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SMALL CAP INVESTING: FUSE MACHINES DEEP DIVE
Recorded: Aug. 19, 2025 Duration: 2:04:24Space Recording
Short Summary
Tesla's strategic partnerships and innovations in self-driving technology signal a promising growth trajectory, while the launch of new financial products like the double leveraged ETF showcases evolving fundraising mechanisms in the crypto space.
Full Transcription
welcome in everybody let's get to it i see penny coming up i see captain ellie in the crowd definitely want to talk
some tesla today all right if you're coming in you want to speak on stage you're a tesla fan
do let me know it's been an interesting time for both the stock and the company i feel like we got
a lot more pictures yesterday of the new model y model y l uh ellie
do you think that's going to be a good seller over there in israel oh yeah definitely can you hear me
yes sir yeah definitely uh i think i was uh talking about it uh last night in uh solar space
it was 4 a.m for me so a few hours ago for you guys, 25% of all people in Israel has more than four kids
due to the fact that Orthodox Jews are having a lot of kids and also Muslims.
And we have a lot of those two in Israel.
So anyway, 25%, that's not a small number.
Obviously, that's not a big country, but it is 2.5 million.
And they are in desperate need for a six-seater.
Obviously, seven would be perfect, but six-seater will do the job.
Yeah, yeah, it does seem pretty nice.
Have you had a chance to look through kind of like the backseat room with the way it looks?
Yeah, yeah. look through kind of like the backseat room with the way it looks yeah yeah i watched the videos
the photos and um i might or might have well you know uh anyway i don't want to say anything else
but yeah i watched the videos and photos here online and it looks great it looks great and it's
seems to be bigger than the x if all the stats from x are correct. So that's exciting. And yeah, we saw the guy who walks around
between the captain seats.
Once again, it seems like an amazing product.
And I can't wait to see if we have any more in the future.
But for now, the Model Y will give us a lot to talk about.
So I'm excited for all the space.
Thank you, Will.
Yeah, for sure.
I think it's exciting to
see that. I hope that they continue to just bring vehicles that are in demand. Obviously, Tesla is
an interesting company right now, right? Is it less focused on the vehicles, more focused on AI?
There's a few different pieces to go off of. Awesome panel here today. We'll dive into all
that, plus the latest updates. And really also today, I'm excited to talk about the underlying
stock as well, which has been sitting relatively flat for about three months now. And just to get
people's thoughts on that. And I'm super excited to have Will Ryan joining us as well. He's the
CEO and founder over at Granite Shares, and they have an awesome double leveraged Tesla ETF. So I
figured, you know, who better to invite to the chat and have a conversation with us about it
so that's uh ticker tsl and i figured you know he's he's got to keep his eyes on tesla a good
amount especially when it's moving to the upside will how are you doing today
doing well thank you yeah all good beautiful beautiful uh oh sorry tslr apologies i don't
know why i said the wrong one right there. Yeah, TSLR.
I'm apparently slightly dyslexic. With that being said, Will, I wanted to talk with you a little
bit here on the space about what Tesla and TSLR have done this year because it's still down year
to date, even though it seems like this has been the breakthrough year of self-driving, robo-taxi,
larger car vehicles coming, all the things people have kind of clam-driving, robo-taxi, larger car vehicles
coming, all the things people have kind of clamored for, right? And I'm just curious to get your
opinion. Why do you think, you know, the stock is where it's at right now when you look at it?
And what's your general, more general thoughts on the company as a whole too?
I mean, I think the overall view from my perspective is more that the performance hasn't been great.
And that's obviously in the context of the amount of vehicles that were produced and delivered over the last couple of years.
So it's a combination of maybe the tide turning a little bit regarding EVs more broadly, but
we can talk about that.
The market share of Tesla and the performance of Tesla vis-a-vis some of its other competitors
and just in general in terms of the demand being softer than it was.
the demand being softer than it was.
And then I think there's still a bit of a hangover from the political stuff
that can't really be ignored.
The longer I think it goes on, the longer, hopefully,
that people will move beyond that.
But I do think that still plays a role, at least in the thinking.
I mean, I've definitely seen some of the stickers on the back of people's
cars and things about it. So I think there's that. And then the much more exciting initiatives that
people get fired up about in terms of autonomous, in terms of full self-driving,
full self-driving, next low cost, a low cost vehicle, whether it's a Model 3 variant or
et cetera, those haven't really been delivered in full effect. So I think there's still a little bit
of waiting to see how that kind of materializes. And then I think that's kind of been reflected a
little bit in the products themselves when,
at least from my perspective, as you rightly said, we've got a two times leveraged Tesla,
TSLR is the ticker. We've got a two times short TSDD. And the one thing we've probably seen
more interest in is we have a yield boost Tesla, which is taking advantage of the volatility
by selling options. That's TSYY. And that actually has probably been the one I would say
at the last couple of months or so that's gotten the most traction where people are
just taking advantage of the high yields from the volatility of the stock.
But I mean, I think it goes back to the performance.
We're not saying anything that people don't know.
The performance of the company hasn't been that great.
There's a lot of good things that we can talk about,
I think, that are coming.
They just have to materialize in a way that is real to people.
Okay, let's just double tap on that for a second. The things that are coming,
and you're talking about they have to materialize, I assume you're maybe referring to RoboTaxi
role out there? To RoboTaxi, to a lower cost, you know, the low cost Tesla,
to even things like Optimus.
There are lots of different initiatives,
but certainly RoboTaxi would be the big one that people are talking about in terms of driving revenue,
but also the low cost, whether it's a Model 3 or Model Y,
those initiatives.
Yeah, those are definitely ones we've been focused on as well.
I won't say...
Sorry, they're doing some work on my place here today.
So if I mute suddenly, it's just because I don't want y'all to have to hear that.
But Evan, I want to bring you in and then rotate around to Omar and others on the panel
and get some thoughts here on what needs to happen here.
We're, you know, two thirds of the way through the year. What do we need to see happen in the
rest of 2025? I want to hear what Omar and all of them have to say a little bit more.
As I'm looking forward, I think it's quite clearly this, this robo, this robo taxi rollout is where
this whole conversation is right now. Optimists, more stuff there is great, but that feels like a future play.
Car sales turning around, that's good.
They probably need to do that.
But at the end of the day, it's a trillion dollar Tesla, really a car company there.
For me, it's this robo taxi rollout.
And it seems to be going.
There seems to be the conversations there that like, you know, you could have asked,
when is this rollout going to happen?
How quickly is it going to be?
And we had expectations.
I was listening to Omar and Sawyer give their thoughts.
And, you know, some, and it seems like those initial thoughts are going to be met of a
sometime this year type of thing.
So yeah, to me, that's the, that's the big thing that they can end up proving.
If they can actually hit some of those milestones, 50% of the US population covered by this.
I don't know if that was end of this year, end of next, exactly what timeframe that was.
But yeah, we know Elon time.
We know how that ends up working.
And even if you put some Elon time onto it, it's the argument that Tesla is, I think,
playing on and that you'll hear on here a lot is that this autonomous future is here right now.
I find it interesting the Tesla versus Uber and Waymo.
We're really the Tesla versus Waymo when I think it's Tesla and Waymo versus everyone else and a couple others.
But yeah, I think my underlying thesis and what I've seen, and I would like to hear more from the guys who've actually gone in and driven to Guys and Girls, but this self-driving car aspect is not something that's five years away anymore.
It's pretty much here right now.
And that's a pretty big deal for Tesla.
So any proving there is good.
I think any proving from Waymo over the next little bit is also good for Tesla.
Yeah.
Yeah, Omar.
I'm excited to hear what everyone has to say.
And you've got an awesome panel here.
It's good to have Will follow him.
I also should follow all the other speakers up here.
I'm excited to hear what you guys have to say.
Just real quick, Evan, I'm curious why you think that wins for Waymo are wins for Tesla.
Do you think that just like the general self-driving sentiment is tied together that closely?
Yeah, yeah, I really do.
And I think that that's kind of what this big Tesla bet is.
Maybe if Waymo ends up working and Tesla doesn't work,
then it's bad for Tesla.
But if both Waymo and Tesla work,
that's better for Tesla because they have the cheaper option.
And I think just getting more people and butts in seats.
We talk about Tesla, this whole marketing and advertising thing.
But Waymo can go in and do a lot of that work and get people the butts in the seats.
So, yeah, I think that if both Teslas and Waymo's models work, we've kind of talked on this and I've heard everyone talk about it the Tesla's models the way they're doing is better
if you know one works and one doesn't
that's a different story but I don't think
it's a zero sum game
good thoughts guys Omar
you want to jump into the mix curious to hear everything
that you're looking at
sorry I got a repair guy here
one second oh you're good
I can relate no worries at all ryan how about
you hey wolf um yeah i think uh evan brought up a good point like waymo really is a a competitor
that is going to be doing some great things they've obviously expanded the geographies for where they
can expand their robotaxi and uh that's been beneficial to tesla like if if the nhtc tsa
allows federal regulation where tesla is able to expand their robotaxi across
different state lines then that's going to be a huge win as far as like the
future competition goes I think at least the way I think about it Waymo is
basically paying on the order of a hundred thousand dollars maybe two
hundred thousand dollars maybe even more for each of their driverless cars
because they're paying for the actual car and then they're paying to
retrofit it with all sorts of lidar radar different sensors tesla is i mean when they sell a customer vehicle they're basically getting fifty thousand sixty thousand seventy thousand dollars so the $170,000. So the difference there is $200,000 to $300,000. And I think that like over time,
that just makes a big difference. Like how many robo taxi rides do you have to sell to recoup
that difference? It's really tremendous. And Tesla is not going to slow down with their scale.
And Tesla is not going to slow down with their scale.
They're going to be able to expand to many, many more robo taxis.
And I think that advantage is just going to showcase itself over time.
As they continue to expand to different geographies like LA and San Francisco and Phoenix,
different geographies like LA and San Francisco and Phoenix, it's just going to become so clear
that the financials are reflecting what's happening in real life. And when that happens,
like there's going to be multiple data points on the Excel spreadsheet that have high margin
software revenue. And the Wall Street analysts are going to be like, okay, well, I guess
this is real. Let's extrapolate these data points out. And they're just going to get some absurd
numbers. Because really, I mean, every vehicle that Tesla sells, they're making around 18%
I mean, every vehicle that Tesla sells, they're making around 18% in margin.
But every time they sell an FSD subscription, they're making probably 95% margin.
I mean, it's really just ridiculous.
And the amount of FSD subscriptions that they're able to sell is equivalent to how many vehicles are in
the fleet. Maybe some countries won't allow it for a little while, so then that number decreases
a little bit. But in the longer term, their fleet is going to be growing very rapidly,
and everybody's going to want the full self-driving and regulations may even require
it like as seat belts first were adopted they they weren't allowed and then they were allowed
and then they were mandated and as the data continues to prove that the safety of full
self-driving is so much better, then I think we'll eventually
get to the point, at least in the United States, probably around the world where you have to
have special licenses to be able to drive. And the economics are going to reflect Tesla's ability to
have this masterful driver in the vehicle in the form of digital full self-driving.
