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Solarpunk India Pt. 2 w/ @DustinJacobus
Recorded: Oct. 5, 2023 Duration: 1:13:40Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you for joining us.
I mean, it's just, I think, a 10-second music on loop.
But, yeah.
It was terrible.
I love Twitter music, Twitter space music, but this was weird.
This was the same one.
Yeah.
Anyway, I'm very happy to see two of my very good friends here, Nathalie and Kulbin, two
very solarpunk-aligned people, two very solarpunk-aligned people, so I'm happy to see you here.
We'll wait a few minutes. We are waiting a couple of, well, the main guests, Irtu and Dustin.
Yeah, I'm just following up with Irtu and letting him know that we are live. I think he would have got caught up with the call or something.
Just let me, just let me, just let me give me a couple of minutes.
There we go.
There we go.
Yeah.
Hey there, Ritu. I'm just sending you a co-host invite.
And just for you to know, Kulbin, we have an expert in mushroom cultivation here, so just saying, eh?
I think we have our guest speaker as well. Welcome, Dustin. I've just sent you a speaker request.
Please let me know in case you're unable to sign.
I can't hear anyone.
Is there anyone speaking?
No, no.
We weren't speaking.
I was thinking you were getting knocked down a bit too.
But yeah.
Am I audible enough?
Is there any network glitches at your end?
Can you hear me properly?
Yeah.
We'll just wait for a couple of moments.
I'm just trying to get Justin onto the panel.
I've sent him a couple of requests, but I'm not really sure if he's able to join.
Yes.
It should be okay now?
Is this correct?
Yes.
Okay, great.
Welcome, Justin.
Let me just quickly introduce the space and I think we can let the hosts take it.
So, welcome.
Welcome all to the Atlantis Climate Radio.
This edition.
Today, we are basically going to be discussing what we had discussed, I think, a couple of
weeks earlier.
With Dustin, you know, building a solar punk India session with both Ritu and Guido.
But before that, I would request everyone over here to like and retweet the space so that we get more folks as we grow through the conversation.
But nevertheless, I know we are running on a tight schedule today, so Dustin, I would like to welcome you on behalf of Atlantis and Guido and Ritu, please take it away.
So, I'm going to wait for Guido to speak.
okay okay fine uh and maybe i'll just start as well i i think last uh session was super
interesting in terms of all the things that we started speaking uh for people that who weren't
here last time around uh what we were looking at is like what kind of ancient design in india
or in urban or rural india is similar to the solar funk aesthetics and we realized that there's too
many similarities and we soon realized that one session is not enough and that's why we're having
a follow-on session and the conversation is mainly going to be around like how can we bring back
like uh this uh culture of uh being one with the nature and building sustainable solutions
more green solutions without sacrificing on progress or growth uh especially in a country
like india where like uh we're very growth focused uh how do we ensure that we do it in a
sustainable fashion how do we do it in a regenerative way um so we're going to have a conversation around
this and uh to speak about this we have uh earth-based soul he's a very experienced biologist
and conservationist so he has a lot of practical knowledge around what can be done and along with
him we have dustin uh dustin's uh someone who has been thinking solar punk maybe before any of us
did uh he's had he has a lot of original visions around it so this is going to be very interesting
uh because we're just not going to dream like uh oh what's possible but also it's going to be
a lot of it is rooted in practical ways of doing it so we'll talk about like how can we practically
build these dreamy solar punk aesthetic in india uh so guido maybe i'll let you talk and then
eventually we can have a small introduction from dustin uh yes uh i just want to share that last time
last episode we did with you and that was amazing and so we decided to do it another one and uh last
time we we discussed a bit more about the past of the tradition or the heritage of indian culture
and what is somehow aligned with the solar punk vision today we will focus more on the few on the
future and also on the present i really would love to touch on some some uh actually very solar
punk project in india so i have a few and uh but also i know that uh a lot of knowledge about that
and uh yeah i just want to share that i'm very happy to be here and uh this is the kind of space
i really enjoy doing and i see a lot of familiar places here with us so i'm so happy for that
and uh yeah that dustin the mic is here if you want to introduce yourself and share a little bit
about you and then we can jam well i think um i was already a little bit uh introduced by atlantis
um but um of course yeah so um if i what would interest me about this uh project is of course my
solar punk background as an artist and me being involved for quite some time and um creating
narratives and scenarios about a more positive uh future uh hopefully a carbon negative future
uh but as well um what perhaps not everybody of the listeners know about me is that i'm also
involved in uh in water activities back from where i live i'm uh as an engineer and educator involved in
uh all sorts of drink water drinking water uh projects so my technical expertise is uh also very
well um developed in this um type of niche so um i think it would be interesting to um connect with
uh the uh the local indian knowledge and traditional knowledge about water conservation which will be
uh extremely important um for india and combine it with the more traditional western views and
uh scientific uh scientific visions so this is also uh a part of me that that is interested in what
uh what we hopefully will explore uh in the next episodes in today
is uh is uh anyone talking or are you speaking with your mute i i think everyone for the first five
seconds is like suspecting did they just get drugged uh is it everybody i think uh we could uh touch upon
like uh what is currently happening like we said in the previous episode the conversation was more
about like um what are the traces across india for uh uh solar punk aesthetics that already existed so
