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Spill The Alpha #17: Trading & How To Build A Terminal w/ @DenisCJN
Recorded: Aug. 7, 2025 Duration: 1:13:48Space Recording
Short Summary
In a lively discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the evolving landscape of trading, emphasizing the importance of risk management, the benefits of partnerships like Kuma's offering 50x leverage, and the trend towards securing profits through strategic cashing out. The conversation also highlighted the shift in trader mentality towards long-term growth and stability.
Full Transcription
Thank you. you hey what's up guys hello hello hey what's up dennis
nothing much just waiting for the uh show to start really excited thanks for the invite and
you know appreciate everybody joining yeah my pleasure man happy to have you on. I think it's going to be a fun one. I think it's going to be a good
casual one.
I was kind of
shocked by how many...
I didn't expect there
to be that many
terminal employees that all
just rushed into the post and started
shitposting on there. I was like, holy shit,
where's the terminal tag?
Yeah, well, you know, they're used to listening to me every week on our calls and um yeah i'm also pretty impressed i'm not really sure why
are they here on the spaces and not working but you know we're just gonna chat afterwards
yeah maybe if they would be working we would have white mode finally oh come on man it's like it's uh under the bed so it's like i got it i remember
i uh i used like some defy protocol a couple of weeks ago and uh and they were just only in dark
mode like there is no light mode and i was like what the is because i
use light mode and everything i'm not like a vampire you know like i have this like uh
it's like set up automatically you know like when the sun goes down my pc changes to like dark mode
um though uh sorry to budget but there's like a really good explanation for why the white mode
is temporarily not available um we've done i'm sure can see, the full UI has been completely changed.
It's no longer the same old UI.
So we kind of done a really big under the hood upgrade.
We can change the framework version.
So a lot of it has been rewritten. And it's been a really lengthy process
trying to get a new version out.
And I just kind of beat the bullet
and just wanted to release it.
Because you want to develop new features,
and you have the question, should I add it to the old version
or just a new version that's slightly incompatible
with the old one?
Should I write the same feature twice
until everything's perfectly nice? So I was like, i know i'm gonna get for it but you know kudos
it's not like it's a big deal or something it's just that i don't know maybe it's
something like that but i can't see because like i have i have like big windows in my office and
like you know unless i close close the curtains or something,
I just can't see shit if everything is in dark mode.
It's just frustrating.
Just invert your colors on your computer, man.
No, I'm just old, man.
I'm old.
I'm like all of you guys are like 20 years old.
I'm like, dude, I'm old.
I barely have any vision left at this point.
It doesn't sound that old.
What?
You don't sound that old, to be honest.
I'm sorry to say, I've never tuned in on any of your podcasts.
I don't really understand.
No, I'm not.
I'm not exactly sure what's going on.
It's fine.
I'm not.
I'm going to be 30 this year.
Well, you're not even that old.
But I feel like I'm older.
So there's that.
Well, you know, I feel you. i'm roughly three years younger than you something like that and i also feel all this but yeah
crypto will do that to you oh yeah definitely um all right i want to do like the official intro we
can just jump right into uh all the topics and stuff that are listed for us.
But obviously, I want us to just go with the flow.
If we just want to jump around topics,
you can feel free to do that, and we will.
Well, first of all, I want to welcome everyone
to episode 17 of the second season of Spill the Alpha.
I'm sure that you guys will enjoy this episode
as much as I think I will.
We have Dennis here with us.
Dennis, huge thank you for coming and joining us.
Big pleasure.
I've known Dennis for something like two or three years now.
Basically, ever since Terminal became a thing,
and I followed all the big people that I've seen interacting with Ensilico.
And yeah, if you guys don't follow
Dennis, make sure to follow him just to see
good quality shitposting
and just occasional
interesting posts about coding
and stuff, which I report
those posts. I just report
and just bully him or something.
But his shitposting is really good.
So if you want another good shitposter on your
profile, on your timeline,
make sure to give Dennis a follow.
Yeah, I'm just ranting about all of the stuff that, you know,
comes across my desk.
I really like technology, but sometimes the way you have to write it,
it's just like, there's not even any good anecdotes.
Just like shooting yourself in the head constantly.
It's like, there's no perfect solutions solutions everybody thinks they oh writing software is like a
completely exact science yeah sure yeah sure it's it's never yeah yeah i've heard that a lot i've
heard that from a lot of people um well yeah i guess we can just jump right into everything i
just want to remind all of our listeners that on the bottom right corner there's a chat box icon both on mobile and on the web and you can click on it
at any moment and leave any questions you have and uh you know if you want to talk about something
just write it there if you have any you're not bullied dennis you can just bully him there as
well and we'll go over everything towards the end of the show um and before we jump into all the
questions and topics uh huge thank you to kuma
for making these spaces happen uh now live with up to 50x leverage you can trade there today you
can click on my profile there's a link in my bio that gives you 25 off of fees uh fully all the
repates go back to you guys and we're currently giving out over ten thousand dollars in rewards
every single week so if you want to take a piece of that pie, make sure to give it a test.
Well, Dennis, I want to first of all start with a little bit about your background,
because I don't know anything about you besides some things about your personal life
and all of our shitposting and stuff like that.
But how did you get into crypto and how did you get into Terminal?
Well, you know, great questions. I got into crypto somewhere around 2015, 2016. I was really young
back then. And the reason why I said I got into crypto at that age is because I got scammed,
obviously. My family got scammed on uh one coin i'm not sure
if you've ever heard of it oh yeah i've seen their european i lived like three streets away from their
offices yeah it became like a really interesting interesting thing like why is one coin uh you know
a scam obviously a ponzi or whatever what's the technical difference between, like, a proper blockchain
and a proper Ponzi, right?
So that question, when I was 15 or 16, kind of stuck into my head.
And in 2017, when I kind of finished high school,
just like the custom here in Romania, you kind of throw a party,
everybody gives you some money, and I was wondering what to do with it.
And I headed over to Coinmama.
There was a website where I bought my first Bitcoin.
And I started playing around with it for, you know, kind of understand, you know, how
it works, what is a blockchain and what everything is.
And I've been lurking on Twitter.
You know, that's when my account was made in 2017.
I've been lurking around and I kind of taken it a little bit more serious when I went to college.
I went to college to study business and economy in German, but it was like a random college year.
And I kind of dropped out after a semester because i kind of wanted to you know with
writing code and stuff like that because i was doing a lot of internships while i was in
high school so i kind of figured out that you know hey bitcoin is a technology it's it's code so we might as well learn how to code to kind of properly understand it so it kind of went
you know hand in hand uh uh this you know evolution process of uh how I understand blockchains and yada, yada, yada.
And I started writing some smart contracts.
I've written some smart contracts for...