I guess in the medium long term, I think their advantage is going to be how much manufacturing scale.
Excuse me.
Excuse me.
How much manufacturing ability they have? Like Waymo is limited because they're they're buying other vehicles.
And they're not able to mass manufacture these vehicles, electric vehicles that are smart, where they have good capable computers.
They're just not able to do that at a massive scale with good margins.
So, I mean, I just don't see how really anybody competes with Tesla long term.
In the short term, I do want Waymo to succeed and do well.
Same thing with Rivian because these are compelling products.
Like anybody who's driven a Rivian, like they recognize that this is a fun, a fun vehicle to be in.
It's a good experience.
It doesn't taint somebody's view of electric vehicles whereas previously like if there was
an electric vehicle that was a bad experience and it was the first time somebody was getting
into electric vehicle they may be super turned off and not want to experience like they may just
think electric vehicles across the board are bad vehicles but instead if they got into a tesla for
the first time or or rivian then they would probably have a good experience uh in my opinion
it's the same thing as what's happening right now with waymos like if somebody gets into a
self-driving waymo likely their experience is going to be very positive and it's not going to taint their idea of full self-driving and the same is true with
the tesla usually if somebody gets into a tesla right now their their view is going to be very
positive that's i think it's i think they're more likely to be nervous if they get into like a blues cruise
or i don't know whatever gm or ford's offering is uh you know it's kind of like the same thing
as if somebody got into a tesla full self-driving back in 2000 i don't know what was it 17 or 18.
2000, I don't know, what was it? 17 or 18? Well, now it's so much better and the experience is
just remarkably positive and they're going to continue improving it. Anyway, I'm starting to
ramble, so I'll pass it along to whoever wants to speak. Thanks, Wolf. Yeah, I appreciate that.
I actually just kind of had a question for Will off what you were talking about there,
and maybe a couple's hit on this, like Wall Street's view of Tesla versus retail's view of Tesla. And I'm curious, Will, how you see that maybe differentiating from your perspective?
not massive news to everybody that the official view from Wall Street is probably more negative
than positive. And I think there's a lot of people on the street that have always struggled
with the valuation of Tesla vis-a-vis the business. So I think that there's always going to be that
difference between, and it's not unique to Tesla,
just a good example of where the stock is probably less appreciated by Wall Street,
much more appreciated by retail. But I think going back to some of the points made,
I think that the scenario is positive for both. And I think we've got to think about the time frame. So the Waymo Tesla story, to me, it's a size of the pie argument.
Like you want the pie to be expanding.
And then in that pie, you have increased market share for both.
And I think if you just take the cyber cab analogy, then to me,
it's about the experience as Ryan was talking about,
like whether,
whether,
whether,
and it remains to be seen,
right?
Whether Tesla has to do something with Uber or not,
but everyone's so conditioned to using apps like Uber and to a lesser
extent Lyft,
but let's just say to Uber, that that experience
works really well for people. And the last mile is obviously, as far as Tesla's concerned,
or Waymo's concerned, that driverless experience. And I think that makes a big difference in terms
of how people ultimately interact with it. I mean,
from one perspective, people aren't going to care whether it's a driverless vehicle that's a Tesla
or from Tesla or Waymo, et cetera. But I do think there's a more important thing was can
Tesla develop their own network? And will that be as efficient as what uber has but i think the longer term
whether it's today or tomorrow that the future is clearly autonomous the robo taxis are going to be
a real thing um and they're going to be a big thing and i do think that there's a world where it's not just Waymo and Tesla, that there'll be other players as well. And's just about the experience and getting these on the
road. And then over time, maybe there's a difference in terms of one product versus another
and one experience versus the other, and there's winners and losers. But I think that everyone's
a winner in a world where, whether it's the NHTSA, et cetera, makes this mainstream across the country.
makes this mainstream across the country.
Yeah, those are some really great points.
Josh, I see you're reacting.
You want to jump in off that?
Yeah, absolutely.
I spent quite a bit of time in Tesla Robotaxi Network
over the past couple of weeks
and also the Ubers Waymo
and several human-driven Ubers who, ironically, my most recent one was driven by a guy who does Uber part time and actually works in the robot taxi development program here at Giga Texas.
It's been really interesting and very eye opening to see.
And I 100% agree with Will and Ryan on this, that we are moving into the autonomous age and there is going to be a period
of time where Waymo needs Tesla, Tesla needs Waymo because of regulation. I feel that there's
a really get deja vu, there's a lot of parallels to direct sales. Some of the same speed bumps
and hurdles that Tesla has been working over, getting through over the past decade with
these special interest groups
and these dealer networks and being able to have direct sales in certain states.
And we obviously are still facing massive roadblocks and pushback with these archaic organizations.
And I really think that there's a lot of parallels to these companies pioneering new technologies.
While we may go about it a little differently, whether it's Rivian or Waymo or Tesla or whoever,
they're definitely going to need to band together
to push through government regulation,
whether it's municipal, state, or federal levels.
Yeah, a lot of good thoughts there, Josh.
There is multiple pieces here especially different levels
all the different pieces that you need to kind of get approval for to move forward as well landon
you want to share some thoughts here you're darn right thanks very much wolf it's great to hear
josh bringing bringing the energy and these really good on the ground details about robo taxi and
yeah i want to just step it up a notch and talk about the
excitement of Tesla full self-driving and the latest news there. But first, just to cover your
Model YL release in China, really exciting to see a big variant of the Model Y, and my point there is that this is a trim, not a new model.
And that's important for those best vehicle sales of any vehicle in the world, the Model Y.
So if they were to split this off into a new model, that would affect that.
But now it's all going to be under the one umbrella.
As far as RoboTaxi, really exciting to see the rollout. Some people, you know, thinking it's
going too fast. Some people think it's going too slow. Elon said in the earnings call that he
doesn't expect meaningful balance statement, you know, input from RoboTaxi until Q4 of next year. So I'm not seeing a move
there by a lot of people. I know Wall Street would like to get ahead of that, but I don't
think there's real believers yet entirely there. On the full self-driving, my point today is our
conversations around full self-driving and even the today is our conversations around full self-driving and
even the definitions of what Tesla's system does. If you could see me in my driveway talking to my
neighbor, the conversation would go something like this. Yeah, my Cybertruck actually drives
itself. I just get in and kind of watch what's going on. And the guy will say immediately,
yeah, my Hyundai does that too. And I can't tell you how
many conversations I've had with other people in their cars, and everybody thinks that they've got
some version of this. But let me get real with you, they don't. They don't. Motor Trend revealed
its greed yesterday by stating that Ford's Blue Cruise is a much more confident, better system than
Tesla's full self-driving. They said that they just couldn't quite trust that Tesla system,
and the Blue's Cruise was just solid. And if anybody's taken a look at that system,
maybe you have not. It is available on very few sections of highway,
and my Tesla full self-driving supervised takes me everywhere. I've driven it all over the country
this year alone on the latest versions. And so that conversation with our friends and family,
when people say Tesla full self-driving, Tesla FSD. What do we tell people about that?
I think we should share our excitement about what it does for your life.
Because this is not a paint color.
This is not a trim level.
This is a safety system that is the ultimate luxury convenience that you can have in an automobile.
Are you kidding me?
Have we just forgotten what this actually means?
Yeah, my car drives itself. When I'm growing up in the 70s and 80s, this is the dream. I didn't
care about flying cars or things like that. This is my remote control car that I had in my basement driving around, I can do that now in real life with my Cybertruck
and the other Teslas. And so can your family and so can your friends, but I think you should tell
them about it. I think you should tell them that in the coming versions, when we're unsupervised,
you may be able to send your personal car to the daycare center to pick up your child, to the grocery store to pick up that pick and pull of your groceries.
And they bring it out and they put it in your Tesla and your Tesla brings it home.
But the safety, your full self-driving Tesla does not get tired.
It does not get tired. It does not get distracted.
It doesn't have a cocktail and then get a little sluggish in the thinking.
It doesn't have these other human foibles that cause us to kill 40,000 of our fellow
humans every year for no reason, just because we're driving around.
So the full self-driving does that for you and your family, and you owe it to everyone you know to talk about this technology
and check it out for yourself for free at a Tesla center, take a test drive, and there you are.
That's my excitement about full self-driving is because it'll save your kids'
lives or someone they know if it's used. So check it out, please. And thanks very much, Wolf.
Saving lives out here and taking back our time with driving. Yeah, a lot of great pieces and
well put there from yourself,on gonna continue making sure i hit
everyone on the panel then i'll double back around a couple others with questions that i have captain
ellie i hit you like right at the start but do you want to jump in with additional thoughts i know we
just talked about the new model y but maybe you have some as well on robotaxi or other pieces
well i mean i'm excited about everything obviously i'm on the other side of the world where we don't
have robotaxi fsd all the good stuff so when it comes to uh you know all the people from europe who just visit the state
like i think it was yesterday it's hard for me to sit here and see them coming to the united states
and sitting in the white house and have them right there and ignoring robotaxi and fsd all that stuff
obviously i'm not sure what's going on behind the scenes but when i hear
london and everybody else experiencing with robotaxi and fsd like i just like like i did
like more like a week ago almost it's just frustrating um we need it we need to save life
exactly the same way you are talking about your people in the us we want it here uh it's just
absurd and obviously the model y like the new one so we all know that the
robot taxi uh will be basically maybe next year um collided not collided but um they're gonna
operate the service with the cybercab that's what we know but the model six the model six the six
sitter model y obviously also will be perfect until the rover van or the roboven will be there
anyway all the products that we have, all the sexy lineup, all the Cybertrucks,
Cybertruck, Cybertcab, all the other things that we are,
can't wait to see coming to live.
Everything will be perfect with FSD, with Robotaxi. We're just excited, right?
We're talking here about the future. That's almost like for some of us,
seems so far away, but for some like you guys
it's already there so there's no dull moment um obviously i have nothing new to say uh there's
things i want to say i can't really talk about so i'm just enjoying the show so thank you wolf
yeah i hear you keeping keeping some of the insights to yourself over there
we'll see when we can get to hear them.
But yeah, it sounds like you know something exciting.
But don't worry, I won't press right now.
Okay, great thoughts from Ellie.
Appreciate you joining, like you said, from the other side of the world.
Tesla fans all around.
We're about halfway through the show here.
If anyone hasn't had a chance yet to just go ahead and retweet the space.
Comment below.
Evan dropped a comment asking people what their cost basis is on tesla if you want to drop that in the comments
flexor cost basis and then again big thank you to all the speakers as always up here and special
thank you to will ryan from granite shares joining us as well i think you've brought a lot of people
into the tesla ecosystem just with your products tslr tsdd i tag those at the top of the Tesla ecosystem, just with your products, TSLR, TSDD. I tag those at the top of the space
for those that are looking for another way to play Tesla. And, you know, we put both of them
up there, whether you're short or long ways to play with it on the regular. And this is a stock
that, as we know, sees a lot of volatility. So just be aware of that as you go through these
things and make sure that you're being careful with your capital. All right, Kim, I wanted to bring you into the mix, see if you had any latest thoughts on how
your Tesla experience has been going. Hello, Landon. I just always love listening to you.
