and how it's integrated into both the broader b-size as well as
What are some of the things you?
are personally most excited about with maybe the eventual application of silk or
Insider convos that are just in the beginning stages high level doesn't have to be super specific
Just things you're excited about right now that might might be happening in the future could be an application
Yeah, so I have sort of two answers for that. The first is a direct answer to your question
I am definitely most excited about
identify on-chain users that are
Real users that have contributed to the ecosystem
And just send them a wallet full of tokens simply through email. I think it's really powerful. There's a lot of newsletters that
And these newsletters can get pretty large
You know, I think bankless dao has around 12 000
subscribers and some have hundreds of thousands
So I think they're just going to see like a mass wave of new on borders or new users onboarding
Uh through that mechanism
probably my second most excited thing, uh technology wise
Is got to be uh this idea of a point system
so I think like points and credits and reputation is
Has been a really big topic for years now, but it's really only the last like two you've seen
a lot of progress made on it
Silk could be the wallet where you go to look at your desci reputation
And have all your badges and have all your points
And it just becomes far easier to manage than like a browser-based wallet where you're having to like
worry about losing your keys or
Your password those are things that silk kind of just eliminates
sort of other thing i'm really excited about which is less directly tech related is um
Sort of like selfishly i'm excited about silk because they actually just opened a fundraising round
officially today and they're doing
Phenomenal and have a lot of traction and backers and if all goes well i'll be actually taking a full-time role
Uh, that's very much on the down low. I just said that on a recorded thing, but that's fine
Just a random fact about me. I have been
Uh, i've had a lot of cool opportunities a lot of great companies a lot of different people have offered me things
um, so this will be the first time in in almost four years that I am
Uh pretty excited actually to work for another company and to work under
Uh someone like shoddy and nana who are both
Phenomenal co-founders and it's really technical and champions and desai
um, so that's probably what i'm most excited about that's non-tech related is just
Uh to even add a more at a larger capacity support them
Absolutely, that's super exciting and
Is a bit more exciting than I was even anticipating you being able to share. So love that
like the past few years i've had some incredible combos with shoddy in particular and
And just the vision he set out with this and the integration with hollinum is
Is really I think can have an incredible impact on the desai ecosystem and broader as well
And so i'm super excited to see how you'll be playing into that fold and just kind of
Expanding that impact to an even larger scale as well
Yeah, definitely and I think that you know working at silk has been really exciting for me because it's been
sort of forcing me to get much more competent and
Pretty complex topics like cryptography and zk circuits improves like these are very
That definitely requires some attention
And you know i'm going to be writing a lot about it and very plain language as my own understanding increases
Um, and I hope that that'll get more people excited about silk
Once they have sort of a better understanding of
Truly how complex it is. Um
thousands and thousands of line of code has been
Uh created to build silk and it feels and looks really simple because we wanted it to be
uh, but the back end is actually incredibly complex
And we're really sort of proud of that
Um that we've managed to abstract a lot of that complexity away
So just been like learning a ton about zk, uh working with silk has been super fun
And I know i'll be on the lookout for some of the different articles and things that you might be publishing on these topics
I might just take a pause here for anyone
Listening that might have questions or thoughts based on the conversation so far
Definitely feel free to raise your hand throughout this conversation. Yeah, and and we'll invite you up to speak
I'm pretty sure crypto shrimp. Uh had it had a had a question
Okay, I I I know also I know crypto shrimp, um, you know is in transit right now
So like perhaps they can't go off mute, but uh, we'll we'll circle back in a minute
Yeah, so I guess we'll uh open up to the audience if uh, you know any uh, you know any questions for uh,
For renee about silk or about you know, desi in general, uh would love to hear from you
Even if you want to talk about your own project, you know, we kind of have an open
Okay, yeah crypto shrimp, uh just heard from them on telegram, uh, apparently there's some connectivity issues hopefully, um
Uh, I know twitter spaces have had problems in the recent past. I've been on a few spaces where some people can only hear
Certain people and it's just you know, I guess uh, I guess elon musk has a lot of work to do over there
Hopefully we're getting across to everyone
um, I guess um, you know, uh until you know, we get you know, uh
Let's say brave enough are able to kind of like raise their hand so they can come up on stage
um, I uh, you know, I don't want to put you two on the spot, uh, erin and renee, but I know you were uh planning a special
episode of uh desi mike, uh live from uh,
Denver, uh, did you uh, do you want to say anything about that or are there other details available yet?