Oh, so you studied Solidity and everything, yeah?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I have never launched any, but it's just purely research stuff
with a reffing engine and whatnot,
understand what gas prices are, how to kind of optimize them um i've never really launched anything but just like
purely uh you know research teaching moment and then i started trading obviously and uh
to learn the concepts what leverage is uh you know what the the Rackpool is. Obviously, felt that on my own skin more than a couple of times.
And yeah, as you know, any respectable trader,
I came back to Twitter, found a couple of people to follow,
you know, followed them right into the hole a couple of times.
And then I started the accumulating spot.
Obviously, I'm not this big brain perp trader or whatever.
I simply understand how markets work and, you know, how to write software for it.
But generally, I don't know exactly.
I'm not like an expert perp trader.
I've gotten lucky and, you know, obviously a couple of times on some spot plays, I am in that regard profitable.
So, yeah, that's how i got into crypto generally speaking but then once uh on my
twitter feed i kind of seen some posts from in silico uh the man the myth the legend was chatting
shit about it with jim and i was long eth obviously and they were thinking like hey check
this out how fun is how much is going to fall in the next whatever so i got them out of my lungs
and then i started following them and you
know a couple of weeks months later i've seen an ad that azzy put out that hey we're hiring
uh for this insane software that we're building and you know i just dmd azia with my cv with my
you know expertise and you know four years five years later here we are yeah that's sick
that's really awesome i i i don't think i've ever seen you um on twitter before you joined uh
terminal oh yeah it's only been after that yeah yeah definitely not definitely not because i i'm
you keep saying i post i i normal, but all my posts are shit.
So it's just like a funny coincidence, I guess.
It goes hand in hand.
I'm with you on that.
So, OK, so you mentioned that you're not, you know,
don't consider yourself the best perps trader.
Do you trade any perps nowadays or do you mostly focus on trading spot?
Yeah. Yeah, I do. do you trade any perps nowadays or do you mostly focus on trading spot and yeah okay uh yeah i do
i do trade uh perhaps uh generally obviously i i can say i trade like a huge amount of uh capital
uh somewhere around like five figures low five figures portfolio that's like my main base uh
portfolio that i trade uh the reason is like the way I see it, obviously every day for like 10 to 15
hours, obviously it's a bit stressful, but I spend most of my time in front of the terminal trying
to write, you know, the features, you know, analyzing and the charts are constantly in my
face, right? So if you're developing a feature and i i you know it so
happens that far coins is on my screen and i just remember oh wait weeks ago it was like extremely
high and i was just like extremely low you know it's kind of worth a pump something like that it
is not i don't have like this uh data warehouse where i analyze all of the possible moving
averages and all of these indicators of that stuff. And I just like pure vibe by trading.
It's not, I don't have a specific system.
Okay.
So you just basically, it's almost like, you know, after years of just watching the
charts in front of you, you just, you know, the moment you notice some type of pattern,
you just go for it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And funny enough, I found myself to be a lot luckier when I use less leverage,
mostly because you kind of don't get that intense drawdown.
You're extremely far from your liquidation.
So I can afford to be right.
I can afford to be wrong.
I don't think you're not constantly being stressed about like,
oh, is it going to fuck me over right now?
Is it going to, you know, you just throw it away.
Yeah.
I mean, it's a topic that comes up pretty often every time I speak to a trader
where, you know, leverage plays a key role in a trader's success.
And it's pretty crazy how different the viewpoints can be
because I can be talking to, you know, someone like,
I don't know, someone like myself, for example,
or who else, I don't know, Hart, for example,
who trades with similar leverage to mine where, you know,
2x is already levered up, right?
And like 3x is like the maximum leverage i will personally
use and then i'm talking to like one of my friends who i know you know has like you know an account
and he trades a little bit here and there and he's like oh i'm not i'm not like using a lot of
leverage because i'm i'm only up like 15x levered i'm like dude that's like that's like crazy
but that's because you know people look
as at it as a whole right they're like okay i have up to 100x leverage i'm using only 15 so that's
not a lot but that's not really how it works right i used to do that yeah start to bargain but i used
to that a lot like slightly leverage uh things the max. But I think that plays,
that happens mostly because when you start trading
or when you're like, don't really know what you're doing,
you have that impression that, you know,
this next trade is gonna, you know,
I'm gonna make it in the next trade.
Yeah, this is the one, this is the one that will change.
I only need one trade.
I only need one trade that's just gonna change my life.
And that's like complete bullshit. And it takes a while. You know, the mechanics of trading are not that complicated. It's really complicated to kind of convince yourself that, you know, you're here for the long haul. You're not going to get off the station on the next trade. You're either a trader or you're not. You're either going to be here for the next 5, 10, 15 years or you won't. That's how I see it. And what kind of made that
shift for me is like making a little bit of money on the side. I got a house, got a car, got a wife,
and I'm not really dependent on trading to kind of leave. And I think that makes things easier
because it's easier to detach from uh the drawdowns the swings the
you know the environment generally yeah because you don't care about the money you're not trying
to make money you just take the opportunities when they come and you know you're not stressed about
you know oh my god what if i lose all my money you don't have like cold feet you're okay with
taking a loss because you know taking that loss won't change your life yeah so yeah yeah yeah um it's
it having this leeway is massive it's it's such a big thing and it comes up so so often you know
whenever i talk to friends or to people who you know sometimes have a bad day or something like
that it's like it's just having the leeway just having enough space to allow yourself to do those
mistakes because those mistakes will happen.
It's like just statistically, even if you have like a 70% win rate,
you still have a very good likelihood to have like five or ten losers in a row.
And having a high leverage account will fuck you up.
Having a high leverage account will fuck you up.
Yeah, I think there's a lot of correlations between my day job as a software engineer and trading.
Because these drawdowns that you speak of, like in my career, I had many moments when I said like, you know, fuck it, I'm just going to quit.
I can't fucking deal with the stress because there's like a lot of you, you're working on a bug and you can't really fix it.
You want to fix it like right now, You know, the ideas simply don't come
and you just continue to stress over it.
It's like, oh, am I washed up?
Am I just like, is it over for me?
And stuff like that.
But it generally boils down to the mentality
and, you know, how you talk to yourself.
You should be your friend.
You shouldn't, you know,
shouldn't get yourself depressed
because like some things don't go your way.
Something like that.
I don't know.
You get the point. Yeah, yeah, 100%. self-depressed because like some things don't go your way something like that i don't know you get
the point yeah yeah 100 i mean there's definitely a correlation between like high stress jobs that
make you think and you know solve problem solving um that helps with markets 100 like putting aside
jobs like you know well not jobs but like putting aside things like playing poker professionally and things that you know have ev built into them um i feel like engineers are
probably really good at getting into markets and and stuff like that and you know people who write
code are pretty similar to engineers yeah i think so you mentioned poker do you play any poker
i pay but like just rookie poker you know i don't i don't follow the charts and so i
don't do the math oh yeah i mean yeah i just play poker for fun yeah same same same yeah it's uh
it's just something for me to to enjoy i like you know there is no like poker for me is negative
Poker for me is negative, EG.