You just give so much enthusiasm and always are so informed and updated. You get me so pumped up about Tesla.
So if anyone in the audience is listening,
you know you've got to go out and buy a Tesla.
By the way, you only have until September 30th.
Is that correct, everybody?
To get that $7,500, what do you call it?
Cash back or credit or whatever it's called uh for your tesla so there
isn't a lot of time left for that um i'm a little jealous i look at the new model y i love my model
y because i bought mine 2024 so it's got a lot of the updates but when i see that new model y it's
so sleek you know looking at the front bar headlight and the back bar tail. So I've
been kind of peeking around. I'm not going to get a new one right now, but you know, I'm a little
jealous of it. However, what I love about Tesla is that I don't have to be jealous about the fact
that I can get the latest software updates. And that is the most amazing thing,
in my opinion, about Tesla is every single time that they release a new software update. So
within a year that I had my Tesla, this is for the audience that might not know this,
within a year of having my Tesla, I had to have my hands on the steering wheel.
Then I updated my software and I could have my hands off the steering wheel, but couldn't have
sunglasses on to updating it again, and then could have sunglasses on. And that's the amazing
benefit is I don't have to go out and buy a new car to get the latest and the greatest. So with
the exception of the remodeled body and having that be the latest and the greatest, everything
else you get updated. And to me, that's one of the biggest advantages of buying a Tesla is that
I'm constantly going to be getting the newest
software updates and the newest features. So I love that aspect of it.
And by the way, when I go down, I go down to California a lot. And so I don't have my Tesla
down there and I'm driving, you know, one of my kids' cars and they're all big
and bulky and, you know, they don't, it's hard because I'm navigating Los Angeles and anyone
that drives in Los Angeles, Omar, you know, pain in the butt, right? I mean, I can go from Santa
Monica to West Hollywood because my kids live in both areas. And on a Friday night, it will take me literally an hour and a half.
And that's when, or hour 20 minutes, just a ridiculous amount of time to go 20 miles or less.
And that's when I wish I had the Tesla and I could just put it in self-driving because
I'm sitting there having to navigate the traffic, weave in and out of lanes, sit there
being just bored and frustrated that I'm sitting in all that traffic. So that's another thing about
Tesla is that, and that I love is that if I'm sitting in traffic, I don't have to be driving,
getting frustrated when I, in my Tesla, I just put it in full self-drive so i'm always happy to get back home so i can get back in my own car and not have to be navigating the frustration
yeah josh i'm just gonna uh sort of piggyback on what kim was saying you know we're bringing
up some fantastic features of tesla but what's something that's really hit me quite profoundly as of late is the integration of Tesla sort of across their spectrum of vehicles.
So I recently flew to Detroit and Turo to Model Y, and as soon as I got into the vehicle, all my features transferred over with my profile.
and as soon as I got into the vehicle all my features transferred over with my profile but
the same thing happens very similarly when I hop into Tesla's robotaxi here in downtown Austin
my audiobook that I'm listening to picks right back up where I left off in my own car so whether
I'm renting a stranger's Tesla I'm in Tesla's robotaxi touring around the city or I'm in my own
vehicle hopping between multiple vehicles.
I have my own personalized experience that follows me everywhere I go. And there's no
other automaker on the planet offering an experience like that. And I feel that it's
very understated. Josh, I just have to grab you on that because you and I both have a long time
legacy auto background.
And those software updates, why can't they get it right?
I was with Ford.
You were with Stellantis, Dodge Ram.
And I don't know.
Ford still does not have this down.
VW has changed from the carry-in software.
I mean, they've fired a lot of people over their software.
They can't get it right, Josh, can they? That's the legacy auto versus the real software engineering
genius at Tesla, isn't it? It is. And even something so simple as a pet mode, a dog mode,
you know, we have really, I just think it's only what Rivian. And just as of late, I think Lucid
has come out with a pet mode finally, but all of the legacy auto manufacturers, I mean, it's only, what, Rivian, and just as of late, I think Lucid has come out with a pet mode, finally.
But all of the Legacy Auto manufacturers, I mean, it's been, what, 2019, I think we got pet mode or dog mode in Teslas.
So, you know, we're over half a decade, and they have nothing for our furry friends who really play a special role in our families.
And Legacy Auto has done nothing.
That is one of the best features features too, is that dog mode.
Literally, that is a lifesaver.
And now instead of leaving my dog at home, which I really don't like to do, my baby one, I love.
And she just, I can see the camera.
She's sleeping in the car.
Perfect temperature.
And I love looking at that screen with the little dog jumping up and down going don't worry my temperature is set at x degrees so nobody break your windows
I think uh it's a really good point to bring up you know you guys mentioned a couple features
Josh you were talking about the integration between different vehicles. We're also talking about things like dog mode and software updates. And I think the part that most
people don't realize, the reason that it's so difficult for Legacy Auto to do this sort of
thing is that Tesla is completely vertically integrated. So many of the parts, their entire
computer system and everything else, they have their hands on it
from the beginning of design all the way through development and manufacturing. And what that means
is they control all the parts. If Ford is trying to add such a feature, they need to actually
cooperate with a lot of their vendors to make that happen. That's not so easy to do. All the vendors
need to get on the same page about getting the software updates to work automatically. And that's just so super hard. So Tesla's strategy of vertically integrating and
building everything from the batteries up, I think it's really paying off in this regard.
I also wanted to piggyback off something Kim said earlier. She mentioned that the $7,500 rebate
is ending at the end of September. I want to make sure that everyone is clear
that you must take delivery by the end of September, not make your order by the end of
September. So that means basically, if you're going to be getting anything other than like
the most standard of models, you should be ordering now, right? So I don't know whether
or not Wall Street is anticipating this. I don't know how many people
have done the math like I have, but I was planning on getting a new Tesla early next year, probably
February or March. But if I don't pick it up now and get that $7,500 rebate, I'm actually losing
out on money by waiting. It's cheaper for me to buy it now and have two cars until the end of that time than it is for me to wait.
And, you know, if you take the time to process that, I think that, you know, there'll be a lot of move forward purchases like mine.
I'll be getting a Tesla between now and the end of September.
Also, my girlfriend, who just two months ago didn't even like Tesla.
And now, you know, she's experienced self-driving.
She's sat down and and been in mine and now she's looking seriously about getting a model y before this 7 500 rebate ends
so yeah uh the the game changer for her was actually very funny uh who was it someone was
talking about i think it was landon landon you, you mentioned your neighbor. Yeah, my Hyundai. It has self-driving, too.
Yeah, well, she thought that about her BMW until she got behind the wheel and we were driving all the way up to San Francisco.
And the car just took us all the way there. And it's a totally different experience than any other self-driving.
It's end to end. You can cover hundreds and hundreds of miles without touching the wheel. And it's just absolutely a game changer. One more thing, CyberCab. From what I
understand, it looks like they're ramping the lines in GigaTexas for CyberCab, which I think
is super. That puts us on track to be pumping those out sometime later this year or early next
year. And I think we all know
what's going to happen to the Tesla narrative when those gorgeous gold cyber cabs are picking up
people and their doors are coming up like Lambos and people are just sitting in these comfortable,
beautiful cyber cabs with gigantic screens and no steering wheel and being driven around.
You know, it's like a completely different
experience than what you would see from a Waymo or any other, you know, sort of drive sharing
program. It feels a little bit unreal that it's going to be coming, you know, to a town near us
sooner rather than later. I felt like I was in a movie on 1010 last year when i saw a cyber cap drive up for the first time uh it was
truly stunning it really it didn't feel like earth it felt like we're on a different planet
in a different time uh but in 2025 we might start seeing those on the road and if not 2025 definitely
2026 uh so super excited always excited to be a tesla investor hey penny not to put you on the
spot or um or to put some pressure on you,
but whenever your girlfriend ready to receive some love from us because she's
now a Tesla fan, let us know.
All right.
All right.
All right.
I'll let her know.
She'll come join this space one of these days and share her conversion from a BMW
fan to a Tesla fan.
Yeah, Penny, it's really good that you put
some, you know, a little more focus on this $7,500 rebate going away. This is a really serious issue.
So I was actually in the West Austin Tesla sales gallery yesterday and had a really good conversation
with their managing director there. And she was telling me that, well, the factories are cranking
the two hottest vehicles
right now and they're they're pretty much run out of inventory in the entire austin area is the
dual motor model y and the single motor long range model three those are the two hottest vehicles
right now because of course it's you know price point uh vehicle for value basically a dollar for you know
range and all and capability and that sort of thing so those are the two hottest models right
now the greater austin area is pretty much out of dual motor model wise they're just shipping you
know right from factory type of thing so there's no inventory left laying around and this is going
to get considerably more now i don't want to say worse, because obviously it's great that we're selling vehicles, but for the potential buyer, your selection is going to drop off a cliff in the next couple of weeks.
So if you are thinking about it, like Penny says, like Kim says, make your move now.
do you think about the way that they're utilizing these incentives, ending some of them, you
know, having these transitions that's leading to demand now, what's it going to look like
in Q4 next year?
Just curious to get your thoughts.
Yeah, I mean, first of all, great, great advice there in terms of, you know, what potentially
to do if you're thinking about making a move now.
I do, I mean, I have to, I have to think, and it's maybe a bit
of devil's advocate, that this is
a little bit of a hangover from the
fallout politically,
that the incentive thing
was or has been a good thing
for the company in an ideal world.
It would have kept
that on or seen an extension
to it. Maybe
that might have changed if there hadn't
been a political fallout. Who knows? But I think it's clear that the direction of travel is here,
that people are going to get autonomous, the people are embracing the offering,
and looking forward to seeing how it develops.
Yeah, they're definitely keeping their eye on it. Outside of the robo-taxi pieces, Will,
one other thing I just wanted to ask you about, 10 ancient thoughts, is Optimus and really the
robotic side and separate from the cars and the robo taxis? And how do you think about that side of things?
I don't really think too much about it at the moment because, as I think it was kind of mentioned earlier,
it seems like something that is not quite ready for primetime.
That being said, I mean, they are talking about deploying thousands
of Optimus robots this year. We'll have to see how that turns out. But I mean, I'm really,
really excited for this. I mean, just like some of the passion that's been injected into this space
about autonomous and about robo taxis, I'm equally as passionate about the opportunity
for these humanoid robots.
I mean, I think that could be an absolute game changer.
And certainly, I would be amongst the first lining up to buy one of these things.
And I saw just actually something, there was an article, I think today, about in China, they had, or they have
some kind of, you know, Olympics or some kind of event for humanoid robots, of which there's a
Chinese version, which was doing well. So again, it's to me, this is happening. It's already here.
It's just a question of when it becomes prime time. But this could be, again, I know Musk has talked about this
in his own way
as being potentially the greatest product ever.
And I can't really disagree with him
to that extent,
to the extent that this is,
you know, it manifests in the way
that we all think it could.
Definitely.