a lot of conversation was around the heritage but today we'll try to like have some of the conversation
around what are the future uh potential and is there any current uh projects that's going on that
that potentially has exhibits these solar punk characteristics um so when we say solar punk so much
also for folks who are probably not really familiar with the word uh what we're looking at is like an
um what do i say it's it's it's it's not entirely an art moment it is some way also uh a way for us to
think about how the future cities and future worlds that we live in will look like and one of the biggest
challenges that we have is in in pursuit of progress humanity has been really throwing the nature of its
balance and with solar punk the vision is how can we bring back this balance which means uh imagine
less mega structures like big dams i think smaller dams like micro dams think more uh distributed
uh life support systems whether it is for our food whether it is for our electricity whether it's for our
water um how do we build these uh decentralized smaller forms of uh technology uh so a big big
proponent of solar punk future is where we look at low carbon technology that means uh we are looking
at how can we produce the same kind of technology without having to have a huge material cost attached
to it um so this is the pursuit today so initially we'll speak about uh different kind of inspirations
we see around our city that could be a solar punk aesthetics and i have one particularly in my mind
because we have had a lot of interaction with this particular space it's in bangalore it's called
the bangalore creative circus the uniqueness of this is that this it's a cafe it's a co-working space
you can host events there uh but the unique thing about this is that it's a factory that was redone
and redone entirely using used material and there are a lot of interesting crafts a lot of artists who
have come and made craft out of used metal used glass a lot of used material so this entire space this
bangalore creative circus it's a perfect example of how you can beautify a space with even used material
um uh this is one of the biggest inspiration for me but i'll also let uh earth-based soul and dustin
maybe talk about any inspiration they have or what they have come across especially in india
uh yes i i go first uh talking about the bangalore creative circus i must say that seeing it from
outside because i didn't visit it yet it looks really uh solar punk to me because it's uh first of all
it's a community center and uh then it's also very artistic so and as you said it's built with uh uh upcycling
a lot of material there is a lot of cultural activities going on there and i follow them on
instagram and i see that they do every day they do activities on art music and they do also produce
food and they teach people how to produce food so they have some hydroponics going on there and they're
also very open to uh many um activities from outside and uh we run there the uh how do you say a
workshop about envisioning um the design of uh our electric tuk-tuk so we have this is a project that we are
running between solopon nomads our project and atlantis now and we run their a workshop i can see
marco here that he ran the workshop together with irko maybe you want to come jump on stage and tell
a little bit about that but uh yeah this is definitely an example on how some place can be
solarpunk without defining itself like solarpunk and uh because we all we have to remember that
uh uh solarpunk is a new thing it's a new term and uh it's been around for i think less than 15
years maybe that can correct me and uh but this uh vibe but this uh positive attitude towards the
future is present in many countries where maybe they never heard about solarpunk even the concept of
solarpunk ninja is very new and uh we are trying also to help to make it more known and uh but yeah
there could be many solarpunk places that they don't define themselves as solarpunk but in reality they are
so yeah so i agree with you that's a good choice the bungalow creative circus and uh yeah i don't know
dustin if you want to add something or you have something in mind that uh looks very solarpunk to
you uh well mike is yours well i i um could uh add something for this bungalow creative circus actually
in this concept we have in the past i have been working on similar scenarios and this is indeed quite
solar punk the point is um some futuristic scenarios is are based on uh community building
so this comes for from the idea that a more centralized government that steers um the decision
making process from a central mostly capital with large organizations who decide what you need to do and
and it goes like a waterfall to uh the municipalities and to the other regions and they uh yeah then
follow the the instructions or centralized large corporations who uh decide um and have the power
about how we produce things and how we get things and manufacture things and distribute things and that's
a very centralized approach and in solar punk visions we tend to move towards a more decentralized approach
where we have um more communities who take over the power on of production and it's not only food
production but perhaps also um trying to maximize uh production of furniture uh i heard tuk-tuk uh bicycles
uh so means of transport uh houses and a good uh starting point here is a community
to do this so that's actually we're talking about a group of people who could um do this on their own
and build businesses around it even small local economies uh and um one of the ideas that uh i and others
have been working on is built those communities around uh a mutual interests mutual um types of hobbies or
things that um people are passionate about because this naturally convert converses people to to come
together uh even already now uh these already in the present day to practice a hobby or or something and
people are already are already very passionate uh to to invest a lot of time in uh their hobbies and
in their passion and uh in a natural way it already forms communities like a circus it could be a sports
it could be some kind of scientific hobby and doing research about things it could be um
um yeah interested in creative other creative uh things and once you have uh this group and this group