Yeah, definitely.
So I want to talk a little bit more about your trading itself.
Yeah.
What do you feel were the most significant challenges and mistakes in your early days
of trading?
Was it just over leveraging or was there more to it?
I think over leveraging because I think that's the biggest hurdle people are going to face.
Obviously, it's just my experience.
Once we get over, because the reason why you over leverage is because you want to make most of your money and you think, oh, I'm just going to tax my portfolio.
Stuff's going to get better.
And if you over leverage, it means that you don't have the mental space properly to trade
yet. Kudos to the traders that use high leverage. I'm simply not at that level. I can't really time
the market like that because it's far more important that you stay alive in the market
rather than just, you know, quick in and out and just goodbye. Because the more time you spend
around charts, the more information you spend around charts the more information
you're going to get there the better you're going to get it's like simple logic and you know just
any hurdles i don't know man i think i think there still are there's like a lot of them that i'm
still simply not aware of them because again i i don't i don't do uh day trading, stuff like that. I don't watch the 15-second charts to kind of try and get...
Yeah.
Again, I'm just a pure vibe trader.
Most of my spot wins were mostly because I got in at the right time.
Like two years ago, I bought most of my spot packs,
and I kind of acquired some in the past 12 months.
But I simply stopped buying the market the entire
market went up so obviously i'm up i you know my target for bitcoin was 120k it kind of reached it
and now i'm still trying to figure out and now you're going to back hold it all the way back
yeah exactly i'm still trying to see how much uh should i take out take risk off i kind of started
taking some of the risk off you know which I
haven't done in previous cycles people keep talking that you know the four-year cycle is over
it could be over it could have drifted it could have changed a little bit but cycles are always
going to happen it's just like given nature in my opinion they're going to change they're going to
change a little bit but they're still going to be there. Yeah, 100%.
I mean, about what you mentioned with just having the time,
it's a massive realization.
I feel like every trader, the moment he realizes that,
it changes his point of view drastically.
Because I remember myself in the earlier days,
also having that cycle back in 2017.
And also it happened to me again in 2020 when I was like,
okay, this is it. This is the last cycle.
Bitcoin was trading at 40, 50K, 60K.
And I was like, nah, this is it.
This is the last bull run. There's no way it goes any higher like i have
to make it now i have to make hundreds of millions um but yeah the markets are here to stay and you
know they might go they will go up and down in the meanwhile but you know there's never a reason
literally there's never a reason to like over leverage because the moment you do that you're
you're no longer trading you're just gambling and there's a very big distinction between the two
in my opinion you know the price of an asset doesn't really matter in the long run if you're
a trader uh why do you care about what the price is right now you're gonna trade the same way whether
the price of bitcoin is 100k or 20k. It's about the movement.
It's not about the price.
Exactly.
It's about the volatility.
We're not here because crypto...
I mean, the traders among us are not here because crypto is the future
and we believe the president of the United States
will have a Bitcoin tattoo on his forehead or something.
It's just because it's volatile.
So it's much better to trade for people. If the asset moves 10%, I don't care if it's 100k or it's just because it's volatile so like you know it's much better to trade for people yes that
moves 10 i don't care if it's 100k or it's 10k it's still 10 it doesn't matter yeah yeah exactly
um well yeah i mean time is is of the essence as we have a lot of it so let's be patient. Stop over leveraging. I remember myself back in 2021,
where I think I was like,
I was net long, like 6X or some shit like that.
And I was like thinking, and this was at like 60K.
And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm good.
Like, there's no way something bad happens.
And like two weeks later i was broke i was like
dead broke dude i was like they're almost liquidated on every single penny i have um
so yeah let that happen that that happened to me in the ftx era uh i traded a lot on ftx and i
really like the ftxui and website and how they kind of structure stuff.
And they also used to kind of do these announcements that, hey, we're going to list that specific market at that specific time.
So one of my trading strategies back then was if you're like a little bit technical and they would give you what the asset was called. And I would simply go on FTX, choose any asset
and just go into the URL and type the new asset's name.
And just, you know, initially it's going to give you a 404 page
because it hasn't been listed yet.
But you keep refreshing and refreshing and refreshing and refreshing
until, you know, the market opens.
It used to open like 10 seconds before.
You see the form, just put in the amounts you want to trade.
Then as soon as the market opens by one minute later, It used to open like 10 seconds before you see the form, just put in the amounts you want to trade.
Then as soon as the market opens by one minute later,
you kind of sell it because that's the most of the movement,
like annual listings.
So FTX was like really good for that.
And I think it was broken.
It was that.
Yeah, go ahead.
It's shady.
What I remember, you know, when you mentioned over leveraging,
when the FTX era was, you know, on the precipice of their fame and whatnot, I also used over
leverage. And whenever I didn't even close positions, like I had unrealized PNL and I
would keep opening new positions on that unrealized PNL. And the market kept going up and up and up. And I was like, it was a lot of money back then was like up like 15, 20 K on like all
of my trades.
And all of a sudden over the weekend, the market crashed a little bit.
But when the markets crashed and you're like long on borrowed money, sort of like
unrealized P&L, as soon as the market goes down a little bit, your leverage, your
liquidation prices just skyrocket it's like
oh you think you're gonna be liquidated five percent lower ten percent lower well you know
it's not gonna be that because you had that cross margin stuff like all of these
coins i said were counted towards your margin just like me saying yeah i feel like in in the ftx era
not coin margin wasn't really so popular back then in any other exchanges.
And FTX, I feel like FTX almost kind of brought it back, right?
Nowadays, a lot of platforms offer it.
But back in the day, they were pretty much the first one to do that.
You know, in the, let's call it after Bitmex era you know when everything switched to um to
usdt based pairs for perps um and i feel like a lot of people learned the hard way what you know
what inverse futures can do to you when you're trading with like coin margin it's it's it's it's gonna get really bad
really fast yeah pretty much um are you mainly a perps trader or do you also trade spot do you
trade on chain do you yeah i do everything i do a little bit of everything um i i just try to be
active you know i have like my core positions like most of what i do is like trade perps and spot but I'm very active on
chain you know I trade perps on chain you know I trade on kuma I trade on many
different venues and yeah but I try to touch every single thing I'm always
happy to you know experiment and try stuff that you know i never i never i don't even know what they are
yeah it is fun for like i don't have a i don't have a job you know like what i do is i just
watch yeah i'm in need i know like you know i have i like a few monitors one of them will have
like a movie the other one will i don't have like a video game sometimes and i'll just you know
scroll the feed until i see something interesting and uh i envy you i have like a video game sometimes and I'll just, you know, scroll the feed until I see something interesting.
And I envy you. I have like three different screens.
I used to have four, but I kind of, you know,
decided to skip one and all of them are filled with either code and terminal
pages and Slack, obviously it's a never ending cycle, you know?
