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Spill The Alpha: Talking Past & Future w/ The OG @notsofast
Recorded: Aug. 21, 2025 Duration: 1:32:40Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. hey hey what's up man hey how's it going all good all good how's our sound uh sounds good
you sound good can you hear me yeah yeah all right perfect can you give it a couple of minutes for
everyone to tune in how's your day man is it uh morning for you or like uh yeah yeah it's morning
uh nice good morning pretty good morning how about how about you where uh what what time zone
i'm in south europe in centrally like central south, so it's like... Oh, cool. Your day is mostly over.
Yeah, pretty much.
I'll sit on the PC for like two or three more hours,
and I'll probably lay low a little bit.
Yeah.
The daily grind is real in the current market.
Got to be glued.
Yeah, man.
No, I kind of try to force myself into having like a time of
the day where i just cut off uh everything from the pc just because you know i i've experienced
those those you know times where you're like 14 16 hours a day on the pc and i kind of sick
of it i don't want to go back to it so yeah, it's not good for you. I get like, not like a headache behind my eyes,
but just like, it feels like I can't focus on anything other than a screen
and the rest of the world is blurry when I look away.
When I get to that point, I feel like real bad
and I got to like disconnect, not look at any screens for like a full 24
to kind of bring back the, get rid of the screen myopia
yeah it's super hard and i mean it happened like the thing with me is when i was you know just
locked into the screen just you know shit coins charts whatever yeah i i would totally put aside
my phone you know i wouldn't check like uh you know messages
from like friends and family and stuff like that and then i end up having is that i'm sitting on
a pc for like five hours straight and then i'll leave the leave it to go smoke or have like a 20
minutes break and i'm on my phone this whole time and i was like okay this is like so fucked up uh-huh it totally is it totally is but yeah um all right let me see
all right i think we can just jump right into it uh well first of all uh welcome to all of
our listeners to the 19th episode season two of spill the alpha today we have not so fast with
us should i call you not so fast or yeah
all right awesome so yeah if you guys uh don't follow not so fast or don't know him um he's one
of the ogs has been like you're one of the few names that every single time you know i hear
other like more like known ogs like kobe and like nomad or stuff like that talking or like
writing something you're one of the few
names that always pop up like people are oh yeah back in the day when we were like me not so fast
and like other people um so it's really awesome to have you on man thanks thanks a lot for coming
and if you guys don't follow us so fast make sure to to give him a follow and create addition to
your timeline thank you for the intro. Yeah.
And yeah, I'm sure you guys will enjoy this episode, hopefully.
And if you guys have at any moment, any questions, anything you want to talk about, anything you want us to talk about, you can click on the bottom right corner.
There's like a chat box icon and you can leave any questions you have and we'll touch them towards the end of the episode.
And yeah, before we jump into chatting about everything, huge thanks to kuma for hosting these spaces for making them happen now live with up to 50x leverage we're
currently giving out 7 500 every single week in rewards um so if you want to take a piece of that
pie make sure to check that out um well notes fest again thank you so much for coming man
and i want to start with asking a
little bit about your background because i don't know anything i don't really know much about you
so tell us a little bit about your background how did you get into crypto okay so um
it all starts with me being um kind of a high risk personality and
a fuck up
I had to start
trading
from a prop firm
in Canada
we would just scalp the New York Stock Exchange
for like
if you can flip
1000 shares of something for a penny more than you bought it for, you would make $10 minus fees.
So I was just part of a group of a bunch of early 20s meatheads doing that.
And I got pretty good at it because it was bonehead easy.
It was like picking free money up off the floor.
So I kind of went out on my own rather than doing prop once I'd built up a bunch of
money. I borrowed some money from my family to add to the bankroll and I did pretty good for a while
at home. And then the New York Stock Exchange went to a hybrid model, which meant that there
wasn't just an actual person processing trades and giving price improvement to your ad liquidity
orders anymore.
So you didn't make the spread anymore, just bots banned us all out. So I went from doing really great to doing really badly and losing all my money and all my family's money.
So I was kind of negative net worth for a while. And I went back to the original thing that was
working, which I was doing like contracting work, like construction and stuff. And I went back to the original thing that was working, which I was doing like
contracting work, like construction and stuff. So I did my own little construction company and I was
kind of barely making money, but I had this warehouse with free electricity and I got into
Dogecoin, even though I'd known about Bitcoin, but I was sort of warned off of it, that it was
never going to work. And so I didn't really, I didn't sort of warned off it, that it was, uh, never going to work.
And so I didn't really, I didn't really get involved with it, even though I knew about it since about 2011, but, uh, end of 2013, um, I started mining Dogecoin and I maxed
out a credit card, whatever was left on it to buy a GPU and, uh, was mining.
GPU and was mining and I was really enjoying doing that.
And I was really enjoying doing that.
Dogecoin was kind of like the,
a really important way for people to not take cryptocurrency too seriously or
like a big weird libertarian,
the way kind of Bitcoiners were at the time.
So it was,
it was cool.
Like you were treating it as sort of like money,
but not really money.
There was no way to like cash it as sort of like money, but not really money. There was no way to cash it out other than selling Dogecoin on eBay in lots. But you could mine it. And I just figured, okay, well, this is something I can do. I have this electricity included warehouse for my business. Maybe I'll try and find some like discount miners and stuff. And I'll,
I'll just mine Dogecoin.
Then I eventually ended up like realizing,
okay,
well actually it's a good,
it's good to like hold some Bitcoin as well.
Oh wow.
There's new things to mine that are getting released on Bitcoin talk all the
time.
Well,
if you're first,
you get in cheaper than everybody else.
And then eventually like you
can if something gets listed on an exchange you can sell it so um i became slightly better known
for just being active and uh i started posting like my my mining plays or like i would rent other
people's rigs to mine and posting them to Twitter.
And, you know, when this is back in a time, 2014, when it wasn't really real money, nothing was
really considered real money and everything was based in Bitcoin, which is slightly more real
money, but still nobody really considered it real money. So the high multiple low risk plays that you could earn had a caveat attached to them
that was okay like you spent half a bitcoin renting rigs to make 26 bitcoins but you know
good luck cashing that out without a criminal investigation being opened into you type of
thing right so uh everybody at the time was just kind of grinding to increase their bitcoin balance
more or less and if you were a long-term believer in bitcoin then that's what you wanted to do
um and then as it got a little more popular over over time um know, people who were successful at doing the low risk, high return
type of thing that was involved with speculative crypto mining became better and better known.
And then you have 2017, where it was the first retail rush in with ICOs and the other stuff.
And everything that all these speculative miners had been mining for the past
three or four years suddenly became just the only supply available for these new entrants to buy.
So everybody wanted what I had bags of. And kind of everybody who'd been around became main
characters with just crypto to sell to people that wanted it was wild it was uh
unprecedented and will probably never happen again that way it sounds like a fun thing to happen to
you everybody wants your bags yeah it's the dream right but uh at the time like um you could hardly
believe what was going on like i keep all my stuff as i always have in an
offline spreadsheet and i would just update it with with the value of stuff and i couldn't
i couldn't believe it happened so quickly that it didn't feel real
um and i didn't i didn't ever take any money out of crypto for the longest time i would only put
like mining in and i would if i did cash jobs with my business, I'd buy some bitcoins with it.
And I still didn't believe it.
I was like, I was like afraid to take any money out because that that's how it was.
I didn't want to draw any attention to myself.
I was like super scared for OPSEC reasons.
yeah it was a very weird time I mean this is probably was back in the day where if you would
Yeah, it was a very weird time.
you know catch anything in your bank instantly like throws every single dollar you have for
months and like started asking questions and stuff like that oh yeah like it was it was so weird
um just the the interface we take for granted right now that makes it so easy, like Coinbase
and stuff, that didn't exist. There were times when I first started spending Bitcoin, the only
way to do it for a few months at least was to like, I could pay someone in Bitcoin to make a
payment on my credit card. So I would pay them $5,000 worth of
Bitcoin and they would make a $3,500 payment on my credit card. So like that's a 30% rake. And
that was the only way that I in Canada could like go in the reverse direction for a while.