uh does of course what they do their passion uh they could start to um invest as well in in uh housing or
they could after a while decide to do some agriculture themselves and after a while some sort of community
ecosystem exists and you get a small um society local organized society and this model uh was actually a model
that could uh bootstrap a new type of uh decentralized uh economy of small communities that converge around
uh and mutual uh and mutual shared interests and that could from within the network empower themselves
uh so i think this could be a good initial starting point um to empower such such communities and highlight
uh how they could even uh scale up and become more than what they actually perhaps think they already are so it
could it could it could become a model for other uh communities to um to become less dependent on
more centralized larger systems so that's something that i wanted to share i hope it was a little bit
clear for uh for everybody yeah uh totally and uh yeah i want also to add something that uh sometimes we
uh as solar punks i mean uh we look much into the future so there is so much uh futurism in
solar punk but uh we also have to see what's happening and now and there are uh since in solar bank sustainability is
uh very at the center of the let's say of the let's say of the genre or the of this culture uh there are
some not some as i would say many examples of more sustainable lifestyle in emerging countries like
need in like india in comparison to places like europe or united states where much of the solar
punk contents are coming and for example i was fascinated by the child that he was telling me
about his family about his parents house how they are really uh self-sufficient for many things and
how they build it all by themselves and i really would love to know more about that so yet if you don't
share if you don't mind about sharing a bit about the story of your family and about how they are
solar punk in a way i would love to listen to it
yeah i think for my parents what uh they were definitely not after this idea of solar punk
to be more precise it was there's a very popular uh french architect in uh kerala who who came to kerala
and started living there and started uh really popularizing this idea of low carbon uh architecture
this meant uh in india today now most of the modern uh houses are built using a lot of concrete uh where
he says that instead of that you could use something called interlocking uh mud blocks and one of the
huge advantages of these mud blocks is yes your uh overall carbon footprint of building a house
is less because you're not you're using these mud blocks instead of uh using concrete over it um i
personally what i've experienced is the just the ambient temperature inside the house always used to
be lower than what used to be outside so these are like um these are like designs where you know you're
actually what you're using in build material has a big difference in the kind of uh temperature you
can have within your house because typically we go for concrete and once you have concrete you need to
have air conditioning inside the house uh this is a way of naturally cooling it uh other than this
another thing that they did was uh we harvest a lot of rain water uh which again because of the region
we are in uh we get a lot of rain so uh that was something that was a no-brainer and apart from this
another key thing that they do is they have they have the little space for kitchen garden so the idea
for kitchen gardens that you grow spices that you regularly use and then the big advantage for you
is that it is chemical free and you can just go while you're making whatever your favorite dishes just go
and rent your porch and pluck out these spices uh these are a few things that i saw in like
naturally there are way more things that you can do like recently my father's been exploring how he
can start composting the waste that he has uh which again means a huge reduction in footprint
so for me this is what solar punk is like we are doing these small small adjustments and we are
dramatically reducing a lot of our own footprint but are we sacrificing life
experiences not really uh so that's a beautiful balance
yeah beautiful beautiful uh yeah i
maybe kieran you have your hand raised
did i okay i i didn't i didn't have my hand raised okay so i just imagine maybe i want to
uh to bring to the stage also a project that i never visited because again i've never been to
india only once in an airport and it doesn't count but uh i've seen many interesting things happening in
uh in india and i would like to tell you about the project a very special project that looks very
solapunk to me and it's very um it's a school uh very peculiar the way it was built it and it's called
the i i will make the name wrong probably but it's called rajikumari ratnavati girl school
and it's located in the desert in the tar desert of rajasthan and uh what makes it very solapunk is that
uh well first of all it's futuristic because it's a new way of building things starting from the
shape because it is it's a shape like uh three concentric oval and uh so the shape is striking
and uh it has been builded uh as uh the first building of a project that is called the giant center
so they will build also uh a performance and an art exhibition space and also like a woman cooperative
school but now the the first building uh it's a school and it's radioactive for about 400 girls
from kindergarten to class 10 and um it's amazing because it's been built with local material so with uh
what they call sandstone and the the architect uh it's not local but the the people who build it
it were all local so they use hand carved bricks made of sandstone so work locally and this way they also
uh guaranteed uh guaranteed a low carbon uh consumption let's say in the building and uh it's uh since it's been
built in a very hot place uh actually it's in a desert but the way it was built uh guarantee a certain
cooling so the shape itself guarantees some natural airflow in the building and also it's been they use the
technique uh very uh known in india that it's called jalis so it's uh like making perforated uh walls uh
with their intricate pattern but this way of doing things called jalis or jalisa and i don't really know
the accent where it is but it helps natural air circulation so it helps to cool the the whole place
