okay hi folks can you hear me audio check
yep can hear you bingo hello welcome back to the
second of our zeta talks uh second in a series of talks where we're
inviting industry experts to discuss topics that are of note for the
blockchain industry and around omni-chain smart contracts
in particular so for this session is going to be around smart contracts on
bitcoin which we believe is the next groundbreaking
innovation in web 3 we're just waiting for a few
more speakers to join so why don't we start by
letting the speakers who already here introduced themselves and the companies
that they represent who wants to go first
uh i guess i'll go first um hey everybody my name is moose i'm a core
contributor at multibit um dot exchange and uh
currently i'm basically helping with operational stuff
um doing little product work and a little bit about us is we our original
vision is like the first evm compatible brc 20 bridge which essentially
allows ethereum liquidity into the bitcoin
ecosystem which is like a huge issue essentially
um as the brc ecosystem is like very liquid
um but more recently we've kind of uh adapted the like omni-chain
kind of narrative and bringing in multiple
chains liquidity is not just evm um and essentially we were working with a ton
of different brc 20 projects allowing them a evm or like salona pair which
essentially allows their users to gain access to more liquidity and not
really sell their like brc assets on an otc market essentially
cool excellent uh okay i'll say alex do you want to go next
uh sure hi everyone can you hear me
excellent all right uh i'm had an espiritio with the alex lab foundation i'm
the dv lead um and alex is the finance layer of bitcoin
what we do is that we seamlessly merge l1 assets with l2 programmability and
scalability so on alex bitcoin l1 assets such as
bitcoin and brc 20 tokens can be bridged to l2 smart contract
layers uh enabling uh listing and using brc 20
uh in the notar book we have multi-chain liquidity through the xlink bridge
we have a multi-chain launchpad that connects bitcoin liquidity
to l2s as well as ethereum and binance and we've done um infrastructure work
on the bitcoin oracle to create a consensus layer for greater
security and the mutability between off-chain indexers
thank you happy to be here excellent thanks so much happy to have you here
uh jeb master do you want to go next hello
can you hear me yeah yeah i can hear you yeah no problem
yeah um i am founder of zigrato uh and i am also uh kl in turkey
uh i am based in istanbul turkey and like sharing bitcoin and the ecosystem
like for a long time and thanks to a lot of people in turkey
also learned about more bitcoin alex alex lab for example it's very nice
projects i am very uh i am holder of alex for a long
time and yeah i am also bitcoin maxi
and in the zigrato what i am doing actually
uh we are not uh projects but we are helping projects marketing
in a lot of ways in creating their community
and doing the marketing with other keywords and showing their projects to
everyone and right now is now bitcoin network is
growing very fastly uh today all talks smart contracts on
bitcoin also this is going very fast too because
uh in in the past uh there was not like that a lot of projects
there was just a few projects but right now we are seeing the
bitcoin market is growing and also i am working with a lot of
venture capitalists like and helping their investments
and right now also uh investments on bitcoin ecosystem
tokens growing very fastly especially in the
brc 20 tokens yeah right now actually i am helping the
projects on bitcoin network to growing their
community and yeah liked it thank you so much
awesome great to have you here uh who's going next mr block you just
just uh just got on the line do you want to introduce yourself to the audience
here hey guys uh thank you for having me here
and sorry that i was late um yeah uh so a bit about myself and then
the curve so um i have been in crypto ever since 2016
that's when i started mr block uh which is a crypto tutorial channel
where i've been making um you know d5 video um
inscription uh and so on i've done over 1300 video made a lot of video about
uh zeta ching as well um yeah and so in chinese so it's it's
usually about kind of bridging the west with the east the east with the west
and some of my earliest video were about ave when it was called
eastland and land then ave uni v1 v2 v3 haven then later snx
um yeah so a lot of their early stuff i still do these daily videos um
and in 2020 i joined curve and curve started as a decentralized stablecoin
exchange and being one of the earliest um d5 project during the d5 summer
and pioneered the vcrv design um and now it has grown so much more
and have uh deployed um most of the major uh l1 and l2
and now with uh the collaboration with zeta chain
it enables uh curve uh to support even assets that's outside
of um evm chains so that's something really exciting
uh allow us to tap into the bitcoin ecosystems
allow us to uh look into uh the brc20 assets
uh and on top of that last year we launched the
crv usd which is our uh curved stablecoins
with the soft liquidation that's also something
uh very new and hasn't been done before i think this year uh will be a
very exciting year for curve as we expand to other chain and work closely
with uh our ecosystem partner and also um have multiple
um tools around such as the bribery market uh most people known as the
curve war yeah thank you very much awesome great to have you here and
thanks for the shout out for our partnership we're very
excited to work with curve going forward so wait have you here
okay and i think corbin is the only one of the speakers who hasn't yet
introduced himself so over to you corbin hey guys uh yeah my name is corbin i'm
the head of financial services at bitcoin.com
i got into uh bitcoin and crypto back in 2013 2014 uh says like back in the
days when people would send bitcoin to each other
that was kind of a fun time it was like it's a good vibe man you could
like you could be on reddit saying stupid stuff and then people would be
like hey here's a little tip in bitcoin and
that was kind of how i got uh i got orange peeled but uh
yeah i uh you know grew up i guess around all this crypto stuff it was fun
i ended up growing within bitcoin.com i started uh
as a developer at bitcoin.com back in 2017
was doing some crypto development prior as well
but uh yes now in charge of the product side of stuff i'm
basically oversees a lot of the stuff in uh our self-custodial wallet
where we've got like 46 million wallets created
our wallet supports bitcoin ethereum bitcoin cash
uh avalanche c chain finance smart chain polygon
a whole bunch more all the tokens all that good stuff so
you know we've got this like very valuable domain
with a shit ton of new users coming in regularly
so when elon says you know buy doge buy bitcoin
we get a ton of traffic uh coming in organically saying okay i guess i better
check out this bitcoin stuff so you know obviously with the etf
announcements and stuff like that we've been seeing a tremendous
growth with regards to uh new users coming in uh old users
coming back you know that maybe felt a little burned during the bear
markets and now they're kind of saying maybe it's worth taking another look
so yeah we're you know we've we've been kind of uh
through the weeds we've done the scaling wars we've we've done tokens on
on bitcoin cash before there's actually a lot of stuff
um that i think the bitcoin smart contracts out of stuff could really
uh borrow and and steal um from from other chains including
some of the stuff that we've seen on on other utxo based chains whether that's
bch or bsv or litecoin or any of these other
even like doge um yeah so i i think that's kind of kind of it yeah we've been
kind of focusing on you know more more um
more token integrations more protocol integrations into our wallet
um and yeah we're actively watching you know what's going on with brcs
and ordinals and all that fun stuff um but yeah happy to be here
awesome great to have you here and look forward to getting into that stuff as
well um i think i i missed there was one
um more panelists who we haven't introduced yet which is
to conquer finance so apologies the floor is yours to introduce the
project and what you guys do yeah sure um yeah sorry we had some
technical difficulties um but yeah thanks for having us we're
really excited to talk about this topic uh obviously it's really important to us
and what we're building i'm really excited to see this
movement uh and the conversation coming back towards bitcoin
um a lot of us have been in the space for a long time
and it seems the conversation has drifted a bit and it's really exciting to see
this past year um not just you know the interest but
then also liquidity and money coming back to the space
and then development um so at tonka you know we do the
inscription borrowing and lending so we're the first platform to allow
borrowing and lending of the inscription assets and we think helping
move this liquidity is the stage we're at
and it's something uh really exciting going on in the market
awesome where abouts are you uh are you calling from it sounds like you're out
outside somewhere nice uh a jungle or something right it
it might sound like the jungle i actually live in Puerto Rico
um but yeah you can probably hear some okay
close enough yeah very very cool very cool well thank you to all us because
for joining us um as i said at the start and
new people who are joining might not be aware so i'll just go over it again
this is the second of ours a series of zeta talks in which
um we get experts on very key topics happening
in the in the crypto space the first uh the first talk was back
last month on on uh defi really looking at uh defi summer
and and how that's that's changed since then
this this month's episode is a little bit different we're looking at smart
contracts on bitcoin obviously a huge topic now
i think everybody knows bitcoin etf is is is the biggest
point of conversation in the industry at the moment and i think
better say that bitcoin was very dominant in terms of the
the crypto narrative from um from 2023 which was a pretty bad year for
everyone in the industry really but if you look at what bitcoin did
uh propped up the industry and did and um and the
the price of bitcoin is is only one part of it right there's a lot of
activity in terms of projects coming out and
that's what we're going to touch on today looking at the smart contract potential
on bitcoin so actually corbin did an amazing job of
introducing i guess uh what bitcoin used to be like
and i think you even said it used to be maybe not a lot more fun but it was a
bit more kind of crazy out there um i think that that's where i want to
start uh this this conversation at really
which is uh you know bitcoin obviously is the og with the currency
um i've certainly been um involved in buying it since 2014 probably didn't buy
enough back in 2014 but is it is it is an argument that bitcoin is still is
still cool today um i mean obviously the developers out there can build uh
you know crazy kind of dApps and DeFi projects on
ethereum and uh spilana and other kinds of chains
you know what what is it that makes bitcoin um still
interesting today in uh in a world where you know there's much more developer
friendly uh chains so i'll let anybody uh on the
speakers can can chime in um whatever you like and
we'll go from there so yeah what what is it that makes bitcoin cool today
despite the growth of other more developer friendly
ecosystems out there sure if you guys don't mind i'll jump in on that
like bitcoin is the og right um everyone's kind of got a bow to the
king for it for the time being and i'm i'm i'm not one of those people that
says bitcoin will be number one forever you
know i it's got the most network effect it's
going to be the most difficult to ever shake
but you know network effects have been broken before
you know look at usenet look at my look at myspace look at you know
uh friendster you know all whether it's a bird you know
apps and and companies and things like that do
sometimes flip but for the time being and if at least for the foreseeable future
orange coin is number one so everyone coming into crypto
you know whether you're you're saying hey okay we've got this cool new l2
we've got this great new l1 whatever it's cool but
you're only you're only attracting people already in the crypto space
all of the new users the people you want in your chain