Again, I don't want to put you on the spot
Will be finalizing and announcing the time for that. Um, probably in the next day or so so
Anyone listening and definitely be on the lookout for that and
Yeah, we'll just be having a space where that in real life or in person element will be added
added onto the stage as well and
Also covering some of um the happenings in the desi space that will be
Occurring at each denver. There's an incredible lineup this year across a handful of different orgs
really taking charge on different events over the course of
and a really great gathering of people in desi and also
invitation for people that might be newer to the space or
Come connect with some incredible builders and leaders in the ecosystem as well as uh
Start checking out what some of the different opportunities desi holds
Renee any any other thoughts on either the happenings in denver or um
Or just kind of this combo or any additional details on what's happening from a silk
Yeah, definitely. So I think like i'm i'm super excited to do that. Uh space to cover
Uh the desi summit as well as the silk hacker house
Um, as you mentioned like it's an incredible group of people there's going to be
dozens of speakers tons of side events and after parties and
You know, it's always sort of a a really huge feat of human coordination every year to see this
Conference comes together. I don't think a lot of people in desi and certainly not in crypto realize
A lot of these giant global events. There's like less than 10 people that really make it happen
And they're not getting paid and they've been doing it for years
I mean when we put on the first
desi summit, uh, which used to be called just desi denver
It was three years ago and there was only a handful of people organizing it and it's since grown to like a huge network
Um, and that's been really cool to see
Related to specifically the silk hacker house. We're going to be covering a lot of the projects. There's
Incredible projects, uh that are coming to hack with us. We're really
Really proud and honored of all the applicants we had we had
Uh nearly 30 applicants we selected nine
Uh, which is three more than we planned to take so we actually ended up getting a second house for the staff
Uh just to clear up bedrooms
Um, and we plan to do interviews with those people we plan to cover different use cases that are being built
And overall, I think it's just going to be a very engaging twitter space and
I think my goal is to help people feel like they got to be there
Sounds incredible. I I wish I could be there this year. Um, but uh, you know, hopefully everyone else has a great time
And I did get a dm, uh from uh crypto shrimp. Um dm the question that i'll just read out
Renee, can you say a little bit more about the uh intersection and like relationship, uh between
uh silk and uh hollow is it holonym
I think it's hollow. Yeah
Yeah, exactly. You already you touched on it before but like maybe you can we dive a bit more deeply into that
Sure, and you are definitely saying it, right
So like let's separate them first. So holonym
And front-end application that lets you issue proofs
data points about yourself
Uh, we did phone number and government id as initial use cases because we thought they were
Pretty simple pretty scalable and pretty effective
holonym acted as sort of a desktop application
Or a browser application for like the longest time
And the ux wasn't the best. It was certainly smoother than a lot of other apps that you see in this space
But it wasn't super mobile friendly
And you still had to deal with logging in with a traditional web3 wallet
Uh, so you had to manage keys. This was a big problem for people because if you verify your unique
Uh with say a phone number
And then well what happens if you lose
Access to the wallet where your soulbound token is and now
The only wallet you have that's proven your phone number
Is with a wallet you lost and our users were complaining about this, right? They're saying hey
And now I can't access my wallet. Can I can I redo the verification or could I move the verification to a different wallet?
And it's like the answer is no that's like the point right? It's a non-revocable
Zero knowledge identity proof. So you're proving who you are in a privacy preserving way
And you can only do that with one wallet
um after getting sort of complaints about this
For the for a time being we decided to build silk
And so let's look at silk separately real quick and then we'll talk about that intersection
So silk as I mentioned is a fully embeddable wallet
What that means is it's not a browser plugin. It's not what they call like an oh snap wallet. It's not an eoa wallet
It is a fully embeddable application. So anything you're building
Silk can be an iframe for it
And I think developers really like that. It's super simple to be able to integrate silk. So that's a big selling point for us
The second is just the user interface is very intuitive. It's very linear user flow
Uh, and then the third thing is that it's far more secure and robust, right people are not if they lose their wallet
They're not going to have to worry about remembering a seed phrase. All they have to do
Is prove they're unique by scanning their id in a privacy preserving way and then they can get their password recovered
Um, these features sort of eliminate a lot of the gaps that hollinum had and like the ideal user experience
So looking at the intersection of this
privacy preserving security measures
Intersect with a wallet that's so easy your grandma can use it
And this is really important because as the user basis for crypto increases
There's going to be a lot of people coming into this space that don't have good opsec
Backgrounds. They're not competent in you know, securing their wallet or securing their keys
Um, so having a solution that allows them from the gate to not have to worry about those things
To be able to prove their identity on chain
And I think that's really kind of the summary of the intersection between the two
Yeah, it sounds like a really powerful application of uh
Zk technology. I mean maybe for those folks that you know are are still kind of like learning about it. Uh, they used to call zk
Uh moon math because it was sort of like this this magical thing
Where you know, you can you can prove some