and the plus it looks very solar panel so because they added on the on this open roof that is oval in
shape they added solar panel because solar panel very helps to put some uh air conditioning that uh
it's powered by uh renewable energy so i love and i say this one of the projects that really strike me
looking for uh uh solar bank project in india and i can wait to visit it and uh there are many others
but uh i wanted to bring this one uh to the stage and i don't know uh i passed the mic to
ear to or dustin who want to go on
yeah uh like for me one big concern in this though definitely is like uh when we're looking at like
redesigning cities uh especially at like uh infrastructure level whether that's like
redoing houses or redoing these big structures um uh growingly policies is becoming a big challenge
so i actually wanted to know uh from dustin because uh even uh earth based on you brought this up like
it's it's uh we are starting to see a lot of these designs in emerging markets where policies are more
lenient um how do you see these kind of things uh coming up in let's say in parts of europe where
like the regulation and getting uh the permits for constructing a unique styled property uh is it easy
like what's preventing people from being self-sustainable uh any parallels that you can draw
uh dustin this is towards you and uh earth based if you feel free you could just jump and give your
thoughts well yeah actually that is um difficult um i think um again if you have a very centralized um
way of governing things um there are rules that you need to obey and what you see in europe
especially when it comes to building those rules um are are uh applied and everybody needs to to follow
them but it makes it difficult to um to for instance do whatever you you want you need to um
and you need to be sure that that you're in and um that you will follow all the the government
governmental rules that they apply on building uh things and same uh goes up for um construction or of
vehicles or uh other other product products from one point of view this is understandable uh it has to do
with safety matters it has to do with um protecting people against uh floods um it has to do about with
fires and making sure that the fire department could could um could help when there's a an unexpected fire
so it's understandable that uh rules are applied but there's also another aspect of it what what you often see
is um when um communities that uh want to do it differently and that also means try to um create
different forms of architecture or experiment with it and become off-grid as long as they
are no threats for um or society within a threat i mean as long as they are not powerful not attracting many other
people to go there and to become completely self-reliant uh and promote this this new model of of living
then they are left alone because who will bother about some uh some some group that are living in the
desert or at some very off-grid uh in some very off-grid region um let's say nobody cares about it and
especially not the government or other powers but the moment when something becomes bigger what you
normally see is that that the same um legislation and the machine behind it um also tries to get a
grip on this on uh on what's happening there by um applying some regulation on them as well so you need to
you need to be uh you need to be part of the grids of the electrical grids you need to be part you need
to have this and this and this form formula uh form to um to be uh to to to to be okay with the the local
legislation if you if you can't um show the the the governmental bodies that you're uh in accordance with with
uh their laws then they have legal uh legal ways to shut you down and this is actually what what
has happened has been happening in um off-grid communities that grew bigger uh they used the same
tools to shut them down and so it has it's it's it's double-sided it can be used as a weapon against
off-grid communities and of course it has some um advantages as well so um what i think is that in an
in a nearby future um because uh perhaps more centralized powers will have less interest or less
power to to control everything or every region of their country that there will become more
opportunities to uh recreate new forms of legislation or local uh rules to to to do building and
construction works so we could perhaps then there will become will become opportunities to uh to do it
differently but nowadays it's it's it's quite difficult like uh if you even would see the tiny house
movement i think everybody is familiar with it here in belgium this is um a very very difficult thing
to get off the ground because there's too much legislation and they make it virtually impossible for
anybody for somebody for anybody who wants to do something with it so imagine that you're a young
person with limited uh financial resources but with a good two hands with two hands and good ideas and
uh technical uh skills and a good vision about the future well you won't won't get far because the
legislation makes it very difficult for you to to um build up something so what i see here in europe
that what's happening is always the same they go to places uh remote places like in portugal portugal or in
uh spain places where nobody actually wants to live and then they do their thing over there
till the point that it could become too big and then it stops
so um yeah the truth is uh ugly uh like so while listening to you like the the thought that came to my
head is isn't then like a solar punk future quite provocative uh also at scale we would be decoupling
from the central grid which means whether it's in an emerging market or uh a developing developed
nation the de facto response to that is to clamp it down like you said like any off-grid community like
we were probably going to talk about audible today here uh it's facing its own challenges now um any
thoughts on that like is this like uh something that is being done by governments or is it something
that like inherently at scale there is a possibility for it to self-implode because you're just so
disconnected and totally reliant on the local dynamics uh any thoughts on that earth space maybe you
could go first and then trust them uh yes i think that uh well first of all i totally agree with dustin
