Hey, man. Hey, good morning. What's up? Good afternoon. Rather. Good evening. I don't know where you are in the world
Yeah, good evening. We're all we're Europe or is here. So oh my goodness. I know dude, especially after the
By the way guys, I'm sitting outside by an airport so if you hear a lot of playing how fitting yeah, don't be shocked
How's going how was the how was the livestream
It was fun rookie was afk today he had a meeting so I
Did it solo Delo? I invited poem Lord to join me today. It was a good time. We had a good time
I joined in the live stream and I saw you making the guests the drawing for 500 bucks
I mean we do it every Mondays and Thursdays and the goal was to give away a million dollars in a year
And I think we're pretty close. I think we're like 975
Since March or April, I can't even remember now
Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, we'll get to that as well. I want to ask you a couple of questions about that. It's interesting
All right, we already have a couple of guests here
So I think we can just jump right into it
Well, first of all, welcome everyone to the 18th edition of spill the alpha today
We have Ponzi who is a great fellow deejin a mega trader
a really cool dude that we're going to ask a lot of questions and
Yeah, thanks a lot for coming man
Absolutely. Thank you for having me. I'm excited. Yeah, it's a pleasure
So yeah, I hope all of you guys the listeners will enjoy it
If you have any questions at any point during the space on the bottom right corner, there's a chat box
You can leave any questions
For Ponzi for me for Victor, whatever it is, and we're gonna touch
Those questions at the end of the show
Yeah, so we can jump right into it. First of all, how's it going, man?
It's good, dude. I'm in the busiest. I think I've ever been in
Three years on top of a bull market. It's just a max stimulation right now
Yeah, that's good. You know, it's every single time we have those periods. It's like
You know every time it's boring you're like praying for the busy times to come and then they come and you're like
Oh, I don't know if I want that
Yeah, it's actually nuts. I remember just about a year ago
When we were all pretty down bad and just looking for any volatility and praying here
We are a year later should happens fast in this industry, huh? Yeah, super fast
I mean I wrote a post about it. I think last week about when we first hit 50k that
Just a year ago. We were so down bad. It's insane how fast things change
Yeah, like so close to all-time highs after this crazy two years that we've been through
Yes, it's been a rollercoaster. That's for sure
Yeah, well, I want to start with the beginning of you and crypto. How did you actually get into crypto and and into trading?
Experiments with the dark web Silk Road Pirate Bay, you know, so I'd kind of did my bit and I think it was 2015
Then lost access to it didn't care 2017 comes around my brother calls me
He's like bro that Bitcoin stuff set like $800 or something. I think it was 1200 at this point
I'm like, holy shit. And then I didn't do anything about it. And then September rolls around or August really
Same year 2017. He calls me again. I'm in college. He's like, you know that Bitcoin stuff is almost at 2800
And I'm like, alright, there's something here. And that's when I that's when my life ended and started all at the same time. I
Got my first client. I bought was OMG. Oh my school on coinbase and then
You know, I didn't know what how to learn. I didn't know there wasn't much resource at the time
So my brother was like you had to get on Twitter
There's a bunch of guys that are smarter than us that are you know, really sharing some person in alpha
I made a Twitter and I started following people and then I made a bit tricks and I started slinging like the shittiest of
Altcoins that you could possibly found them
I think some of my best P&L came from like red coin sia coin
Verge, you know the the Pornhub coin all that shit all those classics everyone made money on those was a good thing
There's like everyone had a thing with sia coin
That was a banger. Somebody said what is Ponzi eating right now. I hear that wet smack
I'm having soup my brother
Yeah, so classic 2017 with like two grand I made I don't know close to a hundred and a few months
thought I was a fucking genius like everyone else and then by
February, it's all rapidly vanishing and
I couldn't understand why because I didn't know what I was doing
You know, I watched it disappear over the year and just made a lot of mistakes
I probably ran it back down to like 10 grand maybe less and then I got into bit mechs perps
Probably 2018 like at the end of 2018
Just kept depositing and trying again
Started reading books on how to trade
You know lots of perps trading then, you know came FTX and
Probably started making real money in like 2020
Money that mattered to me, which was you know, finally allowing me to like quit my job and go full-time crypto
and now today I would say I do a lot of derivatives trading still and
I do a lot of angel investing now a lot more angel investing advising for projects of interest
I like to see when people are building. I like to you know, support my my fellow crypto OGs and
streaming now with rookie and
You know, I kind of have my foot in every pond
So when you started trading what do you feel was the biggest struggle that you've had and how did you ever come it?