Yeah. I mean,
I know you're bullshitting and you're just saying
it because ozzy's in the crowd and you want to hear how all your screens are filled with code
i literally went to sleep today at six in the morning i've been sitting at my computer for
20 hours trying to optimize some performance stuff on terminal it's fucking crazy
you know sometimes it happens and last night i realized that hey wait hyperlux changed
some of the way the API
works and the available balance wasn't reflecting properly.
And after like 16 hours, it goes, oh, wait, that bugs in fucking production.
Oh, let me just, you know, spawn up a new branch.
Let me just fix that up a little bit.
So like, it's a never ending cycle, man.
And obviously I'm the chief on call officer when when she goes
to uh yeah you're the you're the black sheep of issues every time there's a css project or
something they throw it at you oh no fuck that fuck that no i i've literally given the white
team to spaghetti over here he's he's in charge of it um so if if you're not gonna like
it he's gonna get lashed so okay spaghetti um i i was wondering like um we will switch back to
terminal in a bit but i was wondering from your point of view of just you know you trade sometimes
you're holding a lot of spot i'm guessing you, you know, you have a decent size of your net worth and spot assets.
How do you manage the psychological aspect of just trading and participating in these markets?
You know, just dealing with the stress, maintaining discipline during volatility and, you know, just challenging periods where you have a big drawdown or something like that?
Well, the easiest way of managing
the psychological aspect of it
is to not be all in.
Out of all of my assets,
I think most of crypto represents
at best 20%, 25% of my network,
including all investments and anything.
So even if the entire market goes to zero tomorrow,
I'm not going to die.
It's not going to impact my life in any sort of way.
But I kind of get what you mean.
Most people are extremely irresponsible
and they just go all in on crypto
and they just kind of over leverage
and just hold spot altcoins that have high volatility.
I can't really
relate to that to be honest i used to that when i had like little money because i was kind of trying
to you know uh you know make it but once you know you know have some money to the side and have some
other aspects uh aside crypto then it becomes easier like i was laughing with one of my friends
that you know trading gets easier when you're rich because, you know,
all of these drawdowns, all of these psychological, you know,
stuff that affects you is simply going to go away.
Yeah. I think it's because it's mainly because you just don't care about the
money anymore. Yeah. Well, you know,
obviously you always care about the money, but it's just like, okay,
I am conscious about the fact that I'm taking a risk on crypto.
And out of all of the things that I do, crypto has the most potential to go, like, have the biggest ROI on all of the things that I have.
The others are, like, stable, you know, nice and easy.
But it's just like, it's like a trade-off that you do.
I'm obviously risking something, but, you know, I'm risking with the hopes that I'm going to make it and if it's not it was at least in the beginning so i don't know
man just like a detach well when i say that you don't care about the money it's obviously you
know even if you have millions and millions of dollars you're still going to care if you have
like a two million dollar drawdown um but it's just that you're not chasing the money anymore and and then um you know it's kind of like the thing when you
when people say that you know having being rich makes you nicer right because then you're like
you you help people and you you know you do some donating and like you you help people build a dog
shelter or some shit and it's it's because you have
the means um and i feel like in in trading it definitely makes a change because if you compare
a person who has to make ends meet right let's let's say for example someone who's trying to
pay rent trying to like you know make sure that their kid has a good life and they're trying to trade with no savings, no income,
it can get real.
It's a huge toll.
It's a huge anchor on your mental side of things.
I agree.
And the thing is, I'm not exactly sure how you play stuff.
I try that all the money that I make from crypto, even in this run, once I liquidated
my portfolio
i am off ramping it and i'm trying to make something real out of it not saying that
crypto isn't real or like stuff like that but you know i don't want to be i don't want to have like
stockholm syndrome i don't want to be here stuck forever the reason why i made that money is because
i want to improve my life like i don't want to constantly have this stress of like drawdowns
and whatnot okay say you made like a mil or two, three million dollars from trading.
In my opinion, you'd be crazy to not off ramp and try to do something in the fucking real economy.
I mean, it's just me.
It's just like the reason why I want to make that money is because I want to build stuff around me.
That's like a bit more real than just me sitting in front of the computer and pressing buttons.
You know, I'm married.
I want to have kids.
I can't simply give my kids the...
They can't inherit my trading, you see.
I can have to do something for them.
So it's just how I see it.
Yeah.
Crypto and trading is just a means to an end.
That's how I do it.
Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day,
it's just numbers on our screens until you actually cash it out
and do something with it.
And it was funny.
I was talking in in different space yesterday um and one of the guys brought up the point of how do you how do
you cash out when when there's the fact that the dollar is losing its value the euro is losing its
value and stuff like that how aren't you afraid of putting this you putting those profits you have into real currencies?
I'm like, dude, I mean, yeah, the dollar is losing its value currently.
And yeah, the euro has some problems and stuff like that.
But those things, unlike crypto, take decades, right?
Like the dollar will not collapse tomorrow.
It might collapse like I can see a future
in like 25 years 50 years when the dollar is like you know not the world reserve currency
when like nobody really cares about owning dollars and stuff like that but that's so far away and like
Like, you know, for now, if I want to buy a car, if I want to buy a house, I need dollars.
you know for now if I want to buy a car if I want to buy a house I need dollars I need euros
I need euros.
Yeah, well, you know, fiat currency is a vehicle, right?
Like, I don't think that I'm going to offer my money and just going to keep them in fiat.
That's not the point.
The point is I've made that money and I'm going to try to invest it in real businesses.
I'm going to try to make stuff that actually produces more dollars.
actually produces more dollars because if you take some fiat and you convert it into a business,
if the currency devalues, then your prices that you offer to the rest of the economy are going
to go higher. They're kind of stable. It is sort of a hedge against inflation if you do something
with that money. Obviously, if you just cash it out and just hold it in your bank, that's done.
Yeah. That's not the point.
I mean, listen, you're saying building a business, but I think smuggling people into Europe, Dennis, is not a real business.
Just, you know, well, yeah, I know I actually have some friends that they're not smuggling them, but, you know, they kind of work in the food delivery business and they are obviously hiring immigrants.
So, yeah, I mean, it's always funny to me me because like you'll see a motherfucker telling you like
ah dude i'm not taking my money into my bank because fuck the banks and fuck fiat it's gonna
lose its value it's gonna go to zero and then the motherfucker ends up holding usdt and usdc
or some shit you know and i'm like dude that's like even worse yeah not only it's losing its value it's like
you don't even know what's backing it and shit um so yes it's it's just it's i mean the way my
framework works is unless i have a reason to offer rent money uh like i don't know pay my taxes or
like i want to do something in real life what what what's that uh what it that? The taxes thing? I don't know.
They keep sending me letters or something.
But yeah, unless it's something like that,
the only reason I'll offer money
is if I have a bunch of stablecoins
and I don't see anything to do.