and uh i'm from italy and we are uh our country it's famous for is very uh rigid bureaucracy and so you
can't really do things and uh since one of the uh important um aspect of being solar punk is uh doing
yourself or building yourself or building yourself things and trying also to uh do upcycling with
material and uh trying to be autonomous from uh the central government and this is the punk side of
solar punk uh in italy is quite difficult you can't even have a domicile uh if uh you are not connected
with the water system of a of a of a town so very difficult but i think we are at an inflection point
because i see uh central government becoming weaker and uh they're all very not all but many are
really uh heavy with uh big debt and uh i think that uh we are probably in the worst part of this
evolution and uh very soon as dustin was saying the government will release a little bit the whole
than that there would be more space interesting enough what we are doing with our project solar
punk nomads it allows you a certain degree of movement uh and white movement because you're a
nomad but also movement because you can do things more easy if you would decide to live in a van
uh you can move and you can be really not uh so strictly regulated by local government so one of the
reasons why we developed this project is also that uh it helps you to be more free and it uh
increases your uh resilience your climate change resilience but your resilience in general so not
being subjected to a specific local government uh it really allows you to do things that you cannot do
uh if you're a resident and uh yeah but i think that i'm uh let's say optimistic uh on the future of
these and i see many people uh really refusing to go into the rat race of uh just uh being an employee and
uh working uh so much and uh uh investing all the money in the house that uh so many many people
especially young generation are understanding that there are other ways to do that and maybe it doesn't
look like uh at the moment but i can tell you that a lot of people are thinking about that they are
starting to organize that and uh so i'm pretty positive and uh for the future and i think that we will see
a good part of this new movement uh coming from uh the uh emerging countries where rules are not so yet
so yet so stiff so strong like in other countries like in europe and the united states so i'm pretty
an enthusiast about uh introducing more this concept of solo punk in emerging countries and uh yeah and uh
yeah i give you back the mic and daphne if you want to add something on that
yeah well um perhaps something that i could add to this i think um the illusion of starting a community and
that becomes self-sufficient and from there on uh grow bigger and bigger and bigger is uh it's just an
illusion that that i don't believe that that will happen uh because of the the reasons that we already
discussed uh just um um and in the end some moments ago but what i think that uh could happen is uh
uh one there are uh the trends that you see is that many things are pushing people to to do the things
that we all also support so becoming more uh become using much more um renewable forms of energy is
something that governments are also pushing so they actually pushing people to become more self-reliant
uh in cities they need to green the cities because they want to attract more people and they want to
become more carbon neutral and they need to make the cities livable and they need to store carbon they
need to create shade so um there are aspects so it's a small step to go from trees to food producing trees and
and and uh and other plants that uh that produce berries and that to create a step to towards permaculture
vision so governments are pushing people in that direction um at the same time yeah capitalism is
is already falling apart it's already something new it's not the the old capitalism from the 90s anymore
uh it's more it's more it has become more brutal so um a logical trend will be that people are uh
will become falling crisis after crisis so it's also logical that people will feel much more attracted
because of the failure of capitalism to do things more on a local level and you can see this in many
cities like car sharing services like tools sharing services this is not something that's happening
only in one place it's happening everywhere and there's a strong demand to um restore communities as well
so there are all kinds of uh trends that are pushing people towards uh um ideas that are very in line with
solar punk visions but at the same time you have this uh governmental claw and i would say for a corporate
cloud who wants to um who keeps control of everything who sees every single person as a consumer and
wants people to um be uh connected to the grid and wants to sell energy from big energy companies who
uh use oil and all all the the stories that you already know and this immense force uh is still present and will be present for
for a while but what i think is uh the more we uh make the narrative more clear the more you could in a city uh on a city level prepare cities and prepare communities
uh to become some some sort of some sort of lightweight version of uh what once could become a solar
pump future that's grounded and formed around uh communities that will form networks and so the power
lays within the network not within a single community or a group of single of individuals that form
a group because becoming self-reliant is not the key here it's creating uh strong resilient networks of many people
together and uh as long as you have this um narrative and this uh over uh overall story that um
is in line with the many smaller narratives in mind as long as you have this in mind we could work towards
um the few to to towards more plausible uh solar pump futures already by preparing it and um
i think the the the moment will definitely come because um control will be more much more difficult uh
it will be much more difficult to keep control everywhere and because these trends are pushing uh
everybody towards uh the solutions the only frustrating thing is when and the only frustrating thing is that
there will be still repression and suppression uh but it doesn't mean that we could uh wherever we live
try to prepare uh strong resilient communities already with some degree of uh self-sufficiency and with some
some degree of local production and uh when it's ready it's about um connecting the the the dots and