the folks that you want to be onboarded into into your l1 or l2
they've got to start somewhere and they're typically not going
right into your l1 or your l2 it's a little bit too
it's a little little too big of a black box for them they're gonna start and
it's what they're gonna hear about in the news it's what you know
the celebrities are gonna talk about it's what the banks now are gonna say
is somewhat more respectable um you know even if you've got folks
like gary gensler and the icc still saying like not bitcoin that stuff still
toxic waste even though we you know accepted these ETFs
we still don't recommend it um but you know i think bitcoin was at risk
for a few years there of being boomer coin like
it was not fun it was extremely fun before
bitcoin was like man pre pre scaling wars bitcoin was super fun and then
i think we got into this weird kind of vibe for
pretty much from like 20 2016 onwards when
i'd say like network fees got a little bit outrageous for a little while there
uh there was a lot of fighting over segwit 2x and a lot of fighting over
like should we should we increase the block size
you know you had the bitcoin cash fork which then of course proceeded into
bitcoin sv fork which also had some bitcoin abc forks and
ecash and so it's kind of been like this like if you followed the ut like the
bitcoin family and the family drama you know
it's spread out now where this community that was once
one is now this like divorced broken home with like children all
over the world and they're all they'll have their like weird mommy and daddy
issues and uh but at the end of the day they're
all still kind of fighting for what they believe in and i think that's kind
of the cool thing about bitcoin and crypto is that like
hey you can go try it out you know if it if you don't like the way it's
going you can go do your own thing and see how it goes
but i think the way that bitcoin was proceeding for a while was that it was
slow it was boring it was like don't build on this
thing and then you know whether through through
the blessings of the bitcoin gods you know we were able to
i guess introduce a bug or at least a cork and the cork can now be
exploited where fun is able to be you know
brought back into bitcoin and for me it's the first time in like
i don't know i'd say like yeah like since 2016 2017 where i'm like bitcoin's kind
of cool again and you've got people building some
interesting stuff on it and borrowing ideas
where people were innovating on other chains whether that's ethereum or
you know bitcoin cash or polygon or salon or whatever
and they can now say hey we're gonna we're gonna figure out different ways to
do tokens we're gonna figure out different ways to do
nfts and suddenly you've got this permissionless way to use the boomer coin
and the most secure chain and the the biggest granddaddy chain to like do
cool shit and i think it's like it's fun but
there is still that risk factor which for me
you know is one of the reasons we haven't gone all in on being like all right
we should support brc we should support ordinals right away
because there is still that risk that all it takes is like
a few core developers to be like you know what we should patch that
let's kick these guys out we don't want the spam and i think you know we're
seeing a little bit of like some of that concern i guess from within the the
bitcoin community where you've got some people
being like hey man do use bitcoin for whatever you want and then you got
some being like nah we're bitcoin purists we don't want
anyone doing anything except for settlement layer digital gold
so i don't know man it could result in another fork it could be like or it
could just be like another uas like the user activated soft fork where
on bitcoin doing nfts doing ordinals doing tokens
they're going to have to fight and they're going to have to like really get
their community banded together to prevent
you know core developers from cutting them off because it is possible they can do
no awesome um i'll jump in and uh and follow up on that that i agree this is
an incredibly exciting time for for bitcoin
and you know alex began building in 2021 we're
building bitcoin defy and uh and so before ordinals even then it was a very
controversial decision to do but as a team of former uh financial quants
we had the view that defy or that bitcoin didn't need uh defy but defy
needed bitcoin it needed the security and immutability
of bitcoin if there was going to be mass adoption
by which we mean we didn't build looking to compete with ethereum or salana
liquidity but the liquidity of trad by itself
and then 2023 was really remarkable because with the ordinals protocol
we've had the shift of bitcoin from being purely a money layer
to bitcoin becoming a data layer uh with ordinals that was the first time
that you had a satoshi trading for more than its monetary
value it was now trading at a premium due to its block
space due to the data that was inscribed upon it
and we foresee a point of time in the future where
the most valuable information safe financial institutions who are settling
billions of dollars worth of mortgage transactions
they will pay a high premium to settle that on the most secure
and immutable data layer that exists so uh our point of view is though we do
believe the future is multi-chain and that each blockchain will serve a
purpose that in terms of store of value and
store of data bitcoin is likely to remain unique because
of its track record going back 15 years the fact that it hasn't had transactions
reversed its network uptime it has survived multiple 80 percent
drawdowns and its core protocol is still very much
close to what it was on day one and really the core of that
is is is proof of work at the core of that success because with proof of
work you are trusting in the laws of physics
you know it anchors bitcoin to the physical realm in a very
real way for us to look at a future where financial
securities are treated on the blockchain
you know will will these financial institutions be more comfortable
with the proof of work of bitcoin that has
multiple bitcoin miners who are publicly listed and there's an entire
industry behind it and all of this public electrical
infrastructure that is going to be backed by it
to secure that trading or would they rely on say
ethereum where you know early ethereum buyers
you know compose a lot of those proof of stakers
so i think that there are our trade-offs to every trade but that the
the value that bitcoin provides is truly unique
we think that the successful experiments we've seen on other chains will come
home to bitcoin and the point of view of alex is that
if all roads lead to bitcoin all the roads on bitcoin lead to layer two
solutions that can provide the programability and
the scalability that can can provide bitcoin the ability
to really develop a native bitcoin economy
so i think it's an incredible time to be building with the halving cycle coming
up and all these narratives coming together
and we're very excited to be a part of this industry and
you know discuss it on the space with you guys thanks
to kind of go off of a corbin's point i just wanted to add
um like once in like 2040 i mean like all the bitcoin will be essentially
mined um and i'll think bitcoin's new taproot
upgrade and all the brc20 hype it's really given miners a new incentive
um to kind of make money and make it make sense for them to run these
validators you know so i think uh the growth on the
bitcoin ecosystem kind of helps bitcoin evolve in every direction
really as well as its security um and kind of what i didn't mention
what we're doing at multibit is we're also letting evm and like rust
compatible ecosystems hedge themselves with bitcoin's proof of work
consensus essentially um anybody that's been here like since
2016 obviously knows about ethereum classic
um and ethereum having to relaunch essentially so i think
developers are intrigued by bitcoin's security
the fact that it's been battle tested um it's decentralized nature there's only
21 million bitcoin obviously other chains we
don't really know the the max cap of the supply
so it's very transparent for developers um
and yeah i just wanted to add that
yeah and i agree with both you guys um that you know
bitcoin has proven itself as a the best security layer
but also i think at this point after all these different waves you know
institutions now coming into the space that it's starting to prove itself as
that value layer for long-term value uh and i really like what you said alex
about it being um kind of needed in defi space it
wasn't like it needs defi it's the other way around it's like
defi always needed bitcoin um because i think it provides that
underlying value layer uh and security layer so similar to the
modular blockchain structures that we heard a lot about
you know last year uh celeste talks a lot about that
um using each layer on the chain that provides the
the best use case and bitcoin really provides the best use case when it comes
to defi in my opinion uh it all comes back to its
currency and its value as a as a currency and forms of exchange
but then we're tapping into being a bridge now to other layer twos
and other networks that provide more efficiency
and that's where you know with tonka we do that bridge through the
inscriptions staking because these are you know slightly different assets
than borrowing and lending tokens for example um you know inscriptions
are packets of value instead of being fungible tokens
so all of these need systems built out and i think that's the stage we're at
with the current um technology which is really exciting
because you know we're gonna see these waves of attention as things develop
but you know there's almost a playbook at this point and i
we can kind of see where we're at now develop this infrastructure between
networks and getting in front of the right people and moving liquidity in the
right places but there's a lot more to come
because this is just you know just new technology and we still have a lot more
cool anybody have any thoughts they want to add based on what
uh other speakers said the question we're going to move on to the next
okay i take that as being that we've covered that so thoroughly but actually
it overlaps with a lot of the other questions that
that we're going to be talking about which is obviously great because it's
it's a very holistic conversation um i'm just curious like there was some
conversation within that about resistance um about the different
pockets of communities that are living in the
in the bitcoin ecosystem i'm just kind of curious like
ecosystem i'm just kind of curious like whether
you guys um with the work that you're doing obviously to
bring defi into bitcoin and to bring smart contracts into bitcoin
other sorts of dApps um do you see what kind of
resistance do you guys see from the broader community and particularly from
folks who have quite a rigid sort of view of
what bitcoin should should be and what it should be
uh i think i'll take that and just kick it off
um so from the point of view of alex uh particularly
in um in 2021-2022 there was i think a broader and stronger
maxi community um but i think that uh the the innovation of the ordinals
protocol has uh has dismantled that to a really
significant degree um you know at first there was resistance
but the fact that i think to date there's been something like
over 250 million that miners have received from ordinal inscriptions
um and just the amount of community activity
and excitement and engagement it has generated
i think it's it's pretty it's pretty absurd i think to argue at this point
that this has been anything but an incredible positive development
for the bitcoin community in the bitcoin ecosystem and has opened the way to
conversations that um likely about a year ago we would have
expected would be much more you know distant into the future
um and so i think um that we really you know our task is just to
to continue building to sustain the momentum we have to continue building
layering solutions continue building bridges to other chains and really
pursuing the sort of thesis that we had from the very beginning
uh and bitcoin as both a value layer not only of monetary value but a but of
data of settlement as well and so i think that the further that
we progress and that we see um these new fungible token standards and
these new innovations take shape the more that we are that we are moving
away from that sort of you know kind of stagnant period where bitcoin was a
boomer coin and all the fun innovation was happening on other chains