um, you know, uh, sort of like statements or attest some
You know features about data without revealing the data itself, right which is that is actually really powerful
So it sounds in this case that you know among other things zk is being used to
Uh, sort of you know for for people to prove that they are them right sort of speak so to speak or at least a unique person
So I think that that's a wonderful application
Yeah, and one thing we're seeing, uh that i've actually been working on is integrating this technology with attestation
I've been really intrigued by ethereum adaptation service and just the
Sort of universal data schema they propose
I actually built sort of a use case where you could token gate attestation's
and what I mean by that is
Uh only verified users can post and to become a poster you have to receive
attestation's from existing verified users
And only those who have proven uniqueness through holinum can give attestation's
So now you have like this multi-layer reputation approach to verifying a user's uniqueness
That's based off not only a syllable resistant zk identity, but also a peer-to-peer attestation network
You're going to see a lot more of these types of u cases where you have like a zero knowledge protocol
with some sort of attestation protocol
Combined together to give like a really robust experience
Yeah, that sounds like a very a very interesting application as well
I mean, you know back in in my day a long time ago
Right before before sort of zk we used to call these things webs of trust web of trust
but like I think that the uh
That the concept has has been evolved and improved significantly with especially with the kind of stuff that you're doing at silk
Um, you know with also applying zk cryptography. So that's that's excellent
So, you know, I think we've had a few more people kind of like join us
um, if uh, if you have any questions for uh, renee
activities that eat denver including hacker house
Or or and and or silk right? Um, you know, please raise your hand. We'll invite you up on stage
uh, or if um, you know alternatively if you know
Kind of like the open mic vibe if anybody wants to come on and sort of you know, give give an update
Um on what they're excited about in desai including their own projects they're working on. I mean, this is this is your chance
So, uh, yeah, please raise your hand to anyone if you're brave enough to come on
They just really want to hear me keep talking about silk is what it is
I I think so. Well, we did get we did get one request here. Uh, so we'll invite up
Our code I should be able to speak
Your speaker now go ahead. Oh, hi. Uh, hey guys, um
Yeah, i'm marco and i'm i'm a huge fan of what uh, what renee is working on and what?
Um the silk and holonym team are working on
attendant of the silk hacker house
we're gonna be hacking for uh
for our project beside and down which is present here as well
so my question to you guys is
um, very it's my first time at eat denver and
I signed up for all the events at desai summit
But when i'm looking at that list, it is quite
What are the top three events?
Someone like me who was co-founder a bit on technical side really should go to
That's a hard question i'm sure everyone has opinions i'm i'm gonna take a stab first, um
I am spending most of my time at three events
Um, one is obviously the desai summit
i'm gonna prioritize talks
Uh from people I know just to support them and i'm happy to like
DM you more details on those
I'm also going to go to deepen day decentralized physical infrastructure networks. It's
It's just for one day and it's happening the same time as desai summit
So i'll have to figure out the balancing effort there
Uh, but deepen day for sure
And then the other one that i'm going to is the proof of data summit by ceramic
Uh ceramic is a proud partner of ours and a sponsor of the hacker house
Um, so we definitely want to support them and it just looks like a really fun like data geek
Event so those are the three i'm gonna do and then i'm gonna spend most of my time just at the hacker house building
I have no plans to do any other events and i'm very excited about my very focused
Strategy in the past. It's sort of been like attend everything and get burnt out by the end of the week
Um this year it's a little bit more tactical and that's sort of my suggestion
Yeah, i'll definitely second the
There's so many incredible events and people and things happening
at eath denver and at desai summit and
Lose that focus or get burnt out. So definitely coming in with
um, some intentionality can can go a long way to
Keeping one's own like personal energy high and being able to
Really get the most out of their time at different conferences and this definitely extends to
Other types of events as well
I'm personally really interested in some of the events that are
kind of like adjacently connected into desai or
Some of the events like by oranova which is in the desai ecosystem
But a newer organization in the space has a much stronger presence in asia
Um, so just some of the different organizations
whether it's protocol labs types events or get coin events, um that
That are kind of connected into the desai space but also
expanded out into some other ecosystems as well and
um, that's kind of what more of my individual focus will be in addition to
Um springing by some of the different desai hacker houses the silk hacker house
And then i'll also be kind of attending on behalf of each chicago
To really build out the midwest ecosystem
In crypto and there's become a stronger interest from other organizations in chicago to make that more of a desai and biotech
hub at the intersection of web 3
Um, so i'll also be kind of experiencing my time at youth denver from from that angle as well
Just bringing different connections back to different regions
Um or organizations i'm involved with and just expanding what desai can look like
there's there's a lot of different ways to
be part of the desai ecosystem and
Of other people being in the space when they lean into what their individual passion or connection points are
It tends to become a lot more powerful. Um, so definitely recommend some of that
Either going to different events or getting involved with different words as well
Bizarre strategy that has kind of worked for me in the past, right?