Marrying a bias was probably
There's like a really rudimentary concept of when I actually started trading because at one point I'm just buying stuff
You know, I'm throwing darts at a dartboard buying stuff
Seeing what people are posting and buying it. No questions asked. I think I really started trading at the end of 2018
that was when I actually it took me about a year to realize that there's there's an there's a strategy to what I'm trying to do and
You know, I was doing it wrong because I was fomoing a lot chasing trades forcing trades marrying a bias
I was really only a longing guy because you know, naturally I didn't like being a bear
So I wasn't playing every side
I was in a horrible bear market and I was just constantly looking for a bounce instead of shorting bounces
I was just playing it wrong and I didn't know why but
You know, it took me probably another few months to realize why so I would say that real trading developed it in
1819, you know in the real the real bear market bullshit the classic China FUD the India bands all that shit
trying to trade news narratives
But I was really small-sized, you know, I don't even think I was trading six figures until
Probably 2020 but 2019 actually, I
Don't know my timelines are fucked. I don't remember anything anymore
it makes sense because if you're saying that you don't like shorting as much and you're more of a longing type person then you know
It makes sense that you started racking up the numbers in those periods
Yeah, it was it was the classic like
not having a clue of what I was doing but getting lucky and
The only difference between me and other people who you know
We're around back then that aren't today's I kept trying and I kept losing
But I was willing to figure out what I was doing wrong to try and replicate
A working strategy at some point it started to click, you know, I found you know, I my my edge trait
changed over us, you know every few months, but
Finding an edge that works for you for a small period of time is
Probably the best thing you can do and understanding when that edge is no longer
Applicable to that environment is also super important whether it's you know, just going to max risk on full leverage at the right time or
Doing nothing. So what I think at one point in 2019
I realized that I had to adapt to the changing environment and
That was when I actually started to make trades
I used to let shit ride and like I'd have crazy P&L and then I wouldn't close and I wasn't understanding that we were in
a bear-chop environment for a long time, so I just kept getting upset but
After a few cycles you learn those things and if you don't then you don't make it
Yeah, exactly. I feel like adapting to new environments or to a change in the environment is one of the most important
Skills of a trader just knowing when things are shifting
And also touching back to what you said about your edge
You know edge will always diminish
As far as like from my experience every single edge I've had
Went down, you know over time
And I feel like you need to have also the skill just understanding
Okay, some things not the same anymore, you know, just just being able to realize that it's happening
Yeah, and it sucks because you'll adapt to an environment after so long like 2018 2019
I finally got to understand we were in a bear market so that when the bull market actually started
I was I wasn't letting shit ride like my biggest fumble ever ax infinity
I was trading it like it was, you know, a classic range type type trade or I
Wasn't adapting to what now is gonna be the let it ride environment and I fumbled like 70 million dollars
I was trading ax the infinity at like 30 cents
Letting it ride to I don't know. I got a solid almost a 2x out of it
And I was like right back to zero
Wasn't back to zero that shit went to a hundred and change in a few months and that was a painful one
Yeah, you know the environment shifts all the time
And if you can adapt with the environment or chase a narrative or you know be right behind it
Then then you'll do great in this space
Yeah, and I mean if you look at it
It's like some observation that I've had that I also spoke about with Nexus that
Most people the average person starts performing best at the end of the period of that
Environment if you know what I mean
And I feel like that's just because they're finally starting to adapt to this environment that has been going on for you know
Six months one year, whatever that might be
Just at looking at my early periods of trading
I was always performing best the towards the end of you know that part of the cycle
Because you get used to it you start actually you know executing as you should
and then it's starting to be already a little bit too late and you know
Yeah, and there's guys that I've come to love and hate in this space and I won't name any specifically
But you know, there's the classic range traders that excel in bear markets and they they trade ranges amazing
But the second we start trending it's a nightmare for those guys because they'll try to fade
Breakouts, they'll you know, they'll try and trade ranges which are no longer there. It's pretty much on a monthly time frame
You get the other side of that you get the guys who are great at up only just slamming shit going insane
But the second we start, you know ranging or down trending, it's they're no longer in their forte. And so having a well-balanced
Tool set is super important and like just under not if you even if you don't have a well-balanced tool set just understanding
Hey, I'm no longer excelling in this environment. Stop just stop doing what I'm here. Take a break and trying to yeah for that. I
Feel like it's very important to I feel like every trader should know what environment or what you know
type of market he excels in
Like for example, I'll give you myself as an example
I'm a really bad scalper in my opinion in my journals opinion
You know for for some time I've been trying to fight it and forcing myself to scalp and trying to get better
Which is something that you can do
But I think it's it's just important to at least understand what you're good at and sticking to it
You know, I can give you as an example the crypto dog, which probably almost everyone knows
He spoke about it many times that he trades bull markets and during bear markets. He's just dormant
He's not even trying to trade because he just knows that
Bull markets is very excels and he will just easily take like one or two years off not doing anything
Just waiting for the good times
And and you know like a big part of a good trading career is just knowing what you shouldn't be doing and avoiding that at all costs
And max max agree with that
Yeah, so how long do you think it took you from the moment you started to?
Actually trade or if it if it came beforehand
Like how long from the beginning of your journey did it take you to become profitable?
Probably two years like a realistic
A realistic answer for that is two to three years
I was taking every check I made working and throwing it back into you know, one more deposit one more bit next deposit
Just trying again and trying again and just
Porching money, you know, just not not really gripping it. But yeah, probably two years realistically two to three years and
How did you keep yourself motivated?
As horrible as it sounds looking at others because
At the time, you know, I I had Kobe on
Who else I think flood and they were posting well at least flood was posting PML and I was like, holy shit
You know, there's guys that are killing it if they can kill it. Why can't I what am I doing wrong?
So being seeing others excel in the space was motivation to meet to be like, all right
If these fucking guys can do it, then there's no reason I can't know
Whether it's more experience that I need or more time behind the screen or understanding dynamics, you know
So I just kept putting I think I put probably 10,000 hours
Behind the screen just trying to understand
What I needed to do differently and at the end of the day it worked out
Yeah, well, I mean that's the key really just sitting down clicking and putting in the hours
And at some point it really put into work. It will probably
Start, you know working out
But yeah, I do feel like having people is you know
Motivation is a really good part and I definitely had those kind of people as well
But I feel like you really need to balance it and not let it turn toxic if you know what I mean
Like some people will start looking at other people, you know posting crazy PML's and even if they had a fantastic month
They will just you know shit on themselves and just not to be able to have any positive emotions to their performance or whatever
And it starts getting really toxic. That's super important to understand because
like I do very well for myself and
my best friend in the world is rookie XBT and
I talked to him every single day and I see his PML's and I feel fucking awful
Like I am just like how does he do it like that, you know seven-figure days?