i think now we're really recalibrating and we're seeing that those
most successful experiments on other chains uh like some like to say
maybe you know ethereum was the sort of test net all along
to have those come home to the security and the mutability of bitcoin
just at a time when you have the etfs kicking off or you have to having cycle
and that narrative taking shape and we're really positioned to kind of
seize this moment uh and really um bring out the full potential
of bitcoin i think one of the best value propositions in all of crypto
is that you know bitcoin has a market cap of over 800 billion
and i think less than 0.01 percent is locked up in defi
versus say ethereum where i think about 27 percent
is locked up in defi in one form another because of course you can you
can stake ethereum to earn and so just the sort of pursuit of being
able to turn bitcoin into a yield generating
asset has the potential to unlock hundreds of billions of dollars
flowing into bitcoin defi uh which is uh an enormous opportunity
i think to seize and as people wake up to that we're seeing a dev community
that activity increase community attention increase
and this creates this this kicks off this flight wheel of positive
reinforcement that we're really excited to be on
yeah maybe i could jump in on that personally oh sorry guys
yeah i was just gonna say i i completely agree with uh
the guys at alex i mean like the uh the whole the whole idea with
with what's being built on bitcoin is that it does require a strong community
to continue to defend and i mean like when it comes to crypto
and it comes to bitcoin it is a bit of propaganda warfare
so as long as the community is behind what's being built
with regards to new innovations on bitcoin
whether that's settlement layers whether that's rollups onto bitcoin whether
that's you know native script utility cases
using you know opcodes and stuff like that
it's it's all it all kind of comes down to how much community backing you've you've
got to kind of protect what's being built and i think
having the miners supporting this and making sure that you know they're
sufficient interest post 2040 to uh keep keep the
miners online and keep the hash pointed at bitcoin
then then it's all going to be all right but it it very much is like
propaganda warfare and i i mean uh just having been through the scaling wars
the users in the community have a lot of say
the user activated soft fork for pushing back on segwit 2x which was
you know just a simple upgrade to two megabytes
per block instead of you know one megabyte there's a lot of community
pushback and there was you know half of the bitcoin
community was supporting let's just go to two megabytes that's
fine you know like we can handle it it's
going to be okay and then the other the other half were saying like hell no
we're not touching that and you had like half that the half that was for
the increase was very much for uh they were pro business you know it
had backing from coinbase it had backing from bitpay i think it had
backing from like a lot of the actual real world utility for bitcoin
in terms of like using it as using it as peer-to-peer electronic cash and
using it as a as a means of payment and not purely
just this like speculative asset which i think it'll
always be in some ways but um i think as long as as long as the
community is backing the builders that are innovating and
the the new use cases and that that community's got to be both
users that are using it it's got to be miners that are mining it
and it's going to have to be in some ways you got to get some
some of the devs on board as well if there's a
sufficient pushback on uh on what's being built
from certain interest groups such as you know the
the main contributors to bitcoin it can cause this like
hostile dynamic which i would hate to see because i'm
super hyped to see that people are actually building on bitcoin again
and like i said earlier it it is it was fun
it's it became boomerang but now it's fun again
so just keep making it fun if if if bitcoin's not fun
it has that risk of it kind of just becoming stagnant and i think
what's being built here is what can help the security in the long term
by providing this additional utility whether that's real world assets whether
that's you know loan and lending and borrowing
platforms or whether that's just nft's and games and fun
cool shit that you can put onto onto bitcoin you know do it
um i think what we've seen though is that like lightning
didn't really work so well it's still not exactly
the greatest platform so i think everyone's kind of finding alternative
ways to build on bitcoin uh lightning sucked bitcoin's great
what else can we do how can we how can we keep going and i think
you know seeing all these different you know multi-chain and
you know omnichain layers kind of looking at bitcoin and building across it
and adding new utility man it's it's fun again so uh yeah i'm hyped up
yeah i just wanted to jump in um coming from somebody that
went to the first ordinals meet up back uh at e thenver last year
um there originally was like a lot of resistance
kind of bringing over evm compatible uh capabilities to bitcoin
as well as any other uh like omnichain capability
a lot of the maxis like uh had a lot of pushback anything with the wallet
connect they were against even the ordinals core developers to be
honest too and uh you know we launched multi-bit back in
may so before there's really any hype about
bitcoin or ordinals and i think people started to understand the value
when we started working with other brc native projects
and kind of seeing their excitement and like the value
ad coming from multi-bit because now their assets are basically
being traded more um there's like a unique arbitrage opportunity on multiple
chains for traders and we've gotten like a lot
a lot of adoption honestly and we're just really happy
there's been such a great reaction from all these bitcoin native projects
yeah and i i think we're still just at the early days
for um for this new technology and as to what you're going to say in about
there being some like division um you know i i see that
sometimes in the crypto space especially like even meme communities
talk about being the number one meme and all the rest you know that's
competitive sometimes but i i think we all need to realize that
it's you know it's blue ocean especially with some of this
technology and some of these new ecosystems
so we don't really need to be um you know so competitive we can
definitely find solutions i think working together i think these bridge
technologies are really helping um the conversation i hope
and that you know we can offload some of the system
um to other layers so it just takes a little time
for these new technologies to kind of feel themselves out and then for all the
infrastructure to be built out and um you know i think that's the stage
that we're at now is getting liquidity to the right places because
you know the first stage is creating this brand new liquidity you know satoshi is
trading at a higher value now for the first time
ever um that just created new money so that's a money multiplier
and now we need to give people something to do with this money
um and why not multiply it some more through a borrowing and lending
mechanism but then also be able to transfer that over to other networks and
making it more liquid than the bitcoin network would allow you to
then that helps you move that money faster and hopefully multiply it even
further so all of these are like essential components to like the
underlying nature of our whole monetary system
which i think is pretty amazing and brings the conversation back to you know
what is bitcoin and what is its essential core function
and i think at the end of the day we're all still servicing that same
original mentality which is it serves as a currency and like
you know that's the next stage of currencies these money multipliers on
interesting i just wanted to bring in uh sorry guys i just want to bring in uh
gem master and mr block because i think you guys had some
really uh interesting and uh and and localized insights from the markets that
you're in um turkey and i guess like the greater
chinese um market like what just kind of curious in both of the
countries and the areas that you're in like
is there is there a very unique way that bitcoin is seen obviously we talked
about on the developer side and and more sort
of broadly um the sort of promise that bitcoin
has um now that it's getting back into into
vogue i guess after being um sort of outside for a bit um
what is it the same kind of feeling in the markets that you're in is bitcoin
seen as like a boomer coin or is it is a very
is it is it sort of the the main entry point for
developers and for people who are also buying into
into crypto projects got it got it thank you
um yeah i i think uh in asia um especially um brc 20
inscription ordino has been um going crazy um and i think
you know one could argue that it was pushed
by kind of the chinese-speaking country that
that were pushing brc 20 ordino um that much i remember when i made my first
uh ordino video uh back then ordino walla and unisat was
were just starting uh last year and then uh most people i think most of my
friends in the states don't know about it um and haven't even tried to you know
buy it because most of the inscription or an ordino
were doing otc there weren't really uh a front-end market for you to to buy
them uh most people that uh minted um were
joining these otc on on the wechat group and and through
through there to buy uh ordi and stats uh and pay pay i think those were
three most traded brc 20 uh when when it was um early dates
and it was really the the chinese exchange that listed him
i don't think any u.s exchange even today has listed any
brc 20 i may be wrong um but i don't think any has listed it
started from all the asian exchanges that that
start supporting supporting him so i think um the
back to your question in regard to kind of the
what asia market look into i think they've been
actively supporting like for example i'm taiwan and then taiwan there
is a few vc ones called the sora venture and they've been
i think dedicating their uh a majority of their fund
investing into uh the bitcoin market such as the
uh the ordino wallet uh the turds and a lot of these um
new project that's building specifically on
on top of bitcoin uh and on the side chain uh or innovating you
know tab roots yeah and and i think you know at a curve
while we look at this is also the main reason why
uh we wanted to work with zeta chain because i think
it's also that same feeling you know where uh when ordino is going crazy in
asia most of the westerner uh retail don't know what's going on
right and the same thing happens with you know d5 maxi
like us where uh none of the texas you know support brc20
and it was all kind of very grassroots uh people
moved to bitcoin chain and then try to figure out how to build it
so we decided as uh as one of i think the first bluetooth project that
uh uh decided to take that initiative and um develop our time into
developing and support uh and finding ways to support bitcoin assets
and and obviously bitcoin native bitcoin itself
um so i think soon we'll be able to see um
bitcoin trading on curve through bitcoin network via zeta chain
yeah thank you i can also take in for this question
when i share this bitcoin projects and like my fist projects i share it
in alex steps and when i fist share on my tb3 account
a lot of projects a lot of people in turkey asked me
like how how can i buy it because in that time there was a
no jake's listing or on alex and yeah i take a video on
on my youtube channel how to buy it i show the people how to use xverse
one or hero one and like i said a lot of people even
don't do it and they just buy it mostly on the
jake's like i think the first listing it was
empty and yeah in turkey actually it's very early
like every development site like i am working with almost every projects
in turkey like but there is almost no projects on bitcoin network
and because people don't know exactly in turkey people actually just
like the hype of bitcoin for example i share it also some
mint tokens on bitcoin and it's raises well too
and it takes people attention in turkey but in the development site
i can say it's very early because in turkey people mostly know
buying smart chain our lines solana like that networks but i always
say people in turkey and in europe bitcoin
ecosystem will grow and as you know after the teplod