Omar, can I bounce that over to you? Actually actually haven't did you want to jump in first
and we'll go to omar no you can go to omar i'll come in after yeah i'll probably speak a little
bit to that point they're an optimist yeah so you know i think it's been an interesting discussion
kind of the the first thing that comes to mind you you know, you work on Wall Street, which a lot of the
institutional investors do, you know, you're probably taking a cab to work, or maybe you
even have a driver, maybe you're taking the subway. And you may not realize to the same extent as
people living elsewhere in the country that, I mean, we don't drive anymore.
If you have a Tesla, you can literally, you know, last night we had to go somewhere.
We literally got in the car in our garage, typed in the name of the place, pushed a button.
The car pulled out of the garage, closed the garage, pulled onto the street, took the highway,
took surface streets, got to the destination and parked. And we just walked out of the car. Now,
you know, granted, obviously, you still have to supervise it. It's not to the point where
it's going to be a fully driverless car. But over in Austin, they actually have, you know, their rideshare service launched.
They've got their app sort of out there and you can call a car and it'll come to you without a driver.
And what you'll see most of the time, you know, they do still have a safety monitor in the front seat, which is not a full autonomous robotaxi experience.
But what you'll see is that, you know, sort of most of the time, the car is able to do the entire
pickup and drop off by itself without anybody who's a human doing anything. So I think this is much less of a future thing as most people, I think, on Wall Street expect.
This is something that people are actually using quite a bit.
I think they have more than four and a half billion miles.
Just in the last quarter that they reported, they added about, you know, 900 million miles on customer cars.
And yeah, I think obviously the future is going to be autonomous. I mean, you look at Waymo,
Waymo is now doing millions of rides a year here in the United States without any major safety
incidents. I mean, there are little hiccups here and there. You probably see some of them go viral on social media, but you look at assessments, even, you know, sort of independent third-party
assessments, and, you know, they show, for example, you look at the Swiss reinsurance study,
they show a reduction of injury-causing accidents by 90%. And most of the accidents these driverless cars get in, it's really
usually somebody else's fault. So I think there's enormous promise here. That's kind of really the
high order bit is that we're sort of moving into an autonomous future. And what's happening in sort
of the EV market where you had, you know, a little bit of an EV bubble, I think, where people got a little bit too excited about the adoption of electric vehicles.
They said, wow, this is taking off so fast. Let's just extrapolate that out. And I mean, the whole auto market's going to be EV in a few years, right?
And what we're seeing is now there's been kind of a change in the tide. You see a lot of those legacy automakers pushing back. A lot of them have actually put EV products onto the market. There's a lot of Chinese EVs. And so Tesla's core auto business has been seeing sales decline as a result of some of those factors, as well as others. Gas prices, I think, being lower,
while electricity prices go up a little bit, lagging on inflation. But I think that's kind
of the high order bit for growth investors to look at is 10 years in the future, I think we're
going to see a lot more driverless cars than we do now. You see the note at the top that William Blair just put out.
They went and tried the Waymo, the Robotaxi, and they reported that the Robotaxi feels very human,
very much like how they would expect a chauffeur to drive, while the Waymo feels a little more robotic.
That matches my experience and the experience of others.
And I think Tesla has something very special here. They've trained an AI model. And by the way,
the Tesla AI team was founded by two co-founders of OpenAI, Elon Musk and Andre Karpathy.
And they've got a really incredible team. You can really see it in
the product and the way it drives. It's not really like any other self-driving car in terms of how
human-like it is, the way they've trained it using millions of Tesla cars as a training source.
It's very unique and it's very differentiated compared to other autonomous providers who are,
you know, mapping a city, using a lot of sensing, using LIDAR, using radar.
This is a piece of software that essentially can look around with just cameras and can drive a car
safely, which sounds so crazy. You would think it would never work, but then you can just go take a Tesla test drive and see for yourself.
It actually works quite a bit better than you would expect.
So that's really kind of the key technology piece, I think,
that's underlying Tesla and its trillion-dollar valuation right now.
I don't think, obviously, that they have a trillion dollar valuation
just because people expect them to sell a lot of Model 3s and Model Ys and whatever they have in
the future. It's really this core technology piece where you process camera images and you
can figure out how to make the computer or the car move safely through the world.
And going back to your original question about optimists, I think it kind of extends towards
optimists too.
If you have a humanoid robot that can just process the world with cameras and microphones
and traditional sensing, then yeah, I mean, what can you not automate in the economy?
You could really have a fully automated economy. You know, if you imagine that these robots
actually have an intelligence that gives them a competence in tasks that's comparable to humans
in some domain, you know, plumbing, fast food, whatever. I think obviously in the next few decades, we're going to see a huge rise in automation
driven by really these changes we've seen in generative AI.
So that's kind of the thing I'm looking at as an investor.
It's this ability to train a model and actually train a relatively small model that can run
in the car, as opposed to these big
models that are running on the server side for open ai and google and others but train a model
that can run on the car that can actually you know control it allow it to move through the world on
its own that's really what we're starting to you know move into here is a world where computers are able to move around the world on
their own and go do things for us. And that's ultimately, I think, much bigger than the ride
hail market or even the labor market, right? If you think about what the TAM for humanoid robots
are at scale, this will probably take a decade or two to play out, but it's probably bigger than
the global labor market if you really think about it.
So these are the really interesting long-term trends.
There's short-term difficulties in the business, politics, competition, all those things.
But yeah, I think that we're moving into a fully autonomous world.
I think that we're moving into a world where, I mean, everyone and their mom seems to be working on a humanoid robot.
So you can really debate how much of that market Tesla is going to take.
You may believe that Tesla is actually going to take the majority of the market.
You may believe that Tesla is actually going to be sort of a minority player in the market. But you look at,
you know, sort of the United States, I think the U.S. does about three trillion miles of
vehicles, vehicle travel a year. And you just kind of put any number on that, any per mile cost,
you can see that this is probably going to be really a multi-trillion dollar market that's emerging here, where people are going from buying a car and paying for financing and paying for registration and parking and all that stuff to sort of consuming transportation in a more service-oriented way.
So, you know, whether you think Tesla's going to take a big part of that market
or even a small chunk of that market,
I think it's a huge market that's emerging.
And that's really the key here.
I think it's a lot more of a reality today than most people realize.
It is about to boom.
I love the vision that you're painting there.
Omar, really, really good stuff.
John, I want to make sure we get to you before we get to the top of the hour.
I saw you joined up.
Did you have any thoughts here?
No, I mean, obviously, I know we're wrapping up, and I know probably a lot was covered
in the first couple.
But no, I think just just really really exciting times here specifically with the model YL launched
the other day and then also to you know just it's only been a couple I think
about three weeks now that the robo taxi has been launched in the Bay Area and
the geofence is like literally 400 square miles. And so you can go from the bottom to the top.
I think it's about 65 miles from the bottom to the top.
I took it the other day.
And so it's really just exciting to, you know, exciting times for Tesla.
And really, this is, you know, what I think a lot of us have been waiting for, especially
since 2018, 2019, is jumping into your Tesla and
realizing that this car can drive you anywhere you want to go.
And so, you know, the drivers are in the driver's seat at the moment, but it's really exciting
to see how this expansion will happen, not only in the Bay Area, really within all of
the geographies that Waymo's in.
I think those are going to be the first targeted areas that Tesla will go into.
But yeah, I think, you know, again, you know, I think there's a lot happening this quarter.
Obviously, with the tax credit ending.
So just, you know, going to be some pretty big numbers that they're going to put up.
up. But it'll be interesting to see how they respond after the quarter ends.
But it'll be interesting to see how they respond after the quarter ends.
So true. So true. Yeah, this is a big quarter. Absolutely. It feels like we see that for all of
them. But this one, there were a lot of accomplishments that are going to happen
and a lot of changes as well with incentives and other pieces. So I do agree. I'm excited to see
what comes next. Will, I'm going to double back to you excited to see what comes next uh will i'm gonna double back to
you here um just see if you had any other thoughts in general for this space and i wanted to just
voice appreciation for you joining us you know we have like our traditional tesla crew up here but
cool to have uh somebody who's really dealing the back end and building these different etfs that
allow people to you know trade around tesla maybe they have their core Tesla position. And so I wanted to
thank you for coming on and see if you had any other thoughts or any other piece of information
about VTS for those that are looking at them. Yeah, no, just again, thank you for everybody.
There was a great discussion, some great content. I love that comment about computers starting to
move themselves around the world. I mean, I think that's exactly what we're talking about.
And the opportunity for that is just monumental,
especially when you go beyond the automobile,
which in and of itself is a massive opportunity
to other forms of transportation
and the way that autonomous will impact
almost every aspect of our lives.
So great discussion.
I think I just need to go and buy a Tesla now.
No, I'm joking.
Yeah, time to get it.
Or maybe wait for that Model YL to come out, get that family-friendly Tesla.
I know people are going to be super excited about that and just continue to have more
space on these items.
So huge thank you to Will for coming on.
Thank you to Penny and Omar, as always for coasting appreciate josh landon captain ellie kim evan john everyone else that
was on land did you did you have another comment there so you're muted for a second
i did let me give you just uh in 14 seconds you know there is a people like it on wall street
when tesla raises prices and tesla did a little price move up on some very popular models around the world.
Model S and X are loved by just tons of people.
We know friends in Germany that have driven them for years.
And so the price increase there, I think a good sign includes the Luxe package, L-U-X-E.
I think a good sign includes the Luxe package, L-U-X-E.
So basically including that full self-driving supervised that's usually a standalone option.
And some other premium connectivity, free supercharging for the life of the car.
You know, some other things there that make it kind of an interesting look.
So check that out.
Ask yourself if you like that Luxe packaging model,
if you'd like to see that on other vehicles. They've done that like with launch additions,
etc. But I think it's worth mentioning that Tesla's got a product that a lot of people love,
made some great changes to it this year, and a really exciting way to bundle all of those really
cool safety features and such.
Yeah, I like that 100%. Can't go wrong with more safety features.
Absolutely cannot go wrong with that.
So great points across the board.
Big thank you to our whole Tesla crew.
I got another conversation, just a little bit more general market, some specific names
within the market that we're going to dive into here for the next 30 minutes.
We got a new panel of speakers that's coming up so i'm going to bring a couple of those up here now but a big thank you again to everybody that joined us as always tuesdays tesla tuesdays 12
pm eastern tune in every week we do these shows uh consistently discussing the stock and everything
happening around it and we're going to roll into
our next chat now, broaden out a little bit more. I know that there's a couple of the guys that are
coming up that have some exciting names that they want to dig into here in the market. I know I was
looking at the chat and a few other items. So we'll get right into it. Ben, welcome to the panel,
as well as Money Mark, the godfather. I think we might have one or two others that are going to
join us as well on stage. How's it going today, Ben? How are you feeling? You had some
surgery yesterday, right? Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for changing this around. Usually we do this
Monday's 1 p.m. with M. Is he on paternity leave at this point, I guess? I believe he's in the
hospital right now. Wow, that's exciting. All right, so change the schedule a little bit here.