Which at first it was really hard for me to be like I'm doing everything wrong
But if you know, I was looking back with my like in real life friends and being like, hey, I just did this this month
I'm like, dude, you're fucking crushing it, you know
You're doing incredible and I'm like it doesn't feel that way because everyone around me is doing ten times better
at some point you move on from that mentality because
Everyone's circumstances are different and comparison is the thief of joy. So
Comparing yourself to others will also put you in a dark place and it comes to a great
You know peace when you let that go and just be happy for others being
As good as they are and look up to that and use it as motivation and not as like a arc
Why can't that be me, you know?
Yeah, exactly. You really need to know to divert it to the right place
So if you would go back to the past and you could give yourself an advice to the beginning you who comes into trading or
Or in the middle of the path, whatever that may be. What tip would you give to your past self?
hold those spot bags the issue with me was I
Did not have a big portfolio at all
You know, I have if you have less than a hundred thousand dollars
You're consistently trying to make a massive aim to double up that portfolio and the issue would be I would go all in on something and
Would do great, you know, I would I'd make 50% on that but I'm all in on that token
I can no longer stomach your drawdown if anything if I give back that P&L
So I would close it and I would try to rotate it to something else when I was sitting on possibly the best
the best performer for that period of time
Solana was a great example of that for me. I
Didn't have too much money. I think I probably had like a quarter million dollars at the time and
Solana is trading at like a dollar two dollar three dollar. I
You know was all in on Solana. It starts to move up a little bit. I take profit
Try to find something else. Meanwhile, Solana is about to enter the craziest bull market of all time
So I think allocating a proper amount to sitting in spot and never touching and then using a stack to trade is important
So whether you split your however you split up your allocation
It's important to have a stack that you will never touch and it's just your spot
Maybe you rotate every quarter. Maybe you rotate every once a year just to align with the narrative
and then another piece of advice I would have for myself is have more conviction because I had some of the most incredible trade ideas
Over the years and I was so certain of them
But people that I looked up to didn't believe in them and they would you know
They were kind of like counter trading that narrative on the timeline
And so I was like, well this guy's way wealthier than me and you know
He's the more successful trader than me. So I mean he probably has a really good opinion
Therefore I'm just not gonna trust myself and that probably costed me solid eight figures
It's really painful when you do have the right idea
But you don't trust yourself enough to hold through it and then seeing it actually unfold
So if you do your due diligence and you take a bet on yourself
Stick with your conviction because that that shit will print for you
Yeah, I feel like this fog bag is a really good tip because
Throughout different periods of my trading career. I've had you know, you always have that periods
That's first and also throughout my learning curve
My spot portfolio carried me, you know
I was losing money on perps trying to become a better trader while thankfully my spot portfolio was rescuing me and without it
I don't know if I would be here today. So I
Definitely think that especially if you're just trying to get into trading
And you're in a bull market having a spot portfolio is it can be a lifesaver. I'm like 99% sure that
most people shouldn't ever touch perps and
you know do as I say not as I do because I do touch perps and
Have made a great success in perps, but I've also had
Horrible horrible months horrible years where I pretty much zeroed out
And that could have been I could have probably done equally as well
If I never touched perps and we traded spot and was more patient
Patient and convicted on those spot backs. But yeah, the perps is like get rich overnight type narrative, isn't it?
Yeah, I actually that's an interesting thing. I don't know if I would have I probably would have
The same amount of money as I do have today if I would never touch perps
I'm not sure that's an interesting thing to think about but
Yeah, I don't know. I feel like people sometimes get into perps trading thinking that oh, it's the same like spot
just bigger size which it is, but there's so much more to it's like
Just the leverage aspect of it suddenly you have a liquidation price. You can't become a bag holder and that's it
You know funding fees whatever that might be
The gambling aspect of it, which is a few times higher than just trading spot
But you know, it would be it would be kind of two-faced of me to say to someone don't get into perps trading, you know
So, what do you think was the most memorable trade or moment or period of your trading career so far?
honestly, great question, I'll never forget it and
If you think about it most of the times you really only remember losses that really affect you sometimes big wins
I'd say the losses hurt more
Win was probably I can't remember if it was 20 or 21 because my memory is horrible
But it was when sushi right after DeFi summer
I was trading perps on Binance
Sushi Uniswap one inch all those tokens were recently. I think that was late 2020. It was 2020, right?