upgrade the bitcoin network is more suitable
and more face and more security land but i think it will grow because there's
no bitcoin never hack it a lot of projects
like hacking and also doing more things
and yes in i can say this like in turkey and for other
similar countries this is like very early stage like
and the bitcoin networks maybe
growing slowly to all the all the names because a lot of chains as well
there's only hype gamma and is hype comment
than gun and but in bitcoin there is nothing like that because
if you check for example also like alex leaps
like it's always growing like never stopping
but if you check other networks projects like
they hype justice came and then gone people and community always changed but
bitcoin community is always standing like never
nothing and never stopping to support the bitcoin
ecosystem and the projects yeah i think in turkey also
like i said i am working with also some venture
computers and they're starting to invest the
brc 20 tokens and it's so it's good to see that
and i think after that also the there will be more than
developer on bitcoin in turkey and in europe
and people start building yeah thank you for the question
oh great i've always agreed to get a broad international sort of flavor on
what's going on and so so thanks guys for the insight just
going just stepping back a little bit because
there was a really interesting point um i'm sorry i forget i forget who made it
but comparing um the the amount of tokens
the percentage of tokens locked up and uh defy on ethereum versus
uh bitcoin bitcoin being around i think uh
one or two percent and ethereum being around one
one quarter of the tokens i'm just curious like what
you guys think and um uh whether i i think obviously that's
going to change right the amount of liquid is
liquid is going into bitcoin and and obviously multi-chain solutions that
and and bitcoin smart contract uh products that we're talking about and
that we're actually building on folks on this call
but just curious like how long do you think it's going to take for the tide to
turn and and realistically um what kind of level can we expect in
terms of like i guess defy adoption on on uh
bitcoin so how long is it going to take for
for the tide to turn and realistically can we expect
adoption of defy on bitcoin to be at the same level that it's at
on ethereum question to you guys all
sure so um just to kick it off uh for us um we wouldn't necessarily pick out
a timeline we we are certain that it's an inevitability
but the sort of time frame whether it's a matter of months or years
um you know there there are multiple factors we can't control
that'll that'll sort of determine our point of view is that everything is
heading in the right direction for it to occur
much sooner than i think we expected it to when we launched
in january of 2022 i think particularly with uh with the bitcoin etf
although you know i think i think obviously from crypto twitter there's a
bit of a disappointment that price has has
sagged a bit in the aftermath and that's just a short term
noise but with this we are already seeing
major financial institutions and asset managers in the u.s. becoming
increasingly comfortable with bitcoin as an asset class
and a major reason for that is one that bitcoin offers diversification
which is key to any portfolio bitcoin has sort of drivers
all of its own um unique from say equity or from from bond markets
um as well as the fact that um prior to the the btf
um a lot of people don't understand that these pension funds
sovereign wealth funds they have it in their mandate that they
could only invest in say sec uh approved instruments they don't
have the legal infrastructure to say hold the bitcoin wallet that holds bitcoin
so we are progressively having these these large institutional players who
control really an ocean of trillions of dollars
become more familiar and comfortable with bitcoin
and really what we see as the net next step
would be if you have a bitcoin etf it's how can you
make bitcoin a yield generating asset and you know the reason that we haven't
seen bitcoin defy to date as for the very clear reason that that
bitcoin dl1 is not a smart contract layer bitcoin is a payment network
but payment is is instantaneous finance whereas finance
itself it's really how you move value over time
and so you know if you pay a car and with cash
that's an instantaneous transaction the moment that you are financing it and
you agree to seven percent interest over three years
that is a legal contract for the movement of that value over time
and to do that on blockchain uh to transfer legal contracts over that takes
the form of smart contracts and so smart contracts you can't have on
the native bitcoin l1 that's why like alex for example we're
built on the on the stack cell 2 uh which which does have fully expressive
smart contracts through clarity uh that share consensus with bitcoin
through proof of transfer um and so as we really the sort of next
step uh is is what we see bitcoin as a yield
generating asset and and the numbers are actually are
pretty dramatic i think bitcoin for the total market cap
it's um you know if it's market cap is 800 billion
i think wbtc is like is like five billion
so you're maybe looking at like one percent uh salon it's about ten percent
is in dfi ethereum is about a quarter so it's it's hundreds of billions of
dollars in bitcoin that are currently just sitting as a store of value
that can be put to work and it can be put to work
through through through through borrow land mechanisms it can be
it can be put to work through swapping for emerging
project brc20 tokens it can be put to work through
participating in idos such as you know alex has a
multi-chain launch pad where people can participate in idos
directly from their bitcoin wallet with a one-click transaction
and so as we continue to build these use cases ordinals and
nfts new non-fungible token standards on top of brc20
we are increasingly transforming bitcoin into this into this financial
instrument that generates yield and isn't just sort of kept in the
vault um and so you know as far as timeline
uh it could be months it could be one two years
it could be longer but we we always approach this taking the sort of uh
long view and i think it's very well stated that bitcoin
is an instrument for transferring money from inpatient people to patient people
you know i think if you were to pull bitcoin people who have held bitcoin at
one point another the biggest regret is that they didn't hold longer
and i think we'll we'll continue to see that narrative play out into the future
um i absolutely believe in my heart of hearts that 67k
is not the is not the all-time high uh in the history of bitcoin that we're
going to see values far exceed that that you know bitcoin
for all intents and purposes is already effectively more valuable
than gold which is a 10 trillion market cap
which would place bitcoin at around 500k per coin
a coin just for starters and i think progressively
as the rest of the world wakes up to this new superior financial technology
that we're all very fortunate to be very early to to be able to grasp
whereas you know a tremendous amount of people don't which is why
you know these twitter spaces talking to friends and family
education is such a critical part of mass adoption
uh we will see discomfort with an adoption of bitcoin
steadily increase and bitcoin finance will be a byproduct of that that's simply
inevitable because that's what drives the the actual economy the dollars in
circulation is something like 30 40 trillion
the amount of money in debt just the national debt of loan of the u.s is
over 35 trillion when you look at credit card debt corporate debt
global debt it's in the hundreds of trillions
and so you know really bitcoin derivatives and bitcoin finance
does have the potential to far exceed its use case
as a payment network being a financial network
and that is the bitcoin economy that we are working towards building
i kind of want to jump in here i love everything you're saying um
and i think that's been the narrative for a very long time of what bitcoin is
going to do in that huge kind of um moving large amounts of money
serving the financial industry uh one thing that on the other side of
the coin one of things happening now with inscriptions
is we're bringing like we said the fun into this defi space
um you know i think the gamefi i'll talk about how
you know that's going to be a way i think that we get the average person
into the defi realm i think inscriptions are a good use case
a good example as well of kind of a gamification feature
um for for for tokens essentially store value
and then a lot of them offer other things you can do and now you can also
stake those borrow and lend those um it's it's
creating like a yeah an easier on ramp for people that
maybe don't know how institutional investing works
and it gives them the opportunity to participate in some of these systems so
i see that's one way where we can kind of attract
the masses and get like a viral growth i think these institutions we've seen
take very long time to go through all the the hoops and
the regulations whereas the community can develop very
quickly of course you need to give them an easy
on ramp but uh but once that's there we have
things that can go viral and bring in a lot of you know hopefully get a lot of
that bitcoin just held by the average people not institutions
we want to get that state and participating in borrowing and lending
yeah and just as a quick response on our idea launch pad the first project we
launched was uh was wards games token or dg um were incredibly bullish
game find and just as you said that sort of mass adoption
and this was a project that their raised goal was two and a half
bitcoin um and by the end they were 81x over
subscribed there was over 192 bitcoin that was locked into our platform for
that ido and so the the demand is is absolutely there
and i think it's one of the things that people are kind of sleeping on we
absolutely agree that game file inscriptions
are a great way to introduce bitcoin to the masses and engage people and
capture their attention thank you for breaking that up great point
cool any more thought i mean i think it was such a comprehensive answer that
there's not really much more to add to fair on the on the dfi side but does
anybody have uh any other thoughts that they want to
on uh on bitcoin bitcoin uh dfi i guess i guess one thing and maybe this is
just kind of kind of uh semantics but is it
bringing bitcoin into dfi was it bringing dfi to bitcoin
how do you guys kind of uh think about that
well i i i just wanted to jump in um i think
users are really interested in interacting with native bitcoin
not wrapped bitcoin um you know not something that can potentially like have
to hard fork you know people people want to interact
with actually native bitcoin assets um and like the inscription market i don't
know if you guys know anything about rare sats
but assigning value to specific satoshis
um clearly has value and i mean there's a whole market
for uh rare sat hunters kind of assigning value to like
satoshis that can be like historical um
or kind of like after a certain like halving or something like basically
there's like a whole list of different uh rarities
and i mean like the whole rare coin market in the real world is obviously a
very big market as well so it kind of makes sense for bitcoin
um and i feel like a lot of that kind of inspired ordinals
you know assigning value to specific things
on bitcoin and building off of that um and that's really happening now with uh
the whole brc ordinals uh wave um and basically at multi-bit like
allowing liquidity into that allows users more flexibility so they're not
really stuck within a illiquid asset um but can
still rely on like ethereum for examples uh proof of state consensus and uh the
smart contract basically the trustless nature of the
smart contract capabilities um without really having to interact
with like a derivative like wrapped bitcoin
yeah that's actually a fantastic point to make and obviously at
zikta chain that's one of the things that we enable
um with the partners that we work with um
there's no wrapping and it's it's very much a native bitcoin
experience which i think um yeah that's a that's a pretty that's a
pretty key piece i think uh absolutely to um enlarging the
developer community and obviously getting users um
to do to do different kinds of things uh using bitcoin and on