I don't have any reason to put them back into spots.
I prefer to put them in the bank
and wait
until i want to redeploy them or something you know yeah i know it kind of makes sense i can i
get it i get it i try to offer money to kind of uh you know um stimulate the local economy in the
sense that i have friends that kind of want to do certain stuff and i'm just like okay here's
money go do it give me a cut and stuff like that because it's just like you know a rising tide lifts all boats and um if you want to become an investor
like a serious investor you can't really have all your eggs in one industry like obviously you can
become a billionaire just trading but it's just that's like a solo game in my opinion and you know
my end goal is not really to uh simply make all this money and then
just look at everybody around me sitting down and just like oh danis he's like he's made it
it's not the point i mean i do have family values i kind of try and uh you know raise everybody up
because at some point if i were to kind of invest in five to ten different businesses, I can run ten different businesses, but the people that I invest in can.
My goal is to build that around me.
And if you just have the money sitting in a random place, you can't do that.
Yeah, 100%.
A lot of people will hear you out and then say, say yeah but crypto can go so much higher and make
you so much money and like i think the key thing to remember is it can but it can also
go down like 80 percent and make you give back every single dollar you made um it can do a lot
of things and there's no certainty and because there's no certainty is why you know managing
your risks is really important that why you know not being over leveraged is so important
why cashing out money to make sure you have a good leeway um and actually you know when talking
about cashing out and and then we can switch topics because i think people want to hear about more DGEN things. Nexus actually made a really good tweet yesterday
where he said that he sees caching out as...
Well, he wrote it and I kind of thought about it
and I came to a similar conclusion where...
You know how in a video game, you pass a few quests,
you have a bunch of stuff you've done,
and the game gives you a checkpoint right
and that's what you want to do with your trading and with your balances you want to create yourself
checkpoints where for example if you want to i don't know you start with 10 grand you go up to
a million cash out like 200 grand right and you know if you grow to 10 million cash out 2 million
You grow to 10 million, cash out 2 million.
And yeah, this 2 million might become 20 million soon,
but still, it's about being open to the possibility of you losing everything.
I mean, there's so many examples,
and people usually look just as successful ones, right?
It's this, how do you call it?
With the plane thing, I keep forgetting, I always forget tonight survivorship bias oh yeah it's like dude just look at James when the
dude turned like a million into a hundred and then gave every single dollar
back it's it's like dude a hundred million this is like multi-generational
wealth yeah um like you can buy a yacht you can buy a helicopter you can buy a 100 million. This is like multi-generational wealth. Yeah.
Like you can buy a yacht, you can buy a helicopter, you can buy a plane, you can buy two mansions and you're still left with like dozens of millions of dollars.
So yeah, just checkpoints. That's the way you should see it.
Holding those positions on Hyperliquid, which is a public blockchain as well, is like an extra step of them.
But, you know, to each their own, I guess.
Yeah.
But no, you're right. You're right. You're right. You're right about checkpoints.
It's just like, and, you know, I often sit and think about like, okay, what's the point of crypto though?
The point of crypto was just like take the control over the money supply from the banks.
take the control over the money supply from the banks.
If crypto succeeds, they're just going to replace the US dollar
or the other fiat currency.
And at the end of the day, you're still going to have to use them
in the real world, right?
So no matter that you have like a million dollars in the bank
accounting USDs or you have like a million dollar USD tip,
at the end of the day, your goal is still even a fucking society
and try to build stuff around you.
And, you know, it so happened that, you know,
I kind of made, you know, a little bit of money and I kind
of realized, wait a second, I've got no fucking
clue what to do with the money now. Like,
I don't want to risk it again in the
fucking crypto casino. Let me do something
real and I just realized I've got zero
skills on other, you know,
business management stuff.
Just send it to me.
Send it to me. I'll grow it for you.
Yeah. So I guess that was my point.
Yeah, it's a good point. You have to look at it this way.
I feel like, especially if you're here for the long run. And i tweeted about this uh i think a couple of days ago where you have to
remember if you're involved in trading and well if you're if you're involved in crypto and especially
in trading you have to remember that this is a long term thing you have to remember that i mean
think about like a good example is the people that joined crypto like 25
years ago, right? Well, not 25, like 15 years ago. The people that joined 15 years ago, right?
And it's like this thing of like, if you're unable to think long term and remember that you're here
for the long run, you'll be exactly like those people who
bought bitcoin at like you know 100 bucks and sold it for 700 and you know and left um i think
i think there's nothing wrong with that as long as you have uh plans with the money that's like my uh
my take on it you know money is money and uh the output of money shouldn't mean selling more money
because it's just like here and there's like a lot of fucking pauses i think i think the end
result of money should be something helpful something real something that's not numbers
on a screen that's just my yeah i mean cashing out money and you know the selling is is always good
and even if you bought bitcoin at 100 and sold at 300,
you're still fine.
I think the most important thing is remembering
that you're here and just keep at it.
Think of the long term.
Obviously, it changes from person to person, right?
Some people just want to make 10 grand
and just fuck off and do something else.
But I wanted to ask you about,
it might sound cringe to you, but since
you're a very big part of Terminal, I was thinking about it. And I guess you're a builder now,
you're a crypto builder. Yes. How have your views about just trading about crypto in general have changed in any way since
getting into like building in in crypto um i mean you know the market has changed a lot since i first
joined compared to today and the reason why it changed so much is because as you mentioned all
of these builders came along the reason why you had all of is because as you mentioned all of these builders came along
the reason why you had all of these big money as in my opinion a couple of years ago you know the
defy summer and all that stuff is because back then there were like a couple of thousand coins
now they're like hundreds of thousands millions of coins even if you want to pump something extremely
high right now it's not necessarily the same because the chances that somebody finds your coin
and buys it are much slimmer today than they were like you know a couple of years ago because there
isn't a lot more supply of random ass different tokens it fragmented a lot and um i think i think
the opportunities are definitely uh but because there's like a lot more people involved in crypto right now,
there definitely are a lot of opportunities in building different products
and, you know, whatnot.
I don't know. What was the question again? Have I answered?
Have your views changed since getting into like being a builder, basically?
No, I think still, I still think that 95% of stuff is like,
Ponzi's end scams.
Like, no.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I fully agree. Everything changed. I remember
back in 2017, my first cycle was 2017. I joined in like the right
towards the end of it. And
back then you could you literally could know all the coins that are like, you know, the big ones,
like the big 200, you could have to know them and not miss a single one, you know, exactly what each
of them does. And now, like you there's thousands there's tens of thousands of
coins and all of them are pretty big market caps and yeah the top 200 i swear to god i don't even
recognize out of the top 100 i maybe recognize and know what 25 of them are um obviously i mostly
trade majors so that probably is a big reason of it but but still
there's just so many things coming up every single day i'm really curious though like how many
different holdings do you have like how many tokens uh different stuff are you holding because
i'm like three or three or yeah like three or four yeah very few very few. I hold less than I can count everything I'm holding on one hand.