Yeah. Yeah, and I remember that was when I really realized Hasaka was on top of every
narrative and every beta and and was you know, great at it and
Sorry, I had positioned myself
Sorry guys, I'm at a restaurant. I'm just recording the check. Yeah, no worries. Oh, I'm still enjoying that
Yeah, I had positioned myself really well in sushi and I like the chart looked great
You know the volume looked great. I was like, well, this looks great
You know sushi starts running and that was one of the first times that I actually held a position with my conviction and
My upside in target in mind and it really well, I think I like 10x my account over the next two weeks
Just trading that same narrative across all those
But that was an incredible incredible time. I was I was in South America at the time just on the beach like in my own world
Not talking. Yeah living living the Instagram trader dream
Yeah, just rotating perfectly between every defy perp
And then my least favorable moment, but that I will never forget was getting liquidated in 2021 for pretty much everything
There's a lot of I I was pretty much zeroed out
And I held a really big space the night before with like cred and
Coby and Scott Milker. It was right during BTC Miami. I got fucking smoked
Broke a rule that I shouldn't break it touched my spot
Broke that I put that between like five different accounts five different sexes. It was finance X
Just like several accounts I split it up I was like, oh, you know big liquidation event comes I'm spread out and
I'm not super high leverage, but I
$7 to $12. It was trading at 21. This is April of 2021 and
I went to bed. I went to bed at like 3 a.m. After the space there was like 4,000 people in that space
It was a really big night. I was tired and I woke up at 7 a.m. And
You know, my mom was visiting me at the time
She was at my house and she was knocking on my door at like 7 a.m
Which I was shocked at I was like this is out of the door near and she's like your brother's trying to call you
And I looked at my phone and it was over. I saw all the calls
I saw the messages keyboard gains II, you know, the wheat art shot was going off
Don't even think it was the retards at the time, but it was a group shot with all of us
and I had gone liquidated sushi had
Fallen from $20 to $2 and it just wicked to $2 which my liquidation was it was like
264 and by the time I had woken up it was trading at like $11
so I had gotten filled liquidated in the same candle and
It had stabilized that like, you know
Ten to twelve dollars in that range and so that was like the biggest account blowup and then the other accounts weren't completely fucked
Immensely, it was like an XRP long and ethong and a BTC long and they were they were bad
They were not great drawdowns, but that first, you know, I lost like over a little over half a million on that sushi trade
Which really fucked me up because I had built that for you know
Three years two years at the time and all of a sudden I get cleaned out on one one liquidation of that like that
And I think the space has changed. You don't really see that kind of flash crash anymore
And there was actually a massive finance lawsuit
class action lawsuit for that specific day
Because it was like there'll be only exchanges where there they traded at $2 and change
And I was considering joining it at the time
But I didn't I was like I'm just gonna fight back and and do it all over again
and I did but it was it was dark because you're used to trading a much larger size and then
Now you're zeroed out, you know, what do you get? What are you gonna do?
So it was it took me a long time to get back on my feet. I think probably like six months
Yeah, I know what you mean, I mean, I'm pretty sure that everyone suffered really hard in May 21
I I personally also almost got liquidated and lost almost everything
I want to tell us a little bit about about the aftermath
how did you you know, how did you have the mental power to you know, get back to it and
Overcome those those losses and everything else
Truthfully I was really fortunate because I had a my girlfriend at the time and she was there to
Support me and in my in my place, but I'm not even a lie. I woke up and I don't do drugs or anything but I
Xanax for flights and I literally just took a Xanax
I was like I need to pretend this is happening and fell back asleep and woke up at like 4 p.m. And
then assessed the damages and
For the next six months. I think I had like 70 grand left
Had built a little bit back and then I was oversized and got hurt again
But for the next seven to twelve months
I just kept surrounding myself with the guys that I had looked up to so I had I had looked up to all of these people and
I had you know infiltrated the circle of the guys I looked up to became friends with them guys honestly like keyboard monkey
Incredible trader. He's got years and years and years under his belt and just watching him trade and learning about his strategies and
How he you know dealt with that type of stuff as well
Lots of guys like that. I just you know, I had a
Cell phone number too. So I would just talk and hang out with these guys look for opportunities, you know share alpha
You know, we made a group chat and whenever we're pitching each other trade ideas
All that stuff really helped me get back to
To a solid place a solid place to work from
But it took a while and it was such a fucking morale hit because now I have a short stack
And I'm putting on sighs to try and you know, make it all back and it's clearly not working
You can't you can't over leverage like that and in that kind of environment
And I was just desperate. I was so desperate because I had bills to pay I was like fuck
I know it's it's a it's probably the worst feeling that you could possibly deal with
Surrounding myself with the right people was
The best move because there are lots of people who believed in me and they were like you're gonna do it again
You're fine. Like you're fine. I'm like looking for jobs. I'm like fuck. I should just quit crypto crypto stupid. I'm an idiot
But just having the right friends to be like nah, dude, you're fine you'll make it back, you know, there's more opportunity out there
Yeah, I feel like the social circle is Matt is a massive part of this job
Especially, you know taking the fact that
It's a very lonely job if you're doing it on your own if you don't have people around you if you're not active on crypto
Twitter you're just you know sitting at home alone and trading charts, but
You know suddenly you have a group of people
Whoops sorry, I just connected to my car. Can you guys still hear me? Yeah. Yeah, I can hear you
Yeah, I wouldn't even be in this space if it wasn't for my friends
I'm not even a lie like yeah in it for the tech and it for the money
Really in it for the people I met
They made my life for the better and I might be a wholesome sucker for that shit
But I really do appreciate every every person that I met through the fucking internet
And you know, I've got I've got the weirdest group of friends somewhere in their 40s and some are under 20 years old
And we all we all jive and help each other out push each other up
That's probably the main reason I stuck around for as long as I did because when I lost all my money
I'm like, what the fuck am I doing here? What's my role now?
Friends help me help me keep keep my chin up for sure
So what do you feel like was the biggest lesson from trading so far?