connecting the connecting communities with each other and that is also something why i love
these kind of initiatives and these talks because it combines uh different people who are apart from
different communities but we will we are working together with many others on uh the same narrative
and this is already a digital network a digital connection and uh i think this is this will be important in a nearby future
yeah and uh you you touch on a very important uh point this this tension uh between uh control and uh the
say the and the will of local community to get organized to be more self-sufficient and try to
uh detach a bit from this control and uh there is a good example and i'll be here to want to talk a little
bit about that in india or the place that it also looks very slapang the neko village probably the biggest of
the world and they have amazing uh architectural features and uh have been around for many many years and uh
it's a point of attraction you're talking about uh yeah totally and uh i think it's a good example of
this tension within the need the the will of local community to get more autonomous to do things in a
different way to be more self-reliant from the control of the government and on the other side that the uh
will of the government to control it so i know that there is an institutional clash there pretty
intense uh can you tell a little bit about our will uh are you familiar with the place have you been
there yeah there are multiple people on this call who have gone for sure i personally haven't visited
uh but uh i've heard a lot a lot firsthand experience uh but in terms of even like the problems that are
there like i'd only give you a surface level knowledge on it uh but nevertheless that in itself
is enough to provide some context uh so the thing is that like orville's directly um reports to the
central government so they already are kind of decoupled from the state government which means if
orville has a problem the state government doesn't get involved in helping them which is uh it's pretty handy
it's it's definitely something like a handicap and uh next thing that happened was uh there was
definitely orville was uh co-created with a lot of uh expats from outside india and uh their friction
with the locals uh and uh also the governing principles changed over time what was uh the manifesto that
started or will uh started modifying uh people within started creating camps where their interpretation
of the manifesto was different uh for me these are all like great learnings especially when
we all are in this space where there's like a lot of conversation about dows and decentralized organizations
and going off grid uh uh it's it's a significant challenge and where like um i realized that uh at some
point there is a lot of lot of work that needs to be done at a policy level uh which means we will need
uh solar punk reformers and lobbyists uh along with us who can uh help also open conversations because
there's a trend here that you can see in a lot of um rigid structured governance what we see in europe
uh it's very challenging to transition which means like to have extremely dynamic climate uh the ability
to adapt is very hard and what we see is that in maybe in india's context india is a huge country
governing it is really hard so there is a lot of local governance that is able to leverage local context
so their adaptability is more so in terms of uh structures and governance structures these are
factors nevertheless and i i do not see just like dustin says i agree i do not see off grid communities
going in scale unless they address the problem of regulation and how they can work with local governments
uh but this is where i think like what earth-based you said like you know it's just a matter of time
before these inefficiencies force people to think at them in a distributed manner
yeah because uh from my experience uh somehow when you want to build something a local level that it
doesn't really uh inflate the economy uh you have the local government against you uh so for example if you want to
do community garden or uh free or charge for people surely at least in my country the local government will be
against you because somehow they say that you are um i say you are you are spoiling the economy so you are
preventing people to go to the supermarket and buy the records and so it's bad for the local economy
uh so yes uh i think there will be a very interesting uh near future where all this tension will manifest and
uh i really would love to i i think one of the central points for a uh a positive transition would be
to show example uh not only at community level i know that's one of this uh the center point of
solopankis community but i think that at least in my country this family unit is still the most important
global of our society so i really look forward to see local example of uh very sustainable and uh
more self-built houses or uh more housing units and it's difficult i know that local government doesn't
really support you on that or goes against that but i think that people they they don't understand they
don't even know that you can uh be self-sufficient and uh and you can uh have a different way of
building a house and organizing your life so i i think that uh adding more example like this at local
level would be very important to speed up the transition to a more sustainable society now the question is if
we will have time for that and uh in which condition we will have to do this transition anyway uh maybe
kiran would you like to open the floor for questions yeah definitely uh before we open the floor i just
want to add something that i came across today like since uh discussion about how uh you know solopunk india
um you know this concept of building solopunk spaces around our country and something that i came across
today was uh how uh in hyderabad uh they have built india's first uh uh solar cycling track which is the
world's only second such of a track that is available and this is a big significant improvement on
the kind of urban planning that we have seen around indian cities it's a new concept for us indians
as well but the fact that they were able to implement this over a stretch of uh let's say i think so it's
around like seven to eight kilometers of a highway and the fact that they're making such kind of progress