uh bitcoin smart contract projects so thanks for bringing that up
i didn't show them i didn't show us too too hard because i think that the
conversation is that is actually great and that's what everyone's here for
um so yeah okay um what about just i mean obviously
d phi and we talked about bitcoin obviously etfs it's all very much
around around finance and um and you know um
investment options i guess what are the other areas that you guys are out there
out the building i think we used to kind of touched on on some of this but
what are the other areas that you think um are very much prime for
for bitcoin dap so are we going to see is it going to be gaming
um is there a social side like just kind of curious from
from the position that you guys are in in the uh
trenches building and obviously doing partnerships like what are the kinds of
um bitcoin daps and bitcoin products that you think are going to come out
beyond the obvious you know uh d phi kind of
projects that we're already seeing
i mean i personally want to see more infrastructure allowing users to
essentially earn native bitcoin assets um
completely like on the bitcoin network you know like the only way to really do
it so far is to be a be a validator of bitcoin
um like that's the only way and eventually that use case will run out in
2040 you know so we need more applications like games
for users to essentially like put in work and be able to earn native
assets in bitcoin not just games but obviously other
incentive mechanisms as well
i think they have to be easy to understand too because
um the consumer kind of like user base is very limited especially with like
ethereum salona people joining like the brc
ecosystem even they are kind of uh
not super knowledgeable on how it all works essentially and
the infrastructure is just being built now you know so
the people in here are building it
absolutely i'd say infrastructure is absolutely huge in this stage and paving
the way for bitcoin economy in the future
i'd also like to say i totally agree it's uh it's great to keep things
um as native and as close to the bitcoin l1 as possible
um but also having the recognition that uh one is that you know we value bitcoin
for its for its immutability that it's so resistant to change
so um you know alex we are conservative when it comes to the bitcoin
l1 but we're progressive when it comes to building on top of bitcoin
and for example you know if we have to say
what perhaps people can interpret as something of a limitation say with
bitcoin bitcoin maximizes for security and
decentralization but with scalability it's a bit
different um right now it's physically impossible for us to onboard
one billion users directly onto the bitcoin network
the network it simply isn't capable of handling that
and also the bitcoin l1 it is programmable
so yes we want to make say you know inscriptions and brc20
tokens accessible to a mass public but if you're trading brc20 is entirely on
the l1 through say partially signed bitcoin
transactions there is a higher barrier to entry there
on the technical side versus a lot of people who come from web
who are familiar with say like a one click experience or something like what you
would see on the centralized exchange that's why in may you know alex we
really made a hard pivot toward the l1 and we launched the b20 the first
brc20 order book decks where people can take
brc20 tokens they can bridge them onto a smart contract l2 that still has its
finality on bitcoin itself and now they can take those brc20
tokens and they can place order limits they can place market limits they can
have bar charts and they can have an experience similar
to what you see on the centralized exchange
but without taking that custodial risk while still having
open source smart contracts while still having it you know
like your key your coins or keys um and so you know it's these
uh it's these uh abilities that we that we look towards
and really making it seamless for users so that
they can connect a bitcoin wallet and we see a future where we abstract the way
that sort of complexity so that users can come and very
intuitively interact with bitcoin very intuitively
buy real nft trade brc20 tokens without necessarily having to think in the
background what blockchain are they are they on
what matters to them is that it's secure that it's easy to use that it's
efficient and as much as possible that we can
keep that on bitcoin that we can build on top
of it i think is encouraging and accelerating
that mass adoption and in terms of other dApps we see we
see everything that anything that's been successful on other
chains from decentralized identity apps uh to to you know decentralized trading
bots to decentralized forums to gamefi of course
being being major uh borrow lend platforms uh because
again you have a lot of people who hold bitcoin
and who would be interested in borrowing against that versus
selling their bitcoin i think these are all really key
utilities that can incentivize people to to participate
engage have fun with bitcoin uh and lower that that barrier to
entry so that it's very much similar to a web2 experience
uh and very easy for them to use i think we think that's key for mass adoption
yeah i'd love to jump in on that i i think the uh
i think that that that methodology is probably the right one
you know with with the with the iteration of bitcoin we have today
it's just for many people coming in you know they
they're sold this image that you know bitcoin is for everyone it's
you know for the for the whole world but yeah if you are doing a ton of
on-chain transactions and in the way that you would have to
you know building them with script it's just uh
it prices out a lot of people you know uh maybe for
hardcore bitcoin dgns that can afford five ten dollar fees
every time they do a single interaction it's great great good for you guys for
being in a you know wealthy country but yeah if you're in
kind of a third world country or a developing nation or whatever you want to
call it um not exactly the most you know enticing
value proposition to say hey come join bitcoin where you can spend more than
you spend on food in a week in a single
transaction so i think you kind of you gotta you gotta figure out a way to do
it via these l2s however you know i think if that were
ever to change if the bitcoin network does eventually
need to upgrade to a higher block size limit there may be this opportunity
in the future probably not going to happen anytime soon
where you could do more with uh script and you know we've seen that on other
chains like um some of you guys may have used
revoke dot cash um great way to revoke approved transactions
on ethereum and and other evm chains uh that developer rosco callus uh
he uh he did an internship at bitcoin.com years ago
really brilliant young man and uh he actually wrote something called cash
script now this was built for bitcoin cash but
it's it's something that could be used by
any bitcoin family chain so that includes bitcoin
as an l1 so it's it's it's basically a um
it's kind of a high level um programming language
somewhat similar to solidity so if you've ever developed in solidity
kind of an easy thing to start using and then it actually compiles down into
script for you so potentially were some intrepid developer ever
interested in doing things 100 on layer one you could easily take
something like cash script and build it out for bitcoin or any
other utx l chain and run the script transactions and then
you you actually can do smart contracting on layer one you can
do covenants you can do um you know transfers with timeouts you
can do vaults um yeah there's some like really
interesting use cases including even uh some dfi so there are there are people
on other flavors of bitcoin that are building uh layer one dfi
so it can be done it's just it can't be done currently on bitcoin giving
given the limitations with the block size and the fees
which is i think the large reason why we're seeing so many great
uh teams and developers come together to say well you know
we want the underlying security of bitcoin we want we want the sats
but we want that utility and that user experience to be
you know chef's kiss nice so it's got it's got to be
at the moment probably via some sort of um
layer two that that hopefully settles back onto onto bitcoin
yeah and i'll jump in and agree with um what everyone's saying here that
um but also kind of chime in again on the getting the liquidity is the right
places because bitcoin traditionally is one of
those networks and those assets that people hold
and so let's just sit on it in the bank for a very long time and don't do
anything with it so with uh this new system hopefully it
draws more attention and it makes it more entertaining and easier
for people to get that bitcoin that's just sitting there uh and get it
into a place like tonko finance in their
inscription uh where they can earn you know some extra value out of that
and then now that value that they've created can be on a liquid network
where then it can be used and traded by people that actually want to do something
with that value underlying value so i think
that's where we're seeing the the network get to at this point
is just connecting all the the different networks and liquidity to the
right places um but yeah we're going to see a lot more
i think innovation with uh what can you do with these beers
of 20s and what can you do with inscriptions
i think we're just beginning the journey we're going to be very
surprised in the future with some other
potential better use cases that it it serves besides just the currency which i
think um you know is already a great use case
and just taking over that market alone is you know huge
yeah i just want to add i mean up until now i mean everything that's built
been built on bitcoin is essentially centralized like anybody
that has been a part of mount gox and put their money in there
you know like there's never been a trustless layer um
or an l2 really that has smart contract interoperability until now
or it cross chain compatibility for example
um where transactions are executed on another chain
uh so i i think this is really an important step for bitcoin
um and kind of like aligning with satoshi's vision
of being completely decentralized up until now
we've kind of had to trust other people and intermediaries
to operate on the bitcoin network so i think uh
this is a huge uh evolution yeah along those lines we're you know
talking about how the early days of bitcoin and i think it was you know
miners and technical people kind of figuring things out
and it was much more collaborative so i think one thing i've learned
even just doing this talk and from talking to the community more is
i think that's probably one of the first things that it needs is a
community and maybe multiple communities within this
prc20 movement um but a little bit more organized maybe
because again we don't want to be combative or
competitive we want to work together to find solutions that everyone's happy
with um because yeah there's going to be so
many different ways you can use this technology and we want to make sure
everyone everyone's happy and we'll all get a better result
so yeah meme coins maybe long story short i see more meme coins and
no things that are easier to kind of sell on the not uh
on the public other than you know borrowing and lending can be boring if
it's just you know stake some tokens and we'll give you some more tokens
it can be kind of boring to the average person uh so that's where inscriptions
add a layer of fun uh and that's where i see you know
gamefi and other use cases um being a driving factor
in d5 because you need to make a little more exciting a little more fun
to get the average user which again is at the roots
of what bitcoin is you know it's supposed to be driven by
the users not driven by you know the big money financial institutions
so in order to get those that movement back we need i think
more organized communities working together
um and then also some more fun an easy way for people to get involved
yeah as well as like users actually having ownership of their assets now
um when doing d5 on bitcoin i think it's very
like a huge topic being able to like rely on an l2
or uh like a cross chain compatible network
to execute um a transaction for them completely trustlessly
uh and again like up until now it's really hasn't been done
yeah it's a great vehicle you know these uh
gamefi is a great way for people to not even realize what they're doing and
then when they're doing it they're like oh that's easy