Wow, that's exciting. All right, so change of schedule a little bit here. Usually what we do, we talk small caps and risk assets. We'll start the show going around the panel. Just somebody, Mark, but I might have to bring him up again. We'll go around the panel talking just sentiments and macro overview very congested. I just had sinus surgery is what I had yesterday. So we'll just accept that co-host.
Then we'll go around and talk about some specific stocks.
And we're going to roll right into it.
At 1.30 p.m., we're going to talk to the CEO of Fuse AI.
That's going to be a very interesting opportunity.
I talked to him a bit last week, and I'm really excited to learn more about that company.
So first, I'm just going to start with some of my macro thoughts, Wolf, and then we'll pass around to the panel.
Money, Mark, let me keep coming up and dropping off if we could make sure he's a speaker.
Yeah, he's up here now.
Okay, great.
So, yeah, look, it's been challenging today.
It's been probably the worst day in a week or so at least on risk assets, small caps.
And I'll just kind of summarize everything that's happened in the last two weeks because it's been a ride.
You know, IWM broke out a couple weeks ago.
I initially thought it would break out on the weak jobs number and the revisions that came in really, really bad.
But it didn't.
It kind of bounced there off support on that bad Friday.
But then it really took off when we got the light CPI, rallied for a few days,
and then we got the hot PPI, which seems to have turned around that momentum.
It's actually, you can see it in QQQ too, looking at risk assets.
I think the tech sector has a little bit of that character in terms of risk assets.
And this is really hard to move right to the 20 DMA today.
Kind of out of nowhere.
I think maybe it's just some risk off ahead of the FOMC minutes tomorrow.
And Kyle speaking at Jackson Hall on Friday.
And also, earnings season is pretty
much over. We just have Nvidia next week and then that's it. So what are going to be the
catalysts that take us to the next level? So who knows? We could be getting into that
seasonal correction that I thought maybe could come in August. It came for two days and then
right back up. So we'll see if we get a seasonal correction here in September. But
there's a lot going on, a lot of risks, a lot of catalysts that can take us both directions.
Ukraine, Russia, if there's peace there, I think it would cause a bit of the market,
except for a defense and drone stocks, which probably take a hit. But that's the big picture.
That's how we got here. This is where we are today.
Today's been particularly difficult. We've had a good time in the story trading community
throughout the year and throughout the months and last months and months to date.
Coming into today, I was up over 400% for the year. But today, a little bit of a nasty jaw down
in the stocks that I'm in right now. So that's my macro view. So let's
turn it over to Buddy Mark next for his view. Yeah, I'm with you, brother. Look, we continue
to see what is going to happen. We're at that critical stage and have been for quite some time where the Qs and the S&P 500 are at my long-term risk-reward
highs, which means I'm at yellow alert from a fundamental valuation perspective. But we've
talked about this being a rare case, only happens every few decades, where you have the potential
for a bubble to form. Last time was because of the internet, this time because of AI.
That battle continues to rage, right? And I can't call if that's going to happen. I don't think anybody can, right? Because it takes a tremendous amount of additional liquidity and buying to push
the market beyond these kinds of levels where you're going to have big market participants like
the Warren Buffetts of the world taking
money off the table.
So that's what we got to watch out for.
And so it really just comes back to week after week after week.
Be picky and focus on individual stocks, not the stock market in general.
And from that perspective, I mean, so many of our picks, I mean, Ben, how many of our
names are multi-baggers over the last few months, right?
And they get to certain levels. And you know me, I focus on fundamental risk reward, not
technical charting. And we're hitting fundamental risk reward highs on stock after stock after stock,
whether it's Kraken, TSSI, Drone Shield, one after the other after the other. And the rules tell me to sell these names
when they get to these levels. And as a result, I'm at my lowest net long positioning of the year
going into what might be a big correction or potentially a bubble. But if we hit the bubble,
I've got the names that will go along with it. So that's all it comes down to. It's the same story as last week, really.
But just kind of keep focused on individual names
and not the market as a whole
because we're at a critical stage.
And I really don't think that any human being
can call which way this is going to go.
But you are right.
We are going into the seasonally weak time of the year.
August to November is brutal.
So just be extra careful
and we'll be back with individual stocks in a bit. Yeah August to October is what I remember. I think November is
usually pretty good. Yeah, yeah November is good. What I meant was you know once
November comes that period is over. Right. Yeah, yeah and you know it's just
things that you're at your highest cash levels. I'm not in my long-term account.
My long-term accounts you know for my levels. I'm not in my long-term account. My long-term accounts,
you know, for my retirement, I'm pretty much almost always fully invested in my retirement
account. But my short-term account, I've shifted. It's been about a month or so that I have
much higher cash levels at the end of the day, like 60 to 80% at the end of each day.
And we're just focusing on like the stocks of the day that we think can do great with Catalyst.
That's been working out pretty well for us.
So maybe that's just good timing.
Maybe I got lucky switching to that.
You know, the real reason it probably is because I saw swings are harder.
I saw it was getting harder at swing stocks.
I'm like, screw the swings.
I'm just going to be cash and play the stock of the day, which worked really well the last several days with UNH and the Buffett news
and Wolf, the WLF, and that news.
Day after day, there's a lot of strong catalysts.
Today, though, today is the first challenging day, I've got to say,
in a few weeks where, well, Intel is working for us, but that's about it.
So, all right, in any case, oh, you know, Gav, take back to you if you wanted to say response to anything money worker I said.
Yeah, not necessarily response, but I think I lean with you that it does feel like we're at a bit of an inflection point for the stock market right now.
And, you know, you can go off of the indices. I know for here, maybe we're looking more at a little bit, you know, some of the small caps.
We're still nicely above that 200 ASMA on IWM, which is great,
right? That's all the way down at 216, we're at 225. So that's a solid sign right there. And then
of course, SPY and QQQ have, you know, run way above theirs. I think that, you know, typically
when I look for pullbacks, I look for pullbacks of the 21 SMA kind of across the board. And IWM
really, after that pop on August 12th, August 13th, it really ran above its 21 SMA.
That's, you know, a couple dollars, like $3 almost below where it is now.
SP500, you can see it consistently pulls back to that area.
And it's looking into it right now.
That'd be another $4 down.
So I wouldn't be surprised if we come down to 21 SMA and just retest that again.
That seems like a natural point to happen right now.
In fact, Q's just did it.
Q's pulled right back to it today.
So that's, for me, a big area that I look for.
So potentially looking for a bounce right here on the Q's,
some more room down on SPY and IWM,
just from what I'm seeing at the moment.
But yeah, excited to dive into more of these individual names.
Yeah, and keep in mind, the IWM has been kind of the safest
indice in the room because the Qs and the SPY
hit those risk-reward long-term highs a few weeks ago.
And since then, the IWM, which hasn't,
still plenty of room on the long-term charts,
has been outperforming.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. All right.
Yeah, I was just going to go through and talk about those exact levels that
Wolf just went through. So I'll dispense with that. But, you know, look,
clearly the tenor of the price action has changed in here.
You know, last week was the first down week for NVIDIA.
In three weeks, the leadership group in the market is intact
in terms of the AI spending theme.
It's intact in terms of earnings growth,
but clearly there's some mega cap fatigue.
And with that in the market, combined with the other things
that we're seeing in terms of seasonality,
I would not be surprised to see actually a concerted break of those 20 or 21-day
moving averages that were just mentioned. For me, yeah, I'm actually thinking 50 could come into
play. It's possible. I'm not sure exactly all the catalysts that would take it there, but
September is typically a red month.
We start to see a little bit of a pickup in some of the smaller cap interests in the latter part and then in earnest in November and in December. So I really want to keep powder dry for that
timeframe. I sent a note to our Discord community a week ago saying I was not taking on any new names.
discord community a week ago saying i was not taking on any new names um in the background
i've gone through like 500 different uh names that i've touched on over the years and and
whittled it down to a group of about 25 which i'm going to do deep dives on in preparation for
putting some of that powder to work in the latter part of the year but um yeah look there's there's
times when the price action tells you to do less. And
clearly this is one of those times. You have to make a distinction between understanding
fundamentals and then listening to the price action in terms of guiding your decision making.
And I think it's a good time to focus on fundamentals, make sure you're up to speed on the key market themes, the key players in those themes.
And then just let the market be your guide in terms of when you put that money to work.
And that's certainly the way I'm approaching it.
You know, if you recap the earnings season, it was fine, if not strong.
You know, frankly, we came in at 11% growth in earnings with it pretty much done versus expectations of
four. The MAG7 came in with 26% earnings growth versus expectations of 12. So a big beat there.
But look, there's some angst in this market in terms of pull through and other things. And
that's evidenced by the views on earnings growth in the second half of the year.
We saw this 11% growth in Q2.
The estimate for the second half of the year is 7%.
I expect that will be beat again.
But nonetheless, that's where we're at.
And there's some particular sectors that there's notable weakness.
Software is one.
I know there's this theme about AI sort of eating away.
I think it's going to become an opportunity, software.
I'm still wrestling with it.
But again, it goes back to the price action.
And the price action is telling us it's still a bit early.
Notable weakness in consumer.
I don't think anyone wants to do anything ahead of Jackson Hole.
Look, there's no Q&A in this speech, but just like an earnings report, you've got to look at the price action. What's the setup going in for Powell to give anything away in terms of a rate cut in September.
And I think, you know, just not doing that alone will probably add to weakness in those names that are sensitive to rates, i.e. housing, small caps, financials, and so on. So again, it kind of bodes in terms of timing well to keep
your powder dry. Don't force trades. If anything, at least for the next week or so, shorting pops
is probably, if you have to do something, you're staring at a monitor all day, you know, that seems to be the path of least resistance.
You know, that said, you know, in conversation with Ben and our community this morning, he's right.
You know, individual catalysts that are warranted do see price action.
There's clearly still a modicum of or more of retail interest in this market.
But look, it's the last week of summer.
I think just not having bids in the market
is enough to cause the type of weakness
that we're seeing today.
And I think it's really nothing more than that.
And keep in mind that unless you are 100% invested,
these are good days. These are healthy things for the market. It's not always advisable to be fully invested.
Maybe in a long-term account where you're not trying to time the market and in days like this
can be good for adding to those positions. But as a trader, these are days to keep your powder dry.
I'll leave it there in terms of macro comments.
Yeah, I agree with Jackson Hall, with Powell,
he's not going to front run his own if he does do a cut in September.
But we do have the minutes coming out tomorrow, FOMC minutes.
And I don't know if folks remember.
The last FOMC meeting was the first time in over 30 years that there were two dissensions, or maybe even that there was at least one.
There were dissensions in the vote about having a rate cut.
So that's going to come out tomorrow afternoon again at the forefront.
tomorrow afternoon again at the forefront.
So maybe with a QQQ here at the 20DMA,
it could be an excuse for at least a one-day
or half-day rally tomorrow afternoon.
Wolf, Dov, you have any comments on that
before we go to individual stocks?
No, no additional ones on that.
I am, you know, just continuing to observe
the data coming out.