it's a very positive sign so hopefully like more more cities and uh you know more uh city planners will
actually adopt these kind of uh building structures and it's it's encouraging to see that we're moving
in that direction so yeah just wanted to add that before i open the floor up uh so uh everyone who's
here on the atlantis climate radio before we close out the space we would like to give you a chance to
come up on stage and share some thoughts on what you have seen around india what kind of solar
spaces are available if you feel like something that can be done differently uh please feel free to
share your thoughts we are opening up the floor right now so in case any of you want to join us
just uh ping us send a request to as a speaker and we'll add you we'll give you like a couple of
yeah go for it yeah meanwhile i just wanted to share something that uh it always uh surprise me is the
scale of the scale of your country i'm not used to this kind of scales and uh doing some research for
this uh space in general for the potential of solopunk in india i found some incredible data about the
transition to for example to electric mobility and uh talking about electric scooter there is the system
there is uh looks amazing to me that is a a network of uh places where you can swap your batteries and
so keep going and so already it's very futuristic for me but the numbers are just astonishing i read that
may this year so a few months ago they sold in one month one one hundred thousand electric scooter with
more powerful batteries so did i mention the scale is really astonishing and we see that um we are
already in this transition to a more sustainable society uh in some countries more than the others
and uh yeah these are not uh maybe very solopunk uh scooter because they're not self-built in our
imagination of the society it's much is done by the society but still uh electric mobility is good and
in itself it's solopunk to me so i just wanted to share this because the number really i had to read it
two or three times to be sure that they were the right number so i was just i wanted to share this
yeah when you when you talk about the scale it's it's huge uh i mean i i agree uh to that like uh just
recently i was uh you know i went down to a university here and it was just crazy at the amount of uh
potential that we have in the youth over here and uh to see that they're growing up in spaces where
uh uh you know something that is a trend in bangalore that i've noticed also as a big larger
universities that open up they go to the outskirts of the city and build their universities in this
massive uh area and something that encouraged me was that the involvement of building around nature
is something that i've seen almost in every of these universities that have visited around bangalore
and it's crazy it's uh it's really inspiring to see that the kids also are growing up in that
mentality where you know we don't just need uh concrete jungles anymore we need to be one with
the nature as well so it's it's a positive feeling and uh yeah like you said uh it'll all come down to
how we can you know uh channel all of this uh uh scale scalable you know the community that is
available at our expense and just channel it towards the kind of impact that we want to bring on ground
but yeah i i agree to that the scale is insane
yeah maybe uh we we can touch since i don't see people coming to the stage maybe just to close the
space i we can touch a little bit on uh a project of atlantis that is a solopank art exhibition and uh
we still have to go into details of it maybe so you can share something and uh we can talk about that
with dustin also uh just maybe it's the right moment to to jam a bit on this concept and uh how you have
been financed for that what are your expectations and what we can do for that i think we'll be interested
to share with our our audience yeah so uh just to give some context to everyone uh we will be hosting
a solar punk art exhibition and this is something that we are doing in collaboration with all for
kirkland uh they will be uh funding the winners of this exhibition so the idea is to bring together
a few artists from india uh have them interpret their version of solar punk india and eventually
have an exhibition around it and we are hoping that we have dustin's uh help in doing this uh i think
the young artists that we probably put together would definitely need some mentoring so uh i i don't
know if earthbase wanted to put you in a spot dustin but what do you think about the exhibition being part
of it uh well i'm very excited to be part of this exhibition of course and it would be lovely i i of course
have made many art works that are much more focused on western europe um because this is of course the
local region that i'm most familiar with but i think we could work out solar punk scenarios for india as
well and one thing that i actually forgot forgot to mention but the thing that interests me about india as
well as the jugat uh that's well known i think for all of you um it's it is something very interesting
because this indeed like we mentioned before has many uh solar pump elements but what is interesting
here is that in art and by storytelling we could show um different aspects because if you would look like
for instance if you would say uh jagat and in in terms of um means of transport tuk-tuks and other
vehicles that local indian people uh um adapt and and change with their imagination so they could use it
uh by by placing solar panels on it or using a motor on and placing it on a bike whatever they are very
inventive the people out there um but if you look at it um and you compare it with the normal uh
industry industry that uh produces bicycles motorcycles and and have a more common economic interests
they often use large factories uh to produce their their their things and they have their distribution
networks they have their shops and people normally go there to uh buy their their things and you're
again very dependent on large centralized structures that create for us the the products that we use in
the daily need and a daily base and um and what's important here is you're so you have become so
dependent and you you have it's become it has become so natural that you buy the things like you're familiar