you know and they can tell their friends about it and that's that's
what it takes to go viral um which i think we're getting we're
getting there with all our different um experiments on other networks
and i think bitcoin's ready to get the the most out of everything we've learned
with how to grow out these new technologies and ecosystems
yes i also must mention something uh as you know like in bitcoin
is totally is in web 3 and the ecosystem
actually seems like a growing slow land projects
seems like not too much but uh as you know in all the networks
in all the blockchain networks like almost all of them is working like a
web 2 company and they have also building their
all the products takes and other projects but in bitcoin there is not
something like that that's why all the people in here
is building their projects with their own team
and and not getting help from the main blockchain team
and that's why it seems like a growing story but
after such a broad bitcoin ETF and all the big news on bitcoin i think
bitcoin ecosystem and in the future we will see also more
projects like also in the gaming like right now there is no
gaming projects on bitcoin network but in the future when the bitcoin
become more facelift and more usable we will also see the
lot of game five projects on the bitcoin network
and i also agree with the token finance like
i think there will be one big meme token on bitcoin network and
listed on all the exchanges like miners coin base
and then it will be more people will come to a bitcoin network
and explore the bitcoin projects and it will help for everyone
because in the bitcoin network the community is everything because
like everything is web 3 and there is no one company doing marketing
and all the stuff the social media and but if we support the bitcoin
ecosystem and everyone will also see soon
bitcoin is the only truth because we will see more down
when when every token down people trust bitcoin
and will trust bitcoin ecosystem projects
yes this means we take time because always
there is one new chain one blockchain chain is coming yes they have a very
nice last technology products but like i said bitcoin is like forever
and even or my mom my father knows bitcoin and
even they are trusting bitcoin but they don't know anything about all the tokens
and yeah in the vendor web 3 will develop more and
also when there will be no more community and
more developers on bitcoin it will grow most mostly
and like i said we are i am thinking we are
still very early states and also this data chain also like great
examples for the next blockchain projects because
it's like exist all crypto chains in one place
and you can combine to you using your blockchain networks
and and then you can come again to bitcoin network
and yes like i said we are like very still only and i am believing like there
will be some projects and maybe one meme token
maybe it's not a great example but as you know the meme tokens
are the marketing of the blockchains networks
and yeah i am thinking like that we are very early and in the
smart contracts on bitcoin for example there is no developers almost no
developers on the bitcoin network but i think in maybe one or two years
this will be more and also likes it's good to see there is
more projects on the bitcoin and the venture
companies and all the qs also always asking me
do you know any projects on bitcoin for the investment
because investing in bitcoin projects and bitcoin ecosystem is
more trustable because i know this this token will be there in forever or
this order nft will be there forever
yeah thank you so much also for this amazing space
thanks guys last so the last one we did we went on for two hours and i think
we're about an hour and 15 minutes in so i'm happy to run
to run longer i've got a couple of questions i still want to ask based on
the conversation so i think we'll go from there and then
if you guys have other things that you want to add
feel free to so we've discussed what makes bitcoin interesting
in today's age we've discussed how it's evolved
in the last few years we've discussed the challenges of building
of developers building on bitcoin we've discussed the solutions for doing that
we've discussed some of the products that are going to come through
one thing we haven't discussed in so much detail is
the sort of time frame that that's gonna gonna happen up essentially and i
guess a lot of people will be quite curious
this year you know what's gonna happen obviously we've had the years begun with
ETFs and it's been a big announcement and there's been a lot of
expectation but just on a broader level in terms of development and also other
areas how do you guys see bitcoin playing
out this year and over the next few years too
um as far as say major developments for prepared this year
um i think as we approach the bitcoin having in april
there'll be um you know a lot of a lot of media discussion
around it which again i think the more that people hear the word bitcoin
um it's kind of like advertising you say it isn't the the first or second time
but usually the seventh or twelfth time that you see in that that you pay
attention i think there's still a huge mass audience
of people who need to hear bitcoin 30 50 times
before they finally queue in and kind of want to learn a bit more about it
so i think um the bitcoin having will be an important narrative
if we look at you know bitcoin's rainbow chart at least historically
it would predict that we should see likely another
bull run or all-time high sometime in 2025 of course
you know uh past returns don't use guaranteed future results
but um that's a possibility um i would say on the on the l2 side two
things that uh at alex we're excited to see
happening this year is that uh stacks will be releasing what they are
describing as a the naka motor release sometime in
april before the having uh for those who aren't familiar like
stacks it currently operates at bitcoin block times
which you know obviously for defi users uh who are used to the experience with
other chains it can be slow waiting 15 30 minutes
for a transaction to confirm uh with the naka motor release stacks
will be bringing down its block times to about five seconds
which is comparable with the ethereum uh l1
so i think that will be uh a huge transformation
in terms of the l2 user experience on bitcoin
uh and stacks will also be releasing this year
uh what they are terming sbtc um and the significance of that is
obviously there are there are lots of different kinds of
raw bitcoin there's a wbtc which is the largest by market cap on
ethereum but that is governed by a very say
centralized entity um on on say the the the liquid network
there's a there's a federated bitcoin peg in peg out with about 60
fixed federated validators um and you know what stacks is doing with
sbtc is to create the most trust minimized
representation of bitcoin that we've yet seen on the smart contract chain
so with sbtc it will be an open and dynamic federation
that will be really a remarkable experience and seeing just how
trust minimized that we can make bringing bitcoin over to
an l2 um of course you know ideally it would be great if we could do it
completely trustlessly through smart contracts but
bitcoin l1 it's not a smart contract chain and so
the solution that we can you know create at the moment
is a design that really minimizes trust as much as possible
so you know these infrastructural elements uh
a d of really trust minimized way of bringing over
bitcoin as well as that dramatic uh increase in in l2 transaction speeds
that are still settled directly on the bitcoin l1 um i think might be
really big improvements and will contribute to that narrative
of having and these sort of expectations of there being
another big bull cycle in 2025 as well as in the macroeconomic sense we've
seen the fed this year uh officially pause rate hikes
they've predicted three rate cuts um as interest rates come down this is
obviously bullish for long duration assets such as
crypto and tech stocks because you have all this global money
that will continue chasing high returns and they're more likely to shift into
speculative assets as interest rates come down and so
i think again we have multiple factors on the l2 layer on the l1 layer on the
macroeconomic scene in terms of this overall media narrative of the bitcoin
having and the expectations of all-time highs
that are creating this kind of perfect storm that
might possibly lead to some you know what some even
prominent bank analysts are considering a super cycle
where you know we could see bitcoin not only hit you know an all-time high
it could exceed 100k 200k uh and you know with the additional liquidity
that etfs allow to flow into spot bitcoin market
it could really blow our minds you know if anything uh bitcoin has already done
that uh with with with each cycle and i
don't see any reason for that to pausing now
again we don't know necessarily when it could be delayed until 2026 2027
you never know what might happen globally if there's
an outbreak say of of a war god forbid
then you might have a shift that people into
uh more risk adverse assets but the long-term narrative is secure
that and you know human civilization is driven by technology
bitcoin and blockchain is the superior technology for the settlement of
transfer of wealth not the traditional legacy finance we
have now which still does things the way that they
were done in 1920 1933 uh it's it's kind of ridiculous and so
you know superior technology will win in the long run
and that's why i think again bitcoin is an instrument for transferring money
from those who are impatient from those who are patient
and so um you know hold long term and i do believe that we stand to be
rewarded not financial advice thank you
well when i heard that question i heard uh kind of wen moon
and i i think the the technology like you're kind of saying we don't know
but maybe i take a little more optimistic approach and um
i i think one thing was missing at the beginning at the outset you know there
was some pump there declined a little bit now we've
had a more recent pump i think it just didn't have
the the network it needed to go viral and i think that's what has just been
developed now with all the different bridges to different networks getting in
front of the the correct buyers connecting all
these buyers and sellers for these these new inscriptions and this new
technology so i think you know it could be any day now you
know or it could be a year from now it could be three months from now
um i think it's just one viral concept away
from from really bringing a lot more attention a lot more liquidity
a lot of other projects that are going to be just similar to that
you know and like we said i i still think there's a lot more innovation here
i think we're just scratching the surface and there's going we're going
to discover more use cases so you know we can't really predict it's you
know we couldn't guess ordinals were coming
um you know it was just discovered so we're kind of playing in that territory
where it's really difficult to say when because it could be any time now
but the good thing is yeah that's what we're building is the infrastructure
it needs in order to go viral when the red idea comes because if it went
you know if it was the red idea earlier you know it just wasn't connected to
enough people to grow large enough hit that um
you know the critical uh capacity so i think we're there now and that's
what we're really excited to be a part of
maybe i could uh sneak in the uh
the normies aren't really aware of brc 20
they're not aware of ordinals they're not aware of
even nfts you know they their knowledge of nfts is
you know paris hilton on i don't know if it was jimmy kimmel or jimmy
phallen one of the jimmies pretty limited to like monkey jpegs and
that's kind of it and i think the the current news cycle
you know with the talking heads at you know cnn and msnbc and
whoever else it's you know they're they're getting bitcoin news from
the bankers right now they're getting bitcoin news from
og kol's who are no longer i would say who are not exactly
pro progressive bitcoin development so they're not exactly
the type of people that are promoting brc 20s or ordinals
they're going to talk about bitcoin as if it's a new asset class that's better
than gold and that that's going to be the narrative
for the next year here um what i would hope to see from this
community is is emerging alternative key opinion
leaders who are able to explain clearly and