So that person made a good chunk of change off me because there was no other
options. That's what it was.
Yeah. I mean, it's kind of crazy how you mentioned how, you know,
back in the day stacking Bitcoin was the only way people saw the space ad.
Like people were trading altcoins with the goal of having more Bitcoin.
And even I remember
back in the day when I you know when I started dealing with centralized exchanges and stuff like
that um even back in 2016-17 most of them had your balance shown in Bitcoin um that's not the case
anymore like back in the day obviously charts of altcoins everything was traded against BTC and
there were like a few spot pairs against the dollar but most of them were against bitcoin and only i feel like only like 2019 2020 it started becoming
like super popular right like 2018 maybe yeah and um do you feel it's a positive or a negative
uh there are positive and negative aspects so So let's start with the negatives.
Basing in Bitcoin was good because for as long as Bitcoin wasn't really considered like a real valid asset by the world at large,
because it meant that you would have higher upside volatility.
People would be speculating using Bitcoin that whatever they were buying with the Bitcoin
would go up more than Bitcoin.
You would kind of solve for the common denominator of dollars because they weren't really real
because they weren't really real and it was hard to cash out to them anyway.
and it was hard to cash out to them anyway.
So you could have these other tokens be really upside,
have high upside volatility compared to Bitcoin.
And as stable coins proliferated and legacy finance interfaced better,
kind of, I'd like to use coinbase as the example where they just
made it easy for most people relatively easy for most people to onboard dollars and offboard
dollars into the system suddenly everything was based in dollars because people had to like report
taxes and they had to like have a common base for everything. So this did a lot.
It dampened the upside volatility and a little bit the downside volatility,
but dampening the upside volatility versus Bitcoin
really lowered the risk profile
of kind of all non-Bitcoin cryptos equally. Because before, like,
you could have something go to zero versus Bitcoin, but you were looking, like, you wouldn't
take a 2x versus your Bitcoin, you would try to hold up for more, you know, a 2x versus your
Bitcoin was just a, just a reload of the stack, and it would happen fairly often. But now, if you
can take a 2x against Bitcoin, even after like a couple months,
you know, you're deeply, deeply, deeply outperforming the market because everything's
based in dollars. And now when something goes to zero and your upside isn't that big versus dollars,
like the capital is getting hurt a lot more. So the widening of the bandwidth of flow in and out has been greatly ameliorated by the dollarization basis of all of crypto.
And that is responsible for its growth, kind of as more people can use it, base in dollars.
But the upside volatility has been greatly reduced as we no longer base in bitcoin but we
should mentally be basing in bitcoin because if what you're doing is not outpacing what you could
be doing by just buying bitcoin and holding it and stepping away from the computer and touching grass
20 most of your 24 hours of a day um that's what you should be doing yeah 100 i always say that
like you should be denominating your
your portfolio in bitcoin i get it if you don't look at the you know alt btc charts sure because
like if you're trading perps it doesn't really matter that much because you're just taking
trades that's all they are yeah but at the end of the year if you haven't you know if you started
the year with a certain amount of bitcoin you're ending the year with more dollars, but less Bitcoin, then you fucked up. Yeah, yeah. Like you could have saved yourself all of that
risk and all of that chart eyeballing to have just bought Bitcoin. So that's an important thing.
And it's more important for traders because you don't just have to be a profitable trader in
dollars. Like you have to be profitable versus the other things
that you could so easily be doing.
Like it's a big opportunity cost of time
that I don't think a lot of people realize.
Yeah, it's super easy to miss,
especially if you just don't follow your BTC stack value at all.
Oh, 100.
Like the number of BTC you have.
Yeah.
But I was wondering at what point in your
the beginning of your journey um you know at what point did you feel like you're starting to get the
hang of things and just you know was there like a moment where you told yourself okay this is like
what i'm gonna be doing for a living this is like the future of my life um yeah that's a good question. Like there are a few, it's mostly, it was mostly gradual over years. Um, definitely some specific points are like during like 2017, when I realized that like a, an old bag that was on a hard drive left in a locker of some super insecure place where shit was getting stolen all the time had like a ridiculous amount of value on it and i had to like conduct a rescue operation
um where i found like someone had stolen my uh 200 drill from that locker but not the old
shitty computer with a hard drive with much much much much much more value on it than that
i rescued that like that probably he would have
just like you know wiped that bc and try to sell it oh my god like it was not unfortunately all the
surplus garbage rig stuff that i was using was old and dusty and shitty looking and it just looked
like nobody would ever want it except for scrap um so i uh, I was protected that way by stuff, not looking valuable. Uh, other,
other times would be like, um, when, uh, just late 2017, I guess. Um, I felt like I was kind
of the main character on Twitter and I was trying to like talk shit about all these scam things that were pumping like
Denticoin in the top 100 and like some other so yeah yeah yeah like so much other bullshit I was
like why is all this other stuff in with like the true actual real cryptocurrencies that I've been
like looking at like this is not good this isn isn't right. Something's going to like unwind. It felt bad. Let's try to be the canary in the coal mine for that a little bit, I guess.
And like all the proponents of that kind of thing would attack me back on Twitter. And it was a
weird time. And then another time, early in 2017, I was able to hire a manager to take over running
like the, the contracting business that I was running.
And that felt like that felt like not really like making it,
but just like,
Holy shit.
You know,
I can kind of,
I can kind of free up more of my time.
Cause before that I was working like 12,
14 hours a day as a contractor.
And then,
you know,
on Twitter half the time and like yeah not really sleeping
very much just like getting up in the middle of the night to reset a rig that went down type of
thing like i was on the grind all the time so uh you can call it like you can call it semi
retirement except it wasn't really retirement i just stopped working 20 hours a day yeah that's
awesome dude i never got into mining and stuff like, but I've seen a couple of mining rigs
and it always looked like such a fun thing to do.
Even if, like I was thinking about it,
just, you know, wanting to start up a small rig,
even if I don't make any money,
just like for the fun of it.
But yeah, never got to that.
Yeah, yeah.
It's, the game grew to an industrial scale.
And when it did that,
my interest just fell off a cliff, man.
Like it was more fun when it felt like it was, holy cow, I got this gaming rig that I spent a bunch of money on.
I can actually make money of this.
Like I can mine two ethereums a day with my GPU that like, that's like $4, man.
Like that's awesome.
That part of it was fun.
That was probably the most fun
looking back on it
was when you could figure out
that there was money
inside your computer
and just had to like
open an Ethereum mining program
to get it out.
Yeah, the whole idea of like mining
where you just get tokens
at the end of the day
is really, really cool.
Like no, you know,
no price basis.
Like obviously, you know, paper, basis, like obviously no paper, electricity,
the rig itself and stuff like that.
But basically you get free tokens.
That's like really awesome.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I was always into like the tax arbitrage too.
It's just like, oh shit,
I spent a bunch of electricity running my business.
But you know, where did these tokens come from?
Like the government doesn't know type of thing.
Yeah.
Can you share any significant mistakes
or just general challenges and issues
that you've encountered in your early days?
Like, just whether if it's, you know,
just market-related or trading-related,
whatever like that, and how did you overcome them?
Yeah, there's some major categories of mistakes.
I've eaten a lot of shit.
Security was one thing.
Speculating as I was, I installed drainers by accident on my computer with a bunch of hot wallets that I left open while on vacation.
And all my Bitcoin and Dogecoin and a bunch of other stuff that eventually went to zero.
Oh, and a dash got drained while I was gone.