One thing which might be interesting just to hear your guys' thoughts on, you know, as we to observe the data coming out. One thing which might be interesting
just to hear your guys' thoughts on, you know, as we come closer to FMC meetings right now,
right, you've got the Fed watch. This is something that I've just been looking a little bit deeper
into, predicting now an 85% or 84.9% chance of a 25 basis point ease. And I was looking at the prediction markets for this
as well, and they seem to be pretty in line with that too. And I do think that that's going to be,
you know, specifically for small caps, those always seem to make more of an appearance in
the stock movement. Yeah, 71% chance.
So by the way, that is something I thought was interesting, that the betting markets
have a 71% chance versus FedWatch at 85.
So those are just things that I'm watching as we continue to see data and other pieces
come in the market.
But yeah, excited to get into these individual names.
All right, let's get into it.
We got 12 minutes before we have the chat on Fuse AI.
So why don't we start with you, Moneyware, because I know you can go on and on.
So I'm going to give you the floor first and cut you off in time to get to the other picks.
Yeah, I'll keep it quick. I'll give you three names.
One, just kind of along that lines of being very picky, TSSI has been kind of a controversial name for me of late.
You know, I was the person who originally proved that XAI was doing business with TSSI.
That sparked the stocks movement from two to 20.
And people were happy.
They're happy when I report, you know, research and that kind of goes their way.
But when I support research that doesn't go their way,
they get upset. That's kind of silly. Research is research and it is what it is. And I just tell it
like it is. And what we see out there is Dell has expanded its capabilities to service and integrate
Blackwell racks. And that has caused some concern in the marketplace.
Their earnings call did not go well. And that has caused concern in the marketplace. Their
guidance doesn't give us any visibility into some strong numbers. That's caused concern in
the marketplace. And then just to cap it all off, they come out and they do a 58.5 million dollar raise with an investment bank that
is relatively new and has a rel not a great reputation in terms of the personnel that are
involved there um so that is all kind of fed into a downtrend in the stock coming off of my risk
reward high so the people that got out of the stock at 20, they're happy they're not involved right now. The people that stayed in, they went
for a roller coaster ride much higher, went from 20 to 30, never really belong there if you ask me
from a fundamental perspective. And now we're dealing with kind of the controversy of why did
they raise all that money? I'm working on that. Okay, so let's stay tuned.
I'll provide an update.
But it does feel a little oversold.
Would love to hear from Doug E. Fresh if he's with us today.
I see that he's not, unfortunately.
But we're coming up on the 200-day moving average.
And I would say that the smoke has to settle pretty soon.
That $58 million secondary, by the way, I think that's a big culprit out there.
That's negative liquidity. People are thinking, oh, long-term investors. No, long-term investors
do not do a lot of business with the investment banker that was involved in this TSSI raise.
It's more flippers. And so you just had a massive amount of stock at a discount given to these guys
who then floated into the stock market and you see
the stock moving down on these concerns so stay tuned uh i'm not saying that i'm embarrassed
especially at these levels i'm just kind of keeping it a buck from a research perspective
so just cautionary tale there now on the flip side i'll jump into the technicals real quick since our friend, what's the name of my god, Brain Freeze.
Dougie Fresh is not here.
All right, so $17 was where the offering price was at, but I didn't really step in or was very hesitant to.
I played it a little bit before your show in case you said something good.
But in any case, but the technicals are terrible, and I know this,
and that's why I didn't step in previously. It was like in this no-man's land to the 200
DMA, and I didn't see any real candle support until that 200 DMA, 1381, so almost like 1427.
But yeah, that was a nasty chart. Usually in a bull market, you're not going to see, you're going to see that offering price be supported, especially if there's no warrants.
But this time it didn't.
And that chart just looked really, really like it wanted to get to that 200 DMA.
And that's what happened.
Well, yeah.
And I mean, the stock was down already like 30 or 40 percent before they even did the offering.
Right.
So it's not, you know, it's not like the information I'm putting out there
or the raise itself did most of the damage.
Most of the damage was done by the earnings call
that knocked the stock down from 30 to 18.
Then they do the 17 raise
and it's just a massive raise for a company this size.
And as those shares kind of hit the market
and then some negative concerns about what this might mean, like they just built a whole new facility that's twice as big as their old facility.
So what do they need with $58 million when they used half that amount to build their new facility?
It raises questions.
They haven't given us answers.
And in the face of that, investors are going to be concerned.
Simple as that um anything
else on that all right got two quick ones to to share yeah let's go let's go quick i want to get
time with godfather too yep these are these are relatively new names so real quick opera o-p-r-a
um look perplexity offered 34 billion dollars for chrome people laughed. I said, don't laugh because the browser is the
entry point for AI. Okay. There's also word out there that they offered a billion dollars for
Brave, which is a much smaller player than OPRA, the Opera browser. Okay. OPRA has an EV of about
about 1.3 billion. So that's not too far over the billion that was offered for Brave. Profitable,
1.3 billion. So that's not too far over the billion that was offered for Brave.
trading at a 15 PE and growing, right? So what you get with this company is a reasonable valuation,
but with a free call option that they could get acquired by a company like Anthropic, OpenAI,
or Perplexity looking to get that browser that they need to really make that AI, you know,
strategically strong in the marketplace. Like if you get like a Google or Microsoft, their AI
is instant, right? When you go to Google, if you do a Google search, you could get a Google AI
answer. You use the Microsoft browser, you get a Microsoft AI answer. This is an advantage that the other guys need to gain. So OPRA is one to keep an eye out on. One thing to caution,
obviously in the AI era, there can be pressure on advertising revenue. So there's kind of the
knife cut both ways here. They could either be acquired or maybe you could see earnings get
pressured. So just be a little careful there. Right now, the environment's good,
and I don't think AI is destroying ad revenue, though. So I have a small position there. And
then finally, TGEN, people have been asking me about this for a long time, another AI name,
partnership with Vertiv VRT. But when researching a name, I need a research edge over the rest of
the market or validation from independent third-party industry experts. We finally got that on TGEN a couple of weeks ago from a guy who revealed an expert,
multi-decade expert in the industry, revealed that they had won their first deal and had many more to come.
Just a matter of how many deals they get pulled in with Vertiv, who has 25% market share in the AI market.
So net-net, though, it gave me the impetus to start building a model using VRT's numbers
and the pull through that they might come to TGEN. And what I found was it's a reasonable
valuation right now. I can see them doing 42 cents next year. The stock's at about eight bucks. I
could see them doing a buck a couple of years from now, reasonably speaking. And here's the thing that's really interesting, the operating leverage that they have there.
If they do 100 million in product in fiscal 28,
that's a bucket EPS.
But if you just double that number to 200,
the EPS number doesn't double from one to two.
It goes up nearly 4X to $3.50.
So it makes it a very interesting
spec at this point with validation from third-party experts. That's it for now.
Love it. I saw the Opera earnings this morning. They beat and raised, so definitely some of
we'll look at. All right. Godfather of News, let's go. We got about three minutes. We'll
skip my picks for the week. It'll just be you and then we'll head over and talk about Fuse AI right after that.
Okay, look, I'll make it brief as well.
When it comes to these small caps, you can very quickly become orphaned by the market as retail money moves around and chases shiny bubbles, if you will.
So I think it's important that these names have some sponsorship in the market in terms of being part of key themes.
And that's sort of more relevant than ever in a market that's increasingly fickle in so much as that it's trading close to all-time highs.
So in that note, clearly one of the key themes is data center. And that really boils down
to power and this whole conversion of Bitcoin mining towards HPC capacity. We saw it with the
CoreWeave takeover of cores. We saw it with the Wolf deal with Google or player that's associated
with Google this week and the value value creation there, you know,
we'll point from 550 to 1050.
It's come off a little bit,
but there's only a handful of names in that sector that have the strategic
assets, both in terms of geographical placement, you know,
be they on key fiber optic links close to urban centers.
You need low latency as that's provided by
geographic location. And then the core key thing is the power contracts. And then the third piece
of the puzzle is actually having the expertise to, you know, to stand up these data centers.
And then the fourth part of it is, you know, having access to financing that, you know,
gives you reputational clout when you're negotiating with multi-trillion dollar
make-a-cap companies, which are the people that are putting this money to work. So that list is
short. Aside from the names that I just mentioned, the two others that make that list for me are
Cypher and Iron. If you look at the relative price action in those two, going back to my comments about let price action be your primary determinant of decision making, Cypher rises to the top.
You can just see it in the charts. It's lagged the most.
I know the stock went over $7 on rumors that they're close to a deal with Meta.
That makes a lot of sense to me.
The other core key thing is that they tick those boxes that I just mentioned.
Barber Lake, for example, sits right on the fiber optic line.
They've proven their ability to stand up these data centers.
They have Fortress in their back pocket that's already a term sheet in place to backstop all of the construction for Barber Lake, which is 300 megawatts. So that's the size that's necessary to move the needle for these players.
So, you know, that name, I think, is where even the hot money that's made a lot doubled
on Wolf will get parked. And, you know, right down here at 550, where we dipped to today,
I think it's a tremendous opportunity. Iron, I think they have a nice suite
of assets as well. But for the reason I just mentioned, I would prioritize them one, two like
that. The list thins out really quickly beyond that. Another name, another two names that you've
heard me mentioned here multiple times, so I won't go into great detail, but they are, you know,
second derivative plays, if you will,
to AI. It's enabling AI in the physical world, which is a great deal of the application. We're
talking about smart security cameras, things that manage intersections. We're talking about
the inference that happens and takes place in a motor vehicle in real time. These are the sorts of things that happen at the edge, if you will.
You don't have time to send signals to data centers and come back and so on.
So two names that play in that group.
One has been more successful than the other in terms of having a integrated hardware software suite in the market.
And that's OUST.
They're often lumped into the LiDAR camp, but it's
essentially sensors. And then, you know, processors that go along with that and software stack
to be able to integrate these things, whether it's automating machinery or the other applications
I just mentioned. That stock's gone from 16 to, you know, I think it hit 38 or something,
it's come back a little bit. The
other name that I highlighted last week in this group is BZAI. These guys actually make the
silicon at the edge that's super efficient in terms of both processing inference, power usage,
low latency, you know, all these things that are necessary for applications that are, you know, sit on things like drones, that sit on things like smart security cameras, sit on, you know, in motor vehicles, etc.
There's some skepticism because they're just making the transition or the inflection, if you will, from pilot projects to actual purchase orders. And some of those initial purchase orders are coming out of leading areas, smart cities,
et cetera, that are based in China and or Korea, things that aren't household names
in North America.
But again, there's a company that's going from $35 million this year to a minimum of
$140 million in revenue next year, trading under three times earnings or three times sales on an
EV sales basis. OUST, which is a little more established, got to a multiple of almost 10
times EV to sales. So you can see the sort of expansion that happens when confidence gets built.
Two other names, again, associated to AI.
Real quick, I just want to make sure, Ben, I know that we, did we have something here
at the 30-minute mark that you wanted to roll into?
Yeah, yeah, we're running late.
30 seconds, Godfather?
Yeah, look, you have to have some chips
on the table in nuclear
because obviously the administration's
turned their guns towards that.