succinctly the value proposition for the developments
being made on bitcoin through either layer twos or
ordinals or brc 20s or any of these other great things that are being built
but they need to be brought to the retail so that they're
they're aware that this the big ones more than just digital gold
digital gold was the old narrative it was digital cash for a bit then it was
digital gold and now it's a it's something something else it's a
settlement layer it's a secure chain it's a developer friendly chain where
people can innovate still and yes it is digital gold
for many and it may always be however there is that that need to explain
the utilitarian purpose for it because i think for a lot of
retail that's still what a lot of people look for is
they they say okay well what's what's bitcoin you know why is it 10x better
than you know um my my s&p 500 you know
index fund or whatever um you know i think this is this is where
the ability to explain these i would say kind of nerdy
somewhat techie uh concepts to normal people is going to really stand out
and i think these types of conversations these types of you know x spaces and
stuff like that it's what's going to help
refine and sharpen that sharpen that that sword so that when
the right kol's emerge and and communicate succinctly to retail
and to these talking head media folks and they replace the
you know og pump kind of folks that are just talking about digital gold and etfs
and really kind of you know laying down that base layer
someone's got to add that sugar and spice and i think it's it's folks in
this community that are going to stand out
and really explain this stuff to retail and explain that bitcoin's more than
just you know boomer coin it's great it's
great if you want digital gold it's great if you want the etfs
great have fun with it but there's also
you know a emerging community that's that's that's kind of growing before
your eyes and and yeah i think this is a great path
yeah just to add there's a lot of like emerging builders and artists
that want to start building on bitcoin because they want to assign
their work or their product with value on top of value
you know like i know i have some friends that have like a warehouse of
bank fees they collect and they basically went on like a two-month
like sprint of like basically trying to find a a rare
satoshi worth putting the bank see on and
kind of assigning the ownership to that satoshi
um so i i think it's really interesting here because like
like when you build something on like an evm compatible chain for example you're
you're essentially minting value and backing it to an asset with value like
creating a pair with ethereum um what you're doing on bitcoin is you're
assigning value onto a satoshi that already has value
you're not really creating value out of thin air here
you know and people are really interested in uh
that kind of uh angle i think yeah i've used that example actually a lot
continuing the gold analogy that yeah now we just have the capabilities of
like gold forges and gold artisans so you can take what was just uh
you know a gold nugget and you can actually make gold jewelry or gold
ornamental like we all know that has more value
or even uh with pairs of 20s like gold coins and then you have
the tech layer which we haven't even got to yet where we use golden technology
and we're going to get to that that stage i believe too with brcs
uh or with ordinals inscriptions in the future
yeah i don't think people have started to understand that at all i mean like some
art some really good artists are coming out there
starting to release works on ordinals um and even inscribing their work on like a
rare satoshi that could be that has intrinsic value that like has
a market value of a high price already and then they're putting their
unique pieces on it um and like the same kind of goes with like
minting like a brc20 token like what is your project about
um and kind of allowing users to interact with that um and monetize off
like turtsat for example is a great um also another great
platform um and they basically launch brc20 projects
for people and their users can basically get into these
these rounds really early i mean like i know that's like a very general use
case but um nope we haven't really seen
anything like that with bitcoin um until this year so
yeah i think it's another example about any some game file elements um
and getting users i think that's the first thing so that's why uh
i think i'm really excited to see just easy uiux i really like to throw back
to the old school like arcade games as well
uh i think that's a great way to get especially if there's some movers
that's still holding the bitcoin i think that's a great way to get them
to interact with it um yeah and get it places uh you know
more liquid give everyone else more access to it
yeah as well as like every other chain to now hedge themselves with
actual bitcoin native assets you know i i mean like we talked about the digital
gold concept like anybody that's like read um like
the infinite machine um which kind of is like a book about
the uh the starting of ethereum and how it kind of begins with uh
her in argentina like being hyperinflated in her bank basically
closing her out of her bank account when everybody kind of
had a bank run and was trying to uh withdraw their money
and couldn't um so that was the first use case
you know and now people are actually assigning value to satoshis
and building things on top of the network so i think this is the next step
okay so end of year you're thinking that this kind of stuff comes through let's
have some hard sort of uh some hard predictions for
what we might see things non-obvious things that we might
see happening by end of the year
um non-obvious things uh i guess it's all obvious things i don't
know as you as you like right uh well one i
wouldn't be surprised if we saw if we saw another uh fungible token
standard say like uh atomicals or uh one of the one of these other token
standards also take hold and gain really firm popularity
um but um yeah i think i think that would be uh definitely a major point and
i think we're going to you know if you look at where we've come
from you know i think it was uh it was around this time it's almost
been a year i think and since ordinal's protocol was was least
domo data then began the brc20 protocol and i think
mid-march um you know if we were having this this call last year i never would
have imagined that say like orty would have a market cap of well over
what billion like it does today uh to say nothing of the rest of ordinal
space and then brc20 space and so i think i'd be pleasantly
surprised to see um you know some of these other uh
standards sort of uh take hold um
and um and to see you know again increased engagement
with uh with with with with with gain five with entities
and uh you know this is just really a sort of hope but of course i would love
to see bitcoin hit uh new all-time highs before
the end of the year i think that would be a really great
segue into 2025 and could really set the stage for a massive a massive crypto
super cycle um and so you know kind of big fingers crossed for that
but uh you know regardless we're here for this sort of long term
yeah i personally see more uh like evm compatible rust compatible
um and different layer twos uh creating brc20 pairs
and uh either or integrating the network um and other l2s
um yes i like i i really see more people kind of just
just like how bitcoin's original use case was hedging your get hedging yourself
against like a government or country's inflation now uh building on the bitcoin
network is basically hedging yourself to the proof of
work consensus and whatever chain you are on um kind of giving that option
yeah i'm really excited to see what comes out especially with um
the new bridging and all that's all the things that are going to happen once we
get this in front of more eyes um you know every network is kind of
segmented so i think that's been a big thing a big
movement over the past couple years in the crypto space is a lot more bridging
more access to different networks which has been great um so yeah it's just
bitcoin's turn to kind of get involved and get connected to all these other users
that um you know like we've kind of talked about have kind of moved away
from bitcoin a lot of the users in the past maybe
five years maybe even just got bitcoin just to get over to ethereum or another
network whereas in the early days it was like you went to bitcoin first you
kind of had some experiences there before moving over to ethereum so
um i think it's great timing to see what's going to happen now
now that it's finally connected to uh the masses i think it's
a good time to see some some new big projects
um yeah so just excited to see what we can build
yeah i think the the bull case here as well is it's not just new
folks coming into bitcoin it's it's also dormant
bitcoin holders being reactivated into the bitcoin community and and
kind of maybe they've ignored it for the last two years
maybe even three and they're just kind of like okay let's see what's going on
and with the etf news with potentially the halving
there's kind of a stronger incentive for some of these dormant wallets to say open
up their app again this is something we see
in the bitcoin.com wallet ecosystem all the time each cycle man it's like
when the market starts heating up a lot of dormant wallets start
coming back online and you know seeing what's going on and
uh yeah i i think that becomes this
opportunity for them again to talk to their friends and their family and
and kind of explain what's the latest you know in their wallet what's the latest
in in in the bitcoin space what's happening
and i think if there's stuff to talk about outside of just
digital gold you know we're fighting inflation we're
you know a bit of an fu to to uh traditional fiat money
then i think people are going to start taking a look at it from like
alternative points of view from nfts from art from real world assets from
lending and borrowing from you know yield-bearing assets
and i think if that's all happening on bitcoin that creates
a lot more of a a wider funnel to acquire more people from the new cycle
from the you know a lot of people talk about crypto or bitcoin having like
it was like the class of 2000 2011 and then there's the class of like 2013
and then there's a class of like 2017 and there's a class of 2020
and they all kind of join in these like waves right and they're usually like
market cycle waves and we see that you know with traffic to bitcoin.com we see
that to wallet installs we see that to you know dormant uh dormant users that
become reactivated and suddenly that address is like
doing stuff again um so yeah i think i think this is going to be an exciting
exciting year or two 2024 2025 it's the time to kind of be involved and
it's the time to build fast and and ship fast and get stuff out
and get get people excited again make sure your your team is ready
make sure that it's very clear what uh what could happen
and make sure you've got plans for you know the top
best case scenario and the bottom worst case scenario
because if your company or your project isn't built for the highs and it's not
built for the lows there's a huge risk that you may not be
there for the next cycle so you got to build for like
build for generations don't build for just this top cycle
don't build for like one bear market you got to think rainy day funds you got to
think how am i going to survive the next bear market
because it's coming we might be through the worst of
of this one but there's going to be another bull cycle
and then guess what there's going to be another bear cycle and that's going to
keep happening so yeah i think you just got to just
got to be on the lookout i'd love to see as many of these l2s as many of
these different projects continue to exist on bitcoin
years from now so i hope everyone just make sure they've got the right team
right bean counters and finance to make sure that they're going to survive
awesome yeah i couldn't i couldn't agree more um
just to toss something out there that might be a little bit
from left field but i would also love to see
um an increasing narrative of bitcoin and the and a really incredible role
that it can play in terms of energy infrastructure
and this is something that is really unique to bitcoin because bitcoin
you can actually think of it as a unit of energy
um and this is something i like to geek out on because i was uh you know a