Is instead, you know, like the fomo is real, right? Like, you know, if you're going to one thing you're gonna miss another thing
Uh, sometimes just like, you know tuning all that out and just like wandering around be like, oh, you know
There's this event happening, you know on the next block, you know, maybe i'll just head over there. Check it out
Sometimes even like the the the less attended events
Uh, you know a lot of a lot of time these events are sold out
Uh, sometimes i've had just really good conversations and just met like very random interesting people
At some of the less attended events. So my advice would be don't don't put too much pressure on yourself
You're living in a state of fomo. You're just not gonna have a good time, but that's I don't know. That's my old man
Anybody else want to come up? Um
I'm gonna wait till it gets uncomfortably
Long and delayed because that's the advice I got in the past. Wait till people are uncomfortable with the silence
I am one of those people that's uncomfortable with silence. So i'm gonna fill the space
um, this is unrelated to desi summit, but I just want to say that i'm moving to chicago
And aaron and I are going to be coordinating in the same city irl
And we're gonna get some serious shit done
Like chicago is going to be a crazy desi hub within the next year
And i'm so excited to be able to coordinate on the ground. I have been
A digital nomad working with internet friends since 2012
Uh, so this would be one of the first times that i've ever had the opportunity to coordinate on the ground
And i'm just I think we're going to be able to go at like a light speed
So just wanted to shout out like i'm excited to be near you aaron and it's going to be so fun
You know that that that's uh, that's a big alpha drop today, uh, that's very interesting, you know, um, I think chicago
I visited many times and you know probably after new york
I think chicago has like some of like the best energy to get stuff done. So, uh, you know bullish bullish chicago
I'm so excited for you to come to chicago. It's going to be amazing. Um, yeah, there's there's a lot of
Interest i'm seeing from either different innovation hubs and centers even different vc funds
Being a little bit more curious about possibilities in desi
So for anyone listening in here with some of those connections, um,
To talk about design some of the cool things happening there such as what's being built out with silk
Um as well as a bunch of the other orgs in the space might pique
Some of those people or organizations interests a little bit more now. I'm i'm definitely feeling a bit more
Pursuing what possibilities could be at this intersection of web 3 and blockchain zk ai
And science in a more decentralized way
Um, so yeah, unless anybody else has anything you want to say I think uh, I see uh, marty and i
Do you want to add anything?
Yeah, well, I mean I I second that uh, chicago would be the perfect place
Uh to be the desi hub or center location for desi
Co-founder of pasada and dao ayat is originally from chicago. Although I am dutch. Um, she has convinced me to
After we finish our phd we might go to chicago. So, uh in in the in the next year or so, so you might
Find each other there as well
You mentioned that one of the next features for silk and holonym is to
Allow this this airdrop of wallet
To users and then as well as containers tokens and
After you guys have implemented
That feature what can we uh, what other features can we expect from?
That you put in the hold for
After you implement this feature and more buildings
That you put in the hold for uh after you implement this feature and more building on
Like the community or people using interaction
Yeah, good question, so I think like the feature roadmap is planned out for about 12 months
Uh in that time we plan to accomplish all the things I mentioned
Uh in addition to that we are also integrating with several other promising protocols
Uh, for example, I believe there's like long-term plans to integrate with things like hats protocol
uh, we want to build like a
A safe application so you can use silk within safe very easy and not have to rely on wallet connect
And also I think we're going to be getting really deep into the weeds on this concept of humanitarian air drops
So we're really looking to partner with smaller
New desi projects that are pre-token launched that are looking
For a really innovative strategy on how to distribute their tokens
Um, and I think that's something that silk is going to take a greater role in once we have those features rolled out
Um as far as past the next year, I'm not quite sure that and that's kind of okay. Um,
I have been working with silk for about three months now and continue to be impressed with
Their roadmap and their ability to ship things
You know the direction we take will definitely be determined by probably the market as well as our partnerships
Um, and that's all i'm probably going to say about that. There are a couple other like alfa futures
That are being experimented with
Uh, but nothing sort of developed enough that's worth dropping. Uh just yet
Yeah, 12 12-month road map sounds very reasonable
I mean, you know, some projects have like three to five year road maps and you know, the space
Evolves so fast if you're you know planning to build something, you know in like five years
There's a very high chance of it being irrelevant to that point
So I think you you hit the nail on the head and you're in the right spot
You're you've come up. Um, what do you want to say?