That was a mistake.
And so that type of thing taught me a lot of offset compartmentalization,
though I would still get hit every so often.
You have to really be mindful of cold walleting all non-active funds and getting a really secure multi-sig protocol, getting set up for that type of thing.
But you need active hot funds to be able to make money.
So there's a trade-off there that you always have to be mindful of. I squandered a lot of the wealth I had inadvertently windfalled in the 2017 retail run-up
by trying to be the holder of last resort for too many things.
Thinking that, well, as long as these don't go to zero and the chain doesn't die,
don't go to zero and the chain doesn't die. Like there'll be a resurgence of all this stuff.
there'll be a resurgence of all this stuff.
But what I didn't, uh, what I didn't foresee was the possibility of rotation to new technology.
I just figured like these existing chains will always be around, but just turned out that
liquidity mattered more. So once, uh, people had a bias towards tokens, once DEX trading became a thing, and now like, here's a really good example.
There's a new Cabal Solana token, semi-Cabal, called Troll, the ticker T-R-O-L-L, and pumped to like $200 million market cap. There's an old proof of work troll coin from about 11
years ago that I was always a big champion of because he could like tip people on Twitter with
it. And there was like a hosted wallet backend at trollcoin.com for that. So that's like got way
better provenance. It's way cooler, but it has no access to liquidity. Like it's an old proof of work slash proof of stake coin where you have to download your own wallet that isn't phantom.
And it's not compatible with any of this stuff.
And even wrapping it to Solana, if you could, would be like a chore.
and liquidity and then like the byproduct of liquidity, which is price-based attention,
became much more highly valued than like any kind of micro utility, like tipping on Twitter and
Twitch and all that stuff. Even though it's exact same ticker and arguably better provenance. So
that's an interesting example of how things have changed. And I made a mistake because I didn't always change with the times.
I felt like, okay, I got to buckle down and be the holder of last resort
for some of these kinds of things so that they will survive.
Like, be the Michael Saylor.
And it turns out you can't usually do that.
You need to place all your bets in one thing rather than lots.
So I had a lot of bags go to zero.
If you keep raising billions every single week, then you can do it.
Yeah.
I did not have the ability to just issue debt to other people
and then buy my own bags of it.
I wish I did.
That would have been awesome.
We'd probably see a lot more old-school chainstall around
if I had the ability to do that i still think i'm pretty sure i still have a bag of dragon
chain somewhere it's one of the last things i remember from 2017 oh man they try to make like
a tiny comeback but they were just lost in the noise i saw they were shit posting a couple of
weeks ago. Yeah.
Some of these older projects, they try to make a dent in the current paradigm.
Like, they're just lost, man.
They have nothing.
Yeah.
I mean, like you mentioned,
things are just pretty much changed
and everything is very, very different.
It's like how i remember i listened to
the podcast of kobe with ledger uh where kobe was like talking about the early days and how like
like you mentioned about like the tech and stuff like that so he was saying like i saw this coin
and it said that it has like not just one like uh mechanism like bitcoin but it has like 12 and he was like oh this is this is
the shit this is the future but no apparently nobody gives a fuck about those things yeah i
think that was verge um that he was talking about one thing i love about kobe is um he's always been able to see past the bullshit and articulate the clarity of what's actually
behind all this stuff. Whereas I was more like always looking through stuff with rose-colored
glasses. And so I'd see Verge and be like, whoa, there's six different proof of work algorithms
mining this. This is so much harder to attack. I love this, man.
That's really cool.
And he can break it down as just like,
everything releases in altcoin to Bitcoin is some tiny tweak,
which is most of the time a gimmick,
but we have to assess each of those gimmicks comparatively
if they add any value.
And most of them don't, other than speculation.
And if there's enough liquidity then maybe that
can be a good thing but um yeah no i've i've learned uh i've learned a lot from his ability to
look at things with the clearest possible eyes and uh see passing over the bullshit without the
smell getting to him and uh that's something i really respect about him yeah dude if i would
be back then in the day i would definitely buy this bullshit of like six different hashing
algorithms holy shit um i was wondering about like uh you know like i just mentioned how things are
changing so you know i'm pretty sure that your strategies did evolve in some way
over time um or not necessarily your strategies but just your way of thinking and seeing things
but are there any specific methodologies or tools and just the way you see things that you utilize
now that you didn't in the past yeah um i think a lot of people are even doing this particular practice better than I am to a degree.
But I would say that when I wasn't doing so well and I stepped back and took a look at my sort of skill set,
I realized that I have a good knack for being early to something enough where there's like a barrier to entry of some kind, especially if it's technical.
I get in there and figure it out anyway.
And if it catches on, then I have all this upside because the barriers get broken down.
So like mining was one of those things where if you couldn't figure out how to mine, you had to buy, had to buy your
tokens from me. Right. And, uh, if you, um, couldn't figure out how to inscribe to ordinals,
you would get me to do it. And I would pay you. So like that, that's another example of where I
was like, Oh, wow. I have all this technical know-how that I can leverage into being early to something. And maybe if it catches on, then that would be really cool. So I, I try to stay on frontiers. DeFi I missed, I faded, and it was really stupid of me because it was kind of my bag.
Some of the more esoteric financial concepts though,
kind of, they don't stick to my brain very well.
So like the algo stables era,
I tried to understand and play them properly,
but I would just get rinsed because I didn't,
I couldn't assess like where something was in a cycle.
So I mostly stayed back from that.
But like NFTs, I instantly grokked
and kind of played that meta correctly
after being late to DeFi.
So just kind of being on the frontier
and leaning into technical speed bumps that other people aren't.
But I think this is pretty popular a mindset, like it's well-known.
And yet, you know, do difficult things when other people aren't doing
them because if it catches on and you or someone else are making ways, building ways to access
everything more easily, you'll be in a position to kind of recoup the benefits from that in terms
of profit or something else yeah yeah 100 like if something
is hard to do there there's an edge in it that you can use like the fact that it's hard to do
unless people are able to you know or just want to put the effort of learning it yeah that's
something massive but also exactly there's a systemic risk there um to yeah to pick the right difficult things to do, right? Like foresee them getting easier
with specific simple changes
or else you might just do a difficult thing
that stays difficult
and it doesn't become valid or popular or validated, right?
Yeah, you should also ask yourself,
like, why is it difficult?
Like, why are not more people doing this?
And like, you know, what's the reason behind it?
Is it just because people are lazy or is there like you know something i can see in the future with
this yeah but also like you mentioned uh it's like how you said where you know you looked into
algo stable coins and you you didn't really get it and you just moved on to the next thing like
nfts and you just got on that wave i think it's a really important skill to just be able to look at something,
try to like break it down,
realize you're not able to and just move on and not like get too hanged on it
or something.
Cause, cause then you just, you know,
you're just going to miss everything else while, you know,
breaking your head against the wall, doing nothing pretty much.
Yeah, it's true. And it's okay to miss things.
FOMO is like one of those things in crypto that everybody has to an extent.
You kind of have to indulge that a little bit to know what's good
or where the volume is, where the hot ball of money is going.
You have to tap into your inner FOMO in order to be locked into that.
your inner FOMO in order to be locked into that. And I think the challenge with this current meta is
attention drives so much of the liquidity and there are really all that many barriers because
liquidity and attention are so easy to access that everyone's kind of playing the same
that everyone's kind of playing the same attention game and instantaneity game.