What something that maybe changed your perspective during that time or you know, whatever it might be?
Um biggest lesson is probably don't marry your losses I've
You know, there's every trader here has that point where they're looking at an unrealized P&L
That is so disgusting from a mistake
They made that they can't even close it and they're adding more and they're averaging down and they're like go
I'll get out on the first sound of a sign of a bounce. That's what I'll do. You know, it's got it's coming
It's coming. There's got to be some sort of balance and you're marrying that loss and you're paralyzed
You're just staring at that number as it gets worse and worse and worse
When things go south early is so very important because if it breaks a level that you considered
Very important and it continues to cascade and you're watching for that bounce that never comes
You can easily lose a large portion of your stack
And that goes not just for perps, but also spot trading say you
Found the next AI token the next narrative you're all in
It starts to you know run against you and you're like, oh, you know
I was supposed to I was supposed to cut it out and my at a 20% drawdown and
But it's got a balance, you know, it's got a bounce and that way it'll only be a 10% drawdown and and I'll sell then
that bounce may not come and you may lose more and more and more so understanding that the
You got to be able to cut your losses and move on from that trade without it fucking your psyche
I was probably the biggest biggest lesson in my in my position. That actually happened yesterday. I took a pretty solid loss
And it's not even that I cut it at the right time
But I was kind of salty about the whole thing. I was like, oh fuck. I just took a solid loss
I kind of let it beat on me. I was kind of looking for trades and then that was two days ago
I can't even remember. I think it's two days ago. And then I just came to terms with that loss
I was really grumpy all day. I was like man. I just lost a fucking down payment on a house
You start thinking about everything that you can buy with the money you lost
you're like wow, I could have bought this or that money could help you here and then
Being able to disconnect from that and just say it's a number on a screen
you're playing a game and and you know, there's another opportunity to make it back and that's what I did literally today I
May made most of the back just putting myself in there myself in the right spot
But coming to terms with the psyche of that was a loss book. It keep moving is really important
Probably once tweeted something about we act very fast when we try to make money and we act very slow when we're trying to protect
like I had the same thing I had this thing where I
You know losses could freeze me or I couldn't disconnect from them and all that
And I think it's really important to remember for people because I mean the reason people don't close
Positions like that is because they think okay, it's just a drawdown. But my you know, my idea is still right
it will go back up and do a 10x or whatever and
I was talking to one of a friend of mine who was really helping me with trading and
He told me something that really changed my perspective on it. And he just told me listen just cut the trade take the loss
You see that your thesis starts to come into play just jump back in on the train
Yeah, you'll make a little bit less money, but at least you're not gonna risk all of your money
Taking a loss and the worst-case scenario making less money
Even if your idea does play out feel like it's always a good idea. There's always the right thing to do because people just
Like I don't know you need to make sure you're protecting your money
You know and I feel like the more I'm a tour as a trader and the more I like, you know
The old maybe don't maybe it's because I'm we're getting older
Protecting my money and becoming more risk-averse is just becoming more and more dominant than not in my trading. Definitely
Yeah, absolutely. My risk tolerance and risk aversion has changed so much in just two years
I was always risking it all to you know to double up or triple up or whatever it was
I was always like I used to live with probably two grand in my bank account and
my entire net worth on exchanges just
You know battling the books with my entire net worth and I think you know, I bought a house
You know, I I have a wonderful girl that I'm gonna marry and have kids with and I consider that all now
I'm 20 26 years old. I'm like, holy shit. I can't you know, I can't lose it all tomorrow and be fine when I was 23
I could lose it all tomorrow and try again
But it's like the video game is coming closer to the midlife and I don't want to have to you know
Respawn in the back. So yeah
Everything's shifted. I feel like there's two things that make that make this
You know progression if you want to call it that way. The first thing is probably the big first loss
The big yeah, the first big loss that you have in your career. I feel like everyone have something like this
Where you lose like, I don't know
70 60 half or more percent of your money or whatever it might be
It really shocks you and then I mean, I feel like after May 20 21
My whole perspective to towards risk chain
So I feel that is one thing that
Might cause that and another thing is when you start cashing out
Feel like when you start taking money from crypto exchanges to your bank, you're suddenly like
Holy shit, that's that's real, you know, it's actual money
Because crypto money is not real money and I tweeted about it a couple weeks ago that you know
If I could lose a thousand dollars on on a rug on Uniswap or whatever
And I wouldn't really mind that much. Yeah, I'll be pissed off
But I wouldn't it wouldn't ruin my day
But if I lose a thousand dollars in cash a hundred dollars in cash, I would be so pissed off, you know, yeah
This this space has really fucked up numbers for us
on a weird scale and it takes going back to real life to realize like what we're really doing here like
when I think about the volume that I trade on an exchange every month, it's
Just absurd. It's really just absurd the amount of paying fees like I circle back on those little things
I'm like, holy shit. We're really we're turning over a lot here and
You know not too long ago. I was just a kid with a dream and two grand
Thinking, you know, maybe there's something here and a few years later. It turns out there definitely was something there
Yeah, it's amazing. Well, you're here now and you made it
So not yet. I'm still I'm still battling in the books. Yeah, we'll get to that
But yeah, I want you to tell us about money magnet show and how did it come to be what it is
It started with rookie rookie was
it was kind of like a trivia show and
He we were in Singapore together and I was streaming too. I was doing my own streams trading. I was max stimulation
Streaming I was like trading plank war zone at the same time
Just over leverage trading for fun like swinging swinging stupid position small accounts P&L numbers while playing Call of Duty and
I was having a ball with it. And one day I'm in Singapore with rookie and
We're having a good time. This was back in February or January of last year and
You know, he's talking about a show. I'm talking I'm shooting some ideas at him
And he kind of just invited me to to join him and do something different from what he was already doing