Yeah, I thought I'd add what i'm working on I come from regenerative agriculture
And regenerative regenerative agriculture was basically created by farmers
Looking at a biological approach instead of the chemical approach as a focus
And we've worked with I guess you could say desai for many years because
We couldn't get academia in the institution
And the institutions to really do research for us on what we're working on
um, we worked first on practices on the farms and sharing ideas and then
We were lucky to be able to get some researchers that sort of left the institutions
And because they thought there was so much promise in what we were doing
That they wanted to do some research on it. Um, they saw it as a great potential for the future and
That's happened so that we have a lot to back up
What we're doing and to justify it and all of its potentials
And now our big problem is it still isn't accepted by the institutions
Or the agronomists aren't really knowledgeable about it yet
We have demand around the world by farmers that want to learn this stuff and get the information and have mentorship
So what i've been trying to do is find support to build
An open source network to connect the farmers
And get them the information and do it what we sit what we call in regenerative agriculture is within their context
Because nature works the same all around the world
But everybody lives in a different context whether it be culture economics
All those sort of things technology availability all that and we're sensitive to all that. Um
It's a matter of the desi community. I think getting into
How do we deal with the practitioners of the science?
Because that's the important thing
Um over the years it used to be I could get a lot of information
Through research work other than what we did on our own
But even that any of the stuff that is helpful to us, of course now is behind paywalls
Um farmers, especially farmers around the world and poorer farmers that really need this information
because of the paywall, so
Um, or you know, as I said the and as I realize the farming community isn't really
Aware of web 3 or the blockchain or crypto and how that could really work for them. Um
Because they just aren't part of that network and haven't been so
And they haven't been reached out to to connect so
I'm hoping we can have more connections in the future so that um
Because I think that's the goal we all have we want science
To do good for people and the planet and we want to get it to the people that really need it
Thanks, you know, I mean, I think one of the things that i'm really interested
About in defy and one of the things that you know excites me is the potential to explore things
uh, you know that are sort of like counter to
The current scientific narrative right like science is is very political. I've realized over the years
Uh, and you know like desai is definitely an opportunity to you know, look at
And goals that haven't been uncovered right by by like mainstream academia or institutions or the the incumbent so
Um totally agree with what you're saying
Uh, anybody else want to come up during this open mic sort of portion, uh, and you know
Tell us about what you're doing or or if you have any additional questions for uh
Okay, like so I I mean i've gotten a bit uncomfortable so I feel like that that's probably uh, maybe a wrap for this week
Yeah, I think we've had a really great conversation for
Anyone who will be at eighth denver definitely come find renee or myself
um or drop us a line if you or your organizations will will have a presence there and
Um, I know I would love to
Connect in person in that type of way a few other
Things that are kind of on my radar as well i'll be at deside london
Towards kind of the end of march march 23rd around then. Um, so
Location is easier for folks. That is another really great event to get looped into the deside ecosystem
So would love to connect with you there
Decide leaders or organizations listening in on this call
I'm also helping to support the deside landscape analysis. Our survey number two is still open for
Responses, so if you don't know what that is or haven't filled that out yet, um, please be on me
My handle on telegram is is the same as here if that's preferred
Um, and I would love to be able to include your organization in kind of just this
broader ecosystem understanding of what deside is and how it continues to evolve as well as different
in the space and needs and
kind of this report is really, um, just a knowledge base both for the community as well as
either outside funders or
Um protocols technologies or individuals that could be contributors
Um that might want to get involved with deside or organizations in the space
so would love to connect on on that front too, um
there are so many great ways to
dive deeper into deside and also if you're working on something and you're looking for
something in the ecosystem
Bankless deside is serving as a space to hold some of these different conversations. So
Uh, if you have a topic that you think would be interesting definitely shoot a dm there
Or to any of us up here on stage right now, and we'd love to get that conversation going with the broader community
That was a lot, but there's a lot of awesome stuff in deside. So
Uh, really appreciate everyone tuning in and listening and being part of this whole movement as well
Yeah, really a big thank you to bankless deside
Uh, americ aaron cryptoshrimp who's in the background hosting?
Uh, thanks for having me on
Yeah, thanks for joining us rene and thanks everyone for joining us
So, uh, I think that's a wrap for this week. We'll be back soon
with the special live episode from denver that
Will be announced shortly. Uh, I believe it's
Well, whatever. I don't want to say it don't want to suggest a date or time in case it moves
So, uh, anyway, we'll we'll see you all soon. Thanks. Thanks again