And so the only alpha beyond that is farming all those honest players
with like bundling stuff or like cabaling stuff that grabs and hogs attention,
like with Trump or the Yeezy token that dropped yesterday
like uh it really is um the the game has been streamlined and guardrailed so much
that until there's a massive meta shift there won't be that sort of systemic roadblock that
you can sidestep and be early to anything anymore yeah yeah i was talking
about it a couple of i think it was like a month ago or something where nowadays i don't know well
at least from my point of view of somebody who's not really into you know not crazy on chain uh
you know the biggest thing i do on chain is trade on perdexes but um it's it it just seems to me that because i remember
back in 2017 like i remember it very vividly where like we had just like an inch of kind of
defy type thing you know and me and friends we were looking on like how do you even create a coin
and like how do you make it there was it was so complicated it was so hard you had to really
understand what you're
doing to make coin and even back in the at the beginning of the d5 bubble in 2020 it was still
not super easy like you know there were some tools that allowed you to do it in a much easier way but
it was still pretty you know complex and nowadays you just connect your wallet you need like 0.002 dollars and that's it you can
launch whatever you want and you know it's been i don't know like me seeing all those celebs
making those coins joining defy and like yeah we're gonna like you know fuck the dollar fuck
processing companies because like i looked at the yeezy website and i was like yeah we don't need those companies like now you can pay on my website with these tokens i hate it so much
yeah it's um it's like an intellectual barrier has been removed and and just exactly it's been
totally commercialized and you know you can compare it to like what you had to know to like play a computer game that was fun in like the 1980s where you'd have to like go to a command line and find the executable of the game and then type'd be playing a game. You'd have to know how to do that and turn a computer on and wait for it to boot up
or something like that if you were alive long ago.
And now you just whip out your phone
and instantly you're playing the game that you were playing
like 20 minutes ago.
You open Netflix and you can play GTA through Netflix.
Oh my gosh.
Democratization and facility of access is is good for growth but then you get
the saturation stage and uh definitely like the the token creation meta is at a saturation point
right now i mean the marginal value of any new token is zero unless there's some kind of
attention premium that you can put on it. And that obviously, it's probably just going to be
the way things are now. But going forward, like you just won't bother launching a token unless
you have some kind of specific purpose or long term sustainable reason for people to pay attention to it.
And that's already that's kind of always been happening.
But the flood of launching a token for its own sake and trying to like pump it, that's to a lot of people.
I'm sure that's already gotten boring, was boring probably a year ago or even five years ago
um the easier it gets uh the more the novelty of it wears off and then then like the real
shit can actually begin uh sometimes it takes a bear market to keep people from doing that which
i hope doesn't come soon but yeah hopefully not soon but hopefully someday to clean all this up i mean because you
know it's like it kind of feels like how the demographic of token launching like talking
launchers changed because like if you would go seven years back and like one of your friends
is like yo dude i made a token you're like holy that's so dope how'd you like what are we gonna
do with it let's build
something around it and now there's like it's like one of your friends is like yo i made a token
you're like are you fucking stupid why would you do that yeah it would be like yo my friend this
is my friend he has his own cryptocurrency man whoa why would you do that yeah and you know i was so afraid to like launch my own token for so long
um i just there was a taboo against it and like it was not worth the trouble
um or the scrutiny or whatever uh for so long but um i like i i'm i'm very pumped out fun aligned
and uh last year i found the opportunity to do it. So I just did my own token
to sort of drive home the lesson to myself that there are no taboos anymore. As long as I'm not
an extractive dickhead about it. Um, and I do a cool shit and I show that I'm not like, um,
leaving, um, the token will like more or less prosper so i kind of have that little thing
going on right now where all i do is like get some extra solana and i just buy my own token
and sometimes i give some away and everything uh like it's fun it's like exposure it uh lets me
like have something to talk about when i don't have anything to talk about and i can like stream on pump.fun uh opening magic the gathering cards and uh it's like it's like an extra little side
hobby and uh it doesn't even like monetize attention or relationships or the network at all but
or the network at all, but it is cool to have people sort of invested in a proxy way to me
just continuing to do what I've always done, which is be around, not be an asshole.
So that part of it, that part of it, I feel, I hope is like a model for how people should do things if they
feel like it yeah 100 i just feel like not a lot of people have this you know ability to constrain
yourself from taking profit and just dumping on everyone which is you know that's all you need to
do you need to like you know are you doing this for the money or not?
It's a very honest question you should be asking yourself.
And I feel like if you have a bunch of followers,
it makes sense to realize it with yourself.
And if the answer is not,
then you can probably do whatever the fuck you want.
And as long as nobody gets hurt, you're good.
Yeah, that's the challenging thing, I guess.
You see like with the rise of like influencers,
there's a playbook and you're supposed to develop attention and develop
committed attention. And then it's like right there,
it's like step three call to action.
And the action is usually like spend money on this and like that's
become acceptable in this sort of influencer paradigm like yeah
you run an ad for whatever and it's a sponsorship and it's fine or you get people to start paying
now for extra access or whatever and that's considered fine um i guess it really
comes down to what you believe is an extractive level and what you believe is like fair value
level and it's there's no there's was wondering what are your ways of just managing
the you know the psychological aspect of this whole space um you know just dealing with the
stress maintaining discipline during volatile times or just you know challenging periods because
you've been through what like four like four cycles now, right?
I guess, yeah.
Yeah.
So how do you handle all of that?
I guess there's a few ways.
Because my personal methodology was always to identify periods
of well outsized risk versus return. What I mean by that
is I could put in a small amount of risk and I'd have a really good chance of identifying a meta
where I'm probably going to make 2x or better on that risk. So I only need, and possibly I can
print like 10x or 20Xs on something.
And my downside risk is just that small amount going to zero.
Identifying what my R is, which is just my per trade amount of value to put at risk.
And rough time to be in like a cut scratch for roughly break even, take a 2X off the table just to keep capital up.
Or this is actually
going to run take more or it goes to zero oopsie um that type of thing i guess uh
has been the number one way i keep peace of mind by not over risking to anything too much
and right sizing all bets and knowing when to cut.
So people would laugh at how small my R is right now. And I don't even size into anything because
I'm just really in capital protection mode most of the time.
And also diversification, right?
Like you have to take stuff off the table in order to sleep at night and go through macro cyclical downturns.
You have to make sure your other stuff is set.
So like I don't have an extravagant lifestyle.
don't have an extravagant lifestyle. I own the place where I live. Um, I'm, I've diversified
I own the place where I live.
into like, you know, I have some savings to, to live off of, uh, I got a bunch of magic cards I
can sell if I get in a pinch. Um, that type of thing, you gotta, you gotta not be all in the
game. And I know for younger people, younger people that don't have capitalization yet,
that's a lot harder to do when like your bankroll is everything and it's not huge. And I would say
have a job that pays you, spend less than you earn, and you'll be able to trade at-risk funds
with a much clearer head.
You don't need to do it full-time because nobody does.
Sitting on your hands is a really important skill to learn.
I do it by playing Magic cards and playing games like Parallel and stuff.
When I've identified that I'm not able to earn easy two Xs in a current meta,
the better thing for me to do,
knowing my skillset is to not do nothing at all,
fuck off and protect capital.
And then when,
you know,
keep an eye on things.
And then when it is easy to make a two X or better in a certain meta that I
understand,
well,
then I lock right the fuck in.
Yeah. That's super important like knowing when to just stay the out and not to you know not go crazy is massive like i feel like having this patience and
you know just again it comes back to just being honest with yourself saying okay this is not my
market like i see you know you and i get it it's hard because
you open twitter and you see every like every fucking day every single condition you have
you'll see posts on twitter of people like 500 pnl and whatever oh yeah um and it's kind of hard to
just you know ignore it and tell yourself okay this is not my time i shouldn't be trading take like the the feet of the the gas pedal
um but it that's just the way it is that's that's really just the way it is and like you know it's
just a part of people sharing on twitter just their wins and never any losses oh yeah you're
totally right like twitter is pnl instagram it's not real life. Um, people are, people are JavaScript
doctoring, phantom wallet balances all the time. Even if they're not, you're going to see and
remember where people were lucky because nobody talks about when they ate shit or lost it all.