physics major at college but um you know like when you think of what
have been some of the challenges for renewable energy sources
you know like you have these vast tracts of deserts
where you could put in these like massive fields of solar panels
but then connecting those panels to the main energy grid
can be vastly more expensive than installing the panels themselves
or say there's um you know like a waterfall in the remote canadian
wilderness and again there's enormous potential there to
harness that energy but connecting it to the main grid is a
huge challenge as well as what do you do with all the excess energy that it
produces you know bitcoin is really
remarkable in providing uh and providing a solution for that
because that massive you know solar farm uh somewhere in the Nevada desert
when it's producing much more energy than the local districts might need
that energy can be used towards bitcoin mining and generate
a very a very effective yield and that completely changes what the economics of
that energy generation may be um and so i think especially as the
price of bitcoin uh increases this further makes these
sorts of remote energy infrastructure projects
all the more likely to be financed and built out
and i think that can be really transformative in creating a more
robust the more secure a more renewable and overall around eco-friendly
energy grid and this is something that uh you know in my view makes bitcoin
almost miraculous because this isn't something that can
ever be native to say a proof of stake system
it is because you know bitcoin is very firmly anchored to the physical realm
through proof of work and so you know i would love to see that you know take
off and once you know those light bulbs go up
over people's heads it'll completely flip upside down
this sort of a flood narrative that uh you know bitcoin
wastes more money than the nation of argentina does in the year
uh to bitcoin actually opening the doors
for for the for the sort of greenest most sustainable most renewable explosion
um and renewable energy infrastructure that we've yet seen in the modern era
so you know that's another one i'd say i really have my fingers crossed then
i think uh it's only a matter of of when it's not a matter of if it will
happen uh the sooner it happens uh the better
for all of us and so that's uh that's another one i'll
throw my hat in the ring for
well said well said very very uh great great uh comments from you guys thanks
so much okay so we're gonna shift gears a little bit and uh open the
conversation up to the audience so if you're listening to this chat
and hopefully you've been there since the start but also if you just joined
and had um some of the insights and conversation
from our panelists and you want to ask them
a question uh request please make a request um to speak and
we will let people in so they can ask questions to the panelists
okay i don't think i'm not a co-host so i don't think i can
actively actually approve uh people so i have to wait i'm looking for some
requests jonathan here okay let's see
yeah go ahead and request to be a speaker if you have a bitcoin question
yeah we would like we would like questions to be on topic i know
last time you had some pretty general questions so if your question is very
general you won't get to ask it you will be skipped
any questions at all we can't believe they want any questions
i mean we obviously that comprehensive that there's nothing else to ask
i gotta say it it was quite thorough being a fly on the wall here let's try
to talk to you uh tokyo you're a speaker you were hanging out in the request
bin for a while uh go ahead and ask a question if you
on facts um what you feel about the program language is c++ time
bitcoin build upon and um how do you think it's
it's enables more layers used to actually um really build something unique
compared to um the dynamics of a selecting or move or
other ecosystems do you feel um it's a little too old-fashioned or
it's actually much more secure something
really i don't know if any anybody else could
could hear that and understand the question
yeah i think the the question was just regarding
the programming languages for for bitcoin versus
solidity and how that might involve l2s um
i jump into to say that um the uh you know stack uh alex is built on the
on the stack cell too um i think something just notable to say is that the
bitcoin script uh it's it's turning non-complete
um and it's actually you know a language being turning non-complete
does not necessarily mean it's uh it's it's a lesser than uh turning non-complete
can often uh simplify a language in the way
that can uh you know will prevent potential
exploitative measures say like uh like endless like like while loops and other
um you know another another potential avenues of
of exploits um so you know the stacks is alex is built on stacks which is an l2
that is coded in uh in clarity uh clarity is also a turning non-complete
language and it is what's called a decidable
language and so uh clarity it's broadcast to the
blockchain exactly as it's written without having to be
compiled in the human readable form uh solidity which is turning complete it
has to be compiled and turned into machine code so it's
broadcast to the blockchain as sort of hexadecimal
so if when there is an exploit say with solidity
it's much more difficult to to to audit
because what's being broadcast isn't in the human readable form
versus say with a way with the clarity um
so that's just one of the considerations that uh alex was upon and deciding on
where to build a defi on um and i guess that gets into a bit of the
the sort of nitty gritty and unless you're you're sort of dead maybe the
topic goes a bit over over your head but um
yeah i think i think really you know looking at building things from the
ground up turning complete versus non-complete
languages and of course you know there are trade-offs obviously you know
solidity uh is much more widely well known and
adopted by developers versus say some of the nuances they might
have to learn uh in mastering clarity for example
uh but uh in in in the long term when you are prioritizing say security and
immutability uh we feel that it's that it's worthwhile
so i don't think that entirely addresses your question but i guess those are the
two cents i'd add to the conversation thank you for asking
that was perfectly answered
oh thank you very much excellent john i think
we can wrap this up with final thoughts if you want to take it away
yeah sure sir i mean as jonathan just said if you guys have any any closing
thoughts i think we've covered a huge amount
on this as i mentioned earlier we covered um
you know why bitcoin is the og how bitcoin has
developed in recent years going from i guess boomer coin ish
to now being you know very much front and center of what's happening
in web 3 we talked about etf we talked about
the the growth of tools to build and develop on the bitcoin blockchain we
talked about what might be in store coming soon and you know
the obvious and the less obvious too um so yeah over to
you guys if there's any sort of uh closing comments that you that you
want to add um then the the floor is yours but
thanks so much for your insights
uh thank you it was great to be a part of the spaces really enjoyed the
conversation with all of you um you know i thought i'd uh you know of
course would love it uh to have uh users follow the alex twitter account
or join our discord at the discord.g slash alex lab
uh again you know 2024 will be a big year for for for bitcoin
and for bitcoin l2s uh and we're really excited to continue to build
really the defi layer of bitcoin connecting the l1 to l2s
connecting you know ethereum and binance liquidity
uh to bitcoin you know that's infrastructure that we already have
built in with uh with the alex bridge um and so
yeah you know if you have an opportunity definitely uh you can check us out
uh yeah and zettichain you know uh you guys do amazing work as well
thank you for having us uh us on always happy to talk bitcoin defi
uh and thank you to all the other speakers i've learned a tremendous amount
and uh and really appreciate the work that you do in educating others and
uh you know being being builders in the space because
we know having survived our first crypto winter it isn't easy
and uh and absolutely the most bullish thing you can do
is uh is survive and so uh you know here's to
to keep you know trucking on and and hanging in there because
i think it'll definitely uh pay off long run thank you everyone
yeah maybe uh maybe i can say say my farewells as well
the uh i mean the whole market's pretty optimistic looking right now so
i think ride that wave you know enjoy the vibes
have fun make friends make allies you know make
create a great community that's kind of key um
you know i think with with with us at bitcoin.com
you know we do not yet support shame on us right guys shame on us
we do not yet support brc20 we do not yet support ordinals
we do not yet support l2 uh l2s on on bitcoin
however we are very much looking at these as possible
additions to offer to our users so you know we've got 47 million wallets
we're we're open we're looking for it you know we're we're trying to find the
right ones to play with and the right ones to introduce to our users and it
largely depends on i'd say the user experience
the developer support the uh i'd say that aligned mission and i
think it's very clear based on the conversation here that a lot of folks
here are aligned and on where bitcoin can go
and and how how it can not only become i'd say a more positive force to kind
of like bring back some fun in boomer coin but
actually elevate crypto as a whole i think the the the multi-coin the
multi-bridge aspect of being able to trade assets and and across chains
across l2s across bitcoin from ethereum to other
assets it's it's going to be an exciting few years ahead so really
looking forward to seeing how this all progresses over over time
and yeah drop us a message as well if there's any any
l2s any chains that want to that want to come
come play with us we'd love to hang so yeah let us know
okay well i'll take a second to jump in and say bye as well appreciate
this yeah in-depth talk learned a lot uh keep it short and sweet
come check out tonka finance uh check out all of our socials follow us on twitter
and then yeah i think it's one of the like we've discussed one of the best
early use cases for ordinals and inscriptions
um you know come uh get more value out of your inscriptions
essentially and lend them out do some borrowing and lending
and help move that liquidity uh to create more liquidity out of it and get
more people interested in these brt20s
hello again thanks for this amazing activity space and hosting the
space attache and i agree with my friends for
their opinions the bitcoin networks is like like i said is i think still very
early and still very in the beginning part
and like i think we will see more projects like alex lab
like tonka finance in here and this ecosystem continue to grow
and like also like if you need any help
if you are building projects on ordinal nfts
or on bitcoin i am happy to collaborate i can share with my community and
helping your growing your community yes it was a really nice
through space i couldn't speak i am very sick
for it the method is very cold right now in
stam tuki yes have a nice day everyone
see you later guys yeah i just wanted to add if there's any
projects or blockchains out there interested in
adding a brc20 pair we can facilitate that as well
and kind of help founders be their liaison into adding their pair
and walking them through kind of the math
if they don't want to add to their fdv for example and stuff we can all handle
cool okay i think that's everyone so uh thanks
thanks so much guys um i think uh one more important
uh note is to mention the rewards that we have
um from this so community members um can win a pool of a thousand alex and
500 i think in uh in tokens as well um for reviewing
the ama um details on our twitter account if you scroll back a bit
um there's a link and 20 winners chosen for retweeting liking commenting
10 for live questions 10 for screenshots and
five for content generated from the ama as i say uh check back our twitter
account and all details are going to be there
thanks again for the panelists thanks so much for your insights and your time
we look forward to having a great year of bitcoin in 2024
take care and see you next month for the next episode that we have
ciao thank you everyone take care