LEU is a name that's talked about a lot on spaces.
The other name that's in that group in terms of enrichment is ASPI.
It's lagged.
There's tremendous value creation going on in that company,
both in terms of utilization of their laser enrichment technology
for radioactive elements for medical isotopes,
which just like enrichment for nuclear is 85% dominated by the Russians.
So these are all areas that are key and strategic. And, you know, this is,
they present some great short-term opportunities. I think this LEU is massively oversold as a result
of the convert that they just did. ASPI, I think you're going to see value creation in the second half of this year,
spin out of several standalone divisions. And this is something that deserves to be in a long-term
portfolio. It's got tailwinds to it. So I'll keep it there. I have a few others, but not for today.
Okay, great. Thank you so much, MoneyMark, Godfather. I appreciate all those insights
and those trading ideas. If you can stick around for a few minutes,
would love for you to hear about this opportunity.
Wolf, was there anything you wanted to say ahead of this or you want me to take it from here?
No, we're good to roll in.
Excited, you know, we get to have leadership
from publicly traded companies come on the shows
and directly have conversations with them.
Can't think of a better way to conduct your due diligence.
You know, encourage everybody in the audience
to take some notes.
Okay, great. So disclaimer first, Fuse AI, who we're going to be speaking to here. Samir, you see him up on there. Samir Maskey is the CEO and founder of Fuse AI,
or Fuse Machines. I think it's going to be called Fuse AI. Disclaimer, they are a sponsor of this
program, and I also did decide to buy some of the rights
in this, we'll talk about that, in fact I'm going to tell you about that up front
before we go into the discussion, so I spoke to
Samir and to the SPAC sponsor last
week and I really dug into the structure of what's going on
here and today I want to dig into more of the technology.
So on the panel we also have Mo from Gatewatch here who can answer any questions about the structure of this transaction if needed.
There's also a couple AI engineers it looks like.
Anish, Joshy, Mo, is Prangel supposed to be up here too?
I'm not sure he's requesting um
or let me know about that but first let me just give a quick overview charlie is requesting i
think charlie charlie should be on it as well try i don't see the request yet from charlie
don't see that uh wolf if you see yeah i'm looking I don't see the request yet. So let me just start with a little information here.
So this is actually a SPAC that the deal's already been passed.
The SPAC ticker is CSLMF.
So you see it there, CSLMF.
It shows as up 67% today, but it's a big spread, 750 by 13 last rate, 10.
This deal's already a done deal, and it's going to be changing to FUSD as soon as the NASDAQ approves the uplisting,
which should be in about two weeks or less.
Mo, feel free to jump in and correct me on anything.
That's correct.
And I think Charlie requested again, but I think he's back.
Yeah, I got Charlie.
Is there anyone else you're looking for?
That's pretty much it, eh, for now.
Okay.
Okay.
So, real interesting thing here,
and this is the disclaimer I have to make,
and I did decide to buy some of the rights.
It's a liquidity in CSLMF is not very good.
It's 750 by 13,
but there's something trading here called CSLRF, which
does have liquidity. And each 10 of these rights that you buy give you the ability to
change it into one of the underlying shares. So this CSLMF, it's over the counter. When
it switches to Fuse on NASDAQ, you're going to get liquidity. And this $0.25 thing of
the rights, $0.24 by $ by 26 cents right now, that implies the underlying
price of $2.50, but it's actually $10 that's trading at.
So if TSLMF can maintain this $10 price when it becomes fused, F-U-S-E, in a couple of
weeks, then you can see this 25 cents go to $1.
So there's an ARP play here.
That's the limit of my participation right now, interested in this R plane. And we'll see, does this stock, is it going to deserve
$10 or not? Maybe it deserves less, maybe it deserves more. And that's what we're going
to dig into now. So Samir, you're the CEO and family refuse machines. Something that
there were two main takeaways I really liked about our discussion last week
one is you're already generating meaningful revenue that's growing and the other is your
containment on cost and you actually have a pretty year term foreseeable path to profitability which
is pretty unusual first fact so i'll let you take it away from there. Sure. Thanks, Ben. Yes.
We already, as filing the disclosures and the ACC filings,
we already have a decent-sized revenue.
And as I've said last time as well,
and you can see from the filings as well,
we're not burning a lot. And with the capital coming in at closing,
when the listing happens, it significant capital for our future growth. Okay absolutely and the
the money I guess like the deals already closed right you've already gotten some
of that money and I guess maybe there's a portion you get once the Nasdaq
approves the change to fuse.
Is that how it works?
So part of the money has been given before
as part of the convertible nodes.
And so the CSLM has shareholders
have approved the deal already,
but foreclosing will happen concurrently with NASDAQ listing.
So after the NASDAQ clearance, we'll close and also receive the money.
Okay, great. And I just told Charlie, Charlie, you're the CEO of CSLM, Charlie Castle over here.
Was there anything you wanted to add regarding the transaction?
Yeah, just for clarity,
what ends up happening on these deals is they don't technically close
until the NASDAQ listing is completed.
So we put in through CSLM and its affiliates
like $6.5 million in total,
put up another $2.16 million in escrow
that's already done and in the company.
And then there'll be another $14 million that'll go in
as soon as the uplift to NASDAQ is completed.
Okay, got it.
And then this is going to be after the deal's closed.
I think we're talking about, I wrote this think we're talking about 26 million outstanding shares. So if it maintains it's $10, that'll be about $260 million valuation.
Tell me a little bit about, we covered this last week, I don't want to spend too much
time on it.
The revenue, you know, to date how that's growing.
But then after that, I really want to spend a lot of this show digging into your technology
in the future and who your clients are and the end case and your product market fit.
But just give us a little update on the revenue situation and your break even situation because
you have a pretty good setup with where your staff is located out there in Nepal.
Yeah.
So 23 to 24, so we are about 8.8 million in revenue in 2024 filings,
which was about 89.5% growth from 2023.
A slight growth, if you could do Q1 to Q1,
slight growth there as well from Q1 24 to Q1 25
with a small growth but reduced sales and marketing costs
as we've spent and resources on product development over the years.
As I mentioned last time as well,
we've been very capital efficient
starting from day one
when I started the company about 12 years ago.
And we continue to be capital efficient.
And so with the money coming in,
we'll be able to support a lot of resources
on sales and marketing costs.
We should improve the growth percentage points
even more, which should lead to a place in the future where we are breaking even.
Okay, great.
Can you just talk a little bit about, like, you're so close to breaking even, honestly.
Like, when I'm looking at it, you don't need that much more growth to get there.
For an AI company, that's pretty rare at your market cap size.
And I think that has a lot to do with just yourself and how you've managed that,
but also your, I guess, background from Nepal and most of your tech staff is there.
Can you talk about that a little bit?
Sure.
So as a background, I grew up in Nepal, came here in scholarship in the U.S.,
did my undergrad in math and physics as a double major,
went on to get a PhD in computer science
from Columbia University,
worked at IBM Watson for a while
and left all that to start the company and to teach.
So over the years,
having taught AI for many years at Columbia University, I've also taken some of the courses
and taught a lot of really, really good engineers in Nepal with a program called what we call
Fused Machines AI Fellowship, which are top 10%, top 1% of the students graduating from
the top programs there that has allowed us to cultivate this really good set of engineers
that we've been able to train over the years in Nepal and now we do it over other places
and hundreds of communities as well that has allowed us to build this really good pool
of AI engineers highly skilled in a lot of the latest AI technologies who can build really
new cool new features for the product that we are building here.
And that has allowed us to keep our costs low while building Karinez product and doing
Karinez research.
Okay, great.
I also see actually right now we just have Christine Chambers joining us as well on the panel here. Tell us, what's your role going to be, Christine, with the company going forward?
The public company CFO is really sort of two decades of support for growing software companies.
I really, you know, joined the company to think about and drive sort of data-driven capital allocation decisions to support growth.
And really driving kind of and bringing along the mission of the organization and create, you know, supporting the organization with that growth strategy and
supporting metrics. And like I said, really bringing that sort of data-driven decision-making
to the team as well. So delighted to be here. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks. All right, Samir.
So we got a good background on everything. And now what I want to get to, I always say this when we
interview microcap companies, the whole key is, can you get to profitability or at least break even before you have to do some kind of toxic offering on the market?
That's the thing.
And if you can, then that's going to bring in all the investors in spades.
And we like to work with companies that only have that path to get there.
So we already talked about, you know, you have some revenue already. It's
grown nicely. You're not too far from profitability. I don't know if you talked about the break-even
number. What was it? 8.8 million? No, no. I think it was 12 million a quarter, something like that.
If you get to 12 million a quarter, you'd be a break-even. Is that right?
We haven't disclosed the exact break-even number in public disclosures, so we'll be able to talk about that.
But it's not far from our discussion we had.
But my question is, I want to really get an understanding of your product market fit and what kind of opportunities there are in the next two years to see hockey stick growth.
What as investors do we need to look out for?
Again, what's the end use case of your product?
What are the opportunities there?
What might you be working on now that might translate into hockey stick growth
in the next one or two years so that you don't only just get to break even
but you explode into profitability?
That's what I'm looking for.
Is that opportunity there?
Is it there?
If it is, tell us all about it.
Sure.
So to explain the opportunity, I'll start off with the current, some of the pain points
that the enterprises have in implementing AI and how we take some of those challenges
and address them, which gives us a
good product market fit and how current some of the customers are deploying it and how we have
a dollar expansion. So let me touch on all of those points, but I'll start with the AI as a whole.
I mean, today you've probably see AI everywhere, and
all the enterprises are also trying to implement
AI, but you've probably also seen
in all kinds of reports, a lot of POCs
don't convert into full deployments
and so forth, right? So why is that?
Especially in enterprises,
I'm not talking about our uses
of ChatGPT, but particularly in
B2B world, when
the companies are trying to deploy an AI system,
why are they having slightly hard time to say CRY?
And there are a couple of key points, right,
on why is that, is if we chat GPT, for example,
we have a high, I call it what we have
is a high tolerance for noise.
So if it makes mistakes, if it hallucinates,
we are able to navigate accordingly as per our need.
But if you are deploying enterprise AI system,
let's take an example of retail company,
and you're trying to build a refund agent.
If it gets a wrong refund amount or gives a wrong,
you know, a refund to some wrong person or so forth, or makes
any mistakes, it's a big issue.
So the tolerance for noise is extremely low for B2B or B2B2C and so forth.
So demand for high accuracy is very high.
What that means is for if you take just a horizontal API and try to implement it, you
might not get the kind of accuracy that you need.
And when you don't see that, when the business customers see all these errors, they sort of back
off and then wait. Now, you know, the other issue is for enterprises, you know, they don't want data
leaving their platform, their overall firewall, and they want to be able to do a lot internally.
their platform, their overall firewall, and they want to be able to do a lot internally.
So these are some of the key issues where we have seen, having worked with a lot of clients,
they are not seeing ROI, the PVC is not converting to full system.
The way we address these challenges in the business B2B world is we have built a platform
called AI Studio that allows you to build very industry-specific, problem-specific solutions.