I mean, I have a few bags of stuff, you know, from the past, some investments and stuff like that.
But, you know, it's small money that I don't even consider.
Like, I don't look at it.
Like, the moment it's available, I, you know, get rid of it or stake it or, you know, do whatever.
But 99% of what I hold is just Bitcoin and Ether.
And it always has been like that.
It will always be like this because I'm lazy and I'm old
and I don't have the time to research coins and stuff like that.
Stop saying you're old, man.
You're not old.
You're like 29.
What the hell?
Yeah, I have the old aura so aura yeah that's
all right i remember i remember the uh soul money that like the you know when the this whole meme
craze uh came along like every every new week was a new meta i loved trading that one i loved i lost
like yeah we were we were in the trenches together i remember we're talking oh yeah yeah i i lost like yeah we were we were in the trenches together I remember we're talking about it yeah
I I lost like two grand on some Sydney Sweeney coin me man like I'm so sorry I haven't sold
that and you know all sorts of stuff like that it was amazing but then then it became like I
know pump.fun became a thing and there's like millions of tokens like the chances of you getting
rugged buying a pump.fun coin are like 99.9 of the
times like yeah what's the point what's the point but also does the thing you know when it comes
back to the question of you asking how many assets do you hold like i have i have a few wallets where
you know i'll dabble with shit clones and like buy something if my friends like send me a ca
but i wouldn't consider that one of my holdings you know it's just like a gambling account where yeah i just have some fun and stuff like that never put a
runner to like a hundred like a thousand x for me to consider the holding yeah i mean my my my
nicest uh meme coin win was but i never sold because i was a retard i put like two three
hundred bucks in a coin called
cheese coin something like that and they kind of wanted to be like their own chain or whatever and
it kind of went to an all-time time of like 15 to 16 grand and i haven't sold and then it went
back down to like 1k and i was extremely sorry about it man it's like classic i i i truly believe
i truly believe that cheese is going to revolutionize the world man it's like classic i i i i truly believe that cheesecoin is going to revolutionize the
world man it's like my my two biggest fumbles ever um other than like seeing ether at like
you know 40 or something um my two biggest fumbles will be there was like uh rari token back in 20 like back when the defy
boom was happening rgt and i say i bought it like a mil like 500k or a million market cap or something
like that it was like this defy platform or something and i was selling all the way up
and at some point i think if i wouldn't have sold anything I would have bought,
it would have been like $2 million or something like that.
Out of like $2,000 or $3,000 or something crazy like that.
And what?
No, no, no.
Just go on, go on.
And the second one is Hart sent me the contract address for
whiff when it was at like seven million market cap holy and i faded it like like i told him dude this
is so dumb i'm not i'm not putting any money into it and it went to like what that 1.5 billion yeah
it's insane 200x something like that yeah. I mean, I used to be...
Do you remember the time when
ETH was like $300?
And one exchange, I think it was Kraken.
In one night, it crashed
like 10 cents because of some shit.
Do you remember that?
Yeah.
And, you know, during that time, I was like a really big
XRP maxi.
I was, you know, I was like really poor back then.
I was making like 500 bucks a month from my dev job, something like that.
And I started accumulating XRP for a really, really long while.
So I kind of, you know, after years and years of like putting my money together and, you know, making my stack, I kind of, I was holding, I bought most of them at 20 cents and was kind of had a stack of like 30, 50
K XRP
and I went on a vacation
to Bucharest and
as soon as I got to Bucharest
I've seen the news that they got sued
because it was going up
and up and I was like, fuck yeah, I'm just going to make so
much fucking money and they got sued
and it's fucking crashed, I didn't have my ledger to sell them
because they were like on some weird I don't even know why i need a ledger
because it's yeah no they were on my ledger because the ledgers forced the xrp network and
whatever and you know then you know i got back home and i just you know started selling them
and but it was like you know now i would have been a genius. You should have kept it and went back to $3.
Six years later, you know, it would have paid off, I guess.
It's always funny to me because, yeah, we've been making fun of all the XRP holders for so long. And now it's one of the very few altcoins that went back to its all-time high.
ETH didn't even, you know.
And like, day one. When was ETH didn't even you know and like day one when was it 4k man like I I I
still think it was a couple of months ago but it's been so such a long time since it's been
that yeah right it's it's been a few it hit for 4.2 I think this year but uh you know the all-time high is still 4.8 from like four years ago. So three years ago.
That's crazy.
I wanted to ask you about coding.
So you said you didn't study code in school or uni, right?
You basically kind of learned on your own?
Yes.
So I lived in Germany for a couple of years and I fucking hated it. And I kind of seen this child on Apple's developer conference that he was making an app and he just got like fucking rich because he wrote an app.
I was like, fuck yeah, I'm just going to do that.
And I started at like 15, 16 year old babbling with C++.
And while I was in Germany, in Romania, you kind of are able to choose to go in while you're
in high school to kind of study coding and I kind of asked one of my friends here in Romania to kind
of send me all of the classes that they were doing so I kind of understood how coding worked like C++
extremely bare bones and then I moved back to Romania and I started doing internships
while I was in high school.
And by the time I finished high school,
I had a pretty good grasp on how to build web pages,
how the internet works, Linux, back-end, front-end,
basically a full stack.
I wasn't an expert back then,
but I kind of knew how frameworks works.
Generally, I went and studied business for a full semester in a different town.
And then I kind of dropped out of that one.
And my father, for some reason, really wanted me to get a college degree.
So I signed up to our community college here in my town.
And I did finish for three or four years of um you know software engineering in college but by but all
the time i was in college i was already working for startups in dubai so i was just doing portions
and giggles but i never got the degree i finished all the years did all the exams i just never gave
my final thesis on it no i know it doesn't really matter i think but still, it's pretty cool.
So did you ever dabble with just building automated strategies or never really?
No, not really, because in order to build an automated strategy, you have to have a strategy.
Yeah, any time.
But now after years of writing code for the terminal,
I kind of understand, you know, what the data points are,
you know, when it comes to the markets,
all of these different stuff, moving revisions, indicators,
you know, the order book, how it works and all that stuff.
And it's definitely, you know, once Aziz fires me for giving you
too much info on the terminal,
definitely I'm going to go and start
3Sng Git more properly. I think
I would have a lot more success
if I would simply not
manual trade and just do some
simple strategies. I don't know
that that's my belief, but
it's definitely in my plans.
Yeah.
It's much harder to find
the strategy rather than code
the strategy,
but I think code just became second nature
at this point.
Yeah.
Do you think you're a better coder than Azzy?
Oh, no.