And then that's when the kind of magnet money started
He was like, I want to give away a million dollars and he had the resources to do it because he had
you know a large reach and lots of
Exchanges that were willing to pay him monthly. They weren't like hey give this money away. He could have kept it for himself
You know, that could have been all his
But he was like, I want to do something different. I want to give it all away and he did which is noble as fuck
He brought me along. So we just started streaming every week
And we didn't really know what we were doing how to give it away
It's it sounds stupid, but it's really hard to give away money and money in an entertaining manner without it getting bored
We started just like coming up with games to play whether it was simple stuff like trivia or a Pictionary
It's a I came up with a game called Olympics where we make people if they're like in their house
We make them stand at their camera and then run and grab a few household items and the first one to bring it to the
So it was it was just like anything that we could come up with to try to give money away
And it worked. I mean we gave away a lot of money so far. We're really really close to a million and
Probably give it away get to a million in the next few weeks
We still give away money like I stream today and gave away. I think like 5,000 or something
We've had days where we've given away like 30 50 70 grand
But we also realize it's not super sustainable. So we're not just like giving away 10 grand every show now
We kind of just want to create an entertaining environment for people to fuck around watch listen
Kind of like a community for people
to go to and we've definitely helped a lot of people who needed it people who've been in tough spots with cancer and bills and
Homeless and so we it's not just random people. We're giving money to we also try and target
The people who could benefit from it and you know in any way possible. So that's that
Yeah, that's really cool. I feel like I didn't really do much in my life in terms of contributing to others to this point yet
But I feel like it's probably so much fun to see someone
So many people that you help, you know, and you see their reactions and you know, they probably give you updates or whatever
For Christmas we did something really cool. We put together a Christmas wish list that everybody could submit a form with proof
We wanted proof of like, you know where you may be struggling or what you need and we gave away
30 grand on Christmas or 40. I can't even remember but it was the list
We just read out the list and it was someone like some kid just wanted tuition
Some kid wanted a new backpack. Some person said I just want new Nike's so we bought him Nike's
Some guy needed eye surgery
So we pay for his eye surgery. Some guy had spinal issues and we helped him get you know therapy for his spinal issues
All that kind of stuff. So even if it was something small like hey
I just want a new pair of shoes. We kind of made it work to as much as like
Hey, I'm blind and need eye surgery, you know, I've got this bill or I need to pay rent whatever it was
So we kind of gave everybody a little a hand on Christmas, which was really fun
Yeah, that's awesome. You're like the mr. Beast of crypto butter
That was kind of the goal
And while onboarding people to crypto because we're giving away USDT and I everybody knows what USDT was
Yeah, would you say your audience is mostly crypto native or are they mostly like outsiders?
Mostly crypto narrative native. I would say still like 70% is crypto native, but I've done a lot of my personal friends
People start to and people will come to us and they go I saw you on Instagram or I saw you on on kick
And then we kind of get direct them to our website magnet money dot show and get them
Some insight on what we do and how crypto works and how we can help them
Well to all our listeners make sure to go check out first of all Ponzi's profile and give them a follow if you don't already
And check money magnets profile as well. It should be in your buyer, right?
Yeah, it is it is we have an Instagram account for it too
It's magnet money show and actually it rookie just told me to bring up a funny story one time. We had some guy on the show
He was a student Zimbabwe or a very very foreign country
He we were like, oh, you know, we gave him a few thousand dollars and we're like, what are you gonna do with it?
And he was like, oh I run a farm here and whatever country it was and he's like
You know, I've been trying to make some money to level up the infrastructure for it
And he's like walking around this dragon fruit farm in the middle of the desert. They're like, holy shit
So we sent him even more money house. It was hilarious
That's awesome. I was I saw a video
Like a video clip of your show with I think it was you trying to hook some girl to
Know I have an interesting question. So you're fully dogs, right?
Yeah, I mean like your face and you're yeah, I don't know if your name but what made you decide to die
Knew it was risky play because you know, I don't want people thinking that I have money and trying to pull some shit on me
but at the end of the day, I'm I
Don't know how to say this without sounding crazy, but like I'm really really really defensive and I
In a weird way tactical. I have a very interesting skill set. I have a lot of guns. I
Am very well secured both, you know physically and mentally and so so is my family in a sense
so I wasn't scared that somebody would try to pull something on me and if I ever was like
I'm always caring and as an American like I really do take advantage of my Second Amendment. So yeah
I'm very well protected in that sense. Like there's there's a gun in every single room in my house
There's one on the couch, you know my desk and my bathroom like I really am on my toes
And so is my significant other I've taught her how to use guns and and all that jazz
So I wasn't worried on that level
I think my op sec is still really clean
So yeah, I'm sure if you tried really hard, you can find me but you're not gonna want to find me at the end of the day
It's funny how different the perception of guns is between America and Europe because like I have a shotgun in my house
you're not you know, it's not normal to have a gun in Europe and
When I had a few friends over I showed them the gun because it's like a really old classic gun
It's really nice and they were all just like
You know, holy shit. You have a gun
You know, yeah and in America, it's like the most normal thing ever
Yeah, I always kind of put myself in dangerous spots as a kid growing up
You know, I I sold drugs and only the good kind
But I was always like I was always in a weird place, you know, I had guns since I was little I always I did some
tactical training growing up
never felt threatened physically
At the end of the day. I have like I said security cameras everywhere and everything I do is pretty well buttoned
But I thought that putting a face to my brand
Was kind of important for me to take it to the next level
Especially when I started streaming and like building a social media presence and I didn't want to have something where someone could threaten me
And be like, hey, this is your docs. I kind of wanted to beat the curve on that. Yeah
So I did I was like, all right. This is who I am. Do you want to try and talk to me? Good luck?