What that allows you to do is highly tune the models for a very specific pinpoint in that given industry.
So we're able to customize it.
We're able to tune with their data, with the customer's data for that particular model to their pinpoint.
To give an example, fraud detection, right? So fraud detection for insurance
versus fraud detection for finance
versus fraud detection for travel retail is very different.
So our AI studio has a platform engine,
we call it AI engine,
which is a fraud detection for travel retail
where it's focused on extracting, sorry,
identifying fraud for tip fraud
or a coupon frauds and so forth.
So very problem-specific, industry-specific solution.
And because of that, we're able to beat other systems on the accuracy it generates,
providing more validation and confidence to the customer.
That's one example.
Another example is, for example, extracting information from documents.
There's a lot of APIs out there, which will get you 75 80 90 percent sometimes 90 but
sometimes for many use cases you might want 98 99 accuracy we have another fraud we have another
engine for information extraction from lease agreements to extract rent rules very specific
uh use case in a given industry with high accuracy. And because of this, our customers are seeing a lot of value.
And because of that, they are starting to buy more services from us.
So that's at a high level.
Sorry to interrupt you.
Moneymark, I just made me think of you and your IDN pick.
I don't know if you've been listening, but does that sound similar to what IDN is doing with fraud detection for banks and social media?
You may be busy. I just called him on the spot.
Okay.
You can feel free to unmute yourself later if you'd like to chime in.
We also have here, Samir, a few executives from your team.
We have the head of technology.
And each year, we have VP of product Giovanni, VP of AI services
Robert Tragetto, a lot of people here.
If any one of you want to just jump in and add on to what Samir is talking about to really
give us an understanding of that end product use and where that hockey stick growth is
going to come from in the next couple of years.
Any one of you, feel free to jump in.
Robert, why don't we, well, actually, let's start with Giovanni since you're a VP of product.
Sure.
No problem.
First of all, thanks for having us on.
I'm really excited to have this conversation.
I think building on what Samir said here and just in terms of being able to deliver
industry specific solutions, one of the things that we see, especially in talking to our
especially in talking to our customers, is that a lot of our clients who are exploring
solutions are looking at very horizontal platforms out there. And there are a lot of
great companies building a lot of great software. But our approach, as Samir has mentioned,
is really to focus on very specific problems that we know we can really solve a problem for
at an extremely high level and really drill down on that.
And so, you know, one of the things that you'll find on our website is some of the work that we're doing
in retail, for example. And there are a couple of different engines that we're really focused on
in retail, for example.
in the retail space, including a pricing and demand simulator that's centered around
kind of transforming and revolutionizing the way that merchandising teams and pricing teams
simulate different pricing strategies at a global or a
geospecific level, a category-specific level. We've done a tremendous amount of stuff in
the fraud space, particularly around transactions. What I would say is that one of the big
differentiators there is a lot of the folks who are doing a lot of fraud stuff are focused on credit card fraud, whereas we're focused on more transactional level fraud and fraud patterns that are more industry specific, less centered around a lot of the data that maybe our customers are not collecting, but centered around the data that they are.
So Samir mentioned coupon fraud, for example,
but we also see voucher fraud, for example, as well,
for some of our customers that are based in airports,
for example.
And then we've also been focused on an engine
to help retailers really see ROI
from all of their AI initiatives.
And we're building an ROI and
governance platform to help them streamline the way as an organization. They make decisions about
the bets that they want to take with AI and that they feel a lot of confidence that the initiatives
that they've greenlit for very specific reasons are likely to lead to the ROI they're looking for.
for very specific reasons are likely to lead to the ROI they're looking for.
So there's a lot of different kind of tools that we've built in that product
to assist a retail enterprise customer of ours as they navigate that journey.
And, yeah.
So Giovanni, the success we've had to date so far is the 8.8 million in 2024 growing 18% year over year.
That was basically organic growth with limited or no work from what I understand.
Where is that coming from primarily?
What's successful here that's like growing organically?
That's part one of the question. Then part two is, what is the thing
you're most excited about that investors should be excited about that can cause a hockey stick
growth in the next several quarters? Well, on that first question, I might leave that to Samir
to take. But on the second question, on my side, I think if you look at our history, we've been around for a while.
And one of the things that I think is most compelling about the work that we do, and I think I have a pretty unique seat in being our VP of product, that I get to look, I have the luxury, I should say, of getting to look at a lot of the problems that are common across all of our customers. And everything from the way that
we've built our platform, which we call AI Studio, to kind of accelerate the way that an enterprise
can not only adopt AI, but do so with a lot of confidence down to the very specific engines that we've
i decided to focus on we have a pretty unique lens it looking at the way that
on the enterprise adopt ai today some of the challenges that they're facing and we have
um the flexibility to build these problem-specific, industry-specific solutions because we're in the trenches working
on solving problems. And as you may be aware, and Rob leads this area of our business, we're not just
a product company, we're also a services company as well. So we have a really tightly woven together
kind of ecosystem in how we understand the problems of the industries our clients are in. And we're really focused on finding an accelerated path to bring value to our customers.
And I think our whole product strategy is really centered around, you know, how can we take those learnings and make sure that we're creating value at a really high level?
So I think being around for as long as we've had, we've learned a lot and we've seen a lot of trends.
And I think we're, you know, we're poised to take advantage of that.
And it's already showing through in a lot of the products that we've been building.
Okay, great.
Samir, if you want to handle the first part of the question, the growth you've had to date, which has been largely organic, is there a particular product that's been driving that?
Yeah, so right now, a lot of the growth has been organic,
and the hope, as I talked about, is as we can infuse that the new capital
will be able to use a big chunk of it on sales and marketing.
So as Gio mentioned, as part of our product strategy
is figuring out this very problem and industry specific
engines and in order to get that get to a place where we see a pattern
of pain points, that particular pain point across multiple clients.
We do provide services,
technology services as well with clients. So some of the revenue is from there, a big chunk of it is there, which also
continues to grow. But as we have rolled out more and more product, the revenue profile is changing
where even the services side, the services side is provided to customize the models, tune the models that lives on our platform or help them integrate our AI studio or particularly AI engine inside their workflow tools.
And as part of the future, I see more and more of new engines that we will be building and rolling out besides some of the engines that you already mentioned.
Okay, got it. We have a few minutes left. I want to turn it over to Wolf.
Gav, you there, if you have any questions or feedback so far from what you've heard?
No, this has been great.
I always love when you can get multiple members of the team on stage as well to answer questions from different perspectives because, you know, there's going to be one person
focused on finances, one person on product. And we've been able to come at this from a pretty
holistic approach. So I do appreciate that. I think it'd be good, Ben, I know we've got to wrap
up here in a minute or two, but just one more time to re-mention the ticker, get that on people's
radars so they can go ahead and write that down and know that the ticker is changing as well.
So that might be good to just point out for people and then just let people
know you know where they can follow up from here to do additional research yeah absolutely that is
that is actually a very good opportunity right now because it's it's not known all right this
is probably going to gain traction when the ticker symbol changes it gets uplisted that's going to
be f-u-s-e it's going to be FUSE gonna happen in
a couple weeks or less but under the exact date maybe three weeks who knows
gonna happen soon FUSE and definitely when that happens there's gonna be some
essential liquidity coming to the stock so those of you who are interested in
what you just heard the common shares right now trades under c s l m f the common shares there however personally i'm not a financial
advisor but i do suggest if you're interested in this story you go via the rights which is c s l
r f because you have liquidity there and it's trading at a deep discount man uh like i said
if this stock retains $10 once Fuse comes
or even if it drops to $5,
those $0.25 rights
will go to $0.50 for $5.
It'll go to $1 for $10.
So that's the way to invest in this ahead.
And personally, I like doing that
with trading. I like to trade
in the days or weeks leading up to
major catalysts and uplisting
the NASDAQ, definitely a major catalyst.
So those are the tickers.
It's CSLRF for the right, CSLMF.
So you can see what the fair value is compared to the commons.
And all of this is going to change to FUSE, F-U-S-E, pretty soon.
By the way, is it going to be FUSE AI or FUSE Machines AI?
What's the name of the company going to be?
The name of the company will be Fuse Machines.
Fuse Machines, okay. Great.
Fuse machines with machines.
All right, awesome.
So sorry we didn't get a chance to talk to Anish or Robert.
And if people want to follow up, learn more about Fuse,
Mo from Gatewatch there, what's the best way for people to follow up on this stuff here?
Yeah, thank you, guys.
You guys can follow us at Gatewatch.
We're going to keep posting information from Fuse as they go into D-SPAC and kind of keep up with them and see how they do.
And like you mentioned before, it's like 10 to 1 for the rights for one share.
And just one edit that I would make is obviously do your own
due diligence. When you have a SPAC and these SPACs, not all of them trade at 10, some trade
higher at 20 or 30, some trade lower at three or $4, right? So just kind of look at it in terms
of the financing and how the transaction is organized. But here at GateWide, we always start
to look for ARBs in these kind of
things and kind of keep on stuff. So thank you again, Wolf, and thank you, Story Trading and
the guests from Fuse. Thank you. That was awesome. Hey, Ben, it's Charlie. Do you mind if I just add
a couple of things about the rights? Sure, go ahead. So the rights are trading at 25 cents, which a lot of people would look at them right now
as pricing in a huge amount of deal risk completion.
And I just don't think it's well understood about where we are in the process.
And I know you asked me about it at the beginning, but I just want to reemphasize.
This deal is closing.
There's no minimum cash requirement associated with the transaction. The deal has been approved by both sets of shareholders, the SPAC and of the company.
The SEC has approved it. It's really down to 1, you're really buying the stock clothing at a significant
discount to where I think it will ultimately end up. I can't tell you where it will end up,
but I think it's just pure deal risk right at the moment. So it's purely a technical situation that exists.
And the other thing I would broadly say is the pull through on this stock is going to be the real opportunity, which I think is really not super well understood either, is that
Samir and his team have developed a number of AI engines for specific companies that can be
duplicated across a wide number of other companies in their respective industries.
And that's going to be what really fuels growth. And why is it going to be relatively easy to
capture that market share? It's because he's got great engineering talent in Nepal that's at a significant discount to a U.S. engineer.
So they can deliver on the product more cheaply and more cost effectively than many of their competitors.
And they really kind of look like an early stage Palantir at this point.
And if you remember that story, 18 months in, it took them a while to get the market to really understood what they were doing.
And you can see where the stock is trading now.
So I think it represents a similar type of story.
Time obviously will tell whether the strategy is as good, but it certainly has the upside potential.
All right. Beautiful. Thank you so much.
And there's nothing else you guys have to do with it.
Everything's done.
You're just waiting for the NASDAQ to affect the uplisting, right?
100% correct.
All right. Beautiful.
All right. Wolf, back to you.
All right. Wolf is busy. I think we're going to think about it.
Hey, sorry, yeah, I'm going to close this out here.
Appreciate everyone for coming on today.
Thanks so much, Ben. Anything you want to say before I close out?
Thank you. I'm good. Thanks, everyone.
Thank you. Appreciate it, fellas.