Well, you know,
Azzy is fucking old, so no no and he's british so yeah yeah no
he's crazy man like uh if you take a look at the terminals dom and the order book
he's rewritten all of them in canvas which is basically computer graphics he's done it
you know he's written the dog we wanted to add a dom to the
terminal for months. And I remember visiting him in
Malaysia or I can't remember where we were. And it's like,
you know, this weekend, I'm just going to build a fucking
dom. And over the weekend, he's going to build the entire
bare bones thing is working. I mean, I can't do computer
graphics that much. I really fucking can't. I've started
researching it now because I want to make some video games on my spare time.
But it's definitely a really big learning curve.
That's really awesome.
I have a bunch of things I'm trying to finish in my real life
and get them over with.
And then I have a bunch of books about coding
that I want to start going over.
It's been time, it's been time for a long time and it's about time for me to start.
But I wanted to hear, do you think that most people participating in crypto or even those who are not
should pursue knowledge and coding and just you know learning how to code their own thing?
100% yes. learning how to code their own thing? 100%. Or do you think, yeah?
I think knowing how to code eventually is going to give you an edge in trading.
And I think people look at coding
and it's like this biggest monster
that is like a fucking unreachable.
But take a look at F, for example.
F didn't join us as a software engineer.
He was doing discord
and then he got promoted our product manager he helps him manage all of the people inside the
terminal and write specs for the new features and all of that stuff and you know a couple of months
ago i can remember when he started he started asking us about javascript hey how do i write
code in javascript how does this work and a couple of months passed and he started contributing to
our code base and it's been smooth you know so he never had any coding experience no formal training
no nothing just observing us you know doing all of his work on his own and you know he learned how
to code uh you know so it's like mucho respeto man it's it's it's You don't need a college degree to write code.
You don't.
You just want to learn how computers work.
That's all.
Yeah, 100%.
It's one of those things I feel like that are more practical than, you know, knowledge.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Where would you suggest someone to start with learning how to code?
Because, you know, it's really hard to...
There's so many different languages, so many different things.
What would you suggest?
Well, what I suggest generally is I'm saying, do you know why I learned how to write code?
I didn't learn how to write code because I wanted to learn how to write code.
I wanted to make money.
And in order for me to make money, I was like, okay,
you know, there's all of these really dumb businesses. There are all these different weird, shitty processes that are like dumb. The easiest way to make money is to invent
something new that's not necessarily new, but it works a little bit better and then go on and sell
it. For example, if you want to start learning how to code, find yourself a project. Look at your life, see something that's missing, right?
And then try to build it yourself.
Because if you're just going to start learning how to write code, what's an int, what's a string, what's that?
Okay, you have Legos.
But if you're dumb and you're not creative, what you're going to do with the Lego?
Nothing, because there's no end goal.
You need to have end goals.
I don't know.
I really don't know where i would say to start
coding truly i don't know just start just start just write some dumb yeah i uh you know waro right
oh yeah yeah so uh i mean meanwhile i've been good friends for many years now, and he's also always bullying me because I don't know how to call me dumb,
calling me a monkey, which I am.
And I think one of the really good advice that helped me, you know,
when I was thinking about how I want to start was,
you don't just decide what you want to build.
Just start with something and then look at what is the best language to build this thing you want to build.
And he told me, like, once you learn one of them, like, all the rest are much easier to learn anyways.
So it doesn't really matter.
It doesn't even need.
Not even the language matters.
It doesn't even matter if the code that you write is correct or not.
Every time I start a new project, I will write anything.
The way I do it is, okay, let me just brain dump, right?
Like this is the action I want this code to perform.
And I write it.
And it's extremely dog shit.
It's not performing.
It doesn't work at all.
And once you've done that, once the entire software works from end to bottom,
say you make a blog, right?
And it's extremely lagged, it's shit.
Then you can start going into the mechanics of it.
Why is it shit?
Which part of the software is shit?
And while you learn most about coding, when you debug your own code, not when you start
reading on the internet about coding, that that's not how you learn code.
You learn code by debugging your own bullshit ideas, because that's not how you learn code you learn code by debugging your own ideas because that's when you understand why your logic was flawed and how it was supposed to actually be so start writing
code start writing dog shit code and then you're going to progress to write less dog code if that
makes sense and that makes a lot of sense actually yeah and there are there are no there are no
perfect solutions the only perfect solution is the one that works.
It's like, you know, if I give a feature to any of our employees,
the chances are that we are going to write the same code are extremely slim,
but all of our code is going to solve the same problem.
It just depends on your personality, how you write the code.
You see?
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's very similar to trading, it sounds on your personality, how you write the code. You see? Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's very similar to trading, it sounds like, because if someone would tell me like,
hey, how should they learn how to trade?
I'll tell them, just start trading.
Just put a hundred bucks into an account and just start clicking buttons.
And you'll, you know, at the end of the week, look at the results and figure out what you've
done wrong.
Pretty much.
Pretty much.
Yeah.
Go ahead. Yeah. Rep yeah repetition is the mother of all
learning you know that's how it goes yeah that's the especially as the soviet in you coming out
that's the ex-soviet in you um well i i only have one question left for you and uh and that's pretty
much it so before i ask it uh I want to remind all of our listeners,
first of all, thanks a lot for coming.
I'm hoping you're enjoying this as much as I do.
And if you have any questions, if you want to say anything,
ask anything, ask Dennis anything, ask me anything,
bully one of us, I don't know,
just click on the chat box icon at the bottom right corner
and leave those questions, and we'll touch them in a couple of minutes.
Benes, this is a question I ask all of our guests and I'm interested in hearing what you think about it.
Well, what do you believe making it is and do you feel like you've made it?
That's an amazing question, to be honest.
I think making it is, you know, you wake up every day excited about what you're about to do. And, you know, you have the freedom to kind of, if I don't want to work today, I'm simply not going to work today. If I want to, you know, study something, I'm simply going to study something. If I want to, you know, go on a vacation, I'm going to go on a vacation.
go on a vacation i'm gonna go on a vacation um obviously i'm gonna say i haven't made it because
you know my boss is fucking in the call but um i still have to work so but you know making it is
like it's it's not i don't know man it's like making it is make i don't know let me just think
for a while i guess um yeah i don't know just freedom i guess that's what making it means you know
uh basically fuck your money and fuck your money is not like a hundred million dollars one billion
dollars like fuck your money is like you know all of the things that i have to pay for on a monthly
basis are covered and you know tomorrow i simply can't just lose my job and i just simply don't
care to be honest because i'm just vibing that's like how i see making it yeah that's really yeah i agree with that 100 i feel like having just enough money
to cover everything um that's fuck you money 100 it's gonna be it's gonna be 25 grand in a savings
account you know it can be anything it can be anything for some for some people
fuck you money is zero because they go on and become priests that's fuck you money because
they don't care yeah for you fuck you money and having an extra kidney because then you can tell
as you fire me i don't care well you know there's like how many 50 60 listeners here i guess we can
borrow one from them yeah we. We'll figure it out.