It's pretty interesting. I feel like the more
Time passes with the crypto space the more people are open to doxing
I don't know if it's just because most of those people are doing it because they're you know
About to quit the space or whatever like you see, you know, Donald for example
He doxxed his picture and he said that he did it just because he's not so active anymore and he wants to
You know do other stuff and whatever
But I feel like it's just because mainly, you know, five years ago the crypto space was more into like the whole
Privacy thing, you know crypto blockchains, whatever and now it's become more of a like crypto Twitter became more of a trader's place
And it's less about the privacy and the whole blockchain thing and whatever
Maybe maybe a box someday as well. We'll see and
At the end of the day if someone really wants to try to come after me, I got like 20 grand to my name
So I mean is it worth 20 grand?
Well, I want to touch about the private debt thing. So you're selling private jets, right?
Yeah, I've always been an aviation fanatic and I got handed a sick opportunity from some people I've known for a long time
And I ran with it. Yeah, I sell jets and I also do charters
So and do you have a license to find?
Yeah, I do. I also have a I have a license to fly. I was flying for a few years now and I have my own plane
That's awesome, how'd you get into like aviation
We're in the space and and I always looked up to people who are flying to me
It was like the the coolest thing ever you could just get in a plane and go fuck around do whatever you want
Be here be there see the world from the sky. So when I made money in
2020 I think it was I did a demo flight and I was like, holy shit. That was the coolest thing
I ever did I like went up in the sky and flew around I was like wow, that was fucking awesome
And then I was like, I'm getting my private my pilot's license
That's you know, I've decided it was expensive but I was like, it's this is what I love to do
you know people love to go on boats or fish or I was like, I'd love to be in the sky and
I did I got my license and then a year later I bought a plane and
Just flew around the country my girlfriend just go have lunch somewhere go do this go do that. It was
Probably the coolest thing I ever did for sure. I'll probably fly for the rest of my life
Yeah, that's awesome. How much does it cost to get like a pilot's license for like a small business and stuff
About three years ago four or five years ago. It was like anywhere between 8 to 12 grand now, it's like
15 to 17 grand takes about five months if you're on it, you know very consistently
Then once you have your license, you're kind of set then you can get different
Certificates on top of it so that you can operate
You know and in different manners
But at the end of the day if you really want your private pilots license in the US
I would say it's probably depending on the state somewhere between 10 to 17 grand
Well, there you have it guys and how much would you say it costs to get like a small airplane
It depends what you're looking for but you can really get into a plane for like 50 grand
It's gonna be old and it's gonna have two seats and it's gonna go really slow but you can
You know, you can buy anything but it will stay in the air yeah, it will stay in the air
Recently, I think it was like three months ago. I checked in the local airport for
Lessons and like the license part. I got it really into it just from watching this
this Instagram reel about this couple traveling in Europe or they're like tiny airplane and
And after I checked up online
How much does it cost to get a small airplane and I thought that they do sell them here in Europe for like 50 to 100 grand
I was like, that's a really really cool hobby
An expensive one, but but a cool one. So yeah, it's definitely not cheap fuels expensive
Maintenance is expensive. Everything's expensive and flying really
Well, it's maybe something. Oh
Before we move to the last question
I want to remind everyone if you have any questions click on the chat box on the bottom right corner
Leave any questions of Catherine Ponzi to myself and we'll touch them in a minute
So this is the last question
We asked all of our guests and each and everyone gives a very interesting interesting perspective
So I want to ask you what do you feel make what do you feel that making it is and do you feel like you've made it?
I used to think that making it was like a financial number and I was very wrong
Making it in my opinion is being able to do whatever you want
whenever you want without the consideration of others or even
Incentives mostly financial incentives, right? Because one day you have kids, you know, you still made it
But you got to attend to your kids. You can't just go fuck off for a few months and be back but
Being able to step into a restaurant
Have a wonderful dinner with your lovely significant other and not look at the bill when it comes or not
Not being concerned with making a year monthly rent or mortgage payment
That definition I have made it for now, right? You know, I can't just walk into Patek and say oh, what a beautiful watch
I'll take that for 120 grand
But for the finer things in life
I can go to a restaurant I can sit down and I can have dinner with my wife
I can you know, I can pay my my mortgage
If I see that those new shoes I can buy them so I don't have to consider those things anymore, which to me is is
Making it on some level. My what I really want to make it to is. Oh, well, I like that house on
The coast of California. Yeah, let's grab that one, too
But that's a bit exaggerated and
Outlandish that's really really pushing it to the next level in terms of comfort. I've made it. Yeah
The little things before bed anymore, I'm really really happy
I remember when I used to I used to drive back and forth to college and just filling my tank and my Nissan truck
You know driving with friends. Hey, can you throw me gas money?