with from since when you were a kid but if you look at at then the jagat movement where people are inventive uh
on a daily base and create the most real realest things then you see okay uh regular people with some technical
skills can do the same but the problem here is the moment you would say yeah let's let's do this jagat
uh and use it within a solar pump community you end up with um some problem for some problems like um
you need some uh unified designs designs that that can be replicated on in different regions you need manuals you
need um materials that uh are easy to um to be to get wherever you live not something that can only be used
in that particular region no uh materials that are uh that you can find easily as scrap or uh unused materials that
you can find in scrap yards and creating such models and showing people look uh we have this type of bicycle
where we have plenty of of uh unused uh uh secondhand bicycles that we could change by using this and this uh part and we could create i don't know an electric uh bicycle by combining these kind of uh components that you could derive from the good practices in the jagat
uh movement uh movement by doing so you could show people uh that you could replicate uh bootstrap
scale up uh a decentralized way of production and i think this is what actually a little bit
needed and it can can be shown because it already could um create opportunities even in our current economic model
but it already creates uh the first step to a more decentralized and better organized uh informal
production um in the industry with smaller workshops that don't need the large infrastructure and large
amounts of finance that a classical uh capitalistic society needs because that is one of the techniques
that is used by scaling and scaling it up and and mass production and such a way and by making it all
automated uh it becomes very difficult to compete with it but uh the jagat movement shows that by using clever
tricks you could decentralize it and i think uh by using solar new solar punk narratives and showing
art uh with art with art to people how it could be you could show them yeah we have other weapons
to become as efficient uh in another way and i think this is this is these are interesting things to to think
about it in this way we could apply this to housing we could apply this to uh other amenities like uh water
electricity uh people are have have found the solutions but the point is how could how can we show it how
how we could organize it better and uh make it more scalable and make it more a model that can be upscaled and
used in other places again and again and how can we open source it and i think these are steps that we could focus on and
india is a an ideal place because there's so much creativity out there so much much traditional knowledge
vernaculars um so yeah i'm excited to to help with with that sorry because we were over time now but okay
no i think uh it's beautiful to see the passion flow and uh yeah this is a very promising uh concept uh
especially when all for climate uh came up with this idea of having this uh art exhibition uh we were like
the possibility of all the kind of inspiring things that we'll get to see with an initiative like this
uh i think it's it's really exciting um lots in store around this
great thank you for sharing that last bit uh dustin like the fact that you uh researched and learned
about the word jugad itself speaks volumes and uh it's something that we i think he got a crash course
last last the last part one of this discussion i think uh it's something that we're doing yeah
i think earth-based uh i had a lot to speak about it as well uh yeah he found it fascinating as well
oh i'm i'm i'm totally fascinated by your country and uh um it's been a little bit more than a year that
uh uh we work together and uh so the more i know about indian culture and uh the more i'm interested
to know more so i'm so happy to be here and also i'm really excited about this exhibition i hope that
i can help you to facilitate this process because uh i've been uh uh very happy of the workshop that you
did for the solar punk uh tuk tuk and i think there is a big potential to particularly to involve young
people younger generation and maybe under the guide of dustin and to have some cultural exchange and then
a guided process uh to to make a new artwork to help uh these young generation to have a positive vision
of the future because uh this is the main message one of the main message of solar punk it is so much
needed now we need the positive vision we need to give hope specifically to the younger generation so
um yeah i'm totally excited about that and let's meet and go for it
just checking if any of our audience members have any questions before i close out the space
if there are no raised hands or any requests coming in the next two to three seconds i think we are good to
uh end the space uh once again i just want to uh thank uh dustin guido and ritu for you know having
this immersive conversation about solar punk india and thank you so much for educating and informing the
rest of us on what to look out for and what's new in the space and uh you know how can each of us uh
collaborate and be a part of uh you know promoting this moment as much as possible in the subcontinent
environment and uh at the atlantis climate radio something that we keep on focusing about is the
fact that uh how can we build climate resilience uh for the next generation and uh for ourselves as
well and i think this is a very important conversation on those lines and i would love to share my
appreciation to all the uh you know audience members also for tuning into this conversation thank you for
your support because uh yeah even if we don't have a large room of folks we we appreciate whoever
turns up and we know that you know these conversations are really uh more of a podcast version for us right
now because we want to bring in more uh change makers onto the space and uh share uh do as much as uh
knowledge uh transfer as possible with each other and uh thank you so much for that so without taking any
more of your time uh thank you for joining into uh today's uh atlantis climate radio uh good night
good morning to wherever you are tuning in from thank you so much for joining in see you then next week
take care
thank you so much bye bye thank you thank you inviting me thank you so much thank you
thank you