Well, that's pretty much it for me, man.
Unfortunately, I cannot ask you any secretive questions.
We might have some competitors listening here trying to steal company secrets from you guys.
But is there anything else you want to add?
Well, you know, I thought you were the host, to be honest, I'm just
asking questions, but not really, to be honest, I don't know. If you
were to ask me if I could make the terminal more performant, if I
were to rewrite it, I would say yes. I've been sitting and thinking,
and I think there's like, you know, after years and years of development, I think there's like
amazing ways in which you can architect software, even for the browser, that's just going to blow
everybody's minds. I'm not going to say exactly how, I'm going to tell Ozzy how, but I think I think, you know,
with the advent of AI and all this
stuff, some new, some new
crazy stuff
in terms of technology is going to pop out.
So I'm really excited about the future.
There you go. And yeah, congrats
to you guys for launching the
new UI update
and everything. It looks fantastic. I've been really
enjoying it.
All I need is white mode.
So Spaghetti, I'm waiting for you, man.
Yeah, the new UI was mostly built by Transgenic over here
in our call, so kudos to him.
He's been working on it for a really long time,
and we kept pushing updates to the old version,
and there was billions of conflicts every week that you
had to kind of fix. So you know, thanks a lot, man.
That's really awesome, man. Well, I want to go to the
comments. We have one person asking a pretty serious
question. I have no idea what it means. But maybe you'll
understand what he means. We have Akiraaj asking, how do you
find the optimum between quickly publishing new features
that users want and maintaining the reliability that's
more critical for a trading terminal than most other
software?
Oh, Dennis left. Dennis comes back. um
fresh twitter i didn't expect it yeah yeah all good uh did you hear the question no no no just repeat
it yeah so uh akhar was asking how do you hear the question? No, no, no. Just repeat it.
Yeah, so Akira was asking, how do you find the optimum
between quickly publishing new features
that users want and maintaining their reliability
that's more critical for a trading terminal
than to most other software?
Well, that's an amazing question, isn't it?
The thing is,
how do you find the optimum?
Well,
there is no optimum, you see.
There's like, I don't know.
There's like really no answer to that one, to be honest.
When it comes to testing and making sure that the things
that you released are all right,
we have a dedicated Q&A department
that is simply to kind of test on our staging environments. We have paid beta
testers in our Discord that whenever there's a new release, we get them and we pay them for the
best feedback, the most bug reports and stuff like that. We're doing it. Sometimes some of the things
get out of sneak past us. And when it comes to the speed of development,
as you can see lately, we've kind of slowed down a bit
because our team also increased quite heavily.
So we kind of try and make like fixed release times,
mostly because there's like a lot of stuff, you know,
more performance to fix, new features that we
plan to add. And most of the times, it's a lot of code changes. And generally, the way it kind
of works, I do most of the code reviews. And I also have to kind of give our guys new tasks.
And I also have to write code myself. And there's like a million other things that go on behind the
scenes that people are kind of like, oh, why is this slide bugging production?
Well, I'm sorry.
But what we make sure every single time is that the sizing,
there might be some slight UI bugs at times.
I'm not perfect.
I'm sorry.
But when it comes to sizing, execution, and whatnot, that's extremely battle-tested.
Yeah. There you go go that's why you
guys are number one it's a vibe man like there is no optimum there's there is no book that you're
gonna read that's gonna tell you oh this is how you're gonna weigh these problems and you're
gonna make the best decisions always doesn't exist there you go um well that is that's pretty much it
man thank you so much for coming i really appreciate
you coming on i uh i knew this was going to be a fun one and uh i had a lot of fun thank you yeah
me too i'm really glad that you invited me i'm pretty amazed that this many people kind of
listen to my blabbering around but you know i'm i'm thankful for you know inviting me over
my pleasure man surprisingly even though we don't trade regularly,
we gave some of the best advice anyone can give to traders.
Honestly, we brought up some of the most essential stuff.
So yeah, thanks for coming, man.
Really appreciate it.
And guys, if you don't follow Dennis, to any of our listeners,
make sure to give him a follow.
I think it's a great addition to your timeline.
You can see and just see how he gets bullied by Azzy
and all the other team members of Encilico Terminal.
And you can bully him as well and just see nice shitposting.
So, yeah.
If that's not worth the follow, I don't know what is.
It's definitely worth it i promise
yeah uh well again thanks for coming mate see you uh next time somewhere and uh yeah maybe
we'll do this again sometime yep you've got my account bye yeah and before we finish uh to all
of our audience thank you so so, so much for coming, guys.
It means the world to us, makes it all worth it. I do want to mention we will have updates on any
new episodes on the Kuma account and on my account, so make sure to follow us both if you want to see
the next episode next week and follow Keep Up With Times and everything in the schedules. Another
thing, notes of this episode will be available
on monday i'll be posting them on my account and a recording of this episode will be available on the
kuma profile if you missed the part if you want to hear everything all over again if you just like
dennis's voice there's a recording so you can check that out um and yeah one last thing is kuma huge
thanks to kuma for making this happen it wouldn't be happening
without them and now you can try to trade on kuma with up to 50x leverage we're currently giving out
seven thousand dollars in trading rewards every single week that you can claim every single day
and all i have to do is trade um so yeah go make some trading volume get those get a piece of those
rewards on top of that we also have a weekly raffle of $1,200 in rewards.
The more trading volume you do, the more raffle tickets you get
and the higher the chances are of you winning that money.
And a couple of last few things.
We have a bunch of rumors of a bunch of updates coming up
to Kuma, a lot of big things that we've
been working on for a long, long time.
And they're going to be revealed really, really soon.
So stay tuned to that.
And if you want to know more about what's coming,
you can join the Discord.
Link is in the bio.
Stay up to date with everything, all the updates.
And Alex, our CEO, is going to join the podcast next week.
And you can check the Kuma
timeline for updates on that
and yeah guys
thanks a lot for coming again, thank you to
Kuma for hosting these spaces and
Dennis for coming and
yeah cracking a cold one with me
and thank you to
Ozzy for
releasing Dennis
from his
closet, giving him into an access
he was just here to make sure i don't say any
the coppers you know yeah i'm already expecting azzy to dm me like yo you gotta delete the
recording it's not yeah you should invite him next though you should invite him next i did i actually came i i spoke to
i had you and uh ozzy on mind to bring you guys on and i spoke to ozzy and he was like dude i'm like
i'm like i'm just a boomer coder i don't even know what the hell i'm gonna talk about
i don't even trade you should bring dennis on just take that so if anything if anyone
is mad at julie if it's in silica
is like I'm getting your kidney, just tell him just so you know, yeah, Ozzy made it happen.
So thanks a lot for telling everybody. I was lucky seconds. Thanks. Thank you, mate. Good
job, Johan. And thanks to all of our listeners for coming. And yeah, see you guys on the
next episode next week. Bye bye. Bye bye.