I mean, I try to just to present like my own balance view and hold myself accountable to when I fucked up.
Um, but even so, like I don't share all my losses and, uh, I, I guess for the past few months, I haven't had any like really big, ridiculous wins or anything like that.
Um, cause I'm not super good at this current meta where, um um runners don't run and everything's really extractive you
know i'm a better better at believing for a little bit longer term and uh the market is not the market
is just extracting from believers at the moment because the uh the meta is so close to solved
at this juncture so uh i'm kind of hanging back and um you're cautiously optimistic
yeah cautiously optimistic well things things are turning kind of back towards the macro cycle like
with bitcoin at a new recent all-time high and then a pullback from that like uh that's that's
sort of where the capital b belief is right now even if it's happening in a very silly way with
treasury companies um that is still that is still like a large chunk of the current meta and um we
have to be paying more attention to that than like the going on in other places yeah it's gonna be
it's gonna be such an interesting bear market like I'm not saying that we're at the start of it, obviously.
I think there's still a lot of time.
But when it does come, I think it's going to be really interesting
to see how those companies are managing those treasuries that they've built.
Oh, yeah.
All those, like, debts and everything.
It's going to be, I don't know.
This might just be me being, like, you of like doomish sometimes but i think i don't
know i think those treasuries are gonna be sold at huge discounts oh bro i totally agree and then
like the spot prices are gonna fall to be in line with those which is also funny i saw a really good
post today and it got me thinking like um the only way for things to sort of propagate through the unwind is activist shareholders are
going to have to get in there and like sue people with majority shares like Michael Saylor
to force a redistribution of the assets. So how awesome would it be if you bought a bunch of
shares of MicroStrategy and then got in on like the class action lawsuit to force redistro
and then he just had to send all this bitcoin to shareholders spot wallets like forced legal
redistribution that might be the way to buy the bottom of this next down cycle and uh add a funny
troll idea that's that makes a lot of sense yeah sense. Yeah, you'll be able to do it much more
easily once a precedent is set with a
smaller treasury company, and then you'll be
left holding some zeroed out
bags.
People are going to get mad, but
buying the
bottom of Fartcoin this way is probably
not as good a bet as buying the bottom
of Ethereum or Bitcoin this way.
But it is probably sad to you guys it's it's to me it's just you know how there's this chart with
isaac newton and the silver trade i think it was isaac newton i can't remember was it isaac
newton i don't even know buying the top i don't know there's like a big chart uh guy anyone who's
listening and knows what i'm talking
about if you can leave a comment on who it was i think it was i said let me see uh uh
silver trade was it yeah it was cool um so it was like isaac newton bought a bunch of silver and then the price started going
up and he exited
super happy and then all of his
friends bought and started
getting crazily rich
and then like
people started
copy trading them and he re-enters
with all of his money
and that was like the top end. Everything
started collapsing and then he died
broke and i don't know like man learned gravity twice don't get me wrong i love the i love the
treasury meta right because they're buying my bags they're pumping my bags i'm making money
thank you yeah um but it's like every single time i see those news like we bought another like you know two billion dollars worth
of bitcoin i'm like okay cool thank you what the now yeah yeah well okay here's my optimistic way
that this all plays out right because uh all these like legacy finance large entities when they're buying crypto treasuries the most positive thing that could
happen with this is that the denominator just goes to zero that much more quickly and like
even if you print like stable coins you can't really catch up to the valuation of like treasury companies holding.
And they only need to post like growth or gains against like dollars, which is stupid easy if they're chasing silly yield and saying they're not going to sell.
So like there's a potential for things to crash, but not badly enough to cause a lot of unwinding.
And the denominator has lost so much purchasing power. We're kind of seeing it already with like
home prices in certain parts of the world, like being ridiculous, like going from an average home price 20 years ago, being a couple hundred thousand to
like 1.5 million in my area, you know, like that, that isn't normal or natural. That is
specifically inflation because a home's purposes or valuation didn't change a whole lot
between that time and now.
And we're seeing the denominator go to zero real time,
perpetual, like these companies,
these treasury companies are just accelerating it
and making it all systemic.
And if all of this stuff,
if this entire sector becomes too big to fail,
it is kind of, and we're being optimistic here the transition from like
government treasury as t-bills to crypto asset treasury because at least this
has fixed ish supply i'm taking i'm talking all crypto as a whole including bitcoin
um and can't be inflated away to zero unless we create like new stuff.
So that's the optimistic thing is that this is just the death of fiat economies and the rise of like crypto economy and probably like, you know, make unlimited stable coins.
It's totally fine.
Everybody wants to be aspirationally a billionaire and they can be, you know, you'll be a um because your your ubi will be like a million dollars a month or whatever like yeah yeah see what you
mean but and like i definitely see what you mean and yeah eventually we will see you know the death
of certain currencies over time including the dollar probably um it's just that
i feel like it's such a slow process that we will probably see all these greedy um treasury
companies die first hey anybody that over leveraged over leveraged and they can't whether the
the the cyclical downturns um then they deserve to die they deserve to be purged that's the same
thing with traders that's the same thing with treasury companies like you up you gotta you gotta pay the
price um unless you get bailed out by being too big to fail by certain government or whatever but
yeah just uh just a part of the game yeah you know it's kind of interesting to me i i was thinking
about it a couple of days ago how it's interesting that as far as I know, at least there hasn't been an on chain kind of like treasury type of, you know, Ponzi where, you know, there's, there's a, some company or entity issuing tokens kind of like an AMM, but, but only it's not really automated and you know when people send them stable coins they
have their own mechanism that sends tokens back and then takes those stable coins to buy assets
for the treasury i think it's very doable um and i think it can be a fantastic ponzi yeah
maybe i'm describing something that's already that already exists. I feel like you might
be. I have like one thing in mind that
cuts out the stable coins.
It's
like a Solana token called
SatFi and what
the creator did, it's pretty genius. He just
paired the token with
wrapped Bitcoin that was on Solana because there's
not very much.
And so with volume, it just sucks more wrapped Bitcoin into the pool. And eventually the pool
will get large enough that there will be a supply glut of wrapped Bitcoin on Solana,
which will encourage people to wrap more Bitcoin on Solana, making less of it available and his targeted flywheel is to just have this
liquidity pool for this token stuck up more and more bitcoin because it's burned right like it's
like locked on chain it's wrapped then it's locked in a solana liquidity pool um and have it like be
a natural ponzi scheme for issuing this token so it's it's it actually exists. And moreover, it cuts out the stable coin aspect of it,
though, you could very easily have that as well.
That's such a positive.
But it's, it's a funny one, right? God,
just God bless this. God bless this.
Yeah, it's always funny to me where people are like, I, because
you know, I do, you know, see this future of like currency death and, you know, harder assets staying.
But I think it's really far away.
I think it's way further away than people think it is.
Maybe I'm wrong.
But it's always funny to me that when I make a tweet about it, you know, discussing it in any certain way, there's like people in my replies like, dude, you're so dumb.
The dollar is
like gonna be dead in a few years and i'm like yeah timmy you're fucking trading btc used dt perps
holding fucking stable coins as fucking you know margin like shut the fuck up dude
it's totally true but i think like when you whenever you make a post like that that's like
you know a little bit of like long long-term pontificating you get like people who are
short-term thinking because they're exposed to a trade one way or the other looking at your like
they just take it as doom posting and they're right to because it as it applies to their
particular fucking trade it is doom posting.
They don't want to hear it.
But it's hard to think of other time frames
beyond the one that you are exposed to in a trade, I guess.
Yeah.
It's something that's hard to remember.
Because sometimes you'll tweet something like,
oh, dude, we're trading at 115K.