Not having to ask my friends to throw me gas money is making it, you know
Not having to ask my friends to you know pitch in for this or that
You know just being able to cover those little things and not sweat it is making it
Yeah, it's a really good answer. I really agree with you. I feel like everyone has this transition of
Before you you know, you start with okay
It's this much money to make it and then at some point you're just like yeah, it's not really the money
It's like whatever's around it
Thanks to the money. So, you know, yeah and some people this is one of my favorite quotes of all time
But some people are so poor that all they have is money
Money is great and it's helpful. But at the end of the day, if you're not happy money's not gonna make you happier
It's you know, it's and I think I'll come to a point in my life
Where that I won't even think about money not because I have it just because I have all the things I want
I have you know my kids and my significant out there and I've got a home for us
and you know, there's a bed that they sleep in and they get to eat when we wake up in the morning and
That to me is ten times more important than a number on a screen
So don't get fixated on the number on the screen, you know, don't get fixated on a net worth
get fit get fixated on health and and and
friends and family and and comfort and sleep at night and the little things they really be grateful for those things because
Yeah, very very well fun man really agree with you
Well, we can go over to questions now
We have small news asking has Ponzi ever traded well-flined
Dude, actually, yeah, and I have a photo. I
Like you know because there's a certain altitude where you still get cell phone service and I was flying at them
I would make sure that I would fly at the right altitude so that I could still get service and check on my position
One time I got liquidated on a lesson
While I was flying my my and in a plane with the school and an instructor
I was doing my first like what's considered a cross country
It's flying like a hundred miles or 50 miles or whatever it was and I got liquidated as we were taking off
And I just tried to pull the instructor. I was like buddy. I I'm gonna have to stare my phone for a little bit like I
Just lost, you know a lot of money and I just he was like, alright bet
And he just flew the whole way there while I was trying to figure out what was happening
Yeah, we're just living from liquidation to liquidation
Say gotten asked me, but I want to ask you. What do you think about it?
Do you think doing to X leverage worth it or really spot is?
Think there's a specific environment at which you put on leverage and that's normally at the the sign of a reversal of a bear market or
The other environment in which you put on leverage in my opinion is the break of an all-time high
Price discovery is a very fascinating subject because
it will go further than you expect and
Those two points are a place where you can put on a 2x leverage
Putting on leverage is a good idea for a long time frame
It's like my buddy actually is IRL buddy is spot crypto exposure. I've been advising him on it for a long time
He's like dude. I want to put on leverage
I was like we're not putting on leverage here at 50,000 for you know, a few reasons one
We're so close to all-time high if we for some reason reject off of it
we're gonna see some really gross reactions and leverage will you know, it will increase the rate at which you're losing your money and
But if we break all-time high and we're trending well
I'll help you put on up to 2x leverage so that you can really capture that price discovery and
that was kind of like my advice to someone who hasn't put on leverage before but
It's really easy to get hooked to leverage because of how quickly you can make money. Just remember it
You can lose money just as quick
Exactly. I feel like everyone focuses on the positive result side of leverage. Nobody really thinks of the negative side
Like you said people will hold their bag and it goes down 20% and they're you know
They're unable to just close the position even if it's spot and just you know, say, okay
I lost 20% but then they even do it on 2x and suddenly 40% half of your portfolio is gone
Yeah, and if you're frozen in that position as well, it's it's not gonna end well
We have been asking what is your style of trading swings scouts and do you have a special strategy?
Or do you like more price action trader with clean charts and SR levels?
That goes back to being able to adapt to an environment
You know, where do you do best? It's really under important to understand that there was a point
Momentum trader and and trending environments like this. I was doing great
But I I adapt very well and I have different strategies for different environments
Beta narratives, so I'm looking for a high beta in the AI narrative and I'm putting on smaller position sizes
With a little bit of leverage and letting those ride like world coin
Fucking render is a great play right now renders in price discovery
So I'm holding render spot slightly leveraged as well and just letting it go
And then how I'll utilize that is if it if it turns around on me, I'll close the leverage
Break even or I'll try to minimize the loss on it
And if it goes lower then I'll lever back up and keep it going and then most of the profit I make
I'll rotate back into spot and let that sit but in terms of
Figuring out my strategy is it's always changing like when FTX had those volatility products
I was trading move really well. I found an edge and trading move right before
You know speeches or CPI or this or that that product is gone
It wasn't really liquid, but it was definitely an edge where you could make some money every, you know
Once every two was basically free money every day. Yeah, it was sick
That was a sick one and too many people figured that out and so it stopped being so great
It's funny cuz there are so many people who are taking advantage of move contracts and for a long time
I remember we were thinking
With a bunch of friends like we were talking about dude. Everyone is using like everyone has this edge
Everyone is milking it like move contract who is losing and now we know that it was FTX
Well, that's pretty much it man, thank you so much for coming it's been a great conversation
I feel like everyone learned a lot and yeah, thank you a lot for sharing everything with us, man
Yeah, absolutely, brother. I had a ball. I love talking about this shit
Yeah, that's awesome. Well everyone make sure to give him Ponzi a follow again. Check out
Maybe I'll win some free money
And yeah, that's pretty much it make sure to check my profile and the IDEX profile on Monday
we will have notes summarized notes from this show for all the lazy guys are the late guys and
The show is recorded. So if you joined us late, you can always listen back to it
Yeah, that's pretty much it Ponzi. Thank you so much again everyone. Thank you for coming
Have a great night and we'll see you guys on the next episode