I think if we take this liquidity at 112 this will be a fantastic long and people are like you fucking bear tart eat shit you
you sideline piece of shit and i'm like dude i just said i want to long it at 112 what the fuck
oh my god that's so funny but imagine like being angry
at someone saying that bitcoin's gonna drop to 112k like it's it's like a tweet of i think udi
tweeted the this morning i think i've seen a picture on his profile where he's like he posted
like the monthly chart of btc on on or something, which goes all the way back to like 2016.
And he's like, look at this chart.
Right now, people are trading this chart
and they're just panicking over this huge dump
that happened in the last three days.
And I'm like, yeah, dude, that's kind of crazy.
Yeah, it's pretty funny.
You know, that's the power of leverage, man.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, the beauty of leverage. wanted to uh switch back the topic a little bit
to the 2022 era of the mfts i remember that back then you drilled a hole into a black lotus card
uh i think it was like uh 4.5 right yeah um a card worth over half a million dollars and i wanted to
ask like what was this i don't really
remember the story behind it and i want you to like can you tell us a little bit yeah yeah okay
uh so first point of clarification um the actual card that i drilled was only worth about 20 25
grand at the time um but i've been talking with uh with the partner on the project who we just had a shared
love of crypto and Magic the Gathering. And we thought, okay, how are we going to, how could we
tokenize a Black Lotus? And we were like, well, it would be really lame to just issue tokenized
shares of an asset. And then we'd all just be fighting amongst each other in this DAO deciding where to store it who gets to look at it one what
do you sign it out like a library how do we insure it who pays for it like there
would be a headache and a chore so we're like okay what if we destroyed it and uh conducted a ceremony to ascribe meaning uh to a narrative where
we imbue its soul into digital nfts and then we um we sell those and people are or can like
buy in and be a part of the story and one thing that we wanted to do with that was make,
through the attention and interest in the story,
is raise enough funds for the NFT mint
that this Black Lotus that was destroyed,
like with a drill bit through it,
became temporarily the most valuable one in the world.
And it was, though it won't be popularly recognized. We raised
about, I want to say $520,000 worth of Ethereum at the time. And the previous top tick sale
had been a few months before for, I think, $480,000 or something got, we got a technical world record that won't ever be recognized.
And the reason it won't ever be recognized is because,
the company kind of thing.
Yeah.
the cut will also the company that,
currently has the IP rights to magic.
The gathering got wind of it,
uh, just by bad luck on our part.
Someone else had called MTGDAO had created a white paper describing a protocol whereby you could issue
cards on chain without their authorization and they cease and desist at that guy.
So their lawyers were fresh off the case and then they saw what I was doing and they cease and desist at that guy. So their lawyers were fresh off the case,
and then they saw what I was doing,
and they were like,
all right, get on this guy now.
I guess this is going to be a copycat thing.
So just bad luck on our part.
We had cease and desist sent to us via Twitter DM
because I didn't have any other way to be contacted,
and they basically didn't have... gathering contact with you in DMs.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're, their legal teams were, uh,
were in my DMs. It was, it was pretty silly.
So I retained like a pretty good IP counsel who, um, I fucking love.
Like, uh, um, we're really lucky in the crypto spaces and aside to have access
to like really,
really awesome legal minds where most lawyers I would say are,
they live up to the stereotype. In crypto, there's,
there's kind of an exception to the rule where they're all really awesome.
So I got great legal counsel and I had a,
I would have had like a winning case in court,
but I would have had the docs to the court case or like appoint a representative.
And it would have cost me like half a million to a million to actually bring the case.
And though that would have been cool for the story, I just didn't want to go through that.
So I refunded everybody the ETH that they contributed.
And we just pivoted to make the product a different kind of flower that
they couldn't assert IP rights over. And of course there was much less interest in an underdog
fighting story. Well, in that versus the underdog fighting story. So I just destroyed my favorite
card for nothing. And we released some NFTs that basically paid back the artist that did the artwork for them but then something kind of cool happened um someone found the testnet contract for the nfts that we were originally
going to lease and found all the artwork on ipfs or are we i think we put it on and then they just
like gorilla deployed the whole thing and airdropped everyone so uh that was pretty dope the original art still ended
up seeing the light of day and got given away to everyone for free yeah and because it wasn't you
you don't care about it can't get sued or something i mean they can probably do some tracing to figure
out who did it but i mean good luck yeah that's sick man yeah i had, back in 2018, 2019, I had a very long period where I was playing Magic the Gathering.
I had my, the company I had, I was just, I parked really far away one day.
For some reason, there was no parking.
And I was just walking at the end of the day to my car.
And then I see, like, the small store that has a bunch of people sitting around tables and just like playing cards and i
was like what the is that and i just looked and i saw it's magic and then some dude was smoking
outside and he was like yo you play magic i'm like no what's that and that's like how this like
nine month journey started man i just ended up going there like two or three times a week every evening. Man, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
It was pretty cool to see in 2020 the boom with the trading cards themselves.
Because I was like, oh, I know these things.
That's so awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it was Pokemon and everything.
I was into magic when I was a kid, kind of right in the early days.
And then I was poor for a long time
so i didn't play and then um realized like i gotta get away from screens and get back in front of
like homies and um and actually get real life friends again and do uh so that that brought me
back to the game but um the really cool thing is there's a there's so much overlap and i can't
really describe it um between cryptocurrency and magic the gathering like
pretty sure like early bitcoiners most of them played or collected or traded
uh and mount gox was mt ox like it's it's well known that that was that domain was registered
to be an online card exchange um and then pivoted to something else and like all the um you know
sbf love to play limited magic the gathering where you crack open a bunch of packs and make
decks and play together and i was like trying to like sort something out where me and him would
play limited uh at some at some place somewhere. But they would do it
in the rare instances where they weren't
lying on a beanbag chair, using customer
funds to make investments. They would play Magic.
That's sick, dude.
Well, Magic connects us all.
I have two more questions left to you.
So just a reminder, before we
get to them and start ending things
up, to any of our listeners, if you have any questions, you can click at the bottom right corner of the chat box icon and ask away.
Well, I wanted to ask, what advice would you give your younger self or someone listening to this right now who is just entering the trading world or just the crypto world overall?
Okay.
There's a pretty easy formula for doing it right now. The first step is
don't be full-time, have another main income stream, and in your spare time,
do crypto, whatever that is. This will do two things.
This will insulate you from risk and psychology overly affecting your trading
in the crypto space.
It will allow you to think more objectively about the risks that you're taking
or the FOMO that you feel.
And it will insulate you from financial ruin that would negatively affect your life.
And so crypto will only be a positive booster to that.
And the second one is right sizing of your bets.
So let's say you have $1,000 to play with in your spare time. And you want to start playing around with crypto,
no play should ever be more than one R, where R is your full stack divided by 10. So you have 10,
you can be in 10 trades at the same time, you probably shouldn't be. But you know, if you're
really, really sure about something, and you can pill yourself on the
fundamentals and the reason why the trade is low risk and better return then maybe you can go 2R
if you're really not sure about something or you think it's stupid or it's just like a friend's
thing that you want to buy you go like 0.5 or 0.1 R but as a rule one tenth of your stack should be
the maximum that you bet on anything unless you've objectively presented yourself with like a trade strategy like well
documented kicked around with other people a reason why you should invest
more than one are in something and you have a timeline and specific plan to
recoup the capital if it doesn't go your way like establish a minimum amount of discipline and research before you enter a trade with 1R.
If you enter a trade with 2R, that amount has to quadruple.
Like, it has to be exponential.
Because if you're going with less than 1R, you're probably doing no research at all.
You're just aping something blindly.
The exponentiality of effort has to work in the opposite direction in order to protect your capital.
And you'll take losses, but if you have 10R available, you probably won't draw down to zero ever.
If you do, it's not the end of the world.
Maybe you had bad luck or maybe you have to identify some holes or weaknesses in your own methodology.
But I have not failed with like a 10R thing.
I've come close to doing pretty badly a bunch of times,
but usually it's good.
And when you have, let's say you have that $1,000 and you make $2,000,
pull that extra $1,000 away. Lock it in cold storage, ideally by Bitcoin with it and let it sit
on a cold wallet. And then do it again, prove to yourself that you can make that 1000 into 2000
again, figure out how many trades it took, figure out how long it took versus the last time, and
then compare your own performances data points
and then once you've done it like three or four times and you realize that you have your own personal roadmap of methodology that you follow then you can think about doubling your r to a
stack of 2 000 and so a lot of people don't take this methodological approach to trading at all or
putting funds at risk at all. And a lot of people won't take the advice because it is extra work
and they see other people bullposting and P&L LARPing and they'll think, oh, those people didn't
do it. Why should I? But the stories you don't hear as much are the blowouts and those are much more common. So methodology is king and not over-risking is king. The space still has instances where you can get ridiculous upside in like a fiz it's the next mog or the next fart coin or the next whatever.
And be having fun.
That's the ideal way to be making money is to be having fun shitposting about making money while you're also making money.
It's the dream in crypto right now.
So if you have good discipline, you'll have almost infinite bites at the apple.
So when you do get a good mouthful, then you're eating well.
Yeah, amen for that.
This is super solid advice.
I know that Kane right now is saying preach over there.
He's a brilliant trader.
He's awesome.
Yeah.
I think everything you said i agree with like this is really really solid advice i think the issue is with most people
is that they just i don't know if it's from from ct or the way ct presents trading to be or from
movies or some shit like that people think trading is like something super exciting and like you know
every single moment you're in a trade and you have like seven screens and like you have a margin call
every five minutes and you're moving money around you know like trading is especially like in our
i think it really depends on what really you're doing but for the most part i feel like trading
and in generally being in crypto is way
more relaxed and like chill and just all about maintaining discipline just being curious more
than anything you know especially if you're here for the long term like for the long term of things
oh yeah i i like that way of describing it because as you were talking i was thinking like
a good way to assess your relationship
with crypto would be to film yourself sitting down at wherever you do it and uh don't include
your screens don't include anything else just have yourself being filmed for like a six hour session
or a 14 hour session however many however long you like sit down and work for and you'll get a really good idea of like sitting back and
like watching it on like 4x speed or something like what am I actually doing I'm sitting there
I fell asleep for this little bit oh geez I pick my nose a lot um I look really stressed out here
for like seven hours of the day that can't. Like, am I doing this right type of thing?
Like, there's a lot of self-assessment that you have to do.
I look to people like Nomad for this because he's one of like the quiet greats that still blesses us with his presence online and stuff.
Did he get his account back?
I believe he did.
I didn't know that he ever lost it.
No, his account got banned like a few days ago.
Oh, no way.
Oh, wow.
I didn't even notice.
I don't have any other way to contact him, actually.
So I hope that's not permanent.
He's still active on the whale alerts account.
Right, right, right.
I didn't even know.
Shit.
But anyway,
he has,
so this,
this type of,
of happening wouldn't even phase him.
He might even lean into it and not bring that account back.
If I,
if my read on him is correct.
But he has the correct way to think about it because he's got,
I think,
not knowing anything about him personally, that he has more than two decades of, um,
strict methodology in practice. And so he doesn't, um, his,
his, there is no need to be upset byline is probably like,
like his own mantra where he wanted to become known for that because that is
also something that he probably repeats to himself every time he's working or
thinking about anything risk on in his life he's kind of defraying and dampening the stress aspect of it, being holistic about it,
and just taking losses with ease and grace and taking wins with ease and grace and building,
you know, a personal history and track record of doing that. So he's kind of a super exemplary individual in that way,
where he is exactly how you should approach something.
Like, I bet if you were to be a drone following him around for 24 hours in a day,
you wouldn't see him doing more than 15 or 30 minutes of what looked like straight up trading work.
And the rest would be like planning, messing around on Twitter,
hitting the gym,
basically relaxing,
doing stuff with his family that we don't know about.
That type of thing.
That's what you should be striving for.
I tell people,
I remember I was talking to
I was talking to Runner a while back.
This was a year ago.
And he was, we were just like talking in DMs and he was like, what's the number that will make you just like delete your Twitter and never come back here?
I was like, never, dude.
Like, I can have a billion dollars.
I'm still going to be here shitposting because the money is not going to change my life.
I know that for certain like my life will
be exactly like i have i have enough money right now in my life where no matter how much more i'll
have my life will stay the same right um maybe i'll get like a better car more often but that's
like you know the only thing that'll change yeah but you know i was like dude i love i love shit posting so much i
love just having fun all day and being able to call it work are you kidding me yeah you know
you're like shit posting with friends and that's the way you find out about like new shit going on
in crypto and on chain and stuff like that it's the craziest thing ever. And I was talking to a friend a while back
and he called me and I called him back
like two hours later.
And I was like, oh, dude, I'm sorry.
I was working.
And he follows me on Twitter and he was like,
shut the fuck up, dude.
You're just posting shit on Twitter.
And I was like, no, dude, that's, I'm working.
Sorry it doesn't look like it works to you,
but actually. Yeah, man. No, that's, I'm working. Sorry it doesn't look like it worked to you, but actually.
Yeah, man.
No, that's awesome.
You know what?
I think people would realize that kind of early on that it was fun,
but it took like the Milady tagline to really put it into practice of saying,
like, we logged on and won forever.
Like, it really is like.'s it's really just um your
job is being online really that's one of i think that's a really good way of putting it i'm online
right now i'm an active node in the network and the network is stuff on chain and shit posts
flying around and your uh nebulous uh network of people who's like PFP, you know, and handle, you know,
but you'll never see them or meet them in real life 99 times out of a hundred.
And that's, that's the way it needs to be.
Like, you know, you can, you kind of have like a subconscious idea of what the network
looks like and your place in it as a node and the connections to it
and um you just you just are in there vibing and pinging and receiving like a brain cell or
something yeah dude it's like just in this space there's kane uh vintage born and migmist like
three people that are shitposts with every single A. And like I can honestly say that they're like,
I know them better than I know so many people around me in my real life.
Because we've been shitposting with each other for like,
well with Kane we've been talking for like four years now.
It's fucking crazy.
That's awesome.
So yeah.
Well I have one last question left for you. This is something we ask all of our guests and it's going to be interesting to hear
what, uh, what your take on it is. Uh, what do you believe making it is and do you feel like
you've made it? Uh, yeah. Um, it's funny cause I'm in this position where like I've made it and sort of semi lost it.
So, but I'm also still in it for the love of the game.
I think if I had not experienced such a massive drawdown after 2017, 18, that I would still be in it.
Maybe a little bit less, but I still do love the grind of being on the frontier.
So I did definitely make it, and then I did definitely squander a lot of it, but it was
an important lesson.
important lesson. And I'm still not uncomfortable now, so things are fine. But making it is
And I'm still not uncomfortable now, so things are fine.
challenging to define because it's roughly different for everybody. And the target is
often based in a comparative dollar amount, which we in crypto are betting goes to zero.
we in crypto, our betting goes to zero.
And so that's a really difficult thing to reconcile with all the other people
who have like a certain number of millions or annual salary in their mind
when they talk or meme or like assess potential dates or mates or whatever.
So that type of thing is individual.
But I would say that if you have peace of mind for most of your day,
you know where your next meals are coming from,
and you spend a greater part of your time doing what you want
versus doing what you have to do
for money, I would call that more likely to be on the side of having made it than not having made it
because some duty and obligation in your life is important too. But that's easy to manufacture,
even if you don't need to do a job for money um you can you can volunteer you can raise kids you can take care of like elderly parents there's
lots there's a lot you're basically working not for the money you're working for the just for the
exactly exactly you need you need to be needed your effort needs to be needed
or you're you're um in the real life node you're uh you're a non-functioning disconnected node.
And it's easy for the young adults of the world to lose sight of that because there is so much distraction and uncertainty and odds stacked against you.
It sucks.
It sucks.
Crypto is one of the only places I can think of that has still has a democratization of access
to uh to potential and realizing it yeah 100 i was thinking about it uh recently about like
how like this is one of the thoughts like two two or three years ago that's like kind of stressed
me out and made me build my real life portfolio a little bit stronger yeah i was
like thinking like it was a meme that was going around on twitter but it kind of made me think
and felt real where people are like we are all unemployed you know it was like a meme like that
yeah and i started thinking about it i was like dude i'm like i i'm totally useless i like i'm
so i haven't like i i was in marketing before i got into like crypto full-time
oh wow like now the marketing world has changed drastically since 2020 and i was like dude i'm
so even at my previous job i'm like useless right now oh wow yeah it's it's it do be like that it do be like that like i i tell most people that i'm unemployed
it just said like i i still say that i'm in marketing that's a good excuse for working
from home and not leaving the house much yeah that's a great one like you can say oh i work
i work from i work from home i say like i'm i'm unemployed um i had a construction business but i sold it
um and then they think like okay he's like doing whatever but uh you know they they don't i don't
know if you say you're unemployed people don't want to press you on that and uh that's opsec man
that's uh it's just a good look you can ask them about what they do oh that sounds awesome man i'm so so bored compared to that that sounds amazing yeah when you say you aren't employed it's a really good
thing for like yeah just leave me alone don't ask like why or whatever yeah yeah yeah like you know
sound a little bit ashamed about it too like like lean into the bit um they will they will not press
you further she's not going to be like, tell me more. Oh, my God.
Yeah, I remember we were like one of my friends, like one of my best friends in real life.
I met his friend that came over from abroad to sleep at their place and everything.
And I just came by to grab a beer and we're just sitting.
And then this friend of theirs of
his wife's came and louisius was like oh like yeah i spoke to them and they told me you're like in
crypto and you're like you have a twitter account that's so cool i'm like dude don't don't ever like
tell that please let that never be a criterion that uh single women try to select for or the world is truly fucked
you know it doesn't even bother me much the the the crypto thing but like the twitter
you know they always say i've been told you're on twitter i'm like
i'll never tell that to anyone i've been told you're on twitter
yeah i can't imagine a real girl saying that ever man
it's so funny i'm like thank god the girl i'm dating is not following on twitter
it's like it's gonna end so quick oh my god yeah yeah that's uh fortunately like um
instagram is much more girly and they have that yeah yeah dude but i love instagram as well i'm
i'm an addict for for reels when i'm smoking oh damn yeah yeah yeah yeah i can see that for sure
i can see that for sure oh it's so addictive it's it's amazing what's happened to like um
efficiency of dopamine receptor triggering with social media. It's fucking insane. Like, even... Dude, this generation
is fucked. Like, I was
talking to my... I was
talking to... Like, all my friends around me have kids,
right? Yeah. And...
Do you have kids?
What's that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There are children close to me
in my life. We'll put it that way.
I was talking to my friend, and I was like,
dude, the kids around us right now, like, the kids that are growing around here your kids whatever they have
no idea that back in the day your parents could be like shut the fuck up and sit down and then
you're just staring the wall for like two hours like that and that's it like they they don't know about this thing of like doing nothing
yeah yeah they're not they're not capable it's weird to see like you can spot a kid from a mile
away that is like that has been bored before and knows what to do with boredom versus a kid who
just like can't handle it because they've been stimulated
constantly during every waking moment and it is really weird to see um those kids that have
that that require external simulation all the time provided by something else whether it's a
screen or someone else like um i i don't know what their chances are they're going to be like
they're going to i hope they I hope they can unlearn that.
I hope it's possible to unlearn.
Said the two gamblers that need to punt a thousand bucks
on some shit going to feel something.
Yeah.
I see what you mean.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, that's pretty much from me, man.
This was really awesome. And I really appreciate you coming on.. All right. Well, that's pretty much from me, man. This was really awesome.
And I really appreciate you coming on.
This was really, really fun.
Yeah.
Thank you to me, too.
It's great to get the chance to just have a conversation with you.
You're always someone that I've respected and looked up to.
And your opinions are very often ones I share.
So please just keep it up.
Don't go anywhere.
That's awesome, man. I really appreciate it.
We have a question from
Kane in the chat saying,
will he greet us as liberators?
I don't know.
It's not up to me.
I'm going to be away from the front lines
when the
liberation happens i'm gonna be i'm gonna be touching grass beautiful um is there anything
else you want to add not so fast before we wrap things up uh i guess i just gotta show my own
token nsfa is gonna flip yeezy how's's Yeezy doing?
Let's see.
Oh, yeah.
Let's take a look.
Down that.
No, it's still in 1 billion.
That seems fine.
Another extraction event.
Yeah.
It's kind of crazy that it was launched yesterday
and traded for like two whole days at 200 million, right?
I guess they said that like um oh yeah the liquidity pool was
empty right yeah they they decided or some shit they made it empty they made 25 decoys because
that's how you have to do it to try and dodge the bundlers um but the bundlers are very often
other quote-unquote insiders that you're trying to farm alongside and they're trying to like bundle
you there's no love in that part of the game it's not uh it's it's chaotic evil i'm not into it
yeah i don't know and apparently like uh the whole libra team is a part of this and
dude this just i don't know it's bad i hate it it's bad i hate it too well yeah well that's uh that's pretty much it from us before we start
ranting about all this yeah uh thank you so much again for coming man this was such a pleasure i
wanted to do this for a super long time and yeah the same that you said about me goes back to you
i appreciate you being on the timeline so much it's super awesome to you know have ogs with like
solid opinions uh still active and sharing stuff
with us every single day um so yeah so thank you for that man and to all of our listeners thank you
for coming guys i hope you enjoyed this if you join in the middle and you missed anything out
this uh space is recorded so you'll see you'll be able to listen back to it at the moment it ends
and for all the lazy homies that don't have any time on monday around views open i'll be posting notes on my profile thanks to our intern who's
taking notes throughout this whole space uh shout out to emmanuel um and yeah that's uh pretty much
it guys i just want to mention again that we will have updates on the kuma account and on my account
for the future episodes.
And again, huge thank you to Kuma for hosting these spaces.
If you haven't tried them out, you can try them with the link in my bio.
You can click on it and register for 40% off of fees.
All the rebates go back to you guys.
Nothing.
I don't keep anything.
It all goes back to you.
We're currently giving out, like I said earlier, $7,500 every single week in trading rewards. And all you have to do is trade based on trading volume. On top of that, we have a weekly raffle of $1,200 in rewards. And all you have to do is, again, trade. The more trading volume you
make, the more raffle tickets you have. And we're currently, we're soon going to have upcoming new
listings. We will have improved liquidity. We posted our roadmap recently.
So if you want to check out the roadmap, you can check it out on the Kuma profile.
And the biggest news is that we have vaults coming out really, really soon.
If you want to check out any other information, any breakdowns of what's coming up, you can see it in our blog.
any breakdowns of what's coming up you can see it in our blog and if you want to have anything
specific listed because currently we are taking into accounts you know what we'll be listing and
stuff like that you can click on the kuma profile join the discord and throw your suggestions there
um yeah huge shout out to kuma and shout out to not NotSoFast, guys. Again, thank you so, so much for coming. NotSoFast, thank you as well.
Thanks, brother.
Give him a follow.
And yeah, shout out to everyone listening.
And we'll see you guys next week.
Thanks, everyone.
Bye.
See ya.
